Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

These are the notable posts I found while rereading that area. Basically these posts lead me to believe that Gamma is town for his resistance to the rest of the players calling Tywin town. In order, those players were Cloud, Cabd, Lapsa, Sonia, Me, I think. Cloud was the main force before the Tywin claim, but soon after the claim Cabd started reasoning with Tywin, then Lapsa said he would not participate in Tywin or Aj lynches today, then Sonia used a "^" symbol to say she also would not participate in those lynches. I later hesitantly said that Tywin was starting to behave townie but I'd be keeping an eye on him. Knowing Lapsa is town I'm looking at Sonia/Cabd, but the problem with that is that Titus doesn't want either of them lynched. I need to know which one you won't lynch because the other is scum, unless you've been misleading me in your answers to my questions Titus. You know which ones I'm referring to. Also looking towards Syryana for the Cloud comment about betting his macaroni that Transcend would agree with him on Tywin. Lapsa provides a genuine reason to not lynch Aj/Tywin, and I feel like sonia hops onto the town!Tywin train of thought rather quickly when the wind shifts, because she seemed pretty emotionally invested in the push on Tywin but the feeling in her posts evaporated unnaturally.

Spoiler:

btw im calling a tvst tywin titus

Really CK? T v T?

Alisea is milking it too

i also hard tr tywin

I think both of you are just too invested and should back off a bit, its easier to see interactions when youre outside tunnels and whatnot, alisea 2nd to last post was explicitiy scumtelling imo

I dont buy twin scum being this obstinated and going after you so hard d1

yo if im wrong on tywin im wrong, i want trans read on that tho, i bet my macaroni he will agree with me

VOTE: Tywin

So 1 of 2 things happened

Either
A) Tywin saw my wall post thought it was towny and ignored giving me an answer when I asked him not once but twice
or
B) I somehow towntold after he made a giant case on me from being number 2 scum with Titus to "Pro Town"

What am I at? L1 or close to it? I'm a straight up vanilla townie. To be exact, there isn't even a vanilla in there. It's just 'townie.'

To answer Sonia: there are 50+ pages on D1. You say I missed your post? Well no shit? I can't reply to 50 pages worth of garbage and hope to find one diamond in the rough. It will literally take HOURS of reading. You can forget that. I'm not gonna do it after seeing very few of you truly evaluating the game if you think I'm scum. I say it over and over again, and I will keep saying it until I'm lynched and flip town. Titus is scum. Remember that after I'm

50 pages is too much to have any say here. It's a shit show right now full of fluff and bad posts. Nobody knows a damn thing with all this useless posting. It shows that nobody is even attempting to sit and think about what's what. 50 pages means D1 is a wash. Way to go town. You'll get a mislynch on D1 and no info out of it. Titus will use that to her advantage to get anyone else who claims she is scum as the next few day's mislynches, because a lot of you seem to be sheep here. It's ridiculous, but I don't see anything changing with 50 pages of useless posting going on. It's really bad and completely demoralizing. I had almost all weekend off, and I can't keep up with this thread. Do none of you have responsibilities or jobs? There are multiple players complaining on this thread about the length and the insane amount of posts. It's not a good thing for town. Scum can and do hide in shit show threads like this.

Anyway, again, I am town. Titus is scum. Take from that what you will after I'm lynched.

I'm asking you to answer my post as you made a giant case on me and I went from sr number 2 to pro town
that's the annoying part
UNVOTE:

FWIW I'm not voting for Tywin today. He's very obviously frustrated railroaded town.

Shame on those of you that are taking him as scum. He can be town who found scum-titus or town that mistook town-titus for scum titus but the frustration and emotion is genuine town with a capital T.

Tywin, let's chat real quick. A large part of your Titus case is that the logic Titus is using is so ~wrong~ it has to come from scum, right?

FWIW I'm not voting for Tywin today. He's very obviously frustrated railroaded town.

Shame on those of you that are taking him as scum. He can be town who found scum-titus or town that mistook town-titus for scum titus but the frustration and emotion is genuine town with a capital T.

Tywin, let's chat real quick. A large part of your Titus case is that the logic Titus is using is so ~wrong~ it has to come from scum, right?

Look at how he talks about a scumread like they are town.

I won't participate in Tywin and Aj lynches today.

^

Gamma, you're scummy

for ignoring Titus and focusing your entire attention on townies.

I do have to admit, the gladiate, if real, neuters my vca too...

This is horrible. VCA still works with gladiation.

No. It really doesn't. I have been reading through here and every post here is theory and a good chunk is wrong. VCA centers on the choices made. Gladiation artificially removes choices from the game, limiting data points.

