Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Cape90]

Hi

Frogsterking is town

Discuss

VOTE: Nordom

[Cape90]

VOTE: Datisi

Post 39 feels unnatural to me.

Frogsterking, you may need to do some research on what to expect from this game.

To me it reads as a post I would make if I was tired vs an unnatural post. I see where you are coming from tho

[Cape90]

I can guarantee at least one scum has posted.

I would say this is the greatest observation that I have ever seen, thanks a lot for contributing

[Cape90]

I feel like Datisi is kinda playing not super like how I have seen him play in the last micro game I have played with him

[Cape90]

Why is that worth discussing? If Frogsterking is town should we not then be discussing other things?

I would assume you are the type of player who wants opinions on scumreads versus building a town circle. I understand this correctly?

I was going to assume someone was going to ask why I thought Frogsterking was town.

It is because of 24 which is a thought I almost can guarantee wouldn't be a post mafia would make. They wouldn't have such an idea.

[Cape90]

VOTE: fireisredsir

why? what happened to disliking my tenebro vote?

what's the correlation between that and voting fireisredsir?

They also never voted you over disliking your tenebro vote

[Cape90]

I don't think skitter is scummy for saying what she did about Datisi.
It sounds pretty normal to me. While not everyone here is completely familiar with Datisi's playstyle, I don't think it's scummy for skitter to suggest that Datisi's posts are NAI.

The point was not that she suggested his posts are NAI - that is what I expect town skitter to do. And I’m sure she knew that part, regardless of what her alignment is. The point is that she started it with disbelief that he was getting pressure from players who don’t know him, knowing full well that she is using her experience with Datisi to sort him.

She saw an opportunity to make a read (fake content) that she would as town and slipped up in how she presented it.

Maybe she just thought that other players would see the same things she did, but it turned out that they didn't.

136 noted for being potentially a town tell, a scum tell, or both!

Frogster, you know this post means absolutely nothing right? Like you literally made it mean nothing

[Cape90]

skitter, what did you think of 123?

you didnt ask but your post caught my eye

I felt it was hedgy in a not scummy way, or a too scummy way. Either way a lightly towny way

[Cape90]

Okay following 163 I feel compelled to share wu is a townlean for me unironically.

Well folks, I think my work here is done.

this is the most effort filled and incredibly analysis of the situation I have ever seen... the sheer amount of thought and consideration that has gone into making this robust and thought provoking assessment is worthy of the highest honours bestowed upon those in the field of thought.

[Cape90]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

alright I found one

235 - the lol defense. Classic.
224 - hey fire, how about this post is strange and mega forced out.
Scummy confidence in just about everything they do like 203 and 209

[Cape90]

I also wouldn’t mind getting Datisi hammered soon.

That's a bad idea.
Hammering people very early on is bad because we have less time to discuss and we're probably defenstrating a townie.

If you all want a real reason to think that GeneralWu is town that isn't the Amine thing, I would have to suggest this

[Cape90]

This is where I am at right now. I think I have too many town reads

town:

Frogsterking - 24, 71, 135, 194, 150

light town:

skitter30 - 33. 67. 172 bottom part sticks out a lot
Aristeia - 218 felt genuine. Voting monkey is good .
fireisredsir - 197 seems to take 178 a little too for granted. 87.
DeasVail - 110, 152, 168 for this last one, I think trying to randomly convince another person of a townread you have is town+.
GeneralWu

null:

Datisi (I will try again later idk),

light mafia:

tenebrousluminary - 116 just has a tone about it that I think looks not so great.

mafia:

humaneatingmonkey

[Cape90]

oh yeah, I forgot to townbin yeet, my bad

fua seems okay for suspecting tenebro for about the same reasons as me.

[Cape90]

I also wouldn’t mind getting Datisi hammered soon.

That's a bad idea.
Hammering people very early on is bad because we have less time to discuss and we're probably defenstrating a townie.

If you all want a real reason to think that GeneralWu is town that isn't the Amine thing, I would have to suggest this

That’s basic mafia 101 though. Not worth a TR to say especially since someone else is gonna say it anyway.

I think this sort of lecturing usually just comes from town. I know it's basic mafia

[Cape90]

Looking back at it 265 is some of the LAMIST stuff I’ve ever seen.

I don't like this read.

Oh whats that, I missed a lot of posts?

Welp

Guess i am in readsville

[Cape90]

VOTE: fua

This person chose to pick a fight with me because they perceived me as a weak player they could win an argument against, but their attack did not make sense. Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.

some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess

class starting back again, cheers

I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.

I am starting to turn around on this slot

[Cape90]

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

False

both players look good off of that post.

Fire doesn't see it as a sort of joke read as I initially did.

Frogs somehow justifies this read GeneralWu as like "Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town?" which feels like such a stretch that it just wounds up being a towny stretch.

[Cape90]

is 234 townie? probably not. do i wanna townread it anyway? yeah.

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot - but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here.

That's literally a copypasta T.T

[Cape90]

well I see a bunch of people who have tene/hem as scumreads and I think its better to consolidate pressure on one of them rather than split and have things go slower.

its 9 days till dl and there's still a good chunk of players that haven't posted. Seems a lil' early to talk wagon consolidation, no?

Man, I haven't had a lot of opinions on what Nero has said up to this point.

And then I see this, and this isn't it

[Cape90]

Wu is not a real wagon she says.

Even if you disagree with it its the leading wagon (I presume)

just let things form organicly

what? no

why would i not push for the people i think are scummy to be wagoned rather than "let things form organicly"?

Exactly my thoughts.

As far as I can tell, Nero never responded to this

[Cape90]

Why is that worth discussing? If Frogsterking is town should we not then be discussing other things?

I would assume you are the type of player who wants opinions on scumreads versus building a town circle. I understand this correctly?

Not especially. I was puzzled more because I did not think calling Frogsterking town was a particularly controversial statement.

Okay I am going to be honest, I didn't want to admit this.

But I thought when I joined somehow the thread was still at page 1. I was like "why has nobody posted for an hour?"

GOOD GOD. Twenty pages already?

Okay? It's not that many posts. Also why has Nordom made the same exact post?

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I’ll catch up on other stuff this afternoon

Nordom literally did the same thing that Eyes is doing and you decide to go one over the other? Like, yeah, it is kinda a scummy thing to do, but you aren't going to question it?

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

OK.. so I take it that I'm the worst player then, because while everyone is discerning reads I have no concrete feelings so far (in page 9) that I don't think I'd vote or defend anyone if my life depended on it.

it's a bullshit readslist that pinged me and it deserves more attention. what deserves even more attention is the way she OMGUSed me when I called her out on it.

So why are you not scum, this isn't convincing me at all.

even the "absence" and "ghosting" that she claims i did was another one of those accusations you make as scum because you have nothing else as ammo.

dude, it's been barely a day.

Hey look another one of those scumtells I like using in my head, look at that. It would be preferrable if like... you actually tried to do something outside of respond to Artesia. 514 Okay if you dont want to that's fine too.

I just finished reading through page 10, so I'm still in catch up. Here is kind of what I have for reads out of that so far:


Town:

Frogsterking

- early attack on Yeet over game delay is tinfoil I'd expect from town FK

Yeet

- wild noob read after wild noob read. Somewhat question if Yeet is not an alt though, in which case maybe this means nothing.

fireisredsir

- has independent thought, calling out post 116 as bad is good. Also seems to not mind poking people, which I appreciate.

skitter30

- Kind of like their pressure on Datisi, but think the over defense of tenesbro is unwarranted. This is probably closer to a null read than a townread in terms of confidence, but I like that she is mixing it up.

Cape90

- probably town for finding frogster town and asking pretty open questions.

Ari

- I like her pressure and vote on monkey when he was being kind of ridiculous.


Null:

DeasVail

- commenting, but not doing a ton. Maybe lean townish.


Scum:

fua

- I find the hard scum read of tenesbro a little contrived, and possibly piling on to a popular opinion in thread.

monkey

- The whole intereaction with ari looks like monkey got over confident with a poke and couldn't explain the position.

what is a pretty open question? What does that read even mean?

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

This begs the question of then do you think all 3 are mafia based off of this?

[Cape90]

I'm not reading Monkey as scum. He's been pretty abrasive and loose, but I don't think get a maf vibe from.

when you and monkey are both mafia this comment makes sense .

I am glad Monkey posted 548 it really goes to show how they are literally not playing the game in town's best interests.

First

Save the Dragons is also town.

woo hoo!

Town
Frogsterking
Nero Cain
DeasVail
fua
fireisredsir
VP Baltar
Yeet

Null
Scorpious
MalcolmTucker
Datisi
skitter30
Eyes without a face
Aristeia
Cape90
Nordom
GeneralWu

Scum
tenebrousluminary
humaneatingmonkey

VOTE: tenebro

STD has Wu as the 3rd scummist

my list isn't ordered my bad

STD has Wu as the 3rd scummist

my list isn't ordered my bad

Would you like to explain any of your opinions, Sir Knight?

haha

Could you at least explain why you want to extinguish my beautiful light, Sir Knight?

It is difficult to assess the motivations of votes against me, as Mx. Oboro says I must, if no motivation is provided.

i want pressure on you mostly, it's a gut read and i want to see how you respond

VOTE: eyes without a face

Someone towncase Save The Dragons as well. This is the entirety of their content so far.
GO

[Cape90]

Who wants to flip a 2022 join date?!?

Nordom?

[Cape90]

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

[Cape90]

Who wants to flip a 2022 join date?!?

Nordom?

thats who I was talking about when I said that.

Good ol mindmeld

[Cape90]

VOTE: Nordom

you know what, lets go for it, monkey is getting townier the deeper I get

[Cape90]

Cape, is there a reason my name was used for a point of reference? You scum-read me or something?

I do scum read you,

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

Just saying this out into the open

What, "easy to get a town tell from"? I already explained. It's the type of shit that I would and have pulled as town before. MafiaScum is not my first forum mafia rodeo.

...okay

some stuff about liking reads and disagreeing with reads which is kinda just easy content to make up.

Also you defend pretty much everyone who I feel has been scummy this game lol

[Cape90]

what is a pretty open question? What does that read even mean?

I mean open minded questions. You don't seem to have an agenda in what you're asking, more trying to determine why people are doing the things they are doing.

I feel like mafia would defiantly try and fake that sort of thing

[Cape90]

Yeah, my pronouns aren't showing up. I don't think anyone's are.

nope, doesnt look like it

[Cape90]

because i know how much you wanna fool me

this line automatically comes with the assumption that VT Baltar is wolf, do you feel this way?

You just voted Nordom earlier for... well they did a wolfy thing for sure. But I am just wondering

[Cape90]

"

datisi is going for popular wagons of wu and monkey

"

"that's wrong, i was going after tene and skitt, and i was the first on both of those wagons. and, i specifically said monkey's posting doesn't make him town, and i commented about wu *after being asked to*, so what you on about?"

"datisi failed spectacularly"

lol

I think the first argument is flawed because wagons, especially day 1 get popular for a reason. Also pressuring top wagons is also literally pro town as it could help you actually determine who the mafia actually are between these wagons so...

