Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Scioness Sajj]

hi

who's the biggest wagon?

[Scioness Sajj]

Hi

What is labryinth

townreading this because same

[Scioness Sajj]

This Reality Check wagon looks righteous to me!

okay, i trust you

VOTE: reality check

[Scioness Sajj]

Oh

Trusting me is usually a bad idea

I should've mentioned that first.

uh oh

have not expected you to betray my trust like that, what now?

[Scioness Sajj]

So far, it looks like Joral, Reality Check, and the worst are tied at 2 each. Shoshin's got 1, and everyone else is clear for now.

Hey wait... how'd I get there...

o, sorry i have missed your post

i guess they don't get you?

[Scioness Sajj]

kitty cat - as much as the developments in our relationship are alarming they will have to wait

VOTE: the worst
hello? do i know you?


alright, im off to bed goodnight

[Scioness Sajj]

yes, you have really hurt my feelings and i need some time alone to think things through

p.edit PFFF DONT LOL AT ME LIKE THAT

[Scioness Sajj]

I mean tw has send me a heart so I can let it go, no need to be too petty just yet

VOTE: reality check
Back to you

[Scioness Sajj]

i'm back

nothing really happened huh

[Scioness Sajj]

It was a joke that fell flat. Ah well, live and learn for next time.

60 is a joke?

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: joral

Why?

[Scioness Sajj]

Did we leave the boring phase?

no clue in which phase we are now but it does seem boring

p.edit oh, looks like the boring part is over

[Scioness Sajj]

my take huh

the game state feels weird like it seems some people are sort of out of rvs already, some are not and other barely posted anything. i guess it would be better to stay in rvs a little bit longer but nothing is really happening soooo

[Scioness Sajj]

yeah i am, was thinking about starting a new one today but not sure where to go.

reality is fine, i didn't really get any bad feelings from talking to them. don't really see what TPFKAP is seeing in 45.

what's your take on creature? you seem to know them?

[Scioness Sajj]

joral, you've said you don't sr wheme anymore, what does it mean? is he a tr now or something else?

p.edit ah, i see

[Scioness Sajj]

wheme also seems fine. he is trying to do things so it good, don't really read him for content.

what about joral? i don't think you have ever said anything about your vote?

[Scioness Sajj]

creature do you have any thoughts you wanna share with us?

[Scioness Sajj]

i asked you about wheme

[Scioness Sajj]

actually

VOTE: shoshin

[Scioness Sajj]

Shoshi are you reading the thread?

[Scioness Sajj]

I'm suspicious of Shoshin (first vote was rvs) since his entire post history so far that I've seen is 4 posts, 2 votes, and 3 words, that feels a bit of active lurking.

Princess posts have been quite random and content free, and the whole "stoned", "too much work" feels too much like a ploy. If you're really that out of it, why post? Retrieve your brain, then post. It's not like there was a long-running conversation going on in-thread that you're acknowledging you're done with for the day. I think this is the one giving me the strongest scum feel at the moment.

Riku, Nico, and Nancy seem to just be not here yet, which could just be a function of the weekend. no read.

VOTE: Princess of Renais

why vote for Princess instead of joining fresh and new wagon on Shoshin?

[Scioness Sajj]

ALERT:
THE WAY THE PACE OF THE GAME IS GOING TO COST SOME SERIOUS TOWN ISSUES.

i don't want issues
can just posting more prevent these issues?

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: WhemeStar

you jumped off too fast

[Scioness Sajj]

jumping around and voting people as soon as you see something interesting doesn't really do much i feel like

[Scioness Sajj]

are you happy with that content?

i think getting a big wagon or two would get as more interesting discussion, wheme isn't going anywhere?

[Scioness Sajj]

unless you wanna wagon wheme but then you got to do the work

p.edit yeah, i think i do

[Scioness Sajj]

eeeeeeh

VOTE: wheme

[Scioness Sajj]

my heart is still with shoshin though

[Scioness Sajj]

my heart is still with shoshin though

Why?

you are distant in a way that i think is more likely to come from scum than town

i don't really like 145. but since we are speaking is there anything else that you don't like about rc?

[Scioness Sajj]

i feel like i have missed something about rc

let me check

[Scioness Sajj]

no there is nothing huh

worst, what don't you like about those reads?

[Scioness Sajj]

no there is nothing huh

worst, what don't you like about those reads?

is this asking to sort my thinking or a genuine question?

why do you think i'm trying to sort your thinking whatever that may mean?

[Scioness Sajj]

Their reads suck, they lack any sort of internal logic, and their play feels passive. You're probably right that I'm distant but don't take that as a scum-tell - I'm guessing it's because I don't know anyone so I'm relating to people as strangers, whereas most others here seem to have some history together.

yeah, that's fair i guess

oh i don't really know anyone so that makes two of us. i will be back to see how you've settled in d2 or so.

[Scioness Sajj]

UNVOTE:

maybe tomorrow

[Scioness Sajj]

[Scioness Sajj]

sajj - says heart is on Shoshin as far as vote, says wheme feels town-ish, yet jumps on bandwagon for no explained reason? I mean not like she's paying anything to board that train, worst's 20% off offer or no.. Would like explanation of the jump onto the wheme train.

if you want an explanation you need to ask. i thought it was clear what i'm doing and why.
i'm in a null zone of fence-y reads so im happy to jump onto anything that promises discussion, no point in parking my vote on my only scum lean.
don't remember post numbers but the second time wheme tried to push you seemed forced - i see him as less town-ish now.

