Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[Trojan Horses]

When eve claims it will start the massclaim

Don't need Massclaim, just whether Eve is Mason or not.
Mason shouldn't out if Eve is not the Mason.
If Eve is the Mason... well, I won't push her anymore.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I mean, why not? Scum can easily be confident about their scumbuddy being scum b/c they know they are scum. It makes you look good and everyone else bad.

4641

could easily be interpreted as buddying. It's in the same vein of scum congratulating a vig for a good vig shot.

It is not ideal for scum to have one of their partners going down with not so high payoff.
It would be harder to maintain such a clean tone.

Baezu was active over that whole period -> she could've shifted her vote anywhere else. Part of why Sushi voted Lie Ren was that he couldn't find other votes. Baezu could've helped by voting Vecna, "sheeping" RC.
Baezu could have voted for me, "sheeping" RC.

What prevented her from doing this?

I know it can be interpreted as such. I'm talking about the tone in context of her other posts around that time.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

What’s VC on NM?

I hope you don't have your vote in play right now.
As I said, I have some spicy takes for after the upcoming Evegate...
One of them is weakly that Not_Mafia is not mafia

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Statistically we have more chance of lynching scum in the xmas game but the scum pool is bigger there

And this sounds like Baezu wanting to lynch in xmas. Does a town Baezu, that just flipped scum in her game, want to lynch in the other game?

Yes, because the argument is valid. And she is not the first to have offered that argument.
1/7 scum in Halloween on D2, 2/8 scum in Christmas.
On D3, 1/5 in Halloween, still 1/4 in Christmas
Statistically higher chance. But the scum pool is slightly bigger in Christmas on D2 and a lot bigger on our D3.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I don’t believe the tracker claim though.

Please tell me what your solve would be in Christmas if Not_Mafia is town.
I want to discuss that right now.

I mean if we went with stats for the game based on players and poe it down, then lynching works better for the more active side to have the reads. This side i would put the not lynching at all as only 2 players not including myself.

We have all the time in the world, farside. We won't let players get away with lurking
I plan to fish out scum over this time, if NSG and Yshtola aren't doing anything

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

But why are Nero and Churros not in that pool? Can you just restate the reasons?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Nero is playing to his town meta and I think churros is playing town plus a lot of people townread Mastina even if I didn’t.

How are you sure this is not his scum-in-a-bad-position meta?
Can you describe how Churros is playing town? Before SirCakez' vote, Churros seems to have tried a lot to get Cakez to vote Vecna, or anywhere else. Does that mean anything to you?
A lot of people can be wrong

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Is this the progression of a not scumbuddy? Why does she go from town reading lie ren to not? What were her reasons for scum reading lie ren? 3760 is also confusing b/c she was calling loads of people scum b4 then. Does she often suddenly lose her confidence like that?

Yup. Lack of explanations is not particularly scum indicative for Baezu, I think.
She called Cakez scum, then retracted in a read. She called Vecna town, but RC wanted Vecna lynch, she asked if he should vote. She offered up Lie Ren as a partner.
It's not sudden, it's over many votes? Baezu just seems to be a very agreeable person, she was going for whatever lynch without having much say in it herself.

How are you sure this is not his scum-in-a-bad-position meta?

ignoring my meta, what makes you think I'm scum?

I think you should be null. My question was why you're being townread, not why not scumread.

How are you sure this is not his scum-in-a-bad-position meta?

I mean even ignoring his meta a lot of his positions and pushes seem organic. I dunno. Kinda waiting on you and NSG to carry.

I'm waiting for Yshtola and NSG to carry heh, but if they're not doing anything I'mma spice up the game!

I could totes see a scum NM claim a pr so he doesn't get lynched today.

Do you have any candidate solves in the universe that NM is town?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Trust me, I'm not salty, and I'm completely okay with disagreements.
If I was gonna be salty I'd be salty with whatever Cakez is doing... But I'm not, nah.

Many people seem to townread BB: have you played with him before? Can you point me to what makes you scumread him?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

like ok granted, I can understand an "eve is scummy b/c she quick hammered Titus!" and yes there can be a ton of scum motivation in that but we just got out of a game where green pm Eddie qhed Pine so I mean, seems kinda null to me.

That is hardly my only reason
RC's play on D1 was also quite scummy.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

How does a BB-NSG team make sense then, compared, to, say, farside+X or Churros+X?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

what if its something weird like TH, gobble and ???

I think you're salty that I don't townread you

No. I want to pre-solve under the assumption that N_M flips town. This is in part to help me sort your slot currently.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

maybe kinda? I don't think Nancy is outside of anything she could pull as scum and you ignoring multiple meta town reads on me is kinda not really a fan that you you didn't answer my q about who is scum if eve is town.

and I'm growing increasingly suspicious of the "im waiting on X to solve/carry" from u and gobble. I think the town read on Baezu is weird.

I was joking, since you said the same to me a few posts ago

You're ignoring meta reads on Baezu, on NSG. You're ignoring meta reads on me. If you're town, then bear with my grilling. I'm annoying, but part of my process.

Why is "I'm waiting" suspicious? What is our scum motive here if Gob and I are scum? We are just flexing all over the playerlist and want to brag about how NSG townread us, after the game?

Do you see how silly that is?

Why is my Baezu townread any weirder than your Eve townread? If we both agree on Cakez town, we can simply chain lynch Eve and Baezu.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Who do you think is scum in Halloween if Eve is town, TH?

It has to be between Cakez and Baezu. I cannot say with confidence who would be scum out of those two. I can say that Yshtola is town with high confidence.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Why would you agree to chain lynch Baezu if you are town reading that slot?

I'm establishing my degree of confidence in Eve being scum. As long as she is one of the two remaining lynched in Halloween, I am happy; that is what I am trying to say.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Problem is only a few are solving. This game will become tedious and I would promote my own lynch just on the bias that i was tired of the it maybe X discussion and wanting flips and votes to analsys

Then please don't vote *at all* till everyone solves.

We'll get everyone to speak up, don't worry

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

UNVOTE:

In case

[Trojan Horses]

It's undeniable that you have gone back and forth on your read on me ALL GAME. Including posts that are extremely waffly i;e "I thought he was town buuuuuuuuut"
Still reading but this really annoyed me

Yes, I am waffly. I townread you, but you make super scummy posts. You keep propping up my "agenda to mislynch you" when I want to lynch someone else.

Operate with me under the assumption that I am town, I am doing the same with you since I townread you stronger than Eve anyway.

Which one of Baezu and Eve is scummier?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

NSG meta townreads my slot (Nancy). Gobbles recognizes that this is my town meta. Yshtola, when she solves, will townread me and largely from meta.

Sure, then why do you have a problem with me waiting for NSG to prove that she is doing work? I don't get it.

I have offered a playstyle explanation for Baezu not explaining her reads all the time. You are ignoring that, and still portraying her lack of explanation as scummy.

Scum sheeping onto a partner is different.

Also, the carry thing was partly a joke lol, if I was being lazy and stupid then wth am I doing right now? Lulling around? I'm quite confident they will be reaching the same conclusions as I am. I meant that while they're doing nothing to progress the game, I will do that. Also, I have decently strong reasons to trust both slots.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I don't see a world where Baezu is scum here. Does not make any sense with LR. And the push she's been doing on me all game against my old push on her seems more townie.
I keep forgetting about WW slot.
I suppose Eve could really be scum here but I just find TH's actions too scummy to ignore. I find it ridiculous that Boro is acting like he doesn't understand why I think he could be scum here. The "waiting for NSG" stuff is really weird, agree with Nero on this.

VOTE: Trojan Horses

And I'm also townreading Baezu; Gobbles and Nero think you're scumz if not Baezu...

Yet, I am the scumz here?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I don't and that's not what I said. I said we shouldn't be relying on her to solve.

Yeah don't worry about that: I'll be evaluating the arguments she proposes on their own merit. If she reaches conclusions different to mine, I'll engage about them thoroughly.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

can someone explain to me why it's so important to lynch in Halloween b4 xmas? I wouldn't be surprised if NM just ends the game.

It is not important, and I think I would prefer an Xmas lynch first. Then massclaim, then a Halloween lynch.

However, no lynches until everyone contributes.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Gobbles and Nero are not in Hallowee; I'm not concerned with Xmas right now.

...
So you are refusing to solve Christmas, and you refuse to even consider the case that I am town in Halloween.

Your only play today will be a tunnel on my slot and nothing else.

Is that what you are saying? Read that again... then ask yourself if it's unfair that I waffle from a townread on you.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I mean, with unlimited deadlines we DO need to lynch b4 Xmas but yeah...

