The Mystery Box Of Silver 5: Clash of Cash death grips

[mastina]

Hi.
I'm a town fakeclaimer.

I win if I get everyone in the game to believe my fakeclaim.

Btw I'm a VT.

[mastina]

ego

I knew I shouldn't let them drag me in, now I'm dealing with drugs. What a peasant thing. Someone bring my wine and where are the girls to entertain us? I knew it was a bad idea to come here...
~Aramis

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?

Town.

Btw I'm a VT.

I too am the Vanilla >.>

Town?

Chemist1422, Vengaboys, and Gamma Emerald will indefinitely be unable to post in this thread

The actual fuck is this game mechanic?
VOTE: Chemist does anything?

Scum?

so let me know when RAS makes a vote so I can sheep him ty

Scum.

[mastina]

oh!!! eleventhirty's skitter and irrelephant okay thats a pretty top tier hydra

Sure is but I'll scumread them just to get on the nerves of both heads.

[mastina]

I'm really hoping that there's at least one townie who can tell us useful stuff like

"I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum. -Morality"

Or a third party that's willing to spoonfeed stuff to us in exchange for cooperation

I'm informed that the scumteam has factional information on the nature of the setup not available to the town.

[mastina]

also im dayvigging the next person to talk about the survivor claim

The survivor's my top townread.

[mastina]

Random

VOTE: mastina

[mastina]

Why did I think claiming Survivor on MS was a good idea? This is embarrassing.

I mean.
In general.
mafiascum has a "third party? LOLLYNCHTHIS" attitude.
One which I hard fucking disagree with, mind you, but which exists all the same.
Given that this game is explicitly advertised as being 3p heavy though I'll policy lynch any player who unironically suggests lynching third parties.

[mastina]

Im frankly tempted to place out.

Only scum would be upset at attempted cheating from a town player.

(I'm sorry this is incredibly bad taste.)

[mastina]

ok let me know when mastina arrives in the game

Does a readslist count?

the worst
Old Dogs
The Three Musketeers
Vengaboys
Chemist1422
Gamma Emerald
Voted
NotMySpamAccount
Fuscosco
Wh4t
KidAmn
Toogeloo
ZZZX
Chickadee
ElevenThirty
Vorkuta
YAYVIDEOGAMES

Because you can have a readslist!

[mastina]

What.

Why did I just become a masonizer?

I gained that role, but it wasn't the role I started with.

[mastina]

(I'll read later tonight, don't have time before I leave for work. Butyeah I think that bears mentioning; I was turned into a masonizer even though I started the game as a VT.)

[mastina]

Mod: Sick, so I'll be doing only the bare minimum until recovered.

This game doesn't need my immediate attention, so sorry, but it'll take me a while to get to it. I know I already marked V/LA because I was busy but now said V/LA may last longer than that time.

[mastina]

mastina - I want more information about her readslist. How strong it is.

Scale of 1 to 8, 1.825.

[mastina]

mastina talk to me about your chickadee read? i was townreading her. otherwise we're basically on the same page, maybe vorkuta is closer to null

Standard procedure for entering into a game with Chickadee.

She's actually town tho.

[mastina]

i think i might just sheep ank on mastina

"She's self-resolving".

That's what you're sheeping.

[mastina]

is this meant to be read seriously?

I dunno, what do you think?

[mastina]

Ego because ai forgit this started

Alignment indicative things forgot this thread started?

...That'd explain things.

[mastina]

I will post a readlist once I have enough source material to make one.

Pfft.

Amateur.

I made one, how hard could it be?

[mastina]

because by D3 she has backpedaled everything she says and claims it was all strategic white lies.

It always is tho.

I never tell an outright lie a la Boonskiies style lying, but I do exaggerate the truth when need be.

Here no joke tho. I was a VT, I'm not anymore and my new role's essentially a masonizer.

[mastina]

I'm planning to sit down and actually give this my attention when I get out of work so don't hang about on my part.

Needing to give this game attention is why I'm here now but it may be all for naught.

I have half an hour before I need to go to bed in

theory

, but in practice my lucidity is beginning to fade and I'm not sure I'll be critically analyzing.

As-is, I feel like I'm already missing out on content I'd normally comment on, so while I'm reading I'm not sure I'm processing.

[mastina]

Tfw I thought the prod was for a game which just ended.

[mastina]

I’ve read some articles and apparently people don’t like stream of consciousness posters

Meh fuck'em. Do what you want.

[mastina]

Also reads right now.

zeebu
Chickadee
Old Dogs
Voted
The Three Musketeers
Vengaboys
Chemist1422
NotMySpamAccount/insomnia
Gamma Emerald
Fuscosco
Wh4t
KidAmn
Toogeloo
ZZZX
ElevenThirty
Vorkuta
YAYVIDEOGAMES

[mastina]

My interactions with mastina, on the other hand, generally are much more AI. We have a pretty interesting past on this site, and the way we interact is unique enough that I read her with methods that I don't use with anybody else here.

Would very much like to hear more about your thoughts on our interactions.

[mastina]

i forgot to mention btw but apparently im v popular? lots happened last night but i cant rly comment on it

Can I mention that I masonized you last night since I claimed that D1 at least?

[mastina]

mastina let's talk about chickadee locktown?

I am PRETTY sure that she's town; if you iso her, you might be able to see why I think that.

[mastina]

>Just received another role upgrade.
>Is suddenly suffering from PTSD from MBOS4 where new powers kept on being given to me.

[mastina]

Butyeah.
I just gained ANOTHER new role.

As if the masonizer wasn't enough.

[mastina]

MOD:

I know I'm probably nearing prod range, but

24-48 hour V/LA due to sickness.

Vomited today, sick.

I'll post as soon as I can.

[mastina]

mastina did you fruit us?
~ Pichu

Mayyyyyybe...

alright mastina should claim if she's loyal then?

I think that this would be a bad idea?

[mastina]

Do we all agree {our slot, Old Dogs, YVG} has at least one groupscum, barring 3 mechanical clears? I'm in agreement.
-Irrel

I don't but of the three I'd lynch you hands-down.

[mastina]

no
it was a very odd nightkill
~ Pichu

Not really?

Main reason I didn't target Three Musketeers was because I thought they'd be the nightkill immediately.

[mastina]

(The actual surprise kill was insomnia; didn't see that one coming.)

[mastina]

Yeah why tf is wh4t still alive actually
-Irrel

Because not enough people have voted him.

[mastina]

i dont know what mastina's deal is and she should hardclaim today i think

I hardclaim as "started the game VT, someone changed my role D1, and presumably same someone changed it further D2 with an upgrade" and think that's as much as should be given until day before lylo.

This game with multiple 3p probably doesn't have four scum (18 players isn't enough for four scum + multiple 3ps), so I'd be willing to bet there's only three groupscum this game.

Let's say there's three groupscum and 2-3 3ps who can scumside; that places earlist lylo as 10pish which means the earliest day-before-lylo would be tomorrow, not today.

So, sure, I'll claim tomorrow to be on the safe side. See no point in it today and think it'd be counterproductive.

[mastina]

{us, Old Dogs, YVG, zeebu, toogeloo} on both wagons

And with that grouping I'd say absolute maximum of one scum in that group with a very definitive chance of it being none; scum are in the players not on both wagons: {pisskop, Rhinox, Creature, Wh4t} contains 2-3 scum like 90+% guaranteed here.

[mastina]

{us, Old Dogs, YVG, zeebu, toogeloo} on both wagons

And with that grouping I'd say absolute maximum of one scum in that group with a very definitive chance of it being none; scum are in the players not on both wagons: {pisskop, Rhinox, Creature, Wh4t} contains 2-3 scum like 90+% guaranteed here.

Proof: when towns are eating themselves alive, scum are usually the ones who most let that happen.

I haven't read like most of the game, maybe like...10-20% of it, but those players? Those players are the players I would most expect to have let that happen, whereas the players who're the power-player trifecta (Old Dogs, 11:30, Yayvideogames) plus the survivor-claim-slots are the slots that I would least expect to be scum in the gamestate where town is eating itself alive.

To be honest the largest surprise here is that this is *me* saying this, and not Ank; normally she'd be the one telling ME this and *I* would be the powertown player tunneling the fuck out of another powertown player.

