Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[clidd]

I lost interest.

UNVOTE: Toogeloo

*Theory*

I don't think

{Fey, Sara, Olaf and Dk}

is a set 100% town, otherwise the game would be much more easier.

Dk

has been more towny recently and I believe that

Olaf

's metadive on me was in good faith/from an uninformed perspective trying to assess me.

Fey

seemed to have a hidden suspicion about Sherlock and the way she positioned herself before the night didn’t strike me as a scum partner.

What by PoE would denounce

Sara

as being the scum in this group.

[clidd]

It may seem like mental gymnastics, but that's what the gamestate tells me. I mean, such a strong town set would imply a winning PoE with ease and I have never seen this scenario in an entire year of mafia.

But, as I said, she is not a slot that I see myself voting for today. Her participation is still valid for reconsideration or consolidation of the impression.

[clidd]

Because we would have a strong town base and considering the combined competence of the group in terms of townhunting/scumhunting, the game would flow more easily to identify who is scum.

Having in mind the way opinions are occurring now, I don't think it's all about town arguing with town and having a hard time getting rid of scum while scum is coasting.

There is a well-positioned scum that is making things difficult and is not being pushed.

[clidd]

E

[clidd]

It's vague to say things like that, I know.

But my guess is that this scum is in the group I mentioned.

[clidd]

And as far as I can speculate, it is likely Sara, as I identify more reasons to think that the others are town than she.

It's not like she's scumposting, of course, she's towny, but looking towny doesn't always mean the player is town, which is why I think she can be a deepwolf.

[clidd]

Or maybe I'm distracting from a correct game solution.

I don't know.. I'm testing to see if something from the approach that I decided to adopt here bears any fruit.

[clidd]

i think its wild that u think that might be a "scumtell" though.

Hum.

[clidd]

Accidental quote.

[clidd]

I would be more energetic for the Toog wagon if it happened yesterday.

Not vibing rn.

[clidd]

@Pyro @Dunn

Idk, I'm not feeling the spark of impulse to vote on him atm.

Maybe that will change depending on what he posts.

[clidd]

What are you thinking for today then?

Sarah is the name in my head, but I’m waiting to see if something materializes about Toog.

I agree with the assumption that Fey suggested about having a bus in the wagon and being between Star/Sarah, with a greater potential to be Sarah.

[clidd]

And I sympathize with the questioning.

It's +town to Fey.

pedit: Sure,

VOTE: SaraharaS

[clidd]

clidd, hardclaim if you redirected last night.

[clidd]

I'm not a pr, Dk.

[clidd]

my report got redirected towards you clidd so choose carefully what to say next.

What does that mean?

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

Pb, do you think we are on the right track?

[clidd]

Ok, give me some minutes.

[clidd]

Saudade's departure is more likely to be town frustrated than scum frustrated imo. The way he dealt with me suspecting him so intensely is different from the scum!Saudade reaction. PB didn't do much after entering, but although I have no idea of ​​the scum!PB pattern of behavior, the towny impression I had of Saudade before he left the slot is strong enough for me to still consider the slot as town.

[clidd]

Gamma's departure, on the other hand, after rereading, did not seem so fluid/genuine to the point of reflecting as a frustrated town, but both town!Gamma and scum!Gamma have similar toxicity and overreactions, so I suppose it is not possible to conclude if his last sequence of posts are +town or +scum for him. By play, there was nothing expressively scummy or towny, his game was basic. Kid is generic towny, but with the PoE closing I don't think he is above other slots.

[clidd]

Fey had a position in relation to Sherlock and W/P mostly towny. Dunn presented an interestingly towny reasoning regarding the Toog push. Star saw me as town very early but it would be silly for scum!Pooky and scum!Kanna to do that, since they both know how my reasoning process works when I think someone should see me as town or scum given the way I imagine that my play must be interpreted by each player. Olaf presented a meta-dive to try to read me that reflected a lot as coming from an uninformed perspective, that is, town. Nora had a stubborn behavior that I classify as town!Nora, although Morning is not playing in such a towny way in the sense of interpreting the game, which I am used to seeing from town!Morning, but regardless, the impression remains.

[clidd]

I still think Sara fits well as a deepwolf and nothing she posted made me change my perspective.

[clidd]

By PoE, my solve would be Sara + Kid.

If I had to select someone that I might be wrong, however, by occam's razor, it would probably be Star comparatively. By overthink, it would be between Olaf/Pyro and Fey, who are probably playing a competent game and completely off the radar.

My voting priority is Sara, but I'm open to other opinions/reconsiderations. A 360 can occur if I feel that someone is scumposting. Not that my reads are so relevant, of course.

[clidd]

If I'm forgetting something mechanical that makes someone more likely to be town or not, don't forget to remind me, by the way.