You mean before Halloween, right?
Because a mislynch in Hallo takes it to LyLo; mass claim should be pre-LyLo.
Massclaim should be universal and not on a per game basis, this both games get to pre-LyLo

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Oh you meant the real Xmas.
Well sure yeah we can try getting this game to 1000+ pages and set the MS record!

[Trojan Horses]

Farside, Nero are townlocks. Gobbles being okay with Cakez’s idiocy is concerning. @Cakez, if you’re town here, please stop being a gamethrowing woat. 3 dead town slots locktowned us: jjh, Vecna, Titus. Check it out if you’re town and don’t want to gamethrow.

Btw, in what godforsaken non-existent universe, do you read our mindmeld with you on Baezu, scummy?

[Trojan Horses]

Farside, Nero are townlocks. Gobbles being okay with Cakez’s idiocy is concerning. @Cakez, if you’re town here, please stop being a gamethrowing woat. 3 dead town slots locktowned us: jjh, Vecna, Titus. Check it out if you’re town and don’t want to gamethrow.

Btw, in what godforsaken non-existent universe, do you read our mindmeld with you on Baezu, scummy?

nsg too, wanting Xmas to lynch first, is blatantly protown. We only need to lynch one more scum in EITHER game, not 2 in the same, so pushing Halloween into LYLO is gamethrowing.

[Trojan Horses]

I don't want to operate with you!town NOW

SirCakez, I really want to solve between you and Baezu right now.
Baezu is not here at the moment.
And you refuse to talk to me apart from calling me scummy.

If you expect me to give you a definitive answer, you'll have to engage with me about Halloween and Christmas both.

If you don't want to help me affirm that you're town by just repeatedly saying I am scum trying to mislynch you, then I cannot help.

Apologies, but when you absolutely refuse to engage, you should not have expectations from me to produce correct solves.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

VOTE: NM

No lynches till everyone checks in, please.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I'm not a WOAT
Ok TH let me ask you this - if Eve is town, who is the Halloween scum?

It’s not us and I don’t know why you’d be voting the slot that was actively trying to stop your lynch? And you should be advocating for Xmas to lynch first, rather than pushing Halloween into LYLO. Xmas can still afford a mislynch, Halloween can’t.

You are 100% gamethrowing, irrespective of your alignment here. We 100% will flip town and if you’re town, you are either going to get yourself lynched first or right after us. Which defacto means, we will lose and yes. you will be the gamethrowing woat who lost it for us, either way.

Why don’t you want Xmas to lynch first, rather than push Halloween into LYLO?

[Trojan Horses]

Accusing me of gamethrowing here is RICH.
And I don't understand the flaw in lynching in Halloween; both games have a mislynch left.
ok
Fine
Whatever
I'm going to rage if you are scum post-game.
Talk to me about Xmas

We’re not scum. The point is that a mislynch in Xmas won’t throw us into LYLO and if we lynch correctly, our wincon is the same, so it makes absolutely no sense to lynch in Halloween first. Do you understand that?

[Trojan Horses]

fire sneakers sure is feisty - i've maybe kind of changed my mind on them again

SirCakez or Baezu who to pick

ok that post is decent cakez you've convinced me

VOTE: Baezu

Eve, are you a Mason or not?

@Cakez: As we need a massclaim pre-LyLo, and lynching in Halloween takes us to LyLo. The other game has two mislynches left, next lynch takes them to pre-LyLo
You do know this, right? I know you're mechanically competent, at least. C'mon

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Nvm my post*

Xmas is at 6-2, wrong lynch makes it 4-2 which is MyLo

This does mean massclaim today I guess.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Answer my question too please

fire sneakers sure is feisty - i've maybe kind of changed my mind on them again

SirCakez or Baezu who to pick

ok that post is decent cakez you've convinced me

VOTE: Baezu

@Cakez, I don’t honestly know now. I 100% expected Eve to vote us. In any case, we should 100% be lynching in Xmas game first and if get it right, we win and if we’re wrong, we’re still not in LYLO, so no logical reason to lynch in Halloween first.

[Trojan Horses]

Well then we should just off N_M here seems pretty obvious no?

Same way Titus felt obvious? No, we should wait for everyone to post

do i really need to claim? is this the consensus?

Not consensus, only my slot and a couple of others would like you to claim.
I am convinced I want to lynch your slot; if you're Mason then I'm forced to evaluate stronger elsewhere

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Just claim Mason/not Mason, not your actual role

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Gute

[Trojan Horses]

actually fine i'm not a mason

Who do you think is scum in Xmas?

[Trojan Horses]

Eve not being mason has me shook that I almost don’t believe

Well, as Thor665 used to say... Color me unsurprised!

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Yeah yeah rub it in once your slot doesn’t hard defend flipped scum

{Lie Ren, Eve, Sushi, GIF} was my PoE
WANH, Vecna were both hard town

Meanwhile Eve's predecessor hard defended GE for a lot of the game

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

first massclaim

[Trojan Horses]

first massclaim

We should be lynching in Xmas guys. Why aren’t we doing that? and of course, NOT before the mass claim.

[Trojan Horses]

But uh let’s vote Eve bid farewell to TH and then kill Nm?

You say this like you know Eve is going to flip town?

I do think she’s town, but I am willing to concede for TH so I can either eat crow or rub it in their face

Technically everyone in that post is some I think is gonna flip town except Nm

Who do you think NM’s buddy in Xmas is?

[Trojan Horses]

SC->Eve->Not_Mafia->BBMolla->Churros->Nero->farside->Baezu->Gob->Me->NSG->Yshtola

Insert rest of the slots somewhere

[Trojan Horses]

I strongly want us to lynch in Xmas after mass claim. There was initially so much resistance to Eve lynch, I was sure she was scum but no one seems to be opposing that now, which is making me worried that she maybe town. In any case, the safe route is 100% to mass claim, than Xmas.

[Trojan Horses]

You guys still haven’t explained why it’s better to lynch in Xmas over Halloween at this point in the game. Like we can still lynch in Halloween then lynch in Xmas right after

Pedit:
Probably NSG. I think it’s Baezu/SC/Eve in Halloween and then NM/NSG in Christmas.

Pedit2:
Uh why do I go before so many others? Lol

Because Halloween mislynch throws us directly into LYLO, where as it doesn’t in Xmas.

[Trojan Horses]

not nero
not farside
probably not churros
maybe not northisdegal

so in (BBMolla not mafia gobbles wonderwall)

This is what I was waiting for. Now you know what I was pushing you to do.

[Trojan Horses]

You guys still haven’t explained why it’s better to lynch in Xmas over Halloween at this point in the game. Like we can still lynch in Halloween then lynch in Xmas right after

Pedit:
Probably NSG. I think it’s Baezu/SC/Eve in Halloween and then NM/NSG in Christmas.

Pedit2:
Uh why do I go before so many others? Lol

Because Halloween mislynch throws us directly into LYLO, where as it doesn’t in Xmas.

Yes. Why does it matter if we are in LyLo in that game? As long as no one yolo votes it is fine. There’s no deadline.

If, did you ever read Timeshift? It was a scum stomp, because town literally did just that,

[Trojan Horses]

You guys still haven’t explained why it’s better to lynch in Xmas over Halloween at this point in the game. Like we can still lynch in Halloween then lynch in Xmas right after

Pedit:
Probably NSG. I think it’s Baezu/SC/Eve in Halloween and then NM/NSG in Christmas.

Pedit2:
Uh why do I go before so many others? Lol

Because Halloween mislynch throws us directly into LYLO, where as it doesn’t in Xmas.

Yes. Why does it matter if we are in LyLo in that game? As long as no one yolo votes it is fine. There’s no deadline.

If, did you ever read Timeshift? It was a scum stomp, because town literally did just that,

No, I can’t read.

Spoiler:

What happened in Timeshift that makes it a bad idea to go to LyLo? Unexpected mechanics?

No, literally the woatest town ever in the history of mafia.

[Trojan Horses]

Gobbles, regardless of who gets townflipped in Halloween, Xmas would lynch NM, so why lynch in Hallo first?

You were my "spicy secret scumread" along with Eve, for the record

-stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

But idk, no stronk feelz, you have a really good thread presence I feel.
N_M townflip confirms that both scum are elsewhere in the pool tho which would be very interesting

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

In what scenario of Hallo lynch does Xmas not lynch NM yet?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

What i mean is i dont think gobble is scum.
I think the worst thing for this game is to stay stagnant, but whatever.

Yeah, well, his play here doesn't seem scummy in a lot of ways, and if NM's about to get lynched I don't think Gob would be posting even.