[mastina]

(Basically--I'm not saying that Old Dogs, 11:30, and Yayvideogames are

all

town. I could see there being one active scum in the game; I could see there being a power-player that is scum, arguing with the other power players that are town. But I just really REALLY think our best chance at lynching scum is to lynch outside of those three. So I'd vote any of pisskop/Rhinox/Creature/Wh4t and I feel like that grouping has a 50-75% chance at landing on scum which is far far far far FAR better than the ~17% max chance of the power players containing scum.)

[mastina]

And no, insomnia was hellatown.

Says the person who very well might've nightkilled him.

[mastina]

mastina needs to actually play, yes. I was hoping she would play last gameday
-Irrel

Then you shouldn't have hammered one of my major townreads early on while I was busy.

(Though, I have to admit, I was wrong. My main reason for townreading Chickadee was erroneously believing that she was the one who gave me my powers; play-wise I was suspicious of her. So I was right, but for the wrong reasons. BUT I DIGRESS.)

[mastina]

we dont even know what the mystery box of silver can possibly be since no one is taking mastina's claim seriously

I feel like town would be utterly fucked if all we had were the powers gifted to me. We need a whole shitload more than that especially given 3ps in this game.

Even MBOS4 had town have a Neapolitan rather than 7 VTs, and the roles given out were all ridiculously strong; tracker, doctor, and rolestopper in a micro and with a semi-clearing mechanic where scum could only put one scum in the three and with the game going nightless on D4. That was a shitload of town power that game; this game we've got only my role and while I think my role's useful it aint gamebreakingly strong. It helps, but it can't be

all

we've got.

Still tho.

Setup spec's probably best left until after a massclaim and a massclaim is probably best done day before lylo which the earliest I could see is tomorrow.

[mastina]

We had previously been vt but it changed, like mastina claimed happened to her

My changes happened mid-day on both D1 and D2 tho.

My guess, different sources.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if scum are the ones gifting to me and you got a gift from either 3p or town.

Could be vice-versa of course.

I'm like 98% sure your gift and my gifts originate from different sources; I'm only about 50% sure they're different alignments (could both be town, but different town; could both be 3p, but different 3p; could be town and 3p; could be scum and town; could be scum and 3p; none of these are more likely to me than the other) and 0% sure which alignment is which. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that your gift and my gifts aren't

both

from the scumteam since I don't think schadd forces scum to gift out two different types of gifts with different mechanics.

[mastina]

skitter and I have agreed to also reiterate about our role for clarity that our role only works if we are targeted by something other than a killing action, which is why we asked to be targeted by the fruit vendor. Mastina I'm very curious why you fruit vended YVG
-Irrel

This would've been helpful for me to see before the end of the day but as I haven't read most of the game I didn't see it yesterday; my bad.

I can remedy that tonight; I'll clarify that I currently possess more than one power and can use both the same night. (This was the upgrade I got D2; on D1 I only had one power but received a second power D2 and the mod said, quoting the "everyone is multitasking" post, that yes I could in fact use both and I did, but neither of my N2 targets were 11:30; one of my N2 targets was Yayvideogames; my N1 target was Old Dogs.)

So tonight, I'll use one of my powers on you now that I've seen this.

[mastina]

maybe my reads really weren't that far off and it's just among

creature/pisskop/rhinox

/voted/

wh4t

Sure seems that way!

[mastina]

I'd be very interested in hearing mastina's thoughts on me this game

There are aspects of your towngame which I'm not really seeing as much as I'd prefer; there are aspects of what I'd expect you to be doing as scum...

...But in spite of that?

Pretty sure that you're town here anyway in spite of the original paranoia I had on you, so.

[mastina]

-mastina being this quiet is extremely uncharacteristic of her.

It's really really not especially when you fucking quicklynch when I'm busy/V/LA.

[mastina]

Also, four flipped Vanilla Townies suggests a very power-lite game, so I do raise an eyebrow at anyone who has suggested they have a night action.

I do, but only because someone made me have it; I

started

the game as a VT.

MBOS games are, almost exclusively, VTs, with power roles coming from external sources usually including at least one scum source.

That doesn't mean this game is "all VTs, 3ps, and scum"; there

can

be town PRs in MBOS games. MBOS4 had a Neapolitan for instance. But it does mean most players are gonna claim VT or 3p here, or in the case of players who received power roles, started-VT-but-now-am-not-VT.

[mastina]

Thus a toog lynch is advisable.

I'd lynch a person trying to advocate a lynch of Toog.

[mastina]

I dont think Rhinox scumreads then kills them unless he thinks that lynch never happens.

That lynch was never happening tho, so.

[mastina]

Unfortunately I townslipped so you can believe I faked it but there's no reason to fake because I'm not under any serious pressure atm. *shakes head* either you suck or you're scum. I'll do you the favour of believing it's the latter.

If there's votes on this slot when I'm caught up.

I'm voting here.

[mastina]

I'm saying that a creature scumflip gives much less info than an eleventhirty scumflip
~ Pichu

Fuck lynching a player who has a significantly higher chance of being town "for information" over lynching a player that's just outright scum.

If it were D1 maybe, but here on D3 approaching lylo territory we lynch for the guaranteed scum first. Doesn't matter if the lynched scum gives us no info, we need dead scum right now more than we need information.

[mastina]

i mean if you could help sort the me/yay/1130 dilemma that would help and thats what you being loyal would ultimately do

I can help sort the three-power-player dilemma without roles.

You're most likely all town; if there's scum there reads-wise I'd be most inclined to think 11:30 but that was an age-old read that I have since grown to think was wrong for me to have held in the first place and my natural inclination is to think all three of you are town.

I'd lynch any of {Wh4t, Rhinox, Creature, pisskop} first. Probably in the order of Creature > Wh4t > Rhinox > pisskop though I would listen to cases on why players lower should come first and would be all to happy to sheep a wagon on any of them.

[mastina]

uh who were you expecting then bc i was fully expecting insomnia but hoping for myself

Good 75-85% chance you, remaining percentage Voted. Didn't honestly see why literally anyone else would die. Yayvideogames was too widely scumread and nobody else is a power player/widely townread.

[mastina]

mastina
I've been going insane this entire game
~ Pichu

Yes but normally you're not the one engaging in "effectively a 1v1" with a power-town player; that's normally MY domain.

[mastina]

pedit: i mean yeah i agree mastina, let's get creature

Sure.

VOTE: Creature

[mastina]

uhhhh are you saying that your role got change day2 too?

>Just received another role upgrade.
>Is suddenly suffering from PTSD from MBOS4 where new powers kept on being given to me.

Butyeah.
I just gained ANOTHER new role.

As if the masonizer wasn't enough.

^

[mastina]

this is like the most reasonable thing anyone's said tonight

You know things have gone horribly, HORRIBLY awry if of all people it's MASTINA saying the reasonable things.

[mastina]

if mastina says im townreading wh4t for bad reasons i'll give it a second thought bc i really would rather have a 3rd opinion before i reconsider and i think(??) i trust her here to read wh4t.

I've not played with Wh4t often enough to read the slot reliably from meta. (I'm pretty sure we have played together but fucked if I'd know the games by memory.)

I won't say that I think there's reason to scumreat Wh4t. I haven't liked any of the posts I've seen from Wh4t, but that doesn't make Wh4t scum in of itself. It does, however, mean that I don't see any reason to townread Wh4t. I wasn't really convinced by your towncase. That doesn't make the townread wrong/for bad reasons, it just means it doesn't really sway me from putting Wh4t in the POE for scum.

Wh4t's a POE lynch which I think has a 75%ish chance of flipping scum. Maybe-town, but still one of our best shots at scum. Creature's probably the BEST shot at hitting scum tho.

Wh4t's a 75%-POE-scumread; Creature's

not only

a 75%-POE-scumread but also like 75%-scum-meta-Creature, so when you add those up he's a good solid 98% scum, so.

[mastina]

mastina can you target 1130 or is there a really bad reason not to, considering they said they needed to be targetted?

I can target them and have no reason not to. Just needed to know they needed to be targeted, which I didn't N2.

[mastina]

im pretty sure mastina just thinks scum gave her hers because of mbos mechanics but then again yeah it would be weird of her to assume it's from different people

The timing of the roles is different + having two in the same day = the roles originate from different sources.

