Happy Face Mafia (Game Over)

[willow1]

Spoiler:

vote: retti

[willow1]

aight this game is way too slow for me let's policy some lurksack

vote: bear hydra

[willow1]

wait they have a post

i'm leaving it anyway idgaf

[willow1]

titus post is something i'd do as scum but titus ain't me. i don't wanna vote there. i don't really want to vote sam or raya either.

i'm actually pretty happy w/ where my vote is atm. classic dilemma of "want to get real discussion by voting someone active but don't want to vote anyone active"

this is a hydra i expected to start strong and instead has 1 post

[willow1]

because i don't give a shit about RVS or arbitrary breakouts or VCA lmao

immediately told you why my vote was where it is, why it wasn't on you, and don't care if it's the weekend. one head being absent rn is understandable, all three isn't a crime but i am very happy where i am.

[willow1]

"if scum would do it, it's as good a reason as any in RVS" is just disgustingly bad and false

the whole point of breaking out of RVS is to make marginal improvements in reasoning towards something you think is AI. i think your post was nai. i don't the hydra lurking is.

[willow1]

and with the "probably" qualifier i concur, but you're currently voting no fade

we ain't the same

[willow1]

hop aboard if y'all want rvs to end so bad

[willow1]

hop aboard if y'all want rvs to end so bad

You're not really filling me with confidence to follow you.
It's one thing to lack care with participating in RVS, but when you force it into a direction that you are going for, it's still just RVS. Just wrapped with a ribbon.

thanks professor, take your time and play when you feel like it

[willow1]

it's being condescending while actively getting in the way of me trying to do things that is getting you flak from me

[willow1]

do you think i'm scum shoving a lurker? food for thought

[willow1]

titus post is something i'd do as scum but titus ain't me. i don't wanna vote there. i don't really want to vote sam or raya either.

i'm actually pretty happy w/ where my vote is atm. classic dilemma of "want to get real discussion by voting someone active but don't want to vote anyone active"

this is a hydra i expected to start strong and instead has 1 post

because i don't give a shit about RVS or arbitrary breakouts or VCA lmao

immediately told you why my vote was where it is, why it wasn't on you, and don't care if it's the weekend.

one head being absent rn is understandable, all three isn't a crime but i am very happy where i am.

"if scum would do it, it's as good a reason as any in RVS" is just disgustingly bad and false

the whole point of breaking out of RVS is to make marginal improvements in reasoning towards something you think is AI. i think your post was nai.

i don't the hydra lurking is.

[willow1]

I was going to say something like "if you don't like rvs, don't have a scumread, and don't scumread me maybe your vote will be more useful helping me" but this works too

[willow1]

not really rn but go wolf go

[willow1]

that reply ain't good tho, kinda distracted at the drive thru

[willow1]

why does it have to be genuine

Because town should generally be genuine. It's scum who want to fake a scumread

this is a good take

the angle i thought you were taking here is that it was okay for town to be a bit artificial early on to drive the game forward

and importantly i thought this implied you did so

i didn't like that but saw it as plausibly town, calling it a good take is really taking the ball and running the other direction

why even ask this if your take was genuine?

[willow1]

glad i poked the bear out of hibernation but kind of gated by only seeing scum noraa. i'll probably have more to say on their titus stuff later but not atm

[willow1]

i'm down atm

vote: sam

[willow1]

Bear, it's expected your hydra will have many posts. That's not an in depth secret, nor is Romance claiming your volume suggests something about your alignment.

I find it odd you're objecting to Romance but you're quiet on Willow.

VOTE: Bear hydra

I actually think willow is scum. it just wasn't a great time to point that out cuz willow just SRed me. I naturally have a lot of SRs in games so I tend to keep away from OMGUSing unless I'm really strong on it.
Which I actually am a decent amount strong on willow.
But.
I already put a couple SRs down on the table. Putting too many will end up bad for me and the game.

my impression from the scum PT of draft mafia was that you really struggle to get in the game as scum. you were very eager to jump into fights with overly strong stances. this game you started out similarly w/ titus. the issue is that this is a good instrument to read people based off their reaction, meaning it was time to sit back and wait.

this is a good post and a clear divergence from draft mafia imo, in that you're being a lot more measured w/ how to push and be effective rather than pointing the gun and baiting a fight with anyone who dares push you

tonally from me this game strikes the same note as draft mafia, and my fight with vfp is similar to my fight with lunar from that game. these are nai.

[willow1]

willow
Romance
Raya
Titus

-----NULL LINE-----

VFP
samantha
Enchant

-Bam

i really want to know more about rom/titus. i'm not townreading rom and their analysis of vfp 78 was bad imo

[willow1]

Who are you really,

willow

? I'm on the ground and can't get back up.

-Bam

ur mom lol

[willow1]

Oh, it's

You

.

-Bam

yes, him. be afraid, be very afraid

[willow1]

with that in mind, do you still feel the same way about vfp being below null after reading this?

do you think i'm scum shoving a lurker? food for thought

I'm unsure on your motive yet.
But I don't think you believe in your push. Even more so where you expect people to Blindley follow you.

Either town trying to actually get out of RVS or scum trying to look active without doing anything.

If I thought you were scum I'd have voted you by now.

I don't like this -- the bolded part feels like it's leaving room to go one way or another, but VFP is choosing the non-aggressive route knowing that Willow will push back without fear and will do so loudly.

[willow1]

i don't have vfp as town because stylistically holding off a vote is an easy hill to die on, trivial to defend as scum, but arguably not being at all afraid i would shove them instead is +town

rom took that and for some reason called it scummy

[willow1]

ok ur cool u can go in town pile

[willow1]

i mean there's rarely anything "objectively" scummy but i didn't like it because it seemed like you wanted to comment or take a side with depth, but the conclusion was unnatural/confusing to me

to some extent people just turn their brains off when they see my lowercase but the same underestimation makes me a good buddy target. based off stuff w/ noraa i'm also wondering if you saw draft mafia and if so i'm skeptical.

[willow1]

that makes me feel a bit better

either way i don't share the tr but i'm not voting you anytime soon, votes atm to me are sam/lurkers

[willow1]

sam can you be explicit as to whether or not your read on unwnd was genuine or artificial

very confused about why you responded to raya w/ that question if it was genuine and your posting atm is just kind of...present. it's great that you're not panicking but there are several easy trs here imo.

