Guns & Roses V [Game Over]

[Iconeum]

Rawr!

[Iconeum]

Hello, all. I've come over from the artofproblemsolving forums as a few of us have been trying out the games here and have reported back positive things. Normally, we begin with some RQS, and so I'd like to propose that approach here to get things rolling:

1. What is your mafia experience like?
2. Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
3. How would you rate your scumhunting ability?

====

My own answers:

1. I've played in the region of 10 games.
2. I enjoy both for different reasons. For me, playing as town is more about solid logical play, whereas playing scum is more about emotional awareness.
3. Distinctly average. I think I often manage to identify one scum, sometimes two, but rarely an entire team by myself.

1. Absolutely terrible. I fucking hate this game.
2. Yes
3. What

is

scumhunting? How does one

define

scumhunting?

Do I scumread RQS? Why yes, yes I do.

[Iconeum]

I will also VOTE: iconeum

DrippingGoofball, do you find that your preference for playing town leads to a difference in your approach?

Hiraki, so you would normally — or at least more often than not — end Day 1 voting for mafia?

VOTE: Mr Sandman

[Iconeum]

ico, is there anything else behind your vote other than scumreading RQS?

i think the way they added a 3rd vote onto my wagon was pingy, even tho i'm probably a bit biased there

but still

[Iconeum]

Bell is pingy as well

Easily given townreads, refusal to engage when called out

[Iconeum]

VOTE: johnnyfarrar

i am slightly +town on bell for post 16. it struck me as an anti-town thing to say, however it rings like one of those anti-town things that scum are less likely to say. if it's accurate, his post felt like a "warning" to scum about albert - that i imagine scum would probably keep to a scum pt.

i had no problem with post 16

[Iconeum]

bell had like 3 town and 1 scumread after 22 posts (total ingame posts this entire game had at that time)

[Iconeum]

i know i've usually got some 'easy' early reads, but 3 town and 1 scumread after not even a page worth of posts?

[Iconeum]

tho i suppose you could argue that it isn't beneficial for scum to be sticking to reads at all like that, thus its more likely to come from town

[Iconeum]

that is a solid thought

[Iconeum]

that is a solid thought

?

i wasn't asking if you have a problem with 16, i was wondering if you could see/agree why i thought 16 was +town, though looking at it now, it's probably a dumb question and i'm assuming the answer is no.

bell had like 3 town and 1 scumread after 22 posts (total ingame posts this entire game had at that time)

i didn't take his scumread of dunn to be serious (considering it was made after dunn had posted only once).

@bell

, could you clafiry?

i don't think he's exactly sticking to his reads, hell, he walked back from his hiraki townread within the page. i don't think early reads themselves are that brave or revolutionary, but the ~event~ of townleaning hiraki and then going back on it makes me think it's more likely to be genuine town thought rather than preplanned fake reads

.

[Iconeum]

oh nice ico is town

mind if i buddy you quickly?

[Iconeum]

hey bud

what exactly did i do to get townread?

[Iconeum]

does "solid" mean "towny" or is it more like "A for effort"?

towny

[Iconeum]

townie, with an outside shot of you both being scum :p

[Iconeum]

the first time i saw RQS in action was, IIRC, in a newbie game and they were scum. If Datisi were here i'm sure they could just provide the game and number but yeah. I can't.

[Iconeum]

hey mr sandman

[Iconeum]

bring me a dream

[Iconeum]

I am curious, Iconeum, about why you answered my RQS? Do you think that RQS is pointless?

it being pointless or not depends on what *you* do with it

but in general, yeah. Not a great fan. Lucky for you, I felt like answering it.

Can you make it the cutest that I have ever seen?

[Iconeum]

*tun tun tun tun*

[Iconeum]

this discussion about bell is actually making me lean town there

[Iconeum]

there's no real point for scum to make 4 reads on page 1, because they know they will have to alter them. It's asking for trouble. While it did ping me, I don't think scum are coming out like this with reads on page 1.

