Twice Baked Wrestling: Brawl at the Bakery! {Game Over}

[Battle Mage]

Cena and Savage are both good guys, believe that!

Kublai Khan - not sold either way.

I'm always mildly suspicious of people who say an early dispute is "town vs town". So let's open with

Vote: Wondertank

[Battle Mage]

So basically I like Battle Mage as town atm.

YES!!!! I've finally nailed it!!!

Seriously, this never happens.

I'm so happy I'm going to

Unvote

, at least until tomorrow when I read everything properly.

[Battle Mage]

I’m Randy Orton. I must RKO (hammer) out of nowhere or I’ll die. I have a neighborhood with (Randy) Savage, assumingely we’re the Randy neighborhood.

I have a finisher I can use once. I can use what is called “The Punt”.

Very plausible

Vote: Flavour Leaf

[Battle Mage]

Ok, now that you realised that you were projecting your reasoning, why are you still scum reading them?

It's that early game gut read. I've seen that scum style of being so annoying that people stop paying attention to you. I've done it before too.

I read something about misinterpreting, when has that ever happened?

Post 32 where they claim I'm "back-pedaling" and "spinning". It's eye-roll worthy, but it's more than anyone else has done.

I can follow their reasoning though.

My head hurts as I was playing 6D chess trying to bait you while also figuring the whole interaction out. My honest feeling on you as of right now is that you're probably town, if not for how you're reacting to everything, for the fact that every piece of information that you're letting out in each new post is adding to your story rather than untangling it to an obvious lie that catches a scum, and I find that more town indicative, if you fabricated such a convoluted thought process on the spot, then you're a fucking god of a wolf.

I think you're both town, ladies.

~inso

HA! Found scum.

VOTE: Wondertank

[/quote]

Haha this is exactly what I thought when I read it!

So basically I like Battle Mage as town atm.

YES!!!! I've finally nailed it!!!

Seriously, this never happens.

I'm so happy I'm going to

Unvote

, at least until tomorrow when I read everything properly.

what are you excited about?

Someone thinking I'm town, in any game, ever. Was that not obvious??

[Battle Mage]

So basically I like Battle Mage as town atm.

YES!!!! I've finally nailed it!!!

Seriously, this never happens.

I'm so happy I'm going to

Unvote

, at least until tomorrow when I read everything properly.

Battle Mage???? Where have you been???????

So sad you drew scum in this game tho

also



what even was edited by the mod here?

I thought I had a funny remark, and was gonna quote it, hit the wrong button, didn't realize it was an edit and submitted anyway. The second time was me fixing it immediately. Then I didn't feel like saying something after that.

So, I’m kind of disappointed in the hydra prejudice. The hostility is not warranted. I’ve even been approached and complained to about a post violating site rules. Now I can give the poster the benefit of the doubt because I could see it as a light-hearted way to just show their opinions. I have no way of knowing if the poster will continue to act out of spite for hydras. But, just to be safe, from this point on, if I see a continuous stream of voting or other negative actions because someone is a hydra, I’ll have to actually do something. I’ve been reported for this same exact thing, I understand.

[Battle Mage]

Oops...managed to post the quotes I wanted to respond to, without the responses! Mod, feel free to delete and save my blushes!

So basically I like Battle Mage as town atm.

YES!!!! I've finally nailed it!!!

Seriously, this never happens.

I'm so happy I'm going to

Unvote

, at least until tomorrow when I read everything properly.

Battle Mage???? Where have you been???????

So sad you drew scum in this game tho

I actually didn't! I'm town this time! Good to see you again though, 9 years it has been I think! How's life? <3

also



what even was edited by the mod here?

I thought I had a funny remark, and was gonna quote it, hit the wrong button, didn't realize it was an edit and submitted anyway. The second time was me fixing it immediately. Then I didn't feel like saying something after that.

So, I’m kind of disappointed in the hydra prejudice. The hostility is not warranted. I’ve even been approached and complained to about a post violating site rules. Now I can give the poster the benefit of the doubt because I could see it as a light-hearted way to just show their opinions. I have no way of knowing if the poster will continue to act out of spite for hydras. But, just to be safe, from this point on,

if I see a continuous stream of voting or other negative actions because someone is a hydra

, I’ll have to actually do something. I’ve been reported for this same exact thing, I understand.

How many hydras do we have in the game? Surely from a gameplay standpoint, voting for someone who is a hydra is perfectly permissible within the rules?

[Battle Mage]

Have to say this is the most hostile game I’ve been in.
Nothing much else to input.

Yep, respect that.

You are the toxic one.

Replace me or Cena and Savage. I'm not playing with this account who won't reveal his identity and acts like he is better than everyone else

I love ya Scotmany, but I don't see why the identity of the hydras matters that much. Sure, you can't check out their past games, but the tricky bit is the fact it's 2 different people, and so harder to read properly. But I do wish everyone would just get along.

Also having the audacity to complain to the mod when they are the asshole has honestly moved this beyond something I'm willing to let go.

I'm pretty sure they complained about my RVS on them, so it's on me for not thinking through before making that joke

As for their anonymity - I'm here to play mafia, not meta simulator, so I will judge them for what they do, not for who they are. Sometimes people just want to play mafia without being haunted by their past

Yeah agree with that.

In terms of reads, I don't have much so far. Gut says Wondertank is scum, but also not keen to lynch one of the most engaged and productive players on Day 1. I'll have a quick skim again and throw a vote somewhere.

[Battle Mage]

I mean Hiplop, Pisskop and KuroiXHF have all said nothing so far. Could easily be scum sensibly staying out of the carnage.

I'll

Unvote, Vote: KuroiXHF

On the grounds that he's the only one of the 3 who gave an impression they cared.

[Battle Mage]

Reck is town

He thinks you're town too. But is also voting for you. What do you reckon about that?

[Battle Mage]

Someone thinking I'm town, in any game, ever. Was that not obvious??

not really? I've never played with you so there's not any way for me to know.

Well I mean, I did imply it about as clearly as I could! Obviously subtlety isn't going to work with

at least one of

you!

*claps for Espresso* Ah damnit!

Anyone else notice in the last vote-count Lavender had a mystery vote attributed to nobody?

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage

I take issue with you not having a stand on KK and Cena still when you voted us for my read on both of them, and you had a null on KK. I felt as though as a town you'd go back to the exchange and update your read on us accordingly.

a) Why'd you not do that?
b) If you thought that it was so "obvious" that the reason you were excited was us town reading you when you said most of the time you were getting scum read, shouldn't that have made you double down on us based on paranoia for going on with the "TMI" chain you were pushing on us? Why'd you full 180? I feel as though a player that is predominantly scum read in their games would get psyched out at a town read, especially when the person that issues the town read was accused of TMIng by the initial player.

~insomnia

Excellent, thanks for this! What is TMIing sorry?

I think you're reading too much into it probably. Firstly, this is not a 'typical' game, so you're right I haven't been doing the world-famed patented BM scumhunting. I was just trying to be funny with my excitement about you town-reading me, and I was jokingly unvoting you for it - it wasn't a 180 at all. I think your logic is probably right, but I really was just being silly! I feel like that's quite welcome with the start we've had...

I will doubtless go back to our exchange later, rest assured. In the meantime, I'm going to chase the lurkers a bit!

[Battle Mage]

so, people who aren't Wondertank and C&S: what is your take on the gamestate and what are your reads on people other than those two?

This is a great question. I think the game is in a bleak state because we have too many lurkers, and we need some prods/modkills to liven it up!

Reck is town

He thinks you're town too. But is also voting for you. What do you reckon about that?

I reckon Reckoner needs to fix that but I like read 3 of his posts around the thx babw time to UT and thought he was town from it

You what??

[Battle Mage]

Can you re-word it maybe? I don't understand what you're saying in it!

[Battle Mage]

Anyone else notice in the last vote-count Lavender had a mystery vote attributed to nobody?

Is that an accident?

Your second post was to ask that? Have you read the thread? Don't blame you if not, but give me some opinion to work with!

[Battle Mage]

DGB is a very good player JC, always cottons on quick! Do you share my view Hiplop could EASILY be scum here?

[Battle Mage]

To John Cena's Question: I don't use meta strats because that's too hard for me...

As for my mysterious vote. Well, it's not a mistake.

Oh wow, I'm a genius. Now for the flavour speculation about which wrestler would get an extra vote!

Speaking of flavour, flavourleaf scum is definitely possible. But I'm way more excited about Hiplop right now, as you can tell - let's get some views!

[Battle Mage]

I do think at this point that ~2 scum have been sidelining and hiplop does fit that, but I don't know how to separate hiplop from pisskop, kuroi, or EPJ at this point though and I doubt everyone who hasn't entered the game yet is scum

-JC

Hiplop teasing steak, could be Otis (seems unlikely) or Vince (probably not town).

Just seen your vote, I like your style!

Unvote, Vote: Hiplop

[Battle Mage]

What did you mean by hard chainsaw on reck/gob?

I think you're both town, but if I'm wrong and one of you is scum, the other is definitely town

Not sure if that's correct use of word 'chainsaw' but that's what I meant

-JC

it isn't but its ok

You're not voting for Hiplop… are you chicken!?

[Battle Mage]

To John Cena's Question: I don't use meta strats because that's too hard for me...

As for my mysterious vote. Well, it's not a mistake.

Oh wow, I'm a genius. Now for the flavour speculation about which wrestler would get an extra vote!

