NY 213 - Game Over!

[Krazy]

Hi guys, haven't read anything yet. Good job on the maf lynch. Don't expect a vote from me tonight.

How many mafia are we expecting with this many players? 6, with 5 still alive?

[Krazy]

When is Ausuka confirmed as innocent child? Man this thread is a beast 0.o

[Krazy]

Thanks, just found that.

[Krazy]

Vote Dunnstral

Good first impression of this wagon.

I replaced Pine.

[Krazy]

Just out of curiosity why do we prefer mafia that bussed day 2 over mafia that didn't?

[Krazy]

A little surprised Gamma was on the d2 train but I could see it as a bus. I think Dunnstral is still better for today though, although I'm mostly going iso by iso to get a grip on anything in this game.

[Krazy]

Not Bad Guys:
HopKirk
Ausuka (neighbor does not confirm the buddies here right?)

First impressions bad guys:
Dunnstral
Golden Robster
Gamma Emerald
Texcat

First Impression "Maybe bad guys":
Frozen Angel
Wavemode

First impression good guys:
JarJarDrinks
Kublai Khan
Ankamius

Null first impression:
Creature
Lalendra
Tchill13
TehBrawlGuy
Vaxkiller
PenguinPower
Myloninja13
Scioness Sajj

Way too much to process all at once, but need to start somewhere.

[Krazy]

Although I don't agree with a lot of his conclusions, Andriod's day 1 townplay seemed to be genuinely pushing for scum. Admittedly even between both players in the slot there's not a lot to work with, but compared to a lot of the nulls it struck me as comparatively townish.

[Krazy]

Vote Dunnstral

Good first impression of this wagon.

I replaced Pine.

why you voting dunn if you scumread me; does it not make you feel weird that I'm voting dunn as well?

Well, I still have like 80 pages to read in context, so my first impressions still have much revision to go. But beyond that, the day after a scumflip, I would expect a fair amount of early bussing/distancing, so it doesn't really bother me at all that you're on the wagon. In a strange way it actually makes me feel like this is a better lead, since your play in relation to each other about matches what I'd expect the day after a scumflip.

[Krazy]

why would scum bus when one of their players just got lynched the previous day?

[Krazy]

Huh, I'm not actually scumreading anyone on Mylo or Lalendra atm.

Tex and Dunn are both town?

[Krazy]

Why is Golden town ninja birdie?

[Krazy]

Brawl is Tex better than Dunn?

[Krazy]

(what is 'CFD' again?)

[Krazy]

Why wait?

Vote Texcat

CHOO CHOO

[Krazy]

also feels calculated and coming from scum

if anything texcat and mylo are lynchbait through and through and you guys are pushing them with shitty intentions

Hmm, is scumrob trying to set up another mislynch tomorrow cause he knows tex is ml or is scumrob trying to avoid a railroad on his buddy?

I don't see why rob isn't best CFD but I'm still happy with cat.

[Krazy]

Yeah, that lines up!

I think you also might be higher than Dunn on my list at this point. So your displeasure is my... pleasure.

[Krazy]

I mean I was with you on the Dunn wagon and mostly all you've done is complain about other people's wagons rather than pushing it. Why is Dunn better than tex, Rob?

[Krazy]

Tchill are you sure that Tex isn't the one true party wagon to rule them all?

[Krazy]

Tchill are you sure that Tex isn't the one true party wagon to rule them all?

eww that wagon is gross af.

like even tho I'm not a fan of lynching mylo rn, at least there isn't scum dripping all over his wagon like there is for the tex wagon.

I can confidently say that Tex is town based on his wagons makeup.

When did Creature get downgraded?

[Krazy]

You've provided multiple explanations for why you TR creature. It's been one of your most consistent positions this entire game. And now that wagon is dripping with scum? Just seems like an interesting flippity floppity.

[Krazy]

Yeah I need to stop posting until I've reread the 3000s again. Apparently I went into some sort of coma after 2000 posts of this game last night.

[Krazy]

So this is the Lalendra case in full?

p sure lalendra is scum since she's making logical arguments this game. never seen town lalendra do that

VOTE: Whemestar

Or am I missing something?

vs. this --

The fact that Wheme, Lalendra, and Mylo are on PP also points towards PP town. They’re either scum joining on, or town that is being used a scum sheep votes for scum.

Wheme likely has the worst ISO in this game, to be honest. We had Wave, who I think is town, alongside the masons and Penguin being the only ones on the Wheme wagon initially when PP was picking up steam.

Have you looked at Mylo's ISO? Have you looked at ArcAngel's ISO (though it has improved somewhat with BrawlGuy's replace in)?

After yesterday I feel okay with my vote on Wheme.

I have no idea how Texcat could make that post asking about extension (not to say it looked like giving an extension would suggest answer) and then asks about Mylo.

I have this sneaking suspicion that scum is controlling this game. Perhaps it's just my bad gut. The one advantage that town has over scum is numbers. And we give up that advantage when so many players are not playing.

Yesterday when we started consolidating wagons, it looked like it was going to be either Performer or Wavemode. And then it actually ended up being Performer and Android. And today, it looked like it was going to be Penguin and Robster, but now it's looking like Penguin and Wheme. Based on this alone, I'd say Wavemode and Robster are likely scum.

This is all we get from texcat during the wheme wagon and as soon as it picks up he's gone.

idk, seems like people liked finding some other targets to me as soon as party train on texcat started. Felt like a pretty fast derailment. This makes me like it a little more.

Mylo is an active lurker but I like what he's said about Gamma. That more than I can say for cat for whom I agree with whom I'm not sure I can agree with a single read.

[Krazy]

Preliminary townreads:
1. Dunnstral

4. Golden Robster

5. Krazy
7. Kublai Khan

10. Gamma Emerald

12. Lalendra

13. Tchill13

14. Skygazer

15. JarJarDrinks
17. Ankamius
18. Texcat
19. TehBrawlGuy
20. Vaxkiller
21. Wavemode

22. PenguinPower

23. Myloninja13
24. Scioness Sajj

How the f is gamma a tr

[Krazy]

Is that forced or do you have a reason?

[Krazy]

I'm going FULL VANITY

Vote Gamma

but Krazy, you never go FULL VANITY!

I feel like Lalendra is a straight coinflip. Tails she's town, heads she's scum. No idea how I'm ever supposed to sort her with naked votes, and I'm not strongly opposed to getting rid of nulls if it means we can focus better tomorrow. If we want her L-1 I'm down, but I still feel like this is a pretty weak case.

[Krazy]

Oh so you did. Where was your wheme explanation tho? That one kinda was naked, wasn't it?

[Krazy]

Robster you are not voting based on meta right?

[Krazy]

Man, I didn't even go CHOO CHOO on Gamma. What is this game.

That's okay though. Gamma wagon is fun wagon. We have cookies.



Gamma wagon is hot and sweet. You guys can come too if you want. Does Lalendra wagon have cookies? I think not.

H8rs don't like cookies. But don't mind them.

[Krazy]

Showed up fine in preview? Working for me? IDK

[Krazy]

Lalendra wagon looks town but it feels like a gamble to me, as I mentioned earlier. It feels like a coinflip lynch to me. I don't get why people like wave and Tchill have been so happy to sit on it today, but there are so many things in this game I don't understand I can't even count them with both hands and toes.

Love you too PP. <3

[Krazy]

and a game I self hammered as doctor because I was frustrated that people didn’t believe my claim because I didn’t claim flavor?

Get your bs out of here

So when your frustrated as town you care about what happens after you get lynched? When your not frustrated all you care about is surviving?

mhm thinking about it it's actually very similar to his first newbie and yet he's playing different
nah fuck dis s*** I think wheme is actually scum
VOTE: Whemestar

This looks exactly like the type of post I would write when I was ready to bus. This is also after it was pretty clear the ship was sunk and it was time to bus.

The whole slot reads like scum to me but this post in particular really struck me in my read.

Like, this is the only post where Gamma curses? The tonal certainty of this post is so at odds with every other vote, it's just, very weird. It is not a town vote.

IMO

[Krazy]

Do you want Lal back to L-2?

[Krazy]

what

we have 24 hours until this day cycle ends and you're going hardlurk?

[Krazy]

Alright, finally Tchill is here. LOL I was starting to wonder if your meta just flips out in large normals or if you were just getting caught up.

[Krazy]

I'm pretty sure scum is going to have to kill Ausuka before endgame.

You know this may be strange but I'm thinking back on this.

I'm probably in conspiracy theory mode here but could this be a slip?

Like, think about Wheme's claim. As soon as he claimed doctor, he was dead. Otherwise they have to leave Ausuka alive until endgame. So I wonder if in Scum chat they decided at some point they had to bus hard BECAUSE the doctor claim actually fucked them if he survived the wagon? If they ever decided they needed to kill Ausuka, wheme gets lynched immediately anyway, so why not bus him hard earlier to gain those "on the wagon" points?

I kinda want to look back at who joined the wagon after the claim.

Why do I have like a 99% thought that Gamma joined the wagon after claim. Need to reread that part in context tomorrow morning.

texcat+gamma anyone?

[Krazy]

Which one is the lurker scum?

14. Lovebird Davesaz Frozen Angel Skygazer
17. Andriod18 Ankamius
23. Myloninja13

Is anyone else considered a lurker at this point outside these three?

[Krazy]

Well clearly some people disagree since Mylo was a #2 wagon today but the other two weren't. I guess I went through a fair chunk of today kinda going "why Mylo but not FA (now sky)"? One of the reasons that wagon kind of made my skin crawl. I think you were also saying you liked Mylo as a top 2 earlier. Was that just policy and you didn't care which lurker?

[Krazy]

Not a fan of Vax contentwise, but a vig fakeclaim is so risky for mafia.

Maybe that would be true if there was even a 1% chance that was a real claim.

[Krazy]

Calldown tactical nuke on Gamma+texcat

implying I'm Fire-Support Specialist[/b]

[Krazy]

It's not a fakeclaim, it's not even a claim, it's just twilight trolling. It's not even DAY LOL

[Krazy]

What don't you like about Rob?

[Krazy]

Let's be real Gamma, no actual person playing a town role has ever written "fuck it, I think X person might ACTUALLY be scum!" right before an L-1 vote.

Who told you to bus in scumchat? Was it Rob? It was nice of him to make room for you after all.

[Krazy]

Rob unvoted and played around with intent to hammer which iirc is when Gamma joined the bus. In my mind it reads a little like "COME ON GUYS, WE CAN GET EVEN MORE VALUE OUT OF THIS BUS!"

[Krazy]

ALERT: texcat and Gamma survived my twilight tactical nuke. They are now radioactive.

Checking Viewscanner now.
Oh dear god.

Spoiler:

WHERES MY AIR SUPPORT? Command, we need AIR SUPPORT!

Vote texcat

Image spoilered in accordance with rule #4 under respect.
~Ircher

[Krazy]

Yeah, not a shock that you're not following Dunn. Somehow this makes me like texcat even more though, not gonna lie, scumGR.

(

But Krazy, is GR bussing or did he give himself permission to mislynch SS?

Well Krazy, I think GR is playing for endgame, so this could be an early bus.

But are you saying you think both wagons are on scum already? That seems overly optimistic, Krazy.

All we know is that texcat is scum, so don't worry about it right now.

Okay, Krazy.)

[Krazy]

@GR, Still waiting for a resupply on nukes.

