NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over

[havingfitz]

hello havingfitz

quick, claim your night actions

Shot IAI N1.

Catching up...should get a post in tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

OK...I've skimmed through the game and looked over all the wagons and here's where I'm at:

VOTE: MOI

Why? We're in D5 and MOI is still here. Not bothered too much by his being on the Pres lynch as I know he's a busser....especially when a scum buddie's ship is sinking. And I do not see scum opting for nhammen N2 and mcqueen N4 as better NK options over MOI. And since scum's kill has gone through every night that means they haven't even bothered to take a shot at MOI if his claim is to be believed. So no shots at MOI in 4 nights...not buying it.

Of the 6 players who were on the Empking D2 wagon at it's peak (L-2); 3 are dead townies (Arugula, Toog & PM); 1 is me (town based on IAI's kill and the fact this role is a claimed Vig [1-shot vig btw]); and the remaining two are MOI and ROFL. If we are to believe MOI's push that ROLF is town based on his quickhammer without a Pres fakeclaim then that leaves MOI. And I do not see there being an L-2 wagon without scum on it. Should be noted that ROFL had no problem hopping back on the Empking wagon on D3 whereas MOI stayed away with useless votes on TF and, to motivate behavior??? on D3??, mcqueen (both VT's btw). A little VCA manipulation?

Not sure how much attention MOI paid to inte prior to voting him today so I want to look at that. None of Sal, ROFL, inte or McStab are clear IMO but after MOI I'm most interested in Sal and ROFL.

[havingfitz]

A couple questions for fitz –

Why is my being alive so problematic but it’s not apparently a problem for you that both confirmed Town via Toog players and your own slot (as confirmed as you can be without Cop information) are all still alive. I’m very curious at why your reasoning is on that end.

Well Toog’s clears were not cleared until D3. N3 was obviously going to be the claimed cop. As for last night…I have no idea why mcqueen was the NK. Not sure why VE wasn’t killed N2 after his claim (RB?)…once again, N3 priority was the Cop. Once again…no idea why mcqueen went before VE either.

Furthermore – so your vote-count analysis on Empking finds me problematic for being on the Empking wagon before he claimed but no on the mislynch wagon? Interesting that I’m scum for not wanting to mislynch the claimed Jailkeeper.

6 votes on Empking at his wagon’s peak. You me and ROFL only ones still alive. I’m town and you make a good case for ROFL being town. That leaves you. And I assume you are savvy enough to stay off a “mislynch wagon” that is heading towards a sure lynch. You even give subtle encouragement to Mcstab and inte to hammer in post 692. Despite being so certain he was actually town.

In the end I'm not going to spend too much time worrying about arguing with you since you are pretty likely Town but I find the selectivity and confirmation bias here pretty questionable.

How can I not be selective when selecting my scum suspect? And no confirmation bias. I didn’t suspect you before I started my read/VCA.

[havingfitz]

your point about staying off the mislynch wagon was my main suspicion for MoI

now, its the blatant mud flinging at an easy target

You saying you're an easy target?

[havingfitz]

ur acting like being confirmed town makes your any smarter

^inte...please explain the comment above.

[havingfitz]

Some of the wagons throughout the game that are of interest to me:

D1

Pres

scum lynch:

IaI

,

mcqueen

,

nhammen

,

Viscera

, Sal,Magna,

Arugula

,

Shattered View

, ROFL

Still alive and off the scum lynch: inte and McStab (though Mcstab’s slot did not participate D1)

D1/N1 thoughts - With the negative attention

Pres

was getting I do not think it is unreasonable to think there other bussers besides

IaI

on the scum lynch.

IaI

was the first vote on the wagon and basically rode it through to the end. Themselves other potential bussers (Sal,Magna and ROFL) would have been more committed to their bus as when they placed their votes there was a very good chance it was going to result in a lynch. Between the ROFL hammer and the

Pres

vote on ROFL to end their participation…I’m hesitant to vote ROFL. Double bussing seems a bit much.

Question to all….do you think we are more or less likely to have scum daytalk in this game? I’m of the opinion “scum have daytalk”. This would boost the chances of ~both remaining scum being on the D1 wagon.

Not sure where the

Shattered View

kill came from. My guess is the mafia goon (

IaI

) probably submitted the kill so the fact Magna was jk’d is null.

---

D2 Sal at its peak (L-2):

Viscera

,

Arugula

, McStab,

TFighter

,

PMyst

,

mcqueen

D2

Empking

at its peak (L-2):
ROFL,Magna,

Viscera

,

PMyst

,

Sal

,

Arugula

,

Toog

D2 ROFL at its peak (L-3):

Empking

,

Velaz

, inte,Sal,

Velaz

,

Toog

D2

TFighter

wagon at its peak (L-4):

nhammen

, Magna,

Arugula

, Sal

D2

PMyst

Lynch wagon:
McStab,

TFighter

,

mcqueen

,

Sal

,

Toog

,

Sal

,

Velaz

, Sal,

Arugula

, ROFL

D2/N2 thoughts –Based on the Sal and McStab interactions I would say they are definitely not scum together. I think the

Empking

wagon before he claimed jailkeeper is key. The only two players still alive on it when it was at it’s maxare ROFL and Magna. I’m leaning very slightly against ROFL being scum so that only leaves Magna. Similar to his comments that the D3

Empking

wagon was most likely not all town….I doubt the D2 pre-claim peak wagon was not all town. One or both of ROFL and Magna are scum. (leaning Magna)

If Sal IS town…McStab could be scum (or town). But I think scum is likely to be on any wagons that have any substance…especially those that do not reach a lynch. If ROFL is town,inte or Sal are potential scum…..but I do not think either one of them works especially well with Magnascum.

