Guns & Roses III [Game over]
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Creature, what was this? Did you have a legit scumread on AF (which I don't see how) or were you just trying to get a wagon going?
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DogWatch Goon
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If you think menal townslipped and considering that he did pretty much the same thing in post 86 that you're voting sal for, couldnt sal just as easily be town?In post 170, Iconeum wrote:Posting stuff like 'waiting for smt to happen' while having a scumread that ur not pushing or engaging with is mehhhh-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Sorry, I was meaning to direct that to creature but forgot the quote.
@Creature, you've got Sal, alim, and AF as your scumreads but from what I can tell, no explanations whatsoever. The only interaction from alim was a vote and then you started scumreading him. Just trying to understand where your head is at because I think you're usually one of the easier reads.-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Personally his reaction to Creature (post 230) I kinda agreed with, but I think him moving to Ico right after was weird.In post 264, GuiltyLion wrote:the case is he's making scummy posts, especially with how he reacted to and exaggerated Creature's posts around him and the way he's shading Ico for townreading Menalque-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Can you elaborate?In post 275, Amrun wrote:VOTE: AaronFrost
His posts read very forced. His progression on creature also sucks.-
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DogWatch Goon
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not necessarily but post 176 seems inconsistent with his scumreading of AF earlier. Maybe it's nothing, but I want to hear from him.In post 280, Amrun wrote:Is non transparent reads scummy?-
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DogWatch Goon
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Do you agree that AF had any sort of point against Creature though? Since you word it as an offense? I do see what you're saying about AF tbfIn post 281, Amrun wrote:He calls out creature for something and then commits the exact same offense very quickly by voting Iconeum, who is, IMO, lower hanging fruit than Creature.-
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DogWatch Goon
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This is exactly what I couldn't put my finger on when Amrun answered my questions last night. I think if you're going to label what Creature did as the "exact same offense" then you'd be scumreading him too regardless of who AF voted for. The more I think about it, AF seems more and more town and Amrun/Creature are looking more sus. There's been two instances of Amrun turning suspicion away from Creature, once when she voted almidia for his vote on Creature and then again in post 284. Like I'm having a hard time articulating it exactly but it seems to come from the perspective of someone who knows Creature's posts were kinda scummy, acknowledges it because she has to, but doesn't want to follow up on it.In post 330, Menalque wrote:
Also as I look at this it actually seems kind of perspective slippy? Like calling AFF out for capitalising on “obvious town mistakes” sounds a little too much like she knows they’re town, esp considering her null read on icon? Plus calling icon the most likely mislynchIn post 285, Amrun wrote:In other words, I can very easily see AF’s posting as scum motivated; attempt to capitalize on obvious town mistakes, but place vote on most likely mislynch. Obviously that’s untrue if Ico ends up flipping scum. I’m null on him currently.
VOTE: Amrun-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.
Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.
Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?
If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.
@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?
I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.
UNVOTE: amrun
Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.
@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.-
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DogWatch Goon
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Im uneasy about meanlque.
But Creature is looking worse to me. I’ve always known Creature to be highly game-solvey as town and lacking in motivation as scum (again, it’s been years but that’s what I remember) and I don’t understand how his posts in this game come from town motivation.
@amrun, why do you think a player who sloppily put you at L-1 with no explanation is a lower priority? Genuine question, not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing.
Id vote creature but don’t think we’re getting a creature lynch today. Not opposed to GL though. I know he’s a good player and his vote looks uncharacteristic.-
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DogWatch Goon
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I took it to mean that he thinks the wagon has good odds of flipping scum (amrun), not necessarily that scum is on the wagon itself. So I’m not sure he’s really being contradictory here.In post 584, AaronFrost wrote:
Why exactly did he join the wagon anyways? He makes it clear that his read on alimdia is much stronger but then joins the wagon after saying scum is on it because... why? How is he reading Amrun? He never says.In post 489, GuiltyLion wrote:I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi.Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.
