Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[OkaPoka]

In fact if tmck remains un-cc'd

coalition is straight up better than 1 of 4

Not sure. Examples please.

Okay so if tmck is 100% town

Then WE pick the coalition of 4 people.

If we succeed in picking 4 town, we win.

If we fail, then we know there is at least one scum in the pool but also deny the scum the nk.

If we coalition twice, we have two separate 1 of 4 pools to work with that guarantee us 1 scum each. 1 of 4 will also guarantee us one scum after we finish out the coalition pools.

Three scum left. Win.

also are u scum

This is incorrect. We have three possible scenarios if coalition fails twice.

1-1-1 One in each coalition.
2-1-0 Two in the first coalition. One in the second. Zero left over.
1-2-0 One in the first coalition. Two in the second. Zero left over.

Not scum.

The superiority of doubling Coalition is the auto win scenario.

You double 1 of 4 you better hope you lynch scum in the first lynch otherwise tmck is dead.

[OkaPoka]

Otherwise scum run it back again with the same 1 of 4 pool + one more

[OkaPoka]

Why you should not double 1 of 4 anymore

Scum give us 1 of 4 pool which guarantees us at least one scum.

Let's say there is 1 scum and three town. We have a 25% chance of hitting scum here.

If we hit scum, tmck can repick 1of4 and get nightkilled and we gucchi.

If we hit town, tmck repciks 1of4, draws nk.

Scum runs the same pool of 1of4 with 1 scum, 2 town, and one new person.

And we've learned nothing.

[OkaPoka]

Titus you are misunderstanding what I mean

We coalition twice, with two pools of different four.

If we succeed any, we win ok.

If we fail both, then we know both pools have at least "1 scum"

Therefore we should PoE lynch out the coalition pool until we hit the "1 scum" from each pool. Then move to next pool.

This will leave us with 1 scum left, we will have lynched 2 scum in the PoE and 1 scum already.

Then we 1of4 for final PoE. Which guarantees us scum lynch,

[OkaPoka]

Why you should not double 1 of 4 anymore

Scum give us 1 of 4 pool which guarantees us at least one scum.

Let's say there is 1 scum and three town. We have a 25% chance of hitting scum here.

If we hit scum, tmck can repick 1of4 and get nightkilled and we gucchi.

If we hit town, tmck repciks 1of4, draws nk.

Scum runs the same pool of 1of4 with 1 scum, 2 town, and one new person.

And we've learned nothing.

I can sheep this. If we do coalition, you agree that my scenarios are all valid? If we have that foundation, we can knock down how they should be drafted.

yes, but im saying for the sake of PoE we should only eliminate until we hit 1 scum in the coalition and then move onto the next coalition.

[OkaPoka]

But we don't start lynching until we coalition twice.

Action order.

Coalition -> Repick coalition -> Eliminate coalition 1 scum -> Eliminate coalition 2 scum -> 1 of 4

[OkaPoka]

pls let everyone check in before we vote coalition

I don't want to risk anything yet.

We have time

[OkaPoka]

Scum must put a mafia member in 1of4

[OkaPoka]

Please don't troll.

[OkaPoka]

I am actively avoiding scumhunting.

[OkaPoka]

We need to pick a total of NINE people.

no we need 8 people

[OkaPoka]

anyways deadline doesnt carry over so we can spend our time as much as we want

[OkaPoka]

actually

veto is pretty good tbh

idk how it didn't make the list

i feel like i said veto was good for eliminating pools

[OkaPoka]

Dance is not awful because any ability that denies scum the nk is not awful.

[OkaPoka]

Quiz is also not "awful"

It's a conditional power that should be reserved for post 1of4

[OkaPoka]

unless like

we're in 6 way with 1 scum and it's free

well that's why its a conditional power

[OkaPoka]

I would like everyone to sign onto the idea that both coalition pools must be with completely separate people barring the repicker

[OkaPoka]

it's unfortunate that there's only two good powers that kill an odd number of people

I would like everyone to sign onto the idea that both coalition pools must be with completely separate people barring the repicker

i do not sign on.

What's wrong with my plan?

[OkaPoka]

Repicker would be conf town by end of this phase thus if they are duplicated its okay because it is preferable to PoE from a pool of 4 than 5.

[OkaPoka]

RC, can I have confirmation that you are/are not the repicker? If that's a real cc then the game plan shifts.

@nancefloor read some of my earlier posts

[OkaPoka]

Theory of Coalition 4-pool

Assuming nobody ccs tmck, then tmck is conf town

Coalition is a pool of 5, but tmck being conf town locks it to 4 people left

If we do not win, then we know there is at least one scum in this "pool" for coalition.

