Mini 1953: XP Mafia (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

VOTE:

[Dunnstral]

It is public knowledge that the Mafia's factional kill costs XP to carry out.

hmm

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: no lynch

Are you training tonight?

[Dunnstral]

Block: Gerryoat

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maki is town

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I refuse to believe you're stupid because I know you're not as I've seen you play before so the logical answer is you're scum just trying to play dumb.


Where's Dunn and NMS I need to talk to both of you

Hey what's up?

I'll engage more with this game but first what did you want to talk about

[Dunnstral]

Block: Noticemesenpai

Jae is way too overzealous

[Dunnstral]

I think they're jumping way too hard at gerry without there being enough content to have sorted them that hard

[Dunnstral]

Maki what is it you wanted to talk to me about earlier?

[Dunnstral]

@mod please prod NoticeMeSenpai, Vaxkiller, Ginngie, Assemblerotws, and yourself.

[Dunnstral]

@mod please prod NoticeMeSenpai, Vaxkiller, Ginngie, Assemblerotws, and yourself.

It hasn't been long enough for me to get prodded.

october 12th 5:31pm to october 14th 8:19pm is a longer period of time than 48 hours, which is the time outlined in the rules for a prod

Nice contentless post by the way

[Dunnstral]

You know.
I could make a case that I know is going to be ignored. Or I could quote every time I made good points against scum!gerry where town still didn't lynch him because towns lately are awful and you could all figure out how that relates to this game. I might do the latter at some stage tonight if I don't find gaming more fun than the depressing ISO dive of every scum!gerry game where I lay out everything that makes a scum gerry then town proceeds to not lynch him after I die.

@Dunnstral considering you've been on the receiving end of me finding you when you were scum and deathtunneling you... considering you've been scum with me before and know this absolutely is not how I approach the game as scum... considering you saw recently in smith's game where you used this exact same argument when I caught scum!gerry and your pushing of this idiocy made me tilt so hard I said things I sincerely regret and had to replace out before I got force replaced for toxicity, let me just say... No. I don't know if you're doing this

because

you know it was effective in smith's game at getting heat off gerry and you're trying to get me to have a repeat of that, or if you are actually just incapable of learning from your past mistakes. Either way, I'm flat out asking you to at least come up with an argument that hasn't been proven wrong by YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES in the past on what I would/wouldn't do. I spent days raging at mastina over this and questioning your integrity and I don't want to do that, it feels bad to have to do that over a game. You know better.

@Raya I have indeed seen gerry play a more active town game. Once. I correctly identified him as town there, too. Both his scum and town game are so different from each other that

yes, you can indeed meta him effectively

.

I don't know why you're trying to make this personal as if I attacked you but ok

[Dunnstral]

I went back and took a look at the mhsmith game (which took place around 6 months ago); I didn't scumread you and I made that clear multiple times. I wasn't attacking your read on gerry either, I was challenging you for saying a slot was confirmed town in your eyes that I scumread. You replacing out in that game seems like you were upset at gerry and not me. I don't know what you mean by questioning my integrity.

[Dunnstral]

Interesting word choice

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Hey maki can you do something towny this game? Or at least respond to me responding to you.

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That's a really weird reaction Maki

DO you want to not overreact?

[Dunnstral]

That's a really weird reaction Maki

DO you want to not overreact?

It's not an overreaction when you outright contradicted yourself why didn't I answer you sooner? I was lazy.

You know I'm not trying to call you out, I'm trying to hold a conversation with you?
Gerry vs NoticeMeSenpai, who would/will you block? You don't like this yurkin wagon right?

[Dunnstral]

Ok, I actually do tr you... I misspoke

Let's focus the vote between NMS and Gerry today, I don't like the Yurkin votes as I don't think that really helps us, come make this happen with me

Block: Gerry

[Dunnstral]

I don't even know why we're blocking yurkin, I'd rather not ignore this interaction between you and NMS

[Dunnstral]

oh, gerry, you so fake

eevee's shit is obvious, your "ty you for noticing this too" is just overkill fake ohgeebusszzz

btw dreal is always wrong as town lol

How do you know he's town?

[Dunnstral]

Did you ask me a question?

[Dunnstral]

I don't need to hear about your "major concerns for me", I asked you if you asked me a question because you said I didn't respond to you.

[Dunnstral]

Did you ask me a question?

why ignore me

I don't think replying to you is productive

[Dunnstral]

HURT: Gerry

Pretty sure I want this lynched

I can get on board with this

[Dunnstral]

Yes.