[Krazy]

If you want a real answer GR:

Scenario 1: I'm wrong, you're town. You're useful town, so being wrong on you would be bad. Based on my track record and basic statistics, this is... not unlikely.
Scenario 2: You're scum. You will actually be fun to take down so let's save the good part for later. Don't want to do the boss fight too early, otherwise it will make catching the other scum boring.

I'd say it's 55% 1, 45% 2.

Either way, I'd prefer you live for today.

Meanwhile, Texcat and Gamma are both 50%+

In fact, let's get out the scanner.

SCANNING... SCANNING...

Texcat... I don't believe it...

SCAN COMPLETED.

Texcat is 85% MAFIA

Command, we need clearance for weapons free!

[Krazy]

Not really. I started with null and nothing I've seen has upgraded him. But he's not texcat or gamma levels of scum. I do not see how he is a better lynch for today than Texcat. Do you want to break it down for me or point me to a post where it is broken down that you agree with?

[Krazy]

Tchill. Texcat wagon has cookies!

JOIN US~~~~

[Krazy]

Do you think it's plausible that both wagons right now are on scum?

[Krazy]

I put a solid 5 minutes of work into this meme guys.

[Krazy]

Is that L-2?

[Krazy]

no one is hammering before hopkirk gives final list.

btw, texcat hasn't posted yet, so although I don't think texcat would ninja a hammer, let's not l-1 scion kthxbai

[Krazy]

@scion, How would you respond if their reasons were "Holy shit" and "Dear god just look at it"?

[Krazy]

VOTE: Ausuka (I don't understand why nobody is on her, she had some traitor theories and disappeared without a notice)

will try page by page catch up, seems more efficient
----
page 5
VOTE: 101 - towny
VOTE: 104 - scummy
VOTE: 115 - scummy
scumlean on Ausuka and Charles
page 6
VOTE: 125 - scummy
page 7
VOTE: 143 - meh
townlean on A50.
page 8
VOTE: 185 - I agree, felt like Charles was dodging the question.
VOTE: 194 - pretty meh
page 9
townleaning Lalendra
page 10
Golden Robster can be town too.
page 11
VOTE: 273 - scummy.
Scumlean on Hopkirk
page 12
Hopkirk looks better here.
page 13
VOTE: 301 - meh.

----

townleans: A50, GR, KK, Lalendra
townihs null: pine, osuka, hopkirk,
null: the rest

i wanna talk with my two scumleans first, if you want something to be explained lmk

tbh between cat and scion this is the only post that looks like it could have plausibly come from town. Not nearly enough for me to upgrade from Null but this is one reason I do think cat is the better wagon today. I agree with more reads here (considering the point in the game) than anything I have seen from cat (or Gamma).

Why is this post scummy guys? Why am I wrong and scion is the better wagon?

@Scion, aside from this one post, why are you town?

[Krazy]

Warning tchill, if you have fewer than 2000 posts by day 6, you might earn my vote.

You probably don't get it before then though lol Too much shady stuff in this game to vote based on activity/meta/bs.

pedit: @Scion: bro

[Krazy]

Oh, I wasn't actually disagreeing with anything you said, but the sheer fact that you aren't posting 8 times every time anyone says anything has really thrown off my read of you LOL

[Krazy]

Dunn has been voting tex since he sheeped me yesterday. His vote hasn't moved since I said CHOO CHOO, iirc.

The power of CHOO CHOO is strong with Dunn. Do not question the logic of train sounds.

In fact, once more:

CHOO CHOO!

Texcat train is a good train!

Ignore the shade being thrown. Join the one true party train!

ALL ABOARD

[Krazy]

I might take a break from mafia after this game...

You should install Starcraft 2 arcade and join me in some quick games there. These forum games always get the blood boiling. Need some proper trolling and some actual, high-quality gamethrowing, in addition to nonstop fakeclaims and most games ending in autowin. It's a joy.

[Krazy]

The fact that Wheme, Lalendra, and Mylo are on PP also points towards PP town. They’re either scum joining on, or town that is being used a scum sheep votes for scum.

Wheme likely has the worst ISO in this game, to be honest. We had Wave, who I think is town, alongside the masons and Penguin being the only ones on the Wheme wagon initially when PP was picking up steam.

Have you looked at Mylo's ISO? Have you looked at ArcAngel's ISO (though it has improved somewhat with BrawlGuy's replace in)?

After yesterday I feel okay with my vote on Wheme.

I have no idea how Texcat could make that post asking about extension (not to say it looked like giving an extension would suggest answer) and then asks about Mylo.

I have this sneaking suspicion that scum is controlling this game. Perhaps it's just my bad gut. The one advantage that town has over scum is numbers. And we give up that advantage when so many players are not playing.

Yesterday when we started consolidating wagons, it looked like it was going to be either Performer or Wavemode. And then it actually ended up being Performer and Android. And today, it looked like it was going to be Penguin and Robster, but now it's looking like Penguin and Wheme. Based on this alone, I'd say Wavemode and Robster are likely scum.

Just reminding everyone that town does not write this post

[Krazy]

misrep

it's a train now, not a wagon. wagons don't go choo choo

this is srs bsns gaiz

[Krazy]

BUT ARE YOU STILL HERE?

[Krazy]

Town: Penguin, Wave, JarJar, KK

Also, town: Gamma/Texcat/

Android/Tchill/Creature/Skygazer
Dunn I want to reread at some point.
People I also want to reread that I’m currently suspicious of: Scion/Vax/TBG/Krazy/Robster/Mylo

[Krazy]

Dude hopkirk if you will go on Gamma just say the fucking word.

THE CHOO CHOO SOUNDS ARE READY

[Krazy]

1. Dunnstral -- First glance in iso seemed scummy. I've seen mafia do the "why don't we believe the cop" in games before. But I like his vote on tex so I've downgraded him to lean-scum from obv-scum. Looking at some of the posts in context also made me dislike them slightly less, even though in iso they still look bad.

4. Fumuki Golden Robster -- For such a smart player this slot has said a bunch of shit that makes no sense. Scum playing for endgame is my impression right now. The way he played up the wheme hammer also made my skin crawl, as did the unvote-vote like he was still thinking about it. The way that exchange went just reads fake to me.

5. Pine Krazy -- Pine was almost pure lurker and I don't get why anyone gave him a reading of anything other than null.

6. Creature -- I actually haven't read anything this slot has written and am hoping someone else explains what his alignment is.

7. Kublai Khan -- No idea

9. HopKirk -- Hopelessly lost town lead

10. Edosurist Gamma Emerald -- OBVScum from fake bus

13. EspeciallyTheLies Tchill13 -- Meta/bs has made me uncertain of my read, some of the stuff you say doesn't really strike me as all that coherent but I'm not sure yet if it's scummy

14. Lovebird Davesaz Frozen Angel Skygazer -- The hardest lurker that ever hardlurked. Straight null.

15. JarJarDrinks -- I liked the wagon placement on wheme but a lot of what this slot says makes my skin crawl. Initial town lean now null.

17. Andriod18 Ankamius -- I feel like statistically this is more likely to be town simply based on when that wagon on him formed. Null with a townlean.

18. Texcat -- Obscum because of fake QQ about town lead and reads that make no sense for any point in the game.

19. ArcAngel9 TehBrawlGuy -- I do not understand why this slot has been sheeping my votes and I kinda think he's trying to discredit my wagons through association. That's kinda cynical though.

20. Charles510 Vaxkiller -- I can't remember anything this slot has said or done so probably scum but not in my top 4.

21. Wavemode -- There was a reason I thought this might be scum but I don't remember right now.

22. TheRampage PenguinPower -- I'm pretty sure if I remembered day 2 events better I would have an opinion here but off the top of my head null.

23. Myloninja13 -- Thinks Gamma is scummy and that is the only thing I remember from the slot so I like it. I wasn't in love with the wagon on this slot either.

24. Scioness Sajj -- Null with maybe a slight scumlean but I wouldn't put it over 40%.

[Krazy]

Lynching dunn is an easy choice guys come on.

What does this even mean

[Krazy]

9. HopKirk -- Hopelessly lost town lead

this strike me as discreditory
Also I'm probably gonna start reading the stuff I missed cos if I don't I'm gonna continue not understanding what's going on

I'm just salty that he disagrees with me on you and cat.

This is also why I don't usually do full lists. Everyone focuses on the string-of-consciousness thoughts I poop out for slots I am not thinking about that much and it just distracts from the slots I actually think are scummy. Like, I think pretty much everyone else is null, other than the people I think are scummy. I don't see how this helps tbh. With this many players and the number of scum, even with a flip I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot of play that can give me certainty someone is hard town. Especially when we still have 15% of the game as basically lurkers.

Like what even is this. Are you any less scummy just because I made a joke about our last mason?

[Krazy]

Did GR actually replace or she just v/la?

Anyway it sounds like Hopkirk is strongly opposed to texcat. I would like you to explain why you see texcat as town, because I REALLY do not see it, and if you can convince me then I need to reread wavemode so I can remember what I didn't like about his slot.

So we are back to this then.

Vote Gamma

THE COOKIES ARE MOVING, PEOPLE.

[Krazy]

I'm pretty sure GR is scum but I'm afraid of training her since her town contributions could be quite good if I'm wrong.

At some point, I didn't like Scion or Vax as scum quite as much as Gamma, Texcat, maybeDunn, GR, or wavemode. So I don't have room in my scum team to fit them. But I don't see anything that makes me think they're town either. Pretty much just null. I'll re-evaluate when I get flips on one of my current leads.

For Mylo, I like his suspicions of Gamma, and didn't love the wagon on him. Soft townlean, but there's not a lot to work with.

[Krazy]

Whatever. You had your shot and blew it. The game I wanted you to point to was Open 688. You modded that game, so you should remember that Creature was so unengaged that he forgot his night action. Your assertion that it's completely black-and-white was bullshit.

Oh right, Gamma was the one that thought Creature was obvious by day 3. Gamma is Creature obviously town or obviously scum this game?

[Krazy]

Command, where is the air support?

RRRR--Roger that, Helo is in Route

CONFIRMATION FROM COMMAND -- WE ARE WEAPONS FREE

VOTE: myloninja
honestly all the actual content I've seen from him has been terrible
I'm done beating around the bush here

Opportunism.

UNVOTE:
Lalendra explained the issues I had and she seems genuine rn

Gamma knows Lalendra flips green.

UNVOTE:
honestly the behavior after this slot claimed from a couple people makes me think it's town
is there any other wagon to performer (besides android)? I'll vote performer if it's literally the ONLY option, but if anything else is there I'll probably vote there.

This is a scum post.

and a game I self hammered as doctor because I was frustrated that people didn’t believe my claim because I didn’t claim flavor?

Get your bs out of here

So when your frustrated as town you care about what happens after you get lynched? When your not frustrated all you care about is surviving?

mhm thinking about it it's actually very similar to his first newbie and yet he's playing different
nah fuck dis s*** I think wheme is actually scum
VOTE: Whemestar

This is a bus.

A counter wagon that didn't go through cause the original wagon got lynched imo

what part is your opinion?

That Android was the counter to performer not vise versa

Andorid wagon was shit and it didn't make any sense in my head to be used the way you and pine are using it right now.

