Starcraft Mafia: Legacy of the Void [Game Over]

[Alchemist21]

I’m..uhh...I’m...I’m a miller, guys. I know I literally just pulled a miller gambit as scum recently, and I understand that that’s gonna be just Krazy enough for me to try as scum...

But I’m just being honest. I am a miller. That is part of my role...

Role cop clear me or something, haha

I actually believe this.

VOTE: Shiro

It’s been a while.

[Alchemist21]

I’m..uhh...I’m...I’m a miller, guys. I know I literally just pulled a miller gambit as scum recently, and I understand that that’s gonna be just Krazy enough for me to try as scum...

But I’m just being honest. I am a miller. That is part of my role...

Role cop clear me or something, haha

I actually believe this.

VOTE: Shiro

It’s been a while.

I like your Roy Mustang avi. Did you get the Firebat or hellion role?

Thanks! I’m not answering questions about my role though.

[Alchemist21]

Um. Actually, I haven't played or read any previous starcraft games. Is scum faction limited or can you have like protoss/Zerg/Terran all in the scumteam?

Last game had Zergs as the Town faction and scum had Zerg fakeclaims. At least, that’s as best as I remember.

[Alchemist21]

Only played like 2 games of heart of the swarm so I'm not really SC literate.

It’s ok I never played any Starcraft games.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: shadowlesscloud

Scummy entrance.

[Alchemist21]

Hello. I’m sorry you rolled scum.

[Alchemist21]

I don’t know if anyone realized this but my vote on Shadowless was serious.

[Alchemist21]

Yo. Why so shitposty everyone? Like, even though I hate RVS, you guys didn't even really bother with that and just said 97% nonsense.

Vote Shadowless because that’s part of the 3%.

[Alchemist21]

What? I was saying that in the GIM, my usual entrance was replaced by me looking at the discarded cards and being surprised

Oh. So you're scum here?

how does me not being surprised by anything make me scummy though?

I don't know, I'm not sure what the relevance was to your comment on alignment?

Oh, because the scummy "popin" is my usual popin.

Prove it.

[Alchemist21]

I almost feel ignored by cerb but looking at the post count I can see how I might have been drowned out to him.

[Alchemist21]

I almost feel ignored by cerb but looking at the post count I can see how I might have been drowned out to him.

On my earlier read today I saw you had responded to my post, but did forget about it by the time I responded now.

You're welcome to explain the shadowless thing in a way that resonates with me, knowing as you should that gut reads don't actually sway me in any way?

His entrance was cozying up to Vedith while also making a LAMIST statement with the “now I can’t find scum on page 1” bit. I don’t know if you consider tone on the same level as gut but the things mentioned in my previous sentence made his tone seemed forced to me.

[Alchemist21]

Wanna be my mason buddy?

Can I take you up on this offer? We got robbed last time.

[Alchemist21]

Ego post: friendly reminder that Pink Ball is pinturicchio (for A50 and FL)

[Alchemist21]

Spoiler: Analysis of Almost Posts

Yo! Whassup, gangstas?

FTR, I ain't gonna read no rules (and especially not dat one 'bout usin' tags on videos/large photos). Na'ah! Not gonna read any of dat shit, man.

Oh, and I'm also an important man. I've got connections. Ya mess wit me and it's at your own peril. Ya feel me?

Entrance that is relaxed in nature. Has going for him a thug tone I guess, maybe finds this self amusing. Probably does.

Almost, Hydra and Chen are.my top 3 scum reads.
I'm also town locking Alch.
Icon is a null.

Wow. You pegged us all in one go. I guess we'd have to pop you tonight then. Sorry, but you sealed your own fate.

Still relaxed in nature. Not taking the game too serious, his headspace is probably at that point where he knows nothing is at stake so he can make posts like this. Not much here.

I have something to claim already, guys, but I’ll do it in a few pages

What? That you're a cannibal? I mean, it says you won a Hannibal Lecter there, so what else could you have to reveal?

P.S. Creature isn't in this game, so you can't fake masons with hi, alright? But if you really really feel the urge to, you have my permission to fake masons with me. Wanna be my mason buddy?

Friendly reachout to Flavor. Seems to want to stroke his ego. Seeing how Flavor operates, this would definitely work to get him in his good graces. Doubt a buddy would do this with buddy, probably knows he can do this to win him over. Could easily see flavor taking this in easily. Could just be friendly banter, and theres obviously history between the two.

I’m..uhh...I’m...I’m a miller, guys.

Oh, shit! And there I was asking you to be my mason buddy! Hmmm.. oh, well.

Buddying more. Asking to basically town buddy him. He is still in relaxed tone so he can ask this in the way he does so without it being scrutinized so I find the way he approached it to be suspicious given the previous post. I think if he just went about this more directly I would have considered it differently but the way done so allows him to save face for denial. Am I overthinking this? Not even sure of my profile on Almost.