Since I am making a post educating you, here's what you need for a good VCA

1) Every vote count colored, without bias of town by play
2) A scum flip not caused by a guilty/gladiator
3) 3 days of data to work with
4) A good understanding of optimal town and scum play
5) The ability to filter a VI.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I will get back to reading. If I only see more bad theory spec that makes me rip my hair out, I will be annoyed.

Jesus Christ, pot meet kettle.

Titus is the player that called 4 players the scum team and conf biases everything over her bad theory in hopes of proving it right somehow. It's the definition of a bad theory,

yet she has the nerve to call out Gamma

? Wow. Misplaced fucking ego that is.

Does this look logical to anyone? It looks fake as shit to me. It feels like he knows I'm town in the second post.

Cabs acknowledge my point.

btw i told yall tywin was town

Why does the later have to be the only possibility? You can't call somebody out for doing something illogical unless you ALSO think they're town?

And it's also just as possible he thinks it's a binary state that has: one of {gamma, titus} is scum? As in "both could be scum but they are most likely not scum together"

By no means am I ruling out your line of questioning as a possibility. I just don't see it as the cardinal sin you seem to think it is.

There's also his blatantly false accusation of Titus not asking him questions.

mm, that said

UNVOTE:

Jesus christ this thread did not need 15 more pages overnight, what were you people doing at 3am? I for one sleep.

it annoys me to no end that I have posted, multiple times, why I think Titus is scum and both Ali and Elbrin are acting like it never happened.

Nero your case on titus is that she was the 3rd person to vote on a wagon. You were about to vote gamma instead until you realized it was titus. Which is just....I can't fuck with that. There's no sense there.

"But she also ignored me!"

Yes, yes she did.

I also don't like that there doesn't seem to be any signs of scum hunting or attempts to do so in his ISO.

Ah, that old "he hasn't done anything disregard everything he's said" line. Classic meme bro

The "this guy is doing nothing" logic pisses me off.

Is this directed towards me or uzi?
Because in my view, it's a pretty scum move to, instead of doing any substantial analysis of a player, throw your hands up and say "they haven't done anything. I am throwing shit on their play as a whole. It's literally all bad."

Uzi/Elibirn: I dont like the gladiator claim, but apparently fake claims in mafiascum meta is okay. Elibirn doubled down on it when others took it as a joke, but it's largely null. I do think fake claims are scummy and idk why it's okay in mafiascum, but it is what it is. Uzi/Elibirn could be TvT, but I think one of them are scum. Idk which one, but Titus has weak associations with either one. Her entire scum claim on me was my 'it's only fair' post asking for Uzi to give his reasoning on voting Elibirn. Then again, Elibirn could be scum and Uzi town. Neither are a good lynch today, so this whole point is moot.

Your position here is really bleh. It's flipfloppy as you don't commit to a stance on either of us, saying "it could be TvT, but I think one could be scum, but gee it could be either". It's a lot of words that don't add up to any meaningful analysis and set you up to lynch either of us later. It's weak sauce and it makes me sadface.

It's even more bleh because I think you're town and my original point in talking about this was thus made void when 10 pages of reading later I decided you were town. But this is scummy, m8, don't do this.

I think only Elbin and Alisae and Titus herself think she's the town leader

Me thinking titus is town =/= me thinking titus is town leader

Clearly I am the town president and all other town and all other town are members of my administration

Really? Why are you constantly asking asinine questions?

Okay, here's an example for you:

Titus is scum buddies with Alisae. Without day talk, Alisae is extreme newbscum and doesn't know to not buddy her scum team in-thread. She thinks that's how to play, but obviously Titus can't go and say 'hey Alisae, calm down there buddy, you'll get us both caught!' Without day talk, newbscum Alisae does what she does.

With day talk, the experienced scum would calm her the fuck down and try to minimize her mistakes.

Now that you have the knowledge that day talk is in this game, don't you think that alisae would be more cautious to buddy titus if they were both scum? That titus would use the day talk to say "hey don't do that"

Yet Titus' case on me is good? She said my post asking for Uzi to answer Elibrin's question and saying 'it's only fair' was the scum tell of the century. Really? Now that is fucking terrible, but a lot of you latched onto that as if it was legitimate. Do you even know what my case is? Why defend Titus without looking at what she's done? You're ISOing me a lot apparently, but ignoring others. Why?

*raises hand* hi yes me again tywin, I never bought into that as a scum tell and idk if anyone else did pls calm down

btw im calling a tvst tywin titus

T v S?

t vs t*

Cloud gets things, good for cloud

So, what is your read on me Alisae?

