Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[tenebrousluminary]

I would be tempted to sheep fire indefinitely if they were not anti-me.

[tenebrousluminary]

Save 2807, those seem like mainly just trying to discredit him to me, but okay

Discredit him how? By calling his points bad and explaining why? What, specifically, do you think I have not addressed that should be?

You going to answer this tenebros?

I wasn't planning to, no.

[tenebrousluminary]

Bye!

[tenebrousluminary]

[tenebrousluminary]

I wasn't planning to, no.

is there a reason you are refusing or are you just saying: "no, I will not answer this" ?

The question is asking for a lot of effort and I would rather just drop the topic than give it.

[tenebrousluminary]

I wasn't planning to, no.

is there a reason you are refusing or are you just saying: "no, I will not answer this" ?

The question is asking for a lot of effort and I would rather just drop the topic than give it.

It's not a lot of effort for me to ask you to give me specifics instead of generalizations that are shading me. It's only a lot of effort if you're making shit up and don't have actual reasons for what you're saying.

Okay, then it's because I'm making shit up and don't have actual reasons for what I'm saying. Congratulations on winning the argument!

[tenebrousluminary]

I am experiencing a lack of confidence again.

I hate that I have been so OMGUS-driven this game yet I see Deas unvoting and can't help but want to reconsider.

I feel better about a handful of townreads than any scumreads. Scorp, Nero, fire, Cape are all town to me. That provides some grounding. April's posts have felt good as well.

I still suspect VP and Yeet. I do not have a good reason for this. But feeling less gung ho about everything in general.

As I peruse the player list, Eyes jumps out as someone I should investigate more.

I am aware that this post involves me both bringing up a boring lurker suspicion and returning to lower confidence at a time when that might look convenient. I hereby decree that this self-aware line makes it okay.

[tenebrousluminary]

So either datisi is scum to you or it's a power wolf scenario. I'm obviously not a power wolf, so am I scum with Datisi? If so, why did I try to kill him at the start?

[tenebrousluminary]

April, looking through Malcolm and VP, I would feel better about eliminating VP at this point. Was there a particularly compelling reason you had for not eliminating VP? Apologies if I've missed it.

There's no actual case. That's the most compelling case for not eliminating me.

I'm fairly-annoyed at how badly town is playing here, but will try to answer questions before this laziness slumps toward my elim, which is what is happening.

You seem experienced enough to know that "wah, no case" is a classic scum defense, and yet.

[tenebrousluminary]

Cool discredit VP. Got anything else?

[tenebrousluminary]

Regardless of how you characterize that interaction (and I disagree), bringing it up in response to my unrelated point is discrediting.

[tenebrousluminary]

Discrediting me as a player whose opinion matters. Obviously. It's the same thing you did when Cape made points that you decided he was not allowed to scumread you for, except even more blatant.

[tenebrousluminary]

Barring extreme cases such as townies lying about their role, it is your job as town to get the right reads.

I may not be extremely great at this job, but I will still acknowledge my responsibility in the equation.

[tenebrousluminary]

I don't care what your read of him is but there should be a progression and a lack of progression makes you look informed whether its that you know that he's town or that he's your buddy and you are expressing a town read on him so you don't have to vote him.

Perfect. So I'm scum irregardless of whatever VPB's alignment is?

You are making this out like Nero is being dishonest, but he is allowed to scumread an action you've taken on own.

[tenebrousluminary]

My way too early prediction theory right now is:

Malcolm, Fire, Scorpius, Skitter slot

If I may contribute another reason to my case for Scorp town, I do not think as scum he would have reacted to my defending him by questioning my motives. He needed allies at that time and I think he would have just taken it.

[tenebrousluminary]

My way too early prediction theory right now is:

Malcolm, Fire, Scorpius, Skitter slot

If I may contribute another reason to my case for Scorp town, I do not think as scum he would have reacted to my defending him by questioning my motives. He needed allies at that time and I think he would have just taken it.

Noted. Yeah, I had scorp town for a while too, so it's really a POE slot for me.

What're your thoughts on Malcolm?

I think he could be scum, not feeling it super strongly. I think he likes to hide behind a veneer of reasonability that makes it hard for me to read him in either direction, and you have some good points, and his "wah, no case" defense is no less unconvincing than when VP did it. So I'm planning to stick with my VP vote, but I am not mad there is a malcolm wagon at all.

[tenebrousluminary]

There is something about pairing him with VP that appeals to me, but that may be more aesthetic than substance.

[tenebrousluminary]

Like why is April's slot under so little pressure? It was heavily pushed on day one, Ari left the game, April came in, argued they weren't mafia based on their lack of posting, despite being a replace-in, then accused me and admitted they had no clue as to what was actually going on in the game while doing so, and yet has stuck to that wagon since. It's just such a nonsense case and it's ridiculous town are even contemplating it at the moment.

She is solving. Not exactly rocket science to piece together why she isn't getting votes.

[tenebrousluminary]

Like why is April's slot under so little pressure? It was heavily pushed on day one, Ari left the game, April came in, argued they weren't mafia based on their lack of posting, despite being a replace-in, then accused me and admitted they had no clue as to what was actually going on in the game while doing so, and yet has stuck to that wagon since. It's just such a nonsense case and it's ridiculous town are even contemplating it at the moment.

Did you ever pressure the slot?

(I honestly don’t remember and can’t easily check rn so it’s a genuine question)

Not until April posted regularly - I've stated before I thought Ari seemed genuine because I didn't think mafia would pressure the masons so hard, but April's read of me has been so weak and incoherent that I feel like it's borderline desperate mafia trying to build a case against someone else with little to go on.

Why would she be desperate?

[tenebrousluminary]

If the reasoning for Malcolm is that he's a partner with VP I'm not sure why we should stop voting VP?

Nero making actual sense

He isn't actually, because that is hardly the main reasoning being used. Main pusher April does not even think that is what is happening.

[tenebrousluminary]

My point being, why can't April simply take either the wagon against me or the one against VP, since she comes in to both sitting out on a silver platter?

[tenebrousluminary]

Look through my ISO and analyse all my mentions of VP if you want. It is fundamentally not the ISO of teammates, there is no need for me to so consistently suspect them at this point in the game.

Your intense focus on the viability of a you-VP mafia team is very curious!

It matches up with his desire for concrete points to rebut.

[tenebrousluminary]

Good point, and that was a concern of mine too, since I think scum are more likely to want something solid to defend against

I concur.

VP's stances right now are straining the bounds of credulity.

[tenebrousluminary]

Lol this guy says he isn't arguing I'm scum. Very unsure!

didn't say that lol. obv i was arguing you were scum before. but i wasn't convinced, i never am

So you always argue people are scum up to e-2 that you're unsure about? How unsure were you?

what kind of a question is this lmao? yes??? that's how mafia works?? everyone is always unsure

Mafia run from committing. Town are unafraid at the moment of limming

TIL I'm mafia every game.

[tenebrousluminary]

Problem is I likely die tonight so it’s nothing like last game.

While we're on the subject I'd like to put it to any protective roles out there, real or otherwise, that if Math dies tonight you are scum, no excuses. Thank you for understanding.

[tenebrousluminary]

If I were to recommend reading, I would say the first 60 pages and then skip until April starts posting frequently.

[tenebrousluminary]

It's pretty overconfident to assume you can catch more than one at a time, imo. It's better to play the game we know is in front of us than one we can build up in our heads but might be fake.

[tenebrousluminary]

You -- I'm saying let's worry about whether Malcolm is scum or not before we go assuming we know who his partners are if so.

[tenebrousluminary]

I try to read people by what they do as opposed to what they say. I care more about why than the what.

Aren't these two sentences opposites?

[tenebrousluminary]

For instance, assuming Math is a mason, then why would scum shoot monkey over Math?

Probably because Math gunked up the game for 30 pages and made a lot of players not want to listen to him.

I don't mean this in a rude way, what he's doing now is fine.

[tenebrousluminary]

Scorp is town. Please stop getting distracted. We have at least one in VP/Malcolm.

[tenebrousluminary]

VP is only playing scummier under pressure yet he is still alive. Scorp is only a target because it's easy, no one actually thinks he is scum.

[tenebrousluminary]

I do. Scorpious struggles with content as scum and gets protected because he's adorable. He still wound up dying eventually but we won that game.

He has not been adorable this game and I've provided several reasons I think he is town based on game actions. I do not blame you as much as you probably have not read my posts to that effect, but it really feels like we have scum on the ropes right now so I'm pretty sus of the motives of these sudden votes on not just a lurker, when we have some actually legit leads to pursue, but the towniest lurker.

[tenebrousluminary]

I am protecting him, yes. I have been very transparent about that!

[tenebrousluminary]

Deas and Fire have made some strong points about how VP's stated beliefs do not match up well with his actions. He is, in my opinion, also flailing and lashing out in response to pressure.

I am not as sure Malcolm is scum, but April has provided some reasons. He is hard to read and takes refuge in logic.

Both of them have responded to pressure by complaining there is no case, which I feel is scummy.

[tenebrousluminary]

I think they are not teamed based on Malcolm's treatment of the idea they are, but I could be wrong.

[tenebrousluminary]

We took the easy lim yesterday and it did not work. It is time to take the hard one.

[tenebrousluminary]

One of the more obvious mislims I have ever witnessed.

[tenebrousluminary]

I will certainly compromise on Malcolm if that is what it takes to prevent the horrific suggestions that are going around.

[tenebrousluminary]

Let's flashwagon someone else.

Get on this fire wagon.

What is the case against Fire, since you insist cases are mandatory?

[tenebrousluminary]

Just that? One vote move? That's the best you got after 165 pages?

[tenebrousluminary]

He is scum, so that's less surprising.

[tenebrousluminary]

He is scum, so that's less surprising.

Why are you even asking me questions if youre going to have bad faith arguments that are not even remotely accurate? Please stop wasting my time if you're conf biased or scum.

What bad faith argument did I make? If you have been mischaracterized, you should be upset with Nero, not me.

[tenebrousluminary]

5) VP kinda flips out and starts making repeated logical and comprehension errors

Incorrect. Keep shading though.