11:30's happened at the end of the day; mine both happened in the middle of the day; my second one (which was formatted identically to the first one and timed similarly to the first one which is why I suspect the same source caused both my role changes) happened the same day that 11:30's happened, sooooo. Seems pretty definitive that they're not from the same source.

Mine probably come from the same source, but 11:30's comes from a different source than mine.

[mastina]

the first game i was explicitly told that scum (mastina!) gave me the role
i'm p sure that happened in the 2nd too
i don't remember 3rd and 4th offhand
we were not told the source here

It happened in the fourth, too, but can confirm; schadd_ did not tell me the source of my powers. Just that I became {role}, and then that in addition to {role}, I now had the power of {second role}.

[mastina]

mastina do you really think creature is not playing to his scum meta here
like... he's been online in the past 2 days and isnt posting here
he willingly replaced into the game and has done absolutely nothing? surely?

Oh he's scum here pretty definitively, yeah.

[mastina]

fine
VOTE: creature
i would like to reiterate for the record that i do not believe that wh4t is town

We can visit that tomorrow. Creature today, we figure out which of {Rhinox, Wh4t, pisskop} we want lynched tomorrow.

[mastina]

MOD: Internet is down, can't post reliably. Be back when the internet is.

[mastina]

mastina claim first so we don't waste our time with a bunch of bullshit? please tell me you're loyal?

-pikachu

While I softed as much, wish I was, and the game would be won if I was, sadly, no.

I was given a Loud Fruit Vend power D1; Old Dogs was N1, you N2, 11:30 N3. I was given a Visitor power D2; Voted was both N2 and N3. N3, I was gifted an X-shot Vig; I shot Wh4t.

Given that this is almost certainly lylo, 3 scum are alive.

I think that we can all agree, it's not YAYVIDEOGAMES/11:30/ANYTHIRDMEMBER and that there is a MAXIMUM of one scum there.

However, we can also determine that there's a maximum of two scum in Rhinox/pisskop, but also a minimum of one, almost definitively.

The only scumteams not including one of them would be Auto/Toogeloo/Yay, or Auro/Toogeloo/11:30; can we all agree that those two combos are unlikely?

Which would leave EITHER:
Rhinox/pisskop/hydra,
Rhinox/pisskop/Toogeloo,
OR:
Hydra/Toogeloo/oneofRhinoxpisskop.

Can we all agree that one of those five scumteam combos is the final solve?

[mastina]

I'M BEHIND IN EVERYTHING INCLUDING GAMES AND DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO POST TONIGHT BECAUSE I AM WAY WAY WAY TOO BUSY HOW THE FUCK DO I HAVE LITERALLY TWO DOZEN THINGS TO SPEND TIME ON RIGHT NOW

[mastina]

BTW, there's a SLIGHT chance that I go on a date with my girlfriend, in which case, fuck mafiascum, I'm going on a date.
But OTHERWISE. Once I am home from work, I SHOULD have time for this game and will catch up then.

Circa eight hours from now is my estimation.

[mastina]

BTW, there's a SLIGHT chance that I go on a date with my girlfriend, in which case, fuck mafiascum, I'm going on a date.
But OTHERWISE. Once I am home from work, I SHOULD have time for this game and will catch up then.

Circa eight hours from now is my estimation.

…Orrrrr, maybe my fucking shitty ass internet which is SUPPOSED to be among the best could, for the second. Fucking. Time. In three days. Completely fucking fail on me.
Leaving me utterly incapable of catching up.

[mastina]

are you actually scum?

Well...yes?

[mastina]

mastina why did you visit Voted twice?

Well I originally planned to fruit vend them last night and use the visit on 11:30, but I was concerned that there'd be a lack of definitive proof, so. Switched the actions around. I was always planning on visiting Voted tho.

also did you start with multitasking or did you get that gifted at some point?

The first time I received a new role, I asked the mod about it; his response was to quote the OP where he stated "everyone is multitasking". I was however told my loud modifier only applied to the fruit.

[mastina]

idk, mastina is probably the only person on site that I could see not shooting until night 3 as an SK.

Actually it's a bit more complicated than that.

mastina as a straight-up serial killer? Never shoots, mimicking my vig policy of "fuck vigs, I'm not shooting".

mastina as a modified serial killer who can win with the town if achieving an alternative 3P wincon? Say like this one? I shoot every single night because I'm aiming to townside but am not actually a town vig.

That she got a vig shot and used it is frankly surprising, given that she always says she never shoots as vig

I will shoot as a vig--in very specific circumstances. Specifically,
-When the vig shot is incredibly limited/gated,
-And even then only once, to prove that I have it,
-Especially if it was not originally part of my role.

Fulfill 2/3 and I probably will vig; fulfill all three, and I definitely will.

I definitely don't like vigs and will use them sparingly as a player--and if I had an unlimited vig my stance would be "fuck that shit", but given that this was a gated/limited vig that I received during the night, I felt the need to prove that yes I did in fact receive it. (Also there was a very high chance that I'd be the nightkill given everyone was townreading me/seeing me as the voice of reason yesterday so I knew it was then or never.)

[mastina]

When i replaced in i was an ascetic townie.

Yo, Krazy.

Why aren't you taking issues with this claim?

The last time you heard a not-D1-ascetic claim from a replacement in a slot, it was in a schadd_ game...and the person claiming it was scum.
I'd know because said scumbag was me.

You called that ascetic claim scum for what it was; while I maintain you were right for the wrong reasons...you insisted that you were right for the right reasons.

Why isn't Rhinox's ascetic claim a scumclaim to you this game when my ascetic claim was one to you the last schadd game?

my reasoning in shooting zeebu is that it seemed we were heading towards a PL day anyways, and I wanted to remove the suspected survivor claim with the most uncertainty around it.

This is also a scumclaim. zeebu was, by group consensus, considered "not groupscum"--either a survivor, or town.
Toogeloo was, by group consensus, considered "not town"--either a survivor, or scum.

And yes I know Rhinox received his power from an unidentified source that is probably scum--the thing about it is, though, I don't think it's proof he's town. In past games, scum have had a limited/gated ability to gift to scum; this game almost certainly would have similar, where they don't have unlimited ability to gift to scum but aren't forced to 100% clear players with who they gift to.

[mastina]

and also I just stopped playing for a while. thats called life.

I've yet to see this alleged playing.

[mastina]

I claim to know that green eggs are overcooked and green ham is rancid.

This be a scum response.

[mastina]

mastina how were your new roles described. Like "here's an outgrowth/evolution/addition of your previous role" or "now you are also this, no further comment"

D1 I received a PM titled notice from the mod; "you're now a loud fruit vendor".
D2 I received a PM titled notice from the mod; "in addition to your other ability, you're now a visitor. Your loud modifier only applies to your fruit vendor ability."
N3 two hours into the night (not going to quote the exact timestamps, but nightstart message was around 5:30 pm and the ability I received was around 7:45 pm), I received a message, NOT titled 'notice'; it was titled 'well hello again'; "in addition to your other abilities, you're now an (x)-shot vig; you may use this ability concurrently to your other powers".

Each message also described the power but given schadd's brevity (it's hard to paraphrase messages which're so short), I don't want to include that because it'd be getting too close to quoting the whole PM instead of paraphrasing but you should get the idea.

[mastina]

HUNT

Scumhunting-wise, you're as town as town gets; Auro's guttown; I don't have reason to townread him beyond feeling like he is.

11:30's sketchy but not necessarily scum; it's hard to tell.
Toogeloo's lackluster play is sketchy but this is one situation where you literally

require

the mechanical justification. Toogeloo's either a survivor or scum; in either case, he's not town so his play being sketchy is already explained. And it's a bit difficult to tell via scumhunting if he's scum or 3P.'
Rhinox's play is sketchy-as-fuck.
pisskop's play is sketchy-as-fuck.

There's a maximum of three scum in the above four names and I guarantee you I'd lynch one of those four, but I'm not sure which is the best shot at scum. Play-wise I'd put Rhinox and pisskop at the top of the charts I guess, but it's not an absolute thing.

[mastina]

I see no indication that mastina townreads either of us more than the other right now.

I'll admit that there was doubt in my mind about the townness of Yayvideogames as recently as yesterday (gameday).

It's gone now.

I'm still not convinced that one of you must be scum; I still think there's a very realistic chance you're TvT.

