Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Elbirn]

It is I, your Ultimate Supreme Leader. Welcome to my world. I am the Leader of a secret

evil

organization.

howdy

delegate: kokichi

cause why not

Oh cool I found scum
Hey supreme leader I'm gonna get rid of your underling first for being too obvious

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles
HEAL: Elbirn

Vote mayor for mayor

[Elbirn]

Heal is for resolutions not delegate vote

I am vanquished

Congress Host: Elbirn

[Elbirn]

Uhm hey important rule update friends

"Once a player has committed their delegate(s) to a Host or Resolution vote, they cannot change their delegate votes for the rest of the day/delegate voting cycle! Players can split up their delegate votes across multiple posts if they have more than 1 delegate, but each of their delegates can only be cast once, and once cast, they cannot be changed. Vote wisely!"


So don't vote for hosts willy nilly but also I'm now committed to my meme of pretending to want to be God Emperor so let's do this

[Elbirn]

I just wanted to pop in and note that I haven't been hit by a bus or anything, my past 2 days pretty much went "Oh boy game opened LETS POST" -> "Oh shit its 4am I should go to sleep -> "Well it's like noon and I just woke up and friends are now here time to spend all of Saturday entertaining them"

So I'm alive.

I'm also trying to do this new, crazy thing, where like...Instead of shitposting loudly and being horrible and nonsensical at this game and yet somehow being correct based on pure animal instinct/gut but it doesn't matter because no one wants to listen to me because I have the charisma of a wet noodle... I'm taking *notes* on everything. Gonna convince you losers with *logic*

Now the problem is I feel the need to overanalyze every post and interaction and I'm only on like page 4. So if anyone smarter than me had some guidance on how to be better than this I'm all ears, either way y'all are gonna wait a minute while I finish this and then get my thoughts out there.

K I'm done fluffing ima drink coffee and radio silence go back to what you were talking about bye

[Elbirn]

UNVOTE:

I have completed my note taking and am now burnt the fuck out. That took like 4 hours.
In lieu of giving a fuckton of questions and commentary right away I'm gonna go do something else and get back to everyone later, but I will say the following things.

I think it would be important to get a Host vote concluded sooner rather than later. I'd hate for us to be like a week into our 2 week deadline before we got resolutions set and then scrambling over that instead of lynch votes. We've also pretty much determined that, so long as the host doesn't royally screw us (in which case we lynch them) it doesn't matter a whole lot who it is. That being said the host should still be someone regarded as trustworthy/widely townread.

To that end, I'm very much in favor of the dynamic duo of Kokichi and Chara as our hosts. Joey is also an acceptable alternative. Titus is a difficult read for me sometimes for idk what reason, but I...*think* she's the tippy top of my null pile right now. I'm fine with her as host as well.

That being said I'm dropping out of the host race, please don't vote for me and split the votes kthnx

[Elbirn]

Can you post the notes now?

Oh heavens no, it's 7 word doc pages of unfiltered barely organized nonsense
...I mean, maybe if I gave it a quick once over but I really don't think it helps anyone but me, and it will only help me once I refine it into direct questions and thoughts.

To that end, I'm very much in favor of the dynamic duo of Kokichi and Chara as our hosts

Vote me then.

I unfortunately can not, as I've already voted for myself in my first post. You do however have my endorsement newfriend.

[Elbirn]

@Joey: can you talk to me about your brass read? He got a frownie face in my notes but I forget why. I'd like your perspective.

HEAL: Elbirn

Honestly think Elbirn's a better candidate for this than any of the other proposed ones.

Boy I told everyone not to do this.
I'd ask why but the pedit shows ranmaru already asked. What have I done to earn your confidence this game?

[Elbirn]

VOTE: BrassHerald

[Elbirn]

@Varsoon

Elbirn's definitely town, given how he's played this. I don't agree with his backing of Kokichi and I'd feel way more comfortable with Elbirn in the 2 people deciding things than anyone else because I feel he'd actually make democratic decisions rather than ones based on just what he wants.