[willow1]

i'm still ok w/ this vote, i don't like any of sam/vfp/enchant/wheme in basically that order

likin' retti so far

alisae head of bamboozle singlehandedly killed the tr on the slot

[willow1]

i don't think it's scummy but i love how jjh was like "oh there's content cool" then did not follow up at all lol

[willow1]

@Willow, why did you fixate on us but have made virtually no comment on Hubble Bubble or Penguin - both of whom are probably in prod range by now?

i had specific expectations around your slot based off of my experiences w/ pooky and noraa in draft mafia. i don't have experience with either hb or penguin. you also seemed to be upset that i might be taking advantage of you having a bad week; the "one head being absent i understand" comment actually wasn't general but was specifically w/ your situation in mind. noraa reacted in a way that i really don't expect to come from her as scum based off draft, still want more from pooky though.

the entire point of picking your hydra wasn't to immediately get a flip but that i was likely going to get a strong read out of prodding you regardless of what you were.

-------------------------------------------
| samantha97, enchant, bear hugs, willow1 |
-------------------------------------------

look at that beautiful rectangular town block

anyone else wanna join

why are either of me/enchant in this

[willow1]

So who do you think is scum? I thnk Dunn/unwnd interactions were strange. What do you think @Bamboozled?

I like Bamboozled so far. More town than majority of what I've seen.
I don't have hard scum pushes yet but I'm sure I will. Now who do I think has more chance flip scum right now?

Samantha
jjh

And Dunn / unwnd means nothing to me as I don't know inside jokes and I'm not too great at understanding sarcasm. That said, it didn't look serious.

This game is too slow for me.
I'm gonig to coast until I see something ilike.

In the mean time feel free to convince me why I should vote with you (anyone).

Yeah, I'm not voting Dunn.

your reads are completely lacking in any explanation while you're mostly just making aimless and often lecturing commentary. the few you do give come directly from being pressed and are really awkward

it is unclear to me why you are both dissatisfied with the pace of the game and with not having any scumreads but fail to explain the reads and reactions to wagons that you do have

[willow1]

vote: vfp

[willow1]

if what we have seen so far is the extent of commentary we can expect from you i am 100% fine voting you out. know in advance that any lecture about how it's suboptimal to flip you if you're town or w/e will be ignored w/ zero remorse. the only thing that is of any interest to me whatsoever is for you to actually back up the opinions you're giving rather than be an empty black box that spits out random reads with no explanation.

[willow1]

like i just gave you a springboard to talk about two reads that you appear to have a stance on that are actually interesting and can help drive the pace of the game forward in meaningful ways, one of them being around a contentious wagon that you could help derail, find scum on, etc.

and that was what you gave

and you have the gall to be like "this game is too slow nothing is happening nobody is giving anything everybody else do things"

[willow1]

My boozle requires assistance, VFP.

Because you're focus is going where I'm thinking.
Your questions aren't questions to look busy but actually want the answers.
164 is a decent take, even if some errors.

my bad, you actually did explain the bamboozle read, took more teeth pulling but you did it

[willow1]

my vote is not moving until you explain what is wrong with the dunnstral wagon or provide a substantial scumread on a player

sounds like me and enchant made bad posts. stop being a coward and explain it

[willow1]

and yeah, if you only give any anything of substance when directly asked, you're being completely worthless as a player and should be policied even without that content being awkward as hell

[willow1]

more performative garbage instead of actual substance

more votes on this slot, thanks

[willow1]

instead of just explaining why he doesn't like the dunn vote or investigating the people on it he launches into this spiel about how he will not be worried about being flipped, because he is town, and will not join a wagon for peer pressure, because he is town

a++

[willow1]

literally completely unable to put his money where his mouth is, on me, on the dunn wagon, on enchant, on anything

[willow1]

this is 100% a scumread to be clear

[willow1]

projection/deflection city lmfao, feel free to explain why sam is mafia at any point if that's a real read you have

i'm done here, everyone else can chip in

[willow1]

so vote me if i'm fake and forced lmao, that's so much more reasoning than you've given on sam

oh wait

this is performative garbage lmao

(i'm not voting dunn nor have i ever voted him btw)

[willow1]

you think it's a bad wagon. it is unclear why. you have said i'm forced, fake, and pushing a narrative but aren't voting me, only played the martyr for how you're obviously being unfairly targeted for being a useless black box and

and how it's your right to be this useless black box who aimlessly shuts down conversation with an empty oneliner but never explains himself

because

you're town, actually

now you're trying to shift the discussion to being about why the dunn vote specifically, when the answer is very obvious from my posting, which is that you said it was a bad wagon without any explanation or followup and would actually be useful for you to expound on, rather than being anything about my opinion dunn himself (i have none)

this awkward deflection of "well actually YOU'RE the performative one" and me+dunn speculation is just wildly deflective and projecting

now i'm actually going to step away because at this point w/ the topic switch you're intentionally trying to muddy the waters and make this as hard as possible to follow while still saying nothing of fucking substance all the while

[willow1]

TVTTTTTTTTTTTT

please put into words your townread on vfp

[willow1]

differing playstyles is fine. there is a reason i have been castigating/babysitting one specific player and the reason is that the content you're calling useful depended on another player to forcefully extract

[willow1]

so vote me

[willow1]

Willow just actively dodging anything I ask.

i made it very clear why, but sure

you think it's a bad wagon

Wtf? When did I say its a bad wagon?

And don't go with 'assumed' or 'implied' bullshit.

the second quote makes it clear that you went back and found exactly why i believed you thought it was a bad wagon. rather than explaining, correcting, clarifying, etc. you immediately moved to shut down the explanation preemptively while still acting like you didn't know the answer

throughout this entire conversation you have been hellbent on flopping and playing the wounded townie, standing strong in the face of persecution, when in reality you've stood for nothing all game. you acted like i should have asked you about sam instead, and when i said to feel free to explain, because all i've wanted is for you to give the thoughts you supposedly have and gave you multiple vehicles to help get you to do so...you promptly still did not explain your sam read.

you supposedly think i am fake, forced, painting this false narrative around you maliciously. this is much more than you have given on sam, but there's no vote to accompany it. you knew exactly why i asked about dunn specifically but topic switched to act like you didn't.

rather than claiming my stepback was inherently scum motivated, you're acting like you didn't see it or that me not breaking it was scum indicative.

this entire conversation reeks of bad faith, deflection and i would love to piledrive you.

[willow1]

more whataboutism, nice

done with this slot, becoming more and more inaccessible

[willow1]

please forward all questions to @retti in the near future. thank you.

[willow1]

not responding to that.

vote me if i'm scum.

[willow1]

look, i can go back and quote where i explained why i asked about dunn-it was an arbitrary selection of what i thought were underexplained things worth expounding on for you. you can make your point that you never said it was a bad wagon and that i drew the wrong conclusion from you saying you wouldn't vote dunn. i can make my point above rehashed or pointing out that you quoted my explanations and clearly found what led me to believe that on your own but are acting confused anyway.

we can no u slapfight all day, incentivizing exactly no one to read our magnum opus arguments because they're too long and increasingly convoluted, or we can let other players weigh in on what we have discussed and circle back later.

