Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[VP Baltar]

Who is Dease?

DEASE NUTS!!!!!

damnit...

I needed this laugh

[VP Baltar]

We can decapitate Scoprious.

Not opposed.

nor Am I. Hopefully the big brains can take something out of pushing a VT..

Can you just try a little bit harder if you're town. You kind of keep saying you're going to and then just don't really do anything

[VP Baltar]

And 1 of them is you..

Nice concerned townie post

VOTE: Cape

This ain't it

[VP Baltar]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

[VP Baltar]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

You do have more reasons, but few of them are meaningful beyond strange paranoia and gut. You're lending legitimacy to Nero's marketing campaign, so it definitely is sheeping.

And I'm gonna need more from you than reassessment. This game needs strong town leaders and Titus is going to be about it after I'm dead. You have potential, but you need to think more critically. There is no way you should be limming me over Nero today if you want to solve thus 1v1. So if that is going to be the level of play, I need you to step it up.

[VP Baltar]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

You do have more reasons, but few of them are meaningful beyond strange paranoia and gut. You're lending legitimacy to Nero's marketing campaign, so it definitely is sheeping.

And I'm gonna need more from you than reassessment. This game needs strong town leaders and Titus is going to be about it after I'm dead. You have potential, but you need to think more critically. There is no way you should be limming me over Nero today if you want to solve thus 1v1. So if that is going to be the level of play, I need you to step it up.

Uhm definitionally doesn’t solving one solve the other in a 1v1?

I'm a much higher value asset to town. If you're going to take a chance by repeating this bad wagon AGAIN today, which is very much what you're doing, you risk less by limming Nero first. When you're wrong and I flip green, you've burned someone who actually has the ability to see through the nonsense happening, and would have essentially been confirmed town with a Nero scum flip. I'm very confident my theory about D2 is close, if not correct.

[VP Baltar]

Frogster, I think you missed this question.

VP I thought Galron had a good chance of going through EoD yesterday up until the hammer, I think I took Yeet's softs less seriously than other townies (I didn't take Yeet's softs seriously at all.)

No, I thought Galron was town not scum at the time I unvoted them D2. I think Galron has a tendency to be limbait in general, in this case I'd say VP is the main player trying to make use of it on D2.

This makes no sense. You are stating:

1) yeet was lying about an innocent on galron, or so you perceived until today.

2) galron was town.

These facts are in direct conflict with each other. Why would yeet fake a clear on galron, if galron was town about to be eliminated?

[VP Baltar]

VP's PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
April Ludgate
Cape90

Scum are almost all here:

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

DeasVail
Enchant
tenebrousluminary
Scorpious

@titus, I don't think much has changed about this reads list. Bottom pile is the null to scummy folks, and I'd guess there is max 1 scum in there. I probably wouldn't lim in that pile until later if I didn't have to. Either some of those folks will rise to the occassion and start separating themselves as more townie, night actions will help (possibly unlikely unless we have another weak investigative), or y'all kill the scum RB and Enchant really is a vig who can clear out some detritus.

Only other caveat I'd say is if Nero doesn't flip scum somehow after I'm gone, I still think Cape is town and Math is right about galron. Statistically, I think that's unlikely and you should trust the yeet clear until flips say otherwise.

Outside dark horse is April with that weird claim start of day, but probably town who felt like shit after the malcom lim and decided overnight that mercy is the only option. Good luck this game, you're going to need it.

[VP Baltar]

Dude if you’re town you really need to check yourself imo. Reading some of your posts in recent pages, you’re just putting people down and not empowering or building up town members which is what good townplay is.

I've spent, what, 100+ pages of this game now trying to work with people, only to be met with scum reads based on absolutely nothing substantial? Several of the people who I wanted to play with this game replaced out unfortunately. Math is very hard for me to deal with because of the way he tunnels. Nero is actively trying to do things to annoy me. The people on my wagon are all just answering for each other and reinforcing each others' biases. I spent literally hours over the night phase trying to figure out what was actually going on, only for people to say 'meh, you just scum.' If you think I have no right to be annoyed with that, cool. Trust me when I say I'm biting my tongue a lot if you think this is me being harsh with people.

[VP Baltar]

first 100% town driven wagon.

what you mean is you are getting your way, and your way is right because you're a mason.

Fine. I can't find any other ways to tell you that logic is not thoughtful, and you're incorrect. I'm out of ideas truly. When I'm dead, follow my town bloc and lim some scum for a change.

[VP Baltar]

Re: the above reads list, I feel like you should have enough content from myself and tene at the very least to have some kind of read there, yet you seem to blame us for not having worked enough. I don’t know how active tene has been this game day, but in my case it feels a bit like opportunistically exploiting my lower activity this game day, as I feel I have been quite actively involved prior to this day.

What should I be townreading you on based on your low activity? I'm literally asking you to show me you're town so I can add you to my town pile, but you've been lazy camped on me (in spirit) for a second day in a row now. Did you even read what I wrote about Frogster? Did you even consider that the Yeet flip backs up my reads on the game being correct? Are you scumhunting anyone besides me?

How am I supposed to read town out of that?

[VP Baltar]

If you’re town then that almost certainly means Nero and maaaaybe Cape.

I don't think there are two scum in the hood. You should let that go when you see my flip.

You could still be right about galron, I just don't think the odds are on it.

Look, I'm not mad at you if you need to flip me. I'm slightly frustrated because it's an ego sting to be limmed, and because I think I've put as much or more effort into this game than about anyone. I feel like half this game is gaslighting me, but all I ask is people use my flip to make much better decisions going forward.

Work with Titus. She is likely town here.

[VP Baltar]

If you’re town then that almost certainly means Nero and maaaaybe Cape.

I don't think there are two scum in the hood. You should let that go when you see my flip.

You could still be right about galron, I just don't think the odds are on it.

Look, I'm not mad at you if you need to flip me. I'm slightly frustrated because it's an ego sting to be limmed, and because I think I've put as much or more effort into this game than about anyone. I feel like half this game is gaslighting me, but all I ask is people use my flip to make much better decisions going forward.

Work with Titus. She is likely town here.

How do you explain D1 if Titus is town?

can you be more specific?

[VP Baltar]

If you’re town then that almost certainly means Nero and maaaaybe Cape.

I don't think there are two scum in the hood. You should let that go when you see my flip.

You could still be right about galron, I just don't think the odds are on it.

Look, I'm not mad at you if you need to flip me. I'm slightly frustrated because it's an ego sting to be limmed, and because I think I've put as much or more effort into this game than about anyone. I feel like half this game is gaslighting me, but all I ask is people use my flip to make much better decisions going forward.

Work with Titus. She is likely town here.

How do you explain D1 if Titus is town?

can you be more specific?

Almost every wagon (if not every wagon I don’t have my notes) that ever got above 3 people would be on town if Titus is town. That’s not an opinion either
Wu, Datisi, HEM, and myself were the only ones with serious wagons D1. Titus is Datisi.

well if my reads are right, that makes complete sense. So yeah.

[VP Baltar]

If VP is town, scum are either doing nothing and laughing as we chase our tails, or playing embarrassingly large circles around us.

no, Nero is not doing nothing.

