Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

sup nerds and Transcend

Catching up

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Uhh Lapsa's avatar is a cheetah not a dog

I think he was not being serious about not liking masons.
This is the scum on his wagon
VOTE: Elbirn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

magnets

death
Alisae, Sonia, Titus
#86

repairman cephrir
Cloudkicker, Cabd
#136-#137

stalked

#141 Transcend > Cloudkicker

Elbirn: Okay so alisae pine and cabd are all town

#99 immutability

#143 ssbm, Transcend ?

#147 Transcend > Elbirn

CloudKicker - Sonia, Titus, Elbirn, Pine

#150 Cabd - kicker ??? uzi
#154

Cabd -> CloudKicker

power wagon

grudge matching

transcummoned aj

outside game meta
sonia, kicker

How is this post supposed to be read? What do the > signs mean? Are they arrows or actual greater than symbols? If arrows what do they indicate? Buddying?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ssbm is town

Sticking by it

I assume this is based on meta? If not plz explain shit.

I always start my games with Transcend by saying "Sup nerds and Transcend" and he can no longer resist my wiles

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Scum don't have daytalk in normal games unless it is either announced by the mod in the setup or there is an encryptor. I think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That exchange read to me as lapsa asking Tywin to prove that alisaee is not an alt, I sure hope it wasn't lapsa asking Tywin to prove he was at work lol

[ssbm_Kyouko]

(Pine Alisae SSBM Lapsa) townreads I'm happy with.

We've got hangups on Lapsa.

We got two cws to him in addition to him autoobjecting to your mason claim.

Mason claim was a yolk btw, you did see that later on right? Lapsa, do you really dislike Masons? If so, why?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think that gladiator thing is real is it? I thought it would be an interesting role idea, like a town/scum gladiator or duelist or something who resets VCs and forces all players to only be able to vote between the first time I saw someone declare a 1v1. I don't think that's a real role though, just a theme that pops up from time to time when people are like "I'd stake my life on him being scum so only vote me or him"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think it's in the list of approved roles for a normal game according to the wiki at least, although normals are sometimes allowed 1 abnormal role or maybe 2 in a large. Idk I don't see it being legit

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh so it is a real role already just not normal, neat.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

show that he actually scumread uzi and whatnot

Could be distancing, don't think such an assumption is correct here yet. Looking at the two together in ISO it's weird the way LUV just ignored it the whole way through, because even though the gladiator claim was fake, the concerns Elbirn raised about the reason LUV was keeping his vote on him were valid, but LUV doesn't respond in a way that should satisfy town!Elbirn if he is actually SRing LUV. This is more AI of Elbirn than LUV though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ssbn, what do you think of Lannister and Alisae?

Haven't developed anything strong on Tywin yet.
Alisae seems sheepy so far.

I'm drinking right now though and have only been skimming on my phone most of the day so I'll get somewhere with these later

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You seen to be latching onto Titus and the blonde girl I think her name is sonia

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The hugging thing or whatever back on like page 3 or 4 can't remember when they were introducing themselves or something

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like in the 80s range

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Elbrin, what were you attempting to accomplish with the fake gladiate?

Stirring the pot. More than establishing that "yeah I scumread this fool", I like to see how people respond. I was gonna be nice actually and reveal that it was fake and save everyone some grief, cuz no one even noticed or cared and everyone knew it was fake, including uzi? But then you seemed convinced/concerned it was real so I kept playing at it.

I'll need to go reread all of that mess to see what I think about it. Protip I do this in like every game on day 1.

show that he actually scumread uzi and whatnot

Could be distancing, don't think such an assumption is correct here yet. Looking at the two together in ISO it's weird the way LUV just ignored it the whole way through, because even though the gladiator claim was fake, the concerns Elbirn raised about the reason LUV was keeping his vote on him were valid, but LUV doesn't respond in a way that should satisfy town!Elbirn if he is actually SRing LUV. This is more AI of Elbirn than LUV though

...Show me where I gave any indication of being satisfied.

The abruptness with which you lose interest in pushing LUV after he fails to produce a better reason than "I think it's pretty obvious why you're being scum read but if it wasn't, please refer to Sonia's 85" is what makes me think there isn't real suspicion of LUV coming from you. You just say you're underwhelmed and call his next reason a "classic meme" but don't actually push back. I feel like if you were really so suspicious of him you would call his reason for keeping his vote on you weak or scummy

ssbn doesn't feel like town like he did in the other game we played but maybe cause I was scum in that game and it was easy to tell
gut sr though.

Is MariaR your alt? I only have one completed game on site and only one of the scum from that game was female. I think you have me confused with someone else.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh hi. If it was easy to tell I was town that game Transcend wouldn't have mislynched me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kk getting back to those Tywin and Alisae reads now that I'm sober.
Leaning Town on Alisae, not as sheepy as I thought, that was just the word I used last night to describe her very early play involving the introductions and all. I think the only sheepy vote she had was on Lapsa After she dropped the catposting things looked a lot better from her.
Tywin the play looks scummy so far, could wagon that if he keeps on the way he is and the right people are voting him, but not right now.

There are scum here in the bold:

Votecount 1.3

Lapsa 5 (

Pine

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

, Alisae,

Elbirn

)

So my vote will stay here until all the bold look town or someone else scums up the thread.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah, looked fine on ISO at least. Do you have a reason to think it's not?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright when I asked you what you thought was wrong with Alisae I went back and reread page 10 onwards and realized I didn't follow you guys arguing last night at all once I got to like page 15-17 or so.

Stop walling

Love,

Me

Stop posting useless fluff and contribute.

I don't think this is useless at all.

Later reasons given for this post don't make sense. The decision to TR someone based on them not liking wallposts is arbitrary and is more like looking for a reason to TR someone whose alignment is confirmed to you already.

Why would it make you concerned? Why not react with that concern immediately? Why wait until after I question you?

It makes me concerned because it seems so early to be using it off of something that I feel is not very big. Yes, he is avoiding the question, but Eblrin overeacted to that. And that makes me concerned.
I didn't react to it right away because I didn't know what to make of it. And I didn't know what to make of it because a Gladiator is something I have never seen before. So I was caught off-guard.

BTW you're making me think you're town. Thats a good thing. Mew.

Didn't like the conversation about the gladiator business but it reads as though it could be due to her inexperience so I wouldn't call that part AI. I agree though that she has been fishing for opinions a lot and her Gamma vote looked like it was actually sheeping Nero, not that I disagree with that vote in particular. The reason she gives for her intial SR on you, Titus, looks bad. She said you haven't been evaluating the game I think, but the shift to a TR looks like it could be defensive.

I don't think you're crazy this game fwiw, but you're still in my lynchpool. You've just brought Alisae back into my sights.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ebwop: didn't mean to imply that I agreed that her Gamma vote looked like it was a sheep vote because I don't think anyone else pointed that out. I agree that she's been fishing for opinions. I also think that her Gamma vote looked like it was sheeping Nero.

Yeah Elbrin hasn't lost interest in pursuing LUV.

I'll believe this when I see it resolved in a believable fashion

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But you see how an outsider could also see scum!Alisae is being pushed by town!Titus and decides to attempt to divert Titus by giving her a TR?

Is there a particular reason you think townies don't like wall posts, or was it arbitrary/intuition?

pedit:AI means alignment indicative btw, not just alignment. Saw it used to mean just alignment in an earlier post too I think so pointing it out now.

Also you're blowing up the gladiator claim. Check the wiki, it's a possible role in this setup even though it's not an explicitly normal role. Titus claiming it's a regular role is NAI. I don't think Titus's moonbrain would take the claim seriously until she saw the mod confirm it, at least mine wouldn't
As far as I can tell Titus isn't lying

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh sorry my 430 was addressed at Alisae but then I saw Tywin's wallpost and replied in the pedit, so if I could still get a reply from Alisae on the top part of it that'd be chill. Like I said I've seen you do it more than once so that's why I pointed it out. I obviously know what you meant, not trying to argue over the acronyms.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Since it's come up again I'll actually quote the wiki and link the page if you guys want to verify
"Mechanical changes which must be announced beforehand include:
Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand."
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

We don't know if Mafia have an encryptor or not so we don't know if there's daytalk because the mod did not announce it. The mod is obligated to announce if there will be daytalk

without

an encryptor in a Normal Game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Rather, his vote is RVS and drama at best.

Hmm. This doesn't look like RVS to me. The reasoning is thin but not random.

I think Lapsa is town unless he is getting bussed but there's no way I'd know that so he's prob town and there's likely scum voting him. Part of me thinks Cabd and Pine might actually be less likely to be scum so scum have a buffer before voting him.

vote:Gamma

oh! The lapsa wagon was not Cabd, Pine, Gamma it was Pine, Gamma, Titus. Horay I get to lynch scum Titus again.

vote:Titus

Reading his posts together you can see he thinks scum has a buffer on the wagon and that's why he picks you because you're third. He was voting Gamma when he thought Gamma was the third on the wagon, as soon as he realized Cabd wasn't voting Lapsa he moved his vote to you. An obvious, but flimsy reason, unless he's keeping deeper reasons to himself.

Still a good vote though because there's at least 1 scum in those 5 players, maybe 2 if this is multiball

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lapsa, Pine, SSBM, Alisae.

Do you have any objections to the other three names next to you?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Pine and Alisae. I understand why you've put Pine there but don't agree with it yet. Won't judge him until I see some more but he looks okay enough so far.
Alisae ended up on the wrong wagon at the wrong time so she's on my list now. Pine being the first vote and it being a page 1 vote make me think his vote is not the scummy one on that wagon.

@SSK, Drawing names out of a hat and voting me is a random vote. Stretching to say otherwise is not a good look. It's what my moon logic expected though.

I think that's a misrep of what happened but I'll wait on NC's catch-up to go further with this, maybe that was all his vote was. It didn't look that way to me though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The mafia in this game do have daytalk without an encryptor. I will add this to the rules; apologies.

*gasp*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lapsa seems to be genuinely evaluating the game, but I feel off about this because of his earlier posts that caused a wagon on him.

Lapsa's earlier posts about masons made him look like lynchbait. This is why Nero, Transcend and I are watching those 5 voters, because scum try to push lynchbait early when it feels like they can get away with it.
Speaking of Lapsa and masons, I don't think he ever answered this and he's here now so

Lapsa, do you really dislike Masons? If so, why?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

alsjdlsakjdlsa

oops we puked out 20 pages

[ssbm_Kyouko]

okay I know you're reading this Lapsa

Answer 500

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think

Elbirn is town

K no one cares

Lynch aj

VOTE: AJ

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am specifically talking about http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67071

I can't think of any games where town Titus ignores me and then tries to wave off my vote as vindictive or something.

I'm reading this Street Fighter mafia Titus + Nero combined ISO and I don't think this is the same situation. Looks like you had a real reason to push her in that game, where she was contradicting herself in a couple of places about a wagon on Beeboy and where she wasn't defending her TR or something like that. I don't usually look at past games as evidence but I decided to this time for reasons.

Alisae, Titus, Gamma: What are your reads on the other 2 players in this list?

VOTE: Alisae
This looks scum, the buddying is stinky and she continues to sit around asking others for their opinions on situations. I don't like the show of solidarity with the Aj wagon to so quickly jump off of it. Too much fence-sitting and sheeping from this slot, and is now not voting 34 pages in.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What about not voting is scummy to you?

Not voting as town implies you have no serious scumreads. 34 pages in town should have enough reads to either sheep a wagon that is comprised of townreads or to push a strong scumread.

I noticed you voted Gamma as soon as I accused you, so I checked back on your old Gamma vote and came up with this:

Titus are ya able to articulate what those feelings are exactly?

VOTE: GammaEmerald
I'll just leave this here until I'm satisfied with you.

You moved your vote pretty quick after this to Nero when they started pushing Titus. Not sure if it's buddying town or chainsawing for your partner but either way it points to you being scum.

Okay but your read is swayed a bit too easily.

Ditto, this has seemingly been the case with all of your reads so far. You are forming reads to conform with popular belief imo. You 180d on Transcend really fast and sheeped him when me and Titus followed him. You also earlier arbitrarily TRed him for not liking walls, then went to vote him immediately when he started a wagon on Aj. After I voted Aj and Transcend called your vote on him stupid you flipped and sheeped him.

Okay but who said I fully believed in lynching you?

So, do you, or don't you fully believe in lynching the player you are now currently voting, and why?

Spoiler:

inb4 you feel that Gamma is "genuinely evaluating the game"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus who is your strongest TR, reasons are not necessary. This isn't a trick question

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What about not voting is scummy to you?

Not voting as town implies you have no serious scumreads. 34 pages in town should have enough reads to either sheep a wagon that is comprised of townreads or to push a strong scumread.

This is fair. In that case I'ma quickly do my reads real quickly. But I wanna see what Tywin has to say to Titus before I decide to vote him, cause right now I have good reason to, it's just I know Tywin, and I feel like I can identify if he is town or not.

So if you have good reason to vote Tywin and are only voting Gamma for pressure, why not vote the player you are more suspicious of? From what I've heard you have one game of experience with Tywin where you were both town and I don't think this is enough to be as confident as you seem to be in sorting Tywin.

I noticed you voted Gamma as soon as I accused you, so I checked back on your old Gamma vote and came up with this:

Titus are ya able to articulate what those feelings are exactly?

VOTE: GammaEmerald
I'll just leave this here until I'm satisfied with you.

You moved your vote pretty quick after this to Nero when they started pushing Titus. Not sure if it's buddying town or chainsawing for your partner but either way it points to you being scum.

A couple of questions. A. Do you think Nero saying that Titus is scum without reading what he missed seem wierd to you? To me it seemed like he didn't even care about what happened prior. He had no new reasons to think that Titus was scum until after I started questioning him, which he and Titus then supplied the reasons while that was happening.
B. How do you know it's not just my playstyle? Because it is, you want a game where most of the time I defended someone else it was a chainsaw defence and I was town? Tywin was in that game too.
C. What do you see Titus as currently?
Because if you see her as town, then me chainsawing someone you think is town does not make sense to me. Or this whole line could just be a line filled with retarded logic.

A. I reread this exchange just in case and I think Nero is towny to continue to push his strongest SR. I understand that Titus doesn't agree with why he's pushing her, and could see her reaction to the push as towny. It's still very dismissive but I think this is the result of a personality quirk in Titus. He isn't ignoring the rest of the game either, he's catching up as he discusses his Titus SR. See 831.
B. I don't know if it's your playstyle or not, which is why I'm voting you. I'm not going to assume that you always play anti-town (buddying, sheeping, handing out excessive TRs) when you're town based off of one game I didn't even participate in.
C. Titus is probably town. Even if she is scum though, your actions revolving around her could be seen as a chainsaw defence. I'm more inclined to think you're buddying town!Titus.

Okay but your read is swayed a bit too easily.

Ditto, this has seemingly been the case with all of your reads so far. You are forming reads to conform with popular belief imo. You 180d on Transcend really fast and sheeped him when me and Titus followed him. You also earlier arbitrarily TRed him for not liking walls, then went to vote him immediately when he started a wagon on Aj. After I voted Aj and Transcend called your vote on him stupid you flipped and sheeped him.

Okay but who said I fully believed in lynching you?

So, do you, or don't you fully believe in lynching the player you are now currently voting, and why?

Spoiler:

inb4 you feel that Gamma is "genuinely evaluating the game"

LOL that last part. But I am mostly voting Gamma for pressure. However when it comes to Gamma, I'll stay on this wagon until I see them play the game. Much like why I hopped on the AJ wagon. I wanna see him play the game, I wanna see him give analysis on people. I want to see him do town things.
I will lynch Gamma if he doesn't do anything townish.

Seems like you're discussing a policy lynch 2 days into D1. Are you talking about deadline lynching him or sooner?

Spoiler:

Also I spoiled it because it was a joke so glad you found it funny

Meh, might as well update my reads on nerds now.
{Titus, Trans, Cadb, Elbrin, Me, SSBM, Lapsa, Cloudd} <--- I think these people are town.
{Nero}
{Aj}
{Nos, Moz, Sonia} <--- Null/can go either way/need to re-look over and revist.
{Pine, Uzi} <--- Reads that are getting stale
{Tywin, Gamma} <--- My lynch pool.

Lots of players in your top tier, which is the most town to you?

@Titus - My bad, didn't realize you'd already been asked.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Alisae - "Me because of my role pm says so." Serious answer please. If you think that was a serious answer then who's your second-strongest TR?
pedit: jk

@Titus:
Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

I usually don't do these, but I'm assuming you asked me for a good reason. There are 2 townleans above and below my lynch line because some of these are in my no vote zone and others are not. Cabd would be townlean on the bottom side of the line if he wasn't in your list of top TRs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And if I was scum, what would scum me have to gain from chainsaw defending Titus?

Towncred...

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nothing else to ask for now but I also need sleep. Might do specifics about where I think there's buddying and sheeping and fencesitting tomorrow though.

You're doing ok for now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pine lurking too. Some of this is a product of how explosive this thread has been over the weekend, guessing a lot of the players have M-F jobs or are students on christmas holiday.

Or are sick stuck at home like this guy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

it annoys me to no end that I have posted, multiple times, why I think Titus is scum and both Ali and Elbrin are acting like it never happened.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm waiting for the other cases. I know you and Noz as stated theirs.

Nero and who? Nosferatu hasn't posted anything about Titus being scum afaik

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My old avatar will return after christmas, most likely. Might do a different pic of her.

Lapsa was it you that was going to case Titus today or was it the other way around? I think both of you said you'd case the other actually so dazzle me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Toshinou Kyouko

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It does, and the second part is the girl in my avatar, same person as my last avatar

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Town: Cabd, SSBM, Cloud, Nero

Pro Town: Elibirn (see Uzi below), Sonia, mozamis, Lapsa

Null: Transcend, Gamma, AJ, Pine

Pro scum: Alisae, Nosferatu, Uzi (Uzi or Elibirn could change sides based on the flip of the other)

Scum: Titus

Do you see Titus and Alisae as scum together and does Alisae's behavior affect your read on Titus at all? Can you explain why Nero is so high on your list?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think for her being your top SR you aren't paying enough attention to what Titus is posting

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kk getting back to those Tywin and Alisae reads now that I'm sober.
Leaning Town on Alisae, not as sheepy as I thought, that was just the word I used last night to describe her very early play involving the introductions and all. I think the only sheepy vote she had was on Lapsa After she dropped the catposting things looked a lot better from her.
Tywin the play looks scummy so far, could wagon that if he keeps on the way he is and the right people are voting him, but not right now.

There are scum here in the bold:

Votecount 1.3

Lapsa 5 (

Pine

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

, Alisae,

Elbirn

)

So my vote will stay here until all the bold look town or someone else scums up the thread.

Why not Alisae? I can see how you formatted as I'm posting.

FOS: ssbm

At the time of this post I had reason to believe Alisae was town, so by PoE there's scum in the other 4. That format was intended to show both that the wagon was my initial pool and that Alisae was eliminated from that pool. I hadn't looked closely enough at her yet. Currently that pool is {Pine, Gamma, Alisae}.

I think for her being your top SR you aren't paying enough attention to what Titus is posting

????

Titus gave out a series of town reads, sheeped onto a bunch of wagons. I called her scum. She ignored me. I called her out on ignoring me. She waved off my vote on her as being vindictive, She put a case on Tywin for "lying" and has promised a case on Lapsa. Is this an accurate potrayl of her actions this game? What have I ignored that should comment on?

Titus has given a reasonable amount of TRs imo. I don't think her votes have been sheep votes onto a bunch of wagons. I would ignore you as either alignment for the reasons you provided for SRing her. You pushed too hard on one of the 5 players on the Lapsa wagon too quickly. You seem to be ignoring Pine, Gamma, Alisae, and Elbirn at the time that you start asking players for their Titus reads, when they should all be in your scope still, assuming that you are voting Titus for the reason you gave at the time of the vote. Tywin did lie, but it was due to a misunderstanding. She hasn't been online since promising a case on Lapsa. I can't make you see it if you haven't noticed it already.

@Alisae - quit telling Tywin to use fewer words. Take the time to read what he's saying, it's not like it's difficult.
@Tywin - In 1056 you indicate that there's a possibility that instead of it being scum!Titus and scum!Alisae it could be town!Titus and scum!Alisae. You don't indicate you think it could be scum!Titus and town!Alisae though, so why not vote Alisae instead?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why are you concerned about multiball?

I looked at archived Large Normals because I wanted to know how many mafia I should expect to see in this game. I've never played a game of this size before and didn't want to ask in the thread because that looks like a forced townslip. I noticed there were a lot of multiball games in the recent archive

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cloud, Nero hard SRs Titus, she's not one of his TRs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you acknowledge there's a lower chance that Titus is scum than Alisae but still vote Titus? Alisae is the one buddying and sheeping Titus, not the other way around. I just don't understand how you can suspect both of them and decide Titus is the better lynch

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh yeah, I know I can't do that AJ. If I was scum, I gotta commit to the buddy. Otherwise I'm just killing myself. And at this point, I see nothing stopping the townies from forming a wagon on me.

WIFOM and AtE in one post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Votecount [b

UNOFFICAL[/b]]Gamma Emerald 3 (Cabd, Elbirn, Titus)
Titus 5 (Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister, Lapsa, mozamis, Alisae)
Alisae 3 (Nosferatu, ssbm_Kyouko, Aj The Epic,)
Aj The Epic 1 (Transcend)
xSoniaNevermindx 1 (Gamma Emerald)
Lapsa 1 (Pine)

Not Voting 2 (xSoniaNevermindx, Lil Uzi Vert)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

The mod will be V/LA tomorrow.

updated unofficial VC^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

speaking of the VC do you have any suspects LUV? You implied you were caught up earlier

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko, thoughts on Sonia and Uzi?

They aren't bothering me aside from not voting. I haven't looked very closely at Sonia yet though so I think I'll do that now. LUV is the lurkier of the two I feel. Also forgot to post that Cloud is also currently not voting in that unofficial VC.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What lie? Omg you're seriously the most full of shit player I've seen on these forums. What lie? You throw that word around a lot, but you are completely full of it and have no ability to pull your head out of it. It's really irritating to have someone call another a liar without reason or actual thought. You are a real train wreck when your flaws are pointed out. I'll be really glad when you're lynched. You can take the liar thing to the dead thread. You're the real liar here.