I am with Frozen here, with the caveat that the way Android dissolved makes me think it was possibly a scum driven wagon with desire to draw a claim

I don't like this post. Just do not see how point B is gotten to from point A. Also, what scum-driven wagons are not intended to draw claims, j/w? This reads like fake theorizing.

It means scum thought about what they were going to fake claim.

Scum said "wheme fake claim cop, because we have multiple masons outed already and that'd be a reason to buy you a day. At the worst you out the real protective"

Wheme fake claims, dunn highlights why we'd keep the doc in the game. Now in the context of the claim it looks terrible and awkward. So I'm having a hard time believing anyone actually believed that claim. On top of the fact DUNN HIGH LIGHTED THE DOC COULD PROTECT THE MASONS. Which is why scum fake claimed doc in particular.

Hm this makes sense
VOTE: Dunnstral

Flip on Gamma would give us more to work with in reading Dunn.

Excuse me did something happen that I need to know about? ...No? Okay then.

Active lurking during the SS wagon might make me re-evaluate SS if Gamma flipped red.

The amount of counter wagons that popped up from lalendra tells me she's scum and scum are scrambling to find a different wagon.

It's kind of obvious.

Also while Wheme was a centralized lynch, Performer was too so I don't think this analysis is super-fair

Nothing Tchill or Gamma says here makes to me personally. That Gamma agrees with Tchill's poor reasoning and then says something else that makes no sense really bothers me.

Kay

VOTE: texcat

Something about tex's tone has struck me as towny tbh

Makes 0 sense based on texcat's play.

lynching within the hood isn't town-oriented play;

why thin the hood d1 when it will become super apparent who scum is regardless of whether we lynch them

mafia will become paranoid about them having power roles apart from the hood and will try and nk them

except wavemode has literally confirmed this is not the case for him

A flip on Gamma that rolled red could give us valuable insight into wavemode, who is hard to read atm for me but also suspicious.

VOTE: Andriod18
yeah wave isn't happening today

Kinda dislike this post but not sure scummy.

Would anyone mind if golden was gone Day 2?

He's been striking me as scum so I wouldn't mind

A flip on gamma that was red could give us some insight into GR.

Honestly I'm more in the mood to vote GoldRob out of those two, PP hasn't been towny per se but GR has been scummy
VOTE: Golden Robster

UNVOTE: Actually maybe Rob has a point

This is one point where I want to say Gamma could be scumteam with GR.

(cut the long part of Hopkirk's case on KK)

Summary: Feels like he’s not actually looking to solve the game and feels kind of self-contradictory. Not engaging deeply. Not following up on stuff. Unclear reads/doesn’t really feel like he’s trying to solve. Feels especially inconsistent in regard to lurkers.

Doesn’t help that his main five pushes are the three dead townies, the IC, and a push on FL that doesn’t fit how KK interacts with other non-contributors. Also doesn’t help he ignores/defends Android/Wave (who I scumread) while pushing every other wagon that happened yesterday.

Note- decided to go through this fully and see what results I got since I noticed earlier he doesn't mention Android, defends Wave, attacks Ousuka/Performer/Ausuka.

VOTE: Kublai Khan
I think this is a good case, and think that the points brought up are valid points.

Flip on Gamma could give us some insight into KK who is also a hard null.

Also I don't like this weak sheep.

CONCLUSION

[Krazy]

Flip on Gamma would give us more to work with in reading Dunn.

Or we can just flip dunn. Dont like u selling a gamma lynch as informational.

Rest if the case was actually ok but there's scummier people than gamma rn.

I'm more thinking the VALUE of a Gamma lynch vs. Lalendra/Mylo/policy Lurker.

I'm also not like dead set against a Dunn flip, but I don't think a red Dunn tells us as much as a red Gamma.

We're talking about the VALUE of a lynch. A Gamma lynch gives us like THREE HUNDRED MEGABYTES of associative tell data. That's THREE HUNDRED MEGABYTES.

Think of that. THE VALUE. And the USAGE. Of a Gamma flip.

Ugh. What can that do for you? The skies the limit. The skies the limit.

It's as if you have three hundred file cabinets of scum data. Three hundred file cabinets.

The biggest arena of flips today, is in Gamma flips. It's the biggest growing sector. And it's not going to stop. It's not a fad. It's tomorrow, today.

This comes with the associative tells built in.

THREE. HUNDRED. MEGABYTES.

[Krazy]

Gamma wagon has the best memes. Join us, Mylo! Embrace the lulz!

[Krazy]

Dunn, I'll vote texcat with you tomorrow if you vote Gamma with me today!

What do you say? Mutual bonds?

[Krazy]

This is it boys and girls. One day you will be sitting with your grandchildren and they will be asking "where were you on page 200? Were you on obvscum gamma?"

What will you say then?

[Krazy]

Did I miss something about Dunn?

An odd question since you're voting him

[Krazy]

@Dunn, It's not tunneling if I want to lynch texcat just as much

@Creature, I think SS didn't like the wagon. TBG thinks the defense of the doc claim doesn't fit Dunn's scum meta. Guess that one depends on whose wine you choose to drink. Both of those reasons seem bad. Anyone else know Dunn meta on whether making a risky defense of wheme is plausible?

[Krazy]

Do you think scum!Dunn defends wheme's doctor claim?

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

@Gamma: Does it? In a large normal you're going to jeopardize a second slot to save a sinking ship?

This reasoning seems ???

but it is also very wifomy so basically I'd like to understand why people see Dunn as scum outside of Evidence 1.0: Dunn's Defense of the Doctor Claim.

[Krazy]

Actually I do think that post is kind of scummy, but not because of the defense of the doctor claim itself.

If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it

That was the part that led to my initial vote on Dunn when I first joined the game.

The sense of trying to save the slot today while giving it permission to bus on a future day seemed scummy.

The problem I have is I rereread some other games (not Dunn's) that were shaping my attitude on how town vs. scum defend, and the first half of the post actually reads more towny

What's wrong with you guys? I don't remember wheme being so scummy that we ignore good strategy and just lynch him through a doctor claim, I was under the impression that this was basically a lurker/lynchbait day.

This part looks towny, the rest looks scummy.

My concern is that I feel like I more often see scum grapple onto a misguided town post like this after a red flip going for a mislynch than I see scum defending a buddy in a brazen manner, especially in a large normal.

So I'm still thinking through the post, but I disagree with the reasoning that scum in general would have defended Wheme's claim here, and I have yet to hear anyone give a meta/bs explanation of why Dunn in particular would.

[Krazy]

I feel conflicted. Dunn was the first person I looked at in iso and said "ahoy, here thar be scum." But I've liked Dunn's thoughts on texcat and gamma today.

And I dislike Gamma/texcat being on Dunn wagon.

But I'm also not really opposed to putting Dunn to L-1 if we want a claim.

Dunn is 60% scum, and I hate lynching 60% scum over 85% scum in texcat/gamma, but I am way more okay with this lynch than I was with Lalendra yesterday.

[Krazy]

I never said I think Dunn is town. He is just leanscum rather than obvscum.

[Krazy]

I do not put to l1 just for a claim. Claim is step 1 before lynch.

[Krazy]

Is there a reason not to hammer aside from the town's desire to sit around singing kumbaya and Hopkirk's opposition to days that don't go until the deadline?

[Krazy]

That's a real hammer not a fake hammer.

[Krazy]

it's not hammer tchill unvoted

shhhh

[Krazy]

Ank you put Dunn below 50%?

Like just because there's scum on the wagon (there is) doesn't mean this isn't another bussing day.

[Krazy]

But Hopkirk do you really want to do the scum bossfight today?

[Krazy]

Ank you put Dunn below 50%?

Like just because there's scum on the wagon (there is) doesn't mean this isn't another bussing day.

Scum aren't going to want to bus in this chaotic of a gamestate, are you crazy?

[Krazy]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree Ank. What do you think about Hopkirk's FoS on Mylo? Is Mylo truly too lazy to do meta?

[Krazy]

GR you have always been the scum bossfight.

[Krazy]

Ank is town but his argument is that Dunn is town because this is not a bussing day.

Ank this is large normal. Every day is bussing day.

Like this nonsense reasoning is why I think GR is scum bossfight. Because he keeps saying scum doesnt bus after they take a loss. Three tprs are dead or about to be dead. Their endgame is nuts. Scum is bussing and bussing hard ever since day 2.

If Dunn is town for a reason other than this wagon you need to say so because I really want to hammer before KK ninjas me.

Oh hey tchill abandoned wagon.

Ok ALL ABOARD

vote dunn

[Krazy]

That is total nonsense

[Krazy]

Apologies for shitty hammer. I will try not to vote when I'm not at home and actually double check the count 0.o

Hop, I meta'd Mylo, and I think this game fits his town meta more than his scum meta. Town meta is lots of lynchbaity short posts, scum meta is fewer longer posts.

Vote Gamma

[Krazy]

and again:

Spoiler:

I wouldn't feel too bad about lynching a town vig, by the way, but maybe we should let them live. If nothing else, if they're real they could tie up mafia roleblocker or something

What's wrong with you guys? I don't remember wheme being so scummy that we ignore good strategy and just lynch him through a doctor claim, I was under the impression that this was basically a lurker/lynchbait day.

Wheme isn't scummy around hammer, why would mafia claim dumb protect targets

If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it

If we lynch doctor we lose our way to protect all these mason/ic that prematurely claimed (more bad town play but nothing I could do about it)

VOTE: PenguinPower

Why the 2 different attitudes about the claims?

Tell me why didn't he defend the vig claim?

This is town pursuing an incorrect lead. JJD did have a strong case and Dunn needed a flip for reads to stabilize.

It means scum thought about what they were going to fake claim.

Scum said "wheme fake claim cop, because we have multiple masons outed already and that'd be a reason to buy you a day. At the worst you out the real protective"

Wheme fake claims, dunn highlights why we'd keep the doc in the game. Now in the context of the claim it looks terrible and awkward. So I'm having a hard time believing anyone actually believed that claim. On top of the fact DUNN HIGH LIGHTED THE DOC COULD PROTECT THE MASONS. Which is why scum fake claimed doc in particular.

Hm this makes sense
VOTE: Dunnstral

This is scum bandwagoning on to misguided town.

Look at the difference between how JJD and Gamma approach the Dunn wagon. Tchill's argument does not really make sense; the doc claim is precisely why scum would be inclined to bus. Gamma doesn't even comment on Tchill getting Wheme's fakeclaim wrong. It's like he's not even reading tchill's line of reasoning but wants an excuse to put his vote on a leading wagon. There is 0 real thought put into this vote.

Gamma is obvscum.

[Krazy]

The thing I didn't like about JJD being scum was that Wheme was pushing JJD and JJD was also pushing Wheme. While two scum do tunnel each other sometimes to avoid committing to wagons that will flip scum, I feel like I would see that from JJD but I wouldn't see it from Wheme. I just don't see it when I look at his playstyle. I probably need to reread that section but I want to say JJD struck me as basically being locktown based on how Wheme was acting on him. While scum bus all the time, especially when the wagon won't be likely to develop, I feel like the way Wheme was pushing for JJD seemed more opportunistic and less like a soft bus. In a large normal with no existing scum flips that would slightly surprise me for the bus to be going both ways. Not impossible, just not likely.

Also, based on pure activity, if both GR and JJD are scum town is basically fucked. Between the two, I see it as way more likely that GR would be scum than JJD. I don't think either is the optimal lynch for today.

TBG, can you explain why you see the JJD/Wheme interactions as bussing?