[VP Baltar]

I did not bring it up as I have antagonized VP enough this game, but whether one finds it good or not, i have done plenty and it should be more than possible to commit to a read on me. Or at least, to not say any uncertainty is because i have not done enough.

The bulk of what you have said the last two game days is about me, and your read of me is entirely wrong. The fact I don't have you in my scum pile should say a lot to you, but you're too tunneled to even think about that.

[VP Baltar]

ok VP if you're town help me out here

you say that if you flip town then i should work with titus and follow your theory. but i don't trust titus and don't think your theory is accurate. so. if im right on that, then you've left me with nothing useful. if you're town, help me out by considering what your reads would be if instead your theory is wrong and if titus is maf

answer this pls VP, i genuinely really really want to know what you think on this if you're town. i might need your flip in order to trust it but there's no downside to you. guaranteed i will carefully consider anything you say here so the more you analyze the better

if you're maf you can feel free to ignore it lol

Dude, why do you think you're more correct than me when I've been wagoned for 100 pages?

Titus should be very low on your scum reads when I flip town. Like, what is her motivation here? You think she is trying to score town points on my flip? You got to stop tinfoiling.

THAT BEING SAID, if you want me to entertain it, you need to figure out who is pushing me and potentially could be with Titus. Presumably they would be distancing today I guess since my flip is going to lead to blowback for the scum pushing me. Nero is a possibility here, I suppose. Tene and April are maybe possibilities in that world too. Just don't run with this as your lead theory tomorrow because it is not a good one.

[VP Baltar]

Also, my analysis is already out there. Yall are making this more complicated than it is.

[VP Baltar]

people's read quality usually goes down when they're wagoned

I mean, I don't disagree, but I've also had weeks now to think about who is doing what around me. I'm not sure why you think I'm so bad at this game lol.

[VP Baltar]

The biggest thing is don't let the people who want me dead just walk away like nothing happened. The biggest benefit here, why I said I would have been an ok kill yesterday, was that scum have had to commit massive resources to getting me killed. I'm loud and I don't die easy, so my wagons are not pure.

You and math are getting taken for a ride, and that's what is frustrating here. But I just need to let it go because that's not in my control.

[VP Baltar]

The biggest thing is don't let the people who want me dead just walk away like nothing happened. The biggest benefit here, why I said I would have been an ok kill yesterday, was that scum have had to commit massive resources to getting me killed. I'm loud and I don't die easy, so my wagons are not pure.

You and math are getting taken for a ride, and that's what is frustrating here. But I just need to let it go because that's not in my control.

@ fire

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure why you think I'm so bad at this game lol.

i don't. that's why i think it's more likely that you're just maf

So you think I'm bad if I'm town here? I hope upon my flip you reconsider that I am probably just closer to right, and to not wagon people over personality

[VP Baltar]

Notice how Nero dips out of thread when people are doing his dirty work for him?

[VP Baltar]

Notice how Nero dips out of thread when people are doing his dirty work for him?

This isn’t a marathon

Never said it was

[VP Baltar]

So you think I'm bad if I'm town here? I hope upon my flip you reconsider that I am probably just closer to right, and to not wagon people over personality

not that you're a bad player but that you haven't played to the standard i expected. i don't think you're right. close to right, maybe? could possibly be nero, but i think cape is more likely, and it could be frog.

im not wagoning anyone over personality

Why are you defending Nero all game? It does not make any sense. Your read does not make sense on his play. He has not done anything remotely town this game.

[VP Baltar]

Frogster, I think you missed this question.

VP I thought Galron had a good chance of going through EoD yesterday up until the hammer, I think I took Yeet's softs less seriously than other townies (I didn't take Yeet's softs seriously at all.)

No, I thought Galron was town not scum at the time I unvoted them D2. I think Galron has a tendency to be limbait in general, in this case I'd say VP is the main player trying to make use of it on D2.

This makes no sense. You are stating:

1) yeet was lying about an innocent on galron, or so you perceived until today.

2) galron was town.

These facts are in direct conflict with each other. Why would yeet fake a clear on galron, if galron was town about to be eliminated?

[VP Baltar]

this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me

See math. He was around

[VP Baltar]

this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me

???? I'm leaning town on you. How can you say that I'm attacking you here. That's not consistent with what's happening.

Also, who am I hard defending? VP? You think that I go to this length to defend a dead man walking when the best response is to shut up dead buddies?

Yes you’ve been hard defending VP all day

Titus is correct on the play though. There is no planet where Titus and I are buddies. You could claim she is scum trying to score points on my flip, but that would require admission I'm not scum.

[VP Baltar]

he reads like town who was thinking independently, found a read, and is confident in his read and that reads like town nero to me. scum nero i think would be have a different approach, with more appealing to others, going with the flow, ok to lim a scummy looking town like wu rather than getting paranoid about it and pushing back on the people sheeping him. i also think he's right that you're maf so i have no reason to suspect him. if you flipped town i would be more sus of him, but the other reasons im leaning more town still apply

This is terrible reasoning. Jfc

[VP Baltar]

this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me

???? I'm leaning town on you. How can you say that I'm attacking you here. That's not consistent with what's happening.

Also, who am I hard defending? VP? You think that I go to this length to defend a dead man walking when the best response is to shut up dead buddies?

Yes you’ve been hard defending VP all day

Titus is correct on the play though. There is no planet where Titus and I are buddies. You could claim she is scum trying to score points on my flip, but that would require admission I'm not scum.

You only harms self with these statements.

I'm dead anyway. Town continues to shit the bed this game. I'm beyond caring because caring just makes me annoyed. I'm just speaking the direct truth to people so they stop with the terrible play tomorrow. Try not to shoot any conftown players tonight!

[VP Baltar]

Math lives to endgame, Titus dies tonight or tomorrow. That's my prediction.

I'm putting all my faith in scorpious to win this game for town lol

[VP Baltar]

VP's "leadership" has netted us nothing but dead town.

time to stop bitching and start a revolution

Enjoy your lim tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

Math lives to endgame, Titus dies tonight or tomorrow. That's my prediction.

I'm putting all my faith in scorpious to win this game for town lol

What a random person to suggest could carry us. ???

It was a joke/not joke. The amount of people with poor rationale this game is truly disheartening.

At least scorpious Yolo vibe means he will probably never eat a NK, and his random votes are at least more accurate than the rest of the folks here.

[VP Baltar]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

Someone who's good at the economy help me budget this

Well you saying I'm scum with frog seems incorrect. See, I'm helping

[VP Baltar]

I didn't consider fakeclaiming to be AI from them.

What?

[VP Baltar]

I perceived softs to be coming in from both yeet and luminary

What????

[VP Baltar]

Frog, why would yeet make a YOLO fake claim to save a town wagon from lim if he was scum, which was your stated mindset at the time. You wanted to kill yeet, iirc.

[VP Baltar]

I feel it's wrong to want the day over with but I kinda do. I don't see a way VP is saved, he doesn't want to be here, he's given final reads and I don't see what else we learn. Fighting for fighting's sake only hurts us.

I agree with this. I'd rather this is over sooner than later. This game stopped being fun for me quite awhile ago, and it is just repeating the same terrible arguments and biases at this point.

