Mini 1955: Perpetual MYLO III - Game Over!

[Chara]

VOTE: Wisdom
lonely and unconfirmed.

[Chara]

this game feels extremely scumsided mafia controls EVERYTHING a lot of lynches most likely won't happen without bussing if we ever lynch a mafia mafia will just kill whoever is playing the best on town or someone to wifom give credit if we lynch town mafia just kill whoever is playing the worst on there team or someone to make another mafia member look towny all in all this game is basically set up for mafia to get to 3 way with someone in the best spot and 2 towny people they think they can beat. This feels hugely scumsided.

VOTE: Chara

shouldn't you have known this before joining the game? i don't know what side the mechanic favours, but i'm excited to see the differences from a normal game.

[Chara]

forcing the scum to kill their own gives us opportunities for more interactions as well. i think scumhunting will be a little different, but i joined partially because interaction-based hunting is something i'm both not very good, and would like to improve on.

[Chara]

i hadn't thought far enough ahead to consider that, thanks.

[Chara]

so then you look for fake interactions. that hasn't changed. i don't like starting games with the idea town is likely to lose.

[Chara]

Interesting wordchoice as well.

what's this referring to?

[Chara]

Brian Skies
acidphoenix
DiamondSentinel
Chara
kunkstar7

Why are you all good at mafia?

busy tonight, but i can answer this quickly.

i'm not very good at scumhunting. at least, i'm not satisfied with it. better at townhunting. what i do seem to be good at is looking town when town and leading in instances of confusing setups or during arguments about optimal strategy. in the vein of scumhunting, i'm good at reevaluating, but bad at sticking to my guns.

hard to say for my scumgame, only times i have been for long periods of time have been in a hydra where i let Almost50 lead. i guess i'm pretty good at looking town there too.

i like talking about myself. i'll see you all tomorrow!

pedit: speaking of, UC is town.

[Chara]

oh look, another excuse to avoid work.
what are you seeing that i'm seeing, Wicked?

[Chara]

VOTE: kunkstar
i'll be back later.

[Chara]

This part:

#2-HOW THE HOLY FUCK! do you know how freaking early it is in the game. How the hell could you all ready know? unless your scum trying to get townie miss lynched!

Seems like a genuine reaction from someone with his amount of experience.

i agree it's genuine, but inexperienced scum could think this too. thanks for the answer, though.

i've decided to just townhunt and see where that gets me. the large percentage of scum is sort of heartening in that way.

[Chara]

traveling today. i'll be here or i won't, but you'll see me this evening either way.

Wicked: the "sorry" followed by the explanation of the vote isn't something i believe inexperienced scum would say while voting someone in the thread. it makes no sense to fake so i can only assume the sorry is genuine, and thus coming from town.
i have reads on the whole playerlist too, look forward to it. i love minis.

[Chara]

Gambit? I don't believe it for a second

Well it

was

a gambit. Why is that hard to believe? If I honestly believed that I figured out all five scum then I probably would have revealed those names by now.

Town that honestly believe you had figured out all scum? Sure, I'll buy that

Yeah I don't believe you.

this is really not game related, but to be a 'gambit' there must be an element of risk. your claim to have figured out all the scum was just a play, there was no risk to you.

...anyway. i said i'd have a readslist, but it's 1am and i'm tired.

133: this is a bit of an overreaction, Diamond.
Lycanfire might be town for 86 and 89.

acid and Diamond's page 4 conversation looks a little odd. maybe i'm seeing ghosts where there are none because i went into this expecting mafia to make a show of talking to themselves in the thread. Wicked sees it, in 105.
the most suspicious thing about Wicked right now is how much we agree on reads.

[Chara]

i'm reading now, glad there isn't a lot. quick kunkstar ISO has me happy with where my vote is.

[Chara]

take pity on me, i just woke up to go to the dentist and lycan has now dragged me twice. i said 'might be town', cut me some slack!
...i really will finish reading once i get back.

i am confused, though. the posts i townread in 142 were an issue with acid, followed by a rollback to saying they were town. were you not calling them possible scum in the first post?

[Chara]

i think only town would call that 'zero progression of reads' when, as you've just confirmed, your thoughts on acid in those two posts did progress. Wisdom's posts are irrelevant.
you say there was no progression because your mind was made up, but that isn't reflected in the thread.
i'm satisfied with what that tells me about your alignment.

as for my comment about the dentist, i wasn't trying to. just a joke at my own expense. you've called me out on being more concerned with talking about myself than reading you (true), and then overly-willing to townhunt to the point i've missed the point of the game entirely. (possibly true, you can approach it your way and i'll not waste my time on group dynamic analysis i know nothing about)

[Chara]

to be clear, i came to that conclusion just now as i was on my way home. my initial townlean was thrown out there before i heard your opinion that your reads didn't progress between the two posts.
(also, i have to have my wisdom teeth out after all. ugh.)

[Chara]

sorry for the prod! i'm here.
hello Mulch.
you want me to sheep you?

[Chara]

Scum can't explain their votes?

This is a disingenuous line of questioning but I'll bite, the answer is obviously.
It's about the presentation of the vote+list. Wicked is voting DS after having been called out for not switching to DS by acidphoenix, and his listing comes off to me as trying to overjustify the switch in vote in response. You're not going to get Wicked making a move like that as scum, I think Wicked as scum wouldn't have made that vote switch.

i don't see how you get a townread from this in particular.

185 from Wicked is towny and i don't want to vote it.

Chara, can you summarize the game so far by hitting key points in how the game has progressed?

how effective do you think this question is now that you've explained your methodology?
Wicked's "gambit", pedantic arguing with players who disagree with him, and continued attempts for structured arguments and overexplanation of his own positions. acid scumreads, your entry and explanation of your questions. not much has happened yet and what has happened has centered on Wicked.

244: lycan, why is it a player's responsibility to be nice to someone they're trying to read instead of using a question that generates conflict? the game runs on conflict. you're talking like Wicked has been insulting kunkstar instead of noting problems with the list.

i started this ready to vote Wicked, but i don't feel good about the wagon and think he's town.

I am interested in how Acid is walking off my suggestion that he and Wicked had a conversation about events that he should have known did not take place the way he was suggesting them to have occurred.

Mulch, what's your take on post 242?

can you reword the first sentence? i don't know who you're saying suggested what.

[Chara]

The fact that you glossed over what acidphoenix and I were trying to do by first saying in 200 that you didn't get it, and further saying here that acidphoenix offered scumreads and nothing more is what is going to keep you in the scumpile. I looked at your post 200 and saw something I disagreed with, another part had word choice I personally liked: by the end of it you were clearly not in the game and if you're town, you need to be in the game.

i was talking about the number of scumreads on acidphoenix, not saying that acidphoenix hadn't done anything.

[Chara]

[@Kunkstar] Are you scum reading any of the people that

are

contributing?

---

rather than get town!Kunk in the game you disparage him

You talk down Kunk in the the previous post- 177! What a drag on the game state.

after you chastise Kunk

I feel like you're resorting to a lot of misleading/exaggerative word choice over that post specifically. My question was not chastising kunkstar or talking down to him.

It was just a question.

You are severely misreading/misrepping the intention behind that. I've explained why kunkstar's list makes me suspect him.