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surely rolecop is more useful than self watcher?

[Dunnstral]

either the scum kill costs 1 xp or scum got xp for doing something during the day

[Dunnstral]

Ginngie's target should claim

[Dunnstral]

if you not voting to block same player as D1, I want to know why

right now gerryoat has 0 xp, they lost their xp and they weren't able to train. The mafia kill does take xp to use. Blocking him today is pointless because all he can do today is train

[Dunnstral]

@mod How would the sample vanilla townie pm display to the rolecop ability?

[Dunnstral]

Setup information to note:

1. There was a kill night 1.
-Theoretically, this could be a vigilante (I think a vigilante would be more gated though, I think this kill was mafia.)
-Every player starts with 1 xp, meaning that the kill performed costs only 1 xp or that the killer was able to get more exp

during the day.

-Post 783 above tells us that mafia cannot use xp they get the same night to perform the kill. This was already a reasonable assumption but that post is confirmation.

2. Town cannot lynch for two days in a row.
-I was expecting the mafia kill to cost 2 xp and for there to be no kill today, it's especially odd because we also cannot lynch today.
-This is what is making me pause and think that th ekill could be a vigilante, if it's mafia though they get to nightkill twice in a row while town doesn't get to lynch.
-I wonder about the balance implications of this? 2 mafia doesn't sound right to me, perhaps town is loaded with poewr behind upgrades?

Role stuff for today:

Self-Watcher
-Notably, cannot gain information on who the killer is unless they are also protected.
-Sort of a high risk high reward thing, as it uses up xp, the opportunity cost of using this ability is actually 2 xp because you cannot train.
-Might provide useful information depending on how night actions and claims play out.
-Helps limit fake claiming targets, meaning fake claiming mafia may have to out weird night results.

Rolecop
-I'm not sure if this ability lets us see what their role does or just their role name, I think there is a difference here depending on which it does.
-Since this ability is available to everybody, I don't think mafia will have roles easily identifiable as mafia.
-The main use of this ability being in play allows us to confirm other players roles, preventing fake claims.

Neighborizor
-This ability is stronger when there is something to share, but in this case the neighborizor is both the only action you can take that night and it costs 1 xp to use.
-I don't think the synergy is good with this choice as the xp cost and time committment are pretty negative to whoever would need to use it.
-On the flip side, if other people targeted those with something to share it could work out but that is harder to pull off.
-I think this ability is weaker than just taking an investigative power for everyone.

[Dunnstral]

sounding to me like dunn+gerry have discussed some things over Night

Are you referring to my post above?

Well, let's take a look at it, the topics I talk about are:

There being a kill night 1
Town not being able to lynch day 2
Self-watcher
Rolecop
Neighborizor

It seems like because I came out with all of that text, you are accusing me of having discussed it overnight (with gerryoat, but I'm not sure where that connection came from.) However, there is something glaringly wrong with that accusation. Namely, pretty much everything I've been talking about is information from

day 2.

The fact that town can't lynch today was only revealed today. The three role choices were only revealed today. The only thing I could have discussed from there was the fact that there was 1 kill today, and even then I reference a post the mod made today.

[Dunnstral]

Furthermore, why am I scum with gerry? Is it because I argued against blocking him? Blocking a player also removes their ability to gain xp in any way during that night, it is confirmed that gerryoat started this day with 0 xp. If he has xp before night, the only possibility would be that there is an ability that gives him xp during the day.

It's not a good idea to block gerryoat. We should block a different player we suspect. Note that the player we block today will have a very hard time ever reaching their upgrade and will probably be stuck using either base abilities or the public mechanics that cost xp. Something to keep in mind before we block.

[Dunnstral]

Is dunn ignoring me for some reason that I'm not aware of lol

No, you're aware of the reason.

congrats, guys. half of you are morons.

Maki is scum, there is no way in HELL that she would waffle like that over blocking me and yurkin. she should have been able to see i was town at that point based on tone.

VOTE: role cop

self watcher is shit, role cop can get some role info from maf.

I was thinking on who I wanted to block based on other things (check my iso) I also thought you've said I couldn't read you many times
Shame gin died I was tring that slot eod idk how they felt about me but hey.

I think they scumread you. In fact, I was worried they had used their ability on you. It sounds like this is not the case though.

[Dunnstral]

They may have. I won't out this info regardless.

Actually, it is important that the person who ginngie targeted claims today. Accountability and everything.

