revO emaG - TENET

[skitter30]

Thank you everyone for universally deciding I should be flipped the week I am V/LA because of work

midwaybear is probably scum for hopping on so easily and Bell looks atrocious cheering this on from the other thread

and like this response to a push on you is just? not good

[skitter30]

it's premature, you're not close to getting flipped atm

[skitter30]

I feel like spiffeh and peta are cross bussing here FB my dude.

well that's a bizarre thought

[skitter30]

Peta out here on and off voting people, not committing, just barely doing enough to be called targetting spiffeh while not interacting with him.

no offense, but i think you're tunneled. like this doesn't even accurately describe his play in this interaction, you're seeing what you want to see

[skitter30]

I'm like a bloodhound with a scent. Unless something huge changes, Peta is dying today. This might be egotistical, but I feel it's accurate.

i mean

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: Skitter

~sync

sigh
you guys are so annoying to deal with

[skitter30]

k

[skitter30]

I just remembered I'm allowed to vote more than one person and my utter hatred for that response drove me.

like how do you think i should respond to it at this point?

[skitter30]

they've been on my case for weeks, tunneled me for shit reasons for two weeks, actively made a series of dumb choices that contributed to making the gamestate a wreck as of right now, and haven't really expressed much interest in actually interacting with me for much of game

pedit, no i'm saying i'm exasperated and like they keep circing back here for little reason and i don't think they're actually interested in much i have to say so i'm like whatever.

i'm not sure it's nai, but i'm p sure whatever their alignment they just want to scumread me for meh reasons

[skitter30]

wanna murderize in spiffeh and pooky today

[skitter30]

like at this point i'm kinda viewing the hydrae as like osbstacles to work around as either alignment
they're around, but whatever they're doing is actively not helping mechanically and they don't really seem to be helping with solving either (at least not in this thread where i can see it, doing it elsewhere and coming back to the thread and being vague and obscure doesn't count)

they're drifting in and out and not really doing anything, and if that's what they're gonna come back with i'm just like ... ok? thanks for sharing? am i supposed to do something with that?

this is how i feel abt both of those slots rn (ceph is fine tho, this isn't abt him)

[skitter30]

wanna murderize in spiffeh and pooky today

Pooky not scum and Spiffeh probably only scum with Peta.

So no. I'm doing you or Peta or A50 today. Those are my only options.

that's nice

[skitter30]

One of the reasons I think skitter is scum (and if she is, dandelion likely just isn't) is that she keeps throwing that sentiment around but has I think no vehicle to push either of us because we're both town.
I got her initial frustration with a lot of the reasons for pushes on her early on because there was a ton of cloak and dagger shit going on in hoods. At this point I think that kind of crap is actively detracting from the game and I've been pretty much boycotting the hood today because of it.

So now's the time to have a bit of a thread reset - Skitter, others: where's the scum in the "not heavily contested townreads" and why.
Because I want to know if you legitimately think that.
Nothing's off limits.

i mean ... again, from my pov, you lot have done nothing for a week and came back with a vote on me that isn't explained, has no progression, and as best as i see came out of thin air. do you not see why this might be *currently actively frustrating*? not just for the fact that the vote was on me but for the fact that i literally can't tell how or why or when you came to that conclusion, what your reads are, or what you're even doing in this game.

like you're calling me out for being annoyed abt this as you *actively continue to do it* so you placing the onus on me for being annoyed is, frankly, ridiculous

like you boycotting the hood today because it's not helpful is ... exactly impossible for me to see happening? how am i supposed to know that you stopped doing it? like ...

i want to vote out spiffeh or pooky today
fire and lld and peta are town
lld is absurdly tunneled and her push on peta is ridiculous
you and dandelion are probably town but are being literally actively unhelpful and so, once again, i'm viewing you as being ostacles to getting anything done and until i can actually understand what you're thinking and why and see what you're like actually doing to solve this shitshow that's presumably where my approach is going to stay because you're giving me very little to work with and the things you're doing are either actively anti-town, screwing things over, or inscrutable.
a50 i need to do a reset on
spiffeh is probably scum
pooky is probably scum
midway is eh probably town? or like lhf lurker push as either alignment
ithink that's everyone

[skitter30]

like i'm not trying to vote you out for it because you're probably town but it's fucking annoying and i'm just sick of it

[skitter30]

Skitter you fucking call the hydras a problem but then reset your reads and don't seem to have a fucking grasp of anything but still say this shit like you have a fucking angle to push.

i. am. not. pushing. an. angle.

i. am. not. trying. to. yeet. them.

i. want. them. to. be. transparent. and. explain. their. reads. and. what. they're. thinking.

they are not currently doing so and i've lost patience for it

[skitter30]

just want to say that the reaction to the vote here

and the giant angry post about hydras after

are dissonant from each other

because i'm exasperated and annoyed and they're not helping

[skitter30]

ok. look at deacon's day3 iso and tell me they've been solving in this thread?

[skitter30]

it's existed for like four weeks
i've had this thought before you did
i've had this thought after you did

you're acting like i just came up with this idea when i've been saying this since like mid-day1, and have complained abt it throughout, including during and while you did

it's just like at some point no matter their alignment they're still doing the same thing, and it's unhelpful and frustrating af

[skitter30]

I feel like i've talked quite a bit about what my reads are. Peta even asked me for a list, and I gave it (I think my list would be different now, but that's neither here nor there regarding your objection to my play)

What am i actively continuing to do that you're being annoyed about? Like I seriously don't get it? What have I ever done to you that makes it impossible to deal with me?

re: boycotting the hood: You can literally ask cabd, ceph, or dunnstral if i've been saying shit to that effect in the hood (that I'm tuning it out) if you don't believe me, lol. I feel like that's pretty obvious.

you're saying that you're taking a concrete action to help with this problem that is literally impossible for me to see or know about without *asking the people in said hood how you're interacting there*.
like why would it even occur to me to think you're not posting there in order to mitigate this when you've made no indication as such here?
again literally the exact thing i'm complaining about?

i don't see you guys solving. i can't say what's going on in the hood so i don't know what's happening there. all i can see is what's happening here and you're not doing anything helpful here. like the onus is on you to actually be solving, not be like 'oh when i was asked for my reads i even gave it'. that's what i mean. you're like around. you're answering questions. you're not actually trying to solve here as far as i see.

coming in and dropping a naked vote is, like, not helpful

and again you're probably not even scum for it but you're not contributing anything helpful

and it's not a personal thing, or a you-in-general thing, but i think that your slot int his game is just ... actively being useless at best and -ev to town at worst and i was under the impression you guys are, idk, like somewhat capable, and it's actively disappointing and frustrated dealing with you because you've been doing this all game

[skitter30]

it's existed for like four weeks
i've had this thought before you did
i've had this thought after you did

you're acting like i just came up with this idea when i've been saying this since like mid-day1, and have complained abt it throughout, including during and while you did

it's just like at some point no matter their alignment they're still doing the same thing, and it's unhelpful and frustrating af

"i had this idea before you but i didn't do anything so when you did it and i said nothing about it and didn't support you i was just uh watching and thinking about how smart and clever i was for having that idea before you and doing nothing."

i mean come on

that isn't what i was getting at and i'm p sure you know that, but thanks for being disingenuous?

