Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[AaronFrost]

Sup guys

[AaronFrost]

Sup guys

Woah, is that really AaronFrost???
Been wanting to play a game with you for quite a while, sir.
The wiki tells of the most legendary of stories regarding you.

For example:
"This one time, it was just AaronFrost and 3 mafia left. He was just a vanilla townie, but by using his AaronFrost haggling skills, he recieved 2 dayvig shots from the mod. He shot the first 2 scum, and then bluffed the third into conceding. Masterful play."

That's right. And don't make me do it this game you scoundrels.

[AaronFrost]

I'll get around to skimming this game at some point but gotta take care of some college stuff first.

[AaronFrost]

@AaronFrost I agree that taking care of college stuff first is the right priority. Replacing in is good for the site, but it's better when you do it only when you're ready to play.

Yeah sorry I'm still reading my way through the thread. I'll be caught up by tonight.

[AaronFrost]

A few hours

[AaronFrost]

Alright figured I'd start off this massive game by giving my thoughts on everyone so far.

Spoiler:

Kop - Town Lean. Hasn't posted a ton, but the posts he has made feel pretty townie to me.

Billy - Slight Town Lean. Some of his early game posts were pinging me a bit, but I like some of his more recent stuff so I'm good with town Billy for now.

Cliff - Null. He comes off as pretty aggressive, but I can't tell if it's town aggressiveness or scum aggressiveness. Probably leaning towards scum aggressive if I had to pick.

Rick - Scum Lean. Feel like most of his posts are lacking in content and he seems content to just coast on by right now.

Sharon - Null. Hasn't posted enough for me to get a solid read.

Hectic - Town Lean. Hectic is acting exactly how I'd expect Hectic to. A lot of it seems genuine however so I'm fine with him as town for now.

Eevee - Slight Scum Lean. Seems a bit too interested in the inactive roster!slot.

Gamma - Town Lean. I think I believe his mason claim, and he's playing similar to how I'd expect town!Gamma to play.

Dredd - Town by default if Gamma's mason claim ends up being true. Seems to be a bit aggressive but I think it comes from a town point of view.

Elements - Null. What's with you and self-voting? Either way, I have a really hard time reading him. If I had to pick I'd probably be leaning scum.

Titus - Null. Hasn't really done much of anything.

Hopkirk - Town Lean. Early game memes aside, his posts feel pretty townie. I thought he was a hydra for a hot second early on.

roster - Null. He's done absolutely nothing. Not really a fan of wagons on inactive players though.

Carca - Town Read. Probably one of my stronger town reads here honestly.

Garmr - Null. Feel like he could go either way honestly.

Tchill - Slight Scum Read. Doesn't really feel like he's trying all that hard and seems to have little interest in the game currently.

dave - Strong Town Read. He's one of the few who's trying to get discussions going and pushing players and I get a lot of town vibes from him.

profii - Town Read. Like his analysis and feels townie in general.

bob - Null. I'd like to see more from him.

YOUAREGREAT - Nullish Town. Great username, but also hard to read. I think I'm okay with putting them as town for now.

Sorry this took a while. I'll admit there were parts I briefly skimmed, but that's what I got so far.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Rick Dalton

I think my vote is good here for now. I'd like to see him pick up the pace a bit. I realize how hypocritical that sounds replacing into an inactive slot but hey what can you do.

[AaronFrost]

Elements - Null. What's with you and self-voting?

It's my town tell

Pretty anti-town town tell if you ask me.

Also don't believe your SK claim.

[AaronFrost]

Also don't believe your SK claim.

What?! Did your phone auto-correct "do"??

I'm typing on a computer dude. No auto-correct here.

[AaronFrost]

I'll admit once again that I mostly skimmed through the thread to get caught up quickly so my reads were mostly gut based.

I'm gonna ISO players I find scummy eventually.

[AaronFrost]

I actually like that post for town!dave. I don't think scum would go out of their way to comment on that.

[AaronFrost]

There has been a lot of posts since I last checked in and it looks a bunch of posters - is there some important information i need to take from 10 pages or so

Gamma/Dredd are possibly masons.

Elements claimed SK but make of that what you will. I don't believe the claim personally.

Lots of arguing about meta between Rick/Gamma/Carca. Trying to figure out what to make of that currently.

I replaced Skellen.

[AaronFrost]

Oh nice. I'm the Miller Multitasking Fruit Vendor Friendly Neighbor 2 Shot Roleblocker 3 Shot Doctor IC Jailkeeper

[AaronFrost]

We're gonna end up lynching some stupid bs today arent we

Isn't that usually what happens D1?

[AaronFrost]

aaronfrost reads are bad and theres way too many scum in the list

Fair. This is my first time playing a large so I didn't know how many scum there would be. Now that I'm actually keeping up with this actively instead of reading through 50+ pages in 2-3 hours I'll start to develop more solid reads.

[AaronFrost]

I haven't crumbed SK, I have crumbed my role.

Doesn't telling everyone that you've crumbed your role kind of defeat the purpose of crumbing in the first place?

[AaronFrost]

I mean I feel like if you're gonna tell everyone that you crumbed then you may as well just claim at that point.

[AaronFrost]

Yeah seems like at this point our options are Elements or No Lynch. I know which option I'm choosing.

VOTE: Elements

[AaronFrost]

I'd probably be okay with a Tchill wagon too, but there just isn't enough time for that to happen.

[AaronFrost]

Spoiler:

Ah, OK, that makes sense, but I think my serious vote on roster is also good, right?

From where I'm standing the logic is flawless. Just remember it's a early vote so people night take it seriously. Other then self-voting - a ridiculous thing to do in almost any scenario - the first vote made by someone is almost never a talking point.

Anyway, I had another look at my role PM and apparently I'm a "Survivor Miller", not a "Miller Survivor". Not sure if the order of the words matter but thought I better bring it up anyway

In the case of your role, I don't think the order matters it's just convention to put modifiers before the role name eg loved watcher rather than watcher that is loved

Doesn't large balance do with either prs or more scum?
I'm not talking about lousy things like godfather or rolecop though.

Are we talking about setup now?
I was thinking something like 4 mafs - 2 or 3 power roles maybe rolecop and roleblocker maybe an x shot strongman, an SK or other anti-town third party, 3 -5 town power roles based on strength - 1 or 2 investigative roles (watcher and tracker would be a fun combo) maybe a protective role like doc or bg, possibly 2 or 3 masons. With 3 though, I'd expect one to be mafia for funness.
So maybe something like:
1/2 invest, 1 protective, 1/2 utility - Town
1 invest, 1/2 utility - Mafia
Third party - maybe bulletproof of some description

These are my 2 "crumb" posts. It's the reason I picked watcher as an example for everything.

That's not really a crumb tbh

[AaronFrost]

I voted Elements because, to put it bluntly, I don't believe his claim. I also don't see how him mentioning watcher a bunch of times as an example somehow counts as a crumb. Maybe I'm in the wrong here but that's not really much of a crumb (and if it is, it's not a very good one).

[AaronFrost]

It gives us that he is a really bad player for starters. And jack isn't shit. He's just off!

Unnecessary comment tbh

[AaronFrost]

And what would me being a bad player signify anyways? What information would that give to the rest of the town? Okay so this perceived "bad player" is gone. Now what? You guys are back to square one.

[AaronFrost]

I take breadcrumbing as hinting at your role in such a way in such a way that a) isn't immediately obvious and b) can potentially reveal useful information to the town after the player dies.

Elements didn't really do either of those things. And not only was his crumb not very good, he outright stated that he crumbed his role, which kind of goes against the point of crumbing in the first place.

@Tchill:

I know I should probably ignore it but anyone who knows me irl knows that I don't take comments like that well, especially if they're not constructive. If I made a bad play then fine I understand that, but the tone with which it was said rubbed me the wrong way.

