Mini 1974: Pokemon Sapphire Mafia [Game over]

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Marquis
You must be eliminated because you are a threat to me.

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Aeronaut
You must be eliminated because you are a threat to me.

[Cheetory6]

Right now you're voting me, so I have determined that you are the bigger threat. If Marquis starts voting me then he is the bigger threat.

[Cheetory6]

Donut vote me

[Cheetory6]

okay just have to stay cool

[Cheetory6]

If it makes you feel better I think he might be scum too.
Maybe we could work together and lynch LUV instead of lynching me?
(:

[Cheetory6]

but I'm convinced enough of that

[Cheetory6]

There is no good answer to your question.
I'm honestly concerned that if I answer it I might draw attention to myself.

[Cheetory6]

I'm convinced enough of that

What gave it away?

[Cheetory6]

You guys r slow.

i) Aero - why did you decide that I'm town?
ii) LUV - Aero stole Marquis' idea of switching wagons from me to you.

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: LUV

[Cheetory6]

Lol.

[Cheetory6]

Why are you and Aero misrepresenting Marquis?

Are you sure this is the interpretation you want to go with here?

[Cheetory6]

good catch, friend

[Cheetory6]

There was literally no idea presented.

Absolutely no hesitation in spite of nobody else seeing it that way?

[Cheetory6]

We caught scum on Page 1 GG.

If LUV is scum this is probably a good place to start D2.

[Cheetory6]

We caught 2 scum on Page 3 GG.
:v

[Cheetory6]

Kind of wish Marquis had just hammered.

[Cheetory6]

I bet.

I mean it's either really pathetic that you actually believe that Aeronaut and I are scum making up inane shit to justify scumreading you in the first 3 pages [especially when literally everyone else understands what we meant]
or
it's kind of pathetic that you thought it was a valid way to make it look like you were faking a thought process here.
S:

[Cheetory6]

If LUV is scum and we lose the game it's entirely your fault now.

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: aero

[Cheetory6]

Are you or are you not calling Aero and I both scum?

If you think this:

Absolutely no hesitation in spite of nobody else seeing it that way?

Nope.

This is surely cut and dry no?

[Cheetory6]

So, Aero voted you for made up reasons and because I defended those made up reasons, I'm also scum.
But basically everyone else in the game has also implied by omission and by also being willing to wagon you that they also think the reasons were fine.
Why is Chara not scum for also explaining it?
Why is everyone on the wagon also not scum for more or less understanding the reasoning?

Bonus points for using actual sentences to lay out your thought process, because frankly it's kind of hard to believe you aren't just playing obtuse on purpose because you know what you're saying is fake.

LUV/Marquis/Wisdom, 2017

You're actually pitching Marquis as scum here?

[Cheetory6]

He's blaming me instead of Wis for derailing the LUV wagon

This is a weak assessment of what Marquis has been saying and I feel like you should know that/know better:

Getting more of a sense of scum bloodlust hyperness than just being happy to be town/play with friends/quote]

Like even ignoring wisdom townread I'm really just not a fan of this progression. It feels leading or manufactured beforehand

Wording it another way, it feels less like town genuine read progression and more like scum!Aeronaut seeing Wisdom start to get pressured between page 3/4 and being like "ok let's create a realistic looking series of post leading up to voting him"

But as usual when I'm town my described reasoning for a scumread falls short because overall this read is more tonereading on someone I've played with often before, less of a concrete basis

Point 1 is that he feels like your tone is off.
Point 2 is that he doesn't believe your Wisdom push/that it feels manufactured.
Point 3 is an elaboration on point 2 with a caveat of him saying that he feels like your tone is off.

The posts following are him saying that it feels like you're pushing scum theater.

There really isn't anything at all about him blaming you for the wagon fizzling, so you reaching for that feels like you're not really reading what he's saying, which kind of makes me feel like you're not actually seriously trying to parse him?

I don’t know why others did so but there are only so many scum in this setup.

Ah so, whoever smelt it first dealt it, sort of deal.
Gotcha.

[Cheetory6]

There's also that Marquis is kind of objectively super town right now.
I know he's pushing you so maybe OMGUS is a factor, but you kneejerking a scumread there is pretty weak.

[Cheetory6]

I guess?
Just seems kind of weird that you're focusing on that rather than on him saying that he's confidently reading your tone, given that's what he said he was actually confident about in terms of his push.
He literally follows that explanation up by saying that it's mostly tone and that he doesn't like his explanation, you literally have to cut that part of it out in order to make the point you're trying to make here.

P-Edit: He's saying that you and LUV is scum theater.

[Cheetory6]

Aeronaut begins wagon on LUV, his scumbuddy. Page 2.
Aeronaut points out that LUV has contributed nothing of value.
Wisdom, townie, jumps off LUV wagon.
Aeronaut then berates Wisdom for jumping off Aeronaut's scumbuddy's wagon

+Aeronaut then also leaves LUVwagon.

Again, I feel like you're partially focusing moreso on lesser details than on the fact that Marquis is saying he's reading your tone as scum.
If you don't think Marquis would be feeling this way about your tone here if he were town, you could/should be focusing moreso on that, because from where I'm standing it more or less comes across as you picking at sidepoints instead of the meat and potatoes of what he's saying.

