Mainstream Mafia II: D&D Edition [FIN]

[davesaz]

I am here. This is here.
Looks like a game that can be speed scrolled and just stop on the memeless pages?

[davesaz]

VOTE: No Governor

[davesaz]

Bingle, is governor shot in conftown hands better than no governor shot at all?

If there is cult then conftown there is not.

[davesaz]

RCEnigma is town because i can't think of a game he was scum in.

scummy reason (no opinion on the read obv)

[davesaz]

So no one wants to do fun things with me?

Sure I'll bite

Doubt

that

would be fun, but whatever you like.

[davesaz]

@MOD: can we have counts in the VC in addition to the list?

Doesn't matter a whole lot yet as it's obviously way fewer than 21, but it would be a good habit to get into for later.

[davesaz]

We have 40 players, most of whom have power roles of some sort. I figure it's not the known 1-shot governor that's going to cause "drama," and frankly if the mod is spending up to 9 days of our time doing this, there's probably some town reason we'd want to figure out someone to pick. I'm not going to speculate on what that is, but avoiding the game mechanic is essentially trying to argue the game is poorly designed. Maybe it is, but I'm going to play the game in front of me.

On one hand, I agree with this, and it matches with how I interpreted the earlier shorter post.
On the other hand, the wifom flip side of the same argument is that it's a juicy looking treat that's gonna get town in trouble if it's activated.
On the gripping hand, it could be just a fancy but very time consuming way to avoid having a traditional RVS.

[davesaz]

Woah 29 pages without my participation

Is that a new record?

Not if you're scum.

[davesaz]

the first five pages make me absolutely furious

stop fucking posting useless garbage or I will fucking vig you

yes I am claiming vig and I will be targeting the person who I count has the most fluffposts, I don't even fucking care if they're a confirmed innocent child

fluffposting is pro-scum in this game

Help get me elected and I’ll be the most geriatric poster in the game

No that’s mine along with being the most paranoid.

[davesaz]

I was pushing you because it was what I thought town!me would do

Umm, right.

[davesaz]

I have changed my mind on governor.
We need a thinker for that post.

No vote manipulation qualities here.

[davesaz]

I think we need to rule out anyone who routinely jumps into crazy ass gambits.

[davesaz]

I don't think FL is paranoid enough for governor.

[davesaz]

Site needs a "post it already, don't tell me about new posts" mode.

[davesaz]

To whoever is deleting posts
KNOCK IT OFF FUCKHEAD

I saw a different 933, also about deleted posts, and it changed. Since I know Gamma can't edit here, I suspect a database error of some kind related to the posting frequency.

[davesaz]

@MOD: If you did delete spam, please use that

very sparingly if ever

. It fucks with quotes and post references like this example 945!

I get the idea of having a clean game but sometimes cleanup causes more problems than it fixes.
End PSA.

[davesaz]

Am I allowed to open a new topic forcing the forum admins to add that feature even if this game is still ongoing?

Don't mention the game. This was already suggested btw. You won't be able to force them but I get the sentiment.

[davesaz]

I haven't quite known 1287 for 50 years.
<site's smiley list could use an : oldman: or something >

[davesaz]

Everyone over 100 posts should die a slow painful death

Ok boomer

Who is this Boomer you keep referring to?

[davesaz]

I’m going to design a game with a shitpost vig that can only shoot shitposters. Inspired by this game.

[davesaz]

If each player writes to each other player 15 times on day 1, we can reach 1000 pages

That’s only 960 pages isn’t it

oh yeah my b
everyone needs to write to every other player slightly more than 15 times

You're both off because you're both counting the player writing to themselves. But we really don't need a combinatorial explosion here.

[davesaz]

Creature- Might be premature, but the tone/solveyness/DGAF together makes my gut say town.

Umm you call this solvey Creature?
I don't disagree with the tone part but I prefer it when people with lemons make lemonade instead of complaining about the situation.
Of course, I can't say that I've seen Creature solve so perhaps it's an easy bar.

[davesaz]

Also you appear to not be noticing my insightful posting. But that's fine, few people ever do.

[davesaz]

Gov is objectively anti town why are we having this discussion again

It isn't completely anti town in an environment where the vote itself can be manipulated.
Still dangerous in the wrong hands, and the discussion of which hands are the right ones can yield information.
The wifom view of this is that it's important enough to have a vote for it, why second guess that importance.
I'm very opposed to the leading candidates. I don't trust our ability to guess at FL's alignment, and don't recall even playing with Menalque before.
Vorkuta is just bad (sorry comrade but I'm a straight shooter and look forward to the day I can upgrade your status).
So I'm still on no governor, with a side of convince me there is someone easy enough to read and trustworthy enough, who wants it.

And then of course it's a cult game so it better not stay out there too long. Which wifoms back in the direction of don't touch it even with vote manipulating roles...

[davesaz]

I'm at the bottom of page 60. Somewhat doubt I'll slow read the next 37 pages.

[davesaz]

Page 64/65, this is not a politics thread.