This is all in the thread and easy to read. Don't know what you think propaganda like this achieves.

According to you fire is scum, so the purpose of a misrep from him should be very apparent to you! Perhaps you forgot.

Scorp is town. Please stop getting distracted. We have at least one in VP/Malcolm.

no and why

I have been asked about this repeatedly. At this point, I'm going to say read my posts.

He is scum, so that's less surprising.

Why are you even asking me questions if youre going to have bad faith arguments that are not even remotely accurate? Please stop wasting my time if you're conf biased or scum.

What bad faith argument did I make? If you have been mischaracterized, you should be upset with Nero, not me.

Lol yeah, you and Nero shading me for an answer to your question that I did not give is certainly good faith on your part.

I was typing up a response to you, but ya had to get some shade in there before you even heard the answer.

It's fun. Everyone should join in.

tene what do you think about the flash vote on Scorpius and there being the fact there are still viable wagons on both Malcolm and VP Baltar?

I believe virtually all of my posts on the last three pages address what I think about that. Are you reading them?

[tenebrousluminary]

He is scum, so that's less surprising.

Why are you even asking me questions if youre going to have bad faith arguments that are not even remotely accurate? Please stop wasting my time if you're conf biased or scum.

What bad faith argument did I make? If you have been mischaracterized, you should be upset with Nero, not me.

Lol yeah, you and Nero shading me for an answer to your question that I did not give is certainly good faith on your part.

I was typing up a response to you, but ya had to get some shade in there before you even heard the answer.

So you decided not to post that response out of spite, or something? Awfully dismissive of you. And I'm told that is a grievous sin.

[tenebrousluminary]

Oh jesus that "decently likely" thing? That was such weak shit. I'm actually laughing irl that that's your brilliant case.

I won't deny that I am absolutely arguing in bad faith here. You're scum and others need to see it.

[tenebrousluminary]

I believe virtually all of my posts on the last three pages address what I think about that. Are you reading them?

No I am literally asking you a specific question about the

current

gamestate

The wagons on both Malcolm and VP are literally still there, in fact VP still leads in that department

I am unsure what your point is. My view is that the Scorp wagon is bad and possibly includes scum trying to make a CW on town, even if they haven't entirely succeeded yet. Dragons and Titus being reasonably likely culprits.

[tenebrousluminary]

Oh jesus that "decently likely" thing? That was such weak shit. I'm actually laughing irl that that's your brilliant case.

I won't deny that I am absolutely arguing in bad faith here. You're scum and others need to see it.

Yeah, if town, you're very bad at this game, but I keep trying, so...

Neg me harder.

[tenebrousluminary]

@tene: Please help me see why Scorpious is so town to you.

This is something like the 5th time I've been asked this. Here you go:

I feel that at this point Scorp's continued line of posting is not survivalistic at all. It seems calculated to annoy others into voting him, if anything, so I think he may be town.

It feels like at least one of VP and Yeet is scum in this interaction.

Maybe. What are your thoughts on Scorpious?

I gave an opinion on him a few posts ago. Light town because I think scum would stop the line of posting he's made upon observing that no one likes it.

My guess on Scorp's alignment is looking pretty good right now.

This one benefits from context.

And to boot, I don't think he knows Math is a mason.

This is going to make heads explode, and then I have to commute...

How would I know if anyone is a Mason? was it said? is it implied?

Did i just miss it in the 50 pages i missed?

be back later

It has been said repeatedly and at length, yes. And if you were scum, you'd have read it in your scum thread. You're not aware of it because you're town.

Q: A scum scorp would benefit from a strong roleclaim. So why does he claim VT at E-6?
A: He doesn't.

It is easier to push nobodies than established players, and many of you clearly know each other. That is my latest theory for why we are seeing a push as lame as the one against Scorp, and said push persisting in spite of his townie reaction.

Tene. You’ve been the most “acceptant” of my content…

Why?

I felt your string of posts on the page where you were calling the attack against you random read as very genuine. I also don't think you were faking not knowing that math is confirmed town.

Pressure sometimes works for affecting people but sometimes it’s more about people’s reactions to it.

yup, and I can see you setting your trap. If I don't respond I'm avoiding.

If I do I'm overreacting...

Not my first rodeo homie..

again, I've been down this road. When a hyper posting heavy hitting hyper poster starts promoting wagons they usually go through, so just take note of the posts that will ultimately end up in my mislim and use the knowledge from there.. I already know where this is heading..

These ones looked good to me for example.

I also son't see much benefit to your outing as VT if you were scum.

My way too early prediction theory right now is:

Malcolm, Fire, Scorpius, Skitter slot

If I may contribute another reason to my case for Scorp town, I do not think as scum he would have reacted to my defending him by questioning my motives. He needed allies at that time and I think he would have just taken it.

[tenebrousluminary]

Where’s Galron?

Oh and if Scorpio is town then people would be climbing all over themselves to agree with me.

Kinda feeling Galron or Scorpio.

Quick count, but 10 players posted since your vote. About half of them are either voting Scorp or telegraphing they would do so (Cape, Eyes, Nero, Enchant).

[tenebrousluminary]

Where’s Galron?

Oh and if Scorpio is town then people would be climbing all over themselves to agree with me.

Kinda feeling Galron or Scorpio.

Quick count, but 10 players posted since your vote. About half of them are either voting Scorp or telegraphing they would do so (Cape, Eyes, Nero, Enchant).

Yet they don’t because…?

Usually when I am town and wrong the wagon happens.

But here it’s nothing. It is weird.

They want it to look natural? If we have a right wagon right now, this day and the optics thereof are pretty dangerous for them long term.

[tenebrousluminary]

fireisredsir (1): VP Baltar
Yeet (1): MalcolmTucker
Nero Cain (1): Scorpious

[tenebrousluminary]

Vig Dragons, Titus, Galron, or the survivor of Malc/VP if they flip town.

[tenebrousluminary]

Vig Dragons, Titus, Galron, or the survivor of Malc/VP if they flip town.

So you think all these people are scum?

No, but I don't townread them and I think they'd provide some info.

[tenebrousluminary]

My last wish is deaths in this order regardless of VP’s flip

1) Galron. Dude scumslipped and faked reads and it’s freakin obvious. Skitter30 also had a tell of pings.
2) April. April needs death. The fact they haven’t got an elim off at this point and Ari’s defense of Galron is bad AF
3) Titus unless she pushes a scum elim fast. As I said there was a scum in Datisi/Wu

Wake me in dead thread if there is still a game after that

Explain how it's a scumslip like I'm 5? I see the inconsistency but it seems like such a silly mistake, idk.

[tenebrousluminary]

Vig Dragons, Titus, Galron, or the survivor of Malc/VP if they flip town.

So you think all these people are scum?

No, but I don't townread them and I think they'd provide some info.

What info does a Dragons vig provide?

I'd love to know why Scorp is always pushed instead of him.

[tenebrousluminary]

I'd love to know why Scorp is always pushed instead of him.

Wouldn't vigging scorpion provide that information much more directly?

I am not going to advocate for vigging my townread.

[tenebrousluminary]

Not that any of this matters since the vig is either blocked or fake. Leaning towards fake. Why are we even talking about this?

[tenebrousluminary]

My last wish is deaths in this order regardless of VP’s flip

1) Galron. Dude scumslipped and faked reads and it’s freakin obvious. Skitter30 also had a tell of pings.
2) April. April needs death. The fact they haven’t got an elim off at this point and Ari’s defense of Galron is bad AF
3) Titus unless she pushes a scum elim fast. As I said there was a scum in Datisi/Wu

Wake me in dead thread if there is still a game after that

Explain how it's a scumslip like I'm 5? I see the inconsistency but it seems like such a silly mistake, idk.

Math is saying that Galron gave a "town" read on Math so Galron would look like he has accurate and good reads this game. Math is alleging that Galron already knew Math was a mason (something galron seemingly confirmed?).

It seems like the case is basically that Galron is stupid then?

[tenebrousluminary]

Malcolm could just be solid scum with a steel backbone, but I feel it is more likely he is making town posts in this state because he is town.

VP is still just throwing shade. We should kill him. If that falls apart I would rather try to cfd Galron than accept the other options.

[tenebrousluminary]

He is approaching the game with a goal to instill doubt. The shade throwing allows him to do this to players he does not allege are scum.

That's fine. I did read your argument and it did give me pause but I am going to have pause about anyone.

[tenebrousluminary]

Can you give an example tene?

Yes, just look up. 4404

[tenebrousluminary]

Or search his iso for nero posts lol.

[tenebrousluminary]

I want to see the wagons tighten up.

VOTE: Malcom

[tenebrousluminary]

Can you give an example tene?

Yes, just look up. 4404

I don't see how that's remotely shading. Also, you can't shade confirmed town. That's just a ridiculous thing to say.

Of course you can. You can convince everyone they shouldn't be listened to. I almost didn't bother posting this it's so obvious.

[tenebrousluminary]

Fine.

VOTE: Galron

[tenebrousluminary]

Yes, yes, everyone who suspects you is antitown and eats rocks for breakfast, get a new act.

[tenebrousluminary]

It's probably good that Yeet's reads are upside down from mine.

[tenebrousluminary]

I had a dream that Galron flipped scum, but we had eliminated him Day 4.

It is certainly strange to see quite a few players losing their minds about a Galron elim of all things. I also don't trust some of the aforementioned players, which makes the situation all the more difficult. But they aren't all going to be scum, and I can't imagine scum would want to sink themselves over a partner who is doing nothing.

VOTE: VP

[tenebrousluminary]

I still need to shot Galron?

shoot eyes or scorp

I am surprised that no one has seen an info soft in my scorp defense, I say without confirming or denying anything of the sort.

[tenebrousluminary]

I'll just say if I am an info role then I have something like that but I might be bluffing to save my townread. Your move, scum.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: VP

If Math and Nero switch back that gets VP up to e-2 I think. Scum!VP flip for D2 is definitely still on the table, and I think it implies town!fire going forward because of VP's attempts to pocket fire in 4700, 4705 and 4709.

Kill this with fire when I'm dead

Unless fire is a very small person, I doubt I would be strong enough to use them as a weapon.