So I've been noticing a theme where you 2 call each other liars a lot so I'm just going to point out where your lies are because Titus doesn't seem to care enough to point them out herself. The one time she did point it out you argued semantics and context when her statement was explicit and not left up to interpretation based on context.

AJ picks the easiest players to call scum here. That's not a real analysis. He simply went with the two players most won't disagree with in a way that requires explaining. AJ hasn't done anything all game as far as I've seen, unless I missed something between the last 12 pages (will catch up soon regardless). The guy is skating by and is half-hearting these bs reads.

AJ: why am I scum? Why is Alisae scum? Why do you have two scum reads, but can't seem to get reads on more than half the game? Please explain all the reads you half heartedly slapped together.

Yeah, this is a load of crock. Tywin scum attacking AJ not in a bus, definitely suggests AJ scum is wrong.

The melidramatic falsehoods are a theme here. AJ Tywin likely doesn't work.

AJs post is okay. You shouldn't expect someone to give you all of their reads like that for no reason. Titus is pointing out that you 2 aren't a scumteam here.

Oh, and Nero is high on my list due to him being one of the very few (me/Lapsa/Nero?) in-game to really question or go after Titus and her motivations. She was being put on a pedestal by Alisae and Elibrin, and others were sheeping her. She's been going after bad wagons consistently, but when only a few players question it, then it's likely due to her being scum. Easy wagons are usually scum driven, and Titus has pushed them all.

The wagons that Titus has been on have not been easy besides Lapsa and Gamma. Neither of those players individually appear town to me, but the Lapsa wagon probably had scum on it because it was the first big wagon.

You and I have very different definitions of a lair, Titus. Can you lay out why exactly you feel Tywin should be a major scum read of mine? As for Alisae; not discussing it right now; you don't see it.

Anyone who makes up what I said and when confronted with evidence it's not true doesn't back down.

VOTE: AJ

I'm still catching up, but I just noticed this. What 'evidence' did you post to prove I somehow lied?

Gladiator thing was null and not really part of my scum read of you aside from the fact that yes, you DID claim it was normal. Your claim is that you said it was real, but that's not how it fit in the context of those posts. The question was 'is gladiator a normal role' not 'is gladiator a real role.' You're shade throwing and completely full of it to even insinuate I lied there.

You're pushing an insanely asinine read on me, because you don't have a case and never did. You never will, because I'm town. You will never be able to prove anything that is false, regardless of your terrible logic and emotional appeals to other players. It's quite the straw man. You trying to 'lead' town I to mislynches will ultimately be your downfall. You are scum and you know I'm on to you.

What was the other claimed lie? That you didn't ask me questions? I asked you to repeat them in a subsequent post, since I never once found any questions from you. Your response was to say 'but I did ask! You lie! Oh, but I don't need questions to read you.'

That was it. You never ONCE reposted any questions, so without actual proof, I will continue to say you didn't. Following that, I propose to call you the liar here. You're lying about me and misrepresenting the entire sequence of events to twist into me being scummy. People aren't stupid and can read, unfortunately for you. Try again scum. Misrepresent some more. By your own definition, it means you're a liar yourself. Foot in mouth disease. i hope it isn't contagious.

Bolded are where Titus is calling you a liar. The Gladiator thing you should have reevaluated when you went back and read that she said it was real, not that she said it was normal. That's where this should have stopped, but you've been perpetuating it.

She was also claiming you lied about her never asking questions as seen here:

Titus: why haven't you asked me a single question? Why do you continue to ask others to comment on me while you refuse to sort me directly yourself? Are you hoping a wagon forms on me that you can hop on, otherwise why haven't you voted me if you think I'm scum? Why vote Alisae for asking you to explain yourself when throwing shade on me? Do you truly believe my lil Uzi 'it's only fair' comment is a scum tell? I sure as hell don't believe that. It's weak and contrived. We both know that already though.

The bolded below sure look like questions to me

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

Uzi

Then why are you treating Uzi with kid gloves?

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I'll let him answer. I've missed questions before as town (missed yours a few times last game), so it's entirely possible he missed them. I don't think he can miss it now, so next post or two from him should give a better read.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus is the player that called 4 players the scum team

Also listing 4 scumreads does not make them the scumteam. There are always nulls involved that could be scum and I don't recall her specifcally saying scumteam ever

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: pine going back there

Hey don't you start playing anti-town now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Tywin
I'm not defending bad play. You're trying to misrepresent the things Titus is saying, and when confronted with quotes you are ignoring the fact that you have been misrepresenting her.

@Cloud - you're at least half right b/c Titus is town, but one or both of Tywin and Alisae are scum here. I wanted to stay on Alisae of the two because she was on the Lapsa wagon. Also I think it is not pro-town to park your vote on an inactive slot. There are things happening right now that you could be influencing better if you were voting a relevant wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Alisae - I've been trying to figure out if only one or both of you are scum by convincing you to vote each other. Tywin was close to the bottom of my reads list when I last gave it; I'm not in the habit of defending my SRs. I prefer to talk to them until they talk themselves into or out of a corner, and either lynch them or let them go depending on how I feel about them after the discussion.

Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It also seemed like he was attacking me because I was on the Lapsa wagon. Like, I dunno, it just seems to fit into place so well, maybe it's just I dunno how to explain it.

I had a heightened suspicion of you because you were on the Lapsa wagon. Your behavior today has been anti-town. Tywin's I've been going back and forth on a bit until recently. He hasn't shown any signs of backing down when presented with evidence showing why his argument is wrong. This is scummy. He also displayed unusual logic when I asked him why he was voting Titus and not you, which is why I'm still considering the possibility that you are both scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gonna update reads now. Kyouko I'm not buying

{Cloud} <--- Will not lynch this.
{Trans, Cabd, Elbrin, Me, AJ}
{Nero}
{Sonia, Gamma}
{Nos, Uzi, Titus, Moz} <--- Null/can go either way/need to re-look over and revist.
{Pine} <--- Stale read I am really annoyed with
{SSBM} <--- Something I could very much so be overeacting to and going crazy over.
{Tywin} <--- Where my vote is.

Are you caught up?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Scum don't have daytalk in normal games unless it is either announced by the mod in the setup or there is an encryptor. I think.

out of curiousity, did the mod announce daytalk after this post or just no one read ruleset?

He announced and edited the rules after I pointed to the wiki, you'll see later as you catch up

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mod is v/la today according to 890 but I can unofficial again

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Unofficial VC

Titus 3 (Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister, mozamis)
Alisae 2 (Aj The Epic, Elbirn)
Aj The Epic 1 (Transcend)
Lapsa 1 (Pine)
Tywin 4 (Titus, Gamma, Alisae, ssbm_Kyouko)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatus)

Not Voting 5 (Lapsa, Cabd, xSoniaNevermindx, Lil Uzi Vert, CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Did this on my phone but I think it's accurate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alisae and Kyouko need to be revisited. That should be the next course of action. So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing, so I think bouncing onward for now is worth while. Both Kyouko and Alisae have been suspect in the last few pages for various reasons and out of the list of people available to be looked into, these two make the most sense for scum.

I think I see how an outsider could see that but instead of telling everyone else to do it for you why don't you start revisiting us yourself? Start a discussion and people will talk, this whole game isn't Titus vs. Tywin.

No, Tywin is red-green colorblind and so you can't get into his head and vice versa.

This looks like arguing semantics tbh and if I see a Tywin scumflip I'll be back for you. I appreciate that you're wanting to detox this game but there have been plenty of opportunities for Tywin to read the posts that quote him saying one thing and show that another thing was actually said.

I'm done with this shit.

Dayvig: Tywin Lannister

Shame this didn't turn out to be real, unless mod didn't want to lock the thread from phone

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot.

SSM is town. I like the other 3 scumreads.

Lapsa is a decent read and I get why you'd think I'm scum I think, but I'm not. Why Moz?

I'm cheering because you're a hypocrite. And I have a TR on both Titus and AJ fyi
I do love all these idiots shouting "town v town!" though.

We all know how good you are with killing townies Gamma.

Kek, that's ongoing but funny

Titus, for me, I just don't like when Kyouko hopped on the Tywin wagon.
Like, this whole game I feel like he's been chainsawing Lapsa. He's mostly been going after people on the Lapsa wagon. And I don't see why when he's giving Lapsa a nullscum read. It would make sense if he's trying to get towncred from Lapsa, but he thinks Lapsa is nullscum.
And he's not doing that much to stand out, he's sorta just under the radar while appear to be doing town things. I don't like it.

Expand more with citations please.

Posts being referenced. The higher the quote is, the more recent it is.

Spoiler:

@Alisae - I've been trying to figure out if only one or both of you are scum by convincing you to vote each other. Tywin was close to the bottom of my reads list when I last gave it; I'm not in the habit of defending my SRs. I prefer to talk to them until they talk themselves into or out of a corner, and either lynch them or let them go depending on how I feel about them after the discussion.

Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

VOTE: Tywin
I'm not defending bad play. You're trying to misrepresent the things Titus is saying, and when confronted with quotes you are ignoring the fact that you have been misrepresenting her.

@Cloud - you're at least half right b/c Titus is town, but one or both of Tywin and Alisae are scum here. I wanted to stay on Alisae of the two because she was on the Lapsa wagon. Also I think it is not pro-town to park your vote on an inactive slot. There are things happening right now that you could be influencing better if you were voting a relevant wagon.

@Alisae - "Me because of my role pm says so." Serious answer please. If you think that was a serious answer then who's your second-strongest TR?
pedit: jk

@Titus:
Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

I usually don't do these, but I'm assuming you asked me for a good reason. There are 2 townleans above and below my lynch line because some of these are in my no vote zone and others are not. Cabd would be townlean on the bottom side of the line if he wasn't in your list of top TRs.

Lapsa seems to be genuinely evaluating the game, but I feel off about this because of his earlier posts that caused a wagon on him.

Lapsa's earlier posts about masons made him look like lynchbait. This is why Nero, Transcend and I are watching those 5 voters, because scum try to push lynchbait early when it feels like they can get away with it.
Speaking of Lapsa and masons, I don't think he ever answered this and he's here now so

Lapsa, do you really dislike Masons? If so, why?

kk getting back to those Tywin and Alisae reads now that I'm sober.
Leaning Town on Alisae, not as sheepy as I thought, that was just the word I used last night to describe her very early play involving the introductions and all. I think the only sheepy vote she had was on Lapsa After she dropped the catposting things looked a lot better from her.
Tywin the play looks scummy so far, could wagon that if he keeps on the way he is and the right people are voting him, but not right now.

There are scum here in the bold:

Votecount 1.3

Lapsa 5 (

Pine

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

, Alisae,

Elbirn

)

So my vote will stay here until all the bold look town or someone else scums up the thread.

Uhh Lapsa's avatar is a cheetah not a dog

I think he was not being serious about not liking masons.
This is the scum on his wagon
VOTE: Elbirn

867 Is where he references his reads. Notice the nullscum read on Lapsa. And at this point, I've been saying that I thought Lapsa was town. I also recall him not trying to fight my townread on Lapsa. I forgot which post it was, but it was post 860 when he asks what my strongest townreads are. So I feel like he was okay with me reading Lapsa as town at the time, cause he didn't really try to fight me on it. In fact, I don't recall him fighting me on any of my reads like you have been.

Kyouko's even confirming in 500 that he's been paying attention to Lapsa's wagon. While I do agree that scum like to push lynch bait, what is blantanly wrong is I never pushed it.

The only few times when he has been voting anyone that wasn't on the Lapsa wagon was when he hopped on AJ's wagon.
BTW Kyouko, why did you hop on Aj's wagon when you did? I assume it has to do with Transcend?

As for Kyouko currently, I think he's just staying under the radar. He said he wanted to interact with his scumread, but quite frankly he never got the chance to, cause he's gonna die. Atleast, I am assuming he wanted to interact with his scum read on Tywin. Not to mention the only people that are pulling him into question are me and AJ. You seem to think he's town after all. And him hoping onto the wagon when he did seemed perfect for him.

I've tried interacting with Tywin, he's very caught up in Titus right now. See my discussion with you a couple of nights ago when we went to bed at 2 for a better example of what it looks like when I do that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh forgot to address why I got on Aj's wagon. I'm a Transcend fanboy and you can meta dive me to confirm if you want, so that's part of what has to do with Teanscend. I also had enough of a read on Titus and Transcend at the time to feel comfortable getting on a wagon they were going to be a part of so early. Also didn't like Aj's activity to that point, it was a small iso that was sort of jabbing at Transcend iirc, and Titus and Transcend had previously discussed in the thread their willingness to vote Aj so since I knew Titus would be on board I got on immediately. Can't remember who I was voting at the time but my suspicion of them was starting to die probably, either that or they were my RVS vote. Just getting the game moving in as many directions as I could early so that scum couldn't hide at the edge of the thread

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The ongoing game winking and nudging needs to stop, thank you.

That's 2 posts and no flip does that mean Gamma's dayvig is not going to kill Tywin right now?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Large normals are allowed to have 1-2 non-normal roles as long as the setup is still considered balanced under review I believe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also, can you be a dear SSMB and walk me through your reasoning for dropping your scum read on Titus and then town reading her?

We've already had this conversation and like I said if you missed it I can't point it out for you, not yet at least. Also want to say if you're caught up like you say you are you should have seen that I didn't SR Titus for being on the lapsa wagon, I had a heightened suspicion of her and the rest of those players. Being on that wagon shifted them into my null scum pile. I treat null scum, scumleans, and scumreads as different things. Not sure if you do though so maybe that's why you're saying I was SRing her

I am caught up save for whats been posted today

I'm cheering because you're a hypocrite. And I have a TR on both Titus and AJ fyi
I do love all these idiots shouting "town v town!" though.

Nvm, maybe you didn't TR me. I saw this originally and didn't see the AJ part. I thought you said 'I have a town read on both of you.' Guess you caught me in another lie /s

You TR Titus and AJ I guess. Looks odd to me. I SR them both. You included. Funny. Who are the idiots you mentioned claiming TvT?

And I'll repeat my question: if I get lynched and flip town, will your reads change?

This is a townie way to handle being caught misunderstanding a post, you admit to it and look back to clarify what really happened and go from there.

Also the links in that post work from desktop, I think it's your phone having a problem

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No it's more like he just now is realizing he was overreacting before I think.
Also I was really hoping that pagetop would go to the mod for a VC

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean it got blown up in a melodramatic mess but I most definitely asked you what was up with your voting for me

The answer to which is still trash

No, you demanded I impress you and explain to everyone why I'm still voting for you. Then you fake claimed Gladiator.

We are saying the same thing.

Kek. Decided to read LUV/Elbirn in ISO real quick to check up on Elbirn's progression here and found this really funny

Okay, re-read Titus' ISO. Tl;dr is I'm okay with lynching either of these fucks.
VOTE: Twyin

Why do I think Titus is town?
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think she isn't currently I'm going through her ISO and she could be seen as scummy, except she started interacting with me. And I thought her theories are genuine and stuff. Ya know, I really thought she was doing town things. So I defended my townreads hardly. But now that a lot of people think that Titus is scum, I might as well stop my conf bias and look through her. Turns out, no actual analysis. Besides on Tywin. Only real person I feel like she's gone after. Quite frankly it seems like she wants other people to do things for her in 768

Now why is my vote on Tywin?
I think Tywin and Titus got into a Scum v Scum fight. But right now Tywin is acting anti-town. He quite frankly hasn't responded to any of the posts that I wanted him to respond to. He's just twisting what people are saying and calling them out on that. And Tywin, go keep your ego in check. 429. No one ever catches scum 100% of the time unless they know who scum are because they are scum themselves and they really wanna bus their scummates.

@LUV - Can you elaborate on this gif in words so I can tell if you're reacting to Alisae's case on Tywin, Titus, both, her assessment of them being SvS engaged in theatre, or any combination of the above? Or are you just trying to get on her good side the way you have been since when you called her "alluring?"

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Any other thoughts you'd like to share with the class?

What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?

@Kyouko:

I read some things that ping and/or worry me a bit but nothing too strong. I think I'm just going to continue to town hunt.

EBWOP

Could you elaborate on some of your stronger reads either way, or specify what things are pinging you? You're being vague, not naming names and keeping options open. This can be used by scum to blend in when they finally choose where to vote and to dodge VCA.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sorry...

What do you think of Nero? My judgment there is cloudy because he tunnels on me every game.

Seems like he could be misguided town which is why he's null town to me for now. Depending how long the tunnel carries on could be looked at but there are more likely suspects out there as far as I'm concerned.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sorry...

What do you think of Nero? My judgment there is cloudy because he tunnels on me every game.

Seems like he could be misguided town which is why he's null town to me for now. Depending how long the tunnel carries on could be looked at but there are more likely suspects out there as far as I'm concerned.

Ok.

Tywin, Lapsa, who else?

Alisae?

Alisae I hesitate to vote for but my read on her hasn't changed. I still think she's scum for the reasons I've given before, but your talk with cloud steadies my hand.
Tywin may be town after all but I'm going to keep watching what he does to progress the game. Since he's willing to now admit he was misrepping at some points I think it shows he may be ready to find other scum.
Lapsa I'm largely unimpressed with. It's ironic I say that because one of the things that bothers me about him is that a lot of his ISO is him calling other players underwhelming
Still waiting on Pine to catch up but I want AJ and LUV to interact with each other for now and want to see what AJ has to say about me and Alisae since he brought it up.
Also need content from Nosferatus and Moz, maybe some cases from Sonia and Cloud on their scumreads?
What do you think of the Transcend slot? Sucks he had to replace out I like him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's based on the early wagon on lapsa which btw could be a scum wagon on scum in multiball which is not uncommon in a game of this size, fwiw.
Inb4 it's multiball and both scum teams try to kill me tonight because they think I'm on the other team

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FTR I was in a similar place to Nero like 40 pages ago before Lapsa turned out to be a heavy lurker with little to contribute, but when I can't comfortably say he's town I can't put as much stock in my original analysis of his RVS wagon.

@Nero - If you do want to stay focused on the Lapsa wagon still, what does this look like to you?

Moar Lapsa votes please.

Sure, I'll vote
VOTE: Lapsa

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay so back when you picked someone from the Lapsa wagon to vote why didn't you pick Alisae or Pine if one was sheeping and the other was actually pushing the wagon? I get Pine was the first vote on the wagon but him pushing it kinda invalidates the usual benefit of the doubt you give to the first on the wagon in these cases

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sorry...

What do you think of Nero? My judgment there is cloudy because he tunnels on me every game.

Seems like he could be misguided town which is why he's null town to me for now. Depending how long the tunnel carries on could be looked at but there are more likely suspects out there as far as I'm concerned.

Ok.

Tywin, Lapsa, who else?

Alisae?

Alisae I hesitate to vote for but my read on her hasn't changed. I still think she's scum for the reasons I've given before, but your talk with cloud steadies my hand.
Tywin may be town after all but I'm going to keep watching what he does to progress the game. Since he's willing to now admit he was misrepping at some points I think it shows he may be ready to find other scum.
Lapsa I'm largely unimpressed with. It's ironic I say that because one of the things that bothers me about him is that a lot of his ISO is him calling other players underwhelming
Still waiting on Pine to catch up but I want AJ and LUV to interact with each other for now and want to see what AJ has to say about me and Alisae since he brought it up.
Also need content from Nosferatus and Moz, maybe some cases from Sonia and Cloud on their scumreads?
What do you think of the Transcend slot? Sucks he had to replace out I like him

Oops I misread the original question, thought you were asking my reads on those players and was a little confused by the "who else" part. I see now you were asking for a scumpool.
Lapsa Tywin and AJ scum, Alisae Traitor or on other scumteam in multiball, leaning Traitor. The way she treats them makes me think she knows they're scum but they don't know she's scum. I think lynching Alisae is ideal given this theory because if she flips traitor it really speaks to the identity of the scumteam. One hangup I have is her voting Lapsa early by sheeping pine, not sure what the motivation would be there. I feel like that would draw scum's attention to her.

Earlier I thought you were implying discussing her lynch would be anti-town for a different reason so I hope it wasn't because you suspected she's a Traitor. I think Traitor is a good flip to get though because her reads lists will be designed to have mafia listed as town to avoid getting shot by them. Still early in the day though, no need to rush her

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have several players listed with Alisae as possible teammates in the case of multiball but I don't feel confident in those reads because there are so many possibilities but Lapsa/Tywin/AJ are making a lot of sense. AJ voting Alisae for voting you could be him looking to steer the lynch off of Tywin if AJ and Tywin are a team

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait what? I thought most of the game you'd been giving Tywin a town read based on the 1 completed game you guys have together as town. You sheeped to get on that Aj wagon and let yourself off of it really easily, it was one of the things that pinged me when I was first looking at the buddying/sheeping you've been doing

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Votecount 1.2

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)
Alisae 4 (Aj The Epic, Nosferatu, Lapsa, Tywin Lannister)
Elbirn 2 (Lil Uzi Vert, xSoniaNevermindx)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Cabd)

Not Voting 5 (Nero Cain, Transcend, mozamis, ssbm_Kyouko, CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 1.3

Elbirn 6 (Lil Uzi Vert, xSoniaNevermindx, Aj The Epic, ssbm_Kyouko, Transcend, CloudKicker)
Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)
Alisae 3 (Nosferatu, Lapsa, Tywin Lannister)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Cabd)

Not Voting 2 (Nero Cain, mozamis)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 1.4

Elbirn 4 (Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic, ssbm_Kyouko, Transcend)
CloudKicker 3 (xSoniaNevermindx, Tywin Lannister, Gamma Emerald)
Lapsa 2 (Pine, Titus)
Gamma Emerald 2 (Cabd, Alisae)
Alisae 1 (Nosferatu)
Lil Uzi Vert 1 (Elbirn)
Titus 1 (Nero Cain)

Not Voting 3 (mozamis, CloudKicker, Lapsa)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Ok, let's take a look at these wagons.

Laspa and Alisae are big RVS wagons. This suggests Alisae and Lapsa are not on the same team. If T v T, scum don't need two town RVS wagons. Scum wouldn't dual wagon each other, this suggests T v S.