VOTE: Amrun
Earlier he also stated he townreads Icon, Mena, Dogwatch and Creature. Then before he hops on he includes me and Datisi in his townreads. That's literally the entire wagon right there.-
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DogWatch Goon
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@alimdia, I missed it but I also don’t think it was ever relevant. You accused SS of posting neutral fluff but I don’t think my posts compare. Low output yes but I haven’t been neutral. I don’t scumread SS at all fwiw.
My unease about menal isn’t strong but it’s there, like I’m a little skittish about how widely townread he is over something that I found NAI and I think it’s been easy for him to coast on it. I joined his wagon but I don’t like it in retrospect. It does feel like a scum-driven wagon unlike the GL wagon.
I’m much happier here. VOTE: GL
I’m also remaining pretty adamant that this is Creature’s scum game, maybe I’m using old meta but I just disagree with amrun and texcat on him looking town.-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch
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DogWatch Goon
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Also hypothetical but wouldn’t that be a really easy way for scum to get town points?In post 619, Something_Smart wrote:
Would it count if I'm townreading you for your insistence that the supposed townslip wasn't towny?In post 617, Menalque wrote:I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?
Purely hypothetical question, of course.-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Actually I take it back. THIS is the most opportunistic vote in the game.
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Is this where your scumread on DDL came from?In post 643, Menalque wrote:
Okay so how about voting ddl with me thenIn post 637, DogWatch wrote:Actually I take it back. THIS is the most opportunistic vote in the game.
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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Datisi and alim mostly.In post 655, Menalque wrote:Such as who?
Also u should reread my ISO because I’m p clearly one of them, as I already said why ddl is scum before you talked about his opportunistic vote
I’m looking back on your ddl stuff now.-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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And by Alex I mean Aaron, jesus christ I need sleepIn post 663, DogWatch wrote:I meant alex not alim sorry
DDL’s jump from GL to texcat looked even more like bored town to me. like it’s bad but it just doesn’t appear to come from a scum perspective imo-
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DogWatch Goon
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You’re misunderstanding. I DID scumread amrun at the time. I’m saying I don’t love that vote in retrospect.In post 668, AaronFrost wrote:
Who were you scumreading at the time then? If you didn't like the Amrun wagon then there's no reason to hop onto it and you could've attempted to lead us elsewhere if that's how you really felt. It feels like you took the safer option here.In post 636, DogWatch wrote:There’s nothing odd about it. I didn’t love my amrun vote (as I vocalized) and left that wagon. AFTER that, GL became one of my better scum reads and I felt much better about that vote. I don’t see why this concerns you.-
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DogWatch Goon
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My problem right now is that my two top scum reads don't make much sense together. GL and Creature BOTH being scum seems really unlikely considering how fast they jumped the amrun wagon one after the other, and I know they're both better players than to do something that sloppy and obvious if the efforts were scum-coordinated.-
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DogWatch Goon
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In post 700, GuiltyLion wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is all town and still a good wagon btwIn post 688, FakeGod wrote:amrun [4] - Datisi, Iconeum, GuiltyLion, Creature
@GL, what exactly was your progression here from town!creature to scum!creature considering that creature hasn't posted in between these two posts? You say he dropped off, but he literally never said anything after you townread him.In post 788, GuiltyLion wrote:Being honest I haven't really looked at Creature much since I got some slight town vibes from his early game but it's true he's dropped off a lot since then. I think he's less towny than Doolittle and Menalque I'm willing to hear your case there but I feel you're off on that one.-
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DogWatch Goon
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Yep, this is the old meta I was referring to a while back.In post 809, Something_Smart wrote:
Being generally absent is (or at least used to be) a scumtell for Creature in a way that it's not for most people.In post 805, Menalque wrote:Tell me this: for anything creature has done that’s scummy, has ddl not done the same thing but worse?-
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DogWatch Goon
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My hesitancy to vote him centers partly on questioning whether or not that meta is old/outdated, as I alluded to at some point earlier, and partly due to lack of reactions from him to anything that’s recently happened. You even said yourself that his inactivity is difficult to evaluate so I’m not following why you’d expect me to switch votes when there’s so much ambiguity at play anyway.In post 962, GuiltyLion wrote:Damn I forgot that Dogwatch comment about Creature meta earlier in the game, good recall. That does make her hesitance to vote him look a lot worse-
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DogWatch Goon
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Talk to me about this please.In post 954, Something_Smart wrote:I mean I don't particularly think he is either but I think he's the best out of the current wagon options.-
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DogWatch Goon
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I literally just told you why; I was torn on this being outdated meta or not. I haven't played on this site in two years.In post 977, GuiltyLion wrote:
I'm not understanding how you can say you think this is his scum meta, yet be less certain about voting him than voting me. You really think I'm still more likely to be scum than Creature based off that one Amrun vote despite all the rest of the effort/engagement I've put in since?In post 969, DogWatch wrote:My hesitancy to vote him centers partly on questioning whether or not that meta is old/outdated, as I alluded to at some point earlier, and partly due to lack of reactions from him to anything that’s recently happened. You even said yourself that his inactivity is difficult to evaluate so I’m not following why you’d expect me to switch votes when there’s so much ambiguity at play anyway.