[davesaz]

On top of that it's a probably bunch of morons who haven't yet experienced the joy of the government taking 30% of their earnings, and health insurance another 10%, and after mortgage, 2nd mortgage, utilities, etc. having next to no disposable income at all. Then not realizing that it's exactly the same under communism and socialism but they would get even less say in how things are.

[davesaz]

So instead of reading a bunch of drivel and getting myself worked up...
The challenge is a 3-way gladiate that got burned on the gov election?
FL says he's a jester who was trying for wincon by winning the election? Why can't we just lynch ya for that?
Has no gov hammered or something?

[davesaz]

no one was talking about a silenced player who gains speech with a resolution to the gov situation...

I have a theory on that involving the ban thread. As in, it was a compromise way to let a banned player sign up for a game before it expired. I assume the listmods in the game must have approved it.

[davesaz]

Happy Birthday FL.

Weak TR's on Nero, Creature (yeah the spam was annoying but I think it's coming from a town place), Bingle, Amrun, 711.

Is a day friendly role reasonable to expect in a game of this type? Why would it be helpful to reveal it so early and unprovoked?

[davesaz]

Caught up, amrun is scum, ali is prob town on top of other people I listed

FL, PB also prob scum but would much rather lynch amrun first

We take opposite meaning from the same amrun posts.

[davesaz]

I haven't studied shit for today ^_^

If you look closely the brown varies from day to day.
Try to make your posts a little less brown.

[davesaz]

I think Amrun is town.

[davesaz]

I despise pushy people. If I go to the store and a salesperson follows me around, I'll go to a different store.
Menalque is a salesperson in a game where the best way to win is to let people think and make up their own minds.

[davesaz]

@MOD: Is the lynch deadline really 7 days for a 40 player game?

I'm an open advocate for generally shorter deadlines, but applying a scaling factor for number of players this is like a mini with a 2-3 day deadline.

[davesaz]

It’s D1 still so, I appoint myself as designated hammerer as always.

I was thinking on taking this on myself. Though it all depends on timing of when the opportunity comes up -- as someone who works 40-60 hours and volunteers on top of that there are large swathes of time that I might not be able to get to it fast enough.

[davesaz]

While I don't like Menalque's delivery, this

might

be town. If it's for the reason I think it is.

Pedit: by pressuring. You've made your case and there are 38 more people you need to get a read on.

[davesaz]

Actually EBWOP: I don't think it's a case per se. You've made your wishes know...

[davesaz]

I despise pushy people. If I go to the store and a salesperson follows me around, I'll go to a different store.
Menalque is a salesperson in a game where the best way to win is to let people think and make up their own minds.

I mean if u wanna towncase amrun go for it

2559, 2569, 2672 all show town motivation to me.

Where am I not letting people make up their own minds

Continuing to say it over and over is pressure. That's my final answer.

[davesaz]

Idk maybe Dave, but I don't like his pushing on Menalque over amrun.
Specifically that Menalque should focus on things other than his scumread and read the other 30 some odd players.

I'm being very specific in saying that I don't like people to break out the megaphone and yell "vote x" in every post, or most posts.
It reminds me too much of RC lynching townie after townie on something that boils down to "trust me I'm right".
Talk about other things.

[davesaz]

While I don't like Menalque's delivery, this

might

be town. If it's for the reason I think it is.

I specifically dislike the method.
I also feel the target of that method is the wrong target. We do however need a big wagon or six.

[davesaz]

Before you ask, yes I want a wagon but I don't have time right now to push something. (nor the personality type to push but that's a different thing)

[davesaz]

Y'all almost preview'd me into a pagetop lol.

[davesaz]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=11371060#p11371060]
It’s calling them a Baby Boomer, basically I’m calling them old and cranky[/quote]
Oh, so it's a compliment on the wisdom that comes from (in my case) 50+ years of life experience.

[davesaz]

Agreed that Ali can be tryhard as scum, but I doubt that'd be the case specifically for this game as either alignment. E was talking about taking a break until TM b/c burnout and eir hydra partner has seemingly flaked, which are both good reasons for Ali to not be engaged.

If Kise is still absent we can get a solid ali read with a heavy wagon there. But I TR em.

[davesaz]

Let's leave politics and economics to the forum where that normally happens.

[davesaz]

The gov votes should've restarted if there was a gladiator thing right? Did the mod say anything about that?

The VC after the challenge wiped a lot of votes, it was real.

[davesaz]

Wut

#yanggang

Fuck the yangers, make america ying again

No, traeremos el yang, no habrá yin. El equilibrio es producto de tu imaginación.

Sen öyle düşünsende yang asla başkan olamaz, tüm oylarım ve herkesin oyu bernie babaya

???

The first one is Spanish, which I can mostly read myself: No, we will bring the yang, there will be no yin. Balance is a product of your imagination.
Google Translate says the second one is Turkish: If you think so, yang can never be president, all my votes and everyone votes to bernie father
The 2nd translation is sketchy, probably because it's a round trip or 3 language translation.

[davesaz]

It is worth keeping an eye on.

[davesaz]

I can't tell yet if Gamma is trying hard, or trying to look like trying hard.
3383 is a decent find. I actually remember that post from FF and had questioned internally whether the offer to gladiate again was a gambit or not.