@wisdom point: if he's opened the game thinking LUV is also scum, then he's probably going to be able to see a connection between the two of you easier than most other players unless something directly contradicts it.

[Cheetory6]

I'm hard

I mean, I would probably be considered more town right now were it not for my hardslip in 40

[Cheetory6]

I just want to point out that if anyone knows how susceptible I am to being white knighted it's Aero and Cheet

My scumgame is terrible, you're fine.

I thought it was pretty clear that I left for Wis to answer me, which he didn't.

But you can understand how that makes it less easy to disqualify you as a LUVpartner by your own argument, which is the point I'm trying to get at, not that it means you're scum with LUV.

I'm not focusing on that because how do I refute "Your tone is scum!". There's nothing to talk about there. If he wants the believe that, then sure, but what am I supposed to say, "No, my tone is not scum"?

There is no world in which "he has a scum tone" is a meat and potatoes argument.

Do you think townMarquis could/would read your tone so far this game as scummy?
Because I think that's frankly a more interesting/important question.

And Aero, I'll be frank, you seem really on edge.

[Cheetory6]

There's just a lot of engagement/gamedriving energy that I would associate with a townMarquis who's trying to get things done, rather than a scumMarquis trying to manipulate things.
Is that not coming across for you too?
I honestly thought it was obvious.
Lol

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Kaede
My gut wants this the most atm.

if you're town i'd rather you focus on finding scum instead of this ridiculous hill you've decided to die on.
if you're scum, keep going, i suppose.

I mean, guy said he thinks our reactions afterwards were scummy too.
Apparently there's more to it than that.
I don't really think there's anything to be engaged from whatever mental gymnastics he has to do to justify himself on this point. I certainly don't feel confident that he's scum anymore after engaging him on it anyway.
:/

Chara town

And me too.
):

[Cheetory6]

Might be townLUV because of how willing he is to commit to something that would be entirely embarrassing here as scum.
Heh.

[Cheetory6]

Oh Creature might be scum too actually.

[Cheetory6]

We could wagon Kaede so we can talk about wagoning Kaede instead of talking to LUV about mental gymnastics?

P-Edit: Moreso that he's making himself look really ridiculous from where I'm standing.
And I'm not sure if he'd be willing to do so without being town who thinks they're right about something.

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Aeronaut

????

And you guys are letting this get away?

Friendly reminder that this isn't town.

Whoever joins the Cheetory6 certified wagon will get to join an MS.Paint choo choo train!
Weeee!

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Creature
I'll still draw a choo choo train picture sometime this weekend because it would be rude not to.

[Cheetory6]

creature is a scum.

[Cheetory6]

[Cheetory6]

Luca you should join the Creature wagon.
It's a great one.

[Cheetory6]

Who's scum, creature?
Why are you voting for nobody?

[Cheetory6]

are you scared that scum might dogpile kokichi if you put them to L-5?

[Cheetory6]

No, but I found it interesting to ask about Kokichi.

Did you really?
Kind of seems like you didn't get anything from it tbh.
What about Kokichi makes them worth asking about over Kaede? Only reason you're giving for not wanting to vote there is just that they're doing things, is Kokichi not doing things?
Why not ask about something specific in their ISO?

[Cheetory6]

I know im not scum, if you supposedly have meta, then you saying that im scum by meta is BS.

Do you think your opening here matches your typical town play?

[Cheetory6]

There were a lot of people who thought your opening here was really stiff/stilted [myself included].
You don't think someone with experience with your meta could think that based on your early-game approach?

[Cheetory6]

Dunno, I generally dont pay attention to what I do, don't do in every single game based on alignment, the only thing I know is that when im scum I lose motivation to play over time due to the fact that I hate being scum. Anything else im not really aware of as I try to do the same thing every game regardless.

If you feel generally kind of unaware about your own meta, why is Kokichi scummy for potentially reading you wrong at the start of the game based on meta?

It doesn't strike you as possible that your opening here comes across differently from your midgame townplay? [which is generally what people tend to remember]

It's when they arrive pretty early to the game. They can coordinate the first wagons and get away for a bit. Hence why I call headstart.

Who are the scum who got the headstart?

[Cheetory6]

Seems like he was just scumreading Luca more, hence he wasn't voting you.
Can you go into more detail about why you think it's more likely he's scum fishing for options vs town trying to sort?

[Cheetory6]

They must all be town.

[Cheetory6]

I don't think

I

get the point.

[Cheetory6]

N_M.
Why is your vote not on Creature?

[Cheetory6]

Have you never compared side by side a Creature towngame vs a Creature scumgame?

[Cheetory6]

ur gut reads r scummy
(:

[Cheetory6]

We should lynch Creature.

[Cheetory6]

Claim claim claim claim claim
claim
claim
claim
claim

[Cheetory6]

Someone should give actual intent.
He's flipping scum.

[Cheetory6]

"I have no scumreads but the wagon is shitty"
-definitely townCreature

[Cheetory6]

omg double intent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the best day ever

[Cheetory6]

Is it possible
that not_mafia
only plays the game
when he is actually mafia?

[Cheetory6]

I'm gonna need a citation on this.

[Cheetory6]

Did you think Creature was flipping scum?

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Aero

[Cheetory6]

I'm pretty sure Kaede is town.