That being said, I'd rather you don't vote me Titus because that is just one more slot scum don't have to commit to. Frogster for example. I'd rather they have to put their necks out there.

[VP Baltar]

nero what are the chances we can pull off a switch to titus

and if so can we ever trust VP again

also 100% chance VP says no to this idea as either alignment

Dawg, just stop.

[VP Baltar]

WHAT DEATH OF VP-TOWN GIVES EXPECT SATISFACTION TO ALLOW THAT.
It literally gives nothing, no one will care about your reads, even if they promise.

Literally, it's mafia, it's aleays will be full of shitfights, if you couldn't punch your opponents in submission every game day, why even bother saving townreads.

With aim like these everyone can just "Nvm shit game" and selfvote.


Stop me please

I wish I could even pretend to understand what this is saying. Shoot Nero tonight when I flip green. Save everyone the headache

[VP Baltar]

titus prob just TMIing, and yet still pushing for vp to get limmed

can we just get this instead

No. Look, I'm not doing this bullshit everyday for seven game days. Yall chose to get rolled by Nero. Finish the job, learn from your mistakes and play better

[VP Baltar]

titus is pushing for a vp flip over a Nero one despite the wagons being close at 5-4, probably bc both are town and she knows a vp flip will make her look better than a Nero one

In what world are both Nero and I town? Highly unlikely

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: frogster

Will do this all day. Don't care.

[VP Baltar]

titus is pushing for a vp flip over a Nero one despite the wagons being close at 5-4, probably bc both are town and she knows a vp flip will make her look better than a Nero one

In what world are both Nero and I town? Highly unlikely

the one where titus is maf and nero agrees with me that she is, and she positions herself to look good on your flip but only if you're town

Put down the crack pipe.

[VP Baltar]

Titus, you keep calling VP town but I don't think you've ever explained why.

You gotta be kidding me

[VP Baltar]

VP asked me to answer his questions repeatedly then ducked out when I actually did.

Your answers make no sense. My point is already proved.

You hopped on the galron wagon to push it to e-1 yesterday, stating you did so because my wagon was not viable.

At the same time, you say you were townreading galron, and that your scum read of yeet (town) was faking a clear on galron to save him because he is yolo.

At that point, just 20 mins after you say my wagon is not viable, you come up with an incredibly forced reason to call galron town and return to voting me.

Pardon me if I find this incredibly unbelievable

[VP Baltar]

k well vp is either maf or so deep in the pocket that he might as well be. gee i wonder why titus wants to keep him alive

VOTE: vp

Yeah, you definitely aren't the wrong one here.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: unvote

I have to work Saturday and I don’t want a quick elim and I want to have fun with something other than mafia for a few hours before it all goes to crap because my dysphoria is like level 11. My opinions haven’t changed just don’t want a quick hammer

I'd prefer if you just vote me back. I don't want to keep playing this game.

[VP Baltar]

THE ENTIRE PHASE 3 OF YOUR NARRATIVE IS INCREDIBLY UNBELIEVABLE. YOU ASK QUESTIONS TO FIT A NONSENSICAL NARRATIVE AND THEREFORE YOU GET ANSWERS THAT MAKE NO SENSE. I ANSWER YOUR STUPID QUESTIONS HONESTLY AND YOU SAY MY ANSWERS ARE STUPID BECAUSE I'M TOWN.

Why aren't you voting me? Now is your chance.

[VP Baltar]

Cape, vote frogster

[VP Baltar]

vP AAPEALING TO CAPE = CAPE TOWN

Yes, cape is town. This is established.

[VP Baltar]

scum logic? its an objective fact.

I mean yes, I've repeated it a few times but I think there's a decent chunk of scum motivation if you are continuously on town wagons.

How do I know Nero is scum? He is not this much of a basic b if he's town.

[VP Baltar]

ok then flip town

You think I'm trying to stop it?

[VP Baltar]

there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out.

Remember when Nero said this right after he voted galron.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: frogster

Will do this all day. Don't care.

Going with a person that you said that you would consider after you read my case on Eyes eh?

I'm going to be the lim today. I just think frog is full of shit. Eyes could be scum avoiding my wagon. Ur still my boo

[VP Baltar]

there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out.

Remember when Nero said this right after he voted galron.

yes and?

I'll let folks figure it out

[VP Baltar]

ok then flip town

You think I'm trying to stop it?

You seem to be getting more and more negative. I can't tell if you're town runnng out of fight or what.

Why is Scorpious so high in your reads?

You mean why is he in the null pool?

[VP Baltar]

Well tbh I think Frogsterking is right that I'm probably not actually playing outside of my scumrange.

Didn't you just give me shit because you think there is no way I should have you in my null pile?

[VP Baltar]

but wouldn't he self if he was srs about not wanting to play?

I don't self vote. Maybe you should try to get me modkilled again.

[VP Baltar]

Cause that's a very town move.

[VP Baltar]

I don’t like Boon is just gone.

Agree with this actually. Seems atypical

[VP Baltar]

Btw I think exactly 3

Can I ask who you think those three are if I'm town? I feel like so much of your gameview is dependent on me flipping scum, and that's just not going to happen. So let's get to a point where you are thinking beyond that after you see me flip today.

[VP Baltar]

The three I think are involves you scum.

Right, but im telling you that you're 100% wrong. So like, let's work on next steps here

[VP Baltar]

How many bad guys do you think there are?

Me? Or math?

[VP Baltar]

How many bad guys do you think there are?

Me? Or math?

Both. I'm thinking about what to do next.

Looking at what has been revealed so far about town power, and if you assume Enchant is a town vig being RBed, then 4. More than that would seem OP for scum is my guess.

[VP Baltar]

How many bad guys do you think there are?

Me? Or math?

Both. I'm thinking about what to do next.

Looking at what has been revealed so far about town power, and if you assume Enchant is a town vig being RBed, then 4. More than that would seem OP for scum is my guess.

We have masons, an investigative and a vig. I'm leaning 5 because in most setup runs conftown would quickly outnumber scum. I'm wanting to check my work.

Yeah, but there is also the hood, which has been poisoned fruit imo. A vig is not necessarily +town either unless someone is using it correctly.

[VP Baltar]

There's no way you legit think there are 5 scum. At least VP is trying to look uninformed.

What do you think is the scum motivation? What is the point of this shade?

[VP Baltar]

I know the traitor talk was popular earlier. So like would 4+1 be OP? I have rarely played with traitors, so I don't really know how they affect a setup balance.

[VP Baltar]

For trying to look uninformed? LAMIST

Meh, that seems like a stretch.

[VP Baltar]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88949

this game had 3 scum and a traitor. So this game is going to be exactly 4 team scum or 3 team scum + traitor.

Titus' 5 scum in a 19 player is incredibly fake.

There were also 3 vig in that game. That's going to be incredibly swingy. I don't think it's crazy to ask the question. I don't know how that question gets us closer to finding scum today either though. So seems pretty NAI to me.

[VP Baltar]

Nero, when I flip town, who is scum in the hood to you?

[VP Baltar]

cape

Why cape over galron?

[VP Baltar]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88192 was 3 in 15

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87720 4 in 16

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87368 4 in 17

This doesn't prove 4 here though? Average scum balance is probably like 25%. 5 in 19 is like 27%.