[tenebrousluminary]

I think Cape's post there was addressed to you April, not talking about you.

[tenebrousluminary]

Protective roles stay on Math or else, btw.

[tenebrousluminary]

Tene, thoughts on wagons?

Same as ever:

VP is scum
Malcolm might be scum if I'm wrong but I would prefer the other options
I moved off Galron solely because of Yeet

I haven't thought very hard about who is where and whether that bothers me.

[tenebrousluminary]

Tene, thoughts on wagons?

Same as ever:

VP is scum
Malcolm might be scum if I'm wrong but I would prefer the other options
I moved off Galron solely because of Yeet

I haven't thought very hard about who is where and whether that bothers me.

Hey, Tene. I defended you super hard at the beginning of the day, and your inverse scum read is the wagon I want, wanna hammer it?

I won't defend VPB tomorrow if I'm wrong.

Fire thinks it could be both of them anyways.

I'm not ready to give in quite yet, but if the latest surge of VP votes fails, I can hammer.

[tenebrousluminary]

There are a few places in that case where I saw some leaps I did not agree with. I think they may be so obvious I do not really need to put effort into dismantling them. In short, the points against frogster are okay but the conspiracy theory is a bit silly. I don't see why scum should give so much of a shit whether they got galron through or not in your world, and the idea nero was signaling his partners in thread is laughable.

I'm just going to wait and see for a bit.

[tenebrousluminary]

I also think it's pretty disingenuous to call it a conspiracy when I brought all the receipts to check yourself. You can think it's wrong, but who is scum then? You've basically lost footing to ride the VP scum skate by anymore, so who is actually scum here?

It is a conspiracy. I do not believe in the scum motivation you have assigned to Nero and Dragons is fair, and I do not even townread either of them strongly.

I do not know who is scum. I find it strange that you seem to think I have few options for who could be scum apart from your theory. I am most tempted to vote for Titus right now, but not feeling ready to commit to anything.

I actually am quite capable of continuing to suspect you. You did work but that work looks bunk to me. Nice try, though.

[tenebrousluminary]

I don't like tene saying protect Math or else with an invest soft in the game.

I regret this now. I will refrain from doing this in the future.

[tenebrousluminary]

We are not eliminating galron so please get off it.

[tenebrousluminary]

It's suspicious that the neighborhood is even still in use given how much everyone in it hates each other.

[tenebrousluminary]

I wonder if scum will even lose a member this game. It feels unlikely.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Eyes

[tenebrousluminary]

If yeet hadn't flipped PR, scum effectively gift a town Galron. They only make that kill in a town Galron world Math.

I respect you, but I won't follow you.

No they did not.
Traitor is a possibility and is in fact the probability.
Galron is proven and admitted faking reads.

Even if we knew Galron to be a 100% guaranteed traitor, we would not elim him right now. We need real results.

[tenebrousluminary]

Far as I am concerned anyone not hunting in that hood of four is intentionally antitown or scum.

So I give zero ducks if you don’t want to find scum where it’s likely you can die.

I love being intentionally antitown. What fun it is.

VP is probably scum, but if I could not get him yesterday, why would I be able to today? And if I'm being honest, I also got bored of voting him.

[tenebrousluminary]

People on this site care so much what others do with their votes. I get consolidating at end of day, but I fail to see the point in telling at least half the scum they don't need to sweat because we're intentionally ignoring them. Keeping them playing a little worried is one of our greatest weapons. With no pressure they can build beautiful monuments to appearing town and distancing.

[tenebrousluminary]

So while I still suspect VP, I already know what he looks like under pressure. Maybe i want to find out what someone else will do.

[tenebrousluminary]

Nah what other people will do is clear

It’s ignore math

Make me the patsy when it all goes to shit and get called bad and wrong without substantiation

We need people to actually follow the fucking mason to an elim which would happen if it was anyone but me

You seem to have forgotten that we did run up Galron before he was semi-cleared.

[tenebrousluminary]

As a Mason you do get more say than the rest of us but that does not make you king.

[tenebrousluminary]

Nah what other people will do is clear

It’s ignore math

Make me the patsy when it all goes to shit and get called bad and wrong without substantiation

We need people to actually follow the fucking mason to an elim which would happen if it was anyone but me

You seem to have forgotten that we did run up Galron before he was semi-cleared.

1) He’s not clear
2) He’s not been flipped
3) He’s scum

I cannot work with someone who has no interest in my thoughts any more than you feel you can do the same.

[tenebrousluminary]

As a Mason you do get more say than the rest of us but that does not make you king.

You’re right I do get more say
And that has been fucking ignored all game

My point was that it hasn't. We listened to you about Galron until the available evidence changed. I am sorry that you are having trouble factoring in that evidence but I am not going to pretend it does not exist.

[tenebrousluminary]

Nah what other people will do is clear

It’s ignore math

Make me the patsy when it all goes to shit and get called bad and wrong without substantiation

We need people to actually follow the fucking mason to an elim which would happen if it was anyone but me

You seem to have forgotten that we did run up Galron before he was semi-cleared.

1) He’s not clear
2) He’s not been flipped
3) He’s scum

I cannot work with someone who has no interest in my thoughts any more than you feel you can do the same.

You’re not interested in mine

You labeled him as clear already.

So you’ve labeled me as wrong before I began.

It’s the same damn hole and problem.

I literally said semi.

He could be scum but pursuing higher probability targets right now is fundamentally correct.

[tenebrousluminary]

And hell like I said if you disagree with that Nero or Cape or VP should be the elim

Asking me to elim town is silly and I won’t support it.

I don't subscribe to the setup speculation that is leading you here.

[tenebrousluminary]

So if you say I am wrong bring receipts

Explain how that setup passes review or vote in that hood

I am not aware of any rules governing the alignments of neighbors. If there is one, please point me to it.

There is no "fake" masonry. That is not what neighbors are.

[tenebrousluminary]

I don't even disagree that it likely contains scum, but that's just because I independently distrust those players. Artificially narrowing our search does not appear beneficial. I believe we mathematically are more likely to hit scum if we ignore the neighborhood if you treat 0, 1 and 2 scum as equally likely possibilities. 3 I admit would be quite unusual.

[tenebrousluminary]

It is likely annoying that I come with "no"s and few "yes"es, but:

I think Enchant is not mafia because his claimed targets don't look planned by a team that is paying attention. If he is a serial killer I do not care right now.

The Yeet night kill does not make anyone he was townreading look good. He was clearly killed for his role.

[tenebrousluminary]

he is saying that voting in the hood is correct play today. i don't think he said anywhere that there were 3 scum in the hood. he thinks there's 2

Correct this is correct

This is why I like fire and to a point tene

Even if we disagree they are stating what I am saying correctly

The bar is truly on the floor today.

VOTE: VP

[tenebrousluminary]

I hear a lot about Math being sucked up to but I do not see anyone actually doing it.

[tenebrousluminary]

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

1) Why wouldn't scum just force Galron through until yeet was forced to claim, thus verifying the investigation result? If Enchant is town and honestly telling, then they net a dead Galron and possibly a dead yeet/blocked yeet and dead Math?

Because if I am right Galron is scum and they won’t know how or why Yeet thinks inno

Could be Galron did the kill N1 as disposable scum
Or he’s traitor and didn’t want to risk it.

Then if they force Yeet to claim when Galron flips town learns a lot

Let's slow down and unpack this.

If Galron was the traitor, then scum would have to know that and know yeet's result would be a good one. That is unlikely given how few posts Galron had d1. A traitor communication would have been spotted. Maybe it was before he came in but it'd have to be there. Then, they'd have to assume yeet cleared a player they're assuming to be bad.

If Galron did the n1 kill as "disposable scum", then this also makes suppositions. 1) That scum would infer that he wouldn't be blocked or 2) He's a goon with PRs and there's no multitasking. and 3) no one else fits better. That's still assumptions to make. They'd also have to assume yeet got a clear that shouldn't be true. They don't know his role.

Occam's Razor applies here.

Agreed. The fact that they killed Yeet to me suggests that they knew Galron to be town, or at least not full scum.

[tenebrousluminary]

I do not think I want to kill Titus anymore.

[tenebrousluminary]

I do not think I want to kill Titus anymore.

Why not? She’s like doing blatant scum!Titus

Misrep and discredit and ignore

I don't see any of these things. It looks like an honest attempt to work with you to me. I know that's not what you want to hear right now.

[tenebrousluminary]

Titus, what is "agency captured" and how does it differ from being wrong?

[tenebrousluminary]

I need to reset somewhere unless all the town on VP are agency captured.

I think fire and tene are probably the most likely town there. Obviously Math is gone until he gets his way or a scum flip makes him realize he is wrong. Frogster will join my wagon whenever he shows up. (I am assuming he is avoiding the thread as scum ploy until scrutiny is sufficiently redirected onto the 1v1 that Nero wants because there are not actual answers to the way he played around glaron yesterday).

The level of agency capture needed to make my wagon a perpetual issue is probably smaller than you think. It's been the same group of people confbiasing since day 1 or so. The problem is that my play is pretty obvious town over time to people reading the game, so the wagon can't get up above six typically.

I wonder if you could go 10 consecutive posts without insulting or discrediting one or more players who suspect you. Ides of March resolution, perhaps?

[tenebrousluminary]

I can't post muxh bc driving. I may miss things and cannot do citations or check them however I think a few things need responding to.

Tene, agency captured is a town player who unwittingly works for scum. I highly suspect that to be happening given the miseliminations on town. That's part of why I feel a need to stoo this wagon. It's major cog dis.

That just sounds like a fancy way to say wrong.

[tenebrousluminary]

large group of townies acting like they had a frontal lobotomy

because they are too lazy to read the game is when I need to take a break. I'll come back later when I'm less annoyed because

I don't want to say something mean

to someone.

[tenebrousluminary]

VP's PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
April Ludgate
Cape90

Scum are almost all here:

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

DeasVail
Enchant
tenebrousluminary
Scorpious

@titus, I don't think much has changed about this reads list. Bottom pile is the null to scummy folks, and I'd guess there is max 1 scum in there. I probably wouldn't lim in that pile until later if I didn't have to. Either some of those folks will rise to the occassion and start separating themselves as more townie, night actions will help (possibly unlikely unless we have another weak investigative), or y'all kill the scum RB and Enchant really is a vig who can clear out some detritus.