1. Why am I definitely town? What have I done that warrants that?

2. Did you not come around on a townread of kokichi? Why don't you want him as host?

[Elbirn]

@Varsoon

Elbirn's definitely town, given how he's played this. I don't agree with his backing of Kokichi and I'd feel way more comfortable with Elbirn in the 2 people deciding things than anyone else because I feel he'd actually make democratic decisions rather than ones based on just what he wants.

1. Why am I definitely town? What have I done that warrants that?

2. Did you not come around on a townread of kokichi? Why don't you want him as host?

1. You didn't know the mechanics, scum-you would, and I don't buy it's a gambit.
You voted for Dunkerdoodles.
Dropout from the 'host race' doesn't make sense from a scum PoV
You walked away from the Dunkerdoodles vote and then put stock in Kokichi for leader.

No way scum does all that.
Plus I like you.
Bros4life

2. I don't think Kokichi is scum but I also don't trust them as leader. It's that simple. My townread of them comes from understanding them as a player who doesn't see eye-to-eye with my game reality.

1. I don't agree. The rules change wherein host/delegate votes were made permanent AFAIK was a last second rule change sent via pm when the game was opened. Knowing or not knowing this info is strictly NAI. If you feel that's a town tell, why not apply this to others who didn't realize the rules had changed?

Dropping out from the host race doesn't make sense as scum..unless someone's trying to garner town cred. I'm sure in one of the many games of yours I've played you've seen me do such things; I obvtown as either alignment. It's a really easy thing to do. In other words, this should also be strictly NAI.

2. Why not trust them as leader? If you think he's town, you must think he's trustworthy. And with the resolution picking being a democratic process we really just need the host to be someone who won't ratfuck us by unilaterally picking a shitty resolution that no one wants. If it's a question of game skill you should know I'm not the best player, so me as host doesn't logically work either.

[Elbirn]

>Varsoon is speculating about multiball

REEEEEEEEEEEE

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoon

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Elbirn]

>Varsoon is speculating about multiball

REEEEEEEEEEEE

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoon

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Speculating?
It's a fact, Elbirn. No way with Venmar's mod meta does he make this singleball.

Sure. Why does town-varsoon care?

[Elbirn]

I'm having difficulty finding time for this game and keeping up with the pace..I'm still in but I'm drowning help me. I'm going to try to read the past like...Idk 10 pages, I don't even know where I left off but I'm hoping that will make me relevant. If anyone directed a post at me or wants to do so now to get me going that'd be nice

UNVOTE:

Spoiler: This is barely relevant so it gets hidden so you can all ignore it

So I have misgivings about Varsoon for a few various reasons but the big red flag I had I think was a false flag. But what do I know, considering I could honestly only skim what he said speccing multiball + the old game of his I was going off of.

See, little did Varsy-bay-bee know, but I was a spectator of Wake's NY185. My memory told me that Varsoon was scum, speculated about multiball early on, and was caught for it. Because town doesn't give a flippin' heck about multiball, town just wants to catch scum, scum wants to catch the other team.

What *actually* happened that game was that Varsoon was scum,

multiball and SK were public knowledge

, Varsoon was sortof caught for speculating about Serial Killer but not really, and then got shot overnight by Ididn'tevenreadwho.

So with my reasoning being all blown to hell I don't really know how I feel. I can't read Varsoon for shit, he buddies me because we're buddies and then I think he's a scumfuck for it but we're actually just soulbrothers and then I want to scumread him because I have a natural inclination to not-scumread him and I think I need to make up for my bias by being a dick to him.

While I'm babbling nothings I want Varsoon to know that, despite the game being 3 years old, I still think of this post every time I think of him for some reason. It seems to encapsulate him perfectly.

[Elbirn]

You know what all these posts I want to talk about are over 500 posts old it doesn't even matter anymore. The game starts now, fuckoff.

Looking at the wagons, at least 1 is probably scum. Too much investment otherwise.

