NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I think that it would be useful to have you explain your thoughts on the way Boon is presenting his case, especially considering the way Nero is tunnelblitzing him over it and, to a lesser extent, how it is prevalent in Pine's case against Boon as well.
Why do you think it would be non-useful?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6510, Slandaar wrote:What 'case' is Boon presenting?
Basically any of them - though I had a lengthy discussion with him earlier today and if you look at his recent iso you'll see a swathe of self-quotes from him with his 'case' such as it exists.
You could also iso Nero for a conversation with me about how he's reacting to Boon's thought process.
Also, there is some vague sideways attack from Pine out there dinging on the way Boon weak attacked me and then 'followed me to some extent in a way I shouldn't describe as lockstep, but is apparently similar enough for Pine to call scummy - insert your own word choice here'.
Y'know, that stuff.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6515, Slandaar wrote:OK well talking generally my answer to your question is: bad.
What exactly is it you expected?
I expected that answer or a lie.
What do you now make of the people pushing on him for playing in this manner?
In post 6515, Slandaar wrote:In post 6512, Thor665 wrote:
You could also iso Nero for a conversation with me about how he's reacting to Boon's thought process.
That is a different topic entirely.
Sure - would you like to answer it now then?
In post 6515, Slandaar wrote:In post 6512, Thor665 wrote:
Also, there is some vague sideways attack from Pine out there dinging on the way Boon weak attacked me and then 'followed me to some extent in a way I shouldn't describe as lockstep, but is apparently similar enough for Pine to call scummy - insert your own word choice here'.
Y'know, that stuff.
Again. I am unsure what this has to do with my thoughts on Boon's case logic and/or my thoughts on how he is presenting his case?
Clearly - so can you answer this utterly new conversation thread then?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6521, Slandaar wrote:I don't believe in the case of Nero he is doing what you suggest; pushing on him for 'playing in this manner'
What do you think his case is? Because my understanding is opposite your own.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6523, Slandaar wrote:Here is another 7 man wagon, where is the mafia?
For the guy who is talking about the 'final wagon' being worth looking at.
Look at the composition of your 7 man and my 7 man wagons and compare them to the final wagon.
I look forward to your other responses yet to come.
We've been on hold for around a week waiting for you to comment on anything.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
You think the Slandaar read of anyone has not been on hold while he's been posting nothings for this long?
I disagree - mine has.
I am not using it as an excuse to not comment or offer thoughts on anything else that has happened, and if you think there is anything in the game I haven't offered my view on I would be happy to do so for you.
Or is this just an empty attack post?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Can you describe how his case is setup spec?
I can see the setup spec used to decide the wolf/mafia decision - but his scum case on Boon existed prior to doing any of that.
I think his case is this;
In post 6439, Nero Cain wrote:yes...no...idk. My one game with him his night actions were really bad and he just sorta gave up and stopped defending himself when he got ran up. Part of me wants to say "yes" he'd have better logic as town 'cause I think there's a load of scum motivation to push one person over another.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Prod request - Nero
@TSO - poke.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6622, Pine wrote:In post 6614, T S O wrote:I just find nothing you are doing town at all - you're so concerned on winning arguments that you resort to bullshit semantics.
Plus, you're in every Wolf team I think of.
Sigh
No
Even if he is wolf, Boon is a better lynch because BULLETPROOF
It's funny how much you sound like a scum in basically every post you make. Just keep having to say that about you, I suppose.
I do consider that fairly clear Boon/Pine rule out though.
Frankly I'm trying to figure out who Boon makes partner sense as - I know some are trying to sell his push on me as weak but I think the only person he hasn't made a run at today is TSO. I don't think a TSO/Boon team makes a lot of sense. Leads me to go Mafia or town on Boon.
In post 6631, Slandaar wrote:Who doesn't think Nero is scum?
I am of the opinion that he makes more sense as town than scum.
In post 6653, Slandaar wrote:Mafia can't claim mafia, yes.
Which is why Thors reaction to your claim was so bad.
I know that Pine has been utterly unable to find a non-phone to explain his read.
Would you care to try?
No one has done anything to really change my opinions from my setup spec. Both Boon and TSO were pretty happy to push both Pine and Slandaar and, in fact, even changed to a Slandaar push, which tends to clear them as buddies to either.