[AaronFrost]

Trust me, I know I'm far from the best player here, I'm relatively new here and to forum mafia in general.

Normally I'm a pretty chill person (pun slightly intended), but sometimes I lose my cool at even the tiniest things because of stress (college is a bitch lmao).

Anyways I'm over it now. It's all good. No hard feelings Dredd.

[AaronFrost]

Holy shit I leave for work come back home and the game has advanced like 8 pages.

[AaronFrost]

I think Elements is town

Why are you so confident in that Elements will flip town?

[AaronFrost]

Good luck with your surgery Titus.

I'm gonna ISO Tchill before I decide to join that wagon. I just finished a game with him where he was scum and I want to look for similarities between that game and this one.

[AaronFrost]

Because players on here tend to change their playstyle from game to game, so looking I feel like looking for differences won't be too helpful.

[AaronFrost]

PRs outing results unprompted, in particular revealing what roles are in the game (!!) is another head scratcher. Can voyeurs be scum?

Can we lynch Dave for this post. Dave scum have day chat do you think I would out the doctor if I was a scum pr.

But why would you do it as a town PR? There was no reason for you to out that info.

[AaronFrost]

PRs outing results unprompted, in particular revealing what roles are in the game (!!) is another head scratcher. Can voyeurs be scum?

Can we lynch Dave for this post. Dave scum have day chat do you think I would out the doctor if I was a scum pr.

But why would you do it as a town PR? There was no reason for you to out that info.

Why wouldn't I? I have my reasons if you can't think outside the box then you that's on you.

Because I'd prefer if you didn't reveal information that could potentially benefit scum?

[AaronFrost]

Yeah I'm not really seeing the case against Tchill either.

His opening in the game I played with him was more lackadaisical and non-serious, but here his tone feels different and more like he's focused on solving. I'd probably put him as a null-town lean for now.

[AaronFrost]

Good luck with your surgery Titus.

I'm gonna ISO Tchill before I decide to join that wagon. I just finished a game with him where he was scum and I want to look for similarities between that game and this one.

tsk tsk. not a good way to catch scum. i dont suggest doing that.

And why would you suggest not doing that? Especially after I've already done it.

I'm not so much trying to catch scum here, but I'm more so trying to narrow down the scum pool by townhunting.

[AaronFrost]

I'm like 95% confident that davesaz is town.

I also believe that Garmr is telling the truth as dumb of a move as that was, so he is probably town.

[AaronFrost]

Wow, the mod was online on another site while we were waiting for the Elements flip. I feel very betrayed and think modkilling a scum is the only way to make it up to us. Don't make me reveal which site lil!

VOTE: aaron

I'm doing this or tchill today.

One day a policy lynch will hit scum. Can I insult Elements playstyle if by some weird coincidence I see him around?

Sorry to hear about your terminal illness carcalilly. Kind of offended.

-kork

It should have. Shame we had to policy lynch.

VOTE: tchill

Not really a fan of these posts from Hopkirk here. Trying to justify the Elements lynch by using the phrase "policy lynch" feels like a strange narrative to push.

VOTE: Hopkirk

[AaronFrost]

Wow, the mod was online on another site while we were waiting for the Elements flip. I feel very betrayed and think modkilling a scum is the only way to make it up to us. Don't make me reveal which site lil!

VOTE: aaron

I'm doing this or tchill today.

One day a policy lynch will hit scum. Can I insult Elements playstyle if by some weird coincidence I see him around?

Sorry to hear about your terminal illness carcalilly. Kind of offended.

-kork

It should have. Shame we had to policy lynch.

VOTE: tchill

Not really a fan of these posts from Hopkirk here. Trying to justify the Elements lynch by using the phrase "policy lynch" feels like a strange narrative to push.

VOTE: Hopkirk

No comment on bob thinking the same thing but longer?

Elements amendments to his pr claim WERE ACTUALLY fake. He could have summarised it/explained it in different words and he said he couldn't. He then self voted/refused to do anything else/explain himself. That's either caught scum, or town that should be policy lynched for trying to make their town game look scummy for future advantage, or town who doesn't care whatsoever. What would you call it?

-Hop

I mean I can understand him getting confused by the wording of his role PM. It specifically said "Once, at night," which is usually said when the role is 1-shot.

That's just typical Elements play from my experience with him, although I agree that playing bad town on purpose to benefit your scum game is anti-wincon and makes it easy for you to get caught when you actually do role scum.

[AaronFrost]

I think you forgot about the Friendly Neighbor part.

[AaronFrost]

Yes, because Scum would claim Voyeur of all the roles on the wiki. COME ON!

Scum!Garmr claimed voyeur because it uses the exactly the information that they had. When Gamma turned up dead, it would be easy to assume that the doc was on Carca. But they don't know who the doc is. Partly it's the timing of the claim for me. I don't think town!Garmr would have claimed. How likely is it that town has a watcher and a voyeur?

Probably pretty likely given the size of the game.

[AaronFrost]

I think you forgot about the Friendly Neighbor part.

hi. you were graciously saved. Who do you think is scum?

I appreciate it o gracious one.

I'll have to get back to you on that later though as I need to head to work now.

[AaronFrost]

This is trash and surface level scum filler. I expect more coming from the Hollow Knight.

Hey man don't underestimate the Hollow Knight. He may be small in stature, but he will cut you down.

[AaronFrost]

I think you forgot about the Friendly Neighbor part.

hi. you were graciously saved. Who do you think is scum?

Right now I think scum is in {Hopkirk, bob and maybe Hectic?}

Hopkirk especially seemed really eager to try and justify the Elements lynch.

bob less so. I understand his logic for not believing the Macho/1-Shot claim, but his vote at the end of the day felt opportunistic.

Hectic seems to have just disappeared. Maybe he's researching articles on the wiki about how to play Day 2 as scum, but I'd like him to come in and post.

[AaronFrost]

the fuck going on

I wish I knew the answer to this question.

[AaronFrost]

the fuck going on

I wish I knew the answer to this question.

What question? It was an informative statement. Do you see a question mark?

There was nothing informative in that statement
~Aaron

Why do you ask?
~Frost

[AaronFrost]

Aaron is a nice balance between goofy and insightful although I sometimes forget about his presence in this game

sorry pal

It's fine. Lots of big personalities in this game lol.

[AaronFrost]

Eevee is an okay wagon right now, I like it much better than the Tchill wagon. I briefly mentioned in my catch-up post upon replacing in that I was scum-leaning her for posting mostly fluff and focusing too much on an inactive slot and that opinion hasn't really changed much, just been repressed by stronger scum reads.

VOTE: Eevee

[AaronFrost]

Anyone else want to say something stupidly incriminating for everyone to easily jump on?

Sure I'll get right on that.

[AaronFrost]

Eevee is an okay wagon right now, I like it much better than the Tchill wagon. I briefly mentioned in my catch-up post upon replacing in that I was scum-leaning her for posting mostly fluff and focusing too much on an inactive slot and that opinion hasn't really changed much, just been repressed by stronger scum reads.

VOTE: Eevee

If you were scum reading her when you subed in. Why only vote for her now?

I would of assumed if it as you say you would of voted her up earlier.

In post 2378 you dont even mention eve.

Yet all of sudden you want to vote for her after not mentioning anything about her sicne then. The reasons you gave predated that post. So what changed?

You thought she was scum and that you opinion hasnt changed much but she wasnt on your scum list.

VOTE: Aaron

Feels like a contradiction to me

So just because I don't mention it that means that I'm not scumreading her? At that point there were other I found much scummier and honestly, her posting since 2491 has only gotten worse. It feels like she's trying to dodge the fact that she slipped up. Why does she want to push Titus despite admitting that she has no real reason to? Why does she want to lynch Billy all of a sudden? Nothing she's saying recently is making any sense.

