Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[SirCakez]

and we're just getting into nitpicky semantics at this point anyways

[SirCakez]

I feel I have poked holes via my explanations of my prior posts. But yeah I think this engagement will not produce any more of use to either of us right now, I'm getting frustrated and I think other peoples' inputs will be good. And dw I'm not taking it personally.

Also I changed my mind b/c I think if you are town this will help: here's a good game to look at me getting mislynched under high pressure. I remember this one better than others because I got so pissed off in it: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=77774
I got really frustrated with the whole playerlist pretty much in that game, especially Gorkington who your push kinda reminds me of.

[SirCakez]

It was a one-lynch game where I spent literally the whole game as the top wagon
so that's the kind of "mislynch frustration" I'm referring to under my town meta

[SirCakez]

here's another good one: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=77611

[SirCakez]

I will dig around

[SirCakez]

I feel like I've never hidden my meta? No one's really asked me about it like this before.
I have expressed my hatred of being mislynched before for sure.

[SirCakez]

i'm going back to my old games and tbh I'm struggling to find games where just one person pushed me consistently
usually I get pushed to a big wagon pretty fast
this is ""usually"" given most of my games were ~3-4 years ago

[SirCakez]

I can provide plenty of games I've been mislynched in though lol

[SirCakez]

you can probably keep skimming tbf

[SirCakez]

farside prob town?

Why did you feel this after she made like two posts? What from those posts seemed town?

gut vibes
tbh I just want to townread farside lol

[SirCakez]

yeah going back there's not really anything especially town from her posts yet
I think I was just excited she entered the game

[SirCakez]

Gobbles do you think Mastina is town now?

I am wiling to bet if SirCakez is scum, TH is locktown.

explain?

[SirCakez]

what have I backtracked on besides the farside read?

[SirCakez]

or the self-meta b/c I can't find example games

[SirCakez]

I mean yeah those two things but there's a lot of other things I have explained further and not backed down on. like me not sheeping RC, my "good sign" post, my SR on Vecna, etc

[SirCakez]

GIF has not declared a TR on Baezu???

[SirCakez]

yeah going back there's not really anything especially town from her posts yet
I think I was just excited she entered the game

Those quotes I referenced, do you really think Mastina could fake that?

What are you talking about here?
That post you quoted of mine were talking about farside..

[SirCakez]

Gobble I appreciate you going to bat for me but I feel dredging up that argument again is not gonna go anywhere productive

[SirCakez]

I would like to wagon Baezu or Vecna. I still think Vecna is being really survivalistic and not progressing the game in a town fashion.

[SirCakez]

Lie Ren is one of the slots I need to iso. Tomorrow hopefully. I know some people think they are scummy I've just been focused elsewhere.
Same for jjh and Shuichi.

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

And town consensus right now is that WANH TH Vecna Baezu are all town with the possible exception of Baezu which well nah.

I don't think this is true? I don't have a TR on any of them, for example. I know I'm not the only one.

I don’t really wanna play

But it’s not because I’m scum

It’s just because

And I don’t wanna go because I hope I’ll wanna play again soon and it’s just a temporary feeling

-wall

Spoiler:

even though you're scum it's nice to play with you mastina

The pleasure is all mine since I'll be nightkilled ages before you due to not being scum and radiating an aura of threatening presence warranting my death. (Am I a N1 nightkill? No, almost assuredly not, but I just have a

feeling

that scum will kill me before the end of the game. I have a very specific reason for feeling that way, too, but I shouldn't voice that reason because it'd be anti-town to have done so, already have hinted at it but basically, is related to the setup. I think the setup specifically will incentivize scum to kill me before lylo hits.)

On that note, to get the ball rolling, updated readslist:
We are not helping
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
SirCakez
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Baezu

Amrun
Shuichi Saihara

northsidegal
Trojan Horses
Jormungand
Lie Ren
Wonderwall

Bernadetta
RadiantCowbells

100% locktown, strong town, weak town, nulltown, null, scum.

For mental reference, the half I can vote is,
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Amrun

northsidegal
Wonderwall

...Which is easy enough, poe, nsg + Wonderwall are the scumteam on my half.
VOTE: Wonderwall.

I don't agree with you on elmo... I dont like his 146

I think Baezu is town for this.

~N

Is there anything else you're TRing Baezu for? I'm not seeing it in this post.

And why are Cakez, Ren voting Baezu?

~N

B/c I thought a wagon was developing there and she's one of my top SRs.

I would like to wagon Baezu or Vecna. I still think Vecna is being really survivalistic and not progressing the game in a town fashion.

If I was being survivalistic, I wouldve put your ass on L1. Or I wouldve taken a strance against the easy lynches like PH or Baezu

Instead im doing a genuine attempt to read your shit and all slots in this game. Stop this nonsense

What I really want is to rally halloween to start focussing on Schuichi, Ren Lui and potentially RC.

The fact your refusing to see this is just worrysome.

Both slots you want to focus on here are town.

Actually, cakez calling me survivalistic after picking a big fight with RC is the biggest bullshit comment in this entire game and shows he's either not reading or he's just making up shit

I will give you this. I think survivalistic was the wrong word. I was referring to the "unvote me" stuff you've been saying.