[willow1]

i actually answered you directly in that lol

[willow1]

Spoiler: ok

point 1

look, i can go back and quote where i explained why i asked about dunn-

it was an arbitrary selection of what i thought were underexplained things worth expounding on for you.

you can make your point that you never said it was a bad wagon and that i drew the wrong conclusion from you saying you wouldn't vote dunn. i can make my point above rehashed or pointing out that you quoted my explanations and clearly found what led me to believe that on your own but are acting confused anyway.

we can no u slapfight all day, incentivizing exactly no one to read our magnum opus arguments because they're too long and increasingly convoluted, or we can let other players weigh in on what we have discussed and circle back later.

quotes explaining this previously

now you're trying to shift the discussion to being about why the dunn vote specifically, when

the answer is very obvious from my posting, which is that you said it was a bad wagon without any explanation or followup and would actually be useful for you to expound on, rather than being anything about my opinion dunn himself (i have none)

like i just gave you a springboard to talk about two reads [bam, dunn vote] that you appear to have a stance on that are actually interesting and can help drive the pace of the game forward in meaningful ways, one of them being around a contentious wagon that you could help derail, find scum on, etc.

point 2: where did i think you said it was a bad wagon

You don't even say you made the wrong assumption with my thoughts on the Dunn wagon, you say my point about you doing so.

damn, looks like you understood why i believed you said that (i had an overly strong interpretation of not voting dunn) and what my answer was in that post, immediately shut it down preemptively in your first post on this but have acted like it's a grand mystery anyway

bonus question about sam

Sam originally was just me voting with Raya.
Since then Sam has posted a lot of empty posts and going for what seems easy pushes. Thers no town motive to Sam's play and I'm keeping my vote on Sam over you.

considering i have no longer wanted to dialogue with you for eons b/c this is in bad faith and have said 5+ times that we should stop because this is unreadable garbage it shouldn't be a shocker that i do not want to talk further with you

this is very vague and unclear how it is stronger given the concrete, extremely strong claims you've made about me but given sam is my second vote anyway i don't exactly disagree

[willow1]

cool, you never actually said that it was a bad wagon, I had an overly strong interpretation of the not voting Dunn post and gave a bad phrasing in the middle of a multipage argument. I suspect you have known this since the start, but instead played dumb and refuse to accept it as valid, which is the point I have made the last page or two, and why I think this is in bad faith.

time to leave it to the people to be the judge

[willow1]

if you want to push me further or need the last word make a singular post case for others to read rather than asking me the same two questions and getting the same two answers for 5 pages on end

[willow1]

don't call it tvt if you're not going to read it, blame it on both of us if you want but that is exactly what I was trying to avoid and drawing a conclusion without reading it is awful

steer clear if you want but jesus

[willow1]

hint if one of the players is doing his best to make it accessible

and the other isn't

maybe it's for a reason

[willow1]

yes, they outed no read on the slot but made it clear a large chunk of it was because you were the one asking

not even remotely the part that's actually scummy

[willow1]

for titus i thought t3's reaction to me/vfp was town, type of player to just see two people walling and just assume they're town for effort, struggle to read dunnstral but he's okay

[willow1]

@maria I'm currently voting vfp

im an old man who uses bold still so I'll swap to vote tags to make it easier to spot sorry

VOTE: vfp

Edited! Thanks~Maria

[willow1]

i can see the flopping/playing the pedantic victim of injustice being stylistic, might meta them later. sam/bell good alternate votes imo, in that order.

still keeping this for now

[willow1]

retti is fine btw, not hardtown but the case is essentially first that vfp is town and retti is scumpushing them. the first may or may not be true, the second he's adequately covered the bases for me to not be able to tell the difference.

[willow1]

imagine looking at extensive citations and research across three different games with full explanations

then going "your reads are shit and you're shit because my gut tells me they're town i don't need to read anything"

lol

[willow1]

if u say so lol

[willow1]

pissing ur pants won't help but go off king

[willow1]

essoa's posting in this isn't scum indicative imo, just the same old shit you saw on em for years with a different name tacked on

[willow1]

i won't be posting further until something gets resolved w/ maria, just a heads up

[willow1]

not related to mechanics or alignment

[willow1]

nvm, maria not necessary, satisfied that i can continue playing this game

carry on

[willow1]

fwiw i don't think retti is an alt, just an old em player

but goodbye bell u will be missed

[willow1]

idk given ur opening posts, citations and comparisons of meta, and pinpoint of what exactly was happening & scummy in the exchange w/ me, was pretty openended and coulda gone either way tbh

how do u feel about sam, i really didn't like their random townblock/responses to pressure but the open opportunism is kind of giving me pause? mite b dumb to tr that

[willow1]

im ok slotting rom as town now, afk gives the bear hydra a TR pass and moved on every time as mafia i think

[willow1]

specifically the read on bear/nancy, i'm saying i think Romance scum doesn't even bother risking it by being ambivalent. afk townread the slot, let someone random townie get tunneled for suggesting they could be scum, and move on with scumlife

[willow1]

idk given ur opening posts, citations and comparisons of meta, and pinpoint of what exactly was happening & scummy in the exchange w/ me, was pretty openended and coulda gone either way tbh

how do u feel about sam, i really didn't like their random townblock/responses to pressure but the open opportunism is kind of giving me pause? mite b dumb to tr that

who is this to?

it's to retti because the answer was blatantly yes regardless of alignment and even if he somehow hadn't he'd still say yes

[willow1]

you're missing the point esooa

you said vfp didn't do anything scummy

retti is saying how do you know if you didn't read the willow/vfp fight (the scummiest part of the iso)

you can say they've been town enough that it doesn't matter, which i believe is what you're saying, but shouldn't require an interpreter

you're making over the top claims in your defense of vfp that are shooting you in the foot. retti meanwhile is seeing the same shit he watched town do like clockwork every game and scumreading it which I don't agree w/ but find plausible

[willow1]

ie. vfp can be town, and you can be right, but being measured and realistic in what you claim about the iso goes a long way. if you think that iso is blatantly town from the first half alone that's fine, but going "how can retti find this [segment of the iso you admittedly did not pay attention to] scummy? trash reads trash player" is a recipe for frustration and disaster

P-Edit: uhhhh vfp didn't really make conflicting statements, the issue is the over the top indignant theater and deflection of questions into pedantry on

vfp's end

regarding my wording

[willow1]

you're missing the point esooa

you said vfp didn't do anything scummy

retti is saying how do you know if you didn't read the willow/vfp fight (the scummiest part of the iso)

you can say they've been town enough that it doesn't matter, which i believe is what you're saying, but shouldn't require an interpreter

you're making over the top claims in your defense of vfp that are shooting you in the foot. retti meanwhile is seeing the same shit he watched town do like clockwork every game and scumreading it which I don't agree w/ but find plausible

