Mafia 113: Mafia in Mendo ~ Game Over

[Ythill]

If we'd gone with claimed-doc lynch: When Chnorek had flipped scum, the % chance of Dram being scum -> 0.

I once hard-bussed in LYLO to gain this same level of trust. Next morning, the two living townies voted each other right away and I had my choice for the scum-hammer.

[chnorek]

first: sory about pretending to quote PM, was my accident, wont happen again.

it was almost impossible to lynch me because of possibility me being mafia doc, shot in foot in my opinion. would require all town to agree somehow i cant believe it.
i was afraid of CMAR buddying me and nico too much.
both mpr and boberz were people i was expecting to vote on dram.

[Ythill]

first: sory about pretending to quote PM, was my accident, wont happen again.

That ruling was the toughest call I've had to make as a mod. On the one hand, I understood the mistake (see below). On the other hand, a lot of people believe that townies are more likley to be cited for this and I didn't want a rules violation to psuedo-confirm scum in LYLO. If I'd modkilled, it wouldn't have ended the game, but it would have seriosuly broken it in favor of town.

Sorry if I made the wrong call.

The mistake (for those who didn't have my global viewpoint) was that I initially gave the doc flavor to CMAR, who posted it in the scum-QT with quotation marks, which was explicitly allowed. Then chnorek copy-pasted it here. It was very obvious to me that he didn't

mean to

pretend to quote his role PM.

[dramonic]

obviously i'd have gone with the CMAR lynch

Also I TOLD YOU he was scum people, but nooooo ><

[bv310]

Woot! First scum win!

But yeah, in retrospect, watching our kill N1 was a poor choice. I would have been better to try and watch someone else, like Jack. Would have hit the Gunsmith N1.

[HackerHuck]

Woot! First scum win!

But yeah, in retrospect, watching our kill N1 was a poor choice. I would have been better to try and watch someone else, like Jack. Would have hit the Gunsmith N1.

I totally disagree. The only other option would be to watch a really scummy looking townie in the hopes of catching a cop or a vig/sk. Watching your nk target gives you the best possible outcome if a doc protect is successful.

[CryMeARiver]

Shit, 4 scum,

with

poison day kill. Not quite balanced.

I think it was balanced toward a scum win, but not as much as people (aka Dram) are going to be ranting about here in a minute. The town had seven misses. Four if the vig wasn't shooting. Remember, the scum only got one kill N1.

IMO, the town played a pretty abysmal game here. The scum made one really bad mistake and it cost them their watcher, but they played it well otherwise. The town didn't even seem to be rereading the thread. CMAR made a post on D2 that should have gotten both he and chnorek killed before endgame, but nobody even mentioned it. Also, FTR, Fonz had 2/3 living scum picked out on D3 in the Graveyard. Killing him might have been the best play the scum made, though poisoning the BPT and turning LYLO around on Dram were helpful as well.

But no, a town win wasn't easy. The best strategy was obvious: hunt the poisoner down at all costs. Scum were in the same boat with the vig. Removing the second kill from either team while the other one was still alive was nearly a guarenteed victory.

Other caveats: Delivering the poison target was a night action (could be blocked), but the actual kill was a day action (could not be protected but killing the poisoner on the previous night prevented it). Vig:scum endgame was a town win. Jailkeeper:scum endgame was a town win. BPT:scum endgame was a scum win. The vig was the only townie with a gun, the poisoner was the only townie without a gun. The poisoner could not, under any circumstances, deliver the mafia group kill; if CMAR was the only scum left alive, poison was his only weapon.

Which post was that? I don't recall
Who did Fonz nail? I thought I was pretty protown all game, but I knew he was a great player so I outted him N1.
Poison doctor definitely would have been a smarter claim. I forgot about jailkeeper since it never came into play. Never should have claimed that.
Dram, you were still wrong about the setup no matter how you put it.
@Chrono: Not really sure who I would choose. It'd go like this: I'd ISO you and see if there was any way I could make a case, and if not, I'd pull the card that Dram thought that with the poison he won anyway so he pushed on a mafia buddy for credit in 3 way lylo. I would have lost

Chnorek: I had to buddy you hard in the 7 way lylo. If you lynched, scum would have lost. And I don't agree that I buddied Nico. I had to also act a bit scummy because I had to be lynched instead of you. If they had started to lynch you, I would have "slipped" on purpose so we could win.

@Dramonic: I could very easily have been a misguided townie and Chrono was scum. You were just blinded by me arguing with you and you would have lynched me no matter what.

@BV: You should have said greenindirt was the one who visited him in retrospect actually. Mafia Watcher > Mafia Goon
Either way, it all worked out.

How did I play as scum?