[Scioness Sajj]

Better question

Who sees town within

{tgkfap, Renais, Creature}

?

~ Taly

i don't really get scum vibes from Renais. besides the excessive flavor and fluff they seem more engaged in the game than half of the players.

creature and tgkfap are meh

i assume nico and riku will be replaced if they keep up their pace

[Scioness Sajj]

[Scioness Sajj]

Fartsoon is laughable.

Look at my correct % in recent games. I'm done trying to convince you people. My record speaks for itself.

VOTE: SHO

you didn't do much convincing could you elaborate more about sho and reinas?

[Scioness Sajj]

i'll be here later today

[Scioness Sajj]

I mean, I think Renais' fluffposting is a great excuse to be engaged without doing anything, therefore, being filler and downplaying themselves.

Have you played at least 2 games with Creature?

And you have no opinion of tgkfap?

I mean Renais has posted some content/commentary in-between fluff unprompted even if it's very little. I don't think that downplaying oneself comes from scum mindset necessarily. Don't really want to lynch active people I'm not scumreading D1.

I haven't played with anybody here but worst, I have no clue about Creature's play and what makes it ai.

Tgkfap had one post early that i think was more likely to come from town than scum. I like where her vote is right now, wish she could talk more and demand less.

[Scioness Sajj]

...I can't follow your thought process too well with some of these votes.

What don't you follow? I explained the vote on Reality but it's obvious nobody wants to pressure them so I'm voting my other suspect. What's confusing about the vote on Sajj? She posts lots of meaningless commentary and doesn't commit to anything.

bad but maybe towny vote ow

yeah it gave me a pause but is not accurate soooo

[Scioness Sajj]

the worst, why is Sajj town?

there is madness in my method

nsg, is that you?

[Scioness Sajj]

Help me strike people out of this list, I'll start:

The Worst

Nancy Drew 39
Scioness Sajj
Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly)
TehBrawlGuy
Reality Check (Ank/Mastina)
Shoshin
NicoRobin
Riku
TPFKAP
Princess of Renais

Creature

WhemeStar
ArcAngel9
Joral

what happened with your reality townread?

[Scioness Sajj]

it tells me nothing becuase i don't know them. please elaborate how that changes things for you

[Scioness Sajj]

????

[Scioness Sajj]

i mean i guess you don't want to answer that for some reason?

[Scioness Sajj]

alright, thanks

[Scioness Sajj]

hi wheme

do you always scream so much?

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: the worst for an answer on why Sajj is town.

sweaty get off your high horse and go find actual scum

If you helped me out, then maybe I wouldn't vote you. But if you're going to obscure your alignment, then I'm going to assume it's because you're scum.

every other post in my ISO is transparent and conspicuously town motivated. if you get a stick up your ass abt one post which is VERY OBVIOUSLY hinting that I'm planning something with obscuring my read then I can only assume you're scum using an insanely stupid tunnel as a smokescreen.

I disagree. I still have no clue why you read Reality as "badtown" rather than "scum," and you've cluttered the game with tons of pointless posts. I liked your vote on Wheme and that was about it. I've seen scum do exactly what you've done in this game multiple times (including the whole "I'm not going to explain my reads yet because I have plans"), so if that's how you're going to play, I'm going to vote you until I have strong reason to believe you're town. I was hoping your explanation on Sajj would help me read you and her better... but I guess you don't want that?

umm i don't get how exactly knowing why worst is tring me connects to sorting both of us.

why do you think we share alignment?

[Scioness Sajj]

o, btw wheme modded my first game but i don't think it means much

[Scioness Sajj]

Shoshin, why is Sajj scum to you, again? And if you think the worst is scum off of townreading Sajj, then why are you dropping your attention off of her in pursuit of him?

Sajj hasn't taken any sort of meaningful position about anyone. Look at 317, for example. Or look at how quickly her push on me evaporated - she had a tone of conviction when pushing but in reality there wasn't anything to it.

I'm voting the worst because he's making it more difficult for me to read him and Sajj by refusing to answer my question, plus his "badtown" read on Reality doesn't make any sense.

um, in 317 i have committed to townreading PoR strongly enough that i won't vote her d1. thought it was pretty clear since it was an answer to vartsun's question. do you have better examples?

i have explained why i didn't actually push you hard, did you miss that post? quote to me that tone of conviction posts, please.

and the most important - explain why all of this is scum indicative.

[Scioness Sajj]

I wonder what would have happened if I had refused to answer why I townread TPFKAP... bet the worst would have voted me for it...

assuming he would do that, what would it mean to you?

[Scioness Sajj]

i feel p good about worst for that convo with reality

[Scioness Sajj]

got tired on page 18
---

welcome randomidget!