[davesaz]

ya know, maybe TSE is like mechanically town with the whole purpose of his role being able to hammer a lynch in this huge ass game? b/c getting 21 kittens to agree on a lynch seems like a herculean effort.

Can't remember if I already responded to this idea.

With 40 players it's almost guaranteed to be either MB or have extra killing roles, or possibly both. No special knowledge here, just pure math.
I agree with the theory that TSE's role is specifically to get us over the 1st day hump.

[davesaz]

Though I'd say not necessarily mechanically town, though it has that effect whatever the alignment is.

[davesaz]

ATTENTION ALL

I RECEIVED A FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR NOTIFICATION FROM GOBBLEDYGOOK

THEY ARE TOWN

I'm gonna sheep Nero lemme see who he's voting

2586 <hoping I remembered that number correctly>

[davesaz]

Creature is a bad wagon because it’s policy but he literally got warned in-thread not to spam

So like

Come on

Are you arguing chkflip wouldn’t have warned Creature if Creature was scum? Unless you don’t mean his post here I don’t think so at all really

That's not how I read this at all.

[davesaz]

Big bowl of pasta with marinara and sausages.

[davesaz]

Are you going to give a reason on this one?

[davesaz]

I think it's more a RP than a PR. Not that it matters to the observation.
I'd say I get the least out of gobble, if you're including the turkey in this list.

[davesaz]

miss lynch would be a pretty good title for a lynchbaity female.

I’m male.

In your user control panel there is a pronoun setting that you can use to inform people of this.

[davesaz]

I half assed this, so don't assume it's right

Wooper -

BBmolla, Enter, Doctor Drew, Formerfish L-7

Amrun -

Dongempire, Iconeum, gobbledygook L-8

Rautherdir -

Bingle, KidAmn, InsideJob711 L-8

Creature -

Firebringer, Untrod Tripod L-9

Gamma Emerald -

zoraster, Menalque, L-9

Doctor Drew -

Flavor Leaf, Rautherdir L-9

Firebringer -

Creature L-10

Flavor Leaf -

Dr Easy Bake L-10

Vorkuta -

Nero Cain L-10

Menalque -

Virgo the Immaculate L-10

Chennisden -

TSE L-10

TrueSoulEnergy -

Cephrir, Chemist1422, AaronFrost, Gamma Emerald, Amrun, wooper, Chennisden L-14

Thanks, and I won't assume it's right. It's probably close and that's good enough for now.

Agree with wagons on Wooper, Rautherdir, DD, and Vorkuta.

Strong disagree with TSE wagon. I can't fathom a reason for non-town to reveal that ability, even as a fakeclaim. The people who have an "awkward player" read on TSE are correct but I don't think it's AI.

Still maintain that the Amrun posts that I pointed out are town indicative. It isn't strong, but I'm gonna want to hear something rational behind the scumreads before I'd be willing to vote there.

I think Creature and Gamma are town. Not willing to vote either of them at this point. The rest of the votes are baseless as far as I remember.

There pretty much have to be scum who aren't being voted, but gotta find 'em before I can vote 'em.

VOTE: Vorkuta
Let's squeeze this one and see if it talks.
I'm flexible. Give me a reason.

[davesaz]

*Amrun was a paranoid lady. On an average Friday, she was crawled up in her nuclear bunker, far, far away from any sign of life.
But not today.

Today, Amrun was surrounding by bright lights and buffoons all around her, shrieking at the top of their voices. Why in the world had she decided to participate in this "real life mafia where the stakes are real and very dangerous and you may possible die - that's not a joke."?

Worst of all, she wasn't able to satiate her cravings ever since

the ban

.

The ban

had changed everything, and her withdrawal symptoms were only getting worse and worse.

She whimpered. She couldn't take it anymore, a tactical retreat back into her room was absolutely necessary here. She turned her back on the pokemon trainer riding a dragon that had been talking to her, and dashed straight for her room.

"Actual scum. Have we lunched amron yet?"

Amrun paid the trainer no mind. She burst into her room and shut the heavy door behind her. She let out a deep sigh and turned around.

Spoiler:

It was beautiful. Tears of raw emotion started flowing down Amrun's cheeks. She let them flow freely, not bothering to wipe them away. She reached under her bed and pulled out a trunk filled with dozens upon dozens of hammers and sickles. There was

no way

she was going to let those capitalist pigs ban and take away her prized possessions.
Amrun sat there, cradling the rusty tools in her arms as she beamed up at the Leader of the Worker's Party. They could go without her for a few hours.

Haven't you already posted this one?

[davesaz]

I am Cobble-Aligned.

[davesaz]

I had the pleasure of eating one of the featured dishes from a DDD episode in Albuquerque. I think the place was called Standard Diner or something like that.

[davesaz]

Ooh, a pagetop and even thousand on top of that. I keep doing this completely by accident

[davesaz]

I haven't studied shit for today ^_^

If you look closely the brown varies from day to day.
Try to make your posts a little less brown.

Yikes. So what is the meaning of this post, btw?

Probably he hates trees?

You said you hadn't studied any shit. I gave suggestions about it.

[davesaz]

That's...not a scumslip at all

How? Saying scum won't target me implies that he knows I am not scum.