Speaking of flavour, flavourleaf scum is definitely possible. But I'm way more excited about Hiplop right now, as you can tell - let's get some views!

This speculation seems, unnecessary?

Do you think flavor = alignment?

No I don't, because I literally read the rules. But also to note, I was kidding, and don't think giving away what is going on with an extra vote is going to be a significant detriment to the town in any case.

Starting not to like BM.

Really? What did I ever do to you?? Genuine question, please answer.

hiplop breadcrumbed a role already, i'd chill on that.

That's literally why I was voting for him. But I'll take your advice, because....

Dont you really hate votes without reasons or something or am I remembering someone else

The weak response from flubber to getting an unexplained vote. Let's see what we can achieve with:

Unvote, Vote: flubber

This is a bunch of useless busywork made to look like playing the game

Good observation. Flubber is also scum.

I'm already there! Are you scum too?

[Battle Mage]

This is a bunch of useless busywork made to look like playing the game

You aren't far off, taking a bit of an observational approach to this game.....at least intially. When I post alot I tend to get

mislynched

early.

I wouldn't call it useless though.

And, if I could make an omgus-ish observation.....

What exactly have you done?

The fact you had to say mislynched, instead of lynched, is a little scummy. I think town would be more likely to just say lynched.

And the OMGUS response to being called useless, particular to someone who has been more useful, is also a little scummy.

So just so everyone is on the same page...
The Baker's last game had a secret third party that could scumside (and did scumside), so just be careful if we are approaching lylo situations :s

I came away from reading those 15 pages without any strong scumreads which is problem I will try again in the morning

Maybe I got my tinfoil hat on a bit early, but I was the third party in said game and was the person who brought up the possibility of a third party in said game.

Just so everyone is on the same page.

Pre Edit: Then you are giving me too much credit Chenn.

Also, are you a wrestling fan Chenn?

I don't follow wrestling particularly closely, so not really.

Ok, thought I picked up a soft claim.....but I will assume it was nothing to see.

Please do tell what you thought this soft claim was, as I don't see it.

[Battle Mage]

Why did you vote Wondertank in your first vote?
Why are you taunting people with your anonymity?
I'm guessing you're voting me for being a second vote on you. Confirm/deny?

For the record, I don't know who you are and I find being distracted with trying to figure out your identity to be a dumb distraction.

So don't try to figure out our IDENTITY and figure out our ALIGNMENT, since you literally can't see me!

Yeah, we're voting you for naked voting immediately after a policy lynch vote with no comment on the previous vote, BRO.

Now it seems like you're BACKPEDALED since you're re-spinning your vote as being about our OP.

But we're too OP FOR YOU BRO

-JOHN CENA

As lynch bajt as this is, I think i know the role and maybe alignment. I'm confident this is town.

They pinged me a little stronger than your team because they voted your team without any explanation. So it seems a little hypocritical.

I don't get it, what seems hypocritical out of this?

I was projecting my reasoning onto them.

This also rings me as town despite the badness of this.

I’m Randy Orton. I must RKO (hammer) out of nowhere or I’ll die. I have a neighborhood with (Randy) Savage, assumingely we’re the Randy neighborhood.

I have a finisher I can use once. I can use what is called “The Punt”.

I get the reference.

Orton feels like a third-party claim to me tbh.

I agree.

Also, I'm the best wrestler in the world and I highly suspect my role isn't random or is a very weird coincidence

You've narrowed this down by exactly 0 wrestlers.

About to go to bed but im here. Ill post in the morning

And I'm caught up to them.

This is not what I would expect town to be posting after lurking. Do you have no suspects?? And as with Doctor Drew, looking for crumbs which I don't think are actually there. Please take note, folks. KuroiXHF is SCUM.

[Battle Mage]

Bm doing the lord's work. I'm in on all those lunches after we lynch cena

Why Cena is scum?

Also, BM isn't doing lord's work, didn't his argument about Dre complaining about being mislynched often instead of saying lynched pinged you? Cause it sure did pinged me

It did pinged you?

Looking forward to hearing this explanation! (from you Ramcius, not Panzerjager by the way)

[Battle Mage]

Bm doing the lord's work. I'm in on all those lunches after we lynch cena

Why Cena is scum?

Also, BM isn't doing lord's work, didn't his argument about Dre complaining about being mislynched often instead of saying lynched pinged you? Cause it sure did pinged me

It did pinged you?

Looking forward to hearing this explanation! (from you Ramcius, not Panzerjager by the way)

What's wrong with saying that you're being mislynched for certain behavior? We aren't talking about ongoing game, where outcome isn't clear and saying "mislynch" instead of "lynch" is pretty hard slip, but about past games, where alignment is already known

You've sort of got it. There's an argument that saying "lynched" would be ambiguous on alignment, and provoke questions. Using the word "mislynch" to emphasise that lynching him is a mistake (when, as far as his point went, as you note, it didn't matter whether he was town or scum in those old games) is a bit overly cautious, and in my view could be a scum indicator for him.

It's really not the biggest thing to latch onto, so I'm still not clear why that did ping you, out of everything else here?

BM, why is the word mislynch a potential slip for Drew? A lynch on scum isn’t a mislynch. A lynch on town is a mislynch though

It's not a slip, I was suggesting the opposite - it's someone using language carefully, not natural perhaps. It's far from a robust argument, but it rings more scummy than town to me in this case.

[Battle Mage]

BM I think what you’re describing could be what is now called LAMIST (look at me I’m so town) where scum say things that townies might say in an attempt to look town

Look I’m the only one scumhunting
I always get mislynched
Etc

Excellent, thanks for the info!

Bm doing the lord's work. I'm in on all those lunches after we lynch cena

Why Cena is scum?

Also, BM isn't doing lord's work, didn't his argument about Dre complaining about being mislynched often instead of saying lynched pinged you? Cause it sure did pinged me

It did pinged you?

Looking forward to hearing this explanation! (from you Ramcius, not Panzerjager by the way)

What's wrong with saying that you're being mislynched for certain behavior? We aren't talking about ongoing game, where outcome isn't clear and saying "mislynch" instead of "lynch" is pretty hard slip, but about past games, where alignment is already known

You've sort of got it. There's an argument that saying "lynched" would be ambiguous on alignment, and provoke questions. Using the word "mislynch" to emphasise that lynching him is a mistake (when, as far as his point went, as you note, it didn't matter whether he was town or scum in those old games) is a bit overly cautious, and in my view could be a scum indicator for him.

Do you know that he was lynched as a scum in past games for similar behavior or you just guessing that he was lynched for doing this as both alignments? For all I know it might be just resentment for being ML'ed in past and being cautious now, when people bring it up

But whole point of my initial post was that Panzer readily agreed to everything you said, but the issue we discuss isn't that simple, gobble pitching in just reinforce this. So I want their opinion too, cause my initial feeling was that Panzer just skimmed your posts at best and agreeing with it is just for show

Ok I can believe that, although I think it's a pretty dull lead. Panzer-town might not actually have agreed with literally everything I said, but just felt the majority was along the right lines. Although it's the second nice thing he has said to me, so IGMEOY <3

[Battle Mage]

You thought because he said "the game", he was crumbing Triple H? Why? I don't really understand the motivation for most people to be crumbing, unless it can confirm their alignment. Flavour itself does not confirm alignment. But if it did, would I expect Triple H to be town, as you apparently did? No.

[Battle Mage]

You thought because he said "the game", he was crumbing Triple H? Why? I don't really understand the motivation for most people to be crumbing, unless it can confirm their alignment. Flavour itself does not confirm alignment. But if it did, would I expect Triple H to be town, as you apparently did? No.

Why are you so quick to assume what I am thinking?

I DIDN'T ASSUME ANYTHING. I'M JUST REPEATING WHAT YOU SAID, BACK TO YOU. with a modicum of incredulity.

[Battle Mage]

Gonna be out this evening, so if anyone could help get me up to speed with this shizzle that would be great.

Bumping this

You've made 5 posts, saying nothing, and you're badgering Egix for not posting? Daaaaamn, put that cop emoji away!

[Battle Mage]

Jesus Christ. I'm not going back through all of that with comments.

Hmmmm, 3 person per team is a no go

, I'm not sure about rest of you, but I have some conditions on my rolecard that makes some finishers to fail,

so I was thinking 4-5 person per team to ensure success of our vigs

Panzer is a bad lynch, no associations, we can't look for people, who pushed/defended him either due to how lynchbaity he is

How convenient.

Unvote, Vote: Ramcius

[Battle Mage]

Also, because it got lost in the shuffle, I'd like to bring up that cena claimed Mason w/o partner and used that as part of their excuse for directing basically all of the night actions and giving scum basically all of the information.

Can you elaborate on what important info was given for scum by Cena?

Literally every night action.

Panzer, why are you not voting for Ramcius after this? I can almost see him there, with a little notepad.

Confirm Vote: Ramcius

[Battle Mage]

Are you projecting or do you just have a victim narrative that nobody likes you?

I never called you toxic.

You just argued I made three people replace out when I made ZERO people replace out

Panzer is pushing a toxic bullshit lie and you just bought into it

KidAmn replaced out BECAUSE OF FUCKING PANZER as far as I can tell

Kublai Khan as far as I can tell replaced out 70% of Alisae and maybe like 20% me and 10% because of gamestate I'd guess

Scots replaced out because of my slot (because of things Savage said) but Panzer is trying to sell it as shit that I did

But hey congrats, you get your wish.