Second coalition is the same, we should pick a different 4 + tmck.

Again if we do not win, we know there is at least one scum in this "pool"

That's why of this pool of 4, one must be scum.

[OkaPoka]

because you can 100% guarantee that we won't win off of the coalition if we're doing it like that
and if mbaki is going to prevent my being prevented i either need to seriously invest into this game and be willing to toxic it up to get myself prevented and murder him or accept that i'm going to be nightkilled and he's going to win

i'd rather just win the game with minimal interplayer bloodshed today with coalition.

and in the scenario you propose, we don't win?

Then we will have a blob of pools where either one must be scum in both pools or we have two different scums in each pool and now we can't guarantee of PoE.

[OkaPoka]

No it's two separate pools of 4?

[OkaPoka]

oh wait wtf

nvm im dumb

bye

[OkaPoka]

ok fuck coalition let's just start genociding

[OkaPoka]

double dance and then veto would delete 6

[OkaPoka]

we should coalition with an odd number of players right

[OkaPoka]

Since coalition size changes based on playerlist

It would be best if we shrunk down the playerlist a bit before we coalitioned

But we want to shrink it as much as possible without having nk's happen

Which is the theory behind dance first i think

[OkaPoka]

i thought coalition worked with 2 maf alive?

[OkaPoka]

And we happen to hit a scum pair in a dance then we 1of4 and just win


pedit: its ok overkill

happened to me too

[OkaPoka]

I'm just wondering if veto'ing first is ever worth it

IF we have 4 slots that are straight up going to be ? forever it might be

pedit: chennis we've moved on pls dont bring up any of my theorycrafting posts

[OkaPoka]

I'm just spitting out ideas that would make the coalition easier

But I think two shots at coalition is preferable to having an easier one coalition

[OkaPoka]

I still think one veto and two coalitions is better than two vetos and one coalition

[OkaPoka]

That's fine.

Veto -> Dance -> Coalition x2 stands to be the gameplan then?

[OkaPoka]

I was thinking we could potentially use dance to cut down more people to make a coalition stronger.

Plus we can always choose not to lynch a dance pair. Scum still don't nk.

[OkaPoka]

Dance:
Pairs will be announced publicly. Votes on either player of a pair will be considered identical; i.e. if Alice and Bob are announced to be partners, VOTE: Alice, VOTE: Bob and VOTE: Alice/Bob are all accepted as votes on Alice/Bob.

If a majority is not reached by deadline, no player is eliminated and the game will proceed into Night phase.

[OkaPoka]

pls dont veto me

[OkaPoka]

1of4 and stuff gives scum nk

[OkaPoka]

taly we literally cannot 1of4

Any ability that allows scum to nk should be used after we double up on a non nk ability

aka doubling coalition

[OkaPoka]

Well I want to cut down the playerlist a bit before we coalition

[OkaPoka]

RC, veto does not have good synergy with 1of4 if we save 1of4 for last.

[OkaPoka]

I still do not believe veto is strong with 1 of 4.

It requires too much luck and reads to be right.

[OkaPoka]

Arena is probably more suited to 1of4 synergy or even vengeful.

Veto not allowing scum to nk tmck means that if we want to cull the playerlist, we should use it now or after dance

[OkaPoka]

i have very little faith in us lynching scum if we go with

dance

with this playerlist

and at least, 1 townie is going to die.

so if we're cutting the playerlist, yeah thanks, we're cutting down town that couldve been resolved another way or placed into

coalition

the issue is that there are some people who will never end up in our coalition

so making the overall coalition easier by reducing the number of coalition members needed to be in it would be a way to play

[OkaPoka]

Of course we can simply not dance or veto and just coalition twice now for two chances to win

[OkaPoka]

Venge is better paired with 1of4, no?

[OkaPoka]

The way I see it

Protect is to give us an extra day if we can't agree on a power in the 10 days.

[OkaPoka]

also guys

we can decide not to lynch on a dance

[OkaPoka]

I think before we dance we should consider vetoing first

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: veto

[OkaPoka]

Veto would remove some lhf to make your coalition easier

[OkaPoka]

Why is veto better post - coalition?