Vedith-Flavor-RCE-Alchemist town block.

Who else can we throw in there? Not Liger, I think Liger’s probably scum.

A50? I’d be down for that

This guy is TOWN.

Wow FL reading my mind.

This guy is town too.

I'll accept Alch in my town block, but Vedith needs to apologize.

\o/

Yeah he is just sheeping empty reads that Flavor gave. Then just gives out blanket reads himself. I think he thinks he can go points from others by doing this. Those posts aren't townie or scummy.

If Creature relplaces In, though, I’ll have to switch it

People always talkin' 'bout
Your reputation
I don't care about your other

girls

masons
Just be good to me (oh, oh, oh)

Friends are always tellin' me
You're a user
I don't care what you do to them
Just be good to me (oh, oh, oh)

What am I reading.

VOTE: shadowlesscloud

Scummy entrance.

I concur, tbh. Those broken tags somehow don't belong here.

VOTE: shadowlesscloud

Sheeping.

Before being evil and after being evil?

Before being shot in the face and after

A-ha! So you're probably a Judas! I mean, could also be Traitor but I dunno why the Traitor would change their flavour.

I need to stop reading his jokes.

I have early town reads on RCE, Vedith, PPG, Alchemist, and Cerberus.

Early scum reads on Liger and Shadow.

I'm of two minds now. I feel pretty good that we have almost identical reads, but -at the same time- suspect that's a sign we might be wrong.

This might be the best reason for me being wrong on this. Or maybe he is hedging his bets in a scum way? I don't want to tunnel to much into my theory but I can see more good reasons this is a town post but still almost the rest of the ISO is weak.

I think I can guess what Flavor Leaf does for living.
Musician/Actor

I want to take bets on that

What are you talking about? I mean, he's an artist alright.. just not that kind of artist. In the last game I modded him he tried to devour someone then ditch their buddy in an acid container!! THAT is his art.

Bad joke combined with kissing up to Flavor. Why? Are scum this obvious these days or is he just in love with Flavor?

Also, Almost, you’re gonna get us both night killed by how scummy you’re playing that you’re just gonna be conf town because no scum plays that way.

Well, I prefer to be NK'd that be promoted as confirmed scum because I don't have oomph, don't you??

OK.. DISREGARD THAT. Let's get lynched instead.

HMhmhmhm

This was a lot of words just to say you’re not sure about A50.

[Alchemist21]

I’d also like to point out that I say ‘Haha’ and not ‘Lol’ generally. You can decide if that has any relevance.

VOTE: Liger

This was weird, I didn’t realize it was serious until about 3/5 the way in.

I think it might be coming from scum.

I don't know of I scum read Liger here.
But I'm all for the pressure with votes on him.

I thought Liger felt off earlier but dismissed it as him trying to joke around with you guys but not quite fitting in. I don’t know where this sudden annoyance with FL came from but that + the overly wordy do-nothing post about A50 has me leaning scum on Liger now.

[Alchemist21]

Didn’t Auro hydra get mislynched in SC 2?

He and Volxen got all the way to 5-p lylo and got quickhammered. We weren’t expecting them to be the lynch either, Mewtaph just voted him and we took it.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE: I think BP is a scummy claim regardless. But it can be tested tomorrow so there are better options probably. Not named Liger preferrably.

Who would you rather switch to if not Liger?

[Alchemist21]

I could wagon chenn.

VOTE: Chennisden

If things go south though I’m going back to Shadowless. Only reason I’m letting them go at all is because Night Actions could resolve them.

[Alchemist21]

I think the vig test RCE proposed only goes bad if he’s a scum Bulletproof and if that happens to be the case an investigative PR could follow up on the slot at a later point.

P-edit: Yes. It’s not the highest confidence read but it’s a Townread.

[Alchemist21]

I think the vig test RCE proposed only goes bad if he’s a scum Bulletproof and if that happens to be the case an investigative PR could follow up on the slot at a later point.

P-edit: Yes. It’s not the highest confidence read but it’s a Townread.

Why do you assume town has a vigilante in this? And why you think town should vigilante a claimed BP over someone else?

Last time Town had some killing power so a vig would be the most likely (iirc there was a vig last time). Either the Bulletproof claim is a scum lie and vig kills scum or it’s true and the vig shot is stopped which might be better than a vig kill on a Town slot.

[Alchemist21]

Ohh you also think investigative can check him. Okay I guess that makes more sense. The whole vigilante thing is just bonkers to me.

That part comes after a vig check though and for a lack of better options.

[Alchemist21]

Agreed then.

[Alchemist21]

Lol our avatar

Press to pay respects.

[Alchemist21]

That formatting is so fucked up but makes it so much better.

[Alchemist21]

We are definitely past rvs wtf.

[Alchemist21]

The cool kids are voting Chennis

- Hydra

Ehhh voting a person who isn't paying attention isn't very appealing right now.