The main thing I dislike about Wavemode being scum is that Dunn spent a lot of time defending the slot. I want to say Dunn had a pretty solid TR on Wave, at least in the early game. I need to reread what Dunn liked about Wavemode/disliked about the wagon on him though.

@Mylon, while you're here, can you answer a simple question. When you say "meta" what do you mean? Do you actually read other games that person has played in?

[Krazy]

TBG, can you explain why you see the JJD/Wheme interactions as bussing?

Sorry didn't add the @ and don't want this question lost in the shuffle

[Krazy]

Sure, I can. First, though, do you agree that in a game this size, it's likely Wheme voted or pushed at least one other scummate once before he died?

In case my earlier comments on this weren't clear, I think scum have been soft bussing since day 2 and hard bussing since day 3. That being said, I wouldn't say I would go so far as to say I would call it

likely

Wheme was soft bussing on day 2. I think it is

plausible

. But while I do think most of the scum team have been softbussing since day 2, I'm not sure about Wheme in particular. He strikes me as a bit more opportunistic in playstyle and perhaps greedier, so there's a chance he didn't actually bus at all on day 2.

So I guess the question is how hard were Wheme and JJD pushing each other. It didn't look like a soft bus at a glance, but as I said, I need to go back and reread those sections. Why do you think it was a soft bus?

[Krazy]

*Soft bussing at the start of day 2, hard bussing since the wheme wagon at the end of day 2.

[Krazy]

@Mylon Hopkirk basically accused you of being too lazy to do meta reads at the end of last game day, lol. Are you scum because you keep saying you've meta'd people but actually you haven't?

[Krazy]

The former is fair lol, but if I were actually scum then that would be one of the least scummiest things about me lol.

You heard it here first, people. Mylon hardclaims

not actually scum

.

[Krazy]

Lets lynch everyone in pink there and see where it gets us.

Weren't you saying tex was tr yesterday? Why did you think tex was town yesterday? Did anything change that adjusted your read?

[Krazy]

Dear god is that really yellow?

Mfw its the dress all over again.

[Krazy]

GR is JJD town?

[Krazy]

TBG gets to wear the sorting hat!

VOTE: Lalendra person

A50 is obv town here

I agree. this one is town too.

Unfortunate but would scum be so chum so early into d1? WIFOM tho.

We should get Texcat today.. they read on me make no sense.


VOTE: Textcate

Arcangel strikes me as kinda towny

i figured it out though it's ausuka

TBG early is noticing players that are not vanilla town, so he seems engaged.

He hadn't mentioned Mylo since his vote for him in 1947 - 470 posts earlier. Mylo dropped a vote there when asked for a vote and came up with some weak reasoning, didn't even really try to back it up. So, it looked like he was opportunistically throwing a vote on someone who had literally just said they wouldn't be around to defend themselves and using OMGUS and vague "I don't see any reason for them to be town so they must be scum" as an excuse.

this is perhaps a bit blunt, but is mylo a weak scum player? i actually view this as a towntell if he's not b/c I think Scum are generally a little bit more worried about appearance. this seems much more town-realizing-he's-not-voting with a dash of lazy[/quote]

I like TBG's assessment of Mylo.

fuck all y'all for not assisting me in getting up to speed btw

anyway, I agree with whoever said masons + fulltown neighborhood is unlikely, so I'm pretty OK lynching in that pool. FL's partner needs to claim.

Out of neighborhood + FL, who should I read up on? Can someone give me a breakdown of everything that's happened related to the hood/its players?

This is dumb and bad strategy and nukes my earlier townlean on the slot. That being said, my main question is--would scum be that greedy? Especially this early in the game? I know, wifom.

alright so I did some ISOs

android: obvtown (how was he almost lynched?)
wave: scum
mylo: town
FL: lean town


I don't need FL's partner to claim, I'm sure enough in Wave lynch. Neighbor-meta aside, 99% of wave's contributions have been calling other players Town. Having lots of townreads and very few scumreads is a wonderful way to coast without taking heat or giving off associatives as Scum, and his tone also feels off.

VOTE: wave

plan to iso KK soon(tm) but I'm really happy with a wave lynch both mechanically and reads wise, so it's not a high priority for me.

TBG backs off mason claim necessity, which suggests maybe his earlier insistence was ruffles from settling into a game he hadn't got caught up on yet. Pressure on wave seems intuitive given the gamestate at this time.

standard timetravelling warning

There is zero chance there isn’t at least 2 scum in
PoV
JJD, Golden Rob, PP, Lalendra, Wave, Wheme, and I will power lynch my way through after the mason claim comes through.

Hint, I will not be going after JJD or Wave.

You're a mason, Wave's on your wagon which you want to lynch from, and Wave's the only non-conf town Neighbor left... and you won't vote him? How is he not obvscum from your PoV?

This is some more shitty reasoning but it could just be that he has no idea how to deal with an unproven claimed mason.

Slight town lean on PP himself, but Rampage is town and so I really dislike the wagon.
A18 is still obvtown

Wheme I'm pretty null on, but of the three leading wagons, it's the only one I think is tolerable, so I'm ok shifting to it if we go that way. Who outside of the 3 leading wagons could we go to? Obv. Wave is my preference, but I don't think that's going to gain legs.

This seems like town that has replaced in and isn't really settled in his reads willing to compromise. TBG could have pretty easily stayed off the wagon considering he was still playing catch up at this point.

busy irl so can't reply fully, but UNVOTE: wheme[\unvote].

still want lynch, just bad policy to run to l-1 preclaim

What, no one ever hammers at an unexpected time while someone is at L-1! It's unthinkable!

This looks shitty in retrospect but seems pretty reasonable for a conservative town player going by the book.

just intent so he claims instead of playing around

Seems towny.

UNVOTE: wheme

This vote's coming back tonight but I'll give you a few hours time.

Looks shitty in retrospect but I almost want to say scum would not unvote their buddy twice while waiting for a claim. Wheme was far up the wagon and it would make more sense to assume there's a good chance he goes down. It looks shitty but strikes me as having more town-motivation than being indicative of what tchill calls "stalling." This isn't really stalling, this is not letting a happen before a claim is out. From TBG's perspective as town, if he has put an un-claimed TPR at L-1 and scum hammers before claim/results, he is fucked.

VOTE: wheme

Some more explanation here would have been dope. I mean he was lynching through a doctor claim and nothing?

Holy some1 has a brain

This reads like wheme trying to make TBG look shitty after his flip.

Can either of you explain why texcat? I don't recall her being a floated lynch before, and I haven't thought anything of her up to this point.

TBG did not read ArcAngel, his predecessor... I don't know what kind of tell that is but it's surprising. Actually this might be the scummiest thing TBG has said all game, in not even being aware of who his predecessor voted.

no i understand and would be more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you were not a huge suspect.

Like i said im worried scum would try to use the context of the situation to achieve a mislynch on jarjar.

why would creature or lalendra be less likely to bus than jarjar? That does take skill and effort, what jarjar did, as either alignment.

i shouldn't be though - I endorsed Wheme lynch over the other two wagons, and unvoted for purely policy reasons while plainly stating I still wanted Wheme dead. I was also probably the most mentioned candidate for a potential CFD off of Wheme.

you're coming at JJD from the opposite angle I am. I'm not looking at who was most or least likely to bus Wheme, coming at it from ???->Wheme. I'm saying that if you look at Wheme's own behavior foremost, looking for Wheme->??? the biggest associative is that Wheme was weakly bussing JJD. Going the other way from JJD->Wheme, it checks out that they'd be a scumpair, but I really care about the link from Wheme->JJD. There isn't any Wheme->Creature or Wheme->Lala link, unless you count Wheme's really early vote on Lala.

I don't fully understand why TBG prioritizes busses over off-the-wagon and I don't get why he wants to ignore texcat when his predecessor thought the slot was scummy.

huh, idk why i didn't remember there being a wheme->creature link when there's such a large one. I guess it's because I was focused on the votes so much

yeah, OK, I can get on board with Creature being linked to Wheme

I still like JJD better, but I'm OK with Creature wagon now. I'd be willing to bet at least one of the two is Scum.

I don't really get this.

anyway, VOTE: texcat

JJD wagon has no legs (sad)
I don't like Mylo/Dunn wagons
Lalawagon is OK at face value, but Wave and JJD both being on it gives me the heeblies

Tex is mildly leanscum, mostly on the wagon because the other wagons are no bueno. feelsbad going to a wagon I'm not super jazzed about, but I did hit Wheme that way, so it could be worse

TBG did you just not read texcat before when you were defending him or wtf?

@Krazy

Here's the important information

the last 10-20 pages of D2 are the most cruical, the rest of D1-D2 is skippable

Hopkirk is confrmed masons with the late Flavor Leaf
Ausuka is confirmed IC, and neighbors with Wave, and the late Performer, who was also Vengeful
PP is claimed VT

Regardless of alignment this was a dope post and super helpful.

that's the man from the "wine in front of me" scene of princess bride, where WIFOM gets its name from

he's saying that scum might do that specifically because it would give them towncred as a thing scum would be unlikely to do

imo, I don't think scum being lynched yesterday actually affects the rest oft the scumteam's willingness to bus very much. When you have a 3 man scumteam, yeah, losing one makes you reluctant to bus and leave it all in the hand of the last scum. When you have 5 or 6, a scummate getting MLed is pretty meh.

TBG and I share the same reasoning on likely busses on day 3.

if we all swap tex becomes the leading wagon with momentum

CHOO CHOO

This is town.

CONCLUSION

TBG is

probably town

There are some questions:
why and when did your position on texcat change?
why did you not read your previous slot and forgot about his texcat votes?

Here is a premise you have to accept for TBG to be scum:

Having replaced in, TBG took a largely null position on himself and the town's credit that he was catching up and almost immediately hard bussed Wheme.

Is that a likely scenario?

[Krazy]

Because TBG had an out. He does not get lynched the next day just because he wasn't on the wagon that lynches scum. Gamma was not a recent replace-in and doesn't have as many excuses. Circumstance matters.

TBG put Wheme at L-1 and asked for intent to hammer to generate a claim. It is

possible

he does this as scum, but I do not see it as

probable

.

[Krazy]

What is your sense of TBG's meta? Why do you feel TBG's behavior fits with a scum mentality?

I didn't really say TBG's typical scum behavior... I said scum probably does not bus if they have an easy out and don't have to. Of course that's WIFOM. But he also doesn't play it up very much. It's not like he's looking for a lot of credit in the lynch. He doesn't even seem all that into it. It's a flip on someone that could plausibly be scum and he needs more flips to get a sense of the game as town. How does the way he voted fit scum behavior?

[Krazy]

I suppose I'm being disingenuous. I don't actually care if you townread TBG. i care that you townread him and scumread Gamma for THE EXACT SAME THING. and your explanation of why they're different is pretty fkin weak

TBG had just replaced in and could have easily said "haven't read wheme yet guys, like my vote on wave for now." TBG seems to at least put some thought into his votes but also seems willing to compromise.

Gamma's votes all are a mixture of opportunistic, lazy, or fake. There's no way his slot survives to day 6 without a bus.

TBG has

negative inclination

because his slot was basically null and he gains little by a bus.

Gamma has

high inclination

because he plays up the bus and needs the bus to survive.