[Iconeum]

that moment someone townreads you and you don't think you've obvtowned at all yet

[Iconeum]

it's called a daddy moment

[Iconeum]

i like the list in general tho

[Iconeum]

Trust me we might have 2 roses and if we pressure them to claim they might be NK and we auto lose. If we pressure them and they don't claim and we change our votes we have a better chance to win.

Nevermind, I agree with ABR.

ABR, do you have a read on DGB yet?

Town.

why?

[Iconeum]

are the cases on gun and rose actually 'i won't read roleplaying, might as well flip them' or am i missing something?

[Iconeum]

i like Akarin

VOTE: Hiraki

[Iconeum]

ico, talk to me about the hiraki vote? i see there's a sheep gif, but still.

hiraki's scumread feels… easy
on the edge of ungenuine

i like my sheepvote there

[Iconeum]

ico, talk to me about the hiraki vote? i see there's a sheep gif, but still.

hiraki's scumread feels… easy
on the edge of ungenuine

i like my sheepvote there

Do you think I'm making up reasons?

i'm saying that the reasons feel easy, to the point where it fits how i'd push as scum early day 1

[Iconeum]

Pretty sure Ico was giving troll answers.

[Iconeum]

ico, talk to me about the hiraki vote? i see there's a sheep gif, but still.

hiraki's scumread feels… easy
on the edge of ungenuine

i like my sheepvote there

Don’t really like this
I won’t deny Hiraki’s Bell read seems OMGUSy but I think he’s mildly predisposed to that sort of thinking. Can you give real reasons you feel this way?

it's about the Rose scumread, not the Bell one

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Bell

[Iconeum]

Oh,
I'm not sure. But I think you're scum this game and were stalling on your own positioning.
This + really stilted interactions and interpretations like for example, genuinely asking me if I was serious about my scum claim and like 2-3 gut pings and thoughts landed me here.
I'm gunna keep the door open and make sure I don't mess this up though.

Are you forcing yourself to post more since you know that not posting much will get you scum read?

this is a shitpush

[Iconeum]

I was reading gamma's catchup, and went increasingly 'this is town'
there positions were made clear, they questioned stuff, i didn't read a scum agenda in it

Stalling? Where?
And then some lame shady comment about 'forcing yourself to post more'?

Nah

[Iconeum]

I’m posting the amount I want to post. This is pretty much a nice clean-slate game for me I feel.

You sound genuine in that response.

and *this* post gave you good vibes?

You definitely didn't sound genuine in your 'you sound genuine' post

[Iconeum]

and...now...you're...voting...the...easy...person...read?

absolutely

[Iconeum]

i think all three of us are town

[Iconeum]

I think he can both be telling the truth in that statement and still be scum. No good vibes were had or mentioned.

As for the rest, k.

then why did you make the statement in the first place?

[Iconeum]

Er, if I eliminate two scum I'm probably town and would probably try to keep my head overwater since that increases the odds of a town win even more. I'd gladly take a 2 scum for 1 town trade tho.
Though, I'm still not quite getting it.
It's probably easier just to read me for....however I'm playing here and just note the very obvious differences between my scum and town games. I just plain don't play the same.
VOTE: Dunstral

Roses are red
Scum have the blues
I wonder who took guns
They will probably shoot you

[Iconeum]

it's a work in progress, i'm not quite there yet

[Iconeum]

Weekend Vla soon

[Iconeum]

rawr!

ketching up

[Iconeum]

I am curious to see what you make of Iconeum's later reversal of his position

i wonder what you make of me reversing the reversal of my reversing

[Iconeum]

I don’t have a huge amount from iconeum but they wanted to day vig me in the last game we were in together so, at least they’re consistent.

wait

what game was that?

[Iconeum]

pls gib

[Iconeum]

Egoreadup

Y'know...
VOTE: sandman it smells real strong IIOA smell and im only on page 4

Bells town, all votes there has to stop

this is way too much information for a town to have, after 10! minutes of reading

[Iconeum]

Gamma to my knowledge is not a particularly accurate hunter. I've watched him lose a lot of games.