-JOHN FUCKING CENA

Well that escalated quickly.

With no disrespect to anyone in the game, I have decided from this experience that hydras are no Bueno.

VOTE: flubbernugget

I like your style, Dennis Chen.

OK Ramcius is town

No way!

Also flubbynugget must be scum too.

[Battle Mage]

ATTENTION REINA

Please claim your own role immediately.

Do not identify the roles of anybody else.

Do not read the thread before claiming.

[Battle Mage]

STEAK

This post is all of hiplop's iso.

I'd lynch that.

lynch all lurkers are u fucking dumb m8

OUCH. Ok I can live with this to get this day over with. Also if he's scum, I'm claiming that I was the first one to nail it!

Unvote, Vote: Hiplop

[Battle Mage]

Made guys, saying that we are prob scum.

I don't like the intersection on Kuro and DGB.

And I feel like DGB is pocketing Chenn, as I feel confident in Chenn-town.

I think you meant to say:

"And I feel like DGB is pocketing Chenn, let me get it on some of that action!"

To be clear, as the thread is getting long:

Ramcius is scum.
KuroiXHF is probably scum.
Hiplop could be scum - I don't buy the Otis claim without an actual role.
Flubbernugget is very scummy, but could just be over-zealous town.

Everyone else, pretty neutral overall.

[Battle Mage]

Egix - let me get this straight - you did a review of

everything

prior to you joining the game, and the

only

posts you felt were scummy were me?

I'm not even sure if it's worth responding to this load of tunnel-visiony garbage.

So basically I like Battle Mage as town atm.

YES!!!! I've finally nailed it!!!

Seriously, this never happens.

I'm so happy I'm going to

Unvote

, at least until tomorrow when I read everything properly.

This reaction feels a bit... excessive? i.e. the level of excitement seems a bit unwarranted.

91 to 96 - To expand on what I said previously, I doubt that scum enters the game by giving rapid-fire reads.

107 - This guy knows what's up.

I was gonna read this and actually play but of course the hydra I was explicitly not told the identity of pregame is immediately being a complete dipshit

Vote: Cena and Savage

I'm not reading past the second page until this slot is gone or this person is replaced, k thx

idunno coach, i don't think this is pro-town posting my guy!

this is a really awkward and scummy post

To me it reads like it was meant to sound awkward though. Baited!

Can you stop with PL bullshit? Mod literally gave tools to vig people, if several bands together, so use those at night. I want D1 lynch something that I can work with D2, not to be back to square 1.

I'm finding it hard to reconcile you saying this, with you later claiming to be informed that finishers can be inhibited in certain ways. I'm not surprised that Mage found it to be "convenient".

I mean Hiplop, Pisskop and KuroiXHF have all said nothing so far. Could easily be scum sensibly staying out of the carnage.

I'll

Unvote, Vote: KuroiXHF

On the grounds that he's the only one of the 3 who gave an impression they cared.

Mehhh. I get that I myself am not the most industrious person in the world, but this... feels like a cop-out.

Reck is town

I'm feeling like we could have the makings of a neat little towncore with you, Reck, and Goofball.

eww

eww

wow this is not it chief

-snip-

wow seems someone's scum

-snip-

this aint it chief

I'm honestly not sure what you mean with these comments.

The fact you had to say mislynched, instead of lynched, is a little scummy. I think town would be more likely to just say lynched.

This feels like quite a reach really.

Please do tell what you thought this soft claim was, as I don't see it.

I don't see how asking this sort of question is meant to help matters at all.

369 - I see I'm not the only one who took issue with it.

===

Okay, that's everything up to the point where I joined. I think that:

VOTE: Battle Mage

is my best bet for scum aorn.

[Battle Mage]

Can we chill on the reads list in general? They are inherently scummy.

I keep telling myself if I make a reads list, I won't have to read the previous 30 pages ever again. Please forgive!

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Ramcius

[Battle Mage]

another hydra? lol...

[Battle Mage]

I see the Mod is corroborating Hiplop's claim now.

[Battle Mage]

I believe Espressojet’s been night killed every single game since returning unless I’ve missed some of his games.

I actually JUST got mislynched day1 and flipped town power role

What game?

[Battle Mage]

I believe Espressojet’s been night killed every single game since returning unless I’ve missed some of his games.

If he’s alive late game, kill him.

If he's alive late game, he's immortal.

[Battle Mage]

Happy to lynch either of these 3: Karnage, Ramcius, KuroiXHF.

Ramcius and Kuroi are surely scum.

And I thought Karnage was town until I had a premonition that he is scum.

I don't think Panzer is a good lynch today. No idea about Lavender. I'm happy for Hiplop to claim his role - has he claimed yet!?

[Battle Mage]

@BM

The world may never know

Mini Normal 2128

You're talking about an ongoing game?

@MOD

- I got one. Modkill this cheating fool.

[Battle Mage]

Egix, there is no way you actually think I'm scum. If you do, you must actually be scum yourself.

Add Egix to the lynch list folks!

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler: Me if I have to read through pisskop commenting on 45+ pages:

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Hiplop

Let's get a claim!

[Battle Mage]

Why is Espressojet self-voting?

[Battle Mage]

none of the scum are on the hiplop wagon, which is a good sign

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: hiplop

scum joining the hiplop wagon.

[Battle Mage]

Hold up.

Why is hiplop getting run up?

He claimed Otis and we don't believe it. So he needs to claim a role.

[Battle Mage]

Reina - do you buy his claim?

[Battle Mage]

Reina - do you buy his claim?

considering that his claim is 'otis' which gives no indication of his role or alignment

yes, yes i do

[Battle Mage]

you're right ramcius

Unvote, Vote: Ramcius

[Battle Mage]

we don't believe it

who is "we"?

I speak for the town!

[Battle Mage]

I speak for the town!

Spoiler:

I don't even know why you asked

[Battle Mage]

I don't even know why you asked

Because I don't remember anybody voting hiplop becaused they questioned the "Otis" claim.

Ah, well you're mistaken, but I'm not gonna lynch ya for it.

I'm obviously vt

this seems unlikely. you don't have a finisher?

On the contrary, I'm pretty happy with that claim.

QUOTED

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: kuroi

It's a good vote. I can see why you are one of the top 3 scummers of all time.

[Battle Mage]

Would have been better if you guys hadn't drawn Karnage's attention to that... He might have claimed VT later, and we'd have got him, because he clearly ain't one.

[Battle Mage]

Why you need to know about his finisher? And what makes you think that VTs doesn't have one? The more you post, the less I like you

Because I'm trying to figure our if his VT claim is believable. I'm not asking what his finisher is, just if he has one because if he has one he can't really be a VT can he?

p-edit: I did RTFT which is why I was asking about the VT claim when every player has a fucking finisher

You think his team wouldn't warn him? Or you think he'll post without reading scum chat? I really don't like your attempt to fish for his role

Every time you post, I want to vote for you even more. But I applaud your bravery and persistence.

[Battle Mage]

this seems unlikely. you don't have a finisher?

Aside from regular roles, every wrestler has a finisher that they can use

RTFT

So yo sayin'

Any vt claim is a fakeclaim?

He just got hit with the 3 most dangerous letters in all of Mafia.

DGB.

[Battle Mage]

yeahhhhhhhhhh claiming vt when literally every role is part vig feels gross.

the lurking is probably like 80-90% not alignment related but I'm pretty fine with him as a day 1 lynch.

[Battle Mage]

i am liking ramcius less

This guy consistently talks so much sense, he must be scum. Or he's the best town player I've ever seen.

[Battle Mage]

im gonna be honest

im not even gonna entertain this last push because its either completely incompetent or extremely manipulative

my role pm says vt. everyone has a finisher - its just the base game mechanic. im still a vt, holy shit.

thanks for being honest. I believe you.

It's a good claim, you could be a VT, happy to lynch somebody else today.

[Battle Mage]

The more you post, the less I like you

Seems like you're waiting for others to vote me first so you can say "yeah I don't like him either" and join the wagon without having to stick you neck out

No, I'm happy with my vote on Flubber

Speaking of you - you tried to bring discussion how Lavender is liability in LYLO, yet no continuation, when I said you should get people to vig them, if you think they're problem. You disliked DGB earlier and forgot that that you were sheeping her on Hiplop, your cop out "Hiplop has higher chance than random to flip scum" afterwards didn't looked good to me. Now you're blatantly rolefishing. How about this for sticking my neck out?

Some scumhunting here. Are you bussing Karnage-scum?

[Battle Mage]

if we're going to wagon a "lurker" i think kuroi is spades better.

Agree

[Battle Mage]

im gonna be honest

im not even gonna entertain this last push because its either completely incompetent or extremely manipulative

my role pm says vt. everyone has a finisher - its just the base game mechanic. im still a vt, holy shit.

thanks for being honest. I believe you.

It's a good claim, you could be a VT, happy to lynch somebody else today.

That's all it took for you?

Yep, I'm easily satisfied if you just do what I tell you.

[Battle Mage]

Some scumhunting here. Are you bussing Karnage-scum?

This question is... meaningless (to put it in the nicest way possible). If the subject (Ramcius) is Town the answer is obviously NO. If he is Scum he is either NOT bus'ing (i.e. the answer is still NO) or he is bus'ing but can't say so because it's against the riles to

claim scum with someone else

.

