Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Kop]

Some people (myself included) believe the RVS stage is never truly random and you always pick someone for some reason, so it's a "low information vote stage"

I think it's a minority opinion

Hmm, there's probably a statistic for scum being more/less likely to pick their buddies during RVS, but I couldn't find anything like that on the wiki unfortunately.
We could start gaining info for that now if you like? What alignment are you and was your RVS your scum buddy?

I actually picked kop because he totally duped me in a past game once ha ha

I am town of course

Your going to have to refresh my mind, what are you on about?

[Kop]

Could I ask what LIV means please?

Short for LIVERPOOL. Check his avatar!

The greatest city and football team in the world fyi

[Kop]

I think I read somewhere in the wiki that Liverpool supporters are 17% more likely to be Bulletproof Jesters. Do you think we should lynch him or let him walk alone?

1- A Kop will never walk alone.
2- As far as "Jesters" go, you're confusing the Reds with the Red Devils, I think.

Liverpool nickname are The Reds.

[Kop]

“Judge Joeseph Dread shouldn’t actually check people as cop. The chance of them being a godfather is actually higher than the chance he’s ever wrong about a read”

Also, this is a reminder. We should be lynching Elements before dawn.. (Yeah, I'm too dumb to tell the difference between dawn and twilight. To me the sun isn't there but the sky isn't completely dark either way, so same difference)

Why?

[Kop]

If cop did check the miller claim and actually gets a guilty, we're no further forward to the truth, because that claimed miller still could be scum. It would create a lot more WIFOM than anything else because we're left with a debate on either believing the claim or lynching said claim.

I also don't get why we are discussing what possible roles are out there. Rolefishing is scummy.

[Kop]

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

[Kop]

im not liking the fact your speculating on the set up this early.

Is it early to start speculating? I just quite like doing it.

Im hoping for a third game were my initial impressions turn out to be right

Sorry to disappoint

I find rolefishing to what roles could be out there scummy, especially on day one. Because it just feels like it could be scum looking for reactions and get a feel of where the possible PR's are.

Setup speculating should be done at least day two once we have a night out of the way to see what we are up against.

[Kop]

I think all the miller claims are fake and if they're investigated as mafia, they are mafia. Those are my two cents.
I also cannot remember who I'm voting for currently.

I'm not ruling out a miller possibly being out there, but any modified millers are all fake IMO. I don't consider any modifiers normal roles in a normal game like this. Unless this setup is different kinda normal to what I'm used too.

[Kop]

VOTE: Roster

[Kop]

Some people (myself included) believe the RVS stage is never truly random and you always pick someone for some reason, so it's a "low information vote stage"

I think it's a minority opinion

Hmm, there's probably a statistic for scum being more/less likely to pick their buddies during RVS, but I couldn't find anything like that on the wiki unfortunately.
We could start gaining info for that now if you like? What alignment are you and was your RVS your scum buddy?

I actually picked kop because he totally duped me in a past game once ha ha

I am town of course

Your going to have to refresh my mind, what are you on about?

@profii did you answer this.

[Kop]

I've just spent the last 30 minutes digging through previous games, and can't find it

[Kop]

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

1. Who are you, where did you come from, why is this one of the first times I'm aware of your presence?

2. If town can work together-subtly-with the prs to prevent or predict a NK it will be favorable. Town can WIFOM scum with protective roles. Giving them a hard time is worth a minimal effort. Predicting can urge scum to rethink their decisions and possibly make ones less favorable to them. It prepares us for day two. Nobody was saying anything on the thread and I wanted something-anything-to talk about.

3. How the fuck is everyone so sure about a third faction or alternative killing role?

I don't know why this is the first time that your aware of my presence, maybe I never got involved with the whole RVS stage properly, or properly announce myself.

I have never played a game where we have tried to predict the nightkill so apologies on not seeing what kind of benefits it has. If I had actually participated in a game where I've seen it done and seen the affects it has, then I could have possibly had a different view on it, but since I've never been in a game where it has been done, I had a hard time seeing the negatives and positives it has.

And as for your third point, I thought I had seen someone quote a phrase that mentioned serial killer and I thought it was from the Mod. Reading back at the mods posts in this game, there was no mention of it so my bad for misreading into it, I don't know who quoted it so I can't check back on that either. However a game of this size, I'm going to presume that there will be a alternative killing role, possibly a vigilante, or another scum faction, or possibly a lone serial killer. Otherwise it's going to be quite a big mafia team if we're going to guess the ratio is 1 mafia to 4 town.

