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[Dragon of the West]

I also have a hard time entertaining the idea that scum somehow blocks town!anya last night.

Just found this nugget lol

[Dragon of the West]

anyway i think we have talked mechanics enough who r u voting dwlee voting me or t3 is not good

Not sure if this was because Dwlee was scumreading T3 at the time but this would've been a perfect chance for Rathe to drop STD as a bad vote

[Dragon of the West]

Babysitter enabler allows the babysitter to do their actions. An enabler role could be either alignment.

It's a pro town role tho. If scum had it, wouldn't they just mega bus that player for street cred and no more baby sitters?

Don't mind me just quoting interesting things. Vax didn't have to jump in to say anything here but chose to

[Dragon of the West]

T3 if that's all you have to say I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Sheep me vote t3.

VOTE: Rathe

anyway i think we have talked mechanics enough who r u voting dwlee voting me or t3 is not good

Not sure if this was because Dwlee was scumreading T3 at the time but this would've been a perfect chance for Rathe to drop STD as a bad vote

VOTE: STD

VOTE: T3
Okay I'll buy it

Sorry they're out of order, on mobile so formatting is a pain rn but Dwlee was pushing T3 so I can see Rathe just responding to that but right before T3 Dwlee was on STD

[Dragon of the West]

Are you guys serious. Yo if Titus flips green Dwlee scum

[Dragon of the West]

Lol, I was saying that in a rush cause I'm at work and didn't want someone to quick hammer

[Dragon of the West]

An extra result into gamma lim if we can afford it is good because if town he could get a guilty.

If you mislim today on not gamma, scum kills me tonight and you go into D5 with 8 people, potentially 3 scum, and no conf clears. You have to assume D5 is melo there. In that scenario you don't get to confirm gamma. You should only do that if you're sure gamma isn't scum

[Dragon of the West]

Ok, I have seen this problem occur too much and it's problematic. I also won't have the time to defend myself given my schedule.

I am a babysitter enabler. That means we likely have babysitters and talking about who you'd vig and protect in the same post is a problem.

I could gamble on not having to claim at all, but that seems unlikely with Nero accusing my VLA of being game related.

Titus - why was crumbing who you'd vig and protect in the same post a problem if you thought someone was a babysitter? Re-explain this thought process to me

[Dragon of the West]

Emphasis on the "and"

[Dragon of the West]

You felt that way at the time of 1430?

[Dragon of the West]

Who does she make sense as partners with?

Chaos or Kyo

[Dragon of the West]

I'm confused why scum killed t3 of all people. Like, even if the PT cop cleared the slot wouldn't killing DotW be better there?

I think them leaving me is literally cause my reads have been garbage and I'm inexperienced for end game. I had a feeling D2 that Titus was just buddying me and DGB but ignored it and that almost caused a lot of mislims

[Dragon of the West]

I'm confused why scum killed t3 of all people. Like, even if the PT cop cleared the slot wouldn't killing DotW be better there?

Or gamma is scum and this is them trying to show one of Gamma's clears were real. Gamma could still be traitor and STD be main scum but I don't think Gamma as traitor/scumakea sense with Titus scum

[Dragon of the West]

Also VLA until tomorrow night

[Dragon of the West]

I'm seeing a lot of mixed considerations about whether people think there's a traitor or not. How we feel about the chances of there being a traitor changes what we do today so I want someone to talk me through why they think there is or isn't a traitor

I'm intrigued by the no lim today to go into tomorrow 5v2 or 6v1 with an extra gamma investigate but tbh after that we're just back in the same spot if we need to flip gamma before mylo

[Dragon of the West]

To me, if there's a traitor I think that points to Kyo being scum anyways. If not, there's probably only one scum left so mislimming doesn't put us in mylo

[Dragon of the West]

13:4 is standard, giving scum a traitor here as well would imply that town has some decent power to counteract that, but it doesn't appear that's the case from the flipped roles, even assuming that Gamma is town. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would find it very unlikely, pretty sure we're at 7:1 here.