-Monkeyman studying to get a LAW degree and become a JJS apprentice/intern

I was teasing him, I didn't expect him to actually confess. Although good spot on the rules - can we modkill him now, Mr Legal Beagle?

[Battle Mage]

I mean, I'm glad we're getting off this wagon

But you're not my Shephard

The Lord is your Shepherd.

I'm just your neighbour.

[Battle Mage]

Mod: Can we modkill Ramcius for Post 1229? Apparently confessing your scumteam is against the rules.

Definitely think this game would benefit from a little more controversy!

[Battle Mage]

If saying "I'm bussing my team" instigates a modkill...

Can we just have everyone say it and lynch those who refuse?

Ah so maybe it is against the rules whether it is true or not? We should find out soon anyway if the Mod takes a view. Worth the risk on this one I think, Ramcius is surely scum!

[Battle Mage]

Mod: Can we modkill Ramcius for Post 1229? Apparently confessing your scumteam is against the rules.

Definitely think this game would benefit from a little more controversy!

You see, problem is that he gave me green rolecard, so how about you chill and try to find scum instead of wasting my time?

I'm trying to save your time in the long run!

[Battle Mage]

...black mage?

[Battle Mage]

im gonna be honest

im not even gonna entertain this last push because its either completely incompetent or extremely manipulative

my role pm says vt. everyone has a finisher - its just the base game mechanic. im still a vt, holy shit.

thanks for being honest. I believe you.

It's a good claim, you could be a VT, happy to lynch somebody else today.

That's all it took for you?

Indeed, the tone of 1224 is bad as well...

[Battle Mage]

Ramcius and Kuroi are p good lynches

VOTE: kuroi

I'm convinced you must be scum. Nobody (apart from me) is this good at mafia.

[Battle Mage]

I forgot about this game about 5 times. Every time I'd say ah I'll log on later and forgot about it later.
Did I miss anything useful?

I think some folks want to lynch you. i'm much less fussy at this stage. Can we please lynch someone already?

[Battle Mage]

Do you really want a 100 page D1?

Exactly.

Do you really want to lynch anybody just for the sake of it?

Well it would be good if they had a reasonable chance of being scum, but to be honest, the mechanics of this game are so NK heavy that I'm not sure how much it matters? The game will hinge on whether the town is using our finishers on the right people.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Karnage

[Battle Mage]

I have a few town reads, though.

Karnage
Chennisden

not enough Battle Mage in this list.

FoS

[Battle Mage]

top of the shop!

[Battle Mage]

how about you both take a D? D for Don't care about your argument, let's get lynchy!

[Battle Mage]

Flubbernugget and Ramcius are scum, at least one of them anyway!

[Battle Mage]

Another lurker wagon inbound, maybe we should just ask Kuroi to claim and save us time?

Great idea.

Kuroi - Time to claim!

[Battle Mage]

hang on wait, did Karnage claim yet? Let's make sure we do this in a structured, coherent way....

[Battle Mage]

Another lurker wagon inbound, maybe we should just ask Kuroi to claim and save us time?

Great idea.

Kuroi - Time to claim!

hang on wait, did Karnage claim yet? Let's make sure we do this in a structured, coherent way....

No I haven't claimed yet.

I do love the irony(?) that I'm being scumread for "rolefishing" while other people are calling for claims from players at L-8. go figure

Great, claim now please!

[Battle Mage]

Don't Call Scumteams: You're Almost Always Wrong and Even When You Are Right No One Gives A Shit Except For You

,

Well sometimes when you are in like 4 days of successive LYLO, you have to take a punt.

[Battle Mage]

Actually, that wagon hasn't yet matured, so back on it.

VOTE: Kuroi

Put me in your pocket DGB

Vote: Kuroi

[Battle Mage]

I have a suspicion that the next 5-10 pages of this game are going to be tragically dumb but I'm compelled to follow through

I assume that's based on the history of the last 40 odd pages?

[Battle Mage]

61 pages, no lynches. What is the game coming to?

[Battle Mage]

Actually, that wagon hasn't yet matured, so back on it.

VOTE: Kuroi

Put me in your pocket DGB

Vote: Kuroi

I have a suspicion that the next 5-10 pages of this game are going to be tragically dumb but I'm compelled to follow through

I assume that's based on the history of the last 40 odd pages?

What in the deep fried fuck is happening here

I know right!

[Battle Mage]

am I? when did that happen?

[Battle Mage]

DGB, how could you have misled me like this!?

[Battle Mage]

Were we supposed to pretend gobble didn't just post to his scumbuddies in the wrong thread for the spirit of the game or something because I'm owed a refund on like three scum losses if that's the case

says the person not voting gobbles

I just want you to know right now that if you're fucking with my head it's working

eeeeexcellent

if you think that gobbles scumslipped then vote gobbles instead of being cute about trying to get the most optimalest scumlynch between the scumlynches

one step at a time my friend

Reina, is gobbles really scum?

[Battle Mage]

I don’t honestly get why they are all defending lavender when I’m trying to bus her lol. Guess we should just get on the Kuroi mislynch

I've only just noticed this. Hot damn.

[Battle Mage]

I'll follow a brother,

Vote: Gobbledygooker

[Battle Mage]

I don’t honestly get why they are all defending lavender when I’m trying to bus her lol. Guess we should just get on the Kuroi mislynch

I've only just noticed this. Hot damn.

...I read this as him being cheeky. you are aware that PTs aren't even the same color as public threads right? it's pretty fucking unlikely he just straight up posted in the wrong thread.

Even if it's unlikely, it's definitely worth a little tickle.

[Battle Mage]

And besides, I've definitely done dumber things than that! So it's probably Turkey-Lavender-Flubbernugget as a team, given Flubs was the first one to call it out for what it is in a panic.

[Battle Mage]

It would be great to lynch someone asap, so I can sync all my games to night-phase at the same time.

[Battle Mage]

Our tag team name is Piss Flavor.

And i don’t believe I ever called you scum? I was talking personal level in a fun way

That remark was NOT directed at you.

Some cute interactions between Flavor Leaf, 50JP and Pisskop.

Also think from very early interactions, Reckoner likely not to be scum with FL.

To be fair, I have definitely crumbed who I am this game, but if you don’t know stuff from the past like 6 years, you wouldn’t get it.

I think I posted this

Monday night

, am I getting it?

When there’s more to analyze, you can call the docta of flavanomics, and I’ll sweep you up like the leaves on my porch.

Like the fucking mafia messiah

You know exactly who I am.

I'm Seth Rollins.

^This is the moment Flavor Leaf gave Karnage his easiest win in mafia ever. (italics me)

[Battle Mage]

hiplop (7): DrippingGoofball, Karnage, Emperor flippyNips, 50 Judge Powers, pisskop, Untrod Tripod, Reina

This likely has a scum in it. We should lynch within this.

Hmm. Idk what I think about this wagon, but I do think Hiplop is town just for being this high ran up.

1-2 scum are probably on this.

Based on this post + the NKs (and Karnage flip) I am willing to bet Nips, PK & UT are all TOWN (or at least not group scum if there are still 3P players out there)

Really??

I mean, IF you're right, I'd say the odds are pretty high YOU are group scum...

[Battle Mage]

I have a few town reads, though.

Karnage
Chennisden

I already mentioned why I think Flubber’s town.

UT’s probably town for when we mind melded way back when in a way, i forget what it was about, but I remember us reading a specific post in the same way, so I’m gonna lean town there.

Chennisden, Flubber, UT - all town. Probably not.

I have a few town reads, though.

Karnage
Chennisden

I’m not gonna say why I town read these 2 btw.

But they should know why.

Slightly more likely Chennisden is scum.

FlippyNips/EJet aren’t S/S. I feel there’d be more discrediting or at least more comments on me later in the game if they were S/S

I actually like Hiplop a lot for scum. I liked the DGB vote.

He changed this to "town" later, but was this a slip?

[Battle Mage]

FlippyNips/EJet aren’t S/S. I feel there’d be more discrediting or at least more comments on me later in the game if they were S/S

So 1 of them is scum maybe?

It’s more of a Karnage/FL connection feeling and the specific reach out. Based on familiarity of past games. Can’t really explain it too much, to be honest, I kind of just feel that way right now. Does this make sense? Call it gut, I suppose.

Laughing at how much Karnage outplayed FL here...

[Battle Mage]

Initial thoughts based on FL interactions and Day early play only:

chennisden - medium scumminess of interactions from FL
hiplop - medium scumminess of interactions from FL (weirdness around his wagon on Day 1)
Untrod Tripod -low scumminess of interactions from FL
Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL
50 Judge Powers - believes Emperor, UT and Pisskop are town on Day 2 open. Seems unlikely, and weird conclusion for town to draw. Cute foreplay with FL.
pisskop - sexy play with FL. Post 1670 rings as v scummy - not credible.

Espressojet - likely either she or Emperor flippynips are scum based on FL comments
Emperor flippyNips - likely either him or Espressojet are scum based on FL comments

Panzerjager
Lavender
Egix96
KuroiXHF
Ramcius
Doctor Drew

xRECKONERx - likely TOWN based on FL comments

[Battle Mage]

ah slow down 50JP, I need to update my list now!

[Battle Mage]

hiplop (7): DrippingGoofball, Karnage, Emperor flippyNips, 50 Judge Powers, pisskop, Untrod Tripod, Reina

This likely has a scum in it. We should lynch within this.