[Cape90]

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

[Cape90]

I think Malcolm is towning this game. A lot of good arguments were presented and 947 is a decent progression read on Nordom from Malcolm

[Cape90]

nordom is town for his interaction with deasvail

and which convo was this exactly?

[Cape90]

VOTE: Eyes Without A Face

Okay I like the direction of MathBlade

I do not think Eyes is at all towny and is resorting to just kind of making easy posts

[Cape90]

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

You’re never flipping me, ever. You’d have more luck flipping the mod or selling for a loss in the US real estate market.

You know what, I like you

[Cape90]

Datisi is the leading wagon I believe despite taking up a lot of space and actually playing the game. To my understanding No one townreads him except one person who knows him more intimately than others, it seems. He is not a polarizing slot as much as a universally southnull slot.

Wu seems to blend into the background more with less content/words ratio.

Monkey is a more polarizing slot rather than purely getting flak. I could be biased since I was one of the monkey defenders.

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Let’s get some wagons going, guys. I don’t want to stall around all day and move last minute and scramble when we can just go sheep sheep sheep.

It is interesting that Datisi is pretty much universally very unpopular today (except in Aristeia’s eyes, but I worry she may be biased. Nevertheless I am still keeping her opinion very much in mind because I presume she knows him well).

Is he normally this unpopular at gamestart?

Re Yeet - I don't think they've been particularly scummy yet and their early assertions felt bold for a mafia who'd want to blend in, but this sequence of posts was really, really bad. At one moment claiming Datisi is the most heavily suspected player and then in the next post claiming not enough pressure is going on them. Which is it?

I do note Yeet's not posted at all since this sequence either. I dunno, if Yeet is mafia then they may have felt they went in too heavily in the early stages and want to sit back later. Although it could be more of a timezone thing depending on when they post, but that's around 17 hours now.

when you put it in this order it made sense, however, then I realized the quoted posts were completely out of order and all posted around the same time with the last post being the actual first post, which threw me for a loop.

But now that I understand the post, I think what yeet's progression is kinda peculiar there.

[Cape90]

you think he's scum

Did bussing ever cross your mind

[Cape90]

like we're less than 48 hours in. yea there's been a lot of pages, but there's really barely been anything that you could truly call a wagon

Would you consider this a bad thing?

[Cape90]

And monkey was painted to be scummy but wasn’t

why not

[Cape90]

And monkey was painted to be scummy but wasn’t

why not

Because he’s a mason he can’t be scum
Naturally scum say town are scummy
But there’s nothing scummy in the ISO

Nothing scummy in the ISO...

lmao.

Maybe easy to say because you weren't here to witness his early game

[Cape90]

I am guessing people know about the neighborhood now. I mean Nero made it kinda obvious with how he was obviously actively avoiding talking about me this whole time

[Cape90]

vp baltar is my spirit animal

This comment is not w/w with VP

[Cape90]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88600&user_select%5B%5D=29653

This is town her ISO

.

anything in particular that made you word this post like this? I'm not sure I understand what the town part in there is supposed to say

[Cape90]

That’s scum motivated

or encouraged

Encouraged by what?

Dude this is the second time on a page where I just simply don't get what you are saying

[Cape90]

oh it's a town ISO from a different game. Vibes are a little different here. The sample size is a bit unconvincing to me as it only encapsulates one game

[Cape90]

@ everyone

is cape town

Probably
Why do u think i'm sus of u ?

I am not super sure what exactly makes me so town to you, especially coming from a slot who's opinions I do not at all recall on my slot.

[Cape90]

but I must say the readslist in 1063 strikes me as being a lot of words but doesn't actually give me a strong idea of why your reads are what they are.

yeah, I would say it has a lot of generalizations, and for more then 1000 posts into the game, it does concern me a little bit. I think fua has looked okay though

[Cape90]

@baltar, is there a reason why you did not include me in the early readslist? i see you have a null category, and pretty sure i had posted at the time

I started with the full list of names at the start of my catch up and was slotting them into those piles as I was going along and getting feelings one way or the other. So while I had a null category, by the time I finished read I was kind of tired and didn't feel like writing out WHY I felt null on a bunch of people still (including you), I just knew I wasn't ready to make an alignment call on those people yet.

this exchange just feels so wrong

i mean he's prob scum .

So Nero, you seem pretty locked into the fact that:
1. there are 2 scum in our neighborhood
2. That I am town versus skitter and VP Baltar even though I definitely feel like I have done less then both.

Why is this exactly

[Cape90]

Like Skitter hasn’t had a “ping” she gets pings. It’s weird.

what does this mean?

and like, the rest of your post could be easily explained by different circumstances that precedent, especially for what i imagine happened in the mason pt, but

idk if i have it in me rn to argue

It’s a word tell.

Skitter gets “pings” when town.
I don’t see that here for her

ok i was gonna make fun of this cause it doesn't say anything about whether she gets "pings" as maf, but instead i decided to just go check some recent games

slaughter hour (maf): 0 pings, 350 posts
open 841 (town): 11 pings, 1073 posts
micro 1035 (town): 3 pings, 295 posts
mini 2254 (town): 1 ping, 77 posts
mini 2247 (maf): 1 ping, 130 hydra posts
mini normal 2224 (maf): 0 pings, 50 posts
open 779 (town): 7 pings, 305 posts

this game: 1 ping, 130 posts

so maybe she does actually get pings less as maf. but her pings per post (ppp) as town is like 1 per 100 posts and she's kinda on pace with that so idk if it's conclusive. but this was fun at least

ping ping ping ping

I have no idea how you all even come up with this stuff

[Cape90]

Ari is scum and when asked to explain their reads throws a hisssy fit? I kinda think that scum would have reacted in a more "pro-town" manner. + that whole "u fell into my trap!" just seems so...silly. Isn't pooky supposed to be really good? b/c this doesn't really look it to me.

By extension, doesn't this literally fit in with the argument against Aristeia in 217, 219, 223, 224, 227, 229, 231, 233, 504, 510 etc, etc.?

[Cape90]

Hi April

[Cape90]

i also don't think she'd have much of a reason to defend me if she were scum since she sometimes misreads town!me, so not like i had a bop on her or anything

I feel kind meh on this read, especially since it kinda just has to do with stuff that would be readily observable to those "not in the know". I usaully see this sort of thing brought up later, but I mean, I guess we are kinda deep into this game

[Cape90]

IMO this is a policy lim and Math and Ari are most likely TvT.

excuse me what

[Cape90]

I am on the spectrum so much as I wish I was NT I sometimes notice certain patterns. I have to care about pings for my job. So using the word ping stands out to me. Kinda like a little I look forward to it.

I wish I could just like, do that

[Cape90]

Can someone walk me through why the yeet vote is even a thing?

I cant be here for too long until tonight

[Cape90]

I feel that I am being very transparent and open with my thought process and I have answered anxieties about me adequately.

I'm reading through teet right now. I think this post encapsulates why I am not seeing yeet as scummy. They seem genuine.

[Cape90]

I think that 2101 is an odd thing to comment on about the hood that they are not even a part of. Maybe they are trying to cool the discussion of this or just flat out know all 4 of us are town. Either way it feels like pretty empty speculation.

VOTE: GeneralWu

Latest postings from Eyes has been decent. I kinda like the double down on a... very meh post admittedly in 2427. I also kinda like 2404. I think General is a stronger vote then this and definitely Yeet

[Cape90]

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

this also looks like a WIFOM attempt at a frame job if General flips red

[Cape90]

I think you are scum as people are defending you by attacking me versus explaining why they TR you.

You know, I think this might mean that some people defending me are scum.

There is also this which is pretty similar and is a bit generalized too

[Cape90]

Cape, can you explain how you went from calling Wu town to hammering him?

Also, why did you keep explaining your vote after you hammered?

Okay I am here.

Firstly, I thought the votes were still split between Yeet and GeneralWu. So I didn't even think we were near hammer, which is why I kept talking.

Second off I thought General was town in the beginning of the game, but then they progressively just kinda did less and less and when they had traction, they were just saying some eyebrow raising things. That I felt were concerning.

[Cape90]

So I didn't even think we were near hammer, which is why I kept talking.

Also this part

I would think this would be pretty self-evident which makes me suspicious that you question me on this VP

[Cape90]

@Yeet can you explain your discrepancies between posts 1214, 1629, 2002 and post 2218.

Initially you push Fua over a pretty consistent period of time, and yet after their vigilante reveal you then indicate you got a vibe they may have had their given role? If that was the case, why were you pushing Fua as potential mafia so consistently?

I'm really not sure what to make of your slot so far in general. Early on you struck me as very town - you were boldly making sometimes baseless accusations without any care as to how you came across but that helped progress the game. But it's notable that your playing style has since changed a fair bit, you seem a bit more tentative now when it comes to making outright accusations despite us having more to go on. Your play feels deliberately more measured and careful, but I'm not sure why that is...after all you didn't necessarily come under a lot of heat for your early posts.

I thought fua’s demeanor made sense with a very specific town role vig. When they claimed that role like exactly, it just clicked for me.

Regardless my demeanor that’s some like psychoanalysis stuff that I’m not really self-aware of, lol. It could have to be with getting under vote pressure changed my tone a bit?

I am vibing with VP it seems

I dunno, I feel like this has nervous energy.

I didn't really think the progression on Fua was scummy but more was kinda a thing that didn't really make a lot of sense, but now this has me more skeptical

[Cape90]

Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse

Ah, the casual "whatever cape says I am going to discredit it".

I am gonna be honest, I wasn't counting at all, I just remembered this one VC I saw and thought we were approximately there it was like you had 4 votes and Wu had 5 or something. There might have been a very quick shift in threadstate because it really wasn't that far off from where I was.

Yes wow, that's NAI, who would have guessed, even I know that, it's just called I was lazy and lol hammered because E-1 wasn't announced.

[Cape90]

I see no reason why today shouldn't end in the death of 1 of VP, Eyes, Skitter or April.

VOTE: VP

I mean he's prob scum anyways but he's already claimed so low risk, high reward

What's your read on Eyes so far? Not been a whole lot there, struggling to figure out if their frustration with the high post count is genuine town frustration or not.

Malcolm what do you think of Scorpius, they have been doing the same thing ad nauseum. I think they literally put more effort into answering a joke question then trying to solve the entire game.

Look at 2294 and 2361 for reference. Look at the rest of what Scorpius has to say, then come back to me.

[Cape90]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

This doesn’t make sense at all.
Discussing reads in hoods is protown
Pushing people to post is protown.

Can you elaborate on why you say this?

And the hood should be used regardless of scum presence.

if there are 2 scum in there, I call it a waste of time personally

[Cape90]

VP you absolutely REEK

[Cape90]

VP you absolutely REEK of an agenda (stop sending things early lmao, idk what did that)

[Cape90]

VP you absolutely REEK of an agenda (stop sending things early lmao, idk what did that)

Lemme explain. I think you have been inconsistent with your treatment of the hood.