[Scioness Sajj]

yeah, i thought you have just jumped the gun on 317
VOTE: shoshin

[Scioness Sajj]

@mod v/la till 4th

[Scioness Sajj]

The Worst

Nancy Drew 39

Scioness Sajj

Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly)

TehBrawlGuy
Reality Check (Ank/Mastina)
Shoshin

NicoRobin

Riku

TPFKAP

Princess of Renais

Creature

WhemeStar

ArcAngel9

Joral

i think that's where i am right now, should probably skim what has happened since i have few minutes

[Scioness Sajj]

wow, wheme you are talking to me!

yeah, with an expectation of nice/riku/creature, two former will be sorted later and i feel enough people are confident on their meta read on creature that the slot will solve on its own

p.edit i was!

[Scioness Sajj]

nico not nice

[Scioness Sajj]

After Creature flips were doing randommidget because he’s also scum

do you know random well? do you think he is flaking right now?

[Scioness Sajj]

yeah, i thought you have just jumped the gun on 317
VOTE: shoshin

But do you really think he’s a wolf over just an overly paranoid townie?

i don't think a paranoid townie would explain their vote with reasoning that everything been obvious the whole game but back off as soon as i asked them for better examples. i have been not feeling shoshin since my first vote on her i will explain that better when i have more time.

[Scioness Sajj]

Wat

[Scioness Sajj]

Sajj want to lynch creature today or roll the dice with Nico?

eh, i'm not sure, not really reading the game right now
nico's empty slot so i'd pref to wait for a replacement, how active they usually are? is this normal for them?
from what i understand creature is easy to read so if most people are calling him scum then he is and would get bussed if people caught the scent. i guess i'd go creature as compromise lynch if nothing more happens today.

[Scioness Sajj]

Do you want to end the day soon?

[Scioness Sajj]

Hi wow game started

And people are talking that's great

[Scioness Sajj]

I feel that Nico's playstyle will be a distraction but I don't think it has to be dealt with right now.

[Scioness Sajj]

Still TPFKAP has a scumreadable playstyle in my experience so I'm much more inclined to just make up for d1 by lynching Creature

can you read them with the content they has been providing so far?

[Scioness Sajj]

hi ankhead is starting to tryhard

VOTE: Shoshin

I’m pretty sure she’s town, based on a few interactions we had. In fact, she’s one of my top town atm.

are you reading her town for something else than the ate?

[Scioness Sajj]

hmmm TehBrawlGuy death is ???

[Scioness Sajj]

so what does tbg's flip mean

sscum have some form of strongman. i wouldnt be surprised if other abilities resolved at the same time tbg's would have.

why strongman? does your strongman comment connect in any way to the nk?
pretty sure tbg used his role last night.

[Scioness Sajj]

oh
didn't read the card sorry

[Scioness Sajj]

in 891 I mean that tbg didn't use hir role, doesn't really matter

assuming there is a strongman is a good thing

p. edit yeah why should look into Renais too

[Scioness Sajj]

I'm liable to get lolnk'd as well, the fact I wasn't is softly town indicative of {sajj, AA9} tbqh

explain?

[Scioness Sajj]

actually nvm

[Scioness Sajj]

i feel like you have more experience with me than i have with you
but yeah got it

[Scioness Sajj]

You should read the thread, beside some quote walls most are 1 line posts. And RC had some import-ish posts.

Reality scumreads you, Nancy does not. Nico claims role related clear on Nancy, Midget has a grudge against Nico. Just read a thread honestly.

[Scioness Sajj]

How many scum should we expect in a 15 player game?

you tell me

i think it's usually 1/3 or 1/4

p.edit please stop

[Scioness Sajj]

There is a problem with that plan, and the problem is that mastina is a good scum manipulator, so how exactly do you plan to 'catch her later'? She'll dance circles around us.

Nico, how about we just lynch Reality Check if they live for too long?

[Scioness Sajj]

Also, I think it would be best to agree on a pool of players that Nico can choose from if she wants.

[Scioness Sajj]

There is a problem with that plan, and the problem is that mastina is a good scum manipulator, so how exactly do you plan to 'catch her later'? She'll dance circles around us.

Nico, how about we just lynch Reality Check if they live for too long?

Good luck with that, lol. It'll never happen through conventional means.

why not? i think we can bop them.

[Scioness Sajj]

talking to Nico seems pointless, nico's ability is useless

notes taken

[Scioness Sajj]

eh guess that's only me but i wouldn't have a problem lynching somebody just based on bop

without reading much into their posts lol

i'll read that game later, thanks Nico.

p.edit not talking today just like d3 or so, can't we bop Anka?

[Scioness Sajj]

I wanted to catch up

but you are talking so much right now

[Scioness Sajj]

tomorrow?

if that's at me i don't understand

[Scioness Sajj]

sajj pls stop wiki scumtelling

oh

my bad lol

[Scioness Sajj]

RC - ah right, well no I meant later in the game.

[Scioness Sajj]

oh boy

[Scioness Sajj]

who knows honestly

let me roll a dice

[Scioness Sajj]

Reality and the worst are my underground buddies, add nancy to it and that's a town block
random i have no clue, i haven't read any post longer than 3 lines from last few pages. i have also missed his shitpost

i'm in good mood to be useless, sorry

p.edit relax a little Shoshin it's not so serious, I will get back to you with more serious stuff later
ouch, thanks for letting me know Nico. saved a life!