But if I am forced to vote one of you, it is in fact you I'd vote given the dilemma.

[mastina]

Still want to know:
Why mastina targeted voted twice

Because I wanted to fruit vend Voted both times but had better Fruit Vend targets in mind both nights, albeit only barely choosing 11:30 over Voted.

Why mastina took her shot

Because it was the right thing to do.
I hate shooting as a vig.
But there are situations where it's literally playing against your wincon to not take the shot. And as strong as my principles are, they're not strong enough where I'm willing to gamethrow to uphold them.

Why rhinox didn't claim ascetic earlier

Because he's scum.

[mastina]

Remind me how you're not ascetic anymore?
-k

I became 1-shot vig. I can ask the mod but it doesn't really matter since idk how I could be checked either way

And I'm like 90% sure Rhinox is bullshitting this now because if he received the same type of PM that I did there would be absolutely 0% ambiguity on his end in KNOWING he was still ascetic.

The message literally fucking tells you that your other abilities remain.

[mastina]

Probably, but I expect his lynch to have no positive impact on the game
I also expect I won't be listened to by anyone by suggesting otherwise
So I'm basically in idontgiveashit land because I know how this game plays out from here
~ Pichu

Hey.
Would it make you feel better if I told you that my preferred lynch isn't Toogeloo?

...Admittedly because my preferred lynch is RHINOX, butstill.

[mastina]

acshully an 1130 lynch sounds decent.

For the record.
At this stage.
Pretty sure pisskop and 11:30 aren't both scum.
Pretty sure that, mechanically, at least one of them must be REGARDLESS of whether Toogeloo's survivor or groupscum.
Pretty sure that, given one of them being scum and the other not being scum.
That Rhinox is scum regardless.
And the only way for Rhinox to not be scum is if there's only two groupscum and Toogeloo's one of them. (No, seriously, that's the only way I can see Rhinox not being groupscum here.)

[mastina]

acshully an 1130 lynch sounds decent.

For the record.
At this stage.
Pretty sure pisskop and 11:30 aren't both scum.
Pretty sure that, mechanically, at least one of them must be REGARDLESS of whether Toogeloo's survivor or groupscum.
Pretty sure that, given one of them being scum and the other not being scum.
That Rhinox is scum regardless.
And the only way for Rhinox to not be scum is if there's only two groupscum and Toogeloo's one of them. (No, seriously, that's the only way I can see Rhinox not being groupscum here.)

To put this into perspective:
YAYVIDEOGAMES is not scum here.
If Auro is town (this is the one and only weak spot to be had in the 'Rhinox is scum regardless' theory)...
...You have four slots remaining:
11:30, pisskop, Rhinox, and Toogeloo. There's a maximum of three scum in them and a minimum of two.
If 11:30 and pisskop cannot be groupscum together (and I am pretty sure that they aren't), then the combinations possible are:
{11:30, Rhinox}
{11:30, Toogeloo} (in which case today's not lylo)
{11:30, Rhinox, Toogeloo}
{pisskop, Rhinox}
{pisskop, Toogeloo} (in which case today's not lylo)
{pisskop, Rhinox, Toogeloo}.

In every instance.
Unless today's not lylo (in which case we have a mislynch to spare anyway).
Rhinox is scum.

It requires one assumption; Auro as town. That's it, because the other two 'assumptions' (Yayvideogames is town; pisskop and 11:30 aren't scumbuddies) I am not budging on because they just aren't wrong.

So,

to everyone who townreads Auro:

if you feel strongly about Auro being town...you should be voting Rhinox here today.

[mastina]

(Mind you: strong evidence for Rhinox being scum with 11:30 is 11:30's defense of Rhinox, but working counter to that is both having claimed to receive powers when I'm pretty sure scum's ability to give out powers to scum--while existing--would be limited.)

[mastina]

We think that toog is the correct lynch today

The issue I have with that is that the game was advertised as being heavy in 3p.
It has had one established 3p mechanic; the three players who left the game in a loss.
It has otherwise not had 3p present at all.

Toogeloo is guaranteed not town, yes.
But I'm not convinced he's groupscum.

I'd prefer to wait until tomorrow at the earliest before considering lynching him.

Lynch one scum--maybe lynch two. If game's not won then, sure, yeah, Toog's groupscum; lynch him then. But today it feels like it'd be a dick move.

It's safe, sure. We can't definitively 100% suffer a guaranteed loss by lynching Toogeloo. We are guaranteed to survive to see tomorrow with his lynch. I just find it not as likely for him to be groupscum here.

[mastina]

Was auro voted? I kinda townread voted a whilr back but he lurked through like two dayphases so the read is kinda stale/gone

I wouldn't call siteflaked-to-be-replaced as "lurked through two dayphases"; I'd call it siteflaked-to-be-replaced.

And yes, Voted was indeed a townread of mine which Auro has continued, but not for any established reason. Just gut.

[mastina]

Oh I thought I was being quickhammered.

To be honest you probably were at risk of exactly that.

Toogeloo's either a survivor or scum. If town gets lynched today, regardless of which, Toogeloo wins.

If Toogeloo is legitimately a survivor he can't win the game instantly by voting town because there's not three groupscum PLUS him as a survivor (if there were, they'd have announced as much), meaning that town has the majority--but he certainly wouldn't care if town handed him the win by voting town.

Toogeloo's vote on you actually serves as more evidence to me that you + pisskop are town.

[mastina]

Other than myself, where would people like me to vote?

Most popular choice wins!

Rhinox.

[mastina]

But didn't you visit voted on 2 separate nights? I still kinda don't get that

It wasn't my original plan. The plan was visit N2 and fruit vend N3 visit someone else, which I later decided would best be 11:30. But then I second-guessed it.

(Btw on that note: I actually thought that me receiving my vig power was because I visited 11:30 because I submitted my night actions BEFORE receiving the vig.)

[mastina]

explain how he's only not scum if there are two groupscum and toog is one of them
~ skitter

Yayvideogames isn't scum. You fight me on that I fucking lynch YOU.
If Auro isn't scum--and I am pretty damn sure he's not--then there's only four possible scum slots for 2-3 scum.
You are one of them.

From your point of view, Rhinox should be confscum then because the team's {pisskop, Rhinox}, {pissop, Toogeloo; we're not in lylo today and have a mislynch}, or {pisskop, Rhinox, Toogeloo}.

[mastina]

i didn't know what it even was at first. i never saw it before when I used to play regularly. wiki had play advice where it basically said it can be claimed early but there's little downside not to. I went with not to, figured it'd just have been a distraction with 3rd party shenanigans already in play. I almost didn't bother claiming it now for that reason since i'm not even ascetic anymore anyways. If there's supposed to be a standard play for ascetic like how a miller should always claim early, i didn't know about it.

why are you ignoring this

I'm not; I'm calling it a fucking scumclaim from him.

[mastina]

why did you shoot wh4t again ?

If you mean why did I shoot? Because not shooting would've been gamethrowing.
If you mean why did I shoot Wh4t specifically?

Who else was I going to shoot? Wh4t was a near-universal scumread; Wh4t was in the "POE of four slots, two of them are scum" pool along with {Creature, Rhinox, pisskop}.

People were townreading Rhinox even though I thought he was scum; people were townreading pisskop and at the time I personally thought pisskop was the least likely of the four to flip scum.

It was always going to be either Rhinox or Wh4t and Wh4t seemed like the safer/better shot to take especially given his sketchy-as-fuck hammer on Creature.

[mastina]

??? how is there mechanically scum in us/pk

Because Yayvideogames is town and Auro is pretty damn likely town, leaving four slots of which 2-3 are scum.
One of the four slots is a survivor claim, and is thus either a survivor or third groupscum; in either case there's two scum aside from Toogeloo.
Which leaves 2 scum in the pool of {pisskop, Rhinox, 11:30}.

You and pisskop have pretty definitive not-scumVscum interactions.
Leaving it as either pisskop-Rhinox or 11:30-Rhinox; in either case, there's one scum between you but Rhinox is scum regardless.

[mastina]

we hit the idea that he's just the scum traitor, mastina
~ Pichu

That's not a 3P mechanic tho.

