Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[Trojan Horses]

you're just making shit up at this point dude

How about the posts in WF after you noticed I was scum in Newbie 1893?

[Trojan Horses]

Sure, Molla.

I'm reeeaaallly hoping NSG is indeed town because my game seems easily PoE-able, prolly could just lynch both scum in my game.

[Trojan Horses]

Gobble I appreciate you going to bat for me but I feel dredging up that argument again is not gonna go anywhere productive

+Town points
SirCakez anyone you wanna wagon in our game?
Wanna wagon Kylo Ren?

[Trojan Horses]

Oh yay NSG is back!

[Trojan Horses]

for what it's worth, i think people have a tendency to be put off by how auro plays the game

Also, I apologise to everyone if my style is that off-putting
If NSG wants me to shut up for a bit I'll prolly do so

[Trojan Horses]

I just wanna build a wagon on LyLo Ren and see what happens.
Vecna seems to have a meta scumread on him he didn't explain yet but I'm happy to just sheep that.

NSG, do you agree on:
Vecna strongly town, WANH town, Baezu towny?

Do you think Sushi is strongly town?

[Trojan Horses]

Frankly, I think as town RC would be really concerned about scum!Trojan successfully building consensus towards a pool that he thinks has both scum in it.
I think he would be going all-in on us, in spite of NSG calling us "more than likely town".

[Trojan Horses]

Is this pagetop?

[Trojan Horses]

Idk I think I need to have confidence in myself to play mafia and rn I don’t feel like I’m very good and I’m having a lot of doubts that I’m actually any better than random

Heyo, pretty sure most people are ~random!
I don't think at all that I'm good, but we all keep learning, no?
I still play the game anyway since I enjoy almost all aspects of it - manipulating people as scum, trying to solve correctly if town (and trying to improve it), rhetoric and argumentation, interacting with people. Playing against good scum is joyful since it's harder to form reads.

[Trojan Horses]

Now go ahead and make some wonderful walls for us to read

[Trojan Horses]

He does seem concerned about that, does he not?

Yeah he expressed some concern but it was sorta weak and I feel he'd be acting aggressively on that, no?

[Trojan Horses]

You know what, screw it. Your credibility in this game took a nosedive, even outside the laughable idea of having a townread on DDL at this moment.

@Stux, I think LR is town. Scum!Gamma doesn’t complex sort like he’s been doing here or make posts with this kind of conviction.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

I choose to believe he is channeling Gentleman 6 this game. I found that to be a very enjoyable version.

This is referencing that secret masquerade game, right? Was he outed as RC at some point in the game?
Do you recall any other examples of RC, as town, having a strong scumread on someone and yet not really pursuing them in a similar situation to now?

[Trojan Horses]

I think LyLo Ren is a good talking point right now. Vecna at least has a meta scumread, Nancy has a meta townread, RC thinks he's town, and I have no idea

[Trojan Horses]

i am really confused by people townreading vecna entrance but ok

I mean.
Vecna makes me want to lynch the slot less--his contributions are probably thusfar nai, his content so far is probably neither town nor scum, not outside his scumrange, not clearing him.

But like.

Gotta admit.

As hypocritical as it is to say this given my stance on nsg.
His content sure does make me not want to lynch him, at least right now. Where in spite of me knowing effort != alignment, his content feels like it's worth letting live for longer.

So I'd focus more on {RC, GIF, Shuichi}.

Why not the Ren lui slot?

why is the GIF slot not lock town to you over the stuff bernadette did?

I think you’re probably wrong on LR but I think Vecna’s town.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

i have literally

nothing in vecnas catchup

that makes me think they are town

Guess youre just not as good as this as you think you are then.

If you cannot read into this level of freeposting my thought process while catching up I guess you'll just have to continue to wrongly scumread me

hilariously fucking stupid post when i am just about the only person who opposes lynching you

That’s actually pretty funny that he would make that post.

Spoiler:

[Trojan Horses]

I choose to believe he is channeling Gentleman 6 this game. I found that to be a very enjoyable version.

This is referencing that secret masquerade game, right? Was he outed as RC at some point in the game?
Do you recall any other examples of RC, as town, having a strong scumread on someone and yet not really pursuing them in a similar situation to now?

I have only played a handful of games with RC, believe it or not. I don't even remember any besides that and baton pass.

You were in BP? Are you an alt?

Sorry, if you’ve already explained this.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

I choose to believe he is channeling Gentleman 6 this game. I found that to be a very enjoyable version.

This is referencing that secret masquerade game, right? Was he outed as RC at some point in the game?
Do you recall any other examples of RC, as town, having a strong scumread on someone and yet not really pursuing them in a similar situation to now?

I have only played a handful of games with RC, believe it or not. I don't even remember any besides that and baton pass.

You were in BP? Are you an alt?

Sorry, if you’ve already explained this.

~N

NM, I know who you are now.

I think you’re very obviously town, I think nsg is also.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

even though you're scum it's nice to play with you mastina

The pleasure is all mine since I'll be nightkilled ages before you due to not being scum and radiating an aura of threatening presence warranting my death. (Am I a N1 nightkill? No, almost assuredly not, but I just have a

feeling

that scum will kill me before the end of the game. I have a very specific reason for feeling that way, too, but I shouldn't voice that reason because it'd be anti-town to have done so, already have hinted at it but basically, is related to the setup. I think the setup specifically will incentivize scum to kill me before lylo hits.)

On that note, to get the ball rolling, updated readslist:
We are not helping
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
SirCakez
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Baezu

Amrun
Shuichi Saihara

northsidegal
Trojan Horses
Jormungand
Lie Ren
Wonderwall

Bernadetta
RadiantCowbells

100% locktown, strong town, weak town, nulltown, null, scum.

For mental reference, the half I can vote is,
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Amrun

northsidegal
Wonderwall

...Which is easy enough, poe, nsg + Wonderwall are the scumteam on my half.
VOTE: Wonderwall.

I don't agree with you on elmo... I dont like his 146

I think Baezu is town for this.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Um so I'm having some time constraints irl so I'll hopefully be on gear soon.

Please do, t would really help to be able to get a read on you.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Lol shit forgot GIF was in my game!

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I think you’re very obviously town, I think nsg is also.

Ah. Three heads, but only one brain. That must be rough. At least you got the whole brain.

It’s working out a lot better than in Post-Appocalypse anyway. Our collective “brain” was fractured in that game.

[Trojan Horses]

Vote Count #1.10
Halloween	Christmas
With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! SirCakez (3): Baezu, Trojan Horses, Shuichi Saihara, Baezu (2): Lie Ren, SirCakez, Trojan Horses (1): Radiant Cowbells, Lie Ren (1): Vecna, Vecna (1): We are not helping, We are not helping (0): Radiant Cowbells (0): GuyInFreezer (0): Shuichi Saihara (0): Not Voting (1): GuyInFreezer,	With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! mastina (2): Not Mafia, BBMolla, jjh (2): Wonderwalll, Gobbledegook, Not_Mafia (1):Elmo teh AzN, Northsidegal (1):mastina, Wonderwalll (0): Elmo teh AzN (0): farside (0): Gobbledegook (0): BBMolla (0): Not Voting (3): jjh, farside, northsidegal,

Why is Mastina voting nsg?

