New York 182 - Game Over
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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So for all of you, Choof was most likely town, he did not get what was going on with the flash train on Varsoon and Thor asking him why he was townreading a guy that hadn't posted yet, so he thought we were making a joke at his expense and mr. unpleasant here in the form Gorkinton confirmed it for him, plus I've seen his early town posting in a newbie and it's the same jokey/scummy but not really mix.
I think house is more likely than not to be town.
Just make a case on Antihero when he says something scummy, pressure the fuck out if him and if he starts lurking lynch.
Varsoon, still a hero for vig. shooting Medea the Alien
Pressure on Thor is not likely to accomplice much, hard read D1.
Pisskop, good place to start looking for scum, what you've tried to do with choof is keep both alignments on the table instead of giving your opinion about which one is more likely and I am not a fan.
VOTE: Pisskop-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 151, Antihero wrote:In post 147, copper223 wrote:Just make a case on Antihero when he says something scummy, pressure the fuck out if him and if he starts lurking lynch.
you've never played w/ me when i'm town...
where did you get this from?
From your sister describing your scum meta to me and from how you reacted the last time you were scum and more than just one or two players piled onto you.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 159, Sakura Hana wrote:Wow hated? that's why you managed to become a magnet of votes! (joking i know what hated means).
I didn't know Hated/Loved were Normal roles.
As for everyone wondering about the wagon on Varsoon, and Thor's questioning that's Thor being Thor.
A Translation of Thor's intent for those that don't know him:
Thor likes early wagons run up as high as L-1 as soon as possible.
Such wagons can get interesting reactions from other people and the person being wagoned.
Since Varsoon should be a nullread at most for anyone and has the highest ammount of votes, he assumes the only reason someone wouldn't vote him is because of a townread or him, or a scumread on someone else. Hence his questioning.
Notice also that when i said i was townreading the people voting Varsoon some people jumped in to vote in. Me harassing people not voting him as possible scum partners was waiting to see who and how would cave in to pressure. choof became a scumread out of that, Gorky whatchamacallit became a townread instead, antihero im still not sure on, but if he's town he'll become obvious eventually. I agree with pisskop about the replace out being null, but i just can't find it in me to think that his feelings about not knowing what was going on weren't genuine.
Anyway, copper decides to vote Varsoon and leave, not even thoughts, not even reaction about the wagon being formed, so i'm going to go there now.
Unvote
Vote: copper
PEd: Good morning anti
The purpose of a flash wagon is to give the impression you are going to lynch a player and see how others react, I voted there to keep the momentum going after gorkinton and choof stopped it and I had no opinion on Varsoon's alignment at the time, nor was I going to say what I thought about the wagon, that it was a big reaction test, while it was going on as that would defeat it's purpose, what opinions did you have on the wagon?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 166, Gorkington wrote:could have same issue with a doublevoter.
most non-normal thing about it is the neg-utility aspect imo, but i dont think theyd rule against that.
for now i think varsoon's play is more important to look at.
why does towncopper tell anti how he is going to see if hes scum?copper wrote:From your sister describing your scum meta to me and from how you reacted the last time you were scum and more than just one or two players piled onto you.
surprise answer: he doesnt.
get it?
Because it's not something he can control much and he will probably just look awkward if he does and I can't produce that kind of pressure alone so I need that read to be know, get it?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Sakura
1./2. It keeps those you are trying to reaction test wandering what is going on while any scumread I would write on Varsoon would be BS and potentially spoil it, if I gave my other reads in the same post that might distract from the Varsoon wagon and shift the focus to discussing those reads, especially from someone like Choof who was desperately milling around trying to relate and again would not make much sense in the middle of a reaction test.
- Why are you picking out my naked vote in particular?
- Why do you have a nullread on Choof?
Your explaination of why you followed the wagon, because Thor was being Thor, doesn't mean anything, the part about putting pressure I can understand but since joining that wagon was pro-town anyway as it is an easy way to start collecting information, I doubt you can make alignment related statements based on what Anti and I chose to do after what you said, if Varsoon is scum then look at those that did neither join nor post against it for his teammates is the most I can deduce.
3. Other than you and Thor, everyone else played it out in the same way so that goes back to you selecting me in particular.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Sakura
"He could have played it like we did" is a sentence you keep on using and have yet to explain who we are or why the fact I chose to play it differently according to you is scum indicative?
What I saw was a bunch of naked votes and you selecting mine for as of yet unexplained or conflicting reasons, like:"I don't like naked votes", fair enough where's the pressure on Boon, Pisskop, Marquis and Antihero, or are you claiming a naked vote plus fluff filler like a "yo" is less scum indicative?