[Cheetory6]

Am I the only one who's felt like Luca's been setting up n_m off of Creature's lynch since the moment he voted Creature?
:/

[Cheetory6]

Luca where are you at on Aeronaut/LUV?

[Cheetory6]

Actually sure
VOTE: LUV

[Cheetory6]

Eh sure, Luca can be town.
If LUV fizzles I could probably get behind N_Mwagon.

@LUV

, are you still scumreading me? Are you voting Aero for the same reasons as yesterday?

[Cheetory6]

No. Don’t think you would bus Creature there.

Can you point out Aero reactions that you feel make him scum and talk about why?

[Cheetory6]

Sometimes obvious things can be scum. A difference in handling one player from another player is a pretty strong indication of either strong difference in read or external factors and in this case it kind of points towards external factors.

P-Edit: Well, he's been pretty consistently pushing the same point since the start of the game and hasn't been as actively involved in the game as I would expect him to be as town. If you help me sort LUV I'll help you spearhead N_M wagon afterwards if we decide he's town?

To me, a N_M wagon will probably not give useful pressure as he's more likely to just continue giving non-answers, non-detailed answers or just clam up until we either lynch him or move on.
I feel like LUV is a little more sortable at this stage.

[Cheetory6]

It's kind of hard to gauge because he hasn't been around much.

I think just the general lack of engagement with the game is worrying. I would expect him to maybe be pushing things a little more aggressively as town? Maybe saying that other wagons or options are bad. Instead he just kind of flopped onto the Kaede wagon for really weird reasons, especially since it was being driven by me when he thought I was scum at the time.

I think if he starts talking more I'll be able to sort him. And if he doesn't talk much at all, it's probably just scumLUV.

[Cheetory6]

Do you have a timeline of when we can expect to see more of you in the game in general?

[Cheetory6]

Also if you do have a sec, any kind of explanation of your thought process behind the Kaede vote would be nifty

[Cheetory6]

Town. But my son was looking forward to a picture of train that has not been delivered.

It's coming don't you worry.

[Cheetory6]

how dare you

[Cheetory6]

It's too bad I got all of this towncred off of it, so now you'll never be able to get me lynched.
>:D

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: not_mafia
Luca it's happening!

[Cheetory6]

why is LUV scum.

[Cheetory6]

Let's not do that again pls and ty.

Aero where you at, I need you to start being town please.

[Cheetory6]

Cheet, still wondering about this:

Honestly don't remember my headspace 100% at the time, but I believe I was somewhat buying that LUV could just be disengaged town and n_m's selective wagoning felt scummier than any other specific thing at the time.

[Cheetory6]

Oh and in terms of my reads, Aero/LUV/Kokichi are my sortpile for today.
Would prefer that we don't end the day early again.

P-Edit: Marquis was also obvMasons with Wisdom.

[Cheetory6]

I'm not voting anyone for awhile today. But if I were, it'd be smocaine.

Why.

[Cheetory6]

Gutwise I don't really think Smocaine's scum here tbh.

[Cheetory6]

Kaede is a really weak townlean atm. I feel like I'm potentially underestimating her a little too much atm.
:/

[Cheetory6]

I mean, tbh Aero, on some level I feel like you're playing a clean and artificial game, where Smocaine looks completely and obviously terrible.
Can you guess which I'm more likely to think is scum trying to win coming off a Creature scumlynch on D1?

[Cheetory6]

Like, yes, I'm opening a can of worms here, but what exactly is the motivation for scumSmocaine to lolHammer there?
His last stance on n_m was a townlean.
He's not even pretending that he was scumreading him now.

I totally get that it's possible that he's scum who just doesn't give a fuck, but I'm kind of skeptical of the strength of your read on Smocaine here.

[Cheetory6]

That he's a dumb.

[Cheetory6]

You were in NY180.
Excuse me if I'm a little hesitant to trust you saying that you should exclusively lynch dumb players.

[Cheetory6]

You really didn't need to hammer there.

[Cheetory6]

Aero, who's partners with Smocaine if he's scum?

[Cheetory6]

Oh and while you're at it, talk me through your Marquis read on D2.

[Cheetory6]

Sure.
The hammer was still pretty bad and if you're town you sabotaged us pretty hard given that you're 100% gonna get compromise lynched at or before endgame.

[Cheetory6]

Luca, Cheet, and

Aero are town

.

Can I get some words about this?

[Cheetory6]

"Who is least town in the game?" Cheetory6 asked the game.
Before he could even get a response, he revealed that it was nothing more than a rhetorical question:
VOTE: Kokichi

[Cheetory6]

Check that ISO.
Pretty much everyone else in the game I feel has done something that makes me feel uncertain as to them being scum.

Kokichi has nothing and also has some also made really awkward posts like this:

What. How did Mafia know Marquis was the partner? I thought it was Luca yesterday. This sucks.

Read this post.
Then read it again.
Then read it again.
Then vote Kokichi.

[Cheetory6]

UNVOTE:
Kokichi I want a full readlist with reasoning in 24 hours.

[Cheetory6]

If Kokichi and LUV start being town then I'll resort Smocaine.
hbd

[Cheetory6]

Why would you cop Marquis?

[Cheetory6]

Also pretty weird to protect someone on N1 over copping someone.

[Cheetory6]

If you think I'm mafia, vote me. I COULD be mafia, but I'm not. It's not a lie!