[Trojan Horses]

Vote Count #1.10
Halloween	Christmas
With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! SirCakez (3): Baezu, Trojan Horses, Shuichi Saihara, Baezu (2): Lie Ren, SirCakez, Trojan Horses (1): Radiant Cowbells, Lie Ren (1): Vecna, Vecna (1): We are not helping, We are not helping (0): Radiant Cowbells (0): GuyInFreezer (0): Shuichi Saihara (0): Not Voting (1): GuyInFreezer,	With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! mastina (2): Not Mafia, BBMolla, jjh (2): Wonderwalll, Gobbledegook, Not_Mafia (1):Elmo teh AzN, Northsidegal (1):mastina, Wonderwalll (0): Elmo teh AzN (0): farside (0): Gobbledegook (0): BBMolla (0): Not Voting (3): jjh, farside, northsidegal,

Why is Mastina voting nsg?

And why are Cakez, Ren voting Baezu?

@RC is that an RvS vote or are you actually sr us here?

~N

[Trojan Horses]

@Mastina, what is your current read on our slot. This is important.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

@RC is that an RvS vote or are you actually sr us here?

He's saying he scumreads us because we're obvtown and he doesn't want us NK'd, that's kinda sweet actually

[Trojan Horses]

@RC is that an RvS vote or are you actually sr us here?

He's saying he scumreads us because we're obvtown and he doesn't want us NK'd, that's kinda sweet actually

Really? <3

[Trojan Horses]

I should probably be paying more attention to my game but I think Nsg/Mastina is probably TvT.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Are you reading the game TH? Mastina voted for NSG for the hammer.

I am. And?
And no, seems like you're misreading it. NSG's hammer was a fake
I think farside can be town for this btw

[Trojan Horses]

We're kind of lost this game and have very split reads right now.

Give us all your individual reads, pl0x
We can start with the Halloween townie town townbloc - opinions on me and Vecna?

Christmas should wagon Elmo Teh Azn

[Trojan Horses]

What concerns do you have about Vecna?

[Trojan Horses]

I just wanna build a wagon on LyLo Ren and see what happens.
Vecna seems to have a meta scumread on him he didn't explain yet but I'm happy to just sheep that.

NSG, do you agree on:
Vecna strongly town, WANH town, Baezu towny?

Do you think Sushi is strongly town?

NSG?
I'm OK if you're not gonna answer this rn too

[Trojan Horses]

I wish to see NSG absolutely stomp as scum sometime

[Trojan Horses]

No, I don't really agree with those, with the possible exception of townleaning wanh and mr ultimate detective.

So do you have a somewhat decent solve for Halloween?

[Trojan Horses]

As scum, the mindset behind a fake hammer is to earn some quick cheap instant towncred; get people to townread you who weren't before, and increase the strength of existing townreads on your slot--sounds like a pretty good deal, doesn't it?

It doesn't prevent other town from using that information, though, and NSG could've easily faked "analyzing the reactions".

[Trojan Horses]

Wagons anywhere would be great

[Trojan Horses]

I will acknowledge that regardless of whether my read here is right on this being scum nsg, we're not getting an actual lynch on her today due to people insisting "but it must've been from a town nsg!!!".

@farside: Presumably because she's already pushed that slot, but people are townreading NSG and she (correctly) feels that she can't get a lynch there - don't you agree it's more productive to push elsewhere then?

Also, farside, have you fully read the game? The question you asked there -- about Mastina not pushing harder on her scumread and voting elsewhere -- have you noticed that another slot did something like that too?

[Trojan Horses]

I actually caught that from my read as well. I noted and asked her about her reads not changing.

Which reads of hers do you think should have changed?

[Trojan Horses]

apart from nsg?

[Trojan Horses]

she is even literally describing the game plan in thread

break up rc nsg

break up rc shuichi

etc

this made me chuckle RC

@Mastina: keep reading lol

[Trojan Horses]

Ergo, RadiantCowbells is scum, because he is playing to the scum wincon of preventing town cohesion.

thing is, he's sorta been putting up a weak show about it
i expect town RC to go all in on scumreading us,

but

, wouldn't scum RC cause up a major stink about all of this to break up town cohesion if it threatened him?
like he's mildly asked Oka to help him (sheep onto Vecna I guess) and is pretty laid back

[Trojan Horses]

1) i said so

I'd be glad if you could show how Lie Ren is very unlikely scum.

[Trojan Horses]

my entire case btw is predicated around mastinas scumread on me being egregiously fake and the fact that she is accusing me of things that every single player in this game knows are at worst nai for me should make it really clear why i feel that way
honestly lie ren could be scum off of his individual posting but i dont understand the gamestate in which lie ren is scum so im shying away from it

but even if she's scum I don't get why LyLo Ren would be town from gamestate, unless you mean it's also from my not including him in townbloc?
like is {TH+Vecna} or something the only gamestate you're even considering right now for ouir game?

[Trojan Horses]

also how do you not feel WANH is town, RC? is there anything scummy about them that we didn't notice?

[Trojan Horses]

if you are town and not my ideal lynch today i dont really care to influence you because your reads are fmpov all the way in the wrong direction and its better to just leave you in the pool of people im not trying to work with and focus on working with everyone else

you can work with Nancy and Skygazer from my hydra
also, this is a nice circular argument lol

[Trojan Horses]

i think WANH's "i would dayvig both mastina and RC" comment is very towny as well.

[Trojan Horses]

but even if she's scum I don't get why LyLo Ren would be town from gamestate, unless you mean it's also from my not including him in townbloc?
like is {TH+Vecna} or something the only gamestate you're even considering right now for ouir game?

if you are town and not my ideal lynch today i dont really care to influence you because your reads are fmpov all the way in the wrong direction and its better to just leave you in the pool of people im not trying to work with and focus on working with everyone else

"you don't understand" and "i don't want to work with you" both are but excuses.
There is no gamestate reason for LyLo Ren to be town; a gamestate with Trojan!scum can easily have him as scum too.
So, yaeh, as far as current info goes that's a bad read

[Trojan Horses]

i dont feel like i have gotten anything out of all of my interactions with your slot so far this game and its been mostly you so

You expected to get something out of me for stuff like "Sushi feels like I do so he is hard town", etc? sure

[Trojan Horses]

Really? I think that's pretty easy to say and garners sympathy from literally everyone except the two of them.

they're already at a point of being sorta townread by some slots and not scumread by anyone as far as I can see so it's unnecessary to do that for cred
also, antagonizing both Mastina and RC? yeah the cost benefit isn't sooo great for them as scum here.

[Trojan Horses]

At this point in the game it is correct for me to treat Lie Ren as town and work with him because he is not unlikely to bus if he is scum himself in this situation whereas you are incredibly unlikely to vote scum whether scum or town.

But I will be sheeping NSG

[Trojan Horses]

this is kind of the same thing mastina is doing where you are saying that lack of reasons to support a claim discredits the claim itself even though i am notorious for having few reasons and lots of correct reads

Again, apart from NSG, which claim did Mastina made which she refused to substantiate?
Interestingly I found some old post of yours today where you said town dislikes it when you cycle-wagon. It's kinda funny that you scumread me for doing the same here.

[Trojan Horses]

she hasn't, but can't wait!

[Trojan Horses]

Elmo Teh Azn, Ellitell

[Trojan Horses]

What I said was that Mastina is accusing me of being scum for not substantiating on reads when that's pretty par for the course for me as town.

Got it - but in case of Lie Ren, you did admit you're just treating him as town for gamestate reasons and don't actually townread him: also which assumes that I am incredibly unlikely to vote scum if town (which is untrue, I would be ~random lol in which case Ren would be random) or I am scum who is incredibly unlikely to bus (which is true, but distancing from people is very much prominent in my scum meta, and I've not even arrived at a "final read" on the slot) so, yeah.

[Trojan Horses]

MASTINA WOULD YOU ENDORSE A VECNA LYNCH

-OKA

Based on her posts what is your most likely guess?