Hmm. Idk what I think about this wagon, but I do think Hiplop is town just for being this high ran up.

1-2 scum are probably on this.

Based on this post + the NKs (and Karnage flip) I am willing to bet Nips, PK & UT are all TOWN (or at least not group scum if there are still 3P players out there)

Really??

I mean, IF you're right, I'd say the odds are pretty high YOU are group scum...

Good one.

But seriously, what I'm saying is FL said 1-2 scum there to get us to lynch ON that wagon. He is Scum so it's less likely there are scum on the wagon. Also his team (which I'm sure he had influenced their NK decision) decided to also kill on that wagon, meaning he wanted to lynch someone on the wagon and was trying to get there fast enough by eliminating the others (and the loud voices/more influential players). Scum either killed Reina or DGB, and both were on the wagon. Now why kill someone ON the wagon when you are trying to lynch from that pool?

Maybe, maybe not. I still think he could say that if there were 1 or even 2 scum on that wagon - 1 or 2 out of 7 is pretty good odds if you can lead and manipulate it.

I wouldn't read too much into NK options as far as FL is concerned - why do you think FL would be choosing an NK target? I also don't buy that FL would have had some great plan behind an NK if he had chosen it. His play has been pretty random and he didn't obviously care too much about it. And I'm fairly sure Reina was killed because he was confirmed town, not because he was on a random wagon during Day 1.

[Battle Mage]

Initial thoughts based on FL interactions and Day early play only:

chennisden - medium scumminess of interactions from FL
hiplop - medium scumminess of interactions from FL (weirdness around his wagon on Day 1)
Untrod Tripod -low scumminess of interactions from FL
Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL
50 Judge Powers - believes Emperor, Chen and Pisskop are town on Day 2 open. Convinced UT is town. Seems unlikely, and weird conclusion for town to draw. Cute foreplay with FL. He claims to be not sure on Flubbernugget though.
pisskop - sexy play with FL. Post 1670 rings as v scummy - not credible.

Espressojet - likely either she or Emperor flippynips are scum based on FL comments
Emperor flippyNips - likely either him or Espressojet are scum based on FL comments

Panzerjager
Lavender
Egix96
KuroiXHF
Ramcius
Doctor Drew

xRECKONERx - likely TOWN based on FL comments

[Battle Mage]

Factoring in wagon patterns from Day 1:

chennisden - medium scumminess of interactions from FL. Late on Day 1 lynch wagon.
hiplop - medium scumminess of interactions from FL (weirdness around his wagon on Day 1). Late on large town-wagon mid-Day 1.
Untrod Tripod -low scumminess of interactions from FL. Early on Day 1 lynch wagon, surrounded by non group-scum. Early on another large town wagon on Day 1.
Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL. Early on Day 1 lynch wagon, surrounded by non group-scum. PM'd everyone at night with request to kill Kuroi - mild town-lean.
50 Judge Powers - believes Emperor, Chen and Pisskop are town on Day 2 open. Convinced UT is town. Seems unlikely, and weird conclusion for town to draw. Cute foreplay with FL. He claims to be not sure on Flubbernugget though. Late on Day 1 lynch wagon.
pisskop - sexy play with FL. Post 1670 rings as v scummy - not credible.

Espressojet - likely either she or Emperor flippynips are scum based on FL comments
Emperor flippyNips - likely either him or Espressojet are scum based on FL comments

Doctor Drew - late on Day 1 lynch wagon.
Lavender - Late on Day 1 lynch wagon.
Panzerjager - Voting for town end of Day 1. On large town wagon earlier in day.
Ramcius - Voting for town end of Day 1.
Egix96 - Voting for town end of Day 1.
KuroiXHF

xRECKONERx - likely TOWN based on FL comments. Voting for town end of Day 1. On large town wagon earlier in day.

[Battle Mage]

sexy play with FL

idg what this means

if you mean why we're overly familiar w/each other, its because Ive known flavor since he was a teeny little boonskitten making his very first mod game.

I think it's clear you get exactly what this means.

[Battle Mage]

ISO of Chennisden shows a highly disproportionate amount of interaction with FL in his first 12 posts:

insert snarky comment

VOTE: flavor leaf

Wait, is this guy really trying to self meta himself right now?

yes

he's not trolling, he's flavor leaf

Also, Cena and Savage are hidden identities, but they were using meta earlier on me, weren’t they?

Lol, yeah, I’m with you lot. Down with Cena and Savage!!! (For me in a scum way, though)

scummy take my guy!

wow seems

someone's

scum

Turns out he was right!

I’m assuming that was for the finisher mechanic? I disagree at all that we should try and map that out. That’s so easily manipulateable by scum. We can do that in a few day phases, not now

A rare occasion when Flavor Leaf says something that I unambiguously understand

I only have 1 use of it

Thanks but we didn't need to know

[Battle Mage]

I think youre high on flavor leaf

I think you've been drinking his piss.

[Battle Mage]

Initial thoughts based on FL interactions and Day early play only:

I'm just gonna throw this out there: Flavor fancies himself a really good scum player (not without reason, but I'm just saying) so my inclination is to just fucking ignore his posts because he was probably trying to muddy the water as much as he could

There was lots of interesting stuff to be gleaned from his posts.

but if you're talking about our "interactions" why would I, as his scum buddy, be telling the mason to throw a finisher at him

This game is a sludge pit, I don't think I have anything better than what feel like dumb gut reads.

UT are you particularly confident in Karnage being scum? I want to poke at Egix and Flavor the most out of anyone but I'm going to be pretty okay with voting anyone that doesn't look town to me yet.

VOTE: Kuroi

it is my strongest read, yes. I think if you want to poke at Flavor you should poke at them with a finisher tonight.

what's the scumcred to be gained there by just casually throwing that out? I'm not leading a scumcase or anything, I didn't even say that I scumread him. I just said rather than engage with him how about you just fucking vig him. not really a move any scum player is going to make, sorry. I like my bussing to result in towncred.

I hadn't got as far as your comments towards/in respect of him yet - patience please! Although the fact you've brought that up automatically makes it null at best for me. And seems it was simply an off-hand comment, so hardly significant to anything.

[Battle Mage]

I also don't buy that FL would have had some great plan behind an NK if he had chosen it. His play has been pretty random and he didn't obviously care too much about it.

Saying FL doesn't/didn't have a plan is like saying an elephant doesn't have a trunk. FL is the best scum player of 2019. I have played against scum!FL, I have been scum with scum!FL, and I have modded scum!FL. One of his main strengths though is to have people like you think he was disengaged and didn't have a plan, Another is establishing false associatives with town (or in our case, players not on his team). His arsenal also includes buddying/pocketing, fakeclaiming, role/info fishing. Finally, he is proud to claim he always wins when he is the first scum to go down (because of those weapons I've just listed). Now I haven't tried to actually verify that claim, but please don't underestimate FL even after he is removed from the game.

This probably wasn't his best game then. I suppose the benefit of not having played with him before, is I can have an independent outsider's perspective, and not be as unduly intimidated as you seem to be. It's odd that if you have so much experience playing with him, you wouldn't invest more time in unpicking his play using your expertise and helping to work out who his partners were from that. For what it's worth, nothing you've listed above is special, and I'd expect any player as scum to be able to do any of those things.

[Battle Mage]

Yeah lots more analysis to do later, but for now I'm happy with a starting

Vote: Chennisden

I did read whole ISO, nothing else really jumped out at me, apart from the fact he is a good player with good reads.

[Battle Mage]

I hadn't got as far as your comments towards/in respect of him yet - patience please! Although the fact you've brought that up automatically makes it null at best for me. And seems it was simply an off-hand comment, so hardly significant to anything.

you called me potentially scum for interactions, my guy. I responded. that's how conversations work.

I'm not your guy, and don't talk silly.

I was very specific that they were interactions

from him, to you

. I'm not cruel enough to blame you for his mistakes - you can answer for any of your own later!

[Battle Mage]

@BM: This is from a recent game, and the reasoning still stands.

Geez! I said -in my hood- that I won't be pushing FL because it's harder to lynch him and the game would turn toxic if he was seriously pushed. That is why I wanted to push DEB over FL today although I am actually more confident FL is Scum.

I am now being forced to take a solid stance and out that if I ever got the Vig shot I was going to shoot FL myself. That's how confident I am he is Scum.

In short, if you suspect FL and you can avoid confronting him about it in the thread, that'd be a good idea. If you have the means to take him out at night without the fuss and the +500 posts of back and forth, do it.

I'm not sure what you expect me to say to this? If you are town, try and lynch scum. It's that simple. You're over-thinking it here.

[Battle Mage]

I hadn't got as far as your comments towards/in respect of him yet - patience please! Although the fact you've brought that up automatically makes it null at best for me. And seems it was simply an off-hand comment, so hardly significant to anything.

you called me potentially scum for interactions, my guy. I responded. that's how conversations work.

I'm not your guy, and don't talk silly.

I was very specific that they were interactions

from him, to you

. I'm not cruel enough to blame you for his mistakes - you can answer for any of your own later!

yawn. bring it. if you want me dead you're going to have to get the scum to do it after they're done masonhunting.

I don't buy the attitude. If you really had any confidence in yourself, you wouldn't have opened up such a weak defence of yourself today.

Why are you so nervous?