[The Fonz]

A few thoughts. Firstly, with mpr being vig, the dana lynch turns out to have been the right call. We genuinely could not have afforded to out mpr. Secondly, dram, why the hell did you claim to have a reason to believe mpr scummier than deer you couldn't share? When you claimed vanilla, i felt certain you were scum since that kind of pronouncement can only be power hint or ongoing game meta. Thirdly, yes, town probably needed a poison doctor or a bodyguard or something that could keep prs alive. The double kill with no means of protection possible vs poison meant scum could remove threats with impunity- so we ended up with a guy who'd been vla half the game, fluffier than thou dramonic, the player who'd been suspected all game and led a blatantly selfserving lynch the day before, and a late replacement for a guy who, whilst a good player, did basically nothing all game but rant at people whose playstyles he disliked at lylo.

[Jack]

Tch, I never even noticed chnorek.

[The Fonz]

Greenindirt and nico being scum definitely shows lurking = scummy. Also, with dram, you gotta remember, he and we in the graveyard were working off different assumptions- he, that a mafia poisoner was unbalanced, we that there definetely was a scum poisoner so the game would be massively unbalanced with a scum doc and unbalanced without a town one.

[Nicodemus]

Ah ha!

Reading the graveyard thread has revealed the true identity of Diacria to me!

Anyway, good game scum, I think it really helped that we were able to basically kill off the most useful townies early on, leaving us with a playerlist in endgame that really tipped the scales in scum's favor.

I thought that this game was really fun to play, and it's my first scum win, so kudos to the scum team for that. I thought that Ythill did an absolutely fantastic job modding, his votecounts, prods, and mod decisions were made with great punctuality and integrity.

Also, I'm going to be nominating Ythill for a best flavor scummy, because I had a blast reading the game and I actually looked forward to the flavor as much as the night kill reveals in the game.

[CryMeARiver]

Greenindirt and nico being scum definitely shows lurking = scummy. Also, with dram, you gotta remember, he and we in the graveyard were working off different assumptions- he, that a mafia poisoner was unbalanced, we that there definetely was a scum poisoner so the game would be massively unbalanced with a scum doc and unbalanced without a town one.

Anyone in the GY suspect me? How did I play?

[Jack]

I think most of us thought you were mafia

Although then I was convinced that dram was scum for his mafia-doctor argument, and when you started the wagon I was like "CMAR to the rescue!"

[The Fonz]

Greenindirt and nico being scum definitely shows lurking = scummy. Also, with dram, you gotta remember, he and we in the graveyard were working off different assumptions- he, that a mafia poisoner was unbalanced, we that there definetely was a scum poisoner so the game would be massively unbalanced with a scum doc and unbalanced without a town one.

Anyone in the GY suspect me? How did I play?

I had you as certain scum by mid day 3. See the thread itself for why. Like jack said, pretty much everyone there wanted you dead.

[MehPlusRawr]

Bah, I should've pushed my case on CMAR. He was right, it was more of a "time to scumhunt so I don't get murdered" post, more than actually scumhunting. I would've pushed it, but his reaction was good enough for me. N3, I had checked all the townie wagons, and seen who was on them, and I saw that CMAR was on 5/6, more than anyone else. But due to the above and the fact that I had a bit of a townread on Horror, I didn't kill him. Oh well.

[CryMeARiver]

The Gordon Brown comment in the graveyard made me laugh given the current situation in Britain that just occurred.
Cool that you are in British Politics though. Sweet. I'm just a bloody American here, but I keep up with everything. Good luck with Cameron! (And yes, I know that people don't actually say "Bloody American" )

[CryMeARiver]

Is there a best graveyard scummy? Because you guys were definitely awesome.

[The Fonz]

Having read the scum qt, i'm somewhat gratified that the obvcrap jack wagon was a deliberate scum plan. Lack of scumhunting? He'd done more than anyone else alive! Also, mpr, that furc kill was stupid. Annoying or not, he was obvtown.

[CryMeARiver]

Yes, preventing BV getting vigged, forcing the town to lynch him, and getting an extra night out of it would have been so obviously the play for a mafia doc that Dram's argument doesn't survive a moment's scrutiny, so here's to it getting him lynched.

CMAR to the rescue.

-edit-

If dram is town after pushing that lynch my mind will be boggled. But nico's vote is a quicklynch type vote...

Oh wait. Missed the survivor JOAT thing.
CMAR is scum that just won and is screwing around probably...

Bahahahahaha Sorry

It seems that even no one in the GY ever nailed all 3 of us. No one could really decide between Nico and Meh, no one thought chnorek was scum, and people were confused about me.
To tell the truth, I thought for sure Dicaria was the vig, maybe HH. Anyway, I still thought I played rather well. And I felt we made good decisions in the scum QT. Good game all.

[CryMeARiver]

Having read the scum qt, i'm somewhat gratified that the obvcrap jack wagon was a deliberate scum plan. Lack of scumhunting? He'd done more than anyone else alive! Also, mpr, that furc kill was stupid. Annoying or not, he was obvtown.