It is much wiser to actually do a massclaim first and slow burn this. I don't see the rush to lynch NM, frankly. Nancy and I both thought he's the best lynch because he's in a PoE by individual equity and a great "info flip", but if he's town Xmas goes to MyLo.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Auro you know this isn’t my scum game. We can laugh about this in the dead thread when we both get nightkilled

Yup! If this IS your scumgame I'll be surprised. I was coming up with hypotheses that scum had no cross game PT and you were trying to get Eve to NK me

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Oh lol, I see now.
Eve > Baezu does it I think for your game. I would start with Baezu but this could be your wf gobbread that the town doesn’t want to believe. I am sad if it’s true because that means RC snowed me
Mylo just sucks cause it’s a waste of a day. I prefer towns to just immediately go into LyLo

Lol. If NM flips town, I'm definitely going to force through an Eve lynch in my game.

You sure Cakez is town?

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I mean I feel decent enough about him now. He’s been posting genuine and organic thoughts. Rip to Yshtola with a Baezu and Sc endgame if both eve and Nm are town

I think Sushi was town, but Yshtola is making 0 attempt to solve the game. Every post of hers is pure fluff.

Played with her in Masons n Mafia, she was continuously solving even through the gimmick.

A little worrying.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

No, literally the woatest town ever in the history of mafia.

i don't see how that game relates to LyLo in this game? It seems like they quickhammered you and then a townie faked a guilty and it was pretty much gg from there?

Then two days later, they mislynched the slot who was trying to prevent my slot’s mislynch - Mastina. Fire quickhammered me, because he likes to do scummy shit like that. FS was spot on when she called him an honourary member of the scumteam, irrespective of alignment, or something like that.

But seriously, if the town wincon was lynch two scum in the SAME game, I’d totally get why you’d want to lynch in Halloween first but it’s not, it’s two scum, PERIOD, so why risk putting the game into LYLO, when we don’t have a better idea of who scum is in Halloween than in Xmas?

[Trojan Horses]

the whole way he's approaching roleclaiming is just scummy. And I'm having a hard time getting it out of my head that scum lie ren fusses @ town mastina about misreading his buddy, DDL.

That’s what I was wondering too, if DDL/NM was an intended bus?

[Trojan Horses]

I lied about the tracker claim again, I'm a day tracker

Spoiler:

[Trojan Horses]

I'm not even solving anymore

Ftfy

[Trojan Horses]

i fully expect Not Mafia to flip town

Why so?

[Trojan Horses]

though a TH, Gobble, NM team does make some sense here.

In what literal universe? I’m the one who first linked the weird Gammma/DDL associatives. When are you ever going to correctly read me Nero?

[Trojan Horses]

There's no reverting; Nancy's opinions diff from mine

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

If we're speculating TR reeks of N_M partner
Lots of posturing around the slot, subtle defense, pushing for a massclaim (I assume so N_M could fakeclaim a PR)

TH not TR*

Do you see me trying to stop it? No. And I don’t know wtf the point of this speculation is anyway. The game either literally ends with NM lynch or it doesn’t, so dafuq if I have a clue wtf the point of this even is.

[Trojan Horses]

what are you even talking about??
N_M is all but confirmed scum
if he SOMEHOW flips town you can still talk

So, why are you speculating on who his buddy could be? If he’s scum, we will find that out, If he’s town, the game continues.

[Trojan Horses]

Cakez is bad but town
farside is town
gobble is town
Molla is still scum
Are the other 3 even playing?

So, who do you think is scum in Halloween then?

[Trojan Horses]

How is it possible for a hydra to have 1500 posts and yet I feel like they’ve done nothing this game

Are you seriously referring to us? *mind blown* if that is the case.

[Trojan Horses]

I want the other game to go to LyLo before we lynch in this game, ive been very clear about that for a while. I voted nm to get momentum on him. I agree if he is town he is gamethrowing, I also agree that he is probably scum. It’s just that I need to do my due diligence


Also I read the Shuichi Sahara iso and it is very funny. If anyone wants to have a laugh read that iso

WHY?

[Trojan Horses]

i think lynching in the other game b4 we lynch NM is just mad silly

+1

So, how are you still thinking we could be scum here? We’ve been insisting that Xmas lynch first. The only one who keeps pushing Halloween lynch first, is Gobbles, eventhough he knows it throws the game into LYLO.

[Trojan Horses]

baezu and nsg are both lurking or busy, they aren't mass claiming in Halloween. No on wants to replace into a mela/Ali slot and I don't blame them.

Ftr, I don't have a problem mass claiming in Halloween

We don’t either.

Baezu is pretty obviously town.

[Trojan Horses]

Oh lol, I see now.
Eve > Baezu does it I think for your game. I would start with Baezu but this could be your wf gobbread that the town doesn’t want to believe. I am sad if it’s true because that means RC snowed me
Mylo just sucks cause it’s a waste of a day. I prefer towns to just immediately go into LyLo

Baezu scum would really surprise me because all signs, point to no.

[Trojan Horses]

I mean, Gobble u keep saying that u jus wanna get to lylo in Halloween and like why do you think they gonna ml in Halloween?

Because no one wants to kill Baezu in that game and I think it’s Baezu lol. So of course if they don’t lynch my scum pick in that game I think it’s going to be a mislynch

I’ll stop trolling though. At this point I’m just waiting for NSG to post any sort of content not that I am going to bow down and kiss her feet like some people implied earlier

I think Baezu was the intended mislnch. I think Gamma was hoping that people would believe his fake cop claim and lynch her instead.

[Trojan Horses]

I mean I feel decent enough about him now. He’s been posting genuine and organic thoughts. Rip to Yshtola with a Baezu and Sc endgame if both eve and Nm are town

I think Sushi was town, but Yshtola is making 0 attempt to solve the game. Every post of hers is pure fluff.

Played with her in Masons n Mafia, she was continuously solving even through the gimmick.

A little worrying.

-Stuxnet

It would be less weird in a typical game. I can’t even grok how her play here, serves either a town or scum wincon.

[Trojan Horses]

I'm scum/quote]

[Trojan Horses]

i see through your smoke and mirrors

my antivirus is too strong

Unfortunately there’s no cure for either that or Corona. So, first I’m getting pushed as NM’s buddy, now you’re pushing me as NOT his buddy? If you’re town here than wake tf up.

[Trojan Horses]

i fully expect Not Mafia to flip town

Why so?

because his fakeclaiming shows he doesn't care about being lynched at all

intresting interpretation but like...he still needs deaths

Why does he have no opinion on who could be scum in Halloween? His only sr is molla.

[Trojan Horses]

So everything is filtered in by that he is the logic/controlled mastermind of the hydra

If I was masterminding...

I would've made Lie Ren claim VT.

I would've hard veto'd anything more than a few AtE posts from Nancy - a token amount because she does it in town games, and after that hard lurk. As town she just feels it's unfair or whatever, and while I've said many times outside this game that it's OK to be pushed and mislynched she still needs to learn how to handle it. As scum she'd just defer to what I tell her to do, though, 100%.

I would've had a lot lesser thread presence, especially when I realize I wasn't getting townread for it - because what's the point?

I would've been occasionally snarky and fake some sweet non-antagonistic solves, maybe go aggro a couple of times because town meta and then just chill out.

I wouldn't cheekily start declaring townblocs with slots RC was scumreading lol (and I can't be scum with Vecna now )

I wouldn't be strongly advocating that Mastina's quickhammer was not intentional, would just let the dominant thread discourse flow.

I would leave Sushi alone but always have him in a PoE so I can vote him without really pushing him.

I wouldn't be pushing SirFakez a second time after the first aggro push, wouldn't feign being unsure of him.

If I am scum this game, I am a poor mastermind

If you're just describing what I've done and calling it scummy because lol, then what about this?

What about my apparently night killing a slot that locktown read me (Vecna) and my lynching a slot that obvtown read me (Titus)?

I'm taking everyone who wants me lynched to LyLo for fun?

I can predict your response.

"But wifom!"

-Stuxnet

In MU, I got mislynched in LYLO, eventhough the NK was the one slot who townlocked me and I was constantly getting pushed there too for hard defending the D1 scumflip, because there was no resistance because scum bussed their role cop.

[Trojan Horses]

Farside - my reads before this were just "the lurkers are scum" Obviously it's not just that, I've been trying to redevelop my reads for days. Look at my ISO.

TH - Vecna was a claimed PR ofc he had to die, that's ridiculous.
Titus was an easy mislynch if scum. Or maybe you didn't want to lunch Titus but Eve!town lolhammered and messed it up.
Etc etc

There's no point even discussing if you're just gonna declare everything you've done townie.

Ding, ding!. I did want to lynch her or I wouldn’t have voted her but had I not been asleep at the time, I would have absolutely unvoted had I been online at the time, she towned it up but no, with people - like you constantly clamouring for our mislynch, it’s literally an insult to our intelligence to think we’d be stupid enough to vote Titus as scum.

[Trojan Horses]

Farside - my reads before this were just "the lurkers are scum" Obviously it's not just that, I've been trying to redevelop my reads for days. Look at my ISO.