It's the way she's arguing with me that's bothering me. It feels bad faith.

mmmm i don't agree, which sucks because you helped me out when i made a similar claim about vfp

being egotistical to a fault in an opinion isn't bad faith imo but i'll review it later, bit busy at the moment and should probably step back anyway for now

[willow1]

i think you're fundamentally misinterpreting the point retti was making about vfp. the shift in wording mid argument was from me, and we're both arguing that vfp's capitalization on that was deflecting, overly pedantic, and seemed to be in bad faith. idk, might be worth revisiting but obviously i am biased by my own read on that interaction.

i appreciate us all taking 5

[willow1]

Also, that last post by Bell was a straight up scumclaim, yeah? Would people be okay with just voting him out here and now?

mmm, looking around not sure this is true despite knowing bell is very divergent

also tempted 2 vote u for claiming 2 have gone outside lmao

[willow1]

665 is a good post despite being less willing to pull the trigger

[willow1]

VOTE: sam

[willow1]

If bell flips scum I think retti is lock scum for mep

don't understand this

this bamboozle person needs to go though more votes there.

your push on them was based on them "trying to look townie" which is vague with nothing to refute.

they gave a sarcastic response to you highlighting this emptiness with rhetorical questions. i didn't like this but when you ignore it they accuse you of deflecting, and you respond in kind.

ie. probably best to just elaborate

[willow1]

i'll be around later tonight but how it is atm for me:

locktown {rom, bear}
townlean {retti, t3, esooa, raya}
null {bamboozle, flea, dunn, enchant, jjh, penguin}
nullscum {titus, whemestar, bell}
scumleans {sam}
scumread {vfp}

[willow1]

I wish I could join a popular wagon but I am just not feeling them, particularly these two.

can you elaborate on those feelings? really curious why you're hesitant. trying to figure out how you're approaching this game because this doesn't seem to line up w/ other games i have spectated

[willow1]

gonna be real i'm playing video games tonight instead of reading lol, sorry

[willow1]

i would dayvig titus if i could, not even remotely trying to use the wagons or vote patterns a divining tool other than this awkward defense of bell (bell should be null at best, but pooky/retti are right on meta. i thought he siteflaked but he's still in for defcon)

ik people had questions for me, will circle back in a sec

[willow1]

bear is almost certainly town and bell flipping town would not move that read in the slightest

too little pooky posting, doesn't really try and buddy bell (which is necessary if belltown/pookyscum), and noraa's posts are very town, don't have as much of an opinion on nancy's but this slot should never be voted in a million years

[willow1]

I wish I could join a popular wagon but I am just not feeling them, particularly these two.

can you elaborate on those feelings? really curious why you're hesitant. trying to figure out how you're approaching this game because this doesn't seem to line up w/ other games i have spectated

There's too much omgus. Anyone who FoSes anyone else gets an automatic scumread back. Nothing feels like it's honest sorting. (Note: Honest means intellectually honest, not town/scum indicative).

I'm looking for someone with a deep, nuanced, possibly accurate read of the game to be my anchor. I haven't found it yet so I'm going through the game again.

I really like a Dunn scumread based on the vote history but I don't feel strong enough to case him.

this first line is gross. first off, there's an initial scumread before an omgus reaction, but you're treating them equally. second how on earth have you not been able to find a case of honest sorting this game lmfao

second line you are not looking hard enough because there have been many nuanced/deep reads this game: myself, retti, essooa, raya, bear hydra...most of which you've lumped in with the omgus reactions.

finally if you don't have an anchor testing reads/wagons is the way to get one and you're not doing that, not buying this

[willow1]

I don't think so. Scum!Bell could just feel bad doing that to his teammates knowing everyone will read a silent replace out as extremely scum-indicative for him. I think the final post is pretty NAI.

Anything is possible.

It's more likely scum!Bell would leave nothing.

It's worth noting no one interacted with what he did leave.

this is fundamentally untrue of anyone even remotely familiar with bell's play. he actively feels bad for his scumteam as he struggles with motivation and it is 100% up his alley to give one last attempt to cleanse his conscience

[willow1]

VOTE: sam

explain?

vfp wagon was dead, moved to second choice. didn't like the random townblock, never explained iirc, early answer to raya still rough

gonna be real i'm playing video games tonight instead of reading lol, sorry

what games

bejeweled 2 deluxe lmao

i think those were the only questions but if i missed one just lmk

[willow1]

also retti lmao @ u almost gladiating a town over that u big baby

proud of u 4 holding off

[willow1]

iirc someone also interpreted my "same shit on EM" comment on essooa as like, discrediting shade or to shut her down

it's definitely a bit denigrating but contextually if you go back and look i was trying to explain specifically to retti why i thought she was town, not trying to shout down her read to the game (which was on retti) or townread on vfp

[willow1]

i would dayvig titus if i could, not even remotely trying to use the wagons or vote patterns a divining tool other than this awkward defense of bell (bell should be null at best, but pooky/retti are right on meta. i thought he siteflaked but he's still in for defcon)

ik people had questions for me, will circle back in a sec

Really? I wouldn't expect her to go against the grain this much as scum, regardless of Bell's alignment, really

why would you expect this lol, whiteknighting hoping they get flipped anyway is scum 101 and titus has watched day 1 scumflips sink scumteams completely

i'm not saying there isn't town incentive to defend slots, to be clear, but confused as to why you expect the opposite. titus going with the flow in absence of a strong read or lack of appetite for her read is common. she has given some explanation on the bell read/pointing to lack of anchor that i don't really buy

[willow1]

it's tough to capture in quotes, where sometimes those votes/wagons happen to wind up on scumreads anyway, but take a look at games like flavor leaf vs. hectic, where she happily joins a wagon suggested by FL, and warehouse-13. idk maybe someone in those games can give context b/c i don't really want to quote from games i was actually in

actually after reading this post i would 100% vig her lol

I agree Titus is probably town which means she’s gonna say I suck at working together no matter what despite me in prior games actually being good town and she was in scums pocket so hard I deviated at the very end.

What caused your read change on me?

I’ve had a town read on you.

Your townread is conditional on Dunn because you want me to stop pushing my top scumreads of Cakez and Pooky and consolidate super early.

I am going to be blunt with you.

I am using the Dunn wagon to get reads. Such static reads aren't good. Use the wagon as a way to check your reads rather than supposing you're right. Let yourself and others solve the game over time.