If you were to ask me the question Carca asked me earlier, Eevee would be on the list now.

[AaronFrost]

Hey Carcalilly, can you put your IC status to good use and vote Tchill, Aaron, or Billy?

-Hop

I don't want you to eat rope today since it's worth testing that theory, and Aaron/Tchill were bigger independent scumreads than you today. I've voted/ want to lynch Tchill/Aaron today.

This makes no sense either. Calling for votes on Billy for some reason? But then backtracking and saying he doesn't want Billy lynched today. We also can't test the theory if Cliff isn't the nea.

[AaronFrost]

They're part of the scumteam right?
They're independently scumreads of mine. Billy jumped off Tchill at the first big wagon with fairly bad justification after voting onto it when it was small. Aaron was pushing against it and against me for pushing it. Now they're both on the counterwagon- and if Eevee is town then that's probably the easiest mislynch to push right now since they aren't really posting content.

-Hop

So I'm scum because I'm against one wagon that had poor justification, but support another wagon that has pretty good reason to be happening right now.

You scum buddies with Eevee?

[AaronFrost]

Both Hop and Eevee are trying to push a lynch on Billy with some weak ass reasoning.

We lynch one of these two today.

[AaronFrost]

What do you think of Billy's VT claim?

I can see it as an opportunistic claim from mafia but it would put them in an extremely bad situation unless scum has a way to stop nea. If he is vt idt we should lynch him but its a tough call

Okay so when I first read this post, I interpreted it as you were okay with lynching Billy, but now that I look back yeah I'm not sure why I interpreted it that way. Sorry about that.

[AaronFrost]

Looks like Tex and Aaron are straight up scumclaiming.

Either that or very selectively reading and misrepresenting.

I said I have 3 scumreads. These are the three people I'd vote for today. You're presenting me saying I'd prefer to vote for tchill (who I'm voting now) and Aaron (who I voted earlier) as saying I backtracked. I'd prefer to vote Billy over anyone except Tchill/Aaron as is absolutely clear from my words and vote history. Texcat, I'd like you to reread then substantially expand on what you thought I meant because I'm struggling to see how town could reach that conclusion legitimately.

So why bring up Billy at all then? Why not just say "I want to lynch between Aaron/Tchill today" and be done with it. No one ever said you had to mention three scumreads.

Also dislike the use of the phrase "straight up scumclaiming."

[AaronFrost]

Things I've said that Aaron is conveniently ignoring

- I've had the three of them in my scumreads D1 too. I said they were all independently scummy and now they've got groupscum points.

Aaron is suggesting I'm only scumreading them as a group.

- I'm voting Tchill/said earlier I'd vote Aaron too. I didn't change my vote to Billy.

Aaron is implying I want to start a billy wagon. The obvious inference from what I said is that Billy is my third preference vote. Aaron is suggesting both that me not voting Billy is a scummy backtrack, and suggesting at the same time that I was trying to push Billy. Can't have it both ways. Definitely misrepresenting the read.

When did I ever imply that you thought me/Tchill/Billy were a scumteam?

And again why were you calling for votes on Billy if you didn't want him to be lynched? It's pretty clear to everyone here that you're scumreading both me and Tchill so why bring up a third option out of nowhere? And one that feels very out of left field.

[AaronFrost]

I forgot Alonzo was in this game tbh.

[AaronFrost]

So now we're about to lynch a tracker claim the day after lynching a watcher claim?

This fucking game is chaos man.

[AaronFrost]

hahahahahaha y'all actually trying to lunch half way into the day what the fuck

I mean I don't know about you but I usually eat lunch around 12pm which is exactly halfway through a 24 hour day.

[AaronFrost]

So now we're going from one wagon on an inactive player to another wagon on a more inactive player. Do the people voting Alonzo right now actually think he's scum?

[AaronFrost]

I believe Tchill's claim honestly but tex feels like a weird choice to target personally. I'd have probably tracked someone a bit more active that I was scumreading personally but hey I'm not the tracker so what do i know.

[AaronFrost]

I am ok with a policy lynch on Garmr but I'd be very shocked if he flips scum. Garmr tends to be off the wall ridiculous as town.

Who was calling for a policy lynch on Garmr?

[AaronFrost]

@Garmr:

can you walk me through the case against Dave because I'm not really seeing it.

[AaronFrost]

I still think Garmr is town actually.

Bad play is bad play, but this feels like a bad townie play to me.

[AaronFrost]

Profii hasn't really been on my radar honestly. His posts have felt mostly townie to me. I don't think scum would defend Garmr here.

[AaronFrost]

Alonzo are you actually going to do anything other than cast blatant OMGUS votes?

[AaronFrost]

Your voyeur claim is fake. I don't believe that anyone can be that bad a player to use the role in that way. That's not what you do. Saying it was to "protect" carcalilly by making scum think there is a doctor doesn't hold water. You backtracked when you found out that what you claimed was impossible, and nobody seems to care that the thing you backtracked from was blatantly

not what that role should do

.

As much as I'd love for this to be true, I think this is town!Garmr. From what I can gather looking at his meta, town!Garmr does stupid shit like this all the time.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: JJD

Not sure on this but I want to see how JJD v Alonzo plays out.

Personally I'd rather lynch Alonzo out of the two. He's had plenty of chances to produce content and yet he's done nothing. He's a good lynch right now.

VOTE: Alonzo

[AaronFrost]

Yeah

[AaronFrost]

Probably because of the fact that you've done nothing.

[AaronFrost]

What post did you express this scumread? I did control F Titus and well...let's just say I've seen cleaner hogwash.

+1 to this. This is the first time you've mentioned a scum read on Titus.

[AaronFrost]

Why

[AaronFrost]

What makes it too big a townlist? 3 are claims/strong meta. That leaves 6 townreads which I'm surprised you'd find unreasonable.
I assume people are reading obvtown as 'townread'.

What's your townlist look like.

To me, "obvtown" is much stronger than "townread"

[AaronFrost]

What makes it too big a townlist? 3 are claims/strong meta. That leaves 6 townreads which I'm surprised you'd find unreasonable.
I assume people are reading obvtown as 'townread'.

What's your townlist look like.

To me, "obvtown" is much stronger than "townread"

So you assumed 'hopkirk thinks 11 people are almost confirmed town and it's not weird at all he has no regular townreads' instead of the more obvious 'hopkirk is calling his townreads obtown?'

First category should legit be obvious town. Second category is regular townreads.

Interested in your thought process behind that
Also interested in the reads list you've notable excluded despite having problems with mine

Was that supposed to be obvious? Why not just say obv-town for the strongest townreads and townreads for the rest? How did you think people were going to interpret that?

Why is Hectic in the first category? What has he done that screams town to you?

I haven't been prompted or felt it necessary to make a reads list since I replaced in, but if you'd like I'm more than happy to.

Your entire post feels way too defensive honestly.

[AaronFrost]

Whatever you morons just hammer already.
you deserve a better pedigree of player' anyhow, I will have to look in a different game

Fixed

How is this beneficial to town?

How is you acting like a little bitch Beneficial to town

That's.. not even remotely necessary.

[AaronFrost]

Just came in to say I'm NOT gonna read. I have hit the point of no return with how apathetic this game has become. I gained no new info from D2 posts that I had read, and I don;t see much of anything going on. It's like everyone is isolated on a different island and every single one of us believes the world ends where their line of sight does.

I can understand this sentiment honestly. This game has been very chaotic and hard to follow. I think scum is content with the current gamestate because there's been a lot of confusion and very little cohesion with this group of players.

[AaronFrost]

I'll get to them shortly. Haven't had as much time to invest in this as I'd like admittedly because of college.