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: dance

if thats the plan

idk about that towncore being all good

but ok

[OkaPoka]

because i'm in it or because you doubt taly/nancefloor/chennis?

lets not talk about it now : )

[OkaPoka]

seals need to fish to live or something like that

mbaki u wot

[OkaPoka]

pretty sure the deadline is why the fusco lynch happened but ok

[OkaPoka]

u cant vengekill in lylo u boo boo

[OkaPoka]

we gotta save vengekill for mylo

[OkaPoka]

mafia wincondition is control 50% of the votes

so in the instantaneous moment between vengekill and lynch i assume that maf would have "50%" of the vote and thus win

which is why in faq

[OkaPoka]

Vengeful:
If a majority is not achieved by deadline, the power is forfeited, and the Mafia may kill that Night.
If a town player is eliminated and the Mafia control 50% of the votes, the Mafia immediately win and the eliminated townie does not get a vengekill.

[OkaPoka]

hey


using it in mylo 4p is an improvement

[OkaPoka]

i think veto being useful after coalition is going to basically rely on our ability to come to terms in a failed post-coalition world

i doubt thats going to happen

[OkaPoka]

rc

to get a majority to agree to a coalition is going to take a lot of arm twisting

if it fails you do realize if it fails, then getting a supported veto thats good is going to be a herculean task that would probably have to come from a replacement right?

[OkaPoka]

actually wait this is solvable

we just coalition twice and if it fails we reveal rc and then he can veto pick

[OkaPoka]

maybe we can dance -> veto

[OkaPoka]

Dance would potentially remove two slots, making our coalition easier by one person, and if we really hate all pairs we just dont lynch

[OkaPoka]

i want to veto and dance before coalition though.

[OkaPoka]

I can think of 4 slots that should never be coalitioned.

Can you?

If you can then to maximize our coalition power, we should veto.

[OkaPoka]

oh no

veto is fantastic

just, after coalition is used.

i doubt that we are going to have the ability to come up with a good veto in the coalition pool if we fail two coalitions

[OkaPoka]

Veto will almost guarantee the death of three townies to maybe find the death of one scum, no?

[OkaPoka]

Oh.

You are serious about having 5 locktowns.

[OkaPoka]

Then in that case how does veto deal with deepwolf? A deepwolf can slip into your locktown.

[OkaPoka]

Is 5 a random number or a serious number, rc?

[OkaPoka]

and is TMCK included in that locktown pool

[OkaPoka]

okay you didnt need to name names but

With a dance and veto we should cut down the pool to seven

We can vengekill post coalition which should get us one scum then!

[OkaPoka]

if we double hit scum we cant veto because there is one scum left

[OkaPoka]

Titus, I think veto'ing first is a lost cause.

[OkaPoka]

If we double hit scum we might as well 1 of four and literally lynch everyone in the pool

Yes

[OkaPoka]

lets just hug it out

[OkaPoka]

dann just vote dance

we just need good vibes going into coalition at this point

[OkaPoka]

if we dont have good vibes going into coalition we are going to be torn apart by our own egos and it doesnt matter how good anyone's reads are by then

[OkaPoka]

where is clemency when u need him

[OkaPoka]

i think its possible for both of you to be right based on how you would want to dictate this game and play it


but at this point it is better for us to agree and move on then continue arguing

[OkaPoka]

i am definitely not a good solver by any means

[OkaPoka]

mbaki is not going to be lynched

the people who are agreeing with rc are not doing it because they sheep rc, everyone has come to their own independent conclusion on why dance is superior. this means if rc decides to make the game him vs mbaki, he won't have the same base of support

[OkaPoka]

some might say

he has assembled a coalition

rather than a vassalage

[OkaPoka]

rc ur going to give me the grumpies

[OkaPoka]

well last time mbaki was town he self voted out of the grumpies

and last time i played with you you also self voted out of the grumpies

[OkaPoka]

I was responding to TMCK.

[OkaPoka]

Let me summarize the interaction:

TMCK asked whether we could or could not use coalition after hitting scum in a dance.

I responded, as clearly as possible, no, because that would violate one of the prerequisites of coalitioning. I went to explain how that would violate the prerequisite of coalitioning. What is the question here, chennis?

[OkaPoka]

No, I think rc is right here. Veto after. Dance, coalition, veto, then we can decide from there. Quick question though. If we dance and hit scum somehow, we cant use coalition, right?

if we double hit scum we cant veto because there is one scum left

[OkaPoka]

are we considering veto?

