Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think you mean with 11 votes, it takes 6 to lynch, unless we are lynching Mastina in which case it takes 7 votes? If I understand the rules correctly?

Also, hi everyone!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh but there are 12 people, so 7 votes are needed. Nvm

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ok so anyway, let me give you more of an actual introduction....

The only player I know here is Almost50 who I played with a few months ago. Otherwise the rest of you probably don’t know me and I don’t know you. Personally I don’t view this as a problem because I give 0 shits about meta and any meta-analysis. My reads are always entirely based on the situation and the motivations behind them. In fact it always amuses me to no end when people freely hand out playbooks to the scum team when they openly discuss “behavior X is towny of him and behavior Y is scummy”. So don’t count on me participating in any meta analysis here.

I have a few gut reactions but keep in mind that I didn’t officially inherit this role until late-ish last night and have only had about 2 hours to read up on over 3000 posts. My reads will come eventually. It does also help simply to get involved so I’m hoping to poke my head in a lot during these first few real-life days to get a better sense of you all.

Finally, anime is just an excuse for adults to keep watching cartoons and I don’t know a damn thing about anime. Shoot me.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Can I ask a stupid question? In a game where our roles seem almost impossible to define by a single word, why are we taking a claim such as “miller” at face value?

Likewise, the name fails me, but Andy Samberg guy pretty awkwardly jumped onto this roleclaim at the start also. The facts that 1) he did it at all 2) that he did it very awkwardly seems...suspicious. With such diverse roles, they’re just millers and that’s pretty much it? Maybe there is more discussion on this?

It makes me slightly scumread the first roleclaim and even moreso scumspect the second roleclaim.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I am a miller

VOTE: Dunnstral

oh yeah same btw

Are you claiming miller?

yis

Something here just doesn’t feel right.

YES IM GOING BACK LIKE THREE WEEKS IM CATCHING UP GDI

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ugh fuck me

[SuperfluousNinja]

I was targeted by something last night. Also, I targeted Gamma Emerald with an ability with an unknown, but likely negative, effect; the effect hinted at being worse if Gamma fit certain characteristics, which I'm not going to share, but I believed it could be fatal if they fit those characteristica.

With regards to the kills, I don't actually have any idea which one(s) would have been scum. Severa was likely getting lynched today, and there are two miller claims, and toog let everyone know they died if breathed upon...so yeah. I guess ank was largely townread and active, so most likely scum kill? Thoughts?

@mastina: reevaluate?

-Yukiteru

I don’t know the context of Toog telling everyone this, but if it’s true then it must stand to reason that scum targeted him N2 to get an easy kill. It’s odd because this feels so obvious that I would have heavily suspected him to be scum for trying to say “if you target me, you’ll die!” If anything, my conclusion here would be that any actions happening to townies are more likely to be from town than from scum since a non-killing scum action was likely consumed in an effort to kill Toog.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also

VOTE: Reasonably Psychotic

Mostly because my gut reaction to everything he has said has been that he’s making an effort to take control of the conversation and dictate what ought to be discussed. His approach doesn’t feel as inquisitive and open-minded as I’d expect a town to have.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I was targeted by something last night. Also, I targeted Gamma Emerald with an ability with an unknown, but likely negative, effect; the effect hinted at being worse if Gamma fit certain characteristics, which I'm not going to share, but I believed it could be fatal if they fit those characteristica.

With regards to the kills, I don't actually have any idea which one(s) would have been scum. Severa was likely getting lynched today, and there are two miller claims, and toog let everyone know they died if breathed upon...so yeah. I guess ank was largely townread and active, so most likely scum kill? Thoughts?

@mastina: reevaluate?

-Yukiteru

I don’t know the context of Toog telling everyone this, but if it’s true then it must stand to reason that scum targeted him N2 to get an easy kill. It’s odd because this feels so obvious that I would have heavily suspected him to be scum for trying to say “if you target me,

I’LL

die!” If anything, my conclusion here would be that any actions happening to townies are more likely to be from town than from scum since a non-killing scum action was likely consumed in an effort to kill Toog.

Fixed.

If you’re wondering why I am analyzing what a confirmed town said, it’s because I feel like I’m missing something here. His claim makes no sense without context, so I have to believe that he was trying to possibly bait someone or make some sort of play. Plus I’m curious to know who else had similar thoughts I had....