[AaronFrost]

Billy's town. His scumgame was reserved/cautious/as far as I can tell he subbed out due to pressure from it. He has a lot of natural feeling posts this game.

Agree with this. I've played with Billy in the Newbie Queue and this feels very much like his town game. I just hope he doesn't mislynch me again like he did in 1949

[AaronFrost]

Titus is a hard null with minor scum equity from voting patterns. I want other people's thoughts on the slot, how Titus usually acts, and I want to actually hear stuff from Titus.

Never played with Titus before and honestly she's a hard null for me right now. Pretty low content slot with not much to go off of there.

[AaronFrost]

tbh i thought you and KOP were the same person for a while LMAO

Guess you could call him...

Kopkirk

[AaronFrost]

I still think Eevee is scum btw.

[AaronFrost]

Just came in to say I'm NOT gonna read. I have hit the point of no return with how apathetic this game has become. I gained no new info from D2 posts that I had read, and I don;t see much of anything going on. It's like everyone is isolated on a different island and every single one of us believes the world ends where their line of sight does.

I can understand this sentiment honestly. This game has been very chaotic and hard to follow. I think scum is content with the current gamestate because there's been a lot of confusion and very little cohesion with this group of players.

Basically why I'm leaning against scum Alonzo. There hasn't been a counterwagon and it got too quiet when the wagon started to build.

I can see a fair few scum just lurking.

Any thoughts on my recent thoughts?

Would not surprise me. I think it's more likely that scum are lurking simply because they can with the current game state.

Alonzo has stepped it up a bit but I'm not sure if it's genuine or because we called him out on his lurking.

[AaronFrost]

Actually that might be more indicative of scum!Alonzo if he's only active because we've essentially asked him to be.

PEDIT: Not sure honestly. I'll need to ISO you but I'm still on board with lynching Alonzo today.

[AaronFrost]

Holy shit we have less than 2 days and this game is dragging.

Alonzo is at L-2 right?

[AaronFrost]

Vig should shoot Eevee.

I agree with this. Titus is still a null for me and we can sort her tomorrow.

[AaronFrost]

Where did Carcalilly go? She was one of the more active players this game and she just kind of disappeared.

Surprised Kop hasn't been replaced yet.

[AaronFrost]

I'm getting the sense that a lot of people are either just busy or their interest in this game has dwindled.

[AaronFrost]

btw, I need this game to finish by like early-mid November for exam stuff. If we have another night as long as the last one then I'll probably sub out if I'm still alive since there's be no way I could see it to completion without taking a month long V/La (which might be allowed actually looking at the Kop situation).

Echoing this sentiment. The life of a college student man.

[AaronFrost]

V/LA until Tuesday

The fact that scum killed their own traitor is hilarious.

[AaronFrost]

Will catch up later today.

[AaronFrost]

Ngl I'm actually surprised scum didn't go for you. gobbled seemed like a weird choice to me with all the claimed PRs in the game. But hey if scum wants to kill their own traitor then that works for me.

[AaronFrost]

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

There could be a chance that they are leaving them alive, to keep some doubts that they are telling the truth about there claim.

I understand that leaving those roles in the game, it gives them a chance of finding scum or hitting lucky and catching one of them out, but scum must have confidence in a game of this size they might not be anywhere near them and they won't get caught at this stage of the game.

With how many claims there have been, and assuming scum know there's a traitor, it would've made much more sense for them to kill one of the PR claims. This feels like a wtf kill that backfired horribly for scum.

[AaronFrost]

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

There could be a chance that they are leaving them alive, to keep some doubts that they are telling the truth about there claim.

I understand that leaving those roles in the game, it gives them a chance of finding scum or hitting lucky and catching one of them out, but scum must have confidence in a game of this size they might not be anywhere near them and they won't get caught at this stage of the game.

but the shear amount of claims wouldnt scum of knocked one off. Unless one of teh pool is scum and they dont want to reduce its size

I think one of our claimed PRs is scum. Scum might also have a backup rolecop since their traitor was a rolecop.

[AaronFrost]

Like i said i wanna push titus but i dont have any real reasoning. Its just a feeling i have.

see at no point did he actualy give a reason for titus vote.

If he only had feeling and no reasoning why was his vote there all day 2

Even when he finaly voted titus. all he said i can vote here now.

Now added reasoning

Cant see his titus vote being anythign other than a vanity vote

yeah i never really had good reasoning on titus. but i still think hes scum.

but what do you mean by vanity here pride or worthless?

Is it just a gut feeling? Anything in particular that's causing you to scumread Titus?

[AaronFrost]

optimal claim order is
doc
tracker
me

Rolefishing much? Pretty sure we already have a claimed doc. And a claimed tracker.

[AaronFrost]

Hectic has been known to reference the wiki from time to time JJD is saying.

Hectic is clean because I say so. Throw in some meta and a few trust tells and it'll be fine. Welcome him to our townblock family Carca

You still haven't explained how or why Hectic is town.

[AaronFrost]

so we have carc and proffi prety much confirmed now. Well unless profii is 3rd party


profii claims back up tracker. Which means we have a tracker.

This is wrong on so many fronts.
A backup and the orginal role do not have to share alignments. There's a whole open dedicated to this concept. Unless gobbledygook crumbled his results, he passed them in the hood. If profli is town, then there should be crumbs or a 3rd neighbor.

A backup and original should share alignments, otherwise it'd give one team a huge advantage if the original dies.

I doubt scum would be neighbors with their traitor. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a traitor in the first place.

[AaronFrost]

Why the fuck is Aaron talking theory when we caught scum?

Because this is how I like to do catch-up. Read from where I last left off and respond to stuff I feel like responding to. Hadn't yet gotten to the part where JJD dug his own grave.

Is that hammer?

PEDIT: I'll check real quick

[AaronFrost]

From my count he is at L-3.

[AaronFrost]

AGAIN: CLIFF IS STILL SCUM BY MY FLIP. HE LIED ABOUT RECEIVING FRUIT FROM ME. HE IS A SCUM FRUIT VENDOR OF SOME SORT (probably my EXACT ROLE, which is DISLOYAL SIMPLE FRUIT VENDOR)

That's RIGHT. My action is only successful on Mafia Goons. So, why THE FUCK would he lie? It is because he thought I really gave fruit out to TOWN PRS, and he wanted to be fake confirmed.

Yeah no I don't buy this. Claiming disloyal after the fact is way too convenient.

[AaronFrost]

Am I?? Wanna lynch conf!Scum Cliff with me? I mean, if he flipped what he says he is then Billy is confirmed and Cliff already found the VT, so not a big deal, but you get ME as confirmed scum next, so that's a win-win for the town (a clear on Billy and a guilty on me by lynching what is now effectively a VT.)

HOWEVER, I know he's flipping RED, and then you get me as confirmed a townie, lynch scum and pseudo confirm Billy still (scum probably aren't stupid enough to fake an inno on their p). That's an even better scenario, don't you think?

Works the same way around no matter which order we lynch in.

Also are we sure there's only one VT? Either way, Billy is confirmed town if Cliff is nea.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd L-2

[AaronFrost]

Oh one thing actually. If he does get hammered before I return and flips scum fruit vendor then consider the earlier subject of the backup being the same alignment.

Maybe a niche of this game is scum and town having (mostly?) The same roles.

So you think there might be a town rolecop as well? Seems likely.

[AaronFrost]

Next two properties after the scumslip are Titus and Eevee. Everyone

remember.

While Titus is a liability to town because she voted me. I am leaning to her being more town.

This makes her a liability how?

[AaronFrost]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Pardon my newb-ness but what do you mean by reflexive role?