I also want to point out before the skitter quote that I am gonna show off that they were townreading skitter a lot. 2029, oh and 705 is quite the gem in hedginess. 696, 690 (talking to bottom yeet quote). 590.

I also do want to mention that VP repeatedly questions skitter on Nero 897 (which this is odd because literally VP is thinking that Nero is scum), 1108.

So they kinda go from just flat out shielding skitter to kinda just poking them and lightly shading them later on. Sussy baka if you ask me.

Now let's talk about Nero.

So VP's first interaction with Nero starts out with 310 which leads into the humorous 312 into 313. Nero is nowhere to be found in VP's early readslist in 523. Just noting it.

The "your better then this!" thing seems forced in at 684.
In 750 VP was talking about how Nero was having this read on GeneralWu's fluffposting calling that "whatever". Anyway, oddly enough in 1293 they vote Wu, cool, so as a sidestep, how does that progress? 1344, 1939 (woah calm down there buddy, I thought Wu was "whatever" ). 1940, 1952, you know, just a casual getting aggressive, also HEM was mega towny at this point, especially with MathBlade on board so as they say in like middle school or something, ratio. gottem. 1995 Gotta ask Ari twice I guess. 2004, 2009, and then they just 2222 they, they.. they... vote yeet??

Oh let's ignore

2214

though

. Well, there was 2381. But then like, a post later, they just... kinda swap back to GeneralWu (2388) who I still don't really get why VP pushed here. Also wouldn't Wu be the logical play? You said so yourself 2128.

Back to Nero, so Nero already got shaded in 684 right? But then with skitter they question Skitter on why they dislike Nero which again, is in 897. Oh and again in 1107. 1208 is a lovely addition to the Wu cannon arc. Blah Blah Blah a lot of shading on Nero for shading VP in omgus city and also VP was shading Nero on not going with the Wu wagon, when Nero was literally the one who first presented this idea to VP.

Let's talk about my favorite person in the whole world ME! /j
523 calls me town for... reasons.
Basically spends a lot of day 1 not even interacting with me.
Lemme just pull up a lovely quote.

I'm also in a 4p hood with VP, Cape, and Skitter. I doubt its all 4 town and im town and cape is prob town. It's why I've been pushing that at least 1 of them is scum but I don't think it's impossible that both VP and Skitter are scum.

I'd like to see a dead Skitter or Ari's rep the most. Maybe Fua is scum that was buddying me. Don't really care that much about Wu staying alive.

How did I see this coming!

Can confirm, we are in a neighborhood. Nero has been poking around revealing to the thread for awhile now, and he is either dumbass town or scum trying to get ahead of the ball here.

Not much has happened in the hood. There was one weird interaction before the game started where skitter did some shading of Cape that I didn't care for

, but Nero's play in game has been much scummier and I think he's very jittery for being town.

If I had to guess, the scum in the neighborhood is between Nero and skitter, but I'm not at all certain.

So obviously here VP was on the side that I was the town in the hood. Nero also shared this same sentiment and even approached me in the hood asking about if I thought there was scum in the hood, which is an idea I had since the start since 4 neighbors felt like a lot of a 19er. The whole skitter thing is a big nothingburger of a read and I big laugh.

Oh but my HUGE problem with how VP Baltar treated me goes as follows, it is mostly about today.

So as you may know, I hammered GeneralWu, felt as if they were turning sketch and didn't do a whole lot, right?
So then as you know, today VP Baltar voted me in 2595 keep in mind, Yeet literally voted me first and VP literally passively called me town all of day 1.
Well you see at night in the neighborhood my good friend VP made this lovely in passing comment about how I should be questioned about my hammer if he dies and that Yeet should be questioned too.
Okay so what is the problem with that.
The problem with that is...

I am literally in your hood, talk to me you actual coward

.

Yeah, I was never directly reached out about that. Maybe you should have literally asked me, especially if you think I am mafia for doing so,

I am right there I literally can respond to you

.
Okay so you were advocating about how we should not use the hood until we "descum" it right? (2608)
Well, I kinda had the same stance as you until I thought about it more, and I feel like it would have just been more beneficial to question me about it right?
VP let's say hypothetically, that you are town and I am mafia. You call me out for the hammer I made on GeneralWu in the hood. If you were actually trying to solve the game, I feel like you should have just directly asked me at night, it really isnt that hard.
What are the drawbacks you ask?
If VP is town, there literally isn't a drawback.
If I am mafia, I might be all like "oh no this VP dude is onto me boys, we should kill this VP dude to silence him".
Thing is if the night kill was ever you VP, this literally mega spews Nero as town I believe, so there would be the trade off in that scenario right, plus there could be speculation on why you were killed, you literally did almost nothing to warrant a night kill on you in this thread if indeed you are town Ima be real with you.
Obviously if this isn't the case and all that, I feel like it would literally benefit you one way or the other to try to figure out my alignment, that sounds like common sense to me. Like I literally don't see the drawbacks in questioning me at night.
unless...
you are mafia and just want to just use it as a tool to push me the next day.

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

anyway I almost guarantee there is one mafia between VP Baltar and Scorpius.

This game is really just that easy

[Cape90]

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

You... realize you were the counterwagon don't you.

If you think about that and you are town, now my scum motivation becomes

to end the day quicker.

By whatever Wu was doing, I really doubt the threadstate would have changed that much within those 2 days or whatever it was that we had left.

I apologize that you are either scum or not using your brain. Now anyway scum sheeped you, what do you do?

[Cape90]

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

If anything because it has hyperlinks it was not a planned hammer so lean more town

what are you even talking about

[Cape90]

VOTE: VP Baltar

Alright cool that's the response I needed to make sure I am not pulling a Datisi.

[Cape90]

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

You made that giant post after I called you out and you don't actually vote me?

Who you calling a coward?

This game is really just that easy

Well then the other one better be scum since its so easy .. Cause I ain't

VOTE: VP Baltar

as a word of advice

this only confirms the fact to me that one of you is mafia and you are probably not both town

[Cape90]

For the record, I made a post last night about 30 mins before deadline expired calling out Cape because I didn't want my actual thoughts on the game to go to the grave with me. I figured if I ate a vig shot or something, at least someone who is town could carry on my concerns today.

Judging by the size and extent of that post Cape just made, it seems clear to me he started writing that response about at that point knowing I was going to come out of the gates at him today. The fact there is no vote there on a giant wall case makes no sense.

I mean, if you think that you clearly aren't looking at my fucking wall post

[Cape90]

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

You made that giant post after I called you out and you don't actually vote me?

Who you calling a coward?

This game is really just that easy

Well then the other one better be scum since its so easy .. Cause I ain't

VOTE: VP Baltar

as a word of advice

this only confirms the fact to me that one of you is mafia and you are probably not both town

Why cant they both be town?

I think Scorpius' response here looks like it should be the brightest red light to VP if VP is town.

If VP is town, with Scorpius, I literally failed and did all that work for nothing. Also Scorpius literally put more effort in their meme response thing then the entire game itself. But I think if VP is mafia, it spews Scorpius as town.

So on why they can't both be town... it's because I believe it I am good at reads as town when I put in the effort, and I am going to actually cry if either of these funny guys are town. VP appears as if they are huge flailing right now so if they are town, not sure how much playing of mafia since 2008 has helped him, like come on, I was a literal child back then, I think VP should be better then they are playing right now and is playing the classic aggro mafia.

[Cape90]

How long do you think it took Cape to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely.

you think that's improbable? LMAO do I have to link you my town games? You immediately pinged me when you voted me today, so I just took a little bo peep in that ISO of yours and found incredible baggage.

Cape knew he was going to have to respond with an overwhelming show of effort to sway town to his side

I was bored, but thanks for showing you have an agenda. Yet again

[Cape90]

This is where I am at right now. I think I have too many town reads

town:

Frogsterking - 24, 71, 135, 194, 150

light town:

skitter30 - 33. 67. 172 bottom part sticks out a lot
Aristeia - 218 felt genuine. Voting monkey is good .
fireisredsir - 197 seems to take 178 a little too for granted. 87.
DeasVail - 110, 152, 168 for this last one, I think trying to randomly convince another person of a townread you have is town+.
GeneralWu

null:

Datisi (I will try again later idk),

light mafia:

tenebrousluminary - 116 just has a tone about it that I think looks not so great.

mafia:

humaneatingmonkey

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

False

both players look good off of that post.

Fire doesn't see it as a sort of joke read as I initially did.

Frogs somehow justifies this read GeneralWu as like "Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town?" which feels like such a stretch that it just wounds up being a towny stretch.

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

I think that 2101 is an odd thing to comment on about the hood that they are not even a part of. Maybe they are trying to cool the discussion of this or just flat out know all 4 of us are town. Either way it feels like pretty empty speculation.

VOTE: GeneralWu

Latest postings from Eyes has been decent. I kinda like the double down on a... very meh post admittedly in 2427. I also kinda like 2404. I think General is a stronger vote then this and definitely Yeet

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

this also looks like a WIFOM attempt at a frame job if General flips red

I think you are scum as people are defending you by attacking me versus explaining why they TR you.

You know, I think this might mean that some people defending me are scum.

There is also this which is pretty similar and is a bit generalized too

Here is Cape's full progression on Wu.

Has him as a light town read early on. Defends him a bit. Says he's been a nonpresence. Then votes him and gives three posts of reasoning why.

Like, I would totally buy "eh, I just wanted to end the day." The over explanation of the vote stinks. The progression of the read stinks. The not asking for a claim before hammering in a day when PRs got run up stinks.

Cape can go on and on about "VP is mean and has an agenda", but the facts are in Cape's posts and vote. That has nothing to do about agenda and if he was town, he'd spend his time explaining his thought process and reasoning rather than trying to shade me and act like he's a victim.

"HoW lOnG dO yOu ThInK iT tOoK VP to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely."

It wasn't that hard to quote 4 posts was it, in fact, didn't take you that long at all.

[Cape90]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

I'm sorry I didn't vote you instead

[Cape90]

This is where I am at right now. I think I have too many town reads

town:

Frogsterking - 24, 71, 135, 194, 150

light town:

skitter30 - 33. 67. 172 bottom part sticks out a lot
Aristeia - 218 felt genuine. Voting monkey is good .
fireisredsir - 197 seems to take 178 a little too for granted. 87.
DeasVail - 110, 152, 168 for this last one, I think trying to randomly convince another person of a townread you have is town+.
GeneralWu

null:

Datisi (I will try again later idk),

light mafia:

tenebrousluminary - 116 just has a tone about it that I think looks not so great.

mafia:

humaneatingmonkey

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

False

both players look good off of that post.

Fire doesn't see it as a sort of joke read as I initially did.

Frogs somehow justifies this read GeneralWu as like "Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town?" which feels like such a stretch that it just wounds up being a towny stretch.

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

I think that 2101 is an odd thing to comment on about the hood that they are not even a part of. Maybe they are trying to cool the discussion of this or just flat out know all 4 of us are town. Either way it feels like pretty empty speculation.