It’s not that he’s not paying attention, he seems to be deliberately skipping over most of the game.

[Alchemist21]

I could wagon chenn.

VOTE: Chennisden

If things go south though I’m going back to Shadowless. Only reason I’m letting them go at all is because Night Actions could resolve them.

I could wagon chenn.

VOTE: Chennisden

If things go south though I’m going back to Shadowless. Only reason I’m letting them go at all is because Night Actions

could

resolve them.

Very doubtful they would though.

I don't know why I am arguing this. I don't townread or scumread shadow.

Hmmm . . . worth mentioning that scum!Performer claimed bp in SC1.

I also really hated Shadowlesscloud’s unexplained discredit on me. How am I being anything like I was in Stellaris here? I clearly do have a grasp of what’s going on in this gamestate. I think him comparing this game with Stellaris, looked like a really suspicious way to discredit my read on him.



~Buttercup, the not buying it

SC2 had a mod-given Bulletproof fakeclaim that got counterclaimed by an actual Town Bulletproof. It’s why I’m willing to go back if things go bad but also willing to let an investigative resolve it.

[Alchemist21]

The cool kids are voting Chennis

- Hydra

Ehhh voting a person who isn't paying attention isn't very appealing right now.

It’s not that he’s not paying attention, he seems to be deliberately skipping over most of the game.

How is that scummy versus lazy?

I’d call it lazy if they skipped everything and said I’m not reading, but they hit random (and minor) posts in between to respond to without commenting on the actual gamestate. It’s like they want to appear active and engaged but are doing a poor job of it.

[Alchemist21]

I MISSED RVS?

You missed a lot.

[Alchemist21]

I keep forgetting U R is in the game. The guy who didn’t even pick up his role PM until 2 days in has left a larger impression on me. That’s not a good sign.

[Alchemist21]

“Please tell me what you look for in my Town game so I can emulate it.”

VOTE: u r a person 2

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE: I think BP is a scummy claim regardless. But it can be tested tomorrow so there are better options probably. Not named Liger preferrably.

Who would you rather switch to if not Liger?

Chenn probably.

Chenn probably.

I could hammer Chen.

chenn is often marked as the go-to mislynch. I haven't seen anything scum-indicative here yet

this usually comes from town urap

What makes you sure he’s not saying that for easy Towncred?

[Alchemist21]

Because he can very easily get away with not saying it

That’s a weak argument for why he wouldn’t do it as scum.

[Alchemist21]

That’s an Earth Pony.

[Alchemist21]

Not that that particular one couldn’t do things even unicorns can’t but still.

[Alchemist21]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... e%20canary

You sure that’s the right expression? Because I don’t see it.

[Alchemist21]

I think alchemist can be read by how coherent/sensible his posts are and whether he's actively scummy or not and in this game he "lacks scum" to me

Check out his ISO in Starcraft 2. I think he was pretty coherent there, and not actively scummy - can you show me the distinction between his posts there versus in this game?

-Bubbles

Yeah I really don't care enough about this game to go read 150 pages of cold meta, "sensible" or "not sensible" requires understanding the gamestate and not just reading an iso, my reads are much better in games that I'm actually in or at least spectating, and I wouldn't be super interested in explaining specific things that I think are meta tells anyway because I also want to win games other than this one, so, basically, no.

I've played with scum alchemist and he was really scummy, his reads just didn't make sense, whereas in this game he's often posted what I was thinking which implies an uninformed perspective, etc.

- TBD

Which game did you play with me? Get a clue? Or maybe it was that mini Normal where I was scum neighborizer? Anyway, the warning against trusting my meta are absolutely on point because SC2 was me playing up my Town meta well enough to fool one of the top 3 people who can read me. I will say another member of the top 3 did still accurately read me but they replaced in after I didn’t have to keep trying as hard and had dropped the act.

[Alchemist21]

Why are so many people not voting anyone? More of y’all need to put a vote somewhere. This kind of gamestate is giving scum room to hide and letting them get away with not committing to any pushes.

[Alchemist21]

I definitely known what you mean. Usually when I get like that I have to either see something I passionately scumread or get into an intense debate.

That said Cerb is scum.

[Alchemist21]

I definitely known what you mean. Usually when I get like that I have to either see something I passionately scumread or get into an intense debate.

That said Cerb is scum.

<3

Is this an attempt to get me to intensely debate something?

Because unfortunately I don't think it would work since I feel like literally everyone who knows me should be scumreading me right now, given that I'm like...so far out of my EVERY GAME range, that I could see scumminess being assumed.

It was.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah some roles could target players next to them in the order. One role could shoot down my interceptors that carried out my nightkill if I had to pass over them to get to my target.

[Alchemist21]

It didn’t.

[Alchemist21]

Well I don’t think it did. Moving might have taken place after role actions. Someone will have to check, I have to go right now.