We continue on to see that Elbrin v Laspa. Lapsa has the exact same wagon composition as before. Yet, a new wagon springs up on Elbrin. We can conclude here that Elbrin is NOT teamed with Lapsa, unless the entire gamestate is wrong. AJ moves away from Alisae to Elbrin. Yet, for the most part, this doesn't seem to be a scum push to save Lapsa. Yet, it provides an excellent excuse for any RVS bussers to back off.

Elbrin and Lapsa wagons start disintegrating at the same time. A cloudkicker wagon emerges.

There is a pattern I am seeing. Tywin sheeping a lot. Normally, without flips, I wouldn't detail this given a full VCA cannot be done. Yet his manta is Titus cannot be town because she's sheeping. Seems more like a case of projection than anything.

Now, let's bring this back to game play.

Lapsa has done nothing since being wagoned. Several offhand comments have been made about lurkers but more energy has been spent on discrediting me and my townblock reads. The last time he rolled scum, he tried a bit of discrediting but I rolled GS and basically guiltied everyone.

So refresh

Cloudkicker, Elbrin, Cabd, SSM, Titus hard town
Transcend Nero AJ, strong town

Pine diwn, now my read has gotten stale
Lil Uzi, feels wierd, up to null; townie sounding posts but buddy central
Gamma down to gun to my head town (don't see why scum gamma protects me).
Nos blank
Mozamis needs reassessment, same with Sonia

Alise scummy but not scum with Tywin

Twyin lapsa definitely teamed

If Alisae is traitor then scum!Tywin does not know she is on his team and he may vote Alisae unknowingly voting his teammate though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Although that would be weird if 3/4 of the players on Alisae in RVS were scum unless Lapsa has a really important role in the scumteam

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what's the conclusion you draw from that? That since there are no others of {Lapsa, Tywin, Aj} voting Elbirn that Alisae can't be traitor trying to get off of Lapsa's wagon?

Pedit:still don't know what you're saying with the 1.2 to 1.3 analysis

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh she doesn't even move lol

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[/quote]Another question, at that point, what have I done that could have gotten me read as a traitor?[/quote]

At that point, nothing, which is why the mafia wouldn't know you're a traitor. A traitor is a member of the mafia who knows the rest of the members of the mafia but whose identity is not known to the rest of the mafia. In other words, the reason you seem to defend my suspects but at the same time are being attacked by them would make sense to me if you knew who the mafia were but they didn't know who you were. That's why I think you're a mafia traitor

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kyouko your entire premise falls apart if you take into consideration

this scum WIFOM

.

ftfy

At that point, nothing, which is why the mafia wouldn't know you're a traitor. A traitor is a member of the mafia who knows the rest of the members of the mafia but whose identity is not known to the rest of the mafia. In other words, the reason you seem to defend my suspects but at the same time are being attacked by them would make sense to me if you knew who the mafia were but they didn't know who you were. That's why I think you're a mafia traitor

When have I defended Tywin?

Sure I may have attested to his behavoir, but at the end of the day I still thought he was scum

.

When have I defended AJ? I don't recall, so please inform me.

Bolded of yours are semantics. The AJ interaction I'm talking about is below, but I didn't mean to say "defending" if I did actually say that.

Btw - Aj seems to be hardcore lurksack by meta.

For other players Lapsa likes to just say "FYI: [player] is town/scum". Here he actually gives a reason when defending Aj, this is different than what he usually does and points towards Lapsa/Aj team.

Transcend and alt are votes I'm also fine with.

Can't wait for the sonia is defending her partner aj lines

Maybe sonia is defending her partner aj

Why do you feel comfortable with this wagon, Alisae? By people on it? By speed?

You went from Null, to potential scum, to voting me and saying i'm very scummy and I hadn't posted inbetween that at all.

Valid question. I'm comfortable with it because I don't like your posts.
Like for example the one where you vote Elbrin. You're implying that he had stated no reason for his townreads at all. But at that point he stated his reasons for why he thought 2 out of 3 people were town, the last person I knew it was gut because of his meta.
And I don't get why you would want to encourage wall posts? The problem with them is that they lack a consice arguement that you could easily grab. They fail to convey the point to the reader. I like arguements that are easy to grab and understand.

Valid question. I'm comfortable with it because I don't like your posts.
Like for example the one where you vote Elbrin. You're implying that he had stated no reason for his townreads at all. But at that point he stated his reasons for why he thought 2 out of 3 people were town, the last person I knew it was gut because of his meta.
And I don't get why you would want to encourage wall posts? The problem with them is that they lack a consice arguement that you could easily grab. They fail to convey the point to the reader. I like arguements that are easy to grab and understand.

First... I'm not sure I agree with you saying you didn't like my posts, because that doesn't explain your read changing.

So there's two issues I had with Elbrin: his reasons were generic, which is why I stated there were none. Second, it felt incredibly forced to come out with that many town reads so early. Yes the adage is that town town read more than scum but it was irrelevant and unnecessary and honestly none of the reads felt controversial at that point.

Walls don't have to be devoid of content but they imply that at least we're slowing the pace to respond in a point-by-point style. I'm historically awful at fast games, so it's always in my best interest to pray the game starts to elongate posts, as that's the happy median between slow and still full of information.

With Transcend:
I think it's NA. I felt like he was after me more for a comment I made in the last game than anything else.

AJ I'm satisfied with you for now. I sympathize with you on the fast pase issue, they can be a bitch to deal with if you aren't around to keep up with. And the way I see it, if you can structure you're arguement, you can make a short post about it.
UNVOTE:

And Sonia, I see you. Let's start with this, why don't you like the fact I said you were overeacting?

Although maybe it's not Sonia/Aj/Alisae after this last post. The above is the interaction between Alisae and Aj from after she votes to when she unvotes. I don't see the reason she unvotes so quickly here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Guess I did say defending. The point is that I see interactions going back and forth between the 3 [Lapsa, Aj, Tywin] group and you that make me think that you are aware that they are aligned and are avoiding lynching them, and that they are not aware that you are mafia with them.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think you're right to focus on 621 but for the wrong reason. AJ had said I was a town village idiot. Lapsa wanted AJ's thoughts to be promoted.

ScumAJ likely votes me rather than defends me when scum tried to rope me.

When does AJ call you VI? I don't see it before Lapsa posts 621

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Although that would be weird if 3/4 of the players on Alisae in RVS were scum unless Lapsa has a really important role in the scumteam

Some heavy weight reaching.

I think you have a good chance to end up in LyLo, Kyouko.

For other players Lapsa likes to just say "FYI: [player] is town/scum". Here he actually gives a reason when defending Aj, this is different than what he usually does and points towards Lapsa/Aj team.

Stupid beyond belief. Or you are just scum.

Hey I said it would be weird if that were the case. This looks more like heavy weight discrediting after I spotted your FYI pattern. You're treating Aj different than the rest of the players for some reason and I think the reason is you're scum
VOTE: Lapsa

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think he's implying that he didn't treat Aj differently and that's why it's not weird, even though I've presented evidence that he is, in fact, treating Aj differently.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Traitor business sounds fun.

Certainly better than mason crap.

What is this responding to? It's not a Traitor crumb for your scumteam is it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If that's a traitor crumb I'm gonna laugh when you flip traitor

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I understand why you've put Pine there but don't agree with it yet. Won't judge him until I see some more but he looks okay enough so far.

Exactly my thoughts. Although chose not to mention it.

Titus moved to scumpool.

Lapsa, AJ, TL - easy mislynches
Alisae, Uzi, Gamma - perhaps bus on 1, others null-ish town
kicker, pine, sonia - gtfo town
nero - snowflake gtfo town because nero
mozamis - snowflake oh so legit catchup gtfo town

nostramus?

Btw - Aj seems to be hardcore lurksack by meta.

The lurking is irrelevant

The content within the lurking is awful

I find it acceptable - it's better than Nosferatu's.

So these posts are the ones where he defends players without saying FYI to the point in the game where I pointed out that he says FYI a lot. The first post is defending Pine's lurking, and the last 3 are about AJ. He also puts Mozamis and Pine as town on this list but puts Nosferatus at a "?", which could be excused because i think Nos has like 3 posts at the time Lapsa posts this.
If he is a traitor though would it not be interesting if he had used his 561 as another crumb? Look at the bolded. If it's 4 scum, 3+ a traitor, the scumteam might notice this reads list and see themselves as 2 easy mislynches alongside the traitor, plus the last of the scum team being hidden inside the 3 below where there is "perhaps bus on 1". This would be traitor!Lapsa + AJ +Tywin + 1 of [Alisae, Uzi, Gamma] as the scumteam.
He uses FYI 3 times; twice to call Cabd and Titus scum, and once to call Alisae town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What is this responding to? It's not a Traitor crumb for your scumteam is it?

It is a traitor crumb for my scumteam.

Lynch this

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh yeah I thought I saw that one but it wasn't in my quote list. Are you going to give a serious answer to what 762, the traitor crumb in question, was in response to?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You openly admitted it was a traitor crumb either because:
A. You're caught scum who doesn't have a serious answer because it really was in response to nothing, and was a bare Traitor crumb.
B. You're town who thinks my case on you is bad and your ego is keeping you from responding seriously to my case.

B is what makes me think it might not be a serious answer, because your posting style is that of a very egotistic player.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh hey I found what you were responding to. Shame it wasn't a crumb after all.

VOTE: Tywin

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Meh. Tywin was showing some signs of improvement recently I guess.
VOTE: Alisae

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko is more concerned about drafting his fantasy scum team than he is about actually hunting. Throws out the traitor card with no real reason. Suspecting a traitor isn't even NAI, because scum can be trying to signal each other that way if one exists. But needless to say, it's also fucking pointless to suspect that in D1. His potential scum team is at this point like 7 long but he's gone through variations that suggest he suspects and has more than half the playerlist as acceptable lynches.

If you have townreads so strong on more than half the playerlist that you would never lynch them today all I can say is you're extremely naive. I'm going through variations because I'm trying to figure out what makes the most sense.

Lapsa Tywin and AJ scum, Alisae Traitor or on other scumteam in multiball, leaning Traitor.

That's from 1536.

If he is a traitor though would it not be interesting if he had used his 561 as another crumb? Look at the bolded. If it's 4 scum, 3+ a traitor, the scumteam might notice this reads list and see themselves as 2 easy mislynches alongside the traitor, plus the last of the scum team being hidden inside the 3 below where there is "perhaps bus on 1". This would be traitor!Lapsa + AJ +Tywin + 1 of [Alisae, Uzi, Gamma] as the scumteam.

1585, referring 'his' as lapsa.

The reason I'd say Alisae is the traitor is because my scumreads and their interactions with one another point to that conclusion. I saw Lapsa's original post about traitor business in his iso and asked him about it because I didn't remember any talk about traitors from so long ago. When he said it was a crumb for his scumteam I assumed it probably was because town would answer questions seriously and not sarcastically.

Kyouko, thoughts on Sonia and Uzi?

They aren't bothering me aside from not voting. I haven't looked very closely at Sonia yet though so I think I'll do that now. LUV is the lurkier of the two I feel. Also forgot to post that Cloud is also currently not voting in that unofficial VC.

Suuuuure. Just recall uzi and sonia don't post much between this and him claiming they're part of a scum team.

Also throws out multiball as a possible theory.

More importantly, Kyouko explains away some bad votes with "I was sheeping", specifically why he was on my wagon.

When did I claim uzi and sonia are part of a scum team? Answer: I didn't. Quote me if you want to throw shade about that. I'd say it's also naive to assume that there's no way we're dealing with multiball and the way you toss that comment about multiball in looks like shade throwing. My vote on you wasn't bad, but it was sheeping. Like I said I have a lot of faith in Transcend and I had a pretty good townread on Titus at the time and felt like it would be a good idea to vote with them to see what you would do. I don't think I had a very strong SR on anyone at the time so I feel like my vote was well placed.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also Cloud this is our 3rd game together stop calling me she/her please, my pronoun is right there under my avatar and I've pointed it out to you before.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not even sure what to do right now. Feels like the game is going nowhere. I'm not sure if it's because the same couple of voices are on every page or my lack of interest. Just going to keep it all the way real about the major shit that has gone on and say what I've been thinking

___

Alisae feels town and it has nothing to do with the crush thing I got going on. Wanting to be liked is NAI. Town generally want to be liked just as much as scum because they want their opinions and thoughts heard and taken seriously just as much scum want to blend in and deceive town into thinking their town. She's interested, engaged, and wants to sort, just doesn't effectively know how to and that's okay. The questions she's been asking read like town as well as someone new to the game because there questions you can tell haven't been seriously thought about because a majority of them don't and/or didn't help in any major in figuring out alignment and aren't ones that show any signs of scum intent. She also asks questions at a rate so frequent I don't think can come from scum when it's so easy to not give a damn and watch town self destruct with the way the game is going.

Lapsa feels town. Solely for that wagon alone.

The Titus and Ty debate is quite dumb when you get down to it really. Especially if you take away the misrepresentation about the Gladiator claim which I personally I thought how that misunderstanding occurred was explained pretty well in 752. Don't care if he lied or not at this point.

Titus didn't like Ty's answer regarding not wanting to lynch me because she felt giving me the benefit of doubt at the time was scummy. Rather than just try to get everyone to agree with that point about Ty, we get a lengthy heated back and forth that's a pain to reread which is why my take on this is mainly based on her case presented in 628. This is the only reason I've found to TR Titus, as scum she could've easily try to sell that point without drawing so much attention to herself as she did but instead she argued with her SR in a matter that definitely doesn't make me feel we have scum pushing on town or scum theatre. Ty's frustration is genuine as hell. That's really it to that TR from me. I just don't see scum getting that upset when he wasn't even in a caught for a wrong reason situation there, just accused of misrepresentation.

Transcend slot is probably town but is going to remain null for me for now. That replace out though was the most town like replace out I've ever seen.
___

So yeah, I don't know who scum is but I definitely feel like I can identify town more effectively than usual this game. I'm just a bit frustrated by all the noise and maybe it's my fault for having a life outside of this site and not trying to break it up sooner. The above should answer your 1503 Kyouko.

@LUV -

Can you elaborate on this gif in words

so I can tell if you're reacting to Alisae's case on Tywin, Titus, both, her assessment of them being SvS engaged in theatre, or any combination of the above? Or are you just trying to get on her good side the way you have been since when you called her "alluring?"

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Any other thoughts you'd like to share with the class?

What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?

@Kyouko:

I read some things that ping and/or worry me a bit but nothing too strong. I think I'm just going to continue to town hunt.

EBWOP

Could you

elaborate on some of your stronger reads either way

, or

specify what things are pinging you

? You're being vague, not naming names and keeping options open. This can be used by scum to blend in when they finally choose where to vote and to dodge VCA.

I feel like a lot of 1503 got ignored in that response. That seems like a very basic explanation of your strongest read which seems to be Tywin, but it's also a reason that's been taken from someone else who originally pointed out that Tywin's frustration seems genuinely town. Do you have any other reads that you could provide your own reasons for? You're starting to look like you're intentionally blending in. What things did you read that pinged/and or worried you? Again, you responded to it so clearly it was significant enough to you to warrant a reaction: "What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?" Can you explain what that gif of James was all about?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lots of words

I'm sort of confused as to why you think AJ is naive for having lots of townreads he won't lynch when you basically hand your vote to two townreads

Though since I apparently have your vote please vote Titus with me kthx

Titus is town though, and neither of you have my vote. Titus and I have basically the same scumpool, but I think notable differences in our reads are at Nero and Aj. Voting with my townreads at an early stage before I develop strong SRs is not naive as you're implying though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@titus overall she has been pushing theory about traitor and 2 scumteams, trying to push a world where she can read alisea as if she was trator or something while its completly irrelevant to use that d1. The talk in itself is nai, thing is she was inconsistent when she pushed lapsa about it but didnt vote them, she went back to tywin (town). Even you titus whos pretty sure tywin is scum, and from your pov you might have a better view than i do, you still are reasonable enough to get off his back

I pushed Lapsa because I actually thought I'd spotted a traitor crumb if you go back and read it. Once I realized it wasn't a crumb I went back to voting Tywin because he's only just starting to calm down a bit and I felt like keeping my vote there. After some deliberation, I decided it may be best to take the votes off of Tywin so he doesn't feel as pressured. If he's really town the way many people seem convinced that he is, it might do good to let him feel like the burden isn't so much on him to defend himself as it is to find scum. I moved my vote back to Alisae so I don't see what about my voting is inconsistent. I'm voting for my scumreads, and I also got off Tywin's back.

Lots of words

I'm sort of confused as to why you think AJ is naive for having lots of townreads he won't lynch when you basically hand your vote to two townreads

Though since I apparently have your vote please vote Titus with me kthx

Titus is town though, and neither of you have my vote. Titus and I have basically the same scumpool, but I think notable differences in our reads are at Nero and Aj. Voting with my townreads at an early stage before I develop strong SRs is not naive as you're implying though.

im fairly confident tywin is town though but i like you even if i think ure half wrong

If I'm half wrong you're saying Titus and Tywin are both town, right?

@Syryana - Much like your predecessor I get strong reads early and commit. There are more reasons that come up later after the Aj wagon that I've already told Nero I won't discuss.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

lol masonry

You weren't supposed to say anything

[ssbm_Kyouko]

lol masonry

You weren't supposed to say anything

....People were supposed to ignore my funny video?

So are you saying that you thinking Titus was town has been a tinfoil theory this whole time, and now you're rereading the thread under the assumption that Titus is scum?

We're talking about masons because of Elbirn's video

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh, we are putting reads in thread.

Elbrin, Cabd, Gamma, AJ, SSM, Cloudkicker<--- Lock town barring significant evidence to the contray

Prob town, not touching today
Nero, Pine

Gun to my head town, would hammer kicking and screaming
Syr (loved Transcend, hate their recent posting with a passion), Sonia

Null, could compromise here since I hate nulls
Lil Uzi,

Done Jackshit, would lynch

Nos

Can eat rope and should now

Tywin, Moz, Lapsa


Separate from list
Alisae - If there is an SK, probably her

What if there's not an SK though, is Alisae scummy to you? I was casing her earlier and forgot deadline was approaching in another game so I had to dip but that's coming soon™

I could rope Lapsa, Alisae, LUV at this point. Maybe Aj depending how/if he responds to my complaints about his case on me.

Cabd I'll update reads after my case on Alisae I think, maybe later tonight.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Jesus Christ LUV finally cast a vote

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also can some tell me in 15 words or less why Lapsa is a thing

762 is a traitor crumb for his scumteam, according to him.

^11 words

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also can some tell me in 15 words or less why Lapsa is a thing

762 is a traitor crumb for his scumteam, according to him.

^11 words

And you aren't joining the wagon yet because?

You're scummier than he is and I don't buy into not lynching my top scumread just because Titus thinks your an SK. I'd hammer him if my vote was needed but I'd rather lynch you today.

And yea also traitor claim, if theres actually a traitor or not, its really great because mefia doesnt know if hes real or not and probably wont lynch him, just lynching a traitor claim is so good for reading interactions, mafia will find every reasons possble to not jump on it

That traitor crumb was a joke lol, I spotted it at like 4am and didn't realize there was actually a conversation about them already

[ssbm_Kyouko]

lol kyouko then vote alise and see wheres its going, the day is far from finished yet

my vote is on Alisae as far as I know though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nah I like this wagon state actually, there've been enough people voting Titus that Lapsa flip will be good info and he's a scumread anyways. Readlist and Alisae points coming after, gonna ignore the thread for a bit to write those up.
VOTE: Lapsa
L-2
Note that Pine is on the wagon still and is really inactive though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Unofficial VC

Titus 4 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister, Syryana)
Alisae 2 (Aj The Epic, Elbirn)
Lapsa 7 (Pine, CloudKicker, Alisae, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko) L-2
Tywin Lannister 1 (Lapsa)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

Not Voting 2 (Cabd, xSoniaNevermindx)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is December 30 at 11 AM Eastern.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also Alisae where do you stand on Tywin?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You're scummier than he is and I don't buy into not lynching my top scumread just because Titus thinks your an SK. I'd hammer him if my vote was needed but I'd rather lynch you today.

Explain to me why you don't buy it. Because I don't buy the fact that you don't buy it.

I don't buy it because I think SKs need to be lynched since they're not aligned with the town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You're scummier than he is and I don't buy into not lynching my top scumread just because Titus thinks your an SK. I'd hammer him if my vote was needed but I'd rather lynch you today.

Explain to me why you don't buy it. Because I don't buy the fact that you don't buy it.

I don't buy it because I think SKs need to be lynched since they're not aligned with the town.

Wait for evidence of SK before entertaining a theory that requires an SK

The theory that Alisae is scum is not contingent on her being a SK. You're the one that suggested she was SK in the first place, because she's trying to be nice to everyone, but I think she's more likely to be traitor or scum PR trying to get onto town's good side. If I thought she were necessarily SK I could understand why we would leave her alone for now, but I don't think she is. And if she is, what's to stop her from killing us because we found her and scum didn't? If she is SK she'd be a liability at this point.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You're scummier than he is and I don't buy into not lynching my top scumread just because Titus thinks your an SK. I'd hammer him if my vote was needed but I'd rather lynch you today.

Explain to me why you don't buy it. Because I don't buy the fact that you don't buy it.

I don't buy it because I think SKs need to be lynched since they're not aligned with the town.

Wait for evidence of SK before entertaining a theory that requires an SK

The theory that Alisae is scum is not contingent on her being a SK. You're the one that suggested she was SK in the first place, because she's trying to be nice to everyone, but I think she's more likely to be traitor or scum PR trying to get onto town's good side. If I thought she were necessarily SK I could understand why we would leave her alone for now, but I don't think she is. And if she is, what's to stop her from killing us because we found her and scum didn't? If she is SK she'd be a liability at this point.

She's been too nice to everyone, including scum, to make sense as one of them.

She hasn't been too nice to everyone though, and we don't know who any of the scum are yet.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just gonna save the Alisae stuff for later (in a draft) I'm getting heated over this SK discussion and that's not very good for my health atm.