[skitter30]

I would joke post to calm everyone down but don't think it will. So lets be friendos and decide which one of us deserves to be deado instead.

sigh
i will stop now
i am very frustated with them tho

i want to murderize spiffeh or pooky

[skitter30]

bork i'm sorry that was an overaction, i apologize
i'm just very frustrated but i probably shouldn't have actually written that all out that way

[skitter30]

lld is absurdly tunneled on someone i'm p sure is town

[skitter30]

I mean the only reason I brought it up is I wanted to note that I was making a good faith effort to not do the things that you (and others) have taken umbrage to in the past...and your angle seemed to be that since I can't prove I'm doing it that I'm not, and when I ask you what exactly your issue is with my play today you just say "they're not solving" or "you show me where they're solving" and you just keep falling back on that argument or flipping the burden of proof on me

re: naked vote: I am not required to convince you you're scum.

re: -ev to town: whatever. If I'm bad, post game I'll mea culpa to your heart's content if that will help. I do the best w/ what I've got. (I'm not taking it as a personal attack)

the issue isn't that you' can't prove it. like i absolutely believe that you are in fact making that good faith effort. my point is that the fruit/output of the good faith effort is not visible, so the fact that it's happening doesn't really change anything from waht i can see because to my eye there was no change, and i had no reason to even think that it was happening

like my issue is that *by not sharing that that's what you're doing* it's impossible for me to see that the good faith effort even exists, which is ultimately kinda compouding the problem: the good faith effort is happening but isn't publicized, so it's exactly as behind closed doors as everything else that you're doing. so the fact that you're doing it didn't really affect how i view anythings because up until like 10 mintues ago i had no reason to know that it existed, so to my pov and what i can see here, it doesn't actually look like you're doing anything at all.

i think you misunderstood my angle because that's not where i was going with it, i hope i explained it better.

like i had no reason to think that solving had lessened in the hood, so i was assuming that's where the solving was happening. like not solving here, yes in hood, because that's what was happening days1 and 2 and i didn't really see anything to make me think that's changed

and now you're telling me that's changed, and that you're not in fact solving in the hood. in which case ok? so you're not solving in the hood, but i still don't rally see you solving here? which is fundementally my issue

and yeah that wasn't menat to be a personal attack, i apologize for that bit. i meant: within the game capacity your two slots are actively taking action (or inactions) that i think are making it harder to solve the game, whatevr your alignment

[skitter30]

people w/ skitter experience: is this ATE legit? does she do this as scum to wriggle out of stuff?

-b

no

[skitter30]

or technially once yes but it was a very niche case. otherwise no.

[skitter30]

that was the meanest she will ever be.

i try to keep that the max mean-level and even that i feel bad and think i went too far :/

i try very hard not to ate as both alignments. it's more likely to come from town than scum tho
once as scum i did it on purpose (just the once, niche case, and i don't want to do that on the regular) but other than that i'm very like ~emotionally controlled~ as scum and keep a p good facade . as town i just get annoyed and angry and take things way too personally

i don't think i'd be frustrated as scum here but obviously self meta take with a gain of salt etc

[skitter30]

I don't have any response to 7528 that i think would improve this conversation other than i think skitter has just decided I'm not solving and that's that, which ok noted i guess, and i think one of my children just hurt himself very badly upstairs so, uh, back later

-b

i mean basically yes, and that's why i'm frustrated because you're like probably (?) town but not solving really

and i hope he's ok!

[skitter30]

i think we should massclaim

i don't think the votes for lld or pooky are there so functionally this is just going to go around in circles for a while and go unresolved so we should just divert attention to spiffeh and pooky

[skitter30]

oh nvm my youngest just whacked my middle somethin fierce geez

-b

oh gosh, hope everyone is ok

[skitter30]

idk i think it's nearly everyone which is why i think we should just finish it off
and cabd too for all of us not hoods ...

[skitter30]

i mean to the best of my knowledge i'm still probably the strongest invest we have (gated of course)

[skitter30]

Skitter you've posited a deepwolf in the townblock. You've been jabbing at us forever, but apparently dandelion or we aren't your suspect.

Who is?

I dont know

[skitter30]

i thinki the other thread should vote out bell

[skitter30]

skitter how is rl going. r u doing better? i hope ur doing better

i mostly am actually
ty for asking. how are you doing?

[skitter30]

ceph i think you're playing great and are eminently more readable than cabd

[skitter30]

you took one quote from 6037 and asked why I townread a50, when the point of 6037 was that I scumread a50

this level of dense could very well be outside your townrange, brian!

honestly i think it is probably town-indicative for brian

[skitter30]

i'm kinda onboard with yeeting pooky at this point

[skitter30]

i wasn't really before, this is a relatively new thing for me. like past two-three real life days

[skitter30]

oh dear :/
i'm happy that today was better tho!

[skitter30]

again just because *you* have all this information doesn't mean the rest of us do ...
(like bork ffs it's still ongoing, this is why i'm annoyed)

[skitter30]

cabd i already had a whole thing abt this a few hours ago, but in short, yes
i think that you're still being intentionally obscure and not solving here, and that whatever you're doing is not helping anything

[skitter30]

like you guys are acting like i'm being unreasonable for wanting to know why your'e scumreading me when it's not actually being discussed here

[skitter30]

i can't tell what's in the hood so that's literally impossible for me to say
he's doing it here.
it's annoying af and i'm losing patience for dealing with it

sorry if you don't like how i'm reacting or whatever but the circlejerk is annoying. how you're approaching the game is annoying. the fact that you don't see why other people might find this frustrating is annoying

[skitter30]

idk what you're trying to say

pedit cabd feel free to do your thing. i am hiatusing literally as soon as i'm out of here and i don't care to put in energy again for this.
i really, really hope you try to take another approach tomorrow because you've sufficiently managed to screw up this game in about six different ways

[skitter30]

at some point bop should kick in too, as far as i'm aware you're not supposed to be this wrong
but hopefully tomorrow

[skitter30]

If you’re about to do what I think you are you’re in for a world of I told you sos

i mean once i flip people are just gonna turn to you but alright

[skitter30]

fire what are the odds that town!cabd is actually this wrong and manages to make this many mechanical misteps
(and again this isn't for today, before people tell me i'm trying to be survivalistic, i don't care abt today. i care abt being right and having people listen to me after the fact)

[skitter30]

I mean... if you're gonna speedrun cakez any% without any new material, that's cool?

cabd you are super, super, super frustrating to deal with

[skitter30]

that's good.

[skitter30]

at some point bop should kick in too, as far as i'm aware you're not supposed to be this wrong
but hopefully tomorrow

so is someone scum here or what's this mean?

-b

idk. he's either outrageously wrong as town or scum, those are kinda the only two options.
either way he's playing distinctly antitown, which is what i was saying earlier

[skitter30]

like idk. he's supposed to be good. he's literally gotten nothing right. could he be having an offgame? sure. happens to all of us. it's annoying af to be bop'd too.
but like i don't undertstand what he's thinking, why he's doing it, and like his reaction to my annie case was +town and probably doesn't come from scum but i have no idea how he went from there to here so like idk. i don't have enough context to gauge what's happening so i can't say. (and again you being outraged that i'm daring to ask for a case is ridiculous).

last i understood you were townreading me. i don't know what changed. i don't know what prompted the change. i just don't know.
like i don't have what i need to read you so i can't take a firm stance

you're not going to like that. that's fine and idc
but you're actively witholding the information i need to come down on either side so like

[skitter30]

idk. he's either outrageously wrong as town or scum

the difference between the two is something you just never seem that interested in discerning

-b

no, i'm definitely interested. i just don't have what i need to make an assessment and i get rebuffed when i asked. it's been like, what, three weeks since we started this whole rigamarole and you rebuff me each time so i'm not really expecting anything different but like if i keep asking and you refuse to answer like i'm not really sure what you want from me.

i need to understand your/his slots reads to read you. you're actively witholding that.
it's hard for me to form reads when i can't see thought processes and motivtions.

i can pull out probably dozens of examples of me trying to understand your reads and getting rebuffed.

