Just Play the Hits uPick - Video Killed the Radio Star

[Venmar]

/confirm, unsurprisingly got my top pick and im ready to take control and party up.

vote: elton john

serious vote

[Venmar]

VOTE: Sir Elton Hercules John

[Venmar]

VOTE: CooLDoG
new serious vote

[Venmar]

going to go ahead and veto all of that overly-explained noise, sorry

[Venmar]

yo venmar, varsoon's case is obviously shit but

1. Please explain both of your votes (if they're "serious" you're accountable for them lol)

2. What's your read on Varsoon?

Edit: Wait people HAVE to use their neg abilities?

1. sarcasm in rvs is key here. mostly just fishing for people's reaction to them

2. gut reaction is scumlean but logic and his followup posts says townlean. i will deliberate with myself for further discussion

[Venmar]

will say that i think my negative ability is actually a net positive for the town all things considered, and my self/passive equally so.

someone nitpicking my use of "serious" to justify a vote in rvs, is something i was looking for and wanted someone to do since it's an easy and on the surface harmless thing to do especially from a scum-perspective, and CD did it, so i decided to vote him to prod more reactions. its working ok atm and my lab report is coming along just nicely

also need to read-up on what geriatric really entails brb

[Venmar]

why should i even engage with you, varsoon? would it make you feel better? do you want me to give you a reason to townread me? i don't really care enough for that. your case is bullshit and we both know it? im not interested in talking about it more unless you have specific questions for me to answer

:shrug:

[Venmar]

@Venmar: Ay, man, if that's the road you wanna take on this, alright.

you willingly disengaging me after asking me to engage seems counterproductive from your logical pov

i'll just spell out that if you think that I, or any scum of non-newbie caliber for that matter, would feel the need to hop OFF of a wagon this early in rvs to avoid a "turbo-lynch" on a buddy OR green, thinking it would actually happen, is simply idiotic, and you should feel bad if you believe in it and did it for any other reason other than just to see how i would react. i just don't feel the need to defend myself against the obviously dumb.

i do think varsoon's setup spec as-so-far and general attitude is townlike tho

cd vote stands for now

pedit: voted for elton cause i like ut. switched to cd because of his comment on my vote on ut. simple.

[Venmar]

i'll just spell out that if you think that I, or any scum of non-newbie caliber for that matter, would feel the need to hop OFF of a wagon this early in rvs to avoid a "turbo-lynch" on a buddy OR green, thinking it would actually happen, is simply idiotic

The fact that you're cognizant of this and that you're willing to levy it as a defense of yourself means that you're meta-critical enough to make the play as scum. So, no, it doesn't make me some big dummy for thinking you're not above first-level play, though I do get you taking offense at me considering you first-level, especially if you're third-level scum as would have to be the case here.

you: if you're third-level scum, you would do it and therefore you're scum
also you: if you're first-level scum, you would it anyways as a meta-critical move, and therefore you are scum anyways

oh ok i love these arguments, shows why i don't care enough to engage with them in the first place?

will also point out that slapping varsoon with the above "this move is idiotic" argument wasn't even my go-to response.

[Venmar]

Venmar, I hope to God you are getting good "reactions" because you need to start coming up with your own cases. Aren't you still voting CD?

i really don't like these two sentences. my lack of a vote change from a

fucking rvs

should be indicative enough that i haven't pinged scum on anyone's recent posting, and you turbo-rushing me for content seems forced when im doing what you asked me to do in the first place; address varsoon.

i want to see how others react to varsoon and i for sure and you haven't given anybody or anything enough time for that to happen yet so chill

i do think varsoon's setup spec as-so-far and general attitude is townlike tho

I just saw this. Why do you think thats town? I actually read it as a little scummy. Well parts of it. It felt disingenuous.

its my gut reaction to the way how he initiated the speculation. the intention seemed fine to me. i think scum would hop onto spec, though varsoon isn't a bad player so i'm not giving him a pass for it or anything.

varsoon - lean town
mathdino - lean town
deathnote - mostly null, incrimentally leaning town

@varsoon: i'm not presenting you in a bad way so idk what you're talking about but ok. genuine question, if you're going to pull "first, second, third level scumplay" reasoning on me, which is fundamentally convoluted to begin with, are you actually even familiar with my scum meta? wiki me for a list of games since i know the answer is no. another genuine question, wouldn't the go-to scum response in the theoretical textbook scumplay that i did require me to also lash out at the person who criticises me, aka, you? or is that another "first/second/third" level play thing again and i'm damned if i do damned if i don't again?

i do think that the harder varsoon commits to tunneling me for this however the more my townread will diminish since tunneling me for a

bs

reason with "confidence" is something "first-level" scum would try to do for townreads. if varsoon is scum he gets to coast from this point on acting like he done got me and it's a valid scumplay tbh.