VOTE: GeneralWu

Latest postings from Eyes has been decent. I kinda like the double down on a... very meh post admittedly in 2427. I also kinda like 2404. I think General is a stronger vote then this and definitely Yeet

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

this also looks like a WIFOM attempt at a frame job if General flips red

I think you are scum as people are defending you by attacking me versus explaining why they TR you.

You know, I think this might mean that some people defending me are scum.

There is also this which is pretty similar and is a bit generalized too

Here is Cape's full progression on Wu.

Has him as a light town read early on. Defends him a bit. Says he's been a nonpresence. Then votes him and gives three posts of reasoning why.

Like, I would totally buy "eh, I just wanted to end the day." The over explanation of the vote stinks. The progression of the read stinks. The not asking for a claim before hammering in a day when PRs got run up stinks.

Cape can go on and on about "VP is mean and has an agenda", but the facts are in Cape's posts and vote. That has nothing to do about agenda and if he was town, he'd spend his time explaining his thought process and reasoning rather than trying to shade me and act like he's a victim.

I am more mean. I have no soul.

Anyways, I just kinda wasn't here most of the time, I thought they looked towny early on and then they dropped off.

also 792 literally isn't directly about Wu. I was referring to fire and frogs there, probably should have clarified.

Okay so I call Wu a "nonpresence" that isn't exactly the amazing townread you think it is and Mathblade literally became the towniest of the towns so... oh I was also pushing Nordom you ask before Wu, which... actually makes sense? Amazing.

Those 2 bottom posts were pretty classic scum posts if you ask me. "The people defending me are scum" type of post isn't a sentiment that sits right with me.

[Cape90]

Yeah, I was never directly reached out about that. Maybe you should have literally asked me, especially if you think I am mafia for doing so, I am right there I literally can respond to you.

Oh yeah totally....

VOTE: Cape90 Let’s start with this greedy hammer vote. Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse. I am unhappy that instead of running Wu up, we ended up straight hammering him, and I have seen scum just go for the kill because wifom. Why Cape is getting zero scrutiny is shocking to me.Plus they are in a hood with VP and Nero and skitter who I all believe to be stronger town than Cape atm.

VOTE: cape

Gonna be a min before I can catch up but this was also my read overnight.

Cape, can you explain how you went from calling Wu town to hammering him?

Also, why did you keep explaining your vote after you hammered?

OH SHIIIIIII......

In the neighborhood you circus performer

[Cape90]

Cape and Baltar is probably TvT.

what makes you believe that Baltar is town?

[Cape90]

The last step is

komi

, the bonus points awarded to white for making black go first. In most rules it is either 6.5 or 7.5, with the .5 being to avoid draws. Following Japanese rules, which uses territory counting and 6.5 komi that would be black winning by +11.5.

---

Official Votecount 1.17

Yeet (4): Frogsterking, humaneatingmonkey, VP Baltar, Datisi

[E-6]

GeneralWu (3): tenebrousluminary, fireisredsir, Yeet
fua (2): skitter30, April Ludgate
skitter30 (2): fua, MathBlade
Nero Cain(1): Nero Cain
Eyes without a face (1): Cape90
April Ludgate (1): Save The Dragons

Not Voting (5): Scorpious, DeasVail, MalcolmTucker, Eyes without a face, GeneralWu

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to achieve an eliminaton.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-03-12 05:15:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

I beleive I saw this VC and assumed that General didn't gain majority, dude gained majority really fast and 2 people got off Yeet

[Cape90]

I beleive I saw this VC and assumed that General didn't gain majority, dude gained majority really fast and 2 people got off Yeet

EBWOP: 3 actually, FrogsterKing was the ONLY one that stayed, EoD VC is 2438 which really isn't that long of a time from the other VC I pulled up, like it really isn't

Datisi/VP/

humaneatingmonkey

I find the other 2 here... interesting.

[Cape90]

EoD VC is 2438 which really isn't that long of a time from the other VC I pulled up,

My question is why you didn't skim pages inbetween to see if votes had shifted? Even if you aren't reading, that's pretty standard play isn't it?

Dude how am I supposed to assume that in the span of 62 posts that 7 new votes will have been cast on GeneralWu. That seems like common sense to think that that sort of thing would be completely out of the ordinary if it's not even EoD yet.

Fua never said it was E-1 at the time, why isn't that slot mafia and I am mafia, they silently almost hammered the vote after all and didn't warn of E-1.

I really want to put this into perspective.

so in the span of 62 posts, 7 of these were votes on GeneralWu, which means that around 11% of the posts created between those 62 posts were votes on Wu, not even to mention if you discount me, so thagt would be 62 posts with 6 of them being votes which is still a pretty decent 9%, 10% if rounded up in fact. So why would I assume such a bizzare scenario. Honestly that big of a quick push onto GeneralWu, which included you mind you, I believe to be a bit sketch.

I will count those in order who voted GeneralWu past 2376. SaveTheDragons (4), VP Baltar (5) (also made Yeet 3),

human

(6) (Yeet 2), Datisi (literally a post after Monkey) (7) (Yeet 1), (Eyes Without a Face votes FrogsterKing in this space of time... interesting), Math (8), fua (9), me (10). This all happened in the span of

one

page by the way.

[Cape90]

fire is dead?

[Cape90]

no they aren't cape what are you doing

[Cape90]

This all happened in the span of one page by the way.

Right, what I'm saying is that should have been easy to spot at even a passing glimpse. You saw the vote count but didn't see any of the 7 votes that happened shortly after it?

I saw some of them but I really didn't think it shifted that much

[Cape90]

the "self-consciousness" is scummy if coming from a new player, but nai if coming from an experienced player, and they've claimed they're experienced so /shrug

This seems like a strange take. Why exactly would this self-consciousness thing be NAI from an experienced player.

[Cape90]

Well i am replace of Fua.

Deets you should know:

Math is confirmed Mason.

There is a hood of: Nero, skitter, Cap90, VP.

There's a lot of useless posting in this game (maybe even some from me in the last few pages while I was catching up, sorry all!)

april here is the replacement info post. also VP is claimed ascetic, enchant (fua) is claimed vig who tried to shoot me last night and nothing happened

want this in my ISO, thank you.

And Math can hopefully trust me because if I were scum, I'd be pushing them as scum as a mason like last time

but

why

[Cape90]

I've had like three posts, anyone saying I'm scummy is pulling it out of their ass. I've only been in this game less than 48 hours total of day time.

people were suspecting fua, not like their content magically doesn't exist. Also in those less then 48 hours, big shrug I am gonna be honest

[Cape90]

so, like, in total? 6.5/10, my gamestate reads aren't always great, but i would not mind a wagon here

what does a 6.5/10 mean?

[Cape90]

i know you said cape was town after the "TvT" cape had

but i'm questioning the action of targeting them in the first place.

i don't know what kind of spot we're in as town. i think i've got a few suspects and if we target one of them i think we'll be in good shape. TvT fights can be good because it helps eliminate suspects.

you seem to have scum reads here:

It's because I was scummy before for my hammer on GeneralWu?

Are like, you gonna read into things or ask pointless questions?

[Cape90]

i know you said cape was town after the "TvT" cape had

but i'm questioning the action of targeting them in the first place.

i don't know what kind of spot we're in as town. i think i've got a few suspects and if we target one of them i think we'll be in good shape. TvT fights can be good because it helps eliminate suspects.

you seem to have scum reads here:

It's because I was scummy before for my hammer on GeneralWu?

Are like, you gonna read into things or ask pointless questions?

huh? i'm saying it's weird to target you for hammering wu

are you defending yeet for attacking you for the hammer?

Why would it be weird though. It feels pretty straightforward to me that hammering early like that is anti town right?

[Cape90]

so, like, in total? 6.5/10, my gamestate reads aren't always great, but i would not mind a wagon here

what does a 6.5/10 mean?

official datisi rating of the scorpious wagon

btw can we kill enchant pls he's like blatantly scum who's coasting on a bullshit vig claim

I am almost on board with this, but Enchant was kinda scummy the last game we played with them. I am looking at Save The Dragons right now because it feels odd the slot hasn't been pushed really despite having an underwhelming beginning and less posts then I have right now

[Cape90]

frogster pinged me in my catch up but i'm a little wary of the wagon so far

I don't like how effortless and has a good chance of being fake of a read this feels

[Cape90]

not sure how much playing of mafia since 2008 has helped him, like come on, I was a literal child back then

i feel so old now

wow this place existed for a long time.

Hey anyway how do you feel about April Ludgate right now

[Cape90]

i know you said cape was town after the "TvT" cape had

but i'm questioning the action of targeting them in the first place.

i don't know what kind of spot we're in as town. i think i've got a few suspects and if we target one of them i think we'll be in good shape. TvT fights can be good because it helps eliminate suspects.

you seem to have scum reads here:

It's because I was scummy before for my hammer on GeneralWu?

Are like, you gonna read into things or ask pointless questions?

huh? i'm saying it's weird to target you for hammering wu

are you defending yeet for attacking you for the hammer?

Why would it be weird though. It feels pretty straightforward to me that hammering early like that is anti town right?

should i have ignored any other points and jumped on the wagon when yeet started it?

Not saying that, though I generally find those who start wagons like this to be probably town, now on the subject of VP Baltar, now that's a scum who jumped on my wagon as they have a clear and defined agenda.

[Cape90]

I am almost on board with this, but Enchant was kinda scummy the last game we played with them.

i used to be one of the people that said "enchant is always obvscum wtf"

then i had two (2) games where i correctly townread enchant as obvtown

hint: he's not being obvtown here >_>

VOTE: Enchant

Eh sure. Couple things from VP might be town.
Couple things from Save The Dragons might be town.
As for Enchant... eh.
I think April's push on Malcolm looks surface level towny even though I think Malcolm is 83.4% town

[Cape90]

hy you want . executed 4 times?

Never liked that guy

Why STD not in list?

Why do you suspect Save The Dragons?

[Cape90]

Well i am replace of Fua.

Deets you should know:

Math is confirmed Mason.

There is a hood of: Nero, skitter, Cap90, VP.

There's a lot of useless posting in this game (maybe even some from me in the last few pages while I was catching up, sorry all!)

april here is the replacement info post. also VP is claimed ascetic, enchant (fua) is claimed vig who tried to shoot me last night and nothing happened

want this in my ISO, thank you.

And Math can hopefully trust me because if I were scum, I'd be pushing them as scum as a mason like last time

but

why

I'm extremely convincing as scum, and bordeline psychotic when I am :shrug:

I was wondering why you wanted that quote chain in your ISO

[Cape90]

I am almost on board with this, but Enchant was kinda scummy the last game we played with them.

i used to be one of the people that said "enchant is always obvscum wtf"

then i had two (2) games where i correctly townread enchant as obvtown

hint: he's not being obvtown here >_>

VOTE: Enchant

Eh sure. Couple things from VP might be town.
Couple things from Save The Dragons might be town.
As for Enchant... eh.
I think April's push on Malcolm looks surface level towny even though I think Malcolm is 83.4% town

Not even sure if i am scum but voting anyway.