[mastina]

b) why aren't us/pk mechanically not scum together; as far as i can tell this just got pulled out of thin air

This is more or less convincing me you're the scum in between the two of you beyond what I already have as evidence because

you're the slot involved

and should be fucking aware of YOUR OWN PISSKOP INTERACTIONS and why they are pretty definitively not scumVscum.

The way you've treated pisskop's not the way you treat a scumbuddy; the way he treats you is not the way he'd treat a scumbuddy. And you should fucking know that yourself as the one actually involved in those posts.

[mastina]

???
am i scum or town mastin?

You're

possible

scum.
You're not someone who can't be scum; you're among the players I have the least reason to townread; you're in the POE; you're someone who there are plenty of reasons for you to be scum.

...Yet you are also not my

current guess

at scum. There's reasons for you to be town; some of the reasons why I thought you were scum I'm second-guessing as actually being evidence that you're town; mechanically there must be a scum in {you, 11:30} and there are much stronger reasons for it to be 11:30. So while you're possible, heck, even PLAUSIBLE, scum, you're not the

most probable

scum.

[mastina]

a) you just called auro a 'gut-townread',and using that to poe the game, and now you're 'pretty damn sure' he isn't scum

Yeah--and what changed was Toogeloo voted him when pisskop had already voted him and the reactions surrounding then changed my read.

b) why are you removing yourself (and your townreads) from the poe from *my* pov .... ? like that last line is a ridiculous conclusion

Because if you so much as think about voting me or Yayvideogames I'm fucking voting you and you lose regardless of your alignment, so.

[mastina]

How is Tog not the best lynch at this point if you're townreading me and Yay, Mastina?

Because I don't like lynching 3P claims?

[mastina]

Both of us have our votes on Tog. If we both were T and he's not groupscum, there's at least two groupscum and they finish the game.

There's a slight flaw with this logic.

I think the thought process comes from town in spite of the flaw tho.

[mastina]

why TF would I even bother claiming ascetic as scum, let alone later claiming to no longer be?

Why not?

Why would you, as scum, choose not to claim?

Is there a definitive reason that you'd have reason not to?

You're, after all, by your own admission, not familiar with the role--so why would you as scum have reason not to?
Someone familiar with the role, sure, yes, they'd know that the way you claimed was scummy as fuck.
But by your own confession, you lack that knowledge of the role.
So why would you, with your lack of knowledge about the role, have reason not to claim the role?

[mastina]

irrel
you understand that fmpov mastina always dies tonight right

I mean.
There's literally nobody else scum would want to kill, so.
Not just your perspective, from every perspective.

[mastina]

So you think my interactions with Pisskop were staged? A random lolbus and constant appeals to unvote, etc?

I do not think pisskop is scum with 11:30 from those interactions.
I do not think pisskop is scum with you from those interactions.
I do not think that pisskop is scum with Rhinox given their interactions.

Basically, legit serious, as the question.
Given that scum are disinclined to bus at this stage especially if there's only two of them.
And given that pisskop has had very-much-would-be-bussing interactions with all three.

Legit serious question.
Who could pisskop be scum with?

The answer is pretty much nobody. The only candidates are Toogeloo (in which case lol today's not actually lylo), Yayvideogames (who is just town here period), and myself (and I know that to be wrong).
So pisskop is, through interactions, pretty damn cleared here.

[mastina]

For the record, @mastina and @ank, if you're both town, I'm putting all of the burden of sorting each other on you two. If you're both completely confident in the other's alignment, I will not be reading you as having different alignments ever. Let me know if I'm overestimating your confidence

Sure. Yayvideogames is town.

There.

[mastina]

Let's say rhinox is scum
He didn't claim ascetic because he's scum
He got to make two nightkills last night
who's his partner, if not pisskop who's voting him? toog?

If it wasn't you (it is), then it'd be Auro, I'd admit.
But if you vote Auro I'd take it as a scumclaim here, so.

[mastina]

VOTE: Rhinox
Let's leave that there with Toogeloo's vote already there.

I see no risk to it. Yayvideogames isn't scum; of {pisskop, 11:30, Auro}, pisskop has interactions which strongly suggest he's not scum with either of them; literally the only way this loses the game is if it's 11:30 and Auro and I'm willing to put that to the test.

[mastina]

Mastina i literally have no ide how you're reaching some of your conclusions

By reading the fucking game and analyzing it rather than just pretending to.

[mastina]

I'll get to this game tomorrow.
I fruit vended to Auro; I visited Rhinox.
VOTE: Rhinox

[mastina]

This is also a scumclaim. zeebu was, by group consensus, considered "not groupscum"--either a survivor, or town.
Toogeloo was, by group consensus, considered "not town"--either a survivor, or scum.

This is not exactly as I remember it. Toog was like >80% consensus survivor. zeebu was considered "not groupscum" sure, but that was based on a replacing in derp that could have easily been faked, and it wasn't just survivor or town, he could have been some other 3rd party other than survivor, could have been scum traitor too but if I'm being honest I have to admit I didn't think about the traitor possibility when making the kill. I just felt toog was a known entity and zeebu needed sorted and my kill was always going to be one of those 2. To shoot elsewhere assuming missing scum puts the game in a mylo scenario (not lylo 5-3, not knowing there would be 3 kills) with 2 unsorted possible survivor/3rd parties is not a chance I take with a vig shot.

This sounds an awful lot like "I scumread zeebu", not "group consensus was zeebu wasn't town". Because you fucking know that group consensus was zeebu was "not groupscum"; either survivor or town. Proof:

(also it was p consensus that zeebu wasn't groupscum at that point so like ... that's a p dumb shot to take if that was their wincon)

I'd prefer to lynch toog over zeebu
- skitter

pedit: okay so zeebu still probably not groupscum? But also like, was on both wagons and is not solving, so almost certainly not town

like saying zeebu is scum is... kind of a meme...

zeebu and toog are obviously trueclaiming 3p (well, zeebu is fakeclaiming, but ras claimed)

Is zeebu cleared for anything except the "scum would have told him his pred's claim"? -

i think gamestate makes it obvious he's not groupscum

i think rhinox/toog/zeebu/voted are all fairly cleared

Voted, zeebu, Rhinox, and Toogeloo are never groupscum

him not contributing with anything to progress town's wincon

will just declare you as a public enemy, if he doesn't vote with town I will personally powerlynch him one phase before LyLo.

I don't think he's town like at all, think he's legit 3p of some sort. The mentality behind his posts just screams survivor,

only defending himself, not giving a shit about pushes

, he was an unaccounted for abstainer yesterday.

+doing shitty reads
This is town!Zeebu.
I don't know how 3P!Zeebu looks, but scum!Zeebu is different.

I think there's no doubt he's not mafia and the fact that piss and skitter were doing things to put him back on the table is sketchy as fuck

zeebu is probably town.

I agree that Zeebu is towny.

Zeebu is not the lynch today.

Also reads right now.

zeebu

Chickadee
Old Dogs
Voted
The Three Musketeers
Vengaboys
Chemist1422
NotMySpamAccount/insomnia
Gamma Emerald
Fuscosco
Wh4t
KidAmn
Toogeloo
ZZZX
ElevenThirty
Vorkuta
YAYVIDEOGAMES

There were plenty of townreads on zeebu.

So but my shot is scum claim you say... whats the logic? I'm scum, I get a shot, I shoot zeebu over toog and either over any pretty much any other possible shot that would have had more benefit to scum.

It is a scumclaim because it is a shot that sounds plausible enough while still being a blatantly scum-oriented shot to take. If you had killed YAYVIDEOGAMES it wouldn't be a shot you could claim (see also: Yayvideogames was the scum nightkill last night); if you had killed me it wouldn't have been a shot you could claim (I was consensus townread at the time); if you had killed Voted's slot it wouldn't have been a shot you could claim (at the time Voted was being townread); who could you have killed and claimed the vig shot? pisskop? 11:30? Slots that benefit you more alive than dead. (Or are scumbuddies but I'd say that counts as benefitting you more alive than dead anyway. )

Also with hindsight benefit can point out that you JUST SO HAPPENED to shoot the "could be 3p" claim that was town, rather than the "could be 3p" claim that was actually scum.

You say Toog should have been my shot so since not I must be scum with toog then? except I'm trying to get him lynched since post 1 today so the great plan is to bus toog for cred I guess? Only then I don't hammer when I have the opportunity earlier? tell me how this makes me scum???