[Scioness Sajj]

uh oh a party!

[Scioness Sajj]

whoops got distracted

VOTE: shoshin

also fine with creature.

[Scioness Sajj]

im back and will most liekly catch up now

---

i don't think Nico scumreads Reality as much as she is afraid of unchecked Mastina running around.

[Scioness Sajj]

i'm not sure if Taly is aware we share a pt

[Scioness Sajj]

page 43

i think i might be coming around to tring soshin
random is fine, rest didn't really change

[Scioness Sajj]

nvm read 1068

[Scioness Sajj]

There's lots of games where town lynched scum and scum still won... so fucking what? There's also lots of games where town lynched for information and scum won. That's a terrible way to determine whether the logic itself is pro-scum or pro-town and whether it's more likely to be pushed by scum or more likely to be pushed by town.

My point is that the logic is pushed by scum more often than it's pushed by town because it's an easy way to push for mislynches as well as an easy way to keep scum partners alive for longer. It's especially harmful to a town that just mislynched or a town that no lynched - as we did. I've even pushed this logic before as scum, with the specific intent of saving partners and delaying the town from doing anything helpful to their causes. As a matter of theory, the best town play on any given day is lynching scum, because the longer a scum player is alive, the more power scum has, period. You weaken scum by lynching them, and the weaker they are, the more chance town has of winning because there's less ability for scum to manipulate town in the night and day. Towns win by lynching the player most likely to be scum, not by lynching the player most likely to give you "information" (what the fuck does that even mean in this context?) - and the fact you're pushing this logic is scummy, regardless of your actual alignment or theoretical beliefs about how to play mafia.

As for the idea that this playerlist won't come together, that's a bullshit way to think about this game and it's especially manipulative in this instance - the town isn't coming together regardless of who we lynch because we've got a bunch of shit posters, you (incompetent town or scum), the worst (incompetent town or scum), and so here we are, arguing about dumb things instead of talking about things that matter, like Random's alignment, or Sajj's alignment. You guys would rather vote me for voicing a completely reasonable theoretical point about how to play the game instead of working together to solve the alignment of players who are escaping notice while doing some pretty suspect things? Okay... Sure, this town is fucked if that's the case.

I'm going to try working with the people I think are town - at the moment, that's Nancy and Nico - and if you're town hopefully you'll get on board and start working with us to figure out alignments.

jesus

alright I'll pick this apart and respond to this piece by piece

if you still wanna do it i would read your response

[Scioness Sajj]

okay im not posting before im done rereading

[Scioness Sajj]

if aa9 is scum so is por
perhaps,

[Scioness Sajj]

Soshin are your reads in order in the sections in 1152?

[Scioness Sajj]

aren't we all

[Scioness Sajj]

to be quite frank with you

it looks like you are interacting with people to the point you can get a scumread on them and you cling to that.

p.edit to Shoshin

[Scioness Sajj]

Who wants to be that random is the Goblin King?

VOTE: randomidget

My first vote is in the works. Congratulations!

I think that Goblin King's stuff is just events, not player's actions.

[Scioness Sajj]

idk, sometimes i feel like i'm reading her for character. like some bad combo of ego and lack of experience.

i'm on board with hypothetical aa9 lynch btw

[Scioness Sajj]

I'd case Shoshin, but it's the kind of case I can't really articulate beyond "look and think about it in these terms"

something like that would help me in general. so if you have time please do.

[Scioness Sajj]

not as exciting but also fine choice

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: creature

don't want to end the day before we get replacements.

[Scioness Sajj]

I point out that Random's hostility towards Nico feels unnatural and Random immediately calls that a "misrep." Does anyone other than Random think I'm misrepping Random by saying his hostility towards Nico felt unnatural?

I do.

p.edit - o boy lots of words to read

[Scioness Sajj]

short answer 1309

i expect you to push for the answers you want to get i guess.

[Scioness Sajj]

p sure that Random's hostility towards Nico comes from previous games they played together; Nico also confirmed that. Nico had poor showing late D1 so his reaction is understandable.

the baby with powers things - i came to the same conclusion Random did first time around; i didn't see the movie.
---

i have to wake up in two hours so i will answer you later but thewrost said you can start a convo with him about me, so maybe poke him a little in the meantie.

[Scioness Sajj]

Idk what he exactly means by misrep but I remember him explaining that he misunderstood the baby thing. That would be a misrep I guess?

Maybe be more specific? Ask about my posts or behaviors that you scumread.

[Scioness Sajj]

I strongly believe the underground thing is very much a player action

It looks about the same as today's masquerade. Do you think it is also player action?

[Scioness Sajj]

Hmm yeah I can see why you think that

[Scioness Sajj]

why is someone town reading me such a big deal

i don't think anybody in this game justified their reads on me

(i will read and respond to all that important wall stuff in few hours)

[Scioness Sajj]

re: Anka because that will be faster probably

oh wow, took me good 4 rereads to figure out the progression thing but i see it now. i agree with 1 and 3, can't really judge 2. i will have to iso her with other people but i do think that Shoshin could be scum with por/gif (i'm basing that on Sho's opinions on por).

thanks for the read

[Scioness Sajj]

btw creature is L-2

[Scioness Sajj]

i will posting this in paragraphs, probably easier to read

it looks like you are interacting with people to the point you can get a scumread on them and you cling to that.