Only other caveat I'd say is if Nero doesn't flip scum somehow after I'm gone, I still think Cape is town and Math is right about galron. Statistically, I think that's unlikely and you should trust the yeet clear until flips say otherwise.

Outside dark horse is April with that weird claim start of day, but probably town who felt like shit after the malcom lim and decided overnight that mercy is the only option. Good luck this game, you're going to need it.

Re: the above reads list, I feel like you should have enough content from myself and tene at the very least to have some kind of read there, yet you seem to blame us for not having worked enough. I don’t know how active tene has been this game day, but in my case it feels a bit like opportunistically exploiting my lower activity this game day, as I feel I have been quite actively involved prior to this day.

I did not bring it up as I have antagonized VP enough this game, but whether one finds it good or not, i have done plenty and it should be more than possible to commit to a read on me. Or at least, to not say any uncertainty is because i have not done enough.

[tenebrousluminary]

If VP is town, scum are either doing nothing and laughing as we chase our tails, or playing embarrassingly large circles around us.

[tenebrousluminary]

This does feel like it could be another in the litany of errors. Hold me, fire.

I do not think I am on board with April's disappearing act.

[tenebrousluminary]

Math lives to endgame, Titus dies tonight or tomorrow. That's my prediction.

I'm putting all my faith in scorpious to win this game for town lol

What a random person to suggest could carry us. ???

[tenebrousluminary]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

[tenebrousluminary]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

Someone who's good at the economy help me budget this

[tenebrousluminary]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

Someone who's good at the economy help me budget this

have less question marks

No

[tenebrousluminary]

Frogsterking - scum?
Scorpious - town
Save The Dragons - town?
Nero Cain - town?
DeasVail - ?
Titus - ?
Enchant - eisbfoejwbdkfjdneldj
Galron - town
fireisredsir - town
Eyes without a face - ?
VP Baltar - scum?
April Ludgate - scum?
Cape90 - town

Someone who's good at the economy help me budget this

have less question marks

No

What slots would VP's flip help you with?

That would depend on what he flips.

I plan to do significant rereading if he flips scum. If he flips town, April looks better, Nero worse, probably more.

[tenebrousluminary]

Scorpious - town

Scorpius is literally the biggest question mark right now, how are they town, their plays make very little sense tbh

I am not answering this again.

[tenebrousluminary]

There are some decent alternatives being slung around right now and my desire to explore them is at war with my desire to make VP stop posting.

[tenebrousluminary]

Oh, so Galron is scum. Lol.

[tenebrousluminary]

Disagree with my VP and Galron reads fine

But there’s no way in a 19 P game
Scum have 2 masons with unseen communication
4 players with unseen communication
And a cop
And a vig

That’s a never passing review.

So scum has to be in that hood.

I have never seen anyone ascribe so much power to neighbors.

[tenebrousluminary]

Oh, so Galron is scum. Lol.

???

The speculation about numbers makes me think there's a traitor, and he fits the bill.

[tenebrousluminary]

Maybe there is a shot to lim scum today fire.

I am halfway convinced to flash wagon tene

Those posts are bad

Like tene isn’t in the hood but it feels either blatant suck up or a slip.

If that was a slip in the way I believe you mean it, I would not have used the word "scum." I would have said "oh, Galron is our traitor." But it wasn't one.

[tenebrousluminary]

Maybe there is a shot to lim scum today fire.

I am halfway convinced to flash wagon tene

Those posts are bad

Like tene isn’t in the hood but it feels either blatant suck up or a slip.

If that was a slip in the way I believe you mean it, I would not have used the word "scum." I would have said "oh, Galron is our traitor." But it wasn't one.

I just find it weird to have someone agree with me after all this resistance

Like April and Galron would be my top two elims

Where is boon?

I still don't want to eliminate him, we need to find real scum today. It's not all that big a change from my previously expressed stance.

[tenebrousluminary]

The fact that the most of the game isn't really discussing half the lurkers aside from STD and a little about April's real life is uhhh

Have you accepted Scorptown as your personal lord and savior?

[tenebrousluminary]

Maybe there is a shot to lim scum today fire.

I am halfway convinced to flash wagon tene

Those posts are bad

Like tene isn’t in the hood but it feels either blatant suck up or a slip.

If that was a slip in the way I believe you mean it, I would not have used the word "scum." I would have said "oh, Galron is our traitor." But it wasn't one.

I just find it weird to have someone agree with me after all this resistance

Like April and Galron would be my top two elims

Where is boon?

I still don't want to eliminate him, we need to find real scum today. It's not all that big a change from my previously expressed stance.

How is boon not “real scum”?

Galron. Context.

[tenebrousluminary]

I'm losing engagement too tbh. It just never ends.

[tenebrousluminary]

All caught up (unless new posts while I'm composing this)

Current reads:
[*]Eyes without a face, [*]Nordrom/Mathblade
[*]Save The Dragons, [*]Aristeia/April Ludgate
[*]fua/Enchant, [*]Nero Cain, [*]VP Baltar
[*]fireisredsir, [*]DeasVail, [*]skitter30/Galron, [*]Cape90
[*]Scorpious
[*]Datisi/Titus
[*]Frogsterking, [*]tenebrousluminary

So where has your me push been since forever?

Okay, before I call it, gonna do a reads list

Titus
Fire

Nero
Scorpious
Enchant
STD

Eyes without a face
DeasVail
Galron

_____

tenebrousluminary

Cape

Frogsterking
VP Baltar

Now, I think Cape has a similar amount of equity as scum as VPB/Frog, however, if VPB is scum, I don't think Cape is. If VPB is town, I think Cape is scum.

Tenebrous is almost coming down to POE scum.

I don't really see the point of Frogster saying that line he did as scum with VPB town.

There's likely a scum, 2 if we're living in the Cape scum world, and I think the lower on my 3 townie tiers they are, the more likely they are to be scum. I don't think it's Titus or Fire.

Currently my guess would be the DV slot.

What did I do to go from your top read to scum?

How can you or anyone possibly pair me with VP?

[tenebrousluminary]

I wonder if April expected me to town her forever for white knighting me and is flipping because it didn't work.

[tenebrousluminary]

I dont think you get to put VP scum for being a CW to a wagon you started.

[tenebrousluminary]

Purple and Pink tier are pretty close to each other, it's really just your attachment to that triangle.

What attachment lol

I have interacted with Frog like literally never.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Cape

Fuck it

We need to prove April and VP scum

And if I am wrong and VP is town everyone wins

Please stop voting for players you don't think are scum. You did this yesterday to "prove April," didn't you? Isn't she already proved, to you? The day has barely started, you don't need to give up.

in what world does someone who says she will vote anyone to save VP
who says she has him as her strongest TR
who literally has zero attempts to solve cape's slot in her iso, just a couple mentions of a townlean

in what world does that person vote VP over cape here

Aren't you voting Cape? Why? If he remains a serious wagon I am willing to attempt to towncase him, that is the worst elim in the neighborhood to me by a mile.

Are we serious with how much we’re posting?

Apparently.

VOTE: April

One check-in I feel like no one is scum, the next I feel like everyone is scum.

[tenebrousluminary]

It's pretty incredible how impossible it is to elim VP this game, though.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Scorpious

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Frogsterking
VOTE: DeasVail
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Enchant
VOTE: Galron
VOTE: Eyes without a face
VOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: April Ludgate


This post is a cry for help.

[tenebrousluminary]

It's pretty incredible how impossible it is to elim VP this game, though.

I'm actually astonish math is tanking his own wagon. The town in this game is so fucked between math and Nero.

I’m not?

Omg I just noticed that he's implying Nero town again in this post. VP reeks of someone who knows going after Nero is a bad look for him but is so tilted he can't stop himself.

[tenebrousluminary]

but agree that this thread is getting mildly toxic and out of hand.

Agreed. That's why my position is Math decides and then Enchant decides. I've given my pool. I just hope Enchant listens.

Enchant is not even paying attention, and he's either fake or roleblocked anyway so who cares?

VOTE: VP

Please can we just end this misery?

[tenebrousluminary]

you know what, let my lim go through, I think it confirms Nero as mafia becasue look who swapped to me.

Maf are desperate and it shows

You're not getting out of this game that easily, sorry.

[tenebrousluminary]

If it's any consolation Cape, if VP is a miss, I plan to go elim outside the neighborhood, not chain lim all of you for no reason.

But everyone else is so fixated on it that I'd probably fail.

[tenebrousluminary]

GUYS LISTEN.

MASONS WERE OUTTED D1 AND A HARD INNO WAS CLAIMED D2. THERE IS A FLIPPED PSYCHOLOGIST. THE NIGHT KILLS COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN STACKED. THERE CAN BE A DAMN KILLER AND THEY ARE PROBABLY FLAKEY AND WANT VP ALIVE.

Who cares?

[tenebrousluminary]

GUYS LISTEN.

MASONS WERE OUTTED D1 AND A HARD INNO WAS CLAIMED D2. THERE IS A FLIPPED PSYCHOLOGIST. THE NIGHT KILLS COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN STACKED. THERE CAN BE A DAMN KILLER AND THEY ARE PROBABLY FLAKEY AND WANT VP ALIVE.

Who cares?

Are you voting VP right now luminary or did you make up some excuse?

I'm voting VP...

[tenebrousluminary]

So it's higher than 100% now? Impressive.

[tenebrousluminary]

So it's higher than 100% now? Impressive.

you made a readslist too, you are just forcing out content

how do you respond flailing scum?

This post reads like you think I accused you of this. You may have me confused with someone else.

[tenebrousluminary]

I'm ready to move on. I don't feel confident but I want this game to move towards being over because I am not having fun. Can we kill VP yet, or do we need to post 40 more pages of nothing?

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: VP Baltar

Yeah, VPB-Frogster-Enchant-Tene is my solve.

Wow, I am amazing at bussing.