[clidd]

Alright, let me take a look here.

[clidd]

@clidd, if you have examples of Gamma being unnecessarily toxic to the point where it turns conftown against him for no good reason, I'd like to see where from

That information is in the games I shared when I made the post about his meta. I don't feel so energetic to specify the points that led to my conclusion that toxicity is present in town&scum!Gamma, but if I didn't get a read on Kid, I will expand this observation to have a definite impression about the slot alignment.

[clidd]

Fey has never played like this as scum + if she is scum, that means they both possess the nightskipper and the dayvig (plus the bus driver and the role cop), which would be insanity.

I don't know who she is, unfortunately.

Regarding the mechanics, I was wondering if there was any chance of the nightskip ability to be from Titus and Fey to have some other undeclared ability, but the argument that the scumteam would have a lot of power is still valid, so yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you.

[clidd]

I'm not sure what to think about the

"Gamma would have to guess a role that can fit with another pr"

, but the slot is still low for me in terms of PoE.

There is a lot of mech talk, but I am not particularly a fan to enter the discussion. If Kid is somehow town and Star is vig, with Fey being town by mech, Dunn being towny by pov on Toog, Pb being towny by Saudade replacing out with good faith, then the only person left for Sara's partner is Pyro. But the impression I got about Olaf’s meta-dive about me tells me that the slot is town, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is easier for me to consider Kid as second scum by PoE.

[clidd]

Hum.. Sounds good.

Although I would be surprised if scum!Dunn was able to see the scummy way in which Toog was operating in the same period of time as me. Not that it would be difficult for my read to be wrong if you're correct on Pyro, of course, but that specific event created such a positive impression on me.

[clidd]

Anyways, we can think about Kid tomorrow, after a Sara scumflip.

[clidd]

Cool, so Sara is in fact scum.

I would appreciate more votes on her, thanks.

[clidd]

pinkball is town because of his predecessor doing a trust tell level rep out

Actually, Saudade's departure and conduct before leaving had a toxic towny index, but it did not reach the point of trust tell.

Your interpretation is different because you are starting from a scum mentality and evidently irritated by the fact that we are using reasons that you seem as unfair to townread a slot correctly.

It is somewhat similar to Ahsoka's frustration in our past game, as she was being scumread for reasons that she judged to be unfair/wrong.

[clidd]

Your one-sided focus on the communicative dynamic between me and Sherlock was formulated in bad faith and your interpretation is purposefully poor to fit the scum!Clidd theory, whose you have to push to miseliminate and try to buy at least one more day.

It's basically the only course of action you can take in the current scenario, as Morning and Fey are suspicious about me.

[clidd]

Quite predictable, but I respect it. You have to try.

The point is whether you will get your day or not. I'm not committed to sustaining a 1v1, but I believe it shouldn't be difficult to see that you are scum here.

[clidd]

6209, 6210, 6211 are directed to Sara, btw.

[clidd]

Is have this in mind rn:

{Star} {Fey} {Pink Ball}
{Morning}
{Dunnstral}
{Pyro}

-

{Kid}
{SaraharaS}

[clidd]

Kid is not a slot that is in the scumpool for doing something scummy, but he is a weaker slot compared to the others above, which causes him to be downgraded.

Dunn is more towny than Pyro in my view due to the feeling I had when I saw the reasoning of his push on Toog, evidently stronger than Olaf's meta-dive on me.

[clidd]

It is not exactly an integral assessment of both (Dunn/Pyro) considering everything on their isos, but a focus on specific points where I think they most likely came from a town mentality.

[clidd]

Sara is e-2. Me, Dunn and Pyro voting.

[clidd]

Pb, I recognize that I have had a very poor performance here, to the point of looking scummy. It was not purposeful, although my alternative approach was conscious. I will use the experience to evolve and learn from my mistakes post-game.

[clidd]

Sara is e-2. Me, Dunn and Pyro voting.

Can you please unvote for now? Or someone? Thanks, I don’t want to rush this.

VOTE: KidAmn

Associatives with Gamma are through the roof but

STILL DON’T WANT To RUSH THIS.

[clidd]

If Sara was town, she would treat my fos on her differently and interpret my interaction with Sherlock with more evaluative impartiality.

[clidd]

Apparently my mind had already voted for Sara, although my body had not.

VOTE: SaraharaS

[clidd]

is this guy just scum

Scum or a very
very
very
delusional player

cliddd is town
But gamma and italiano are sus

I don't think that this sequence of reasoning was coming from a scum mentality.

For me Saudade is a town that was suffering a tunnel (mine), and managed to reconsider the player that was pushing him.

[clidd]

Not saying that Saudade wouldn't be able to emulate this, but reconsiderations are usually more difficult for scum to express, as their reads are false.