Nah, the entire post was a series of if/then/else conditions. Cult and 3p being a thing and this game being huge, not being shot by scum implies exactly nothing.

[davesaz]

And the minority of people who don’t play in this meta don’t like it, and these people play mafia infrequently.

I would be a counter example to that.
I'd also be an example of someone who just adapts to what happens.

[davesaz]

Let's drop the posting frequency conversation.
That will actually help with lowering the posting frequency.

[davesaz]

TrueSoulEnergy, don’t execute Vorkuta. I need him alive, please.

Eh?

[davesaz]

TrueSoulEnergy, don’t execute Vorkuta. I need him alive, please.

Eh?

There’s zero chance Scum Vorkuta makes it past me, and there’s zero chance that if Vorkuta was ever S/S with me that I don’t end up bussing him anyways.

I have actual case and reasoning for Doctor Drew to be scum, Vorkuta is townie from the Governor campaigning

That doesn't explain the "need him alive" part.

[davesaz]

Re 4554 I have a hard enough time conversing normally. Never have been able to RP worth a damn, sorry.
I am entertained by the RP that is going on.

[davesaz]

Wait. Many of you were in that game. Chenn, Rauth, KidAmn, Gobble. and even Bingle (albeit nominally)

Yo

[davesaz]

For some reason she'd double her efforts this evening. Even she doesn't understand why.

I had spotted several likely clues in the events of the previous evening, but this one was certainly the clearest.

A lot can be gleaned from the write up.

[davesaz]

I can’t tell who spilled something and who it got spilled on meaning which is which. Just a suggestion if your character matches the description in the writing then something may have affected you.

[davesaz]

That’s not an invitation to flap your lips prematurely btw. Pedit my previous post...

[davesaz]

It would be hilarious if Creature picked a slot that was predefined to be a creature.

[davesaz]

Doubtful that orcus is town given the NK flavor. But we won't know until someone flips with that.

[davesaz]

TSE, I think you are confusing flavor with ability.
EP is asking you why the flavor of your execute (written in the mod's reveal of the flip) looked like a spider (gooey gobs and strings).
I don't necessarily think that indicates spider but that's beside the point.

[davesaz]

now wrapped in the same white horror that grabbed her and the weapon not long before.

Actually looking back I guess I do agree. Unless there is something else that wraps things up in white stuff.

[davesaz]

My mummy, when she dresses up for halloween.
(not really but lol)

[davesaz]

I strongly doubt a spider role would be group scum. But a SK type is quite possible.

[davesaz]

Reminder that the 'who' part is RNG'd

Is this something we're supposed to know already?

[davesaz]

There was probably 100 pages of likely spam that I didn't read.

Pedit: TSE claimed to be one-shot.

[davesaz]

Ah, the tracker request thing. I would not recommend a tracker (if there even is one) responding to Vorkuta's thing unless he first says how it's helpful to town. Which wouldn't be recommended either, too much information out there too early helps scum decide NKs.

[davesaz]

Faulty memory, TSE mentioned 1-shot and his ability but it was about combining 1-shot gov with his ability.
I was more ok with that role thinking it was 1-shot than I am in general. Perhaps needs to go by the midpoint in numbers (when we're down to ~20).

Behaviorally TSE feels like a 3p wanting to prove himself useful. It feels to me like maybe there are goblins in the game and the role's wincon is to execute a goblin (or maybe all goblins dead). Goblins are presumably anti-town so it's a protown wincon. This might be like a 3p lyncher type role implemented as an executioner.

[davesaz]

@Korina That reads like you joined the game intending to actually play only if you got culted. Not an especially good look...

[davesaz]

Amazingly enough it looks like A50 is the only one who hasn't posted this game day.

[davesaz]

FL appears to have forgotten that bragging is a turn off for me.
Sadly that's just about the only new content in 5-6 pages that I had to catch up.

[davesaz]

@Amrun: yes or no only (don't give additional names!), did your list have more names some of whom have been ruled out?

[davesaz]

Who is OR?

[davesaz]

Nice, only 2 pages to catch up but I have a client meeting today. I will have limited posting ability and even more limited thinking ability until after work. Bottom of 226.

[davesaz]

Nice, only 2 pages to catch up but I have a client meeting today. I will have limited posting ability and even more limited thinking ability until after work. Bottom of 226.

Looks a bit like anchoring here. Noted for a later date.

What do you mean by anchoring?

[davesaz]

Oh, ask anyone who sees me often and they can confirm I'm transparent about rl impacts.

[davesaz]

I swear it happened

Oh well

I thought exactly the same thing, and found the same post that EP found. The power of juxtaposition I guess.

[davesaz]

I am willing to lynch Elements, as in a way they effectively tried to quick-hammer a slot.

A lynch a that point would've looked much worse on Titus than on me.

A scum flip looks great for either of you. This is assuming a town flip.

Very good point.

[davesaz]

And I'm back to 6 pages behind. This reminder to myself of where I'm reading from was posted at the bottom of 242.

[davesaz]

Hey, wasn't that guy speaking italican before?

[davesaz]

I certainly enjoyed it, sad to see it go. But there wasn't much doubt that something would come along that couldn't be handled that way.