[Trojan Horses]

You can't sheep NSG. She's not in your game

So? "Sheep someone" can also mean "sheep someone's reads" c'mon

[Trojan Horses]

I've given up on trying to engage mastina btw

Is that the only reason you're trying to get Vecna lynched right now?
Can you scum case him?

[Trojan Horses]

i think people have this conception that to be towny or to be a good town player you must have strong stances. i don't think this is the case. personally, i would say that far more often than not i hold no strong stances, or only very few. if i do have them, they're almost strong townreads as opposed to strong scumreads. if i would have a strong scumread, it would almost certainly be meta-based, rather than based on anything else.

That wasn't my point

[Trojan Horses]

Mastina, can you please just cut out the insults from your posts? Yeah, we're all morons and f-holes, all just part of the game.

[Trojan Horses]

what was your point?

I think then it was some combination of Sushi calling other players bad for their reads and then posting a fluff readslist that conveyed largely nothing

[Trojan Horses]

i think baezu is town

Ok!
So you think I'm more likely town, WANH townlean, think Baezu town
That's like 3/4 in my townbloc excepting Vecna

And also all of them match Mastina's reads

So RC's accusations that these are shitty reads are

[Trojan Horses]

A lot of my approach to this game is what it is because both NSG and GIF are present and I don't feel the same need to individually carry as much weight but it's certainly not the only reason I'm not playing to my typical 'meta' and I think I've made it clear that I hate being pigeonholed into playing that meta or getting scumread for not doing so anyway.

A lot of my approach to this game is what it is because both NSG and GIF are present and I don't feel the same need to individually carry as much weight but it's certainly not the only reason I'm not playing to my typical 'meta' and I think I've made it clear that I hate being pigeonholed into playing that meta or getting scumread for not doing so anyway.is not a player in this game

[Trojan Horses]

No I've been SRing him for a while you know that...I just wasn't aware a wagon had reformed.
I don't like to make cases; I feel my reasons for SRing him have been made clear.

I haven't kept track. Please summarize.

[Trojan Horses]

I admit that that's probably not the best metric to use, but it is an amazingly stark contrast that does bias me towards thinking she's scum her.

Obviously that can change when you replace in to a, what, 70 page game which is also going at a really high pace, right?

[Trojan Horses]

yay fire is back!

[Trojan Horses]

Right now she's being passive

I get your point, Mastina, but why would you want to lynch her before she has a chance at doing so? Do you think lynch pressure will magically turn her active if town?

[Trojan Horses]

I cannot believe the mastina lynch isn't happening

her reads are straight up from a different game

NSG said, and I paraphrase:
"WANH lean town"
"Trojan more likely town"
"Baezu town"

What do you think about these reads, Molla?

[Trojan Horses]

if i was in xmas and not in a hydra where the most active player in our hydra was TRing mastina i'd vote mastina here

-sky

[Trojan Horses]

Point me to thoughts that look like they took time and effort for farside to make which it feels like she has followed through on and given more on

It was the lack of awareness that you weren't actually lynched. It both looks genuine (and she'd know it if she were scum) and I get the feel it's not something the kind of content scum!farside would produce.

[Trojan Horses]

Elmo Teh Azn, Ellitell

what does this mean?

Cross game activity tell

[Trojan Horses]

I'm against ending the day till NSG can form a few more reads and says it's OK to end the day.

[Trojan Horses]

U can fuck off with that. We are ending day as soon as possible.

And gain what from it?

[Trojan Horses]

Sorry can you elaborate? What does it mean? Town/Scum?

Lurk out in the game you're scum in but play others

[Trojan Horses]

me not going v/la from the remainder of the game!

what a nice present of having me here. amirite or wut

So what would change for you when Vecna flips, that you wouldnt go VLA?

[Trojan Horses]

progression

And you won't get progression from jjh, Elmo, GIF posting and NSG working towards a solve?

[Trojan Horses]

I'm wondering why you keep defending her or sticking up for her. It burns something instead my gut that leaves a bad taste.....but I digress.

I also want to gain more insight into why you think what you do. But I also think Mastina is town. I'm sorry that it leaves a bad taste?

[Trojan Horses]

progression

And you won't get progression from jjh, Elmo, GIF posting and NSG working towards a solve?

u are correct.

Then you are wrong

[Trojan Horses]

Baezu/Lie Ren, please don't hammer Vecna.

[Trojan Horses]

i understand your reticence to have to spend that much effort fighting but also given how important i feel winning on day 1 is i can't really agree with such a hasty lynch.

Not just that! I'm afraid the NK can be cross game and you die as a result.

[Trojan Horses]

Baezu/Lie Ren, please don't hammer Vecna.

Who is your alternative?

The only vote on mastina right now is farside FYI I just checked

My alternative is, wait for GIF, Elmo, JJH to make content and then let NSG dictate.

Tell me why that's bad.

[Trojan Horses]

We've been talking for weeks!!
So sick of this

So? And what negates the possibility that scum didn't post at all? I don't get the bloodthirst. There are 4 slots which haven't and one more which is just starting to do so.

Your case on Vecna is weaksauce, but I'll dissect that later.

[Trojan Horses]

No I think some of them are scum
But we can get to them tomorrow
If they're scum they will not die unless vig
If they're town there's no way they get killed by scum.

And what will prevent you from saying the same things you're saying now, tomorrow?

Pedit: Stop it fire, I'm the bully remember?

[Trojan Horses]

Yay!!! I get to die and leave this game

I can bet scum will try to kill NSG

[Trojan Horses]

if jjh flips scum we'll be lynching in halloween first. if he flips town too, actually.

If you could provide some direction in case you die that'd be great, NSG.

[Trojan Horses]

listen if u want to go out with nsg, just ask.

don't need to be subtle with this "provide me some direction senpai" stuff.

I support TrojanXNSG ship. GO ASK HER OUT!

Lol, WANH. I think she's a HUGE threat to scum, and also in the universe where RC is scum, she's very easily his largest threat.

So I want her alive. In case she isn't, I want her to give us final thoughts. People are already pushing the narrative that my reads are shit - so if I simply work off of NSG's stances it'll be much harder to discredit.

[Trojan Horses]

Okay I'm ready to start rereading the game now

Lmao jjh

[Trojan Horses]

my urgency on that is fairly low, especially given that, as i understand it, the thread remains open during the night.

Didn't Cakez say it locks? Oh it's public that it remains open, is it? Don't recall, will read up

[Trojan Horses]

You play oddly

Agree, but I think this logic actually checks out, no?

[Trojan Horses]

Mechanically speaking, I suspect this game is similar to Vengeful Ghosts in terms of the general type of mechanic

As in flipless?
You think Mastina should be the D2 lynch then?

[Trojan Horses]

JJH LOCKTOWN NOW

[Trojan Horses]

FARSIDE LOCKTOWN NOW

[Trojan Horses]

FARSIDE LOCKTOWN NOW

JJH LOCKTOWN NOW

Actually cancel this lol

[Trojan Horses]

I see similar weird things in Auro’s play that I do here

You call my play weird and scummy yet logically sound.
Post-game feel free to actually describe to me what makes them look scummy to you.

[Trojan Horses]

anything even though there are two of them and they don't appear to have a real reason for that is not doing that read any favors

Yes, but that seems to be weakly town indicative for them, actually. I said this long long ago and now Gobbles also concurs.

[Trojan Horses]

I'd be a lot more miserable if I was scum here

I think if you were scum without a partner in jjh, Mastina you'd be very happy now actually.