Not saying that's what I think it is, but it's not an absurd consideration either.

[VP Baltar]

ive been assuming 4 so if it's 5 or 4+1 then that is uhhhh not good

One thought I've had is that if there is a traitor type role in the hood and it is uninformed, it might help explain the difficulty of getting solid scum reads in the hood.

[VP Baltar]

Disagree with my VP and Galron reads fine

But there’s no way in a 19 P game
Scum have 2 masons with unseen communication
4 players with unseen communication
And a cop
And a vig

That’s a never passing review.

So scum has to be in that hood.

Would depend on scum power, but I do think 1 scum in the hood is likely. 2 seems OP for scum imo in terms of game control.

[VP Baltar]

VP i don't get why you decided cape is town

I think he reconsidered on me at a time when he could have easily just pushed me as scum.

Weren't you in the people who shouted me down when I was scum reading his wu hammer?

[VP Baltar]

he's done nothing but push town (Fua possibly notwithstanding)

Again with the misrep unless you magically know alignments of: frog, fire, cape, STD, etc.

You can talk shit all day because you haven't actually joined any wagons. It's such a scum play. Town players are always going to be wrong early game, and personally, I would rather put my votes on wagons that I think are going to advance the game than I am to have it nowhere and snipe at people. That's shit I'd do as scum.

[VP Baltar]

I am kinda wondering if Titus is scum and buddying (or scum with) VP and she knows how many scum there are and that’s a scum slip from Tene and Tene thinks Galron is traitor

Help stuck in paranoia loop.

Math, I will actually help you if you want to work with me. You're getting rolled by Nero though.

[VP Baltar]

Nero’s the least likely scum in the hood

Ok, convince me of that. Why?

[VP Baltar]

Preferably with an explanation of why Nero is playing the game he is that is doing nothing

[VP Baltar]

Nero’s the least likely scum in the hood

Ok, convince me of that. Why?

He thinks you’re scum and is pushing you?

I mean I don’t know how you TR people so I don’t know how to convince you

Especially since I don’t even know if you will be convinced.

I am pretty sure it’s a 1v1 and you’re more likely scum than Nero

Ok, right. See that from my perspective in where I'm town, and you can see how I think he is not actually doing anything this game.

Who else is he truly pushing? What has he shown progression on in his thoughts toward the game? What utility has he provided to town?

And it doesn't matter how I TR people. I'm asking you to explain your perspective to me and I will approach it with as open of a mind as possible. Keep in mind that I did try to maintain a town view of Nero for a LONG time, despite his play toward me.

The issue I have hit is that the galron clear is more likely to be true than not, and cape looks more town than Nero. That's difficult for me to see past, so I'd like your perspective on his play (not setup mech).

[VP Baltar]

Cape, can we get a full readslist from you?

[VP Baltar]

Nero’s the least likely scum in the hood

Ok, convince me of that. Why?

He thinks you’re scum and is pushing you?

I mean I don’t know how you TR people so I don’t know how to convince you

Especially since I don’t even know if you will be convinced.

I am pretty sure it’s a 1v1 and you’re more likely scum than Nero

Ok, right. See that from my perspective in where I'm town, and you can see how I think he is not actually doing anything this game.

Who else is he truly pushing? What has he shown progression on in his thoughts toward the game? What utility has he provided to town?

And it doesn't matter how I TR people. I'm asking you to explain your perspective to me and I will approach it with as open of a mind as possible. Keep in mind that I did try to maintain a town view of Nero for a LONG time, despite his play toward me.

The issue I have hit is that the galron clear is more likely to be true than not, and cape looks more town than Nero. That's difficult for me to see past, so I'd like your perspective on his play (not setup mech).

Fire, you're welcome to address this as well. I'm really trying my best here despite being burned many times this game.

[VP Baltar]

he's done nothing but push town (Fua possibly notwithstanding)

Again with the misrep unless you magically know alignments of: frog, fire, cape, STD, etc.

You can talk shit all day because you haven't actually joined any wagons. It's such a scum play. Town players are always going to be wrong early game, and personally, I would rather put my votes on wagons that I think are going to advance the game than I am to have it nowhere and snipe at people. That's shit I'd do as scum.

it's not a misrep b/c Wu and Malcolm ARE dead town. I'm also town. Both Math and HEM are town. I'm also not a fan of your downplaying how bad you've been. I mean, yes town will often be wrong. That's common sense. But it's not like players get a 2 day grace period. Scum are often flipped d1/d2 so its not like "town will always be wrong" You are giving yourself an out and its both wrong and scummy.

I haven't been shit with my votes b/c I was more than willing to run-up you or Gal yesterday. Gal didn't happen b/c of a light inno and you didn't happen b/c a buncha baddies got the Malcolm wagon to go over you instead. I didn't join Malcolm b/c I thought he was town and I don't think his flip advanced the game for town.

I'm voting you now. I'd be willing to vote Titus as well but I still think you should be voted out.

There are so many obvious issues with this, including your own pushes of wu and Malcom.

But here is a pretty notable problem: yeet and Math, two confirmed town, were also on both those wagons. People being wrong and backing wagons pragmatically, in the case of Math's hammer or my own vote on Malc, does not indicate scum. This is why I'm saying the narrative you are pushing is incredibly basic and incredibly scummy.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, right. See that from my perspective in where I'm town, and you can see how I think he is not actually doing anything this game.

Who else is he truly pushing? What has he shown progression on in his thoughts toward the game? What utility has he provided to town?

if nero thinks your maf then i think he is playing just like how i would expect town nero to. from what ive read, town nero tbh isn't very high utility to town except that he has p good reads sometimes. but he just kinda sits there and yells that his reads are maf. he's independent and doesn't really work with people, and he is very stubborn and hard to move. but maf nero does work with people, he compromises, he tries to appeal, and he takes the easy mislims when he can.

he also does have other reads, he thinks titus is maf (which is +++town nero btw), he's talked about his opinions on the progression of game state with malc, galron, april, titus, and others

Is this first hand meta you have or you're going on what???

I'll freely admit, I don't have Nero meta since I probably have one or two way old games with him somewhere.

As far as his read progressions, I think you're reaching quite a bit there. His opinion seems to adjust with what's popular, or what he sees as convenient to push the idea that I'm scum. That is the safe and central point he has not evolved past for about 150 pages now. That's stagnation in my book

[VP Baltar]

there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out.

Remember when Nero said this right after he voted galron.

[VP Baltar]

Nudging while risking nothing. Who is more likely to do this? Scum or town?

[VP Baltar]

But here is a pretty notable problem: yeet and Math, two confirmed town, were also on both those wagons.

this also feels like a cop-out. Just b/c there were some town that voted on Malcolm doesn't mean you have to be town.

The three players that you pushed at the begining of the day (and last night) were all ppl that were voting you. You only added eyes this morning b/c his wagon popped up.

The majority of scum were on the Malcolm wagon yesterday and you know it.

I think the scum were likely split between the wagons, but more inclined to think on me given I am louder and doing more solving.

And, yes, the point I raised is a fatal flaw in your argument because they are provable exceptions to the very bad logic you're using. This isn't a newbie game, so don't expect me to take it on your philosophy being "scum vote townies!" when I just showed you that's not the case universally

[VP Baltar]

*take it easy on your philosophy...