[davesaz]

Anyway I'm still as fucking conflicted about the top three as ever.

Elements hasn't claimed right?

No. Not that I’m aware.

Which, shit.

UNVOTE: elements

I want the day to end but that’s stupid. I just got frustrated.

I think that Elements is far enough over 1/2 that this unvote wouldn't matter.

[davesaz]

I ate a slice of this earlier today at a work gathering.

Tonight I have to pick my daughter up at the airport -- it's an hour+40 each way.

[davesaz]

I think TSE is much more likely town than scum. I might (and in fact have in the past) act the same way if people treated me like this.
It is not at all unusual to not hammer someone you think is town, when there is time and opportunity to push scum instead.

Between Elements and Vorkuta, I think Vorkuta is more likely to be scum. Either one would be acceptable.

VOTE: Vorkuta

Pedit: I could be wrong but think I read that kill flavor is indicative in this game. It's a weeks-old memory of something that wasn't important to memorize.

[davesaz]

Titus

What about Titus?

[davesaz]

Much better than Vorkuta

I don't see a foundation for this idea in your iso, care to explain?

[davesaz]

VOTE: TSE

I don't care for the AtE, rapid position swaps and not reading.

Titus, I love you, darling, and I’m so sad you pulled scum.

I love you too and I'm sad you're pushing this wrong angle. Time and TSE's flip will tell me more about your alignment and motivations.

This post specifically is terrible

I see this kind of empty ooh that’s terrible shit all the time. What specifically about it?

[davesaz]

I don't need clues to scumhunt. It just wasn't important to me.

Knowing the likely source of each kill is pure gold. I thought you were better.

[davesaz]

ok Dave, who made the kills last night and why are we not lynching them?

I think the one that had Orcus flavor is from groupscum and the other one is SK or equivalent.
Doesn't help yet with who, but it tells us what to expect.
If there is a vig out there they should also have gleaned information from it.

The overall writeup has a bunch more information. I'm not the type of person who starts pointing out PRs so that's the most you're going to get right now.

[davesaz]

I suppose a vig could be described as a murder, but I'm betting it's not.

[davesaz]

Gonna mention again that if we don’t lynch tse today we’re literally saying that we’re fine with having a non-leashable executioner running around. Ceph may be buddying me but his point about b having faith in town killing roles is good after last night

I for one am completely comfortable with it for now.

[davesaz]

Menalque wanting a leash is very scummy.

[davesaz]

Execute power is functionally similar to a gated dayvig. The existence of a wagon over half being the gate. Restricting it to the top wagon lets scum vote up the town wagon to force the choice.

[davesaz]

Unofficial VC

TrueSoulEnergy (7) - pisskop, Firebringer, KidAmn, Menalque, Cephrir, Pink Ball, BBmolla
Vorkuta (8) - Nero Cain, Bingle, Almost50, Elements, chennisden, Gamma Emerald, davesaz, EspressoPatronum
Elements (8) - Wooper, Titus, gobbledygook, Dr Easy Bake, zoraster, Rautherdir, Untrod Tripod, AaronFrost
Titus (6) - Iconeum, Dongempire, TrueSoulEnergy, Flavor Leaf, Amrun, Miss Lynch
Menalque - Creature
Flavor Leaf - Vorkuta

[davesaz]

I’m p sure that unofficial VC is wildly incorrect

Here's what I based it on.
6766

TrueSoulEnergy (9) - pisskop, Firebringer, KidAmn, Menalque, Amrun, Cephrir, Pink Ball, AaronFrost, EspressoPatronum
Vorkuta (8) - Nero Cain, Bingle, BBmolla, Almost50, Elements, Untrod Tripod, chennisden, Gamma Emerald
Elements (6) - Wooper, Titus, gobbledygook, Dr Easy Bake, zoraster, Rautherdir
Titus - Iconeum, Dongempire, Miss Lynch
Menalque - Creature, Flavor Leaf
Flavor Leaf - Vorkuta
Menalque - TrueSoulEnergy

6777 Untrod votes Elements
xx6781 Miss Lynch v. TSE
6794 davesaz v Vorkuta
6801 AaronFrost vs Elements (8,8,8)
6822 TSE v Titus
6842 BBMolla TSE
6848 Flavor v Titus
6849 Amrun v Titus
6852 Miss Lynch v Titus
6858 EspressoPatronum v Vorkuta

[davesaz]

As far as I can tell, not voting: Pine, Korina, The Fonz, xofelf, RCEnigma, InsideJob711

Pedit: no problem, this many players is a real pain to keep track of. It's hard enough to get it right when I'm modding a mini and responsible for it.

[davesaz]

I think it's pretty telling that we have 4 wagons within 2 votes of each other, and enough scattered for yet another wagon the same size.
What it's telling is a little harder to figure out.

[davesaz]

Elements isn't the kill today.

Does that mean you TR Elements?
If so, why?

[davesaz]

That’s the starting Vc and changes. I didn’t repost the ending one which is above.
Pedit did you see the question?

[davesaz]

For korina the +2 was on elements. Elements is at 10. Might be fun pile some more if tse promises to not execute until claim or deadline.