If Tywin flips scum, town. If Tywin flips town, scum.

And Tywin just said he would self-hammer himself. I KNOW Tywin is the kind of person to claim at L-1 instead of self-hammer if he was town. Becuase he knows that is a townie thing to do. He's not trying to prove to us that he's town, he's trying to prove that Titus is scum. And I'm fucking taking his bluff.

Dichotomies are scummy as fuck

About tywin wagon, some of his line looks like genuine frustrated town, even the self comment didnt comme off as forced to me, i once said and did that as town not so long ago with great success, i also was correct about my deathtunnel

More cloud being right

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alisae

Choo Choo everyone!

Unofficial VC

Titus 3 (Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister, mozamis)
Alisae 2 (Aj The Epic, Elbirn)
Aj The Epic 1 (Transcend)
Lapsa 1 (Pine)
Tywin 4 (Titus, Gamma, Alisae, ssbm_Kyouko)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatus)

Not Voting 5 (Lapsa, Cabd, xSoniaNevermindx, Lil Uzi Vert, CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Did this on my phone but I think it's accurate

Lapsa, you want to talk about anyone but Tywin (not Tywin out of respect for Cabd)?

Townread Tywin around spaghetti.

What else assumptions have you made?

Sub out.

Sorry to do this, but the game exploded with lots of long posts and I'm kinda busy with life. Apologies.

Alisae and Kyouko need to be revisited. That should be the next course of action. So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing, so I think bouncing onward for now is worth while. Both Kyouko and Alisae have been suspect in the last few pages for various reasons and out of the list of people available to be looked into, these two make the most sense for scum.

So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing

?

On day 1, being able to quickly cycle through not only the baseline of suspicious people, but the people who have made votes that were suspicious, is a great plus. My general theory of the game is that town can never be more powerful than D2/N3/D3 so getting this much positive information day 1 to have actually formed a town core that we can be reasonably confident in is a win in and of itself.

Okay: Titus; assuming for a second tywin is town; does your pick for the "other" parts of the scumteam change? Who is your top suspect going into day two if tywin is lynched flips VT and I get shot overnight?

Tywin; who is your highest non-titus pick for scum right now?

Lapsa is probably still scum.

Alisae I have a desperate to survive read on and I would compromise there, but I would be gambling.

Move towards investigating/voting there then. I will personally burn all of my townie brownies to derail a lynch on tywin today if you try. We can revisit tomorrow (or later today if those paths prove not that great) if things change but as of right now I see nothing but a death tunnel and your arguments so far have not convinced me. You can either grind up against me and maybe get it pushed through or work with me and make this thread less toxic. Your call.

Ok, Captain Planet is here to clean up this toxic thread. I will shut up about Titus, and do my best to ignore further... Whatever. Cabd gets my TLeader nomination for even trying to mediate it. Scum would be more than happy to let this fester, especially if it's TvT (which neither Titus or I think it is).

Still at work, but will give updated reads when I get a chance to really catch up again. I have about 15 pages to read it looks like, and I skimmed most of the previous 30 as well. Even if Titus is scum, she's not the only one, so it's a pointless venture to keep it going until one of us (probably me) gets lynched. Town will be no closer to finding the other scum, and so I think even keeping this 1v1 with Titus up would be anti-town on my part. I'll drop it.

Cabd, there's a wagon on Twyin for a reason. If I was alone in scumreading Tywin, I would do as you ask. You do not need to babysit me. You need to realize that may I am right. You need to realize that players like Tywin, that if town, need to read the game. We cannot have players like Tywin who ask twice, after mod confirmation, if scum have daychat. That type of player is not engaged in intelligent thought but posts garbage that makes the game impossible, regardless of his alignment. All Tywin has done is attack obvious town. If no one agreed with me, your call would have more use. It doesn't.

If the group decides to spare Tywin, I will unvote him. Not before. We have a pretty solid fucking townblock, so we can remove players like Tywin.

We still don't NEED to go for his removal. The thing is, we also aren't required to listen to him until her decides to post something that isn't him calling out non-existent attacks.

There ARE, as I said, other things to get done. Aka Kyouko and Alisae.

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

I'm still willing to lynch this fyi

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

I'm still willing to lynch this fyi

Why? Just because someone doesn't like me is not grounds for lynching.

Gamma annoys me and I want to bias lynch him. Can get behind that wagon
I don't see it as omgus more just as dislike that he thinks I'd slip as scum and he hasn't done anything.

Tldr of gamma's iso: Shade throwing with shallow comments.