Like if I had just not posted at all and similarly had a "lack of reactions to anything", would that make melesssuspicious in your mind?
Otherwise I think you make a fair point and I've been close-minded about your alignment really.-
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DogWatch
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DogWatch Goon
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Would you say activity is scummier than no activity?In post 1064, alimdia wrote:
I'm actually happy to push lurkers out because if they're scum free win, if they're town then I don't want them in lylo too.In post 1057, Salamence20 wrote:
Do you townread creature or is it more “I dont vote lurkers”In post 1050, alimdia wrote:
if creature is on L1, and deadline is <12 hours away.In post 1033, Salamence20 wrote:Almida whats it going to take to get you on creature?
Creature is v similar to textcat, DDR and DW. Idk how he got pushed over them.
But this game has a couple of vigs at least to take the lurkers out.
GL just seems more dodgy, with my recent posts explaining why.-
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DogWatch Goon
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More the first, a little the second.In post 1062, Something_Smart wrote:
Dislike as in disagree with, or dislike as in scumread?In post 1060, DogWatch wrote:I dislike menal's ddl push fwiw-
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DogWatch Goon
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Not necessarily, because I'm fencesitting between GL/Creature over this and want to hear opinions.In post 1067, Iconeum wrote:
is this directed specifically to alim?In post 1066, DogWatch wrote:Would you say activity is scummier than no activity?-
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What do you think of post 977?In post 1071, Iconeum wrote:Like, it's not scum indicative to lurk in itself-
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DogWatch Goon
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Then what are you seeing in GL's recent posting to make you think he's town?In post 1076, Iconeum wrote:
That's true, but it's not allignment indicativeIn post 1074, alimdia wrote:No activity is more anti-town than activity.-
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DogWatch Goon
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Where is that? I just ISOd him and saw no such thing.In post 1207, GuiltyLion wrote:and also to reiterate in case y'all missed it in game #1 there's little to no evidence that Creature thought AF was "obvious" town. "Town" sure, but in his last post sequence he went from saying one post was fake to another being "probably" genuine. I'd say Creature is worth lynching today for that alone, tbh, it doesn't feel genuine.-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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@GL you have lately been displaying a kind of transparency that is looking more townie to me, I think you’ve been very levelheaded in defending yourself from an aggressive wagon and the more I read you the more my mind frames your posts as town perspective, if that makes sense. Your willingness to be wrong about alimida looks town considering the spot you were in at the time, I think scum would usually handle that differently?
UNVOTE: GL-
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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DogWatch Goon
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this is just wifom thoughIn post 1379, Menalque wrote:Find it weird that I’m not dead in a world of ddl scum-
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maybe i'm misreading 1373 tonallyIn post 1394, Menalque wrote:
I don’t think this is being defensive but okIn post 1385, DogWatch wrote:menal weirdly defensive of an open question-
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DogWatch Goon
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it's kinda wifom but this made me townread aaron a little more since forgetting scum could pick gun would be more of a town perspectiveIn post 1391, Datisi wrote:Scum can pick Guns, Aaron
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