[clidd]

Pb, I recognize that I have had a very poor performance here, to the point of looking scummy. It was not purposeful, although my alternative approach was conscious. I will use the experience to evolve and learn from my mistakes post-game.

If you don't get eliminated and catch the remaining scum no one will remember your first pushes!

Well, I hope to be able to do that lol.

I do think that Sara is scum, but I'm not sure about the partner.

[clidd]

Decent posts, Kid.

But nothing so extraordinary to the point of

"wow, this can only be coming from a town mentality/perspective"

[clidd]

Nothing changed to me.

[clidd]

Sara still reflects me intensely as scum.

Even the current posts with "hey, sheep me" don't seem like genuine thoughts.

[clidd]

It's fine if it's your style, but the comical appeal you're constantly making in your posts seems to be an attempt to evade a possible cognitive load. In the sense that it would be easier for you to say things that you don't believe/know are not true without being nervous or letting out some information that only your perspective has access to.

[clidd]

Not saying that is the case, of course, but it is my impression of the tone you are using in your analysis.

[clidd]

I mean, I didn't do any research to contextualize myself about what is AI in your personality.

But if that is a pattern, you can disregard the observation I made.

[clidd]

Although I think it's very easy for you to lie with the style you are using.

[clidd]

Why is Sara not dead yet?

[clidd]

My current PoE is you/KidAmn/Clidd. I have stronger reasons to be tr everyone else and as long as both scums are in that PoE, we win.

So fypov, do you agree with this? Minus you obviously.

as i said earlier, yes. this either gets both scum, or there's a deepwolf that gets POE'd out from flips/power roles... but there's enough votes for all of that. if i had a smaller poe then i'd be a lot more irritated with a push on me here

I hard TR over half of the game without counting myself so this isn't game losing, it's just dumb. if you want to vote me then sheep me afterwards

6350 was of course saying sheep me on Kidam/Clidd. if you're agreeing with that then i don't mind what else you do really

That isn't something that town!you would think, Hopkirk.

[clidd]

Is have this in mind rn:

{Star} {Fey} {Pink Ball}
{Morning}
{Dunnstral}
{Pyro}

-

{Kid}
{SaraharaS}

Is this still your current solve?

Yes, I didn't see anything expressive to change it.

Maybe Kid is not as evident as a second, I still have to evaluate, but as the main scum I'm 90% sure on Sara.

[clidd]

It doesn't bother me if the elimination is on W/P today, although I won't be part of the wagon.

@Clidd, why did you say this?

Because I didn’t sympathize with the scumread on the slot and consequently wouldn’t be part of the wagon.

My attitude was basically the same in relation to the elimination of BM and Italiano, two slots that I also saw as town, although W/P has been shown to be scum.

[clidd]

You already have a correct read about Sherlock trying to get rid of me. Not sure what you're looking for.

Kid would not be ideal, but it is also not a bad elimination.

[clidd]

Ok, is there any other topic to be discussed today?

Everyone seems to be in the same page, at least for now.

[clidd]

Of course not.

You're on the right track, don't worry.

[clidd]

Moreover, I half expect Sara to townread clidd based off of some similarities between this game and One Night Stand. This push by Sarah is just really mechanical and it's cause she has nowhere to go, I think.

—Alice

This is also one of the reasons for me to think that she's scum. I'm identical compared to when Ahsoka tried to push me there. Sara wouldn't forget that.

[clidd]

KidAmn's solving looked towny so the "this isn't anything that's unfakeable" and "your writing style makes it easy for you lie" does scare me.

@Kid

His posts did not convince me. It's possible for scum!Kid imo, if any, to have made that.

[clidd]

But this is something that I'll think about later

[clidd]

Correction: 6461 was directed to Pyro, not Kid.

[clidd]

Good analysis, Pyro.

[clidd]

Maybe Nancy wants to say something before we end the day.

[clidd]

There will be more talk the next day, you will not be eliminated immediately, Kid.

[clidd]

There will be more talk the next day, you will not be eliminated immediately, Kid.

Actually, I take it back.

I wouldn't mind an immediate elimination tomorrow.

[clidd]

Get rid of the evil, PB.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Yep, I got it.

"Macho Even-Night Vanilla Cop" is the code.

[clidd]

Hi kid.

VOTE: KidAmn

Goodbye Kid.

[clidd]

Don't you think that Kid is the last scum, Pb?

[clidd]

Yep, I got it.

"Macho Even-Night Vanilla Cop" is the code.

It might be evident, but that was in relation to the message I received from Morning, btw ^

[clidd]

Don't you think that Kid is the last scum, Pb?

I do, but if the game's not over after that we need a plan in case we lose our conftown players

Fair, but the selfvote seems a scumclaim in my eyes.