Christmas should wagon Elmo Teh Azn

Agree with this

[SirCakez]

Mastina you realize you're alienating everyone with your posting style right now, right?

[SirCakez]

RC why is GIF town here? he hasn't done anything and the previous person in the slot wasn't particularly townie.
I think mastina needs to flip at this point for game progression. Her recent posting is just awful and her feud with RC (and everyone really) is super antitown and destroying the thread.

anyways I'm gonna do those ISOs now

[SirCakez]

Lie Ren could definitely be scum. I'm not really seeing much town motivation or scumhunting in their posts. A lot of coasting-esque posts. A lot of useless posts/active posting. 1114 was bad. Not really any thought to the reads.
My only concern is, knowing that Gamma is behind the alt, that it's just his awkwardness coming off as scumminess.

[SirCakez]

GIF isn't locktown but the game makes way more sense if GIF is town and Mastina knows it (and note Mastinas comment on the GIF replacement indicating she could easily have known) and as long as I have no reason to disbelieve my current view of the game I am going to stick with it and lynch the highest equity slots that fit with it.

is this from gamesolving from playerlists? as opposed to reads on the slot by itself.

[SirCakez]

if a Vecna wagon reforms I will back on there in a flash

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Vecna

L-1

[SirCakez]

someone in Halloween give intent please

[SirCakez]

I've given up on trying to engage mastina btw

[SirCakez]

do we know how night works? like if one game hammers can the other game still keep posting and such?

[SirCakez]

???

[SirCakez]

so I now know why I haven't had a read on jjh the whole game
cux they barely post content
they can go into the scumpile

[SirCakez]

cuz*

[SirCakez]

now I have too many SRs in Christmas :/

[SirCakez]

nsg's ISO is pretty town so that makes things easier. I'd be TRing her anyway cuz my other TRs are and I don't have experience with her.

[SirCakez]

Vecna were you scum?

[SirCakez]

Who am I tunneling??

[SirCakez]

I've given up on trying to engage mastina btw

Is that the only reason you're trying to get Vecna lynched right now?
Can you scum case him?

No I've been SRing him for a while you know that...I just wasn't aware a wagon had reformed.
I don't like to make cases; I feel my reasons for SRing him have been made clear.

P-edit: that meta is really old. Farside has admitted she is not playing the same way anymore no?

[SirCakez]

Spoiler: vecna posts

Lol vecna is already starting to shade me in his catch up this is a good sign

What pinged about Vecna’s entrance?

How long after replacing in do you know your slot needs salvaging as town?

How long after replacing in do you know your slot needs salvaging as scum?

basically the Amished Tell, the first thing scum does when they replace in is ISO themself and see how screwed they are by what predecessor said/did (also to check for any fake claims)

town would do that less, because they know they're town and whatever the person they replaced said was true and genuine regardless of scummy or not

then, a lot of scum think that the best way to cover this is to acknowledge it to come across as town

but then they're acknowledging their predecessor was scummy

it's just yikes all around

This tell works!! Molla also +town points for catching it.

is this like an all star game or what

It's not farside22 lol

wonderwall shading me is cracking me up

Cakez does really love the buzzwords all the time. Any scumread is automatically shading. Do not like

Ya I do love em. Makes it easier for me to communicate with fewer words.

Like maybe I'm confbiased here because I had a decently strong SR on Jorgun and Vecna is dissing on me but I don't feel town from this entrance at all. In fact, I think this sort of spammy "look at my huge wall of catchup!!" type of posting is more indicative of scum trying to clean up a slot.
Like GiF's entrance here reads more town.

In fact, I think this sort of spammy "look at my huge wall of catchup!!" type of posting is more indicative of scum trying to clean up a slot.

Do you not think town would want to try and clean up their slot?

Yes but not in such an aggressive manner. It reads kinda desperate, especially in a no-deadlines game.
Just look at the Amished tell stuff Molla posted

Why was Vecna shading you a good sign, SirFakez?

B/c scum would be looking to put new lynch candidates on the table here since Jormun/Vecna was turning into the designated lynch for Game Halloween.

It's not farside22 lol

Isn't it?

ohhhh that's awesome! I thought it was just someone else who happened to have the same name.

VOTE: baezu
I'm in for this. Her recent posts are so scummy.
I want to go back to Vecna at some point though. 2075 and his Ceph case in general suck. 2082 is TERRIBLE. The Wonderwall defense reeks too.
I wish Wonderwall was not coasting on nothing....
farside prob town?

Actually,

before

NSG's analysis, I'd like to hear everyone else's analysis on reactions to the fakehammer, on Mastina, WANH, RC, me.
I personally have one small note about this but I'll say that afterwards.

I kinda liked it for town

I actually think Mastina is town here. Im not completely willing to go crusader mode over it, but the signs for me are here:

I do not think scum would get this worked up over these reasons. This feels like town being angry over injustice. It could be scum being upset about being wagoned for the wrong reasons, but this feels a bit bigger than that.