AHAHA YOU'RE SCUM.
Read my catchup.

Well that's because I'M NOT CAUGHT UP, MEANING I CAN'T ANALYZE JACK SHIT!

My catchup starts after this post and goes on until my bracketed reads

*sing song voice* all I hear is excusessss

Can we lynch obvscum Sonia?

also, can you be a dear SSMB and walk me through your reasoning for dropping your scum read on Titus and then town reading her?

We've already had this conversation and like I said if you missed it I can't point it out for you, not yet at least. Also want to say if you're caught up like you say you are you should have seen that I didn't SR Titus for being on the lapsa wagon, I had a heightened suspicion of her and the rest of those players. Being on that wagon shifted them into my null scum pile. I treat null scum, scumleans, and scumreads as different things. Not sure if you do though so maybe that's why you're saying I was SRing her

I am caught up save for whats been posted today

I'm cheering because you're a hypocrite. And I have a TR on both Titus and AJ fyi
I do love all these idiots shouting "town v town!" though.

Nvm, maybe you didn't TR me. I saw this originally and didn't see the AJ part. I thought you said 'I have a town read on both of you.' Guess you caught me in another lie /s

You TR Titus and AJ I guess. Looks odd to me. I SR them both. You included. Funny. Who are the idiots you mentioned claiming TvT?

And I'll repeat my question: if I get lynched and flip town, will your reads change?

This is a townie way to handle being caught misunderstanding a post, you admit to it and look back to clarify what really happened and go from there.

Also the links in that post work from desktop, I think it's your phone having a problem

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

VOTE: Sonia
Could do Syryana today considering Cloud's intro to the game and the macaroni comment. Imo people tend to crumb in their very early posts if they're going to crumb because they think that's where it will blend in the best, with the rest of the "unusual" posts of RVS.

Hello sonia transcend <3

[Alisae]

Kyouko and Nos reads?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

Not lynching Titus, Alisae, Nosferatu, or Cabd today. Might not lynch Sonia depending on how Titus answers, but I don't think she has an answer to convince me of Sonia's towniness. Gamma and Aj I'm starting to like for town after reading yesterday's posts without confbias glasses on Aj, and seeing how Gamma reacted to the people cliaming Tywin was town. His progression from scum!Tywin to town!Tywin read looked like mine and I'm town so I think he was also swayed by the opinions of his TRs.

That leaves Nero, Mozamis, Pine, Elbirn (I totally forgot to mention Elbirn was one of the people TRing Tywin in my last post), Syryana, and Tywin. Looking at the lynch wagon and the RVS wagon side by side, (blue being town fmpov, red/green being confirmed):

Lapsa Wagons

Lapsa

5 (Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

• Nero - He may be scum that saw that Lapsa reached a 5-person wagon comprised entirely of town and decided that would be an easy excuse to FoS town all day and not have to look at his partners. The same could be said of me for a while but I eventually started looking outside of this wagon when nothing was really adding up. He didn't. scum!Nero flip would be extremely telling of the first wagon's alignment imo.
  
• Mozamis - I don't recall her stance on Lapsa. She spent a lot of the day catching up but the things she did say, like I said earlier, pinged me more on how starkly contrasting they were to my own views than how scummy they seemed. I'll have to reread/question her to come to something conclusive there.
  
• Pine - His vote was only ever on Lapsa yesterday I think (after a page 1 Cabd vote) because he was gone almost all day and that was where he set his vote when Lapsa started attacking Cabd's joke mason claim. Today he's seemed towny enough but we'll see how that progresses. Yesterday's lurk could have been scum that saw that he was the first vote on what looked to him like an all town L-2 wagon on another town (scum!Pine wouldn't have known Cloud was scum), and decided instead of wallposting his catchup like he promised, that he would just let us mislynch Lapsa.
  
• Elbirn - He was never really pointed at by Cloud yesterday so I hesitate to say he's the scum on the Lapsa RVS wagon. He did later TR Tywin though, but his vote was on Nosferatu at the end of the day with Sonia's. Can't really fault him for having a different read on Nos than me but I've been suspicious of the players that pushed Nos rather than Pine. If Pine were scum it would explain that trend I think.
  
• Syryana - Looking at Cloud's first post in thread and the way cloud tried to lead Transcend into defending Tywin I think he would make sense as scum with Tywin. I got town feels from Transcend though so I'm not really set on scumreading this. He's the only vote on the final Lapsa wagon that looks scum to me though so I've got my eye on him.
  