The thing about vigging scum is that it is absolute: it is something that cannot fail, cannot be changed, cannot be redirected, cannot be shifted elsewhere, and also cannot be observed by players until AFTER the fact (by which, I mean, you don't get to see the proof of the dead scum until the scum is actually dead). Shooting scum is hard proof of someone being town because scum wouldn't shoot their scumbuddy.

The same cannot be said of bussing, because bussing is a thing. Bussing is not absolute. It is something that can fail; you can bus a scumbuddy and still end up with a town lynch. It is something which can be changed; you can start bussing a scumbuddy but change it at any time. It is something which can be observed by players before the flip; it is something that can garner thoughts of "this can't be scumVscum"...but there's something that it does which the vig shot on scum doesn't; it doesn't innately leave the scumbuddy dead and even IF the bus is seen through to the end--even if the scumbuddy is lynched. It gives a full extra day of interactions to set up the endgame; it gives the scumbuddy a full extra day to give their input, to give their thoughts, to lay out interactions that are helpful for the scumteam. So bussing scum is not hard proof of someone being town because scum WOULD bus their scumbuddy.

And this is stupidly self-evident.

[mastina]

Mastina i dont understand your auro read

Voted was a fairly strong gut-townread.
Auro's posting did nothing to diminish this--admittedly, originally, Auro's posting did nothing to strengthen it. But then with the way Auro interacted with others (particularly around the time pisskop voted him and Toogeloo followed through with a vote on him), it DID strengthen the read. Yes, I realize that it's not

impossible

for a scum-Auro to have made that appeal, to have faked the thoughts that he was showing. It's

possible

to do that as scum. Possible...but I don't think it's

probable

. I'm not even sure it's even plausible. The one and only reason Auro's not an absolute locktown read is because Yayvideogames were entertaining the idea of Auro possibly being scum and I trust them to not only be better scumhunters than me but also to have more meta experience to base a read on Auro off of. That's literally the only reason I haven't locktowned him; the doubt from Yayvideogames is enough where I feel obligated to myself have doubt.

But in a void. Left to my own devices. Not taking into account their feedback. I'd be locktowning Auro here absolutely.

[mastina]

@mastina is there any chance you are withholding night action info

Unless you count me claiming "X-shot vig" and withholding the value of X? (Hint, it's lower than 4. ) Nope! I wish I was; if I was, this game would be easy. But alas.

[mastina]

3) i have mechanical issues with being able to receive a role and use it in the same phase. It makes it dependent on activity. If she received it an hour before night ended and wasn't online she would have missed the opportunity to use the shot?

Well two things about that.
1: That's not the time I received the shot, so that's irrelevant.
2: Even if I didn't use the shot then, it wasn't a night-specific vig shot and I could then use it on a different night.
Also.

3: I never lie about my roles as scum and when I actually fullclaim as town I never lie about my role as town, either. (I will admit, I will

mislead

prior to a fullclaim; I will

misdirect

prior to a fullclaim, I will try to make people think that my role is something that it is not; I literally opened the game with a fakeclaim that held my real role of VT and the moment I received my loud fruit vend I claimed masonizer to plant the idea that I was a loyal loud fruit vendor. But when I come clean. When I actually reveal the deception. When I stop the misdirection and actually fullclaim my real role. I leave nothing out and tell the absolute truth.)

Timestamps are the ultimate extension of this. I get as close as I can to exact timestamps without getting modkilled every time it's pertinent information to hand out. I don't lie about them--in fact, I

can't

lie about them. This is provable because the last time I was in a position where it would've been beneficial to have lied about timestamps,

I couldn't pull it off

. I ended up not paraphrasing my PT (which was a red flag that all was not as it seemed), when I always paraphrase my PTs. And it was for precisely that reason; I couldn't lie about a timestamp.

I received my role during the fucking night. Not long after the night; a couple hours. But that is when I received it. I used it that fucking night.

[mastina]

I can see this being TvT.

The only way I can see that being true is if:
1: Both 11:30 and Auro are scum (and everything tells me that, no, they're not; a maximum of one of them would be), or
2: There's only two groupscum.

I'd accept the latter, but the former I am rejecting outright.
And if it is in fact the latter we can afford a mislynch, so.

[mastina]

would what be the best kill fir scumstina?

Realistically speaking? No, but not by much. If I were scum making the kill, it'd be Rhinox instead, especially since Rhinox was almost my actual kill anyway. The difference between the two would be minimal; scumastina would still need to claim the vig target. She wouldn't vig Toogeloo; she wouldn't vig a townread so Yayvideogames and probably 11:30 would be off the table; she'd be limited to the pool of {Wh4t, Rhinox, pisskop}, the pool she said to lynch within.

If we assume there's no scumbuddy within those names (which is a fairly reasonable, albeit admittedly not absolute, assumption to make; you personally would have good reason to make this assumption), then the choice becomes a combination of factors:
-Which of these players presents the largest threat during lylo? That is, which player has the highest chance of being obvtown (and thus not lynchable); which player has the highest chance of being accurate (and thus having dangerous reads); which player has the highest chance of being charismatic (and thus having dangerous thread presence)? Across the board on all three fronts, Wh4t is actually the lowest of the three and thus the poorest choice. While both Rhinox and you can make cases for being obvtown/charismatic/accurate, I can tell you that scumastina fears veteran "logical" players far more than she fears relative-rookie "spammy" players; Rhinox would be the highest threat.

-Which if these players would make the most sense for town-mastina to have vigged? That is, which player is the player mastina would be most likely to vig if she were town with a vig shot she intended to use? Wh4t is the highest of the three here, yes, but not by much. You're the lowest of the three.

Ergo, scumastina shoots Rhinox. Both because I almost legit did shoot him (it was almost a coinflip between Wh4t and Rhinox, like 55-45), and because he'd be far more threatening with him as town, than Wh4t would be. (To be blunt, I've no respect for Wh4t's capabilities as a scumhunter. I kinda want to type out the patented "mastina psychological profiling" list to demonstrate that.)

[mastina]

I kinda want to type out the patented "mastina psychological profiling" list to demonstrate that.

Fuckit, let's do it anyway.

If I were scum, a list like this is not

guaranteed

to be in the scum PT. I am a busy woman. I slack off a shitload regardless of my alignment. I was, demonstrably, not around for most of D1 and that lack of presence would be reflected in a scum PT. So a list like this might not appear in the scum PT.

HOWEVER

.

Even when a list like this

isn't

in the scum PT...it is ALWAYS in my head. I always mentally do this. 100% of the time, in every scumgame. I run through this process. Typing it out? Typing it out is showing my homework, letting my scumbuddies know my thought process. But this is my thought process regardless.

YAYVIDEOGAMES (alisae +2)
^There are two Alisaes in mafia games: the Ali who doesn't give a fuck, and the Ali who gives some fucks. In the former, Ali does virtually nothing and is mostly harmless. In the latter, Ali by emself presents a credible threat. The former appears far far far more often than the latter, but the latter should not be discounted.

HOWEVER.

Regardless of which Ali we see: Ali is unlynchable. You might think a disengaged Ali is lynchable. E isn't. It's not possible. In fact, an attempt to mislynch Yayvideogames would very much be ill-advised. Ali will obvtown them, guaranteed. They will be obvtown-to-the-point-of-conftown no matter who the other two heads are.

So even if Ali isn't accurate, even if Ali isn't charismatic (and make no mistake, Ali when invested IS charismatic), they are someone we want dead sooner rather than later...especially depending on who the other two heads are. If the other two heads add the accuracy and/or charisma to the obvtown of Ali, we've got a problem.

-->
(This would be some time on D1 because Ank alt-slipped as Yayvideogames while modding Restless Spirits)
...Ank is in that hydra?!?
POWERFUCKINGNIGHTKILL THIS. They are our N1 nightkill guaranteed. There is no player here who could possibly be a greater threat than her. She is the everything. The obvtown. The charismatic. The accurate. She's the very best player on site at reading gamestates and she WILL fuck us over if we let her live. She NEEDS to die, now.
-->
(This would be whenever I realized the third head was Krazy)
...Alisae. And Ankamius. And Krazy. Why the fuck aren't they dead yet? They need to be dead NOW. They need to be dead YESTERDAY. Krazy is the player here who knows the most about me. Only Ank could rival him, and she's ALSO in the hydra. They need to die.