How to host a murder isn't solved round 1.

[willow1]

I get that but doing it here feels like trying to fight the tide, like just an impossible level of momentum where saying anything is pointless. I guess that's dumb of me. I think seeing the way the votes went on Bell and panicking is understandable from a town POV who doesn't know what's what but of course the wagonomics or whatever don't really mean anything for Bell's alignment. Some of the reasoning she's had is just bad but that's not always scum indicative, really. I liked her points on Raya. I guess really I'm just townreading the conviction. I probably need to think it over.

why on earth would anyone have this conviction for bell town after even a single game of playing w/ bell lmfao

[willow1]

it being scum given his hectic irl, which i am pretty sure is legitimate b/c siteflake, is very tenuous but i'm okay w/ it getting flipped. bell not engaging is a death sentence to a slot unless a seriously town wizard reps in.

[willow1]

he is still /inned for games so very ambiguous, but bell if you're reading this the solution is not to out everywhere if u wanna play

does anyone have exp w/ hectic? pretty town posting to me but eh

[willow1]

let me be clear for bamboozle

i strongly doubt raya scum, or anyone, thinks she can get bear voted tomorrow lmao

[willow1]

VOTE: Titus

idrk how I feel about vfp anymore but sam's still up there and i'm fine w/ bell vote

[willow1]

damn, time to take me out of the townblock you never explained

[willow1]

aight I'm flipping back

VOTE: Sam

already gave a realist recently, nothing changed other than Titus shooting to the bottom

[willow1]

uhhhh probably not lol

if you were serious w/ the ur mom response i say that to everyone who asks lol

[willow1]

oh my god if i signed up for a multiball im gonna lose it lmfao

[willow1]

What would you give for ultimate power? Money? Love?

Your Humanity?

oh god she tried to warm us we didn't listen

lmaooooo

[willow1]

that is a good point im an old man and don't know what the kids call things these days

[willow1]

now i actually want to know who you're thinking of lmao

bamboozle hit me with the trap card

i don't think he's thinking of his mom. but maybe.

[willow1]

dont say it but postgame i wanna know

[willow1]

wait there's source material lol

i did not even look up my flavor person

this owns

[willow1]

Hey! Put on a happy face then everything's okay!

What would you give for ultimate power? Money? Love?

Your Humanity?

PLAYERLIST

1. willow1
   
2. Flea The Magician
   
3. Bamboozle (Alisae + Hectic)
   
4. Enchant
   Unwnd
   
   
5. WhemeStar
   
6. Dunnstral*
   
7. PenguinPower**
   
8. jjh927
   
9. Bear HUGS (Nancy Drew 39, Pooky and Noraa)
   
10. Raya36
    
11. Robert M Hunter
    Bell
    
    
12. Romance
    
13. T3
    
14. Titus
    
15. Esooa
    
16. VFP
    
17. Retti
    
18. samantha97

i mean the source isn't multiball and he claimed a multiball role

mariar and dunn being in a game w/ a seer doesn't change the fact she's not calling a standard cop a seer ever lol

glad ur realizing that shit indefensible

[willow1]

idk why that quoted but pretend there's a soft or secret message somewhere so I look cool

[willow1]

idea

we flip all three of rob/sam/titus

[willow1]

goodbye, sweet prince

[willow1]

do not bother to reread lmao, live ur life instead, im sorry son

[willow1]

they get reflected in the vc but i will wait for Maria just in case she doesn't count votes until she makes the declaration

[willow1]

????????

how is this not a scummy claim to you lol, joke is hypothetically possible but unlikely imo

[willow1]

i'm on my phone so have to keep it short but that doesn't move the needle for me, t3 still a townlean

habitual verbal hedging isn't ai w/o meta difference and several of those reads are natural, ex. Dunn wagon bad, Dunn posts more, doesn't like Dunn posts, votes Dunn.

[willow1]

ngl multiple heads of your hydra constantly calling my vote on you complete shit, when it was transparently a tool to read you, is tilting

your read on me in contrast is actual dogshit, because it has 0 teeth and is not being used to test anything other than to whip out day 5 if you decide to push me

[willow1]

second paragraph was unnecessarily mean, w/e, it's fine

[willow1]

like there's nothing wrong with gutreads or being wrong at all, it just really annoys me that if i want to vote you w/ specific things in mind to look for that's so unfair, horrible, terrible vote

but if you gutread me wrong with 0 explanation, 0 plan, 0 for me to respond to, it's totally fine play because it's your wrong read, not someone else's wrong read on you

but fundamentally my point isn't that your read on me is actually bad play and that was really mean so i am sorry

[willow1]

right, it was wrong because you happened to be busy that day. the difference is that was my attempt to drive out of rvs, i was very willing to be wrong, and i had specific ideas of what i was hoping & looking for either way

meanwhile i am a continually unexplained gut scumread w/ nothing else despite being in the top 3/4 of provided content

do you understand the difference in information available and in goals/usage

[willow1]

actually this is just pedantic w/ zero utility so w/e sure my read was trash we can move on and i can build a bridge and get over it

[willow1]

this is going to be great when he gets to vfp

[willow1]

Hey Robert, wanna explain that claim of yours a bit?

well first he has to think about what he's actually going to claim

may i suggest vanilla cop, those are popular lately

[willow1]

I read your case and in all honesty I think you're hyperfocusing on things that amount to playstyle (underexplained reads) and aren't inherently scummy IMO. In particular with regard to Dunn, a significant amount of time passed between him saying the votes were terrible and him scumreading Dunn. In the first instance (358), Dunn had 5 posts at that time, mostly in the RVS phase. By (670), a day had gone by and Dunn had only popped in to make a few irrelevant comments. I think it's perfectly reasonable to look at the context of what was going on, and see that at first he had thought there was no good reason to vote Dunn (which is not a townread, necessarily, as you seem to have assumed), but later on felt he was acting in a scummy way. I also think the post he made saying he thought wheme slipped is a towntell, that looked like a genuine "aha" moment for him and I don't think a newer scum player tries to make that case.

habitual verbal hedging isn't ai w/o meta difference and several of those reads are natural, ex. Dunn wagon bad, Dunn posts more, doesn't like Dunn posts, votes Dunn.

bro ur like the reverse cliffnotes lmao

[willow1]

Idk why ur sleepin' on my scumgame so hard but it won't bite u this time, lucky man

[willow1]

cool this ended so i can finally talk about it, people are posting even tho schadd didn't confirm

bell's posting here/irl comments was very similar to this game and he replaced out at the same time

so i was like '"ehhhhh nai?"

"...but he could just be scum in both. it's possible"

he was indeed scum in that one

[willow1]

VOTE: RMH

[willow1]

Someone say they feel I am town or scum so we can start to break RVS.