[skitter30]

like at eod 2 cabd was definitely townreading me (post annie case)
he makes a post at some point i think sunday night recounting his reads from the hood and his read on me is osmething like 'for every psot she makes that i like there's one i don't', which is, well, ambiguous
then deacon votes me. since they don't do anything without cabd's approval that means he changed his mind at some point

that's his recent progression on me
i'm not a mindreader. there's nothing connecting the dots there.
i have no way of gauging if this is real or not because the data is actively being withheld

so like how on earth am i supposed to know. i don't know what he's doing or why or what's prompting it. like maybe he's just making shit up and is scum and saw an oppurtunistic push. maybe he actually has reasons and it makes a lot of sense

i just don't know, because i can't tell what he's doing and why

pedit @bork. why are you scurmeading me. like if you can actually give a few sentences with reasons that would be helpful
even better, why is cabd scumreading me, and how did the progression change, and what actually prompted it, and what was the post number in thread that timestamp wise lines up to what he was saying in the hood
that's a big ask which i don't expect to be answered but that's what i need to actually understand progressions and i'm using that to illustrate the point that by not solving here you're preventing me from being able to read people the way i usually do

[skitter30]

their role is very +scum and it's the biggest source of paranoia for me

also things like this is what's annoying. you know what his role is. this is apparently a relevant data point. i do not.
like actively playing in the dark is frustrating because i don't know why it's being played this way and you're making silly decisions off of it

[skitter30]

can you show me an instance of me rebuffing you on something because i'm legitimately trying to empathize here

-b

you was a collective you for you/ffery/bork
i can quote a whole bunch, do you really want that?

[skitter30]

since they don't do anything without cabd's approval that means he changed his mind at some point

Oh piss off, that very much isn't the case.

i'm not sure if you're objecting to 'deacon doesn't seem to do anything without running it by cabd' or 'cabd changed his mind at some point'
but either way from my pov that's what it looks like to me

[skitter30]

hostilities are rising. Firebringer doesn't approve.

i'm not gonna get hostile

[skitter30]

then deacon votes me.

since they don't do anything without cabd's approval

that means he changed his mind at some point

This is false. particularly if you're thinking ANYTHING we've done in the last 24-36 hours was with pre-approval.

i mean ok? it looks the same from here so like if this is something i'm supposed to just divine i cannot
from my pov it looks coordinated and like you discussed it and came to this conclusion
if it's not than the timing is incredibly weird

[skitter30]

their role is very +scum and it's the biggest source of paranoia for me

also things like this is what's annoying. you know what his role is. this is apparently a relevant data point. i do not.
like actively playing in the dark is frustrating because i don't know why it's being played this way and you're making silly decisions off of it

You know everything about their role that we do. They are a purple room neighborhood gatecrasher.

i thought that was a general game mechanic, not that this is their role
and yes that's scum af?

~
or more accurately i thought ~they got added to the room at some point~ (but not necessarily under their own violition)
and that if there's anything like a purple room spy they would be scum
them literally being a role that can add themselves to the purple room is incredibly scummy

[skitter30]

can you show me an instance of me rebuffing you on something because i'm legitimately trying to empathize here

-b

you was a collective you for you/ffery/bork
i can quote a whole bunch, do you really want that?

for real, yes, i absolutely want that

-b

ok, and in return can i get like three sentences of reasons for why you're scumreading me?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: dandelion

their role being outed is what needed to like make sense of what's happening. now there's a nice 'aha' moment and things start making sense again
i actually think he's just scum
(sorry ceph you're still awesome)

(i'm aware people are gonna shout omgus, etc, it's not. it's the claim/role, which would have been helpful to have a while ago but you know)

pedit good god that's literally a scum ability. you're pocketed

[skitter30]

having all the relevant information like a week ago would have been nice but better late than never i suppose.

that's literally the prototypical scum role in this setup. it's the exact role i was thinkign 'man if it existed it's for sure scum'. he has it, he claimed it to pocket you.

bork i will compile a list for you but it will take a bit of time/a few hours cuz long iso etc. i'm not ignoring it it's just gonna take some time

[skitter30]

why are you scurmeading me. like if you can actually give a few sentences with reasons that would be helpful

i mean, i could do this, sure (and have a decent amount in thread about it already), but like I thought we were talking about what you want from me regarding how i can give you your agency back because so much of our play has involved neighborhood play that we're keeping guarded

-b

well they're tied together. i don't like things are being kept guarded because it's withholding the data that i need to solve things.
if i got the data i wouldn't mind as much.

[skitter30]

Nope. Bork has wanted to vote you for a few days. I wanted to hold off and watch the interactions with the current wagons, and also wanted to simmer on the stuff that you've been doing that bugs me -- jabbing and digging, but never actually getting to grips with us.

It was my idea and only my idea to ask LLD about the purple room. It was a purely gut decision to see how she reacted.

It was my idea to finally vote you and I checked with bork to see if it was still where his head is at. I didn't post a word about it in the neighborhood.

It was my idea to vote A50, and I checked with bork and no one else.

I should probably work a lot more closely with bork than I do, but we're partners not a hive mind.

I have backed away somewhat on the neighborhood because bork isn't comfortable with it, and sometimes I want to live in my own thoughts, too.

ok, and once again, given that literally none of this was in thread from my pov it's impossible to know this and i was working with the information i had.
i can't know what you're thinking or doing to solve things when you're not sharing your thougths ...

[skitter30]

skitter i don't think ur gonna get a dandellion eliminaation today

oh i'm hyper aware, do not fear, but they're still scum so i'm voting them

[skitter30]

like from my pov: deacon votes me (slightly anglign towards there)
two hours later cabd comes back and decides to vote me (with very little prior progression)

given the whole ffery/cabd thing do you really think ti's an unreasonable concusion to think these two things are related?
like if there's other things prompting it they're not being brought up in thread so to me, from what i can see, those look like releated events

[skitter30]

it happens to be a town ability. this is why you don't just kill people for role spec, which i'd think you could empathize with given how everyone tried to kill you over role spec. we only have 2 shots, if that helps.

i do greatly empathize, yes.
but your slot being scum with that role coupled with how the mechanical misteps keep happening (ahem coordinating the spiffeh / super bowl thing????) and how the interactions aroudn the purple room have happened makes a stupid amount of sense

this strongly implies either spiffeh or superbowl being scum as well

[skitter30]

i feel like you're just walking this back to "you're a hydra how am i supposed to deal with that" which is =/

-b

hmm? i don't fully understand what you're saying here

[skitter30]

i guess since u can multivote it isn't like ur giving up anything so maybe ur still being pragmatic

yeah we're multivoters, i don't give up anything by voting dandelion as well
it would be dumb of me to utilize my one vote on him but that's not what i'm doing

[skitter30]

This is on you. Their role WAS DISCUSSED IN THREAD on day 2.

yes, i agree that it was obvious they were in the purple room n1. i and literally everyone else knows this

it was *not* obvious that *he had a role that enabled him to choose to be there that night*. that's the new part
like the part of *how he get there* was never made clear or obvious and i'm p confident that the fact that this was *literally his role* was never in thread day2.