Town - Titus, Elbirn
Townlean - Cloud, Syryana, Cabd, Nero Cain

----D1 Lynch Line----

Nulltown -Gamma, Pine, Nosferatus, mozamis, Tywin
Nullscum - Sonia, Aj
Scumlean - LUV
Scum - Alisae, Lapsa

Tywin could drop again real quick depending on how he continues. Aj could rise pretty quick depending on if/how he ever comments on my comments on his case on me. Sonia is admittedly lowered by preflip associations. Gamma keeps coloring me red in his VCAs but I think his heart is in the right place. LUV has not responded adequately to direct questioning so he's still down there, and

his vote is positioned well on the Lapsa wagon to be a bus

.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You're scummier than he is and I don't buy into not lynching my top scumread just because Titus thinks your an SK. I'd hammer him if my vote was needed but I'd rather lynch you today.

Explain to me why you don't buy it. Because I don't buy the fact that you don't buy it.

I don't buy it because I think SKs need to be lynched since they're not aligned with the town.

Wait for evidence of SK before entertaining a theory that requires an SK

The theory that Alisae is scum is not contingent on her being a SK. You're the one that suggested she was SK in the first place, because she's trying to be nice to everyone, but I think she's more likely to be traitor or scum PR trying to get onto town's good side. If I thought she were necessarily SK I could understand why we would leave her alone for now, but I don't think she is. And if she is, what's to stop her from killing us because we found her and scum didn't? If she is SK she'd be a liability at this point.

She's been too nice to everyone, including scum, to make sense as one of them.

She hasn't been too nice to everyone though, and we don't know who any of the scum are yet.

Citations please.

Quote wall is getting huge but I literally can't cite where you

haven't

been nice to someone.

Also Alisae where do you stand on Tywin?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now town along with Titus.

And what do you think of me now? Still scummy?

@ssbm: why do you townread Nero?

I talked to him a couple irl days ago and moved him from my townlean below the lynch line into my townlean above the lynch line after that discussion. He showed a willingness to reconsider his tunnel, but I never felt like his premise was off, just that he didn't catch up fast enough to adjust. At the time the first Lapsa wagon formed it was a reasonable thing to think that it was a wagon where scum would hide during RVS.

How is Nos null-town?

I have a gut read on them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now town along with Titus.

And what do you think of me now? Still scummy?

Yes, you're scummy

. You're guilty as hell

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot

.

Can you explain the first bolded, given the second bolded?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sure. I think you're scummy because you still think I'm traitor even tho if I wanted to get noticed my be scum buddies, I would have switched to the Elbrin wagon. Also even if I was or was SK, you much rather lynch me now then have it be confirmed that an SK is in the game. This does seem natural to me, but from a scum perspective, it would be easier for you to lynch me then to let me be around night 1 to potentailly fuck one of your scumbuddies up. And if I'm not the SK, then it works out for you.

My point is, you much rather lynch me because I could be a potential threat to you if I am the SK. And if I flip as town, then it helps you either way.

The previous theory was that You, Tywin, and Lapsa were all scum, and it would have been seen by your attempt to bus Tywin. Now Tywin is just cut out of the picture. But then you also said you would have hammered Lapsa if needed and stay on my wagon. You then changed your mind very quickly from wanting to stay on my wagon and if needed hammer Lapsa to making the Lapsa wagon L-2. I still see you and Lapsa as being scum buddies.

I don't want 2 anti-town night kills in the game. Yes it makes sense to think that scum would want to lynch the SK, but it also makes sense for town to want to lynch them. The chances of the SK hitting town are much greater than of them hitting scum because there are many more town in the game than scum. If I'm scum with Lapsa, why do I point out what I thought was a traitor crumb in the first place? I just don't understand how you're coming to the conclusions you're coming to about me, and it feels like your read on me is OMGUS-spirited. You felt like I was town for a long time until I noticed what you were doing and called you out on it, and only then did you start to SR me. When I pointed out the thing about how you associate Tywin and me as scum bussing scum, and it no longer fits into your fabricated SR of me, you change your mind and now I'm bussing Lapsa. This is absurd and your reads on me are as fake as the feigned frustration that Elbirn pointed out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The only reason I'm okay with this Lapsa wagon is that the 2 scummy voters on it (in my eyes), you and LUV, could be a 3rd party and a bus. Titus is so stuck on you being an SK or Survivor or something that I'm willing to compromise with her for this today, but it doesn't change my read on you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm thinking Ali is a possible ssbm buddy as well because ssbm is going full tilt with the SK hunting BS. 3p spec is an EXCELLENT way to avoid sorting a scum buddy.

I'm not avoiding sorting her she's clearly a consistent scumread of mine. Again, I'm not the one who suggested she was a SK in the first place, it was Titus that did that. Are you even reading this thread or just confirmation biasing your SR on me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't even think she's SK, I've always thought she was mafia since I started to SR her, then I started to think she was traitor, then Titus suggested she might be SK, and from then on I've always stuck by her "being scum but even if she's SK she needs rope" until I moved my vote onto Lapsa to compromise with Titus for now on whether she needs rope today, because if the double NKs start coming in I think she'll have my back on an Alisae lynch later on down the line

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Keyword there is "if" she's SK by the way

[ssbm_Kyouko]

buddy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In hindsight,

MAYBE

you could argue that Titus was voting Lapsa b/c she thought it was scummy that Lapsa didn't like masons/the fake mason claim but it still seems skin deep and opportunistic. Both Elbrin and Alisae votes were blank sheep votes. Ali later claimed that she voted Lapsa b/c he seemed anti-town. I really don't feel like my Titus vote was bad as I didn't like any of them.

If Lapsa flips town how would it change your reads on those 3 slots?

I think Ali is scum regardless of Lapsa's alignment. I think Titus is town regardless. Elbirn was wagoned by quite a few SRs so I think he's town regardless.

So me being SK is potentially a bunch of bullshit to you?

Yeah, the SK talk feels like read dodging from ssbm.

Hey are you ignoring my posts on purpose?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lil Uzi: General vibe I get from them, but I don't see Uzi as truly attempting to find scum. He's largely sheeped other opinions until very recently, and it just feels like the classic 'trying to skate by unnoticed' scum play rather than anything sinister. It's not a great case by any means, but I find him scummier due to that than I do Alisae. I see them as largely the same player, but Alisae I know is new. Lil Uzi isn't, so there's less excuses there. Aside from that, nobody has legitimately called him into question the way they have with Alisae, saying she's an SK or Traitor or Survivor... A lot of bad claims for D1. They never tried this with Uzi, and I don't really know why.

I've tried that with Uzi, it's in this spoiler, you might've missed it while skimming. Also you're probably not dropping down my reads list anytime soon, more likely to go up from past couple posts.

Spoiler:

I mean it got blown up in a melodramatic mess but I most definitely asked you what was up with your voting for me

The answer to which is still trash

No, you demanded I impress you and explain to everyone why I'm still voting for you. Then you fake claimed Gladiator.

We are saying the same thing.

Kek. Decided to read LUV/Elbirn in ISO real quick to check up on Elbirn's progression here and found this really funny

Okay, re-read Titus' ISO. Tl;dr is I'm okay with lynching either of these fucks.
VOTE: Twyin

Why do I think Titus is town?
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think she isn't currently I'm going through her ISO and she could be seen as scummy, except she started interacting with me. And I thought her theories are genuine and stuff. Ya know, I really thought she was doing town things. So I defended my townreads hardly. But now that a lot of people think that Titus is scum, I might as well stop my conf bias and look through her. Turns out, no actual analysis. Besides on Tywin. Only real person I feel like she's gone after. Quite frankly it seems like she wants other people to do things for her in 768

Now why is my vote on Tywin?
I think Tywin and Titus got into a Scum v Scum fight. But right now Tywin is acting anti-town. He quite frankly hasn't responded to any of the posts that I wanted him to respond to. He's just twisting what people are saying and calling them out on that. And Tywin, go keep your ego in check. 429. No one ever catches scum 100% of the time unless they know who scum are because they are scum themselves and they really wanna bus their scummates.

@LUV - Can you elaborate on this gif in words so I can tell if you're reacting to Alisae's case on Tywin, Titus, both, her assessment of them being SvS engaged in theatre, or any combination of the above? Or are you just trying to get on her good side the way you have been since when you called her "alluring?"

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Any other thoughts you'd like to share with the class?

What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?

@Kyouko:

I read some things that ping and/or worry me a bit but nothing too strong. I think I'm just going to continue to town hunt.

EBWOP

Could you elaborate on some of your stronger reads either way, or specify what things are pinging you? You're being vague, not naming names and keeping options open. This can be used by scum to blend in when they finally choose where to vote and to dodge VCA.

I'm not even sure what to do right now. Feels like the game is going nowhere. I'm not sure if it's because the same couple of voices are on every page or my lack of interest. Just going to keep it all the way real about the major shit that has gone on and say what I've been thinking

___

Alisae feels town and it has nothing to do with the crush thing I got going on. Wanting to be liked is NAI. Town generally want to be liked just as much as scum because they want their opinions and thoughts heard and taken seriously just as much scum want to blend in and deceive town into thinking their town. She's interested, engaged, and wants to sort, just doesn't effectively know how to and that's okay. The questions she's been asking read like town as well as someone new to the game because there questions you can tell haven't been seriously thought about because a majority of them don't and/or didn't help in any major in figuring out alignment and aren't ones that show any signs of scum intent. She also asks questions at a rate so frequent I don't think can come from scum when it's so easy to not give a damn and watch town self destruct with the way the game is going.

Lapsa feels town. Solely for that wagon alone.

The Titus and Ty debate is quite dumb when you get down to it really. Especially if you take away the misrepresentation about the Gladiator claim which I personally I thought how that misunderstanding occurred was explained pretty well in 752. Don't care if he lied or not at this point.

Titus didn't like Ty's answer regarding not wanting to lynch me because she felt giving me the benefit of doubt at the time was scummy. Rather than just try to get everyone to agree with that point about Ty, we get a lengthy heated back and forth that's a pain to reread which is why my take on this is mainly based on her case presented in 628. This is the only reason I've found to TR Titus, as scum she could've easily try to sell that point without drawing so much attention to herself as she did but instead she argued with her SR in a matter that definitely doesn't make me feel we have scum pushing on town or scum theatre. Ty's frustration is genuine as hell. That's really it to that TR from me. I just don't see scum getting that upset when he wasn't even in a caught for a wrong reason situation there, just accused of misrepresentation.

Transcend slot is probably town but is going to remain null for me for now. That replace out though was the most town like replace out I've ever seen.
___

So yeah, I don't know who scum is but I definitely feel like I can identify town more effectively than usual this game. I'm just a bit frustrated by all the noise and maybe it's my fault for having a life outside of this site and not trying to break it up sooner. The above should answer your 1503 Kyouko.

@LUV -

Can you elaborate on this gif in words

so I can tell if you're reacting to Alisae's case on Tywin, Titus, both, her assessment of them being SvS engaged in theatre, or any combination of the above? Or are you just trying to get on her good side the way you have been since when you called her "alluring?"

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Any other thoughts you'd like to share with the class?

What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?

@Kyouko:

I read some things that ping and/or worry me a bit but nothing too strong. I think I'm just going to continue to town hunt.

EBWOP

Could you

elaborate on some of your stronger reads either way

, or

specify what things are pinging you

? You're being vague, not naming names and keeping options open. This can be used by scum to blend in when they finally choose where to vote and to dodge VCA.

I feel like a lot of 1503 got ignored in that response. That seems like a very basic explanation of your strongest read which seems to be Tywin, but it's also a reason that's been taken from someone else who originally pointed out that Tywin's frustration seems genuinely town. Do you have any other reads that you could provide your own reasons for? You're starting to look like you're intentionally blending in. What things did you read that pinged/and or worried you? Again, you responded to it so clearly it was significant enough to you to warrant a reaction: "What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?" Can you explain what that gif of James was all about?

I'm just taking notes and trying to make sense of it all man. This is a big game so I'm taking more caution that I usually do.

My strongest TR is actually Alisae, not Ty. I thought my reasoning for why she feels town explained the James gif well but if it didn't, that gif was just a way of expressing how I felt since at one point, I was doubting my read on her until I saw that post and did another reread. The post about things that have pinged me I believe was in regards to Cloud and Pine's play so far which I touched on a bit before.

As for AJ, I responded to him voting for Alisae because of the way he sort of just just popped up of nowhere voting for her so I wanted to know if he had any other thoughts on the game at the time. My guess for the motivation is as good as yours honestly but I feel like a lot of the early wagoning on him was mainly because people weren't familiar with his personality. Other than that, I'm not really getting any idea of his alignment from his posts but I'm sure I'll be able to get more of a concrete read on him as time goes on.

Just gonna save the Alisae stuff for later (in a draft) I'm getting heated over this SK discussion and that's not very good for my health atm.

Town - Titus, Elbirn
Townlean - Cloud, Syryana, Cabd, Nero Cain

----D1 Lynch Line----

Nulltown -Gamma, Pine, Nosferatus, mozamis, Tywin
Nullscum - Sonia, Aj
Scumlean - LUV
Scum - Alisae, Lapsa

Tywin could drop again real quick depending on how he continues. Aj could rise pretty quick depending on if/how he ever comments on my comments on his case on me. Sonia is admittedly lowered by preflip associations. Gamma keeps coloring me red in his VCAs but I think his heart is in the right place. LUV has not responded adequately to direct questioning so he's still down there, and

his vote is positioned well on the Lapsa wagon to be a bus

.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So I like your reads list for the most part Kyouko, but why is Pine/Nosferatu in as null town? Have they said anything that would make you lean town, or is it just not knowing where to place them due to extreme lurking?

Pine is a really weak read, mostly have them there because they were voting Lapsa early so it's like my sonia read, based on a preflip association with Lapsa. I've got a gut read on Nosferatus, could go up or down when they post, but I'm pretty sure they're town.

Also I'm voting Lapsa now, decided to let Alisae off for now but I'll be back to her another day probably.

@Gamma

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

pedit: LUVs been given more of a pass because he's more going with the flow than blatantly buddying so it isn't as noticeable. Not saying he hasn't been buddying a couple of players like Titus/Alisae but her buddying is just egregious

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

I want you to give a solid assessment of Alisae, all on your own.

Spoiler: I did that a long time ago, she's still scum

I am specifically talking about http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67071

I can't think of any games where town Titus ignores me and then tries to wave off my vote as vindictive or something.

I'm reading this Street Fighter mafia Titus + Nero combined ISO and I don't think this is the same situation. Looks like you had a real reason to push her in that game, where she was contradicting herself in a couple of places about a wagon on Beeboy and where she wasn't defending her TR or something like that. I don't usually look at past games as evidence but I decided to this time for reasons.

Alisae, Titus, Gamma: What are your reads on the other 2 players in this list?

VOTE: Alisae
This looks scum, the buddying is stinky and she continues to sit around asking others for their opinions on situations. I don't like the show of solidarity with the Aj wagon to so quickly jump off of it. Too much fence-sitting and sheeping from this slot, and is now not voting 34 pages in.

What about not voting is scummy to you?

Not voting as town implies you have no serious scumreads. 34 pages in town should have enough reads to either sheep a wagon that is comprised of townreads or to push a strong scumread.

I noticed you voted Gamma as soon as I accused you, so I checked back on your old Gamma vote and came up with this:

Titus are ya able to articulate what those feelings are exactly?

VOTE: GammaEmerald
I'll just leave this here until I'm satisfied with you.

You moved your vote pretty quick after this to Nero when they started pushing Titus. Not sure if it's buddying town or chainsawing for your partner but either way it points to you being scum.

Okay but your read is swayed a bit too easily.

Ditto, this has seemingly been the case with all of your reads so far. You are forming reads to conform with popular belief imo. You 180d on Transcend really fast and sheeped him when me and Titus followed him. You also earlier arbitrarily TRed him for not liking walls, then went to vote him immediately when he started a wagon on Aj. After I voted Aj and Transcend called your vote on him stupid you flipped and sheeped him.

Okay but who said I fully believed in lynching you?

So, do you, or don't you fully believe in lynching the player you are now currently voting, and why?

What about not voting is scummy to you?

Not voting as town implies you have no serious scumreads. 34 pages in town should have enough reads to either sheep a wagon that is comprised of townreads or to push a strong scumread.

This is fair. In that case I'ma quickly do my reads real quickly. But I wanna see what Tywin has to say to Titus before I decide to vote him, cause right now I have good reason to, it's just I know Tywin, and I feel like I can identify if he is town or not.

So if you have good reason to vote Tywin and are only voting Gamma for pressure, why not vote the player you are more suspicious of? From what I've heard you have one game of experience with Tywin where you were both town and I don't think this is enough to be as confident as you seem to be in sorting Tywin.

I noticed you voted Gamma as soon as I accused you, so I checked back on your old Gamma vote and came up with this:

Titus are ya able to articulate what those feelings are exactly?

VOTE: GammaEmerald
I'll just leave this here until I'm satisfied with you.

You moved your vote pretty quick after this to Nero when they started pushing Titus. Not sure if it's buddying town or chainsawing for your partner but either way it points to you being scum.

A couple of questions. A. Do you think Nero saying that Titus is scum without reading what he missed seem wierd to you? To me it seemed like he didn't even care about what happened prior. He had no new reasons to think that Titus was scum until after I started questioning him, which he and Titus then supplied the reasons while that was happening.
B. How do you know it's not just my playstyle? Because it is, you want a game where most of the time I defended someone else it was a chainsaw defence and I was town? Tywin was in that game too.
C. What do you see Titus as currently?
Because if you see her as town, then me chainsawing someone you think is town does not make sense to me. Or this whole line could just be a line filled with retarded logic.

A. I reread this exchange just in case and I think Nero is towny to continue to push his strongest SR. I understand that Titus doesn't agree with why he's pushing her, and could see her reaction to the push as towny. It's still very dismissive but I think this is the result of a personality quirk in Titus. He isn't ignoring the rest of the game either, he's catching up as he discusses his Titus SR. See 831.
B. I don't know if it's your playstyle or not, which is why I'm voting you. I'm not going to assume that you always play anti-town (buddying, sheeping, handing out excessive TRs) when you're town based off of one game I didn't even participate in.
C. Titus is probably town. Even if she is scum though, your actions revolving around her could be seen as a chainsaw defence. I'm more inclined to think you're buddying town!Titus.

Okay but your read is swayed a bit too easily.

Ditto, this has seemingly been the case with all of your reads so far. You are forming reads to conform with popular belief imo. You 180d on Transcend really fast and sheeped him when me and Titus followed him. You also earlier arbitrarily TRed him for not liking walls, then went to vote him immediately when he started a wagon on Aj. After I voted Aj and Transcend called your vote on him stupid you flipped and sheeped him.

Okay but who said I fully believed in lynching you?

So, do you, or don't you fully believe in lynching the player you are now currently voting, and why?

LOL that last part. But I am mostly voting Gamma for pressure. However when it comes to Gamma, I'll stay on this wagon until I see them play the game. Much like why I hopped on the AJ wagon. I wanna see him play the game, I wanna see him give analysis on people. I want to see him do town things.
I will lynch Gamma if he doesn't do anything townish.

Seems like you're discussing a policy lynch 2 days into D1. Are you talking about deadline lynching him or sooner?

Meh, might as well update my reads on nerds now.
{Titus, Trans, Cadb, Elbrin, Me, SSBM, Lapsa, Cloudd} <--- I think these people are town.
{Nero}
{Aj}
{Nos, Moz, Sonia} <--- Null/can go either way/need to re-look over and revist.
{Pine, Uzi} <--- Reads that are getting stale
{Tywin, Gamma} <--- My lynch pool.

Lots of players in your top tier, which is the most town to you?

@Titus - My bad, didn't realize you'd already been asked.

@Alisae - "Me because of my role pm says so." Serious answer please. If you think that was a serious answer then who's your second-strongest TR?
pedit: jk

@Titus:
Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

I usually don't do these, but I'm assuming you asked me for a good reason. There are 2 townleans above and below my lynch line because some of these are in my no vote zone and others are not. Cabd would be townlean on the bottom side of the line if he wasn't in your list of top TRs.

And if I was scum, what would scum me have to gain from chainsaw defending Titus?

Towncred...

I'm not going through the last 80 pages to pull quotes on the buddying, and the fence-sitting is something she was doing early on before her reads started to meld into popular belief. I thought you were around when all this happened?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus I'm asking you again, who is your strongest TR? One name please

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Makes me question if there really is a multiball setup now, cuz why would scum be okay with bussing lapsa but not Nos?

Nos is town just happens to be busy with life p sure

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know who I'm vigging tonight.

Can I not vig the same person please.

Softing Vig and buddying the whole cast...

You know what that means

Spoiler:

You were expecting SK, but

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko youre really underestimating what a traitor would to to indicates hes the traitor to their scumteam

Doesn't this post suggest lynch Kyouko?

Hmm..

Also I haf question: Uzi flipped Vanilla Cop. The only reason for the vanilla to be in there is if there are either modifier cops (insane/naive/etc) elsewhere. So if someone also got a cop role, perhaps they are insane? Just a thought, although not sure if the modifiers are considered normal or not. I just don't really see a reason to say 'vanilla' cop if the others aren't normal anyway.

Is Tywin the first person to point toward me? First time I read that post in the context of "lynch Kyouko" I was genuinely confused. I see what people are seeing now but I haven't had time to go back and reread where the traitor talk initially started, but it was a bit before what I thought was Lapsa's traitor crumb. speaking of the Lapsa traitor crumb, why would I point that out in public instead of just talking about it in daytalk with my scumteam? Furthermore, why would I push a lynch on someone I thought was the traitor? I'm shocked that Cloud flipped scum but really glad that he flipped traitor because I feel like he might have been shot because scum thought I was the traitor after seeing Lapsa flip as town.

Something tells me my reads were not

that

far off if Mozamis is scum.

Who seriously thought scum would nk me after my day 1?

I did. I also thought Alisae would kill me if she was SK, was so happy to see the flips. Shame about losing LUV's PR but he was really hard to place for me and I thought he was scum anyways so that's one less mislynch I'd be inclined to push today.

In post 1842, CloudKicker wrote:
Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

So Titus, tywin and Aj scum?
I can totally buy that.
Apart from the massive tywin and titus spat. Epic performance if so. I know Titus is capable of that sort of game. Anyone know Tywin's game? Is he good enough to pull of that kind of stuff?