[AaronFrost]

I'm seriously getting to a point where I'm going to start blacklisting people who self-hammer as town, because it happens way to fucking often. So if by some miracle JJD isn't scum I'm gonna be pissed.

But yeah I can't see him flipping town here. Self-hammering this early in the day when he knows he's not escaping a lynch is 100% a scum move.

[AaronFrost]

I'm seriously getting to a point where I'm going to start blacklisting people who self-hammer as town, because it happens way to fucking often. So if by some miracle JJD isn't scum I'm gonna be pissed.

But yeah I can't see him flipping town here. Self-hammering this early in the day when he knows he's not escaping a lynch is 100% a scum move.

Lul, tell me about it. Though I've accepted it's just part of the game since emotions are a big part of mafia.
You think it's 100% a scum move despite experiencing first hand many town self-hammers in your time? The one in the Normal was 10 days short btw.
The oxford dictionary wiki labels this as contradictory.
That's kind of odd, Aaron, my friend.

JJD/A50's self hammer here is a scum move.

When Billy has questions he wants answered from Cliff, and other players are asking for more time to analyze the situation, scum don't want the opportunity for that to happen, especially when he probably knew he wasn't gonna escape the lynch today. The self hammer in Normal 2099 was just a dumb townie digging himself a hole he couldn't get out of.

[AaronFrost]

Probably a long night too.

PEDIT: Last minute attempt to save his ass maybe? That's all I can think of

[AaronFrost]

Also D3 is about to end before we get a Tchill replacement and we still don't know if they have any results.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Cliff

I think scum having a fruit vendor is likely. I dont remember who brought up the possibility of town and scum having similar roles but if that's the case then we probably have a rolecop and town has a tracker/watcher.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Cliff

I think scum having a fruit vendor is likely. I dont remember who brought up the possibility of town and scum having similar roles but if that's the case then we probably have a rolecop and town has a tracker/watcher.

Town has a rolecop.

You say we have role cop and town has?

[AaronFrost]

Fucking mobile formatting.

[AaronFrost]

this will probably get me lynched but I think Cliff is town and was making a gamble. He looked like he somewhat was regretting his actions around the end f the day. If he was scum I would expect a bit more of happy tone when he lynched JJD but all I could see was regret.

This actually makes him scummier for me since it felt like a last ditch effort to say "whoops I was wrong I screwed up" when he knew JJD was gonna flip town.

[AaronFrost]

this will probably get me lynched but I think Cliff is town and was making a gamble. He looked like he somewhat was regretting his actions around the end f the day. If he was scum I would expect a bit more of happy tone when he lynched JJD but all I could see was regret.

This actually makes him scummier for me since it felt like a last ditch effort to say "whoops I was wrong I screwed up" when he knew JJD was gonna flip town.

Yeah I got the impression he thought he was going to flip town but didn't want himself lynched. If it was scum trading I would expect a more smug response not a Oh fuck moment.

And if he's scum, he knows he's gonna flip town. It really felt like a last-ditch effort to cover his own ass when the flip happened.

[AaronFrost]

No fruit for me either.

PEDIT: Agreed

[AaronFrost]

JJD said he gave fruit to Billy right? Or was that you who gave him fruit?

[AaronFrost]

I'm pretty sure Billy is town regardless and there's absolutely no reason for bob to be lynched.

PEDIT: Okay I couldn't remember that's why I asked. Billy is only confirmed town then if Cliff is telling the truth about his role, but I'm still confident Billy is town either way.

PEDIT2.0: That confirms bob as town then right? Because he didn't receive a fruit N2.

[AaronFrost]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would still track them even if they failed to give them fruit.

[AaronFrost]

sad that my scumread got confirmed town. what roles can actually do that in a normal? publishing cop?

And that's a sad thing why? Because you're scum and can't push that mislynch anymore?

Scum pool right now (in the event Cliff flips town) is {Eevee, Kop, Titus, tex, Hopkirk, Hectic}

Mostly slots with low content who've been sitting back watching town destroy itself.

In the event Cliff flips scum, Dalton could be a partner. Not too sure who else atm.

[AaronFrost]

If I was scum would of stayed or at least tried to last. But this games to big to many personalities I don't mesh with and I don't have that obligation to put up with that fucking shit as town.

Add Garmr to that list too.

[AaronFrost]

Listen up everyone. NIGHT ONE

did you or did you not receive fruit?

answering after I die means nothing

Not a single fruit for me. Considering going to my local supermarket and purchasing some. I like strawberries personally.

[AaronFrost]

I honestly cannot remember a single thing of note that Kop or Titus have done.

Kop should've been replaced eons ago and it feels like Titus is barely paying attention to the game.

[AaronFrost]

Check your wikis, guys. Already said I haven't recieved fruit this game.

Addressed to Hopkirk:

Elaborate on your town/metaread on Aaron Fucking Frost of all people
I get he's a great guy, but he's actually been pinging me recently, there's definitely a change in tone from my other two town games with him.
He's a lot more assertive/aggressive here.

Why the fuck am I obvtown?

But yeah I am being a bit more aggressive here. I've been trying to play a bit more aggressively as town lately since too often I see town players not do anything and allow scum an easy victory. Look at my most recent Newbie (1959) for a good example of this.

PEDIT: So you're not scumreading anyone else?

[AaronFrost]

I'm not confirmed town and neither is Hectic. Hopkirk keeps insisting Hectic is town but I don't trust it.

[AaronFrost]

Is Rick known for fake claiming?

[AaronFrost]

Since I've basically exposed the entire reason I'm wanting an answer for this anyway,

I should clarify that the person that I actually sent fruit to on night one

hasnt answered yet.

I am very close to laying down my Cliff vote.
I'm happy to hear out how this is going to go but I think Cliff has to go.

Obviously Cliff is going to say 'well I really sent my fruit to xxxxx on N1' and I cannot see any kind of subtle nod from anyone suggesting they got the fruit and being ok that Cliff was posing a guilty on JJD when someone else knew it was infact just a guess.

So whoever this is person ends up being, Cliff + that person are going to have to go some to convince me that it's true.

My best guess is Cliff is a scum disloyal simple FV and he gave Billy the fruit to try and give credit to his own narrative as obviously Billy claimed so that was an easy win for Cliff.

That would suggest Bob is a VT which would be proven if Cliff flips as per my prediction but I dont know as I'm just musing right now so I will sit patiently and wait for the tale of this fruit and we will make a decision from there I guess

Cliff should eat rope today no matter what. If by some chance he's town loyal fruit vendor, then whoever he gave fruit to N1 is either conf town if they did receive it, or conf scum if they didn't.

[AaronFrost]

Ah, was confusing Vanilla Cop with Neopolitan. So many roles I've memorised from the wiki that I sometimes get confused in my own mind palace.
Makes your claim slightly town-indicative in that case.

Only slightly town indicitave? There is zero reason to claim vt in that situation when we thought there was a nea.

Hectic I can never get a good read on you.

[AaronFrost]

I'm going to vote for Cliff whenever we're ready. No one ever knows the vote count. Worst case is that we get a conf town out of the deal. In the meantime,

VOTE: Garmr

tex could be Cliff's partner is he flips scum. Don't like this bizarre attempt to distract from the Cliff/JJD situation.

Why the vote on Garmr?

[AaronFrost]

Check your wikis, guys. Already said I haven't recieved fruit this game.

Addressed to Hopkirk:

Elaborate on your town/metaread on Aaron Fucking Frost of all people
I get he's a great guy, but he's actually been pinging me recently, there's definitely a change in tone from my other two town games with him.
He's a lot more assertive/aggressive here.

Why the fuck am I obvtown?

But yeah I am being a bit more aggressive here. I've been trying to play a bit more aggressively as town lately since too often I see town players not do anything and allow scum an easy victory. Look at my most recent Newbie (1959) for a good example of this.