[skitter30]

it was *not* obvious that *he had a role that enabled him to choose to be there that night*. that's the new part

what did you think happened?

-b

he got added in some way. i was thinking specifically that people in purple room can choose to add a slot that night. that wouldn't have been scum indicative for him, because it makes sense that you/imperium would add him

the fact that dandelion put themselves in there is stupidly scum indicative given who was there that night and how the purple room stuff later unfolded, and the longer-term affects of it

(basically how the superbowl/spiffeh thing happened was bizarre, and there was a scum involved, and i'm now like 85% certain it's cabd)

like i keep saying the game is fucky and that it's stemming from what you two did that night, and that's why i'm getting paranoid because the events that happened didn't feel natural. do you kinda follow what i'm thinking or do i need to take astep back and try to explain this better?

[skitter30]

i can hammer purple room and vote pooky

no hammer purple room yet, it's scum-infected most likely

[skitter30]

am i dead yet?

nope welcome back, how u doin

i lost a fair chunk of money because some people decided to try an insurrection and a friend apparently has covid.

but other than that it's pretty good.

oh no i'm sorry to hear that

[skitter30]

I don’t know.

It’s weird seeing skitter in tinfoil notsci land now that she’s caught up.

Still struggling to see bell, hp, you, and Dunn flip red.

hmmm?

[skitter30]

i can hammer purple room and vote pooky

no hammer purple room yet, it's scum-infected most likely

does it matter, like what are they gonna do, tell lld to keep tunneling me if shes town

i wanna put a pin in the purple room now because i'm p sure it's been put to ill-use two days in a row now

[skitter30]

events that happened didn't feel natural

you can go into more detail on this in particular, sure

-b

tldr is basically:
the purple room keeps being put to use in ways that just isn't helping town? the obvious egregious example is spiffeh + superbowl. at the start of day2 cabd came in and was like 'we did something mysterious that is going to help town loads! we need to purple room superbowl and spiffeh' and it eventually unfolded that this was because there was a Super Secret Turnstile in the purple room and they would get to turnstile. i don't remember offhand the reasoning they gave for superbowl (strong pr?) and the reasonign for spiffeh iirc was 'imperium wasn't townrading them that strongly and we wanted to make sure we helped clear the forward thread if possible'. so that would imply that they had some suspicion of spiffeh and the fact that turnstiling him would activate his pr is a nice plus.

ok but now fastforward to day3:

where is that suspicion of spiffeh

? why hasn't there been any followup on that read? like that's why they picked spiffeh from that timeline,right? sooooo what happened to doing anything about it now that he's here?

if we look at this whole spiffeh/super bowl thing, what did we actually get out of it? activating some prs of either aligment, who are now both suspicious in their respective threads. this isn't inherently +town, given that we dont' know what either of their alignments are, and could have been +scum if either of them were scum, since their role got activated. cabd acted like it was obvious this was a good thing, but just, why?

like cabd is supposed to be good at mechanics and stuff, right? why, after all of these machinations, has none of these appreciably helped town in any way? we spent two days on a dumb 'clearing the forward timeline of scum plan' that he had to have known wouldn't work, it was painfully obvious. like he's too good at this to keep putting all this energy into things that just aren't doing anything helpful for town. like *where is the +town output*? i'm not expecting xenoblade level of solving but i have a very hard time seeing how his actions have been, you now, helpful? like even today the gamestate is stupidly muddled and i feel like if there weren't scum mucking about we would have flipped a scum, actually intelligently inverted people, or have a better inkling as to where scum is today. and we just don't have any of it. despite having a chock-load of prs, we don't even have any mechanically useful results.
the fact that we're in this state (no flipped scum, no mechanical results, and nothing concrete to act on today despite like 8 townflips) i'm p sure doesn't happen naturally, i feel like there has to be scum involved in manipulating things for things to be this wacked up. your slot and his slot have been a sort of stranglehold and have been collectively directing things in a certain way. like i could tell something ~fucky~ was happening with you two, because otherwise we wouldnt be here now, but i didn't know where or what. now that i know his role, i'm p sure this is what's happening - he used the purple room n1 to gain your trust and between the two of you you're directing us in unhelpful ways. him purposfully, your slot is pockted. i don't remember offhand who was the driving factor for determining who would got to the purple room n1, but i would be good money that if i were to go back now and take a look, i would see that it was him, planning on utilizing his role that night.

like we keep spending stupid amounts of time on things that are silly? i'm not that great at mechanics but i know the things that we're doing mechanically are dumb. he has to know it too.

if this doesn't adequately explain what i'm thinking lmk and i shall try to elaborate.
(like i see a lot of these gamestate things in my head but they're sometimes hard to explain. i'm like p confident i'm right here tho and i want to make sure i do my best to explain what i'm seeing. if this is confusing or doesn't make sense please let me know because i want to make it very clear; this is very important)

[skitter30]

what does that mean

look at wall above. i'm p sure it's being used by scum for nefarious reasons and i don't want much to do with it and don't want to help it along

[skitter30]

and if you had killed me you would be saying the same thing about pisskop today

it's really amazing how many times this town wants to do the same thing over and over and is surprised by the shitty results

we're not even playing mafia at this point.

any interest in voting dandelion?

[skitter30]

Cabd said that their role is almost exactly what Flavor Leaf's role in in Xenoblade 2 in the first few hours of the game thread being open.

That info was in this thread available to anyone who played the Xenoblade game: Me, Firebringer, petapan, LLD, Notsci, Bell, Brian Skies, midway bear, Dunnstral, Noraa, Gamma (not checking the player list so I may have missed someone.)

ya i wasn't in that game so not helpful

[skitter30]

(1) The scum are pretty comfortable and in control of the thread so they are making nightkills that keep the game state static.

oh right this point too, i forgot to add this onto my wall: i'm p sure that dandelion is the scum in the townreads
it took a while to get there but i'm p confident

[skitter30]

the purple room keeps being put to use in ways that just isn't helping town? the obvious egregious example is spiffeh + superbowl. at the start of day2 cabd came in and was like 'we did something mysterious that is going to help town loads! we need to purple room superbowl and spiffeh' and it eventually unfolded that this was because there was a Super Secret Turnstile in the purple room and they would get to turnstile. i don't remember offhand the reasoning they gave for superbowl (strong pr?) and the reasonign for spiffeh iirc was 'imperium wasn't townrading them that strongly and we wanted to make sure we helped clear the forward thread if possible'. so that would imply that they had some suspicion of spiffeh and the fact that turnstiling him would activate his pr is a nice plus.

my understanding was, they both wanted to be turnstiled, so we could turnstile them, hooray. i was admittedly not paying the most attention ever. i don't know that i see what is so heinously mechanically incorrect about this but i haven't finished reading your post
-ceph

i very, very, very distinctly remember either your slot or deacon justifying sending spiffeh over because they were a lower tier townread and they thougth it would help with the 'clearing the forward thread of scum' thing. i will quote the post momentarily

and it's nto that it's mechanically incorrect, per se, so much as it hasn't actually helped town in any apprciable way. if you disagree with my assessment i would like you to explain how you think it helped.
before you tell me 'we activated prs', i will point out that both said people are actively scumread in their respective threads so who's to say that either of them are town.

[skitter30]

The scum are pretty comfortable and in control of the thread so they are making nightkills that keep the game state static.