Pretty sure Titus is town. Titus and Elbirn remain unshaken reads of mine today. Knowing Lapsa is town will have to reevaluate his RVS wagon and Nero being so obstinate about that makes me think he's not scum unless the entire RVS Lapsa wagon turns out to be town in which case he'd basically be confscum in my eyes.

Yeah gunsmith suggests SK, but tbh it's a necessary evil at this point.

GS also suggests Vig.

Interesting. Why isn't that post flagging down SSM?

Which post in Cloudkicker'S ISO have you scumreading Tywin?

Any of a dozen or so where he's hard defending Tywin. If he's not CK's teammate, I could see him putting up a token defense for the "I was right" Towncred, but not going to the effort of actually derailing the wagon on him. Cloudkicker went to the mat for Tywin.

@Pine

Kyouko youre really underestimating what a traitor would to to indicates hes the traitor to their scumteam

Ehhh, not really. That's a general crumb to anyone's listening, SSBM just happened to be the one he was engaging at the time. In context of a larger conversation about Traitors which he (if memory serves) did not initiate, it's entirely NAI.

K Pine is probably town, he's the only one stepping back to look at this instead of jumping on speculation. Was hitting multiquote to full catchup from the flips but accidentally hit Quote on this post so I'll continue my catch up from here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also once SSBM gets in here I think if I read day one right we're about to get another bombshell.

Curious what this is supposed to mean because I don't have a bombshell to drop. I mean I was completely wrong about all 3 flips so far so I'll have to rethink things but I still have a few reads that are stable.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

The game.

The game who?

Get back to the fucking game. A couple of jokes were fun, but a page of them is the kind of distraction that led to an 84-page D1.

Thanks boss

I'm caught up but it was a long day at work. Going to read cloud now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think both of you are just too invested and should back off a bit, its easier to see interactions when youre outside tunnels and whatnot, alisea 2nd to last post was explicitiy scumtelling imo

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

Alisae is not scum here, especially if we ever see scum!Tywin flip. Cloud's iso as a whole points me to [Tywin, Sonia, Transcend, Gamma] for scum in order of descending suspicion. Alisae definitely not scum, Cloud was hanging onto that mislynch as long as he could and when Alisae finally calmed down he immediately backed off and went for the next easiest mislynch in the lurker Lapsa

Titus who do you see me being paired scum with?

Don't know. Not enough data, but why would you care?

Because I wanna help you scumhunt?

That's not helping scumhunt. That's pushing me down a path, which unfortunately is a different theory all together.

Also, why are you voting me if convinced I am hunting?

VOTE: Tywin
Not anymore.

For those that don't understand, I freaked out when

I was under the pressure Tywin gave me. And cause I was in that state of mind, I reacted to shit out of desperation. However, Tywin knows I react this way when I'm under a ton of fucking pressure. I think he does anyways. I think his first step to fighting Titus was to pressure me and be like "If she flips scum you're fucked." Tywin knew the buttons to push with me, so he manipulated me and pushed them. But I think he knew that he should start pushing them.

Tywin, you seem so desperate, I'm calling your bluff.

Imo that textbook mafia overexplaning their vote prior to the flip, also being proactive about being called out on it since the vote in itself is bad from her priors votes, alisea has be tuning her titus/tywin vote depending on the town swing for a good 10 ish pages now

This is Cloud pushing a

mislynch

.

yo if im wrong on tywin im wrong, i want trans read on that tho, i bet my macaroni he will agree with me

Preempting a scum!Tywin flip by saying "if I'm wrong I'm wrong" and is maybe trying to tempt scum!transcend into defending his partner. Could also be Cloud trying to buddy town!Transcend though so that's part of why he's lower on my list of suspects from the cloud iso.

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

This is where he gets onto Lapsa and his reasoning has to do with Lapsa voting Tywin. We've seen cloud and Lapsa's flips, I think this points to scum!Tywin

@ssbm get your vote in there, i see no reason why you would back off to go back on town

Cloud has already switched off Alisae (or was it Pine at this point?) onto Lapsa once he sees me start to push him. "go back on town" in this post refers to Tywin.

Lots of words

I'm sort of confused as to why you think AJ is naive for having lots of townreads he won't lynch when you basically hand your vote to two townreads

Though since I apparently have your vote please vote Titus with me kthx

Titus is town though, and neither of you have my vote. Titus and I have basically the same scumpool, but I think notable differences in our reads are at Nero and Aj. Voting with my townreads at an early stage before I develop strong SRs is not naive as you're implying though.

im fairly confident tywin is town though but i like you even if i think ure half wrong

Again, calling Tywin town. This was probably his most consistent stance all of D1, was that Tywin is town

Sonia is having the very same read that i have on tywin and we are competent enough to read into it, titus is just biased

Points to Sonia and Tywin for scum

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

This is the first and only time I see him mention Gamma which is why Gamma is the lowest on my suspect list but he repeats that Sonia has reads just like his again, maybe trying to hint that he has the same info she does?

And yea also

traitor claim

, if theres actually a traitor or not, its really great because mefia doesnt know if hes real or not and probably wont lynch him, just lynching a

traitor claim

is so good for reading interactions, mafia will find every reasons possble to not jump on it

i didnt read too mucn into your traitor crumd, im talking about the

traitor claim

Yeah, I'm still not interested in a Lypsawhateverthefuckhisnameis lynch

Pedit: whats this about lying about tywin?

Just going to mark this as fake looking and associatives with lapsa, this is the exact behavior im looking for by pushong on

traitor claim

He literally says "traitor claim" 4 times in a span of 6 posts if you read his ISO. The last time he says it he even draws attention to it with a , and the first time he says it he says "

and yea also traitor claim

, [redacted]"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

sonia titus elbirn pine are all looking bad atm, i like uzi, lap and another guy i forgot

Well we got double town flip out of this.

The thing is, I don't think CK plays a lot of OMGUS into his scum game. He constantly made a case for Alisae not being scum, points double town out of our flips etc etc. I'm wanting to lynch through his scumreads and see what pops up.

I'm about to say he was buddying Sonia to let her know he was the traitor and that he DID know (I've never seen a traitor that doesn't). In fact, some of his posts (Sonia townleading?!?! emote emote) seems sarcastic and really unneeded ambiguity that wasn't even that true in the context. (His post 668 for context).


I don't know if I'm good enough to see what triggered his death. He SRs SSBM, Seems to flip to SR Alisae, interacts weirdly with Sonia (buddying), is actually interested in Nero. Flips Lapsa once traitor is noted, which in THEORY should be when we find his crumb.

And... here it is:

Kyouko youre really underestimating what a traitor would to to indicates hes the traitor to their scumteam

VOTE: Kyouko

I think CK was hinting through him and maybe Sonia, but more sure of him.

P;edit: I'm cooking so my responses are disjointed and late.

I don't understand how anyone besides town!Tywin or town!Sonia could read that Cloud ISO and seriously think cloud was hinting more to me than Sonia

Cabd, why did you do your thingy on Titus?

This, although I'm more curious as to why you

didn't

check Alisae.

VOTE: Kyouko. L-4 now I believe

I still wanna hear from Syryana on that vigi claim that came right before Alisae countered. I believe her over him.

Sheep. You'll start shit by pointing out the post in which you think CK is trying to crumb to me but won't vote me until you see my wagon gain traction. Could say the same of Titus here tbh, putting a bit of a shake in my read on her. Maybe understandable given how she feels about scrapping her reads after the cloud flip though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Damn nevermind. Thought ssbm was softing mason. Theory canceled. Woulda put us at 5.5 confirmed on day two. With a vig slash leashed SK.

I thought it was a literal mason claim/crumb. Obviously that's not the case so eh

Why would Mason's even give that crumb? It's not necessary unless Kyouko or his partner were at L1 with intent to hammer given. Then he'd say it. It's useless right now to give that info out. There's not enough sure-fire TRs after the recent flips to create a town bloc, and it's not optimal Mason play to tell anyone with so many unconfirmed and nowhere near Lylo. Mason's shouldn't crumb yet, and so why are you looking for it? To create a theory? Why not find scum one player at a time? We need an actual scum flip before theories are even close to useful right now. Please try to remember that.

Yeah I'm not a mason. Idk about a mozamis wagon though. The things she say really ping me but I feel like it's because I disagree with most everything she says, not because I think they're scummy. Like she has her own view of the game that's just different than mine

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've had Kyouko pinned as scum since yesterday. I don't see this town motivation everyone else is talking about from that slot, it all looks calculated at best.

I don't think "everyone else" (whoever that means) is even saying I have town motivation. I do, of course, but I don't think anyone has really been rushing to my defense (especially D1) except Pine now. Even Titus was on me earlier I think and I feel like she was one of the few to TR me D1. What about my play looks calculated to you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Titus - Wait, Elbirn? Why Elbirn? I'm starting to get suspicious I might have misunderstood you yesterday.
What do you think of Syryana joking about vigging Alisae?

@Alisae - Are there any restrictions on when you can kill besides during the night phase?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm going to go back and look for the players that were hard reading Tywin as town for the way he got riled up and then calmed down. I know I ended up pushing my read on him aside because I saw him calming down

and

I saw several people hard reading him as town. One of those was Cloud, which was probably the player that convinced me the most to put aside that read. Obviously after that flip I'm not so sure about how right I was to do that.
I also saw Gamma do it here:

tbh I think Tywin!town isn't such a wild thought. He managed to level his thoughts and become rational.

I'm going to look for more players saying this and see who says it first, who says it most often, etc. Try to see if a vocal minority (scumteam) is trying to derail Tywin's wagon for some reason, whether because Tywin claimed vanilla or because Tywin is a part of their team.
I will say that going back to this Lapsa wagon of [Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Cabd] that the prime candidate for scum on it fmpov is Gamma. Alisae is clearly either SK or Vig which means she's not scum, Pine's vote was the first on the wagon so is less suspicious than the later ones, plus he's starting to look town today. Been waffling a bit on Cabd but I'm not shook yet. He's still town for me and Titus is still my rock today
Right now, before looking for who else was calling Tywin town, suspicions are on Gamma/Tywin, but if Alisae is at least thinking of killing Tywin tonight I'm looking elsewhere for now. If I had to pick one from your list Titus it would be mozamis but I don't think that's the best course for today. Going to wait for Gamma's catchup before I decided if I want to vote him though

@Alisae, will you consider shooting Tywin tonight? (Don't want your shot locked in there b/c it helps scum to know where you're shooting) If so I'll unvote for now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ok Alisae that answer works. Also I think I found an Alisae vig crumb while rereading the great Tywin fiasco looking for who was reading him as town to see if it looked like a scumteam derailing his lynch (mostly inconclusive so far, but Gamma is probably town regardless of Tywin's alignment). Check the bolded in her post out:

I'm done with this shit.

Dayvig: Tywin Lannister

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

These are the notable posts I found while rereading that area. Basically these posts lead me to believe that Gamma is town for his resistance to the rest of the players calling Tywin town. In order, those players were Cloud, Cabd, Lapsa, Sonia, Me, I think. Cloud was the main force before the Tywin claim, but soon after the claim Cabd started reasoning with Tywin, then Lapsa said he would not participate in Tywin or Aj lynches today, then Sonia used a "^" symbol to say she also would not participate in those lynches. I later hesitantly said that Tywin was starting to behave townie but I'd be keeping an eye on him. Knowing Lapsa is town I'm looking at Sonia/Cabd, but the problem with that is that Titus doesn't want either of them lynched. I need to know which one you won't lynch because the other is scum, unless you've been misleading me in your answers to my questions Titus. You know which ones I'm referring to. Also looking towards Syryana for the Cloud comment about betting his macaroni that Transcend would agree with him on Tywin. Lapsa provides a genuine reason to not lynch Aj/Tywin, and I feel like sonia hops onto the town!Tywin train of thought rather quickly when the wind shifts, because she seemed pretty emotionally invested in the push on Tywin but the feeling in her posts evaporated unnaturally.

Spoiler:

btw im calling a tvst tywin titus

Really CK? T v T?

Alisea is milking it too

i also hard tr tywin

I think both of you are just too invested and should back off a bit, its easier to see interactions when youre outside tunnels and whatnot, alisea 2nd to last post was explicitiy scumtelling imo

I dont buy twin scum being this obstinated and going after you so hard d1

yo if im wrong on tywin im wrong, i want trans read on that tho, i bet my macaroni he will agree with me

VOTE: Tywin

So 1 of 2 things happened

Either
A) Tywin saw my wall post thought it was towny and ignored giving me an answer when I asked him not once but twice
or
B) I somehow towntold after he made a giant case on me from being number 2 scum with Titus to "Pro Town"

What am I at? L1 or close to it? I'm a straight up vanilla townie. To be exact, there isn't even a vanilla in there. It's just 'townie.'

To answer Sonia: there are 50+ pages on D1. You say I missed your post? Well no shit? I can't reply to 50 pages worth of garbage and hope to find one diamond in the rough. It will literally take HOURS of reading. You can forget that. I'm not gonna do it after seeing very few of you truly evaluating the game if you think I'm scum. I say it over and over again, and I will keep saying it until I'm lynched and flip town. Titus is scum. Remember that after I'm

50 pages is too much to have any say here. It's a shit show right now full of fluff and bad posts. Nobody knows a damn thing with all this useless posting. It shows that nobody is even attempting to sit and think about what's what. 50 pages means D1 is a wash. Way to go town. You'll get a mislynch on D1 and no info out of it. Titus will use that to her advantage to get anyone else who claims she is scum as the next few day's mislynches, because a lot of you seem to be sheep here. It's ridiculous, but I don't see anything changing with 50 pages of useless posting going on. It's really bad and completely demoralizing. I had almost all weekend off, and I can't keep up with this thread. Do none of you have responsibilities or jobs? There are multiple players complaining on this thread about the length and the insane amount of posts. It's not a good thing for town. Scum can and do hide in shit show threads like this.

Anyway, again, I am town. Titus is scum. Take from that what you will after I'm lynched.

I'm asking you to answer my post as you made a giant case on me and I went from sr number 2 to pro town
that's the annoying part
UNVOTE:

FWIW I'm not voting for Tywin today. He's very obviously frustrated railroaded town.

Shame on those of you that are taking him as scum. He can be town who found scum-titus or town that mistook town-titus for scum titus but the frustration and emotion is genuine town with a capital T.

Tywin, let's chat real quick. A large part of your Titus case is that the logic Titus is using is so ~wrong~ it has to come from scum, right?

FWIW I'm not voting for Tywin today. He's very obviously frustrated railroaded town.

Shame on those of you that are taking him as scum. He can be town who found scum-titus or town that mistook town-titus for scum titus but the frustration and emotion is genuine town with a capital T.

Tywin, let's chat real quick. A large part of your Titus case is that the logic Titus is using is so ~wrong~ it has to come from scum, right?

Look at how he talks about a scumread like they are town.

I won't participate in Tywin and Aj lynches today.

^

Gamma, you're scummy

for ignoring Titus and focusing your entire attention on townies.

I do have to admit, the gladiate, if real, neuters my vca too...

This is horrible. VCA still works with gladiation.

No. It really doesn't. I have been reading through here and every post here is theory and a good chunk is wrong. VCA centers on the choices made. Gladiation artificially removes choices from the game, limiting data points.

Since I am making a post educating you, here's what you need for a good VCA

1) Every vote count colored, without bias of town by play
2) A scum flip not caused by a guilty/gladiator
3) 3 days of data to work with
4) A good understanding of optimal town and scum play
5) The ability to filter a VI.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I will get back to reading. If I only see more bad theory spec that makes me rip my hair out, I will be annoyed.

Jesus Christ, pot meet kettle.

Titus is the player that called 4 players the scum team and conf biases everything over her bad theory in hopes of proving it right somehow. It's the definition of a bad theory,

yet she has the nerve to call out Gamma

? Wow. Misplaced fucking ego that is.

Does this look logical to anyone? It looks fake as shit to me. It feels like he knows I'm town in the second post.

Cabs acknowledge my point.

btw i told yall tywin was town

Why does the later have to be the only possibility? You can't call somebody out for doing something illogical unless you ALSO think they're town?

And it's also just as possible he thinks it's a binary state that has: one of {gamma, titus} is scum? As in "both could be scum but they are most likely not scum together"

By no means am I ruling out your line of questioning as a possibility. I just don't see it as the cardinal sin you seem to think it is.

There's also his blatantly false accusation of Titus not asking him questions.

mm, that said

UNVOTE:

Jesus christ this thread did not need 15 more pages overnight, what were you people doing at 3am? I for one sleep.

it annoys me to no end that I have posted, multiple times, why I think Titus is scum and both Ali and Elbrin are acting like it never happened.

Nero your case on titus is that she was the 3rd person to vote on a wagon. You were about to vote gamma instead until you realized it was titus. Which is just....I can't fuck with that. There's no sense there.

"But she also ignored me!"

Yes, yes she did.

I also don't like that there doesn't seem to be any signs of scum hunting or attempts to do so in his ISO.

Ah, that old "he hasn't done anything disregard everything he's said" line. Classic meme bro

The "this guy is doing nothing" logic pisses me off.

Is this directed towards me or uzi?
Because in my view, it's a pretty scum move to, instead of doing any substantial analysis of a player, throw your hands up and say "they haven't done anything. I am throwing shit on their play as a whole. It's literally all bad."

Uzi/Elibirn: I dont like the gladiator claim, but apparently fake claims in mafiascum meta is okay. Elibirn doubled down on it when others took it as a joke, but it's largely null. I do think fake claims are scummy and idk why it's okay in mafiascum, but it is what it is. Uzi/Elibirn could be TvT, but I think one of them are scum. Idk which one, but Titus has weak associations with either one. Her entire scum claim on me was my 'it's only fair' post asking for Uzi to give his reasoning on voting Elibirn. Then again, Elibirn could be scum and Uzi town. Neither are a good lynch today, so this whole point is moot.

Your position here is really bleh. It's flipfloppy as you don't commit to a stance on either of us, saying "it could be TvT, but I think one could be scum, but gee it could be either". It's a lot of words that don't add up to any meaningful analysis and set you up to lynch either of us later. It's weak sauce and it makes me sadface.

It's even more bleh because I think you're town and my original point in talking about this was thus made void when 10 pages of reading later I decided you were town. But this is scummy, m8, don't do this.

I think only Elbin and Alisae and Titus herself think she's the town leader

Me thinking titus is town =/= me thinking titus is town leader

Clearly I am the town president and all other town and all other town are members of my administration

Really? Why are you constantly asking asinine questions?

Okay, here's an example for you:

Titus is scum buddies with Alisae. Without day talk, Alisae is extreme newbscum and doesn't know to not buddy her scum team in-thread. She thinks that's how to play, but obviously Titus can't go and say 'hey Alisae, calm down there buddy, you'll get us both caught!' Without day talk, newbscum Alisae does what she does.

With day talk, the experienced scum would calm her the fuck down and try to minimize her mistakes.

Now that you have the knowledge that day talk is in this game, don't you think that alisae would be more cautious to buddy titus if they were both scum? That titus would use the day talk to say "hey don't do that"

Yet Titus' case on me is good? She said my post asking for Uzi to answer Elibrin's question and saying 'it's only fair' was the scum tell of the century. Really? Now that is fucking terrible, but a lot of you latched onto that as if it was legitimate. Do you even know what my case is? Why defend Titus without looking at what she's done? You're ISOing me a lot apparently, but ignoring others. Why?

*raises hand* hi yes me again tywin, I never bought into that as a scum tell and idk if anyone else did pls calm down

btw im calling a tvst tywin titus

T v S?

t vs t*

Cloud gets things, good for cloud

So, what is your read on me Alisae?

If Tywin flips scum, town. If Tywin flips town, scum.

And Tywin just said he would self-hammer himself. I KNOW Tywin is the kind of person to claim at L-1 instead of self-hammer if he was town. Becuase he knows that is a townie thing to do. He's not trying to prove to us that he's town, he's trying to prove that Titus is scum. And I'm fucking taking his bluff.

Dichotomies are scummy as fuck

About tywin wagon, some of his line looks like genuine frustrated town, even the self comment didnt comme off as forced to me, i once said and did that as town not so long ago with great success, i also was correct about my deathtunnel

More cloud being right

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alisae

Choo Choo everyone!

Unofficial VC

Titus 3 (Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister, mozamis)
Alisae 2 (Aj The Epic, Elbirn)
Aj The Epic 1 (Transcend)
Lapsa 1 (Pine)
Tywin 4 (Titus, Gamma, Alisae, ssbm_Kyouko)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatus)

Not Voting 5 (Lapsa, Cabd, xSoniaNevermindx, Lil Uzi Vert, CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Did this on my phone but I think it's accurate

Lapsa, you want to talk about anyone but Tywin (not Tywin out of respect for Cabd)?

Townread Tywin around spaghetti.

What else assumptions have you made?

Sub out.

Sorry to do this, but the game exploded with lots of long posts and I'm kinda busy with life. Apologies.

Alisae and Kyouko need to be revisited. That should be the next course of action. So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing, so I think bouncing onward for now is worth while. Both Kyouko and Alisae have been suspect in the last few pages for various reasons and out of the list of people available to be looked into, these two make the most sense for scum.

So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing

?

On day 1, being able to quickly cycle through not only the baseline of suspicious people, but the people who have made votes that were suspicious, is a great plus. My general theory of the game is that town can never be more powerful than D2/N3/D3 so getting this much positive information day 1 to have actually formed a town core that we can be reasonably confident in is a win in and of itself.

Okay: Titus; assuming for a second tywin is town; does your pick for the "other" parts of the scumteam change? Who is your top suspect going into day two if tywin is lynched flips VT and I get shot overnight?

Tywin; who is your highest non-titus pick for scum right now?

Lapsa is probably still scum.

Alisae I have a desperate to survive read on and I would compromise there, but I would be gambling.

Move towards investigating/voting there then. I will personally burn all of my townie brownies to derail a lynch on tywin today if you try. We can revisit tomorrow (or later today if those paths prove not that great) if things change but as of right now I see nothing but a death tunnel and your arguments so far have not convinced me. You can either grind up against me and maybe get it pushed through or work with me and make this thread less toxic. Your call.