Either that or comment on Romance wagon which is a gun to my head wagon on scum.

for andante this was the titus post i'd make as scum, not the flavorclaim one from the same page. i didn't like people townreading this because titus wasn't born yesterday and knows the more vocal scum are at the start, the better it tends to go for them

[willow1]

noraa that line you're bolding is literally about samantha97 suggesting scumreads didn't have to be genuine, not about you. andante isn't saying you faked the bell/robert sr for fun.

[willow1]

like if you want more explanation on the read okay but demanding they apply the same criticism she/rom have of sam to you or else is bizarro

[willow1]

i just woke up and skimmed but i'm still down to piledrive titus

probably going to hold off until i actually read the game again but her reactions to votes day 1 was so fucking bad even w/o the robert flip

[willow1]

also w/o going too much into it, retti would not be the first time a vig killed an obvtown, esp with bamboozle a lot of people scumread that slot for dumb reasons

p-edit: bro but what about my tone!!!

[willow1]

also good lord someone needs to teach bell how to play scum this can't keep happening

"surely he's not just scum in both games"

[willow1]

T3 likely scum sheeping Willow. Regardless, I expect one scum in Willow/T3. I don't think Willow is taking advantage of the fact I said our playstyles would crash.

titus any update to your last post yesterday

my own commentary is that it's a weirdly specific +town reason for me in the middle of me shoving you, where a lot of my claim is in fact about playstyle (that you don't hold your vote off wagons in absence of something of your own)

did you expect scumwillow to shove you for your love of vca or something

[willow1]

Your tone is poop and I don't mess with that

we're like twins. but closer.

[willow1]

did you expect scumwillow to shove you for your love of vca or something

Yes. Scum Willow would do that. Scum willow would push me knowing our playstyles crash. I don't see that as your rationale for pushing me. Your push is melodramatic and overblown though.

Sure I was wrong on Bell/RMH. Sure I should be investigated because I was wrong.

Your responses to me are out of line proporionally though.

It's quite obvious that Bell was bussed particularly after that gladiate claim. No one thought Bell was living through that. It effectively shut down counter wagons though.

Overall, I think you're town but I'd feel more reassured if you hunted some other slots as well (even if voting me). I'm an easy place to sit at the moment. Scum!you is capable of just making noise about me alone and then just going whoops.

exactly zero of my vote on you depends on bell's flip.

i am arguing that you fundamentally do not do things like hold off voting wagons while not having a solid footing of the game to work with, and that you would instead have been happy to throw your vote around readily just to see what happens

you were not trying to read into the bell wagon as it was developing and there's little to no evidence you're using the flip at all even now

[willow1]

@Willow, I just lost team mafia due to a similar tunnel where town ignored evidence on scum because they wanted me so bad. So I'm a little jaded on that, but it's part of why you could be town.

if there is evidence against scum, feel free to point to it, but dunn commenting that two strong town prs died does not seem very scummy to me

in fact that entire opening post screamed town dunn w/ him trying to utilize the reactions to the flip out of the gate over waiting to see what is vulnerable and what isn't

[willow1]

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Raya36
Raya36 (4): jjh927, Titus, Retti, Bamboozle
samantha97 (3): VFP, Romance, willow1
Romance (2): Bell, WhemeStar
Retti (1): Flea The Magician,
Titus (1): T3
Enchant (1): Dunnstral

Not Voting (1): samantha97

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

Let's look at Raya's wagon. Retti is likely town and we're assuming he's town for purposes of this exercise. JJH encouraged the Raya vote based on the case I made. I don't think he spends his little capital doing that if he knows Bell/RMH is scum unless Raya also is. So we can rule out jjh scum, raya town.

That means if scum were trying to save Bell by sheeping my wrong case, it would have to be Bamboozle. If my Raya case is right, the Raya wagon is all town.

Tldr: One of Raya/Bam should flip scum.

I'm also assuming singleball.

this is the main wagon analysis you do, on the Raya wagon you started, where one of bam/raya will flip scum.

you've backed off of raya citing the romance kill changing your view.

i don't see any attempt to analyze the bell wagon, either before or after the gladiate, and dunn making a snarky remark on two town prs dying is aimless commentary and not scum indicative

[willow1]

Andantes only townread swere titus and the dead romance.

I don't think that's particularly AI for someone who had just subbed into the game and was catching up, she seemed more clueless than anything. Would've expected her teammates to tell her to stop posting if she was scum but she seemed to be kind of in her own world, so to speak.

this is giving the scumteam way too much credit lmao

but i liked her posting iirc

[willow1]

can you be more explicit in why you are right this game on dunn and everyone else is wrong for reasons other than the dead prs comment.

if that's literally it then ok but 1154 is wildly delusional and i mean that even if dunnstral is scum.

[willow1]

idk this is pretty brutal but to be blunt everyone in this game except for you sees how it gets said from an uninformed perspective. time to go back to the drawing board or engage with the qualitative play

[willow1]

...titus,idk if this changes anything, but did you miss that romance flipped with a cop mask?

[willow1]

I have.
1)The wagons

you have not explained what about the wagons points to dunnstral scum.

you gave the wagon analysis of raya/bam yesterday but that was it. nothing about dunn's role in the wagons working over your ISO today.

i hate to play 20 questions but fundamentally this has not been addressed whatsoever

[willow1]

. Dunn's entry here combined with wagons punishing his detractors yesterday

sorry, please be more explicit

[willow1]

nope, im good, pretty sure you've done enough damage already

[willow1]

wtf is that vc

ik I'm guilty of holding off but 4 of 14 players are voting, that is disgusting

VOTE: titus

[willow1]

i liked her meta on me/wheme

ngl this game is low priority for me and is just going to get lower, im still fine w/ my vote but will also just sheep retti

[willow1]

i think people are giving esooa way too much credit for that B
bell vote+comment about milquetoast observation but maybe I missed a bigger wall in my skim. still a townlean.