I would consider the vengeful combined babysitter vigilante to be a preeeeettyyyy powerful role...especially with the babysitter enabler flipping scum, that makes the game more swingy in town's favor

[Dragon of the West]

I was very skeptical of Dwlee for days but honestly I don't think scum!Dwlee pushes against the gamma wagon for so long just to see the wagon turn to scum!Titus and get on board with it. I wasn't letting his Osuka vote carry any wait because that could've been bussing on a goon for the first scum lim of the game but at this point I don't think he's scum. Also, I was trying to trust VFPs reads more as the game went on and he was pretty adamant about Dwlee being town

[Dragon of the West]

any *weight*

Long week

[Dragon of the West]

Sounds like as long as dragon lives I can't be mislimmed let's gooo

Lol so that gets you to like....D6

[Dragon of the West]

can someone tell me how consistent Gamma's participation levels have been this game, notably when scum have been pushed?

They replaced in for Rathe...so you'd have to look at both I guess.

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: titus
okay.

yeah I think Titus is town
I BELIEVE VFP and kyouko should know why

VOTE: Anya
This feels more constructive than a Titus lim rn

dotw
VFP
T3 + STD
dwlee
kyouko
titus
chaos
andres

conftown, confident town, probtown via result, unconfident town, null, nullscum, scumread, hard scumread

@Osuka Post Dunn flip? I don't see what would make it change. I like your point on vaxkiller and I'm fine throwing that slot out the window if we have to. I still think t3 is a good wagon and I want to say there though. Here are some of my thoughts on t3 summarized:

I don't like how T3 seems to be playing both "sides" of the game here, questioning the DotW + DGB + Titus town block claim but then voting with them on Anya is super weird. I also feel like his absence in light of the claim from Anya + wagon on him is weird, like he is hoping he can just pretend to have been gone and leave his vote there and conveniently avoid the wagon along with it. I know t3's playstyle is kinda like it has been this game, but I think trying to lurk through pressure is super scummy and made even worse by the fact that he is voting a slot that claims town power role and who I believe. If we could force t3 back into the game at least to lock him into a claim that would be great.

I was asking does the majority of the game consider dotw titus and dgb a townblock.

Vax/DGB/Titus and I think Petapan

I need to read more dotw. T3, I feel like your quieter this game, any reason why?

I'm not on on peoples town lists yet prolly, but I will be.

Does Vax not put any of his scum partners in their town block?

If you take out Vax rule of 3 points to Titus

VOTE: Titus

I mentioned earlier if someone in my check pool would leave me alive it would probably be Titus

Hang on I just had a thought.
So I don’t think it’s unclear that T3’s play has been bothering me more than a little. I’ve been feeling like I wasted my action by checking someone like him, who seems to have taken it as an excuse to crank up the slank, but I just realized my perspective was wrong. What I’ve proven is that T3 can only be traitor scum. As such the smart way to handle the bothersome behavior is trying to figure out who it points to as groupscum
UNVOTE:
Because I think the first step on this road is realizing T3 seems okay with me or Titus getting yeeted, so until I figure out T3 is not traitor I don’t want to full send on Titus.

To be clear: the idea is to read T3’s actions and behavior and see who it points to as groupscum, and if there’s no real logic I can come up with as to who T3’s buddies are, I’ll probably just write him off as town.

UNVOTE:
Well she fell for it enough to act like it was real and say she was town

Or she knew to fake it
I feel like she’d be experienced enough to not be easily baited
Could it be real, maybe, but I don’t think it should be trusted immediately

It also shows that Titus was checking the thread enough to say town on the "hammer" but not enough to do anything else.

Yeahhhh

Titus flipped scum D4

[Dragon of the West]

votecount 4.Execution

Titus (6) :

Save The Dragons - ssbm_Kyouko - T3 - Dwlee99 - andresvmb - VFP

Execution

Gamma Emerald (2) :

Titus - ChaosOmega

Not voting (2) :

Dragon Of The West - Gamma Emerald

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2021-07-20 15:38:30)

, with 10 alive, it takes 6 to slap someone

annoncements

.

flavor

summary : Animation
would recommend? - Bit pointless if you don't have the reference

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: no lim

No lim today, lim Gamma tomorrow?
PoE: Chaos, Kyo. If Gamma flips traitor then add STD and Andres to PoE

[Dragon of the West]

We still have a no lim but it should come tomorrow I think so we reduce the poe by 1 today and by another overnight with Gamma's check

But then you can't flip gamma?

