Mini 1947: Board Game uPick: The Expansion! Game Over

[Drixx]

@mod: V/LA 72 hours please. Definitely have a very bad UTI, possibly bad enough to have spread to the kidney. 2 doses of antibioitics in atm, and some of the worst symptoms are clearing up, but still feverish and literally spent all day in bed. If I'm not good in 72 hours, it will mean hospitalization and I'll replace out. Apologies.

acknowledged

[Drixx]

So the mods have come to the decision to advertise for a replacement for Drixx. He hasn't posted since his 72 hour request for V/LA anywhere on site and has been replaced out of atleast one other game he is in. We certainly hope everything is ok with him and that he is safe and healthy. In the interest of the game however, we will pause the deadline until a replacement is found.

I ended up going to the hospital rather suddenly on Thursday evening. No time to post or give any heads' up anywhere. I was admitted and treated and discharged this evening (an impressive improvement, considering I was septic by the time they got cultures and realized they weren't treating what was making me sick). I'll be regaining my strength for awhile, but if you'll allow me to remain, I should be able to catch up on a thousand posts without much difficulty.

[Drixx]

I'm not going to engage the game until the mods decide to let me play.

I am; however, really confused at the assertion that I was force replaced out of another game though.

I was only in two games when I went to Hospital and while it's true my time in the other game came to an end, it was not via force replacement. (Being careful here because it's an ongoing game).

[Drixx]

You cannot possibly expect me to answer that.

[Drixx]

Yeah so umm ... I have no intention of claiming anything else.

BUT

I will give a *golf clap* to MKA for using the V/LA guy to try and gambit with. It was a pretty decent play. I am explicitly denying being a mason. I will go a step further and claim that I have access to only this thread for this game and no PTs.

I think that about covers it yeah?

[Drixx]

This is true. I get the feeling based on timings and such that one of Adan and drixx is the scum partner. I just currently favor Adan over drixx.

Or it could be that I got out of the hospital and wanted to read the game and decide whether I thought RC deserved my support in a gambit? RC gambits all the damned time. It was only after reading that I decided not to extend some rope on the gambit. It seems plausible to me that the slot is town, but not probable enough for me to basically blind vouch it.

It's pretty obvious that I was chosen because I was on V/LA and then nearly replaced. A secondary reason might be my familiarity with RC's crazy town play. I very nearly played along just to see where it would go, but I'm not sure a mini is the place to gamble that much.

I'm holding out for a possible dayvig to confirm my role, preferably by shooting morph instead of me however. I have extended deadline to help facilitate this.

Your role cannot possibly be verified unless this game is bastard. I didn't believe you would actually put me on the spot to just blindly trust you so I went and re-read my role PM just in case I had somehow missed

being a fucking mason

. I'm not. Ergo you cannot be one with me. Ergo you cannot flip what you have claimed.

Your posts since I went ahead and confirmed that I am NOT a mason aren't exactly encouraging if we want to posit you as town running a gambit of some kind.

[Drixx]

This is true. I get the feeling based on timings and such that one of Adan and drixx is the scum partner. I just currently favor Adan over drixx.

Or it could be that I got out of the hospital and wanted to read the game and decide whether I thought RC deserved my support in a gambit? RC gambits all the damned time. It was only after reading that I decided not to extend some rope on the gambit. It seems plausible to me that the slot is town, but not probable enough for me to basically blind vouch it.

It's pretty obvious that I was chosen because I was on V/LA and then nearly replaced. A secondary reason might be my familiarity with RC's crazy town play. I very nearly played along just to see where it would go, but I'm not sure a mini is the place to gamble that much.

I'm holding out for a possible dayvig to confirm my role, preferably by shooting morph instead of me however. I have extended deadline to help facilitate this.

Your role cannot possibly be verified unless this game is bastard. I didn't believe you would actually put me on the spot to just blindly trust you so I went and re-read my role PM just in case I had somehow missed

being a fucking mason

. I'm not. Ergo you cannot be one with me. Ergo you cannot flip what you have claimed.

Your posts since I went ahead and confirmed that I am NOT a mason aren't exactly encouraging if we want to posit you as town running a gambit of some kind.