I'm not following your train of thought here. You're saying one of the wagons is on scum, why exactly? Frankly I'm not much inspired by either of them, Nero hasn't pinged me and Creature has done literally nothing. He's a "Play the game or begone, thot" kind of lynch.

[Elbirn]

You're wrong. Lynch him.

No thanks, he's actually engaging for now

...Where?

[Elbirn]

You know what all these posts I want to talk about are over 500 posts old it doesn't even matter anymore. The game starts now, fuckoff.

Looking at the wagons, at least 1 is probably scum. Too much investment otherwise.

I'm not following your train of thought here. You're saying one of the wagons is on scum, why exactly? Frankly I'm not much inspired by either of them, Nero hasn't pinged me and Creature has done literally nothing. He's a "Play the game or begone, thot" kind of lynch.

At least 1. There's too much counterwagoning for at least 1 wagon not to be scum protecting their own. If Varsoon's multiball theory is accurate, maybe two.

[4] Nero Cain: BuJaber, Shaziro, Ranmaru, Gamma Emerald
[5] creature: Kokichi Oma, Nero Cain, Almost50, Chara, marshy
[4] Klazam: pidgey, Varsoon, Titus, Jodaxq

So these are the wagons right now. If you're voting Klazam, would I be correct in assuming that you believe that either the Nero Cain or Creature wagons are scumdriven? Even if we forget about multiball for a moment, do you think one of those two is a scum supported counterwagon to Klazam?

[Elbirn]

VOTE: GammaEmerald

[Elbirn]

It's snowing so bad that I'm off of work today, rejoice!

@Varsoon, I don't even remember the trust tell from way back when. Was it that you always truthfully claimed your alignment? I don't think you'd do that anymore considering you got shit for it + that's super not cool bro.

Yeah I really dunno how to read you. Like, ur my brodawg. I'd protecc you with my life if I think you're town. And I don't think we've been town together yet so I'm hoping you are, and I worry that might be causing bias on my part. Like if you're scum that would kill me, yaknow?

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I want to give Creature a chance right now to catch up and post and show he is not scum.

Swaying on my Klazam read a bit.

Nero is the only one left, then if we are to assume one wagon is real scum, which seems reasonable.

Hes town

I hear you, until we get a resolution up for votes, I'm just going to remove my lynch vote. We have plenty of time.

UNVOTE:

Thanks, also im kinda bummed that only two players get to see the resolutions, and i dont understand the concept of luxuries in this setup, is there more info in the pm?

Very little, upon a reread, I did realize that Gold is somehow tied to religion, as well. It references religious gold being particularly bad.

Tithe? The in game religious policy?

I don't know that I want to speculate too much about the luxuries, it's probable that they're tied to certain civs and banning them hurts them. So it's pretty much rolefishing and screwing townies potentially, and considering everyone's confusion over them maybe we don't even know that we have them yet.

I'm kind of meh about these options, aside from peace keeper on brass.

[Elbirn]

Did everyone decide kokichi is scum in the past 20 pages because I like him

[Elbirn]

Titus is very likely scum ftr.

Talk to me about why? Do you just think this because of (something about gold that I didn't really follow but will reread if you don't wanna rehash it), or is there more?

Funding art could be fun no? It applies to everyone so we cant really screw the town that much

I'm hesitant about this because

1. Idk what the hell ANY of these resolutions do
2. Giving everyone a buff I think helps scum more than town, I'd rather do a science buff to someone we trust. Is there any reason we can't peacekeep AND sciencefund Brass?

[Elbirn]

I might vote Titus if she keeps holding up the resolutions phase.

I'm scum if Koki dies tonight.

...Ya wanna run this one by me again?

[Elbirn]

2. Giving everyone a buff I think helps scum more than town, I'd rather do a science buff to someone we trust. Is there any reason we can't peacekeep AND sciencefund Brass?

I can agree with that. So science is just for Brass? If so, do that one.