[Alchemist21]

A50 who’s your most confident scumread right now?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Shiro

I feel like scum is controlling the lynch right now and I hate it.

VOTE: Volxen

I didn't want to do this, but this is better than Shiro rn

I don’t get the progression here.

[Alchemist21]

Why is it better than Shiro, who you were voting before you switched?

[Alchemist21]

Chennisden: The wagons are bad.

Also Chennisden: Volxen is an ok lynch.

[Alchemist21]

Like actually explain how you went from voting Shiro to not wanting to vote Shiro. Who is your ideal wagon if it’s not the current ones.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Chennisden

Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re partners with Shiro.

[Alchemist21]

Eh, fine.

VOTE: Shiro

[Alchemist21]

Hey Bubbles, what does your hydra think of u r a person 2?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Chennisden

[Alchemist21]

whippersnappers explain how the new vote tags work to me

You can use VOTE: or VOTE: for voting and UNVOTE: to unvote.

[Alchemist21]

i think youre town now

youre as annoying as ever

That’s my Buttercup.

Look, Vegeta! It’s a Chiaotzu!

[Alchemist21]

I still think Chen is scum. The reservations I have are the lack of reasoning for most of the votes. Like I feel Cerb was town motivated and

A50 just wants a flip

. If Chen does actually flip town I'd bet scum joined after the Cerb vote not before.

I actually disagree with that. I think scum would be far more likely to join early to middle of the wagon if scum, to get towncred or stay off of it entirely if town. Of course, there’s always exceptions but in general, unless you have a situation with nearly tied wagons, late stragglers are more likely to be town because scum knows it looks bad. I think I read that on MS Wiki but it makes sense generally speaking, if you think about it.

Again, not liking this comment on A50. How is that scummy? Isn’t it townie to not want to no lynch, anywhere but MYLO?

~BC

I guess I’m an exception then because joining a wagon just for a flip is exactly what I did D1 in the game that just ended. Joining a wagon late isn’t scummy but it isn’t Towny either.

[Alchemist21]

Yes, everyone voting you is scum.

[Alchemist21]

FL is winning back my favor actually. I feel bad for Volxen tbh, he gets lynched for the exact same reasons EVERY SINGLE GAME. Could he be scum here? Sure but I've played like 3-4 games with him in a row where he ends up getting lynched for his day 1s. I don't even really townread him here but I've been guilty of it at some point.

So no even if he hard claims mafia roleblocker in not lynching him today. The man just wants to play some mafia.

good to know

this is something scum says about his buddy

I think RCE’s post here could come from either alignment.

[Alchemist21]

Never seen the Alien variant before but I’ve heard of it. Don’t really wanna lynch Volxen, still think you’re a better lynch.

I would probably join a last-minute wagon on person but don’t really want to draw out another claim.

[Alchemist21]

alchemist has basically scumclaimed to me

JK should be used as protective, not investigative, and ik this...

Why are you saying the second line?

[Alchemist21]

Flash lynching me is the dumbest thing any of you could do.

[Alchemist21]

I Townread PPG. I think I have an idea on why Blossom thinks they caught me but they’re wrong.

P-edit: Or maybe I was wrong about what they’re thinking.

[Alchemist21]

wisdom is town

What makes you think so?

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist buddy can I interest you in joining me in my glorious pursuit to lynch scum?

Yes I would be very interested but hold on a little, ok?

[Alchemist21]

lol youre really in touch with this game

I mean i did miss the eod but when did you claim. How the hell did I even miss that. Can u quote?

It was his slot’s previous owner that claimed Bulletproof.

[Alchemist21]

Liger why do you think Wisdom is Town?

[Alchemist21]

Liger why do you think Wisdom is Town?

What did Wisdom just say?
What did I just say?

This isn't hidden information.

I checked him.

Yeah I know what you said but I think you’re lying so what is it really?

[Alchemist21]

Omg if you are town and just not fucking reading the game you are so close to pissing me off

OK ok I didn't temever wisdo was shadow. OK that does explain why WIS wasn't shot not why liger wasn't.

*throws chair at Shiro*

By the way these posts come off as fake anger.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah I know what you said but I think you’re lying so what is it really?

Then vote me and see where that gets you.

Is that a threat? I do so adore threats!

[Alchemist21]

why would liger lie

i very much doubt scum make me conftown when they cant even kill me

Maybe you’re both scum.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah I know what you said but I think you’re lying so what is it really?

Then vote me and see where that gets you.

Is that a threat? I do so adore threats!

No.....its more of like I don't think you could lynch me if you wanted to. Right now I care about what your reads are and why, besides apparently scumreading me, what are your other scumreads and go into why pls

Maybe I wanna lynch you, maybe I don’t.

My reads are going under a certain re-evaluation right now so they’ll come later.