[tenebrousluminary]

Not sure if I buy April's confidence level. She was so ashamed, allegedly, about day 2 she just hid, then by the end of today she's arrived at "if I have 1 wrong" which implies an extremely confident solve. And it's a solve that's ass backwards from her earlier reads and based mainly on a mystical voodoo triangle from a single frog post or something having bad juju. Hard to believe this is real.

I have really liked Titus' interaction with Math, but I acknowledge that fire has good points. Could be persuaded.

VP has had so many ridiculous views and put so much negativity and so many piles of unhelpful posts into the thread. I am second guessing but I want to move on more than I want to be right.

[tenebrousluminary]

Nice, I managed to disappear from VP's reads entirely.

[tenebrousluminary]

I'm also worried that if we did get a VP green flip we would spend the next 2 days mislimming Nero and Cape because of unfounded speculation.

[tenebrousluminary]

if VP scumflips we need to think about fire and Enchant flipz too. Titus is still scummy and Boon doesn't get a pass for bussing.

No town player would legitimately think I'm flipping scum when I'm dead and telling you I'm town. They'd probably just eat humble pie and shut up. This is theater.

Scum do this all the time. I haven't given up at all.

[tenebrousluminary]

Wow. Is there any possible explanation for that kill other than the mafia having info on his role?

[tenebrousluminary]

Nero Cain (4): VP Baltar,

fireisredsir, Enchant, Scorpious

Let's talk about this one, since you 3 are the ones here.

Do you guys think this is a possible all 4 town on Nero wagon

Sure, of course that is possible. Surely we have learned a lesson from the neighborhood about arbitrary groups? Is that too much to hope for?

[tenebrousluminary]

What if I told you that yes it is.

[tenebrousluminary]

Enchant, telling us who you killed last night shouldn't be so difficult that you can't do it while busy. I can see how it might take you a minute to invent a lie, though.

[tenebrousluminary]

Enchant said they’re out of shots

I missed this, but if he did say it, what a foolish thing to say, unless it's a lie.

[tenebrousluminary]

FTR I have reason to think you are town unless you are scum with a certain person but your vote is bad and the fact that you don't care about being bad is just horrible.

btw this post might be why nero is dead (referring to scorp here)

knowing he's a doctor tho, idk what he meant by it, it might've just been based on play but it sure sounds like mech

I believe he meant me.

[tenebrousluminary]

also tene even if he did mean you, scum might not have known that and thought it was him softing something else

Possible. I would think it wouldn't be worth killing him though. They could find out when he was inevitably voted today.

[tenebrousluminary]

We're just going to keep doing the same thing, huh?

[tenebrousluminary]

Here's my main thing. I see Frogster-Titus and Frogster-Cape as two possibilities this game. Frogster fits on almost any team I see + it's my guy VPB's main push, and I actively told him yesterday "Your Frog case is a lot stronger than your Nero case", and there's a reason for that.

"My guy VPB" is some revisionism.

I am pretty sick of making infallible arguments and being ignored

Your ego is showing.

Boon is responsible for Malcolm and VP
Nero was shot by scum

And Wu was a frustration elim

You dictated hood. You're responsible even if not by your hand.

If you get a frustration lim, so do I.

Nope
I don’t barter with scum.

I as mason should have had full control
Instead I have been stopped at every turn by you and Boon

I am taking you out today

Stopped at every turn? Didn't you support the VP elim? I don't understand.

--

Neighbors aren't masons. We've already proven that neighborhoods hurt the town if anything. Plus, I still think it's Galron traitor + 3 townies. Or it could be four. What frustrates me most is that even when it's revealed that I am right about this, everyone will probably blame the mod and move on without learning anything.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Frog

[tenebrousluminary]

Okay. VOTE: April

[tenebrousluminary]

Cape, Tene, can we vote in my scumreads please?

I know if you Tene, April, Enchant and Cape all agree that I'm town then it would be hard to drive through my elimination.

However if we do fight this, then we hopefully would agree on someone. I don't really want April/Fire eliminations

I think you may have misidentified me as an ally when I'm actually just someone who has bigger fish to fry.

[tenebrousluminary]

Cape, Tene, can we vote in my scumreads please?

I know if you Tene, April, Enchant and Cape all agree that I'm town then it would be hard to drive through my elimination.

However if we do fight this, then we hopefully would agree on someone. I don't really want April/Fire eliminations

I think you may have misidentified me as an ally when I'm actually just someone who has bigger fish to fry.

Why aren't Frog and StD fish to fry?

Dragons is probably town.

[tenebrousluminary]

Tene, what motivated you to vote April?

I liked your points and was suspicious of her already. I believe I voted her yesterday as well for a bit.

[tenebrousluminary]

im still not happy with how late yesterday cape was ISOing titus and basically pulled out all the reasons i think she's scum and was like "hey this is scummy!" and i was excited that someone else finally saw it and was ready to call him town and then he lands on "mixed" and "the opposite of a conclusion" and puts her in undecided and then moves on

i was so disappointed

Still half considering going back to my sheep fire plan because I feel lost and you seem not lost.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Titus

Ok, whatever.

[tenebrousluminary]

Curious. I had planned my first post to be quoting Titus' role PM and voting Enchant.

[tenebrousluminary]

That Day 1 Datisi wagon is going to be a gold mine, by the way.

[tenebrousluminary]

Curious. I had planned my first post to be quoting Titus' role PM and voting Enchant.

How come?

He was blocked 3 times and that is a 2x mafia roleblocker.

[tenebrousluminary]

Now 4 times actually. So not sure why Galron is fixated on only Dragons.

[tenebrousluminary]

fire is town. I am suspicious of everyone who fails to recognize this.

[tenebrousluminary]

some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess

class starting back again, cheers

I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.

have you decided you're just gonna mindlessly tunnel every post i make this game? i logged in during my break, saw that nero was supposedly townreading people that hadn't posted, i asked him about it. do you think "nitpicking" that makes me scummy?

I would like to know how you came up with this "mindless" idea. I have been quite clear about why I think the posts of yours I have criticized are scummy to me. It has not been mindless at all.

So long as you continue to make such posts, I will continue to suspect you, yes. Is being scumread so alien to you as to be upsetting?

because it seems like you've decided you're gonna scumread me and are forcing my posts into a scum mindset, as opposed to actually reading them and coming to alignment-indicative conclusions.

and i find it dubious at best that you would consider a post like that scummy, considering its context. i'm not upset, i'm just calling bs out when i see it.

like, this is what i mean when i say specifically looking for scum motivation in my posts. it feels like latching on to whatever i say in order to try to force a contradiction out. do i seem concerned? why wouldn't i dismiss it by saying something about it?

To me, it seems like Yeet's push made you sweat. Resorting to discrediting it as a meme rather than either ignoring it because of not being concerned

or confronting the substance

, to me is the action of mafia. One could call it "dismissive." I could be wrong, of course.

you mean like when i tried to question him about what gives him the jitters and he latched onto the fact i said "good vote" as opposed to actually responding to my questioning? and how the entirety of his push just kept being egging me on without any substantive elaboration? gee, i wonder why i started thinking of the push as a meme. no idea why.

Still think I'm partnered with this?

ackchually before i go

ok? does that make me scum? if no, why are we having this conversation? if yes, why aren't you voting me?

I think you made a bad initial vote and that you're trying to justify it under pressure but cant. And i now am!

VOTE: skitter

(1) what pressure
(2) you've seen me so many times make early votes that had more confidence than justified to get the game going and see the reactions to it

Pedit @dats me questioning you abt your vote. The more i ask you abt it the more i feel like there was no initial reasoning and you're trying ti back-justify it

And my issue is that you presented it as a scumread and the reasoning you gave was somewhat empty

And now you're saying it was more of a reaction vote? Why is my reaction scummy?

do you expect there to be some super strong case / reasoning from me on page 2-4, whatever it is? (when i'm not playing with ico, that is ) like, A Thing from tenebro pinged me, i decided to vote him for it, both to show that i got bad pings from his slot, and to see if any interesting things happen as a result from it. i do this *checks notes* all the fucking time as both alignments. which is something that you should know, and the fact that you're giving me shit for having an "empty" vote early on is, like, not a good look.

like, what's your idea here? that scum!me panicked, made a random vote that i had no idea how to justify because i thought i wouldn't get asked about it?? then when, surprise, did get asked about it, i only then started thinking about a justification?? like you know better than this...

- this in some ways reads like an OmGUS-y reaction to them voting you a few posts prior
- i still disagree with you that his vote was indicative of a 'scummy lack of boldness' and not wanting to stand out when you hadnt had much pressure at the time
- i obviously do not expect a super strong case on p4, and i would habe been fine if you had just said it was A Ping, but the reasoning you're giving doesnt make sense to me as something you actually thought at the time
- you seem to be getting kinda testy / sensitive that i'm pursuing this line of questioning ...

- just because i voted them after they voted me doesn't mean it was omgus... like you can claim it is you want, and i can't prove it wasn't because i can't prove what i was thinking, but like; even if it were omgus, that is scummy why exactly? like you don't get to make such blanket statements about me

- i was the person with the most pressure at the time (and before someone starts crying how this is a contradiction because i called yeet's push a meme - just because it was the most pressure doesn't mean it was actually a lot of it), and okay.

- ok, what is the difference between me just saying it was a ping and me actually explaining the thought process behind the ping? also, what about "there's a person continuously attacking me, and then there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack" doesn't make sense?

