DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[VFP]

Hello!

Any Tldr before I read up?

[VFP]

no change aside from noting the VFP replacement which ahdnt' changed the read there because VFP's entrance is dead null

I won't be catching up until tonight. If you want me to look into people day 1 sure, let me know.
Other than that I'm going to attempt to coast day 1 once I get a few reads.

[VFP]

Et and Joqiza, who's scum?

[VFP]

You too Dragon. Who's scum?

[VFP]

I dont know. I haven't read anything yet and want some where to start.

[VFP]

Pooky seems off to me.
Excluding the all caps since NAI, their approach to the game pings me. Its as if Pooky is just trying to spam the game to look productive.

T3 is town lean
Et Al town lean.

Thats where I'm at. And I gave my Defcon 4 choice in so I'm not sure if I was holding everyone up or not.

[VFP]

VOTE: mastina

[VFP]

VFP Flip for the audience!

Need to wait for the lim!

[VFP]

i’ll try to post less in the future, sorry

just be you who cares what others think

Scum care.

[VFP]

If mastina flips town I think Cephrir has a chance for scum.

[VFP]

If mastina flips town I think Cephrir has a chance for scum.

Why?

The way he voted and already trying to add focus on LLD being the main pusher ready to shift blame tomorrow.

[VFP]

Cephir’s actions don’t read to me that way at all

It's something I'll consider on a flip.
The vote change was pretty quick. I don't think a bus vote though, more like an opportunity.

But I'm okay with mastina as scum so Cephir will not have to threat today.

[VFP]

Also Cephrir we are damn well going to hallow this ground, just you watch!

I'm unsure what this means but am inspired anyway!

VOTE: church

VOTE: mastina

was thinking about doing this anyway

vote: Mastina

Trust me guys. Something something 13 posts of garbage about meta and how certain I am Mastina is scum something something joining games with friends who won't kill me something something

Yeeting Mastina is good for the health of the game. Get her outta here. Dueces.

@LDD

[VFP]

how about you attack me for shifting blame when i shift blame and not because your crystal ball predicts it

Mastina scum I actually like the swap and position there.
Thats why I I'm giving my magic 8 ball a good ole shake

[VFP]

If ur ok w/ mastina being scum vote it.

I refuse to ever vote here.

[VFP]

Why the fuck does everyone use LDD.
It's
Lady
Lambda
Delta.

Anyway. What you have shown here is an RVS joke vote for pressurr purposes to respond to DV.

Then a real vote following my vote because they had a scum read there.

Do you see otherwise?

Ah yes, the RVS get out of jail card. Not the moment after vote of course.
I already said what I see on a town flip. If you are so confident in a mastina scum flip then you should have no worry about how I see this vote.
Interesting.

[VFP]

If ur ok w/ mastina being scum vote it.

I refuse to ever vote here.

Why?

Because i'm happy with my vote already!

[VFP]

Do you think me so arrogant that I can't concede worlds where I am wrong?

Also logic doesn't work that way? Like. I can have a logical look forward without conceding my current beliefs or position.

And I find it fascinating that you seem to imply I can't have both.

I see it more as confidence than arrogance but I'm going to be biased here.
You can have both confidence and doubt. Were you showing evidence of this? Nope. Are you now? Plausible.

Interesting that you find it fascinating though.

[VFP]

I think that's 10/13

I don't intend to vote for them

Why?

[VFP]

If you didn't make the cut, I'm sorry. But you still have between page 50 and 60 to make it onto my list so there's a chance!

This seems a scam, my last post was page 49.

[VFP]

Standardly it's the bad guys that shoot first and the Americans who retaliate.

[VFP]

VOTE: Marry

NEXT!

[VFP]

Looked to be trying to prevent the mastina wagon, and now trying to buddy up to obvious town.

[VFP]

VOTE: unvote

Now I am scared

Because of Samantha in particular?

[VFP]

Scared of your naked vote actually anime Kupo.

People called you out as sus end of day.

My read on Mastina was wrong so I reevaluate.

So what's your read on Samantha?

[VFP]

We should probably be killing VFP he's thread avoiding on purpose.

Ew, your one of those players...
I've posted in a game that finished today. It's a busy day and I'm not here to post on demand for you.

That aside.
Why is Marry not eliminated yet?

[VFP]

Why should she be eliminated?

Because they're scum.
Yesterday, they came in, soft defended mastina and then backed off from the smallest amount of heat.
If you're going to defend someone, you stick by it or agree with the reasons given to you.
Comes into the thread today and tries to buddy up to LLD.

[VFP]

i feel like marry would've been more collected there as scum tbh

It's pretty hard to stay collected in that situation with fake defends.
Any experience to share that suggest why you think this?