[Trojan Horses]

that was mostly a joke anyways, although i still think that it would've been better to wait to lynch, jjh was about the best candidate i could've come up with for a random early lynch to happen on.

I'd personally have chosen Elmo.

[Trojan Horses]

Because SirCakez, like Molla, is painfully transparently obviously town.

I'm failing to see this. His desperation to get a lynch somewhere doesn't square.

[Trojan Horses]

I'll cut out the insults when they cease to apply or I am warned to stop

They cease to apply. You wrote wiki articles on scumplay IIRC and you think it's easy to sort you?
I simply think insulting people makes the game less fun to play.

[Trojan Horses]

We can still lynch vecna rc...

Seriously? You just got a lynch there and you're thirsting for a lynch here too? Why? Suddenly unsatisfied?

[Trojan Horses]

Just because we can still lynch vecna =/= I want to RIGHT NOW
I want to see the flip

I am kinda confident Christmas will have NSG killed, then Mastina quicklynched to flip town

[Trojan Horses]

Is mastina just ignoring that jjh is hammered and flipped town

Yup. Which is weird since she was responding to "latest posts" during catchup earlier, no?

[Trojan Horses]

Who are the Christmas scums then

I think Elmo is one. Dunno about the other.

[Trojan Horses]

This answer isn't great for obvious reasons

Why so?

[Trojan Horses]

It still could be WW

I already said I think their lurking is weakly town indicative.
Gobble has also said that.

[Trojan Horses]

This answer isn't great for obvious reasons

Why so?

Because if you're gonna defend the leading wagon in that game you should have some idea of who the alternative scum are

I'm not going to defend it. I simply just think she's town who committed a careless mistake.

[Trojan Horses]

What is that if not defense, TH?

So I cannot think that someone is town, without having an idea of the scum solve?

Sorry, but I'm not grokking your logic here. I feel like even if I was defending someone, I can do so from townreading them and having a gamestate read for what scum are doing? I don't see why I'd need to have solid scumreads first to do any of that.

[Trojan Horses]

Yeah I suppose you're right.
If you had to guess gun to your head besides Elmo who would it be?

N_M. I wanna say Molla but I don't think I can read him reliably, and he seems to be consensus town anyway.

[Trojan Horses]

Hmm
N_M is really hard for me to read. Did anything ping you there aside from predecessor?

No, I'm just PoE-ing from there.
NSG and Gobble both feel town.
Wonderwall has weak reasons to be town.
Farside has reasons to be town.
I think Mastina is still town despite what she did.
Leaves Elmo, Molla, N_M.

[Trojan Horses]

jjh isn't close to being hammered

Pretty much, yeah.

jjh isn't at risk of being lynched.

So I can vote him to make my stance on him known.

Lol

[Trojan Horses]

Trojan I forgot if you said earlier but who is your preferred lynch in Halloween rn?

Right now? Sushi.

[Trojan Horses]

@Mastina, why did you hammerjjh?

Imagine flashlynching a guy on his scumday that's just so rude

Happy scumday!

-bitmap

I think Nancy would appreciate this

But JJh getting killed by Mastina is the karmic Justice I needed in this world

Why would you think this?

Btw

I want Nancy to set aside a few hours and talk to me if she can

I'm not engaging further with Auro and I don't know how to read Sky

Also Mastina you are not getting anyone to do jack shit. You have no ability to prevent me town leading. Can you please just accept this quickhammer as your contribution to scum win condition and shut the fuck up already because nothing you do is going to change anything but it will make everyone enjoy this game less.

I’m here now RC. I’ll do my best to answer anything you want, despite me not reading over half the game.

[Trojan Horses]

Baezu is my pick for scum in Halloween
I think TH is town because after rereading WF I think I see similar weird things in Auro’s play that I do here
WANH town
RC town
Gamma town
SirCakez struck me as town early in the game but I have mellowed on that read

Yay! I'm someone's pick! I don't have to go to the dance like a skeleton



(With no body) yuk yuk yuk

@Gobbles, why do you think Baezu is scum here? Both me and Auro think she’s been pretty townie?

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Trojan I forgot if you said earlier but who is your preferred lynch in Halloween rn?

Right now? Sushi.

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Auro did question my tr on SS. Apparently he has quite an impressive scum meta?

Auro was just trolling all of you when he offered to carte blanche sheep Gobbles. He wouldn’t even sheep nsg unless he was convinced she was right.

I can’t speak for Auro, I will have to reread (or actually just read)your respective ISOs.

[Trojan Horses]

I would not b/c I think Vecna and Baezu are scummier and I don't see the scumcase for Shuichi atm.
Your latter sentence is true. How are you applying that to Vecna?

Would you do Lie Ren?

I have been directly asking you to give the day more time, no? I also got you to summarize the case on him; right now it's 6am here and I haven't slept yet, otherwise I'd have written about that already. Right now it's not urgent anyway.

[Trojan Horses]

Nancy when will you have time to read the game then engage with me

That may take awhile. Anything you suggest in particular I look out for, keep in mind?

I still don’t get how we were ever your “ideal lynch” when Auro has been so obviously town?

[Trojan Horses]

NSG hard townreads Suichi btw

Why are you calling me scum for not being completely submissive towards NSG on all her reads but pushing for votes on one of her townreads?

NSG, do you actually hard townread Sushi? I did not have that impression.

@RC re: me overriding her, yes, if NSG says don't pursue Sushi as he's hard town, I'll probably concede and sheep that! I'll probably debate it a bit with NSG first though but still

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Shut up mastina

Could you and Mastina seriously NOT do this? It’s making the game unfun.

[Trojan Horses]

Cephrir is really good at scum

Cool - so what has he done exactly to merit a townread?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I would not b/c I think Vecna and Baezu are scummier and I don't see the scumcase for Shuichi atm.
Your latter sentence is true. How are you applying that to Vecna?

Would you do Lie Ren?

I have been directly asking you to give the day more time, no? I also got you to summarize the case on him; right now it's 6am here and I haven't slept yet, otherwise I'd have written about that already. Right now it's not urgent anyway.

Nah Kylo Ren isn't the D1 lynch

Agreed.

[Trojan Horses]

go to bed whoever posted that in TH!!!!!
P-edit: I want to stay on Vecna but I also want to be reasonable with TH :/

I pretty much just woke up. Why is Vecna scum? He seems super townie to me?

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Nancy when will you have time to read the game then engage with me

That may take awhile. Anything you suggest in particular I look out for, keep in mind?

I still don’t get how we were ever your “ideal lynch” when Auro has been so obviously town?

At literally no point have you been my favorite lynch.

I thought you posted that? I may have misunderstood.

[Trojan Horses]

his early posts felt quite genuine
and I really like his engagements over the last ~20 pages - he's had exactly the same thoughts as me re;the mastina mess

See, I feel like scum would also have the same thoughts, and even then this is such an easy thing to posture with. A lot of his gameplay seems to be that - commentary on the game/players without what I see is legitimate analysis.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

atm I believe TH is town who just is very aggressive in their pushes and takes a lot to reconsider. a la Gork
at least for whoever the head I've been primarily engaging with

Stux/Auro, I generally prefer to townblock on D1.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

The Amished tell doesn't quite fit in this scenario, I think. How do you know he checked the ISO and not just the votecount on replacing in? And I think the applicability of this tell varies per player (as do all generic tells), Vecna doesn't seem the type to do that more likely as scum. His pride and repeated calling of his "freestyle streams" as being towny doesn't feel like a scum move, really.

And yes, he was explicitly concerned about getting off lynch. He stated he's salvaging the slot, no?