I mean, we got a scumflip and he's like "omg, people are being unfair to me". His morale is low for no reason.

But I suppose it's only a matter of time before he concedes or I get elim today and he caught tomorrow.

[clidd]

In other words, i guess actually playing the game to determine scum is required.

Yes. One of my rules was no loyal/disloyal, no cops/gunsmiths (hence the fake), no PT cops. You aren't going to generate enough clears to autowin.

We play to the last man standing, no matter how exhausted and stressed I am, I'm going to fight. No concessions.

Hum.

[clidd]

Well, my opinion about Kid has not changed. I don't get it why he would be frustrated with how Nancy and others are treating his slot, especially since town is at an advantage and, theoretically, with decent/high levels of morale. We are not under pressure to decide everything correctly today imo.

[clidd]

If I had to draw a parallel between him and me, I was also/am in a very similar situation in the sense of being a practically universal suspect, but this did not at any time negatively influence my behavior, nor change my mood, so why would that happen exclusively with him? We are close to winning and there is only one scum left, so it's not like we're playing in a stressful atmosphere. Kid, on the other hand, chose not to see this and is selectively considering only what is pertinent to his slot and also trying to appeal to the emotional with suggestions of ''you need to reevaluate, you will see that I am right, think more'', rather than rationalizing who he thinks is most likely to be scum and advocating directly for the elimination of that person. His PoE is clearly vague and there is apathy on his part to take a stand.

[clidd]

Unlike 5suf, who demonstrated frustration as town in a different context, where town was not yet secured in a safe position, Kid is in a calm gamestate, with an intuitive pool to work with. There is no reason for him to feel that way.

[clidd]

If he only expressed a suspicion about me and filled it out with reasons that he thinks point to scum!Clidd (assuming town!Kid), I would be inclined to dialogue and reevaluate if I realized that the reasoning was starting from a mentality that I judge as towny. But the current instance of neglect does not allow any evaluations of the slot. So.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[clidd]

Ok, let me see another reason to fos Gamma.

[clidd]

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I got a feeling this is scum

Here, Italiano obviously wanted to look suspicious, at least that's the impression I remember when I saw the selfvote.

Gamma, on the other hand, automatically went under the impression that he would be scum, without considering that Italiano could be town wanting to show himself as a suspect.

From a neutral perspective, trying to assess what the selfvote could mean, it would take some time for any conclusions to be reached. But for a scum perspective that is looking for miselims, this is the kind of anti-town attitude that can be capitalized on.

[clidd]

VOTE: ItalianoVD

HIII!!!!

Hello.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

His buddy also sympathized with that.

[clidd]

Uh ok I think Toog is scum.
VOTE: Toog

well bats looks as townie as one can be in the opening stages of a game. excitement feels very genuine, looks like the beginning of a town-solvey mindset in 15 + 43, the info stuff and already tryna get out of RVS

marci wants to vote toog for having a funny name and i think his opening post is... weird, if not AI, so wynaut VOTE: toogeloo

-shadowslug

My entrance is also more or less identical to Pooky v Flava, the only other vs. game I've participated in.

true - and which is why I'll open with VOTE: toogeloo

Repeating the town-slip entrance which largely lock-towned Toogeloo in the last game, seems contrived. and I like the way the wagon picked up momentum quick.

VOTE: Battle Mage

VOTE: War and Peace

Nodding. Death.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I think you're jumping the gun here. Battle Mage is in some ways very like mastina; they're both loud, both confident, and both have ample opportunity to be wrong. For an early game read, I don't think Battle Mage's take is bad (though I agree it raises some eyebrows).
~Ircher

if it raises eyebrows then what's the harm in pyro voting BM here? ilike what actually is the point of this post?

-shadow

VOTE: War and Peace

VOTE: War and Peace

I feel super good after that little moment we just had. ^^

While town was focused on other places ^

[clidd]

Dunn, Morty and Fey are still nulls in my pov.

Sherlock has a chance of being scum, but I still need to see his opinion on the recent events.

These reads are traaaaash

Clidd’s posting on these pages looks rather weird
Like the sequences of words he’s using don’t make sense

As for why clidd, I feel like he has too many of my town reads in his lower tiers, and I also think his town block was TMI

And this sequence is basically Gamma trying to find a reason to suspect me, but failing.

Interestingly, the TMI assumption was something that Sherlock also expressed:

I would never accuse clidd of TMI, I'm open to better vig targets, when I say clidd I am saying "claimed VT" if that helps

not sure if I'm taking a wrong inference of your post there tho

-S

Which refer to this post:

BM, Nora, Italiano and W/P are likely town.

pedit: @Dun No, I mean that he's not saying what he truly thinks/knows. The point of view he is trying to show is posed.