It seriously bothers me that you're trying to paint me as a bully in this scenario.

i said this earlier, but i really do agree. it was nothing but a question. you're reading into a fantasy of aggressive play, Lycan.

i'm held back by the possibility that Wicked is scum who is unlucky, but this certainty he's scum when all he's really done that is scummy is overdefend his own votes is making me think the wagon is just on town.
and lycan's word choice is manipulative. that or it has a habit of reading far too much into innocuous things. the response towards me was largely to call me scum because i don't subscribe to its own theories of optimal play for this setup.

[Chara]

Anyone up for lynching Lycan? I would honestly prefer that to the kunkstar lynch. His push for me feels seriously off. I don't think he's even reading my posts entirely because he's asking questions about specific comments that would be answered if he just

finished reading the sentence

.

i'm still townleaning lycan. i think its response to my read on it being town is also more likely to come from town.
i unfortunately am unsure how to engage with it because its universe appears to be so far from my own. i'll give it another look in the morning with fresh eyes.

[Chara]

I flat-out said why: because he had nothing better to do! He was sitting on a scumread on Diamond, and openly said he would not move votes. Wicked took a detour in putting down Kunkstar, which he later stated to UCV as being his primary inspiration to vote him [kunk]. In the immediate post after putting down Kunkstar, he puts down acidphoenix, for reasons I stated were not bad reasons IF you were to ignore that Wicked briefly had the same thoughts previously- see his early 'gambit'!

you've ignored my main problem. at this point i'm beating a dead horse, so i won't repeat that Wicked hasn't been putting down anybody.
i don't see what Wicked's 'gambit' (yes i'm using quotations too, i maintain that it was a play, not a gambit.) has to do with the Wicked's opinion on acid's idea. they have nothing to do with each other.

i'm not even sure what you're saying here, honestly. there's a lot of noise. i asked why it was a player's responsibility to be nice when asking questions. you've given me this.
your thought process is hard to follow, and do you really not understand why i'm not following you on a group dynamics theory i know nothing about and don't understand how to put in practice the way you seem to?

[Chara]

seriously wicked jfc if you're town and have forum mafia experience you know fucking better than to think that one lazy readslist remotely justifies a tunnel, especially when you're saying you have confidence that 2+ scum are voting you and you think 3

Trust me, I would feel much better about lynching one of the scum on my wagon. But my vote for kunkstar is more than just "he made a lazy reads list". It's more based on his willingness to lynch any of those five players when he isn't confident in them being scum.

the readslist isn't why i'm voting kunkstar. one of the reasons is his stated reason for townreading you.

i think this "willingness to lynch" point doesn't amount to much. it's common practice to PoE or put scumleans or even null reads into a 'will lynch' pile.

why is Wisdom scum?

also, would you wagon Brian?

[Chara]

the only fun part of this game is Wicked and Lycan's posting, that's probably why i don't feel like engaging with anything else.

Wisdom, i'm really not seeing Wicked scum. i find kunkstar's reason for townreading him to be more suspicious than Wicked himself. would you go Brian or kunkstar instead?

[Chara]

UC, keep in mind this game has a lot of scum. i'll eat the hat i don't wear if we get through this game without major bussing. it's not all that strange to vote with a scumread.

[Chara]

i could lynch Mulch and Michael for that exchange alone.

the above is an exaggeration. it's still scummy.

[Chara]

if you know each other, then i take back what i said about Mulch. you, however, can still be lynched.
you're not allowed to post without receiving your role card.

[Chara]

that he's lying is what i was implying.

[Chara]

Brain starts with question, he would think more about the game and how to start if he was scum. He than votes without real reasons, but yet it implies he actually has gut reads. Not knowing Diamond makes them not w/w which lowers his chance to be scum. Calling out acid's reads as unreasonable in the place, not a bus because a bus would be different. Don't think pushing Diamond for fun is scum approach. More unreasonable votes. This is generally not how scum play the game
I'm town

at this point i don't really care when the rolecard was given out. opening with a towncase on yourself is either scum or Michael trolling. unfortunately i have to at least entertain the possibility of the latter.

[Chara]

i'll gladly lynch Michael for the sake of my sanity in general.
but no, it's my business to be the tolerant one.

why am i town after Mulch, Michael?

[Chara]

never mind, i just found your catchup. like 5 pages away.

[Chara]

both of you know better than to scumread me for being "frozen"

also, the fact that you managed to use meta on me and aggressively push me for a case means that either a. (less likely) people don't care about your case and you're searching for opportunities for me to post the Einstein insanity quote

or b(more likely). your case is dogshit given how blatant the differences apparently are(source: toranaga) and how easy they should be to get across

do you have actually good reads




disclaimer haven't read the case and don't see a reason to

why do neither of these options carry an implicit "i'm town"? i can't see it.
why aren't Mulch and/or Michael scum pushing you?

i've been tuning those two out and i still am, but i'm less opposed to an acid lynch than i was before this post.

[Chara]

--This point is something I mentioned as being good, if not for the fact that his gambit was very similar. I feel like this is my main point in support of a Wicked lynch.

talk about this? how was his gambit to get discussion going similar to acid's plan?

[Chara]

i'm starting to tune out every time you bring up group dynamics. i really am. what about Wicked's gambit had to do with group dynamics?
Wicked said he knew the whole scumteam as his challenge. it was fake and an obvious gambit. it was a

general

gambit. it could be done in any game, not just Perpetual Mylo. acid suggested picking a group of five scum and had a plan to do so that was based on thread information, even if it was minor. and it was something specifically based around this being Perpetual Mylo.
the similarities are so loose i don't see how you're drawing them at all.
'seemingly' doesn't cover it, either. where was Wicked pushing acid in any direction?

[Chara]

fine. i'm ignoring you.

[Chara]

no, that's a lie, i'm pretty sure i'm incapable of ignoring you.
i'm pretty sure you're town. if you're scum i don't care, that's fine. i'm bothered because i think you're town. your responses to me make me feel that you're either on another plane of existence, or that you're right and i'm the idiot here who can't understand what you're saying. because i don't understand

any

of it.

-I feel like he has tried too hard to be useful while actively holding back the game state

debatable but i understand it.

--For instance, he has pointed out how self sacrifice will guarantee flips. I'm sure everybody (1) questioned how perpetual mylo worked (2) looked at the setup (3) realized the game would last a single day (4) looked at the mechanics that made the game perpetual.

i openly did not think this far ahead until Wicked said so explicitly. guess i'm not very smart. forgive me for assuming there are some people who also didn't think like this initially.

-Wicked made an early gambit, and that was in fact good on him, however he used the above problem to strike down Acidphoenix's 5-man plan, citing how flips will be huge for the town.
--This point is something I mentioned as being good, if not for the fact that his gambit was very similar. I feel like this is my main point in support of a Wicked lynch.

i disagree with his gambit being similar. i explained why. your explanation doesn't make sense unless you assume everything is thinking exactly like you are.

[Chara]

that wasn't an attempt to put down your mafia skill. i have no idea how you read it that way.

[Chara]

sorry. i read it again. ignore 559, i'm obviously not thinking clearly right now. i'll come back to the thread at another time.

[Chara]

would playing by the rules be offering someone else? assuming you're referencing the end of 550.
VOTE: acid
i'm not trying to be difficult. i'm trying to avoid getting annoyed when there's no reason for me to be annoyed.
i think i've succeeded. hopefully.

[Chara]

your acid scumread + 534.

[Chara]

the theory of Mulch scum self-destructing to mislynch acid doesn't apply now that two of them are doing it.

[Chara]

those supporters would reveal themselves as supporters (scum) and be lynchable, therefore ruining the point of Mulch self-destructing and being sacrificed after the lynch.

do you think i'm wrong? i'm very used to being wrong.