N.E.E.D. N.A.M.E.S

cabd

[skitter30]

like cabd is supposed to be good at mechanics and stuff, right? why, after all of these machinations, has none of these appreciably helped town in any way? we spent two days on a dumb 'clearing the forward timeline of scum plan' that he had to have known wouldn't work, it was painfully obvious. like he's too good at this to keep putting all this energy into things that just aren't doing anything helpful for town.

i don't recall cabd being a particularly major proponent of that plan, and i'm sure i must have called it a fool's errand at least once
-ceph

my point is that he didn't object and i'm p confident he should know better
i don't remember if he was particularly for it but i'm very confident he wasn't against it

[skitter30]

going on a righteous crusade to get dandelion flipped at some point
not necessarily today but it is my new goal to ensure that this happens before the game ends

[skitter30]

Spiffeh will be sent to the Purple Room from the Forwards timestream.

superbowl9 will be sent to the Purple Room from the Inverted timestream.

PRESS THE BUTTON AND BEAM THIS SHIT OVER

They flip sides.

They both "hit the button" and swap.

I don’t get what hench is getting at

I don’t get why this is the plan either.

I feel like the rules specifically say BY THE END OF N2 which makes me think this turnstile applies

The best the six of us came to on Spiffeh was tier 3, maaaybe tier 2, so yeah, it's a potential final shot at clearing your thread.

We're sending you our strongest townread. Much as I'd like to be in a less chaotic thread, there is no role reason for deacon to change threads, even assuming the whole forwards thread is townreading us...which may not be the case. I haven't been paying attention to how people read us over there.

here we go. i couldn't find it dandelion's iso cuz deacon said it. but dandelion was obviously involved in this decision

[skitter30]

welp that was just meant to be that last post

[skitter30]

here we go. i couldn't find it dandelion's iso cuz deacon said it. but dandelion was obviously involved in this decision

i mean it clearly had utility if he's town (role activation) and if he's last scum (potential clearing of the thread)

i feel like that was made pretty clear in that post and i didn't even write it

-b

i'm p sure that at least one of {superbowl/spiffeh} are scum and got a nice pr activated
and agian, the followup of spiffeh potentially being scum never happeend with either of your slots, even tho he's being plenty scummy here
the amount of effort that went into getting those precise two slots turnstiled doesn't match what we got out of it

[skitter30]

and it's nto that it's mechanically incorrect, per se, so much as it hasn't actually helped town in any apprciable way.

then i feel like your attitude should've been

Spoiler:

and not the attitude you've had about the purple room

-b

idk what you're trying to say, sorry

[skitter30]

i mean i don't have the information to tell you if that helped town

or not but as a game i thought we had decided early on that needing to switch threads to use your role was possibly a towntell depending on how the initial setup worked (did scum get to choose who goes where? i feel like the mod answered this but i don't remember for sure)

i feel like in general activating PRs is a good idea, and it introduces some accountability for role usage if scum trueclaim
-ceph

ok, and again, we established that cabd is, like, good at this right? where are all the +town things he's been doing? like he's doing a lot of things, clearly. how are they helping town?

(i'm aware that your'e his hydra partner, but i am planning on belaboring this point)

[skitter30]

there's a good chance of that at this point because there are so fucking many of them and i have trouble imagining what scum could have to balance it unless some of them are liars or trueclaiming scum
-ceph

i would bet good money on your role

[skitter30]

i guess while i may have thought clearing one thread of scum was unlikely to work, i guess we might as well try? and the info that we didn't succeed is worth a little something?

it seems like your narrative doesn't add up to cabdscum. like,

is he the pied piper leading the town astray when all this has done is neither succeed nor cause damage

? what would you have liked to use all the turnstiles before that was so much better, besides turnstiling yourself?

it was never going to work tho, and i think he should have realized that.
and for the bolded, yes, except that i think it has caused damage because we've spent a stupid amount of time on wild goose chases

i don't know if we needed to go out of our way to turnstile sb9 and spiffeh that way

[skitter30]

i'm p sure that at least one of {superbowl/spiffeh} are scum and got a nice pr activated

This literally makes no sense given publicly stated info we have that scum placed themselves pregame. And the fact that you're using this as a reason to scum read people is like uhhhhhhhhh?

are you implying that literally no scum ever wants to get turnstiled because they chose to place themselves in the apropriate thread in pregame?

[skitter30]

, the followup of spiffeh potentially being scum never happeend with either of your slots, even tho he's being plenty scummy here

i mean neither of our slots have called him town here; i've engaged him a bit and he might be scum but he's not my #1 and he's not been exactly omnipresent yet

not sure what you expected to happen in the event his removal didn't prompt a "forwards thread is now a world where the only restaurant is taco bell and we have the three seashells" esp considering what ffery had to say about the read coming in

we turboelim him or what?

-b

uh for either of your slots to make some attempt to sort him? which as far as i remember didn't happen?

[skitter30]

ok *shrugs shoulders*

[skitter30]

I’m in this weird state where I both want to trust deacon but purge Cabd with fire. I don’t discount he might look just like Xeno, but with the gamestate as it is, with this core, we’re just so off base there HAS to be scum in the bloc. And I’m trying to work with deacon as they still are my strongest townread, and they’ve asked me to pump the brakes on it.

But no. Especially given the information on how his role works, I would very easily believe it’s a scum role. He chose to communicate with imperium and deacon, yes, but as I’ve said already I still firmly believe that Cabd would LOVE the opportunity to snow them and the continued opportunity to snow them via Dunn’s neighborhood. Wrt Dunn I’ve hated his pushes on bell and me but feel like he’s in an echo chamber so it’s understandable. I don’t think he’s scum for the pushes but they just don’t feel kosher?

I know deacon said bell was fanning my paranoia regarding the interaction but I don’t think scum bell would KNOW to fan my paranoia without being coached on that regarding them? And I still struggle to see scum in his day one play. I can maybe see the argument about his AtE and willingly sowing discord but I don’t feel like that even became a thing until the push on him, and I had the same reaction without him even being able to have any bearing on my alignment.

I even had those suspicions about you and super bowls swap that now skitter, who I’ve been toe to toe with all game, is echoing. It’s just all sorts of fucking weird.

I know you want a full case but I don’t have the time for it right now. It’s going off of my read of the gamestate

well, sorry that it took me so long to come around, as i agree with literally all fo this

[skitter30]

ok. if your slot (i.e. deacon blue) is set on this i'm really not gonna fight you two abt it much more than this.
at one point in my mafia career, i cared very much about putting up more of a fight but i don't care as much anymore.

i would ask that if this ultimately goes to a flip, that you rethink your hard townread on dandelion post my flip - it'll be lylo (or mylo at the very least depending on how the other thread goes). it'll probably be close to impossible to do anything at that point, but expecting you to actually rethink the read prior to that is probably too much of an ask, but i'm hoping in lylo you reassess, i feel like i need to at least make some attempt at pointing you in the right direction.

and rethink the whole circlejerk think in the future, cuz i think that no matter what the alignments of your slot and dandelion, it actively screwed over this game from a town perspective and it had a very obvious and noticeable negative affect on this game. this may only be obvious to you after the game ends, but it's dead obvious to me now, and i can write a list of like five or six reasons for how this screwed with things. and once again, the fact that i'm being earnest here may only be obvious later, but there are multiple other people who feel the same way, so i'm hoping that you can take this into consideration in future. and putting aside the efficacy of how much it helps town and whatever, it also just makes it just plain unfun to play with you.

bork i absolutely will come back and pull the 'i told you so' thing if i'm right here, just fair warning.