I imagine that the intention, in addition to trying to formalize a suspicion on me, was to try to convey the idea that I would be tming W/P as town, since she was in my townpool, something that would make her social image supposedly better and buy time for her not to be eliminated, at least not before me (since I was a slot universally suspect).

[clidd]

I know that Sherlock says there ''I would never accuse clidd of TMI'', but he was drawing attention to the subject and kind of unconsciously suggesting it, if that makes sense.

[clidd]

Well, that's it.

Maybe something else will come to mind later. Still not seeing town!Gamma or town!Kid atm.

[clidd]

I still think KidAmn over clidd though

clidd, was it a conscious effort to change your playstyle after olaf made his case on you?

Not exactly, I'm still within the approach that I planned to adopt pre-game, but not so intensely, since it would be bad faith on my part considering that it's not possible to say if the lack of engagement is conscious or coming from scum.

[clidd]

And Kid, I'm acting in good faith here.

If you want to share what you think about the game, regardless of whether you suspect me or not, I'm open to listening.

Although I show some confidence, I'm not foolish to think that you are scum in 100% of cases. I can always reconsider if I see something that I hadn't noticed before.

[clidd]

Did we win??

Probably, unless he's town scumsiding.

[clidd]

hello, this is mitsuha here. i had a feeling we would die tonight, so i prepared this during the night for nancy to release in the morning.

anyway, i just did some digging and am now convinced pyro is the last scum.

1: he really was mason-hunting us the whole game. anyone who knows me/pooky/nancy knows we're all pretty fond of each other, so we were a suspect from the beginning. with our play, being suspicious we were scum or mason is *fine*, but this is really the type of thing town keeps to themselves. saying this is also what i think is him trying to be overly transparent, i.e: telling us this was indeed something he thought of, when, like i said, he really should've kept this to himself.

2: i don't really buy his scumread of us and saying we're "really scummy". like, actually why? saying we're really scummy means there's apparently a lot of scummy motivation in our posts, but this was never explained. his scumread basically comes down to thinking my posting was "fine" and pooky is not as active as he normally is, which, he doesn't even know is a scumtell. i do feel like he *should* feel decently i'm town, and he *should* feel more confident on that than his random pooky read, but in the case where i'm wrong, i would like to see his in-depth thought process on why we've been scummy enough for this read, and you all and nancy can read through it to see if it's convincing. cause my read right now is this is just an excuse to keep mason-fishing/fishing for nancy's reaction

3: he shouldn't be suspicious of clidd. like with me, pyro has a decent amount of experience with clidd and can tell when he's being obvtown -- and i absolutely think clidd is being obvtown. take for example this game, and look at how he appeals to clidd, correctly pinning him as town

Spoiler:

clidd is an angelread

EE you've seen me gimmick all the time
eg posting like i learnt English from a llama as Hoctac in that large game
and then i got killed N1 lol
or posting with anime reaction images as Hel
i could go on

you really think the change in style could be scum-indicative?
sorry ! this just gets to me soemtimes because some people like Titus scumread me in every game because they see a change in playstyle and associate that with me being scum
it's a sigh ?_?

Also, Clidd?

Clidd is an angel
mindmelded with his thoughts on Green Crayon's mechposts
and his tone is free and towny

really just ctrl+f clidd

in this game, look at how he gets townpings on him immediately, but then disregards it

Spoiler:

this is kinda ... what's the word? theatrical? performative? idk don't like it tho

Performative and overconfident clidd is town!clidd. Leaning town on him. I agree with Akarin being towny though.

Alright, so mechanically speaking, it's always wrong to launch KidAmn today. If he's scum, he's always guiltied tomorrow (so please save us some time and concede if that's the case).

Well what do you propose instead? I would prefer to not start limming from my townblock yet.

Hm hm hm, it's tough. clidd, Pink Ball, Dunny.

clidd had a rough start imo but he's looked townier and townier recently, although parts of his Sarah push looked a little too confident for me but I don't know if that's scum TMI or clidd's supreme confidence.

Pink Ball had a really town entrance in the way he was trying to cooperate with you, and his reaction at the start of day 3 after Sherlock flipped scum seemed genuine.

Dunny has felt towny all game.

I'll have to look into them.

(p.s: does town!pyro really think dunn "has felt towny all game"? i find dunn kind of a hard read, but EH, whatever)

like basically, if i can say clidd's obvtown, pyro knows it too.

4: his latest posts. these are probably the worst offenders

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

Could've just got lucky.

there is no way town!pyro handwaves something like this and *actually* believes it

I still think KidAmn over clidd though

clidd, was it a conscious effort to change your playstyle after olaf made his case on you?

clidd suspicion = bad, but the second line is especially "you-can't-seriously-be-thinking-this" feeling. i guess this one is a vibe-read

5: the fey kill reason is moot. fey/morning/us are mechclear; we are all going to die eventually. pyro wasn't especially in any danger yesterday to need help.