• Tywin - It's still hard to say if his emotional posting was frustrated town or frustrated scum. It's hard for me to let go of pushing this scumread but I'm willing to put it on the back burner knowing he might get vigged tonight. The fact remains he was misrepping Titus and refused to acknowledge it when his misreps were quoted though. If we can't come to a good decision by deadline this is the best lynch imo.
  
  Summary:
  Town: Titus, Alisae*, Cabd
  Townlean: Gamma, Aj, Nosferatus
  
  ------Lynch Line------
  
  Nullscum: Nero, Mozamis, Elbirn, Pine
  Scumlean:Sonia**, Syryana,
  Scum: Tywin
  
  *Could still be SK, but less likely now than yesterday
  **Could rise depending on how Titus justifies not lynching her
  
  [Elbirn, Pine, Mozamis, Syryana] would be a nice scumpool if Titus can convince me Sonia is town. That pool would work with town!Nero also, considering Elbirn being on the RVS wagon but missing from the final wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not lynching Titus, Alisae, Nosferatu, or Cabd today. Might not lynch Sonia depending on how Titus answers, but I don't think she has an answer to convince me of Sonia's towniness. Gamma and Aj I'm starting to like for town after reading yesterday's posts without confbias glasses on Aj, and seeing how Gamma reacted to the people cliaming Tywin was town. His progression from scum!Tywin to town!Tywin read looked like mine and I'm town so I think he was also swayed by the opinions of his TRs.

That leaves Nero, Mozamis, Pine, Elbirn (I totally forgot to mention Elbirn was one of the people TRing Tywin in my last post), Syryana, and Tywin. Looking at the lynch wagon and the RVS wagon side by side, (blue being town fmpov, red/green being confirmed):

Lapsa Wagons

Lapsa

5 (Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Titus

,

Alisae

, Elbirn)

Lapsa

9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

,

Titus

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

• Nero - He may be scum that saw that Lapsa reached a 5-person wagon comprised entirely of town and decided that would be an easy excuse to FoS town all day and not have to look at his partners. The same could be said of me for a while but I eventually started looking outside of this wagon when nothing was really adding up. He didn't. scum!Nero flip would be extremely telling of the first wagon's alignment imo.
  
• Mozamis - I don't recall her stance on Lapsa. She spent a lot of the day catching up but the things she did say, like I said earlier, pinged me more on how starkly contrasting they were to my own views than how scummy they seemed. I'll have to reread/question her to come to something conclusive there.
  
• Pine - His vote was only ever on Lapsa yesterday I think (after a page 1 Cabd vote) because he was gone almost all day and that was where he set his vote when Lapsa started attacking Cabd's joke mason claim. Today he's seemed towny enough but we'll see how that progresses. Yesterday's lurk could have been scum that saw that he was the first vote on what looked to him like an all town L-2 wagon on another town (scum!Pine wouldn't have known Cloud was scum), and decided instead of wallposting his catchup like he promised, that he would just let us mislynch Lapsa.
  
• Elbirn - He was never really pointed at by Cloud yesterday so I hesitate to say he's the scum on the Lapsa RVS wagon. He did later TR Tywin though, but his vote was on Nosferatu at the end of the day with Sonia's. Can't really fault him for having a different read on Nos than me but I've been suspicious of the players that pushed Nos rather than Pine. If Pine were scum it would explain that trend I think.
  
• Syryana - Looking at Cloud's first post in thread and the way cloud tried to lead Transcend into defending Tywin I think he would make sense as scum with Tywin. I got town feels from Transcend though so I'm not really set on scumreading this. He's the only vote on the final Lapsa wagon that looks scum to me though so I've got my eye on him.
  
• Tywin - It's still hard to say if his emotional posting was frustrated town or frustrated scum. It's hard for me to let go of pushing this scumread but I'm willing to put it on the back burner knowing he might get vigged tonight. The fact remains he was misrepping Titus and refused to acknowledge it when his misreps were quoted though. If we can't come to a good decision by deadline this is the best lynch imo.

Summary:
Town: Titus, Alisae*, Cabd
Townlean: Gamma, Aj, Nosferatus

------Lynch Line------

Nullscum: Nero, Mozamis, Elbirn, Pine
Scumlean:Sonia**, Syryana,
Scum: Tywin

*Could still be SK, but less likely now than yesterday
**Could rise depending on how Titus justifies not lynching her

[Elbirn, Pine, Mozamis, Syryana] would be a nice scumpool if Titus can convince me Sonia is town. That pool would work with town!Nero also, considering Elbirn being on the RVS wagon but missing from the final wagon.