That's not what I'm doing - see my interaction with Nancy, for example - so I don't know why that's the sense you're getting. I've tried interacting with the players who are here but it's not going well and I can't figure out what the problem is.

I don't think a conf/obv town that has a strong town read on you is a good example of interactions.
wrt your scum read on me - you've asked Nancy about her read on me (that was 20 or so pages ago), she was leaning town. you obviously don't agree with her reasons to townread me, you didn't ever try to talk her into scum reading me or ask her to be more specific what's so town about me. you only asked for information but did nothing with them. beside suspending your scumread on me for unknown reason, you did remember to highlight it's only temporary though
I can't really tell you why people your interaction don't go well. I don't think it's really that bad, besides worst nobody really is denying you anything. (and again, i have pushed you to talk things out with worst but you dropped as soon as you were supposed to go into specific so)

I'm trying to make things happen and to inject some adrenaline into what feels (or felt) like a toxic gamestate, I'm engaging players, asking questions, trying to talk about reads, trying to refine reads, but instead I'm getting a lot of hostility and aggression or simply getting ignored.

Eh I didn't really get a feeling you are doing those things.
I'm not sure why you put so much emphasis on hostility/aggression, from my experience (i've played only 4 games so i might have just been unlucky) that happens really often in games. if it makes you feel better i have also experienced worst's uncooperativeness first hand. it super frustrating when you don't know how to go around it.

[Scioness Sajj]

I tried discussing reads with you - I asked you some questions, I tried engaging you about the game - but instead of talking with me about things you responded sort of curtly and soon after you voted me. Alright, great. We didn't get very far. We didn't reach any sort of understanding about anything. No discussion. Just me engaging you, trying to discuss stuff, and then you voting me after barely putting any effort into discussing anything with me. It feels like I'm trying to figure things out, trying to engage with players, asking them why I'm wrong about things, but for some reason it's not going anywhere. Not much I can do about that. There's only so much a single player can do.

That's fairly good point. Well, the first part. Rolling dice post was a joke, i assumed that should have been obvious, i'm sorry that it upset you, but few post before i have mentioned that i wasn't caught up and was only shitposting in the meantime. I have explained that I also said I would get back to you with more serious stuff but I forgot I promised that and you didn't remind so here we are.

I voted you most likely because:
a) it felt like a good time to vote
b) you've said something that just got a reaction from me like that
c) i never stopped scumreading you really
It was either one, two or all three of those, i don't remember.

I don't really feel like discussing stuff with you when I feel like you have shown me enough. (tbh with you, i have been engaging some with you d1 and you have backed off) (and to be fair simply asking about reads isn't really engaging; i believe my curtly responses left enough space to engage further)

Asking people were you are wrong is like assuming that you are wrong, idk.

[Scioness Sajj]

It's the same thing with the worst. I try interacting with the worst but he refuses to answer any of my questions or discuss the things I want to discuss with him - how am I supposed to react to that?

Let it go? Town should but won't always works together, you can't force people to play like you'd want them to. No answer is also an answer, thought I don't think that's a good strategy.
I think you have only asked him about the townread and some explanation about you. i have tired to solve the former for you but you abandoned the idea.

I tell him that it's making me paranoid about his alignment and ask him kindly to interact with me so that he can help me townread him and we can work on refining reads - he continues to ignore me. I'm doing my best not to let my paranoia get the best of me but when I'm confronted with a choice between suspecting perpetual lurkers or the guy who posts more than anyone else but doens't seem to actually be saying much plus can't even spend a second to explain one of his reads to me or to engage with me about the game, what am I supposed to do? I scumread that player because I find what he's doing pro-scum in effect.

yeah what you talk about is perhaps antitown. but you can keep lurkers and hm in his poe. like i'm not really sure what do you expect me here to say to you. i see you are trying to talk with other people about him and i think that's the way to go.

[Scioness Sajj]

I point out something in Random's posts that were pinging me, his reaction to Nico - but instead of walking me through his thorugh process he immediatley gets defensive and calls my post a "misrep." Okay, great. Now he's calling me scum and saying all my stances are random when they're not. What am I supposed to do on that front? Townread the guy? I think it'd be weird if I weren't concerned about the way he responded to me. I reread his posts trying to figure out what I can, trying to see if there's any hints of town, but all I'm seeing is scum - so I try talking with my townreads about him (e.g. Nancy) because I'm trying to figure shit out and to get input from others. But apparently that's me "clinging" to a scumread. Okay...

well, i have talked to you about Random misrep thing. it doesn't seem to have any impact on you, that's why i think you are clinging. i think something very similar is also random's reasoning but don't quote me on that.
it also feels like that with your read on my slot.

[Scioness Sajj]

why is someone town reading me such a big deal

i don't think anybody in this game justified their reads on me

It matters because scum tend to throw townreads out without thinking about whether it's merited - usually when they know a player is town or when they're trying to manipulate townies into reading their partner as town - and then when they're questioned about it they struggle to explain the read because it never had any basis in the actual game.