I'd go titus/vfp/andante with the disclosure that i haven't read andante's posting today

[willow1]

Honestly I've been just been waiting for people to talk more before I pick a target but it's been going kind of slow

impressed uve been able 2 hold it this long

[willow1]

lol

[willow1]

got her to make a vote, nice

not really going to spend time reading walls about mechanics or commentary with a focus on demonstrated process/ambiguous conclusions

if ur town ok but watching u go "maybe it's town maybe it's scum" in 900 words is not a good use of my time

[willow1]

not sure I could argue titus is the scummiest here,

there's definitely a better pick

, but now it looks like people are moving on to others

who are these picks, presumably one is me for my post just now but what else

[willow1]

do you understand why this (that being your first real vote/push, not really having any scummier examples in mind) is a problem to me

[willow1]

there's a reason your third and not first/second but ya, looking forward to what you give on other slots

[willow1]

yeah, i'm scum so go do the deep dive and make the case for it

[willow1]

there is a deep level of irony to complaining about me ignoring vast swaths of ambiguity but you dodging reading slots/isos like the plague even when you're voting the slot

it's almost like i just want you to give solid reads on players instead of just publicly flopping around for a week, whether that is me or somebody else

[willow1]

this whole interaction started because you were suspicious i had you as my 3rd vote pick despite skipping most of your d2

i'm glad you took this time to be more investigative with questioning like the nervousness but fundamentally i'm not really interested in tonally performing for you debating whether i am nervous or not. if you think i'm scummy go find something substantive to ask me, or if you think another player is go there.

if you just want to throw your hands up and say "idk what you are this vote isn't that serious!!" that is the last thing i care about or want to hear

[willow1]

"there are scummier players/better picks than titus [willow's top sr]" where you cannot name those players is a giant red flag

[willow1]

i'm definitely not giving you a chance by slotting you as my third choice of vote. practically holding you at gunpoint.

i don't have an issue with the vote on me i have an issue w/ you not voting most of the game, defending my top sr, and being unable to give better candidates after saying they existed

[willow1]

sounds like i

know

titus isn't the scummiest player here, yet she's my top sr

might be worth investigating idk just spitballing

[willow1]

andante, titus is my, willow's, top scumread, as i have emphasized like 4x. i am fully aware that you don't scumread titus. if "you [willow] know she [titus] is not the scummiest play here", and yet she is in fact my top scumread, this might be something worth investigating for you

titus as much as i want to lecture you on the difference and how to play mafia you can do that on your own, i shouldn't have to, and i'm not coaching someone that has been playing for 8 years

[willow1]

big difference between calling an argument you don't read tvt and having someone as your third vote choice for defending a top sr and not voting anyone all day, not saying my being lazy is perfect but i'm not out here harddefending slots using the argument i didn't read. anything i did not read is null.

you got my free coaching anyway congrats

[willow1]

(and i did read the parts about titus)

[willow1]

I'd go

titus

/vfp/andante with the disclosure that i haven't read andante's posting today

"there are scummier players/better picks than

titus [willow's top sr]"

where you cannot name those players is a giant red flag

not going to pretend i've made a huge case because it's mostly meta, but my point was that perhaps fypov i am a scumslot worth investigating more deeply

[willow1]

sure, might tackle them after work if i feel like it but i'm not really into refuting townwalls

titus next time i'm going to require payment via venmo or cashapp

[willow1]

idrk why you flipped out about how/when you will flip green, hold people accountable, etc when i am literally not voting you lol, in contrast while i am still at e-never at least i had a vote on me and encouraged you to push harder

[willow1]

Spoiler: day 1 sample

I wish I could join a popular wagon but I am just not feeling them, particularly these two.

can you elaborate on those feelings? really curious why you're hesitant. trying to figure out how you're approaching this game because this doesn't seem to line up w/ other games i have spectated

i would dayvig titus if i could, not even remotely trying to use the wagons or vote patterns a divining tool other than this awkward defense of bell (bell should be null at best, but pooky/retti are right on meta. i thought he siteflaked but he's still in for defcon)

ik people had questions for me, will circle back in a sec

I wish I could join a popular wagon but I am just not feeling them, particularly these two.

can you elaborate on those feelings? really curious why you're hesitant. trying to figure out how you're approaching this game because this doesn't seem to line up w/ other games i have spectated

There's too much omgus. Anyone who FoSes anyone else gets an automatic scumread back. Nothing feels like it's honest sorting. (Note: Honest means intellectually honest, not town/scum indicative).

I'm looking for someone with a deep, nuanced, possibly accurate read of the game to be my anchor. I haven't found it yet so I'm going through the game again.

I really like a Dunn scumread based on the vote history but I don't feel strong enough to case him.

this first line is gross. first off, there's an initial scumread before an omgus reaction, but you're treating them equally. second how on earth have you not been able to find a case of honest sorting this game lmfao

second line you are not looking hard enough because there have been many nuanced/deep reads this game: myself, retti, essooa, raya, bear hydra...most of which you've lumped in with the omgus reactions.

finally if you don't have an anchor testing reads/wagons is the way to get one and you're not doing that, not buying this

it's tough to capture in quotes, where sometimes those votes/wagons happen to wind up on scumreads anyway, but take a look at games like flavor leaf vs. hectic, where she happily joins a wagon suggested by FL, and warehouse-13. idk maybe someone in those games can give context b/c i don't really want to quote from games i was actually in

actually after reading this post i would 100% vig her lol

I agree Titus is probably town which means she’s gonna say I suck at working together no matter what despite me in prior games actually being good town and she was in scums pocket so hard I deviated at the very end.

What caused your read change on me?

I’ve had a town read on you.

Your townread is conditional on Dunn because you want me to stop pushing my top scumreads of Cakez and Pooky and consolidate super early.

I am going to be blunt with you.

I am using the Dunn wagon to get reads. Such static reads aren't good. Use the wagon as a way to check your reads rather than supposing you're right. Let yourself and others solve the game over time.

How to host a murder isn't solved round 1.

i mean i literally said they were my top sr like 4x in that conversation just now alone but here's a sample of posts day 1 from when i actually cared about this game

[willow1]

i would really encourage working back over my first few posts of this sequence with this new knowledge in mind

re: 1326 i just spent time talking about esooa, sam, you, and with the carryover read from vfp but ok

this is my updated readslist, ordered t->s (ie. this is a strictly ordered list and you are at bottom of null)

locktown {bear}
very town {retti}
townlean {t3, esooa, sam, flea}
null {whemestar dunn, jjh, penguin, raya, andante}
scumlean: {vfp}
scum: {titus}

[willow1]

again idk why you have this emphasis of hitting back and making these bold gestures (have you ever thought to look outside titus? or is titus the only direction you plan on looking all game?) without stopping to think whether they make sense but u do u

[willow1]

retti am i wrong in thinking a t3 vote is criminally terrible

i had this as probably town but a 5 minute skim says never vote ever

[willow1]

i know everyone is going to be like why is it terrible yada yada but i'd rather just talk to retti for now so no in advance, thanks

[willow1]

my reads haven't changed, just want someone to vig titus, other options (outside of t3) aren't bad, checking in once a day to prod dodge and going back to playing bejeweled 2 deluxe

[willow1]

alrite, fine, i guess u r my little vigchamp, come here

[willow1]

can you be more specific as to why you are heavily opposed to a titus vote flea

[willow1]

the best drunk video game is bejeweled twist

[willow1]

here's some of my quotes on titus, very trimmed so as to be somewhat readable

i would dayvig titus if i could, not even remotely trying to use the wagons or vote patterns a divining tool other than this awkward defense of bell (bell should be null at best, but pooky/retti are right on meta. i thought he siteflaked but he's still in for defcon)

ik people had questions for me, will circle back in a sec

it's tough to capture in quotes, where sometimes those votes/wagons happen to wind up on scumreads anyway, but take a look at games like flavor leaf vs. hectic, where she happily joins a wagon suggested by FL, and warehouse-13. idk maybe someone in those games can give context b/c i don't really want to quote from games i was actually in

actually after reading this post i would 100% vig her lol

I agree Titus is probably town which means she’s gonna say I suck at working together no matter what despite me in prior games actually being good town and she was in scums pocket so hard I deviated at the very end.