Yeah, we needed to get him out of the way and I was hoping that we could lead a successful BW on him, but it was tough. I am super glad I made the call to get you out of the way N1.

[The Fonz]

Ironically, part of our lack of suspicion on chnorek was that his claimed protections were so ridiculous, we didn't think any group of buddies would agree to them.

[CryMeARiver]

Ironically, part of our lack of suspicion on chnorek was that his claimed protections were so ridiculous, we didn't think any group of buddies would agree to them.

Dicaria N1 because I thought I remembered GID saying he had a town feeling from him
No one N2 because GID had mysteriously gone absent D2 and was replaced beginning of D3
Me D3 because I didn't feel anyone really was protown enough to deserve the protection so it didn't matter and it made me feel special lol.

[Ythill]

I totally disagree. The only other option would be to watch a really scummy looking townie in the hopes of catching a cop or a vig/sk. Watching your nk target gives you the best possible outcome if a doc protect is successful.

In general, you'd be right. But when there's a town tracker that heavily suspects your watcher, you need to play sub-optimally until he's dead. It was obvious to me that Deer was going to watch BV long before he sent his target in. Due to watching Fonz, BV put the scum in a position where they were going to lose one teammate by D3 no matter what. The second part of the mistake was going into D2 without a plan for who was going to be bussed in that situation. CMAR was right that BV should have said green killed Fonz, but the fact that he had to say it in thread was a

huge

risk (see below).

Which post was that? I don't recall

That's awesome.

unvote

Let's wait and see who BV says targetted the fonz.

BV was a very weird choice btw. It's who you choose if you want to confirm your role granted, but did you really think he was scum?

Yes, this shall be quite interesting. I am also curious on the reason this was his chosen target. It seems rather strange to me.

But I also agree with the point that Deer made that bv will just say that he watched TheFonz. Therefore, we should have scum either way we have it, whether it be today or tomorrow. Also, big

FoS on

greenindirt

(Get it, I made it "big" ) I really dislike his repeated promises and excuses.

Considering your suspicions, the timing and context, and your tone in this post, I found it

very

obvious that you were BV's buddy telling him to bus green.

On blanace:

I agree with Fonz here. This was reviewd by three players and we tweaked it a little but 2/3 agreed that the finished product was "balanced enough." Plum was the voice of dissent, saying that the town needed another protective role. Near the end of D2 I started realizing she'd been right all along. If I ran something like this setup again, I'd add a doc or BG. Or maybe a backup JK.

Greenindirt and nico being scum definitely shows lurking = scummy.

I learned something about scum-lurking from them in this game. During D1, I noticed that they were being very careful to post once every 72 hours but no more than that. Meanwhile, low-activity townies were "lurking" in a way that got them prods. Definately something I'll be considering as a player in the future.

I thought that this game was really fun to play, and it's my first scum win, so kudos to the scum team for that. I thought that Ythill did an absolutely fantastic job modding, his votecounts, prods, and mod decisions were made with great punctuality and integrity.

Also, I'm going to be nominating Ythill for a best flavor scummy, because I had a blast reading the game and I actually looked forward to the flavor as much as the night kill reveals in the game.

Thanks! I take modding very seriously so your compliments (and the nom) are appreciated. I intend to keep modding games and I think my next one is going to be on the mini theme queue, though things will be kind of hectic for the next few weeks so I may wait a little while.

How did I play?

I loved the way you took charge in the QT. That's an important aspect of scum play that a lot of people overlook and I think it's why people like myself and Thesp are so successful as scum. Your in-thread play was good, but I think you were a little heavy-handed and that's what gave you away.

It seems that even no one in the GY ever nailed all 3 of us.

That's not to say they wouldn't have. Scum cardflips are like dominos.

Dicaria N1 because I thought I remembered GID saying he had a town feeling from him

This was probably your worst idea. With obv-town IC Fonz starting to control the thread, a claimed tracker, and a claimed watcher, there's no way a townie doc protected outside that trio. If someone had reread the thread and found green's townie read of Diacria, they may very well have realized why scum had made that claim.

[CryMeARiver]

I totally disagree. The only other option would be to watch a really scummy looking townie in the hopes of catching a cop or a vig/sk. Watching your nk target gives you the best possible outcome if a doc protect is successful.

In general, you'd be right. But when there's a town tracker that heavily suspects your watcher, you need to play sub-optimally until he's dead. It was obvious to me that Deer was going to watch BV long before he sent his target in. Due to watching Fonz, BV put the scum in a position where they were going to lose one teammate by D3 no matter what. The second part of the mistake was going into D2 without a plan for who was going to be bussed in that situation. CMAR was right that BV should have said green killed Fonz, but the fact that he had to say it in thread was a

huge

risk (see below).