I have a townlean on silverwolf because there seems to be no narrative attempt from her, more like spontaneous posts based on what is happening and her emotional state which is something town is more likely to do.
@Gorkinton
No empty threat mate, the way you are approaching the game with those cookie cutter scumreads, you are scum because you post a smile, clearly buddying up, you are scum because you answered the question, clearly overexplaining, you are scum because you scumread me back and I am an easy lynch because I was being mean, clearly scum looking for an easy lynch, without any kind of analysis or thought about what the actual content of the posts is and what other different (and I think well explained) motivations I had is useless and dangerous town to leave around or scum looking for superficially scummy BS, either way you are not going to help me win.
VOTE: Gorkinton-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 266, Sakura Hana wrote:Except anti did explain his vote, he wanted me to love him (a.k.a he voted to go with the flow of my reaction test, so null).
pisskop voted with a "hi" or "yo" in this case, on top of that the vote happened before Thor's post or mine which is when i was actually reaction testing people and he did contribute to the whole debate, while you didn't.
Like I don't even know how to reply about the anti thing , I had nothing non game related I could attach to that vote like he did although I am sure you are lovable, and I explained why I did not want to put something game related into it.
I am sorry to burst your bubble but I did not even think about your post and what you claim is your reaction test in that way, at the time I interpreted your post as: "Sakura knows that Thor like to flash wagon and is helping him out", and I got a lean town from it, I believe if you were testing, you were doing so for the wrong thing there because both scum caving into the pressure, scum not affiliated with Varsoon, and town willing to get the most out of Thor's early wagon would join, so how are you going to separate the two, let alone the whole WIFOM you have to sift through anyway about scum noticing your reaction test and posting with that in mind.
Considering I get a lot of emotional outbursts as either alignment, i can tell you that emotion is not indicative of town, and Thor pointed out why it could be faked, or did you miss that too?
You are the one missing things, scum can certainly have emotional outburst, the point I am making about Silverwolf is that her play doesn't seem planned nor self-conscious, those look like posts about how she feels about the game at the time she is reading and scum is more likely to catch-up, pause and think: what's good for me here, and then post. Plus are you trying to say this is a bad read from me and I am not very good or that this read is scum indicative?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Thor
In post 331, Thor665 wrote:In post 330, copper223 wrote:@Thor
The playstile he has used in his town games, grab attention and bait votes, is pretty dangerous as scum and he doesn't seem like the kind to try and mirror himself out of meta awareness, so the fact he was starting to behave in the same way here is what supports the townread.
This sounds really silly to me.
You're saying his playstyle was, functionally, dumb for scum to ever do because it was dangerous.
And surmise that he would not play that was as scum and have a totally different playstyle?
Please tell me I'm not grokking something here, because this sounds shallower than Kanye West's empathy for his fellow artists.
You are ignoring one part of the argument, that I don't think he is the kind to mirror himself. While his playstile is dangerous as scum it makes sense as town, especially in Rome where he comes from, so he would have a purpose to behave in the same way and plan to enter the game accordingly whereas the only advantage of doing the same thing as scum is to look like yourself as town.
Why did you select one part of the answer to criticize? Are you impying the read is made up?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 332, Gorkington wrote:where's the fire copper?
if you're so convinced that I'm scum then why is your passion for pushing me so weak.
i gave you the opportunity to clarify your read on me and you swatted it away.
you havent asked anyone else to look at me or make a case on me, so i ask you, what exactly is it that youre doing with your vote on me right now?
do you want to ask me questions or ask my for clarifications on things or are you just hoping to buy into towncred for the omgus?
Now that you are finally addressing me properly let's continue.
1. I said based on what I have seen of your play you are an excellent PL target, not that I am convinced you are scum, that's BS number 1.
2. You continued to be annoying and if you want to be a dick I'll do the same, with the added bonus that I have little doubt I can get you lynched in the mean time so I don't have to put up with you.
3. You keep attributing emotional states to me to justify your points which you have no clue about, you said I was angry, coy, not passionate enough, I am sure there is some other nonsense in your ISO, where are you getting these information from?
4. The point I made about you is pretty simple, every post you are writing on the copper scumread is about taking what I said and trying to fit it into a category that looks scummy, like buddying, omgus scumreading, overexplaining... as opposed to reading the actual content of the post and deciding on my motivation, it's an abysmal form of scumhunting at best and just as likely a scumtell similar to buzzwording.
5. Why do you think I would get towncred for OMGUS scumreading you?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 346, Thor665 wrote:Yes, i am pretty sure that is what I'm implying which is why I'm asking you to defend the methods you used to create the answer.
Why...is that a problem for some reason?
It's definitely wrong for starters, now I can decide if it's scum wrong or just wrong.
In post 346, Thor665 wrote:How do you divine this conclusion?