NotMySpamAccount
^Harmless. Mislynch bait, not accurate, not charismatic, not obvtown. The only thing to be concerned about is that it's KNOWN that he's mislynch bait, so don't jump at the chance to mislynch him.
-->
insomnia
^Still harmless. Not exactly mislynch bait, which actually is better. He's lynchable. He's situationally obvtown to the players who have experience with him, but that obvtownness can be overcome with sufficient paranoia, which even those that know him will succumb to. He's not exactly accurate or charismatic, either. While I advised us to stay away from jumping on NMSA, we CAN jump on insomnia if need be. Would advise caution, he might OMGUS, but it's still doable and viable.

Fuscosco
^Harmless. See everything about NMSA? Pretty much applies to him too, including being known mislynch bait. Still, if forced between trying to mislynch NMSA or trying to mislynch Fuscoco, we'll receive less resistance on Fus.
-->
pisskop
^Well that's unfortunate. pissop's a step up. He's not utterly unlynchable, not absolute obvtown, but he's a pain to deal with. He's above average in all of accuracy, obvtown, and charisma. Situationally, might be worth a nightkill if we can afford one, but otherwise, we'll have to deal with him by removing his support network and hoping we can let paranoia on him fester.

ElevenThirty (skitter30 + Irrelephant11)
^I underestmated skitter--once. (Well, not exactly. I knew she was good, and I had no choice in the matter; every other option looked worse than her, a fact she correctly deduced in lylo.) Once was enough; never again. We're nightkilling them. Early. skitter thrives in the lategame. I don't even care about Irrelephant who frankly probably elevates them even higher as a threat. skitter, in of herself, would be reason to nightkill them. Not as immediately as Yayvideogames, but they NEED to die early. Before lategame. Before lylo. They cannot be allowed to live long enough to gamesolve.

Letting them live for a night or two won't kill us--there will be tension between her and Ankamius. But that tension, by lylo, will be resolved; that tension, by lylo, will disappear. So before lylo, they need to die. They might not be our N1, but we can't let them live to see D4.

The Three Musketeers (Flavor Leaf, Nero Cain, Ramcius, Rosterfoster)
^Honestly I'm not really afraid of them. FL's a joke. People are afraid of him; I'm not. Nero Cain used to be good, but he's been on the decline. Ramicus is reasonably skilled, but not really exceptional. rosterfoster's pretty good, too, but he's not someone worth nightkilling. As a whole, this hydra just isn't very threatening. The most threatening aspect of it is that FL and Nero are likely to scumread me regardless of my alignment and even that's something which I wouldn't be afraid of; we can weaponize it to our advantage and in general, I just...don't think that they're someone we need to focus on. Sure, yeah, if we can spare the nightkill, we can use it on them, but there's better kills to make this game, e.g. Yayvideogames, 11:30.

Chickadee
^Harmless. You know what I said about Fuscosco? Applies to her even more. Easy to mislynch, but literally nobody knows she's mislynch bait even though she is, so you can jump on her with impunity. Not a threat reads or charisma-wise; she's mostly a sheep.

Chickadead
(If I didn't know the members within)
^I have no clue who this is.
(If I did know it was the worst and RAS)
^Honestly, legitimately one of the best nightkills we have available. the worst is literally the opposite of his name; dude's paragon-levels of good. He's obvtown; he's charismatic; his one weakness is accuracy in that he's not a scumhunting god, but he's town glue which holds the town together almost as well as Ank would. That's counterbalanced by RAS, who is a RIDICULOUSLY competent scumhunter (remember, this would be typed out pre-ban and this is what I thought of RAS before I knew the truth) and fairly convincing on his own. He's less obvtown, sure, but the worst covers that weakness. Might not be our N1, but definitely our N2.
-->
zeebu
^Oh thank god. Remember how I said the slot was worth killing? It's not anymore. I don't know who zeebu is but unless zeebu's the alt of a ridiculously good player...just. not. worth really bothering with.

KidAmn
^This dude's literally our greatest asset. A hardcore, HARDcore tunneler, one of the worst on the site at tunneling. More than that? A good solid 90-99% of those tunnels? On town. We're literally never nightkilling KidAmn here and we're going to exploit KidAmn for the longest possible time. If necessary, we'll mislynch KidAmn because being a hardcore tunneler who tunnels on town KidAmn will earn animosity with the town, but we want KidAmn alive for as long as possible.
-->
Rhinox
^Well...shit. Rhinox is, undeniably. Rusty. The era of "logical" players is dead. Given that he is rusty, he will not be as good as he was when he was at his prime; the meta shift will mean that things which used to be scum that he'll scumread, won't actually be scum anymore. His archaic style is likely to be scumread by others as well because people by default in the current meta tend to scumread the 'clinical' style of posting he has.

So why do I say 'shit' to this rather than 'cha-CHING!'? Because with Ank (-->and Krazy) in the game, they're likely to defend him. (Which, mind you, is why we should've killed Yayvideogames ages ago; why didn't we?) Ankamius and Krazy are the only players in this game who are themselves relics of that time. They recognize the style of the players from it. So as long as Yayvideogames are alive, we can't kill Rhinox. But with them dead, we can mislynch him easily enough.

Vorkuta
^Dude's mislynch bait but somewhat known as mislynch bait. Fairly run-of-the-mill accuracy/charisma-wise, so not really a threat. Could be a possible mislynch, but take caution.

Chemist1422
^Harmless. He's pretty run of the mill.

Wh4t
^Harmless. A little more "logical" than post players, but that logic doesn't translate into accuracy, doesn't translate into charisma, doesn't translate into being obvtown, and in fact is detrimental in all three fronts. Not known mislynch bait, but totally is mislynch bait. Easy money mislynch here.

Old Dogs (Titus + Katyusha)
^Honestly, I'm not afraid of Titus at all. She's just...not worth killing anymore. In her prime she presented a legitimate threat but nowadays? Nowadays I'm just not afraid of her at all. Not earlygame certainly, but even in her supposedly strong lategame I'm just not really afraid of her. That being said? We're still killing this slot. Maybe not N1, but certainly N2 or N3 if not. Why? Simple. Because Katyusha is legitimately one of THE most threatening town players on site, and is legitimately Paragon-levels of good across the board. She's ridiculously accurate; she's ridiculously charismatic; she's ridiculously obvtown. We're not letting them live on that alone.

Vengaboys
(If I didn't know who they were)
^I have no clue who this is.
(If I did know who they were)
^Harmless. Skygazer's decently good, but not unlynchable, not accurate to the point of demanding a nightkill, not charismatic enough to win the game. We don't need to pay attention here.

Voted
^I have no clue who this is.
-->
Well Voted's pretty obvtown, but I wouldn't prioritize killing him yet. He's not charismatic and he's not accurate.
-->
Auro
^Harmless. Not charismatic. Not accurate. Situationally obvtown, in that some players who know him know when he's town, but this isn't necessarily steadfast. If Auro were part of a hydra I'd be concerned (dude's competency skyrockets when he has a hydra partner to bounce ideas off of, dunno why), but as he's solo this game, he himself is not a threat. If he's obvtown, oh well; Voted was also obvtown. If he's only conditionally obvtown, we might be able to mislynch him if we kill the people who see him as obvtown.

Gamma Emerald
^Harmless. Not exactly inaccurate, not exactly lacking charisma, and situationally can be obvtown, but in most situations, Gamma's not topping the charts in any of these fields. We can afford to keep Gamma around in the game.
-->
Errantparabola
^If Errant were in the game I would think EP was a threat. Fortunately, EP seems to permanently be out of the game, so. Not someone to be concerned about.

ZZZX
^Harmless. Not accurate, not obvtown, not charismatic. The people who were around when he was playing might be able to read him (but most of them are priority nightkills anyway, so. We kill them and we leave nobody alive who knows how to townread him), but once those players are dead, he's not currently well-known mislynch bait and is thus, an easy free mislynch.
-->
Creature
^Well, fuck. Creature's not charismatic, but he's going to be both accurate and obvtown. Stay away and hope he's ignored. Don't try to lynch him, and try to stay on his good side to delay the inevitable. We can't afford to kill him yet so we'll have to rely on the lack of charisma, but we don't want him living to lylo so at some point we're gonna need to nightkill him.