Vote: Slandaar
L-1
I would still advocate Mafia to shoot Pine if Slandaar flips as not-Wolf.
I would advocate Wolves to shoot Boon.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Actually, as far as the Mafia shot goes, I suppose it depends on who the Mafia is.
I suppose if Slandaar flips town I would mildly buy into my paranoia case of TSO/Boon - but if Mafia is one of those - well, shoot Pine. If Mafia is neither of those and/or is Pine, then maybe shoot in there? That's my vague desperation guess if my current reads are wrong.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I think you somewhat misunderstand the principles of this lylo.
Why were you voting Boons and then weakening that wagon to vote me at the 11th hour?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6664, Slandaar wrote:In post 6657, Thor665 wrote:I know that Pine has been utterly unable to find a non-phone to explain his read.
Would you care to try?
If mafia claims mafia then even with a wolf lynch today mafia dies and loses the game to the nk. Mafia therefore cannot claim mafia.
I saw this coming a while back but whatever still town I expect Nero to hammer.
Okay?
How does that make me a wolf exactly?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6668, Pine wrote:It doesn't. Everything about your D5 play says you're a wolf
I know - it says it so clearly you can't even describe how it does, even while trying to make me an emergency abort last minute wagon to Slandaar.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6670, Pine wrote:I've explainedrepeatedlywhy I think you're scum. Continually saying I haven't doesn't make the case go away
Link?
Because last time I asked you said it was too much stuff to discuss.
You said that here;
In post 6462, Pine wrote:In post 6460, Thor665 wrote:Yes, I agree, 'not a wolf' is useful.
Oddly, we have relational information for Mafia that we lack for town. Crazy that.
Also, we have scummy looking people that need to be sorted as either wolf or not a wolf - again, maiking spotting the Mafia useful.
In any case - again - what was my wolf reaction? Are you intentionally ducking responding to this question?
Yep
Proving what I saw is a lot of work, and I don't Smurfing feel like it
TL;DR is that you got all frenzied, pried for a bunch of information, and didn't actually let up much despite mouthing the words about a Mafia vote being anti-Town. In other words, I felt you were getting really excited to night kill me and wrap the game up. Wolf team' stop goal today (other than staying alive) is to identify the Mafia (another reason I don't feel like indulging you regarding my Mafia reads,) and I just handed you the answer.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
So - as far as your 'already explained it' line - that's a lie. You recently openly admitted you were not going to explain it.
Meh.
If you are a town aligned role I pray I am never town with you. I'm lazy, but your lazy borders anti-town and is covered up by lying.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Yes, I see a lot of repetition that I am wolf - but I would note after nearly half of those posts I asked you bout your conclusion or commentary and was promptly stonewalled.
About the other half of them are not cases, but simple commenting that I am scum with no explanation offered.
So - no, those are all empty.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Put your money where your mouth is then, Thor
Vote for Boon
Or is bussing in MYLO too risky?
Like, just as an example - this is one of the quotes you provide. It is blatantly not even the illusion of a case - it is hardly alone in this category.
All you did was iso yourself for 'Thor' and post every result to try and make it look like a case.
Whoop-dee-doo.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6679, Boonskiies wrote:except I'm not a wolf.
Well, more importantly, if you are a wolf the only wolf partner you have available is TSO.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6683, Pine wrote:Actually, I steadfastedly avoided posts that merely restated my conclusion, and tried to only quote ones that explained my reasoning. Nice try.
You have a very loose definition of 'not restating' then.
In post 6683, Pine wrote:I went through my entire ISO, and only quoted about half the posts that mention you.
In this quote, I am highlighting the collusion between you and Boon. You stubbornly refuse to evenconsiderthe possibility of Boon as a Wolf. Town wouldn't dismiss the possibility, Mafia certainly wouldn't.
I did consider Boon as a Wolf - that is part and parcel of my 'I only see Boon with TSO' conversation. We can discuss that if you like, but it's a clear lie that I haven't considered him as scum in general and wolf in particular. Indeed, he's my frontrunner for Mafia at this stage, and I discussed my reasoning or that also.