Which post was that? I don't recall

That's awesome.

unvote

Let's wait and see who BV says targetted the fonz.

BV was a very weird choice btw. It's who you choose if you want to confirm your role granted, but did you really think he was scum?

Yes, this shall be quite interesting. I am also curious on the reason this was his chosen target. It seems rather strange to me.

But I also agree with the point that Deer made that bv will just say that he watched TheFonz. Therefore, we should have scum either way we have it, whether it be today or tomorrow. Also, big

FoS on

greenindirt

(Get it, I made it "big" ) I really dislike his repeated promises and excuses.

Considering your suspicions, the timing and context, and your tone in this post, I found it

very

obvious that you were BV's buddy telling him to bus green.

On blanace:

I agree with Fonz here. This was reviewd by three players and we tweaked it a little but 2/3 agreed that the finished product was "balanced enough." Plum was the voice of dissent, saying that the town needed another protective role. Near the end of D2 I started realizing she'd been right all along. If I ran something like this setup again, I'd add a doc or BG. Or maybe a backup JK.

Greenindirt and nico being scum definitely shows lurking = scummy.

I learned something about scum-lurking from them in this game. During D1, I noticed that they were being very careful to post once every 72 hours but no more than that. Meanwhile, low-activity townies were "lurking" in a way that got them prods. Definately something I'll be considering as a player in the future.

I thought that this game was really fun to play, and it's my first scum win, so kudos to the scum team for that. I thought that Ythill did an absolutely fantastic job modding, his votecounts, prods, and mod decisions were made with great punctuality and integrity.

Also, I'm going to be nominating Ythill for a best flavor scummy, because I had a blast reading the game and I actually looked forward to the flavor as much as the night kill reveals in the game.

Thanks! I take modding very seriously so your compliments (and the nom) are appreciated. I intend to keep modding games and I think my next one is going to be on the mini theme queue, though things will be kind of hectic for the next few weeks so I may wait a little while.

How did I play?

I loved the way you took charge in the QT. That's an important aspect of scum play that a lot of people overlook and I think it's why people like myself and Thesp are so successful as scum. Your in-thread play was good, but I think you were a little heavy-handed and that's what gave you away.

It seems that even no one in the GY ever nailed all 3 of us.

That's not to say they wouldn't have. Scum cardflips are like dominos.

Dicaria N1 because I thought I remembered GID saying he had a town feeling from him

This was probably your worst idea. With obv-town IC Fonz starting to control the thread, a claimed tracker, and a claimed watcher, there's no way a townie doc protected outside that trio. If someone had reread the thread and found green's townie read of Diacria, they may very well have realized why scum had made that claim.

I agreed with HackerHuck and if you check the scum thread that's exactly why I told Bv to be on Fonz because I thought he might be protected (Haha, he was the only protective role, so...)

I considered that many times before I posted that post and I ended up thinking that it was a good enough reason to FoS green and it would come across to town as a failed attempt at humor. Truth be told, I was actually just trying to implant the bussing idea into his mind and he could have bussed Nico. Either way, it worked out.

I agree that it was a bit mafia sided and town could have used a doctor (or poison doctor), but the fact that the jailkeeper and tracker died on the first day or two didn't help. Town was left with just a gunsmith who didn't voice investigations and carried them to the grave and a vig who didn't make the best of decisions. I truly thought Jack had had investigations on Meh and Nico and that's why he suspected them.

About the lurkiness, I don't think it shows THAT much as greenindirt ended up being replaced (his absence wasn't due to his role), Nico almost always plays that way, and I was VERY active in this game as scum.

Ditto to Nico. I read each and everyone of your flavors and enjoyed them thoroughly. Definitely one of the most entertaining and best mods.

When I saw my scum team (no offense), I knew I would have to take charge. Bv310 and Nico are generally inactive contributors in games I have seen with them and green wasn't contributing all that much. I genuinely tried to think of everything before the night ended, but I truly didn't think of the watcher being tracked. I play on a site called epicmafia.com where games are like 10 minutes long and I am so used to the watcher "not visiting, only watching" so I think I mixed up the role info from the games. But I'm glad I thought of the counterclaims before I left for vacation.

Most of the time they had one of us, sometimes two of us, but I found it funny that the GY never at one time suspected all three of us as a scum team. I especially found it entertaining near the end when people started suspecting Dramonic (who I sort of pushed) ahead of me and Chrono (who I saw as uninterested town replacee).

Yeah, I think I thought too much into that one. I couldn't say that he was on Fonz because Fonz died that night, the tracker had a lot of suspicion on him that he was lying, so in my mind it made sense that the doc wouldn't be on him, and I just thought of Bv as scum so I didn't even think of him as a possible Doc protectee. But it all turned out okay because, while the GY caught it, no one in the actual game paid attention to his protections.

[RichardGHP]