Nancy had reasons to townread you when questioned, so yeah, comparing Nancy to the worst, Nancy's town, the worst is blah.

do you think knowing why the worst is town reading me will clear both of us?

[Scioness Sajj]

and by that i mean obv town status till death do us part.

[Scioness Sajj]

Mod v/la for the weekend

(i may be around or disappear completly, we will see)

[Scioness Sajj]

so all of the scum are probably in



Scioness Sajj
Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly)
TPFKAP
Princess of Renais
Creature
WhemeStar
ArcAngel9
Joral

where did my townread go

[Scioness Sajj]

where did my

townread

townlean go

[Scioness Sajj]

i'm only gonna have like 5 scumreads max at any one time, my arrogant scum PoE pool will include some weaker townreads

You feel better about random then me?

(sort of ignoring everything else today, sorry)

[Scioness Sajj]

I don't think we are in a hammer range but
UNVOTE:

I will be here later today or tomorrow.

p.edit shoshin has recently registered so all her games are new

[Scioness Sajj]

Please put your vote back on.

I wanna see what GiF was alluding to. It would help sort GiF. Based on the vote count from the mod it is unlikely a lynch is falling anywhere else.

That post gave me a light scum ping.

Are you under Reaper influence?

I'd prefer to see Chickadee get to the thread before we move forward. My unvote has nothing to do with who's waggoned.
No clue what Reaper influence is, sorry.

[Scioness Sajj]

Town

[Scioness Sajj]

wheme, how do you feel about replacements?

[Scioness Sajj]

Re: Nancy - go back and look at how I came to townread Nancy - it was back when she wasn't obt town to anyone.

your point? do you expect to be townread because you have townread somebody? you have started interacting with her because she was considering you to be scum.

Re: convincing Nancy you're scum - I'd never try convincing anyone of something unless I had a pretty high degree of certainty about it - in particular because I like people to form their own views without my influence because that makes it more likely for them to catch things I'm missing plus it makes it more easy for me to read them - towns already struggle enough to avoid confirmation biasing and I hate adding to that unless I'm really sure about what I'm saying (e.g. with Random).

You have put your vote on me, you were surprised that Taly didn't get your vote, was that all for lols? Meh, what you wrote there is true if you didn't really scumread me at that time but in your next replay you said you did so I'm lost.
If you don't want to influence people you shouldn't post itt. I'm pretty sure people are more likely to get influenced indirectly than directly. I get why you wouldn't want to do that if you were already townreading Nancy but it happened before.

Re: interactions and hostility - I'm new to this site but I can tell you the town meta here is very weak compared with others in large part because towns don't work together - if people stopped trying to be the lone hero and instead put some faith in the collective intelligence of town, we'd get a lot more done.

Problems don't solve itself, if you are not trying to solve the problem then you are a part of it.

It's good to know you're new - that would explain why you're paranoid about me - the experienced players (particularly Reality) should know better.

Never said I'm new?

[Scioness Sajj]

Wheme can tyou explain Random/Shoshin scum-scum?

Idk maybe randoms town

Maybe Radiant Cowbells is town.

your point?

[Scioness Sajj]

Hmmmmm clearly the moderator is town if you’re asking my point.

don't be obnoxious

i asked because i couldn't tell if you are picking up on him for lack of content or because you understood randoms as random people and not radomidegt's

[Scioness Sajj]

was i really hostile?

[Scioness Sajj]

serious question btw

[Scioness Sajj]

not agreeing with somebody =/= being hostile

[Scioness Sajj]

Shoshin what the hell is your problem

[Scioness Sajj]

tina bring me the axe

[Scioness Sajj]

i think i'm starting to townread shoshin

and i hate the feeling

but i will go back to answering first

[Scioness Sajj]

I didn't abandon the idea of speaking with the worst - I made a post directed at him about you based on what you said and he didn't reply. You think I need to be more specific? I want to know why he townread you back in the earlier part of the game when I scumread you - and I want to know what he thinks of your play since then. I can't get more specific than that. He's the one who townread you...

Well he did said that he would elaborate if you've brought up some things, I have brought it up. I don't know why you keep ignoring that part of his post. You were scumreading me, unless you 'forgot', I don't think you should have any problems elaborating on it.

Spoiler: worst's post

the worst, I've been asking you about Sajj since D1 and even voted you because of that, so stop playing dumb. If you're town, you're needlessly making this game harder by inciting my paranoia that you're scum and that's really harmful to the town at this point in the game when we really need to start working together. So, stop dodging my questions about Sajj, explain why you townread Sajj earlier in the game, and tell us your current thoughts on Sajj.

I've made it clear I'm not elaborating on Sajj for now so settle down? I couldn't d1 anyway bc Underground and I'm focusing on other things right now

If you wanna start a conversation on her throw some thoughts at me but I'm not in the mood to answer questions I don't wanna answer

I dropped my read on your slot, in case you didn't notice.

If by dropping you meant this:

Scioness Sajj - null, because even though there's hints of scum, Nancy says she's town and

I'm willing to suspend my read for the moment

- as I mentioned earlier, I felt like she was pushing me with a tone of conviction but didn't actually have any conviction behind it, so the push felt fake - and since then she hasn't done anything to make me feel better about her alignment. I tried starting a discussion with her, as a way to get a better sense of her alignment as well as to refine my own reads on Random/Reality, but her answers were boring, so I still don't feel town here - she's mostly just commenting on things without much deeper thinking about the game but at least she's around and posting, so I'm okay trusting Nancy on this

for the moment.