(im also a super easy person for scum to try to mislynch because of how my playstyle gives so little fucks about what i do and i wouldn't be surprised if varsoon would try to exploit that this early in the game)

this is also already my 10th post so im peacing it unless something cool happens.

[Venmar]

i hate making wallposts, geriatric in hindsight sucks

See, this is my issue with you here, it's one of rhetorical framing.
I'm not casing you, I'm 'tunneling' you.
I'm not explaining my thoughts, I'm 'providing damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont play things'.
When I say you're more focused on presenting me in a way rather than engaging me, that's what I mean. You're constantly making these sort of revisionist declarations to the rest of the playerbase rather than just throwing down.

rhetorical framing is just kind of something that i do. i'm an extremely rhetorical debater and i'd like to know if that's an attitude you think is anti-town or scummy.

i mainly just see it more of as me describing what i think you're doing, and you going over my criticisms with me is my version of "throwing down", whatever that means. more importantly, casing someone doesn't mean you're not tunneling them, and describing your thoughts doesn't mean that your thoughts aren't "damned if you do damned if you don'". i'm just spelling out the way i am interpreting your posts and the way they are coming across as, i'm getting to the point. the matter of the fact is that yeah, you are casing me, which everyone can see, and i'm interpreting your attitude as you content on tunneling me via that. me being rhetorical about it doesn't make it not true

i also tend to post just assuming people know what i mean and see, so i'll quickly decipher my initial reaction: when i saw #55, i just saw it as varsoon harping on something i did and over-explaining that harp to justify slapping a vote on me. i assumed everyone would see it as that so in #59 i just dismissed it. i do think that varsoon buttoning down on it has boiled down to over-explaining and over-justifying at this point. i think me indulging varsoon by engaging with him exposes me quite a bit, which i happily do as town, and forces him to button down on his initial reasoning, which he has, happily.

--you're playing contrary to scum playing as scum and playing a level of wifom over scum playing as town. It's not so much damned if you do or don't, it's that I don't find nearly as many justifications for you playing the way you're playing if I assume a town point of view.

the fact you cannot see what i did as something town would do baffles me. unless you're scum, you don't know the alignment of elton or cooldog, meaning my action is scummy regardless of the alignments of the people i voted and unvoted. this means the door has to be open to me being just a townie jumping wagons, in fucking rvs, looking for random reactions. the amount of wifom loops and inception you're jumping through to justify that i would do it as scum is just extremely convoluted in my eyes at this point. i just did it because i felt like doing it, it's just how i play.

i think my initial reaction of not caring, made you continue scumread me (probably indicated by your comment in #73) because that puts me in the "first-level scum" category of just doing it and moving on. then when i indulged you by defending myself, you continue to scumread me by putting me in the "third-level scum" category because i did it meta-critically. there is no indication that you have even considered the town pov here and were ready to pidgeonhole me into either reasoning regardless of my reaction.

will say that i think my negative ability is actually a net positive for the town all things considered, and my self/passive equally so.

How is it negative if you are town then?

upon reanalysis my negative hurts all factions equally but yeah it's more negative than i thought due to a caveat i missed. srry

i'll just drop my vote for now
UNVOTE: CooLDog

varsoon townread is now officially dead for me, will evaluate if it requires a vote later

my initial impression of pirate mollie's post #95 is also sketch since it all feels like she's trying not to offend anyone with it. lots of avoiding of toe-stepping going on here

but I'll wait to push this way, have read Venmar wrong before

first of, can i just say, you format your posts like ass and it took me forever to find this? second, yes. reread valentines mafia and make the connections!

[Venmar]

Hard townreading mollie. Goodpost.

i disagree, please elaborate

mathdino's dismissal of the posting between Varsoon and I as "garbage" feels incredibly disingenuous and unnecessarily dismissive, almost as if he wants everyone just to gloss over it. regardless of what you think of the points made by varsoon or i, or what you think of wallposting, to call it "garbage" is a force since i think most people should have a decent read on both varsoon and i by now. bonus points for cooldog who mirror telled me on some of this.