[VP Baltar]

@fire-pretty unlikely I am going to vote Titus. Where else is your head at that we can maybe talk about?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not going to convince scum that they are scum so I really don't care about your opinion but I mean you are basically using the same argument, that I should be flipped if you are town.

I've already explained why I think you are the most likely scum in the hood and it isn't based in "he's voting me" as much as the PoE points there.

[VP Baltar]

I guess let’s ask this:

Who doesn’t think VP/Nero is SVT or TVS?

This is a good question

[VP Baltar]

Me but their my scumpartners.

i see we have entered the "joke" about VP being my scumbuddy stage

Alright. Flip VP then. I need to be proven right in order for us to have a shot at winning.

I wish I could say I thought this would help you get some town cred tomorrow. I suspect this town will fight you regardless, even when you are right.

[VP Baltar]

Titus saying all the things I would say before them. Deas is a place I could probably compromise on that list Fire. Though we will have to wait until monday. I think you're sleeping on frogster, but it is what it is.

[VP Baltar]

I am doing what is the highest odds AND where every player in the game but you agrees

Why are you torpedoing town agreement?

Tbf, I think people are just saying hood has 1 scum because that is the MOST LIKELY scenario, not because they are certain. As enchant points out, there are certainly exceptions, and we have no clue what is in scum to balance (such as a role that finds daytalk or something. )

I think Titus is using what feels most solid to her and you are using what feels most solid to you.

The primary drivers of my own scum read on Nero would he based on a number of setup assumptions that may or may not be true. Those assumptions are even mote complicated for people outside the hood.

[VP Baltar]

1) i think it's really risky to not flip in the hood today.

Why unvote me then? You're so confusing.

[VP Baltar]

Did people claim in the hood? This seems to imply that. I don't want to know the roles if they did.

Haha no way.

I just mean people in the hood also have the discussion that has happened in there to judge things on, and who looks scummy in those talks

[VP Baltar]

Townlean:
Scorpius

Just realized this in your list. Earlier you were fairly hard town on scorpious. Did your read of him go down?

[VP Baltar]

@fire - I just want you to realize that Frogster's only pushes this game have been Fua/Enchant, Yeet, Galron, and me.

Not only is this a very small number of people for frogster to push (last town game with him, he went after almost everyone in the game at some point), but there is a nonzero chance these people are all town. Like, if you're buying that argument from Nero about me, Frogster looks worse.

[VP Baltar]

@fire - I just want you to realize that Frogster's only pushes this game have been Fua/Enchant, Yeet, Galron, and me.

Not only is this a very small number of people for frogster to push (last town game with him, he went after almost everyone in the game at some point), but there is a nonzero chance these people are all town. Like, if you're buying that argument from Nero about me, Frogster looks worse.

yea i know. the two sudden wagons on him this game tho both look kinda sus to me. but he could still be scum

There were two wagons on him?

[VP Baltar]

3183, 5605. both were like immediate 3 votes. both involved you and the datisi/titus slot following you, interestingly. i had forgotten who the 3rd vote was in the first one, but it was yeet ig, so less sus

Ok, so very small wagons. I think your main deal is the titusiti slot, but I feel like the suspicion there is due a lot to scum!vp. There is a world where she and I are both town

[VP Baltar]

Why do you not vote Nero or Cape in this world and continue to look for anything else?

I was voting Nero earlier. We are kind of in a holding pattern waiting for some people to participate more. I don't think me encouraging a wagon on my top scumread is detrimental in the least

[VP Baltar]

If you’re sure scum is in one of two players why look elsewhere?

You're the most certain on this, so it probably makes the most sense to you. Based on play alone, I think frogster is more scummy still.

I also don't think it gives people an out to not talk about the hood. Multiple things can be topics of discussion, and you certainly have the hood covered.

[VP Baltar]

Scorpious, while I like feeling like someone would vote scum, I'd like to know your actual stances rather than just sheeping me. It's rather creepy. Why do you feel I'm such strong town AND accurate?

I’m just so lost. Sorry for being creepy.

I probably should have just replaced out but I feel bad doing that because it’s nobody’s fault but my own that I just totally lost touch with this game.. Even when I try reading there is just soooooo much. I thought a new day would help but. It was mash on the gas the second the flag dropped again.. it’s embarrassing a little. But I’ll use your question as something to focus on. Might help

I would say just start playing and ask questions if you think there are things you missed. Contributing something is better than nothing.

[VP Baltar]

I have lost engagement too because every time I try to do something someone else tries to go “but I wanna look at this thing” that is more than likely town

Frog is not town, telling you now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nero

I don't really want to argue with you because that's pointless. There you go.

[VP Baltar]

Cape, who is actually in the fucking hood, understands.

might be scum indicative of cape, tbh

Sure. If Nero and me are both town, then it is probably cape

[VP Baltar]

I don't think I'll vote Nero before VPB.

That's a bummer because you're incorrect, and you're also shooting the town in the foot if you're ditching me. If you do believe it is cape, I'd argue to kill Nero because he's pretty useless regardless. His reads are terrible, and he ups the noise to signal ratio significantly.

[VP Baltar]

Having an incorrect read is not the same as a terrible read.

correct. His reads are confirm biased and poorly reasoned.

[VP Baltar]

Having an incorrect read is not the same as a terrible read.

correct. His reads are confirm biased and poorly reasoned.

What are your bulletpoint reasonings for FrogsterScum?

- He voted camped Yeet D1 forever until I started pushing him. This is very unusual to me because I just finished a game with Frogster where he was wild ass voting everyone in the game as town with tinfoil theories. Here, he is timid and afraid to move his vote around.
- The only pushes he has made all game have bene Fua/Enchant, Yeet, Galron and myself. I know I'm town. I know Yeet is town. I think it's highly likely Galron is town. Those are the safe bets, too. Not looking good.
- His reasoning around the Galron wagon yesterday does not hold up to scrutiny. (There is a fairly in depth analysis of this in my big post opening the day, and follow up questioning of Frogster today).

[VP Baltar]

Titus
Fire

Nero
Scorpious
Enchant
STD

Eyes without a face
DeasVail
Galron
_____

tenebrousluminary

Cape

Frogsterking
VP Baltar

the placement of your STD and galron reads do not make sense.

Nor does this wild ass Frogster/VP buddy theory, but fine by me if you want to put a frogster vote down.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB - Can you do this for your Cape read too?

My main reasons for thinking cape!town are:

- His "case" on me from D2 was so stream of consciousness and poorly formed, I have a hard time seeing scum type that up and being like "yes, this is persuasive!"
- He flipped to town reading me D2 at a point when pushing me would have been a much easier scum play and probably helped secure my lim. He similarly was not sold on Galron at E-2 to E-1 range. Again, I don't see much advantage to this as scum beyond a vague effort toward town points. (though if all three wagons at that point were town, maybe that's a good time to score town points?)
- He didn't really pump up the Nero/VP fight in the hood since early game, and has questioned us both pretty fairly I would say.


I don't think this is a slam dunk town case, but like I said before, PoE points much more to Nero here than Cape. I could be wrong, but Nero's arguments with me all game have been so bad faith it is truly difficult to see him as town. Clearing him on amorphous meta reads ain't really gonna do it for me.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB - what doesnt make sense about Galron, he's basically right in the middle.