As scum that's how I'd have approached each of those players.

[mastina]

I think Mastina should be cleared, I'll treat her as town.

I mean.
Yes.
But why, from you?

I have a plethora of reasons for being town this game.

None of them are reasons I'd expect you to be familiar with enough to give me that designation.

If scum was on the wagon, {11:30, Rhinox} has scum.

Scum was on the wagon. The only names off were myself and pisskop and unless you float the idea of only-two-scum (admittedly possible) or both pisskop and I are scum, you 100% have to believe that there was scum present on that lynch.

And I happen to agree on this point:

I feel like scum would want to be *on* it rather than off

The only question would be who's the scum on the wagon.

I believe Rhinox is one.

My main debate is on whether it's you or 11:30 for a second, or if there's a second at all. (I'm strongly leaning you town; if there's three scum I'd think the third is 11:30 but I am not 100% absolutely sure about them being scum.)

[mastina]

i don't know who would kill yay, sure, i agree the nk makes little sense

Um.
Literally the only player in the game who wouldn't nightkill Yayvideogames is me?

I'm the one player who stands nothing to gain from that nightkill (given that both Ank and Krazy were quite aware that I'm town and that at least one head of Yayvideogames shaded basically every one of the surviving players on D4

except

for me; I can track down quotes where they give Auro suspicion, 11:30 suspicion, Rhinox suspicion...the only one I'm not positive exists is pisskop suspicion and even that I think existed at least once at one point yesterday).

So literally anyone else as scum.

Has reason to kill them.

Who else would scum kill?
Me? Rhinox gets lynched as a consequence.
pisskop? Removes him as a mislynch candidate. Also prevents him from potentially voting town, if he is going after town.
You, if you're town? Removes you as a mislynch candidate; increases Yayvideogames's already-dangerous accuracy as they no longer need to focus on you to solve the game; prevents you from potentially voting town if you're going after town.
Auro? Removes him as a mislynch candidate. Also prevents him from potentially voting town, if he is going after town.

You're delusional if you think that anyone else would've been the nightkill. Sure, before I entered into the 1v1 with Rhinox it could've been me. (And both myself and Yayvideogames were under the impression it would be me.) But between entering the 1v1 with Rhinox and Toogeloo flipping groupscum, scum had zero incentive to nightkill me. I knew from the moment I cast my vote on Rhinox and we didn't lynch Rhinox that I'd be living through the night.

Sure if Rhinox were lynched yesterday, I'd be dead 100% today regardless of his flip.
But because he wasn't the lynch yesterday, I was 100% living today regardless of his alignment.

[mastina]

i'm a little nervous scum!mastina makes that kill to 'conf' themselves as town if ank was misreading her
or i could be wifoming it and she's just town

I have never made a nightkill, least of all in fucking lylo, for wifom purposes.
I have never made a nightkill of my fucking ally in lylo, leaving me without any allies in lylo.

You know why?

Because when you have no fucking allies.
You fucking get lynched.

People don't buy into NKA. People don't buy into wifom gambits. People call it "but you could've done it for wifom!" and thus the value of doing it for wifom is lost. It's worthless; it doesn't work; it backfires 100% of the time and is utterly stupid play.

No, I nightkill threats.

Yes, I'd nightkill Ankamius. She's the most threatening player in this entire playerlist, possible exception Krazy...who is in the same slot as her. But I'd do it N1. Not N4.

[mastina]

You show my final 15 or so posts to people like mastin, and theyll confirm that that is some of they towniest stuff to ever come out of this site.

I mean.
I think you

could

pull it off as scum.
Could.

I don't think you

did

pull it off as scum; I think that your posting is in fact, just town.

[mastina]

i don't get why she's townie;

Because the difference between my townplay and my scumplay is night and fucking day and this is my townplay through and through; because the scum nightkills don't line up with my modus operandi as scum; because of the roles I received and the way I have used them; because Ank and Krazy the best two players on site at reading me said I was town and scum didn't silence them earlier; because I claimed ridiculous roles and used them in a ridiculous way that scumastina wouldn't have thought of; because I shot Wh4t instead of Rhinox (or pisskop I guess); why

wouldn't

I be town?

[mastina]

Oh also I thought Toogeloo was scum until he claimed survivor; I as scum would not have thought of the idea of claiming 3P; I as scum would not have told Toogeloo to claim 3P; Toogeloo knows me well enough to know that I pretty much never doubt 3P claims so has more incentive to pull off the 3P claim with me as town specifically so I'd be inclined to defend him.

[mastina]

pedit but why does yay die over mastina if they're both town then ?

Aside from how the 1v1 between Rhinox and I was left unresolved?
Aside from how the 1v1 between you and Yayvideogames was considered by many to be "quite possibly TvT"?
Aside from how Yayvideogames at various points during D4 scumread most of the players?
Aside from how Yayvideogames was on the scum lynch whereas I wasn't?

How about just the fact that Yayvideogames is made up of three players who each on their own as solo players are more competent than I am, yet alone when together in a hydra?

[mastina]

Yup, it's plausible scum thought a lynch on Mastina would be easier than Yay - even if scum assumed there'd be a confrontation with ElevenForty today, Yay "coming around" would be dangerous in the long term.

This mind you.
Is precisely why scumastina would let neither Yayvideogames nor skitter live to lylo because skitter coming around is something I know damn fucking well and good is something she can and will do.

[mastina]

i'm still confused why she visited voted (auro) twice

Because I wanted to fruit vend to him but had better targets each night for the fruit vend.
Last night, I didn't. (Well I

could

have fruit vend to Rhinox and visited him a third time but I thought that a stupid idea.)

[mastina]

you didn't; you called mastina town and left it at that

Um.
I've just been reading Auro's posts.
He did more than just call me town? He most certainly did not "leave it at that".

[mastina]

And what's the point of visiting someone who's ascetic

I was hoping, to be honest, that someone in the game received a tracker power (a near-universal power present in MBOS games) and tracked me last night.

Fruit Vending to Auro would ensure that half of my action was 100% confirmed to have gone through because he'd claim to receive the fruit and the tracker would have seen that--leaving a tracker tracking me as then being able to test whether my visit on Rhinox went through or not.

Vice-versa doesn't work as well. If I fruit vended to Rhinox and visited Auro, then the only proof to be had is IF Rhinox received the fruit AND chose to claim he received the fruit (something he very well may choose not to). A tracker tracking me to only Auro wouldn't know that it was a visit to Auro; a tracker tracking me to both Auro and Rhinox wouldn't know that it was fruit vending to Rhinox unless Rhinox claimed the fruit.

It just seemed like the smarter play.

[mastina]

I'm really really confused why mastina visits someone she's scumreading for being ascetic

Um.
Specifically

because

I'm scumreading them and they claimed a ridiculous-as-fuck ascetic claim?

[mastina]

Could it be interpreted as evidence of lying? He claims ascetic, successful visit -> He's lying?

Yes.
Would require either a tracker or a follower, sure.

But again.

Those powers are near-universally present in MBOS games and was really hoping one was present this game to be used on me last night.

[mastina]

If she wanted to test the ascetic why didnt she fruit-vend him?

Because of the number of failure conditions.
How could I differentiate between Rhinox being ascetic and Rhinox simply not claiming the fruit?
Assuming a tracker tracked me, how could a tracker differentiate between me fruit vending one target and visiting the other?
In both cases, there's no way to do so with me visiting Auro and Fruit Vending Rhinox, regardless of whether Rhinox receives the fruit or does not, and simply remains silent.

By fruit vending to Auro, the latter is fixed. A tracker tracking me would thus either see me visit Rhinox (in which case, he's not ascetic), or would not see me visit Rhinox (in which case, he's ascetic); the tracker would know I fruit vended to Auro because Auro would always claim the fruit.

Simple logic.

[mastina]

Mastina i'm trying to decide rn if i should just sheep ank

The answer is always to sheep Ank, the real question is which Ank to sheep.
(And also, how to determine what would actually be considered 'sheeping Ank'. )

[mastina]

I was gonna come post here either tomorrow or Friday. ;_;

I knew Rhinox was scum and in pisskop vs. Auro I was 100% siding with pisskop.

[mastina]

Scum, as the informed minority, have an easier time making sense, because they are working with extra information.

See also: why scumastina has a known scumtell of making too much sense.