[OkaPoka]

Creature/chemist pairing

[OkaPoka]

Are these pairings ranked like this for a reason

[OkaPoka]

I won't be mad if I'm the lynch

[OkaPoka]

RC is what mbaki wrote about you true

[OkaPoka]

Ok this might be a dumb reason to slight tr clemency but I feel like if he was scum he'd so funny/meme pairings like mbaki/RC and timedevil/nance

[OkaPoka]

Then again scum him might have not had a saying in scum pairings

[OkaPoka]

Aren't dance games permanent partners

[OkaPoka]

But RC is very likely wolf. Y ou need to keep in mind that in NK15's normal that ended a month or so ago, RC specifically brought up that I am not good at scum, and in that game RC did tunnel me day 1. I think he's full of shit and scum reads me every game (see: Rapier), but in Rapier he claimed that his read on me was a reaction test. If I believe that, then his read here as a full on scum read with complete confidence is garbage and very scum indicative. RC also hard busses day 1 almost every setup like this, see his comments in post game of NSG's last crapshoot game, and see FOTM (where I locked him as scum like d3 for doing the same shit - granted he was wolfier a bit there). I am not claiming complete confidence he's scum, but there's a lot of indicators, and if he is wolf he's just going to win after I die because that's what RC does. Look at what happened - I was the first vote on Fusco, and asked people to vote him, despite BEF wolfreading me and despite Overkill being a much easier option. Yes, this was RC's read first, and that is a thing to note, but he's saying I'm lock scum after being the FIRST vote on a wolf when my playstyle is heavy distancing but very anti hard-bussing in most lobbies. His whole read is just convoluted and awful. Or, look at him on the last day phase - he kept trying to convince people I was conf scum for giving mechanical information he disagreed with. This ignored my well-detailed explanations completely. His mindset in terms of mechanics isn't wolfy necessarily, the benefit of using our good powers late is definitely there, but early while there are more town voices alive to give input is far stronger. And again, after a d1 scum lynch in this setup, wolves are in a real real bad spot. Keeping the pressure up has a lot to focus on. So no, I'm not sure RC is wolf, but there's a good chance, and if we are TvT then he would've noticed that in my last wall about mechanics rather than doubling his read I think. And Overkill is just a good bet for scum, though I've heard this is his town game from somebody (Ank? please expand).

this is the relevant part to you rc

[OkaPoka]

wait

when is being the 5th best player on ms an insult

also why do my posts keep disappearing

[OkaPoka]

wait

when is being the 5th best player on ms an insult

I'd happily take that spot as consolation.

He was calling Boon the 5th best scum player on MS. He said I didn't make the list.

oh

[OkaPoka]

creature/chemist pairing feels like an afterthought/last ones left in the pool

anyone else?

[OkaPoka]

upon rereading conf bias iso i dont think that it points his slot to town anymore

[OkaPoka]

i feel like i may have been pocketed a bit and there were a lot of posts about specifically playstyle (which probably was triggered by rc wanting to PL him) but still

[OkaPoka]

mbaki under what scenario do you think that rc is town

[OkaPoka]

ive played 2 games of mafia with rc

both times he was town

1 in marathon

1 in micro

i dont agree with his self assessment/implication of his town game
but you seem to be an expert on his town meta

i was wondering if you think that this can fit into his town meta~

[OkaPoka]

i dont agree with his self assessment/implication of his town game
but you seem to be an expert on his town meta

what don't you agree with?

well your implication of your scum game makes it seem like your town game is very clear and straightfoward

but when i played with you

your thought processes and jumps were definitely not straightforward and were quite befuddling

[OkaPoka]

i don't claim to be an expert on reading RC, though i do think i'm alright at it.

yes, this could fit into his town meta. i'm not certain enough its his wolf game to full on gladiate it. is that what you're asking?

i guess it answers my secret thoughts

ill probs have more questions later

[OkaPoka]

rc

this is literally what you argued for being the most optimal

what we do now

[OkaPoka]

titus save us

[OkaPoka]

creature who i s scum

[OkaPoka]

why is taly obv town?

[OkaPoka]

titus must live to balance the town

[OkaPoka]

why are we all so negative

how do you even have a read on chemist

[OkaPoka]

do people just not enjoy playing mafia or something

so many negative vibes

or maybe its just negative bias

[OkaPoka]

Why apologize lol

People shouldn't take offense to that

[OkaPoka]

I'd rather be lynched than Titus/chen

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: creature/chemist

[OkaPoka]

I think having Titus would balance the RC/mbaki dynamic and be better for town

[OkaPoka]

what does obv town mean

[OkaPoka]

ok question is

does obv town mean obvious for person saying obv town or supposed to be obvious for everyone

[OkaPoka]

no titus lynch pls

[OkaPoka]

Tituss is very obviously scum here I feel like

i dont see it enlighten me

[OkaPoka]

because titus is the only person that they might respect enough to interact with if they are tvt

and titus is the only person i see who cares enough to actually interact with people

and i agree with titus on things

[OkaPoka]

Creature/Chemist or Chen/Chemist?