I am not certain scum would do the early readslists with so many holes. This is a weak point.

I know from a bunch of games, that whenever Mastina has a lot of very strong opinions on slots that go against the grain, and are polar opposites of mine, but she still feels that they are "very obvious correct reads" its usually a towntell.

Tunneling down on RC=scum would not be a smart move to do as scum vs town RC. It is certain to trigger the death tunnel. Bad idea at L1 as scum. Makes sense if thats what u really believe as town about to die.

Have you played with mastina before?

this isnt 2017 anymore vecna

u have no idea what i am capable of

LOL

I think Vecna slot is scummy -> scum need someone else to put on the lynch table who isn't Vecna -> Vecna immediately starts making me look bad and discrediting me in his entrance = good sign Vecna is scum trying to put someone else on the table

[SirCakez]

I'm full on SRing mastina now ftr. That farside meta thing is absolutely ridiculous.

[SirCakez]

Pagetop

[SirCakez]

Can Christmas put votes on mastina and end the pain
Thx

[SirCakez]

Also can someone among (Trojan Horses, Lie Ren, Baezu, GIF) give intent on Vecna
Thanks

[SirCakez]

Im starting to hate this game
Please lynch someone
Anyone

[SirCakez]

jjh isn't close to being hammered

[SirCakez]

Cakez is on Vecna with me I thought.

I am along with WANH and Shuichi. Vecna is at L-1.
Either TH, Baezu, Lie Ren or GIF has to hammer

[SirCakez]

Elmo is a universal scumread I think
That tree can be chopped later
LET ME POST

[SirCakez]

I wonder if mastina is hammered and we aren't aware because of lack of vc haha

[SirCakez]

No jjh only has 2 or 3 votes on them

[SirCakez]

Baezu/Lie Ren, please don't hammer Vecna.

Who is your alternative?

The only vote on mastina right now is farside FYI I just checked

[SirCakez]

People keep going "oh I need to wait for x or x to post before I vote!!"
WHO CARES
We've been talking for weeks!!
So sick of this

[SirCakez]

That's not just aimed at nsg
P-edit: because this thread is horrendous and waiting for those three to produce content could take forever and I don't feel it will help us. It's not like any of them will be the NK.

[SirCakez]

I feel like a lot is gained if we hammer someone and get a flip for info rather than sitting here and letting another 50 pages be produced and thus dissuade the people who are 50 pages behind even more.

[SirCakez]

so then i assume you think they all must be town? that is, if you don't care about waiting for them so we can read them, as it seems to me

No I think some of them are scum
But we can get to them tomorrow
If they're scum they will not die unless vig
If they're town there's no way they get killed by scum.

[SirCakez]

A jjh flip is ok I guess
At least it's SOMETHING

[SirCakez]

No I think some of them are scum
But we can get to them tomorrow
If they're scum they will not die unless vig
If they're town there's no way they get killed by scum.

And what will prevent you from saying the same things you're saying now, tomorrow?

Pedit: Stop it fire, I'm the bully remember?

Flips

[SirCakez]

Yeah I think mastina is scum regardless of flip

[SirCakez]

Halloween will stay open while Christmas goes to night
So we can sort out Vecna w/o the mastina shitfest in thread

[SirCakez]

literally any of them
nsg obvtowned and the read hasnt changed, why?

Well aside from the fact that nsg hasn't obvtowned yet.
There's the fact that my reads have changed, quite provably so.

Oh
I don't understand this games mechanics

[SirCakez]

Ftr I was not being hyperbolic when I said some players were 50 pages behind
Elmo and GIF haven't posted in that long

[SirCakez]

Or lie ren

[SirCakez]

Jjh were you scum?

[SirCakez]

Jjh were you scum?

Wait did I get lynched wtf

Yup mastina lolhammered you

[SirCakez]

Actually I'm not joking this time
Farside made a VC of it

[SirCakez]

Vote Count #1.10
Halloween	Christmas
With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! SirCakez (1): Trojan Horses, Baezu (1): Lie Ren, Trojan Horses (1): Lie Ren (1): Vecna (4): We are not helping,Radiant Cowbells, Shuichi Saihara, SirCakez, We are not helping (0): Radiant Cowbells (0): GuyInFreezer (0): Shuichi Saihara (0): Vecna Not Voting (2): GuyInFreezer, baezu	With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! mastina (1): Not Mafia, jjh (5): Wonderwalll, Gobbledegook, BBMolla, farside, mastina Not_Mafia (1):Elmo teh AzN, Northsidegal (0): Wonderwalll (0): Elmo teh AzN (0): farside (0): Gobbledegook (0): BBMolla (0): Not Voting (3): jjh, , northsidegal,

This is an unofficial vote count, but if i'm correct that was a hammer.

[SirCakez]

my urgency on that is fairly low, especially given that, as i understand it, the thread remains open during the night.