I concede that Joe Burger was scummy, although even there we don't have access to completed town games to see how his scum meta matches up.

Parts where I'd have to check your ISO, later

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

go to bed whoever posted that in TH!!!!!
P-edit: I want to stay on Vecna but I also want to be reasonable with TH :/

I pretty much just woke up. Why is Vecna scum? He seems super townie to me?

~N

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

I forgot about Jorman but based on my experience playing with Vecna, your reasons for sr Vecna I see as NIA.

[Trojan Horses]

Can you point to some specific posts that show this?

You know, I went to his ISO and began quoting a lot of posts - can you take a look at it and tell me how much legitimate analysis he's offering (which in roleplay mode should be higher than normal, really) versus snark or noise?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Shut up mastina

Could you and Mastina seriously NOT do this? It’s making the game unfun.

There's no we

I wanted to play this game in a very laid back manner and work with some of my favorite players of all time to solve the game and Mastina just quickhammered town and is doing her utmost to prevent me from being a townread. I'm killing scum. When she's gone I can approach the game differently.

It just seems that you and her had some falling out during TM and are carrying that into this game and it would really help if both of you would not continue to keep antagonizing each other in THIS one.

I think you’re both more likely than not tvt but your ongoing hostility towards each other, makes it near impossible to take either of your reads on each other seriously.

[Trojan Horses]

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

I'm making a judgment on his character from current play to arrive at that conclusion. And also, Amished tell involves ISO reading, do you see evidence of that? Also, another question - if you replaced into a slot would you not check a VC before diving in?

A Mastina scumflip would make me reconsider a lot of my solve, but I don't see how it fits with Vecna. What's the link?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

To be fair, it's also difficult for me to keep track of votes especially with all the cross-game votes

That is a good point, this game with its unique mechanics are really confusing.

Why are you voting Vecna?

@Vecna, can you link one of your scumgames? @Cakes too, preferably. I’m already familiar with SS and he played quite differently in PA so dunno. \_0_/

[Trojan Horses]

Yes and people think that for some reason I'd be aware of the exact number of votes that flashwagon had

You seem to be posting while not reading new content.
So how would you know if there was a vote on someone or not between the post you're currently reading and the actual current post?

Given you already judged sentiment against jjh... It's inherently a risky move to vote, no?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

The Amished tell doesn't quite fit in this scenario, I think. How do you know he checked the ISO and not just the votecount on replacing in? And I think the applicability of this tell varies per player (as do all generic tells), Vecna doesn't seem the type to do that more likely as scum. His pride and repeated calling of his "freestyle streams" as being towny doesn't feel like a scum move, really.

And yes, he was explicitly concerned about getting off lynch. He stated he's salvaging the slot, no?

I concede that Joe Burger was scummy, although even there we don't have access to completed town games to see how his scum meta matches up.

Parts where I'd have to check your ISO, later

-Stuxnet

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

Can you link/quote a game, where Mastina played exactly like this as scum?

[Trojan Horses]

I'll claim this again
I'm in a hood with someone on Christmas
So cross game interaction is possible

And I'll claim this again.
I don't believe this and won't until I see who claims it.

Ok. Please explain why RC would lie about this?

What is your assessment of the whole RC/Mastina fight?

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Can everyone tell Mastina to shut the fuck up please

If everyone does maybe this will stop

I really don’t think this is helping. :/

[Trojan Horses]

Please RC, Mastina. You need to both stop now or I will ask Jingle to lock this thread. I’m dead serious about this.

[Trojan Horses]

To my knowledge, the one and only player to have said they don't want to play with me ever again, was Firebringer (a stance he's since loosened up on, obv, but it still makes me hesitant to replace/join into games with him).

Hey fire bringer wanna talk about this !??!???

ummmm i don't know if i want to get in on this drama.

but just let the record know:
1) Yes i asked for mastina not to play with me.
2) Yes, she ignored this and still played in games with me, even signing up on secret alts to do so.
3) Yes this annoyed me and pissed me off.
4) No none of this is really relevant to this game and i am pretty much over it and can now deal with mastina in games.

U both need to chill out.

~fire

+1

[Trojan Horses]

i prefer drama like me calling trojan horse fat or something.

~fire

We’re actually big boned.

[Trojan Horses]

Jsyak, I just sent Jingle a pm, asking him to monitor the thread.

[Trojan Horses]

i prefer drama like me calling trojan horse fat or something.

~fire

We’re actually big boned.

ur bones couldn't get much bigger!

bazing Hahahha

~fire

How dare you? We were going through puberty and had hormone issues.

[Trojan Horses]

Also fuck you to hell comparing me to a domestic abuser.

I did no such thing.
I said you used the language of one, because you DID. Nothing you can say or do will change what you posted and nothing you can say or do will change that abusers use the language of that post. It's just facts.

I made no comparison of you to be one. Nor should I, nor would I. Because my point was that you're using manipulative language. Not laying an accusation to you.

Comparing RC to any kind of “abuser” is beyond uncool, especially to anyone who knows what he’s been through.

[Trojan Horses]

I never called you an abuser.
I said you used the same language as an abuser--which is objectively true. Because abusers can and do say stuff like, "I don't want to live in a world where you ('you' being their abuse victim) X", e.g. "I don't want to live in a world where you leave me".

Mastina you are a disgusting disgusting person and yet I still hope that you never live to experience what a real abuser is like.

buddy buddy buddy,

2 steps back.

cool down from thread and rethink this out.

~fire

RC, please don’t put yourself at risk for a temp ban. <3

[Trojan Horses]

I'm the victim here factually stop acting like this is a 2 way street.

Also fuck you to hell comparing me to a domestic abuser.

I did no such thing.
I said you used the language of one, because you DID. Nothing you can say or do will change what you posted and nothing you can say or do will change that abusers use the language of that post. It's just facts.

I made no comparison of you to be one. Nor should I, nor would I. Because my point was that you're using manipulative language. Not laying an accusation to you.

Comparing RC to any kind of “abuser” is beyond uncool, especially to anyone who knows what he’s been through.

Did you somehow miss this post? The argument between you two is making the game unfun, was all I said.

[Trojan Horses]

his early posts felt quite genuine
and I really like his engagements over the last ~20 pages - he's had exactly the same thoughts as me re;the mastina mess

See, I feel like scum would also have the same thoughts, and even then this is such an easy thing to posture with. A lot of his gameplay seems to be that - commentary on the game/players without what I see is legitimate analysis.

Pretty much this, yes.

The push on me is incredibly pro-scum.
Not all of the pushers on me are scum; SirCakez, FB, and Molla all are town.
But that doesn't mean that the push against me is protown; it's still by and large scumdriven.

Why are you so confident on Cakez town?

[Trojan Horses]

Yes and people think that for some reason I'd be aware of the exact number of votes that flashwagon had

You seem to be posting while not reading new content. So how would you know if there was a vote on someone or not between the post you're currently reading and the actual current post?

Yes! Precisely! How would I know if there's a vote on someone between the post I'm reading and the current post?

I wouldn't.

So I wouldn't have known about jjh being L-1.

Ergo you proved I did not intentionally hammer jjh.

Not at all - ergo I'm proving that you should have been more careful, knowing thread consensus was against jjh as well.

-Stuxnet

(Btw, I think I'll take a break for a day or two from the game)

[Trojan Horses]

Please RC, Mastina. You need to both stop now or I will ask Jingle to lock this thread. I’m dead serious about this.

There is no 'mastina' here.
I am giving reads, reasons, and defending myself.

RC is telling me to shut up.

mastina can u pls apologize to rc.