TH - Vecna was a claimed PR ofc he had to die, that's ridiculous.
Titus was an easy mislynch if scum. Or maybe you didn't want to lunch Titus but Eve!town lolhammered and messed it up.
Etc etc
There's no point even discussing if you're just gonna declare everything you've done townie.

And you've called me town till now.
So you give eve a pass based on rc? You give bb a free pass to tunnel on a player then do nothing the rest of the game?
Im not joking.
Finding associtives this game is fine. I would push my own lynch as long as people voted bb after i flip town.
That how good i feel about my read at this point.

If either FS or Baezu is ever scum here, I should probably think about seriously quitting mafia.

[Trojan Horses]

Waiting for NSG is ++town equity. Her posting will help solve the game either way.

I have no idea who is scum in Halloween but I bet money, it isn’t Baezu.

It is interesting that both NM and molla, have each other as their #1 sr.

[Trojan Horses]

I do respect NSG reads and all but you guys waiting on her to completely solve the game is kinda pathetic

this. Also, it's not like she doesn't mislynch town as town so it's just lazy and there's some potential scum motivation in it.

I’m dying to hear your theory on that, please enlighten me.

[Trojan Horses]

I'm waiting for SirCakez to solve the game!

[Trojan Horses]

I kinda feel like the whole point of this game is to lynch whomever we think is most likely to flip scum regardless of which game it is. So I'm not really sure why there's not as much focus on who lie rens buddy is. This is why there are no deadlines barring forward progress, so we can focus on one game or the other at any given time.

I'd like everyone to explain who they think is most likely to be partners with lie ren and why.

In Halloween, not us obviously and not Baezu for pretty much the same reasons. Gamma clearly intended to mislynch both of us but decided our slot made a much better pocket - knowing of course stupid me would tl him fir that and get wrongly viewed as his buddy eventhough Gamma never treats a buddy like that. In Xmas, Churros is never a buddy based on Gamma/Mastina interactions.

I don’t know what NM will flip but Gamma’s conviction on DDL scum and attacking Mastina for it, seem weird if he’s town but who tf knows? I thought that there could possibly be some associatives with WW but Auro insists that this is town!Ali lurker meta. Reading his interactions with RC isn’t useful, because RC when scum, is usually set up as the one to endgame. Nsg looks like a pocket and there were a couple of weird posts about Cakez and molla but they neither spew or antispew either as buddies. So DDL/NM is either exactly the LR buddy or he’s being wifommed as the mislynch but having rolled scum with Gamma three times no less, it’s hard to imagine but it’s possible. Either way, I think lynching NM breaks the game wide open and because it’s in Xmas, it won’t throw us into LYLO if we get it wrong.

[Trojan Horses]

What are the odds TH is scum here trying to clog up the thread so that N_M can find a way to slip out of being lynched?

We are advocating him as the optimal lynch but we are also okay with waiting for nsg to weigh in. We are in no way trying to stop it. You have decided we’re scum with NM for trying to stop his lynch and Eve thinks we’re scum for advocating his lynch as the one which makes the most sense and both you and Nero are also FOSsung us for also not wanting to rush this and wait for nsg. Honestly, with okay with either. But bonus points, if you can tell me why absolutely none of this makes a damn bit of sense.

[Trojan Horses]

I’m dying to hear your theory on that, please enlighten me.

I've already talked about this.

scum sheeping is like surrounding yourself with a shield of blame. Both Auro and Gobble don't come off as unconfident players so I thought the whole "we r waiting on X to solve" just seemed out of character.

But if NM is scum it doesn't matter b/c

WE WON, BITCHES!

That’s why Cakez’ pushing us as NM partner is whack, because if he’s scum, you will find that out. @Eve, have you ever played with NM before? Serious question. Also, I think there’s no logical reason to alignment read NM’s responses. I see them as entirely NIA. But I have trouble believing Gamma slams Mastina for tr him if his slot is town. Gamma’s post read tmi to me.

[Trojan Horses]

I'm waiting for SirCakez to solve the game!

Spoiler:

[Trojan Horses]

Would've tried to stop NM lynch if he was shitposting more, I absolutely love his shitposts but I need more

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

Would've tried to stop NM lynch if he was shitposting more, I absolutely love his shitposts but I need more

-Stuxnet

Considering that we’re both now onboard with town!molla, I’m having doubts he will flip town. The way LR shouted down Mastina for tr DDL is really really strange if NM flips town.

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

Because NSG never lolhammers me otherwise when she is under such heavy scrutiny and the people who're asleep coming to the thread would be able to come to my defense and unvote if voting me.

Exactly, so the alternative here is that she knew it wasn't a hammer.
I don't think she would be able to talk her way out of it if she was scum and lolhammered. Even if RC was scum with her to defend her.

oh, jingle's about to reveal it anyways. the votecount was incorrect, it had wonderwall voting for mastina when they're actually voting for jjh.
UNVOTE:

Yeah I don't believe you when you say you weren't aware of this.

isn't it nice how i said "about to reveal it" at XX:48 and jingle edited the post that originally said "VC" at XX:52?

If this game stays this way I'll go into my actual backyard and lynch my damn self.

Hmm, looks like this persona crumbles just as fast in the face of emotion as my other one.

long term danganronpa-roleplaying is unsustainable and would be damaging to your health

I would still NSG to explain why a fake hammer gambit seemed like the thing to do.

Nsg, obviously not a buddy.

[Trojan Horses]

However it looks like RC refused to properly engage that argument. Not a fan I have to say.

This post reads transparently fake.

[Trojan Horses]

Also Eve pulled a very similar opening in Recruitment so I think meta will not be as fruitful as I expected.

What opening? Link please.

I am speaking of this game. in it she trolled towards the beginning but eventually got serious.

She was town in that game, and the behavior patterns match what I see here

. I won’t call this conclusive for any sort of read on Eve but I at least know she’s played this way before.

I have not read Autobattler yet but I have read some other town games of hers where the solving was on from the start. I feel like she can do good if given space here.

!ololol, did Gamma just spew Eve as his buddy?

[Trojan Horses]

i really think

that every single scum is trying to lynch nsg right now

Making a note of this because I was definitely not active at this time. I don’t have anything I want to draw from this yet but depending on how RC’s read on me is developed to the scum read he had this might be a sign RC was developing reads around the other players’ reads and gameplay, which is a scummy move.

Like come the fuck on RC. You earlier this game were like "Yeah, NSG could be scum, she neglects all her games as scum" to "WHY ARE YOU ALL ON NSG?".

-bitmap

I am glad you saw fit to point this out because I noticed it myself but it’s obviously to late for me to make anything of it.

SirCakez you seem to have a special hatred for my posting. What’s the deal with that?

Cakez not looking like a buddy here.

[Trojan Horses]

Also Eve pulled a very similar opening in Recruitment so I think meta will not be as fruitful as I expected.

What opening? Link please.

I am speaking of this game. in it she trolled towards the beginning but eventually got serious.

She was town in that game, and the behavior patterns match what I see here

. I won’t call this conclusive for any sort of read on Eve but I at least know she’s played this way before.

I have not read Autobattler yet but I have read some other town games of hers where the solving was on from the start.

I feel like she can do good if given space here.

!ololol, did Gamma just spew Eve as his buddy?

Anyone want to ISO scum!Fire from Under the Sea? Because 3899 sounds very similar to a post he made about his buddy there.

[Trojan Horses]

this might sound absolutely insane and a little bit stupid, but i'd just like to check myself – do we know for a fact that scum even know the members of the scumteam in the other game?

If they don’t then wouldn’t that make this game ridiculously townsided, considering town and scum win conditions are linked to both games?

[Trojan Horses]

this might sound absolutely insane and a little bit stupid, but i'd just like to check myself – do we know for a fact that scum even know the members of the scumteam in the other game?

I was considering the hypothesis that the scumteams know each other, but scum can't talk across games: and that Gob was trying to get Eve in my game to NK me by constantly repeating that we were a good NK.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

NSG, can you show us the remaining work for the rest of the slots please?

I think they should be very insightful actually.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

there is only one for lie ren and a nearly-completed one for baezu. they take quite a bit longer than you might expect.

I understand. Thanks!
Also, I had one question: Since you did it for Eve, are you doing it for her predecessor RC as well?
I feel like certain features in that could be very revealing, too.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

this might sound absolutely insane and a little bit stupid, but i'd just like to check myself – do we know for a fact that scum even know the members of the scumteam in the other game?

I was considering the hypothesis that the scumteams know each other, but scum can't talk across games: and that Gob was trying to get Eve in my game to NK me by constantly repeating that we were a good NK.