Ok, Captain Planet is here to clean up this toxic thread. I will shut up about Titus, and do my best to ignore further... Whatever. Cabd gets my TLeader nomination for even trying to mediate it. Scum would be more than happy to let this fester, especially if it's TvT (which neither Titus or I think it is).

Still at work, but will give updated reads when I get a chance to really catch up again. I have about 15 pages to read it looks like, and I skimmed most of the previous 30 as well. Even if Titus is scum, she's not the only one, so it's a pointless venture to keep it going until one of us (probably me) gets lynched. Town will be no closer to finding the other scum, and so I think even keeping this 1v1 with Titus up would be anti-town on my part. I'll drop it.

Cabd, there's a wagon on Twyin for a reason. If I was alone in scumreading Tywin, I would do as you ask. You do not need to babysit me. You need to realize that may I am right. You need to realize that players like Tywin, that if town, need to read the game. We cannot have players like Tywin who ask twice, after mod confirmation, if scum have daychat. That type of player is not engaged in intelligent thought but posts garbage that makes the game impossible, regardless of his alignment. All Tywin has done is attack obvious town. If no one agreed with me, your call would have more use. It doesn't.

If the group decides to spare Tywin, I will unvote him. Not before. We have a pretty solid fucking townblock, so we can remove players like Tywin.

We still don't NEED to go for his removal. The thing is, we also aren't required to listen to him until her decides to post something that isn't him calling out non-existent attacks.

There ARE, as I said, other things to get done. Aka Kyouko and Alisae.

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

I'm still willing to lynch this fyi

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

I'm still willing to lynch this fyi

Why? Just because someone doesn't like me is not grounds for lynching.

Gamma annoys me and I want to bias lynch him. Can get behind that wagon
I don't see it as omgus more just as dislike that he thinks I'd slip as scum and he hasn't done anything.

Tldr of gamma's iso: Shade throwing with shallow comments.

AHAHA YOU'RE SCUM.
Read my catchup.

Well that's because I'M NOT CAUGHT UP, MEANING I CAN'T ANALYZE JACK SHIT!

My catchup starts after this post and goes on until my bracketed reads

*sing song voice* all I hear is excusessss

Can we lynch obvscum Sonia?

also, can you be a dear SSMB and walk me through your reasoning for dropping your scum read on Titus and then town reading her?

We've already had this conversation and like I said if you missed it I can't point it out for you, not yet at least. Also want to say if you're caught up like you say you are you should have seen that I didn't SR Titus for being on the lapsa wagon, I had a heightened suspicion of her and the rest of those players. Being on that wagon shifted them into my null scum pile. I treat null scum, scumleans, and scumreads as different things. Not sure if you do though so maybe that's why you're saying I was SRing her

I am caught up save for whats been posted today

I'm cheering because you're a hypocrite. And I have a TR on both Titus and AJ fyi
I do love all these idiots shouting "town v town!" though.

Nvm, maybe you didn't TR me. I saw this originally and didn't see the AJ part. I thought you said 'I have a town read on both of you.' Guess you caught me in another lie /s

You TR Titus and AJ I guess. Looks odd to me. I SR them both. You included. Funny. Who are the idiots you mentioned claiming TvT?

And I'll repeat my question: if I get lynched and flip town, will your reads change?

This is a townie way to handle being caught misunderstanding a post, you admit to it and look back to clarify what really happened and go from there.

Also the links in that post work from desktop, I think it's your phone having a problem

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

VOTE: Sonia
Could do Syryana today considering Cloud's intro to the game and the macaroni comment. Imo people tend to crumb in their very early posts if they're going to crumb because they think that's where it will blend in the best, with the rest of the "unusual" posts of RVS.

Hello sonia transcend <3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

Not lynching Titus, Alisae, Nosferatu, or Cabd today. Might not lynch Sonia depending on how Titus answers, but I don't think she has an answer to convince me of Sonia's towniness. Gamma and Aj I'm starting to like for town after reading yesterday's posts without confbias glasses on Aj, and seeing how Gamma reacted to the people cliaming Tywin was town. His progression from scum!Tywin to town!Tywin read looked like mine and I'm town so I think he was also swayed by the opinions of his TRs.

That leaves Nero, Mozamis, Pine, Elbirn (I totally forgot to mention Elbirn was one of the people TRing Tywin in my last post), Syryana, and Tywin. Looking at the lynch wagon and the RVS wagon side by side, (blue being town fmpov, red/green being confirmed):

Lapsa Wagons

Lapsa

5 (Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

• Nero - He may be scum that saw that Lapsa reached a 5-person wagon comprised entirely of town and decided that would be an easy excuse to FoS town all day and not have to look at his partners. The same could be said of me for a while but I eventually started looking outside of this wagon when nothing was really adding up. He didn't. scum!Nero flip would be extremely telling of the first wagon's alignment imo.
  
• Mozamis - I don't recall her stance on Lapsa. She spent a lot of the day catching up but the things she did say, like I said earlier, pinged me more on how starkly contrasting they were to my own views than how scummy they seemed. I'll have to reread/question her to come to something conclusive there.
  
• Pine - His vote was only ever on Lapsa yesterday I think (after a page 1 Cabd vote) because he was gone almost all day and that was where he set his vote when Lapsa started attacking Cabd's joke mason claim. Today he's seemed towny enough but we'll see how that progresses. Yesterday's lurk could have been scum that saw that he was the first vote on what looked to him like an all town L-2 wagon on another town (scum!Pine wouldn't have known Cloud was scum), and decided instead of wallposting his catchup like he promised, that he would just let us mislynch Lapsa.
  
• Elbirn - He was never really pointed at by Cloud yesterday so I hesitate to say he's the scum on the Lapsa RVS wagon. He did later TR Tywin though, but his vote was on Nosferatu at the end of the day with Sonia's. Can't really fault him for having a different read on Nos than me but I've been suspicious of the players that pushed Nos rather than Pine. If Pine were scum it would explain that trend I think.
  
• Syryana - Looking at Cloud's first post in thread and the way cloud tried to lead Transcend into defending Tywin I think he would make sense as scum with Tywin. I got town feels from Transcend though so I'm not really set on scumreading this. He's the only vote on the final Lapsa wagon that looks scum to me though so I've got my eye on him.
  
• Tywin - It's still hard to say if his emotional posting was frustrated town or frustrated scum. It's hard for me to let go of pushing this scumread but I'm willing to put it on the back burner knowing he might get vigged tonight. The fact remains he was misrepping Titus and refused to acknowledge it when his misreps were quoted though. If we can't come to a good decision by deadline this is the best lynch imo.
  
  Summary:
  Town: Titus, Alisae*, Cabd
  Townlean: Gamma, Aj, Nosferatus
  
  ------Lynch Line------
  
  Nullscum: Nero, Mozamis, Elbirn, Pine
  Scumlean:Sonia**, Syryana,
  Scum: Tywin
  
  *Could still be SK, but less likely now than yesterday
  **Could rise depending on how Titus justifies not lynching her
  
  [Elbirn, Pine, Mozamis, Syryana] would be a nice scumpool if Titus can convince me Sonia is town. That pool would work with town!Nero also, considering Elbirn being on the RVS wagon but missing from the final wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not lynching Titus, Alisae, Nosferatu, or Cabd today. Might not lynch Sonia depending on how Titus answers, but I don't think she has an answer to convince me of Sonia's towniness. Gamma and Aj I'm starting to like for town after reading yesterday's posts without confbias glasses on Aj, and seeing how Gamma reacted to the people cliaming Tywin was town. His progression from scum!Tywin to town!Tywin read looked like mine and I'm town so I think he was also swayed by the opinions of his TRs.

That leaves Nero, Mozamis, Pine, Elbirn (I totally forgot to mention Elbirn was one of the people TRing Tywin in my last post), Syryana, and Tywin. Looking at the lynch wagon and the RVS wagon side by side, (blue being town fmpov, red/green being confirmed):

Lapsa Wagons

Lapsa

5 (Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

• Nero - He may be scum that saw that Lapsa reached a 5-person wagon comprised entirely of town and decided that would be an easy excuse to FoS town all day and not have to look at his partners. The same could be said of me for a while but I eventually started looking outside of this wagon when nothing was really adding up. He didn't. scum!Nero flip would be extremely telling of the first wagon's alignment imo.
  
• Mozamis - I don't recall her stance on Lapsa. She spent a lot of the day catching up but the things she did say, like I said earlier, pinged me more on how starkly contrasting they were to my own views than how scummy they seemed. I'll have to reread/question her to come to something conclusive there.
  
• Pine - His vote was only ever on Lapsa yesterday I think (after a page 1 Cabd vote) because he was gone almost all day and that was where he set his vote when Lapsa started attacking Cabd's joke mason claim. Today he's seemed towny enough but we'll see how that progresses. Yesterday's lurk could have been scum that saw that he was the first vote on what looked to him like an all town L-2 wagon on another town (scum!Pine wouldn't have known Cloud was scum), and decided instead of wallposting his catchup like he promised, that he would just let us mislynch Lapsa.
  
• Elbirn - He was never really pointed at by Cloud yesterday so I hesitate to say he's the scum on the Lapsa RVS wagon. He did later TR Tywin though, but his vote was on Nosferatu at the end of the day with Sonia's. Can't really fault him for having a different read on Nos than me but I've been suspicious of the players that pushed Nos rather than Pine. If Pine were scum it would explain that trend I think.
  
• Syryana - Looking at Cloud's first post in thread and the way cloud tried to lead Transcend into defending Tywin I think he would make sense as scum with Tywin. I got town feels from Transcend though so I'm not really set on scumreading this. He's the only vote on the final Lapsa wagon that looks scum to me though so I've got my eye on him.
  
• Tywin - It's still hard to say if his emotional posting was frustrated town or frustrated scum. It's hard for me to let go of pushing this scumread but I'm willing to put it on the back burner knowing he might get vigged tonight. The fact remains he was misrepping Titus and refused to acknowledge it when his misreps were quoted though. If we can't come to a good decision by deadline this is the best lynch imo.

Summary:
Town: Titus, Alisae*, Cabd
Townlean: Gamma, Aj, Nosferatus

------Lynch Line------

Nullscum: Nero, Mozamis, Elbirn, Pine
Scumlean:Sonia**, Syryana,
Scum: Tywin

*Could still be SK, but less likely now than yesterday
**Could rise depending on how Titus justifies not lynching her

[Elbirn, Pine, Mozamis, Syryana] would be a nice scumpool if Titus can convince me Sonia is town. That pool would work with town!Nero also, considering Elbirn being on the RVS wagon but missing from the final wagon.

Edited formatting

@Mod, please spoiler my above post if you get a chance

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Alisae - He still looks like scum from the blatant disregard for the evidence that shows him misrepping Titus. It's not out of the question that Cloud was looking for towncred with how hard he was proclaiming Tywin was town though, which points to town!Tywin. He's not in my scumpool there because I expect you will decide on him tonight, and I don't think he should be the focus of investigation today. Rather, I think we will be able to settle on a lynch that will indicate Tywin's alignment post-flip. That will help you decide if he's town or scum, and then you will either shoot him or you won't.

What is this responding to? It's not a Traitor crumb for your scumteam is it?

It is a traitor crumb for my scumteam.

Also worth noting that after this post that the scumteam might have wanted to avoid lynching Lapsa because they might have believed this. If that's the case his wagon very well could have been all town, minus the only scum that knew Lapsa wasn't the traitor: Cloud, the real traitor.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Elbrin prob town. Unpressurised fake claims are normally town on this site. Scum tend not to like putting the spotlight on them.
So he is now my strimgest town read.

This looks like an overexplained stretch of a town read and wouldn't be surprised to see these flip scum together

Ok just speed reading thru, so gonna give out "gut reads".
Tywin postin too much for scum? Sure I said that sarcastically, but he really is sticking his neck out. Tempering my scum read

SSbm town? His p #455 giving reads, trying tentatively to work out set up, which seems town.

Jeez Sonia punctuate if you want to be read.

But town since she is stream of consciousness

? p459

Cloud is town. He is saying things as he sees them.

Cabd looks really town. Unfortunately, he is a good player, so that means nothing. Null.

Lapsa lurkery scum

?

ITS THE OLD PROBLEM, THE THREAD IS PROBABLY NINETY PER CENT TOWN. I'm ALWAYS UP FOR LYNCHING LURKERS, SINCE HIGH PROBABLITY OF SCUM. Worst case you get rid of useless town.

Certainly out of the "big guns", I'd be most willing to take a punt on itus, who I am sure is more "one- linery" than she was. Lots of activity, but where are the stribg reads?

More to come after tea! I know you can't wait for more Mozza

Here's my issue with the bolded bits:
That's another fishy reason to townread someone in Sonia. If Cabd looks really town then why can't he be town? Looks like an excuse for scum to keep obvtown!Cabd open as a lynch option by throwing doubt into town's mind about if he's faking it or not

People who arent posting/lurkers
LIL, NERO, NERFS, TRANSCEND.

Bound to be at least one scum here.

Nerfs is Nosferatus I'm pretty sure. We've seen LUV (LIL) flip town, which leaves Nero and Transcend. Strange that she leaves Pine off this list, when he was lurking more than Transcend/Nero (but not Nosferatus) at the time.

And AJ

She adds Aj, so she clearly rethinks her list, but still doesn't come up with Pine.

I'm up for the Gamma wagon as well, but

only for reasons of lurkery

.
Titus is scum, she's a shadow of her town self...

Emphasis on lurking again, still no mention of Pine. Scum trying to distract town from the scum lurkers and point us towards the town lurkers imo.

OK, caught up.

Town: Me, Sonia, Cloud.
Prob town: SSBm, ELbirn. Pine

Null: Cabd, AJ, Uzi, Nero, Gamma, Transcend, Nosferatu

Pos scum: Twin, Lapsa, Alisea

Scum: Titus.

First reads list, and she says she's caught up. For all the emphasis she's had on lynching lurkers I think Pine is absurdly high on this list. Lots of nulls leaves options open for bussing and mislynching. Tywin might be a bus here.

and without day talk, Titus can't reprimand Alisae for the blatant buddying. That will happen N1 IMO.

Yeah, townslip surely.

Indicating belief that Tywin has townslipped, gross.

He hasn't shown any signs of backing down when presented with evidence showing why his argument is wrong. This is scummy.

Not really. Town can be obstinate as hell. If not more so than scum, who tend to back down 'cos they dont want an argument/piss anyone off.
Which is another reason why Tywin is prob town.

Further defense of a slot she scumreads in her last reads list

Moz, is there anything about Tywin that could make people think that he is scummy?

Not anymore. The guy should get an oscar if he's faking it.

Still defending Tywin

So my biggest change is obviously Tywin, who is town.
Titus...aaaah, i dunno. She is voting Lapsa. Which seems town. But could be a bus. She still seems a pale imitation of town Titus.
Voting either Titus or Lapsa cant be bad anyway.

Alisea less scummy.

Cabd prob town. Gotta hope so, anyway. Surely even scum Cabd wouldnt be this involved.
Cloud and Sonia strong town.

Evryone else...weak town or null i guess.
Nero worries me a bit. Another strong player who is normally more "in-yer-face", if i remember correctly.
It's 3 Am so this isnt the best list ever.
But it's my stand out thoughts.
We should lynch:
TITUS, LAPSA, NOSFER, UZI.
Maybe some other lurker I've forgotten.
We should get Titus lynched though.

This lynch list is half conftown and half my strong TRs. Still forgets about Pine, but it is admittedly 3am and she says "Maybe some other lurker I've forgotten"

Why is Lapsa at l-2 again? I want blood but if it's lurker blood I want nosferatu

Agree.
Tbh, I suspect many of the votes on Lpasa, including mine, are based on a vgue impression that he 1) lurked 2) opportunitic vote on Tywin.
But 2)...well, he could be rash town as well, so god knows.

Last ditch effort for scum to derail the wagon on the player they think is their traitor?
Let's lynch in here today and if one flips scum shoot the other

VOTE: Mozamis

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also if we lynch there and 1 flips scum and then ali shoots the other and that flips scum too, lynch pine tomorrow for swift justice

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The other being? I think I may or may have not have missed it in your post ;~;

Oh scum Kyouko is telling you to shoot me, which is really fucking stupid.

Awful lotta shade throwing towards me lately actually, hope you're ready for me to throw another hissy fit

I'm telling her to shoot you if mozamis flips scum, and to shoot mozamis if you flip scum, based on this post:

Why is Lapsa at l-2 again? I want blood but if it's lurker blood I want nosferatu

Agree.
Tbh, I suspect many of the votes on Lpasa, including mine, are based on a vgue impression that he 1) lurked 2) opportunitic vote on Tywin.
But 2)...well, he could be rash town as well, so god knows.

Anyway @Kyouko

You bring up pine and Moz as a connection because moz pushes lurkers but never brings up pine. I'd think that scum would be more concious of who their teammates are and what they're doing. If moz is scum I'd expect him to have his mates as reads one way or the other.

Idk I don't really have anything else to add, it's Christmas I'm busy. I found your point interesting that scum could have avoided the Lapsa wagon or built a counter one, believing him to be the traitor, but don't believe it would be completely devoid of scum. At any rate I'll have to think about it because I was already going with a theory that scum saw a nos wagon and then said "no" and finished pushing through that Lapsa wagon.

*headscratch* but this all depends on whether or not you're scum and there's the cloud thing look fucking it's Christmas I'll talk to you people later

Well Moz TRed Pine for his early activity and then just excused his lurking for the rest of the day. She confirms this in one of her posts today, saying he looks like he was coasting off an early strong town-looking start. Pretty sure Pine's in the upper town half of her early reads lists and then just gets left off her list in the next reads post in which she talks about lynching LUV, Nosferatus, Lapsa, or Titus. Also Nos is town so I don't see scum ignoring that wagon, especially since her mislynch would give almost no information to town considering how little she'd posted. She would be a prime mislynch target because of that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

wouldn't want to upsetti mr. mozetti

The problem is that if Mozamis treats one lurker differently than another then it suggests he knows something about the odd lurker out. The only way he'd know that is if he were a mason or scum, and he's not a mason. I've clarified you 2 should only be shot at it the other flips scum. That's not the kind of pre-flip association that is wrong to make. It's wrong to say "Mozamis is scummy and looks like he's with Elbirn so we should lynch/vig Elbirn before we see what Mozamis is." That's not what I'm saying. I think Mozamis is scummy, and I think that post implicates you with him if he ever flips scum. Maybe him agreeing with you was scum!Mozamis jumping on a townie's idea in order to confuse associations in the case of a flip. That's still a possibility, but it doesn't make him any less scummy.

idk, if you can't see town!Nosferatus from her ISO alone I don't know how to explain it. She screams town to me though.

I didn't say lynching lurkers was bad, I said Mozamis is separating one lurker from the rest on a consistent basis as he pushes for us to lynch lurkers. It's a contradiction, and I think his remarks directed at Pine today lack conviction, which indicates to me he is not serious in his questioning of Pine's activity. If it makes you feel better Elbirn I'd suggest Alisae pick between you and Pine if Mozamis flips scum today. Pine would probably be the better shot in that scenario anyways, I just don't like 2016. It really pings my scumdar.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mozamis if your reads were any worse, I'd wonder if you were reading the wrong thread.

The fun thing of your read on me is you refuse to explain it and now go after a 'lack of content' when Cabd was asking us to hold off on speed wagoning this obvious scumslot in SSBM_Kyouko

Just so we're clear Cabd never called me obvious scum (at least not on D2, and I don't think he did D1), that's Aj. Cabd told people not to speed wagon me, but Aj is the one calling me scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The point is Cabd is a lot more widely credible than you are right now and I'm pointing that out right away so people don't get it twisted

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you see your own words as less valuable than cabd's, sure

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you see why town would want to make people think their own idea was someone else's?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people:
Sonia
Tywin
Nos

Nos is town gun to my head fwiw

That said; Titus; mason buddy of mine; where's your head now that xmas is over and lynchmas is on?

Is this a hard claim because you 2 have been crumbing it long enough and that's the only reason I can think you would claim a 1-shot GS on her when the clear call for 1-shot GS would be to check the SK suspect. Had you down to 1 of 2-3 possible Titus mason partners yesterday and I've been itching to say something since so many were SRing Titus yesterday.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people:
Sonia
Tywin
Nos

Nos is town gun to my head fwiw

That said; Titus; mason buddy of mine; where's your head now that xmas is over and lynchmas is on?

Is this a hard claim because you 2 have been crumbing it long enough and that's the only reason I can think you would claim a 1-shot GS on her when the clear call for 1-shot GS would be to check the SK suspect. Had you down to 1 of 2-3 possible Titus mason partners yesterday and I've been itching to say something since so many were SRing Titus yesterday.

Why are you mason hunting? Why did you suppose I had a mason?

Masons are town. Knowing who town is makes it easier to decide who to lynch. I saw you crumb it, just going to post the first crumb I noticed for now. If you want I'll post everything that made me think you're a mason and why I ended up thinking Cabd was your partner, but that will take a lot of ISO scrolling and would probably be a waste of effort. In case they're scum faking it and I die later on, town should multi-ISO Titus and I to see for themselves the clues are there. Not all of them are in that multi-ISO but there are indicators

*looks at Alisae*

Lapsa probably isn't town. Sonia should be higher. AJ lower. Pine isn't posting excessively elsewhere to the point where lowering him is warranted. Moz is still likely town.

*searches for

brick

wall*

If this wasn't a crumb what was it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

btw we never really talked about this, but now that we've seen a traitor I decided to look at the archives and I think we're looking at 4 scum total. There are 4 games with traitors in the archives. 3 of those games were 16, 19, and 21 players total with 3 scum + a traitor. ika/Titus's NY180 is a 21 player game with 4 scum + a traitor + a mass murderer (old name for SK?), but town had a good amount of stopping power for the kills (2 non-consecutive night doctors, a 3-shot commuter), and a vengeful that could reflexively kill any scum that night-killed it so until we see a vengeful flip I think 4 scum is the best assumption. That means 3 left, for anyone trying to look for team associations. Also might be helpful to look at Cloud's interactions with the assumption he knows only 3 players are scum in case it looks like there could be a 4th, could help us narrow down suspects

@Pine - would have to reread Cloud's ISO again and see who he was pushing, see how serious pushes look before I used them as evidence for town status of Nero/Gamma. Alisae I don't think is SK, forgot why because work, booze, lots of games. Oh yeah, it was that Vig crumb when she thanked Gamma for saving her the trouble of vigging Tywin. I don't remember Cloud attacking Titus, more like he was defending Tywin. P sure Titus and Cabd are masons still so I won't doubt you there though. Even if they're not masons Titus is still my top TR and Cabd is high-tier.