[Alchemist21]

It’ll probably be after everyone’s had a chance to post today.

[Alchemist21]

Actually, nevermind the later part. If you’re already claiming a check I’m not gonna get the info I need anyway.

Hardclaim 1-shot Gunsmith

I checked wisdom last night and he has a gun.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Wisdom

[Alchemist21]

As being capable of performing killing actions.

[Alchemist21]

My result PM referred to you by name, not as “your target” but as “wisdom”. So I am certain that I was not redirected and that my check is a 100% guilty on your slot.

[Alchemist21]

Maybe Liger is lying for his buddy.

[Alchemist21]

What does gated mean?

[Alchemist21]

I’m not moving off my guilty. Maybe tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

I really don't think this role thing is gonna help us here. I want some substance not this other business. I want to leave this Wis/Alch/Me on side for a day or two. I think it will sort itself out.

Alchemist, who else are you scumreading?

Well I think you’re lying for Wisdom so you. Unless he flips Godfather and in that case you’re good.

And this whole thing made me forget about u r a person 2 so there’s him.

[Alchemist21]

Okay but how about helping find other scum while you do your vote.

More people gotta post. So far it’s just been wisdom, shiro, you, and me. I did want to wait until everyone posted before claiming my guilty to get some associations going but with your claimed check it just meant everyone could assume wisdom was Town and I’d get nothing out of waiting.

[Alchemist21]

There will be no Beloved Princess, Governor, Jester, Fruit Vendor, Lightning Rod, Redirector, Witches, Serial Killers, Lightning Rods, or Nexuses. Actions that take place during the day, including actions that result in flips, will not cause dayphases to end.

From the OP.

[Alchemist21]

So a Godfather is possible, redirector is not.

[Alchemist21]

Then why would I have left the wagon yesterday? I didn’t leave until it was agreed to investigate shadowless at Night.

[Alchemist21]

Or I might have left when we talked about the vig test.

Either way I’m not a lyncher.

[Alchemist21]

Ah damn. That could be true about shiro. That would explain a lot of shiro’s posts today.

[Alchemist21]

I actually hope wisdom flips Godfather because I don’t want liger to be scum.

P-edit: if he framed you why would he claim a hard Innocent on you? He’d have to be certain you would be investigated and if you were clear to everyone now he’s gotta deal with not being able to lynch you. Doesn’t seem like the best play imo.

[Alchemist21]

Eh. Easiest resolution is lynching the pseudo-guilty that's also a slot that did questionable things in their claim.

Town flip, we lynch alchemist tomorrow barring a gf flip.
Scum flip, we lynch liger tomorrow barring some explanation I can't imagine right now.
VOTE: Wisdom

-Cerb

You’ve got your gf and some other explanation clauses mixed up.

[Alchemist21]

And this whole thing made me forget about u r a person 2 so there’s him

lol you can't be serious that I'm a scum read after EoD1

get lost

Volxen is Town to me.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: alchemist

VOTE: Volxen

VOTE: alchemist

Ok you can be next after Wisdom.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: alchemist

VOTE: Volxen

VOTE: alchemist

Ok you can be next after Wisdom.

Back up why you think this is scummy because it's not and this post was super bad from you

*nods head* Ok.

You don’t like that I have a guilty on wisdom so you’re ramping up your aggression on me hoping that nobody would think scum would be that foolish.

I also have a mild suspicion that with pintu gone you think you can get away with a lot more than otherwise.

[Alchemist21]

This game feels like I am in the twilight zone.

Ask FlavorLeaf what twilight zone games look like. We just got out of a game where he vigged scum and almost everyone thought he could have been scum who shot his own partner.

[Alchemist21]

Eh. When I was scum with pintu he seemed to think you two had a closer connection. Maybe he’s got nothing to do with this act of yours though.

[Alchemist21]

I have a 1-shot Cop clear on u r a person 2

Really expected red there but at least it gets my bad read unstuck.

VOTE: Liger_Zero

[Alchemist21]

Ngl back on D1 I had considered making FL my N2 Cop target just to be on the safe side with him. Glad I didn’t.

[Alchemist21]

By the way if any Town busdriver shenanigans took place with U2 speak now.

I should make the distinction that my result PM for UR referred to him as “your target” and not by name like with wisdom. I’m not going to doubt my clear unless a claim or flip basically says my Cop shot could have been messed with.

[Alchemist21]

I think Shiro is scum too. Wisdom awkwardly hopped off their wagon on D1 to join the chennis wagon.

- Hydra

Shiro’s play with Wisdom and Liger makes me think they can’t be scum with either of them.

[Alchemist21]

By the way if any Town busdriver shenanigans took place with U2 speak now.

I should make the distinction that my result PM for UR referred to him as “your target” and not by name like with wisdom. I’m not going to doubt my clear unless a claim or flip basically says my Cop shot could have been messed with.