Votecount 3.02

Kokichi Oma (3):

Cheetory6, Aeronaut, Kaede Akamatsu

:V
Sure thing.

[Cheetory6]

Why would you use the doc before the cop check

[Cheetory6]

It's smocaine and Aero. Put it to the bank. Don't have time to go through things.

Replace out?

[Cheetory6]

Like, seriously, if you're town and you don't have time to play the game and we're going to lynch you, then just replace out and save us the trouble of having to blind lynch your slot due to you not having played the game.

[Cheetory6]

The claim's so bad that it almost feels town.
:/

[Cheetory6]

Have you played with scumKokichi before, Chara?

[Cheetory6]

It might be a terrible claim for scum, but it also doesn't make any sense from town.

Nah this about lines up with my expectations of townKokichi's PR play.

[Cheetory6]

to give the impression of careful scumhunting.

This is an amazingly concise summation of my feels about Aero this game.

My biggest hesitation on Aero is that he's been so active and responsive which I think would be hard for scumHim, but I'm kind of wary of dropping reads because of productive posting when I've let a few good scumleads go because of that line of thinking.

[Cheetory6]

Also Chara thank you for showing up again and being really town.
c:

[Cheetory6]

I'm really tempted to wagon Aero right now.
The spin onto Chara isn't working for me.
:/

[Cheetory6]

I don't feel like you're properly engaging Chara's points.
And this isn't the first time I've felt like you've done this during the course of this game.
I haven't really believed the way you've switched from read to read. The jump from person to person feels clunky like you NEED justification in order to start pushing someone, instead of just feeling like someone is scum.
I don't feel like you actually believe that Chara is scum, or that Smocaine was scum or that Kokichi was scum or that Marquis was scum.
It strongly feels like you're just dropping reasoning that you feel will look genuine to people, rather than actually trying to parse and find scum here.

I believe a lot more of what Chara's putting down here in these last few posts than anything you've done this game.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory, please tell me how Chara showing up and posting a lynch list, half of which are his townreads, with no information otherwise is town.

Town isn't necessarily rational?
Town regularly changes its mind with new information.
I believe Chara's flip on you given that I'm also hard scumreading you right now based on your recent posting.

This is literally the third time you've done this "how the fuck is this person town" shtick with me and it's starting to get old.
Marquis was ridiculously town when he was alive and you didn't see it.
Chara's being really town right now and you're not seeing it.
You've pushed Smocaine/Kokichi on slick logical reasoning that doesn't seem real to me.

Sorry if I'm wrong and you're actually that frustrated with my play here, but man it just does not read that way to me right now.

[Cheetory6]

Like, if you want a hill to die on, push Chara if you want, but you're getting lynched over Chara 9 times out of 10 here.

[Cheetory6]

There's a definite difference between not wanting to lynch someone as of right now and saying that it has a pool of 4 people that it thinks are scum.
Again, sure you want to keep pushing this?

[Cheetory6]

Pretty obvious implication that Chara isn't townreading you anymore.
Again again, sure you want to keep pushing this?

[Cheetory6]

"and saying that it has a pool of 4 people that it thinks scum are in."**

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Aero
You might as well start trying to push me as scum here because there's very little chance I'm not following through on this.

[Cheetory6]

It's not a misunderstanding, Aero's scum trying to justify the stance instead of genuinely trying to parse you.

[Cheetory6]

it was pre-wisdom flip

[Cheetory6]

Luca, Cheet, and

Smocaine

are very town

Honestly not as sure about the bolded anymore.

[Cheetory6]

wait, why?

Smocaine/Aero feels plausible to me.
Especially with ^^^^

[Cheetory6]

iuno aero, it's cause I'm scum right?

[Cheetory6]

doesn't use town logic

You're not town.
Seriously.
Just say whatever you want.
And I'm getting you lynched.
Make a fuss out of me not answering questions.
Whatever you feel you need to do.
But you're getting lynched here.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory6, you think scum!aero pushes Marquis as scum the way he did given that scum knew who the mason was? I don't remember his posting about the slot and couldn't be arsed to figure out when/where. If it was pre-wisdom flip then nevermind.

VOTE: Aeronaut

Aero, still think Cheetory6 wouldn't bus Creature here?

This is also a baffling transition.

[Cheetory6]

BUT WAIT
AERO
HOW CAN YOU BE SCUMREADING ME
WHEN YOU WERE TOWNREADING ME BEFORE?
Almost as if your Chara read is complete fucking nonsense.

P-Edit: Yeah man I figured that putting you and Smocaine as partners would be an easy way to chain a lynch on Smocaine after you apparently flip town.
Lol.

[Cheetory6]

i) Fucking hilariously bad misrep of my play today.
If aero is scum you're literally flatlining tomorrow no questions asked.

ii) You're bussing all your partners, don't you know?

[Cheetory6]

Like, unless you think me saying that you're getting lynched at or before endgame was me being anything other than realistic?
I'm 100% expecting to be dead long before you're even on the table as a lynch.
I thought that implication was pretty clear.

P-Edit: Okay, 1v1 me and Aero. Lol.

[Cheetory6]

Can actually maybe see how Smocaine might have seen that as me saying I wanted to eventually lynch him.
Aero's 100% flipping scum every time here though.