Didn't Cakez say it locks? Oh it's public that it remains open, is it? Don't recall, will read up

I have no idea

[SirCakez]

Mastina's hammer was soooo bad
She has to go tomorrow

[SirCakez]

Unless I missed something, this was a flashwagon that occurred after I made the first and only promise I have made to actually work on getting into this game rather than just complaining about how I couldn't

I'm gonna go back to this though
I am immensely suspicious that my promise to catch up and my immediate lynch are connected

Mastina voted you for that post
So yeah

[SirCakez]

Weren't there early indicators of jjh-mastina being scum together

[SirCakez]

If there's daychat I can't imagine what the scum thread looks like right now lmao

[SirCakez]

I've given up on trying to engage mastina btw

Yeah and that's entirely your fault because I'm entirely willing to engage with you but when you call me scum, call my posting antitown, call me shit, that's entirely on YOUR end, not mine.

No
You caused me to want to stop engaging with your constant flaming, cursing and general aura of anger
I never once called you shit. Your angry cursing flaming posts are anti-town though.
When all you do is scream at people there's no point trying to reason.

[SirCakez]

Mastina I actually have a high regard of your play
But I would disengaged with ANYONE who is posting like you are currently

[SirCakez]

We can still lynch vecna rc...

[SirCakez]

Hai jingle

[SirCakez]

??????

[SirCakez]

Just because we can still lynch vecna =/= I want to RIGHT NOW
I want to see the flip

[SirCakez]

Ok he was town

[SirCakez]

Is mastina just ignoring that jjh is hammered and flipped town

[SirCakez]

Just because we can still lynch vecna =/= I want to RIGHT NOW
I want to see the flip

I am kinda confident Christmas will have NSG killed, then Mastina quicklynched to flip town

Hmm
Who are the Christmas scums then

[SirCakez]

Who are the Christmas scums then

I think Elmo is one. Dunno about the other.

This answer isn't great for obvious reasons.

[SirCakez]

It still could be WW

[SirCakez]

This answer isn't great for obvious reasons

Why so?

Because if you're gonna defend the leading wagon in that game you should have some idea of who the alternative scum are

[SirCakez]

And Elmo is like a freebie scumread

[SirCakez]

What is that if not defense, TH?

[SirCakez]

RC who do you think other scum besides vecna is in halloween

[SirCakez]

What is that if not defense, TH?

So I cannot think that someone is town, without having an idea of the scum solve?

Sorry, but I'm not grokking your logic here. I feel like even if I was defending someone, I can do so from townreading them and having a gamestate read for what scum are doing? I don't see why I'd need to have solid scumreads first to do any of that.

Yeah I suppose you're right.
If you had to guess gun to your head besides Elmo who would it be?

[SirCakez]

Yeah I suppose you're right.
If you had to guess gun to your head besides Elmo who would it be?

N_M. I wanna say Molla but I don't think I can read him reliably, and he seems to be consensus town anyway.

Hmm
N_M is really hard for me to read. Did anything ping you there aside from predecessor?

[SirCakez]

RC just ignore her

[SirCakez]

Hmm
N_M is really hard for me to read. Did anything ping you there aside from predecessor?

No, I'm just PoE-ing from there.
NSG and Gobble both feel town.
Wonderwall has weak reasons to be town.
Farside has reasons to be town.
I think Mastina is still town despite what she did.
Leaves Elmo, Molla, N_M.

I see

jjh isn't close to being hammered

Pretty much, yeah.

jjh isn't at risk of being lynched.

So I can vote him to make my stance on him known.

LOLOLOLOLOL

[SirCakez]

Trojan I forgot if you said earlier but who is your preferred lynch in Halloween rn?

[SirCakez]

Trojan I forgot if you said earlier but who is your preferred lynch in Halloween rn?

Right now? Sushi.

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

[SirCakez]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

I would not b/c I think Vecna and Baezu are scummier and I don't see the scumcase for Shuichi atm.
Your latter sentence is true. How are you applying that to Vecna?

[SirCakez]

Trojan I forgot if you said earlier but who is your preferred lynch in Halloween rn?

Right now? Sushi.

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Auro did question my tr on SS. Apparently he has quite an impressive scum meta?

Auro was just trolling all of you when he offered to carte blanche sheep Gobbles. He wouldn’t even sheep nsg unless he was convinced she was right.

I can’t speak for Auro, I will have to reread (or actually just read)your respective ISOs.

I can't tell you guys apart because you don't sign and I'm really bad at reading who's who in a hydra, fyi
Cephrir is really good at scum
P-edit: I would explore Lie Ren, sure.

[SirCakez]

go to bed whoever posted that in TH!!!!!
P-edit: I want to stay on Vecna but I also want to be reasonable with TH :/

[SirCakez]

atm I believe TH is town who just is very aggressive in their pushes and takes a lot to reconsider. a la Gork
at least for whoever the head I've been primarily engaging with

[SirCakez]

Cephrir is really good at scum

Cool - so what has he done exactly to merit a townread?

-Stuxnet

his early posts felt quite genuine
and I really like his engagements over the last ~20 pages - he's had exactly the same thoughts as me re;the mastina mess
but this is definitely one of my weaker TRs given his meta

[SirCakez]

go to bed whoever posted that in TH!!!!!
P-edit: I want to stay on Vecna but I also want to be reasonable with TH :/

I pretty much just woke up. Why is Vecna scum? He seems super townie to me?