[OkaPoka]

why is having nuanced reads = scum?

[OkaPoka]

is he town meta here?

[OkaPoka]

so what is his town meta and scum meta that makes him so easy to differentiate

[OkaPoka]

Nice try BEF

[OkaPoka]

An integer number between 0 and 3

[OkaPoka]

(inclusive)

[OkaPoka]

my picks of people being scum >rand disregarding associatives and in no order are

bef/overkill/ank/creature/chemist/taly

so thats nobody lul

[OkaPoka]

+chennis probably

i was townreading him middle d1 and i dont remember why

ok so maybe only chennis if there was scum voting me but meh

[OkaPoka]

Do you think scum!me pairs myself with town!you?

well people werent scumreading and i think i even had a few people townreading me during power selection today and i played survivalistic af yesterday so yes its possible to do this wo it seeming like a goof

[OkaPoka]

if you are town i guess that is believable

[OkaPoka]

hmm

thinking this over i dont think creature/chemist is right

[OkaPoka]

nvm creature/chemist is probably right

[OkaPoka]

We need a thanos snap ability

[OkaPoka]

titus if nobody reaches majority its a nl which is what you want?

[OkaPoka]

So you believe that dance is a net positive?

[OkaPoka]

Except if a majority of what town wants is me dead then how does you voting me change the outcome?

[OkaPoka]

just pretend d1 didnt happen if you lynched scum 4Head

also vote creature/chemist please

[OkaPoka]

its just regression to the mean

also reminder to vote creature/chemist

[OkaPoka]

overkill why arent u pushing bef like you pushed him yesterday

[OkaPoka]

its really just time devil + overkill + someone else isnt it

[OkaPoka]

im town u zuckerbergs

this better be to lynch bef

[OkaPoka]

someone convince me bef is highest scum equity so i can self hammer and feel good about it

[OkaPoka]

are we at l1

[OkaPoka]

how am i being scumread ?

[OkaPoka]

oh shit this is the last relevant day

look ank i have other shit going on

oka is mostly gutread and the way that he's interacted with me, suggesting reveals and such, it doesn't feel like he's the kind of person to actually do that.

didnt u gut scumread me literally in the newsroom and i was town

why am i not the type of person to suggest reveals

dafuq

[OkaPoka]

as an aside i think that bef/oka is the single best 2x town lynch we could possibly lynch

what does me flipping town tell you about the game?

[OkaPoka]

which ironically is the other person I can find associatives with

and they are on the same wavelength as the shadowless slot and tmck

are you saying that the only partner you see me with is bef?

you think we are s-s?

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: Oka/BEF

this actually has really high information equity at worst now that I really look at it

I likey

what info ?

[OkaPoka]

Hi I'm still behind and confused AMA

why do you think people are townreading you>?

[OkaPoka]

Its a serious question

[OkaPoka]

I liked the game though I was sad I got danced the night away

[OkaPoka]

The issue with the setup is scum has like no agency lol

[OkaPoka]

Let them have their own gameshow of powers

[OkaPoka]

The strongest town probably, 1of4 was never used wahh

[OkaPoka]

Yessss genocide was the right option woooh

[OkaPoka]

was i seriously the only one who enjoyed playing this game?>

[OkaPoka]

i died d2 so thats probs why

[OkaPoka]

now try winning 10 games of town of salem in a row

[OkaPoka]

now try winning 10 games of town of salem in a row

forums or game tho

game

definitely game

[OkaPoka]

shut up exe

[OkaPoka]

w h e r e a r e t h e p t s

[OkaPoka]

I WANT SCUM PT I NO SEE SCUM PT I WANT SCUM PT I NO SEE SCUM PT

also super secret mbaki pt

[OkaPoka]

why the fuck is there 26 pages !!!!!!!

[OkaPoka]

that was an interesting skim my lord

[OkaPoka]

scum should be given x-number of sabotages or something for agency purposes

like 5+ sabotages, they can submit as many as they want and if they guess what power is selected by town tomorrow it becomes a super shitty and disastrous version of the power

so none of the mechanical power->power->power bs

[OkaPoka]

lynch can become popcorn :^)

[OkaPoka]

lynch -> only safe option

1of4 -> 1of6

8-ball -> multiple 8 balls, 3 sounds gud

arena -> idk

call a friend -> scum can write the message xd

coalition -> ??? idk

popcorn -> why would u pick this but asdf

protect -> idk

quiz -> idk

rank -> idk

reveal -> scum can reveal whoever they want instead, skip day

treestump -> idk

vengeful -> idk

veto -> idk

idk i liked the concept of the setup and would play in a variant of it