Maybe you should re-read a bit more fore context. Helluva "gambit" to pull AS A DIRECT RESPONSE TO A DAYCOP GUILTY

The only proper response to a "daycop" guilty is laughter. Like firstly cops as a thing are boring and bad for the game and nearly all quality mods avoid using them. Mechanics playing the game instead of players playing the game is a bad thing. Secondly, a "daycop" in a mini is maybe the worst and laziest possible design I can remember someone suggesting, let alone using. Worst case it creates a conftown on day one and forces scum night actions into a particular path for the first two nights (that's pretty absurd as a worst case for a lazy role). Best case it mechanically catches a scum before the game has even really begun.

So yeah ... responding to a supposed daycop guilty by claiming mason (when not a mason) is a gambit.

I don't even know what to think of of you right now.

[Drixx]

It's not a daycop, it's a modified daycop that's actually closer to a desperado. Did you read the post where they claimed?

Yes I read the entire thread. What I saw was the morph hydra trying to push RC and then all of a sudden out of nowhere they start asking who are the best players.

THEN they claim that they have a must use day one ability which will either result in them being dead or finds scum or else they will make another player vanilla.

If I assume they're telling the truth, then the first question that springs to mind is why can't I find ANY subtle attempts to probe and decide what to do with it before the suddenly out of nowhere request for people to advise them.

[Drixx]

It's not a daycop, it's a modified daycop that's actually closer to a desperado. Did you read the post where they claimed?

Your answering for/defense of that slot is noted.

[Drixx]

Could we maybe take a couple votes off? I'm assuming we have some kind of reason to vote him, and I'm fine with that, but it would be foolish to allow our time to be cut short. Be careful and not stupid with votes please.

Why did nobody visit me last night? I was so hoping for (non lethal) company during the night.

[Drixx]

I think it's more likely scum actions were interfered with than not; but just to be safe let me check night deadline/timing against site-wide activity.

I like to win as much as the next guy, but this kind of play you are talking about here (checking someone's last login to see if they might be scum who missed deadline, or really just checking someone's site activity in order to try and discern their alignment in a game at all) is just not good. It's not rhetorical at all. It's mechanical and relies upon a flaw of the fact that we're playing on a forum allowing our activity to be tracked. About the only time this is acceptable is to check if someone is intentionally ducking a specific game but otherwise active (in that case you are determining that they are being intentionally inactive in the game, and then you have to reason from there to decide WHY they are doing so). Can we agree to leave this edge shit out of the game?

I'm hesitant to assume this is as easy as it currently looks. I'm still recovering and a lot of my time has been eaten up with the initial visits from home health and PT and OT, and tomorrow I've got my post hospital stay follow up, but after that I should have my usual time and I do have some notes of things I'd like to follow up on now that I get to play.

I do hope people will read my short ISO before the day ends.

[Drixx]

I do hope people will read my short ISO before the day ends.

I've done so. Is there something other than a town read I was suppose to gain from it? I already had a town read on you

If you didn't see it, then don't worry about it.

I mean, I get reminded of how bad 1124 is all over again.

I have

always

viewed someone interjecting themselves into a question aimed at another player as suspicious. There's no upside to jumping in when you could let the intended player answer and THEN express your own thoughts. We lose the wording and response of the player being asked.

10. Drixx

Hi Drixx, nice to meet you. I'm sorry you were/are having health problems, and I hope you recover soon. I feel I should say I think you were too harsh with Morph recently. Had you played much with MKA before this game? I'm having trouble finishing off my sorting of you.

I've played with RadiantCowbells quite a lot (and respect his skill), who was one of the heads of MKA. He tends to gambit and outright lie quite a lot as town, which is why I took my time to decide how to respond to what he was doing.

I have roughly the same reads as Porkens. Yeah this game is hard to get into. Nothing has really pinged me. SS raised a valid point on that short Drixx post though. Maybe scum team hoped Drixx would be V/LA longer and were hoping to cruise it out. So light scum read on Drixx

What exactly about #1124 is bad? Be specific.

[Drixx]

IMO dont worry about drixx yet.

I didn't ask people to read my ISO for the reason you seem to think.

[Drixx]

For having 0 votes on me at the end of day one, I was given a 1-shot Roleblock ability. I used it on Chickadee. There was no nightkill.

A lot of us didn't have any votes at the end of day one.

VOTE: Porkens

For what should be exceptionally obvious reasons. If the claim results in a flipped scum, I will discontinue, but this will be a policy placement each day from me until then.

[Drixx]

I actually do care though, why would you do that? You refuse to even weigh in on the chickadee/Dan counterwagons at all and instead do this. I think I know what you are getting at but if actually suspected me, then at least make your case instead of just setting up false binaries.