In post 6683, Pine wrote:And seriously, how cowardly was it to choose one of the simplest and most straightforward posts to use as your example?
Oh, I only took the easy one, eh?
Okay...
How about 5954 - where you just post a funny picture - that was worth noting as part of your "case"?
Or 6155 - which is you saying 'oh, just because there is evidence that you are not a buddy to someone, it could have been a scum plan!' which is...the opposite of a 'case'.
Or 6263 - which I have repeatedly asked you to justify, as you're claiming I'm Wolf for "bloodthirtiness" while neither showing bloodthirstiness nor explaining how it's a wolf tell.
Or 6411 where you ding me and Boon for 'eerie simultaneous attacks' while ignoring that Boon did the same thing with TSO and that TSO did the same thing with me.
Or 6513 where basically you're trying to make a sarcastic=scummy case.
Aw...crap...I'm being sarcastic again, so now this post is part of your case against me too.
No - your case is just a random Thor+Boon based on how Boon is treating me more than how I'm treating him, and ignoring how I'm treating others (and being treated by others) in similar fashions. Why is that?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6699, Pine wrote:In post 6697, Nero Cain wrote:So why did you decide that I was wrong?
My case on Thor+Boon is simply stronger
To ask the follow up question for Nero.
Why?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6705, Pine wrote:PE2: Goddamnit, we've been doing this all day. TSO and Thor refuse to vote Boon. It isn't going to happen. If either of them does, I'm all over it
Ooooh, so now we notice and admit that TSO hasn't been pushing Boon either.
Fascinating.
Am I still Boon's buddy for not pushing him though?
Or do you want to claim Boon *hasn't* been aping TSO as much/more as he's aped me?
I'd like your thoughts on this.
Keeping your phone in mind, yeah?
In post 6706, Nero Cain wrote:So deadline is in like 10 hours. The only votes that I support today are Boon/Slandaar/no lynch and maybe Pine (but you'll have to explain why he's wolf) so you guys decide what ya'll want.
Your later vote makes me happy - but what the hell was this gak?
Seriously - justify it.
I'll actually ape Boon on this.
This feels fake as all get out.
I stand by my last offered thoughts as regards night actions.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6749, Nero Cain wrote:In post 6745, Thor665 wrote:but what the hell was this gak?
this "gak" is the same thing that I've been sating all day. I really don't get why you and TSO are up in arms about this.
I'm asking why, when Slandaar was at L-1, you were saying you'd help us lynch (from a list including Slandaar) but we had to let you know.
Why did you say that at that point?
@Slandaar - huzzah!-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
@Mafia - so to clarify, shoot Pine.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
It is funny how quiet it can get after lynch like that.
Let's see...
TSO is posting elsewhere.
Pine is also posting elsewhere.
Nero is not.
Boon just posted here, albeit in a chest thumping way.
Still feel pretty decent about my reads thus far. Definitely keeping my wolf read on Pine. Still a little conflicted on Mafia but leaning Boon, albeit Nero better have a sexy answer to my question come tomorrow.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6758, Pine wrote:I'm not posting here (though I am reading) because I'd like to see an actual flip before I make plans. Unlike you, I don't actually know what Slandaar's going to flip
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
@TSO - frankly I translated Slandaar's comment as admitting to a bus - but it was handled so clunky and silly that I don't buy it, as he could simply state a mafia suspect.
I suppose it makes sense that his Mafia suspect was actually in his Wolf team.
So he suspected me or Nero of being Mafia.
The Nero suspicion would also make sense with the way he parsed T/T/M - as Nero was the last vote (unless Nero is the Wolf partner, in which case he meant me...and his vote on Nero was indeed going nowhere), which would suggest one of me, you, or Boon as the bussing Wolf partner.
I may almost be selling myself with Nero = Wolf with Slandaar with that thought - as Slandaar did seem more focused on getting me lynched than Nero, and yet voted Nero towards the end here. I'd have to go look to get a feel for the bus potential there. I don't think you nor Boon make much sense as a Slandaar partner though (and also think I pretty obviously am not even moreso than you two). It would also help justify how weird Nero's vote on him ended up being with that open question thing while Slandaar was sitting at L-1; though wolves who bussed today...well, aren't playing any worse than they've been playing, but it's a continuation of the evidence that they have played poorly.