@CoolDog: You know "HOT TAKE" is a meme right? I'm a dyed-in-the-wool wallposter, lol. I particularly think Venmar/Varsoon's wall vs wall is garbage, but walls are in general fine and I'm good reading them.
I feel like you should be able to understand sarcasm?
Also your setup spec on me is, if anything, more anti-town than what I did. I literally mean "You can trust me" because I'm town. Full stop, nothing more.

don't like this line of response to cooldog, it reads a lot like math just dismissing the criticism rather than addressing it. more accurately, the last sentence reads a lot like as math deflecting the criticism, as if effectively saying

"i know that what i did was scummy/anti-town, but what

you

did was

more

so!"

also really don't like the godel wagon atm

VOTE: Mathdino

[Venmar]

the V's will take over this mortal realm one day

[Venmar]

if you have something to say, just say it bro. if you think that I am scum you better be coughing up something more than, "mollie hasn't got into a pissing match with any1" cos THAT is hot steaming feces.

don't talk about me talk

to

me

my initial impression of pirate mollie's post #95 is also sketch since it all feels like she's trying not to offend anyone with it. lots of avoiding of toe-stepping going on here

im sorry that you missed it

also idk what the "pissing match" stuff is about lol? i dont even remember how you play

[Venmar]

I am not as sold on varsoona as you and every1 who are chugging the kool aid that he is so generously providing on him being town. he is softing that this can somewhat be proven, or something, so cool, I can give him his space. but I am not taking my eyes off of him for a split second cos I know how sneaky he can be and I am telling you he is not being quite as genuine as he is trying to come across. he is serving subterfuge pie and you are asking for more and not even wondering what is in it.

also stuff is like this is what i think shows pretty well that mollie is being pretty non-commital atm and continues the impression i initially got from #95.

[Venmar]

my criticism has been very mild, don't know how i am taking up your "space" to warrant me needing to give you space. i think you're taking a back seat and not committing to anything, which you explicitly just admitted. i don't think admitting it makes you immune from me criticizing you for it.

also, pulling the "oh im just saving my energy to NUKE someone!" reads a lot like "i want a pass until i feel like actually contributing to the game", which i don't like. it's also contradictory since in #46 you seem eager to begin a tunnel and now that i've pointed out you're just sitting around instead, you're reverting to being reserved about it.

[Venmar]

thats a pretty poor analysis of the gamestate as of yet lol

just going to say that due to work and social life i wont be posting again until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest. yall behave and lynch math pls

[Venmar]

It is tho. Who breaks down and inspects the beginning's of a wagon on a null? I would get it if you were town reading them, but a null?

VOTE: DeathNote

im interested in an elaboration on this one.

Not liking how Venmar and Varsoon were arguing until they could both pounce on Mathdino. Feels like it could easily be scum theatre to me.

lol yup that's the play, go from the several viable wagons we've had to very clearly doubling down on an unpopular lynch that no one else has joined, real astute call you got us

the fact you'd use that argument makes you meta-critical scum!
obligatory /s

[Venmar]

1. Glad to know I'm burning bridges. I, for one, glossed over it, when I realised that basically all of it was just rhetoric that could be easily faked by scum and speaks more about your and Varsoon's mafia philosophies than your actual alignments. If you want, I can just start spitballing reads at you guys, but the reality is that conversation you had added nothing to my ability to read you. My reads on you two are much more centred around everything outside of that wall to wall convo.

I think you're pretty locked into your own POV in the game, because you feel like you gained a lot from having that conversation (cuz you were part of it), and you feel like the more words you spew the more readable you should be. That's just not the case for me. And it looks/looked like a few others also gained very little from that debate.

im really not criticizing your analysis of the interaction between varsoon and i; if you got nothing from it, then you got nothing from it i guess. the fact you see it as possibly easily faked rhetoric by scum or an excercise of our philosophies is clearly in contrary to that notion, but ill let you continue to be naive if you wish. more importantly i was moreso criticizing the fact that you were imposing your glossing over us and dismissal of our interaction upon the gamestate, which is key here, and i don't like it.

If you want to get into the theory side of things, I personally don't much like 1v1s and I also don't like reading people's self-defence because I feel like it's mostly NAI; scum will say whatever it takes to get townread after hearing what they're getting scumread for. Feel free to call me a hypocrite on that lol.

i guess i'd have to disagree on a theoretical level. the way someone defends themself and reacts to pressure i think is one of the most telling ways a player plays. i think believing otherwise absolves you of having to further read a player that is under scrutiny and lets you sit on your vote because "their defense is nai". i won't drill you for having a different theory but i do think it is fundamentally flawed

2. How should I be addressing it? Saying "you can trust me" is not rolefishing. My interpretation was "hey Math could be a role that would benefit from Varsoon's trust" WAS rolefishing. It looks like that was a misinterpretation.

When it comes to meming at walls being garbage, I'd really rather not get into layers of irony bullshit to explain me making a half-sarcastic joke.

i was just criticising your response, not really if you were rolefishing. your twitch reaction was to say that cooldog was more scummy than you for doing a similar thing and THAT is suspect. on the subject of post #58, rolefishing wouldn't be my first go-to criticism, more of your eagerness to gain his trust, and more importantly you laying down groundwork for an excuse for not doing anything during the night by saying your negative is too negative to ever use.