5: general play. reevaluating his play in this game, he's played a fairly conventional game. he hasn't done anything especially controversial/stuck his neck out for something he believes. he doesn't have any towny instances where he looks superbly bad because he's uninformed and town. the fact that he was bussing the right people at the right time makes me think he's moreso scum, really, cause his main objective is to look good here

lastly, i want to apologise for my awful play in this game; i really didn't put enough effort into this as i should have. pyro's played well and this kinda sucks for him, but yeah, @TOWN, please VOTE: pyro, and never ever ever vote clidd. for the spirit of mistuha, PLEASE. good luck, friends! o7



~mitsuha

Kanna requested that this be posted if she dies. I got permission to direct quote it.

That's quite a pleasant surprise. It's interesting and scary at the same time that Kanna manages to maintain a 100% accuracy in her reads about me in every game we play. Also makes me question whether I will be caught easily at the time when we were of opposite alignments.

Regarding the read on Pyro, I had a different conclusion about the slot after a re-reading, but if he's the person I think Kanna is implying that he is and has experience with me, it's scum indicative the fact that he included me on his PoE, especially knowing that I have a tendency to be suspicious of people who consider me town easily.

[clidd]

But as I said yesterday, there is always room to reevaluate.

I'm looking forward to see what Pyro will post today.

[clidd]

If I had to doubt my townreads:

clidd: the most solid argument is that Krazy did want this elimmed because clidd is great as town and it's a solid strategy to get rid of him as soon as possible, especially if the other possible eliminations are not strong players (like Italiano or 5uffering), and by "strong" I don't mean 'bad', but players who you want to keep around so you can eliminate later. clidd is not like them, he gets harder to eliminate as the game goes on. If you get rid of that interaction 'cause "hey it's scum, it's WIFOM!", then yeah, clidd could be scum because of what he has been pushing has been constantly incorred iirc, from start to finish. Want to scumread clidd? Call him out on a BoP.

Dunn: the only time I have imagined Dunn as scum is because of mechanics. One of Kid/Dunn could perfectly be scum because of the setup, if not both messing with us. But Kid looks worse, everytime.

Fey: I don't think so, pal. (Maybe if you want me to stretch it, it could be that the nightskip by Fey was not really Fey, but it was Titus; Titus got a 1-shot dayvig by exchanging it with a nightskip, and they're using it to give one if her teammates a solid fakeclaim. Fey is the bus driver! Yeah, see? Makes no sense)

Kanna: I've been saying it since I repped in, they're town and I'm great reading her. This is conftown so I'm not even bothering.

Morning Tweet: being a messenger is practically being a VT so it's not her role what makes her town, but I think that if the scumteam already had suspicions about Kanna's role (and that's why the first message was directed at her), then I think Kanna would be dead already to avoid having a conftown. I don't really have any concerns about MT right now, I really liked her posts today, so I don't have any doubts about her.

So as you can see, every reasoning to try to scumread my townreads are weak if not inexistent. Instead, the rest of the playerlist, my PoE, have a much more solid ground.

Pyro, for instance, has been constantly pushing Kanna and Pooky to make them claim. I still believe that Battle Mage's wagon formed in part because he was partially scumreading Pyro, so he was the best counterwagon to W&P

.

Sarah's V I B I N G aesthetic and trying to slip away by going with the consensus are the biggest reasons to scumread her, and that reasons are bigger than anything I said about my townreads.

And Kid well, I think how Gamma tried to approach this game was scummy. Not much to say about that without re reading again.

Wow! PB’s ISO is practically a treasure trove of towniness.

I agree + Saudade townreading me after I hardpushed him is extremely hard to come from scum!Saudade.

[clidd]

I don't get what Morning is doing/saying. It looks robotic and not very gamesolving, but from what I understand the slot is mechanically town, so I will ignore those impressions.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Pyro missing how my plan to clear Kid was faulty and also hand-waving the "Even-night" problem are both kind of odd. Of course, I agree the Fey kill was quite agiven for scum to make.

I suppose if you want to explain the bussing [disclaimer: not entirely sure but i am under the impression Pyro bussed at least War and Peace hard] -- the bus driver is the scumteam's most important member, after all. Perhaps it wasn't by chance.

I am inclined to agree with the deceased mason off the bat here, but we'll see what happens

I wasn't aware whether scum were multitasking or not, 2 versus games ago they were, last one they weren't

I looked through the rules and it didn't seem to be stated whether or not they were, so your plan would've cleared KidAmn if they weren't (which I was hoping for). It then got clarified they were though and Alisae publicly told us.