@TSO - talk to me about your thoughts on Nero v. Pine as possible partner to wolf Slandaar.
@Boon - same question.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6762, Pine wrote:Shrug. Could be trolling. Need a flip
He's trolling a wolf claim after lynch?
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Didn't Nero have a bad dustup with Scripten?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 758, Scripten wrote:In post 751, Nero Cain wrote:Scripten, what do you think of me thinking you are the scum from my hood?
Kinda hard to form any real opinion on it. I don't know where your reads are, am either null- or town-reading other players in the hood, and I am speaking from a different PoV than you are. (You already know your own role. I already know mine.) There's too many variables for me to make a judgement call on that statement other than saying it's wrong.
Eh - this post seems really unlikely as a wolf/wolf interaction.
I think I'm sticking with Pine as the other Wolf.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6763, Thor665 wrote:I suppose it makes sense that his Mafia suspect was actually in his Wolf team.
So he suspected me or Nero of being Mafia.
These two sentences are clunky - to clarify them in order;
I suppose it makes sense that his true Mafia suspect was actually placed in his suspected Wolf team reads.
So he suspected me or Nero of being Mafia which is why he was calling us the wolf team.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Going back and looking - Nero really came out of left field as a suspect there.
It was Thor/Boon for some time.
Eh...-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I do stand by this;
@Mafia - Thor, Boon, and TSO are all pretty blatantly 'not Wolf' at this point. Shoot accordingly depending on who you are.
I still lean Pine.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I'll admit that's a possibility. If it's true - in post game I will take exception to you calling it 'our' though I blatantly started that conversation - you were using weird neighbor analysis to call me scum as I recall untill I pointed out my theory.
But until post game; I'd still like you to answer this.
@TSO - talk to me about your thoughts on Nero v. Pine as possible partner to wolf Slandaar.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
No kill, huh?
TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Hey, guys - guys....guess what.
Thor may have lied about something in his claim.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Claim: Jailkept Pine last night
I do think it's fairly obvious Pine is scum, natch. I suppose on a theoretical concept that maybe scum shot Pine thinking he was scum, and then other scum shot Boon thinking the same - but I prefer to believe that scum shot Pine and Pine shot someone. I also think his reaction shows that he shot at Boon, natch.
@Pine - would you care to help town out by telling us who you think Mafia is? Because I think you're pretty clearly busted Wolf at this stage and, really, you *are* going to be lynched today and I would like to suggest that town has been playing better than Mafia. Wanna help us out with any theories from your Wolf buds now passed or yourself? Heck, if you're Mafia and not Wolf, that alone would be worth heaaring just to help us scumhunt today.
Also, in unrelated news - I am confirmed town - shock.
I also stand by the theory that neither Boon nor TSO look like likely Wolves. I mean, *maybe*...but, man, that was some nasty Wolf bussing action if they were. I bet looking over Slandaar would only help solidify that in my head, honestly.
Nero is still a sad sack for me.
Game balance wise I'm conflicted on Boon - hell, playstyle wise I'm conflicted there.
I think I'm still of a mind to say Boon as Mafia.
I'd like to hear some people talk about Nero v. Boon as last scum. I think it's Pine plus one of them.
Thoughts?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6781, Pine wrote:Unless Thor is claiming BP Townie, that throws Boon back into the possible Wolf mix
If I was claiming that I would have been voting Boon solid for days on end by now - and also calling you all lackwits...and also would have counterclaimed on Day 1.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
@Pine - Okay - so I'm Wolf...who bussed my buddy...and then jailkept you instead of shooting at you because I thought you were the Mafia...and then shot no one or opted to jailkeep instead of shoot?
Riiiiiight.
Dude, seriously, you're just going to be ignored if you keep up the pretense.
@Nero - please go and quote you "leading" the lynch and show me who you got on the lynch. I agree that you voted him - but that is different from "leading".-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6789, Nero Cain wrote:I wouldn't call your sitting on Pine all day and sitting there and going "oh I much rather lynch flubber" leading either. I started the flubber wagon
I would suggest I did more for that wagon than you - but I'm not the one who needs to be cleared of being Mafia.