I wouldn't consider it dropping the read.

As for Random, you said that you think I misrepped him. I know for a fact I didn't because the term misrep actually implies a scum intent, which I don't have - as for the facts, it's undeniable that Random was very hostile towards Nico - so there's no misrep. I understand that you don't think the hostility was scummy but I strongly disagree. The hostility was formed on D1 but it shoudln't have contineud into D2 the way it did.

You are dodging by bringing up semantics.

Randomidget said you were misrepping him, you have accepted that word/narrative I have followed on it and as I'm scumreading you it shouldn't be a surprise I'm using it.
You have asked if somebody agrees with that, and know you are backtracking. At first, your point was that Random is hostile because we are getting confirmed townies but now your point is that he was hostile towards her D1 and he shouldn't be hostile towards her d2. It looks like you are making it up just to keep the scumread.

I will ask though - why should he stop being hostile towards Nico over the night?

[Scioness Sajj]

Yeah, I've come around on Sajj. The fact that she read Reality's post 4 times trying to understand the progression point should clear her - scum don't do that sort of thing, and I don't think she's experienced enough to fake that sort of post.

To fake what kind of post? To lie that I have read something over when I didn't? I don't think there is anything hard in pulling out a newbie card.

That's pretty bad reason to townread somebody.

[Scioness Sajj]

she wasn't confirmed d1 and she wasn't exactly clear enough early when she was revealing.

it's beginning of d2 is you are curious.

[Scioness Sajj]

oh wow, took me good 4 rereads to figure out the progression thing but i see it now.

Explain it to me.

it's not natural to first vote somebody and switch the vote immediately to a person disagreeing with it and put such weak reasoning as you did.

[Scioness Sajj]

sadly

[Scioness Sajj]

never said creature wasn't the lynch

[Scioness Sajj]

I never said you should townread me because I townread Nancy. No idea where you got that impression, nor do I understand your hostility towards me. To be clear, you said that I only interacted with people up until the point where I could get a scumread on them; I pointed you to my interaction with Nancy as a direct counterexample of your claim. The point was to show that you were mischaracterizing my play, which you seem to be doing yet again. Why do you keep doing that?

I got it from what you wrote because I thought your answer was missing my original point. You can disregard this because i have misread that.
Your counterargument is only a counterargument to how I have worded that imo. I think you have done that to Radnom, me and worst. So you have done that three times and didn't once.

[Scioness Sajj]

you can start now

[Scioness Sajj]

Surprised that Taly didn't get my vote? I have no clue what you're talking about. I didn't vote you for lols, I scumread you. But just because I scumread you doesn't mean I had absolute certainty that you were scum, nor does it mean that I wasn't open to reading you as town upon further reflection or on the basis of new information. That's why I wanted to talk to the worst about you (he townread you and I thought maybe he saw things I missed), and it's why I asked Nancy about you (she townread you and I thought maybe she saw things I missed). My objective was to figure out your alignment, not to convince someone you were scum.

I was referring to this post

What don't you follow? I explained the vote on Reality but it's obvious nobody wants to pressure them so I'm voting my other suspect. What's confusing about the vote on Sajj? She posts lots of meaningless commentary and doesn't commit to anything.

you don't have to be certain. i don't think it's crazy of me to assume that if you are voting somebody you can also bring up why you think they are scum. why couldn't you figure out my alignment by talking to me? i was engaging you before i was sent to the underground but you weren't interested.

[Scioness Sajj]

Yeah, what do you think I've been trying to do?

I thought you said you only played a couple games of mafia but I guess I was wrong. How many games of mafia have you played? How experieneced are you?

I don't understand where the hostility in your posting comes from. Please explain.

like i have said before i don't think you have been trying to do those things. im thinking mostly d1 and beginning on d2.
your assumption was right, i don't understand why would you argue about it though.

don't know. don't remember myself being upset/hostile but i guess you know better

[Scioness Sajj]

i think that's all that i have missed or wanted to answer.

[Scioness Sajj]

get back to me when you will start reading posts

[Scioness Sajj]

Sajj, I didn't say you were upset. I said you were hostile, which given your continued scumread, seems I was right.

I don't understand why that's so important. Also I'm pretty sure I'm being hostile towards the guy but I don't scumread him so... What do you make of that?

I have explained why your explanation wasn't exactly compelling to me.

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: creature

[Scioness Sajj]

l-1 iirc

[Scioness Sajj]

guys...

[Scioness Sajj]

meh not the worst turn of events i guess

you are both terrible though

[Scioness Sajj]

aa9 seems like an okay lynch
don't see a reason in talking about vig unless you want them to claim

what are we gonna do about taly

[Scioness Sajj]

i'm not talking with you like that
i have done my job d1 and 2

[Scioness Sajj]

how about you answer the questions you have been stalling on

[Scioness Sajj]

btw i will be unavailable for most if not all of the upcoming week

[Scioness Sajj]

you are not lynching me today

no clue why that question is so important to you, what do you gain from knowing how nks make me

feel

[Scioness Sajj]

first line to the commander

second line to tw

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: aa9

[Scioness Sajj]

my poe is {chickadee, taly, wheme, aa9}

[Scioness Sajj]

hmmmm

will answer d4

[Scioness Sajj]

Chickadee is also an okay lynch.