Odds of the psychologist result N1 getting a false negative on a scum are pretty low. It is far more likely Yeet had an accurate result on Galron.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB - Can you do this for your Cape read too?

My main reasons for thinking cape!town are:

- His "case" on me from D2 was so stream of consciousness and poorly formed, I have a hard time seeing scum type that up and being like "yes, this is persuasive!"
- He flipped to town reading me D2 at a point when pushing me would have been a much easier scum play and probably helped secure my lim. He similarly was not sold on Galron at E-2 to E-1 range. Again, I don't see much advantage to this as scum beyond a vague effort toward town points. (though if all three wagons at that point were town, maybe that's a good time to score town points?)
- He didn't really pump up the Nero/VP fight in the hood since early game, and has questioned us both pretty fairly I would say.


I don't think this is a slam dunk town case, but like I said before, PoE points much more to Nero here than Cape. I could be wrong, but Nero's arguments with me all game have been so bad faith it is truly difficult to see him as town. Clearing him on amorphous meta reads ain't really gonna do it for me.

Why is Nero scum and not incorrect town with a tunnel?

-He is not taking any risks or seeing really any progression in his reads. His entire universe of scum reads inevitably depend on me flipping scum, which is simply not accurate.
-He is running a game of political advertisement instead of scumhunting. Repeatedly stating "VP was on 2 town wagons, ergo scum!" is like Road to Rome play, and I'm pretty sure even you would acknowledge Nero ain't that clueless.
-He at times expressed support for both the Wu and Malcolm wagons, but wasn't willing to put his vote on them, and then has repeatedly said all the scum are clearly on those wagons.
- He outted the neighborhood for no discernable reason, other than presumably to be LAMIST
- He outted yeet's role as a point of discussion yesterday for what he admits is no protown reason.
- He has been actively trying to pocket Math and reinforcing bad gamestate reads and theories he concocts.

[VP Baltar]

I need to better understand what happened with Yeet-Galron. Anyone wanna post those for me?

This is also in my big post, around Phase 2.

Yeet was a psychologist who investigated Galron N1. He softed in thread, and then Math didn't get it repeatedly, so Nero outted it publicly. Then scum continued to push on Galron because he was close to a yeet, is my opinion.

Yeet dies over night, confirming what was happening yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

The Frog case is much stronger than the Nero one.

I'll look it over later/tomorrow, I guess. I got some work to do now, but this was a good session.

I agree. That is why I wanted to lim Frogster first.

[VP Baltar]

Even if I saw it I didn’t care and didn’t believe it.

It isn’t and wasn’t 100% clear and Galron is very much lurker scumming which he has no lurker town games

For someone who is named mathblade, you do not always trust the math.

[VP Baltar]

Cape/VPB seem like the right way to go today, and I agree with the VPB not escaping another day.

Takes my reads.
Says I should not live.
What a world.

[VP Baltar]

I'll admit I'm done being logical. There's pride, denial and acceptance. At first, I had a reasonable belief that I could communicate and possibly get wagons going on people who might be scum. Then, I began to be in denial about how powerless I was. Then I fought how powerless I was by demonstrating how bullshit this position is of only threatening people in the hood. Then I finally accepted that this game is in Enchant's hands and I'm just doing whatever.

I tried to warn you. It's not your fault though

[VP Baltar]

It's pretty incredible how impossible it is to elim VP this game, though.

I'm actually astonish math is tanking his own wagon. The town in this game is so fucked between math and Nero.

[VP Baltar]

What is the misery?

I think just lim me. It will at least be informative. Sideline Nero. Lim frogster tomorrow. Proceed from there.

[VP Baltar]

Math, vote me. I won't even hold it against you.

[VP Baltar]

What is the misery?

I think just lim me. It will at least be informative. Sideline Nero. Lim frogster tomorrow. Proceed from there.

Why were you against your elim midday but for it now?

What changed?

I think yall need to move past this fight. I don't think another miselim is good today, but my flip will at least show my reads are legit, and maybe you can trust Titus a bit after that. You can figure this out after that

[VP Baltar]

Jesus how many pedits was that?

Now you are truly in this game.

[VP Baltar]

His "case" on me from D2 was so stream of consciousness and poorly formed, I have a hard time seeing scum type that up and being like "yes, this is persuasive!"

dude you just said it was preplanned just day 2 ago

Yeah, then I read it again and admitted I was wrong that same day!

[VP Baltar]

Math, I don't get why you won't just kill me. You been telling me you want it for awhile now. I'm offering to stop fighting it, and you don't want it?

[VP Baltar]

TPRs are outted both D1 and D2 the odds are not bad and this game has a lot of confusing multi-sided situations and there is a flipped psychologist

Lol. Very relevant and town posting

[VP Baltar]

im ok with settling for vp and will switch back if needed but i think it's cape/titus

Vote me then. Let's get this done and stop talking about it

[VP Baltar]

i have no idea what frog is talking about for a lot of his posts. is that maf indicative? idk, maybe

He sure isn't scumhunting!

[VP Baltar]

Godammit. VOTE: Baltar

Now we are talking

[VP Baltar]

Whichever mini clique isn’t getting their way starts being negative

This is why my lim is good. It will stop the people who are incorrect from jamming up the game. The people who are more moderate then need to compromise with the people who are reading the game correctly.

[VP Baltar]

I also feel like Titus going with VP on a vote is strange given 4150, 4151, 4164, 4409, 4515, (then a very questionable Malcolm vote that comes out of almost nowhere, only thing I can find to back this up is... well 4515 the last post I linked) 4714, 4721 (just that? Literally Titus' sus just kinda fizzles out on VP), (now just shading Math for tunneling VP?) 5003, 5013 (... no not really?).

I am missing some piece of the jigsaw here aren't I?

Titus read overnight, that's her switch on me.

The difficulty with math feels mostly like Titus is getting frustrated trying to work with him and he is calling her scum or whatever.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar, you want me to vote whom?

You're fine. Kill me today. Kill frog tomorrow

[VP Baltar]

Tbf I was really only on the first. I was a conscientious objector on the second

Lol you're confirmed town. I already pointed out why Nero is wrong on this.

[VP Baltar]

Notice he leaves yeet off

[VP Baltar]

Enchant shoot me or eyes.

I don't think you should be shot.

Eyes is maybe acceptable. Nero is god tier vig shot.

[VP Baltar]

Can someone Unvote until we get a VC?

I'm at E-2 I think.

[VP Baltar]

I think frogster is putting out wild theories because I said he is outside of his tinfoil town meta.

[VP Baltar]

Are SKs even considered normal?

[VP Baltar]

This list is made by scum.

Can I get your full reads list? Maybe you gave one earlier and I missed it

[VP Baltar]

This list is made by scum.

Can I get your full reads list? Maybe you gave one earlier and I missed it

My read list would be a mishmash of sight reads of random posts with no context.

I am just reacting to what I read at this point. I wouldn’t insult this game with a “concrete” read list.
Personally I don’t like them. And mine would be just a desperate grasp to make content..