D2 TFighter wagon points towards Magna…

D2

PMyst

lynch points to McStab,Sal and ROFL. I think there is at least one scum in this group. Only two not ~confirmed off this wagon are Magna and inte and they do not look like a good combo.

---

D3

Empking

Lynch:
ROFL,

Velaz

,

Toog

,

TFighter

,

Viscera

,

Arugula

, Salamence,

mcqueen

.

D3/N3 thoughts:

I’m not sold on there being scum on this lynch.

Empking

had claimed so IMO scum would be even keener to stay off the mislynch. If scum is on the lynch I think it’s Sal or ROFL but not both. I think there is a good chance that ~both remaining scum tried to avoid this wagon. As I mention in an earlier post I think Magna’s subtle prodding to inte and Mcstab to hammer

Empking

when he had made sure to express his certainty that

Empking

was town seems a bit contradictory. If the read was town…why not try to prevent a hammer from happening and getting people to go for someone else. Instead…Magna puts a lone harmless pressure vote on mcqueen. As for the NK…that was a no brainer to get rid of the cop.

---

D4

Arugula

Lynch wagon:
ROFL,Salamence,inte,

Velaz

,

TFighter

, Magna.

D4/N4 thoughts:

Four of the five people in the scum pool were on this mislynch. Magna dropped the hammer. Not sure how much reference magna had made towards Arugula before the hammer. The NK makes absolutely no sense. Point of interest….Sal and ROFL are the only two players left who have been on every lynch. McStab and inte have each only been on one lynch.

Tl:dr

Still liking a Magna lynch. I need to look McStab over more closely. If Magna is scum I think McStab could be worth a closer look.

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge....busy weekend and Monday = no posting

[havingfitz]

????????? <crickets>

[havingfitz]

Could you provide or link to your slam dunk case on inte?

[havingfitz]

Could you provide or link to your slam dunk case on inte?

i don't have a compiled case on rofl, but meta experience says hes being very scummy now

The question was for ROFL.

[havingfitz]

Rofl...yeah...you've said it's inte and mcstab a dozen times but you haven't really said why. How about you bring up the compelling case you expect of others? Can you actually make a post that highlights why it is so obvious inte and mcstab are scum? What happened to my " good case on magna?"

How's this for a good point....if moi's wagon consists of three ~confirmed town + Sal, even if Sal was scum (which you yourself do not believe) they would still have another player who could have dropped the hammer by now. The fact a hammer hasn't been dropped just adds to the potential that moi is scum.

[havingfitz]

Is this all part of your plan to pull up your big boy pants and show us who is scum?

[havingfitz]

And how are my thoughts wrt Empking contradictory? I think scum would typically try to avoid any mislynch if they could...but especially that of a claimed PR. If you are comparing BP townie to jailkeeper...yeah...not the same IMO. Plus it's a PR that is impossible to confirm unless someone with a gun wants to out themself saying they took a shot at you or if there were an unexplained absence of NKs (which this game does not have). Very convenient role to fakeclaim and if true....all the more reason for scum

TO

be on your wagon since that would be the only way of getting rid of you if you were really BP.

[havingfitz]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

• 2. The mcqueen kill was completely out of line. This strongly leads me to think that Sal's incompetence, McStab's absence, or inte's ignorance/arrogance had a hand in this kill. I really have a hard time accepting MoI having a hand in this kill. But we're faced with a recent third quandary...
  
  3. MoI's wagon was not hammered by inte or McStab (or rofl, but I don't count him). Both McStab and inte were here. They both checked in and knew MoI was at L-1.

rofl & fitz

, can y'all just respond to my second and third points in general, please? I value your opinions most above every other player in this game right now.

2 - I have no idea why mcqueen was NK'd. I'm not even sure if I could come up with a reason that would equate to WIFOM. it made no sense to me.

3 - I think I touched on this already...the lack of a hammer on MOI when he was at L-1 for a decent period of time only strengthened my suspicion of him. Also...I note his ~indifference to this game as well. I will be very surprised if he is not scum.

[havingfitz]

Mcstab....what are the 5 mislynches you claim that Sal pushed?

[havingfitz]

What gambit are you referring to RC wrt MOI and mcqueen? I haven't ISOd mcqueen but I note that other than D2 he had no voting activity in MOIs direction. Too distant IMO to be connected to a N4 nk in favor of ~3 conf-townies.

I see more material in support of a MOI wagon. McStab would be my 2nd option.