You're saying his playstyle was, functionally, dumb for scum to ever do because it was dangerous.
And surmise that he would not play that was as scum and have a totally different playstyle?
Do you see any trace of the mirror estimation in your summary? I thought not, so I don't need to divine anything.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 359, Thor665 wrote:@Gork
Cooper sucks. Sure.
You suck worse for the misrep - I'm on his side on that point.
You are probably scum.-
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@Gorkinton
That is the best possible demonstration of my PL case on you, you are not reading the content of the posts (I ment in the sense of thinking about it but apparently literally as well) but instead trying to buzzword them into something scummy using frankly underhanded strategies like attributing emotional states to me in order to justify your statements.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 376, Gorkington wrote:hi.
i told you to elaborate on that post and you didnt. you get to be a total meanie like this when i misunderstand you and dont ask for clarification.
Ask me properly next time and I will be happy to clarify, although I would assume you are able to read the english language so I still find that post problematic to say the least.
What you did instead was refuse to do so, try to pressure me into replying anyway and call me scum for it, who's the meanie here exactly?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 379, elusive wrote:Copper why pl which is bs why not scum lynch?
He is also my strongest scumread and has the added advantage of being a good lynch even if I am wrong, that's all that PL there means.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 388, Gorkington wrote:so copper, are you consoling yourself on the reasoning behind your vote on me in the off chance im town?
because if so im so coming to get you tonight if i dont get lamelynched today.
Why would you expect that of your scumread? That sounds like you know I am town.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 392, Gorkington wrote:i just softclaimed my main at you.
i hope you realize how skrewed you are now
Ehhhhh?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 395, Gorkington wrote:dont worry about it.
try and get me lynched today if you can.
for tonight, we dine, in heck!
The only player bad enough for you to be an alt of is BBT.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 398, pisskop wrote:You're sweet; hows about your push me if you think Im scum.
I am not sold on this yet, some of your more recent posts I thought were more town indicative.
Thor making statements about the quality of play while FOSing the same players is scummy.-
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In post 425, Thor665 wrote:By these two comments, what I get is that you believe the following;
1. That he has a risky town playstyle.
2. That he isn't good enough/sensible enough/risky enough to copy his town playstyle when playing as scum.
3. That he was town here, due to this.
I am asking you (and am now asking again) WHY THE HELL YOU BELIEVE #2.
If I have #2 wrong - feel free to clarify what you actually meant.
But I am pretty sure I grok your meaning that far, and also am pretty sure that this conclusion popped out of ruddy nowhere - prove me wrong.
Where do you expect me to get that conclusion, it's a judgment call I am making after seeing how he plays.-
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In post 428, Thor665 wrote:Theoretically you spotted a call to make, and applied some sort of judgement to it - describe that process.
The process is the same for every read I make, I try to profile a player based on what he is showing, does he play to win or to have fun, is he calculating or impulsive, does he get lynched often, how good is his knowledge of theory... and then I decide if the mindset he is showing is more likely to be his town mindset or his scum mindset.-
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In post 431, elusive wrote:1. When did you choose to look over choof's game? When he first reacted negatively to the flash wagon.
2. Do you usually look over players' games? If I think it's relevant.
3. What's your favorite color? Blue.
4. Did you or did you not share a scum QT with Choof? No.
5. Do you believe white lies are okay in a relationship, yes or no? Yes-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Thor
You are asking me to describe subconscious routines, how do I suspect if someone is lying to me? It's part of my daily life to asses people and try to figure them out so you develop a skill for it, in choof's case I don't see what he did in the other game and followed up with in this one as coming fron scum, let's say he is a ballsy jokester that will always bait votes on himself, do you think he would be as self conscious as he appeared to get when he thought the rest of us were joking at his expense? If he always plays like that he should be used to any kind of reaction from others, more that shows a kind of arrogance or strong belief in self worth that he can manipulate others at will, that kind of player is not liable to replace in a huff, more likely he would figure out the flash wagon's purpose to begin with, and if not would likely laugh along thinking to himself that the joke is going to be on us in the end, I saw none of that from him so that's why I believe he was town here and developed that particular playstile to try and be helpful in Rome.-
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@Thor
In that sense any tell is gut, you have to interpret what you read so your thought process influences it, I claimed I made that townread with the help of reading his meta, which is what I did, if you want to claim there is another way to use meta that relies less on gut and more on direct comparison of scum vs town meta I agree but that is not what I said, that's you projecting what you think meta cases should be on how I used meta.
@Elusive
Don't worry, I'll still call you obv. town despite your mistakes.