HURT: gerry
what a bs answer

I ask that you read my posting today. It is confirmed that gerryoat is at 0 xp. I think he's mafia too, but blocking him again actually gets us nowhere.

The block mechanic prevents exp from being gained that night.

[Dunnstral]

ok sorry

...is this how you react to someone who is 100% mafia? You kind of just rolled over and accepted what maki said. I'm pretty certain you are mafia just based on this interaction.

Unfortunately we can't lynch today, so that's not really the focus of conversation right now.

Maki, let's get this going:

Block: Assemblerotws

[Dunnstral]

Actually, neighborizor does have a very real use that I've overlooked. It holds people accountable for their exp. It says "I neighborized today, I didn't train for exp or perform the mafia kill."

After all, if you can prove that you did something else then you couldn't have made the mafia kill.

[Dunnstral]

The important thing here is that neighborizor is provable. Just don't make it obvious who you're targeting, target randomly and the overwhelming majority of times it does not hit the dead guy

This limits other town powers, though. But it's a different approach to the game that is worth considering.

[Dunnstral]

It's not that i don't want to do work, its that I'm not confident in a decision here.

So what's your reasoning this time? Why did you follow the croud consensus that "rolecop is obvious" without focusing on my newest post bringing up neighborizor as an alternative? I'd like some insight into your thought process here.

[Dunnstral]

Do you not have an opinion on mafia gaining a rolecop, as well?

[Dunnstral]

I mean, I don't want people to just mindlessly sheep what I said either? I'm not even sure if this is a good idea yet, I'm trying to get some conversation going.

[Dunnstral]

Town gaining rolecop is stronger than mafia gaining it.
Neighborizer can end badly with puppet leaders.
Self-watcher is useless without a doctor/something else protective. Useful if Theres a BP too but thats unlikely.

Rolecop is ofc the superior choice.

Oh?

NMS just brought up the possibility that town not getting to lynch yet means they have multiple protectives though? Do you think they're wrong? It seems to me that you've dismissed Self-watcher based on something being unlikely... that someone else said was actually likely?

How can you be sure town gaining rolecop is stronger than mafia gaining it? I'm starting to think otherwise, actually. Mafia likely don't have obvious roles - this game would be pretty busted otherwise. We don't know if mafia gain additional xp, but I think it's a good idea to bet on a potential scum team of 3 gaining 4 exp total per night (if they were all to train, which they won't, somebody performs a kill, then prs etc.)

All you say about neighborizor is that it can "end badly with puppet leaders". Well, what are you talking about? That's notably not related to the discussion point I brought up about neighborizors.

[Dunnstral]

Maybe the host is just messing with us and making sure scum can kill around the same time town can lynch for balance reasons? Idk its complete wifom. self-watcher still is a weak role. But i'm willing to consider it.
Neighbourizer is a complete no for me, feel free to disagree; its a personal issue i have with it.

What do you mean? Ginngie died tonight, but we still can't lynch. So he definitely didn't make sure scum kill at the same time town lynch, if we assume that is a scum kill. Are you assuming that the kill was not from mafia?

Citing personal issues with neighborizor doesn't really help the discussion at hand? I'm not recommending neighborizor so people can chat. In fact, in this scenario I'm encouraging a method to determining neighborhoods.
I'm not bringing up neighborizors so people can chat with their friends. In fact, here is my proposal:

Assemblerotws
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed + mastina)
gerryoat
Raya36
Ghostlin
EeveeLution Army
Maki Harukawa
yurkin
Dunnstral
Vaxkiller
drealmerz7
Vijarada

Everybody would neighborize the player two spaces below them on the list.
The next night, we move one more space down the list, for a total of three spaces down the list.

Once again, I'm not proposing we use neighborhoods as traditional neighborhoods, but rather as the

ability to hold accountability

for your own actions.
Nobody would be forced to neighborize anyone. In fact, ideally

nobody would even claim their neighborhoods

until it was necessary. I understand that people with power roles are better off using them, I understand that not everyone can be caroled into a plan like this and will just train and upgrade on their own, I still think this is worth considering

[Dunnstral]

[Neighborizer]
During the night, any player may pay 1 XP to neighborize another player.

They may choose whether to add the target to an existing neighborhood created with this ability or create a new neighborhood

. There is no limit to the number of neighborhoods a player can be in. This is an active ability, and cannot be used in conjunction with another active ability.

Oh, this green part could be interesting.