PEDIT: So you're not scumreading anyone else?

Interesting.
I had noticed the drastic change in your profile picture. I'll be honest: I was a little taken aback at first. I was thinking; is this the same AaronFrost I've known and loved for years?
Has age and self-hammers mellowed him into an entirely different player? Time will tell.
I'll have a look at the newbie game later.

That said, I still want to hear Hopkirk's reason for his town/metaread on you.

I had to change it to Grimm for Halloween I'm sorry lol. But yes it is me, the Aaron Fucking Frost that you know and love

[AaronFrost]

sad that my scumread got confirmed town. what roles can actually do that in a normal? publishing cop?

And that's a sad thing why? Because you're scum and can't push that mislynch anymore?

Scum pool right now (in the event Cliff flips town) is {Eevee, Kop, Titus, tex, Hopkirk, Hectic}

Mostly slots with low content who've been sitting back watching town destroy itself.

In the event Cliff flips scum, Dalton could be a partner. Not too sure who else atm.

Are you expecting Cliff to flip town? You seem to have less thought put into 'if he flips scum' here.

I'm about 50/50 on whether Cliff is gonna flip scum honestly. I think the pool I have there is still valid if scum decided to sacrifice Cliff here but I'll need to ISO him to know for sure. I already mentioned tex as a possible Cliff partner.

I'm not confirmed town and neither is Hectic. Hopkirk keeps insisting Hectic is town but I don't trust it.

You got a problem with Hectic 'Hectic' Hectic?

I love Hectic 'Motherfucking Hectic' Hectic.

Ah, was confusing Vanilla Cop with Neopolitan. So many roles I've memorised from the wiki that I sometimes get confused in my own mind palace.
Makes your claim slightly town-indicative in that case.

Only slightly town indicitave? There is zero reason to claim vt in that situation when we thought there was a nea.

Hectic I can never get a good read on you.

I want to hear more about how you feel about me and Hectic.

I want to hear more about why you're so certain Hectic is town. I feel like you've been all over the place and inconsistent with your reads, especially your meta reads on me and Billy. Is that the only reason I'm in your townpool right now is because of meta? I love playing with Hectic because he's unpredictable and entertaining but I can never get a solid read on the guy.

-Hop

[AaronFrost]

Obviously he disagrees with my townread but he never goes to say why he doesn't townread you/why he scumreads you.

Let's take a look through Aaron.

I'm not necessarily scumreading him at the moment and have already mentioned I find him hard to read which is why I'm not really townreading him either.

[AaronFrost]

I hope Aaron is ok. He never made that readslist he said he would two weeks ago. I'm hoping he isn't faking his death to avoid the thread (pulling a 'Kop')

Did I ever promise a readlist? If I did then I genuinely don't remember.

How would I be faking 'death' when I've been one of the more active posters today? Feels like a weird accusation to make.

Kop needs replacing honestly.

[AaronFrost]

Nice second page top in a row.

[AaronFrost]

We probably have 5 scum at the most, counting the dead traitor, so 4 remaining.

[AaronFrost]

I feel like scum is fine with Cliff being the lynch. I thi k that's either because he was determined to be able to be sacrificed, which is consistent with what happened yesterday, or it's because he is going to flip town. If he flips scum, then texcat is probably leading scum candidate tomorrow for trying to redirect the lynch. If he flips town I dont know where that leads us. I'd like a a swer from hopkirk on his progression vis-a-vis me and I think we're still waiting on answers from Rick and Lilly about fruit.

Huh? I did park my vote on Garmr while waiting to vote for Cliff until everyone had a chance to post. I would hardly characterize that as redirecting the lynch.

VOTE: Cliff L-2 I think

Cliff

, if you are town, can you confirm that you sent fruit to Kop on N1? He said he did not receive any fruit.

Don't like this vote either.

[AaronFrost]

I'm a simple loyal fruit vendor. I sent fruit to jjd on n1, billy n2, and bob n3.

So what was the point of asking everyone whether they received fruit N1?

[AaronFrost]

I'm cool with popcorn style mass claim.

tex is next Billy popcorned them, then tex picks someone and we keep on going.

I'm almost certain we don't have a vig.

[AaronFrost]

Worst case scenario if we lynch Cliff today is that we end up in LyLo tomorrow but that's only if there's 6 scum remaining. 7 total scum in a 21 player game seems like too much, even with a traitor.

I don't like how eager tex is to end this day when we have plenty of time left. I get not wanting to waste time but I would hardly say the day is stalling right now.

[AaronFrost]

Plain and simple i think your scum. Thus there is no solid clear on me and billy.

If you are town which i doubt then you flip does confirm me and billy

Cliff is probably a scum disloyal fruit vendor which would still clear you and Billy.

[AaronFrost]

I'm so good I always find scum on page 0. Don't sell me short dude.

[AaronFrost]

This kinda died eh.

Hope you feel better Titus.

[AaronFrost]

Why does this game not have a backup mod :/

No offense to LUV but like we really need one

[AaronFrost]

Are we mass claiming today or not?

I also don't get why people are trying to steer the lynch away from Cliff.

[AaronFrost]

I haven't claimed yet and personally I'd rather wait until it's universally agreed on that we're massclaiming before I do.

If we're not doing it today then this day needs to end. We're just stalling here.

[AaronFrost]

Given the slowness of the current gamestate, why are we even attempting to wagon someone else?

[AaronFrost]

with over 3 days left a different lynch could definitely happen. The fact that that's your first thought as to why we shouldn't change course just reaffirms my thoughts on you being scum

Yeah I know how much time we have left but do you actually think people are going to come on here and vote with how slow things have been today? If we can't even agree to lynch you today, then what makes you think that people are going to come together and lynch an inactive player?

[AaronFrost]

cliff flipping scum pretty much clears me as town.

What? Since when? Am I missing something here?

[AaronFrost]

Can someone just hammer Cliff already? This game is slower than a turtle flipped on it's back and frozen in ice.

[AaronFrost]

Oh shit hello eth0s. I think I've played with you before but I can't remember?

[AaronFrost]

Wait, we have a doc claim. We had one pr that wasnt suspected (Profii) Why is the doc believable?

Also, mass claim happens now.

I want Rick and Titus first.

I believe Rick claimed doc

[AaronFrost]

@Hectic: I'm kind of concerned that you never say anything bad about Kop/Titus/Eevee while they write the word 'Hectic' a combined total of once over all of their posts. Should I be worried?

You've spent the entire game assuring us that Hectic is town and now you're suddenly all concerned about him?

[AaronFrost]

Titus and Garmr are likely scum theatring right now because they’re both in trash spots right now.

I actually think Garmr is scummier than Titus, but could be because i don’t recall much of Titus this game

I keep forgetting Titus exists tbh.

[AaronFrost]

I think Hopkirk and Hectic are likely scum together. Hop's been very inconsistent with his read on Hectic, from assuring us he's town to now being worried about him out of nowhere.

Remaining scum most likely lies in {tex, Garmr, Titus, Eevee}.

I agree with Garmr and Rick claiming their results today.

We mass claiming today?

[AaronFrost]

I'd be able to actually do this if everything didn't take 1000 years to load.

[AaronFrost]

If I was scum would of stayed or at least tried to last. But this games to big to many personalities I don't mesh with and I don't have that obligation to put up with that fucking shit as town.

Add Garmr to that list too.

I'm going to vote for Cliff whenever we're ready. No one ever knows the vote count. Worst case is that we get a conf town out of the deal. In the meantime,

VOTE: Garmr

tex could be Cliff's partner is he flips scum. Don't like this bizarre attempt to distract from the Cliff/JJD situation.

Why the vote on Garmr?

cliff flipping scum pretty much clears me as town.