About Tywin going to ground: that means you think he's under the radar, right? Just another way of saying that? Not sure what that "gone to ground" means.

Elbirn I placed higher in my reads yesterday due to suspicion that he was Titus's mason buddy. Also not as sure on him today. Aj I've gone back and forth on a lot. Really disliked the way they argued this morning about me being scum, and the way they tried to make my clarification look like discrediting. Having a lot of trouble sorting that slot.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

When I think I've seen mason crumbs and then I'm told that no we're not masons it makes me suspicious because sometimes scum crumb roles for fakeclaiming when it is convenient. How is it anti town to make sure that is not what's happening right now?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So full disclosure, I was hoping to wait to evaluate the actual cloudkicker ISO and make my own opinions once EVERYONE else had weighed in but game's dragging. (I skimmed cases made from said ISO intentionally hence lack of vote)

Spoiler: Wherein Cabd waffles a ton while quoting a majority of Cloud's ISO

I aready found 1 mefia and i will townblock transcend if he has the same read

This points against syr-scum slightly in my book.

Titus why do you think Gamma is not a BFF?

He's null. Too early.

No hes not, he voted obvious town and you say someone fosing obvious town is null because lack of content beep beep
Lapsa is obvious town, sonia didnt say hi so ill go and say that its not towny, titus had 2 bad posts, tra

We have clears on Lapsa and Titus; so I've got money one of {gamma; Sonia} scum. I don't think it's both. Scum knew they had a traitor btw; just checked; so his traitor claims not getting picked up on hints more towards people less likely to know what to look for in him/know how to go about treating a traitor when scum. This makes me favor gamma over Sonia here if I had to pick; I think.

sonia titus elbirn pine are all looking bad atm, i like uzi, lap and another guy i forgot

Titus cleared; Uzi Lap dead town. Is it really as simple as two scum in {sonia, pine, elbirn}? Nah, can't be THAT easy...

Sonia i trust that i am competent enough that i will eventually have a correct read on your alignement, whatever it is

Although...

@mod whats the point even to have encryptor if mafia still have day talk without it, 2 encryptors?

In hindsight this was probably something irrelevant, he wouldn't know the main mafia team's PRs. The backtracking may have been legit about a flip in a different game.

Timing is important, and titus meta is great, sonia is a good player but this is also d1, flips will reveal her alignement and mine also

Wait people scumread sonia from this ISO, really?

Side note: Fuck he's really re-enforcing the tywin townslip scenario...

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

FWIW this also points slightly against syr-scum FMPOV

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

AJ or tywin? Starting to waffle but otoh the tywin shit was so frustrated town. Ugh.

Kyouko youre really underestimating what a traitor would to to indicates hes the traitor to their scumteam

This is the post that has everyone wanting to lynch SSBM right? I don't see it as indicative of ssbm scum; somebody convince me otherwise?

Yeah, I'm still not interested in a Lypsawhateverthefuckhisnameis lynch

Pedit: whats this about lying about tywin?

Just going to mark this as fake looking and associatives with lapsa, this is the exact behavior im looking for by pushong on traitor claim

Another point for town-syr.

Major takeaway here is +townpoints for Syryana and Sonia. And a major slide in my confidence in town-level for Aj and Tywin. Mozamis slot and nosf. slot were completely ignored; which means I'd rather not hunt there today. In fact until I typed that previous sentence I'd forgotten nos was still in this game. Even our completely VLA syryana player has more presence after subbing in.

On break rn will look closer at lunch but I feel like where you have sure townpoints I would give him scumpoints for the same posts. I think we have different ideas of what cloud was trying to do, I think he was trying to let his scumteam know he was the traitor, but maybe he was trying to be a townbeard for his team in hopes of them letting him live long enough to take over the scum factional kill as a fmott in late game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So full disclosure, I was hoping to wait to evaluate the actual cloudkicker ISO and make my own opinions once EVERYONE else had weighed in but game's dragging. (I skimmed cases made from said ISO intentionally hence lack of vote)

Spoiler: Wherein Cabd waffles a ton while quoting a majority of Cloud's ISO

I aready found 1 mefia and i will townblock transcend if he has the same read

This points against syr-scum slightly in my book.

Titus why do you think Gamma is not a BFF?

He's null. Too early.

No hes not, he voted obvious town and you say someone fosing obvious town is null because lack of content beep beep
Lapsa is obvious town, sonia didnt say hi so ill go and say that its not towny, titus had 2 bad posts, tra

We have clears on Lapsa and Titus; so I've got money one of {gamma; Sonia} scum. I don't think it's both. Scum knew they had a traitor btw; just checked; so his traitor claims not getting picked up on hints more towards people less likely to know what to look for in him/know how to go about treating a traitor when scum. This makes me favor gamma over Sonia here if I had to pick; I think.

sonia titus elbirn pine are all looking bad atm, i like uzi, lap and another guy i forgot

Titus cleared; Uzi Lap dead town. Is it really as simple as two scum in {sonia, pine, elbirn}? Nah, can't be THAT easy...

Sonia i trust that i am competent enough that i will eventually have a correct read on your alignement, whatever it is

Although...

@mod whats the point even to have encryptor if mafia still have day talk without it, 2 encryptors?

In hindsight this was probably something irrelevant, he wouldn't know the main mafia team's PRs. The backtracking may have been legit about a flip in a different game.

Timing is important, and titus meta is great, sonia is a good player but this is also d1, flips will reveal her alignement and mine also

Wait people scumread sonia from this ISO, really?

Side note: Fuck he's really re-enforcing the tywin townslip scenario...

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

FWIW this also points slightly against syr-scum FMPOV

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

AJ or tywin? Starting to waffle but otoh the tywin shit was so frustrated town. Ugh.

Kyouko youre really underestimating what a traitor would to to indicates hes the traitor to their scumteam

This is the post that has everyone wanting to lynch SSBM right? I don't see it as indicative of ssbm scum; somebody convince me otherwise?

Yeah, I'm still not interested in a Lypsawhateverthefuckhisnameis lynch

Pedit: whats this about lying about tywin?

Just going to mark this as fake looking and associatives with lapsa, this is the exact behavior im looking for by pushong on traitor claim

Another point for town-syr.

Major takeaway here is +townpoints for Syryana and Sonia. And a major slide in my confidence in town-level for Aj and Tywin. Mozamis slot and nosf. slot were completely ignored; which means I'd rather not hunt there today. In fact until I typed that previous sentence I'd forgotten nos was still in this game. Even our completely VLA syryana player has more presence after subbing in.

On break rn will look closer at lunch but I feel like where you

gave Syryana

townpoints I would give him scumpoints for the same posts. I think we have different ideas of what cloud was trying to do, I think he was trying to let his scumteam know he was the traitor, but maybe he was trying to be a townbeard for his team in hopes of them letting him live long enough to take over the scum factional kill as a fmott in late game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

having a very strong urge to vote Aj/SSBM

SSBM just so people will stop talking on it and Aj cause that may have been a scum counter wagon

but nos needs to die the least of those 4 probably or maybe nero but idk about him lately; I should maybe iso his D2 play and see what he did

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oops quoted sonia, meant to ask what wagon was a scum counter wagon in sonia's 2873 and how does it relate to aj? Also why should people stop talking about lynching me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus - OMGUsing me for me slagging them off earlier.

This is p much Titus in a nutshell. I feel like my d1 case on her was solid. Like, in our last game I had a scum read on me-she ignored me and then when I called her out for lurking she went on to claim that I tunnel her regardless of alignment and that I was being mean or whatever. She did the same thing here so exactly why shouldn't I have thought she was scum? So why wasn't I getting much traction? Is she scum and her team wasn't bussing? Is she town and scum knew she was/thought she was traitor and/or got off of her for the little town cred? I kinda of think the later wich is why we should be lynching SSBM.

Oh so I just did that ISO, didn't even realize I was your scumread. Is there something in particular that makes you not want to lynch mozamis? Now that you've seen I thought Titus was Mason do you understand why I was being so vague about why I was defending Titus yesterday? Pine's been feeling a lot townier as of late so I'd be surprised to see him flip scum with scum!mozamis on the basis I had been thinking he might do so before. Doesn't change the fact Mozamis was pushing lurkers as a general theme yesterday but ignored Pine simultaneously. Even if he wasn't a scumpartner, maybe the scumteam had a different agenda in mind and that's why he wasn't pushing Pine.

You listed Sonia and Elbirn as other SRs of yours, what makes you SR them? Seems the basis of your SR on me is in the way I defended Titus and the assumption Cloud was trying to crumb Traitor to me. Were there other reasons for suspecting me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

okay so i suspected Cabd was multi shot because no 1-shot would check titus

also glad I didn't ask Alisae to shoot me instead of Nos b/c I thought Nos was doctor, also due to crumbs

quack

VOTE: Alisae

A "quack" is a slang term for a fake/unlicensed doctor

m

ental remin

d

er to post here again

Reading downwards this says MD, like the suffix for doctors.

Nice shooting though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ali did you shoot Nosferatu?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So why do you think he got shot?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

thing is, scum don't know if you're sk or vig. They'll eventually have to shoot you. Did you or Cabd say something that would indicate that you would try to shoot him? Are you talking about when he said that he and Titus would control your shots?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Right, but town won't lynch you so why bother trying to frame you? I was just curious. I guess BP is a common SK role so I could see them wanting to lynch instead of NK.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

More reasonable explanation:

Mozamis flipped mason. Scum assumed mozamis's buddy did not vote him. Scum tried to shoot the buddy last night.
Players not voting Mozamis at lynch include Cabd, Tywin, Sonia, and Nosferatu. We now know Nosferatu was scum, so we can cross her off of scum's list. Mozamis himself voted Tywin and Sonia, which would be enough reason not to shoot them. That leaves Cabd and Syryana/Gerryoat.

Elbirn's hammer appears to have been accidental but might have been a clever fake banking on the mod counting Nero's vote. He's seemed towny to me for most if not all of the game so I'm ruling it was an accident.
Assuming Elbirn's hammer was an accident that leaves Gerryoat(Syryana) and Elbirn as the likely mason partners. I suggest we don't lynch there for now because scum will feel pressured to hunt for the other mason with the NK. Mason should also not claim for now to save yourself to CC in case scum tries to claim mozamis buddy.

I could probably do Tywin today. Will look at Mozamis ISO and try to remember who pushed her. Gonna check VCs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ebwop: I could probably do Tywin today. Will look at

Nosferatu

ISO and try to remember who pushed her. gonna check VCs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Unless you truly believe in two vigilantes, and ignore everything alisae's done this game, then she is pretty much confirmed SK. I think we all need to go by that as a rule of thumb first.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Interesting one.
Complete knee jerk reaction: lynch. Get rid of unstable elemnts, might get rid of anti town, might get info.
Leasing sounds dicey. Think I was in a game once where it was attempted and backfired. And it derailed the thread I think.

You draw parallel between piegirl and alisae?

Leash or lynch almost always gives flashbacks. Given the strongblock we appear to have, mandating the vig shoot a particular slot and lynching any deviation that doesn't hit scum. No excuses. Whatever we decide, we stick with.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

I don't believe in leashing an sk. If someone isn't on the town faction then they need to die.

I don't believe in lynching town. If alisae is vig then leave her alive

Proposal: SK's are compulsive killers yeah? Just tell alisae not to kill anymore, or at least for one night phase. Proves she's not sk, confirmed town vig. Problem solved.

You've hammered a townie, NK'd a cop, and now tunnel another townie.

I mean

That first one was a trick, she had no way of knowing uzi was a vanilla cop, and regardless of whether she's town vig or 3p sk has no knowledge of your alignment

Blaming her for....any of that, really, doesn't make sense.


Sidenote: do you know the difference between cop and vanilla cop?

Regarding Vig/SK leashing

- Unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, Alisae is either SK or Vig. IMO, neither leashing nor killing the SK/Vig out of hand is pro-Town. SK/Vig is arguably the biggest threat to the scumteam, until late game. She shouldn't make it to endgame, but neither do we end her shots. That said, leashing SK/Vig does not work in my experience. Yes, it essentially gives us two lynches, but it also allows scum to influence a second NK. Vig/SK, regardless of their own alignment, is anti-scum, and will shoot for their scum suspects. In short, fire away, Alisae. Know that your choices will be judged, and if you start shooting obvTown, you'll get lynched right away.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

lynched. I remember in my first game on this site, we tried to leash suspected sk TSO, but it entirely blew up in our faces. I was indifferent to the matter then, but now I know there's no real reason to leash over lynch.

I'd really like to not relive that; reading to see if I acknowledge tywin's case on Alisae.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

lynched. I remember in my first game on this site, we tried to leash suspected sk TSO, but it entirely blew up in our faces. I was indifferent to the matter then, but now I know there's no real reason to leash over lynch.

I'd really like to not relive that; reading to see if I acknowledge tywin's case on Alisae.

I'd be interested to hear how y'all fucked that up. SK wins only in a Lylo situation with 3 people and mislynch.

The real answer is you leash them and lynch them only if you feel you're out of scum. I'm not sure the current state of wincons for an SK but I'm pretty sure they lose an endgame with scum having majority. It's from that perspective that you keep them around and keep careful track of kills/lynch majority so you don't somehow skip mylo/lylo. Wasting time on Vig/Sk day 2 is completely pointless. Gets you no information, gets you a guaranteed non-groupscum lynch, gives scum nothing to fear at night.

Aj, Titus, and Pine have the towniest answers to this question imo. Stopped going through more of the thread looking for more replies to this question because really tired but I'm okay with tywin lynch, nothing discouraging me from what I rechecked.

Kyouko and Nos reads?

I think Alisae is sk, not liking tywin rn, and I doubt sonia killed cloudkicker. People who know each other irl are usually really good at reading each other, and I really don't think that Sonia wouldn't figure out cloud was a traitor if she was mafia.

No I expected Syr to shoot me.

what the fuck? Aren't YOU the vig? Why would Syr shoot the actual vig?

I am the vig.
But I thought he cud be vig to.
Idunno, maybe he no believe claim so he go pew pew and me ded?
That is if there is 2 vigs.
Maybe it's at the time I really did not understand his humor.

Was the question answered about where you learned mafia from

This was like the only substantial post I could find in that ISO. Possibly sowing the seed of scum!Sonia being town on the basis that she would have figured out Cloud was the traitor. Could be coincidence. Nos also says not liking Tywin rn. Either way, she connects with these 2 players here and doesn't really ever interact with anyone else. I would be surprised if neither of these were scum. Keep them on the vig list for now imo.

VOTE: Tywin

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mason buddy should absolutely claim because if they get vigged I am going to throw a tantrum

I think we just keep mason suspects out of the vig pool and make scum sweat it out

It's actually seriously obvious Tywin was a mason with Mozamis. As soon as mozamis flipped, I wanted to kick myself for not seeing it.

Syr is the mason. Tyr is whiteknighting scum most likely.

Probably but lets not forget there are other possibilities and again, make scum work for their mason NK instead of handing it over

Not that I recall, but I could be wrong.

Hey, now that we've decided that no one is certain, let's abandon the issue of identifying the Mason, agree that Alisae doesn't shoot the possible choices, and let them claim late game? Cool? Awesome. Stfu about the Mason.

Perf.

Well, not a shocker, just not as obvious as you're trying to make it sound, Sonia.

Anyone who thought Nos was flipping town needs to be hit with a stone

Hey that's me and Transcend iirc, see my post about doctor crumbs though. P sure he spotted them too because he said "sometimes you can read people off a few posts" which is what made me ISO nos and that's when I spotted the "quack" crumb. I think Transcend saw it too.

I'm not dead? And that scum Nos is? Nice shot Alisae.

Also, I think via DOES matter. D1, when Titus was pushing Lapsa's wagon after mine failed, I tried pushing Nos (Eliburn did as well), but nope... Titus had to have Lapsa! She's never once mentioned Nos all game. She's not the lynch today due to Cabd, but it makes Cabd suspect along with her.

Also, Kyouko is scum. He kept calling Nos town for no reason. I want kyouko's scummy head on a platter.

Hey read before you post thanks, I immediately explained why I thought Nos was town when he flipped, it wasn't for no reason.

How can't I argue that you're shit town and that I've not been on town wagons? They don't correlate, and the second is a fact. The first is just an opinion, but one that's been proven correct so far this game. I'd say you were scum if Cabd didn't investigate you. I didn't see his flip before, so I suppose that clears you. Due to that, it means you're shit town instead of scum.

Also, I told you all moz was town, but I'm not the Mason. Why didn't his Mason buddy defend him? Can anyone explain that to me? How idiotic is that? Wtf? Mason was the last thing I'd think moz would flip based on how many of you were on his wagon, without anyone actually defending him. That's just ridiculous.

I'll catch up when I get home and reevaluate, since I just read Kyouko isn't the lynch for some reason. I'll find out why later. He did defend Nos and claim he was town though, which I find odd.

I also want to check the end of D1 and see who was against the Nos wagon, which was the counter to Lapsa's. I'm willing to bet that someone pushed hard on Lapsa over Nos there, and that player is probably scum.

Also, gamma, lol! You're clearly scum, so I'm not worried. Lynch me and three town wagons won't look good for you bud. You aren't cleared like Titus.

K well if you're not the mason my votes staying. Nero can go to the vigpool if he doesn't step up soon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine

Nero Cain

gerryoat

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic

xSoniaNevermindx

ssbm_Kyouko

Alisae

Tywin Lannister

Elbirn

Titus

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

not letting this nerd kill himself yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah he's trying to end discussion don't hammer this yet. Vig the hammer vote if it comes before we get Titus approval

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine

Nero Cain

gerryoat

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic

xSoniaNevermindx

ssbm_Kyouko

Alisae

Tywin Lannister

Elbirn

Titus

UNVOTE:

so in 3127 I was working on a list for the vigi pool since we're getting so close to lynch. Not gonna let this go through without Nero, Gerry, and Gamma posting first though

Anyways green should be off limits to Alisae, Red preferred shots, No color is fair game. That's my opinion. Titus, thoughts on this list?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I guess Nero and Gamma already posted gonna go check those out

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine

Nero Cain

gerryoat

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic

xSoniaNevermindx

ssbm_Kyouko

Alisae

Tywin Lannister

Elbirn

Titus

UNVOTE:

so in 3127 I was working on a list for the vigi pool since we're getting so close to lynch. Not gonna let this go through without Nero, Gerry, and Gamma posting first though

Anyways green should be off limits to Alisae, Red preferred shots, No color is fair game. That's my opinion. Titus, thoughts on this list?

Why are you TRing Elbrin

well green is just people that I thought you would say shouldn't be shot, was trying to get something out for Alisae before hammer. If I were in charge of the list it would be limited to [Sonia, Aj, Nero, Gamma], with Sonia/Aj as preferred shots. Elbirn isn't a strong TR, just one of my leans from general feeling about his posts combined with other players looking either more scummy or less towny than him. Got you and Alisae as my lock towns now that Cabd flipped. Sure scum doctor is possible technically, but if that were the case I don't think Nos would have died last night considering this post:

None here.

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people
Tywin
Kyouko
Cabd

Yeah no on kyko or cabd

Nero nos tywin

Like if you were scum doctor you wouldn't put more than 1 of your team on the vig platter and if you did put 1 up there you would just doc on them. Since you're still pushing Tywin/Nero today after seeing Nos flip scum, and would probably still have Nero in tonight's vigpool, I'd say the chances of you being scumdoctor are slim to none, and even smaller if Tywin or Nero flip scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

-long rant without punctuation-

Unreadable fyi, so if this is important, know I didn't read it.

-long rant without punctuation-

Unreadable fyi, so if this is important, know I didn't read it.

mhm it was more me pissy answering it all in 1 giant rant post without thinking

Is it just me or does this look like an underreaction from Sonia? I feel like she gets mad easily and was just looking through Nos and Cloud again for hints at partners and this sticks out a little. Seems like she might have been more civil with Nos because they're aligned.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I really don't like Kyouko. Like I don't like how fucking easily he picked up those crumbs. Honestly I never did like Kyouko.

Wowee, I spotted some crumbs, it's almost like I'm paying attention to what I'm reading

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I really don't like Kyouko. Like I don't like how fucking easily he picked up those crumbs. Honestly I never did like Kyouko.

Wowee, I spotted some crumbs, it's almost like I'm paying attention to what I'm reading

Only scum seem to be doing that this game, so it doesn't help your case much.

Just because you think town is playing poorly doesn't make it so. So far we're 1 for 4 on hitting scum, and scum has made mistakes too by shooting cloud. We're really not doing badly imo, especially if Titus lives

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also, can we lynch this:
VOTE: SSBM_Kyouko

Also for a moment I thought Kyouko said he thought he knew Nos' alignment
Also I really like how he was nulltown reading Nos most of day 1. I thought it was cute.
Akarin didn't die for this shit.

If you want to shoot me for spotting crumbs tonight it's fine but I'll flip green. I've done a lot more than the others on your list imo and I've been a lynch candidate since Cloud's flip. Suggesting you hold off and try to lynch me tomorrow, shoot me after that if my wagon is fishy. There are better shots out there.

Titus, what's your thoughts on Sonia in general this game? Seems like a pretty quiet slot to me except for when they were pushing Tywin

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Or you can try to wagon me today even, you're just as safe as Titus is until we think all the scum are dead, no need for you to be worried about going against her during the day as long as you don't start NKing the wrong people

[ssbm_Kyouko]

scumteam are likely to kill gerry/titus tonight imo. Gerry because mason and Titus because she's the one guiding your shots. They would rather you be shooting for yourself because frankly Titus has better judgment than you and they need you to kill town to swing the game back in their favor

pedit: Gamma as a shot or as a wagon?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why in the fuck is Tywin still cluttering this thread?