~fire

[Trojan Horses]

Yeah I am telling u to shut up

Is shut up such a horrible thing to say that it justifies comparing me to a domestic abuser which btw I have firsthand exercise with but you wouldn't care given you're just looking for some shitty label to throw on me

I think the most violent action I've engaged with in the last ten years is to throw a die at my brother for accusing me of cheating in a board game and my soul hurt when I watched one of my cousins fall and mildly hurt her knee but yeah I am domestic abuser great description good job Mastina

Fyi Mastina, I’ve had plenty of arguments with RC and the way he has handled them, is the absolute antithesis of what an abuser does.

[Trojan Horses]

Comparing RC to any kind of “abuser” is beyond uncool, especially to anyone who knows what he’s been through.

I didn't compare him to one, either.
I didn't call him one.
I didn't say he was acting like one.
I didn't compare him to one.
And I didn't imply any of those.

Pointing out that the language he use is the same language an abuser uses, isn't doing any of those. It is calling his language manipulative, which it is.

Then, just straight up call it “manipulaive” then and don’t compare it to what any kind of abuser does. Can you seriously not see how that could be triggering for anyone - especially someone who might have themselves been abused?

[Trojan Horses]

Comparing RC to any kind of “abuser” is beyond uncool, especially to anyone who knows what he’s been through.

I didn't compare him to one, either.
I didn't call him one.
I didn't say he was acting like one.
I didn't compare him to one.
And I didn't imply any of those.

Pointing out that the language he use is the same language an abuser uses, isn't doing any of those. It is calling his language manipulative, which it is.

I don't see how you grandstanding on this position helps you in anyway.

"Your honor, I never called him a pedophile. I just said he talks like one"

Can u just apologize instead of ur grandstanding.

~fire

+1

[Trojan Horses]

Auro was just trolling all of you when he offered to carte blanche sheep Gobbles. He wouldn’t even sheep nsg unless he was convinced she was right.

I can’t speak for Auro, I will have to reread (or actually just read)your respective ISOs.

Yeah this.

Yes, but listening to NSG's arguments will likely convince me she's right. I wouldn't *blindly* sheep anyone.

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I did. I spoke to Nancy in my discord chat about it.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

I have a slight townlean on you atm, it will get clearer after I see some flips.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Why is TH making work for people?

???

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

uhhhhh can you not read or

Auro didn’t mention RC anywhere in this post.

[Trojan Horses]

Auro in his own words doesn't care about other people's reads if they conflict with his own.

Why don't you ask Nancy if she gets this feeling from me as a hydra?
I don't see where I said I don't care about other reads if they conflict with mine. Is this about my scumreading Sushi while NSG "hard townreads" (she doesn't) him?

Why is TH making work for people?

???

You're asking people to link stuff. I don't see any problem with it.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I mean auros other heads are townreading Ceph and he's voting Ceph anyway.

Oh sorry.

I need to sleep more. Doh.

I haven’t read over half the game and unless Auro and I are vehemently disagreeing on a read, I won’t adamantly oppose it.

Like we both hardtown read Mastina and nsg for example.

But I have a much stronger read on Ren then he does.

I am obviously open to opinions that contradict ours.

[Trojan Horses]

Why don't you ask Nancy if she gets this feeling from me as a hydra?
I don't see where I said I don't care about other reads if they conflict with mine. Is this about my scumreading Sushi while NSG "hard townreads" (she doesn't) him?

This is literally something you said a long time ago then we had a fight over it and then we stopped playing together.

I don't recall. I know I'm pretty stubborn, but at least now I give credence to others' reads. Only that I assign a lot of weight to the soundness of the cases. With Nancy in hydras I've just let her veto stuff before.

I thought we fought over a scumread on me for not doing much when I was Michael Scott in that rapier game.

But, yeah, I try

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Auro in his own words doesn't care about other people's reads if they conflict with his own.

Why don't you ask Nancy if she gets this feeling from me as a hydra?
I don't see where I said I don't care about other reads if they conflict with mine. Is this about my scumreading Sushi while NSG "hard townreads" (she doesn't) him?

Why is TH making work for people?

???

You're asking people to link stuff. I don't see any problem with it.

-Stuxnet

@RC, I would not hydra with anyone who completely disregarded my opinions or reads. I think you would know that from your experience hydraing with me.

@Farside, what exactly is your issue with that?

[Trojan Horses]

I mean auros other heads are townreading Ceph and he's voting Ceph anyway.

Also this is false lol
I haven't voted Ceph
SirFakez asked me who I'd *want* to vote for and I said Ceph - I'm entitled to a personal opinion.

This feels similar to when people asked me for more reasons on my SirFakez scumread and I gave them and suddenly got attacked on a bunch of fronts

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Why is TH making work for people?

???

Your asking for meta reads from cakez.
Do you think his reads are wrong? You may have said what your reads are but i dont recall so would you mind saying who your scum reading?

I asked both Vecna and Cakez to link one of their scumgames. What is your issue with that?

[Trojan Horses]

You've pushed for Vecna votes

You are not currently voting them

Yes, because I changed my read on Vecna between the point I was pushing for votes (which was pre replacement IIRC) and right now - why exactly is that problematic?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Fyi, farside, I’m not currently tr you. I trust that answers your question.

[Trojan Horses]

Sorry what I meant to say was

You're pushing Suichi even though your other heads TR fhem

RC, I’m not currently sr him but it’s not a strong read. For me, it’s more a question of PoE and at least some of that is based off of meta.

[Trojan Horses]

You're pushing Suichi even though your other heads TR fhem

Nancy has only read half the game. I told her my concerns about Sushi earlier. She said Ceph's play feels different from Apocalypse (the last game we faced scum!Ceph in). I mentioned that he's roleplaying a detective character which will likely alter his meta. She acknowledged this.

I'll add that Nancy and I do have read disparities a few times and we're OK with it. We have slightly different approaches to the game. As Nancy stated, she's fine with me pushing wherever - if she thinks I'm tunneling obvtown she'd tell me and I'll stop. She knows this is my style, though.

Sky is barely invested in the game. I don't recall her reads on Sushi. I would say it's outdated anyway.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

cuz Auro hates me lol

Although I know you're joking, I'll just say again: It's never personal, I like you as a player and did like you in Excalibur (although my vague memory is that you were a lot more aggro there?) where we played together last

I use shitty nicknames for everyone if I get a chance!

It makes it harder to ctrl+f for associations in my ISO

@Sushi: it's that large Krazy game where you replaced Dann afair

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

even though you're getting townpoints for me out of it i feel compelled to point out that a game i only played a third of might not be the greatest choice for meta

Seemed like a basic playstyle comparison from Nancy.
That's Nancy's read btw and not mine.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I was more aggro in general in my past. I think I've grown more empathetic and less angry during my break.

Well, by aggro I don't mean angry!

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Sorry what I meant to say was

You're pushing Suichi even though your other heads TR fhem

RC, I’m not currently sr him but it’s not a strong read. For me, it’s more a question of PoE and at least some of that is based off of meta.

I don't know where you're getting all this Ceph meta from. We don't have an extensive history or anything.

You're pushing Suichi even though your other heads TR fhem

Nancy has only read half the game. I told her my concerns about Sushi earlier. She said Ceph's play feels different from Apocalypse (the last game we faced scum!Ceph in). I mentioned that he's roleplaying a detective character which will likely alter his meta. She acknowledged this.

I'll add that Nancy and I do have read disparities a few times and we're OK with it. We have slightly different approaches to the game. As Nancy stated, she's fine with me pushing wherever - if she thinks I'm tunneling obvtown she'd tell me and I'll stop. She knows this is my style, though.