[Venmar]

i like Vaxx's #168 a lot, it's a very solid analysis of DeathNote's breakdown of the wagon. i would quibble and say that analyzing a wagon on a null isn't

inherently

scummy since i think there's wagon hopping and voting that can be looked at regardless of the victims alignment, but i think Vaxx might potentially be onto something here

[Venmar]

but that would require him to play the game lol

[Venmar]

@pirate mollie

- do you read my #170 as sucking up to vaxx?

[Venmar]

i do think it's funny that people like UT (who has lurked a bit already) are coming in with the hot take of lynching lurkers. non-factors coming in just to voice wanting to lynch other non-factors is HELLA SPICY

[Venmar]

@pirate mollie

- do you read my #170 as sucking up to vaxx?

no because it reads tonally different from deathnote's posts.

comprende?

nope. i think dn's posts just read as him agreeing with people and i think you're nitpicking it, but i don't know why

--

going off of Vaxx, Espeonage's posts on page 9 are upon scrutiny

bad

. i think what vaxx didn't mention but rubs me the wrong way the most is espeo's vote and jump onto mathdino, which reads like oppourtunistic and sheeping the gamestate. just bad feels all-around around the timing and tone of that vote in general.

@vaxx

- that said, i'd like to hear your thoughts on why you think math is town? anything to comment on the posts and points i and cooldog have made on him?

besides, it was him saying "but you guys I have to figure out how to use all these tasty tasty powers first" not him lurking that I took issue with

sorry if i don't immediately believe you there since #198 is vague and reads more like you getting caught up in the anti-lurker sentiment.

[Venmar]

@vaxx - that said, i'd like to hear your thoughts on why you think math is town? anything to comment on the posts and points i and cooldog have made on him?

Dino dismissing you talking with cooldog (while rude) and disliking wall posts seems pretty NAI to me. I really don't see any rolefishing. It took me forever to find the accused post. Cooldogs reasoning for voting isnt great (rolefish+saying wall posting sucks), and I think yours might be fueled by some emotion caused by mathdino? I dunno you tell me.

no emotion. i think his dismissal of my posts with varsoon is similar to the dismissing that you're criticizing espeonage for, but worse. math actively discredited a lengthy interaction between two players as garbage. i think it's a very alignment indicative mentality; i think the town pov would've been to either get a read out of the interaction or acknowledge the posting between varsoon and i and get different content out of us, whereas i genuinely think the scum pov is to just actively gloss over it all and tell everyone it's garbage.

i will also point out that i built on the case when i refuted math's points in #169, which math has still yet to respond to, btw.

but I don't have a read on Espeonage yet, and want more interaction with him before I lock that in.

Mathdino can you explain why you have to interact with someone to vote them?

I'm also bothered by the vernacular "lock that in" as if its a given you will vote but you are waiting, maybe I'm over thinking that tho.

will also point out that despite mathdino needing more interaction to get a read on espeonage, he was happy to slap a townread on sleepykrew, who he never interacted with.

[Venmar]

Who did you think espeonage was dissmissing and why did you think I thought that?

my reading comprehension might have been poor here, it sometimes is, but it's mainly going off of what gamma pointed out in #223 about the last line of #213; the thing about esp dismissing dn and his wagon analysis. i assumed you were of that and decided to equate that type of dismisal similarly to what dino did

your twitch reaction was to say that cooldog was more scummy than you for doing a similar thing and THAT is suspect.

Can you point this out for me?

Also your setup spec on me is, if anything, more anti-town than what I did.

[Venmar]

i dont think ari is actually trying to play the game. like what is #295 even

[Venmar]

i really want varsoon btw to do something. he's kind of completely dropped off the map for me after his argument with me. i kind of hoped for more content out of him

also mollie. pls do something, thanks

kk giving off some good vibes. also +1 for futurama avatar.

[Venmar]

i don't know, but am i wrong in thinking that dino's last few posts just feel like paniced flailing and appealing to emotion?

i'm also honestly never really a fan of the "oh i was just voting them/starting a wagon on them just to gather reactions!" since it's an easy free get out of jail card excuse if your wagon goes south, or an easy excuse for what is essentially a bad vote on someone you might not necessarily think is scum.

dino

- can i get your reads list on the playerbase?

re: KK's read on SK

- i'm actually in agreement with kk that sleepykrew, though in my eyes not inherently town because of it, has clearly put more effort into the game than other contemporary players he's compared to. i actually think it's a really odd read to nitpick in this case.

[Venmar]

^ i honestly think most of the players in this game would be more active and engaged if they were town so it's a very mute point for me at this point.

[Venmar]

"fakable by scum" is honestly such a trash idea. like i mean literally everything anyone does can be faked. based on how some people play, certain "scumtells" could even be done by town and vice versa. it's such a wish-washy, hand-waving type of reasoning to sort of give you a reason to broadly dismiss a person's content one way or another.