Doublevote Tywin

Kbai.

So I was TRing pine but if this is hammer consider that rescinded

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tywin also claimed VT I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay someone fill me in why we are all quick voting tywin

Basically Tywin and Titus got into a big fight D1 where they both accused each other of lying. Tywin came close to lynch and started to get frustrated and some people called it town frustration. One of those people was Cloudkicker who repeatedly defended Tywin calling him and Titus TvT. That night, scum shot CK and Alisae shot LUV. CK flipped Mafia Loved Traitor, so scum shot their own traitor. LUV was a Vanilla Cop but was a reasonable shot to have made. D2 when we saw the CK flip Tywin got brought up again because CK had been defending him so much. I'm under suspicion because people think CK was trying to signal to me that he was the traitor, and because I was defending Nosferatu (flipped Mafia Motion Detector, shot by Alisae N2), but I thought Nosferatu was crumbing doctor. We ended up lynching Moz yesterday in a pretty fast wagon, my reason for voting her was she was being inconsistent about which lurkers she wanted to lynch (she was avoiding pointing Pine out as a lurker, when he was lurking just as much as the others she was calling out) so I suspected Pine was her scumbuddy.

@Alisae - please explain what you mean by that, I don't understand the point you're trying to get across. Well, I understand you think I'm scum, I just don't see how you got from A to B there.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So is it:

>Nos thought Alisae was SK
>Nos flipped scum
>Pine thinks Alisae is SK
>Pine will flip scum
>Kyouko doesn't want Pine vigged
>Kyouko is scum

Trying to follow here

pedit: No, I don't udnerstand what you're saying, and I don't think you understand what I'm saying either.
My stance:

>Titus has better judgment than you
>You have been hitting scum by shooting within Titus and Cabd's allowed shots
>Scum needs you to shoot town players for the game to swing back in their favor, so scum will try to kill Titus tonight in order to take the leash off of you, rather than killing you outright. If you die it will be 2-3 scum vs 7-8 town. If you live and Titus dies you will be free to choose your shots for yourself, and you might misjudge and shoot town.
>This will make the game easier for scum to win, which is why scum will probably not kill you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh nah
Alisae is not getting lynched
you barking up the wrong tree
VOTE: Pine

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alisae and Titus and Gerry are off limits

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh I see what happened I think, just a sec:

Not lynching Titus, Alisae, Nosferatu, or Cabd today. Might not lynch Sonia depending on how Titus answers, but I don't think she has an answer to convince me of Sonia's towniness. Gamma and Aj I'm starting to like for town after reading yesterday's posts without confbias glasses on Aj, and seeing how Gamma reacted to the people cliaming Tywin was town. His progression from scum!Tywin to town!Tywin read looked like mine and I'm town so I think he was also swayed by the opinions of his TRs.

That leaves Nero, Mozamis, Pine, Elbirn (I totally forgot to mention Elbirn was one of the people TRing Tywin in my last post), Syryana, and Tywin. Looking at the lynch wagon and the RVS wagon side by side, (blue being town fmpov, red/green being confirmed):

Lapsa Wagons

Lapsa

5 (Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

• Nero - He may be scum that saw that Lapsa reached a 5-person wagon comprised entirely of town and decided that would be an easy excuse to FoS town all day and not have to look at his partners. The same could be said of me for a while but I eventually started looking outside of this wagon when nothing was really adding up. He didn't. scum!Nero flip would be extremely telling of the first wagon's alignment imo.
  
• Mozamis - I don't recall her stance on Lapsa. She spent a lot of the day catching up but the things she did say, like I said earlier, pinged me more on how starkly contrasting they were to my own views than how scummy they seemed. I'll have to reread/question her to come to something conclusive there.
  
• Pine - His vote was only ever on Lapsa yesterday I think (after a page 1 Cabd vote) because he was gone almost all day and that was where he set his vote when Lapsa started attacking Cabd's joke mason claim. Today he's seemed towny enough but we'll see how that progresses. Yesterday's lurk could have been scum that saw that he was the first vote on what looked to him like an all town L-2 wagon on another town (scum!Pine wouldn't have known Cloud was scum), and decided instead of wallposting his catchup like he promised, that he would just let us mislynch Lapsa.
  
• Elbirn - He was never really pointed at by Cloud yesterday so I hesitate to say he's the scum on the Lapsa RVS wagon. He did later TR Tywin though, but his vote was on Nosferatu at the end of the day with Sonia's. Can't really fault him for having a different read on Nos than me but I've been suspicious of the players that pushed Nos rather than Pine. If Pine were scum it would explain that trend I think.
  
• Syryana - Looking at Cloud's first post in thread and the way cloud tried to lead Transcend into defending Tywin I think he would make sense as scum with Tywin. I got town feels from Transcend though so I'm not really set on scumreading this. He's the only vote on the final Lapsa wagon that looks scum to me though so I've got my eye on him.
  
• Tywin - It's still hard to say if his emotional posting was frustrated town or frustrated scum. It's hard for me to let go of pushing this scumread but I'm willing to put it on the back burner knowing he might get vigged tonight. The fact remains he was misrepping Titus and refused to acknowledge it when his misreps were quoted though. If we can't come to a good decision by deadline this is the best lynch imo.

Summary:
Town: Titus, Alisae*, Cabd
Townlean: Gamma, Aj, Nosferatus

------Lynch Line------

Nullscum: Nero, Mozamis, Elbirn, Pine
Scumlean:Sonia**, Syryana,
Scum: Tywin

*Could still be SK, but less likely now than yesterday
**Could rise depending on how Titus justifies not lynching her

[Elbirn, Pine, Mozamis, Syryana] would be a nice scumpool if Titus can convince me Sonia is town. That pool would work with town!Nero also, considering Elbirn being on the RVS wagon but missing from the final wagon.

Edited formatting

@Mod, please spoiler my above post if you get a chance

Pretty sure this is my last reads list. Don't think I put Pine at town after this, but I may have started to TR him yesterday based on preflip association with Mozamis who I was thinking was scum, combined with him being one of the few players to look at the case on me from a reasonable perspective. It's possible he was WKing me but I'm not going to stand for him voting conftown. The green names in my last post were players that I thought that Titus would not want you to shoot tonight in case Tywin quickly self-hammered before she had a chance to direct your shots. I even unvoted to prevent that self-hammer so that Titus would have time to direct your shots tonight. Go back and read over my talk with Titus surrounding the post with the green and red names, that wasn't a reads list

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Speaking of those Lapsa wagons in my last reads list, let's update them withe new flips and conftowns:

Lapsa Wagons

Lapsa

5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

, Gamma Emerald,

Lil Uzi Vert

, ssbm_Kyouko,

Cabd

,

gerryoat

,

Alisae

)

Pine and Gamma were on both wagons, RVS and the lynch wagon. I lynched Lapsa as well so I'm fair game for vig shots. Should lynch within [me, Gamma, Pine, Tywin today] and shoot from within the other 3.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well hmm, I guess Lapsa claiming traitor might have turned scum off that wagon and knowing the last 5 on that lynch were town complicates it a bit for me. You guys don't know I'm town though so

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can Pine vote confirmed town/SK at this stage of the game without being scum? I think we've been over how an Alisae lynch is bad for town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lapsa RVS Wagon VC

Lapsa

5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

D1 Final VC

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

, Gamma Emerald,

Lil Uzi Vert

, ssbm_Kyouko,

Cabd

,

gerryoat

,

Alisae

)

Nosferatu

3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx,

Lapsa

)

Titus

3 (Nero Cain,

mozamis

, Tywin Lannister)

Alisae

1 (Aj The Epic)

CloudKicker

1 (

Nosferatu

)

Lots of town lynched town D1

D2 Final VC

mozamis

8 (

Titus

, ssbm_Kyouko, Pine, Gamma Emerald,

Alisae

, Aj The Epic, Nero Cain, Elbirn)
Aj The Epic 2 (

Cabd

, Tywin Lannister)
Tywin Lannister 2 (xSoniaNevermindx,

mozamis

)

Alisae

1 (

Nosferatu

)
Not Voting: (

Syryana

)

Lots of town not voting mozamis D2

Conclusion: Scum avoided Lapsa wagon because they thought he was traitor. Scum voted mozamis knowing he was town (duh). Players on mozamis but not on Lapsa are more suspicious. [Aj, Nero, Elbirn]

UNVOTE:
Okay mom but I don't like people voting conftown

[ssbm_Kyouko]

okay so i suspected Cabd was multi shot because no 1-shot would check titus

Why?

I asked Cabd direct questions about why he checked Titus yesterday. 1-shot GS would check the Vig/SK suspect. Cabd probably claimed 1-shot in hopes that he would live long enough to verify Alisae had a gun as well.

Conclusion: Scum avoided Lapsa wagon because they thought he was traitor. Scum voted mozamis knowing he was town (duh). Players on mozamis but not on Lapsa are more suspicious. [Aj, Nero, Elbirn]

I would include Pine in there as well. It could be likely that he never saw the Traitor crumb since he was struggling to catch up most of day 1.

Scum have daychat. If it was a team decision to avoid lynching Lapsa it would have been made in the PT, which I'm sure is not nearly as hard to stay caught up on as this thread is.

Lots of town not voting mozamis D2

You mean... Mozamis and an inactive Syrana? Rofl nice one. Can't use "scum voted for Lapis" because that's you. Gamma/Pine on both and Titus is chasing you off Pine. Little options for your conclusion, insufficient backing of evidence and really a weak delivery is all I noticed from that post.

*whiff* yep, smells like discrediting to me

Conclusion: Scum avoided Lapsa wagon because they thought he was traitor. Scum voted mozamis knowing he was town (duh). Players on mozamis but not on Lapsa are more suspicious. [Aj, Nero, Elbirn]

I would include Pine in there as well. It could be likely that he never saw the Traitor crumb since he was struggling to catch up most of day 1.

What Traitor crumb? Lapsa wasn't a traitor, ergo, there WAS no crumb.

Scumteam didn't have any way of knowing that Lapsa wasn't a traitor until Lapsa got lynched. Traitor knows identity of scumteam, scumteam does not know the identity of the traitor.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Smells like discrediting? You literally stated "A lot of town weren't on Mozamis' lynch" of which constituted the one being lynched and an inactive.

5/9 players voting Lapsa were town. 6/9 from my PoV.
2/8 players voting Mozamis were town. 3/8 from my pov.

The difference between 45% and 25% (neutral PoV) and the difference between 66% and 37.5% (town!Kyouko, town!Pine, town!Gamma) POV is pretty significant.
I think it's worth looking at, especially for town!Pine and town!Gamma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Bold your damn votes.

Also Kyouko have you been townreading Gamma ANYWHERE before this?

Why do you assume I'm TRing Gamma? As far as I know using the format town![playername] is meant to be used for hypotheticals. I'm not TRing Pine either, but they are both the other players who were on both lynches, and

if

they are town then 6/9 and 3/8 apply to their points of view the same way those numbers do to mine

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

kk getting back to those Tywin and Alisae reads now that I'm sober.
Leaning Town on Alisae, not as sheepy as I thought, that was just the word I used last night to describe her very early play involving the introductions and all. I think the only sheepy vote she had was on Lapsa After she dropped the catposting things looked a lot better from her.
Tywin the play looks scummy so far, could wagon that if he keeps on the way he is and the right people are voting him, but not right now.

There are scum here in the bold:

Votecount 1.3

Lapsa 5 (

Pine

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

, Alisae,

Elbirn

)

So my vote will stay here until all the bold look town or someone else scums up the thread.

@Alisae - "Me because of my role pm says so." Serious answer please. If you think that was a serious answer then who's your second-strongest TR?
pedit: jk

@Titus:
Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

I usually don't do these, but I'm assuming you asked me for a good reason. There are 2 townleans above and below my lynch line because some of these are in my no vote zone and others are not. Cabd would be townlean on the bottom side of the line if he wasn't in your list of top TRs.

@Alisae - I've been trying to figure out if only one or both of you are scum by convincing you to vote each other. Tywin was close to the bottom of my reads list when I last gave it; I'm not in the habit of defending my SRs. I prefer to talk to them until they talk themselves into or out of a corner, and either lynch them or let them go depending on how I feel about them after the discussion.

Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

I understand why you've put Pine there but don't agree with it yet. Won't judge him until I see some more but he looks okay enough so far.

Exactly my thoughts. Although chose not to mention it.

Titus moved to scumpool.

Lapsa, AJ, TL - easy mislynches
Alisae, Uzi, Gamma - perhaps bus on 1, others null-ish town
kicker, pine, sonia - gtfo town
nero - snowflake gtfo town because nero
mozamis - snowflake oh so legit catchup gtfo town

nostramus?

Btw - Aj seems to be hardcore lurksack by meta.

The lurking is irrelevant

The content within the lurking is awful

I find it acceptable - it's better than Nosferatu's.

So these posts are the ones where he defends players without saying FYI to the point in the game where I pointed out that he says FYI a lot. The first post is defending Pine's lurking, and the last 3 are about AJ. He also puts Mozamis and Pine as town on this list but puts Nosferatus at a "?", which could be excused because i think Nos has like 3 posts at the time Lapsa posts this.
If he is a traitor though would it not be interesting if he had used his 561 as another crumb? Look at the bolded. If it's 4 scum, 3+ a traitor, the scumteam might notice this reads list and see themselves as 2 easy mislynches alongside the traitor, plus the last of the scum team being hidden inside the 3 below where there is "perhaps bus on 1". This would be traitor!Lapsa + AJ +Tywin + 1 of [Alisae, Uzi, Gamma] as the scumteam.
He uses FYI 3 times; twice to call Cabd and Titus scum, and once to call Alisae town.

I think both of you are just too invested and should back off a bit, its easier to see interactions when youre outside tunnels and whatnot, alisea 2nd to last post was explicitiy scumtelling imo

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

Alisae is not scum here, especially if we ever see scum!Tywin flip. Cloud's iso as a whole points me to [Tywin, Sonia, Transcend, Gamma] for scum in order of descending suspicion. Alisae definitely not scum, Cloud was hanging onto that mislynch as long as he could and when Alisae finally calmed down he immediately backed off and went for the next easiest mislynch in the lurker Lapsa

Titus who do you see me being paired scum with?

Don't know. Not enough data, but why would you care?

Because I wanna help you scumhunt?

That's not helping scumhunt. That's pushing me down a path, which unfortunately is a different theory all together.

Also, why are you voting me if convinced I am hunting?

VOTE: Tywin
Not anymore.

For those that don't understand, I freaked out when

I was under the pressure Tywin gave me. And cause I was in that state of mind, I reacted to shit out of desperation. However, Tywin knows I react this way when I'm under a ton of fucking pressure. I think he does anyways. I think his first step to fighting Titus was to pressure me and be like "If she flips scum you're fucked." Tywin knew the buttons to push with me, so he manipulated me and pushed them. But I think he knew that he should start pushing them.

Tywin, you seem so desperate, I'm calling your bluff.

Imo that textbook mafia overexplaning their vote prior to the flip, also being proactive about being called out on it since the vote in itself is bad from her priors votes, alisea has be tuning her titus/tywin vote depending on the town swing for a good 10 ish pages now

This is Cloud pushing a

mislynch

.

yo if im wrong on tywin im wrong, i want trans read on that tho, i bet my macaroni he will agree with me

Preempting a scum!Tywin flip by saying "if I'm wrong I'm wrong" and is maybe trying to tempt scum!transcend into defending his partner. Could also be Cloud trying to buddy town!Transcend though so that's part of why he's lower on my list of suspects from the cloud iso.

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

This is where he gets onto Lapsa and his reasoning has to do with Lapsa voting Tywin. We've seen cloud and Lapsa's flips, I think this points to scum!Tywin

@ssbm get your vote in there, i see no reason why you would back off to go back on town

Cloud has already switched off Alisae (or was it Pine at this point?) onto Lapsa once he sees me start to push him. "go back on town" in this post refers to Tywin.

Lots of words

I'm sort of confused as to why you think AJ is naive for having lots of townreads he won't lynch when you basically hand your vote to two townreads

Though since I apparently have your vote please vote Titus with me kthx

Titus is town though, and neither of you have my vote. Titus and I have basically the same scumpool, but I think notable differences in our reads are at Nero and Aj. Voting with my townreads at an early stage before I develop strong SRs is not naive as you're implying though.

im fairly confident tywin is town though but i like you even if i think ure half wrong

Again, calling Tywin town. This was probably his most consistent stance all of D1, was that Tywin is town

Sonia is having the very same read that i have on tywin and we are competent enough to read into it, titus is just biased

Points to Sonia and Tywin for scum

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

This is the first and only time I see him mention Gamma which is why Gamma is the lowest on my suspect list but he repeats that Sonia has reads just like his again, maybe trying to hint that he has the same info she does?

And yea also

traitor claim

, if theres actually a traitor or not, its really great because mefia doesnt know if hes real or not and probably wont lynch him, just lynching a

traitor claim

is so good for reading interactions, mafia will find every reasons possble to not jump on it

i didnt read too mucn into your traitor crumd, im talking about the

traitor claim

Yeah, I'm still not interested in a Lypsawhateverthefuckhisnameis lynch

Pedit: whats this about lying about tywin?

Just going to mark this as fake looking and associatives with lapsa, this is the exact behavior im looking for by pushong on

traitor claim

He literally says "traitor claim" 4 times in a span of 6 posts if you read his ISO. The last time he says it he even draws attention to it with a , and the first time he says it he says "

and yea also traitor claim

, [redacted]"

I'm going to go back and look for the players that were hard reading Tywin as town for the way he got riled up and then calmed down. I know I ended up pushing my read on him aside because I saw him calming down

and

I saw several people hard reading him as town. One of those was Cloud, which was probably the player that convinced me the most to put aside that read. Obviously after that flip I'm not so sure about how right I was to do that.
I also saw Gamma do it here:

tbh I think Tywin!town isn't such a wild thought. He managed to level his thoughts and become rational.

I'm going to look for more players saying this and see who says it first, who says it most often, etc. Try to see if a vocal minority (scumteam) is trying to derail Tywin's wagon for some reason, whether because Tywin claimed vanilla or because Tywin is a part of their team.
I will say that going back to this Lapsa wagon of [Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Cabd] that the prime candidate for scum on it fmpov is Gamma. Alisae is clearly either SK or Vig which means she's not scum, Pine's vote was the first on the wagon so is less suspicious than the later ones, plus he's starting to look town today. Been waffling a bit on Cabd but I'm not shook yet. He's still town for me and Titus is still my rock today
Right now, before looking for who else was calling Tywin town, suspicions are on Gamma/Tywin, but if Alisae is at least thinking of killing Tywin tonight I'm looking elsewhere for now. If I had to pick one from your list Titus it would be mozamis but I don't think that's the best course for today. Going to wait for Gamma's catchup before I decided if I want to vote him though

@Alisae, will you consider shooting Tywin tonight? (Don't want your shot locked in there b/c it helps scum to know where you're shooting) If so I'll unvote for now

Ok Alisae that answer works. Also I think I found an Alisae vig crumb while rereading the great Tywin fiasco looking for who was reading him as town to see if it looked like a scumteam derailing his lynch (mostly inconclusive so far, but Gamma is probably town regardless of Tywin's alignment). Check the bolded in her post out:

I'm done with this shit.

Dayvig: Tywin Lannister

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot.

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine

Nero Cain

gerryoat

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic

xSoniaNevermindx

ssbm_Kyouko

Alisae

Tywin Lannister

Elbirn

Titus

UNVOTE:

so in 3127 I was working on a list for the vigi pool since we're getting so close to lynch. Not gonna let this go through without Nero, Gerry, and Gamma posting first though

Anyways green should be off limits to Alisae, Red preferred shots, No color is fair game. That's my opinion. Titus, thoughts on this list?

Why are you TRing Elbrin

well green is just people that I thought you would say shouldn't be shot, was trying to get something out for Alisae before hammer. If I were in charge of the list it would be limited to [Sonia, Aj, Nero, Gamma], with Sonia/Aj as preferred shots. Elbirn isn't a strong TR, just one of my leans from general feeling about his posts combined with other players looking either more scummy or less towny than him. Got you and Alisae as my lock towns now that Cabd flipped. Sure scum doctor is possible technically, but if that were the case I don't think Nos would have died last night considering this post:

None here.

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people
Tywin
Kyouko
Cabd

Yeah no on kyko or cabd

Nero nos tywin

Like if you were scum doctor you wouldn't put more than 1 of your team on the vig platter and if you did put 1 up there you would just doc on them. Since you're still pushing Tywin/Nero today after seeing Nos flip scum, and would probably still have Nero in tonight's vigpool, I'd say the chances of you being scumdoctor are slim to none, and even smaller if Tywin or Nero flip scum.

That's a collection of the majority of Kyouko's posts on Gamma's alignment. I don't think he ever goes more than townlean gamma and multiple times suggests gamma on a scum team. Mostly, it's waffling. Even as recent as today, the read has gone both ways.

Yeah just read all those posts and I don't ever go more than nullscum on Gamma, seriously where is my TR on Gamma coming from? Is it that you 2 don't understand town![playername]/scum![playername] formatting?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why do you assume I'm TRing Gamma?

Well when you go "oh hey all the scum avoided the Lapsa wagon!" it makes me think you are town reading Gamma and Pine. What is your read on Gamma btw? Still null-scum?

Oh that makes sense. But yeah, that's still where I'd put him. I could still be wrong about Lapsa wagon. It's not like he's really done much of anything that I've noticed that would make me TR him.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am caught up.

My top scumread is SSBM. And then Gamma and or Sonia. Pine, gerry, Aj and Tywin are my town reads. and then Titus, you, Elbrin are my null/POE town reads depending on flips.

Whats your read list look like?

So since Titus is town and Alisae is not scum, you put 2-3 scum in [ssbm, Gamma, Sonia, Elbirn]

Can you provide reasoning behind your reads on these players, and explain how Titus is at null/POE town?
list looks pretty bad from here, maybe if you can explain some reads it won't look that way

pedit: You scumread me but think my treatment of Titus indicates town!Titus? I'm town, what does your list look like after my flip?
pedit2: I already covered scumdoctor!Titus and why it doesn't make sense. Why does Alisae have a point but I don't?