@All
re-reasing tonight because now that I think I know who Gorkinton is and that she was role playing a role tunnelling on me at the start of he day is not unusual and the value of interpreting those blatantly riduculous scumreads goes diwn dramatically cause I know despite pretending to be a dubce here that she is really good.-
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In post 590, Flames of Disaster wrote:No, but Varsoon, you really are a Village Idiot.
If you believe this why are you voting for him?-
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In post 718, copper223 wrote:Sorry guys, can't keep up and do this game justice, have fun!
@mod: replacing out, sorry!
@mod: Forget about this, I'll try to post when I have time but I'll have to figure out a different way to play this game cause my usual style is too time consuming.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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Plus I have seen the same blend of supposed tunnelling towards Varsoon and Pisskop from you on davesaz when you played that horrible game with the heartless hydra, it is hard to say here because you have legitimate reasons to push on Varsoon and I was the first to say Pisskop looked scummy (still does), but that read really came out of the blue for me.
@Sakura
Since when is being aware odpf the setup a towntell?-
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I don't need your town meta to decide if this looks like the same anti that was scum in the other game, I read you scum and Mastin as SK at the end of D1 and you laughed at me because funnily enough according to the scum QT you thought Mastin was town, unfortunately your sister was playing super town to throw me off. The fact you are getting better at copying your town meta is a problem for those that played with the old anti, I don't have a baseline on your town game so it's irrelevant.
What made you think my slot was more likely scum than not?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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I told you what I think of Varsoon, I was one of the first that agreed it was looking like a fakeclaim 292 because his whole talk about judging him for his play as opposed to his claim and trying to downplay the value of claims in general sounded to me like him either rationalizing the bad play he had just made or preemptively defending himself in case he was forced to admit it was a fakeclaim. Having played with him and knowing he can be flighty with claims I am inclinded to believe he is town, with no great degree of confidence.
As for Gorkinton, I don't know what to think of him or which male player would tell me I am screwed with any degree of authority, some have tricked me when they were scum and I was town but I have yet to lose as scum and the closest I have come is to TTH or Mollie, both female.
He said himself he was roleplaying a character, I don't know what he was going for but it must be a dumb character from the change in posting, so what exactly pings you about me recognizing there was something off with those reads?-
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@Thor
He may have changed his mind, I read 771 and agree with the general idea, it's not the rethoric, it's the you must be scum stance he initially had which he then abandonded for a while to pursue Pisskop and came back to later, if you are committed to LaL you stick to it, you don't go hardcore, then when the wagon is waning you discard it only to pick it up again later.-
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In post 809, Sakura Hana wrote:copper's push on obvtown anti is not sitting well with me, specially with the argument "his scum game has improved".
Interesting post, when has he become obv. town and how did you manage to translate tunneling in a way that doesn't seem genuine and being opportunistic on who he is pushing scum on to "he improved his scum game", which is not part of my scumread but rather my reply to House who seems like he is not willing to consider Anti scum "cause he would suck", misrep much?-
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@Varsoon
Since you used that card you might as well tell us what you are now claiming unless you claim you can confirm yourself without giving your exact role away tomorrow or you claim there is a good reason not to do so today, it was in the back of my mind that it could be a panic reaction of a role getting run-up, but what Marquis posted about you saying everything that you possibly can to not get lynched also makes sense.-
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@Sakura
Your initial reaction to my Anti scumread was that you stand by your initial read of Anti investigating the Varsoon roleclaim which is more likely to be Anti town, I already asked about why you think being aware of the setup and thus being the first to catch the lie is more likely to be a towntell so if you could answer that it would make me happy, and because of meta. The way you replied made me think you considered the possibility of Anti scum and decided you thought he was more likely to be town. Forward a few pages and now, without any meaningful comtribution from Anti you switched to having him as obv. town and apparently forgot about my initial case.
My case is that his tunnel on Varsoon may be fake because he starts with a very inflexible position, you are not hated so you must be scum, die, appeared to change his mind (at the time I thought he read my post about not only scum fakeclaiming and thought about it as well, but he later said he was scumreading my slot so I don't see why he would give particular weight to my thoughts) which now looks like leaving Varsoon alone because the wagon was stalling, only to jump up on it again when it was renewed by others, the Pisskop scumread is once again jumping on someone that Anti knows at least one player considers scummy cause I already said so myself, once again I thought we might be reading the game similarly but that scumread on my slot changed that, and is based on Pisskop being rude and unlikeable because he is using ad hominem and AtE's more than him being actually scummy. Finally he scumreads my slot when he thinks there is noone there to defend it, and considering he either sheeped or read at least 2 times (Varsoon arrow 3 to 4 and Pisskop) the game in the same way I did I find that read pretty opportunistic and he has yet to convince me he genuinely believed it.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5449
- Joined: September 21, 2014
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5449
- Joined: September 21, 2014