- yeah no shit i'm getting testy. same question at the first point: why is that scummy? did i miss some new towntisi meta where i as town don't get annoyed at garbage pushes at me?

there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack"

Because i think you were overestimating how much of a target you were at the time, and how likely scum are to be trying to 'fit in' there by voting you, and i dont know why that universe was more likely than them being town and just not liking one of your posts

And yeah i think you getting this annoyed is more indicative of scum-you, see: recent open wherein you became conciliatory (i.e. vs testy) when you got scumread

and again, why are you assuming that this is supposed to be like, lockscum pack it up boys case

ajkndjbfdkjf

like, how i imagine town enters the game where they have a scumread on a person that is currently being pressured. they will either (a) quietly vote the person to add pressure and say minimal stuff about them, or (b) add a decent amount of content (page-appropriate ofc) onto their push. the fact that he did something *in between* is markers of a scum mindset imo - it shows that he doesn't want to take too much responsibility for pushing me if i happen to flip (so he can't do (b)), but also doesn't wanna seem like scum who's braindead sheeping someone (so he can't do (a))

like OBVIOUSLY this isn't super strong but it's a start. and i see no reason why not to vote there and explore that start. like do you think i'm not aware that reasoning is not very strong??

and after googling both conciliatory and testy... you sure? i'm pretty sure i started voting you there pretty early on after you did some nonsense push on me

There's a lot of interaction with skitter in here. Many of Datisi's targets are flipped town at this point, so if there was any slot he interacted with heavily which could be a partner, I think this is a reasonably likely one. There are parts of this interaction that read as genuine frustration from Datisi, which would suggest not being partnered with skitter, but I am only reading his side of it right now. There are bits I could see as potential bussing, too. Plus, there is a third option, which is that traitor-skitter is distancing from Datisi and he doesn't know it. I think this last might sound the most likely to me right now, but this could be a useful place to analyze for someone who knows Datisi and skitter well or is generally good at associative tells. Would love to get some input on this.

I could still see it as partnered in part because Datisi eventually comes around to a townread on skitter and even chainsaws for her later.

dats tell me you're town again? : )

i'm town, and i will do all that i can to protect this town and you : >

Ari is another slot that I could imagine Datisi being scum with. This interaction could easily be fake, but there's more interesting stuff coming.

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.

this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.

Datisi's entire push on monkey is a chainsaw for Ari.

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

VOTE: nordom

gee, i wonder where i saw this kinda reasoning before

last two games i saw a post like this, it came from scum both times

(i'm not yet certain if i wanna end up on nordom, but this feels fitting to change now, both as a scumread on nordom and as a not-quite-scumread-anymore on skitter)

I don't think I spotted a compelling trajectory to come off scumreading skitter.

Wu was the pressure push and Monkey was just the idle comment because he was a popular choice at the time.

i made one (1) post on wu, AFTER being asked my opinion. and i did not call monkey scum, quite the opposite, i said i don't think those weird posts make him scum. all while pushing skitter and tenebro, who i was first on.

can you acknowledge the above, and then tell me whether you still think i was making "lazy convenient reads on wu and monkey"?

I think it was more than once that I saw Datisi brag about being first on me and skitter, which would be an odd thing to do if skitter and I are both town.

as an escape route. that landed her into more pressure.

Yeah. Just because she thought it would work doesn’t mean it would.

not doing what the conftown player tells you to do and instead being contrarian to them lands you into pressure? wow what a surprise, i'm sure she'd had no idea that would be the end result

Part of the aggressive Ari defense series. Why is he townreading Ari, again?

this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night? because it seems to me that nero had been arguing with her for a longer time, but the wagon only taking off now while she's vla feels like it should be indicative of *something*

So I think very much that Ari was being contrarian to Math because of the b a g g a g e. Personally, i think it would support the claim that it's non-ai. But it doesn't explain her belligerence towards me. It seems to me that it was a blanket strategy to anyone who she thinks she can push around. But saying that, i wonder what datisi thinks about ari's contrarianism now that it's been given full context.

i was very much present in the game where the math/ari shitfight took place, so i was aware of the context at the time. but it doesn't really change my view on her behaviour much? like, ari saw what happened last game, how math started tunnelling her and how much effort it took just to salvage the game in final 6 when math was dead set on voting out ari. so i think it's still fair to conclude that ari wouldn't purposefully be getting on his bad side as scum. the baggage point is... i dunno, if it's true that the whole thing was NAI and that ari was acting like that solely because of an outside grudge, then i kinda lose a bit of respect for her, but i'm really not sure it's the case.

The two-for-one skitter and Ari defense in one easy post. I think scum would be more aware of their partner's VLA than some random person's. Also, I feel that the statement "skitter's wagon taking off while she's vla feels indicative of something" is phrased in a seed-planty way. It's obvious what conclusion Datisi wants the reader to come to, that scum are taking advantage of the situation, so why not say so rather than try to convince the reader this is their own idea?

this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night?

I think some people had mentioned Skitter being scum most notably Math and Fire for not doing her "ping" thing.

Can you link me a game or 2 that you played in where there was a hood?

thanks, i'll check that out.

normal games that i've played in that had a hood are:
viewtopic.php?t=80974 - 9p, town/town
viewtopic.php?t=82613 - 9p, town/scum
viewtopic.php?t=83045 - 9p, town/town
viewtopic.php?t=84455 - 13p, town/town
viewtopic.php?t=84322 - 12p, town/scum/scum

and one game which had a scum/scum hood of a scum and a traitor that i'm not really counting since it wasn't a hood in the usual sense.

so, yeah. i'm really not buying the notion that "there has to be scum in hood because *radio static*".

I must admit this puts a hole in my theory that the neighborhood could possibly be scum-free. Incidentally, what is Cape's read on Galron, since we know Cape was using the neighborhood last night, allegedly?

skitter is really good as town, yeah. the thing i'm thinking of right now is what i commented earlier, i find it weird that there was an actual wagon happening on her seemingly right after she went for a few-day-vla.

Datisi there are 3 people on skitter's "wagon" and two of these people are close to confirmed town.

i am in fact aware of that (though there were more people on there previously)

it does not refute my point that it's odd how her wagon took off only once she went v/la and how it's much easier for scum to vote her once she's away. and how your progression on skitter is less than stellar.

More chainsaw for skitter. It's almost so much it makes me think it could be TMI that the skitter pushes are wrong rather than partnered.

std, is there a reason why you feel so... backseat this game?

Just wanted to note there is an incredibly weak Dragons suspicion throughout this iso that Datisi never does anything about, and in fact he even goes after Scorp among the lurkers despite having Dragons as his #3 suspicion or so consistently. Looks partnery to me.

i wonder if the fact that fua is attempting to push skitter while ignoring me (while the two of us are doing almost the same thing) has anything to do with the fact that skitter is more likely to be yeeted and has more supporters than i do...

More chainsaw for skitter. He's awfully invested in this for someone who was recently scumreading her.

Datisi, what do you think of cape?

was townie early then fell off

eod play was obviously not great but that's a very shallow answer

i will provide a fuller answer in the next 36-48 business hours, really need my vla this week >_>

Not much in here that contradicts fire's Titus/Cape theory.

ok, my bitch ass laptop decided to not connect to the internet so phoneskimming time

looking at scorp's iso in isolation (lol), definitely a scum contender. this dude has done jack shit all game. i think the tell i made on him on d1, that he's not even TRYING to appear townie, is valid, but not insanely so as he was aware that refuge in audacity is a possible defense.

i can def see scorp being scum *if* the rest of his team in a pretty good position. because i think scum is more likely to be lazy if the game seems to be going fine, or if it seems like their partners have it together. (thought goes to umlaut in that one mini normal where he started being lazy when mathblade replaced into his team)

as said, if he'd scum, i think we're lowkey fucked since that prob means there's some deepwolves or powerwolves or whatever. i think nero is a strong contender should scorp flip red; other than fitting with my bullshit gamestate reads, i think he also tried to make an eyes wagon a thing when math was trying to wagon scorp?

also, the fact that (1) there is absolutely nothing townie about scorp (2) there's still practically no wagon on him despite that and despite a MASON pushing him makes me feel like the game isn't a fan of his wagon (though i'd have to run another check to see if anyone was actually properly pulling away from him)

so, like, in total? 6.5/10, my gamestate reads aren't always great, but i would not mind a wagon here

This is a sudden flip compared with Datisi's earlier expressed Scorp townread because of his "Luca Blight tell." I believe it supports Scorp town, and makes me question why Dragon gets no attention from this quarter.

VOTE: frogster

not loving the fact that it feels like everyone and their mother is defending scorp, but let's see what happens here

I believe this comes from a desire to keep Scorp mislimmable for later.

Datisi, what do you think of cape?

if i were there now, i'd be voting cape. 2610 feels like a "how DARE you question me on my speedy lolhammer you SCUMFUCK" shadethrowing when it's like, quite obvious why he should be getting questioned for it, the defensiveness feels unusual because like, obviously he's getting shit for it

and i think it's unlikely cape/malcolm are s/s because i have a hard time imagining two scumbuddies deciding to do this weird lowkey shade but not really push thing on the same person one right after the other

bottom of page 106, be back in a bit

I don't understand what "if I were there now" means, but it sounds like an excuse to maintain a Cape scumread and avoid acting on it. While I have found Cape's play to be town, I am only seeing support in here for fire's theory.

If anyone cares, my strongst scum reads right now are VP, Cape,and Datisi...

give me one reason why these aren't just random 3 names you pulled out of a hat

@nero, do you actually have any reason for scumreading me other than me not accepting your "hood therefore must scum" idea as gospel?

This is an odd thing to become incensed about for someone who allegedly scumreads Cape.

TLDR: I think Dragons, Cape and April have increased scum equity compared to how I felt before.

[tenebrousluminary]

Dragons had almost zero interaction with Datisi so nothing to see there.

going to move Cape90 into my townlist because 215 is too adorable

I don't want to think in Mystical Voodoo Triangles, but it is awfully tempting.

Dats did you roll town again ? ? : )

dats tell me you're town again? : )

This is a slot that showed up to the game already intending to not give Datisi a hard time.

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

so which one would you like to do today dear?

Hey look, it is the exact thing VP did that was suspicious. Knowing I'm town, at least, there's no difference. I wonder whether Cape also tried to push me early on, I see that all of Datisi, Ari and Dragons were united there.

Sure let's discuss Datisi then.

Why does Scum Tisi decide to not create a townblock?

This again seems like someone who started at "Datisi is town" rather than someone who arrived there.

Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me.

Do you have a previous case of Datisi pressuring you off the bat? Is it scum!indicative for him to be interacting with people other than you?

Revving up the chainsaw for Datisi.

You assume that Datisi is able to create a townblock in the first 24 hours of a large theme... which makes very little sense to me - you also previous stated you think nothing ai has actually happened and you think people shouldn't be able to form reads - this is a contradiction just on the surface.

You are imposing a standard that by your own admission is absurd upon Datisi and using it to push him.