[davesaz]

My tablet corrected the heck out of that. Not gonna fix,it’s close enough.

[davesaz]

Elements, if you're hired muscle why didn't you attempt to do your job? Even a null lurker or spammer would be better than nothing.
Being outed makes you a prime recruitment target, since it would essentially give the cult a factional kill.
That aspect of things makes the "people who can kill detector" a questionable role.

[davesaz]

Leave yourself out of the "we" and I might allow it.

[davesaz]

I'm gonna answer the question that I expect to come up from 7162 without even refreshing the page, using the quick reply. So I have no idea if anyone has even asked this, but...

I read Menalque as highly manipulative. I don't care how towny he feels himself to be, or how towny others feel him to be. He's too pushy at a point in the game that we don't know alignments yet. That's being manipulative, regardless of alignment, and I don't like it. Let things flow.

[davesaz]

I find dave’s progression very screwy and I think it’s weird he’s pushing at me given what he’s said

I've been calling you wrong. If you are interpreting that as scum it is a serious understanding problem.

[davesaz]

Reading at 298

[davesaz]

his belief in Orcus being groupscum

Orcus

followers

. The flavor indicates that the killer is a

follower

of Orcus.
Whether they actually are is unknown, I can only interpret the words as written in the flavor.

[davesaz]

Leave yourself out of the "we" and I might allow it.

I'm gonna answer the question that I expect to come up from 7162 without even refreshing the page, using the quick reply. So I have no idea if anyone has even asked this, but...

I read Menalque as highly manipulative. I don't care how towny he feels himself to be, or how towny others feel him to be. He's too pushy at a point in the game that we don't know alignments yet. That's being manipulative, regardless of alignment, and I don't like it. Let things flow.

I don’t really see how else you want me to interpret these posts?

Read the last 2 sentences again. They are all you need to know. I don't like manipulative play. The words "regardless of alignment" are there for a reason.

[davesaz]

Also, DD getting lynched over Vork d1 prob has something to do with it.

Because if there are two wagons, one of them must be on scum?

If Vork flips scum, lynch Ceph tmo.

This is a fake slip - "m" isn't even really close to "o" on the keyboard.

Titus is obviously scum.

I'd guess at that meaning tomorrow from the context. Why assume it's a typo?

[davesaz]

Ok Gamma you remember dial pad phones so you are on the 90s council but we do not grant you the rank of 90s kid

I worked on a phone system where the operator plugs the lines in. The serial number on the box was #1.

[davesaz]

10. Chemist1422 was sacrificed to Orcus! They were "The Webfoot" Gek: Cobble-Aligned Bodyguard

Umm seems pretty damn clear to me.

[davesaz]

Eh, maybe. I wouldn't normally interpret 3rd person stuff that way.

[davesaz]

Going strictly from memory, didn't Vorkuta imply he didn't even know what the ability was going to do for sure?

[davesaz]

Amrun you are seeming to say you know which player on the list it is.

[davesaz]

VOTE: Titus

[davesaz]

Dunno on vote moving. The mod said the unofficial vc looked right, and then the next official one didn't reflect changes that my unofficial did.
Could just be a mistake, you should bold the question and/or send a PM. I'll go ahead and do that to save time.

@MOD: zor and UT both say their vote is incorrect and it looks wrong when comparing their ISO to the VC, please check into it

[davesaz]

So just to verify the meaning in Spanish and English is the same right. Meaning you have something that is kinda like a kill but not really?

[davesaz]

Person a can’t vote person b.
Person c can change person a votes.
Person c can freeze person a votes.
Person c can surgically nullify person a votes. Making the old vote be what takes.

Thinking on possible mechanics... probably doesn’t tell us anything other than give person a ideas of how to manage it...

[davesaz]

Person a has a nonpublic vote mechanism... ie can change their vote privately. For completeness this must be considered.

[davesaz]

6 pages to read already and it's 3 in the freakin morning.
Taking my daughter to the airport, coming home and maybe sleeping some more. Marking my spot at bottom of 323.

I don't see anything from the flips that shows InsideJob's statement to be false... can you explain further?

[davesaz]

Reading bottom of 339 and there are 352 pages.
How does Bingle result say anything about FL?

[davesaz]

And an accidental pagetop, heh.

[davesaz]

Keeping up not gonna happen. Skipping from 356 and checking what’s current.

[davesaz]

explain to me why you saying that i should effectively be ignored and i'm just as good as not playing the game whatsoever should not be taken personally

I'm waaay behind in my catch up, but this back and forth caught my eye.

Regardless of how well they're doing, 3p should not be town leaders. It's a basic principle. I don't know why you'd take it personally.

[davesaz]

Wow, and it was actually silent when my post landed.
VOTE: wooper

[davesaz]

Kidamn you're claiming jk right? Rauth targeted night 1 and FL night 2?

Nobody has an opinion about Kid claiming rauth was JKed?

Vague memories of a different game where lie detector not being an "action" and therefore not blockable.
I have noted the comments about when this game was designed, so therefore place no significant emphasis on likely/unlikely.