They are very different cases. My argument is not that people who voted Wheme are bussing. That is impossible and absurd. By definition more than half the people on Wheme's wagon were not bussing because numbers. I'm not voting Gamma because he voted Wheme. I'm voting Gamma because his vote

reads as fake

. Gamma reads like a bus, TBG reads like a compromise push for a flip at the end of the day because his wagon had no traction. They are not tonally or thematically similar.

Look at how TBG votes Wheme compared to every other vote TBG does. Basically evaluating, by the book, all makes sense. The manner of the vote is basically the same.

Look at how Gamma votes Wheme compared to every other vote Gamma makes. It is highly emotional and seems to be looking for attention. It seems to suggest the desire to be recognized as having real conviction. It is emotionally at odds with pretty much every other vote, and it is emotionally at odds with every other vote because this time Gamma is bussing someone on his team.

If you would rather vote people off the Wheme wagon altogether, go for it. But don't accuse me of a contradiction here, because TBG and Gamma are way different in how they voted Wheme.

[Krazy]

Can you be specific on which posts from Gamma make you think Gamma is town or that you characterize as defending? Are you talking about before Gamma voted Wheme and was like "explain this wagon"?

[Krazy]

but this post is really really

scummy

salty

ftfy

[Krazy]

Nope. Why do you disagree on my reasoning on TBG?

[Krazy]

I mean, if you are conflating saltiness with scuminess then that is going to be fucking up your read. Doesn't seem functionally useless to me.

[Krazy]

Nope.

Agreeing with reasonable positions isn't scummy, and people get annoyed when you call them scummy for things that aren't scummy, particularly if they think you're town too.

Like, this is mafia, this isn't always disagree all the time for the sake of disagreeing all the time. If town can never agree with other towns we have a problem.

[Krazy]

So Tchill has 0 rebuttal for my comments on TBG I see.



If you town start actin' like it.

[Krazy]

So 100% of your case on TBG is based on Wheme's actions? You are ignoring the actions of TBG's slot itself?

[Krazy]

I mean, I don't think Wheme says literally anything toward your slot whatsoever. So if Wheme was actively ignoring your slot, doesn't that mean your slot is more likely to be scum than TBG?

Basing your entire case on what Wheme DID NOT DO and DID NOT SAY is shit reasoning.

[Krazy]

Holy some1 has a brain

Also, Tchill, this comment is directed at TBG. Wheme draws attention to TBG unvoting him. That's scum avoiding commenting on his buddy?

[Krazy]

Yeah I broke quotes in there at one point too, I probably should have spread it out over two posts so it was easier to respond to. Thoughts for the next SORTING HAT ADVENTURE.

[Krazy]

I think it's weird you're voting him since he's town.

Saying your case has shit reasoning isn't throwing a tantrum, it's the truth.

So far your case is:

-I'm sheeping other people
-Stuff scum did
-He hasn't had a wagon

All three of those are shit reasons, QED your case is shit. <--this is not tantrum Krazy

[Krazy]

yeah keep tunneling gamma buddy you're really helping town.

Would you be on board for a Texcat lynch?

[Krazy]

Nope.

Agreeing with reasonable positions isn't scummy, and people get annoyed when you call them scummy for things that aren't scummy, particularly if they think you're town too.

Like, this is mafia, this isn't always disagree all the time for the sake of disagreeing all the time. If town can never agree with other towns we have a problem.

I can't tell if you actually understand what I'm getting at or not

Let's assume not then

[Krazy]

Can you be specific on which posts from Gamma make you think Gamma is town

read my 1512

or that you characterize as defending?

are you actually going to claim that 3144 is not a defense of wheme?

No, there were just multiple points where my top fos defended the confirmed scum before they faked commitment to the wagon before backtracking again and seeing if maybe the lynch might be cancelled.

It is a defense, it doesn't make Gamma any better though.

It seems like a lot of your defense of Gamma hinges on a game you played where they were not like they are in this game. Have you looked at more games beyond that one?

It also seems like you think Gamma is town because he is "indecisive" and "aggressive" -- in what sense has gamma been aggressive for the last two days? It seems like he has been straight up active lurking while sheeping leading wagons for the whole last two days. As for indecisive... Gamma has voted like, maybe 6 people this game? Of which includes Lalendra (with a weak sheep vote) and PP (who is confirmed town). There's also Mylo, which reads to me as opportunism on lynchbait town. Where is the scumhunting? Where is this aggressiveness that makes Gamma town? Because frankly I just don't see it. It seems more like Gamma is perfectly happy to throw his vote on the leading wagon and sit there until it results in a mislynch. How is that indecisive?

If you want to really meta Gamma, then let's meta Gamma. I'm not the biggest fan of meta, but yolo.

Vanilla town -- look at the frequency of vote movement and the different pushes --> this is town Gamma:
viewtopic.php?t=75418&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Town Gamma -- look at frequency of vote movement and different pushes, again town Gamma:
viewtopic.php?t=75469&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

TPR, still more pushing and vote frequency than here: viewtopic.php?t=75388&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

If you wanted to make the counter-argument, Gamma this game is playing a bit closer to this: viewtopic.php?t=75571&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

So town Gamma CAN be passive, but USUALLY is aggressive with frequent pushes and high vote change frequency. To that extent, meta in this case leans NAI but suggest Gamma is not playing to his town meta in any clear or discernible way.

Scum Gamma -- kind of an unusual game tho so not sure if helpful, but it does line up with more unvotes, fewer pushes: viewtopic.php?t=75505&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Scum Gamma -- slightly fewer votes, and also noticeably less explanation behind the votes or associated pushing: viewtopic.php?t=75044&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

So let's review:

Gamma is not obviously town from a meta reading. There is one game where Gamma plays a bit similarly to this, but most of his town games look pretty different. Additionally, from a meta reading, Gamma could be plausibly scum. This is not significantly different from Gamma's scum play in previous cases.

So if your argument is that I am scummy because I think Gamma is scummy because of your meta read that Gamma is town, I strongly encourage you to look at a wider sample size of Gamma's games than just the one you were in. At the very least, you should recognize that another participant in this game is not going to look at Gamma and say "Oh yes, based on meta this person is town." People in this game are first going to look at what people in this game are doing.

Beyond that, meta is weak. Look at Gamma's reads, votes, and overall portfolio in this game. The votes on Lalendra and Dunn had little reasoning and were largely opportunistic. Beyond that, the slot is mostly active lurking while occasionally casting shade or goading me. If you really believe Gamma would not bus Wheme, I can respect that. That's a critical decision point, but don't assume that I'm scum if we disagree on that matter.

As for Gamma being wishy washy while Wheme was up... yeah, I think Scum-Gamma would have been willing to get off the wagon if he could have done so and it not look shady if someone else hammered.

-I think he tested the wagon by asking for its reasoning while on PP
-He recognized PP had stalled and Wheme was probably the lynch for the day, so he bussed to active lurk for a few more game days while probably not getting lynched
-When there were some delays on Wheme, he thought maybe he could throw some shade and get off without ever actively defending Wheme, only questioning other people's reasoning for suspicion. He never argues Wheme is town after the bus. It's testing the waters to see if he could get off, so yeah, I don't really see it as defending that much. Look at how TBG and Ank defend Dunn yesterday. They argue that the slot is TOWN. They don't say, "well, your reasons for voting this person seem kinda NAI." It looks more like Gamma was setting up a rationale to leave the wagon without ever actively defending Wheme. This seems more passive and cautionary than aggressive, which fits Gamma's scum profile more than his town profile.

It is possible I'm wrong. If you think texcat is just a way better wagon, let me know why.

[Krazy]

Why did I apologize for a hammer that dropped while Hopkirk was in the middle of discussing Mylo and I was in the middle of asking Ank why he was so convinced on his townread? Gee I don't know, maybe because there were still things under discussion. The day was not done, it was a shitty hammer.

[Krazy]

Mylo, join us on Gamma! <3

[Krazy]

Sky what do you think of Gamma?

[Krazy]

JarJar/Wavemode/Tchill/Vax

this is hilarious because I would townblock with this group of people

Why would you townblock with Tchill?

[Krazy]

@Wave,

"No motivation" is very weak. You are right, my argument that TBG is town does hinge on him not wanting to favor towncred with an early bus. That is why I said TBG is

probably town

and not

locktown

.

But, looking back through when the possible busses happen, there are other important differences as well. The timing and context matters a lot in understanding when scum are likely to bus.

My vote is available before deadline if needed

VOTE: whemestar

I wanted tbg. don't really have time for anything else. sorry if you're town wheme.

Remember timing: TBG's first vote on Wheme -- 3000s, Gamma's, 3300s.

Wheme was a

sunk ship

when Gamma joined for L-1. This vote from the IC and the available vote from Dunn were both made AFTER TBG's initial vote on wheme. TBG voted one hundred posts before Dunn indicated he was willing to vote Wheme as well.

Wheme was NOT a sunk ship when TBG joined the wagon. There were three hundred posts, a vote from the IC and a vote indicated as available between when TBG joined the wagon and when Gamma joined the wagon. TBG helped sink the ship. Gamma joined after it was sunk.

The cases are not the same, and Gamma is way more likely to have bussed a sunk ship than TBG is to have come in and torpedoed his ally before the IC joined the wagon (IC vote was important, since it indicated the trifecta of conf-town of FL/Hop/Au, which if on scum is when scum are likely to decide the slot is lost).

Your question of why Gamma didn't immediately bussed but made a few quick questions first is worth thinking about as well. WHEN was Gamma interrogating the Wheme wagon? Most of his skepticism of it comes *before* Ausuka's vote. Ausuka's vote was the sign to bus on day 2.

[Krazy]

whats your deal? You didn't have any problems with me until i mentioned TBG's interactions with wheme, a minor part of my major SR of him. Now im confscum?

what the hell man?

I don't say you're confscum in that post, I say you're not obvtown. You've been null the entire game because I currently have no metric to separate wrong!tchill from scum!tchill. I was wondering why he thinks you're town, when presently I don't understand how anyone would see you as anything other than null, maybe null/leanscum in the case of Ank (who is going purely off VCA it seems).

[Krazy]

JJD, you strike me as a man interested in

a lynch on someone who clearly wanted their name attached to the Wheme wagon when literally all of the possible momentum was already in

.

Can I interest you in a

hot and spicy

Gamma lynch?

[Krazy]

Tchill, put aside the vote on Wheme for a moment. Look at the rest of what Gamma has done this game.

Is Gamma doing scummy things, such as...
is Gamma.... throwing opportunistic votes on leading wagons?
is Gamma.... active lurking?

Vs., Is Gamma doing towny things, such as...
is Gamma.... trying to sort?
is Gamma.... engaged in avoiding mislynches?

The question is not "is the Wheme vote CERTAINLY a bus" -- the question is, "is the Wheme vote PLAUSIBLY a bus"
Right now your answer seems to be "it's too scummy to be scum!"
... is it tho?

[Krazy]

I kind of want to lynch Mylo first since, town or scum, his is starting to feel downright insulting.

OK Hopkirk, I get that, but look at mylo and tell me he is not a mislynch. When I say on meta, mylo is obviously town, just look at it. This is town mylo:



This is scum Mylo:



It's pretty obvious that Mylo only tries when he is scum. Town mylo just likes lynching people. Scum mylo tries to make arguments and stuff.

If you want to policy that, go for it. It's a shitty meta to rely on.

But this is town mylo. So let's maybe not mislynch today okay?