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

We are 24 hours into the game.

Datisi has been in class for 10 hours and slept for maybe 6 or 7 hours.

Your expectations are ridiculous and directly contradict what you previously said about there not being enough alignment indicative material to create townreads this early.

The defenses are endless and I do not even know why Ari is so sure of Datisi town.

probably try this

VOTE: scorp

The Mystical Voodoo Triangles are speaking to me again. Dragons, Datisi and Ari all targeted Scorp, seemingly from whole cloth.

Do you really think its not ok for Datisi to repeat his viewpoint to another player in the game who might not have read his point earlier since this is a large theme that is moving very quickly?

Chainsaw.

still think its Ari/Skitter maybe eyes and yeet

I think Dats just thinks he's a better player than he really is and doesn't want his friend voted out.

you misread me last time we played what makes you think you got any better this game?

I'm not sure if we have ever played together on this account. If you are talking about mini 2258 then it was House and Dats that I thought were scum, not you. Unless you are like a House alt. And ITG I was town/null reading you and even defended you in 1618. Was I misreading you then?

mm I guess I misremembered - you wanted Datisi dead not me in 2258.

Easy to see how this could earn Nero the label of "enemy" without inviting reflection.

[tenebrousluminary]

Granted, it seems improbable that scum-Dragons would make his main contribution to the game a bus on Ari/April.

[tenebrousluminary]

2435 is definitely a post scum!me would make in order to go "ackchually i didn't know it was hammer i didn't count hehehe" and my short history of playing with cape tells me he is the kind of person who *would* be paying attention to how many votes there are on someone, anyway

You played one game with me so clearly you can deduce that what you are saying is complete hogwash yeah? It really isn't super convenient on this site to just see who voted what, also I really wouldn't expect such a heavy shift in votes when we were not even near EoD. It was very easy to keep track of the votes in the normal blitz game, but I was literally just on a constant catch up mode for most of this entire game. Should I have looked? Yes. I knew that they received like some votes, like I was thinking 2 or 3 more, not hecking 6 others.
So I keep seeing a bunch of people be like "oh what Cape did has clear scum motivation!" Does it? I don't think it does, what would I try to accomplish with an early hammer? Is Yeet my scum partner? The thread wasn't even suspicious of my slot until I hammered. If I am mafia, this only hurts me unless like Yeet is my scumpartner right? I really don't see my scum motivation there, also I BET one of you would have lolhammered that if not me, just saying, and it wouldn't mean shit probably.

Also, let's think about why I would post 2 messages after a vote has been achieved on someone. I mean, I think this would be against the rules under normal circumstances yeah? But obviously I just

knew

I hammered the vote. Flawless logic I must say. Anyway Datisi the votes say you are mafia, I don't think your content particularly does, also you seem adamant on following my votes despite your laughable suspicion of me, so you are pinging me my good friend.

if i were there now, i'd be voting cape. 2610 feels like a "how DARE you question me on my speedy lolhammer you SCUMFUCK" shadethrowing when it's like, quite obvious why he should be getting questioned for it, the defensiveness feels unusual because like, obviously he's getting shit for it

LOL I mean your not wrong VP did ping me there. Also Datisi, I kinda see this and I think your full of it, your cocky

VOTE: Datisi

scum

you mean like it totally hadn't changed with math and monkey and fua right? because there's no such thing that could shift the gamestate instantly riiight?

There was literally 9 insta votes on GeneralWu. I don't think his Miselim was being avoided no matter if the day was being prolonged or not.

2692 - ok probably at most one scum in baltar/cape/scorpious

Correct, thunderdome me. there is 1 scum between Cape and Datisi, let's go. I am popping off ProHawk style.

this is interesting since i recall when in a previous game cape and i were t/t and he made a similarly-sounding huge wallcase on why i'm scum and i think i did get voted there, and then i got unvoted 5 minutes later because lol but like point being

But cape is mafia this game amiright?

Anyway, what is the mindshift?

Datisi has their sights on too many town. You with me Frogsterking?

i'm cocky yeah

how is that scummy?

Listen, I get why i should be questioned for my lolhammer the other day. But really it's just getting tiring and frustrating to even deal with because I know you and VP and all that will just tunnel me incessantly for it.

I don't think cocky was the right word

It was like

You are obviously posturing and I don't think you believe the words you are saying, you are forcing out something onto me. You literally have jumped on like 2 wagons with me today around the same time too! i struggle how you are believing in real thoughts. Also it really looks like you have your sight set on just multiple people all at once with somehow even less direction then me, and yet you shade me for being directionless?

Datisi also seems to love throwing around this very ironic word "opportunistic" when they only said that word once in the blitz game. Datisi's play has been riddled with oddities around this section of the game and.

The best word I can use is "hostile"

I think you could use that word for me but I am kinda just more frustrated. But Datisi feels

hostile

3049, 3037 (the haha is like ???), 2879, 3383.

I will be off for a bit

UNVOTE: Datisi

I will hold for now actually.

Some thoughts I had that kinda just came to me.

1. Does VP Baltar actually have the thought that communicating in our neighborhood at night is anti town until we "descumify" our hood? Like a night ago I agreed with this until I actually sat down and thought about that and then came to the realization that there literally is no downside really to talking in there at night or whatever.

2. I find it really strange that Nero Cain hasn't really been pushed by either of VP Baltar or Datisi as it seems kinda obvious by the way that Nero has basically been lowkey shielding me and suspecting VP, like since day 1, like this whole time. I want to revisit this like tomorrow or something.

3. As much as i don't like VP like, kinda just shrugging off my big case on them and saying some pretty evidently false things about the wall, like if you took a look at it for one second, it's obvious it wasn't like, prewritted/preplanned from the night before, but it's pretty clear that VP doesn't have too much intention really debunking me... but Datisi does, and still scumreads me off of it.

4. As much as I want to think that my suspicions on VP/Datisi/Scorpius are good. Well, the thing is, I am usually accurate on my scumreads, but the problem is is that I usually have more focus. Focus that I just kinda am thinking I am lacking right now this game. Especially with me not thinking of ruling out anybody from my neighborhood from POE.

5. I think I don't want to push the following players: Yeet, MalcolmTucker, fireisredsir. And then there comes some other people like Save The Dragons (I think recent content is good + they seem consistent in logic when I questioned them on April), tenebrousluminary, DeasVail who I think are all relatively towny and

This sprang pretty quickly out of a former null read, and ended just as suddenly. Not sure what to make of it.

[tenebrousluminary]

If they flip town, April is the last person who should be shot.
If VP flips scum, sure shoot April.

If VP or Cape flips town, the shot should be on the scum pushing those lims.
If VP or Cape flips town, the shot should be on April and suppose that I'm just batshit crazy.

wat?

Only thing that is preventing me from hitting that vote button is IDK how scum!Titus works in either of scum!VP or scum!Nero's world

TMI?

Only thing that is preventing me from hitting that vote button is IDK how scum!Titus works in either of scum!VP or scum!Nero's world

like hey guess what we're not in a scum!VP or a scum!Nero world

so what's stopping you now

VOTE: Titus

Titus did a similar thing to VPB the other day.

But like. You know, I don't like the swap off me they did.

Why did this need to be pointed out?

I don't think this person is partnered with April.

[tenebrousluminary]

Yeah. I don't know if I can get past my Cape townread right now, but that

is

suspicious.

[tenebrousluminary]

My worlds right now look something like Dragons/Cape or April/Galron? I'm not sure Frog fits into either of those neatly.

But I probably shouldn't try to hero-solve it.

[tenebrousluminary]

Can you tell I'm about 100x as motivated now that we got a piece of the puzzle?

[tenebrousluminary]

Scorpius is Town

If Frog is scum with anyone I currently think is scum, this is actively sabotaging their agenda.

@luminary

Are you being evasive and passive aggressive and stuff? That will destroy any teamwork potential we have.

This post is so strange as to be town.

Can you explain for me? I wasn't in that game.

less than 24 hours on the clock for d1, cape makes a huge wallcase on me and votes me. five minutes later (with nobody's input), he unvotes me because he went back and realized something i said actually made sense from a town pov and he might be wrong. cape got immediately townread for the case>reeval (the case itself was rly bad though), and we ended up yeeting both scum d1 and d2.

Thank you for strengthening my townread on Cape.

how does that strengthen it for THIS GAME?

pedit: @frogs

Because that story sounds similar to their play here

how does that strengthen it for THIS GAME?

pedit: @frogs

Because that story sounds similar to their play here

explain this to me like i'm 5.

please.

Their town meta is impulsive and thoughtful and they write a lot sometimes. If they're scum it's good acting, I think it's difficult to fake. I'll be less willing to townread them if they have a performing arts background.

I don't see a Cape partner here.

*sees inanity of page 1*

*bolts to VCs*

*sees inanity of page 1*

*bolts to VCs*

Why even read page one we all knew you were just gonna do that anyway

Yeah it's potentially a LAMIST statement to make with a built in excuse to not share thoughts.

I think luminary suggested the first 60 pages and then skipping to when April becomes active which I'd like because Titus' slot is one I really need to sort.

An alternative approach, not really reading at all and providing fresh reads as they come, could be helpful for scum hunting but would be more difficult for us to read Titus' slot itself.

Just thought this was interesting, I don't have an angle.

I think I'll evaluate April and Dragons alignment based on the way their reads flip. I'm going with this approach because I think they can both get good reads as town, I don't think I have any levels on them through "social deduction" and I think they both keep their cards close to their chest as either alignment.

April's reads are flipping; so where are you?

front half of this wagon is good, back half is shifty, but this seems more likely to hit scum than Malcom flip.

Front half? I am town now?

I think galron is more likely to flip scum based on his flaky play since coming into the game, and I don't think two scum in the hood, so that would make you town.

Here, VP flipped his read from a hard scumread on Cape to a hard townread on Cape, it's not consistent with VP's outted reads and is scum motivated.[/quote]

UNVOTE: Galron

It looks like VP is scum in the hood and being opportunistic for a mis hammer[/quote]

VOTE: VP

please dont kill another limbait target have some courage and vote VP

[/quote]

This post looks town to me.