[Chara]

hm. i need to post. been avoiding the thread for reasons.

Lycan: you're right, i've abandoned the line of thought due to the logical error that i should have seen at the time of posting.
hello, replacements. welcome to the game.
i'll help to avoid a no lynch of course, but my preference is not Wicked.
cursory thoughts are Kaede is town.

pedit: i wish i didn't have to retire for the night now, but that's how it goes. Kaede townread is now solid.
Maki: i don't either. he's done a few scummy things but i'd ultimately call him town.

...i hope the fresh day phase will renew the bad taste in my mouth this game has given me so far.

[Chara]

i believe Kaede is town. Dunnstral could go either way. grouped together because of the Mulch/Michael thing.

...really, apologies for this day phase. this game is proving difficult. hopefully the next day will be easier to navigate with what's essentially a new playerlist.

[Chara]

i'm paranoid about being wrong on Wicked, to the point i keep catching myself wanting to follow the Wicked wagon just to flip him and know for sure.
that's dumb and i'm not going to do it. i think acid was scum, Viomi hasn't looked town, and i'm comfortable townreading both Shuichi and Kaede.

pedit: there we go.

[Chara]

scum wisdom? it's more likely than you think.

[Chara]

i'd argue with you, but i know you know that isn't the reason i'm townreading Wicked, or why anyone else is.
so instead i'll agree. yes, he's town because walls.

[Chara]

dunno, i can follow the reasoning on his posts so far, looks like he's trying to game solve to me.
Meanwhile viomi's posts feel random and detached.

Vioma has been very null, but acid was scum.

[Chara]

that should tell you she's town.
it's not why i'm townreading Wicked either, but i've half a mind just to see where this goes.

[Chara]

i'm aware you don't care, that's why i didn't explain.

[Chara]

checking in, busy today.
lycan, i found their opening exchange to be scummy, proceeded to ignore the thread for a while, then found acid's response to Michael's case to be very scummy, and tried to poke there. acid replaced out, Viomi did nothing to improve the slot.
acid scum meant Mulcg/Michael scum was more unlikely so i disregarded that earlier kneejerk read and stuck with the more informed acid one.
Wisdom continues to push Wicked and makes up some scum theatre. that's about what i expected.
Kaede and Shuichi are still town.
VOTE: Wisdom until i remember who else is in this game that i'm not townreading. if Wicked is scum that's on me. there's other scum though so Wisdom how about you find a different one to push for a while. 4 left.

[Chara]

i'm here, just reading.

[Chara]

hm. it seemed interesting so i checked it out, but i'm not seeing any particular difference in his opinion towards Viomi scum from his one on Diamond/lycan scum.

[Chara]

unless the team is Viomi/lycan/Diamond/placeholder? haha.

[Chara]

eh. i guess i'm not scumreading you after all.
UNVOTE:
Viomi/Wicked/Lycan/kunkstar/Dunnstral?

[Chara]

Vote Count 1-10

kunkstar7

(3): Chara, Wickedestjr, Maki Harukawa

Wickedestjr

(3): Wisdom, Lycanfire, DiamondSentinel

acidphoenix

(2): Mulch, Michael22Omega

DiamondSentinel

(1): acidphoenix

Mulch

(1): Not_Mafia

Not_Mafia

(1): UC Voyager

Not Voting

(1): kunkstar7

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: November 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-11-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

this votecount doesn't make a lot of sense with that team. maybe not.
why am i doing this now. good night.

[Chara]

Lycan, i wasn't the one who brought up the theory of Mulch suicide. i was thinking about it because Wisdom said that's what was happening.

[Chara]

the one problem with my theory is that i don't know how acid gets lynched over wicked. kunkstar wasn't going to happen- that was a tried and failed counterwagon. did both wagons land on scum and the scumteam decided to mercy kill the slot for townpoints? it isn't inspiring-but that would be the best move in this single scenario.

that's because Kaede and i are town.
one of kunkstar/Wicked is scum.

[Chara]

gonna be honest whenever i see wisdom's avi i just assume he's calling for wicked to hang so i just let him do whatever he wants

so you're saying i'm not gamesolving but you just don't read Wisdom's posts? nice.
just say you missed it and reconsider your theory. or hang and flip scum.
but i still think your day 1's town. i don't know. all of your rhetoric surrounding me is conjured from thin air. i explained my Mulch read. acid was scum, Mulch super bussed or was town, but Kaede obvtowned. easy.

[Chara]

VOTE: kunkstar
why does Viomi's scumflip initially make you think Wicked is scum too? it doesn't sound like you considered scum theatre until it was brought up, the way you phrased it.

[Chara]

i mean your chara pushing is good too, theyre also scum, but yeah

i thought i was leftovers, not scum.

i can buy you not sorting me but you've seen my embarrassing scumgame.

[Chara]

the difference is that i'm sure wisdom would game solve if i asked him. i have to kidnap you and take you to game solve mountain, only to hear you say "nope" and jump off a cliff every time

don't care, we don't agree. my wagon flipped scum. when yours does too, then we can talk about who's gamesolving.

[Chara]

Lycan, that question was to kunkstar.

[Chara]

nice subtle discredit. manipulative much?

(joke)

[Chara]

oh, no, i got that. my joke was about calling the kunkstar wagon a counterwagon, on the assumption that it was a town counterwagon to scum Wicked.
guess it didn't really come through, haha.

[Chara]

so you would've thought Wicked more town if Viomi had flipped town?

[Chara]

I think there are some notable differences in viomis tone towards wicked and towards me. I also think that some of her posts to me feel like she's setting up to have something to do if she's alive the next day, but if wicked were town she wouldn't be alive the next day regardless of who was lynched.

VOTE: Wicked

that's interesting, i hadn't looked to compare the two.

i'll look at the circumstances of kunkstar's vote.

those asking for a kunkstar case: i'll give it if i still think he's scum after checking out whether Viomi was a bus.

[Chara]

eh.
kunk scum and Wicked town makes no sense. my reads say kunk scum and Wicked town but they're obviously just wrong.
i haven't been paying attention to the count but i'll vote Wicked. time to let go of that terrible townread that's caused me nothing but problems.

[Chara]

Although: why does wicked scum leave wisdom and me alive?

stop making my head hurt.
why'd they kill Miu/Not Mafia?

[Chara]

that's my point. the kill is odd by itself so questioning why Wicked scum doesn't kill you or Wisdom is the same as questioning why kunkstar scum doesn't kill someone going after him.
for what it's worth, Not Mafia was probably going to vote Wicked, which is my working theory, but it's a bad kill no matter how you look at it unless Wisdom is scum, which doesn't feel right.

[Chara]

@Maki, Chara - why would kunkstar-scum vote for Viomi if I am town?

I haven't really thought of it that much to be honest I'd have to go back and look at vc's

see: why i've flipped my Wicked and kunkstar reads. more later, apologies.

[Chara]

Wicked flips town, i blame anyone who isn't me. :>
i apologize for this game falling by the wayside. consider my vote there until i get a chance to look at the count.

my flip on all (by that i mean like, three) of my reads was because my reads didn't make sense with the gamestate. also, Wicked hasn't done anything impressive recently. ;>

[Chara]

@Maki, Chara - why would kunkstar-scum vote for Viomi if I am town?

don't think you're town anymore, that's part of the reason why. this question throws me off a little because i don't know who scum Wicked could possible be trying to wagon with it to survive.
oh well.