[skitter30]

Okay, Bork. I still think it’s overall weird skitter somehow got to the same conclusion as me despite how adamant she was about me.

i literally had no idea you came to this conclusion lol

[skitter30]

i get weird on it is when the hood play starts to take the place of the thread play during the day, but I'm largely attributing that as "this place exists as a haven" thing; even took me a while to realize that wasn't particularly healthy for the game (if this were a masonry, i'd feel differently and tell y'all to fuck off when you want us to be more direct about shit)

oh ffs and when i complain abt it i'm being unreasonable ...

[skitter30]

you (collective you) have been giving me shit for saying that for like two weeks now?
and that's literally what i've been going on and on and on about all night. the fact that it's annoying af that most of your solving is not here, it's taking place in the hood.
you recognize it's not healthy for the game. i've been vocalizing that for a very very very long time
and at the same time you object to the fact that i dont' like that you're not solving here.

like ...
you're recognizing the issue. it's the same issue that i pointed out, that in this thread your two slots are not really solving, but that you have been together in the hood.
yet you've been fighting with me abt saying this for the last 5 hours like ffs

[skitter30]

k

[skitter30]

ffery i'm like reasonably confident you have said to me recently that cabd would relish the challenge to try to snow you. i have no idea how he relates to imperium etc but this is my impression of him

bork sure, but i'm gonna sign off shortly. what do you want to talk abt ?

[skitter30]

eh actually very shortly but if you wanna pick it up tomorrow i'm happy to do that

pedit yeah it mostly boils down to not being towny here + basically no reason for scumreading peta despite insisting he's scum. i don't have much more in depth than that, i wasn't following the other thread that closely. + expecting people to townread him when he's done little to actually warrant them, and going off in a huff when that's not happening. oh also his a50 read is weak and kinda lazy

[skitter30]

pedit yeah it mostly boils down to not being towny here + basically no reason for scumreading peta despite insisting he's scum. i don't have much more in depth than that, i wasn't following the other thread that closely. + expecting people to townread him when he's done little to actually warrant them, and going off in a huff when that's not happening. oh also his a50 read is weak and kinda lazy

basically boils down to this bork. you want more than this?

[skitter30]

ffery i'm p sure you told me this like recently ... ?
and that he'd want to snow you?
putting aside the issue of whehter or not *he can*, you're currently making the argument that he wouldn't even try, but i'm under the impression from you + other people in said cohor that he would definitely enjoy the challenge and would wnat to make the attempt

ok really bouncing now, g'night

[skitter30]

and the first time one of them flips town, I'll vote myself and we can kill me.

this is functionally meaningless wrt you having any stake in this bet, because you're going to ultimately back out of this as either alignment. which makes this stupidly performative and manipulative because it looks decent and real at first glance, but if anybody thinks abt this for more than two seconds it should be apparent that she won't (and can't) actually follow up on this, even if she's town

also aside, i just wanna call out that i think the narrative that you and cabd have pushed that gamma died protecting you is unlikely bordering on ridiculous in the gamestate at eod yesterday (long sidebar showing that i'm p damn accurate making these sorts of assessments that i'm sure nobody cares abt reading, blah blah blah)

pedit peta it literally loses the game if she's town and wrong. hence stupidly performative and manipulative ...

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: lld

[skitter30]

LLd wants me there
LLd will presumably claim their role to me there

I can relay communication between the hood and purple room if needed, or not

I don't think this is unreasonable, I don't see how these other hoods would help us, no offense

no offense, but this is also really silly and pointless:
- no reason to add complexity to this game vis-a-vis more hoods
- like 2/3 of the game have claimed at this point, and we hsould just round it out. sending LLD to the purple room just to claim there accomplishes what exactly? no reason not to just finish massclaim at this point

[skitter30]

Skitter your purple room stuff and talking about Dandelion Wine's role stuff both look really scummy

dunn, i have run out of fucks to give, so i don't really care.
either there's scum in dandelion/deacon, or the pair is functionally acting like the 7th and 8th members of the scumteam given how the game has unfolded to this point. this is unpopular take, but true.
if there's scum it's dandelion because the role is literally a scum role

[skitter30]

hence me running out of fucks to give, but i had to call it out to point out that she's not actually going to let that go through.
this game is basically at a wash and i don't think winnable because the people who have the most sway are either scum or (still) blindingly wrong and aren't interested in re-assessing things.

[skitter30]

you're right that it's performative and manipulative and yet sadly i have seen town do that exact thing. not that i'm assuming she is

note that i'm not inherently calling her scum for it! it's just manipulative as either alignment

[skitter30]

ehhhhhh the thoguht has crossed my mind but i don't think i would go *that* far. one of the two is because, no offense, i don't think they're this offbase without scum manipulation

also despite ffery, bork is still very, very, very town and they're the same slot so like
currently i think cabd + lld but eh.

[skitter30]

i mean it might be better if you didn't do that

[skitter30]

inb4 she says: we're scum for ths interaction!!11!!!

[skitter30]

Tbf i actually dont have much of an issue with *your* play in particular. The confluence of how your slot has interacted with cabd's is the problem

And i also feel like i've tried shaking you (collectively) out of it a whole bunch but here we are so that clearly hasnt worked

[skitter30]

Like you (bork) are the reason why i think your slot is the town in that pairing

[skitter30]

Ok. I will try to elaborate again (i.e. if at length, after work). I feel like i've explained what i'm thinking, and there's definitely more to it than 'setup spec' but if you're perceiving that as the crux of what i'm saying, i'm miscommunicating p badly, because there is more to it than that.

And it's important to me that you underatand where i'm coming from (even if it takes my flip for that to happen), so i am happy to elaborate it, in as many ways as i need to, until you at least understand what i'm seeing, even if you dont agree with it

I'm not trying to tilt you, and i apologize if u feel that way, cuz that's not what i'm trying to do. On my end i feel like i'm shouting into the void, have been for a very long time, and its not going anywhere or accomplishing anything, so at some point i just feel like you're not listening to anything that i'm saying, which is partially why i'm writing off what you're doing as not really helping much (or scum. But i think town for you)

I will walk through the cabd thing again, but like after work lol

[skitter30]

And you're acting like using anything discussed in the hood as a basis for my read is like a huge fucking taboo.
But it's hard for me to get to "I don't agree about your setup spec" => "I'm obviously snowed and basically honorary scum".

Like i havent actually been saying either of these, and if you think i am, there's a distinct level of miscommunication happening, that i want to try to correct

[skitter30]

I agree that such an agreement is basically meaningless and probably won't be adhered to, but people do it all the damn time. It annoys me, but this is hardly a new idea or a scummy one.

LLD has said she thinks gamma might have died protecting her but also actively stated she doesn't really expect anyone to agree or care about this, and i think deacon was the one who suggested he might have saved deacon or us?

I know. I explicitly said that i wasnt scumreading her for it, but that i am calling it out as being manipulative

For your second point, cabd explicitly echoed that thought, that gamma protected lld and that's how he died. I found that very unlikely

Also i dont generally dislike hoods, but in this game i think they're ultimately being utlized in an anti-town fashion, and that more will exacerbate that

[skitter30]

you realize that i strongly protested the pk compromise and that you're the one who suggested the super scummy ss bonus kill that i objected to, right?

[skitter30]

no, it just makes me right
and i'm pointing out that you're understanding of the gamestate is flawed at best
(and i'm suggesting that you pushing for the ss flip was scummy as well)

[skitter30]

Oh speaking of hypocracy skitter

haven't you been calling me town basically all day today

and then recently you voted me while also calling me town for how I bet my life?