You should ask the mod to clarify, the results message shouldn't change like that.

Clarify what exactly? Do you expect the mod to tell me a bus driver messed with me?

[Alchemist21]

I think Shiro is scum too. Wisdom awkwardly hopped off their wagon on D1 to join the chennis wagon.

- Hydra

Shiro’s play with Wisdom and Liger makes me think they can’t be scum with either of them.

Why not?

Shiro’s been pushing Liger so hard all game, even in the face of my guilty, that them being a lyncher is a real possibility. And Shiro’s appeal to wisdom with the belief that Liger was trying to buddy wisdom is never a scum/scum interaction.

[Alchemist21]

By the way if any Town busdriver shenanigans took place with U2 speak now.

I should make the distinction that my result PM for UR referred to him as “your target” and not by name like with wisdom. I’m not going to doubt my clear unless a claim or flip basically says my Cop shot could have been messed with.

You should ask the mod to clarify, the results message shouldn't change like that.

Clarify what exactly? Do you expect the mod to tell me a bus driver messed with me?

Your target...

The mod shouldn't be switching it up from telling you that you visited Wisdom specifically to give you a vague statement about who you visited...

That isn't consistent.

So what? Krazy already said in-thread that different things might get different wordings so we already consistency shouldn’t be expected.

And like I said, this only matters if we get some confirmation such a role as a bus driver really does exist, otherwise there’s no reason for me to doubt my clear.

[Alchemist21]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

What?

Wisdom didn't flip BP scum like I expected him to, he flipped goon.

Claiming BP makes more sense if he can Proof a Bullet somehow. It's not high on the list of attractive claims to start with.

Maybe I'm overestimating shadow by an awful lot.

It’s not impossible that scum claimed BP without having a way to stop the shot. In SC2 we were given a mod-provided BP fakeclaim despite a lack of any kill protection AND the existence of a Town BP. Granted scum had to make their own fakeclaims this time, yeah it’s not a stretch.

So what? Krazy already said in-thread that different things might get different wordings so we already consistency shouldn’t be expected. And like I said, this only matters if we get some confirmation such a role as a bus driver really does exist, otherwise there’s no reason for me to doubt my clear.

Well he was talking about different roles might have different results pms. He wasn't saying you get different responses depending on different people you check. There should be consistency in how YOUR role operates. That doesn't mean every role gets a similar style response.

But your right it doesn't matter barring a buss

Listen to RCE. Different kinds of shots mean different kinds of results.

[Alchemist21]

I have a 1-shot Cop clear on u r a person 2

Really expected red there but at least it gets my bad read unstuck.

VOTE: Liger_Zero

I wouldn't trust your result fir TWO reasons:

1- The Busdriver could've been used on your target
2- URAP could be the one doing the kills, and if you're a Psuchologist you get a clear on that one

Also, Liger is bad lynch today. Even assuming he is scum (refer to my previous post for why he's not) he's not going anywhere. I think we should look for the other scums

I’m not a psychologist, I’m a JOAT with a handful of investigative abilities. The clear on UR is a Cop clear and I was told he is aligned with the Town.

[Alchemist21]

Flavor Leaf has been killed! He was incinerated by the Eyes of Amon!

Oh, look! He's a Mason! *Gasp*
Geez. He was also a Miller. Who would've known?

Also, same killer.

I'll try to rephrase what went on in the PT in a little while, but -for now- I just want to know the lynch pool we agreed on was in URAP/Posp/The Hydra (I have more suspects, but agree to this)

As for Liger he is very very likely Town (haven't read anything today yet). My theory is scum have a BD, who switched Wisdom with Liger himself (or maybe Alch), which give a Cop a clear but gives a GS a fake positive (i.e. Unlucky Wis).

HOWEVER, there's also an Arso out there, and Alch said something like "being able to kill" after he had claimed GS. "Being able to kill" is the result a PSYCHOLOGIST gets, not a GS. If Alch is a Psychologist then scum probably switched Wisdom with the Arsonist and thus they know whom that is.

Og course it is still theoretically possible for Liger to have been scum who misplayed it bad, but I find this ridiculously unlikely given how things went.

Why do y’all think Liger is Town?

[Alchemist21]

I was told he is aligned with the Town.

URAP or "Your Target"?

“Your target”.

Point being that something that messes with the Gunsmith shot probably doesn’t mess with the Cop shot.

[Alchemist21]

The more you keep trying to play the NKA game the less I want to drink that wine.

[Alchemist21]

I don't mind soft claiming to save Chen. I am the even night variant of his role hence I believe them to be town.

If there’s any question about the NK it’s why this role that claimed D1 hasn’t died yet. Are scum really not afraid of losing their NK?

[Alchemist21]

I did. That’s not even a soft, it’s a hardclaim.

[Alchemist21]

Then again, I know Moongrass didn’t use their ability on me so that points to either them being Town or believing I was only 1-shot Gunsmith.