Now I want to talk more about Dease. Dease completed a large normal a couple years ago with both Nero and Eyes. In that game Dease was the deepscum who made it to the endgame. There are a lot of similarities between Dease's play in that game and this game. I have a feeling Dease may be a player who needs pressure before he releases actual AI information.

I don't see a Deas partner here, and I'm thinking Deas works well as a final partner for basically any world.

VP asked me to answer his questions repeatedly then ducked out when I actually did.

Where did he do this?

Why are you voting no one?

Titus you CAN'T BE SERIOUS. "WHERE DID HE DO THIS?" ??? U R NOT EVEN READING VPS POSTS. U CANT BE. UR TELLING ME U MISSED ALL THIS:
-quotes-
I guess if I had to choose one of Nero, Cape and Galron to be scum in the hood gun to head I would choose Nero on PoE because Nero seems significantly more experienced so I'd weight Galron's psuedo mech clear > Cape's town tells > Nero's town tells.

Seems legitimately upset with Titus, and I think sussing Nero if they had a rolecop on him would be pretty plainly unhelpful.

UNVOTE: fire

I mean maybe I overreacted a little bit, it all made sense in my head. Fire pushed through malcolm and then vp and fire was right there to get credit for titus. IDK I'm go to sleep.

fire is a bit town based on VC

I thought fire looked worse based on votes

No you know what I have good ideas sometimes VOTE: fireisred

This post looks town.

Frog is not moving in lockstep with my suspects and some of them are targeting him. I wonder if he is a mislim.

VOTE: April

[tenebrousluminary]

Was someone suggesting that? I wasn't. fire is my strongest townread.

[tenebrousluminary]

My worlds right now look something like Dragons/Cape or April/Galron? I'm not sure Frog fits into either of those neatly.

But I probably shouldn't try to hero-solve it.

Galron is essentially confirmed town because of Yeet Psychologist clear.

The traitor possibility and the scummy play from skitter/nonexistant play from Galron seem pretty bad to me.

[tenebrousluminary]

Was someone suggesting that? I wasn't. fire is my strongest townread.

then it wasn't you I was referring to, now was it?

And I'm in fire's town block, so doesn't seem like you care too much about your town read's reads.

I will be sure to check my mind reading device before I post in the future.

I can care about them without outsourcing my entire game to fire.

[tenebrousluminary]

Nice discredit!

[tenebrousluminary]

"nothing can be done to change your mind" is clearly an opinion and not a fact. There is no way you could possibly know that to be true.

[tenebrousluminary]

nothing can be done

by me

to change your mind

You actively omitted the most important part.

Still not a fact. It's an exaggeration coming from frustration.

[tenebrousluminary]

Where is the scum agenda in my play this game?

[*]MalcolmTucker,

Vanilla Townie

, eliminated day two.
[*]VP Baltar,

Town Ascetic Neighbor

, eliminated day three.

[tenebrousluminary]

Everyone else says you're supposed to be some sort of god tier town player and you've eliminated 2 town and no scum. What am I to think?

[tenebrousluminary]

nothing can be done

by me

to change your mind

You actively omitted the most important part.

Still not a fact. It's an exaggeration coming from frustration.

Eh it's a fact, but I can see why you still want to push it like an opinion.

Why don't you answer it then? What can I do in this day phase to help make you see that I am town and move your vote?

What a bullshit discredit. You don't live in my head.

If you were to correctly case scum and get them eliminated today, I would reconsider, and might even vote with you if I agreed with it enough. I am sure there are other actions you could take to look townier to me as well. Insofar as I even know what that would look like, it ceases to work if I tell you what to do, so I wouldn't even if I knew. I am not a brick wall.

Where is the scum agenda in my play this game?

[*]MalcolmTucker,

Vanilla Townie

, eliminated day two.
[*]VP Baltar,

Town Ascetic Neighbor

, eliminated day three.

Many more people on it than just me. Were you on either of those? Because if just by being on those wagons make it a scum agenda, doesnt that make you have a scum agenda?

I was on one of them.

What I didn't do was be the main driver for saving VP, get a townie killed singlehandedly, and then flip against him the next day to secure another mislim.

[tenebrousluminary]

Does this feel like a god tier scum game to you?

It could if your goal was to eliminate several townies and then die because you're a Goon.

If you "knew" you were in a pocket you'd have gotten out of it.

I am not only looking at the wagons at the end. I'm sure other players were on both. I find your interactions with them suspicious. I didn't even bring up the wagons until you made me... and speaking of wagons being surface level, your entire case against me is that you colored my name purple lol.

[tenebrousluminary]

Go actively try to make a town case on me.

I'm sure I could find plenty of reasons for doubt.

I also found plenty of plays in Datisi/Titus' iso earlier today that would have made me second guess. Thankfully, I didn't.

[tenebrousluminary]

Here's my thing, I don't care how many townies I have to take out if it helps me get to the right solve. This is why I'm getting pushed, because people can't separate this from a scum agenda.


Worst part is, I think both STD/Tene are just surface level town.

DeasVail said Tene really doesn't seem to be informed at all, and if you're scum, you're good at playing dumb, i'll give ya that, but I'm leaning town.

Cool. Maybe I don't care how many townies I have to take out either. If I'm wrong on you I'll probably be ready to see what Cape flips.

You thought I was scum, as implied by the statement about wanting to push opinion as fact, about 5 seconds ago, but it seems you've realized that's not a good look because I'm obviously town haha.

tene how does it feel to be surface level with me

Riding the surface of the ocean is pretty chill. Hang ten, brother.

[tenebrousluminary]

My worlds right now look something like Dragons/Cape or April/Galron? I'm not sure Frog fits into either of those neatly.

But I probably shouldn't try to hero-solve it.

Given your wall on Datisi that I was reading, I really don't know how Galron fits in with your suspicions list here

I don't think I'm ready to eliminate their interactions as potentially bussing or one-way bussing. The fact it resolved itself for no clear reason didn't sit that well with me.

[tenebrousluminary]

These are the type of players that even after a FrogScum flip, if Fire dies, flips town, I still would get pushed because of no analytical prowess.

No wonder you like VP so much, you're the same person. "I can be wrong, but if anyone dares to suspect ME they're stupid and how dare they"

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Eyes Without A Face

I could see Save the Dragons as mafia. Which would make April town

With this I see no such clearing partner associations for Eyes.

Why is this not a Dragons vote?

These are the type of players that even after a FrogScum flip, if Fire dies, flips town, I still would get pushed because of no analytical prowess.

No wonder you like VP so much, you're the same person. "I can be wrong, but if anyone dares to suspect ME they're stupid and how dare they"

Simplification.

And yeah, it was dumb of us to go after VPB hindsight.

That was earlier in game.

You still are analyzing like it's day 2 with no additional analysis level up.

There are 3 heavy day phases you can actively look and find the reasons why I'm obv as fuck town, but you guys can't even comprehend it because you just don't want to.

Simple as that :shrug:

That's fine. Be wrong this late in the game phase on a slot with actual evidence of a tunnel+pocketed town POV.

Did you miss the part where I literally just did a bunch of analysis based on the titus flip?

i don't wanna have to pull out the shepherd... uh... stick? what's that called? a crook? anyway I don't wanna have to pull that out again, but dragons and tene you followed me last time to the promised land of titus, can you do it again just for today away from the unpromised land of april? and into any of frog/cape/eyes

@Fire - This was another odd move by Cape if Cape is scum. Just like when Cape came after me that one day phase that just felt really dangerous as scum. Could you see Frog/Eyes/STD?

not really! my townblock (math/std/april/deas) is pretty locked for me, unless any of them is a traitor. i don't see any as aligned with titus. frog/cape/eyes are my top 3, followed by galron, then scorp, then tene

I want to ask you to explain most of these reads (not cape, I remember that one) but you probably already have.

[tenebrousluminary]

FWIW April if it is not personal you may want to think twice about comments like "no analytical prowess". Both personal and snooty.

[tenebrousluminary]

I would rather not massclaim in the immediate future.

[tenebrousluminary]

Why would you out before hearing claims from any of those targets

I did indeed take no action night 4 though.

[tenebrousluminary]

The Night 2 Nero follow is really suspicious, but perhaps so suspicious that scum wouldn't have said it.

[tenebrousluminary]

VOTE: Titus

eyes prob votes me over VP so your vote effectively make me the leading wagon.

Wrong! I ain't gonna vote you either. I thought I made it quite clear that I hard townread both you and VP and don't like your back and forth all through the game.

This checks out, but

All caught up (unless new posts while I'm composing this)

Current reads:
[*]Eyes without a face, [*]Nordrom/Mathblade
[*]Save The Dragons, [*]Aristeia/April Ludgate
[*]fua/Enchant, [*]Nero Cain, [*]VP Baltar
[*]fireisredsir, [*]DeasVail, [*]skitter30/Galron, [*]Cape90
[*]Scorpious
[*]Datisi/Titus
[*]Frogsterking, [*]tenebrousluminary

Why was Nero not higher here given your result? The Dragons read does make sense, though.

[tenebrousluminary]

Why is it sus to you?

Because I believe the mafia killed Nero due to having information on him and this could be that very information or you could have produced this claim as a mafia rolecop.

[tenebrousluminary]

Why is it sus to you?

Because I believe the mafia killed Nero due to having information on him and this could be that very information or you could have produced this claim as a mafia rolecop.

Also, this theory is further supported by the death of Enchant. If they had info on Nero, it explains why they waited to kill Enchant even though they were out of roleblocks. Because Nero might have protected Enchant.

[tenebrousluminary]

UNVOTE:

Too much to discuss right now.

[tenebrousluminary]

Why is it sus to you?

Because I believe the mafia killed Nero due to having information on him and this could be that very information or you could have produced this claim as a mafia rolecop.

Interesting. And as a mafia rolecop why am I clearing you of all slots? You were the one I'm pivoted to besides frog. Now it would be silly for me to even bring your name up as a lim without a proper case made by someone else.

It doesn't clear me. But if you in fact rolecopped me -- quite reasonable given implications I made earlier -- you would know I could not possibly have acted Night 4.

[tenebrousluminary]

Hell yeah, tactic worked!!! Got that Tene unvote