[davesaz]

I killed creature

VOTE: Elements

Creature was "Sacrificed to the Orcus". That has happened to 2 other players before, and yet you claim you have NOT killed anyone on N2. It thus follows that you're either lying here (about killing Creature) or that it's actually a factional kill and someone else did the kill on N2.

Looks like selective reading here, though it's not unusual given the number of pages to read.
If there was a crosskill the first submitted one wins in terms of what flavor is reported.

[davesaz]

Caught up, looks like I'm just in time to catch twilight?

[davesaz]

I'm at the bottom of 399, just saw the FBI agent claim.

I have to drive for ~4 hours round trip to get my daughter from the airport. There are additional scheduled activities tonight and for the next 3 days. I will do what I can but 15 pages behind already and I expect it to grow faster than I can read it.

[davesaz]

Someone's concerned I'm cult leader? Inconceivable!

I made a post that's lie detectable a while back. Happy to do so again if/when needed.
I can claim enough flavor that a flavor cop can tell that my post is truthful, but I can't claim exact flavor for a reason that would become obviously detrimental to town if I did...

How town is going to use me to win the game:
Give me a logic graph of truthful information. Once it reaches critical mass, I'll solve. You may give me partial information for partial solves.

It doesn't have to be graph form, that's just a figure of speech.

Pointers to information are acceptable though it will help if it isn't a sliver of info inside a gigantic set of posts.

Until then, kindly don't bug me. I'll continue using my other weapon (my vote) to get wagons closer to hammer. Who's the lynch today?

[davesaz]

@Dave: Solve?

That's a massive amount of information type thing, but yeah maybe. I did notice it. Don't have time tonight to do data reduction though, going to my son's concert. Without specifically casting any shade, if there are any inaccuracies that anyone notices, please point them out and have it corrected.

[davesaz]

@bb under no circumstances should you post my flavor info openly. Trust me that something bad is likely to happen if you do.

[davesaz]

Is this a threat or is it a side effect of your role?

Not a threat. More a side effect of the knowledge. Requires some dot connecting but it's not a huge leap.

[davesaz]

If there is any danger motivating could double cult recruit in the presence of redirection (did I see something about redirection, I think so... ), do we want it holstered instead?

[davesaz]

Oh, duh. Thanks.

[davesaz]

Oh that's spicy. Need to refresh my memory of what that role does.

[davesaz]

A Nexus with a kill, really?
Town aligned nexus is considered to be anti-town / negative utility, though some of the badness goes away once revealed. Someone having a result on it is pretty shady.

[davesaz]

My flavour is that I've been summoned by some dude to go round and stab people for them. If I stab enough people they're all happy and like "cool, thanks bro you're free to do as you wish" at which point, being the knight of death, I continue to stab people. If I die before I've stabbed enough people the dude that summoned me goes "aw man! that death night dude was useless, now I have to go round and stab the people I wanted him to stab" and becomes an SK. Pretty simple stuff.

Do you have control over your targets?
Sorry if this is asked & answered, and yes please repeat the answer if it was.

[davesaz]

From the wiki description, the nexus role is opposite of lightning rod with random targets. Instead of drawing roles to it, it pushes them away. Some role targets the nexus, that action is randomly redirected to another player. Multiple actions -> multiple retargets, each random. Since the targeting is random, the expected result of including such a role is chaos.

I agree with A50 that it should be impossible to get an investigative result. What's being missed is that the investigation would be redirected so the result is on a random player.
In the case of the nexus claim being true, it proves the existence of a SK role but doesn't identify who.

If the nexus claim is fake then the investigation is valid and Elements is SK. Who claimed first?

If the discussion is a distraction, what's it a distraction from? Iconeum lynch?

[davesaz]

ooh, shiny
VOTE: iconeum

[davesaz]

Went to see Rise of Skywalker. I liked it except for the overabundance of very short scenes in certain sections. My sister-in-law thought it strayed too far from the original.

Unless someone is a sextuple voter, DEB isn't anywhere near L-1.
I know that I owe some graph analysis.

[davesaz]

01. Pine - Motivator (Confirmed to exist)
09. BBmolla - Flavor Cop (Confirmed to Exist)
19. Pink Ball -- INNOCENT CHILD (Confirmed to exist)
23. RCEnigma - Messenger (Confirmed to Exist)
32. gobbledygook - Friendly Neighbor (Confirmed to Exist)
26. Elements - SK (Confirmed via night result and ML claim)

02. Untrod Tripod - PI
08. Rautherdir - Lie Detector
15. Bingle - FBI Agent
17. xofelf - Knows number of cult
25. Miss Lynch - Backup SK, makes SK viable to win with town.
34. chennisden - Faith Healer
28. pisskop - Random JoaT, flavor meshes
38. KidAmn - JK

18. Gamma Emerald (Not Cult N1)
33. Cephrir (Not Cult N2)

21. Dr Easy Bake
24. davesaz
36. Almost50
40. EspressoPatronum

I'm not sure if I missed any claims. If I did, please share. I think EP was confirmed via something, but I'm not sure what. Of category 2, KA can be confirmed to exist via targeting someone who has a tangible night result. (Myself, perhaps?) Xof, ML, Chen, and pk have minor equity as cult leader/scum. DEB, Dave, A50, EP similar.