[Iconeum]

Abr has been scummy this game.

hot take

scummy abr =/= scum abr

[Iconeum]

Also looking at the mass claim talk it seems we’re essentially doing a DoP strat here
I guess that works imo.

ah yes

the good 'ol DoP strat

?

[Iconeum]

Everybody that just died was town reading me.

Except Akarin.

this isn't a valid reason to townread you?

[Iconeum]

room temperature take: VOTE: johnnyfarrar

< insert disagreement about massclaiming today here >

why do you not want massclaim today?

i'm not for or against it, just wanna hear the thoughts process here

[Iconeum]

Who'd you shoot btw, DGB?

Nobody

But you softed N1 gun HARD
:fry_leer:

I lied.

basicly a scumclaim, right?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: DGB

Notable pings are the quotes in this spoiler

Spoiler:

that moment someone townreads you and you don't think you've obvtowned at all yet

There is a name for a player that does that: scum.

that moment someone townreads you and you don't think you've obvtowned at all yet

There is a name for a player that does that: scum.

do you think uncrowned is scummy for it?

On page 5.... it could be scum seizing the narrative early.

Who'd you shoot btw, DGB?

Nobody

But you softed N1 gun HARD
:fry_leer:

I lied.

Twice they insinuated a scumread, but instead of actually scumreading they tried to 'softly guide' someone else into scumreading them

Explicitely crumbing N1 gun and lying about it is just… scum. I think.

[Iconeum]

I wouldn't know a good fake claim if it hit me in the head tho.

bulletproof vengefull?

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

[Iconeum]

@umlaut, have you read *any* of the game? got any takes for us so far?

Haven't done any reading to speak of, no. I did take a quick look at your own ISO when I was sheeping your vote to make sure nothing screamed scummy to me, and saw a few posts I found towny in tone (67, 149, 232) and nothing that really pinged me, so I'm leaning town on you. My plan is to just read from the point where I subbed in and only go back if something catches my eye and I want to get more info about that. I've found that trying to just "read everything" really just doesn't work, I end up skimming and realizing at the end that I haven't really formed any impressions at all; whereas if I'm looking into something specific I end up reading more intently and actually getting something out of it.

Akarin's Gamma vote makes sense to me, I don't like how Gamma's explanation for voting him is basically "well _someone_ gave a reason for that wagon, as I recall" and it feels more like he's looking for a reason to be on not-the-leading-wagon.

In fact, it makes enough sense for me to
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

this is pingy in a bad way

'i quickly skimmed your iso to check if you aren't glaringly scummy before sheeping you' is just such a bad town take, i think it comes from scum
the added vote and way about it is just pingy

yeah

don't like this post

[Iconeum]

Also, Umlaut’s questions here remind me of a VERY common scum tactic where they try to fish out reasons to figure out the move to make. It’s not just a mafia tell, it also works well in Among Us. If someone acts “who are we voting” close to the end of a meeting, it’s likely they’re an impostor trying to figure out the best vote that they can push.

good take

[Iconeum]

Iconeum, how would you compare/contrast your play this game to your play in Mini 2180?

is it ok if i just deny your request to self-meta?

be my guest to make the analysis yourself and discuss your findings with me

[Iconeum]

oh boy oh boy

hiii there

[Iconeum]

what do you think about voting him, then? you're not voting anyone right now.

I was waiting to see what his response to pressure would be, and letting other things play out. But nothing is happening, so sure.

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

umlaut beginning to surface as a counterwagon, so i'd expect scum to push a desired mis-exe a bit harder

stuff like this, actually

[Iconeum]

Why not let mom shoot, if you think it’s a town/town coin flip?

not sure i get what you mean by "town/town coin flip". when i called them a coin flip, i meant it as "alignment could go either way". i don't like the day being wasted, an extra flip will help direct any town shots, and the slot could always be scum trying to make it to night to fire.