"shading", or what i like to call, making observations, is also just something i do as a player. i rarely talk about my townreads since i think they're town and i don't feel the need to interact with them.

ftr

town:

me

townlean:

deathnote
kublai khan
vaxxkiller

null, possibly townlean:

varsoon (pending his further contributions to the game)
cooldog

null:
sleepykrew (some good vibes, but mostly null)
assemble
ser elton john (not the best vibes from some posts but mostly null here)
hebichan
gamma emerald (some reservations here, could bump this lower since i feel like i'd expect more out of town-gamma based on my experience with him so far)
espeonage (page 9 content is bad, but i've had some good pings since then. needs further sorting)

null, possibly scumlean:

napoleon 3
pirate mollie

scumlean:

mathdino

everything is a "lean" because i think it'd be silly to go hard concrete on anything just yet but im happy with these reads atm.

will repeat

- i want varsoon to do something plsssss. also pirate mollie and gamma emerald. will help quite a bit to help sort them.

[Venmar]

gamma emerald (some reservations here, could bump this lower since i feel like i'd expect more out of town-gamma based on my experience with him so far)
...

will repeat

- i want varsoon to do something plsssss. also pirate mollie and gamma emerald. will help quite a bit to help sort them.

eh wot m8
Is this based off Valentine's dance or...

yes

[Venmar]

is it because his role is too negative to claim as scum?

[Venmar]

someone should explain to me why math's claim makes it a townclaim. like my negative is probably even more negative than his. my positive is decent but crazy disruptive and probably negative as well. my targeted is pretty meh. does that also make me auto-town?

:/

we're literally letting a player coast the rest of the game as a vt even though janitor is a commonly overrated role (though understandably so)

[Venmar]

also like can't we just force mathdino to use his negative and then no-lynch the next day to waste the clean? like the fact we can circumvent it doesn't make it add-up as a negative that reck would design to be negative, i think math might've just found a super scummy ability and claimed it as his negative

PEdit: i have been looking at his play lol. we're in claim territory now too and i felt like saying something about it

[Venmar]

are fucking kidding me. math can litteraly be lying, do nothing, we no-lynch, and it proves nothing. it's not verifiable unless his clean is mod-announced. it's an extremely flawed "negative" role from a design perspective

[Venmar]

will die by the dino wagon atm. everyone else needs to make up their life choices now.

Pedit: i think everyone's negative is scum-utility at best so meh. my negative literally only aids scum. a janitor claim should NOT be be clearing someone here

and no i'm not doubling-down on the just JUST because of the claim. i still think dino is scum by play, and it's too late in the dayphase for me to consider changing course. napoleon is a decent alternative though one im not willing to join this day

[Venmar]

here's where im torn

if dino is scum, then his negative isn't a negative since it's pure scum-utility; this means if dino has claimed faithfully and fully, then he cannot be scum since none of his abilities are completely negative from a scum pov

if dino is town, then his janitor claim doesn't add up, in my mind, how it's claimed and worded, because it's a negative than be circumvented by a no-lynch. there can be an argument made that a no-lynch benefits scum, but it avoids the janitorial clean and makes it a very flawed negative ability from a setup design perspective. this makes me dubious that it's dino's actual negative ability and why i think he's lying and just tried to claim the most negative utility he could think of.

as it is i am not putting much weight into dino's play as a form of redemption; dino has been active, yes, but activity is NAI. active scum are more disruptive than active town. i still stand by all of my initial criticisms of dino, and his extreme flailing and desperation to stay alive doesn't sing as town to me. in the words of dino, activity is fakable by scum, and i definitely do not think dino has been inherently townie.

[Venmar]

it's ok vaxx, we can tell them "we told you so" when dino flips scum

[Venmar]

im a god

[Venmar]

also i don't really know what you meant in #484 but w/e

[Venmar]

^ ill show intent to hammer this as well

[Venmar]

i was just kind of hoping that a player of your experience would know that with less than 20 hours to deadline, with the lynch poised to be either you or someone else, a claim is expected rather than a question that stalls further to deadline

mathdino

- if you don't die, i would like you to use your clean this night.