[Alchemist21]

URAP is basically IC right now.

Why is that?

My Cop clear.

[Alchemist21]

It’s a secret hydra.

[Alchemist21]

I do have to say I’m surprised scum didn’t do anything to me last Night as far as I can tell.

[Alchemist21]

I don’t know what went through scum’s head about me.

It would be funny if cerb is scum and scum really do have a lawyer type of role. Would explain a thing or two.

[Alchemist21]

Oh hey mindmeld on cerb.

[Alchemist21]

Where is that loveable little gif poster anyway? We finally get around to a liger lynch and they’re not here. Guess that’s because it’s Saturday.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah. I figured he and RCE would know what I was doing because of that game.

[Alchemist21]

Maybe Liger felt locked into his claim from D1 before wisdom was even in. Or maybe they expected it maybe to go bad for liger but not for Wisdom. Liger’s play was bad regardless of alignment so I’m not going to Town them based on their Cop claim stuff.

[Alchemist21]

Actually, in light of those I don't really get why alchemist21 wouldn't have copped him?

It’s simple really. A red check is ok, but leads to a lynch that was going to happen anyway and ultimately wastes the shot. A green check would make things complicated - I’d have to assume he was telling the truth about something messing with his check but then if I assume something exists to mess with Cop checks then I couldn’t trust the green check anyway.

I fully expected a red check on UR but I could trust a green check there unless the inevitable Liger lynch proved Liger was Town.

[Alchemist21]

The explanation Alch added is irrelevant now, unless he says it's what it says on his role PM.

That is what it says. My Gunsmith checks for the ability to kill.

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist2: In D1, Alchemist implied that he was some kind of investigator role, and by D2 he magically got a scum-read off Wisdom who in fact flipped scum. From my POV, Alchemist is the towniest of towns that have ever towned. And if Alchemist thinks Liger is scum, that’s going to weigh heavily with me unless Cerberus’s post #1897 has merit.

........
you know its not magic, right?

Everything I do is magic.

[Alchemist21]

Liger why do you think Wisdom is Town?

What did Wisdom just say?
What did I just say?

This isn't hidden information.

I checked him.

Liger why do you think Wisdom is Town?

What did Wisdom just say?
What did I just say?

This isn't hidden information.

I checked him.

Yeah I know what you said but I think you’re lying so what is it really?

Yeah I know what you said but I think you’re lying so what is it really?

Then vote me and see where that gets you.

This bit is still hilarious.

I’ve played with Cerb 2 or 3 times and I can understand their lack of involvement. This is the first time I’ve seen them outside of a hydra. Hydra TBD’s low presence is more worrying. This is basically what Pops just said about them but with fewer words.

I think Liger’s flip will still help tell us a lot even if he flips Town. Scum are probably bussing if he’s scum because it’s the obvious outcome of today and resisting the lynch would look bad. If he’s Town, scum are probably actually in the people resisting the lynch, wanting to come in tomorrow with a big fat “I told you so” and some Town cred for correctly reading him.

So yeah, Liger lynch still best lynch and it probably flips scum anyway.

[Alchemist21]

I just remembered a time where almost this exact situation with Liger and me happened to me on another game (Wisdom was scum in that one too) so I can see some room for Liger actually being Town here.

I’ll be half mad half amused if this shit’s happened to me twice.

[Alchemist21]

I wouldn’t have been mad when I thought you were telling the truth about getting a green check on wisdom (and I hoped you were Town because you’re a likeable person). Even now I’d be more mad at the situation and my shit luck for having it happen twice.

There’s no vengeance about this. I still think you’re scum, but I’ll have that Phineas and Ferb 2 nickels meme to post if you’re Town.

[Alchemist21]

Can we expect any posts from you during that period or will you be completely cut off from posting?

[Alchemist21]

Hider is functionally like a Cop though because if you survive your target is Town and if you die they’re scum.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Pops

If A50 and UR both want this then I’m on board too, though I do think Liger’s a better flip and shouldn’t ever live to lylo.

[Alchemist21]

But that’s what makes pops fit nicely into my theory that if Liger’s Town then scum stayed off that wagon.

And yeah it’s kind of a pre-flip associative but we have 3 confTown today and I want to take advantage of our numbers while we can because scum are going to start picking us off one by one.

[Alchemist21]

No.....thats not what we agreed to!

To be fair I also agreed to you investigating Wisdom. Which I knew then I was going to investigate him myself anyway but yeah.

[Alchemist21]

The funny thing is that I almost made a post earlier saying that I would switch to a wagon if A50 and UR agreed to it but it got ninja’d by a post from you saying we should still lynch you anyway so I just didn’t say anything secretly hoping we would still lynch you.

But then they did agree and commit to the pops wagon anyway so here I am.

[Alchemist21]

If I flip town, are you going to lynch Liger the next day anyway?