[Dragon of the West]

Chaos today, check Kyo tonight.

If chaos flips green what the mech play? Would you want to flip gamma before melo?

[Dragon of the West]

Pedit: why can't we flip gamma tomorrow?

So if everyone is 100% there's no traitor then you could flip gamma tomorrow. But if there's a traitor we can't mislim today and then flip gamma tomorrow

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: SSBM

Lim today should be me or SSBM, Gamma checks the other one tonight, and go from there.

VOTE: Chaos /vote]

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: Chaos

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma are you targeting Kyo tonight?

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: unvote

[Dragon of the West]

I'd rather no lim than get chaos.
Dragon, unvote.

Why would we no lim -> lim chaos? The whole point of the no lim would be so we can flip gamma after one more investigate

[Dragon of the West]

Oh, thAn. Lol

[Dragon of the West]

DotW - off-brand mason w/ DGB
Gamma - odd-night PT cop
Chaos - VT
Dwlee - VT
ssbm - VT
StD - VT
VFP/DkKoba - ?
Andres - ?

Hey Koba, what's your role?

[Dragon of the West]

DotW - off-brand mason w/ DGB
Gamma - odd-night PT cop
Chaos - VT
Dwlee - VT
ssbm - VT
StD - VT
VFP/DkKoba - ?
Andres - ?

Hey Koba, what's your role?

No.

Just claim
VOTE: Koba

[Dragon of the West]

Just do it. It's worth it

[Dragon of the West]

so anyone clearing gamma based on mechs is ignoring the other side of the argument as well as their play around titus which stood out to me as someone trying their best to at first save them while distancing them.

I don't think anyone's clearing gamma...they were almost limmed D4. But now that it's an odd day we're saying it doesn't make sense to lim them until tomorrow since they'll have an extra chance to investigate IF they're town

[Dragon of the West]

Don't care. I replaced in here as a favor to whatever alignment I rolled since its the endgame. I rolled town so I particularly don't care to appease people, especially since apparently my slot is fairly clear from interactions with scum!

Koba I'm telling you rn, if you're town it's worth you claiming

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: Chaos

Dwlee temporarily unvote for me

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: chaosomega
zzzzzzzzzzz

L-1

[Dragon of the West]

Don't care. I replaced in here as a favor to whatever alignment I rolled since its the endgame. I rolled town so I particularly don't care to appease people, especially since apparently my slot is fairly clear from interactions with scum!

Koba I'm telling you rn, if you're town it's worth you claiming

Also, the scum jailkeeper flipped informed...so we don't know what scum know. The more info town has the better. Looking at past Gypyx games sometimes that scum informed role knows huuuuge chunks of the game setup. Just claim

[Dragon of the West]

Babysitter Enabler flipped uninformed so prob just that so yea

Enablers are usually informed - likely just shifted to imply different info.

What do you mean

[Dragon of the West]

Babysitter Enabler flipped uninformed so prob just that so yea

Enablers are usually informed - likely just shifted to imply different info.

What do you mean

An enabler is oftentimes informed of the role that they enable existing. Otherwise there is no guarantee.

I doubt that the jailkeeper's "informed" was to say there was a babysitter. I think at minimum it would be informed about the entirety of the vcvb, if not more

[Dragon of the West]

Koba I promise that if you're town and claim honestly it'll be good for town

[Dragon of the West]

It should be clear to anyone that's actually been reading this game before today's day phase why I'd ask Koba to claim

[Dragon of the West]

This isn't worth it. Koba I didn't think you were scum, but it would've been so simple to just claim. But yeah it would defeat the purpose to tell them

why

I'm asking for a claim.

Pedit: I think they were saying if YOU were an investigative role you should claim to share results. And
if I

did

have info or investigative on you then fuck you I'm townier because I'm literally the only conftown right now

[Dragon of the West]

My italics got fucked up on mobile, oh well

[Dragon of the West]

Tbh Koba you seem like the only one that thinks there's 2 scum left so saying it's definitely gamma and Kyo might be a stretch. I think they responded to my pressure on you like scum would though, trying to sow doubt around an otherwise townread slot

[Dragon of the West]

I'm over the Koba thing because they aren't gonna claim even though if they had I would've been much more likely to go along with them. Let's just lim chaos or Kyo and call it a day. Gamma investigate the one we don't lim. Regroup tomorrow and after gamma claims N5 results, lim Gamma, and go from there

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: Chaos

[Dragon of the West]

plus PT cop prob useless at this stage as we are prob dealing with 1 group scum 1 traitor or just 1 groupscum. so yep

The remaining scum would still have a PT for results purposes though? How is that result useless?