I thought about that too, but it goes back to the problem of putting all our eggs in the same basket but im not against it for the sake of knowing what i does, but maybe brass will die n2 and not being able to use the science
thingy if its a night ability. I prefer the science fund a tr variant

@Nero, science is just for one selected person. It could be Brass, our conftown. Or it could be anyone. I hypothesize that Arts funding and science funding do the same thing, just that one is for all and one is for only one person.

@Joey, if we don't want to go all in on one person we could pick someone else, but I don't know if there's someone we all agree on as townie and I'd hate to buff a scum. Like I guess there could be good info to be gotten from something like that but I don't play to get info I play to kill bad people and making the bad people strong doesn't help that goal.

Also @ Everyone, what is this three choices nonsense? Host gets a choice. Secondary host gets a choice. Stopit.

[Elbirn]

Can somebody address my point about the WC I was really proud of that.

Side note: What are the odds that, for balance's sake, there aren't really any resolutions that are explicitly pro-town or pro-scum, and they all have boons or banes for both factions? It would make much more sense from a game design perspective, in order to keep the mechanic from becoming too imbalanced. For instance, banning a particular luxury might turn off both a Scum role -and- a Town role, or maybe even multiple of one or the other depending on where power sits. I think looking at this from a "THIS IS EXPLICITLY PRO OR ANTI TOWN" perspective is wrong, and hazardous.

I'm assuming this is what you meant?
Because it's kinda like...Yeah, sure. Bit obvious.

[Elbirn]

Can somebody address my point about the WC I was really proud of that.

Side note: What are the odds that, for balance's sake, there aren't really any resolutions that are explicitly pro-town or pro-scum, and they all have boons or banes for both factions? It would make much more sense from a game design perspective, in order to keep the mechanic from becoming too imbalanced. For instance, banning a particular luxury might turn off both a Scum role -and- a Town role, or maybe even multiple of one or the other depending on where power sits. I think looking at this from a "THIS IS EXPLICITLY PRO OR ANTI TOWN" perspective is wrong, and hazardous.

I'm assuming this is what you meant?
Because it's kinda like...Yeah, sure. Bit obvious.

You say that, but this whole time people have been sat there saying that they wanted to make sure that whatever we chose to put forward wasn't something pro-scum. Like that's a thing that the resolutions would explicitly be.

I...Sort of get what you're saying I think? Like it's quite obvious that there's not going to be a resolution that says "Hey, this is the resolution that helps scum! Press the accept button to help Scum!" But there are certainly going to be resolutions that help one side or the other or possibly both or neither and I don't think it's fruitless to try to determine which is which, and even having a discussion about such things can provide insight into where everyone's allegiances lie, I'd think.

Did everyone decide kokichi is scum in the past 20 pages because I like him

I have a hard townread on him but I don't trust him at all.

I'm not sure how you can townread someone and not trust them.

I think he seems a bit whacky, and oscillates between saying some agreeable things and some "what weed strain are you currently high on good sir and why are you not sharing" sorts of things. But I do think that his PoV is from a genuine place, and even if I don't agree it's still what I would call trustworthy.

Or maybe I've just spent a whole post babbling semantics.


I'd like to off topic P-edit, anime has this weird obsession with Nazis and it's

Weird

.

[Elbirn]

World Congress host gets an extra delegate the host and the runner up are provided with choices for resolutions to suggest. The two of them each rank three choices privately.

Today's list had the options of Ban Silk for the day, Ban Gold for the day, Ban Crabs for the Day, Embargo all city states permanently, Embargo a player until tomorrow, Send peacekeeping forces to a civilization (I believe this is jailkeeping and you cannot use delegates to vote for yourself), Protect Natural wonders permanently, protect world wonders permanently, boost art for everyone today, boost science for everyone today.

I chose to put forward, in order, ban silk, boost art, and ban crabs.

Any permanent change will have the opportunity to repeal later if the people decide it is no good.

Whoa, wait, stop. I thought science was only for one person?

If it's for everyone fuck that, no fun allowed. Peacekeep Brass and then pick some innocuous thing for me to vote Nay on.

[Elbirn]

@Varsoon, Do you think I should science boost brass myself elbrin or you?

Did brass not say that science is a town wide buff?