I think it would be helpful to know where your head is at. You're a black box this game. People want to trust you, but it is hard when it is impossible to know where you stand on anyone for sure

[VP Baltar]

Cape, you're not pocketing me are you?

[VP Baltar]

Do you try to pocket as scum?

[VP Baltar]

Do you try to pocket as scum?

I pocket you.

Yes, bb!

[VP Baltar]

Do you try to pocket as scum?

i was reading through a previous scum game of mine and came with the conclusion of

Sometimes

But that's a conscious decision of yours? Can you link the game and tell me who you tried to pocket in it?

[VP Baltar]

Do you try to pocket as scum?

i was reading through a previous scum game of mine and came with the conclusion of

Sometimes

But that's a conscious decision of yours? Can you link the game and tell me who you tried to pocket in it?

Okay, the only good frame of reference I have is a mash, so apologies.

In both of these games I am

Boston

(you can ISO that in the multi ISO tab, and just checking 1 person as in me Boston)

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Mish-Mash

around day 4 we broke into smaller groups so this is also part of the game and relevant.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... k-of-Spain

I would say, sorta pocketed Sagunto.

I don't spend a lot of time pocketing tbh

Thanks. Definitely hard to pick up on the pocketing there with Sargunto.

I will say, I find you as scum in that game to be much more deferential and apologetic to people.

Fam, I just really don't think cape is scum here.

[VP Baltar]

I'm ready to move on. I don't feel confident but I want this game to move towards being over because I am not having fun. Can we kill VP yet, or do we need to post 40 more pages of nothing?

This game would be more fun if everyone didn't just dig their heels in about stuff. I'm willing to let myself go to end that, but folks (including you) need to seriously re-evaluate on my flip green.

[VP Baltar]

maybe it's best we put this to bed

It probably is best to get some resolution in the hood today. It is necessary for the gamestate to progress. The difficulty you will have tomorrow is I'm not flipping scum.

[VP Baltar]

I thought of a detail that you missed about the game you played with me which could have lead to a TvT.

Go on

[VP Baltar]

I also need to work out where/how/why VP went from pushing fire as scum to trying to townblock with fire.

Feel like you have played with me enough to know this is how I roll as town.

I often find heated exchanges with people helps me determine a person's alignment. I definitely act on genuine scum reads at any moment, but if I stress tests a person's approach to the game and they look townie out of it, that makes me feel much better about an alignment I was unsure about prior to that.

[VP Baltar]

while unknown!VP successfully pushes down Wu, Malcolm and tries to push down Galron. Eventually town!Froggy says
"Hey fuck this VP character this guy makes stuff up about me and wagons town" leading to a TvT deathtunnel.

This is not accurate though?

You were scum reading me before Malcom even flipped, and I was very far from pushing galron. My vote went there briefly as a potential avenue, but then I lobbied to save galron.

I'm not sure the sequence of events you're describing is wholly accurate there.

Now, to your bigger point about adaptation: ok, I can give you some benefit of the doubt that your playstyle is malleable so early in your career. I am curious if you think this us TvT, do you think scum have been pushing me this game? And who do you think is a likely scum candidate in the hood?

[VP Baltar]

I also need to work out where/how/why VP went from pushing fire as scum to trying to townblock with fire.

Feel like you have played with me enough to know this is how I roll as town.

I often find heated exchanges with people helps me determine a person's alignment. I definitely act on genuine scum reads at any moment, but if I stress tests a person's approach to the game and they look townie out of it, that makes me feel much better about an alignment I was unsure about prior to that.

I think I have played with you once?

Also this post would imply you were acting much more confident in your fire scumread than you actually were?

I thought we had a couple games in recent years? But I have a terrible memory for that stuff so I could be wrong.

And yes, I will certainly do some pushes with more gusto than I have certainty because getting reactions out of folks doesn't work as well if it doesn't feel like real pressure to the person I'm poking. Most times in mafia, I'm pretty wrong early game, so test and evaluate works well for me to sharpen reads.

[VP Baltar]

All the stuff about telling me I’m being played by fire and that I’m in his pocket and acting aghast at comments that your reasoning on fire seemed exaggerated…
Well that all would have been a bit excessive, no?

Not really. You were definitely sheeping fire without thinking and you two were kind of coming in to answer for each other as I was asking questions. First, that doesn't really help me engage directly with fire if you're running interference, and second, I can open up multiple battlefronts at the same time without much issue. Poking you at the same time I'm going at it with fire isn't much a losing proposition to me other than it might draw me some heat, which I don't tend to care that much about.

[VP Baltar]

Apparently there is something I don't understand about serial killers on this website though because Cape and Titus now have both said the killer would need to be "townside" here and I don't understand what that means.

What they are saying is that the SK needs to support the town early game and eliminate mafia. Winning as a SK is extremely difficult because you basically need to survive the whole game, so if you are an SK, the mafia probably suspect you exist and you need to eliminate them as fast as possible.

That's what they mean by townside.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not 100% certain how you got so convinced of this SK idea. We have no evidence at this point truly. If there is one, it's probably enchant, but they would get killed soon by a suspecting maf anyhow.

@Titus - if you were picking who we lim today based solely on your scum reads, who do you want gone?

[VP Baltar]

not sure why you suspect me, Fire

the gamestate doesn't really make sense to me if vp is maf so im considering other possibilities

but idk if any of those possibilities really make any more sense

Was it you or Math who said Nero-Titus-April-???

I still have a hard time seeing Titus, but maybe if the fourth was one of the people consistently pushing me this game, I can maybe squint and see that....

[VP Baltar]

I still feel my VPB/Frog case has weight.

This is not a good look for you, ngl

[VP Baltar]

I think VPB has played a strong scum game, but yeah, I do believe VPB is likely scum here.

What's your bullet case here? Especially since you were defending me yesterday and I repaid the favor backing your preferred lim.

[VP Baltar]

The way that VPB/Frog cases against each other feel very strong, like they are only seeing those type of details because they know that the other is scum, if that makes sense.

Also, sum up the frog case on me please.

[VP Baltar]

Math will certainly instavote in elo.

You think math actually lives to elo?

[VP Baltar]

he just kind of pushes more focus onto "i was just sheeping april".

I never said this or even implied it. I backed you sure, but I never tried to blame you for that wagon. That's false.

[VP Baltar]

Math will certainly instavote in elo.

You think math actually lives to elo?

Better question is why you all think tomorrow is elo.

I dont?

[VP Baltar]

Remind me to look into VPB - Fire possibilities.

Fire's play around VP is very bold if they're scum together. I think scum-Fire would think there is too much risk of their play looking like attempts to save scum-VP.

Que? Fire is saving me?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar

Yeah, VPB-Frogster-Enchant-Tene is my solve.

I have a hard time seeing how April actually believes this is the solve.

[VP Baltar]

if im wrong on one, it's probably tene.

Tene and I have been fighting almost all game, with tene being incredibly obstinate to any worldview that doesn't have me as scum.

Frog was under no suspicion until I pushed and pushed him.

Enchant is a nothing burger slot.

This doesn't seen like a solve April comes up with if they are trying at all.