~N

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

[SirCakez]

his early posts felt quite genuine
and I really like his engagements over the last ~20 pages - he's had exactly the same thoughts as me re;the mastina mess

See, I feel like scum would also have the same thoughts, and even then this is such an easy thing to posture with. A lot of his gameplay seems to be that - commentary on the game/players without what I see is legitimate analysis.

-Stuxnet

Can you point to some specific posts that show this?

[SirCakez]

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

The Amished tell doesn't quite fit in this scenario, I think. How do you know he checked the ISO and not just the votecount on replacing in? And I think the applicability of this tell varies per player (as do all generic tells), Vecna doesn't seem the type to do that more likely as scum. His pride and repeated calling of his "freestyle streams" as being towny doesn't feel like a scum move, really.

And yes, he was explicitly concerned about getting off lynch. He stated he's salvaging the slot, no?

I concede that Joe Burger was scummy, although even there we don't have access to completed town games to see how his scum meta matches up.

Parts where I'd have to check your ISO, later

-Stuxnet

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

[SirCakez]

before I respond to some questions aimed at me I just want to say I am very close to PMing the listmods. I'm sick of this argument, it's gone way over the line and I like the players in this game and don't want it to end in replacements and bans.

[SirCakez]

Can you point to some specific posts that show this?

You know, I went to his ISO and began quoting a lot of posts - can you take a look at it and tell me how much legitimate analysis he's offering (which in roleplay mode should be higher than normal, really) versus snark or noise?

-Stuxnet

I will ISO Shuichi tomorrow, he's someone I didn't hit today. Remind me if I don't.

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

I'm making a judgment on his character from current play to arrive at that conclusion. And also, Amished tell involves ISO reading, do you see evidence of that? Also, another question - if you replaced into a slot would you not check a VC before diving in?

A Mastina scumflip would make me reconsider a lot of my solve, but I don't see how it fits with Vecna. What's the link?

-Stuxnet

I think in the context of Vecna's catchup he may have easily self-ISOed. In some cases I would- I have replaced in before without reading VCs though.

To be fair, it's also difficult for me to keep track of votes especially with all the cross-game votes

That is a good point, this game with its unique mechanics are really confusing.

Why are you voting Vecna?

@Vecna, can you link one of your scumgames? @Cakes too, preferably. I’m already familiar with SS and he played quite differently in PA so dunno. \_0_/

Fair warning this are old
Was converted to scum mid-game here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68608
This game is pretty famous, I won in LyLo as scum here: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=69902
I was in the hydra Salt Squad in a weird sort of scum role here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67413
Was third-party sort-of scum here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66512
Was scum lynched day 1 here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68256
Replaced in as scum mid game here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65649

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

The Amished tell doesn't quite fit in this scenario, I think. How do you know he checked the ISO and not just the votecount on replacing in? And I think the applicability of this tell varies per player (as do all generic tells), Vecna doesn't seem the type to do that more likely as scum. His pride and repeated calling of his "freestyle streams" as being towny doesn't feel like a scum move, really.

And yes, he was explicitly concerned about getting off lynch. He stated he's salvaging the slot, no?

I concede that Joe Burger was scummy, although even there we don't have access to completed town games to see how his scum meta matches up.

Parts where I'd have to check your ISO, later

-Stuxnet

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

Can you link/quote a game, where Mastina played exactly like this as scum?

I am not aware of any other mastina scum games honestly. at least in my immediate memory.

[SirCakez]

oh yeah @TH the link between Mastina-Vecna is gamestate from VCs. I think with the wagons at the time competing but neither being sent home it fits.

[SirCakez]

Why is TH making work for people?

cuz Auro hates me lol

I mean auros other heads are townreading Ceph and he's voting Ceph anyway.

Also this is false lol
I haven't voted Ceph
SirFakez asked me who I'd *want* to vote for and I said Ceph - I'm entitled to a personal opinion.

This feels similar to when people asked me for more reasons on my SirFakez scumread and I gave them and suddenly got attacked on a bunch of fronts

-Stuxnet

why am I SirFakez?

[SirCakez]

cuz Auro hates me lol

Although I know you're joking, I'll just say again: It's never personal, I like you as a player and did like you in Excalibur (although my vague memory is that you were a lot more aggro there?) where we played together last

I use shitty nicknames for everyone if I get a chance!

It makes it harder to ctrl+f for associations in my ISO

@Sushi: it's that large Krazy game where you replaced Dann afair

-Stuxnet

I know I'm just joshing you back haha
I don't even remember Excalibur honestly...at the time I was extremely busy with work and the game was an afterthought which is probably why I don't remember it lol
I was more aggro in general in my past. I think I've grown more empathetic and less angry during my break.

[SirCakez]

tbh I can't name any specific games for Ceph meta I just have this conception of him as a player in my head and I'm sticking to it!

[SirCakez]

I misinterpret everything you say
I'm giving up

[SirCakez]

Why would a two person hood be conftown?