What? Since when? Am I missing something here?

I think Hopkirk and Hectic are likely scum together. Hop's been very inconsistent with his read on Hectic, from assuring us he's town to now being worried about him out of nowhere.

Remaining scum most likely lies in {tex, Garmr, Titus, Eevee}.

I agree with Garmr and Rick claiming their results today.

We mass claiming today?

Okay so first makes g a scumread.
Second questions a lynch on it.
Third back to suspicious(afaik isnt on at that time)


Fourth. I forgot have you claimed ? Also. If aaron flips scum. Its heavily possible garmr does too.

First - that list was in the event that Cliff flipped town
Second - that was when I still thought Cliff was going to flip scum and tex's vote felt like it was trying to deflect from the Cliff lynch (implying potential partnership between the two)
Third - I questioned that statement because it's not even remotely true (unless I really did miss something - entirely possible with this game)
Fourth - I'm VT.

[AaronFrost]

Hopkirk + Titus + Kop are my top scumreads for now. The only non-confirmed person that I'm not scumleaning/reading is Aaron and Garmr, though Aaron's claim of a Hectic-Hopkirk scumpair is slightly dodgy.

I bought Hopkirk's townread on me because apparently I have a "towntell" and he's had similar strong townreads on me in the past that have been accurate while he was town. I was aware it could just be him buddying me, but I was leaning towards him being town since the rest of his play seemed helpful/genuine. This sudden flip on me is really unnatural though, and I don't buy the reasons for it. Kop didn't mention most players in the game. I did mention Titus enough.

Also there's the factor that his scumread on me relies on all of his scumreads being correct, so it's a fairly weak link.

I'm townreading Garmr based on his frustration recently, though perhaps I'm too easily swayed. Could someone remind me of what Garmr lied about earlier in the game which Lilly caught him out for?

Why do you think Garmr's frustration is town indicative?

[AaronFrost]

Rick your avoiding answering who you doctored?

Just didn’t see.

I’m Non Consecutive. I didn’t do anything last night.

I brought up protecting Dave so scum wouldn’t kill him, because he was the most likely to die out of the conf townies.

Why did you think dave was most likely to die? I think claiming to protect profii would've been a better move since he had claimed backup tracker and our tracker was killed the night before.

[AaronFrost]

Players	Status	Role	Death
Kop Pine	Alive
Billy Pilgrim	Alive	Likely VT - rec'd fruit from Cliff
Cliff Booth	Dead	Town Loyal Simple Fruit Vendor	Lynched Day 4
Rick Dalton	Alive	Claims nonconsecutive doc
Sharon Tate Alonzo	Dead	Town Macho	Lynched Day 2
Hectic	Alive
EeveeLution Army	Alive	Claims VT
Gamma Emerald	Dead	Town Mason Mailman	Killed Night 1
Judge Joseph Dredd	Dead	Town Disloyal Simple Fruit Vendor	Lynched Day 3
Elements	Dead	Town Macho Watcher	Lynched Day 1
Titus	Alive
Hopkirk	Alive
roosterfoster gobbledygook	Dead	Mafia Traitor Rolecop Neighbor	Killed Night 2
Carcalilly	Alive	Ascetic mason
Garmr	Alive	Claims voyeur, but lied about N1 results
Tchill13 Blatant Scum	Dead	Town Tracker	Killed Night 3
davesaz	Alive	Innocent child
profii	Dead	Town Backup Tracker Neighbor	Killed Night 4
bob3141	Alive	Likely VT - rec'd fruit from Cliff
Skellen AaronFrost	Alive
YouAreGreat texcat	Alive

I didn't include Hectic's miller survivor claim. Did I miss any others? Town certainly looks overpowered. Overpowered and not doing very well so far.

You missed my VT claim

[AaronFrost]

Hopkirk + Titus + Kop are my top scumreads for now. The only non-confirmed person that I'm not scumleaning/reading is Aaron and Garmr, though Aaron's claim of a Hectic-Hopkirk scumpair is slightly dodgy.

How is the me associated you/Hop dodgy?

[AaronFrost]

Tinfoil hat theory is telling me that Hopkirk and Hectic are bussing right now but I don't really have any solid evidence for it. I think at least one of them are scum though.

[AaronFrost]

Tinfoil hat theory is telling me that Hopkirk and Hectic are bussing right now but I don't really have any solid evidence for it. I think at least one of them are scum though.

What's your scumpool at right now?

{Titus, Hopkirk, Hectic, tex, Garmr, Kop/Pine}

[AaronFrost]

I been under the assumption this whole time that you and hopkirk had a qt + a role and that's why you were town reading each other because of it.

People were always suspicious of his strong townread on me, so this was a necessity for him, also because some of his scumreads are actually probably scum, so he needed another person to possibly mislynch.

Am I the only one who feels like these two (Hopkirk/Hectic) might be bussing each other? Like the shift in read is way too convenient not to notice and it makes me feel like some of the commonly scumread players {Titus & Kop/Pine} might actually be scum, and these two as scum would recognize this and attempt to give the other more town!equity in the event one of them gets lynched.

[AaronFrost]

I can see that Pine has been a useful replacement.

[AaronFrost]

This game is sad.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Hectic

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Pine

Maybe this will get him to do things.

[AaronFrost]

Billy, Hectic, Dave, AF, Garmr have at least 2 scum in them then.

Yes, I know there are multiple conf townies in that.

The statement still is correct.

Do tell?

[AaronFrost]

Yeah Titus is definitely scum. I only voted Pine to try and get him to actually play, but I didn't expect him to be wagoned that quickly.

[AaronFrost]

Mass claim was agreed on a while ago so I don't know why you're so against claiming.

[AaronFrost]

Seems like scum is gonna keep killing off the conf!town players. I'm pretty sure Titus flips scum no matter what but I would like a claim from her.

VOTE: Titus

[AaronFrost]

UNVOTE:

If Titus is town here, then I can see why she would use her 1-shot ability if she feels like she's on the hot seat today. Of course if Garmr got a result then we know she's lying but I'll withhold my vote until I hear from Garmr.

[AaronFrost]

Why do I have a terrible feeling that Titus is town horribly misplaying, and we're at Lylo with 5 scum alive?
Titus' hammer was ridiculously bad, but I have no idea why scum would do that there when Pine was basically certain to be lynched regardless.
Explain yourself, Titus.

I could see this as Hectic covering for his partner when she made a mistake.

[AaronFrost]

Aaron is scum for his forced HecticVHopkirk SvS theories.

Is this the only reason you think I'm scum? Do you think scum!me would be able to fake that kind of paranoia? I stated that the theory was mostly a gut feeling and I didn't have much evidence to back it up.

[AaronFrost]

ISOed Titus and had a look at some of her other recent games and the play is very similar throughout them. The short posts and lack of analysis isn't an alignment-indicative thing. She's been promising a VCA for a while which never came, but I'm willing to give her the BoD on that based on other irl things.

Titus, why were you so against claiming your role yesterday? Why is a one-shot roleblocker something you particularly wanted to keep hidden?
Right now, I'm leaning towards lynching Eevee.

My power is gone once I use it. If I'm unknown, scum might change how they act and perceive like I am a threat. That can protect the more vocal town.

Second, the mass claim was poorly constructed. There's an ideal procedure and this wasn't it.

I didn't have the time to lead it.

Shouldn't the conf!towns be the ones to lead mass claim?

[AaronFrost]

Btw, Aaron, they finally let me post some of the classified info on your wiki: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=AaronFrost

Yes, finally! I was wondering if they were going to let you post that info.

[AaronFrost]

Bob votes for Titus and scum!Aaron and Hop follow, seeing an easy route to victory.

I did jump the gun on that Titus vote I'll admit but that quickhammer yesterday was bad.