[Dragon of the West]

So you figure Dwlee/Kyouko is likely then?

Yeah I think the last Scum is between the two. I don’t see Chaos as Scum and everybody else is ruled out in my mind due to mechanics or play.

I think Andres is town if Gamma flips green. No way Titus and Andres are both scum while sitting in town!Gamma's check pool. But I don't think we should be assuming gamma is cleared at all and they 100% need to be flipped tomorrow. Their claim is convenient based on where the game state was when they claimed and I could easily see them being traitor

[Dragon of the West]

Tbh if Koba claims I'll vote Kyo instead

[Dragon of the West]

My point is more that you aren't in PoE unless Gamma flips traitor. Even then you aren't a main suspect of mine

[Dragon of the West]

I'll reread Kyo's ISO in the morning. I feel like last time I read it the Titus vote and Kyo's surrounding ISO it didn't seem like town catching scum. Did they hop off the wagon or something?

[Dragon of the West]

yes that's about what i was getting at - bogging things down in some boring "correct" argument is how i'd expect scum to approach someone coming out with a wacky plan to start the day - it's an easy point to make and offers basically nothing. i hit him with my vote for it and didn't like the response.

nero of course is dead set on trying to misconstrue that i was arguing that no one should claim at all in accordance with dgb, which is not what i was trying to say and i don't think someone making an honest reading could get that (except T3, but he's a special case)

If anything it feels like your vote should be towards Nero more than Dwlee.
With the above it just seems more that players like Dwlee and T3 are mis understanding your view while Nero is using this to push agenda.

I don't think Nero is, and I don't think that this scum read is strong enough to have had Dwlee in the lead votes at this point.
How does Dwlee town react to DGB's plan?

Also, what is the mod information / meta you have?
Assuming this relates to the information you were talking about?

i think both are scummy, i haven't seen anything from dwlee that felt like cause to unvote so i've kept my vote there

don't know dwlee, not going to imagine up some response to dgb that i would read as town because it suits my taste. i

could

see town seeing that post by dgb and arguing against it (i haven't raised that issue with everyone reacting negatively to it), it was a combination of how he chose to respond to it, which felt like he was arguing in a way to score points rather than advance the game + his reaction to my voting him, where he just clumsily pulled the "i know you are but what am i?" card to an early attack. didn't feel natural.

i'll get into the mod meta stuff in a bit, it deserves its own post

oh weird I wonder what happened the next night phase after peta was pushing this

Peta got a replacement before they died...and Cyrus probably got NK'd when they did because they claimed. Honestly Koba I think you're cherry picking shit you aren't reading the context of

[Dragon of the West]

Ironically STD is also a pretty safe vote.

STD is always scummy and scum can always safely sneak their vote through or push for his elimination.

nom sounds like irritated town.

nom and nero are tvt.

Nah, Nero is scum.

I don't want to think about the neighbors right now.

Well I do because they are both scum.

nero is back to fucking howling, huh

He's really slimy and manipulative in this game.

Nomnomnom is Town. If anybody tries to execute there, they’re Scum. Just so we’re clear.

I agree.

DGB if you think anya/ssbm are scum together what do you think of peta saying that's unlikely?

Peta is entitled to his opinion, you manipulative little scum.

VOTE: Nero Cain

The neighbors are still scum.

VOTE: Anya

POE is Rathe, STD, Anya, ChaosOmega and Andres.

@koba, here's just a smorgasbord of DGB takes that kinda shows they just threw scum accusations at everyone...them saying something about Dwlee is pretty meaningless

[Dragon of the West]

Like holy shit that sequence was so fucking bad. Did VFP actually do that bus there?

Lmao I'm getting worried about that especially since they won't claim. They did drop the 1v1 and not go back there at all...