I know and you know that you haven't been here for long. But if you really want to just say this, this response doesn't look good from you FMPOV

[Cape90]

If you think i am happy to jump in Vig who claimed D1, well PARTLY.

why wouldn't this make you happy, I wanna gun

[Cape90]

I tried getting scumpings from frogsterking. I failed. Looked over there, I didn't see mafia. I kinda just saw a meta read on them that I don't exactly trust.

[Cape90]

not interested in an enchant wagon

what makes enchant town? They seem a little loose with their postings right now

[Cape90]

VOTE: Scorpius

Sources: I looked at fua's logs again. Became not interested in perusing the wagon

[Cape90]

2435 is definitely a post scum!me would make in order to go "ackchually i didn't know it was hammer i didn't count hehehe" and my short history of playing with cape tells me he is the kind of person who *would* be paying attention to how many votes there are on someone, anyway

You played one game with me so clearly you can deduce that what you are saying is complete hogwash yeah? It really isn't super convenient on this site to just see who voted what, also I really wouldn't expect such a heavy shift in votes when we were not even near EoD. It was very easy to keep track of the votes in the normal blitz game, but I was literally just on a constant catch up mode for most of this entire game. Should I have looked? Yes. I knew that they received like some votes, like I was thinking 2 or 3 more, not hecking 6 others.
So I keep seeing a bunch of people be like "oh what Cape did has clear scum motivation!" Does it? I don't think it does, what would I try to accomplish with an early hammer? Is Yeet my scum partner? The thread wasn't even suspicious of my slot until I hammered. If I am mafia, this only hurts me unless like Yeet is my scumpartner right? I really don't see my scum motivation there, also I BET one of you would have lolhammered that if not me, just saying, and it wouldn't mean shit probably.

Also, let's think about why I would post 2 messages after a vote has been achieved on someone. I mean, I think this would be against the rules under normal circumstances yeah? But obviously I just

knew

I hammered the vote. Flawless logic I must say. Anyway Datisi the votes say you are mafia, I don't think your content particularly does, also you seem adamant on following my votes despite your laughable suspicion of me, so you are pinging me my good friend.

if i were there now, i'd be voting cape. 2610 feels like a "how DARE you question me on my speedy lolhammer you SCUMFUCK" shadethrowing when it's like, quite obvious why he should be getting questioned for it, the defensiveness feels unusual because like, obviously he's getting shit for it

LOL I mean your not wrong VP did ping me there. Also Datisi, I kinda see this and I think your full of it, your cocky

VOTE: Datisi

scum

[Cape90]

you mean like it totally hadn't changed with math and monkey and fua right? because there's no such thing that could shift the gamestate instantly riiight?

There was literally 9 insta votes on GeneralWu. I don't think his Miselim was being avoided no matter if the day was being prolonged or not.

2692 - ok probably at most one scum in baltar/cape/scorpious

Correct, thunderdome me. there is 1 scum between Cape and Datisi, let's go. I am popping off ProHawk style.

this is interesting since i recall when in a previous game cape and i were t/t and he made a similarly-sounding huge wallcase on why i'm scum and i think i did get voted there, and then i got unvoted 5 minutes later because lol but like point being

But cape is mafia this game amiright?

Anyway, what is the mindshift?

[Cape90]

Datisi has their sights on too many town. You with me Frogsterking?

[Cape90]

i'm cocky yeah

how is that scummy?

Listen, I get why i should be questioned for my lolhammer the other day. But really it's just getting tiring and frustrating to even deal with because I know you and VP and all that will just tunnel me incessantly for it.

I don't think cocky was the right word

It was like

You are obviously posturing and I don't think you believe the words you are saying, you are forcing out something onto me. You literally have jumped on like 2 wagons with me today around the same time too! i struggle how you are believing in real thoughts. Also it really looks like you have your sight set on just multiple people all at once with somehow even less direction then me, and yet you shade me for being directionless?

[Cape90]

Anyway, what is the mindshift?

the mindshift where you voted me very easily in that blitz game, and hell voted generalwu very easily on d1, but seemed very timid in actually playing a vote down on baltar

It should be very obvious after the blitz game why I would be hesitant voting someone after a big wallpost I made

[Cape90]

Datisi also seems to love throwing around this very ironic word "opportunistic" when they only said that word once in the blitz game. Datisi's play has been riddled with oddities around this section of the game and.

The best word I can use is "hostile"

I think you could use that word for me but I am kinda just more frustrated. But Datisi feels

hostile

3049, 3037 (the haha is like ???), 2879, 3383.

I will be off for a bit

[Cape90]

UNVOTE: Datisi

I will hold for now actually.

Some thoughts I had that kinda just came to me.

1. Does VP Baltar actually have the thought that communicating in our neighborhood at night is anti town until we "descumify" our hood? Like a night ago I agreed with this until I actually sat down and thought about that and then came to the realization that there literally is no downside really to talking in there at night or whatever.

2. I find it really strange that Nero Cain hasn't really been pushed by either of VP Baltar or Datisi as it seems kinda obvious by the way that Nero has basically been lowkey shielding me and suspecting VP, like since day 1, like this whole time. I want to revisit this like tomorrow or something.

3. As much as i don't like VP like, kinda just shrugging off my big case on them and saying some pretty evidently false things about the wall, like if you took a look at it for one second, it's obvious it wasn't like, prewritted/preplanned from the night before, but it's pretty clear that VP doesn't have too much intention really debunking me... but Datisi does, and still scumreads me off of it.

4. As much as I want to think that my suspicions on VP/Datisi/Scorpius are good. Well, the thing is, I am usually accurate on my scumreads, but the problem is is that I usually have more focus. Focus that I just kinda am thinking I am lacking right now this game. Especially with me not thinking of ruling out anybody from my neighborhood from POE.

5. I think I don't want to push the following players: Yeet, MalcolmTucker, fireisredsir. And then there comes some other people like Save The Dragons (I think recent content is good + they seem consistent in logic when I questioned them on April), tenebrousluminary, DeasVail who I think are all relatively towny and

[Cape90]

UNVOTE: Datisi

I will hold for now actually.

Some thoughts I had that kinda just came to me.

1. Does VP Baltar actually have the thought that communicating in our neighborhood at night is anti town until we "descumify" our hood? Like a night ago I agreed with this until I actually sat down and thought about that and then came to the realization that there literally is no downside really to talking in there at night or whatever.

2. I find it really strange that Nero Cain hasn't really been pushed by either of VP Baltar or Datisi as it seems kinda obvious by the way that Nero has basically been lowkey shielding me and suspecting VP, like since day 1, like this whole time. I want to revisit this like tomorrow or something.

3. As much as i don't like VP like, kinda just shrugging off my big case on them and saying some pretty evidently false things about the wall, like if you took a look at it for one second, it's obvious it wasn't like, prewritted/preplanned from the night before, but it's pretty clear that VP doesn't have too much intention really debunking me... but Datisi does, and still scumreads me off of it.

4. As much as I want to think that my suspicions on VP/Datisi/Scorpius are good. Well, the thing is, I am usually accurate on my scumreads, but the problem is is that I usually have more focus. Focus that I just kinda am thinking I am lacking right now this game. Especially with me not thinking of ruling out anybody from my neighborhood from POE.

5. I think I don't want to push the following players: Yeet, MalcolmTucker, fireisredsir. And then there comes some other people like Save The Dragons (I think recent content is good + they seem consistent in logic when I questioned them on April), tenebrousluminary, DeasVail who I think are all relatively towny and

and... I dont wanna push today.

6. I think Datisi voting with me is still weird because they had reason to have doubt on my slot before they read into me, so why follow me on 2 votes?

There must be some hotkey I accidently press when I type and not try to send messages man.

[Cape90]

oh yeah and April is also I think likely town.

[Cape90]

I don't get the MalcolmTucker suspicion, I think they have well thought out posts

[Cape90]

Your greens are troublesome

I think that's a good thing, though, you don't expect Boonskiies to have the logical ones as green and go with the status quo, do you?

Why do you care about your greens being status quo vs not status quo so much? This feels too... tutorially? Um I cant think of words right now lol

[Cape90]

1) his hammer yesterday was not good, and then he kept explaining after the hammer, which looked like more effort than was actually needed. (His defense here is that he did not allegedly know he was hammering)

Weren't you just making the case that I "had" to try hard today or something just earlier today?

[Cape90]

Cape do you think scum are more likely to be at the top, middle or bottom of the PoE?

Probably middle. Although it mega depends on which POE you are talking about

[Cape90]

I liked the way they were posting around that one time they referenced me. Seems awkward if they were scum to do it the way they did, so it just seemed genuine townie to me.

It was mostly to see if there was a drive behind Save's unvote on you

[Cape90]

1) his hammer yesterday was not good, and then he kept explaining after the hammer, which looked like more effort than was actually needed. (His defense here is that he did not allegedly know he was hammering)

Weren't you just making the case that I "had" to try hard today or something just earlier today?

I'm not following whatever point you're trying to make here.

I don't remember if it was you or Yeet but I am pretty sure that one of you said something like "oh Cape HAS to try hard today if he is scum because of the hammer he made yesterday". Which I suppose isnt a wrong take

I guess

. But now according to you I... tried

too

hard. Should I have just tried less though? I had more free time this day 2

[Cape90]

6. I think Datisi voting with me is still weird because they had reason to have doubt on my slot before they read into me, so why follow me on 2 votes?

(1) why are you acting as if making a vote with you on d2 is some sorta blood pact that means i am locktown on you and may never vote someone else until you do?

(2) and what are those reasons for me to have doubt on you? i don't remember scumreading you for your d1 play, so.

(1) I guess good point. Sometimes I do this sort of blood pact thing with my votes, but

(2)

Datisi, what do you think of cape?

was townie early then fell off

eod play was obviously not great but that's a very shallow answer

i will provide a fuller answer in the next 36-48 business hours, really need my vla this week >_>

[Cape90]

blood pacts do sound pretty scummy...

I guess it does.

I want to bring attention to

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... otter-Mash

this mash. I was town here. Now I will just kinda give an explanation of things that happened in terms of this whole pact thing or whatever.

-So I townread this guy Macdougall (we were both town). Like 2 days in a row, Mac proposes that we CFD onto 2 people, really close to the end of each day. I follow both of these quickly and kill 2 mafia. I only did this because I trusted the person that was proposing the counterwagon so much.
-So this other person Chelsea, she was mafia this game, had an early suspicion on my slot day 1 and voted me.
-Fast forward to day 2, I am voting someone, and Chelsea hops on this vote with me.
-I notice this and question Chelsea on why they are on a vote with me and if they still suspect me.
-She told me that she still suspected me for the same reasons they suspected me day 1 (at this point she never swapped ship to me or whatever).

Tying that back into this, I questioned Datisi this game, because their play of going on some votes with me today reminded me of exactly what Chelsea did in that mash and it gave me bad vibes.

[Cape90]

3600 was a joke

I knew that, but for some reason, it just kinda made my gears turn lmao

[Cape90]

This game is incredibly boring..

What makes it boring? How do you propose we spice it up?

[Cape90]

Boon is prob town and scum are sheeping him on Malcolm.

Who is boon?