[Krazy]

Whatever happened to that Texcat push yesterday from (Krazy, Scion, TBG, Creature) that was the Scion counterwagon.

Dunn was the counter-wagon to both Scion and Texcat. Scion and Texcat were opposing wagons that were racing. Texcat did not emerge in response to Scion, it predated it. Your shade-throwing is objectively false. If you want to say a counter-wagon emerged in response to Scion, look at Dunn. Who was on Dunn? GAMMA AND TEXCAT.

If you want to say scum-scion sheeped me on Texcat, and that I'm wrong on Texcat, you're welcome to make that argument. In fact, I've been fucking waiting for that argument (that texcat is town) for like two days now. "Texcat is town because Hopkirk says he's town" with 0 explanation. If I'm wrong, consider the fucking possibility I'm town and that I'd like to know why I'm wrong.

And you're also ignoring your own impact on the game. Dunn was lynched in part because you keep insisting Texcat is town with zero evidence, which was derailing the force of that wagon. You're assuming me and Dunn were wrong on Texcat when I have just as much reason to graveyard-sheep Dunn on Texcat as I am to believe your reads. If you won't prove ME wrong on Texcat, then maybe prove DUNN wrong on Texcat, since that was the hill he died on.

[Krazy]

Townpost from Mylo. Shows equal effort/content to that scumpost you mentioned.
Contradicts the argument (he only puts effort when scum, so not putting effort in makes him town).

He has one scumgame which you're drawing conclusions from and it was a bad scumgame. You can see him breaking down in the scum QT, repetedly saying he doesn't know what to do. He bussed a teammate and lost hard. He keeps saying he didn't know what to do.
It's unlikely he'd repeat the exact approach when he lost badly and seemed traumatised by it. Changing to lurking to avoid hurting his teammates makes sense from that POV.

Scion, you have made a strong case that Mylo is null based on meta. Good job.

I still think Mylo is town based on play. Mylo is also probably town this game though because:
a) Mylo keeps throwing people at L-2 in a very consistent manner, and seems largely indifferent to how he is viewed by the town. He voted up Dunn in the exact same way he voted up Wheme. This tonal consistency is why I also see TBG as probtown. Town tends to vote with a consistent tone, whereas scum needs to able to adjust course more abruptly, which is why their votes often read as fake. Scum need to be able to play up busses for town cred when ships are sinking even if they saw nothing scummy in the slot before (Gamma). If not, they avoid the bus altogether and hardlurk (Texcat).
b) texcat wants to mislynch him. Dunn was very confident in texcat scum, and texcat scum thinks Mylo is easy prey.

Mylo is probably town, he is definitely mislynch bait, and people trying to take advantage of mislynch bait on day 5 with this many flips is probably scum.

[Krazy]

shrug

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

I guess this is fine

But where is the vca?

[Krazy]

VOTE: sajj

is this forced? or can you expand on why SS is scum?

[Krazy]

I was mostly wondering whether you thought scion really fit a scum team well. I have mixed feelings on his slot, and I dislike having mixed feelings on a leading wagon.

I'm pretty sure if town keeps lynching literally everyone who has ever voted texcat that this town loses to some of the lowest effort scum ever, but that's their perogative.

Scion is like:
-meta does not fit his town profile (this is shit, but he seems super disengaged compared to the wallposts he is clearly capable of)
-mylo vote is shitty and kinda opportunistic

vs.
-he doesn't fit texcat team well
-town is helping scum lynch everyone who has ever voted texcat
-I have no idea what to make of his vote for wheme, but it almost looks 'too scummy to be scum'

Not sure how to sort that. While I have other townreads at the moment, their judgement seems shitty, so you're the only person in this game who actually seems to be making good points and is also clearly town. So do you think scion is scum? Because if so, I'd like help sorting him. And if not, we need to figure out a different wagon.

[Krazy]

Gamma can you expand on why you feel GR bussed wheme?

[Krazy]

What separates GR's vote(s) from anyone else on the Wheme wagon? Anything?

Why are you attacking me for questioning you instead of building a more convincing case on your vanity wagon?

[Krazy]

Vote Tchill13

[Krazy]

Gamma/Texcat/Tchill/GR

That's my solve attempt for the night, going to bed.

[Krazy]

I have this sneaking suspicion that scum is controlling this game. Perhaps it's just my bad gut. The one advantage that town has over scum is numbers. And we give up that advantage when so many players are not playing.

Yesterday when we started consolidating wagons, it looked like it was going to be either Performer or Wavemode. And then it actually ended up being Performer and Android. And today, it looked like it was going to be Penguin and Robster, but now it's looking like Penguin and Wheme. Based on this alone, I'd say Wavemode and Robster are likely scum.

VOTE: TBG

L-1

OK I guess we're not going to talk about how TC with 0 stated suspicions of TBG that is paranoid about scum powergaming is going to naked vote him to L-1.

Sure guys, have fun with your JJD wagon.

Vote Texcat

[Krazy]

my very scummy read

[Krazy]

Yeah but how does that make JJD scum?

[Krazy]

So what is?

[Krazy]

Tchill what's your read of Creature?

[Krazy]

VOTE: JarjarDrinks
Yeah I think this is shady enough
I was asking you about your reasons TBG to see if you had anything about his voting patterns, and while it wasn't as much of a smoking gun as I hoped I did see some stuff about it that made me feel like it was a good vote

I'm just going to say this JJD wagon might be the worst wagon in the game to date, and Gamma tried to lead it.

The three leading wagons are all probably town. Scion is the only one I might be wrong on, but I don't think I am.

CFD onto Gamma would be a good CFD.

Vote Gamma

[Krazy]

Aint happening so u gotta pick a horse. If Scion is the TR u have doubts on then throw down a vote there.

If you want my vote, give me a reason. Trying to badger me into sheeping a leading wagon will not work. I have a pretty explicit case on Gamma, whereas the case on Scion fails to explain the logical structure of her supposed Wheme bus. Gamma definitely bussed, for Scion it is maybe plausible but unlikely. TBG and JJD almost certainly did not and are very close to locktown.

All three of these wagons are shitty, and you trying to goad people into sheeping you onto probable town is not helping JJD.

Give me one good reason you are not voting Gamma.

[Krazy]

Here's what is going on.

JJD made a townsided misplay by pushing for two claims at once. Apparently he thinks he is Hopkirk and has a mason claim to rely on. IDFK.

The problem here is that scum will see an opportunity here to punish JJD because both of the leading wagons want to OMGUS onto him in desperation. Lost sheep Ank is following the swing and Creature might actually be scum too. So the JJD wagon right now is 1-2 scum, 2 OMGUS, and one lost sheep. = Total shitshow wagon

Why is this happening? SCUM want to PUNISH obvtown JJD by throwing a wagon on him, because he is a higher-value lynch than lost sheep obvtown TBG and null-prob-town Scion, who they can probably try to mislynch later.

Gamma's push on JJD is the most obvious scum shitshow from an obvious scumslot this whole game. This shit needs to get lynched NOW.

[Krazy]

I'm trying to not come off as pithy and wry. But my first response was "Reading the thread. Try it sometime."

I don't want to drive up the douche level of this thread though, so I will try to walk you through this.

Frozen Angel, HopKirk, Gamma Emerald, Golden Robster

These are all strong townreads. I see real scumhunting and purpose behind all their posts. I can expound more if people want specifics.

Creature

- Town - Posting style is jarring but there's certain posts I look at that just really cant come from scum.

Pine

- Town - Not alot of posts but I like most of them. I feel like Pine is on the same page as me.

Texcat

- townlean - Posts come across as genuine and nothing very scummy that I can see.

Vaxkiller

- townlean. Faking a vig claim is just so terrible but i dont know that I see scum doing it.

PenguinPower

- slight townlean - Not enough from him yet but ok so far. rampage was null for me.

Kublai Khan

- slight scumlean I guess. Nothing in his ISO really jumps out as too scummy to me but I feel like his reads lack depth. Also he's been scumreading alot of townies.

EspeciallyTheLies

- slight scumlean - I've already posted about how I felt like his whole day 1 was contrived but I think he's playing pretty solid on day 2.

Dunnstral

- slight scumlean - He does seem to put his opinion out there which is good. But man he spent alot of time yesterday talking about how bad the people voting in the hood was. And I very much dislike 1969.

Flavor Leaf

- slight scumlean - dislike all the self meta. Keeps promising content. Where is it?

Lalendra

- scumlean. Not very much content in her posts. Quite a bit of posts that aren't really related to this game.

Myloninja13

- scum - zero reads. An ISO full of garbage.

Wavemode

- scum. There's a chance performer wagon was a counter to scumwave. I guess I wont read too much into the hood but it's still on my mind. And as people have pointed he doesnt really ever scumread anyone. He seems to be trying not to piss people off.

WhemeStar

- Scum - has literally not explained a single read in his crappy lurker ISO

ArcAngel9

- scum - Performer vote was skeevey AF and the tex vote today doesnt really look much better

Scioness Sajj

- scum - dislike her early creature defending. Also makes alot of reads but there's never much reason given. It looks like scum trying to look it's giving an opinion but w/o really doing so.

Andriod18

- Scum - I think I've posted plenty why Android is scum. It's where my vote is going as of now so I'm sure I'll be expounding on this read through the day.

There is a lot wrong in this post, but both the right and the wrong are coming from a town POV. Remember he gets from this to lynching Wheme over the lurkers that aren't scum, or PP who is the scum-driven mislynch of the day.

He is wrong on Gamma because in an early game full of lurkers and active lurkers, it is easy to confuse a more active player for being town-aligned.
He is wrong about Texcat because early game texcat wasn't as scummy without flips.
He is wrong about Mylo because Mylo... I mean yeah, look at what Hopkirk says. It is easy for town to want to mislynch Mylo.

But he is right about EspeciallyTheLies, and he is right about Whemestar, and both of those things he was right on resulted in genuine pushes.

There is nothing in this post that does not make sense from a town perspective in this game state.

This is a player that in a largely lurker filled game is making the effort to put out full read lists and get shit moving.

This is a player unafraid to make stances clearly stated and to begin sorting early and often.

This guy is town as fuck.

Claiming mason. Legit claiming mason.

I want the partner claim or I'm considering this fake.

There is no fucking way scum has the balls to do this.

But there's so much fucking here to work with, and just about none of it is scum. Read in iso. Read the thread. JJD is not scum this game.

[Krazy]

Krazy pretty much outlined my feelings here on JarJar

Oh wait. I take it all back after reading stuff i missed.

[Krazy]

Nah I always just google on the fly. For that I was just: Vax just sent me on an emotional rollercoaster.

Emotional rollercoaster probably has a gif.

Google 'Emotional Rollercoaster Gif' (it was the 4th result); copy the image link location, and then add the image tag in preview. It took me longer to write this explanation than to do that post lol.

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

VOTE: ArcAngel9

?

It had been long enough that TBG had replaced in that I forgot texcat had day1 FOSd the predecessor (and also don't really like texcat not re-evaluating his day 1 reads despite a flip on wheme) but he does mention Arcangel several times GR.

Also, GR, do you know how disappointed I am that you actually might not be scum this game?

[Krazy]

This game is way more boring if you are town.

Also can you tell me how in the fuck you believe TBG bussed wheme? Having replaced in? With a perfectly viable Penguin push?