[Dragon of the West]

I mean Koba isn’t a traitor unless you want to argue VFP really wanted to sink their buddies repeatedly this game.

Tbf that jump on Titus at the end doesn't really get them any town cred...it was obvious Titus was getting limmed and they just hammered without much added

[Dragon of the West]

In a vacuum, you're conftown and he's guaranteed not group-scum but could possibly be traitor

If Gamma is traitor or scum then T3 isn't guaranteed not group scum. Literally the T3 kill could've been to give Gamma's claim credibility.

We're just playing a big game of WIFOM

[Dragon of the West]

Limming you is a mechanical play, not only rooted in a scumread

[Dragon of the West]

It would literally be so fucking easy for you to just claim. It obviously defeats the purpose for me to tell you WHY you should claim but it would do a lot for me to continue treating you as much town. Being indignant just ruins the towncred VFP had built

[Dragon of the West]

Treating you as *lock town

[Dragon of the West]

Tell me why you claiming HURTS the game state for town

[Dragon of the West]

If VFP is deep wolf, town loses and bravo on having the guts to bus what I'm assuming was scums' best PR in nom3 on D1

Chaos you could say this is why I'm alive too if you just want to point at all associatives

[Dragon of the West]

I guess if you're town we can have this convo in the dead thread

[Dragon of the West]

Or post game thread

[Dragon of the West]

StD, what's your PoE right now?

[Dragon of the West]

after actually

HAVING CLAIMED

If this is saying what I think it is, you were like 1 inch away from realizing why I asked you to claim but you want to be strongheaded and unhelpful to the point of blindness

[Dragon of the West]

I think if Gamma flips green Chaos should be looked at, and if Gamma flips red Dwlee should be looked at. Dwlee v Chaos interactions in general read TvS to me

Going back to an old thought process of mine...Seeing as we think it's more likely there's one scum left, that points to Chaos because Gamma and Dwlee couldn't both flip red. Honestly I still think this interaction has to be TvS, if it's TvT then we probably lose through these two arguing to death

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma is probably only scum here if there are two left, given he replaced in and immediately voted Titus upon being told the lim was between Titus and STD

Are you suggesting no gamma lim tomorrow?

[Dragon of the West]

Andre, StD, Gamma....anyone wanna vote Chaos?

[Dragon of the West]

Pretty sure we're at L-1

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: chaosomega

Bless

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma who did you investigate and result?

[Dragon of the West]

I think I have a plan

[Dragon of the West]

Why would we no lim?

[Dragon of the West]

Oh we aren't limming gamma. I was lying about the mech play

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma, Andres, and I are lock town

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma should have an additional info or guilty

[Dragon of the West]

*inno

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma and I are both alive because I (and Dwlee) wanted to mech lim the slot. That's an easy mislim for scum. Gamma's slot already checked STD before Gamma replaced in

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma had both Andres and Titus in their check pool the night they checked T3, no way both Andres and Titus were both scum and leave gamma alive. Andres also seemed towny anyways. Lim today is one of Koba/Dwlee/Kyo

[Dragon of the West]

scum!gamma has to check dwlee here and try to win against me in limlo

We have a mislim left. If scum!gamma gives a fake guilty then they auto lose

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma and I are both alive because I (and Dwlee) wanted to mech lim the slot. That's an easy mislim for scum. Gamma's slot already checked STD before Gamma replaced in

mfw i townslipped even more LOL

Not knowing the game state isn't a townslip

[Dragon of the West]

This was a really interesting setup. I love making the rolestopper macho with a the comb babysitter/vig that would backfire on town

[Dragon of the West]

Sorry you guys were stuck with me being your conftown lol. I was pretty much sideways on my reads all game. I'm glad I didn't totally sink us. Good playing with you guys

[Dragon of the West]

And shoutout to DGB for being a great mason-lite partner and claiming at the right time

[Dragon of the West]

Peta, sitting on scum D1 was impressive. Sorry for being hyper obsessed with your slot for so long. I struggled to make coherent reads for my first game back

[Dragon of the West]

Alright that’s a win. It worked out. Good job Town. Maybe a bit overpowered for the Town to be totally honest. It was hard to lose this one.

Tbh if Cyrus didn't hit vax I think this easily could've gone the other way