Don't snark with me - please present a valid case.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6815, Boonskiies wrote:Well, if you guys didn't notice yesterDay, I was trying to act like I was mafia so the real mafia would be semi obvious to me. Also, I was trying to draw the wolf night kill. Obviously a wolf tried shooting me, meaning if Pine's scum, he is mafia, as he was unable to shoot at me.
All things lead back to Nero...
VOTE: Nero
Whut?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
@TSO - we need to start a fan club based around having no fething clue what Boon is thinking and saying at any given moment.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
You can do it if you revisit 6815 more.
Because that gak needs some clarification.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
Is that for any reason beyond 'current derp'? Because that's what it feels you're basing your call off of and I'm not sure that's a wise divining rod. He's actually proud of his derp, and though that makes me pass serious judgement on his play quality it does not prove scum intent.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6838, T S O wrote:I don't know, Thor, I feel we're passing everything Boon does off as derp town.
He has been my top Mafia scumspect off and on since yesterday, and I suspected him before that. I am not passing him off as derp 'town'. That said - I am not willing to believe that derp=scum in his case. There is a marked difference in the opinions. Derp or no - there will be a case on him regardless, or there will not be.
In post 6838, T S O wrote:Like, he says that he was trying to bait-absorb a shot last night instead of hoping for a crosskill.
From a town perspective, that makes literally no Smurfing sense unless he somehow got powered up from one of the BP-shots being used up.
I intentionally jailed someone I was fairly convinced was scum - how is his concept different from my own? Both of us were, in effect, trying to stop a kill at the cost of protecting scum.
In post 6838, T S O wrote:I am considering his reactions when Pine claimed Mafia. They did seem off at the time, but I was Werewolf hunting at that point so didn't really go too far into it.
I don't recall any of those twiging to me - I'd love to see your thoughts on that period.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
For me derp = bad play.
That's the beginning and end of it - and it can come from town and scum in equal amounts.
Hell, I'm pretty convinced scum (both sides) played this game pretty poorly and I do look forward to seeing the scum QTs to watch the NK debates to see if that makes more sense in their conclusions than it appears to (I will admit with a Watcher flip it might justify the DGB shot, natch).-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6843, Pine wrote:Three PRs on one side, vs goon, 1-shot, and something else? The remaining wolf would have to be a bulletproof ninja godfather
The "goon" was a neighbor actually - which some people seem to consider functional for scum (not as powerfula s they seem to think daytalk is, but...meh - I consider 'neighbor' about as useless as Doctor, myself)
That said, currently we have 2 Wolf PR flips and 2 Mafia PR flips.
I'm not sure why the last wolf would need to be a BP ninja GF to balance...couldn't he simply be BP and balance? Or GF and balance? Your stance feels very thin at the moment.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6844, Pine wrote:Not to mention, Town power is kind of weak. Weak scum PRs make more sense.
Currently town has a Jack of Trades (with protective aspects) A Tracker and a limited shot cop who can detect either faction (so double investigative) A limited shot Vig, and also a JKer whom you haven't even bothered to try to figure out how many shots I may or may not have left.
So I see JKer, Vig, and Cop - three of the strongest town roles in existence.
Also a tracker and Jack - neither of which is what I would call weak.
Plus the neighbor gak.
How are we "weak" if that is the extent of town power?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I did add JKer to town power - and I already pointed out that your balance assertions were being made without even trying to ask me how many shots I did or didn't have. I feel like you're only half reading what I post. You're not doing much to sell me on you being town who was targeted for a kill.
Also;
Claim: My JK specifically and clearly only protects against a single kill attempt per night-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6856, Boonskiies wrote:@Pine - who's the wolf, who's the mafia? I'm really starting to lean Nero-Wolf (shot me), and TSO-Mafia (shot you).
Why is that? (he asked - kind of expecting this question to be ignored as all others before it had been)-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6863, Pine wrote:I think it's kind of adorable how much TSO has poured on the turbo against me. He needs for attention to be so far off of him that he gets overlooked
Which scu team are you connecting him to?
Hint: everyone is ignoring your push because it's not a push.
@Boon - your play quality is sorely lacking and it offends me.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I'm sorry that I feel a bizarre concept that people in the game should play the game?