[Venmar]

i have a reason for asking him to do it but ok

[Venmar]

oh right sorry you've committed yourself to being an un-confirmable vt that will coast the rest of the game, my bad

plssss lynch

[Venmar]

14 hours left for yall to realise dino is the lynch

[Venmar]

what a fucking shame that 2/3 of my strongest townreads just drop dead

also im sorry but it had to be done

vote: mathdino

wait,

Was fairly certain of Deathnote as scum, so I guess thanks to whoever killed him, though I'm lost again here.
VOTE: Mathdino

going to need some explaining here

[Venmar]

gut-reaction is that chara is town (not from the above post but from day open)

[Venmar]

it was a global roleblock that blocked every action that wasn't factional. i thought n1 was the best time to use it since i'd be blocking only negatives from town rather than possible positives. that said i understand i set-back town 1 night since y'all all probably still have your negatives to use. it's an extremely negative ability but i think it was worth using, i don't know, i was super fucking conflicted about it from the time i got my pm

[Venmar]

yes i asked reck, he said people would be told that their shots wouldn't be used. i still thought it'd be worth my time to use

[Venmar]

kind of in a dumb spot atm since i don't know what to think about a lot of things here.

tentatively still think that vaxx and chara are town, still leaning on cd being town for the most part. this analysis makes everyone on math's wagon town except for maybe espeonage, which is interesting.

permanently paranoid on varsoon, mollie, and even gamma. all could be scum if i tilted my head the right way, i really just want more content from all three.

untrod tripod is useless and i wish he wasn't. sleepykrew i don't know to think about

mathdino is probably still scum and two of his detractors (mainly khan) dying makes me feel a lot better about it.

going to need to hunker down on a lot of this to make sense of it all. dino followed by mollie are probably my go-to picks for scum but *shrug*

pedit: ok cool

[Venmar]

kublai's flip was unexpected. he looked scummy af and so did his predecessor.

this is an incorrect assessment. kk was hella town. if anything you were one of the few people (aside from dino and deathnote) that he clashed with briefly.

i also don't think this is multiball since i don't think reck would be evil enough to multiball a 15p game but i also have no explanation for the second kill since i don't know much about factional abilities in this game

Varsoon

- can you answer my question in #552 please

[Venmar]

i think i can make up for my global roleblock next night. potentially. debatable

[Venmar]

no he wasn't. name 1 townie thing he did and omg didn't he take over a slot that was super scummy? I don't remember saying anything about that slot in the prevs day round. it suuuure is easy to call some1 town after they flip town huh

man, mollie, this just reads as extremely awkward. why doubledown on scumreading a dead town player? acknowledging that you thought they were scum is fine, but what is the purpose behind telling me to read their posts and find them scummy? this behaviour doesn't add up in my head. also,

it suuuure is easy to call some1 town after they flip town huh

man, it would be a real fucking shame if i in fact did openly townread kublai before his flip...
oh wait,

townlean:

deathnote
kublai khan
vaxxkiller

i did, lol. awkward....

also taking that moral high-ground of "lol easy to call them town NOW, huh", even when you're wrong, is odd

--

@Varsoon

@Venmar: Oh, his counterwagon flipped town.
I also kinda want to lynch everyone specc'ing multiball on D1.

this doesn't add up in light of posts like this:

GOD DAMN IT MATH DINO,
YOU ARE TOWN, RIGHT?
FUCKINNNNN AAAAH

VOTE: Napoleon

Yeah god damn it, math is town, I'm gonna die by this.

There's literally no reason for scum dino to lie anyway given that every role was made before alignments were decided.
If anything, him being truthful about his claim, as scum, earns him more capacity to be townread because 'scum would never claim that'.

Regardless, I've thrown in the towel on this one and totally have just rolled over and accepted math = town.
If I'm wrong, fuck me, I guess.

Man, if I designed this setup, I'd give scum the factional ability to automatically make people's negative abilities resolve. That'd be a cool way to counter people claiming 'em but not using 'em.

[Venmar]

varsoon what is your read on me btw

[Venmar]

dino's vca analysis also confuses me since if he genuinely thinks his wagon was almost all town-motivated, why does that makes him not-scum since scum would be happy to join such a wagon for a free mislynch? the resistance to dino being lynched is what concerns me. it's also incomplete since he just stop analysis after a while

here is dino's wagon at it's biggest extent prior to napoleon's lynch:

Mathdino(7) ~

CooLDoG(25)

,

Venmar(46)

, Espeonage(30),

DeathNote(35)

,

Kublai Khan(18)

,

Vaxkiller(47)

,

Napoleon III(20)

three have flipped as town. i know i am town, and for the timebeing im happy to give vaxx and cooldog townread leans. this means this was an almost all-town pushed wagon, with the possible exception of espeonage. It'd be really impressive for a big majority of the town to pile onto ANOTHER town member and for scum to just fuck-off to another wagon for (??) reasons.

will note that i think varsoon's floppiness on dino's wagon is something i am going to scumread. varsoon joined early, which reads as bussing, then jumps off when a lynch becomes possible only to return to soft-voting dino when the coast is clear open of day 2 ???????????????

pedit: reading me as "venmar" is fair since i indeed, am venmar. what happened to your diehard read on me in vca?