[SirCakez]

Oh interesting
I personally usually put scum in most of my setups for the opposite reason, creates fun paranoia

[SirCakez]

Trojan are you unvoting me just because I'm willing to explore Lie Ren!scum or are there other reasons?

[SirCakez]

Baezu please don't replace out

[SirCakez]

Trojan are you unvoting me just because I'm willing to explore Lie Ren!scum or are there other reasons?

Stuxnet what's your response to this? Is it just that Nancy doesn't want to vote me?
Join the Vecna wagon!

[SirCakez]

VECNA STOP SPAMMING

[SirCakez]

Just put all your notes in one post some of these things are irrelevant now cuz you're really far behind and stuff has happened

[SirCakez]

You aren't at L-1 anymore WANH and RC invited
Jjh HAS ACTUALLY been speedhammered and flipped town

[SirCakez]

*unvoted not invited
This sort of catch-up dissuades people who are behind from reading the thread because they have to slog through dozens of extra posts.

[SirCakez]

My primary reason continues to be your overreaction to any and all pressure on you. Just look at your posts over the last two pages.

[SirCakez]

Vecna - right now mastina has no credibility in my eyes because even if she's town she must be incredibly tilted. I'm not going to rely on those reads.
Why in half of your posts towards me do you shade me and call me scum and in the other half you see town motivation? See 3298, for example.

Nancy when will you have time to read the game then engage with me

That may take awhile. Anything you suggest in particular I look out for, keep in mind?

I still don’t get how we were ever your “ideal lynch” when Auro has been so obviously town?

At literally no point have you been my favorite lynch.

What is your thought on this post Cakez.

Do you feel this is a fair post to make from RC? Im asking you especially now, because RC really wanted to lynch this slot for quite some time, and you have finally come around now.

I mean I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm TRing TH rn.

You aren't at L-1 anymore WANH and RC invited
Jjh HAS ACTUALLY been speedhammered and flipped town

My primary reason continues to be your overreaction to any and all pressure on you. Just look at your posts over the last two pages.

That is NAI for Vecna and for a lot of people. I get wrongly sr for that all the damn time. Why do people auto assume, if you don’t want to be lynched, you defacto have to be scum?

There's a difference between town and scum reactions to wagons.

Can someone with Vecna experience confirm his self-meta analysis?
I'm willing to go back to a Baezu wagon

[SirCakez]

I see

[SirCakez]

Vecna interactions with RC not great
I'll admit some confbias though

@Cakez:

Understand now why the newby predecessor was so twitchy?

I don't see it?

This argument sucks and is just filling up the pages more

[SirCakez]

who dat

[SirCakez]

i know lol

[SirCakez]

SirCakez, do you buy Vecna's meta of being prideful in being townread as town?
If you do, does this update your read on him?
If not, are you going to verify this by yourself?

-Stuxnet

I think it's possible but even if this is his meta he seems to be making posts that are just antitown in their aggressiveness.
I was hoping someone else could just confirm it for me rather than my own meta dive which I will probably be confbiased on.

[SirCakez]

I think it's possible but even if this is his meta he seems to be making posts that are just antitown in their aggressiveness.
I was hoping someone else could just confirm it for me rather than my own meta dive which I will probably be confbiased on.

Which posts strike you as anti-town that's disproportionately aggressive compared to the slot that's pushing him?
It's like you call anyone pushing RC as being anti-town.
Why?

/insert something about a hydra head getting cut off and then another reason to push someone as scum or a variant taking its place

-Stuxnet

I would say most of Vecna's posts over the last ~4 pages fall under this.
I'm not intentionally trying to call people pushing RC antitown it just keeps happening that my SRs are pushing there. Like if you pushed RC or gobbles did I wouldn't call it antitown. Which tbh makes sense scum would want to get rid and sabotage town!RC's reads.

[SirCakez]

pagetop

[SirCakez]

oops
pagetop

[SirCakez]

damn GE has a lot of fun stuff to discover...
can we lynch baezu?

[SirCakez]

My request to lynch Bazeu was aimed at the general thread, not RC FYI

[SirCakez]

Ftr I found the game where I got super mad and salty at pieguyn for pushing a mislynch on me: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67479

I used to be a lot angrier ;_;

[SirCakez]

I'm glad I'm not anymore!

[SirCakez]

The fact that Vecna doesn't want to push mastina is another thing linking them also
I think TH asked me about that earlier

[SirCakez]

Mastina would probably do that as scum, yeah

[SirCakez]

My request to lynch Bazeu was aimed at the general thread, not RC FYI

Why are you still hung up on this?

???
I made a post about it last page and Vecna acted like I was asking RC's permission to vote

[SirCakez]

well this makes halloween easy
my vote is already on Vecna

[SirCakez]

this is an easy situation
we now have confscum between the two

[SirCakez]

it's not rocket science lol vecna

[SirCakez]

I misread the claim
but vecna your reaction here is bad

[SirCakez]

mmhmm

[SirCakez]

Cool, can we lynch him now that he's openly scumclaiming?

if you're aware RC fakes guilties
how is this an open scumclaim

[SirCakez]

well this game is about to change completely

[SirCakez]

no I'm actually hopeful that the pace will regulate without the flame wars
the posting might slow down but it would be for the better
and ofc less toxicity helps

[SirCakez]

yeah Vecna is still scum RC or no RC
I'm willing to let the game chill for a few days though while we wait for Christmas night to end and for replacements to arrive and catch up
and Lie/GIF/WW etc can finally catch up too

[SirCakez]

<3 Jingle!