Edited formatting

@Mod, please spoiler my above post if you get a chance

[Alisae]

Kyouko, I'm sorta seeing a contradiction here.
How can Tywin be scum but not be in your scumpool?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Alisae - He still looks like scum from the blatant disregard for the evidence that shows him misrepping Titus. It's not out of the question that Cloud was looking for towncred with how hard he was proclaiming Tywin was town though, which points to town!Tywin. He's not in my scumpool there because I expect you will decide on him tonight, and I don't think he should be the focus of investigation today. Rather, I think we will be able to settle on a lynch that will indicate Tywin's alignment post-flip. That will help you decide if he's town or scum, and then you will either shoot him or you won't.

What is this responding to? It's not a Traitor crumb for your scumteam is it?

It is a traitor crumb for my scumteam.

Also worth noting that after this post that the scumteam might have wanted to avoid lynching Lapsa because they might have believed this. If that's the case his wagon very well could have been all town, minus the only scum that knew Lapsa wasn't the traitor: Cloud, the real traitor.

[Alisae]

But I wanted to shoot you tonight and use Tywin as todays lynch ;~;
Fine, I guess you have a good point ;~;
My letter to Santa is still the same tho.
Also like my Avi?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Elbrin prob town. Unpressurised fake claims are normally town on this site. Scum tend not to like putting the spotlight on them.
So he is now my strimgest town read.

This looks like an overexplained stretch of a town read and wouldn't be surprised to see these flip scum together

Ok just speed reading thru, so gonna give out "gut reads".
Tywin postin too much for scum? Sure I said that sarcastically, but he really is sticking his neck out. Tempering my scum read

SSbm town? His p #455 giving reads, trying tentatively to work out set up, which seems town.

Jeez Sonia punctuate if you want to be read.

But town since she is stream of consciousness

? p459

Cloud is town. He is saying things as he sees them.

Cabd looks really town. Unfortunately, he is a good player, so that means nothing. Null.

Lapsa lurkery scum

?

ITS THE OLD PROBLEM, THE THREAD IS PROBABLY NINETY PER CENT TOWN. I'm ALWAYS UP FOR LYNCHING LURKERS, SINCE HIGH PROBABLITY OF SCUM. Worst case you get rid of useless town.

Certainly out of the "big guns", I'd be most willing to take a punt on itus, who I am sure is more "one- linery" than she was. Lots of activity, but where are the stribg reads?

More to come after tea! I know you can't wait for more Mozza

Here's my issue with the bolded bits:
That's another fishy reason to townread someone in Sonia. If Cabd looks really town then why can't he be town? Looks like an excuse for scum to keep obvtown!Cabd open as a lynch option by throwing doubt into town's mind about if he's faking it or not

People who arent posting/lurkers
LIL, NERO, NERFS, TRANSCEND.

Bound to be at least one scum here.

Nerfs is Nosferatus I'm pretty sure. We've seen LUV (LIL) flip town, which leaves Nero and Transcend. Strange that she leaves Pine off this list, when he was lurking more than Transcend/Nero (but not Nosferatus) at the time.

And AJ

She adds Aj, so she clearly rethinks her list, but still doesn't come up with Pine.

I'm up for the Gamma wagon as well, but

only for reasons of lurkery

.
Titus is scum, she's a shadow of her town self...

Emphasis on lurking again, still no mention of Pine. Scum trying to distract town from the scum lurkers and point us towards the town lurkers imo.

OK, caught up.

Town: Me, Sonia, Cloud.
Prob town: SSBm, ELbirn. Pine

Null: Cabd, AJ, Uzi, Nero, Gamma, Transcend, Nosferatu

Pos scum: Twin, Lapsa, Alisea

Scum: Titus.

First reads list, and she says she's caught up. For all the emphasis she's had on lynching lurkers I think Pine is absurdly high on this list. Lots of nulls leaves options open for bussing and mislynching. Tywin might be a bus here.

and without day talk, Titus can't reprimand Alisae for the blatant buddying. That will happen N1 IMO.

Yeah, townslip surely.

Indicating belief that Tywin has townslipped, gross.

He hasn't shown any signs of backing down when presented with evidence showing why his argument is wrong. This is scummy.

Not really. Town can be obstinate as hell. If not more so than scum, who tend to back down 'cos they dont want an argument/piss anyone off.
Which is another reason why Tywin is prob town.

Further defense of a slot she scumreads in her last reads list

Moz, is there anything about Tywin that could make people think that he is scummy?

Not anymore. The guy should get an oscar if he's faking it.

Still defending Tywin

So my biggest change is obviously Tywin, who is town.
Titus...aaaah, i dunno. She is voting Lapsa. Which seems town. But could be a bus. She still seems a pale imitation of town Titus.
Voting either Titus or Lapsa cant be bad anyway.