[Venmar]

i don't even know how to read dino's balls to the wall overdefensiveness and flailing at this point.

i genuinely don't believe that dino is town if his wagon was almost 100% town. it just doesn't compute in my brain. i don't know why scum would counterwagon dino if he was town. napoleon's wagon very likely had scum on it for that reason, but it doesn't give math a pass.

will admit though that hebichan upon iso feels off, mainly the fact that she seemed intent on gamma being scum but defaults to a vaxx vote for (???) reasons. not going to write this off as scummy behaviour yet but it's worth noting

here's where i stand right now:

town:

me

townlean:

chara
cooldog
vaxxkiller

non-factors:

sleepykrew (???)
ser elton john (???)

null/unsure:

espeonage (some early posting was iffy but i think recent posting has been solid/ok. might be bumped to townlean by poe eventually.)
gamma emerald (not too sure what to think still here but im perpetually paranoid. eat me)
hebichan (some bad vibes in general but not enough to sort yet)

null, possibly scumlean:

pirate mollie

scumlean:

mathdino
varsoon (especially so if math flips scum)

i'm happy with either a math or a varsoon lynch at this point. will accept either.

[Venmar]

"guys, i post a lot, therefore i shouldnt be lynched"

[Venmar]

Venmar. Why the fuck did you not use your ability in a town manner?

@ Venmar. I would seriously like a thought process here. This was not an idle thought.

can you fucking read the game i already explained how and why i used it.

[Venmar]

idk why that triggered me. "why didn't you use your ability in a town manner" isn't a question it's an insult. what am i supposed to say? because i'm scum? go away

[Venmar]

Sorry brudah, I'm town this time.

I can also literally prove it, if you give me time.

feel free to prove it anytime

can players townreading CoolDog tell me why? difficult to explain at the moment, i'll take a better look tomorrow

mainly just a lot of mirror telling in general; cooldog built my initial case on dino for me before i even had a chance to do so myself. even more recently and relevantly, though, i'm townreading cooldogs push on elton john since, again, he mirrored me on my thoughts when i iso'd elton myself. i think his effort is town-motivated, though admittedly some of my feelings on cd is gut orientated, but he is probably one of my more comfortable townreads and i'll sit on it for sure for now.

i'm currently in a state of mind where cooldog and chara are the only townie players and everyone else i'd be fine with combusting, and it's not healthy for me

[Venmar]

actually in retrospect i might be fine with sidelining both gamma and hebichan as tentative townreads for now. i initially wanted to scumread hebichan for his inconsistency regarding his read on gamma, but from his attitude i think i might be ok with writing it off as just genuine absentmindedness rather than scummy behaviour. gammas brief sparring with cooldog last page is also enough for me to feel better about the slot i think, mainly gut though

i think our scum lynchpool today should be between mathdino, varsoon, sir elton john, and sleepykrew, probably in that order of preference, though varsoon and elton are interchangable

<snip>

unfortunately this analysis of gamma seems overanalised, even if it's coming from what i'm reading as townie intentions on the part of cooldog.

@Mod: If it hasn't been so already, can we get a prod on the Trodded Tripod?

[Venmar]

just to be clear i think i do agree with cooldog that one of math or gamma is scum, but i'm very sure that dino is the one of the two that is scum, and if there is a flopping scum-hopper between the two wagons i think varsoon is the bigger culprit than gamma in that regard.

[Venmar]

All things considered i don't expect to survive n2. everyone should treat me as conftown at this point

[Venmar]

this game is truly a pinnacle of activity and scum must be lulzing as they coast

It is also notable that Venmar was one of your strong early d1 town reads, and I'm wondering if his claim is what made you change your mind or something else.

pretty sure this is a typo but i'm compelled to fact-check this since varsoon hard scumread me d1, didn't mention a townread on me till this day

I feel like I know nothing this game. I guess I'm still townreading Venmar.

i guess i cant blame someone for feeling lost in this game but why is this the case for you? im currently broken on the fact that you (Varsoon) were quite active and 'helpful' early d1 and then just kind of receded into... being the opposite of both of those things? i feel like you definitely should "know more" than just townread me.

[Venmar]

Do you have any read on the lack of apparent scum trying save me or hebichan

i don't think that there's enough of a momentum on either of you to warrant "saving" yet.

not sure what to make of varsoon's response there but i think he's really committing to the "defeatist" narrative even though i don't think it makes much sense here. his attitude reads as apathetic scum unsure of direction right now since i think from town-varsoons point of view there clearly should be something to go off of.

[Venmar]

[Venmar]

This had me mulling for ages, so I went back to get it. Why are you more inclined to think your reads are perfect when your own theory gets disproven by your analysis, over thinking you are wrong in your reads?