[Cheetory6]

Why are you trying to convince me when you're sure I'm scum?
Lmao

P-Edit: It looked weird to me that you were voting Aero while also more or less floating me as an option for scum here?

[Cheetory6]

Right, that's why it's a question phrased at me.

[Cheetory6]

I've never implied I should be townread for the Creature lynch.
I just think it's frankly obvious based on my play beyond that.

[Cheetory6]

... And? Why are you just sitting here arguing semantics? You could be making a case on me.

I'm just so confident I can mislynch you.
Oh wait no I mean lynch you.
Dang.
I'm just so dang scummy aren't I.

Like, seriously, you picked such a shit person to 1v1 with as scum here. You literally never win this ever.

[Cheetory6]

Lol.

[Cheetory6]

Bah.
Okay. I'm pretty antsy right now because I feel like Aero's caught scum, but I've been wrong before and I'm not infallible and I shouldn't be a dick in case I'm wrong:
Creature is probably the easiest person on the site to read.
He can't make convincing posts as scum and his towngame is relatively relentless.
Anyone with experience with his town and scumgame can attest.

Yes, I could be scum who knew he was a liability in the longrun.
I've been relentlessly invested in this game beyond that though and my scumgame doesn't have this kind of range.
Pretty much every scumgame I've had, I've had to coast it out to some degree because I can't match the frenetic energy I usually bring to the game as town.

The entire burden of proficiency for me being scum here is that you don't think I would stop engaging you when I think you're caught scum and that you think I'm good at scum.
You really think that's a good case?
Because there's a fuck ton of shit in my ISO that telegraphs my towngame.
I can't play like this as scum.

I don't believe a single thing you've done this game.
Marquis felt similarly.
I feel like that says a lot more than just me apparently having a good scumgame.

[Cheetory6]

Was wrong about smocaine, he's town as shit.

What's your read on Smocaine now?

[Cheetory6]

Luv is lurker as scum.
He could also be busy.

[Cheetory6]

Luv is lurker as scum.
He could also be busy.

I don’t lurk as scum.

Lurkier*
My phone's autocorrect is mean.

[Cheetory6]

Weird comment to make to someone scum reading aero.
Is Character supposed to find that compelling for some reason?

[Cheetory6]

Thanks phone.

[Cheetory6]

I don't want to be cocky but that does honestly sound really right ATM.

[Cheetory6]

Well, charas being pretty reasonable about engaging you on it?

[Cheetory6]

So it's unreasonable to think you're scum.
And if anyone does fuck the whole game and fuck your reads basically?

[Cheetory6]

Laser was asking you questions too.
Seems a little dishonest to just hone in the one thing.
Also seems kind of dishonest to make this big of a fuss on aero when you're admitting that you barely recall half his iso./interactions.

[Cheetory6]

Cool.
Dont sign up for another game with me if you're town here please.

[Cheetory6]

Don't play against your wincon and I won't care?
If a few people saying you're scum makes you hammer a townreading then I think you need to figure out what your priorities are supposed to be in a game.

[Cheetory6]

I'm saying that if you're town you're playing against your wincon by hammering someone you think is town.
Has nothing to do with my read on aero. I just think it's really fucking bad play.

[Cheetory6]

Could just not do that?

[Cheetory6]

-.-

kokichi I swear to god if you're town and you're making posts like that.

[Cheetory6]

har har.

[Cheetory6]

Idk maybe the three dead mason pile should give you a clue.

[Cheetory6]

Is this the part where you become shocked again because you forgot there were dead masons?

[Cheetory6]

I would have said Kaede if Aero had flipped scum.
Maybe still.
I really wish I'd just been shot last night.

[Cheetory6]

I've been trying to think of why scumKaede hammers.
And I think it's only if she's scum with Luca.

[Cheetory6]

Kokichi's role kind of makes sense as the last puzzle piece for town power I think?

[Cheetory6]

3 masons plus something that can protect and not be able to directly confirm them feels like an okayish setup?
I'm trying my best not to be mean here Smocaine, but your vote really sucks.
:/

[Cheetory6]

Why am I scum?
Lay it out for me.

Talk at me about Kaede's reactions posthammer.
Are you reading those as real?

[Cheetory6]

mad guilt over being toxic scum.

Don't really think her play could be classified as toxic scum this game?
The insinuation is that, as town here, she would feel shitty about the quickhammer because it's antiwincon, and that because of that and PMYLO, she doesn't think she should play anymore.
I'm not really sure how that makes you feel like that excludes her being scum here? Given that the issue would be her being town here having done what she's done? If that makes sense?

Does her coming in with an indignant attitude today really make sense to you as someone who implied that they felt bad about the hammer?

[Cheetory6]

I'm admittedly being pretty lazy with the Luca/Kaede tie right now, but I remember feeling like Luca's Kaede vote timing felt weird and could plausibly be scum playing for the endgame.
I also just don't know why Kaede hammers there unless she feels her scummate can carry her afterwards.

[Cheetory6]

Guess it's also possible that Kaede just felt overly threatened by the momentum shifting towards her.
I might be underthinking that.

[Cheetory6]

I remember feeling like Luca's Kaede vote timing felt weird and could plausibly be scum playing for the endgame.