Why did you vote me if you're calling me town for that "manipulation"?

i have not actually!
i wasn't calling you town for the manipulation either. i was explicitly calling the bet nai but manipulative

(sorry i'm still like doing a few things for work so i'm not really here atm)

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

being annoyed that i think we're flipping three town today

aside if ss is town lld's scum equity goes up by a considerable margin for me

i'm like operating under the assumption that scum try to grab a free miselim on town!ss if possible (hence why if ss is town lld is scummy)

VOTE: annie edison
VOTE: hp

UNVOTE: fire
UNVOTE: lld

I think there's at least 2 scum in these 4 players, i would be quite shocked if there were fewer than 2.

I dont think we should be viewing this as a combo of two 7p and 10p games, but rather view it as 6 scum against 11 town across.two threads, as we dont really have any way of knowing how many are in each at this point

UNVOTE: turnstile myself

I want to be turnstiled today
I can also be convinced fairly easily to vote spiffeh, i think

Pedit plz no more bad setup spec arguments, we wasted waaaaaaaaaaay too much time on those

You think lld is the one pushing this the hardest?

he's on it ... if he's town it shouldn't be stalling at e-2 with himself on it

pedit not necessarily but she's the one who came up with the idea in the first place. if he's scum she's probably town but if he's town she could well be scum. i.e. they're never partners and if he's town she's trying to get the misflip. it's possible they're tvt but i think tvs is actually rather more likely

i'm kinda thinking aloud pardon my rambling

I think there's a decent chance scum!lld brought up the whole idea to turnstile town!ss to get the free misflip

Lld's p clearly setting up a mechanical based push on me @deacon. Couple of days late, but meh pedit fire is getting in on it too. But hey i'm already scumreading both anyways so not super surprising

Lld i would be *shocked* if you were the kill kast night, and i think that's a rather unnatural thought for you to have, that you might have been the nk

Also i'm aware that there's town motivation for someone to suggest that we should ship ss over. Still feels like something that is overwhelmingly more likely to come from scum than town. I'm aware that you think this is wishy washy, but i dont know how to explain it better rn

right, totally caught in a lie, i agree

[skitter30]

k

[skitter30]

right that other game recetnly where nobody listened to me for a month
fun times all

[skitter30]

dude your first paragraph is a better phrasing of what i've been trying to say so

[skitter30]

felt like we were held hostage unaccountably to a plan that really amounted to not much and said little.

like this basically. if it actually amounted to something i wouldn't care as much but it, well, hasn't. and i feel like wiht all of those great minds (TM) working on this together, things should have come of it if all involved were town, but it hasn't, so it makes me feel like things are being scum-manipulated in some way

[skitter30]

so like, if you want me to get on your side, pitch me a worldview, try to give me something that makes sense. convince me. maybe i'm horribly wrong and just writing something off way too easily. but if you disagree i wanna know why

and the "why's" for saying much that's coming out of that hood is what's missing ...

[skitter30]

P sure if they send skitter over I just die lol

tbf i'm not actually sure i would do that anymore, i'd probably campaign for bell

[skitter30]

if that's a response to me i have no idea what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

why would a50 agree to move?

apparently not needed if they send someone over first?

also i'm not actually sure this is the case?
in fact i'm p sure it isn't

[skitter30]

we can only do that if one would move over. would skitter even agree knowing she would get yeeted doing so? i don't think so

She'd be in the same thread with her arch scumread(s) and in the timestream where if she IS a town watcher, she could use the ability tonight if she gets more traction there than she has here.

also, repeated: man if only we had sent me over day1 instead of a tracker receiver but ya know

[skitter30]

sending annie is dumb
this is *me* saying that, so you know this is a really dumb idea

[skitter30]

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

no offense but you're ridiculously tunneled

[skitter30]

sending annie is dumb
this is *me* saying that, so you know this is a really dumb idea

stfu

i'm so done with people fucking telling me "oh this is dumb that is dumb let's play mechanically" fuck you fuck your superiority fuck your "this is me saying that"

eat a fuckign brick

i'm saying that i've been trying get him limmed for three days (although tbf i have changed my mind recently) ...
and i'm saying that mechanically getting him over here is such a pointless endeavor that i wouldn't even support it despite the fact that i've been wanting to be in the same thread as him for a while

[skitter30]

lld i know what hte word means. i don't care to interact with your push that much, and i don't believe i've called anyone else tunneled in quite a while

[skitter30]

oh i didn't realize that that's what you were getting at
i would prefer to be turnstiled tho

[skitter30]

look i will honestly turnstyle skitter rn if they agree so i don't have to listen to them anymore.

for actual real

sure let's do it

[skitter30]

well if you were waffling that was not at all clear ...

if i vote myself to be turnstiled is everyone gonna be annoyed with me?
like i very much want to

[skitter30]

i mean if that's a waffle that is not at all clear to me
to me that sounds like you're scumreading me and don't know who my partners could/would be but that line of thought isn't particularly holding you back
like if i misinterpreted that, fine, but that's how it came across to me

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: turnstile myself

[skitter30]

that's supposed to be understood as a waffle?

[skitter30]

ok i'll drop it because i'm sure this is annoying everyone involved

[skitter30]

actually p good! i'm having a great day!
how was work today?

[skitter30]

ffery i can go on for a while abt how i feel abt that, most of which has already been said so you probably don't want me to say it all again
but like if you're deliberately attempting to word things in a way so that it doesn't look particular ambiguous like i'm sorry i took it at face-value and didn't realize that there were layers behind the wording of that post?

[skitter30]

actually p good! i'm having a great day!
how was work today?

Another bad day. But its good to hear u had a good day!
Also my day has improved just by talking to u

thanks
i'm sorry that today wasn't so good, hopefully tomorrow will be better! and there's always the weekend to look forward too!

[skitter30]

lld i'm p sure you just turnstiled me

[skitter30]

that was either hammer or e-1

[skitter30]

it was 3 in the last vc + fire + me + you

[skitter30]

LLD is like naked scum how the fuck has anyone at any point townread any of this fucking shit

my dude i've been saying that for a while
but this thread is no longer my problem, whooo

[skitter30]

i'm p sure she didn't realize she was hammering it
but i agree with the sentiment that it doesnt' make sense for her to want to turnstile me altogether

[skitter30]

Hp i agree with ur assessment

Pedit fire <3

[skitter30]

Lld you had like 5.5 votes on me (your whip count was slightly off, and i'm not *quite* sure you had the votes but it was p damn close), and you chose to send me to the other thread where you'll have sizeable less influence wrt this and where there's a p good chance i'll be able to talk my way out of it (no matter my alignment)

[skitter30]

well if the motivation is to clear this thread of town that switch makes sense, no?
like if your'e trying to kill me cuz you think i'm scum turnstiling me actively went against that goal

[skitter30]

i think you didn't realize it was hammer, i said this already
and i'm saying that it doesn't make sense from a town perspective
i don't know what you think you were gaining out of it

and i'm not saying that you're some kind of moron, and never would, so i don't particularly appreciate that you phrased that that way

[skitter30]

lld i really don't care to have this argument with you. if i wanted to i could, but i just don't care enough

[skitter30]

is there anything i can say right now that's going to change yoru mind?
serious question

[skitter30]

this is the type of shit where in post-game people are going to be like "omg goodfellas nom ez" when 90% of this game is town eating itself alive in one thread and just naked open wolfing in the other with the game getting totally fucked because town misplayed an extremely complex setup in the first two days

yep

pedit yep and that's why i'm exasperated. you're like driving yourselves off a cliff, i'm watching it happen, telling you it's hapepning in real time, and getting nowhere

[skitter30]

ok sure, let's try that. i'm down for that.
what do you want to talk abt?