Prove you're town and the science buff should be you

Go on.

Do it.

Dance a jig for me or something

[Elbirn]

Why is ban silk even on the table?

I still could not get a straight answer about what the science boost would have done (town buff or one player buff) and then Titus picked a luxury that wasn't even discussed if I'm not mistaken?

Titus why did you not science buff one of your suggestions?

[Elbirn]

Peacekeeping today is the play, friends.

I'm gonna sit on my hands for now re: silk. I imagine the luxuries are tied to different civs, and they may or may not even know themselves for sure, and without even knowing who is what civ + having an educated guess what civs the luxuries would be tied to..I'm very meh about it.

Like unless someone wants to step forward and say "hey I'm China and I rolled scum" I don't see a benefit in banning silk.

[Elbirn]

Actually I have a quick thought that I'd like to float and then everyone can shit down my throat for it

Do we think roles are at all related to civs, and if not is there any harm in claiming our civs? Like, how in hell is Brazil an innocent child?

[Elbirn]

I know that the flavor for the Innocent Child was throwing a Carnival, the ability of Brazil in game.

In fact I think the one person who -could- respond without issue is Brass, who is already outed. So brass did a good.

Yeah really my question should have been "well brass how does that make sense"

And given his answer I'd say we should keep our traps shut, I redact my previous question

[Elbirn]

Reading that exact phrasing, it makes me think the mafia have a roleblocker, also called a prostitute sometimes. Maybe my mind is in the gutter, fuck if I know. I'm fine with banning this.

Do you disagree with my interpretation of the wording, Elbirn?

[Ban Luxury ~ Silk] - Silk often appears in inappropriate and undesirable situations, and is associated with some of the worst kinds of people around the world. Assign delegates supporting or opposing a temporary Ban on Silk. This resolution may not be enacted consecutively.


@Shaz, reading the above: no idea how you get anything role indicative out of the above. Frankly I imagine that every luxury ban proposal is written out to make the luxury in question sound morally reprehensible and awful because that's why you would ban something. Silk is bad because something about murdering silk worms and destroying the environment, crabs are endangered, gold requires exploiting poorer nations. It's flavor.

Assuming that it's something to do with prostitutes, a role I've never even seen, is kind of stretching it.

[Elbirn]

Scum only have one objective, Bujaber: Eliminate all enemies.
In singleball, that means defeat the town.
In multiball, it means all factions that aren't their own.

I started using the whole 'levels' thing as a joke a long time ago, but it refers to the level of WIFOM that a player is playing on.
Level 2 Scum would mean it's scum trying to play in a way that looks town.

I think that mafia is a more complex game than having a checklist of "Things scum would do" and "Things town would do" and just weighing each player on that scale.
Limiting yourself to that scope only sets you up to get gamed by scum and inhibit your abilities as town, imo.

The creature lynch seems lazy

That is all

[Elbirn]

Oh I did that thing that I do

I forgot I multiquoted thar and wanted to make some joke about how I'm 2nd level scum :^)

[Elbirn]

b-but why did you quote me there?

P-EDIT: Oh, hehe. BUT ELBIRN JOKING ABOUT BEING SECOND LEVEL SCUM WOULD BE A THIRD LEVEL SCUM PLAY MY GUYYYYY

Unless you were town, then it'd be a second level town play, hm.

Or maybe fourth level if your joke was really elaborate.

I'm a 7th level miller vig don't tell anyone

[Elbirn]

Why is this taking so long?

its obvious that we are gonna pass both so I'm not sure why you guys are dragging your feet.