The list is helpful. It's a reasonable assumption that proven night action roles (along with certain alignment locked roles like IC) can't be CL.

[davesaz]

Unless CL was provided multi-act to prevent using this capability to POE. Were games that easy to massclaim break back in the days before I joined?

[davesaz]

People who are pushing A50: why is a50 scum? I think he is being quieter than usual, but is that scummy for him?

This is very much worth looking into.
BTW I've been useless mostly because every time I try to spend more than 5 minutes reading the game one of my family knocks on my door and wants me to do something. IN FACT it just happened again.

[davesaz]

People who are pushing A50: why is a50 scum? I think he is being quieter than usual, but is that scummy for him?

This is very much worth looking into.

If you think A50 is being quieter than normal then I don't understand that at all. He looks pretty standard to me and pretty town.
Who should I look at for pushing on him?

[davesaz]

01. Pine - Motivator (Confirmed to exist)
09. BBmolla - Flavor Cop (Confirmed to Exist)
19. Pink Ball -- INNOCENT CHILD (Confirmed to exist)
23. RCEnigma - Messenger (Confirmed to Exist)
32. gobbledygook - Friendly Neighbor (Confirmed to Exist)
26. Elements - SK (Confirmed via night result and ML claim)

02. Untrod Tripod - PI
08. Rautherdir - Lie Detector
15. Bingle - FBI Agent
17. xofelf - Knows number of cult
25. Miss Lynch - Backup SK, makes SK viable to win with town.
34. chennisden - Faith Healer

28. pisskop - Random JoaT, flavor meshes

38. KidAmn - JK

18. Gamma Emerald (Not Cult N1)
33. Cephrir (Not Cult N2)

21. Dr Easy Bake
24. davesaz
36. Almost50
40. EspressoPatronum

I'm not sure if I missed any claims. If I did, please share. I think EP was confirmed via something, but I'm not sure what. Of category 2, KA can be confirmed to exist via targeting someone who has a tangible night result. (Myself, perhaps?) Xof, ML, Chen, and pk have minor equity as cult leader/scum. DEB, Dave, A50, EP similar.

Do you think two JOAT in the game?

[davesaz]

I think someone questioned InsideJob's hider shot conflicting with DEB being hider. Can't find the post now to quote it.
The post that IJ claimed the hide in was the one that failed the lie detector check. So it isn't a conflict with DEB's claim.

[davesaz]

Hope your son does well.

Has there been discussion on what the bar being closed means?
Likewise the two dudes fighting to a draw on multiple nights?

[davesaz]

Not especially happy that gobble outed that. I was kinda hoping to balance on the point of being neither so town that scum would want to kill me, nor so scummy that a vig or SK would.

[davesaz]

One thing I'm not sure of, I've seen weak modifier that dies on scum but not on 3p, and a variant that dies on "not same alignment". Obviously the 2nd one would mean that DEB's claim is false, but how would we know it's not the 1st one? Don't get me wrong here, I think DEB is a bit off by play anyway, but I like to have as much info as possible.

Also can you remind me who else hasn't been eliminated as possible CL? We need to get this right, and it's probably down to a point where a mostly full graph is possible.

[davesaz]

I think that was corrected already, no?

[davesaz]

UNVOTE:

Purely to keep us away from L-1 for now since Rauth is a hammerer of some sort apparently. The above discussion needs to happen before we progress or we're just going to be working at cross purposes here.

The count was L-3 on this post.

[davesaz]

I have no night actions.

[davesaz]

My previous post -- In case we're still needing lie detector posts. Haven't been 100% sure on whether they are still useful or not.

Also, I think I agree with UT not outing results being worth paying attention to.

[davesaz]

someone wanted information, do we have it?

[davesaz]

JK me to keep me from being NK'd is an option -- with no active ability we lose nothing and gain everything. The only place I'm gonna appear in night flavor is if someone tries to act on me.
Given the way Gobble went after DEB I'm thinking EP's 2nd interpretation is right. But there's no way to tell for sure so I think Gobble gets lynched eventually just to be sure.
With CL gone I think we need to lynch a killer. KPN is now our biggest threat right?

[davesaz]

A50 it never occurred to you to claim something that would actually get you NK'd, like an investigative or protective?

[davesaz]

I appreciate not being required to stand out and become a target. This role is an absolute nightmare to play.

[davesaz]

Remember to not let me get killed.
VOTE: Rautherdir

[davesaz]

Everyone wants to lunch gobble. I think it's a psychological slip or something.

So let me see if I have this straight. Gobble is cult, pissed off at getting recruited and caught, yeah I can see that. But he can't be blatantly going against wincon.
He's trying to keep the cult wincon going by pointing at me. Y'all already thought I might be cult so he's obviously trying to get it closer to a win by egging you on.
I'm still a BP and we can't risk a NK going my way and losing a day's lynch. Stick to the plan.

VOTE: Bingle

[davesaz]

I consider it to have been fun-ish but thrice cursed.
Beloved princess, really?
Culted, really? (that's on DEB not the mod)
Flavor name Princess Peach in a D&D game, really?

I'm not sure how to feel about team naming.