[VP Baltar]

And it's not, that's the thing. If VP is town, then that's okay. I'm happy to wear that, and I really just think that the game would be better off for VP's elimination regardless. But also, I think he is scum and could talk about my thought process in having come to that conclusion, but it's the sort of convoluted thought process that was to convince

me

to vote VP, not the sort of thing that I would expect to convince others.

Bullet point reasons please. I don't think you get a free pass to drop a vote and skate when you said you were going to reread and think about stuff.

[VP Baltar]

@VP
@Titus

If tomorrow isn’t elo why talk about it.

I was pointing out that Titus was making bad assumptions that you are going to live until elo, because I suspect that is still a few days away and you will probably get NKed before then.

If you take the confbias hat off for a minute, you would see that.

[VP Baltar]

town deaths that might have been avoided if VP-scum had been eliminated earlier.

Which multiple town deaths are those?

[VP Baltar]

This is like watching an anime tell a story over 6 seasons that could have been told in 20 minutes...


If VP is scum, he deserves on of those little badgy award things... Or dude need to just go start writing fiction.. He's used more "scum" material this game I have my entire career of mafia.

Not scum

Games like this make me wish I ever rolled scum.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar

Yeah, VPB-Frogster-Enchant-Tene is my solve.

Cool
Then if VP is town then elim Titus then April in that order
If VP is scum elim Titus

That’s my final wish.

And my final wish is that people listen to me. Titus should not be a first elim choice when you see my green flip. Jesus.

[VP Baltar]

Not hammering thx

Even if you're scum, I know I can count on ur luv bb

[VP Baltar]

Shoot Nero

[VP Baltar]

vp you're just a straight up town ascetic neighbor?

Yeah

[VP Baltar]

Let me look at my reads once more to see if I need any updates

[VP Baltar]

vp you're just a straight up town ascetic neighbor?

Yeah

So then you’re scum for not claiming neg util at start. Cool.

I claimed in like my 10th post genius

[VP Baltar]

Math, you got to stop tanking games with these blind tunnels.

[VP Baltar]

Let me look at my reads once more to see if I need any updates

Give me like 40 mins. I need to get some work finished first, then I'll prioritize this

[VP Baltar]

and a few of the reasons that others sr you to be more convincing

vps case on me was and always will be trash. It's possible he's just this bad but I think he's just scum faking shit.

Enchant hasn't given a reason to why he thinks I'm a better flip than VP or why he thinks VP is town nor did he even try to vote me.

April was pushing me yesterday that I was scum for fence-sitting but when pressed had nothing.

Skitter was pushing the same nonsense day 1 that I didn't have a reason to change my Wu read or that I can't.

Titus doesn't really have a reason and is even "leaning town" on me.

So what are these "convincing" reasons?

Scummiest post of the game.

[VP Baltar]

I too think Scorpious is town unless he is mafia.

[VP Baltar]

thats hardly what I said but mock all you want...

no problem

[VP Baltar]

VP's UPDATED PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
Cape90
Enchant

Scum are almost all here:

Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face
April Ludgate
DeasVail

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

Frogsterking
Scorpious

[VP Baltar]

my final pagetop. tear

[VP Baltar]

what changed re frogsterking?

I believe there is a nonzero possibility his playstyle is shifting somewhat dramatically as he is playing more games. Could still be scum, but if I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, I can see how he would look at our last game together and want to change his playstyle.

[VP Baltar]

Nice, I managed to disappear from VP's reads entirely.

whoops sorry, I cut your name to paste in the town column, but forgot to paste. I'll EBWOP

[VP Baltar]

EBWOP

VP's UPDATED PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
Cape90
Enchant
tenebrosluminary

Scum are almost all here:

Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face
April Ludgate
DeasVail

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

Frogsterking
Scorpious

[VP Baltar]

so much negativity and so many piles of unhelpful posts into the thread.

you are wrong.

[VP Baltar]

I'm also worried that if we did get a VP green flip we would spend the next 2 days mislimming Nero and Cape because of unfounded speculation.

I really don't think it's cape. If Nero does happen to flip town, consider that the mod is trolling assumptions about neighborhoods.

[VP Baltar]

Music to hammer by

[VP Baltar]

Haha, why is Danny DeVito a backup singer in this not very good song? The 80s, everyone!

[VP Baltar]

VP, are you sure you want me to hammer? I don't like it, but I see no other option. I also am feeling like garbage.

I'm already past the point of this being avoidable today. I can't say I'm giving anyone a free pass to hammer because scum could potentially use that as an excuse to avoid vote responsibility. But if you feel the need to, I'm not personally going to hold it against you. Someone is going to have to do the dirty work.

[VP Baltar]

Feel better, Titus!

[VP Baltar]

stop blaming everything on Math. He's not the only one that felt like there's scum in the hood.

True! Start blaming Nero.

[VP Baltar]

but math is such an easy scapegoat since he's conftown

hands are tied! can't do anything about it, sorry guys!

Nero before Titus pls.

[VP Baltar]

hey, you skitter and cape were also pushing that there was scum in the hood as was everyone but dats

Do some squats overnight. This backpedal is going to take some serious leg strength!

[VP Baltar]

if VP scumflips we need to think about fire and Enchant flipz too. Titus is still scummy and Boon doesn't get a pass for bussing.

No town player would legitimately think I'm flipping scum when I'm dead and telling you I'm town. They'd probably just eat humble pie and shut up. This is theater.

[VP Baltar]

if VP scumflips we need to think about fire and Enchant flipz too. Titus is still scummy and Boon doesn't get a pass for bussing.

No town player would legitimately think I'm flipping scum when I'm dead and telling you I'm town. They'd probably just eat humble pie and shut up. This is theater.

Scum do this all the time. I haven't given up at all.

If I was scum, I'm not going to sit here and spew like this. I'd either stop posting (awhile ago) or just shit up the thread with endless wifom.

[VP Baltar]

gg scumbutts. Town's biggest mistake this game was stubbornness, and yall deserved the win given the setup.

Thanks for modding Mizzy and worst!

[VP Baltar]

gg scumbutts. Town's biggest mistake this game was stubbornness, and yall deserved the win given the setup.

Thanks for modding Mizzy and worst!

Tbh it’s my lack of

I should have just kept insisting on Galron but I was trying to be cooperative

Then not being allowed to cooperate made me insist on Titus

Then I should have used that clout to demand Galron.

I messed up by trying to be good town

IDK, we could have had frogster very early in the game if people were willing to give up on pet theories. The neighborhood was also a disaster all the way around. I think we could have all benefited from listening more and talking less probably. Just my two cents.

[VP Baltar]

Also just wanted to say that I enjoyed playing with a lot of people in this game, with particular shoutouts to Yeet, tenebrousluminary, Malcolm, cape90 and fireisred who I’d never played with before.
I’m sorry for the part I played in making it a more confusing game for town, but it was still fun because of all of you! Take care <3

+1 would play with anyone in this game again.

[VP Baltar]

I mean we were both scum reading Skitter but also scum reading each other. I think if we had gotten Skitter then we might have stopped scum reading each other. Between the 2 of us we were scumreading the whole scum team.

Yeah, if we could have compromised on Skitter first, that hood would have been supercharged. It's a bummer that slipped away.

[VP Baltar]

I do understand why Yeet claimed though. Nine times out of ten, that would have been the right move there.