I guess I will ISO and figure this out, but can someone talk to me about this? What was his reason for revealing something that was clearly just going to get him killed? I tend to think that anyone who was indifferent to his claim could in fact be quite scummy...

[SuperfluousNinja]

There were NUMEROUS people who said they would be targeting toogeloo to ensure they died. It's a fair assumption that scum, if they had a targeting ability, would have targeted Toog; it's also a fair assumption that town also targeted Toog; it's ALSO possible that scum just didn't bother because they knew Mastina/others who said they'd target Toog were town and they could trust them to do it for them.

If someone has a watcher result on Toog last night, it's likely worth sharing to give us another pool to look at, but I wouldn't view it as particularly conclusive.

-Yukiteru

Why would town want him dead? Was he on a lot of scumdars?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also, can someone please make the case against my slot? Do you have anything other than activity level which is IMO a very poor metric of scumminess? I tend to think that scum is always very eager to jump on the low activity slots as easy pickings. I don’t at all underestimate anyone’s ability to play a strong scum game and fool everyone, enough so that it’s too obvious to simply pick on slots like mine.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I want to go back to this whole Toog thing. I need to read up on how this went down, but if I understand this correctly, at some point he freely told everyone that his role is such that if he gets targeted N2, he will die.

I legitimately do not understand why any townie would use a night action on him to kill him. Consider the two scenarios:

If a town player thinks he really is town, then why would this player want to kill town? Furthermore, why would this player want to waste his ability which is almost certainly much more than “Target a player so you can trigger some effect he may have”?

If a town player had any suspicions at all and thought he might NOT be town, then you would have to believe that a scum player, whose primary goal in this game is to stay alive, openly told everyone exactly how to kill him without even needing to lynch him. Furthermore, you would have to trust that there was no twist in killing him by targeting him to kill him, and it ought to be obvious that the only reason a scum would want to be targeted by a night action would be if he had an ability that allowed him to mess up whoever targeted him. In short, if he’s scum, logic would dictate that it’s a trap.

So I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims to be town and targeted him last night, as well as highly suspicious of anyone who thought what happened here was NBD and not worth discussing. I.E. the guy I’m currently voting for.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Actually, that'd be N3

I meant more in the sense that N2 is a bit of a drastic night.

For example, on Night 2 for me, if anyone targets me for any reason, I die. But only on Night 2.

So here is that post.

There were initial reactions of “he must be town if he’s doing this” from Dunnstral, Severa, and ugh I forgot name but she died N2 and is confirmed town. The scenario of him being scum seems much more preposterous so I give credit to Dunnstral for making the right conclusion. He slides up as townie in my book.

Spike / Jet’s reaction was pretty blasé and skeptical which doesn’t feel like a genuine reaction to me. It’s a really awful gambit for scum. Especially on day 2, of a large game! This ought to be obvious for any townie...

[SuperfluousNinja]

Toog claimed n2 pgo in ch5 so he was probably going for wifoming the scum or something

its not really important. Its better that he died as many people scumread him.

~Near

Also..

The guy who thought it was 'NBD' is the one I just quoted, not me? I laid out the background for the situation, and took no position on other than not viewing a watcher pool as conclusive given the many people who had said they were suspicious of toog and would be targeting him.

-Yukiteru

If Mastina is the one that promoted this idea, then yes, that makes me very suspicious of Mastina.

I just think the logic clearly demonstrates that anyone who targeted him would have to be scum and that there is clearly quite a bit to learn here. I didn’t get the impression that you wanted this closer look.

[SuperfluousNinja]

sn focusing on Toog is moot, i agree

~Near

I am not focusing on Toog. I’m focusing on the circumstances surrounding his death.

[SuperfluousNinja]

more than anything else sn; youre arguing town wouldn't target toog because that looks stupid to do.

Given that town do stupid things all the time, its silly to make that assumption and use it as basis for anything

Town won't play like youd want them to.

~Near

Oof. Your counter-argument is that town is stupid? I just perused through Mastina’s ISO who was apparently a leading proponent of targeting him at night. Mastina is clearly not at all stupid...Mastina has been one of the biggest and most detailed contributors to this game. It cannot both be true that Mastina is stupid and that your angle here is legitimate.