[VFP]

VFP, assume Marry is scum. Why does scum Marry fake claim eavesdropper multiple times?

Well since mastina was eavesdropper , it's probable scum discussed and wanted to use it with no CC risk.
I didn't take the claims I saw as hard claim though. mastina flipping eavesdropper negates that as any argument here.

[VFP]

well i've seen her play mafia before and she knows how to bus. actually she's hardbussed several times before and she rarely defends her partners as directly as she did w/ mastina against LLD. i think her frustration with LLD was genuine too altho the frustration is less AI.

also like i said earlier i really doubt the mastina wagon was some big shock to scum. there was a fair amount of pressure on her the day before. also LLD wasn't even the first vote on the mastina wagon. she was the one that actually effected the lim but i believe she was the third or fourth vote. so the wheels were already starting to spin at that point.

Care to share the game?

[VFP]

“ If you're going to defend someone, you stick by it or agree with the reasons given to you.” THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED? are we reading the same game

vote: mastina

if this is scum i knew it all along and did not defend it in the slightest, and lady is my new idol
if this is town i knew it all along and am the best reader in the game, and request applause

This is not someone who believes that mastina is town. This is not someone defending a town read.
This is someone knowing that mastina is flipping scum and trying to use humour prep the buddy up.

[VFP]

EM was nuked we cant share the game but i in fact do love to bus partners the second its viable for me, ill just confirm it. use it if u want

well i've seen her play mafia before and she knows how to bus. actually she's hardbussed several times before and she rarely defends her partners as directly as she did w/ mastina against LLD. i think her frustration with LLD was genuine too altho the frustration is less AI.

also like i said earlier i really doubt the mastina wagon was some big shock to scum. there was a fair amount of pressure on her the day before. also LLD wasn't even the first vote on the mastina wagon. she was the one that actually effected the lim but i believe she was the third or fourth vote. so the wheels were already starting to spin at that point.

Care to share the game?

LMFAO i can't literally my whole site (EpicMafia) got nuked and i have no records

on god though it happened i'll cite the games from memory:
- marry bussing Luciokek in Werewolves vs. Mafia 1.5
- marry hardbussing dia d1 of some game nbt hosted
- marry hardbussing Flygon slot d1 of the game I hosted before SPF subbed in for Flygon

prolly others that i can't remember. i actually can't prove it but i think you'll believe me, it would be absurd for me to be lying about this i think

That's fair enough. I'm not going to argue true or not, but I'm also not going to change my read as different situations matter.
I'll consider it though.

[VFP]

I don’t think so VFP. Marry was clearly joking saying stuff like “big butts”.
Scum also seemed okay or at least not resisting the Mastina wagon.
I don’t think that scum would bring attention to themselves while knowing a buddy is about to flip that role.
I could buy terrorist maybe but I doubt it.

I don’t see what Marty was doing with Mastina good scum play

So the difference I see here id the lack of people posting from the begining of Vax voting mastina, to LLD and Marry.
After this situation and the way the conversation went, you are right, scum are not going to back mastina there. But I'm talking about the situation before the nail in the coffin.

[VFP]

yeah i mean it was a joke and i clarified no one should interact with it or take it seriously in the next post... didnt know mastina of all people was the eavesdropper

Okay. This doesn't change much.
Maybe going for the town credit, I'm not sure what the argument as a whole is here? I'm also not sure to what the reasoning was to claim it. mastina flipped Eavesdropper, you claimed it (even if a joke).
There is no reason that this should be considered as town.

[VFP]

look i'm gonna be honest

i feel uncomfortable knighting for marry so hard and i think if she's town she will be able to demonstrate she's town on her own

i think she's just town who thought the mastina wagon was weird, tried to engage, engaged with LLD, realized what LLD was saying, then went "welp" and realized she was boutta look scummy af if mastina did end up being mafia

it's just my 2c

I would believe this more if Marry still didn't believe their town read.
Realising what LLD is saying would be a response of "Yeah mastina has a good chance as scum". Not "what i've said about mastina's reads list stands" just before voting there.

I get it probably just looks like a small petty reason, but it was a small reason that made me happy with mastina scum as well.
It's plausible I'm wrong, something just doesn't add with the responses.
Either Marry did cave in and just go along with LLD or Marry didn't change their read and went along with LLD.
I feel the vote would have more confidence if the second one. Even more so how Marry is being described.

[VFP]

This is the first reference to Marry pretending to be eavesdropper.

This is during the time Mastina was picking up votes based on the VC.
What is the scum purpose of this?
I agree just because they claimed they aren’t town. They’re town because of Mastina’s flip and no scum benefit

Town credit, going for the not knowing? I don't know Marry's line of thinking here.
Why is this a town reason? Keeping in mind I'm not the one argueing that this is why they are scum. I'm argueing that because they are scum it's a scum reason for doing so.