[skitter30]

tbf i'm p sure i was at work at the time iirc and said that i wasn't really around
and then shit blew up at work like right then and i wasn't paying attention for a bit

peta is town because i see that he's actually solving, and he's probably on the closest wavelength to me out of everyone in the whole game, which indicates that he's approaching things from a +town perspective. i follow his thought processes, and he's just clearly and consistently attempting to reevaluate and figure out where he's going wrong. in this mess of a game, he's trying to do soemthing abt it and to change things.

i think you're scum because you're consistently taking +scum stances and the worldviews that you're pushing seem increasingly unlikely to me

[skitter30]

which argument was i not defending there?

i retract the lld/fire thing. at the time you looked partner-y, but since then, you've had several interactions that make me retract that + i now indepednantly townread fire.

what part of that do you think is empty? like i'm happy to elaborate but if you just brush off everything i'm saying as empty it makes me not want to engage.
i still strongly, strongly, strongly believe scum would have tried to pick up the ss miselim if it presented itself in that gamestate, so yes i think it's scummy that you suggested it

pedit not really, no. the fact that he's agreeing with me isn't inherently what i find +town. it's the fact that *it's very obvious to me that he's approaching the game from a town perspective* and that he's trying to solve (ex: sb9 case, spiffeh case, trying to utilize those to get some positive momentum going). the fact that he agrees with me is a bonus, and not the crux of it

my townread on him is stronger than my scumread on you, but i have a hard time understanding your approach here.
like, for example, this turnstile thing - if you're town who's scumreading me, turnstiling me actively makes it harder to lim me, so i don't understand why you'd do that

[skitter30]

P sure if they send skitter over I just die lol

tbf i'm not actually sure i would do that anymore, i'd probably campaign for bell

considering what the scummy-ass townbloc is trying to foist on bell i wouldn't

ok who do you think should be limmed there?

[skitter30]

which argument was i not defending there?

i retract the lld/fire thing. at the time you looked partner-y, but since then, you've had several interactions that make me retract that + i now indepednantly townread fire.

what part of that do you think is empty? like i'm happy to elaborate but if you just brush off everything i'm saying as empty it makes me not want to engage.
i still strongly, strongly, strongly believe scum would have tried to pick up the ss miselim if it presented itself in that gamestate, so yes i think it's scummy that you suggested it

pedit not really, no. the fact that he's agreeing with me isn't inherently what i find +town. it's the fact that *it's very obvious to me that he's approaching the game from a town perspective* and that he's trying to solve (ex: sb9 case, spiffeh case, trying to utilize those to get some positive momentum going). the fact that he agrees with me is a bonus, and not the crux of it

my townread on him is stronger than my scumread on you, but i have a hard time understanding your approach here.
like, for example, this turnstile thing - if you're town who's scumreading me, turnstiling me actively makes it harder to lim me, so i don't understand why you'd do that

SS elimination was pro-town because it didn't change the numbers. If we eliminate 2 town today and scum shoot 2 town we still go to LYLO instead of MYLO.

so worst case scenario we don't lose a single vote.

so it was free if you scumread SS, which most of us did.

So I don't get why that is something scum would push more than town who was wrong at greater frequency. Your read there based solely on that is empty because it hits literally everyone who agreed ot do it.

Why I turnstyled you while thinking you are scum: I have other scumreads in this thread. I was offered a deal where you and A50 both die. I am willing to do that to move the game along and not have to deal with another week of my head hurting wrt this game.

so I'm willing to just agree to kill A50 or Peta instead of you and move you over, and if they don't kill you it's not my fucking problem, they didn't do what they said they'd do, I'm still only in control of one elimination and I have 3 targets in this thread who I all think are scum.

If I'm that target rich, why not push smoeone who agrees (the only kind of person I can push apparently) into the other thread ot increase chances 2 scum die today

that's just better +EV for town?

ok a few things:

- i think that viewing things from the perspective of losing votes is very scum-indicative. i'm p sure scum are hyper aware of how many votes they have in each thread, and it's not really something that townies are using to viewing the game (as evidenced by the fact that this isn't really a topic of discussion much besides for like hp bringing it up a few times iirc)
- i understand that ultimately everyone scumread ss. bu ti'mnot sure that the turnstiling plan happens without you bringing it up, which is why i'm leaving some of the onus on you there. like of course everyone said they wanted it, that's how it happened. but scum i'm p sure wanted it very badly, and would have worked to actualize it, so we need to look at the people who are ultimately responsible for how it went down. like it's not really accurate to say that i'm scumreaidng everyone who wanted to kill ss. i'm scumreading people who actively worked to make that flip happen via turnstile
- said this already, but your deal is meaningless because if anyone flips town it's mylo/lylo so you're gonna back off real quick.
- maybe you just dont' fully understand/recognize this but the odds of me getting flipped are less in taht thread than in this one, which is why i'm viewing this as, like, not actually helping your goal. like it's by no means a set/agreed plan over there, and i think that the odds of that many people voting to flip me over there are not quite as high
- like i'm not arguing that it's inherently scum indicative for you to want to turnstile me, but i'm looking for the town motivation and i'm scratching my head

[skitter30]

hey skitter before you leave this thread i'm sorry for flying off the handle at you end of day 2, although i had issues with what you were doing i should have expressed them in a more constructive and less mean spirited way

it is ok i am sorry for frustrating you

[skitter30]

tbf i'm p sure i was at work at the time iirc and said that i wasn't really around
and then shit blew up at work like right then and i wasn't paying attention for a bit

peta is town because i see that he's actually solving, and he's probably on the closest wavelength to me out of everyone in the whole game, which indicates that he's approaching things from a +town perspective. i follow his thought processes, and he's just clearly and consistently attempting to reevaluate and figure out where he's going wrong. in this mess of a game, he's trying to do soemthing abt it and to change things.

i think you're scum because you're consistently taking +scum stances and the worldviews that you're pushing seem increasingly unlikely to me

this still just seems like a bullshit scum argument to me

there's no substance to it

-b

this is how i scumhunt. if i believe the person actually believes that they're saying and is pursuing a +town wincon, it's townie. if they're being inscrutable and i can't track their reads and it looks like they're pushing a scum agenda, it's scummy

[skitter30]

i dont know some respect to let them make their point and argue for he elim while they're in the same thread?

I was thinking this too. If the double D scumread skitter so much, why turnstile her?
Huh??

i mean they're not the ones who did it (at least i'm p sure) and it sounds like you're faking being obtuse rn

[skitter30]

?

[skitter30]

if skitter is getting turnstyled you may as well leave her up at this point till ELO and let her have to be accountable for some investigations

-b

i haven't 'all but claimed a PR', i literally claimed pr there
and yes that's a good idea
at this rate elo is like tomorrow but eh

[skitter30]

hey skitter before you leave this thread i'm sorry for flying off the handle at you end of day 2, although i had issues with what you were doing i should have expressed them in a more constructive and less mean spirited way

it is ok i am sorry for frustrating you

not your fault. really projection of my own irritation with the game. you're all right and i need to keep my emotions in check more

[skitter30]

skitter is most likely town and I will be pissed if this turnstile turns out to be a death sentence for her

i'm like waaaaaaay over that