Sky is barely invested in the game. I don't recall her reads on Sushi. I would say it's outdated anyway.

-Stuxnet

I don't even know what game apocalypse is

Not YOUR meta specifically but people I’ve had more experience playing with.

[Trojan Horses]

Apologies to RC since I /inned as a secret hydra, if that matters.

Please treat unsigned posts as Nancy head.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

You need to out your neighbor to me, if at all possible.

Why and why does he need to do that today?

[Trojan Horses]

Why would a two person hood be conftown?

Statistically speaking, hoods are more likely to be composed of all town members.
By statistically speaking I mean totally unsubstantiated feelings and impressions I get from perusing the forum

But I do think neighborhoods are more likely to be town because mods think towns are stupid and will wifom themselves to death with the hood

A hood isn’t a masonry. I was in an alltown hood in ND and I know you were in RS, however, there was scum in my hood in Sky’s large normal, so it does happen.

[Trojan Horses]

@Baezu, any thought on anyone other than Vecna?

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

[Trojan Horses]

Elmo Teh Azn, Ellitell

[Trojan Horses]

Lie Ren could definitely be scum. I'm not really seeing much town motivation or scumhunting in their posts. A lot of coasting-esque posts. A lot of useless posts/active posting. 1114 was bad. Not really any thought to the reads.
My only concern is, knowing that Gamma is behind the alt, that it's just his awkwardness coming off as scumminess.

UNVOTE:

I still don’t know who to vote for but I don’t think I want to vote for Cakez anymore.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

Hey, I've been asked to monitor the thread because it's getting toxic right now. I have not (nor do I have time to) read everything atm, but I would like to remind everyone of the most important rule:

1. Don't be a dick.

Stay pretty, and remember that Jingle loves you.

TRASH PANDA!

Do you literally have nothing else to contribute?

[Trojan Horses]

Well it looks like you are just doing busy work. I don't understand the Mastina town read or the cakez scum read you had.
I typically read past games from players myself because I've seen players in the past cherry pick a few game they know won't match there current game so I never trust people to link games.
Also once upon a time when I placed as scum I asked people to link games for me to look like I was scum hunting so it just reads as nonsense work in my mind.
I mean I took about 20 minutes to look at Mastina's past games and I don't really see how this game compares to her most current games. She litterally is just throwing shit to see what sticks and is trying to start antagonizing players. There is really nothing town about that.

I think it's borderline disingenuous to call our play busywork after simply picking out instances where one head asks people to link their scumgames, farside. This is NAI, and a prominent feature in Nancy's towngames. Cherry-picking games is a risky move when there are a bunch of other slots who are familiar / might check out your scumgames for themselves. I tend to trust most people on self-meta / self-linking generally because it's a bad cost-benefit to lie about it. Why are you ignoring the rest of the work my slot put in, instead to just focus on one specific behavior and imply us scummy for it?

Both Nancy and I maintain that Mastina is not only town but obviously town. Mastina talked about her own meta, and I trust her I joke, but yeah - I think her general demeanor comes a lot more often from town!Mastina. What she's doing seems like a shitty strategy as scum in a playerlist full of players who already seem to dislike her. I don't think she flail-quickhammers as scum, as Mastina doesn't seem like the kind who'd do that. I don't think scum!Mastina fears pushes on her so much that she'd lolhammer town (which seals her fate the next day). It's kind of obvious she's not been "checking the Mafia PT" getting signals from her partner to hammer. Her reads almost all match with mine, on WANH, Gobble, Baezu, Vecna, etc. Where did you get the feeling she's throwing shit to see what sticks? She's been throwing a

lot

which doesn't stick, and despite that keeps going on, yeah? I'd appreciate it if you can explain it in detail! I agree that it's not pro-town to antagonize players, and yet, town can behave in an anti-town fashion and still be town.

I have explained my prior ScumCakez read in detail (although I'm beginning to feel considerably better on the slot, but still not a townread personally). Which parts of it do you not fail to grok? Or did you mean you townread him strongly? If so, can you explain why he's convincingly likely town?

@SirFakez: Nancy doesn't wanna vote you I'm willing to move on to the next wagon anyway.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Th: lets see she used old meta to call me scum.
She just changed saying she wanted to see more from the player without waiting even a day for that player to respond. She suddenly changed her mind. Did you read why it changed, her read on jjh?
Why would someone like mastina vote a player that 2 other of her scum reads are voting?
You think that makes sense?
If so why?
Also i went through a majority of you post and i would say 80% is filler question and responding to players in a game.

She used old meta to call you scum, but also acknowledged that it was biased and unreliable. I don't see why that's such a big deal, honestly. I don't believe it's scummy to have that feeling influence her read at least a little.
Yes, I think that makes sense. It's fine to hold two individual scumreads and vote for one of them despite the other scumread also voting them. I read why it changed. She initially townread him; jjh did nothing to keep that read strong, and from her PoV kept prodging and promising to play the game without follow-through. She's also been behaving rather emotionally, that probably factors into her actions as well.

Okay, sure, 80% of my play is filler/responses. I think that's a terrible assessment about my play, but I won't engage on that. I simply think you don't understand the intent behind most of my questions if you think they're filler, because I feel that each one of them has helped in some form.

I'll be toning it down for a while though, so that should make you happy!

@SirFakez: Yes, Nancy thinks you're town and doesn't want to vote you and that's all to it. I won't be joining the Vecna wagon for the same reasons you don't want to join a Sushi wagon, except stronger. Vecna's been at L-1. You've already gained reactions from seeing him there - my defense of him, and Mastina's defense of him.

@Vecna: I have a couple more mildly spicy takes. I am beginning to feel that SirFakez' desperation for a lynch could perhaps be town-indicative. Even after pushing him for it he continued behaving in that manner, and this was at a point where he wasn't in immediate danger of being lynched. It's something that would be somewhat scummy in hindsight on town flips, and therefore unnecessary. I'm also feeling Elmo's carefree post about how fun it is speculating about the NK while offering no stances is slightly towny!

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

There still is this alternate reality where youre doing your scum masterpiece this game, then I come in here and lockscum your partner in -Shuichi or Lie Ren- and you have to fight me over it, but in a subtle way where you put me up as the D2-D3 lynch.

It's amazing that you come so close to the answer on RC and then don't have the magical, "hey, waaaaaait a sec..." realization on him.

To be fair, I have succesfully mislynched RC in every game he was town together with me, so yeah, I take that shit a lot more cautiously.

And you portraying this situation like theres such an easy distiction between his town and scum game? What a load of nonsense, ive seen him as scum mislead you plenty of times.

I really cannot fathom why Vecna makes this post as scum. This is a townie thought process through and through.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

If mastina's posts addressed to TH are scum distancing, I have to admit it's pretty good distancing.

VOTE: Vecna

ho-ho look at this

@Sushi, none of this is making any sense. Mastina is treating us just like any player in this game and wtf does that have to do with you putting a naked vote on Vecna?

[Trojan Horses]

Lie Ren could definitely be scum. I'm not really seeing much town motivation or scumhunting in their posts. A lot of coasting-esque posts. A lot of useless posts/active posting. 1114 was bad. Not really any thought to the reads.
My only concern is, knowing that Gamma is behind the alt, that it's just his awkwardness coming off as scumminess.

Town gamma has a lot of genuine townspewing posts. There was a little of it in there.

We just need to see a lot more posts, because when it comes in large volumes it is almost impossible to misread.