Also Malcolm is town stop.

Looking at Deas' recent content, I think Deas Vail is town

[Cape90]

Lol this guy says he isn't arguing I'm scum. Very unsure!

didn't say that lol. obv i was arguing you were scum before. but i wasn't convinced, i never am

So you always argue people are scum up to e-2 that you're unsure about? How unsure were you?

what kind of a question is this lmao? yes??? that's how mafia works?? everyone is always unsure

Mafia run from committing.

Town are unafraid at the moment of limming

if this is true then why was my hammer scummy in the first place. Gottem LOL.

IDK dude I still think Malcolm is obvtown and this counterwagon is bad.

I am starting to think scum are outside of VP/Malcolm like scum is like Nero or something

[Cape90]

I think that team would be excellent because only VP is under suspicion.

I think maybe I win as scum a lot because I play scum differently?

I legit have no idea what you are talking about

[Cape90]

I am starting to think scum are outside of VP/Malcolm like scum is like Nero or something

Do you have something to say to me?

You have been trusting of my slot this whole time and felt of pocketing me when I felt like it was unwarranted

[Cape90]

I would look at Datisi and fua closer

I mean... you are Datisi.

Your slot was suspicious of the fua slot (which is now Enchant). They claimed some sort of vigilante day 1.

[Cape90]

VOTE: Scorpius

Meh, slot has not been towny still and people got off this, meanwhile when VP towned up more people went on them.

[Cape90]

Scorp is town. Please stop getting distracted. We have at least one in VP/Malcolm.

no and why

[Cape90]

tene what do you think about the flash vote on Scorpius and there being the fact there are still viable wagons on both Malcolm and VP Baltar?

[Cape90]

If you think we are partners, why are you getting off my much bigger wagon?

i think it's a possibility. and cause i think april has cool ideas and im a big fan of the sudden unexpected wagon to see if it throws scum off their balance

This is fake as fuck

It genuinely might be the worst theory of the game so far and I've rated most of Fire's posts. You might be mafia. I know I'm not, but feck it, I get why it's sensible to apply some pressure. The idea we're mafia together is genuinely just incoherent.

though I don't like this post now that I am looking t.t

[Cape90]

But I genuinely need to know what the case against me is to be able to do so. I don't think you can compare me with VP. The current wagon against me has sort of materialised out of nowhere and doesn't feel particularly strong or logic-based. The main person behind it is April. April basically admitted they "shoot their shot" too early. What does this mean? It feels like mafia admitting they built a case on someone they had no evidence on, but they kept pursuing it anyway.

Literally this part would imply that April is mafia here like 10 times out of 10 no?

[Cape90]

Cape, the scorpious argument is basically that he is intentionally coasting at this point, right?

I cannot tell what Scorpius is doing in the first place.

A lot of their content is literally just... bleh

This game is incredibly boring..

They post this and it is like, well, you could make it exciting now couldn't you? And of course they don't. They just kinda keep doing what they do.

You and I both know

someone made a comment back in 1997 about the game solve is so easy and one of us us scum an it isn't me..

So it HAS to be you,no?

that this logic is incredibly silly. Scorpius literally is not considering the fact that I could be mafia or something, it's strange, it's like they took my words as like a parity cop check or something.
And of course all this behavior is riddled with apologetic posts that are pretty much "I am sorry, it's been a busy week, I have been trying to catch up"

There is no mechanical reason to think one of us HAS to be scum if that's what you think.

nah just being a smartass really, but today looks light in the office..

I'll start with those suggestions.

UNVOTE:

Quote got a little messed up so I put you VP in Red.

But anyway, Scoripus' response which is the uncolored reads to me as a little uncomfy

Going on nothing but instinct. VP seems town,Yeet no so much. Are you using me as an excuse to get “content” on the board? I have to consider that. But nowhere near scum vibe.

Then Scorpius calls you town VP without much needed elaboration besides I guess instinct. Oh and in the same post they ask who they should vote for? Asking for input on who to vote I hardly see in players who have played mafia for longer then I have, just saying.

And then they vote Nero... which is definitely a hot take, but it's for flooding the thread making Nero "impossible" to read? By this logic VP is mafia, however, Scorpius literally said VP was just lightly towny based on instinct... which would not make that high poster unreadable, so the suspicion falls apart under any line of scrutiny.

Also wasn't Scorpius just asking for input on who they should vote? I feel like if they were curious on that, they would likely go a popular wagon or something and not Nero so.

[Cape90]

I believe virtually all of my posts on the last three pages address what I think about that. Are you reading them?

No I am literally asking you a specific question about the

current

gamestate

The wagons on both Malcolm and VP are literally still there, in fact VP still leads in that department

[Cape90]

VP I wanted to ask what you think of MalcolmTucker

[Cape90]

Ok, my general thought on the Malcom case after review: I think April is presenting a view of the game that makes some sense, but is largely dependent on a tene!town read. What I did like is that I'm seeing logical consistency from April as to why she is pushing it (also helps explain her Frogster town read), and if correct there is good potential to shift the dynamics of the game in a clearer scumhunting direction.

It's definitely not a slam dunk case, and parts of it are reaching over semantics ("actual evidence") than I probably would do. April, of course, is already admitting it isn't a slam dunk.

I may be willing to support April here given I do think the upside is significant. My hesitation is that I do think fire is much more likely to be scum, and his bail off of me at E-2 and onto Malcom is weird if you think of them as S-S.

You -- I'm saying let's worry about whether Malcolm is scum or not before we go assuming we know who his partners are if so.

Eh, maybe if Malcom is a strong scum read for me that logic applies, but if my leading scum read right now doesn't fit with Malcom scum, that's a negative point.

eh never mind, I am just not seeing things

[Cape90]

@Everyone voting VP please help me see what you see as scummy in his play.
@tene: Please help me see why Scorpious is so town to you.
@Anyone not voting or vanity voting: Whassup?

Why is Malcolm disclosed here?

[Cape90]

Malcolm why are you just sitting on your vanity wagon with 2.5 days to deadline but not pushing me?

probably because he is town.

Profound idea I had there

[Cape90]

tene's suspicion on people on scorp doesn't make sense either, i don't see why scum would try so hard to get a nothingburger slot limmed over one of the two wagons people posting

I think this line of thinking only works if both VP and Malcolm are mafia (as far as tene's suspicion on scorp.

I am glad someone is on the same page as me, and I would not have expected that person to be Save the Dragons

[Cape90]

Malcolm why are you just sitting on your vanity wagon with 2.5 days to deadline but not pushing me?

probably because he is town.

Profound idea I had there

?

Oh

I thought you were referring to 2 different people in 4277 and not just yourself twice. Which is kinda odd like, wouldn't voting a vanity wagon that is you

be

a push on you?

Not sure I like Malcolm's unvote on you right after that to be fair with you

[Cape90]

Going through the hood, wrt 3610, it's not like Baltar is scum reading Nero in there, but Nero is scum reading him. At least Baltar hasn't said he's scumreading, because it does look like he is, but it seems to me it just as easily could be a case of town trying to give a generous reading of what Nero is posting.

VP was blatantly scumreading Nero day 1, but swapped focus to me today when I hammered the vote on GeneralWu yesterday. Who which was going to be distracting everyone anyways if left alive that day 1, which was also highly unlikely

[Cape90]

I would like maybe maybe consider switching to fire last minute but I just don’t think it’s practical

And I still don’t think Malcolm less scummy than fire yet

if you think this, then literally why?

[Cape90]

flash wagon on galron when

Honestly, I have been thinking at the back of my mind this

[Cape90]

I want to see the wagons tighten up.

VOTE: Malcom

Galron with the wolfiest pop in imaginable like

and then they dip

[Cape90]

Yeet's progression on Cape is also strange. Cape came under some initial pressure for their hammer vote but this was never really sustained. I personally think they're town but I'm not sure there's any reason for players who found the hammer vote incredibly scummy to be convinced with a couple of good posts from a player who's notably quite strong. It feels telegraphed to an extent, as if they realised Cape would be a hard target to nail.

I actually felt the opposite about that progression.

4335 makes me wanna yeet Enchant...

[Cape90]

VP and Galron scum team

If that's the scumteam, then me and Nero literally have 2 mafia neighbors

I honestly find it less and less likely tbh thinking about it

[Cape90]

VOTE: Galron

For the wolfy pop in

For sparta!

[Cape90]

front half of this wagon is good, back half is shifty, but this seems more likely to hit scum than Malcom flip.

Front half? I am town now?

[Cape90]

Galron vote gives Tucker the go ahead vote

I really am still not sure that 2 scum are in Galron/VP

[Cape90]

I’m going to stick with VP as long as it looks viable but will make sure I’m around to vote elsewhere if needed

I dunno about you but I don't go on wagons because they are "viable"

[Cape90]

I’m going to stick with VP as long as it looks viable but will make sure I’m around to vote elsewhere if needed

I dunno about you but I don't go on wagons because they are "viable"

At this stage of the fat, if my vote is not going to get someone eliminated, what’s the point of it?

we have legit a day left. not 1 hour

[Cape90]

This is so frustrating

yeah, we're doing what we can.

My current theory is:

Malcolm, Cape, Nero, then one of Fire/DV/STD

I really don't get how this theory works

[Cape90]

Just trust me Math Galron is town

Instead of being like

trust me

this is so frustrating

could you just like... explain why Galron isn't mafia?

Dude is literally kinda just has been a nonpresence so far

[Cape90]

Cape's gone down on my list a lot, for what it's worth. The Galron hop kinda put it over the edge further.

I sure do wish Galron did literally anything to change my mind

[Cape90]

I want to see the wagons tighten up.

VOTE: Malcom

Like April, they literally popped in and voted Malcolm then headed for the hills. It's like, what is the point of playing if you are literally just going to do this?

VP looks like town to me
Nero looks like town to me

Where does all that leave me? Well, with Galron who is playing like the most obvious demotivated scum on the planet.

[Cape90]

Not only was I told in the hood that you were conftown,

you also plopped a vote on me for lurking. That's about right for a townMath

.

sigh

VP probably defended Galron for this in the bolded and not the first part

[Cape90]

Oh Yeet is probably making obvtown moves right now. Your on the naughty list Save The Dragons for shading Yeet

[Cape90]

Oh Yeet is probably making obvtown moves right now. Your on the naughty list Save The Dragons for shading Yeet

That’s not obvTown moves Cape

It’s desperation and NAI

Why would scum be desperate unless both Galron/Yeet are w/w? I don't think Yeet has been acting like it tbh.

Besides all this Yeet has literally been the towniest unconfimred town anyways, like hands down, no contest

[Cape90]

also if so, shouldn't we just be voting Galron over Yeet in that scenario I just presented? If Yeet is trying the inverse WIFOM bomb of Yeet is trying to hyperbus Malcolm, I dunno what to think about that, that's a little too big brain

[Cape90]

Oh Yeet is probably making obvtown moves right now. Your on the naughty list Save The Dragons for shading Yeet

Oh Yeet is probably making obvtown moves right now. Your on the naughty list Save The Dragons for shading Yeet

are you reading the same game i'm reading

Yeah Cape you're seeing something I'm not, can you explain quickly?