[Battle Mage]

vote pisskop

@ut: I don't like his interactions with FL day 1, especially considering that was his only day 1 contribution. I don't like the rahrah we got scum shit to open the day. Basically all of his posts today have been garbage for one reason or another. A little bit of gut.

Reasonable.

[Battle Mage]

I'm doing character research for an online play reading I'm doing tonight

SL

[Battle Mage]

I think we need more flips, guys, so people would finally start talking

yeah agreed

[Battle Mage]

RKO: Untrod Tripod

[Battle Mage]

Is that a dayvig?

only because you posted immediately afterwards.

[Battle Mage]

Is that a dayvig?

only because you posted immediately afterwards.

Well you killed the innocent child ya doofus

I was just dicking around dude. You shouldn't have left your bag lying around...

[Battle Mage]

Just a RIB!

[Battle Mage]

if you're town, it makes a flubbernugget lynch more attractive.

[Battle Mage]

But I think I'm still voting for chennisden which is fine for now.

[Battle Mage]

if you're town, it makes a flubbernugget lynch more attractive.

Why you think Flubber is scum?

I explained my reads earlier, read my posts man...

[Battle Mage]

if you're town, it makes a flubbernugget lynch more attractive.

Why you think Flubber is scum?

I explained my reads earlier, read my posts man...

You shouldn't talk about that PM, also it wasn't everyone.

VCA on Turkey wagon is pointless due to nature of it

it's BM, and it did include everyone, you obviously haven't read it...

[Battle Mage]

if you're town, it makes a flubbernugget lynch more attractive.

Why you think Flubber is scum?

I explained my reads earlier, read my posts man...

You shouldn't talk about that PM, also it wasn't everyone.

VCA on Turkey wagon is pointless due to nature of it

it's BM, and it did include everyone, you obviously haven't read it...

I can see only 6 names, excluding mod. And stop talking about it

what the hell are you talking about??

Why would I have the mod in my reads list? And I'm only talking about it because you asked about my reads! Jesus, this is gonna be hard work with you isn't it?

[Battle Mage]

Anyway when I'm gone and confirmed town, my suspicions are

Reck, egix, flippynips, hiplop

I would lynch in Reck/hiplop today. I don;t think either egix or nips are scum.

Reck is like the towniest player here, I aint lynching him.

[Battle Mage]

Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL

Hey battle mage
Not only did I read your posts, I read this one three damn times

excellent work flubbernugget, you'll progress quickly!

[Battle Mage]

Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL

Hey battle mage
Not only did I read your posts, I read this one three damn times

excellent work flubbernugget, you'll progress quickly!

You're going to hurt yourself if you want to lynch your town leans and then think they're the stupid ones

say what?

i feel like you're threatening me, but i have no idea what you're talking about...

[Battle Mage]

If it weren't for gobbles plowing my hopes and dreams into the fucking ground I'd be relentlessly down your throat over this

Are you ok buddy?

[Battle Mage]

Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL. Early on Day 1 lynch wagon, surrounded by non group-scum.

PM'd everyone at night with request to kill Kuroi

- mild town-lean.

I bolded part in your own readlist, does that refresh your memory?

Also, how he's your preferred lynch, when you say mild town lean?

So all that time, you were talking about something that happened at night? And telling me not to talk about it (when I wasn't)? Damn....

I'm glad you've read my reads list at least. But you haven't read my more recent posts very carefully. I never said, indicated or suggested that flubs was my "preferred lynch". I said he was a more attractive lynch in light of UT-town than previously. The reason for that should be obvious, but I can't spell everything out for you.

Also, not that it really matters, but in the reads list, it's quite obvious he isn't a mild townlean overall, given he was in my top scum bracket. just that 1 action of his actions was a mild townlean. I'm sure you understood that, and were just being silly on purpose.

[Battle Mage]

As ram7ius pointed out, you want to lynch a town lean

*Johnnie Cochran voice* that does not make sense

ah see post 1798, and then work on your reading comprehension.

playing the stupid card doesn't make you seem any more town btw

[Battle Mage]

Why are you so combative today black man?

i'm bored

[Battle Mage]

Flubbernugget - low scumminess of interactions from FL. Early on Day 1 lynch wagon, surrounded by non group-scum.

PM'd everyone at night with request to kill Kuroi

- mild town-lean.

I bolded part in your own readlist, does that refresh your memory?

Also, how he's your preferred lynch, when you say mild town lean?

So all that time, you were talking about something that happened at night? And telling me not to talk about it (when I wasn't)? Damn....

I'm glad you've read my reads list at least. But you haven't read my more recent posts very carefully. I never said, indicated or suggested that flubs was my "preferred lynch". I said he was a more attractive lynch in light of UT-town than previously. The reason for that should be obvious, but I can't spell everything out for you.

Also, not that it really matters, but in the reads list, it's quite obvious he isn't a mild townlean overall, given he was in my top scum bracket. just that 1 action of his actions was a mild townlean. I'm sure you understood that, and were just being silly on purpose.

You literally included it in your readlist (which is a mess to comprehend), but sure, you didn't talk about it

Turkey's wagon VCA is pointless, scum didn't needed justification to go with it, or do you have other reason to scumread flub besides the fact that UT is another non group scum before flub on lynch wagon?

To be clear, I mentioned it once, very lowkey, you went on and on about it for ages, for no reason.

perhaps best for me to ask you a question - why are you so worried about why i think flub is slightly more suspicious?

[Battle Mage]

perhaps best for me to ask you a question - why are you so worried about why i think flub is slightly more suspicious?

I'm not worried about you being slightly susp of him, I'm worried about you wanting to lynch him based on your

slight suspicion

Seriously dude...I never said I wanted to lynch him today. Are we even playing the same game?

If Flub-scum, Ramcius more likely scum.

[Battle Mage]

less excuses, more content

I'm deliberately hanging back right now to see where everyone is at mentally. I don't want to give scum the room to just agree with whatever I say.

I couldn't agree more.

[Battle Mage]

information instead of analysis

basically adding noise by restating things that have happened and not adding any analysis/readable opinions on it

this somewhat describes BM

u just bein a bitch to me today coz I nailed u

My vote doesn't count for some reason, let's try again.

Vote: DennisChen

[Battle Mage]

i'm glad you were either impressed or convinced.

Smell ya later! I've got a busy day at work tomorrow!

[Battle Mage]

What's up with Piss?

I'm

V/LA for the next couple of days y'all

, doin key worker stuff....

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count 2.04

KuroiXHF (4): xRECKONERx, Doctor Drew, 50 Judge Powers, Ramcius
Pisskop (2): Panzerjager
Doctor Drew (2): Flubbernugget, pisskop
Panzerjager (1): KuroiXHF
chennisden (1): Battle Mage
Emperor flippyNips (1): Espressojet
Lavender (1):
Not Voting (6): hiplop, Emperor flippyNips, Lavender, chennisden, Untrod Tripod, Egix96

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to bury someone!
Battle Mage is V/LA for a couple days. (I don't know if this is still happening or not, just leaving it up here)
All necessary prods have gone out.
Day Two ends on Friday, May 1st at 1:00pm EST in (expired on 2020-05-01 13:00:00)

Thanks Mod, yes I'll be back tonight or tomorrow morning!

[Battle Mage]

I can live with a Kuroi lynch. No real link to FL-scum, but individually he does stand out as a very scummy player. Let's get lynchy!

Vote: Kuroi

[Battle Mage]

If you read, you'd notice that I SUSPECTED DGB.

DGB already flipped town dude

[Battle Mage]

there's merit to your madness UT

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Chennisden

[Battle Mage]

will require some co-ordination to salvage this game now I feel... but let's keep it simple and lynch the scummiest player today

[Battle Mage]

Chenmisden aint the scummiest by a long shot

you're wrong, he's literally the scummiest

[Battle Mage]

I aint got no finishers

[Battle Mage]

Chen totten flip idk

Can someone tell me why chen is scum

guilty investigation?

[Battle Mage]

Chen totten flip idk

Can someone tell me why chen is scum

guilty investigation?

Not this nonsense again...

I like to spice things up.

if he flips scum today, I'll take my medicine tomorrow - deal?

[Battle Mage]

i kept hoping we'd flip a scumbag by now

Uh, I'm pretty sure we already did?

well, in fairness to Reck, FL sort of flipped himself.

[Battle Mage]

Chen totten flip idk

Can someone tell me why chen is scum

guilty investigation?

Is this a question, or a claim?

Neither, I was just screwing around

[Battle Mage]

OK, cuz last time you were "just screwing around" you exposed our Innocent Child

So maybe cool it a bit?

he was claiming anyway.

besides, it was better than lynching him.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Lavender

Claimed Roman Reigns. Don't buy anything else in the claim. Why would Seth have a third party hunting him, and a town party immune from his finish? Seems a bit shitty.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Lavender

Claimed Roman Reigns. Don't buy anything else in the claim. Why would Seth have a third party hunting him, and a town party immune from his finish? Seems a bit shitty.

Why wouldn't he? And more importantly, why make scum immune to each other's finishers? Or do you think Lavender made it up? If so, then a counterclaim maybe due. I think everyone who is immune to a finisher is immune to one belonging to a player who is also immune to theirs. Check UT & Ramcius Role PMs, as they were immune to each other's finishers.

So, my point is Lavender is probably immune to FL's finisher (unless CC'd) and it doesn't make sense to me that scum would be immune to each other's finishers (because they obviously won't be targeting each other with them)

Of course I think she made it up. Obviously. I can't believe you actually believe it!?