[Chara]

don't be afraid, Shuichi. Kaede believes in you.

[Chara]

Spoiler:

"Miu Iruma... the Ultimate inventor
She died before telling us how her Scem scanner worked"

"And the killer
Is one of us"

"It's time to begin the class trial
The battle between the blackened and the spotless"

#Danganronpa

singlehandedly rekindled my inspiration for this game.
not kidding.
i've been gone, but i'm back. glad there isn't too much to read. i know there are questions for me as well, getting to them.

[Chara]

i'm sheeping Kaede until i'm voteless or i die.

(that's a joke, i'm reading now and will form my own conclusions)

[Chara]

Chara: "Thanks for posting this, you've inspired me to catch up and do stuff Kaede!"
Me: "You're welcome"

1 day later...
*crickets*

So.... what was all that "reignited your desire to play" or whatever about?

it did. and then i was busy yesterday. :< it's not something i can really help?

[Chara]

DiamondSentinel
Lycanfire
kunkstar7

Dunnstral
Wickedestjr

kunkstar/Wicked/Viomi makes little sense as a team so i'm discounting it. these players are all ones i'd lynch.
i have a real scumread on Dunn, the one on Wicked is one of those "throwing my hands up" sort of feelings.

[Chara]

like, if he's town scum aren't choosing him to go down. having him in the game at this point as an unknown is so frustrating to play around, even if i still want to townread him. i'd rather lynch Dunnstral. and if this was a normal game i'd be happier with just letting Wicked hang.
but i'll just trust the townreads minus Lycan that are on Wicked right now.

[Chara]

My vote will be on wicked or shuichi. Put one to L-1 and I'll hammer.

Preferably shuichi.

so day ends when i put my vote onto Wicked? cool.
i'll go see why Maki is pushing Wisdom scum first, but this is probably how the day will end.

[Chara]

intent to hammer.

[Chara]

why are you townreading chara and maki?

I can try and tackle this later if it matters. Chara much more of a town read than maki.

we can talk about this next game day :>

actually i might just hammer. i'll do it when i get home anyway and i imagine we're just waiting on that at this point.

Wisdom i have no idea why you think my killer scum strategy for saving Wicked has gone to just staying out of the thread in hopes he doesn't get hammered.
actually, i do. it's why i don't scumread you for it.

[Chara]

VOTE: Wicked
well, i need to go. sorry if you're town Wicked. i promise to read your opinions and wagon this night if you are. i take responsibility for losing confidence in my townread and being unable to explain it.

[Chara]

eh. i guess i'm not scumreading you after all.
UNVOTE:
Viomi/Wicked/Lycan/kunkstar/Dunnstral?

VOTE: kunkstar
why does Viomi's scumflip initially make you think Wicked is scum too? it doesn't sound like you considered scum theatre until it was brought up, the way you phrased it.

Hmm?

this is before i realized my reads were bad and Wicked was scum. don't want to lynch kunkstar today.

[Chara]

VOTE: Dunnstral
apologies for the quick hammer yesterday.

why is Wisdom an odd kill, Diamond?

[Chara]

oh, i do.
that list was to Wisdom, to see if he agreed. i went back and forth on seeing if Wicked is scum vs. kunkstar scum.

[Chara]

i probably wouldn't've hammered if i'd actually been here to argue. by the time i got a chance to really look at the game my choices were to hammer Wicked or to do nothing of value. i don't know why Wisdom thought i was stalling for Wicked, when he was the inevitable lynch in part because i

wasn't

here to defend him. and i wasn't going to go after Wisdom after figuring out he was town.
i'm pretty sure we can win unless we really screw up from here, which i doubt.
my opinion on Lycan has changed after the Wicked flip. i suppose i was just frustrated with it.

[Chara]

Chara
Shuichi Saihara
Kaede Akamatsu

Lycanfire
DiamondSentinel
Maki Harukawa

kunkstar7
Dunnstral


i want a perfect win.
the only reason Diamond is where he is is Wisdom's read. but Wisdom isn't infallible, if you look at the read on me. Maki being where she is is a combination of Wisdom's read and my own, plus voting him with Dunnstral.
was i right to rule out kunkstar and Wicked as being on the same team?

[Chara]

i said i would listen to Wisdom if his push also flipped scum. guess we're even. i think an ISO dive on him would be worth it, and i will do one, but Wicked is first.
agreed on Lycan then, haha.

[Chara]

Lycan should be in the top 4, actually.
Diamond/Maki/kunkstar/Dunnstral
only one of those is town. is it that easy?

[Chara]

really? i guess i don't have experience with town Wisdom. he seemed the obvious choice. Kaede was town but unsure of herself while Wisdom appeared to have a lock on half the game. Shuichi was my other expectation.

pedit: i'm exceedingly confident in Dunnstral scum because there's really no reason i have to call them town. Maki's position is bad but her explanations and feelings could come from a towny place. kunkstar is scummy but his interactions are sort've weird with both Viomi and Wicked to be teamed. still working on that.

you're leftovers, but Wisdom-approved. Dunnstral has nothing.

[Chara]

i probably had a reason for that read too but honestly, i don't feel like trusting my radar anymore this game. playing by vote/push positioning seems more effective at this point. listen to surefire town and look at how the game played out as a whole. that sort of thing.
where are your thoughts at?

[Chara]

bussing is a less effective strategy here. hard bussing nets town a point and gives towncred to the busser. but the game can be won with two scum alive, so towny scum don't even need to be lynched provided their presence as town leaders doesn't keep us from lynching their buddies. sure, scummy scum can be sacrificed at night if we mislynch, so they may have thought about that one day 1, but in my opinion towncred earned from bussing isn't worth it. the scum that don't bus don't get that credit and are still lynchable. of course i'm talking about hard-bussing here, not bus votes that had to be made to avoid looking irredeemably scummy.
easy mode is, scum is all in my pool of 4. hard mode is scum is in Kaede/Shuichi. but i'm really not worried about that right now.

[Chara]

The other 2 who are anywhere in the realm of possibility for scum would be Miu and Maki. You and Kaede are by far my strongest TRs.

did you mean to put something besides Miu here?

[Chara]

Basically, my path of attack is Kunkstar, Lycan, and then Shuichi.

i can't get behind Lycan or Shuichi. when i have time i'm going to ISO you for why Shuichi is even a scumread.

my working theory on the NM/Miu kill is scum didn't want someone to analyze the kill (say, if it were Wisdom) and then sheep his reads, so they killed town who was very likely to vote scum but was less vocal about it. a safer target that still furthers wincon.
then you'd wonder why scum wants to leave vocal town who SR them alive, but. i sort of understand being afraid of kill analysis. i just finished a scumgame so the feeling is fresh in my mind.

[Chara]

but Chara is town, that's the important point of agreement.

what do you think of my list, Shuichi?

[Chara]

Diamond: why am i town for you?
also, kunkstar scum means that despite the day 1 town:scum ratio being 7:5, all major wagons were on scum. i guess they could just be bad, but

that

bad?

[Chara]

I think you're in the ballpark, though I might quibble about the order, and the only thing giving me pause is Wisdom's hardon for lynching you.

i'll obvtown again in no time. Wisdom isn't right about everything, just a lot of things. i was busy playing in a Blitz for basically all of day 2. it ended up being more demanding than i'd thought, is all.

i'm happiest with Dunn, but i could see Maki scum too. or wrong town, yesterday. i need to reread day 2 because i was really removed from it.
i think, once that's done, i can be really confident in someone.