Regarding the even-night thing: Whenever you as scum claim something, you have the option to add a odd/even3night modifier to it. I know I myself and others have tacked on one of those when fakeclaiming as scum, and in many of those instances, the modifier itself doesn't have anything to do with the setup or playing around 1 specific role, it just soemthing to nerf the role's power level/a decision to balance it and make it look realistic by scum

So, although it would be an interesting coincidence if Dunny was actually an odd night doc after KidAmn claimed even night Rolestopper, it's entirely possible scum!KidAmn just got lucky that they happened to claim even night and not odd night, and that it lined up with Dunny's claim

It'd be somewhat lucky and coincidental, but they happen. And I wasn't confident regardless of flip yesterday btw, you can probably tell from my play that I didn't REALLY believe in anyone flipping scum, but just thought KidAmn was our best bet

I've felt

confident

on scum at 2 points during this game; once on War and Peace which made me case them until Nancy would listen to me and get them out. And secondly on Sarah, after she claimed to have thought War and Peace may have been a mason, which I absolutely did not believe and expressed many times, but that one required less convincing since most people seemed sold

I am now as confident on Dunny being scum as I was in either of those two instances

Kanna's post actually infuriates me and I'm not even sure why, maybe it's the confidence

To quickly address the points:
1) Mason hunting theory is ridiculous. You were absolutely mason or scum to me very early on, and if I were scum, I would've killed you very early on. I thought you were scum or mason from lack of motivation to post in-thread and I was leaning scum (partly because of a tinfoil reason I can't talk about). My scumgame is not one where I openwolf and hunt for masons openly. I play it safe and aim to look towny, and appearing to hunt for masons is very scummy on a surface level

5) Gonna go to this point next just to emphasize on how contradictory it is with 1). I've played "conventionally" and done nothing to stick my neck out, but I've also been openly mason hunting at the same time? And pushing and casing people is not conventional/safe, I've cased several people this game whenever I've been feeling it (including clidd, War and Peace, Sarah)

I've explained 2 and 4

Regarding 3) This is just a "you disagree with me on a read so you're scum"
clidd's early playstyle was evey reminiscent of his scumplay in Ultimate Conspiracy. Strong takes and opinions, but not much reasoning - that's why I cased him. Since then, his play has improved with more solving and yesterday, I wasn't sure who scum was because I didn't believe in anyone being scum. clidd was in the PoE but eh basically

Finally, regarding the Fey kill: I absolutely, absolutely do not kill Fey

first

out of the Morning/Starcrossed/Fey pool of conftown, and you can theorize all you want that it technically doesn't matter when it comes done to final 3, but I never ever make that kill first.

Having Fey alive in final 7 and final 5 when I'm scum and she's been screaming I'm town all game is so incredibly valuable, and no amount of WIFOM would make me make that kill going into final 7. From your perspective, it's a possibility scum!Pyro does it for WIFOM - but I'm just being honest with you, I never actually do. I don't value WIFOM very highly in practice, and usually opt to make the logical kills which benefit me most in gamestate

(still love you btw, Kanna <3)

Anyway:

clidd is town because Sarah was seriously trying to push for him to be killed over her in final 9, ot would essentially be scum TMIing on her partner if clidd was scum regarding the whole Krazy push reasoning, and I believe Sarah is smarter than that

Additionally, I bothered to look back and Krazy was onboard and encouraging killing clidd *after* Nancy had in the launch pool and was voting him

Finally, his play yesterday really seemed to hinge on the game ending with KidAmn's death - I think he genuinely believed in it and it doesn't feel like he's playing with a plan in mind for endgame

Pink Ball;
Sarah stated that he was town for a "trust tell level replace out from Saudade" and I think scum!Sarah actually believes in that and it's TMIing him town.
His interactions with Nancy upon replacing in were very genuine and appeared in good faith, and his tone has been excellent

Morning Tweet;
Bats are evil, this could be the serial killer but this is a problem for final 3

Dunny;
The last wolf! I don't want to list the reasons because I don't want Dunny to try and refute them while they're in lazy bullet point form

I'll get to it, dw

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I feel rather confident on Pyro being town, we had the same reads for the most part save for some variances. Paranoia there should not be tolerated, really.

One last thing:

Fey had the exact same read on Starcrossed and was actually the one that got them to claim. Please don't be selective about your evidence that Fey is doing it while town but it makes me scum. Additionally, it's not me piggybacking off her read either - I was the first to suspect and push Starcrossed.

Nancy, please listen to Fey when she drilled into you over and over again that I was town. She's genuinely never been more sure I'm town in any other game (you can check)

Alright, thanks.

[clidd]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

So you have no reads + do you interpret Pyro as town pushing you?

[clidd]

Meh, I don't get it.