Tanner asks why the JF wagon collapses and proceeds to call scum everyone that is still on it.

i assume you're referring to my 810, and no. at that time, the johnny wagon was me and hiraki; i've been vocal about my hiraki townread and i know my own role PM. the people who hopped on, *then* hopped off without any reasoning are more likely scum imo.

There's a VC on the last page. JF is at four votes. Yours would be L minus one.

I still feel we should do something that explains the D1 data but I don't want to read.

what is this "something" that you want to do? flip akarin?

Can we get a claim from JF?

i believe he's currently at E-2, and is him claiming really gonna do anything?

if i had a gun, i'd shoot this slot just for the last line alone

[Iconeum]

That’s fair, but I feel like you’ve been a mild non-entity for a good chunk of the game
Also idk if I’m fine with you playing yesman to me after that game
Like if you agree cool but the way you said it has me wondering. I do think it’s a little brazen to pocket me THAT openly tho

tbf, i think i just called out umlaut prior to 'pocketing' you
and i'm just going thru my catchup (tho obviously i could fake that if i'm scum)

up to you to decide

yeah i probably understand your reluctance towards my slot here

[Iconeum]

That’s fair, but I feel like you’ve been a mild non-entity for a good chunk of the game
Also idk if I’m fine with you playing yesman to me after that game
Like if you agree cool but the way you said it has me wondering. I do think it’s a little brazen to pocket me THAT openly tho

i agree that i've not been very influencial this game so far
if i'm alive with fewer people around, that will probably change

but i think i've been giving my opinions pretty straightforward despite that?

[Iconeum]

Titus is a townlean

I know they're a good player, and there's simply not enough content yet for a full analysis but I specifically liked their talk about competing wagons

[Iconeum]

I'll put it like this

If i had a gun, my shooting pool would be something like

Tanner/Bell/Dunn/Umlaut/DGB

[Iconeum]

i have no idea what that game is

[Iconeum]

what ya think of my scumpool?

[Iconeum]

I'm not scumreading Bell as much as I was during D1

their pressure towards dunn is good

but when rereading D1 I just can't put them out of my pool altogether

[Iconeum]

I brought it up again because no one seemed to have noticed or commented.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

why vote GE here?

[Iconeum]

one person’s alignment is NOT a coin flip by the virtue of everyone having a ~75% chance of being town

and having non-them townreads and assuming they're correct maths it out to like basically close to a coinflip. you know what i mean.

Can we get a claim from JF?

i believe he's currently at E-2, and is him claiming really gonna do anything?

if i had a gun, i'd shoot this slot just for the last line alone

mhm? claims are useful in two scenarios here: if we're all massclaiming and getting conftowns out of it (i.e. if scum decides to all claim the same thing) or one other scenario which is unlikely to happen and would require further claims anyway. any other claim is basically worthless / easily fakeable. so... that is bullet-worthy why?

i had an idea of what dgb was softing but then i realized it doesn't make any sense so now i'm just confused.

I brought it up again because no one seemed to have noticed or commented.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

what's this vote for?

also welcome replacements.

ok

[Iconeum]

Can we pls not fucking stagnate rn

i didnt realize this was a dead game when i joined

you joined a couple days ago and from what i can see you've caught up to… what?
10 pages?

and then you complain about this game being ded?

gtfo

[Iconeum]

Yeah, this game needs life.

what ya think of my 'would shoot if i had a gun' selection?

[Iconeum]

I never say anything mean, i am exceedingly nice.

Uhhhhh I think Bell is town and one of the only people who cares about this game. Dunn i don't hve read one.
I didn't really notice ur push on gamma i guess i should look at that.

there's like

a lot of noise coming from fire, without much content imo
probably a good flip

[Iconeum]

who did he rep in for anyway?

[Iconeum]

okay here is my master solve btw:
Ico/Dunnstral/Tanner

How did i pick these people? I don't have townreads and i just thought "who would make a nice scum team", and that was my list.

I wish for my scummy award now

[Iconeum]

yeah

we'll see just how much of that team holds up by tomorrow lol

[Iconeum]

Ohh cool. So i am the "ehh this game is dead lets just eliminate someone" guy. Nice.