-Stuxnet

I would assume that Jingle would make this game balanced, so if the masons are cross and can communicate privately, probably so could scum? But WANH would probably have to explain that to us post-game, because Jingle gave us no clue which game their mason buddy was in.

[Trojan Horses]

farside22 r Amrun r ☾☀

Interesting

[Trojan Horses]

Given scum are already debuffed by their wincon and lack of cross game scum talk makes it much worse, what possible *buffs* do you think they can have? Esp with confirmed Mason and implied Doctor.

-Stuxnet

[Trojan Horses]

I think we need to stagger night phases personally. I don't think both games should go to night phase the same time.

-bitmap

If my game is in night but the other one isn’t, can I still post?

I think this is very likely a townslip. My brief Amrun ISO makes me think this is her town meta, which makes sense considering that FS is one of my most confident tr in this game.

[Trojan Horses]

not naming names

but someone

told everyone in christmas to not play the game and to just chill while halloween played

so no one really did anything in christmas...

I wonder what sort of game plan jjh would be instating actually. jjh is a player that I recall being severely dangerous as scum, I recall he carried a seemingly lost game. So his scum buddy would likely have to be someone he rates lowly on the skill ladder if he's trying to push the focus off of his game. So I think I just talked myself out of the idea of mastina and jjh being scum together.

By the way, this is a random tangent, but

I will very likely never oppose a DDL wagon because he played an extremely scummy game in the canceled 50 player large normal but was town. So I rate his town capabilities very low.

This post is hella weird. If DDL was scummy town in that game, then I would think that the opposite should be true. Could this possibly lead to a possible defence of this slot as “scummy town”? Especially if you contrast that with the blatant shade on jjh town.

[Trojan Horses]

You know what, screw it. Your credibility in this game took a nosedive, even outside the laughable idea of having a townread on DDL at this moment.

This is what makes me think NM could be scum. Would Gamma react this strongly if DDL/NM were town? Also, Gamma/Mastina interactions seem to spew Mastina town, because Gamma is clearly annoyed at her for tr DDL.

[Trojan Horses]

there is only one for lie ren and a nearly-completed one for baezu. they take quite a bit longer than you might expect.

I understand. Thanks!
Also, I had one question: Since you did it for Eve, are you doing it for her predecessor RC as well?
I feel like certain features in that could be very revealing, too.

-Stuxnet

oh yeah, i think i saw you ask that a while back. almost certainly not given the size of his ISO.

i might

come back

and do one post-game if it does turn out that RC is scum just for future reference, but in terms of solving this game i'm not sure it'd be a valuable use of time. (as a side note, future reference is not an insignificant part of why i'm doing this in the first place – it seems like quite an interesting method that plotinus seemed to use to great effect, so i'd like to see if i can make the same use and eventually come to be able to read iso maps effectively)

Thanks @nsg, that was really helpful. I think it’s extremely likely from this that Eve is the scum in Halloween.

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

NSG, can you show us the remaining work for the rest of the slots please?

I think they should be very insightful actually.

-Stuxnet

there is only one for lie ren and a nearly-completed one for baezu. they take quite a bit longer than you might expect.

but sure.

Lie Ren

Trojan Horses

=772 -782 =793 +794 =1090 =1091 =1092 -

v

1114 -=?1131 +1136 +1165 +1198 =1200 =1418 +3505

☾☀

+3800 +3827

Eve r RadiantCowbells

+789 =1015 +1019 =1085 =1091 =1099 +?1134 =1151 +1370

☾☀ r

-3850 -3852 =3860 =3882 =3890 ==3894 +?3899 -3906 -3920 -3924 =3941

gobbledygook

=1013 =1014 =1132 =1134 =1143 =1147 =1164

☾☀

Churros r Mastina

+782 -=?790 =792 =795 =1021 =?1131 -1139 +=?1151 =1202 -?1204 =1205 -1211 -1370

☾☀

+3941

farside22 r Amrun

r ☾☀

Shuichi Saihara

-=?1086 =1088 =1092 =1097 =1101 =1102

☾☀

BBMolla

=795 =1011 +1158

☾☀

Wonderwall

=1083

☾☀

=4546

Nero Cain r Elmo teh AzN

=1089

☾☀

Not_Mafia r DrDolittle

-1151 -1154 =1205 -1211

☾☀

Baezu

=1111 =1138 -1143 =1149 -1153 -1163 -

v

1165

☾☀

-4569

SirCakez

=1015 =1020 =1096 =1100 =1155 +1369

☾☀

=3920 =3927 =3930 =3941

---

jjh

=?1131 -1139 +=?1151 -1154

✝☾☀

northsidegal

=1010 +1013 =1132 =1135 =1164

☾☀

Vecna r Jormungand

-1015 +1095 +1099 =1113 -1114 +1130 -1143 +1160 =1162

r ☾

=3679

☀

+3827 -3840

Titus r GuyInFreezer r Bernadetta

=1080 =1081 +1086 =1087 +1367

☾☀

We are not helping

=766 +1016 =1094 =1099 -1136

☾☀

-3794 =3941

1083 notable as possible anti-wonderwall associative
1418 potential (maybe) anti-trojan associative
3827 knows that RC was replaced
3890 is interesting towards eve, finds a game where she played similarly and says it's "not fruitful"
3927 seems like a question that isn't to a scumbuddy

From this I get NM/Eve associatives but Gamma was extremely clever at disguising his other buddy in Xmas.:/

[Trojan Horses]

Vote Count #4.3
Halloween	Christmas
With 5 Alive, it is 3 to lynch or No Lynch! Trojan Horses (1): SirCakez, SirCakez (1): Eve Baezu (0): Eve (0): Yshtola Rule (0): Not Voting (3): Yshtola Rule, Trojan Horses, Baezu,	With 8 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! Not_Mafia (3): Churros, Nero Cain, Gobbledegook, churros (1): BBMolla, Nero Cain (1): Not_Mafia, farside22 (1): Wonderwalll, BBMolla (1): farside22, Wonderwalll (0): Gobbledegook (0): NSG (0): Not Voting (1): NSG, ,

Halloween needs to unvote and keep the focus on Xmas.

[Trojan Horses]

that being said, i think i'm coming around to baezu being the last scum in halloween.

how so?

[Trojan Horses]

But seriously I’m only hammering NM if everyone gives me a readslist. And I mean everyone, NM.

so if NM doesn't give readslist you won't hammer him
Good stuff

[Trojan Horses]

that being said, i think i'm coming around to baezu being the last scum in halloween.

how so?

@nsg, don't wanna offer reasoning now?

[Trojan Horses]

You could probably even spin some of my posts as TMI I guess

You could spin my awesome reads as TMI I guess

[Trojan Horses]

Gun to my head...the ISO map is pretty town indicative

Yup, a lot of useless effort
As town it helps even after this game.

[Trojan Horses]

Is that Nancy...?

I guess no one wants me to hammer NM

Ehh, go ahead

[Trojan Horses]

Yeah, can't solve without the flipz

[Trojan Horses]

Sin Eaters will eat those alive. It is so, and it is as should be.

Who are the sin eaters

[Trojan Horses]

Could it be gobbles/NM?

Shocking.

If this is the case I'm sorry about all the effort you put in Gob, you prolly deserved more tryhard teammates

[Trojan Horses]

i would say that specific instances invite suspicion: the lie ren scumread pops up suddenly and without explanation, and as compared to, for example, her scumread on cakez, is pushed fairly weakly.

I was weighing a lot of her earlier play with the fact that RC was present in game, she seemed to have a very "RC-sheepy" attitude

(also your ISO mapping seems to show this as well)

Need to check if Lie Ren u-turn came after RC said TH/Lie Ren need to die or before

[Trojan Horses]

Yup, a lot of useless effort

i wouldn't call it useless. i think that it's helped me. if you haven't found it helpful then i'm sorry to hear that, but it was never really meant for other people in the first place.

I meant useless if you're scum.

Maybe still useful in a sense, but I would assume such the power of use of such a thing is a lot lesser when you already have the correct conclusions.

[Trojan Horses]

He constantly gives me bad vibes with his posts and it didn't happen elsewhere. I feel he's constantly trying to shade slots rather than solving

my read is that he just can't be arsed to think

at N_M posts

[Trojan Horses]

Those who would impede progress would fight against the truth of the world, and those who would lie in wait to pounce upon weakened Warriors of Light remain undetected

What are their names

[Trojan Horses]

finesse

Can't finesse when everyone is lurking

[Trojan Horses]

Find me a list

Titus

We are not helping

Nero Cain

Trojan Horses

Eve

SirCakez

Baezu

Shuichi Saihara

[Trojan Horses]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
Happy now?