[Chara]

Oh look, another shitty readlist that makes no sense whatsoever. For starters, there is no possible way that anyone could read null on Wisdom. Especially with the amount of discredit you give him, between the "he can't be thinking", and "he could be scum" posts

just because you seem to be able to read Wisdom doesn't mean everyone can. he's good as both alignments. why can't someone waffle on him?

[Chara]

the other problem with scum Shuichi is UC obvtowned before replacing out.

[Chara]

If you think Wisdom found my scumbuddies, why do you suspect kunkstar over his actual suspects, Chara and Maki?

i'd like to know this too. and also why Diamond is townreading me.

[Chara]

if this is Shuichi pulling the bus of the century, he's awful at risk/reward calculation. just terrible. scum Shuichi doesn't benefit from these plays. even if he's scum and i'm eating out of his hand right now, it doesn't matter because his other buddies are still vulnerable and he gave town 2 points for shits.
he's town.

[Chara]

Literally the only player here i have strong enough reasons to believe is town is Shuichi, I need 1-2 more for PoE.

i pushed acid/Viomi. do i get a cookie?

[Chara]

alright, that's true. it's another reason i don't want to lynch kunkstar today.
and why i want to lynch Dunn! :>

pedit: yes.

[Chara]

btw shuichi was the one who mentioned viomi and wicked might be scum together a couple times, so points for him

i was trying to find why i started townreading Wisdom. it was this post. more interesting is where he gives townpoints to Shuichi for being right.
so can we focus on my excellent scumpool now?

[Chara]

VOTE: Maki

Personally I like Dunn for scum better but I don't want Wis to yell at me from the grave.

no, spit on Wisdom's memory by voting the scum he wasn't pushing. be your own man, Shuichi.

i don't have a big preference. Dunn is my best guess for doing exactly zero town things, but Maki's in my pool too.

[Chara]

it's possible they did make 3 scum wagons tho. we shouldn't dismiss that out of hand. if they were losing someone d1 they'd probably rather lose someone less charismatic.

it doesn't look to me that scum were making a concentrated team effort anywhere. which serves well for distancing but it could have let a lot of scum wagons pop up despite scum's numbers.
i don't think speculating on that will get us too too far, but i'm confident enough in my townlist to just PoE from here.

[Chara]

Chara i don't think I am going to be able to read you.

why'd you say this, Dunn?

[Chara]

no, spit on Wisdom's memory by voting the scum he wasn't pushing. be your own man, Shuichi.

But, I'm his sidekick.

i was already imagining Wisdom as the Kaito analogue.
now i'm sad. :<

[Chara]

answer my question, Diamond?
you didn't answer Shuichi's 1383. why aren't you following Wisdom's actual scumreads if your narrative is that he was killed because he has Shuichi's team down?

[Chara]

^^^^^^^

[Chara]

to be fair about that votecount, though, the Wisdom wagon was composed of scum and probable scum.

[Chara]

not that Diamond is scumreading any of those people, so from his perspective the point doesn't make any sense.

[Chara]

Lycan is just jealous it doesn't have a DR alt.

[Chara]

i'm here, but i haven't made my mind up on the Maki/Dunn situation.
Diamond still needs to answer why i'm town, though. and the other questions. i'm happy to vote there too.

[Chara]

and why are you voting kunkstar, and have your scumlist the way it is, when Wisdom was not scumreading kunkstar, or Lycan, or Shuichi?
your theory that Shuichi killed Wisdom because he found the scumteam makes no sense at all when you look at your actual reads, and Wisdoms reads. if you think your reads are right, then Wisdom was nowhere near the scumteam.

[Chara]

do you trust your gut more than your

own

faulty logic, too? ;>

[Chara]

discrediting Wisdom: he thought Wisdom was wrong. he turned out to be right, but i agreed with Wicked town for a long time, too. i'm pretty sure i

also

made discredits towards Wisdom. see the time i called his (correct) gauge of the Wicked/acid scum theatre situation "made up".
being wishy-washy: this plain isn't a scumtell. it's evidence of him being unsure.

i doubt arguing about this will go anywhere because your answer will just be "gut".
one of your theories was faulty, therefore it was faulty logic that you used and was proven to be wrong. you can't just say 'words' to support things until something sticks.

[Chara]

Maki, are you confident in your new reads despite having them thrown on their head with the Wisdom and Wicked flips?

[Chara]

Maki, are you confident in your new reads despite having them thrown on their head with the Wisdom and Wicked flips?

I won't get anywhere if I just sit back and go "what if" with my reads will I?

no you won't, but there's a difference between playing the game with your best guess reads and settling in to self vote so you're listened to when you don't even have confidence that you're correct.

[Chara]

the only thing worth doing today is explaining to me why Dunn is town if you don't want Dunn lynched.

[Chara]

i don't want to win with mislynches either. in this instance, they're a safety net. falling off the rope and hitting the net means we don't die, but we still failed to cross. at least, that's how i feel about it.
which is why making up my mind about Maki, because i have to weigh whether she is town who really believes it's better for her to be mislynched here or scum trying to use that to get us to avoid lynching her for the win.

[Chara]

time to do that thing where i drop all of my reads like hot potatoes and get new ones, i guess.

[Chara]

really think i explained the above, Dunnstral.

sorry for disappearing, rl got the best of me. but i didn't get prodded this time! :>

[Chara]

That vote count does not bode paricularly well for my sense of the gme.

I'm having the same issue right now...

does putting Maki as town help at all?

[Chara]

I already suspect her, and I suspect her more because of this. It's not fucking difficult to understand.

so

now

do you understand why i'm suspicious of your TR on me?

[Chara]

actually i don't know how i feel about Maki town, either. i really need to figure out where it is i stand on my TR pile. i keep feeling like something is wrong there. only 3 scum left means they shouldn't be able to control the game, but i keep finding reasons to want to TR my poe pool.

[Chara]

And to address everyone suspecting kunkstar today, explain to me why he casts the L-1 vote for viomi with Dunn visibly wavering unless he's also scum with wicked in which case vote there first.

wouldn't it be funny if this post contained the entire scumteam?

[Chara]

why are you townreading Lycan?

[Chara]

i was hoping to find Dunn had returned and answered my question.

at this point i don't think i can solve the game. but we only need to find one scum. the obvious is Dunnstral.
i don't... really understand Maki's position here at all. it looks like stubbornness at this point.

[Chara]

i'm glad you're here. maybe i can understand now.
so, you said you thought Dunn was town earlier? and now you don't?

[Chara]

i get the part about using your townflip to implicate Shuichi. don't agree at all, but i get it.

[Chara]

so you told Shuichi to vote you because you think he's scum, not because you still think lynching you is a good idea. but if you do get lynched, you want to make sure your scumread of him doesn't go unheard.

as for Kaede: i'm wondering that too, actually.

[Chara]

Diamond, you need to pick someone who isn't kunkstar to vote. no one is lynching there and we need all town to get a scum lynch.
and by pick someone i mean pick Dunnstral.
i think Maki will flip town.

i'm unsure where i am on the rest of the gamestate. we got those scum lynches we did because scum thought bussing for towncred was more important than trying to get points. most of my reads are sort of a mess but i'm pretty sure waiting around isn't going to get us any closer to a win.