I think the latter is what was moreso kicking around in my brain and I may have just padded the thought on a whim to try to make it sound less like fanciful gutfeels?
Like, in terms of optimal scumplay, I just felt like it would make sense for you to think like distancing on Kaede would be the best move to make when you're generally being townread, especially since there wasn't general sentiment for switching off Aeronaut at the time.
Kaede's entry here just kind of fed into that thought process.
But yeah, I'm honestly just underplaying and I probably just need to take a step back and actually put some effort into ISOdiving instead of following my gut.

I honestly didn't even really take the time to try to read and parse whether I actually think your play here is scummy and instead just went with a kneejerk theory.
:/

[Cheetory6]

I'd be fine with Smocaine too

Words about this.

I'm okay with this.

Words about this.

[Cheetory6]

and then only actually votes me when i vote LUV.

So you think LUV/Luca scumteam?

[Cheetory6]

Need to replace out.

[Cheetory6]

Guess I'm staying since sick me decided not to bold things and Micc was unsure.

Majority of this playerlist needs to either commit to sitting down and reading the game again, reading ISOs again or replacing out.
Pretty much Luca is the only person who's even really trying at this point.

I'm fucked with work today and tomorrow, but I guess I'm wasting some free time this weekend reading mafia because sure.

Tempted to say never lynching Smocaine/Luca because they make me feel less sad than the rest of the playerlist. Lol.

[Cheetory6]

I guess Smocaine is also trying with questions, that's unfair.
I think he probably needs to reread too.

[Cheetory6]

Done ISOdives on everyone but Luca.

Laser is town and I owe him a train.

Kokichi is also probably town. 650 sticks out like a sore thumb super hard and is by far the most awkward post Kokichi made, which kind of makes sense as someone who is trying to hide information into a post. Kokichi opens D1 with a really strong push for Luca and then completely drops it D2. Him thinking that Luca might be a mason is honestly kind of believable? Which makes the Marquis kill seem a little less likely unless you think Kokichi is the type to plan that far ahead. His targets/claim for his PR just don't really make sense coming from scum and I can buy the strength of the role in the context of the full setup.

@Kokichi

, one thing though, you've said that you thought Smocaine was scum for being impulsive with the hammer, can you explain why you never responded to him about the hammer in Alisae's game?

Smocaine is also probably town, but I'm less confident about it. The hammer on n_m and subsequent admission of townleaning him is just so bad that it doesn't feel like it could be scum having just come out of a day one scumlynch. Him having just lolhammered someone in Alisae's game also kind of lines up with this in terms of impulsiveness. Have some more thoughts on this, but holding onto them for now.

@Smocaine

, can I get some examples of you lolhammering as town before? Can you also you give me some thoughts on my Kokichi townread? Also also, wrt your theory on LUV with Creature, do you think that Creature puts stock in his ability to manipulate the gamestate as scum?

If Kaede is scum, I'm currently leaning that it's with LUV. Will elaborate on more after Luca dive if I still feel like that's the case. Kaede's hammer when the momentum was moving towards her is probably the worst looking thing in the game right now.

@momo

, you need to read the game.

Also:

Was there anything pointing to a third mason existing, or do you think they wanted to kill Chara?

Found it:

Oh, Chara is confirmed town. Everyone knows you can't say you've rolled town if you didn't!

This is actually true tho, no lie

[Cheetory6]

@Kokichi, one thing though, you've said that you thought Smocaine was scum for being impulsive with the hammer, can you explain why you never responded to him about the hammer in Alisae's game?

[Cheetory6]

@Smocaine

,

can I get some examples of you lolhammering as town before?

Can you also you give me some thoughts on my Kokichi townread? Also also, wrt your theory on LUV with Creature, do you think that Creature puts stock in his ability to manipulate the gamestate as scum?

Think beyond Kaede's hammer on Aero, there's also that I feel like a lot of the outbursts Kaede's made this game have come across as kind of manipulative in nature:
i) Refusing to play the game as long as Wisdom was pushing her.
ii) "I dont have the energy to deal with all of you at this point. If you wanna lynch me then go ahead, my reads arent changing."
iii) Refusing to vote Creature because Luca called her gut reads scummy.
iv) Obviously there's the hammer and subsequent reaction.
v) Refusing to play the game at the start of today.

What I want to do at this point is cross reference across Perpetual Mylo and maybe 1-2 other games if I can muster up the energy and see whether this is something that Kaede has been resorting to regularly as scum or if this is just something that she's been doing in general as of late.

From where I'm standing, there's just an element of her play that strikes me as conveniently emotional when it needs to be in a way that doesn't necessarily seem real. Part of it is that I think I tend to associate frustrated townKaede with disengaged townKaede and I haven't really gotten the impression that she hasn't been following along very closely this entire time.

Also, I remembered that Kaede's scumgame isn't exactly weak. Just because she's posting a lot and staying engaged doesn't mean that she's town.

Still need to ISOdive Luca. Tried to yesterday and my eyes started glazing over lol. Just wanted to get these feels on the table first.

[Cheetory6]

@Luca

, can I get your general thoughts on how you feel about bussing and a general description of what you feel like your tendency is to bus in general? Will be diving a game or two at some point to corroborate your claims ftr.

Am done the Luca ISOdive, will talk about thoughts after I get answers.

Onto metadive things on Kaede.

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Kaede
I think this is scumKaede from meta too.

[Cheetory6]

L-1 ftr.