[Trojan Horses]

on the contrary, there's nothing less fun to me than people who rush something out of impatience when if they would only take their time they might end up winning.

that being said, i am fine with NM being lynched here.

i share the exact same sentiment, the same happened with jjh (unintentionally) and Titus (intentionally) and what info did it give?
I am actually against lynching N_M right now, but whatever

[Trojan Horses]

Vote: nm

This vote was hammer, right? 5th one

Game end then?

[Trojan Horses]

I did in fact vote NM.

hammer him now then

[Trojan Horses]

why Churros, NM?

[Trojan Horses]

sounds good

[Trojan Horses]

But policy lynch Cakez first

This is a valid point, I townread him, a mislynch means scum simply take us to LyLo with him for the quick win
Gobble, if Cakez is town then lynching in Halloween first would be terrible, I missed this reason.

[Trojan Horses]

would anyone else care to comment on this progression?

it's a clever gambit. farside is scum who knows N_M is town, and knows that we will all see it as an obvious associative so town lynches quickly.

/s

[Trojan Horses]

Would anyone be interested in a Gobble or NSG lynch?

if you associate both independently with NM then isn't NM the better lynch?

[Trojan Horses]

it's been auro, i also noticed that he's posting slightly differently but i imagine he might be tired or something

this is correct.
My NM vote doesn't count, gob

[Trojan Horses]

shrug

[Trojan Horses]

I mean yes, but I want to be there. I have a massive essay final that starts in 30 minutes and ends 48 hours later which is then followed up by another final that starts an hour after that one that is slightly less massive essay final that will last 48 hours. I am pretty much not going to be available to play this game for the next two weeks.

Best of luck, my turkey friend

[Trojan Horses]

Ok. Now Halloween needs to lynch. Kill Eve.

nsg thinks baezu tho, definitely not allowing a lynch here for a wrong while if game continues

[Trojan Horses]

nsg thinks baezu tho, definitely not allowing a lynch in haalo for a long while if game continues

[Trojan Horses]

Are you a guy Gobble? I've been assuming please correct me if I'm wrong.

Listen to my voice and you tell me.

https://voca.ro/8Vzpw15Hy8H

I lol'd

[Trojan Horses]

Good game everybody!

I have many thoughts to share in postgame.

wow sushi was scum

[Trojan Horses]

Why on earth would Sushi lolbus his teammate when Not_Mafia was scum in the other game?!

[Trojan Horses]

Why didn't you try to divert the wagon, Yshtola? Was it BBMolla?

[Trojan Horses]

Wow. Shuichi fooled me HARD. Why did NM just throw there and change his PR claim to even night?

I find it hard to believe bussing Lie Ren carried any payoff lol, and Not_Mafia is almost always a ripe lynch candidate

[Trojan Horses]

nice one yshtola, guaranteed townclears

I'm faking my reaction

[Trojan Horses]

I was the other mason.

Dude! No~~~~`

[Trojan Horses]

just like i told you in the scum pt, good job

Thanks for all the coaching!! <3

[Trojan Horses]

nice one yshtola, guaranteed townclears

: )

Sadly we didn't have Baezu or Eve here, lol
All the people reacting here I already townread, maybe with the exception of Churros

[Trojan Horses]

Waiting for confirmation so I can post on my main

[Trojan Horses]

It's...probably NSG in that case?

What a surprise...

Most definitely not, lol, why would she make the game losing vote?

[Trojan Horses]

Did scum have any buffs?

[Trojan Horses]

Bb is scum, right?

This is where I'd bet too, I think. Not WW.

[Trojan Horses]

individually I wouldn't scum read you this hard but I had a different impression from the town game I saw from you

Exactly this.

[Trojan Horses]

Did scum have any buffs?

We had the Roleblocker and 3 goons.

With Masons, doctor in game

Yeeaaaah I'm p sure you're still trolling Ank

[Trojan Horses]

I'm sadly not.

What was the rationale behind Sushi bussing the only power role scum had?

[Trojan Horses]

This game was very rough to the point where I don't think playing to the top of my scumrange on Blake would be enough to win. The town win condition is cruel.

But why? All you had to do was lynch Eve or Baezu here, then take us to LyLo with SirCakez.
He always votes us over you there. I always vote him over you.

[Trojan Horses]

I really don't understand the trend of scum bussing unnecessarily in gamestates where they can easily divert to somewhere else.

[Trojan Horses]

So my super spicy reads were that it was TH + NM and either BBmolla or NSG. Lie Ren did that newbie scumtell that RC pointed out on both TH and BBmolla. Lie Ren townread both TH and BBmolla for their effort.

How could you scumread me after all my effort Gob
I'll prolly stop putting in as much effort as town in the future lol

[Trojan Horses]

I think you underestimate how many people I would expect to immediately scumread me for not dying.

As a general principle, sure; but gamestate indicated otherwise. Even then, it's a gamble on this fact (since Cakez and I were going hard at each other and I basically towncleared you). You could always just say that you were lurking out and hence evaded it. You could just NK me.

I'm sorry Ank but I felt like scum had a somewhat good winpath here if you were scum.

[Trojan Horses]

This also requires me to approach the game as a mastermind. I never intended to.

I guess I feel nothing for the win, if you're indeed not trolling us.

[Trojan Horses]

I think that scum should never give up, as a general rule, always fight till your chances are literally 0, but okay.

[Trojan Horses]

It was mainly the fact that I felt like you had no direction in this game. You were VERY gung ho about getting me lynched in WF, but here after reading the last two pages of your iso I could not confidently say who you wanted to lynch.

Yes, I don't have confidence always

[Trojan Horses]

effort tell

Effort tell?

Yes, it's always easy to write what looks like a compelling case on me since I post a lot, but when you realize it isn't strong enough to counter the far more compelling case that I am town...

[Trojan Horses]

In hindsight I should stop these reads if you were really scum, because in fact I only got it right once with that thing, and got it wrong far more often.

Titus nailed Sushi!scum right off the bat lol :3

[Trojan Horses]

I only thought bussing was very anti-associative here because the win condition punished bussing brutally. Especially given 2 partners wouldn't likely get credit for a bus.

AND NOT_MAFIA IS ONE OF THE SCUMZ

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _to_bus%3F

This article by RadiantCowbells is very good.

[Trojan Horses]

lol the last page of the mason pt is me talking to myself and I'm like TH IS A MASTERMIND PLAYING INTO MY MASTERMIND SECRET READS HEHEH

I mean, I wasn't confident, my strategy was to just keep polarizing the game and push people hard to get reactions out of everywhere else while Ank and NSG weren't doing much

That's why I wanted to slow burn. Just cycle through, see what happens everywhere, then go all-in for the lynch like in WF.

I thought your continuous "kill TH" posts were signals of some sort lol.

[Trojan Horses]

weird game if it's this team...

This game would be an exercise in scum playing against their win-con and seeing if town would just implode

And this is why I still can't believe Yshtola. We need Jingle here.

[Trojan Horses]

I think the only realistic lynches outside of NM

WW was possible I think

[Trojan Horses]

Straight up if Yshtola just trolled me into outting I'm a mason I'm replacing out of this game

Not too bad; you'd prolly get NK'd anyway and no one was prolly gonna counterclaim

[Trojan Horses]

I call bluff on Yshtola

[Trojan Horses]

Having so many players agree on something is so exhausting. It's why larges have such a high scum winrate compared to other queues as well. Most of the early lynches happens on slots with a non-charismatic playstyle/naturally scummy/lurky.

You being town, Vecna being town and myself being town: this was why I thought RC slot was highest confidence scum, I felt like he was dismantling the cohesion that was forming.

[Trojan Horses]

Titus is GOAT!

[Trojan Horses]

RC was really a cop. What.

His play here is pretty much similar to TM. I think I had a light tr on him but then when Eve replaced in, I thought I was mistaken.

[Trojan Horses]

If titus isnt scum i still think eve is.
Who cc'ed venca claim again?

Please never lynch this. Farside’s posting has been so townie it hurts, just like Vecna’s.

Please don't listen to this player.

She doesn't know what she is talking about. She thinks up is down and the moon is made of cheese.

Clearly not someone to be listened to on facts.

~fire

Lolwut

[Trojan Horses]

Didn't BBmolla soft defend Lie Ren?

-bitmap

Only non-woat in that hydra.

[Trojan Horses]

So everything is filtered in by that he is the logic/controlled mastermind of the hydra

If I was masterminding...

I would've made Lie Ren claim VT.

I would've hard veto'd anything more than a few AtE posts from Nancy - a token amount because she does it in town games, and after that hard lurk. As town she just feels it's unfair or whatever, and while I've said many times outside this game that it's OK to be pushed and mislynched she still needs to learn how to handle it. As scum she'd just defer to what I tell her to do, though, 100%.

I would've had a lot lesser thread presence, especially when I realize I wasn't getting townread for it - because what's the point?