There are two possibilities. The first is that the game setup includes some 1-shot power awarded to someone upon some condition. You specified the exact condition. That leads the obvious second possibility which is that your role gives you 1-shot abilities (by choice or in some order or whatever) under certain circumstances (one of which would be having no votes on you at the end of the day, per your explanation).

You got a roleblock. Roleblocking is

generally, IN MY EXPERIENCE

more frequently given to scum than town. That makes me wary. You also haven't pushed your result as hard as I would expect. It's the

ONLY

explanation put forward for the lack of night kill (other than speculation that scum decided not to kill). The fact that you haven't pushed so hard would likely result in you not being lynched should your "maybe guilty" flip town. It's exactly the play for scum to make (or fake) if their kill fails and nobody comes forward with any reason why.

I think that's a sufficient explanation of the risks you pose and why doing something to mitigate that risk seems prudent.

For having 0 votes on me at the end of day one, I was given a 1-shot Roleblock ability. I used it on Chickadee. There was no nightkill.

A lot of us didn't have any votes at the end of day one.

VOTE: Porkens

For what should be exceptionally obvious reasons. If the claim results in a flipped scum, I will discontinue, but this will be a policy placement each day from me until then.

You're assuming this is a mechanics thing and not a role thing. Why?

There's no implied assumption it's a mechanics thing and not a role thing. It is the lower probability possibility, by far. It's almost certainly a role thing, or else why would voting him do anything? If I believed it was a mechanics thing, then I would have to assume some unknown factor that decided Porkens got the reward for not having a vote, or perhaps there's a different mechanic hidden in play every day or ... {insert endless amounts of speculation since one claimed data point isn't enough to actually know}.

So no ... I'm not assuming it's a mechanics thing.

So here's the rub I've got with your post Morph. I believe town would have said "Why are you assuming it's a mechanics thing?" or "Are you assuming it's a mechanics thing?" -- Instead you chose to assign a belief to me which I did not express, and then pose a question which rests upon the premise that your statement of my belief is correct. A town you has no way to know from my earlier post what I am reasoning about the situation, nor should a town you have any motive to try and put words in my mouth and set up a narrative.

A scum you? A scum you really wants to put me in a specific box you control. If not for what you did yesterday, you would be a scum read now as I find manipulation of posts to try and misrepresent players to be something scum do much more frequently than town. You're still a paranoia/LYLO possibility because busing.

[Drixx]

Oh ... and the obvious move here is to lynch the person we have a reason to believe may have been blocked from killing. I mean ... that's so self evident I'm not sure why anyone expected me to comment on it.

[Drixx]

So why aren't you voting for that person?

Until I'm sure of you, I'm assuming you are telling the truth about getting the roleblock and why, and making a further assumption about the reason it happened, and voting in a way that seems prudent to me.

It's exactly the play for scum to make (or fake) if their kill fails and nobody comes forward with any reason why.

no

what if Chickadee had had an action?

So that moves a fake claim to a less probable position, but still leaves a real role block usage on the table. Like ... scum get roleblock way more often than town, and scum try to tell the truth as much as possible. He could easily have been watched or tracked and thus it seems the MOST likely possibility is that the roleblock claim is true. The question is whether that is why we had no death.

With nobody else stepping forward (and they should if they know why and could exonerate Chickadee and put that slot into probtown bordering on conftown status), the most likely possibilities (with all others being exceptionally less likely) are:

1.) Pork blocked the kill attempt and Chick is scum.
2.) Pork blocked Chick and but Pork is scum and claimed the roleblock to get Chick lynched with a possible side effect of outing an important role (although I would still argue making another player conftown is strong utility, and the ways someone might have stopped a kill are necessarily limited to things that very rarely stop MORE than one kill in a game this size, so them telling us forces scum to kill them AND chick, if that were the case).
2.) Some other effect or mechanic blocked the kill (or the scum didn't submit) and we have a false positive.

Edge cases set aside, I think that the first possibility I listed is almost certainly the actual reality we're playing in. But I tend to be pretty thorough in trying to think through possibilities, so feel free to engage with it. Did I make a mistake logically in there somewhere? Did I miss something important I should be accounting for? Like ... doesn't everyone make notes and try to see what they can figure out with known info? I have a dedicated white board for mafia games ;p

Now that was something smart!



I see what you are saying though Drix. I am fine with having any number of votes on me at days end from here on out.