I can explain at whatever pace I want to because day doesn't end for a good like 7 hours.

Though I guess this is coming from the guy who lolhammered day 1 so... fine

Yeet pushed me at the start of day 2 right? They got off me because they were thinking that me & VP were TvT which I suppose is a reasonable thought, I mean VP wasn't towning until later, but okay.

Then their insistence that Galron must be town is a little confusing given their trajectory on skitter as a whole, but it's so weird that it's like really towny

[Cape90]

Skitter seems a bit underwhelming in general this game when I've heard as town she is basically a master scum crusher. I also give a little bit of weight to fire's "ping" tell. I also saw people voting there which makes it an appealing vote.

And I honestly haven't read through that much at all and I think that's one of the things I need to look at first, thanks for the reminder.

I read this and question heavily why Galron is literally in a lock town territory. IDK what could have possibly changed and Yeet isn't explaining anything

[Cape90]

what is the opposite of a slam dunk

swing and a miss?

[Cape90]

maybe airball?

[Cape90]

i would say your towncase of yeet is the opposite of a slam dunk

Yeah tbh. I said that, then actually checked their logs and was like... eh.

I think if Yeet is scum VP is town

[Cape90]

Skitter seems a bit underwhelming in general this game when I've heard as town she is basically a master scum crusher. I also give a little bit of weight to fire's "ping" tell. I also saw people voting there which makes it an appealing vote.

And I honestly haven't read through that much at all and I think that's one of the things I need to look at first, thanks for the reminder.

I read this and question heavily why Galron is literally in a lock town territory. IDK what could have possibly changed and Yeet isn't explaining anything

@fire THERE IS NO INNO

TOWN WITH AN INNO DOESN’T POST THIS

what are you talking about?

[Cape90]

Skitter seems a bit underwhelming in general this game when I've heard as town she is basically a master scum crusher. I also give a little bit of weight to fire's "ping" tell. I also saw people voting there which makes it an appealing vote.

And I honestly haven't read through that much at all and I think that's one of the things I need to look at first, thanks for the reminder.

I read this and question heavily why Galron is literally in a lock town territory. IDK what could have possibly changed and Yeet isn't explaining anything

@fire THERE IS NO INNO

TOWN WITH AN INNO DOESN’T POST THIS

what are you talking about?

Fire thought Yeet had an inno

I told them no and am trying to get them to revote Galron.

you know I quoted that from like 2000 posts ago right?

[Cape90]

@all

If Malcolm flips town, who is the scum in the hood (if any?)

If Malcolm flips scum, who is the scum in the hood (if any?)

There's a hood? Who is in it?

It's me/Nero Cain/VP Baltar/Galron

We think there is a scum in the hood judging by there being masons, one of which was

humaneatingmonkey

the other being MathBlade, who is confirmed town based off the monkey flip

[Cape90]

VOTE: VP

If Math and Nero switch back that gets VP up to e-2 I think. Scum!VP flip for D2 is definitely still on the table, and I think it implies town!fire going forward because of VP's attempts to pocket fire in 4700, 4705 and 4709.

Kill this with fire when I'm dead

no

[Cape90]

This just sounds like Math pride denying possible innos. I'm on and off in court all day but I'll check in when I can.

VOTE: Malcom

I think it's a mixture of that and them having the mason slot, and scum has just been able to play around Math which naturally warps the perspective of conf town. Nobody there to challenge them in that sense.

is Math literally not confirmed?

[Cape90]

Yeet probably knew that Galron could not kill, I now realize that since he was defending Galron so much

[Cape90]

Can we talk Eyes for a sec?

So Eyes in 3750 they "are willing to give Malcolm a try" and they will unvote if they don't want them. Okay? In a list they gave PRIOR to voting Malcolm (3372), Eyes puts Malcolm as almost town.

Eyes was not pushing Malcolm earlier, they were pushing April... until 3740.

The most logical progression from voting April according to 3372 for Eyes to do is not to go to Malcolm, but to go to their... actual scum leans? Like tene and Frog right?

Malcom actually saw this in 3762 and Eyes' answer to this is

really

weak 4013, just being like, "well I moved you to unsure because I merged the almost town into my nulls" which sounds like "haha I must go consensus instead of actually pushing who I feel are mafia" to me .

Eyes never unvotes Malcolm from here even though there was a good amount of time between this and the end of the day.

VOTE: Eyes without a face

Boy I sure prefer this then killing April of all people

[Cape90]

How many normals have 3rd parties?

Asking because this is my first normal game here after all. Also because Nero seems to be discussing traitor (I have reservations with the Nero slot)

[Cape90]

Ok, so I spent a lot of time overnight reviewing the Galron wagon, the counter push onto me, and Malcom's elimination yesterday. I have shared this case with my hood already. Nero has called it garbage.

Given that both my wagon and Malcom's wagon were two town being pushed, I think the chaos of the Galron wagon and Yeet soft are highly likely to have thrown scum into a bit of confusion when they had a comfortable position of two town being run up.

I'm still thinking this through, so bear with me if this gets a little long winded. I'll put a tl;dr at the end.

The big takeaway here is that I think the scum team is probably Nero/Frogster/Dragons/????

---

Phase 1: Galron wagon into Yeet soft

So this all starts around 4433 when fire off hand suggests a "flash wagon" on glaron. Math picks this up and runs with it 4440. This arises when Galron comes in and drops a vote on Malcom with little explanation, tipping the weight of the day toward Malcom. I would call these reasonable responses to Galron's vote.

We then get a series of votes from Cape, fire, tenebros and Enchant. 4442444444464447

I then join the Galron wagon because I wasn't super satisfied with the malcom wagon. 4457

Meanwhile, Nero is calling galron scum, but not willing to join the wagon for some reason. 44534455[pos]4456[/post]4462

Yeet starts his soft in 4470 by saying "absolutely not on Galron." Nero pushes back. I pick up on the soft at the top of page 180, when Yeet says again he is "*staunchly opposed*" to Galron. 4475 The weirdness of the language was a dead giveaway that Yeet had some kind of info pointing to Galron town. We can see now from the NK that I was right.

I unvote in 4478, and we firmly enter Phase 2 of this wagon, which I'll call the scramble.

----

Phase 2: The scramble

There is a lot of Yeet and myself trying to guide people gently away from the Galron wagon at this point without being anymore explicit than Yeet already has been.

Unfortunately, Math doesn't know what is going on and starts promoting a wild ass theory that Galron and me are scum together. 4499 This is key because the scum had been wanting me dead yesterday and this gives them the cover of a mason to come back at me. From my perspective, scum completely bungle this next part, however.

question I have during this time:

fire, can you tell me which post specifically you figured out that Yeet was softing?

Back to my main thoughts: DV comes in post 4525 to pump up Math. I'm very suspicious of people doing this at this time because I don't believe the scum team had picked up on the soft yet, and Math's theory is potentially pushing a new town lim, leaving Malcom/VP for a tasty D3 dueling town wagon again. It's a dream scum scenario.

Nero starts to fight with Yeet a little bit. I perceive this as Nero getting annoyed at the galron interference coming from yeet that Nero!scum doesn't quite understand yet. 452945314532

Nero says he'd like to vote Galron over Malcom, even though Nero has supported Malom wagon a bit in the past. 4550 Weirdly in this post, he says he wants to see where Frogster, DV, Titus, and dragons put their votes. DV has already said he's not leaving me. Titus also voted me. That leaves Nero signaling Frogster and Dragons.

Nero votes galron in 4588, even though he doesn't really give much reason and in his next post, 4599, he says "there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out."

We get a bunch of April arguing against the Galron lim, and Math pushing his very bad theory, and then this is where the day truly gets interesting because Frogster returns.

In post 4623 Frog says he thinks "Galron is most likely to flip scum" out of the counterwagons to me. He hedges a bit saying Galron is a frequent miselim target, but clearly frog is expressing support for Math's point of view here. Again, I don't think scum have picked up on Yeet's softs yet, but the softs are becoming increasingly urgent at this point.

Dragons then appears in 4626 with a mostly naked vote, stating "this is better than Malcom". Yeet rightfully calls this out as scummy.

Fire starts to consider the softs in 4638 and unvotes.

THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS TO SLIP AWAY AS AN EASY DAY FOR SCUM

Frogster quotes Dragons' vote on Galron and says it is better than a malcom lim. 4640 Then he pumps up Math's dumb take again that VP and Yeet are the scum team trying to save Galron.

Nero says in 4642 that even if Gal is town, it's no big deal if they are limmed.

Frogster in 4645 again pumps up math and says that "VP Galron Yeet (April)" is a good solve.

(This point is key in a bit)

Yeet says in 4651 that he is willing to put his slot on the line that Galron is town. I confirmed overnight in the hood that this is the post that tips Nero off that Yeet is softing.

Cape calls yeet town, and dragons shades that in 4655. Frogster backs up dragons's shade in 4662. I believe this is scum trying to pull back the galron lim from the brink by looking for a final couple votes they can sway to power galron from E-2 to a lim.

This is their fatal error.

Nero is the first person to publicly out Yeet's soft in 4665. I pressed him on this overnight and he did not have any explanation on the protown motivation for doing this. He said basically it was obvious scum probably knew...which isn't an answer to make it a point of public discussion. This is most likely a rolefishing attempt.

Math says he doesn't believe Yeet has an actual innocent in 4668, which probably gives scum some hope that they can still get this done with Math for cover.

Nero comes in again at 4670 to call Gal scummy even though he knows about the Yeet soft. Frogster also reinforces this with 4672, but then frogster votes me in 4674.

Dragons tries to discredit Cape's townread of Yeet again in 4687. Math, being big brain, also joins in this discredit of yeet in 4689. Cape maybe shows some signs of uncertainty in 4691, and I think this is another fundamental point where the scum misread the table, thinking they still have a shot at galron.

Frogster now votes galron to E-1 in 4699. Two things worth pointing out in this post: Frogster says he is voting Galron because my wagon is not going to happen. And, he once again reinforces' Math's worldview that I must be scum with Galron.

It's also worth noting here that if my read is correct on Nero/Frog/Dragons, Frogster's vote onto Galron would put the three of them back-to-back-to-back on that wagon. A town flip of Galron is a potential death sentence to three out of four scum members who kind of have shitty votes onto the wagon.

Frog joins in on the effort to sway Cape away from a townread on Yeet in 4708. They need a hammer here bad. This is where we get into phase 3

----

Phase 3: Damage control

It's my firm belief that these three realized they got in too deep here. I was actively bringing fire around to understanding Yeet is probably town here who has good reason to believe Galron is town. Fire has been a main person aligned with Nero/frog/tenebros against me. This is extremely bad for scum if I'm starting to have better dialogue with fire.

At the same time, Cape is not turning on Yeet. The number of people left to actually hammer Galron at this point is like...Titus. And she is not super keyed into the game yet/thinks Math is pretty far off base.

Dragons unvotes Galron in 4711 "just for a sec."