[SirCakez]

Finish catching up TH...lol

[SirCakez]

Whoever replaces RC can confirm the claim thing

[SirCakez]

That was theoretical

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE:

[SirCakez]

Vecna won't have night results because Halloween is still in day

[SirCakez]

This is why people should put all their catchup in one post and wait until they're done.
All of TH's posts aimed at questioning RC are useless.

[SirCakez]

haha those players would make this game even more interesting

[SirCakez]

Maybe I should send Math a PM requesting they take the spot..

[SirCakez]

I can vibe with that Baezu.

[SirCakez]

This is why people should put all their catchup in one post and wait until they're done.
All of TH's posts aimed at questioning RC are useless.

Sorry. I am legit flabbergasted that he apparently still can’t read me unless I am literally the active hydra member. He got my slot misvigged in MG because he wrongly sr Krazy.

Don't worry I'm not attacking you as a player. I'm just kinda irked because less posting = protown right now.

[SirCakez]

Reminder to put catch-up in one post if possible @Eve

[SirCakez]

The open scumclaiming refers to RC not you Lie

[SirCakez]

Who else is TRing nsg?

[SirCakez]

I still am not interested in Sushi lynch

[SirCakez]

gobbles who is scum?

-wall

I hope you have more to contribute than this esp now that the game has slowed down

[SirCakez]

Gl redeeming your slot King lol

[SirCakez]

Wow!

[SirCakez]

Whoa this game suddenly got active again

[SirCakez]

Gl redeeming your slot King lol

More like King of the Getting Lynched Club

Can either of you link/quote a Mastina game where she played like this, because we’re hard tr that slot?

I can't recall any mastina scum game.

Gl redeeming your slot King lol

More like King of the Getting Lynched Club

Can either of you link/quote a Mastina game where she played like this, because we’re hard tr that slot?

I am not big into meta. To me, every mastina game of either alignment looks really similar. Lots of talking about herself, lots of repeating who feeeeeeeels like [alignment]. I thought she did a number of scummy things in this game and that's all I'm concerning myself with right now.

Well I’m not going to be persuaded to sr that slot, unless I can see at least one game, where she played the exact same way as scum. I have not seen survivalistic af scum!Mastina in any game I’ ever played with herbut I’ve seen plenty of towngames where she did just that.

This is a silly overreliance on meta.

I agree Lie's catch-up is bad and am willing to vote there. But I DO NOT WANT VECNA TO SLITHER OUT OF THIS. HE ABSOLUTELY HAS TO GO.

[SirCakez]

Just the fact Vecna has disappeared since RC, his main pusher, was replaced out is suspicious

[SirCakez]

I like meta to an extent but I would never use it as the sole reason to defend/push someone a little later in the game like you are. Meta can be altered/avoided and that's how people walk out with scum wins sometimes.

[SirCakez]

Lie it just feels awkward and surface level. Someone else said that and I agree.

[SirCakez]

And I could see RC being a major cause of the flip out.

[SirCakez]

Lie it just feels awkward and surface level. Someone else said that and I agree.

Okay, I could potentially see that. I will, however, follow that up by asking what you think of my posts that aren’t catching up?

I don't know because there aren't many
Finish catching up and then I'll see

[SirCakez]

I just recently made a bunch of posts talking about Eve, those weren’t catch up posts, so it feels like you’re taking a cop out.

Things are blending together
I'll look again tmrw

[SirCakez]

Town!RC should have at least some doubts about my slot. Him having a definitive sr on us on D freaking1, when we’ve been so blatantly obvtown, makes no sense.

This is rather misguided
Calling yourselves obvtown is a big stretch

[SirCakez]

If you were so "blatantly obvtown" then everyone in the game would be top TRing you. Obviously that isn't happening.

[SirCakez]

If you were so "blatantly obvtown" then everyone in the game would be top TRing you. Obviously that isn't happening.

People who are good at reading my meta are.

again the meta reliance

You know what, I want to chase this lead. SirCakez, why didn’t you consider Trojan being scum with Vecna?

I have considered this.

VOTE: mastina

ez game

Molla pls catch up...

Just the fact Vecna has disappeared since RC, his main pusher, was replaced out is suspicious

Lmao, wtf? I was the only one posting for a long time just like 10h before this post.