Alisea less scummy.

Cabd prob town. Gotta hope so, anyway. Surely even scum Cabd wouldnt be this involved.
Cloud and Sonia strong town.

Evryone else...weak town or null i guess.
Nero worries me a bit. Another strong player who is normally more "in-yer-face", if i remember correctly.
It's 3 Am so this isnt the best list ever.
But it's my stand out thoughts.
We should lynch:
TITUS, LAPSA, NOSFER, UZI.
Maybe some other lurker I've forgotten.
We should get Titus lynched though.

This lynch list is half conftown and half my strong TRs. Still forgets about Pine, but it is admittedly 3am and she says "Maybe some other lurker I've forgotten"

Why is Lapsa at l-2 again? I want blood but if it's lurker blood I want nosferatu

Agree.
Tbh, I suspect many of the votes on Lpasa, including mine, are based on a vgue impression that he 1) lurked 2) opportunitic vote on Tywin.
But 2)...well, he could be rash town as well, so god knows.

Last ditch effort for scum to derail the wagon on the player they think is their traitor?
Let's lynch in here today and if one flips scum shoot the other

VOTE: Mozamis

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also if we lynch there and 1 flips scum and then ali shoots the other and that flips scum too, lynch pine tomorrow for swift justice

[Alisae]

The other being? I think I may or may have not have missed it in your post ;~;

[Elbirn]

Merry Christmas friends ^^ Been doing the holiday thing all day. Let's see..

Ok Alisae that answer works. Also I think I found an Alisae vig crumb while rereading the great Tywin fiasco looking for who was reading him as town to see if it looked like a scumteam derailing his lynch (mostly inconclusive so far, but Gamma is probably town regardless of Tywin's alignment). Check the bolded in her post out:

I'm done with this shit.

Dayvig: Tywin Lannister

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot.

Reading this the first time around I actually did a double take like "wait did...Did she just claim vig?"

So uh yeah I buy that

Kyouko, you want more crumbs, evertime I said "Mew" was a crumb because it ryhmes with "Pew"

This is bullshit but I believe it

I also kinda want to put my moon logic thinking cap on and go, yeah, serial killers stab, would she have been thinking about guns as sk? Would a newb sk think "yeah I'm gonna crumb vig instead by making gun sounds hahaha"

Or am I insane?

[Elbirn]

The other being? I think I may or may have not have missed it in your post ;~;

Oh scum Kyouko is telling you to shoot me, which is really fucking stupid.

Awful lotta shade throwing towards me lately actually, hope you're ready for me to throw another hissy fit

[Elbirn]

You should shoot Elbrin in the face.

Can we lynch lynch Mozamis Elbrin Tywin SSM nero

Yeah that great to Tipsy Titus

Pick one

So is that a no on telling me why I should vote for moz?

No help, just suddenly elbirn is a shitter?

[Nero Cain]

Just quickly but I don't really want to do Moz. Like alot of the stuff he's saying today is silly and he's voting town (assuming that he's still voting me) but niether of those are scum tells ever. Sonia, SSBM, Elbrin seem like the best places for a scum lynch, Ali aside. I'll reply to other stuff during halftime and/or after the game.

[Elbirn]

Anyway @Kyouko

You bring up pine and Moz as a connection because moz pushes lurkers but never brings up pine. I'd think that scum would be more concious of who their teammates are and what they're doing. If moz is scum I'd expect him to have his mates as reads one way or the other.

Idk I don't really have anything else to add, it's Christmas I'm busy. I found your point interesting that scum could have avoided the Lapsa wagon or built a counter one, believing him to be the traitor, but don't believe it would be completely devoid of scum. At any rate I'll have to think about it because I was already going with a theory that scum saw a nos wagon and then said "no" and finished pushing through that Lapsa wagon.

*headscratch* but this all depends on whether or not you're scum and there's the cloud thing look fucking it's Christmas I'll talk to you people later

[Aj The Epic]

Mozamis' reads early in d2 were so bad I was ready to lynch him there.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The other being? I think I may or may have not have missed it in your post ;~;

Oh scum Kyouko is telling you to shoot me, which is really fucking stupid.

Awful lotta shade throwing towards me lately actually, hope you're ready for me to throw another hissy fit

I'm telling her to shoot you if mozamis flips scum, and to shoot mozamis if you flip scum, based on this post:

Why is Lapsa at l-2 again? I want blood but if it's lurker blood I want nosferatu

Agree.
Tbh, I suspect many of the votes on Lpasa, including mine, are based on a vgue impression that he 1) lurked 2) opportunitic vote on Tywin.
But 2)...well, he could be rash town as well, so god knows.