[Kop]

Let's go ISO by ISO and provide a short summary of each player because I'm bored and I feel like I haven't really analysed this game in any substantial way yet

I feel like some of these will be easier than others but what the hell...

1 Kop:
I'm surprised about his interest about my RVS vote, probs NAI though
Notable comment that he expects more than 1 NK
Naked vote on roster - note to self check later as this out of context when in ISO mode

2. Billy Pilgrim
Hehe liverpool fans on top of the player list - I'd lol if I was #3 (or jjd)
I get the carcass vote in context of first few pages
I also like that he retracts upon explanation
Note to self double check the supposed carca pm slip thing, assume negative due to no press but curious anyway...
Note to self - check why billy might like JJD

3.Cliff Booth
The main thing from this ISO is I wonder what I was close about Hopkirk with.. Cliff?

4. Rick Dalton
I have a way to read Rick which says town so far, wont be revealing my secrets here

5. Sharon Tate
Largely inactive. Did google the real sharon tate and read about her murder, you learn something new every day

6. Hectic
Miller claim, I'll make a call on this when some conflicting wagons and stuff make hectic pick a side. For now its irrelevenant
Interesting that he says I have picked guessed his alignment previously...

Eevee
My gut feeling is we do not see things in a similar way, is that AI? Unsure so far

Gamma
I dunno, always struggle to read gamma:(


Tired now. More later

I was wanting to clarify that game you were on about, I didn't have any recall to it at the time I asked the question. Curiosity killed the cat, I guess.

[Kop]

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

I don't like this vote, and also the explanation isn't up to the vote either. I just feel that it is a clean sheep vote because he likes the people that are on the wagon, I understand following your town reads, but there could be a possibility that there could be scum on the wagon that he is town reading. Or the other possibility is that Billy is scum and can have that confidence in the people on the wagon are town because he would know for sure they are town. He didn't like the Rooster wagon, but he would know that it would look bad for sheeping onto that wagon because of the manner and way the votes went.

He also states that he is not a fan of the Cliff slot, but hasn't really divulged into why he doesn't like that slot, or also interact with Cliff to debate with him to why he doesn't specifically like that slot.

VOTE: Billy

[Kop]

Hectic, we're trying to move onto a Cliff wagon given so many people don't want to vote roster

I see, I'll take your word for it O Great IC.

VOTE: Cliff

Don't like this vote either. No substance, but if it happened to be a lynch at some point, any questions aimed at this vote, wouldn't be justified because he can easily hide behind it was a pressure vote and I was told that this was the thing so I joined.

[Kop]

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

So what makes you not like his slot. Dont think you mentioned him before this game.

Are you just voting for cliff because of who was already voting for him. If so why? What about there cases did you agree with.

There's really nothing that jumps out as town to me from his slot. I also like the two slots he is voting. I was townleaning Elly, I like hopkirk's slot, and I've liked Gamma's slot. All seemed to be pushing the game forward. I didn't hop on the roster wagon, because I didn't see the point in pushing a slot that was gonna be replaced, and Cliff has been around but not posting much great content.

Bit of a soft clarification about his vote, still don't like the reasoning, it's weak and doesn't spell out a great effort to explain why he's scum reading Cliff. Vote still stands.

[Kop]

Guys, that’s my stunt double. I need him, or else I’d have to do my own stunts. I’m an alcoholic, how am I supposed to that drunk?

Sorry, but I think it's time to drop the gimmick and play Mafia. Prove to me that he has done some kind of scum hunting and I will let him be. I feel like his posts are mostly hollow though, so I don't see why you can't drop him and hire a double stunt that actually can do the work for you,

Can't disagree with any of this.

[Kop]

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

I don't like this vote, and also the explanation isn't up to the vote either. I just feel that it is a clean sheep vote because he likes the people that are on the wagon, I understand following your town reads, but there could be a possibility that there could be scum on the wagon that he is town reading. Or the other possibility is that Billy is scum and can have that confidence in the people on the wagon are town because he would know for sure they are town. He didn't like the Rooster wagon, but he would know that it would look bad for sheeping onto that wagon because of the manner and way the votes went.

He also states that he is not a fan of the Cliff slot, but hasn't really divulged into why he doesn't like that slot, or also interact with Cliff to debate with him to why he doesn't specifically like that slot.

VOTE: Billy

So if you dont think it was a townie thing to sheep teh rooster wagon. Why did you also sheep it?