Also why are you not actively trying to make me a dead person if you are happy to give green highlighting to everyone in your pool of at least 1 scum except me. Don't be shit at the game please, you are the closest we have to an IC right now.

probably shouldn't have had you mulling for ages. the green highlights aren't set in stone (like my tr on vaxx is weaker now than in d1), and just because i think you were the least likely town on the wagon that doesn't mean i have to be compelled to death-tunnel you, especially if in my mind the whole wagon was on scum (dino) in the first place, making him my priority in all scenarios of my pov. game doesn't revolve around you. just because i haven't sorted you on the wagon but have somewhat sorted others, like who the wagon was on, doesn't make me an idiot. i'd appreciate if you weren't shit at the game as well

[Venmar]

@venmar.

Ok. MAYBE it was phrased rude. Let me outline specific questions you didn't answer.

WHY didn't you tell us.

WHY didn't you lie and say your night action went through (and see if anyone else lies, or see who jumps or doesn't jump).

WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US!

maybe im a retarded little child but i still don't know what you want from me. if you're asking why i didn't warn everyone day 1 that i was going to do it, i didn't think it was necessary at the time, and if anything i felt letting the mafia know that everyone was about to globally roleblocked would've informed them on how to act. in either case i tried to soft-hint it to dino by telling him to use his janitor so i could block it and see his reaction next day, but i didn't feel comfortable pushing my roleblock further.

re Esp & PM

- shading me when they consider me being an ic/hard town is interesting. im not scumreading this mentality, mainly because in my last game where i was town i just kind of hard attacked the mod-confirmed IC for being an idiot. i might even treat it as a towntell to be completely honest because of that. will ponder it

[Venmar]

Titus coming in and voting me pinged me in all the wrong ways. Voting me is just the dumbest thing this game could do right now.

Like voting me is the dumbest thing. I can guarantee you I won't be alive tomorrow.

Also

vote: varsoon

If versoon flips town I'll eat my pants

[Venmar]

Actually I take that back, Titus might be town, just hella dumb.

[Venmar]

Yeah cause my targeted is probably gonna get my killed and put town ahead

[Venmar]

me: I'm town and I can prove it TOMORROW
Varsoon: I'll prove I'm town by the very last endphase please let me live as long as possible

?????????

[Venmar]

UNVOTE:

unfortunately i will not be doing the same

[Venmar]

i can't see myself backing a gamma emerald wagon today

will always happily settle for a dino wagon, could be swayed for an elton wagon

[Venmar]

Titus do you think i'm a bad enough player that i'd just out myself randomly as scum?

re: Vaxx; i don't think my tone has been inconsistent, i have just simply gone from softing to just being extremely blunt about what i think will happen n2.

pedit: lol you're getting real close all of the sudden vaxx

[Venmar]

was going to post a refute to titus but i think chara is doing my job for me better than i could

[Venmar]

gamma is unlike to be scum i think

would like to see varsoon lynched but i don't think this playerbase is willing to see reason on that slot atm

would be happy to see dino lynched the most tbh

not happy with vaxx either, dropping him from my lean townreads

[Venmar]

vote: mathdino

when i die, town needs to wise-up. scum are in mathdino/varsoon/pirate mollie/vaxxkiller (vaxx townread died a while ago sorry)

chara and cooldog are hardtown for me.

leaning that titus, hebichan, and gamma are all likely to be town

not too sure on elton john and espeonage honestly. elton's posting has improved but not enough for me to townread him.

espeonage im particularly split on. i think his posting has been solid recently but his position on math's wagon on d1 is really all that concerns me. if vaxx is scum i think espeonage is definitely town. esp just needs to get sorted later and for now i will resign him to the mostly null, possibly town category

[Venmar]

also all this sk theorycrafting is pissing me off

the more i think about vaxx being scum the more i like it. game, thoughts?

[Venmar]

i'd have to be scumreading titus for that to be true but ok

[Venmar]

i'd have to be scumreading titus for it to be true that i just suspect people who suspect me

vaxx's townread has died cause i don't think his push on me is coming from a town mindset at all. i don't expect to be able to explain my gut or thought-process behind it though

[Venmar]

i called it too

[Venmar]

(gamma being town. varsoon might be scum)

people being mad about me roleblocking everyone is fair but at a certain point the frustration should be aimed at the setup creation rather than me. it's disproportionately more negative than any other negative that i have seen claimed so far.

and since I don't care i'll claim that my artist choice is Gorillaz and the context behind my negative roleblock is the song "Clint Eastwood" where the flavour is that i get my bag of drugs and throw a wild party where everyone parties.

[Venmar]

i think it's the Fry avatar that makes Venmar so damn charismatic.

you know it.

[Venmar]

you just put him at l-1

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT. DURING THE NIGHT, IF YOU ARE TOWN, AND YOU HAVE A NEGATIVE ABILITY THAT IS TARGETED, USE IT NIGHT 2