Your defence of Lavender here is beyond lame, and implicates you when she flips red.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, are you a fan of current wrestling?

I sure am!

[Battle Mage]

@BM: So, what wrestler doesn't have a finisher, I wonder. I am not claiming to be an expert in nowadays wrestlers (the only one I've seen wrestling from ALL the flipped ones in John Sena) but I'm curious about it. Care to share?

Lol, sorry to use insider terms.

And every wrestler has some sort of finisher......unless he isn't a wrestler and maybe a manager, announcer, or something if the like.

After a quick ISO if Battle Mage on D1.

Also didn't buy Hipflop as Otis(he was), and really wanted to lynch Ramcius......but claims not to have finishers?

Also, per my theory, mentioned Hipflop could be a non wrestler(Vince McMahon).

Kind of interesting tbh.

Why are you role-fishing?

[Battle Mage]

Well, what the heck? Someone's gotta make a stand here.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I need an answer

, and the game needs to get back on track. CLAIM YOUR FLAVOR, PLEASE.

I entertained everything that warranted comment. I'm not claiming anything at your request.

I'm going to

Vote: 50JP

for the combo of defending Lavender for a dumb reason and role-fishing me for no reason.

[Battle Mage]

IMPORTANT: NOT FISHING, so don't tell us whether you used it once or twice. @Lavender

Not sure why you make such a big fuss here that you aren't fishing, then proceed to blatantly fish for my role on the same page.

[Battle Mage]

Why are you role-fishing?

Because I obviously DO NOT believe your claim to not have a finisher?

you shouldn't be fishing for who does/doesn't have finishers. nobody should. it's not pro-town.

[Battle Mage]

I mean, you (BM) didn't even address ANYTHING in my post beyond "she made it up". I also asked many questions if that's what you thought. You didn't answer ANY of them.

because you talked a load of rubbish, and I couldn't be arsed to pick it all apart. The bottom line is, I voted Lavender because I think her claim is likely to be false, no idea why she even made it, other than to buy some cheap town-cred. No genuine town-motivation for doing it when she did. And it's clearly made up anyway, as I've already explained.

[Battle Mage]

@BM: So, what wrestler doesn't have a finisher, I wonder. I am not claiming to be an expert in nowadays wrestlers (the only one I've seen wrestling from ALL the flipped ones in John Sena) but I'm curious about it. Care to share?

why the hell would i tell you whether I have finishers or not? gimme a break dude, you gotta be ribbin

[Battle Mage]

So what do you think? Does this clear me or you want me to convince ya more?

If true, then that's pretty awesome imho. And tbh, I don't see you coming up with that out of thin air, so I'm inclined to believe it. Thank you.

P.S. That doesn't seem like something you should have hidden either. I mean, I understand not saying anything on D1, but as soon as FL flipped there was nothing to worry about revealing it anymore and especially so when you have already used the finisher at least once.

I don't believe you could actually honestly believe this claim. Mod said flavour does not indicate alignment, so arguing a babyface wrestler can't be scum here is demonstrably untrue.

[Battle Mage]

So you're saying, no one in this game has the Superman Punch finisher at all BM?

Nope, I buy that you are Roman Reigns, and your finisher may be the superman punch. But I don't buy the thing about you being immune to FL and vice versa. And I don't buy the timing of your claim at all - as noted, there's no good town reason for you to claim when you did.

[Battle Mage]

Why are you role-fishing?

Because I obviously DO NOT believe your claim to not have a finisher?

you shouldn't be fishing for who does/doesn't have finishers. nobody should. it's not pro-town.

You fucking CLAIMED IT.

I aint got no finishers

If you didn't want me/anyone to ask then you should not have posted that out of nowhere in the first place. And I was not the one who outed the IC, so don't accuse me of being you. Thank you very much.

Dude, I was just takin the piss outta y'all for claiming finishers and shit. What a complete joke.

No I wouldn't expect you to ask me (if you were town and remotely sensible) because you shouldn't be fishing for what finishers people have left, because obviously scum will want to hit people with more finishers left. Duh.

[Battle Mage]

I also claimed to have a day-kill RKO earlier, but you didn't bother role-fishing me after that did ya?

and give the IC crap a rest, he was claiming anyway, nothing I did made any difference.

Maybe just confess now and save us all time, thanks and goodnight!

[Battle Mage]

as noted, there's no good town reason for you to claim when you did.

Sorry to intervene, but I asked her to, and she complied. To me it now looks like Lavender had nothing to worry about, but you do.

On the contrary, I have nothing to worry about.

Why would you ask her to claim, and then me to claim? If you're town, what the fk is wrong with you? If you're scum, could you be any more obvious?

[Battle Mage]

To be clear, 50JP is scum.

I am not.

I am not claiming anything - flavour, role, finishers, nada.

Now it is bedtime.

[Battle Mage]

So you're saying, no one in this game has the Superman Punch finisher at all BM?

Nope, I buy that you are Roman Reigns, and your finisher may be the superman punch. But I don't buy the thing about you being immune to FL and vice versa. And I don't buy the timing of your claim at all - as noted, there's no good town reason for you to claim when you did.

It literally said in Flavor's flip that he was immune to the Superman Punch.

And why not claim when they did? Lavender kept saying they could be cleared, if you are gonna say it then you should do it.

Hold on a minute, it did?

Then I take back Lavender being scum! Great work detective drew!

My point was, and is, that Lavender being confirmed-town doesn't help us at all today, because we probably weren't going to lynch her anyway before she claimed, and if he had claimed later with fewer players left it might have helpfully narrowed the lynch field. Now it just means she is a ripe target for scum.

Now join me in lynching 50JP-scum!

[Battle Mage]

No I wouldn't expect you to ask me (if you were town and remotely sensible) because you shouldn't be fishing for what finishers people have left, because obviously scum will want to hit people with more finishers left. Duh.

Show me ONE incident where I asked ANYONE to state how many finishers they have left.

So, you do have a finisher, and that was a

stupid

bad attempt at WIFOM? I could buy that, knowing your play. But you have to understand that "not having a finisher" rings all kinds of bells from a mechanical PoV.

UNVOTE:

And now I'm back to wondering whom I should be voting!

Maybe try voting for yourself, scum. You literally asked me about my finishers, like 10 minutes ago, liars should be lynched.

[Battle Mage]

I also claimed to have a day-kill RKO earlier, but you didn't bother role-fishing me after that did ya?

It was obviously a fake claim and it resulted in outing UT as the IC.

Firstly, this is incorrect.

Secondly, it contradicts itself.

Not a strong day for you so far fella.

[Battle Mage]

So you're saying, no one in this game has the Superman Punch finisher at all BM?

Nope, I buy that you are Roman Reigns, and your finisher may be the superman punch. But I don't buy the thing about you being immune to FL and vice versa. And I don't buy the timing of your claim at all - as noted, there's no good town reason for you to claim when you did.

If I am Roman Reigns and my finisher is Superman Punch, that legit means FL is immune to my finisher. It's even in his role card.
As for my claim? I asked whether to reveal or not starting what, Day 2? I may not have phrased it in a direct way (Maybe I did I can't recall) but this time I was told to reveal info that can prove me as town and so I did.
Refusing after would make no sense right?

PE: Night

Eh, well thanks to Dr Drew, you are conf-town, but it definitely was not best to claim it, as explained in my posts above. You as a conf-town would be valuable later in game, and now you'll probably just be killed tonight. So it has no value to town.

[Battle Mage]

Why would you ask her to claim, and then me to claim? If you're town, what the fk is wrong with you? If you're scum, could you be any more obvious?[/quote

You already know this is NOT my scum game.

If so, you need to get some sleep and get your shit together.

[Battle Mage]

If the day is going to consist solely of everyone claiming roles and finishers at random, we're probably better off using a random-number generator and snap-lynching someone now to give town at least a mathematical chance of winning...

[Battle Mage]

I don't even know what to say about BM, is he a jester?

Pre Edit: BM is Doing the Clown haha

Pre Edit2: You said you didn't have a finisher, we were trying to flavor wise figure out who wouldn't. Your 'taking the piss' style of posting is worrisome.

Pre Edit3: You fake day vigged which cause UT to claim, it doesn't matter that he said was gonna anyways, you would not have known that when you pulled your stunt.

Pre Edit4: This game goes from no posts to I CAN'T FUCKING POST WITHOUT A DAMN PRE EDIT very quickly.

Y-O-U
M-U-S-T
B-E
S-L-O-W-E-S-T
T-Y-P-I-ST

[Battle Mage]

I don't even know what to say about BM, is he a jester?

Pre Edit: BM is Doing the Clown haha

Pre Edit2: You said you didn't have a finisher, we were trying to flavor wise figure out who wouldn't. Your 'taking the piss' style of posting is worrisome.

Pre Edit3: You fake day vigged which cause UT to claim, it doesn't matter that he said was gonna anyways, you would not have known that when you pulled your stunt.

Pre Edit4: This game goes from no posts to I CAN'T FUCKING POST WITHOUT A DAMN PRE EDIT very quickly.

Y-O-U
M-U-S-T
B-E
S-L-O-W-E-S-T
T-Y-P-I-ST

Pre-Edit 2 - You shouldn't be fishing for people's finishers. That's not town behaviour. I've been through this already with 50JP, I'm not going to repeat myself.
Pre-Edit 3 - That's not true, as UT himself acknowledged. And I don't really care, as I could easily have lynched him yesterday, so your guilt-trip doesn't fly with me kiddo.
Pre-Edit 4 - keep up grandma

[Battle Mage]

Also, a dig at my response speed vs replying to content of post.