[SuperfluousNinja]

you misunderstand. People arent stupid, they just do stupid stuff because they think they're smart and theyve solved everything

Their actions are stupid, not themselves

~Near

This is not at all a convincing argument.

VOTE: Near x Mello

[SuperfluousNinja]

So, singletonking was in the channel Torque and I did; the reason he died is that he targeted Severa, and per singleton's PM, that means Severa's death killed singleton.
I among others targeted Toogeloo, explaining that death.

Sure, and in doing so, you wasted your supposed town ability, as did anyone else who followed your lead. Well played.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself? Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?

[SuperfluousNinja]

that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through

Scumchat's a thing.
Even if daychat isn't.
SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night.
And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat.
Or, heck.
If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to.
It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.

SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.

Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes.
SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.

This is basically pure WIFOM. If you come up with actual evidence and feel like actually talking to me rather than doing a hit and run like this, do let me know. And don’t forget to answer my questions to you also.

You know another reason why people jump onto wagons is because a player is actually guilty and multiple people figure that out. See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

[SuperfluousNinja]

you misunderstand. People arent stupid, they just do stupid stuff because they think they're smart and theyve solved everything

Their actions are stupid, not themselves

~Near

This is not at all a convincing argument.

VOTE: Near x Mello

I feel like this is scum theater lmao

Why does the argument not being convincing mean near x mello is scum tho

Because he is trying to undermine what I find to be a good and constructive angle of investigation.

Plus think about the slippery slope of this line of reasoning, saying that poor decisions can be excused by people simply doing dumb things. There is no limit to which this can be applied. Why did player X do this illogical thing? Cuz people are stupid!

I choose to believe that people know what they are doing. More importantly, given the sheer amount of time in a “day”, I just have a hard time believing that people wouldn’t think hard about one of the most important things they do in this game, that being using their role.

What do you mean with your “scum theater” comment? Who is being scummy? What do you find scummy and why?

[SuperfluousNinja]

See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

Boy oh boy you picked the wrong term to use, fella.

Wondering if I should drop the bombshell on that term right now or let it fall in suspense for a while.

Suffice to say,

I'm feeling quite smug at the moment in terms of that post.

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Why haven’t you answered my questions yet?

[SuperfluousNinja]

So, singletonking was in the channel Torque and I did; the reason he died is that he targeted Severa, and per singleton's PM, that means Severa's death killed singleton.
I among others targeted Toogeloo, explaining that death.

Sure, and in doing so, you wasted your supposed town ability, as did anyone else who followed your lead. Well played.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself? Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?

Please answer.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think the problem with your reasoning is that for scum!toogeloo with this role, the chances of being targeted N2 are much higher if everyone knows about it

SN, really, trust me: town is generally stupid. Or at least does stupid things, pretty consistently. NxM is not wrong about that, and him believing that is a sign of experience and having realistic expectations, not his alignment.

(I CBF to clean this up any better)

If you insist on pushing this angle, then by all means, tell Mastina she made a stupid decision. You can’t just argue about stupidity in a vacuum here. If you actually want to counter the point I’m making, then you need to argue that Mastina made a stupid decision.

So go ahead. Tell her.

And if you’re not willing to tell her, then you need to let this go.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself?

Nope!

Am I supposed to believe that you can't parse the fact that Toogeloo's claim was entirely not-alignment-indicative, thus, irrelevant to people?

I never argued that the statement was alignment-indicative. Please show me where I tried to argue that it was. I’ll be waiting.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.

Does this have any relevance to the game, or are you just being a smartass about terminology? It better fucking not be the latter.

[SuperfluousNinja]

It *IS* a pretty grievous failing on the part of everyone, including myself, to not conclude that Toog made more sense as town than scum because their action guaranteed their lynch on D3 if scum.

I said this word for word

Stop posting

This is rude.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You know what, go ahead and sub me out of this game.

I’ve been pissed all day because of Mastina pointlessly gloating over me apparently misusing an acronym and her taking advantage of that to feel better about herself. I don’t need this shit. This is supposed to be fun and all this game has left me with is a shit ton of stress.

You all have accepted a level of toxicity that I just do not support. I don’t intend on returning.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Like I just want to emphasize how shitty of a move that was on her part. It had nothing to do with the game AT ALL; she just wanted to gloat over something she supposedly held over me. Fuck if I’m going to stick around for that kind of shit.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I very clearly did not attack her character; I attacked her actions, and deservedly so.