[Chara]

i've been nursing a scumread on Kaede for the past few days or so. i think since she made a (correct) comment about scum being unable to kill town at this point, and it made me want to have a look at her. i don't know why. it's something town would know too.

haven't said anything about it because it's exactly the kind of conspiracy-esque read turnaround desperate scum in this situation would try. now, however, i'm just thinking "fuck it". waiting around is boring, being unconfident in my reads is also boring.

but whether or not she's scum is sort've irrelevant if i'm right about Dunnstral scum. i'm more confident in Maki town than Dunnstral scum, and Maki isn't exactly my best read, so make of that what you will.

[Chara]

I hate that the dynamic makes me feel like I'm going to be a mislynch now if Maki's town and I don't lynch her.

come again? do you mean if you do?

[Chara]

Could I be

that

wrong?

i'm extremely used to being wrong. i don't know you well enough to say.

[Chara]

Although this game's been kind of fun I don't think I'd do the setup again.

It's weird and stressful.

i keep getting hit with the sobering knowledge that every single town player has to be on board to get a scum lynch. then i forget. then am reminded.

[Chara]

You're boring...
VOTE: Maki
Is that as far as your confidence goes? Dunn if scum is never gonna self-vote. Meanwhile I was.

don't really understand what you're saying here. why would Maki switch to voting you just because you voted yourself? or what you voting yourself for a post has to do with that decision.

[Chara]

i'm going to hate myself if Maki is scum, but i'm already committed to this i suppose.

[Chara]

Let me check who you replaced in for

UCV

haha. what happened here?

[Chara]

oh, check context, dummie. i actually remember noticing this and then realizing Diamond was asking about Shuichi once already.
pedit: yep.

[Chara]

From Maki's PoV both me and Dunn are scum, obviously scum are on 1 lynch left to lose, so Dunn is never gonna self vote if he's scum, if im self voting, Maki would need less town members to vote with her on me to achieve a lynch since it would be the equivalent to me being a voteless hated, which should be easier to achieve than on Dunn, but she refused, why?, because she prefers to keep pushing Dunn who is probably gonna flip town by the looks of it, and because she needs to keep her idea that im scum. Even when it's obvious that im not.

or there's no guarantee you're going to keep self voting..? it's not like Maki voting you will initiate a flash-lynch.

[Chara]

if by clear you mean clear as mud, then yes.
that has nothing to do with 1666. and your split-second self really has nothing to do with Maki's self, either. if you were making a point with self-voting regarding Maki's alignment, the logic you've applied in 1666 is all baseless.

[Chara]

ok.
and yet, 1666. 'if Maki thinks we're both scum, she should have voted me', is obviously wrong when anyone playing this game right now knew your self-vote wasn't genuine. why make the post?

[Chara]

If wicked is scum why wouldn't scum have just sacrificed him to deny a point

????
I thought scum can only sacrifice if a mislynch happens.

Dunnstral townslip, Kaede? ;>

[Chara]

Kaede's final Wicked vote comes after a period of Wicked votes and unvotes, where she repeats that she's unsure about the gamestate, about whether Wicked is scum, and states he feels town. finally, 1328. this is a null vote at best. town Kaede made the right choice, scum Kaede gave up on trying to save Wicked.
UNVOTE:

1335 is another "i'm not sure" post from Kaede that i'm now having trouble finding genuine at all.

[Chara]

re: Dunn townslip: i don't really believe it's a townslip, sorry. that was a joke about townslips and your earlier Maki townread.

pedit: that's right! impressive deduction.
but no, i'm not that sure yet. hence the unvote.

[Chara]

going through ISOs and pointing out posts is the worst.

eeenie minie mini moe, i pray to god this will flip scum
VOTE: wicked

Dunno this feels like it's going too smooth... im getting paranoid...

Ugh, what am i even doing
UNVOTE:

There must be something we've missed...
I don't get it, why did Miu die.

I feel like I should just lynch him and be done with it, this read has caused me more problems than I needed and blame Wisdom if he flips town.

But then that's the easy way out.

The problem with this of course is assuming everyone is generally correct that we're looking at a TvS situation here then if we're wrong the other one leaves.

Which is possibly an argument for wagoning somewhere else entirely. <_>

Maybe Shuichi's right.
There's 4 scum remaining, and we only need to lynch 2 of those unless we mislynch, if Wicked's scum he wont win alone.

but this sums it up. there's a back and forth, but the underlying thought is she's trying to get the lynch somewhere else. it looks like faked indecision to disguise trying to pull the lynch somewhere else. probably because a Wicked lynch puts scum in the dangerous position they're in right now.

[Chara]

Anyways Chara, I saw you mention me earlier. Do you have some questions for me in particular? I see you're putting FOS on Kaede. Maybe you'd care to discuss that?

i don't remember what i would have said, really. i don't really understand you from either side.
oh, right, it was because you're voting kunkstar and i'd rather you were voting someone who has a chance to get lynched. i'm in the process of casing Kaede. even if i hate that word. it is what it is, though.

[Chara]

Meh, whatever, I was surprised it hadnt happened yet.

i'm not surprised at myself, though. laziness and complacency is so damn

attractive

to me as a person.
your tone was bleeding town and i made the mistake of thinking that was good enough. combined with Shuichi's own townread on you i was completely enamored.
but it pretty much fell apart as soon as i started looking at you critically. now i can't see anything but fake uncertainty in your posts.

[Chara]

Impressive deduction!
That's exactly what I was trying to do!

And the reason why.
Is exactly as I stated, wicked looked towny to me.

then why did you keep voting him? you were so uncertain you kept flip-flopping but really, the whole time you're trying to pull the lynch away.

[Chara]

ok.
and yet, 1666. 'if Maki thinks we're both scum, she should have voted me', is obviously wrong when anyone playing this game right now knew your self-vote wasn't genuine. why make the post?

can you answer this one too?

[Chara]

Oh well you know what this is tiring.
If trying to go for a perfect win is gonna get me ML'd, i rather just vote Dunn and pray
VOTE: Dunn

Maki and i are going to mislynch you by ourselves?
why aren't you worried i'm scum?

[Chara]

Spoiler: Kaede votes

eeenie minie mini moe, i pray to god this will flip scum
VOTE: wicked

Ok i buy that
VOTE: Wicked

Kaede, if you're having trouble with reads then why would you already be sheeping? I can understand struggling with reads but at the same time

it doesn't feel like you're doing much to change that.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Wicked

You were already voting for me.

I know.
I just wanted to add emphasis, that i didnt like your statement.

VOTE: Wicked
I'm done trying to think, maybe i was just overthinking things.

you sure did unvote him. then voted him a few posts later. and then, reaffirm your vote in 1211. followed by your final vote when i believe it was clear the vote wasn't going anywhere else.

[Chara]

Spoiler: Kaede votes

eeenie minie mini moe, i pray to god this will flip scum
VOTE: wicked

Ok i buy that
VOTE: Wicked

Kaede, if you're having trouble with reads then why would you already be sheeping? I can understand struggling with reads but at the same time

it doesn't feel like you're doing much to change that.

VOTE: Wicked

You were already voting for me.

I know.
I just wanted to add emphasis, that i didnt like your statement.

VOTE: Wicked
I'm done trying to think, maybe i was just overthinking things.

you sure did unvote him. then voted him a few posts later. and then, reaffirm your vote in 1211. followed by your final vote when i believe it was clear the vote wasn't going anywhere else.

whoops. didn't realize there was a spoilered image within those quotes. fixed.