I would've been occasionally snarky and fake some sweet non-antagonistic solves, maybe go aggro a couple of times because town meta and then just chill out.

I wouldn't cheekily start declaring townblocs with slots RC was scumreading lol (and I can't be scum with Vecna now )

I wouldn't be strongly advocating that Mastina's quickhammer was not intentional, would just let the dominant thread discourse flow.

I would leave Sushi alone but always have him in a PoE so I can vote him without really pushing him.

I wouldn't be pushing SirFakez a second time after the first aggro push, wouldn't feign being unsure of him.

If I am scum this game, I am a poor mastermind

-Stuxnet

Don't sell yourself short. I think this was good mastermind play. It is so high level that it doesn't even make sense at any place.

~fire

[Trojan Horses]

Nancy, let's not...

I don't think anyone other than Titus had perfect reads here and I'm not sure Titus's read on shuichi hadn't some luck on it given she didn't read the game but only did VCA, that is kind of hit or miss although she can correct me on it herself now.

It was a good read though.

But yeah, let's not do that. WANH played well especially given they were one of the reasons we lynched Lie Ren at all.

Nah, scum did town a humongous favour by NKing them. Better than rand chance, that helped us win. I did however feel bad for Bit.

[Trojan Horses]

Nancy, let's not...

Yup, I agree it's in poor taste to call people woats

I think WANH was playing more than their stances in thread suggested, considering they were Mason.

Not if they fucking deserve it. They (2/3 heads) were deathtunnelling us and ignoring all signs that pointed to them being wrong, so not apologizing for that. At least Cakez was actually trying to sort us.

[Trojan Horses]

Nancy reading you right has 0 to do to the grand scale of things. WANH was a huge help to town here, tunneling your slot or not.

Whatever, ever since they were NK’d to this moment, I’ve been enthusiastically waiting for this moment. I’m glad you’d be cool with being deathtunnelled and discredited all damn game, I’m not.

[Trojan Horses]

Is there even one of your heads that is decent at Mafia? Serious question. If scum kills this slot, they 100% deserve to lose because they’re absolute fucking morons if they do.

why you talking to urself?

~fire

Is there even one of your heads that is decent at Mafia? Serious question. If scum kills this slot, they 100% deserve to lose because they’re absolute fucking morons if they do.

why you talking to urself?

~fire

You’re absolutely hilarious








NOT!

did you have a 10 year old write that come back for you?

~fire

Gee Churros, you didn’t seem to have a problem with any of this.

[Trojan Horses]

I think at some point, it's fine to tunnel to push people so we can get lynches going forward. The main problem I have as town is that I'll have some good takes and then never follow up on them.

I enjoyed playing with Oka and FB. The masonry discord is probably one of the most fun masonry I've been in and gobble was very fun to work with.

So, I was right? Told you @Auro.

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

Why are people so dead this game what the actual fuck

too many dead people to be fucking scum

THIS IS HOW WE LOSE BROS

CAN WE PLEASE NOT LET THIS GAME DIE

Lol this is the fakest shit of all time, this is prime 2008 era shitty scumplay

Will hammer Molla when he hits L-1, not reading anything but VCs until that happens, will be back to shitpost as the mood takes me

that's literally horse shit

Not literally

If NM flips scum, molla likely buddy.

Haha, I was the first one to call this. Scum!NM usually distances his buddies.

[Trojan Horses]

I think at some point, it's fine to tunnel to push people so we can get lynches going forward. The main problem I have as town is that I'll have some good takes and then never follow up on them.

I enjoyed playing with Oka and FB. The masonry discord is probably one of the most fun masonry I've been in and gobble was very fun to work with.

So, I was right? Told you @Auro.

What were you right on?

Gobbles being the other mason.

[Trojan Horses]

No no it's fine for people to misread us I like being thought of as a master manipulator anyway. But yeah good case for not making too much effort

Why did you change your mind on Sushi? I didn’t view that replace out as townie and I was right, when I called that AtE fake.

[Trojan Horses]

I still think Yshtola could have masterminded a win here, that would have been fun to see!

I still think it would require me to be playing on Blake and be playing at the top of my scumrange, but i think its theoretically possible yes

I initially tr you your entrance until you failed to do anything townie. Gamma pretty much ignored your slot for the most part and he usually tries to hard shade his buddies or white knight them ala Eve.

Sorry @Eve but why make a post about coasting off of RC towncred? That post read super scummy to me.

[Trojan Horses]

Churros and Nero Cain turned around their slots like pros.

Only 50% for me. I never doubted this was 100% Mastina’s towngame - plus Gamma/Mastina interactions = never buddies. Scum never talks to a buddy like that.

As for Nero, it’s not the first time he’s done that. He did the same with iffy slot Katz in HW.

[Trojan Horses]

Eve was also really townie. I haven't seen a single scum be like "Let me listen to RC" ever and 99% of the time it comes from town.

I view that as NIA. if RC had been scum, why couldn’t she have made that same post? Plus Gamma had this weird post that looked like an Eve associative but interestingly enough, I couldn’t really find one with RC, which really confused me.

[Trojan Horses]

Mastina was really obv town especially after the RC-mastina flare up. I would still endorse a vig shot on her slot tho.

yeah in hindsight yes, but meh.

town!mastina posts just don't bug me like they used to for me to sort her by that :shrug:

The problem with mastina was that she was being negative utility as town due to the RC-mastina fight.

I wish that they had resolved whatever their issues were from TM, before this game. The two of them, should probably not play together until that time or history will continue to repeat itself. Wtf happened in TM anyway to cause this massive blow out?

[Trojan Horses]

She almost always is negative utility to town as of late

Disagree. She had very good solves. I don't think her fights were wholly her "fault" but no further comments on this

She absolutely did in PA but she townlocked obvscum DDL. I hated both his opening and NM’s entrance. I thought that slot was obvscum, which was a big part of why I wanted him lynched before anyone in Halloween because I was far less confident on that and I was obviously right, Had we followed Gobbles’ suggestion, to lynch in Halloween first, we might have lost.

[Trojan Horses]

not naming names

but someone

told everyone in christmas to not play the game and to just chill while halloween played

so no one really did anything in christmas...

I wonder what sort of game plan jjh would be instating actually. jjh is a player that I recall being severely dangerous as scum, I recall he carried a seemingly lost game. So his scum buddy would likely have to be someone he rates lowly on the skill ladder if he's trying to push the focus off of his game. So I think I just talked myself out of the idea of mastina and jjh being scum together.

By the way, this is a random tangent, but I will very likely never oppose a DDL wagon because he played an extremely scummy game in the canceled 50 player large normal but was town. So I rate his town capabilities very low.

Ftr I think Elmo is still the scummiest player in the game

I don't but maybe it's just cause they were really nice to me and I'm lonely from the plague

Don't fall for Elmo's AtE!

oh i am not a wiener. where should i go on as a xmas guy

18 players is very disorienting for me

THIS IS SCUM

I thought Cakez was townie early game plus his crumb to me felt townish. I could see it being scum because of how overt it was though

I didn't crumb anything?????

I am not 100% sure on any of this

but it seems like Christmas starting townblock is something like

Bbmolla, Gobbles, NSG

I like it.

You know, I could see a jjh/DDL scumteam. I think DDL fits the brand of those whom jjh would likely poorly rate the scumgames of.
Can we please mobilize the troops in Christmas?

Pretty funny how I said I would ignore that game and now I'm focusing on it.

And Dolittle's ISO is really crap. I challenge anyone to find anything remotely town in there.

Experience with DDL as a player--have you played with him before? If so, then you'd know that DDL is like this every game.

Since he is like this every game, what makes him town here instead of null, though? That amounts to mostly gut involving DDL's opener in this game;

im excited to be able to sheep illustrious players like gobbles and baezu this game

can someone tell me what to do thanks

And these are what immediately struck me as town, because they just felt like an entrance that DDL wouldn't make as scum.

DDL is like this in every game, so why are you choosing to die on this hill of blatantly defending him? Why not take a neutral stance?

You know what, screw it. Your credibility in this game took a nosedive, even outside the laughable idea of having a townread on DDL at this moment.

@Gamma, you seriously need to work on your scum distancing some more. It was so freaking obvious that DDL was your buddy and both me and Nero caught it.

[Trojan Horses]

Mastina was really obv town especially after the RC-mastina flare up. I would still endorse a vig shot on her slot tho.

yeah in hindsight yes, but meh.

town!mastina posts just don't bug me like they used to for me to sort her by that :shrug:

The problem with mastina was that she was being negative utility as town due to the RC-mastina fight.

I wish that they had resolved whatever their issues were from TM, before this game. The two of them, should probably not play together until that time or history will continue to repeat itself. Wtf happened in TM anyway to cause this massive blow out?