Anyway @Kyouko

You bring up pine and Moz as a connection because moz pushes lurkers but never brings up pine. I'd think that scum would be more concious of who their teammates are and what they're doing. If moz is scum I'd expect him to have his mates as reads one way or the other.

Idk I don't really have anything else to add, it's Christmas I'm busy. I found your point interesting that scum could have avoided the Lapsa wagon or built a counter one, believing him to be the traitor, but don't believe it would be completely devoid of scum. At any rate I'll have to think about it because I was already going with a theory that scum saw a nos wagon and then said "no" and finished pushing through that Lapsa wagon.

*headscratch* but this all depends on whether or not you're scum and there's the cloud thing look fucking it's Christmas I'll talk to you people later

Well Moz TRed Pine for his early activity and then just excused his lurking for the rest of the day. She confirms this in one of her posts today, saying he looks like he was coasting off an early strong town-looking start. Pretty sure Pine's in the upper town half of her early reads lists and then just gets left off her list in the next reads post in which she talks about lynching LUV, Nosferatus, Lapsa, or Titus. Also Nos is town so I don't see scum ignoring that wagon, especially since her mislynch would give almost no information to town considering how little she'd posted. She would be a prime mislynch target because of that.

[Elbirn]

Yeah Kyouko your ideas are all weak sauce preflip associations and criticizing moz for not wanting to lynch a townread. Like, no shit. And I'm obviously biased here, but the fact that you think post 2016 is the scum team's evil plan to sway town to derail a wagon gave me a hearty chuckle

Ill give you this much, If I understand that last bit there, you see moz as having an illogical thought progression of reads when he says "pine is coasting" and then doesn't follow up and shifts focus to a lynch pool of others. Fair point.

I'd love to hear how nos is town though, and more about how lynching lurking scumfucks who aren't doing anything is bad.



(Sidenote: I know moz's avatar is a really cute girl but he's a guy, pls don't call him a she it may make him upsetti)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

wouldn't want to upsetti mr. mozetti

The problem is that if Mozamis treats one lurker differently than another then it suggests he knows something about the odd lurker out. The only way he'd know that is if he were a mason or scum, and he's not a mason. I've clarified you 2 should only be shot at it the other flips scum. That's not the kind of pre-flip association that is wrong to make. It's wrong to say "Mozamis is scummy and looks like he's with Elbirn so we should lynch/vig Elbirn before we see what Mozamis is." That's not what I'm saying. I think Mozamis is scummy, and I think that post implicates you with him if he ever flips scum. Maybe him agreeing with you was scum!Mozamis jumping on a townie's idea in order to confuse associations in the case of a flip. That's still a possibility, but it doesn't make him any less scummy.

idk, if you can't see town!Nosferatus from her ISO alone I don't know how to explain it. She screams town to me though.

I didn't say lynching lurkers was bad, I said Mozamis is separating one lurker from the rest on a consistent basis as he pushes for us to lynch lurkers. It's a contradiction, and I think his remarks directed at Pine today lack conviction, which indicates to me he is not serious in his questioning of Pine's activity. If it makes you feel better Elbirn I'd suggest Alisae pick between you and Pine if Mozamis flips scum today. Pine would probably be the better shot in that scenario anyways, I just don't like 2016. It really pings my scumdar.

[Titus]

My response is drunk Titus. You get coherent in the morning.

[mozamis]

alright, another catch up...

[mozamis]

Unlynchable today:
Me, Cabd, Titus, Alisea, Tywin

This is as much for my bebefit as for anyone elses. Before I get lost in the fog. Everyone else is up for grabs. But those 5 are simply a no go, end of.

[mozamis]

On the Pine, thing,I still say his response/total confusion to Cabd joke on Day 1 looked really fucking town. Which means Pine (his OMGUS post against me notwithstanding) is still really fucking town.

[mozamis]

"This arbitrary list of 5 player names I picked out of a hat has to include scum because of fairy dust and child-dreams. I'm going to ignore any actual sense, logical thought, or work done by this player afterwards to take a mental diarrhea on them instead"

None of these were arbitray. I provided clear reasons for them.
Are you reading or just pressing buttons at random?
It looks like you dont like beong taken out of my town pile.

[mozamis]

@ Alisae if I were you, I would try and get consensus of people NOT to shoot.
i.e like the people in my town list, but from everyone. Or you know, a rough idea of who not to shoot.
Then use your best judgement of who to shoot out of the remaining.