[havingfitz]

zzzzzzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

MOI = scum. FFS people....execute a lynch please.

[havingfitz]

If Magna is scum I think McStab could be worth a closer look.

I was going to just hammer but I'll take the closer look I promised. Any last words McStab? A confession/surrender perhaps?

[havingfitz]

OK...McStab, a.k.a. Mr. Fitz is conf-NOT MAFIA...."let's kill him because I think he is the SK" to paraphrase. A closer look over your ISO shows that your initial read on me was that my slot was virtually confirmed town. Good to know. Why has this opinion changed?

And in post 122 you tab my slot as nearly 100% certain town. More goodness...thank you.

Votes on Sal and PMyst were fairly weak IMO. Vote on Sal in Post 296 was warranted. Sal is hard to not vote.

Votes PMyst again (on D2) in part because he was not on Prescending's wagon. This indicates to me that McStab is concious of implications of one's prescence on and off wagons.

In Post 414 McStab encourages everyone to keep voting the player [PMyst]

"still pushing the lynch of the jailkeeper guy."

This despite the fact PMyst had not made any posts between Empking's claim and McStab's accusation that PMyst was pushing for the claimed JK's lynch.

In Post 571 he has ~scum reads on two (now confirmed town) players: Toog and ~mcqueen.

In Post 619 he unvotes the claimed cop (Toog), and instead of laying another vote down on his remaining suspect mcqueen he decides he'll provide his thoughts tomorrow. Isn't that nice. He avoids committing himself to a player wagon and he somehow knows he will be around the next day to give his thoughts (granted the claimed cop would be the assumed NK).

In Post 670 he basically lays out a case for Empking as scum...says he wouldn't be opposed to lynching Empking...and then says anyone who hammers Empking (who is at L-1 ATM) would move to the top of his suspect list. WTF?! You misleadingly implicate PMyst for pushing a lynch on the claimed JK and then the next day...you give subtle encouragement to the case against Empking while at the same time sitancing yourself from his lynch. You never even mention the possibility of a potential hammerer getting it right. You're just prepared to crucify whoever does lynch him. Why? Because despite the fact you support Empking's lynch...you aren't about to actually hammer him when whoever does do that would be such a nice target for you. The fact the empking hammerer happened to be mcqueen and mcqueen was the NK is beside the point. And 6 posts later you claim intent to hammer Empking. That's as good as a mislynch vote IMO. And he (McStab) spends his next 4 posts bashing Empking. But not voting him. Keeping your VCA clean IMO.

And in Post 731 he has decided my slot is now an SK and he would be ok with its lynch. Why no concern about this D2 or D3? And he ends the post with a stated willingness to vote Sal, my slot, Arugula, Moi or Rofl. What ever happened to your suspicions towards mcqueen from the previous day? The only people you aren't willing to lynch would appear to be mcqueen (who you suspects the previous day) and inte.

Note... was going to dispel suspicion that my role could be an SK by showing that both NK's on N1 were shot. However, our esteemed mod doesn't go into that level of detail. I would argue however that since SK's typically do not "shot" their victims, that if there were an SK in the game (ie me as Mcstab is grasping at) the mod would have been more inclined to show different NK flavor.

tl:dr;

I'm not an SK....I'm a 1-shot vig.

Mod...can you elaborate on how IAI was killed N1? Was he shot or killed by some other means? You do mention shots being fired in your N2 NK flavor.

In Post 896 he annoints MoI "near conf town" (WHY?) and with regard to me....states our 1st priority should be finding mafia. Despite the day prior being willing to consider lynching me.

In Post 926 he pulls out the "I've only been on one town lynch" card. As shown earlier...McStab is sensitive to appearances on wagins...especially mislynches. WIFOM. And despite not having a singe vote on him at the time...McStab asks for people to provide a case on him and accuses people of sheeping my case on MoI. I.e. he's discrediting my MoI case and trying to save his buddy.

In Post 928 he tries AtE.

In Post 935 he MISREPS Sal when he says Sal led lynches on a PR and "FOUR other townies." That adds up to 5 lynches. I only see a scum lynch and 3 mislynches, of which I would argue Sal led none of. McMisrep.

In Post 950 there is more appeal (to fear or emotion?). I note that mcStab has incorporated the use os CAPS a lot more frequently on D5.

In Post 976 he pushes the same story he did with PMyst...that even is Sal is town the town is better off without him. If Sal is town and we had lynched him yesterday...we'd be in MYLO right now. Good thing we didn't go for the consolation lynch.

In Post 1022 everyone who disagrees with McStab appears to be a sheep. AtE. AtE.

I can't bother with the last few posts. I'm voting McStab.

See ---> VOTE: McStab

[havingfitz]

Nice. I almost hammered this morning but thought I'd play if safe.

[havingfitz]

Man...that was a helluva N1. Things went perfect for town.

[havingfitz]

Almost no one.....

[havingfitz]

Congrats on a win Sal

[havingfitz]

QT links?

@scum....why the mcqueen nk vs confirmed town?

[havingfitz]

Scum definitely had an uphill battle after the town-PR-miracle of N1 and the cop clearing two people.