I see what you mean about Hopkirk's vote though (or intent to vote?). It implies that he's going to vote Titus regardless of Garmr's result.

[AaronFrost]

If Titus is town here, then I can see why she would use her 1-shot ability if she feels like she's on the hot seat today. Of course if Garmr got a result then we know she's lying but I'll withhold my vote until I hear from Garmr.

Are you saying you would you townread Titus more if Garmr substantiated it?[/quote]
I'll clarify this once I hear Garmr's result.

[AaronFrost]

UNVOTE:

If Titus is town here, then I can see why she would use her 1-shot ability if she feels like she's on the hot seat today. Of course if Garmr got a result then we know she's lying but I'll withhold my vote until I hear from Garmr.

Are you saying you would you townread Titus more if Garmr substantiated it?

I'll clarify this once I hear Garmr's result.

Fucked up the quotes in my last post.

[AaronFrost]

So I was looking at past large normals to get an idea of how many scum would be in a 21 player game. The closest thing I could find to a game this size or bigger was This Game from just over a year ago. 25 player Large Normal that had 4 scum in it. I would wager that we have 5 scum at most including the dead traitor which would mean there's 4 left, making tomorrow lylo if we mislynch today.

I think scum!Hectic is trying to create paranoia about being in lylo when he knows that we aren't.

[AaronFrost]

I don't believe that Garmr conveniently 'forgot' to put in a night action considering that his voyeur claim has been a big talking point.

Not sure what he's trying to do with the whole 'let's mislynch me now' thing.

[AaronFrost]

So I was looking at past large normals to get an idea of how many scum would be in a 21 player game. The closest thing I could find to a game this size or bigger was This Game from just over a year ago. 25 player Large Normal that had 4 scum in it. I would wager that we have 5 scum at most including the dead traitor which would mean there's 4 left, making tomorrow lylo if we mislynch today.

I think scum!Hectic is trying to create paranoia about being in lylo when he knows that we aren't.

How do you know we arnt?

I don't, but scum do.

[AaronFrost]

I don't believe that Garmr conveniently 'forgot' to put in a night action considering that his voyeur claim has been a big talking point.

Not sure what he's trying to do with the whole 'let's mislynch me now' thing.

Night 1 he also fake claimed that he had a result on Ascetic and backtracked. Occam’s razor, Garmr is just scum. The ate is good, though.

Right forgot that happened.

Yeah I think the simplest explanation here is that Garmr is just scum which would pretty much clear Titus. Even without the claim I don't think Titus and Garmr are scum together and I doubt they'd want to try this kind of gambit in this gamestate if they were.

VOTE: Garmr

[AaronFrost]

Im willing for a texcat/aaron lynch

If you think they are both scum why no vote?

Its not like you have activly scum hunted since this point.

Eevee hasn't really scumhunted all game tbh.

Alternatively, we can kill obvscum Eevee.

We can lynch her tomorrow. I think the fact that she's had no input on the Garmr/Titus claims is telling, but I think we need to get Garmr today.

[AaronFrost]

@Mod:

V/LA until November 22nd.

[AaronFrost]

Billy/Carca are the only conf!town left alive right?

[AaronFrost]

Okay so that leaves {Hopkirk, Hectic, AFF, Titus, Garmr, texcat, and Eevee} as the scum candidates.

I'd like to clarify that I think it's unlikely that you two are scum bussing each other. I'm gonna reread both of your slots at some point because I'm not 100% sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in you two.

I think there's exactly 1t/1s in {Titus, Garmr}. Assuming 3 scum left after that that leaves {Hopkirk, Hectic, tex, Eevee}. Out of the four I think you've been the towniest Hop.

PEDIT: I explained the vote on Titus. Then I unvoted because I realized I jumped the gun and should've waited for Garmr's result (a result which I think is bs btw).

PEDIT2: Didn't they claim VT? If not then I definitely want a claim.

[AaronFrost]

I'll do Eevee if no one wants to do Garmr.

[AaronFrost]

VOTE: Eevee

[AaronFrost]

LUV hasn't logged on since Monday morning

[AaronFrost]

Garmr you realize that today is most likely lylo right?

[AaronFrost]

Titus you realize that today is most likely lylo right?

[AaronFrost]

Was AaronFF pushing Garmr yesterday? I know Texcat was but I put that down as bussing. Scum has to bus each other a little at this point because of how many confirms there.

I wanted either Garmr or Titus yesterday for two reasons.

1) I think there's exactly one scum in there. I seriously doubt they are scum together and either one of them flipping town seriously incriminates the other (Garmr flipping town especially incriminates Titus in this case).

2) I was correct about us not being in lylo yesterday meaning we could've afforded the mislynch. Either way we went we'd have gotten one scum out of the deal and could solve based on that.

I switched to Eevee because I thought she was scum regardless of Garmr/Titus.

[AaronFrost]

hectic was given choice between aaron and eve.

He choose eve over arraon.

Aaron is last player without a confirmed alignment on that first wagon. And joined elentas wagon real scummly

What exactly makes you think that scum was on the Elements wagon? I actually think it's more likely that scum stayed off of it for the towncred considering the speed that it built up.

[AaronFrost]

tex why were you so hesitant to claim VT? And why am I on your 'never lynch' list? You've been dodging most of the questions directed at you.

[AaronFrost]

Also if any player had a half a brain I should be considered Confirmed town in this set up as well.

And why should we consider you conf town?

[AaronFrost]

I'm seeing a lot of 'AaronFrost is most likely scum here' yet not seeing any votes on me. I wonder why scum is so hesitant to attempt a mislynch on me?

[AaronFrost]

@Titus: Ever going to go over who else you want to lynch after Garmr? Assuming a Garmr scumflip.

Same question @Tex and probably @Aaron.

Assuming Garmr scumflip I'd lynch in {you, Hectic, tex}.

[AaronFrost]

Also if any player had a half a brain I should be considered Confirmed town in this set up as well.

And why should we consider you conf town?

Set up spec,the fact I been hinting at my role since day 1, The fact every scum player wants to lynch me, what hopkirk said in post 5389. Should I go on.

Literally none of that confirms you as town.

[AaronFrost]

Why does Garmr make that claim (as scum) d2, unprompted, in a way that doesn't lead anyone else to the lynch when he doesn't know what else is in the game? It's so easy to get caught in a conflict. If any of the fruit vendors/trackers/watchers we knew were in the game created a conflict in regard to actions - either in terms of his target or in terms of who they interacted with, he's basically caught.

We also had a plethora of townies claim unprompted on D1 and D2 and I think it'd be very easy for scum to slip a believable fake claim in there with how many conf townies we had.

[AaronFrost]

Rick, you should really unvote. Garmr is obvscum and it's highly unlikely both Hopkirk and Hectic are town. You called him obvscum and look who he won't vote...Garmr.

Hopkirk meanwhile wants me to catch all the scum before voting Garmr.

Garmr was straight up caught in a fiction yo avoid confirming me and we let it go?

Garmr was the first one I was voting for today. I was also voting for him yesterday.
Hopkirk is the one who refuses to vote for Garmr.

You're currently voting for texcat though?

[AaronFrost]

No comment on Tex being confirmed scum?

Had to look back to see why tex is confirmed scum. Lack of quickhammer pretty much confirms it.

Intent to hammer

[AaronFrost]

Hectic and Garmr are probably tex's scum partners.

Hectic votes Garmr D6 then reluctantly votes Eevee at the end of the day. Possibly trying to gain towncred by saying 'I didn't want to lynch Eevee.'

The comes out of the gate today voting for Garmr then quickly goes to texcat because... why?

Hectic should be tomorrow's lynch imo.

[AaronFrost]

Alright

VOTE: texcat