Don't get silly passive aggressive on me, dude. Your output over the past week has been exceedingly poor. If you're sick - that sucks. But if you've been sick for over a week you have enough issues that you should be replacing out. And if you haven't been ill that long - then you ought to be able to be more proactive.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6862, Thor665 wrote:In post 6856, Boonskiies wrote:@Pine - who's the wolf, who's the mafia? I'm really starting to lean Nero-Wolf (shot me), and TSO-Mafia (shot you).
Why is that? (he asked - kind of expecting this question to be ignored as all others before it had been)
@Boon - I fething loathe you.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
You do all realize that - by a substantial margin - TSO is out-towning all of you.
TSO.
What the hell peeps?-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In post 6876, Nero Cain wrote:In post 6871, Thor665 wrote:Your output over the past week has been exceedingly poor
I *might* agree with this mainly 'cause this dayphase hasn't been going on for a week. I've also been a major contributor to the past two scum lynches and I am very likey to be correct on the last two scum. (pine and boons) Why are you pretending like I need a bizillion posts? My content is good, my reads are good thus I don't need 554776654656885656556 posts to be an active contributor.
Yeah, "you" have been totally a leading force on those wagons.
I'm actually annoyed you found time out of your day to post this and not to, y'know, present reasoning or debate some of the questions I have as regards the you v. Boon issue, or anything else pro-townish.
@TSO - speaking of which, you were also going to give me some Boon v. Nero feedback. How is that coming?
I feel like this is a repeat of yesterday, where I announced my reads and reasons, and then other people took weeks to even vaguely present their reads,a nd then we lynched. Is this the thing to do in late game now? We don't debate each other on reasoning anymore? I don't get it.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
@Nero - like, you're clearly not even really v/la.
Fine - whoop-de-feth, Thor is a jerk - I can accept that and will gladly admit to it.
But make your next post game content as opposed to meaningless drivel pointing out that I am being mean.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
I see little advantage to much talking with Pine at this stage - it is on him to show solid evidence that either he is not scum or someone else specifically is - otherwise he's the lynch for today as you, I, Boon (I think?), and Nero have all indicated belief that he's scum. So that's his business should he choose to accept it, and if he's town he should...and if he's scum he should, so.
I'd like to get feedback from you on the Boon v. Nero question.
I'd like to get Nero's and Boon's feedback on the same question.
I'd like Nero to explain his PR = scum theory in more depth, especially now in light of how the no kill night happened.
I'd like Boon to explain his ludicrous claims of who shot where, and why he is claiming them - and if he can't I'd like to see him present a case not based off made up gak.
I'd like to see Nero back up his claim of leading certain wagons.
I'd like to see the same from Boon, frankly.
I'd like to see TSO not sit back on laurels of 'I'm doing better at being pro-town than people who appear to actively be not trying to be pro-town'.
I'd like for this to happen within a few days, because then I'd sort of like to lynch Pine.
About the only job I give myself is I think I should come up with a few thoughts for the scum as to who to shoot based off Pine's flip - because if I'm wrong about him scum will want to shoot smartly, as a scum kill at that point and a town kill from other scum, equates to a win for scum - so it behooves them to be on top of that gak and it behooves me to educate them enough to hopefully swing the crosskill.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL
In working on my own job that I gave myself - I do have to say that the only wolves I currently see are Pine or Nero. I remain pretty convinced that neither TSO nor Boon were bussing yesterday.
So if Pine flips town, and you're Mafia, I'd shoot Nero, and if you're Nero and a Wolf...well...I dunno...it sorta depends on your role. If your role is strong, shoot Boon, if your role is not that strong shoot TSO. Basically pay attention to the balance between the teams and decide whether Boon is really BP and can also be scum.
As far as Wolves, if Pine flips town and you're hunting last Mafia...again, I think it depends on your role. Nero or Boon seem the smart money here, though. As above, it depends. I also will add that TSO is probably more likely cleared of Wolf than of Mafia, so he's sort of like the wild card guess for you. Let's hold on that thought - I probably need to re-look at some of my Mafia theorizing, as I was more focused on Wolves yesterday.-
-
Thor665 Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Papa Smurf
- Posts: 33454
- Joined: October 11, 2009
- Location: Venice, FL