[Scioness Sajj]

@mod vla untill july 2nd

[Scioness Sajj]

[Scioness Sajj]

i'm extremely tired of this game.

[Scioness Sajj]

if you don't have tunnels for reaction tests and extremely questionable tin foils in your reason, you're probably right

[Scioness Sajj]

actually wanna townread aa9 for 2172 and i will

VOTE: chickadee

[Scioness Sajj]

Meh
It does not look like a fake claim

[Scioness Sajj]

Creature had a good fakeclaim. The worm was helping Sarah but aa9 claimed somebody that's obviously against main character.

[Scioness Sajj]

looks like you do

[Scioness Sajj]

well i didn't write about flavour similarities so

[Scioness Sajj]

I think it’s a combo. On d1, Creature was at L-2 as a result of Sajj’s vote, right before the underground happened. The d2 masquerade ball was intended as WIFOM to misdirect us about Jareth’s true alignment.

why you making things up
i didn't vote creature before underground

[Scioness Sajj]

well i didn't write about flavour similarities so

The worst is obvtown and both yours and Angel’s shade on him for his most recent flavour comments is NAGL.

well i didn't write about flavour similarities so

[Scioness Sajj]

Nancy, I think it was actually wheme that unvoted first.
where did you get that i'm convinced he isn't a player because he is a villian?

iirc Sajj kind of dropped out of the conversation while worst and I were hashing our feelings about mafia and how much we (mainly I) hate it

and what does it tell you?

[Scioness Sajj]

sounds incriminating

[Scioness Sajj]

Nancy, I think it was actually wheme that unvoted first.
where did you get that i'm convinced he isn't a player because he is a villian?

So, you’re convinced that Jareth isn’t a player because he is the villain in Labrynth, so I find that highly unlikely. Hmmm . . .

No, what I meant is that I think it’s highly unlikely that Jareth isn’t a player because he’s a villian in Labrynth. I didn’t mean that you think that. I’m asking you why you don’t think he’s a player, basically.

it looks like a daily event. it's been negative - neutral - negative, if tomorrow's even has neutralish utility then it's a pattern. After underground I expected Anka or TW to die. From the underground message we received it looked like we were there only till the night. If it was mafia doing I'd expect them to know that and kill one of them.

[Scioness Sajj]

sounds incriminating

So, why did you drop out of the underground chat?

i said most of the things i wanted to say at the beginning then Anka started talking about some life-related stuff and i checked out i guess.

[Scioness Sajj]

I think you are confusing something?

taking people away (underground)- negative
neighbourhoods (ball)- neutral
being loved (today)- negative

Of what track was the ball supposed to throw us? Creature lynch? eh, I guess that's possible but if Underground even was picked by the player to happen d1 i'd say that's a waste.

roles are flavor based yes, totally AI? well, we will see.

[Scioness Sajj]

you will get the vc with the eod post

ma and wheme on chick
aa9 on me
rest on aa9

[Scioness Sajj]

Nancy please

[Scioness Sajj]

When the top 3 posters are unable to post or vote and results in a no lynch, I don’t view that as neutral.

never wrote that underground was neutral. that's what i think you were confusing

the rest will have to wait because i'm not pulling out nico

[Scioness Sajj]

Sorry Nancy

[Scioness Sajj]

I don't think I can be more obvious

[Scioness Sajj]

You were supposed to wagon me
what you doing and why

[Scioness Sajj]

Who's this

[Scioness Sajj]

Don't really wanna play with his game when you all play like that tbh

[Scioness Sajj]

Vig ama starting now

[Scioness Sajj]

I didn't target anybody

Next

[Scioness Sajj]

I didn't target anybody

Next

On both nights? Why not?

I have no night 1shooting modifier
As of today oh well, let's say I don't trust my judgment anymore

[Scioness Sajj]

I never said I was blocked?

[Scioness Sajj]

I didn't target anybody

Next

On both nights? Why not?

I have no night 1shooting modifier
As of today oh well, let's say I don't trust my judgment anymore

That was n1

[Scioness Sajj]

Wow seriously

[Scioness Sajj]

Whole d3 I have been pretty aggressivly and awkwardly crumbing

[Scioness Sajj]

Beginning D2 I posted that I dint you use any action previous night

P.edit yeah I'm terrible with crumbs lol

[Scioness Sajj]

Wait

[Scioness Sajj]

well okay so to be clear becuase im sick and my comprehension is really bad today

n1. no kill buz modifier
n2. i was shooting mostly for better poe, with the aa9/nico end of the day i knew nico would be the target (maybe aa9), so we would have nancy and anka to figure stuff out. so the lower but not lowest people. i think my poe was {gif, chick,

taly, wheme

}. was waiting for chick to post anything readable but she didn't really post much, also cs was blocking me hard so i went with gif.
n3. welp nope, screw this.

as of right now i don't have any choices. i feel like at this point in this gamestate i'm neg so.