Based on someones comment that Rooster done naked votes in a previous game and he was scum. I believed it warranted some pressure. I was also never going to be on that wagon right till the end of the day.

[Kop]

How do you feel about Bob as a source?

In what sense do you mean?

[Kop]

Oh, it was Bob that made that comment about Rooster with the other game. I just checked his ISO as you pointed that out.

[Kop]

That doesn't really alter anything that I had to say about my vote on Rooster.

[Kop]

Can we get some votes on elements ffs

okay dear.

VOTE: elements

I don't town read Elements, but I will say this vote absolutely stinks.

[Kop]

I don't town read Tchill either. I have 1 experience with chill, and he was town in that game, I'm not getting the same feeling here in this game.

[Kop]

I want elements or Cliff atm.

A last second flash is near certain to hit town. Scum will lurk it out.

Can you put your case out to why you would vote for both of them?

Is your elements vote based on what is usually used by scum, but IMO that's not exactly a concrete reason because 'usually' isn't exactly a motivation to scum read someone. But you've never built on that or necessarily interacted with him, and seem to be going on what everyone else has been given him and making your own mind up.

I do get what your saying about a last second flash wagon is likely to hit town or possibly out another PR. I would rather not go for the watcher, and if Cliff is anything other than a PR, I'd likely like to go for the VT.

[Kop]

VOTE: Aaron

I can't disagree with any of the votes on him, I don't think it's a good idea voting a non counter claimed PR claim. Yes he may be fake claiming, but I believe in giving him a chance to try prove his claim, rather than lynching him without that chance.

[Kop]

Man I've got a lot to catch up on, I've just got back off holiday. This is going to take some time.

[Kop]

VOTE: tchill

Im not fully caught up, but why are you Voting for a claimed tracker? We fucked up and ended up lynching a claimed watcher which proved true.

Why are you voting for people who either vote for you or shout for your lynch?

[Kop]

I feel refreshed and full after last night.

Killing the traitor when gobble wasn't particularly townread is interesting. So I'm gonna iso him to see if I can make sense of that.

But also, that's two nights in a row with only one kill. So either theres been a protective that's quite lucky with targets or theres only one killing faction and no vigs.

I highly doubt that the doctor has successfully protected either potentially the same person both nights, or 2 different targets. So I reckon there is only 1 killing faction and no vigilante, or the vigilante has chosen not to kill both nights.

And why is killing gobble an interesting kill?

[Kop]

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

There could be a chance that they are leaving them alive, to keep some doubts that they are telling the truth about there claim.

I understand that leaving those roles in the game, it gives them a chance of finding scum or hitting lucky and catching one of them out, but scum must have confidence in a game of this size they might not be anywhere near them and they won't get caught at this stage of the game.

[Kop]

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

There could be a chance that they are leaving them alive, to keep some doubts that they are telling the truth about there claim.

I understand that leaving those roles in the game, it gives them a chance of finding scum or hitting lucky and catching one of them out, but scum must have confidence in a game of this size they might not be anywhere near them and they won't get caught at this stage of the game.

but the shear amount of claims wouldnt scum of knocked one off. Unless one of teh pool is scum and they dont want to reduce its size

I agree with you. That could be another factor of why they haven't shot inside of that pool.

[Kop]

VOTE: Eve

The traitor thought eve was scum lets get eve

I can understand your reasoning, but we are only going of what Gook thought, doesn't necessarily mean that Eve is scum based on that. If Eve was scum, surely scum should have seen that or Eve, and brought him in rather than killing him?

[Kop]

He knows who the scum are, but scum don't know who he is. So I think what Bob could be meaning that he was trying to reach out.

He (gook) was also in a neighbourhood.

[Kop]

The last time i ran a game on a different site with the role traitor, i made it clear to scum that there is a traitor but they didn't know who it was. I don't know if it can be the same case in this game however.

[Kop]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

[Kop]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

do you think JJD might be getting bussed by cliff?

We can't rule it out, but in this situation, it's hard to see considering scum have almost full numbers baring the traitor so they are kind of in a good position, but on the other side of the argument, they could have set this plan up during the night phase to try cement Cliff into a stronger town read for later on in the game when the numbers have dwindled, and left in the unknowns.

[Kop]

I've not received any fruit any night.

(For some reason, can't post on mobile data as I.P address is blacklisted, so have to wait till have WIFI to make a post. Will look into it today.)