What caused your read change on me?

I’ve had a town read on you.

Your townread is conditional on Dunn because you want me to stop pushing my top scumreads of Cakez and Pooky and consolidate super early.

I am going to be blunt with you.

I am using the Dunn wagon to get reads. Such static reads aren't good. Use the wagon as a way to check your reads rather than supposing you're right. Let yourself and others solve the game over time.

How to host a murder isn't solved round 1.

did you expect scumwillow to shove you for your love of vca or something

Yes. Scum Willow would do that. Scum willow would push me knowing our playstyles crash. I don't see that as your rationale for pushing me. Your push is melodramatic and overblown though.

Sure I was wrong on Bell/RMH. Sure I should be investigated because I was wrong.

Your responses to me are out of line proporionally though.

It's quite obvious that Bell was bussed particularly after that gladiate claim. No one thought Bell was living through that. It effectively shut down counter wagons though.

Overall, I think you're town but I'd feel more reassured if you hunted some other slots as well (even if voting me). I'm an easy place to sit at the moment. Scum!you is capable of just making noise about me alone and then just going whoops.

exactly zero of my vote on you depends on bell's flip.

i am arguing that you fundamentally do not do things like hold off voting wagons while not having a solid footing of the game to work with, and that you would instead have been happy to throw your vote around readily just to see what happens

you were not trying to read into the bell wagon as it was developing and there's little to no evidence you're using the flip at all even now

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Raya36
Raya36 (4): jjh927, Titus, Retti, Bamboozle
samantha97 (3): VFP, Romance, willow1
Romance (2): Bell, WhemeStar
Retti (1): Flea The Magician,
Titus (1): T3
Enchant (1): Dunnstral

Not Voting (1): samantha97

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

Let's look at Raya's wagon. Retti is likely town and we're assuming he's town for purposes of this exercise. JJH encouraged the Raya vote based on the case I made. I don't think he spends his little capital doing that if he knows Bell/RMH is scum unless Raya also is. So we can rule out jjh scum, raya town.

That means if scum were trying to save Bell by sheeping my wrong case, it would have to be Bamboozle. If my Raya case is right, the Raya wagon is all town.

Tldr: One of Raya/Bam should flip scum.

I'm also assuming singleball.

this is the main wagon analysis you do, on the Raya wagon you started, where one of bam/raya will flip scum.

you've backed off of raya citing the romance kill changing your view.

i don't see any attempt to analyze the bell wagon, either before or after the gladiate, and dunn making a snarky remark on two town prs dying is aimless commentary and not scum indicative

i don't find basic reactions & vca with little to no depth town ai sorry jjh

[willow1]

1198 has some depth in its analysis but still doesn't do it for me

excuses to vote for the lowest hanging fruit on the wagon are pretty yikes to me

[willow1]

i have seen a lot of recent titus lol, and that wall uses recent town titus in two different games as an example of why that day 1 wagon avoidance was bizarre in comparison

[willow1]

i feel decent about it still but using it on another scumread is p. safe retti

[willow1]

poggers xD

[willow1]

given that we're on odd numbers w/ an unknown # of vig shots/other night death mechanics I'd rather vote today but am not super opposed to a no elim. reaction was decent.

[willow1]

titus could literally be the only maskless vt in the game and it wouldn't make a difference i don't understand what the obsession is with people and publicly outing they have a mask

[willow1]

samantha is saying she doesn't believe your claim and doesn't think there are vts w/o masks at all, and therefore wants someone else to vouch they exist

[willow1]

well, how strongly she feels that is ambiguous, but the possibility you're scum lying and there are no maskless VTs in the game is the concern she's raising

[willow1]

well that's useful to know

i take it back thx sam

[willow1]

you can blame me tbh tho i am leaning towards elimming still

[willow1]

given that we're on odd numbers w/ an unknown # of vig shots/other night death mechanics I'd rather vote today but am not super opposed to a no elim. reaction was decent.

literally nothing has changed titus

[willow1]

Oh ok, Willow said that before the duel. Got it

no. the post i just quoted, which is the one titus was looking for, is very obviously after the duel for several reasons

[willow1]

no, but in the post I quoted i called it decent in a way that heavily implied it was +town. this is both a correct interpretation and very reasonable for her to remember it as.

[willow1]

dunn I do not know why you act like letting deadline pass w/o majority is not an option

there are a few different ways it can resolve but intentional tie/no majority are both plausible no elim scenarios

[willow1]

i fully recognize it might in fact be impossible

you're acting like it's a no so we should stop suggesting it, not acting like it's unclear

[willow1]

VOTE: no fade

[willow1]

i should not be in that poe if this flips scum lol, if it flips town sure

dunno why t3 claimed an ambiguous pr but sure im fine going here

VOTE: andante

[willow1]

I don't see why T3 fakes a guilty here

cause he's likely a rolecop who knows I'm doc, sees votes already on me. claims he had me guilty long ago, yet never said anything? riiight

did you read the day 1 flip

[willow1]

idk if i townread them but the vfp/titus claims are very believable to me btw

[willow1]

i mean yeah i haven't done shit but i am def not w/ andante if u look at d2 lol

[willow1]

I don't see why T3 fakes a guilty here

cause he's likely a rolecop who knows I'm doc, sees votes already on me. claims he had me guilty long ago, yet never said anything? riiight

did you read the day 1 flip

2 people died. bruh. I am the doc. like, let me die tonight then???

bell/robert was the mafia rolecop unless you think they have two

[willow1]

the red flag is him not claiming his actual pr to make it unambiguously tvs, he doesn't need to claim how it's gated but i want at least "yes this is unambiguously tvs" before we flip this, whether that's a roleclaim, track to not-bearhugs, or not-doctor result can remain ambiguous so we don't get some dumb claim tomorrow

P-Edit: ok u dont have to fullclaim but please confirm unambiguous tvs