I know JJD is all gungho that "all the momentum was already there" and "it was like, a sure thing, brah" but uhm, no, no it wasn't. Like you are lynching the person who looked at a scum wagon and a town wagon with very little info and a perfectly good pass for the day and chose scum. I do not get it. At all. Even kinda.

[Krazy]

Yeah but why does he do that if he's bussing?

Like, if he's open to other wagons, and he's scum, he just... joins another wagon. He doesn't, as scum, announce he's open to other wagons but not get off the bus.

I mean, he's only stalling because Wheme is stalling. He doesn't want to leave someone who won't claim hanging at L-1. Like you are saying he is scummy because Wheme was doing scummy things and TBG didn't want to rush it.

Don't hammer yet

Dunn can ask people not to hammer, but look at this town. There's people like me and wave in it. If you don't want a hammer, you have to unvote.

Omg he still hasn't claimed. Just hammer.

To be clear, THIS looks scummier to me. When I have seen busses, I have more often seen scum try to play up the hammer. But JJD is still town.

Why is everyone so bloodthirsty? Wheme dies in a few hours.

I've seen enough annoying stubborn town PRs that I'd rather wait a few hours for information than not. I'm 90% this is scum stalling for lulz, but that still leaves a chance it's not.

Learn some patience.

This is a town player responding to JJD being WAY OVERCONFIDENT. You can't look at this stuff in a vaccuum. JJD is being punished today for the exact same powergaming tactics that TBG was responding to on day 2. TBG is coming off as overly cautious BECAUSE JJD is coming off as overly confident. BUT BOTH ARE TOWN.

[Krazy]

Imagine you are scum!TBG. WHY WAFFLE? Wheme is fucked. He is gone. Stalling will not save him.

Imagine you are town!TBG and you DO NOT KNOW Wheme's real flip. Imagine you are a town looking at a POTENTIAL TPR being lynched with NO CLAIM and NO RESULTS when he is not available to post during twilight.

It was absolutely right for Dunn and TBG to BOTH be saying to wait for Wheme to either claim while there was still plenty of time in the day cycle. Dunn was town and TBG is town.

[Krazy]

Day 2 VC #28

Golden Robster (0) -
Creature (0) -
Kublai Khan (1) - Andriod18 (2533)

WhemeStar (7) - Flavor Leaf (2958), PenguinPower (2962), Wavemode (2966), Hopkirk (3008), Kublai Khan (3027), JarJarDrinks (3030), Scioness Sajj (3034)

Hopkirk (0) -
EspeciallyTheLies (0) -
JarJarDrinks (1) - Dunnstral (2206)
Andriod18 (1) - Pine (1936)
Texcat (0) -
TehBrawlGuy (1) - Ausuka (3023)
Vaxkiller (0) -
Wavemode (1) - TehBrawlGuy (2690)

PenguinPower (8) - EspeciallyTheLies (1996), Myloninja13 (2437), Lalendra (2809), Creature (2835), WhemeStar (2930), Golden Robster (2979), Gamma Emerald (2990), Vaxkiller (3012)

Myloninja13 (1) - Texcat (2552)
Scioness Sajj (0) -
Flavor Leaf (0) -
Not Voting (1) - Frozen Angel

Lynch Threshold

During day 2, it takes 12 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 2 ends on July 14, 2018 8:00 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2018-07-14 20:00:00).

Moderator Notes

WhemeStar is V/LA on July 14.
Prodded Andriod18. They have (expired on 2018-07-13 16:24:38) to respond in-thread.
Seeking a replacement for EspeciallyTheLies.

Unless I find a replacement before the end of the day, there are no plans to extend the day's deadline.

If you have consistent weekend V/LA, you must remind me every weekend, or I will prod you. Alternatively, you can set V/LA tags each weekend.
If you notice any mistakes, please point them out. (That includes looking at the voting history.)

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 2

Dunnstral: Myloninja13 (1942) --> JarJarDrinks (2206)
Golden Robster: Hopkirk (2078) --> (Null) (2096) --> PenguinPower (2112) --> Scioness Sajj (2152) --> Vaxkiller (2171) --> (Null) (2288) --> Creature (2299) --> WhemeStar (2304) --> Wavemode (2367) --> Scioness Sajj (2432) --> TehBrawlGuy (2526) --> Flavor Leaf (2642) --> (Null) (2783) --> PenguinPower (2979)
Pine: Andriod18 (1936)
Creature: Myloninja13 (1941) --> PenguinPower (2835)
Kublai Khan: Flavor Leaf (1944) --> (Null) (2366) --> Vaxkiller (2423) --> PenguinPower (2899) --> WhemeStar (3027)
WhemeStar: Vaxkiller (2245) --> JarJarDrinks (2301) --> Flavor Leaf (2542) --> PenguinPower (2930)
Hopkirk: Andriod18 (2197) --> Kublai Khan (2346) --> (Null) (2781) ==> (Null) (2782) --> WhemeStar (3008)
Gamma Emerald: Kublai Khan (2488) --> Golden Robster (2839) --> (Null) (2867) --> PenguinPower (2990)

Ausuka

: PenguinPower (1960) --> Myloninja13 (2434) --> Flavor Leaf (2504) --> (Null) (2573) --> Myloninja13 (2574) --> TehBrawlGuy (3023)
Lalendra: Vaxkiller (2184) --> JarJarDrinks (2334) --> Andriod18 (2503) --> Flavor Leaf (2657) --> (Null) (2705) --> PenguinPower (2809)
EspeciallyTheLies: PenguinPower (1996)
JarJarDrinks: Andriod18 (1945) --> EspeciallyTheLies (2041) --> (Null) (2066) --> Andriod18 (2192) --> Flavor Leaf (2327) --> (Null) (2612) --> Flavor Leaf (2640) --> (Null) (2755) --> Andriod18 (2943) --> WhemeStar (3030)
Andriod18: JarJarDrinks (2116) --> Kublai Khan (2533)
Texcat: ArcAngel9 (1987) --> Myloninja13 (2552)
ArcAngel9 (1): Texcat (2072)
TehBrawlGuy: (Null) (2535) --> Wavemode (2690)
Vaxkiller: WhemeStar (2343) --> Myloninja13 (2472) --> PenguinPower (3012)
Wavemode: Texcat (2044) --> Andriod18 (2331) --> Flavor Leaf (2635) --> (Null) (2800) --> WhemeStar (2966)
PenguinPower: Myloninja13 (1947) --> Kublai Khan (2572) --> Flavor Leaf (2709) --> Myloninja13 (2759) --> Golden Robster (2775) --> (Null) (2894) --> WhemeStar (2962)
Myloninja13: PenguinPower (2437)
Scioness Sajj: Andriod18 (2904) --> WhemeStar (3034)
Flavor Leaf: JarJarDrinks (2205) --> Kublai Khan (2499) --> PenguinPower (2715) --> Golden Robster (2774) --> WhemeStar (2958)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Day 1

Note: * = Hammer Vote

Note: ^ = Vote after hammer vote.

Dunnstral (5):

Osuka

(77) --> Texcat (1388) --> Lalendra (1623) -->

Osuka

(1758) -->

Performer

(1782)

Srceenplay

(0): (Null)

Performer

(5):

Osuka

(623) --> TheRampage (909) --> Wavemode (1051) --> Andriod18 (1765) -->

Performer

(1849)*

Joral

(0): (Null)

Almost50

(8): Hopkirk (97) --> Edosurist (226) -->

Osuka

(390) -->

Ausuka

(1205) --> (Null) (1304) --> Vaxkiller (1352) --> (Null) (1380) --> Andriod18 (1460)
Fumuki (0): (Null)
Golden Robster (13):

Almost50

(177) --> Wavemode (183) -->

Osuka

(236) -->

Ausuka (317)

--> JarJarDrinks (319) --> (Null) (546) --> Vaxkiller (602) --> (Null) (1504) --> Wavemode (1588) --> (Null) (1589) --> ArcAngel9 (1770) --> Andriod18 (1784) --> [[ost=1798](Null) (1798)[/post]
Pine (2):

Osuka

(176) --> Andriod18 (1835)
Creature (6):

Performer

(385) --> Myloninja13 (720) --> TheRampage (813) -->

Performer

(898) --> Andriod18 (1449) -->

Performer

(1846)
Kublai Khan (6):

Osuka

(76) -->

Almost50

(122) --> Scioness Sajj (388) --> JarJarDrinks (536) -->

Osuka

(725) -->

Performer

(957)
WhemeStar (3): Lalendra (234) --> JarJarDrinks (797) --> Flavor Leaf (955)
Hopkirk (9):

Osuka

(90) --> Lalendra (279) -->

Osuka

(696) --> (Null) (993) --> Wavemode (999) -->

Performer

(1273) --> (Null) (1315) -->

Performer

(1458) --> Andriod18 (1679)
Edosurist (2): Texcat (84) -->

Almost50

(222)
Gamma Emerald (3): Vaxkiller (710) --> Wavemode (1107) --> Andriod18 (1711) --> _{(Null) (1889)^}

Ausuka

(9): JarJarDrinks (89) --> Creature (104) --> Myloninja13 (429) --> (Null) (742) --> TheRampage (743) --> Wavemode (998) -->

Performer

(1604) --> Lalendra (1624) --> Andriod18 (1680)
Lalendra (3):

Almost50

(209) --> (Null) (559) -->

Performer

(1229)
EspeciallyTheLies (2):

Almost50

(83) -->

Performer

(515)
Lovebird (1): Edosurist (259)
Davesaz (1): Wavemode (1014)
Frozen Angel (3):

Performer

(1579) --> (Null) (1606) -->

Performer

(1814)
JarJarDrinks (8):

Osuka

(85) -->

Almost50

(114) --> Charles510 (186) --> Edosurist (231) -->

Osuka

(535) -->

Ausuka

(842) --> Wavemode (1112) --> Andriod18 (1410)

Osuka

(10): Wavemode (80) --> JarJarDrinks (124) --> ArcAngel9 (229) --> Pine (332) --> JarJarDrinks (353) -->

Performer

(769) --> TheRampage (771) -->

Performer

(1047) --> Vaxkiller (1359) -->

Performer

(1384)
Texcat (4):

Osuka

(79) --> Wavemode (1080) -->

Osuka

(1703) --> Andriod18 (1777)
Andriod18 (4): Kublai Khan (190) --> Lovebird (290) --> JarJarDrinks (855) -->

Performer

(1796)
ArcAngel9 (4): Texcat (81) --> TheRampage (223) --> Texcat (604) -->

Performer

(1397)
Charles510 (2): JarJarDrinks (87) --> (Null) (310)
Vaxkiller (8): JarJarDrinks (363) --> Scioness Sajj (389) --> Andriod18 (437) --> JarJarDrinks (532) --> Golden Robster (678) --> Wavemode (1078) --> TheRampage (1085) -->

Performer

(1116)
Wavemode (5): Texcat (82) --> Charles510 (131) --> (Null) (838) -->

Osuka

(867) -->

Performer

(1108)
TheRampage (3): Creature (100) --> (Null) (509) -->

Osuka

(681)
PenguinPower (1):

Performer

(1774)
Myloninja13 (4): Edosurist (233) --> JarJarDrinks (326) -->

Performer

(1554) --> Andriod18 (1787)
Scioness Sajj (4):

Ausuka

(406) --> (Null) (1325) -->

Performer

(1552) --> Andriod18 (1760)
Flavor Leaf (1): Andriod18 (1772)

Pre-Game

Dunnstral (2): Texcat (9) --> Pine (43)

Srceenplay

(1): Andriod18 (62)
Pine (1):

Osuka

(16)
Kublai Khan (1): Pine (34)
Hopkirk (1):

Osuka

(66)
Edosurist (1): Pine (42)

Osuka

(2): Pine (28) --> Wavemode (33)
Texcat (1): Pine (44)
Wavemode (1):

Osuka

(31)

WTF are you saying there was no PP wagon when he voted? This VC is like immediately before he votes. THIS IS WHY HE VOTES.