[Cheetory6]

Votecount 1.05

Kaede Akamatsu (5):

Luca Blight, Cheetory6, Marquis, Lil Uzi Vert, Smocaine

Luca Blight (4):

Kokichi Oma, Not_Mafia, Chara, Creature

Kokichi Oma (2):

Wisdom, Kaede Akamatsu

Wisdom (1):

Aeronaut

Not_Mafia (1):

LaserGuy

Not Voting (0):

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 votes to Lynch.

The deadline for Day One is in (expired on 2017-12-27 15:30:00).

[Cheetory6]

Why

[Cheetory6]

Why is this the first time you've mentioned her since Christmas?

[Cheetory6]

Yeah it's stupid for me to be confused why you're townreadng Kaede when you haven't mentioned her in 12 days.
Fucking moron.
Literally all game you've made your thought process impossible to follow and you have the nerve to get riled up over the most basic of fucking questions when Kaede is about to get lynched? Get your head out of your ass and if you think Kaede is town fucking explain it instead of being pointlessly shitty person.

[Cheetory6]

Like I did not spend all of this weekend rereading so I could have an informed opinion for you to waltz in, tell me Kaede is town and then not explain yourself.

Put your fucking legwork in or I'm going to get Kaede lynched just as much to make you feel pointless as I will because I think she's scum.

[Cheetory6]

No, I don't think Kaede is scum.

Like how fucking arrogant are you to just walk in and say "no we're not doing this" and not even give reasoning.

[Cheetory6]

UNVOTE:
Need time to think and not look at the game.

[Cheetory6]

The results suggest she's actually a rolecop.
Is the setup balanced with a scum rolecop?

I also don't want to rush the day and there's been a lot of quickhammers this game.

[Cheetory6]

Hm a role cop with my role too?

Trying not to be a dick, but are you seriously just not going to elaborate on your Kaede read?

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Kaede

[Cheetory6]

I don't really think scumKokichi bothers with trying to push you here.
Or half-assing a scumlean on me and then not following up on it. Just reads as scattered town rather than scum trying to accomplish something.
Especially when one of Kaede/LUV would be easier to push.

Can believe that Kokichi thinks that his tone gutread on you from the start of the game is a good lead and that he thinks he knows better than everyone else about Kaede without needing to elaborate on it. Doesn't really feel like scum him bothers with making so much noise/drawing so much attention to himself with so many inconsistencies and aggressive moves that would piss off me/you when he doesn't need to.

Feeling LUV/Kaede scumteam atm.

[Cheetory6]

i know some of you are against this but the time has come to start posting walls

Okay your turn now pls.

[Cheetory6]

See yeah, stuff like that doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

[Cheetory6]

I've seen townYou be frustrated over being pushed.
I really don't think this is it.

You resorted to this kind of "oh woe is me"-shtick as scum in Perpetual MYLO from what I saw. There hasn't been a convincing level of conviction from you at all this game in any push you've made. It's frankly pretty convenient that you're not willing to push or discuss reads when your lynch seems kind of inevitable.

The Aero hammer was really really bad.
And your follow-up reaction didn't feel town in a way that I think townYou would have gotten across in that situation.

Your Wisdom interactions earlygame read as really appeasy, where I think you would be more interested in sorting him or expressing your confidence level in your ability to read him as I saw in a recent towngame.

I have a reason to at least townlean everyone that isn't you/LUV and the interactions between you/LUV aren't disqualifying you as partners in my eyes.

Your latest posts dismissing everything I've said as just me being irrational and scumreading you regardless of what you do is baffling considering you're not even playing the game at this point. What am I supposed to townread you off of? There's literally nothing that's even protown, let alone worth townleaning?

There's just so much there that I'm just not really interested in engaging you on AtE. If you want to try pushing a case on someone, I'd be willing to consider thinking harder about this, but deadline is creeping up and you're giving me no reason to not want to lynch you.

Both you and LUV can attest that you're Vanilla yes? If I'm scum why would I even bother targeting a scum mate.
Second, I hate busing my partners unless I absolutely have to, but I dont mind being bused in the slightest.
LUV and I are impossible to be scum together
Third, You do realize that after I flip green you have to lynch 2 scum back to back no?

There's too many holes in Cheet's scumteam theory, and the reason why is because I'm town. Why is he trying to go after me instead of LUV who even I support? and have done so since like D1?

i) Why would we believe that you actually targeted LUV here? You could have targeted one of the masons and now be fakeclaiming.
ii) You bussed plenty in PMYLO.
iii) Much like with the potential for being incorrect with any read, yes, I understand that the potential for being wrong is shitty.

You know it's obvious where I'm going with this anyway. So.

I'm scum because "why would you target LUV even though there's no reason for me to tell the truth about who I targeted as scum" and "I never bus even though I literally just did as scum"?

[Cheetory6]

This is going nowhere. We need to lynch. Vote Luca

If you have some kind of magical examples of Kaede's scumgame/towngame that disqualify her as scum, you need to link them, otherwise I'm going to poke Smocaine to vote Kaede until she's dead.

[Cheetory6]

so the thought process of Kaede woulnd'tdo somethinhdo is wrong?

What she said really isn't all that unethical if she were to be scum here.
You really need to let go of this point and read the rest of her play.