How u doing akarin

I really don't like that approach despite you SRing me.

yeah it was extremely passive aggressive. But i got to be honest with myself, was pretty annoying to see after just replacing in and being at E-1

so your first instinct is to just read the first ten pages of the game and then start complaining about nothing happening?

yeah sure

[Iconeum]

Like I didn't even get the chance once to claim scum.
Before i was put at E-1 Titus.

Not even one scum claim for me.
Thats too fast.

I agree. It makes me feel scum are hiding something about day 1.

this agreeing here is yuck

[Iconeum]

Like I didn't even get the chance once to claim scum.
Before i was put at E-1 Titus.

Not even one scum claim for me.
Thats too fast.

I agree. It makes me feel scum are hiding something about day 1.

Ummm...u agree but i don't think u know what ur agreeing to. I am saying I didn't get chance to claim scum myself.....if i was confusing.

Who and what u talking about

The wagon is too static and slow.

When I came in, I wanted to sort day 1. I get roadblocked. You get run up. This I don't feel is a coincidence.

holy sweet mother of shading
only not towards a specific person but like

the entire game?

[Iconeum]

why is no one interested in this game...people this is a game designed by Fakegod.
I don't think u youngins appreciate what that means.

this is just a blatant scumpost imo

it's hard to explain, but it fits that place where scum come from

just perfectly

an easy callout to make you look townie but without actually doing anything or not committing to anything

[Iconeum]

Can we pls not fucking stagnate rn

i didnt realize this was a dead game when i joined

you joined a couple days ago and from what i can see you've caught up to… what?
10 pages?

and then you complain about this game being ded?

gtfo

this is prod dodge post lol

excuse me?

a prod dodge?

[Iconeum]

you know what's disingenous?

calling me prod dodging when i've posted within the last 24 hours

[Iconeum]

*checks post count*

i'm in a solid number 4 spot when it comes to posting
you wanna have a go at me over this?

let's fucking go bruh

[Iconeum]

ah you repped in for Mr. Johny

that's too bad

[Iconeum]

now that i'm caught up, i *will* agree this game is on a virtual stand-still tho

[Iconeum]

it's been like that ever since Johny got up towards E-2/1

[Iconeum]

u gonna drop whatever act ur doing?

if u think this is an act, you don't know who ur dealing with

[Iconeum]

rip johnny

glad u agree this game is stale. It is bout hte least controversial take i made that somehow we get into slap fight over

I think the wagon on you is bad mkay
There's like

stuff i don't like about you repping in but a lot might just be a clash of character which is fine

[Iconeum]

i dislike the Tanner slot because of how they put your wagon at E-1 IIRC

[Iconeum]

ok Fire

now that we've done our mating dance

let's talk business

[Iconeum]

clash of character

i mean we always gotten along before so i think this is bunk

ehhh, maybe my wording was a little harsh

we both have a confrontive playstyle

[Iconeum]

we don't talk business in front of the children.

very well

*steps into a side room*
*invites firebringer inside*

come here

[Iconeum]

Tanner/Bell/Dunn/Umlaut/DGB

this hasn't changed much

maybe bell drops out

[Iconeum]

let us spice things up?

i will shoot 1 in this bracket tonight

probably

[Iconeum]

gut narrowing that down brings me to

Tanner/Umlautvirgo/DGB

[Iconeum]

do you think i'd hit scum if i shot there?

[Iconeum]

this is all hypothetical ofcourse

[Iconeum]

Tanner/Bell/Dunn/Umlaut/DGB

this hasn't changed much

maybe bell drops out

i mean, dunn is in my somewhat larger solve here so ok

but why take DGB out?

[Iconeum]

going thru the playerlist, gamma and akarin are pretty much my only townreads
Firebringer maaaybe as well, but mainly due to being the popular wagon so ???

how sad is that

[Iconeum]

i checked, it was E1 on another player, but the vote was still bad?

i'm like

not feeling your towniness here