I mean ... either you don't care because I've assigned the highest probability of what happened to the wrong possibility, or ... I'm confused. I would expect you to be irritated if what I'm doing is locking you from gaining powers. As far as I'm concerned you shouldn't elaborate until if/when we get to time to mass claim. Additionally, I think we should lynch Chick. A scum flip there basically puts you nearly conftown (edge case busing), and at that point I'd view anyone voting you to (presumably) stop you getting 1-shots as scum claiming.

But for now, please understand it's not personal. There is enough reason to question/doubt to treat you carefully for now.

[Drixx]

Yeah I should have put that parenthetical statement as a separate point to make it clear. I would have expected anyone with that kind of info to realize they should come forward by now though.

[Drixx]

meh. messed up the quote. I think it's reasonably clear. If not, I'll redo if asked.

I think it was really clear. It was just a messed up quote tag so everyone can see where my words end and your's start.

As for your observation that some of my post seems loaded. It was. I generally don't make a post without a purpose and expectations for response. I'm what you might call an "efficient" player. I used to write huge walls (literally thousands of words) often. That taught me to be efficient.

[Drixx]

You put that sentence in large and red and bold. Did you have a comment to make Porkens?

[Drixx]

I townread chickadee, we should be lynching actiondan today

I'm not excited by players like randommidget and gerryoat who tunnel on the roleblock without really addressing actiondan or doing much else, we should consider targeting in there if actiondan is scum.

I think it is unlikely that actiondan and chickadee are both scum

VOTE: Actiondan

Please explain your townread on Chickadee. Don't give me a wall of quotes. Just give me an explanation. Even if you don't do this before today ends, I want you to explain it, regardless of how she flips.

Should we go back to ActionDan?

No, Creature, we should lynch Morph.

Ummm ... you're going to have to explain this better than you did in the intervening posts. I don't at all understand why you are after morph.

[Drixx]

It's always amusing when people suggest I'm scum and provide exactly zero reasons.

@Morph - Can I have a post from each of you individually, signed, which puts your ego on the line in regards to that "read"? Thanks in advance.

[Drixx]

Pretty sure a scum poisoner that did not notify the target that they're poisoned would be too strong.

I've never seen a setup where the scum team killed via delayed means (poison or some theme specific device that functions the same) and the victim was informed before they died. The whole setup balance point of using a delayed kill mechanic is to nudge the balance a bit towards scum, as each death can't be talked about until the day after it happens instead of day of. It's a very small shift, but sometimes the margin between winning and losing is tiny.

Interested to see games where poisoned people were informed at day start, if you can point to them?

[Drixx]

Ahh ... a UPick. I would disregard that. Roles get crafted around the picks, and that could easily explain the poisoned knowing (as could the size of the game... can't afford to not talk about a scum kill until day 3). I've seen it a few times and it is normally not the case that the victim is notified. They simply die at the end of the day.

[Drixx]

Drixx, let's talk.

Why are you being lurky and useless? Why did you accost me about our read of you and then do nothing with my reply?

I don't actually recall, but I do recall coming back to the thread and seeing it was locked, so I kind of skimmed to see who did it. I know some people were bored but there could have been some utility by waiting a bit longer. I am, for reasons you will understand in a moment, quite disappointed that nobody decided to come hang out with me at night.


The expansion from my picks that was chosen was Pandemic: On the Brink.

The role that gave me is:

Town Self-Watching (temporary) Weakener, with a Limited Doctor Pool Expansion

.

What that means is that the first three players who targeted me over the course of the game would have become weak on the following night. They would have been informed of it but not why. I would be informed of who became weak (Self-Watcher). Once three

different

people had become weak from visiting me, I would become a limited pool doctor and lose the self-watching weakener. From then on I would have been able to target one of the people who had become weak and protect them from night kills.

Ergo me trying to get folks to visit me because then I would have a pool of people I knew didn't try to kill me, and combined with some effort on my part I could have leveraged that quite nicely, on top of having a pool of people where if someone is obviously town and obviously going to get killed, I could stop it.

But since we're talking mass claim, and since it seems remarkably unlikely that I'll ever meet the condition to be able to doc from a limited pool, there's no real reason for me to play coy.

So yeah ... as I said before: not scum and you're not gonna get me lynched.

[Drixx]

Well played. I would have loved to see this game go to LYLO just to see the setup play out completely. Thanks to our awesome mods.