Titus then comes in 4714 and votes Malcom, which is essentially a death sentence for the Galron wagon.

Frogster next unvotes Galron in 4728. Keep in mind, frogster said he voted Galron in the first place because my wagon was no longer viable and because he didn't want to lim Malcom. Well, why unvote then? Nothing has fundamentally changed about my wagon at this point. It is not anymore viable than it was when he voted. There is only something like 20 minutes that pass between these votes.

The only thing that has changed is that the galron!town miselim ship has sailed because of Titus' vote.

Nero comes in right after in 4729 to say "yeet doesn't have an inno on gal." Another stupid miscalculation, probably meant to sway cape or Titus, but it's a misread of the game state. Scum are flailing here and unsure what to do.

Frogster calls galron "limbait" in post 4740...but who is using him as limbait? He boosted Math's idea just earlier that galron and VP were scum together, with Yeet and April as possible accomplices. This is

MINUTES AGO.

It makes no sense, unless you look at this as a failed push on galron that has gone very wrong.

Frogster in 4758 is making a case that my posts indicate Galron town...which does not make any sense. Read the posts he links. Also, I was calling Galron probably town based on Yeet. What is frogster even trying to say here? I don't know what kind of moon logic frogster is using, other than to try to make it look like there is an actual case against me now that the Galron push has shit the bed.

Then we get the usual crowd of Tene and Nero chiming in that I'm obviously the best lim for the day. 47604771

Dragons naked votes me in this cluster fuck as well. 4766

Frog votes me again in 4770 even though he was already voting me. Was this to make it seem like more votes were coming my way than actually were? I cannot truly believe he wouldn't remember voting me just a few posts prior. This is theater.

----------------

TL;DR

- Nero/dragons/Frogster all tried to use Math as cover to power through a Galron wagon yesterday, but misread the game state by missing Yeet's soft and by thinking they could still power the miselim through even after the soft was outted. I questioned Nero about his play around the soft overnight and he did not have logical explanations for his play and was continuing to state it is clearly because the scum team is VP-Yeet-Galron-????

Frogster should be the lim priority because even if you want to say I'm reaching by claiming these three are scum buddies, there are a lot of inconsistencies in Frogster's positions around Galron that don't make any sense with what he is saying his positions are over a very short period of time.

VOTE: Frogster

So VP wrote all this at night right?

How does Nero respond to this?

"VP, there is no way that you are town" (paraphrased)

Without any further elaboration on Nero's end.

This sets off alarm bells to me, and I likely think this is due to time, but I ask Nero why, have not received a response on that.

From Nero's end, i found this extremely wolfy

[Cape90]

wait also cape obv must have realized before the flip bc vp was talking about it in the hood

???

But devils advocate

this is what gets me about VP as mafia are more aware of stuff like PR softs as they are actively looking for them. I thought that Yeet was probably just a villager who just thought they were right thing going, but it was pointed out to me by VP that Yeet was softing a PR that potentially knew that Galron was not mafia.

But my baggage with Nero is heavier as I feel like villy could easily pick up on such a thing as well so.

I thought VP looked significantly worse after the Malcolm flip, like when I was saying that I thought Malcolm had good posts, Yeet was quick to just be like "yeah but they are still mafia"

[Cape90]

The Card Czar shuffles all of the answers and shares each card combination with the group. For full effect, the Card Czar should usually re-read the Black Card before presenting each answer. The Card Czar then picks a favorite, and whoever played that answer keeps the Black Card as one Awesome Point. After the round, a new player becomes the Card Czar and everyone draws back up to ten White Cards.

---

Official Votecount 2.9

VP Baltar (6): Scorpious, tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, MathBlade, DeasVail

[E-3]

MalcolmTucker (4): April Ludgate, Eyes without a face, Yeet, fireisredsir
tenebrousluminary (1): MalcolmTucker
Enchant (1): skitter30
skitter30 (1): Enchant
Cape90 (1): Datisi
April Ludgate (1): Save the Dragons
fireisredsir (1): VP Baltar

Not Voting (1): Cape90

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

I also just want to point out that Malcolm was pushing tene around the time that Eyes was voting Malcolm.

You know, Malcolm pushing a supposed scumlean on Eyes' list of reads

[Cape90]

If the assassin is revealed, the game ends immediately with a loss for the team who identified him.

---

Official Votecount 2.7

VP Baltar (5): Scorpious, tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, fireisredsir

[E-4]

tenebrousluminary (3): MalcolmTucker, Save The Dragons, MathBlade
Frogsterking (2): Yeet, VP Baltar
MalcolmTucker (1): April Ludgate
Enchant (1): skitter30
skitter30 (1): Enchant
Datisi (1): Cape90
Cape90 (1): Datisi

Not Voting (2): Eyes without a face, DeasVail

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

around here, the wagon was even somewhat viable so...

[Cape90]

What Cape has written leans me town there.

Can I get some specifics? What town pings for you?

Page 4 of the hood. He lays out who he's reading as scum and then throws Yeet into reconsideration, while he was parked on me, which makes me think he was scum reading me and then Yeet by association. That's why I asked if the Yeet flip changed anything for him.

If you asked me that, sorry I missed it.

But the Yeet flip makes me not want to go you (I think this is likely obvious given how Yeet played yesterday around your slot)

That's why today if you read back I talk about not liking Eyes/Nero

[Cape90]

he is saying that voting in the hood is correct play today. i don't think he said anywhere that there were 3 scum in the hood. he thinks there's 2

I would believe there is just 1 but idk.

Also, IDK about you, but I have never heard of someone being a traitor and a neighbor but I suppose it's possible I guess.

I think it could be 1 + traitor but that only incentivizes not solving Galron yet.

[Cape90]

VP has accused me of being scum in the main thread at least twice. First, he was pushing a Nero/Wu team and then he was saying that scum in the hood was me or skitter.

He's sorta backed off now and is just calling me a VI.

VP is this true like at all?

[Cape90]

I am at like 80-95% sure he’s scum.

Galron legit thought he was dead.

My comment doesn't prove anything but I just wanted to say it because he said it in our hood night 3 and I thought it was funny

[Cape90]

I feel like VP is making it hard for townies to use the gamethread to make progress on the rest of the scumteam. I'm assuming there's a scum on the VP wagon D2 and I want to bring up the possibility that it's Dease.

I feel like Frogster is making a scummy comment and Cape should reconsider on them

[Cape90]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I mean if we really want to solve within the hood

[Cape90]

What was the protown motivation for making Yeet's role a point of public discussion?

I had none but I'm not informed like you and didn't know if his role was real although he was being pretty open about it so I think claiming that I brought undue attention to it is a stretch.

whats the protown motivation of sitting on a wagon that you thought was going to flip town?

VP hasn't commented on this, so that means I should flip ship onto VP right Nero?

[Cape90]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I mean if we really want to solve within the hood

Why?

They are much more likely scum then VP IMO.

Check 4925

[Cape90]

also all the scummy people are on VP so why would I want to touch that today?

[Cape90]

Except for Eyes, but I bet they will hop on it if VP is in fact town

[Cape90]

We can decapitate Scoprious.

Not opposed.

nor Am I. Hopefully the big brains can take something out of pushing a VT..

Dude we should have like 4ish mafia left and we have got 0 dead

[Cape90]

whats the protown motivation of sitting on a wagon that you thought was going to flip town?

I know my role PM is green. I did not know Malcom's. I also gained info about where April is pushing.

I already answered this question over night in the hood and I believe once in the thread. Why do you keep asking it other than to repeat the same talking points you've already been dismantled on?

never mind lemme check

[Cape90]

Spoiler:

In this example there are two kos, which mean the black group cannot die. If white takes one ko to atari the group, black takes the other. Ultimately the black group is alive and can eventually capture white at the top. However white taking either ko is a big ko threat if any other kos break out.

---

Official Votecount 3.6

VP Baltar (6): Nero Cain, fireisredsir, MathBlade, tenebrousluminary, Enchant, Save The Dragons

[E-2]

Nero Cain (2): Titus, VP Baltar
Enchant (1): Scorpious
Eyes without a face (1): Cape90

Not Voting (5): Frogsterking, DeasVail, Galron, Eyes without a face, April Ludgate

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2022-03-25 22:15:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

If the bent four is in the corner it actually ends up being a ko if the opponent plays there first and there aren't too many outside liberties.. In theory it's possible to keep this ko going until there is nothing big enough to respond to, so in this situation the corne is considered dead

---

Official Votecount 2.8

VP Baltar (6): Scorpious, tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, fireisredsir, MathBlade

[E-3]

tenebrousluminary (2): MalcolmTucker, Save The Dragons
Frogsterking (1): VP Baltar
MalcolmTucker (1): April Ludgate
Enchant (1): skitter30
skitter30 (1): Enchant
fireisredsir (1): Yeet
Cape90 (1): Datisi

Not Voting (3): DeasVail, Eyes without a face, Cape90

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

After and before

What does this tell you Titus?

I see this and I see a lack of titus in the second VC. Kinda strange

[Cape90]

Titus should be very low on your scum reads when I flip town. Like, what is her motivation here?

Yeah, you give me pause on Titus, who I thought could be scum from me reading last night. Kinda don't see them as mafia now

[Cape90]

Frogsterking - A few questions to me. Otherwise, no real contribution.
Scorpious - Random vote on Cake and wanting to die.
Save The Dragons - Sheep and leave.
DeasVail - FoS and then VLA
Eyes without a face - Prodded said nothing
April Ludgate - Included to be fair. No real push.
Cape90 - Barely here, but he arguably could be excluded.

A good bulk of your scum are in here.

UNVOTE:

I’m Sheeping Titus..

This is my lim pool

I... AM THERE

Why did you get off me?

[Cape90]

VOTE: Nero

you sure about that lim pool?

[Cape90]

VP's "leadership" has netted us nothing but dead town.

I mean, come on, this is literally just scum logic

feels like Nero said this quite a bit now

[Cape90]

Scorpious - town

Scorpius is literally the biggest question mark right now, how are they town, their plays make very little sense tbh

[Cape90]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

Someone who's good at the economy help me budget this

Well you saying I'm scum with frog seems incorrect. See, I'm helping

I don't think this is a said all be all worldview as it has like, only like 3 mafia there

[Cape90]

scum logic? its an objective fact.

I mean yes, I've repeated it a few times but I think there's a decent chunk of scum motivation if you are continuously on town wagons.

Know who else loves saying that to discredit people

mafia

[Cape90]

I still prefer getting rid of VP
Sorp is a decent compromise
Malcolm is the least fav of the 3

Everyone not voting one of those 3 is scum or useless.

VP being hesitant to vote Malcolm or Scorp is pretty bad looking.

Nero, I feel like you hardly talked about Malcolm, but this stuck out to me since Malcolm flipped town

[Cape90]

Scorpious - town

Scorpius is literally the biggest question mark right now, how are they town, their plays make very little sense tbh

but he's voting who you think is scum, it's like you are gearing up for my town flip or something.

I don't have better ideas at the moment though not sure the Frogster thing looks appetizing, I wanted to look at that before I make that call though