That’s why I don’t want to touch Gamma today. I think as the game progresses, his alignment will become clearer. Once again people, how are you sr Vecna here? I seriously do not get it.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

if a Vecna wagon reforms I will back on there in a flash

Guess I shouldve lynched you when I had the chance. Not willing to listen to reason, and

being played like a fiddle.

If you honestly believe this, then you’re pretty much implying you townread him, no? So why would you want to lynch him in that case?

[Trojan Horses]

Man, why is it that when I talk to you red flags and angled of weirdness just pop up all over the place lol.

Because over. and over. and over again.
You keep going.
"Man, this thing from RC is suspicious, but nahhhhh, he must be town.
Oh he's doing this other thing which is suspicious, but nahhhhh, he must be town.
He keeps doing scummy shit, but surely he's still town.
Oh, he's yet again doing something which is sketchy, but he still has to be town."

Sooner or later you've gotta face the facts.

Chances of lynching him at this moment are zero. So I really dont know why you keep talking to me like this.

If he is scum, the hydra and cakez are in his pocket. Those are clearly the deciding votes here.

The most likely outcome is that im fucked and the townblock will dissolve.

If RC is scum here, he has already won the game.

period

Mastina correctly nailed scum!FL in PA. The basic difference was that FL was flaming obvscum, who would have been lynched a lot sooner, if Fire hadn’t locktowned him for reasons I still don’t understand. Scum even thought he was their traitor in that.

Where as there are posts that RC has made that slightly townping me, like Mastina sr nsg for example. I agree with you, unless he is literally playing like in BoP2, he isn’t an easy read.

~N

[Trojan Horses]

You aren't at L-1 anymore WANH and RC invited
Jjh HAS ACTUALLY been speedhammered and flipped town

My primary reason continues to be your overreaction to any and all pressure on you. Just look at your posts over the last two pages.

That is NAI for Vecna and for a lot of people. I get wrongly sr for that all the damn time. Why do people auto assume, if you don’t want to be lynched, you defacto have to be scum?

[Trojan Horses]

If mastina's posts addressed to TH are scum distancing, I have to admit it's pretty good distancing.

VOTE: Vecna

ho-ho look at this

@Sushi, none of this is making any sense. Mastina is treating us just like any player in this game and wtf does that have to do with you putting a naked vote on Vecna?

you're the alternative person i'd be voting right now

This isn’t helping me to tr you, fyi. It just comes across as a really bad and possibly scummy omgus. Contrast that with Cakez for example, who didn’t respond that way. That’s why I think he’s town. It’s townie to assume that the slot pushing you is more likely to be wrong town than scum, unless you are a very inexperienced or newb player, which you obviously aren’t, so this read of yours looks scummy to me. I won’t be trying to dissuade Auro from voting you. I’m not tr your reaction.

[Trojan Horses]

Ergo, RadiantCowbells is scum, because he is playing to the scum wincon of preventing town cohesion.

thing is, he's sorta been putting up a weak show about it
i expect town RC to go all in on scumreading us,

but

, wouldn't scum RC cause up a major stink about all of this to break up town cohesion if it threatened him?
like he's mildly asked Oka to help him (sheep onto Vecna I guess) and is pretty laid back

Holy fuck.

How can ANYONE be fucking scumreading this slot?

Pearl after pearl of brilliant, solid town logic, genuine analysis.

(im not sure I agree with the conclusion since scum RC does build up and takes it very easy on D1, but thats besides the point.

RC is great enough at scum to do exactly the right things to get majorly townread and antagonizing enough as town to get the suspicious people pinged hardcore

)

Man, if you're pulling off a blatant pocket job here, o well consider me pocketed

Regarding the bolded, true, but I think with NSG town he would make the game more difficult for himself (also consider that his buddies can get lynched and he still loses) by only focusing on doing the right things to get townread. As town cohesion grows, he would

have

to start working against that. That was what I was thinking at that point.

[Trojan Horses]

Prolly claim at L-1 with intent instead of now?

[Trojan Horses]

I have no idea how to feel about th response to me.
There is a logic behind it but its weird to see people be logical in this environment.

For what it's worth, I get this a lot. I'm not often very emotional in games I just play the game and have fun with the rhetoric and argumentation and solving!

-Stuxnet (and the previous posts as well)

[Trojan Horses]

But ill just die obviously.

[Trojan Horses]

til anyone with confident reads must be scum

Oh is that what I said?

In 3373? Yes

To everyone: this is an example of Sushi's disingenuous potshots. It was very clear that Vecna meant RC's confident reads

on Sushi and Lie Ren

are icky. Vecna thinks there's no good reason to believe either of Sushi or Kylo Ren are town (and I don't either, but anyone who does is free to explain), so calls out the fact that RC's townreading both of them.

I think Sushi understood this, and still made that snarky remark anyway. Why do you guys townread this, again?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Well unless we have a bunch of other PR's on our side, then we can totally have fun and mislynch a bunch of people

inb4 someone calls this a scum pt slip

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

So Ceph how long have you been this god tier don Corleone scum God because this is the first I'm hearing of it

Well,

I

don't think Sushi's doing much as scum this game
Farside, you said I have a 80% noise to signal ratio in my ISO - I'd like to hear your assessment on Sushi.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

SirCakez, do you buy Vecna's meta of being prideful in being townread as town?
If you do, does this update your read on him?
If not, are you going to verify this by yourself?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

If on the other hand you have a functioning BULLSHIT RADAR, can you all please join me in lynching this obvscum?

I'd prefer Sushi. Nancy doesn't want me to hardpush RC and thinks his play is NAI (specifically, tunneling obvtown) for him. I had a conversation about Bayesian inference but still
She has however authorized me to defend you :3

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I think it's possible but even if this is his meta he seems to be making posts that are just antitown in their aggressiveness.
I was hoping someone else could just confirm it for me rather than my own meta dive which I will probably be confbiased on.

Which posts strike you as anti-town that's disproportionately aggressive compared to the slot that's pushing him?
It's like you call anyone pushing RC as being anti-town.
Why?

/insert something about a hydra head getting cut off and then another reason to push someone as scum or a variant taking its place

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Now RC and Vecna hug it out and let's all lynch Sushi!

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Have u considered soaking ur head like I asked you to

Kill me N1 and we have a deal.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

go soak your head

. A dismissive phrase said to someone who the speaker is frustrated or annoyed with

[Trojan Horses]

This is a good example of you adding content to my posts that isn't there

I don't know what vecna believes and i don't live inside his head i can only read the words he posts and not the ones you retroactively assign to him

Why, sure. Let's read some of the words he posts.

If you really want to trust his reads, just ask yourself how it is possible his reads on

Ren lui

and

Schuichi

are so strong.

Also, help me see why you think RC is townreading you this hard, and

why youre not critical of him giving you such an easy townread

that he is willing to die for.

GAMMA EMERALD without the freeposting, the free flow of mind. He is lurking ffs. That is not town GE.

There is nothing produced by that slot that you can really accurately townread

. But I would love to see your reasoning.

Shouldn't be too hard for an ace detective, no, Sushi?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

i'm not doing much of anything! which is why it's so unbelievable to me that vecna suspects me for being a charming scum god succubus!

You are making statements that seem designed and also perhaps seem effective at getting you townread while not doing anything of substance, is why

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I would say most of Vecna's posts over the last ~4 pages fall under this.
I'm not intentionally trying to call people pushing RC antitown it just keeps happening that my SRs are pushing there. Like if you pushed RC or gobbles did I wouldn't call it antitown. Which tbh makes sense scum would want to get rid and sabotage town!RC's reads.

"My SRs are pushing there"
"They feel like scum because they are pushing RC"

Do you see the circle here?

-Stuxnet