[Cheetory6]

Who exactly would you be unreluctantly bussing this game Kaede?
Just going to ignore everything else to make a tedious nitpick?

Cheet, why is mo’s slot town?

Tonight.

[Cheetory6]

Also, can we talk about how quaint it is that you're telling me that I'm not even trying when I just laid out a huge case on you and you're voting me for basically nothing?

[Cheetory6]

So what happens when I get home tonight and I meticulously break down why you haven't been unreluctantly bussing LUV all game?

[Cheetory6]

Like, that you're using one specific example from PMYLO and saying "OH I DIDNT BUS THIS ONE PERSON" when you regularly voted your scummates in that game is fucking absurd. And it's a straight up cop-out to act like there's no incentive to ever bus. Pull me two scumgames where you actively told your scummates that you'd rather not bus. Shouldn't be hard if you're as anti-bussing as you're implying you are.

Why am I scum Kaede? Like literally the only reason you're giving is that I'm pushing you.

[Cheetory6]

Glad that you're just ignoring what I'm saying/asking you.
If you're generally anti-bussing, pull examples of you expressing that you're anti-bussing in other games.
Or link games that illustrate that you're generally anti-bussing.

Just saying "I DO NOT LIKE BUSSING" isn't exactly the most compelling argument, especially since it's not even the biggest reason I'm calling you scum right now.

[Cheetory6]

But sure keep moving the goalposts to try to illustrate some picture of me trying to twist your words so that I look like scum instead of actually engaging me.
Really convincing shit.

[Cheetory6]

I'm lying even though you've admitted that the game I looked at, you bussed in? Even with your explanation that "that game was different", that's absolute garbage that you're implying I'm lying.

[Cheetory6]

Plus the bussing is literally the only thing in my wall that you addressed? Like, lol? Clearly I'm going to respond to what you're specifically responding to, even if you refuse to engage the rest of it just so that you can continue to push this really awful narrative of me lying about your meta when you clearly know that's not the case.

[Cheetory6]

The only arguments you're pushing for me being scum are
i) that I'm lying about your scum meta, which is clearly a terrible misrepresentation of me potentially not having enough meta to work with (which I've never indicated that I was coming at this with a lot of meta to work with)

and that ii) someone is snowing you, so basically just that I might be playing well as scum.

And yet you're coming at this with 100% confidence.
Yeah, pardon me if I call hard bullshit on this.

[Cheetory6]

i) You disengage from the game when you're frustrated town who doesn't give a shit anymore, you don't linger around being like "fuck this game if Wisdom is going to push me, but I'm still going to play/vote people/generally do things a few minutes later". I've expressed this point clearly several times before now and you've never addressed it.

ii) I'm not attributing it exclusively to your scumgame, but the tendency to resort to "woe is me fuck this game guilt trip guilt trip guilt trip" shit is something I saw a lot more of in PMYLO than I did in Danganropa.

iii)

Nah he's prob town.
I was also surprised in how easy Wisdom let go off me and said as much, I dont see any issue with Aeronaut pressuring Wisdom about it.

Why were you pitching this then with Wisdom if he was apparently obviously town in your books?

iv) Right, I haven't been trying at all with me having ISOdived every single player in the game, drafting up thoughts on pretty much everyone and pushing a case on someone I think is scum. It's me who hasn't been giving a shit here Kaede. Real genuine point.
Am I allowed to be like "KAEDE IS CONFIRMED SCUM BECAUSE SHE'S PLAYED WITH ME AND SHE IS CALLING ME SCUM???"?
Good to know.

Glad you also left out the part about how terrible the Aero hammer was because it's a pretty big facet of why I think you're scum right now.

P-Edit: Why would you imply I was lying then if I'm missing context? What was even the point of that?
I've literally been asking for you to give proof to me of you being reluctant to bus as scum and you instead doubled down on this "CHEETORY IS LYING HE IS SCUM" bullshit. You really expect me to believe that you're being genuine here when that was your first instinct?

[Cheetory6]

Lol.
So because I metadived your most recent scumgame and based conclusions on it in terms of how often you bussed there without potentially having all of the context of having played in that game, that means I was lying instead of missing context?

[Cheetory6]

The bussing wasn't even a point in the fucking case? I just remembered that you had bussed from when I was looking at other things? How are you still acting like bussing is a central facet when it clearly isn't from the case I wrote? You literally are just taking that I think that you/LUV are plausible partners from some awkward interactions you've had and acting liek "THAT'S WHY HE THINKS I'M SCUM HE'S A FUCKING LIAR". It's blatant misrepresentation of what I'm saying to do that.

[Cheetory6]

Like I'm clearly responding to your point that you/LUV can't be partners because you apparently "do not like to bus", which is therefore then something I was not looking at when I was originally metadiving you, as I've clearly indicated that I've already done the metadive.

[Cheetory6]

Maybe I should have just let you ML me and leave you at a LyLo without a clue.

You could also just start by pulling me 1-2 scumgames where you've indicated that you do not like to bus, instead of being petty?

[Cheetory6]

Maybe I should have just let you ML me and leave you at a LyLo without a clue.

Also kind of struggling to imagine you saying this when you're apparently still waffling on whether I'm town or scum.

[Cheetory6]

Why do you believe the doc aspect of Kokichi's role if you're speccing whether he's scum?

[Cheetory6]

Do you still think LUV is scum?