Pyro has already suggested that the last scum is Dunn and his reaction is to remain impartial towards me/Pyro and then go to the mech talk, but without engaging with any of us to help him evaluate our slots.

[clidd]

It wouldn't be difficult for town!Dunn to express himself about who he thinks is scum, as well as the reasons. Be it a post that he found scummy, vote, behavior, draft, etc.

[clidd]

Not seeing this makes me think that he's apathetic town or scum who does not want to take a stand to reflect like apathetic town.

[clidd]

I'm waiting for Pyro to expand on the reasons that are making him see scum!Dunn btw.

[clidd]

clidd, do you still drink coffee while winding down to do some solving? I miss your old mentions of that.

(I'm doing it now as we speak)

Yes, I do (less often now), but I stopped mentioning when I'm drinking. I don't remember exactly why, but it was probably just a habit that I unconsciously lost.

[clidd]

WHERE IS EVERYONE

I REQUIRE GOOD COMPANY, IMMEDIATELY

[clidd]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

[clidd]

Sounds good, although I'm semi-paranoid about you.

Not because you're scummy or something like that, but because of the quality of your scumgame + for what Kanna said.

But if you're town, I should be able to see that today.

[clidd]

I'm back, let me see what I missed.

[clidd]

Pyro's case is subjective. If you read with the assumption "Dunn is scum" as true, the connections make sense, but if you try to judge what is being talked about impartially, there are alternative explanations for most of the events, but to argue about it would be to enter a completely speculative field whose conclusion will depend on the interpretation of who is reading. So the way Dunn is handling/reacting to the case is more suggestive in terms of alignment than the case itself.

[clidd]

Hum.. I'm trying to understand Dunn's reaction here.

In my imagination, Town!Dunn would probably look at Pyro's scumcase, obviously knowing that the conclusion is incorrect, but seeing the reasoning as too composed to be a cognitive effort coming from scum trying to forge a scum!Dunn theory, especially knowing that the game doesn't end today, which makes me think that town!Dunn would also see Pyro as town, consequently leading him to think that the last scum would be me by PoE and then leading him to reread the game/my ISO to identify points/posts that could give more substance to his scum!Clidd PoE solve, but his line of action was: deny> make little effort> call Fey's pov over me again> vague comments. No gamesolving at all.

[clidd]

Which, as I said in a previous post, can be coming from town with a great apathetic level, or scum who is acting apathetically to try to be interpreted as apathetic town. In the context of Pyro accusing Dunn, however, I believe the reaction is unusual and not compatible with what town!Dunn should be thinking imo at the moment in an evaluative sense.

[clidd]

It would be easier if Dunn expands everything he's thinking about the game and demonstrates his reasoning. If he's coming from a town mentality, we will be able to identify. If not, nothing is going to change.

As the game is rn, I'm inclined to consider Pyro as more likely to be town than Dunn, but unfortunately I still couldn't see anything that I could attribute exclusively to town!Pyro (and lock him).

So it's on Dunn now to act if he's town, otherwise my perception still points (60%) to Pyro being town here.

[clidd]

I'm waiting for one last from post from Dunn before voting if we're doing his slot today.

[clidd]

@Clidd, I’m very sure Kanna is smiling rn in the dead thread.

Yep, her voice was heard. Things might be drastically different if you saw me as scum here.

Although you already had an accurate read a long time ago about Sherlock trying to miseliminate me.

[clidd]

Actually,

VOTE: Dunnstral

You finally towntold.

[clidd]

Moonlogic/clidd logic. It won't be very intuitive for me to explain.

[clidd]

You can consider my vote as a non-voluntary brain manifestation.

I still want to see Dunn posting, btw.

[clidd]

Nice hammer, Pb.

I'm glad we won and no paranoia about scum!Morning, scum!Pyro or scum!Pb scenario has come true.

Quite a pleasurable hemorrhagic experience, I would say.

[clidd]

And this is truly the best readlist in the game (6975), lol.

[clidd]

Nice hammer, Pb.

I'm glad we won and no paranoia about scum!Morning, scum!Pyro or scum!Pb scenario has come true.

Quite a pleasurable hemorrhagic experience, I would say.

I had to put a lot of effort to ignore what I felt was pocketing from you 'cause you made no sense as scum

I think that any kind of suspicion of my slot would be healthy considering the way I played this game.

But I’m glad you was flexible with me.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

oops

sorry guys, pyro especially.... i'm glad my clidd read was right though!

pleasure playing with you all and thanks to ali for modding <3

~mistuha

I would be a corpse if it weren't for your read, thanks. I owe you one.

[clidd]

sorry for the push clidd, my paranoia was s t r o n g.

It's fine, as I said, those suspicions were conceptually justified by the approach I took here.

I would probably do the same.