[Chara]

i dont really care at this point.

i haven't even voted you. i think i'm being very nice about this whole thing as i talk directly to you to see if i'm wrong somewhere instead of just shouting for your lynch.
you're not answering my questions anymore?

[Chara]

oooo that's so hardcore ate.
Don't worry we're winning.

i don't know how to deal with this, really. i'm not going to apologize for scumreading Kaede but if she's town i'm going to feel like shit for it anyway.

we're winning with the Dunn lynch so it doesn't matter? do you think Kaede is scum or town?

[Chara]

[Chara]

if i made you cry, i'm sorry.

[Chara]

looking at Lycan's approach to both Wicked and acidphoenix, it's a little difficult to see all three of them as scum together. i'd really rather not lynch there either.

[Chara]

i'm extremely tempted to just throw away my Maki townread. i'm more scared of being wrong on her if she's scum than if she's town.
and u just don't know what to do about Kaede. wash my hands of it, i guess? my reads this game suck, maybe it's best to just trust Wisdom and Lycan's confidence in Maki scum despite both of them misreading me. it's not like i've given much cause besides tone to actually be townread.

[Chara]

it's not that i want to give up. i don't know what it is about this game. i'm pretty sure i've done more harm than good here.
i'll wait for a votecount to be sure but i suppose i'm voting Maki.

[Chara]

no, Kaede unvoted and Maki was at L-3 before she did.
VOTE: Maki Harukawa
second scum i've defended pointlessly? maybe. ugh.

[Chara]

Lycan, if Maki's scum, what are her partners doing right now? i need to know so i can sleep easy.

[Chara]

Voting her and asking me a question to rationalize why a mafiaso is making a losing vote

can you pretend i'm town and actually answer this?

[Chara]

if you faked half the stuff you did this game I don't think you're that good a person. But if you didn't I have no issues.

i'd like to say this, except i'm aware it's possible for someone to be scum and still have an emotional reaction to happenings in the game, so she could be scum and still not have faked it. i find it less likely, though. so town. i guess.

[Chara]

Vote Lycan after my death would be my best guess at scum
never vote chara dimond kaede

i have such an urge to say "who wants to flashwagon Lycanfire with Kaede"?

[Chara]

i have no idea where i am this game. i'm more scared of being wrong than i am of actually losing, which isn't a great look. maybe i should stop trying to read votecounts and scum ISOs and just do uninformed reads again.
Shuichi, what are you thinking right now?

[Chara]

i honestly have no good idea of your alignment right now, Maki, but i am enjoying your presence in this game. even if you end up being scum, it's good advice. my problem is usually i lose confidence and then stop trusting my own reads as the game goes on. and the thing with Kaede has made me skittish.

Kaede: even if we don't lynch Lycan to win, if he's scum then you're the one who called him. :>

[Chara]

Maki: to be clear though, it's not an apathy lynch. things just seemed to make sense with you being scum no matter how much my gut is telling me you aren't. it's not for lack of trying to find an alternative. i want to win.

VOTE: Dunnstral
i think this is the actual scum. though i'll agree with Shuichi his play this game just hasn't been good as either alignment.
1425 is weird and scummy. Dunn is independently scummy as a whole. i don't know how i got so sidetracked with everything to forget how confident i was in this originally, but that's par for the course.
disappearing today isn't scummy in a vacuum but it's not doing him any favours.

[Chara]

reading Viomi's ISO from the perspective of scum who knows she's going down to save her buddy Wicked.
it's made me happier about Dunnstral scum.
i have to sleep now but if someone like kunkstar, Shuichi, or Lycan could talk about what's been going on recently that would be wonderful for me, personally.

[Chara]

Chara can you explain why you are super sure on Dunnstral.

at this point he continues to be the only slot in the game where i can't come up with a single reason for him to be town.

[Chara]

Chara where was your sr of kaede yesterday when I sat on my hands yelling kaedescum

Also why did you hammer Wicked? + how do you feel about kunkstar(poor man's dunnstral) atm?

i was probably ignoring you or not paying attention. if it was day 2 i was barely here. and Kaede scum only started occurring to me today.
it doesn't matter, i've decided she's town. pushing her was unfun. pushing scum is usually fun, even if they AtE.

i hammered Wicked because i was bored sitting at lunch with my mother, and the cafe had wi-fi. i was reading through the game, we were talking about my future, and my mother told me to be decisive and do things for myself. so i voted him because i was curious about his flip and tired of sitting watching the game without posting.
that's about it. i was happy he flipped scum, but i didn't really think he would.

kunkstar: i'd be voting kunkstar were it not for day 1 votecounts. i would really not be surprised at all if he ended up as scum. with how this game has shaken out maybe i should completely disregard the notion that scum actually attempted to get a wagon on someone that wasn't on their team.

[Chara]

Instead now I have 2 pages of you Chara and Maki all sounding town.

Are the scum just so demotivated they're lurking it out? How are there three scum. Does someone, as Chara would put it, just fucking suck as risk-reward calculations?

this is me right now.
working theory is scum really are demotivated? acid and Wicked were independently caught early and maybe the rest of the team doesn't know what to do with it.

also re: personality: yep.

[Chara]

The above should answer you well enough as well Chara. Plainly if you are town you are getting run around by a scumkaede. Town would have to be myself/kunkstar/shuichi/dunnstral/you.

I don't see a universe where Chara isn't scum, so if we're not lynching Maki we are lynching this.

VOTE: Chara

If

Kaede (mulch) is scum, it's with Chara anyway.

so if i'm town, Kaede is scum.
if Kaede is scum, i'm... scum?
...?

Lycan where

has

your Dunnstral townread come from anyway?

[Chara]

if Maki is town and doesn't know Dunnstral's alignment, that shouldn't matter.

[Chara]

Lycan: yes. in a game where i can't make up my mind, scum were forced to bus hard, and i can see reasons for every other slot in the game to be town bar Dunnstral, Dunnstral is a fantastic vote. there's nothing to redeem that ISO like there is with Kaede. (and Maki, to a lesser extent). he doesn't even have the advantage of the otherwise-scummy kunkstar, who had the day 1 situation with Wicked.

so you're disregarding Dunnstral scum entirely based on Maki's behaviour? what if you're just wrong on her? why is Dunnstral town?
you'll have to walk me through why Diamond is relevant to Dunnstral here, because Maki has a very different relationship with those two players.

[Chara]

there

is

no end of reasons to scumread Dunnstral. that's the point of saying there's nothing town. the absence of town is scum. that's how the game works. you're one or the other.
no, he's not lock-scum to me.

And to address everyone suspecting kunkstar today, explain to me why he casts the L-1 vote for viomi with Dunn visibly wavering unless he's also scum with wicked in which case vote there first.

wouldn't it be funny if this post contained the entire scumteam?

bringing this back. relevant to you, Shuichi.

Diamond: why am i town for you?
also, kunkstar scum means that despite the day 1 town:scum ratio being 7:5, all major wagons were on scum. i guess they could just be bad, but

that

bad?

is any of that a good reason to call kunkstar town?

[Chara]

haha. not what i meant. i did mean that everyone you mentioned in that post could be scum, though. my point was sort of vague beyond that, because your post resolves itself nicely if kunkstar is scum with both Wicked and Viomi. and even better if Dunn is scum too.

at the risk of making my wording and meandering about the point even more difficult to parse, reasons for not thinking kunkstar is scum have to do with things like Wicked voting him with me on day 1, along with Maki and Dunnstral. considering what ended up happening day 1, is that really good evidence? i'm thinking no, it isn't.
i know there are 3 scum. i'm not trying to catch all of them. i'm trying to find someone who is most likely to be one of the three. that's all that's needed to win today.