[VFP]

for doing so.” so you... conf-biased yourself into me being mafia so anything i do is scummy? ok dude just nuke me then i dont wanna play this back and forth with you if thats how it is..?

Okay then, tell me who I should consider as scum since this back and fourth is actually pointless.
And who do you think was scum bussing mastina?

[VFP]

hmm

maybe it will help if i kinda share my perspective

i basically don't know any of you other than marry, i don't play here very much. actually i've been doing this thing where i play on different sites w/ different communities because i've been trying to better figure out tells that transcend personal meta

when playing in different communities for the first time i've noticed there's sort of a "web" of meta that already exists among people who know each other

when a bunch of people on d1 start SR'ing another person for meta reasons, it's often a decent climate for a scum flip

even if i can't see too well myself, i can sort of read the gamestate in this fashion

i believe marry's attitude may have come from a similar place here. personally i wasn't 100% sure on mastina, but i did think the atmosphere was conducive for her to flip scum because of the people who knew her SRing her. i think marry had similar comments and i think this could explain her position on mastina's wagon while independently TRing her.

does that make any sense @VFP?

Okay, maybe I find this harder to understand as nothing was meta for me yesterday.
But I think I get what you are trying to say? Meta normally suggests alignment in situations like that to players that know them, so you know it's probably a good lead, but don't see the scum side yourself?

My opinion doesn't change even with this information though.

[VFP]

vfp ive spent this day arguing with you i havent read for scum and i want to nuke, you’re the one leading on me
gimme awhile to look at the actual gamestate, im mobile and mothersdaying

I would hardly say this day, it's been about an hour.
I'm going to bed now though but I'm willing to listen to who you think is scum tomorrow evening.

[VFP]

Use it?

Townslip for not knowing what the eavesdropper is??

No it was bad phrasing. I meant use it as a claim.

VFP almost felt over fixated on mastina fpossibly flipping scum which pings me as slightly busy, and based on play alone lean scum

Why wouldn't I be?
Mastina said that I was scum for playing differently.
I have 1 game with mastina where day 1 I hadn't posted much in that game either. This read from mastina was just a fake attempt considering my play is no different to Electorial Mafia day 1 in the sense of content or activity (at least enough to not warrant a scum read based on it).

but I've some reason to suspect the slot from the replacement anyway in that this VFP is not the town VFP that I've seen before.

Fake meta is always a scum tell.

[VFP]

Robert crumbed (A bit more than a crumb I guess) as a tracker in my last game.
They flipped VT.

I could see scum Robert using this tactic just as much as town though.

[VFP]

I dont see scum Robert playing like this.
Seems to be frustrated town more than caught scum.
The problem is I don't scum read Nexus either.
I only really want to vote in these 2 if the deadline is approaching.

T3 isn't a town read of mine yet which could imply scum here, but I want another day to take the read.

Dragon pings me and I could lim here.
Outside if that I think better wagons are on Deathnote and Koto (since no one is interested in Marry today)

[VFP]

Whays even a case on Nexus here?

[VFP]

I don’t think there is one

Then that suggests it's a bad vote to have.

Titus is leading the wagon.
Now there's a couple things here with Titus

1) since the vote Titus isn't addressing the reason for it, other than it being obvious. Also seems to be showing focus outside of Nexus more than on Nexus. I'd like to think as of the leading wagons town Titus would be pushing this more rather than willing to settle on a Robert vote if a wagon grows.
2) I'm not sure why Titus is defending me as town here as I'm not playing as I standardly would in games I've been in with Titus.

@Titus

I'm pretty oblivious here, can you go over your Nexus read for me?

[VFP]

Someone asked me for a Nexus case.

Show me Nexus hunting scum. I'll wait.

It's not the most rock solid case but it's good enough for now.

Why would this be the obvious reason to why you are voting Nexux?
This is where it doesn't click, yesterday Nexus looks to be scum hunting. Today, not so much but I don't read their posts as particular scummy in anyway.

You're argument is from Nexus yesterday yet this seems a quick look into their recent posts to form an argument.

I'm going to need a bit more than that.

[VFP]

not me

I would say you as a yes. You have only voiced popular or obvious opinions so far.
What stage are you even up to?

[VFP]

I was scum. Sad times!

The activity comments were pretty meh since I've geneiunly been inactive site wide due to issues outside of MS. But be it you get scum, just for the wrong reasons.

GL everyone and enjoy the nuking!

Also for the record I selected every role in the game as I didn't realise you could just try for a few

[VFP]

ok the guy is an idiot let's read his ISO for associative.

Let's try not making personal attacks.
I've literally done nothing to warrant that from you.