Gotcha.

I replied to the content, you were just too quick for me - did you have help?

[Battle Mage]

Also, a dig at my response speed vs replying to content of post.

Gotcha.

I replied to the content, you were just too quick for me - did you have help?

and by the way, I wish I hadn't bothered, because the content was devoid of any value, and proved you had not been reading even the last 2 pages. A waste of my time, but I am courteous to a fault.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

I can't even.....

Pre EditLOL: Phone posting BM

Why in God's name are you voting for me?

[Battle Mage]

I'm back in force - we are lynching scum today, and that scum is

VOTE: 50JUDGEPOWERS

[Battle Mage]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have entered the 'scum hurls insults as defense mechanism' period of the game.

At least this game is fun now.

I'm obviously town. Which is why your digs at me (which don't actually suggest I am scum) make you look so bad. not bad as in scummy, just bad as in bad.

[Battle Mage]

@BM: I mean, I could blow your bubble in one line, but I won't. I'll let you hang yourself with or without my flip. I don't mind being today's lynch tbh, as I don't think I can be of help top anyone anymore. You should have never claimed to have no finishers, and none of this would have happened. How was I to know it was a cheap snap at those who did claim? And those who claimed did it for a reason (I guess) and that's tying to narrow down the pool for who the freak killed Ramcius. Nobody confessed to having targeted Ramcius. Not a single one. Do you have any leads to solve the game or we waiting for the non-posters to grace us with their presence sometime before the clock runs out?

I was quite happy lynching Chennisden-scum. More than I see you doing.

But I'm happier with lynching you today, given you've virtually outted yourself to me. And I think you're probably right, if it stops you fishing for everyone's roles, there's a case to lynch you swiftly regardless of alignment.

If you're town, you should take some responsibility for your actions. Claiming finishers and getting others to claim finishers is not in town's interest. You should not have questioned me, you should have questioned yourself before engaging in that activity.

I don't think the answer to 'solving the game' is to spunk off all the info to the scum. I think the key lies in lynching the scummiest players, like it always is in mafia.

[Battle Mage]

Chennisden - you're off the menu today!

It's 50JudgePowers who is getting splashed!

[Battle Mage]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have entered the 'scum hurls insults as defense mechanism' period of the game.

At least this game is fun now.

I'm obviously town. Which is why your digs at me (which don't actually suggest I am scum) make you look so bad. not bad as in scummy, just bad as in bad.

What digs did I take at you? I said you might be jester(which in case you didn't know, is your title) as a way of calling you Doink......but I loved Doink, take that as a complement.

Also, quick......point me to some posts that make you obv town.......I mean, I clearly suck at this game and need to extra assistance.

I basically should be on the JOB Squad

Dude, don't take it personally. I love you.

Play better.

And on a serious note - it isn't my job to persuade you I'm town, it's your job to persuade yourself and others I am scum (and nobody has even suggested that, as far as I can see?). But given the lack of productive activity already today, I don't think either of us should be wasting our energies on casing me.

Let's actually lynch scum for a change! Get with it!

[Battle Mage]

I was quite happy lynching Chennisden-scum. More than I see you doing.

Why is chenn scum? Give me a case rather than just throwing shade. In fact, give me a readlist if you have one. Thank you.

I've already made a case, and a readslist. Please remove your mouth from my nipple, and go read for yourself. Thank you.

Also, I'm much more inclined to help you learn the ways of the scumhunter if you vote for someone who might be scum.

[Battle Mage]

On reflection, for those who are short on time.

We are lynching 50JP today.

[Battle Mage]

If you're town, you should take some responsibility for your actions.

OK, I won't claim to have no finishers in the future. Point taken. I also promise not to fake dayvig someone on D1, and I won't sarcastically suggest I have a guilty on my lynch target (see 2092 for me acting silly).

I confess to all above. Now let me have it.

You're unbelievable dude. As in, the idea of you being town is unbelievable.

[Battle Mage]

Oh and 50JP, for what it's worth - if you want to save your bacon today, better start thinking about an alternative lynch (not becky).

Yes, that will require you to get some suspects.

Which would require you to do some scumhunting.

Which would require you to be town.

Actually, don't bother, just vote for yourself and save us time.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, I will make this clear.

YOU said you have been obv towning, so the onus is on YOU to prove it. And according to the quick ISO I did on you, I didn't see it.

And please explain ANY town motivation for your fake vig on UT. Every defense you have is that 'UT said he was gonna claim anyways' or 'UT even said it didn't matter'.

It doesn't matter what UT thought about it, what only matters is what YOUR motivation for doing it was.

And since your only defense is what a deadman said, and not an explanation of YOUR actions from YOUR own mouth, I am going to continue to vote you.

I will let others decide if you are scum or not based off this, but in my mind you are digging your own grave.

Look forward to what insults, deflections, and just outright ignoring of content you come with in your next post.

I look forward to reviewing, and potentially disregarding your case on me,

once you've come up with one

.

I don't need to explain anything based on UT claiming based on me joking around. Because firstly, it didn't happen. Secondly, your misinterpretation of events does not remotely indicate i'm scum. So no further comment required - I have no idea why you're wasting my time labouring this point, when there is like 80 pages of actual stuff you could talk about.

And really, if you actually honestly think that makes me scum, you need to see a

[Battle Mage]

also Drew, I did laugh at your post starting with "Battle Mage, I will make this clear:" which was followed by you clarifying absolutely nothing about why you are voting for me, why you are suggesting I could be scum, or why you aren't actually trying to find genuine scum.

Happy to review your next attempt to explain yourself.

[Battle Mage]

I was quite happy lynching Chennisden-scum. More than I see you doing.

Why is chenn scum? Give me a case rather than just throwing shade. In fact, give me a readlist if you have one. Thank you.

I've already made a case, and a readslist. Please remove your mouth from my nipple, and go read for yourself. Thank you.

Also, I'm much more inclined to help you learn the ways of the scumhunter if you vote for someone who might be scum.

I actually don't see anything other than "he talked with FL"

Which really doesn't mean anything much

I genuinely am curious where you're coming from and why you're so attached to this claim

well im clearly not that attached to it, as Im not voting for you, and you weren't even the previous person I was voting for before that!

[Battle Mage]

I buy RR as hated. I don't buy immune to curbstomp.

that's what I thought! but if FL's role PM said he's immune to RR, I think RR must be town right? probably anyway....

[Battle Mage]

Also I always love the 'going to bed guys, catch ya later!'

Followed by 200 posts trying to defend themselves.

Sleep isn't as important as defending yourself from one vote lol.

it got quite exciting for a minute! then I wake up to find...nothing from you? disappointed to say the least.

FoS: Dr Drew

until you show some evidence of trying to find scum, rather than just badgering me.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Lavender

Claimed Roman Reigns. Don't buy anything else in the claim. Why would Seth have a third party hunting him, and a town party immune from his finish? Seems a bit shitty.

i mean i could see reigns/seth/dean aka moxley

dean being third party who left wwe and changes his name might make sense? might be like a multiple lyncher who wants to get both reigns/seth killed

just speculating trying to understand the claim

Shield-scum was my first thought yeah

[Battle Mage]

ok caught up

i read bm as pretty heavy town here on his interactions, but i dont know that drews push isnt genuine.

@bm can you state your reasons for the 50jp scumread? clearly

that's lucky because you're like my only town-read

maybe we do have a chance in this game...

I'll come back to this shortly.

[Battle Mage]

So what do you think? Does this clear me or you want me to convince ya more?

If true, then that's pretty awesome imho. And tbh, I don't see you coming up with that out of thin air, so I'm inclined to believe it. Thank you.

P.S. That doesn't seem like something you should have hidden either. I mean, I understand not saying anything on D1, but as soon as FL flipped there was nothing to worry about revealing it anymore and especially so when you have already used the finisher at least once.

The only thing that gives me pause is that that Lavender hemmed and hawed about revealing, could have been coached by scum about the details.

But, I do seriously doubt that since so far the town flips have been babyfaces and the scum/third party flips have been heels(I believe, I should double check that). And if Lavender is lying than almost guarantee there is the real Roman Reigns.

im a heel, traditionally, and im town, so this theory is not correct

I'm also a (beloved) heel!

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Lavender

Claimed Roman Reigns. Don't buy anything else in the claim. Why would Seth have a third party hunting him, and a town party immune from his finish? Seems a bit shitty.

i mean i could see reigns/seth/dean aka moxley

dean being third party who left wwe and changes his name might make sense? might be like a multiple lyncher who wants to get both reigns/seth killed

just speculating trying to understand the claim

Er, is Dean Karnage's role?

nope, Karnage was Bray Wyatt

[Battle Mage]

I really just don't know about this game. Feels like almost anyone could be scum, and looking at vote patterns, everyone has an equally crap record.

[Battle Mage]

So, are guys like Dwayne Johnson, Rick Flair, Chris Jericho & Steve Austin all considered "faces"?

Flair would be a heel probably.

[Battle Mage]

Tony Atlas

[Battle Mage]

Noting votes on me. I'm confirmed town, so not gonna bother responding to cases tbh. if you wanna run me up a bit and force a claim, go ahead. otherwise we can actually lynch someone who could be scum...