OK, GR, I can see where you're coming from. I even looked through my games to find one where bus behaved like you're accusing TBG of acting here.

I found this if you want to look: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17145&start=275

Bvoigt here is basically your version of TBG, and [winger] in this case would be whemestar. It even has a fake power role claim! Nice analogue in that respect.

But the bus in that game is going on in a gamestate that looks like this:

[3] Acronach - [bvoigt, tclawre, havingfitz]
[2] Krazy - [RisingPhoenix, [winger]]
[2] PeregrineV - [Haschel Cedricson, Fishythefish]
[2] [winger] - [Krazy, Triglav]
[1] havingfitz - [Acronach]
[1] populartajo - [PeregrineV]
[1] Haschel Cedricson - [populartajo]
[0] Not Voting

So yes, scum do bus early. Scum do say they don't care which of their two top leads gets lynched and then maybe switch between them. I can see those behaviors coming from scum.

But in THIS GAME, TBG is pushing Wheme to L-4. That is a VERY different gamestate to be assigning that sort of gambit, especially for a player slot that has JUST replaced in.

Although, LOL holy shit

UNVOTE: Acronach
VOTE: [winger]

I'm fine with either of them getting lynched, and I believe winger has more votes at the moment.

This is actually also moving off a (not-their-side wagon) and putting his team-mate to L-4. Holy shit the analogy is actually closer than I thought.

Alright you know what, fuck it. TBG is still probably town but I'm going to bed before I confuse myself even more.

[Krazy]

vote scion

The only wagon that isnt almost certainly town. But still... less optimistic here than lalendra, and I wasnt really optimistic with lal.

I am up and on board for cfd on texcat.

[Krazy]

Meanwhile JarJarDrinks completely disappeared from his scumlist

Have you considered the possibility wheme decided jjd wasnt an easy mislynch?

This case on jjd seems weak af

This is the creature that like 5 people sheeped today? Ok

[Krazy]

Why shoot yourself when you can lynch gamma?

[Krazy]

The five hours when everyone is actually awake and usually looks at this thread.

I believe it is possible in terms of logistics. I don't believe it is possible given the sentiments of the town.

[Krazy]

if somebody well perceived with a case started a wagon it could happen i think

So no one then?

[Krazy]

Vote Tex

[Krazy]

I believe we can lynch scum today. I HAVE TO BELIEVE.

[Krazy]

(someone who the majority of people want to lynch)

(someone who the majority of people want to lynch)

(someone who the majority of people want to lynch)

(someone who the majority of people want to lynch)

(someone who the majority of people want to lynch)

Join us GR-chan. JOIN US! IN GLORRRRRY!

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

Byebye chicken avatar

You will be greatly missed

It's only L-4 on scion fam, come back to the one true party wagon

[Krazy]

it's day five and texcat still has less posts than a50. she didn't got prodded even once. posts enough content to not draw attention too much themselves
10/10 lurking

But at least I have posted content, unlike Mylo.

IT SPEAKS

LYNCH IT

[Krazy]

ITS NOT OVER YET FAM

WE CAN STILL LYNCH TEXCAT TODAY

I HAVE TO BELIEVE

[Krazy]

not deflecting off main wagons

FAM TEXCAT IS A MAIN WAGON

STOP DEFLECTING OFF TEXCAT

[Krazy]

if tex was scum she would 100% be making more of an effort to appear town right now; her last post was awful

the fact that she doesn't look like she gives a shit means that she's either pro scum (which I 100% doubt) or town that doesn't care (which I believe right now)

GR THIS IS CRITICAL MOMENT

ARE YOU TOWN?

OR IS U HER BUDDY?

NOTHING YOU JUST WROTE IN THIS POST IS RECONCILABLE WITH ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE SAID THIS GAME FAM

LOOK AT THE WORDS

SCION IS SCUM CAUSE SURVIVALISTIC BUT HARD LURK TEXCAT IS TOWN BECAUSE SURVIVASLISTIC

WHAT THE FUCK

[Krazy]

HARD LURKING IS MORE SURVIVALISTIC THAN VOTING

DO YOU NOT LARGE GAME?

[Krazy]

VOTE: Skygazer

Creature, come texcat

Today, we can lynch scum.

TOGETHER

[Krazy]

Look Idc which of them is lynched at this point. Scion or TBG.

Just lynch one. Stop delaying it. No good can come from that.

THIS IS ALSO SCUM

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

NOT AN OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
TehBrawlGuy(4) ~ Kublai Khan(23), Texcat(12), Myloninja13(18), Wavemode(54)
JarJarDrinks() ~
Scioness Sajj(4) ~ Golden Robster(62), JarJarDrinks(66), Hopkirk(28) Tchill13(130),
Texcat (L-1) ~ Krazy(64), Gamma Emerald, Vaxkiller(19) Scioness Sajj(29), TehBrawlGuy(67), Creature(63), Skygazer(10), Ankamius(85),

Not Voting (0):

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.


If this is right (I'm not a mod, I'm just trying to figure out where we are), then Texcat needs to claim

This VC is accurate.
~Ircher

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

We have under an hour

[Krazy]

Mylo, now is your time to shine!

[Krazy]

FAM

I AM BACK

FROM THE FUTURE



TONIGHT, WE WILL SEE THIS POST:

Night 6 begins!

Tchill13,

Mafia Goon

, was lynched day 6.

Spoiler: Animated GIF

Spoilered one of the animated GIFs.
~Ircher

[Krazy]

I don't like GR's progression on texcat tbh, going from scumleaning to calling him lynchbaity for a while, then pressuring him a bit once again and then hard pushing against the texcat wagon

Spoiler:

[Krazy]

Look Idc which of them is lynched at this point. Scion or TBG.

Just lynch one. Stop delaying it. No good can come from that.

Spoiler:

Stfu. I'm not scum. I've been barking up wrong trees this whole game. Maybe I'm just a bad dog.

I'm not scum though.

If TBG flips scum you definitely are though, Krazy.

Spoiler:

No lynch instead of lynching TBG or scion?

What a joke

Spoiler:

Vote Tchill13

[Krazy]

krazy, if you had to pick one of JJD or Wave to lynch, who would it be?

Tchill13.

JJD is still town fam. I mean only town would be that level of obstinate LOL

JJD thought he was carrying this game, then he realized he was horrendously wrong, today will be rough for him regardless.

Wave... could be scum, but honestly I think Wave was engaging me about Gamma in a way that was very important and very town-sided. Unlike Tchill, who mostly wanted to complain about my 'Gamma Tunnel' but did nothing to engage me on Texcat... almost as if he did not actually want to draw attention to Texcat! Gee, I wonder why he would be so uninterested in that slot...

If only I had a TIME MACHINE, to see the future... I'll start work on one right now. If I manage to succeed, I'll make sure I go back and add a post to the beginning of this day phase with my results.

[Krazy]

I don't think I even commented on texcat.

Spoiler:

[Krazy]

Ank you come up with nothing for GR?

[Krazy]

My bad, the four reds earlier looked like you were a bit settled.

[Krazy]

Are you including the obviously fake claims? (Think Vax? claimed vig at one point and retracted)

I think the known real ones are just Hop as last mason and yeah, Wave as last neighbor. Pretty sure all the other neighbors died. performer+ausuka are the dead neighbors.

Ausuka was IC, performer was vengeful+neighbor, Flavor Leaf was the other mason.

[Krazy]

Pretty sure TBG is the only living VT claim now.

[Krazy]

No lynch instead of lynching TBG or scion?

What a joke

Since Tchill isn't literally at L-2 already, which he definitely should be, let me walk you guys through this.

Ank is getting hung up on the VCA analysis, but what we really need to be thinking about here is a different metric.

I am talking of course about the epeen analysis.

What you need to think through is, does this player have the epeen to, as town, allow a no lynch to occur on a slot they are null on just because they didn't get their preferred lynch? That is, among the three players that nearly let a no lynch happen (JJD, GR, and Tchill), for which is it plausible that it was coming from a town POV?

For JJD, I'm just going to say, that answer is yes. JJD has the epeen that, as town, he would tantrum his way to a no lynch. It is the JJD way. To be honest, I was waiting for Mylo even before JJD said he wouldn't vote, because... I just wasn't holding my breath for his vote, what can I say. He also has the big brass balls that he would play up being online and choosing not to vote. JJD is basically a rolling ball of testosterone, and if you bear that in mind, literally everything he does makes sense. This is totally consistent with him wanting to get the second claim from Sajj yesterday. The dude thinks he is a third mason. I think the likelihood I'm wrong on this slot is low.

For GR.... this is really the question, isn't it? I am inclined to say no. And I think that "no" to GR letting a town no lynch happen on texcat is a pretty big part of solving this game. Certainly GR CAN be bull-headed and stubborn... but in this moment? In this moment, no, I doubt that. This remains a slot I could plausibly be wrong about, but at this point, I'd say GR has been upgraded to texcat levels of scum. Easily the second scummiest person in the game.

And then we have Tchill.

There's just no fucking way. There is no world in which a town Tchill even entertains the notion of a no lynch on a null. It just doesn't happen. That quote at the top is hardclaiming scum. He has literally built ALL of his cases around stallers to the Wheme wagon. Flips are so paramount to Tchill's understanding of town-sided play that it there is no way this post exists if he is town.

Like, look at it. He's so tilted that texcat is going down he can't even bring himself to say her name.

Lynch it.

[Krazy]

Cool who you shooting?

[Krazy]

I think he's claiming neighborized vengeful universal backup and so he is now in a neighborhood with wave, since performer was in a neighborhood.

[Krazy]

Hmm.

Okay. So either wavemode and Tchill13 are town together or scum together.

I think town and would rather lynch elsewhere.

No.

Wave might be optimal lynch today now.

A wave flip now acts as a one-shot public cop on Tchill, but a tchill flip does not confirm wave.

If wave flips green, we have a second mason in Tchill.

If wave flips red, we lynch tchill tomorrow and risk activating vengeful.

Vote wavemode

[Krazy]

This is lynching one person off the texcat wagon in such a way that it hard confirms another person off the texcat wagon, or flips scum.

I'm not seeing a lot of downsides in terms of information for the town at the moment.

Not exactly sure how tchill can have a confirmation that wave is town as a neighbor.

[Krazy]

@TC:
So is your argument that you were intentionally playing shitty yesterday to avoid a nightkill?

[Krazy]

So far this smells like something that was overthought in scum PT and I have no idea how wave can be confirmed.

But I'm also not like super opposed to a GR lynch. Just... the bossfight so early?

[Krazy]

alright VOTE: Golden Robster

Really? Nothing else wavemode?

[Krazy]

I mean he only has to explain one thing and confirm one thing.
Confirm: He is in a neighborhood with Tchill
Explain: How is he conftown

[Krazy]

What