@mod Are neighborhoods created by this ability open during the day?

And

[Upgrade]
At any time during the day or night, any player may spend 3 XP to upgrade their role, providing a bonus that is unknown until the upgrade is made. Each player can only upgrade once, and the upgrade takes effect at the end of the phase in which it was submitted, at which point the player will learn their new role. Players with upgraded roles will flip with both their original role and their upgraded role.

At any time during the day or night, any player may spend 3 XP to upgrade their role, providing a bonus that is unknown until the upgrade is made. Each player can only upgrade once, and the upgrade takes effect at the end of the phase in which it was submitted, at which point the player will learn their new role.

Players with upgraded roles will flip with both their original role and their upgraded role.

@mod If a player with 3 xp chooses to upgrade during the day, does getting blocked at the end of the day interfere with this upgrade, or will they complete the upgrade?

[Dunnstral]

2 spaces do-

looks

riiight. If you wanted to be in a neighborhood with me Dunn you could've just said so.

...

[Dunnstral]

I don't think the neighborizor plan I proposed is a good one, it has some holes and I don't trust people to keep their mouths shut about being in a neighborhood or not.
I'm concerned now that role cop may benefit the scum more than the town, if there are multiple protective abilities self watcher might be the way to go after all as that ability seems a lot less useful to mafia

[Dunnstral]

Block: Vijarada

[Dunnstral]

Why not just train towards upgrades instead? For most people

[Dunnstral]

if there is only 1 mafia alive, the formation of neighborhoods can be used to prove you are not performing the kill

I think mechanics wise neighboring has a ton of utility by being a provable action.

VOTE: Neighborizor

[Dunnstral]

sounding to me like dunn+gerry have discussed some things over Night

Are you referring to my post above?

Well, let's take a look at it, the topics I talk about are:

There being a kill night 1
Town not being able to lynch day 2
Self-watcher
Rolecop
Neighborizor

It seems like because I came out with all of that text, you are accusing me of having discussed it overnight (with gerryoat, but I'm not sure where that connection came from.) However, there is something glaringly wrong with that accusation. Namely, pretty much everything I've been talking about is information from

day 2.

The fact that town can't lynch today was only revealed today. The three role choices were only revealed today. The only thing I could have discussed from there was the fact that there was 1 kill today, and even then I reference a post the mod made today.

Furthermore, why am I scum with gerry? Is it because I argued against blocking him? Blocking a player also removes their ability to gain xp in any way during that night, it is confirmed that gerryoat started this day with 0 xp. If he has xp before night, the only possibility would be that there is an ability that gives him xp during the day.

It's not a good idea to block gerryoat. We should block a different player we suspect. Note that the player we block today will have a very hard time ever reaching their upgrade and will probably be stuck using either base abilities or the public mechanics that cost xp. Something to keep in mind before we block.

drealmerz ignored these posts and continues to vote gerry and push on me and others with flawed reasoning

neighborhoods let scum control information more than anything, and control influence of ppl of course

sure town in them when you get them can be good, but, eh, it's definitely the worst of the lot

town just sharing stuff in a hood is risky and if you just share in the thread you know a # of town are getting it, watcher and rolecop info is way more valuable

People aren't voting for neighborizor to share information inside of it, though. You're fabricating arguments to oppose this that doesn't match the clearly intended use of the neighborhoods.

Your arguments against using neighborhoods are

not

arguments against picking neighborizor when the neighborizor is being picked for other mechanical reasons.

Like, I get it. You're drealmerz7. I tolerate a certain amount of your anti-town behavior in every game we play, but your play this game feels scum motivated

Block: drealmerz7

[Dunnstral]

Quote what you think was discussed overnight.

[Dunnstral]

Quote what you think was discussed overnight.

@drealmerz7

[Dunnstral]

I'm asking a simple question. What do you think we discussed overnight from us talking?

[Dunnstral]

I think I've said everything I need to, are we progressing slowly here or what

[Dunnstral]

HURT: vijarada

[Dunnstral]

assemblerotws: otws = of the weak sauce

you are now assembler of the weak sauce

Stupidest joke about names I've seen so far, although I intend to level out of weaksauce.

@mod please prod NoticeMeSenpai, Vaxkiller, Ginngie, Assemblerotws, and yourself.

It hasn't been long enough for me to get prodded.

@mod Between these two posts by Assemlerotws, was there ever a time where he would have been eligible to receive a prod as outlined in the rules?

[Dunnstral]

Keep an eye out on Maki