[3] HEAL: SUPPORTING [Ban Luxury ~ Silk] Shaziro (1), Varsoon (1), Klazam (1)
[0] HURT: OPPOSING [Ban Luxury ~ Silk]

[8] HEAL: SUPPORTING [Congressional Peace-keeping ~ brassherald] Titus (1), Gamma Emerald (1), marshy (1), Almost50 (1), pidgey (1), BuJaber (1), Dunkerdoodles (1), ranmaru (1)
[0] HURT: OPPOSING [Congressional Peace-keeping ~ brassherald]


brassherald (2, currently +1 as Host), Nero Cain (1), Kiana Kaslana (1),

Kokichi Koma

(1), Creature (1),

Chara (1), Elbirn (1), ActionDan (1), Joey_

(1), Jodaxq (1)


the following bolded feet draggers are either horrible people or scum. 3 more votes on peacekeeping and the rest ban silk

and yes I know I'm not voting so don't bring it up. Its fucking weak.

"You suck because of x, I'm also doing x but it's okay because I brought it up first"

Eat shit?

[Elbirn]

Is it our intent to ban silk or no?

Because I don't want to screw a townie but no one's saying "don't ban silk" and at this point I kind of want to see what happens frankly

[Elbirn]

Like Elbirn said, this isn't the first time Nero has said "I know I'm being a hypocrite but won't change it and you're scummy if you pull me up on it" in this game. It's pretty shitty. Stop doing that or eat some rope tomorrow, imo.

But he didn't say it's scummy to call him out on it, and either way it's not even alignment indicative, it's just him being a bit of a dick. Why do you threaten him with the lynchee-lynchee?

(Good news re:your grandfather, hope all is well)

[Elbirn]

Nero shhhh I know but I want to hear it from him

[Elbirn]

Or we just end the day? It would take a massive suicidal vote shift to stop either initative. I don't think the Creature lynch will be correct but I feel like the game will stall if we don't flip him. :/

HEAL: Aye: Ban Silk
VOTE: Creature

[Elbirn]

HEAL: Ban silk

[Elbirn]

Or we just end the day? It would take a massive suicidal vote shift to stop either initative. I don't think the Creature lynch will be correct but I feel like the game will stall if we don't flip him. :/

HEAL: Aye: Ban Silk
VOTE: Creature

I keep doing this thing I do

[Elbirn]

What made it awesome?

See for yourself man. It's a half-hour fyi.

Was just more of the same. Don't know why people get so overblown excited/hyped for ports, rehashes, and sequels they knew were going to happen. Then again, I've been kinda jaded when it comes to games/hype since Level5 let me down with White Knight Chronicles, Lionhead got shutdown, and Bioshock Infinite was trash.
Hope Octopath Traveller is cool.

I didn't even watch the Nintendo direct but I got this same shit from my friends: "I can't tell you, you HAVE to see for yourself"

And then it was just another fucking smash bros sequel, why even care

(Also I liked infinite don't bully)

[Elbirn]

You know we hammered without even seeing the resolutions pass and what they would have done this day phase. So that's cool. Gg ez..

Anyway if creature flips scum and I'm not alive tomorrow to bring it up, this is a reminder to all of you that Gamma was real shifty about the creature wagon earlier and you should put the squeeze on him. Actually in general if I'm dead tomorrow I hope you all heed my wisdoms I've said lots of good stuff and I'd hate to be a non participant after death.

Speaking of which Joey is town leave him alone white haired anime lady

[Elbirn]

You know we hammered without even seeing the resolutions pass and what they would have done this day phase. So that's cool. Gg ez..

This is kinda funny considering you called me a dick for telling ppl to hurry up and vote and now you are fussing at ppl for not voting.

...No I'm fussing at people for voting, not for not voting. Don't worry nero I also fail at reading comprehension for example look above

[Elbirn]

They will both pass but I wanted to see them take effect today and see if we got any information out of that. Like "you have banned silk! The floor is now lava!" And we would have been like "oh Jesus fuck who could have predicted this who is the asshole who voted for this"

Course maybe I'm dumb and we wouldn't have gotten anything idk

[Elbirn]

Booo *throws popcorn at klazam*

If creature is already lynched how is that "lining up lynches". Unless you think we should simply not use previously gained info to determine future lynches which is just pantsonhead

[Elbirn]

Oh this game ended

I have no real idea what transpired after I died, I threw a hail Mary hoping to guilty varsoon and then peace out

But then varsoon was shot anyway