Probably.

So I really want a good reason to be voting pops and I am not seeing one here.

If he’s Town, yeah we’re back to where we are with you. But there are benefits from his lynch if he’s scum. One, I think it makes you extremely likely to be Town if he flips scum based on my idea of scum avoiding the mislynch. Also if he’s scum he can probably go to endgame, and the best chance of lynching a scum pops is now while we have 3 confTown to push it.

And maybe that’s a dangerous line of thinking but there’s also this - I still strongly believe Shiro and Volxen are Town. If we add you to that list of Townreads and throw in the 3 confTown we have 6 players left in the PoE pool with 3 scum among them. So that’s a 50% chance of hitting scum. I’ll also say I have milder Townreads on Moongrass and RCE, which puts 3 scum in a pool of 4 players if I’m right.

So to me Pops makes a lot of sense as a lynch.

[Alchemist21]

Pops if you were including me in that humility statement, I bent my knee to A50 and U2 because they were in agreement about Liger and you. Just because it doesn’t work in your favor doesn’t mean the humility isn’t there. I find it incredibly scummy that you tried to defuse the wagon on yourself by attacking our credibility and shifting some focus onto Volxen, who everyone knows U2 is heavily scumreading.

[Alchemist21]

Pretty sure hydra and URAP are town.

Why Hydra?

[Alchemist21]

Pretty sure hydra and URAP are town.

Why Hydra?

I've said his posting appears obvious town to me. Each time I read his ISO I don't see any scum intent. I'm absolutely more suspicious of other slots.

What is it you're seeing?

I’m not seeing anything really, they’re just kinda ... there.

[Alchemist21]

Also I am not sure pops flipping scum would clear me? I am really wondering why many people think that. I don't want to argue I am scum, but I don't get how pops flipping scum would clear me.

i don't think people think it will clear you. I think people just think you're town

Pops I don't think you and Liger are TvS and that's not how I interpreted A50/alchemists push on you either. If you flip town it wouldn't incriminate Liger any so that point seems a bit strawmanish.

I think both Alchemist and Almost have pushed the idea that scum flip on pops cleared me. Which I am dubious of but I guess Almost now thinks that town flip on pops also clears me? So I am kind of confused on that.

I said scum pops probably means Town you. Don’t think anyone else ever outright said it but A50 has agreed that scum wrre likely off your wagon if you’re Town.

[Alchemist21]

Alright, today is simple enough at work. Gonna be effective here!

I don't think anyone actually responded to my earlier inquiry as to why any of them(that is, the people who have been the top lynch candidates) were likely town. Just asked for a single *thing* that could be tanglibly pointed to as "Yeah, this makes sense, they're probably town", preferably on the same level as my reasoning for why moongrass is likely town.

So, I’ve already established that there’s been at least one time where a Townie fakeclaimed and then didn’t retract, so Liger’s play is still something that could plausibly come from Town. As scum, Liger must have realized how bad he would look after Wisdom’s flip, but he still didn’t retract until after the actual flip, which at the point he did retract it would make far more sense as scum to maintain they were a Cop and insist something screwed with their result rather than shatter their own credibility and make everyone impulsively want to lynch him for lying. Plus, he’s advocated for his own lynch off the realization of just how bad his play was, and it seemed like he was implying he would self-hammer when he was at L-1 if nobody had anything left to say. Had he been so accepting of his lynch as scum I think he would have just self-hammered anyway, and the posts he made don’t strike me as an appeal to emotion to make us feel sorry about lynching him. His play does make a bit more sense if you assume he was trying to bait the NK on both Nights rather than attempting to clear a buddy then retracting at the worst time to do so.

[Alchemist21]

We need 2 more votes on Pops in less than 24 hours.

[Alchemist21]

Good game everyone.

[Alchemist21]

Heyo everyone

Heyo everyone

And then this scum makes an appearance.

Still dead I legit caught scum off their first post.

Now you’ve got to go a step further and catch scum

before

they make their first post.

[Alchemist21]

Like seriously, it's too easy/dumb for people to get caught because they have purely unsafe claims(like in this case, a mod provided claim that directly overlapped with an existing town role...one that was likely to become confirmed as town via mechanically catching scum).

I mean in Starcraft 2 my mod-provided fakeclaim directly overlapped with a real town role... I think the other issue was that Volxen needed to adjust his roleclaim to be n2 or n3+

I will say that town asked for significantly more help with fakeclaims this game than scum did 0.o

That slot in Starcraft 2 got lynched after the counterclaim too. And then a lot of people said it was scum’s fault for not coming up with a better claim. Scumteam’s success in that game wasn’t really due to our provided claims.

But yeah overlap is generally bad unless it’s something like 5 Millers where it’s to the point that it’s NAI to have multiple.

[Alchemist21]

Actually considering both games, scum should just never try to fakeclaim Bulletproof.