I live in a different timezone. Youre really gonna be surprised im "disappearing" while its between midnight and 8am where I live?

fucking hell youre desperate to lynch me

my sense of time sucks and I wasn't aware your timezone was different

[SirCakez]

would I be insane if I said Vecna's moonlogic theory sort of makes sense?
I don't know if it's right but it's theoretically possible
I find it hard to believe mastina and RC are buddies though
P-edit: I want to see Shuichi respond to the case first
And GIF is getting replaced

[SirCakez]

I reallllly want death to the mastina slot

[SirCakez]

Like I think the mastina slot flipping breaks this game wide open

[SirCakez]

I think they can claim to be good at reading nancy and be wrong
or they could be scum lying yeah

[SirCakez]

well what evidence is there from past games?
I've been offsite for over a year

[SirCakez]

well what evidence is there from past games?
I've been offsite for over a year

I have a mild problem with your dismissal of something that's easily verifiable, without bothering to check if it's true or not in the first place - only asking me after I called you out on it

-Stuxnet

Well I wasn't aware of these prior instances so ofc you would call me out on it. I was wrong about something I didn't know about, yeah.
It's not so easy to just go dive into random ISOs of old games looking for evidence of correct prior reads...especially not knowing where to start.

[SirCakez]

P-edit: I want to see Shuichi respond to the case first

Wonderwall can be lynched whenever too

[SirCakez]

would I be insane if I said Vecna's moonlogic theory sort of makes sense?
I don't know if it's right but it's theoretically possible
I find it hard to believe mastina and RC are buddies though
P-edit: I want to see Shuichi respond to the case first
And GIF is getting replaced

So lets talk about this Cakez. Has that post changed your read on me?

Maybe? It's more townie than a lot of your other posts.
I just really want a flip in Halloween at this point and am willing to compromise on people who aren't you

[SirCakez]

I think the mastina slot flip will heavily affect my read on you Vecna
I feel Christmas should just go ahead and flip it at this point

[SirCakez]

Yeah I wish we could just vig 3/4 of the Christmas players tbh
This sucks

[SirCakez]

Not_mafia/DDL could die
Wonderwall could die
Elmo could die
King of the britons/mastina could die

Ugh

[SirCakez]

The Gif slot has sucked all game too
Watch all of the scum be lurkers and all of the shitflinging in thread was TvT fights

[SirCakez]

Shuichi if not TH who will you lynch?

[SirCakez]

Cuz rn it seems like we are at a deadlock in Halloween

[SirCakez]

What if we just lynched all of the lurkers????

[SirCakez]

I would say it's weird that WANH has been posting less but I might get crap for it

[SirCakez]

Fire does lurk as town sometimes

[SirCakez]

yeah I think Shuichi is town here

[SirCakez]

I think everyone can agree on a Lie Ren or GIF!slot lynch in Halloween?

[SirCakez]

Wall a better question would be how could anyone not SR us lol

[SirCakez]

Because you've been lurking almost the whole game and when you are here you do little to help town
P-edit: and posts like that

[SirCakez]

If you're mad, do something to town up your slot now that you're here

[SirCakez]

Ok WW I will lay off. I think now that the game has slowed down and the most toxic people have been ejected it should be easier for you to engage here.

[SirCakez]

It was along those lines yes.

[SirCakez]

In Christmas I think

us
gobble
NSG

molla I don't really see as town but NSG and gobbles do so I guess they're okay for now

mastina!slot? -- idk I have some doubts here that she'd treat RC like that as scum

(farside, NM, elmo) would be my likely pool

-wall

Why farside scum?

[SirCakez]

Ceph I don't remember you being so angry for some reason

[SirCakez]

I have a crazy theory.

VOTE: wonderwall

I'm sure I will be laughed out of this game but I have a bit of a scum read on BB reading back. He really is just a bunch of one liners. He called mastina scum but gave very little reason's for any of his scum reads.
He interacted with wonderwall but let his weirdness slide without prodding and as much as it pains me to say. Mastina and I have never really agreed with scum reads.....ever. She tends to be more right then I am so I am going this route for now.

A WW vote isn't controversial.
Molla seems more town here though? He's always a bunch of one-liners and his posts have shown town motivation. Especially around the mastina stuff.

In Christmas I think

us
gobble
NSG

molla I don't really see as town but NSG and gobbles do so I guess they're okay for now

mastina!slot? -- idk I have some doubts here that she'd treat RC like that as scum

(farside, NM, elmo) would be my likely pool

-wall

Why farside scum?

their reads have seemed very ephemeral

like they started off with a scumpool of (me, elmo, ddl) -> flipped to it being (jjh, mastina) -> just seemed like as they caught up they adjusted their reads to avoid rocking the boat along with going for a TR on us which I think is quite a safe play for scum -> if they know we'll flip town and that we're a reasonable lynch prospect I think being on the right side of things can be good when their content isn't great either

now they're sheeping one of their scum reads (walked back for what I don't think makes sense given their earlier take on mastina) on one of their TRs (us) for no reason I can see beyond people are suddenly talking much more about lynching us

hmm I see

[SirCakez]

Not huge on Trojan Horse

RC Mastina pulled the whole “I read the rules so I know this thing about scum” and 9/10 it comes from scum trying to get Town cred

I don't really think any one post shows Molla's town motivation @farside
But a general ISO shows engagement and motivation beyond his scum meta.
This read is somewhat heavily meta reliant I'll admit.

[SirCakez]

what happened to the king of the britons?