She basically hates RC so much that she basically started shitting on my slot because they assumed I am RC.

But when did this start? I don’t remember them having any issues prior to TM?

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

not naming names

but someone

told everyone in christmas to not play the game and to just chill while halloween played

so no one really did anything in christmas...

I wonder what sort of game plan jjh would be instating actually. jjh is a player that I recall being severely dangerous as scum, I recall he carried a seemingly lost game. So his scum buddy would likely have to be someone he rates lowly on the skill ladder if he's trying to push the focus off of his game. So I think I just talked myself out of the idea of mastina and jjh being scum together.

By the way, this is a random tangent, but I will very likely never oppose a DDL wagon because he played an extremely scummy game in the canceled 50 player large normal but was town. So I rate his town capabilities very low.

Ftr I think Elmo is still the scummiest player in the game

I don't but maybe it's just cause they were really nice to me and I'm lonely from the plague

Don't fall for Elmo's AtE!

oh i am not a wiener. where should i go on as a xmas guy

18 players is very disorienting for me

THIS IS SCUM

I thought Cakez was townie early game plus his crumb to me felt townish. I could see it being scum because of how overt it was though

I didn't crumb anything?????

I am not 100% sure on any of this

but it seems like Christmas starting townblock is something like

Bbmolla, Gobbles, NSG

I like it.

You know, I could see a jjh/DDL scumteam. I think DDL fits the brand of those whom jjh would likely poorly rate the scumgames of.
Can we please mobilize the troops in Christmas?

Pretty funny how I said I would ignore that game and now I'm focusing on it.

And Dolittle's ISO is really crap. I challenge anyone to find anything remotely town in there.

Experience with DDL as a player--have you played with him before? If so, then you'd know that DDL is like this every game.

Since he is like this every game, what makes him town here instead of null, though? That amounts to mostly gut involving DDL's opener in this game;

im excited to be able to sheep illustrious players like gobbles and baezu this game

can someone tell me what to do thanks

And these are what immediately struck me as town, because they just felt like an entrance that DDL wouldn't make as scum.

DDL is like this in every game, so why are you choosing to die on this hill of blatantly defending him? Why not take a neutral stance?

You know what, screw it. Your credibility in this game took a nosedive, even outside the laughable idea of having a townread on DDL at this moment.

@Gamma, you seriously need to work on your scum distancing some more. It was so freaking obvious that DDL was your buddy and both me and Nero caught it.

That’s also why I was so sure Baezu was town, because Gamma hardshaded DDL but never really tried to get him lynched and he also made this weird post tr molla but pretty much avoided Sushi.

[Trojan Horses]

Spoiler:

not naming names

but someone

told everyone in christmas to not play the game and to just chill while halloween played

so no one really did anything in christmas...

I wonder what sort of game plan jjh would be instating actually. jjh is a player that I recall being severely dangerous as scum, I recall he carried a seemingly lost game. So his scum buddy would likely have to be someone he rates lowly on the skill ladder if he's trying to push the focus off of his game. So I think I just talked myself out of the idea of mastina and jjh being scum together.

By the way, this is a random tangent, but I will very likely never oppose a DDL wagon because he played an extremely scummy game in the canceled 50 player large normal but was town. So I rate his town capabilities very low.

Ftr I think Elmo is still the scummiest player in the game

I don't but maybe it's just cause they were really nice to me and I'm lonely from the plague

Don't fall for Elmo's AtE!

oh i am not a wiener. where should i go on as a xmas guy

18 players is very disorienting for me

THIS IS SCUM

I thought Cakez was townie early game plus his crumb to me felt townish. I could see it being scum because of how overt it was though

I didn't crumb anything?????

I am not 100% sure on any of this

but it seems like Christmas starting townblock is something like

Bbmolla, Gobbles, NSG

I like it.

You know, I could see a jjh/DDL scumteam. I think DDL fits the brand of those whom jjh would likely poorly rate the scumgames of.
Can we please mobilize the troops in Christmas?

Pretty funny how I said I would ignore that game and now I'm focusing on it.

And Dolittle's ISO is really crap. I challenge anyone to find anything remotely town in there.

Experience with DDL as a player--have you played with him before? If so, then you'd know that DDL is like this every game.

Since he is like this every game, what makes him town here instead of null, though? That amounts to mostly gut involving DDL's opener in this game;

im excited to be able to sheep illustrious players like gobbles and baezu this game

can someone tell me what to do thanks

And these are what immediately struck me as town, because they just felt like an entrance that DDL wouldn't make as scum.

DDL is like this in every game, so why are you choosing to die on this hill of blatantly defending him? Why not take a neutral stance?

You know what, screw it. Your credibility in this game took a nosedive, even outside the laughable idea of having a townread on DDL at this moment.

@Gamma, you seriously need to work on your scum distancing some more. It was so freaking obvious that DDL was your buddy and both me and Nero caught it.

That’s also why I was so sure Baezu was town, because Gamma hardshaded DDL but never really tried to get him lynched and he also made this weird post tr molla but pretty much avoided Sushi.

Like lololol, pretty calling a slot scummy town was a dead giveaway + your freaking out at Mastina for tr that slot. Your DDL sr was the only sr you had, where you demonstrated actual conviction and that’s obviously because of tmi.

[Trojan Horses]

@Gamma, you seriously need to work on your scum distancing some more. It was so freaking obvious that DDL was your buddy and both me and Nero caught it.

He made us look like partners to him and that was +play

Fakeclaims might be one area of improvement tho idk, nonchalantly claiming cop and going on as if nothing happened was funny

Nah, that’s rarely how scum ever treats a buddy, I think that’s beyond obvious.

[Trojan Horses]

I remember when Nancy was known as the worst hydra poster cause she slipped from all of her posts.

Now u can't get her to post out of her hydra during post game.
What timeline are we in?

I don’t know why I didn’t hydra slip, I did in Boon uPick.

[Trojan Horses]

I don’t want to think about a Nancy/Auro hydra that drew scum. It would never die

Lol, actually we did in CoC2 but Auro was barely posting in that.

[Trojan Horses]

Towards the end of the day before the night we were killed, I was trying to figure out how to make WANH more scummy and it failed.

Nancy would probably disagree with you

Thank you for bringing that up, @Bit. I want to clarify that post I made to you in response. When I said Oka should post more and Fire less, it wasn’t because I thought Oka was being “useless”, so if you misunderstood that @Oka, I apologize, since I didn’t actually try to clarify that. What I actually meant was that by misrepping and mischaracterizing my posting, Oka looked kind of scummy, where as Fire was very clearly playing to his (albeit hugely annoying ) obvtown meta.

[Trojan Horses]

I mean, in fairness without ppl correctly town reading me I couldn't "redeem" a slot so it's not like I can take all the credit.

Most of my flipflopping was because of Auro but you were bleeding obvtown here, based off of meta, as were FS and Mastina.

Although, I obviously didn’t have meta on FS.

Now that I can’t be accused of pocketing. @FS, I loved both your username as well as your avatar. I would love for us to hydra at some point.

[Trojan Horses]

you called me the WOAT repeatedly in a non playful manner

i dont think its healthy to play with people who think you are the woat

You misrepped and mischacterized my posting, deathtunneled and tried to drive a mislynch on town!us. Do you even know what that even means? It’s 100% a game-related term and if anyone were to call me that, I honestly wouldn’t care, so long as it had a logical basis. Like I freely admit to being a woat in tm, where you played extremely well in that. So, to clarify, I meant you were woat ONLY in THIS game, because obviously the exact opposite was true for TM. Like I said, it was reversed in that. In that game, I was the woat.

[Trojan Horses]

you called me the WOAT repeatedly in a non playful manner

i dont think its healthy to play with people who think you are the woat

You misrepped and mischacterized my posting, deathtunneled and tried to drive a mislynch on town!us. Do you even know what that even means? It’s 100% a game-related term and if anyone were to call me that, I honestly wouldn’t care, so long as it had a logical basis. Like I freely admit to being a woat in tm, where you played extremely well in that. So, to clarify, I meant you were woat ONLY in THIS game, because obviously the exact opposite was true for TM. Like I said, it was reversed in that. In that game, I was the woat.

Well except for my Eddie townlock, that was one of the reads I got right.

[Trojan Horses]

Gobble I was thinking of trying to design Avalon-y setups where town has information on scum they can't reveal

I'll ping you on Discord

Also, shoutout to Vecna for being MY Mason bro this game

I still don’t understand how he was ever in anyone’s PoE, he was so blatantly obviously town.

[Trojan Horses]

MS needs more jester games

Noted

+1.

I really enjoyed this setup: two micros in a large and I would totally sign up for that again, if you ever decide to remake this game.

[Trojan Horses]

@molla, you played really well, you even fooled nsg.