[Chara]

i think scum could think the same thing there, but i do see what you mean.

kunkstar/Dunnstral + one of Diamond/Lycan/Maki? is sort of where i'm at. the latter group is a nebulous void of wanting to call them town but running out of scum so one of them must be scum, and it isn't Kaede or Shuichi.

pedit: i should be asleep too.

[Chara]

Concurrently with his Kunkstar vote, Maki made this post to Wicked, which he ignored, despite scumreading her from the early game:

I'm gonna drop this given we seem to just be in disagreement and we both got what we wanted out of this so hey win win.

that post from Maki is ending the conversation. 'i'm going to drop this'. if Wicked also wanted to drop it, he wouldn't respond to it. it's not a post that calls for a response.

[Chara]

Contemplating kicking Shuichi out of the town for shit reads. Kaede are you willing to lynch Chara?

your read on me is the bad read. Shuichi's locktowns are correct. this post has no point other than to remind me this post exists in postgame.

[Chara]

the rest of 1820 can be summed up with early-game distancing, Lycan.
kunkstar's position was weaker than acid's at the time of Wicked's vote there. acid wasn't even in danger until Mulch's crusade. i was the third vote on acid, do you remember? i called him scum and parked. the wagon continued its hold because it had 3 votes.
if i'm scum i bussed acid/Viomi to try and save Wicked. what was the gamestate like when acid was being pushed by Mulch and Michael? i don't even remember what else was on the table then, unfortunately. feels like a while ago.

[Chara]

i find it hard to believe that you're either forgetting that wicked was scum or you're trying out for the mental gymnastics

i have no idea what this means. i'm saying Maki dropping the conversation and Wicked electing not to continue based on that isn't damning evidence for them being teamed.

[Chara]

actually, Lycan, i'm going to go ahead and call Wicked's vote on kunkstar at that point irrelevant. it was page 9. there was no way he thought the wagon would go through to a lynch

[Chara]

i'm going to go to sleep.
we're doing well. we have three chances to do this right. i don't care about a perfect game anymore, it was silly to think of being disappointed with a win that wasn't a 'perfect' win.
kunkstar/Dunnstral + someone else scum.

[Chara]

when we both flip town, Lycan learns that not everyone plays mafia like a game of social chess. day 1 was a mess for scum. they misplayed on multiple fronts, thus the situation we have now, 2 points to scum's 0.
it was an early-game vote Wicked decided to pursue at the time for one reason or another. he had a long-held scumread on kunkstar. maybe he felt kunkstar's play was genuinely not good and thought it was better in the long run to address it. maybe he thought he could dismantle his wagon. maybe he thought if he

couldn't

, someone coming along later after Wicked was lynched or sacrificed would think "hey, Wicked voted kunkstar on page fucking 9, that must mean they're definitely not scum together".
night.

[Chara]

why did scum Chara vote acid, Lycan? trying to remove the weakest link to save Wicked?

[Chara]

maybe Maki and kunkstar are

both

scum, and i shouldn't be voting Dunnstral right now.

[Chara]

what i mean by the first sentence of 1834 is that assuming that scum always play optimally is like assuming

town

will. one has to account for bad decisions.

[Chara]

VOTE: kunkstar
Maki and Dunn aren't scum together, therefore if i lynch outside of them and outside of my lock-town pool (that's Diamond and kunkstar) it'll hit scum.
it fails if they're scum together. it fails if Lycan is a deep wolf. that's about it.

[Chara]

what you should be asking me is why doesn't scum chara and scumpals promote town kunkstar over scum acid. can't you suggest a scenario where scum cut their losses that way and kills acid at night? or are you unwilling to ask that in place of your question because it was attempted and failed?

because i didn't consider it, i guess. i think kunkstar is scum, thinking about it in a way that says "why didn't we as scum try and take down scum kunkstar instead"

does

rely on mental gymnastics, for me. because i have to think of that, while also thinking if i'm scum, kunkstar must be town. maybe that's easy for you to do but my mind just won't think of those things by itself.

if trying to get me to agree with your methods and saying it's scummy to use a different method is trying to get me on your side, i don't know what to tell you. so interacting with town Lycan means i can't have a dissenting opinion or be wrong about scum? great.
from my perspective, you've been scumreading me for reasons i've had to put work in just to understand. with Wicked's scumflip a lot of that did make sense. i didn't have the opportunity of knowing Wicked's alignment.
i did have the opportunity of seeing acid's obvscum response to Mulch and Michael, which it doesn't seem like you did. that's why i was confident.
Kaede, Dunnstral, Maki, and myself all townread Wicked. all 4 aren't scum. there was something about Wicked that made him look town. that should be a simple fact at this point.

it's frustrating and disheartening to be told i'm not putting in any effort here.

[Chara]

the problem begins day 2, when, as it turns out, nothing changes for wicked, because lynching acid/viomi first doesn't harm the continuity of my reads if it flips scum. all it does is make me wonder why people refused a good wagon in favor of a shit one. so yes, scum chara votes acid there to save wicked.

why do we try to save acid/Viomi there at all if it doesn't change anything with Wicked? why do we flip Viomi, who was called town by yourself and Wisdom, instead of Wicked, who was now the liability?

[Chara]

You know that feeling up "oh you tr everyone" yeah

Why do you sr me?

can you tell me anything about Maki scum? it would be more useful if it's not meta, if that's possible.
and why do you feel so detached today?

would you do a kunkstar wagon?

[Chara]

Maki/kunkstar + someone else?
or Dunn/kunkstar someone else?
i guess the former makes more sense with respect to kills, and kunkstar's positioning today. the second doesn't really make sense. s

this day probably would've been easier if Maki's tone wasn't so town.
i might end up moving there.

[Chara]

Viomi was a Wicked counterwagon Wisdom and Lycan both called town because it was a Wicked counterwagon.
calling kunkstar town because he was also a Wicked counterwagon isn't good enough.

[Chara]

i don't feel like explaining it right now but i'll vote Maki or kunkstar today, and that's about it. the good news is if one of them escapes the other will still be alive.

[Chara]

You have callee her out for suspecting Kunk on day 1.

Later, she told you to vote Dunnstral over Kunk.

At the same time, Maki and Kunk sit on the Dunnstral wagon.

I'm asking you because I want to know how you are rationalizing it. You should have an opinion.

Maki and kunk being a possible team while Dunn/Kunk looks less so for reasons is why either Maki or kunk are a wagon i'm happy with now.

[Chara]

i called viomi town at l-1 because i was on during deadline and was either going to hammer or watch the hammer, but i wanted everyone to know how ridiculous lynching acid/viomi first was.

viomi wasn't called town because it was a counterwagon. viomi was called town because it was a scum counterwagon.

yes, so ridiculous. good god, we lynched one scum before the other scum. awful. horrible. bad play. acid wasn't scummy at all.

never before have i had to argue the scum motivation or lack thereof of having to wrench the lynch away from one scum to hit a different scum, and i hope never to do so again. i've decided to blame the scumteam for playing scummy in two different and exciting ways, one of which was caught by one half of vocal town, and the other by the other half, thus leading them to tear each other apart in an unexpected and unintentional division scum certainly weren't going for but were given the gift of anyway.

pedit: not much, honestly. if you

hammered

kunk i might have some feelings.