Situation Room [Game Over!]

[Yuri Gagarin]

[Yuri Gagarin]

Ahh fuck, wait

[Yuri Gagarin]

[Yuri Gagarin]

That’s better

VOTE: bingle

[Yuri Gagarin]

probably a dweeb who thinks that "astronaut" is a better term than "cosmonaut"

[Yuri Gagarin]

maybe bingle really is scum

[Yuri Gagarin]

actually

VOTE: GL

[Yuri Gagarin]

I let you have that nsg, just know that

[Yuri Gagarin]

Im interested in ur bingle take yuri

not explaining yet

want the bingle himself to turn up

[Yuri Gagarin]

oka you getting involved in me trying to sort somebody else is profoundly unhelpful

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri have you played with me before? I don't care who you are I just wanna know if you've been in a game with me previously

Yes, we've played before more than once

[Yuri Gagarin]

I've never got to be the one who yeeted you before tho, so that's an exciting new thing to look forward to

[Yuri Gagarin]

right, and I'm telling you that I'm not interested into getting into it with you until I get to talk to bingle directly

[Yuri Gagarin]

ehhhh, we'll see

[Yuri Gagarin]

right, I'm gonna go get my tan on in my Black Sea state-provided Dacha bc I'm a fuckin' boss

be back later you rent-paying capitalist swines

[Yuri Gagarin]

sup nerds

[Yuri Gagarin]

If it’s who I think it is yes I would very much appreciate Yuri being here.

Yes that’s a targeted guilt trip.

wow, I can't believe u would do me like this

(also I have a guess on you just from your avi and user lmao)

[Yuri Gagarin]

The biggest danger we face is the potential for scum to control multiple hoods and wreck us out of no where. Putting a bunch of LHF into a hood means we probably eliminate mostly from that hood and the number of people in the hood goes down quickly, resulting in a hood that is liable to be easily turned into a scum majority.

Furthermore, separating out all of the scummy people into one group makes it really hard for not scummy people to interact with and read them, so your utr vig is largely blindshooting. It also doesn’t address that your utr pool being infiltrated is extra dangerous given they are liable to be a point of contact with another thread with minimal oversight on what they say.

You are correct that we don’t want to have a sixth hood.

gonna start here:

bingle, this sounds a lot like bullshit

how is one hood getting turned into scum maj likely to lead to scum controlling multiple hoods

like, scum gaining control of one hood is almost functionally equivalent to scum getting a NK but if presumably the plan on the hoods is going to be to have multiple channels of communication redundancy around so that one or two people don't have a monopoly on inter-hood communications, and if a scum-controlled hood started using their kill on strongly TR players it wouldn't be hard to work out which is was and to vig the shit out of that hood with the other ones

however, also, mechanics is fucking boring and it's beyond depressing that despite like a 2 day break off it's still being discussed

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: Yuri

bell threatened by my chad energy

[Yuri Gagarin]

the chad soviet cosmonaut vs the virgin capitalist astronaut

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri is probably town rn.

how did you get to this so early

[Yuri Gagarin]

If it’s who I think it is yes I would very much appreciate Yuri being here.

Yes that’s a targeted guilt trip.

wow, I can't believe u would do me like this

(also I have a guess on you just from your avi and user lmao)

I actually slipped you goon.

It’s so you though. Hi!!!

*checks activity list*

called it

hi!! idk why you bother alting when ur so obvious with all of them honestly

(we r excepting that one alt, u know which one I mean)

[Yuri Gagarin]

put me in a hood with other people who are down to vig everyone who's talking mechanics still

[Yuri Gagarin]

Alternatively, I guess it could just be scum!Gamma not knowing how to engage with “stronger” players on his wagon yet but that more than anything is where I feel I’d be uncharitable. But it was the thing that pinged me in this game so far.

Take a quick look at my join date and tell me whether you think is valid

I mean based on what I remember of your scumgame I wouldn't say it's invalid

[Yuri Gagarin]

Lol yuri nvm its not menalque

can't believe you would accuse me of being a tryhard nerd, smh

[Yuri Gagarin]

That’s better

VOTE: bingle

maybe bingle really is scum

actually

VOTE: GL

Im interested in ur bingle take yuri

not explaining yet

want the bingle himself to turn up

This sequence.

what about it

[Yuri Gagarin]

who wouldn't trust the winner of the Hero of the Soviet Union and Order of Lenin awards

[Yuri Gagarin]

ydrasse were you trying to play differently to usual prior to outing ?

[Yuri Gagarin]

Did you get blessings from Karl Marx though

daddy Marx came to me as a vision in the night to tell me how proud he was of me for owning the American Space Program and all the nazis in it

[Yuri Gagarin]

Gamma at that point I believe had three votes; he engaged with one with sarcasm but did not make an attempt to really communicate with the people on him. Instead he sees someone who expressed a want to vote him and voted there, which is... confusing to me. I would want to understand more why a small wagon had formed on me even if it’s early, and I was imposing that onto Gamma as well. Engaging with someone on the merits of their posting style felt to me like it was a veiled attempt to dissuade Dusa from that sentiment in an aggressive manner.

Alternatively, I guess it could just be scum!Gamma not knowing how to engage with “stronger” players on his wagon yet but that more than anything is where I feel I’d be uncharitable. But it was the thing that pinged me in this game so far.

You’re correct that I’ve invented motivation though, but that’s just the point of scumhunting I think.

Thanks for this reply, I see where you're coming from a bit better. I think we may have a clash of playstyle/philosophy here, IMO usually (but especially early game) you gotta just take what people give you at face value, if you invent motivations/narratives for why someone's play is scummy you can almost always come up with a plausible scum-agenda explanation for a lot of town play and IMO that's what scum use to their advantage to push fake scumreads

another question, how likely do you think it is that all five players who voted Gamma are town?

dislike this from GL but not totally sure why

not so much for the specific content as I dislike the pattern of interaction?

initial pings were that his reasons for the hypo vote were bc of "feeling reachy" when it was like 6 pages in and

any

substantiation of a read atp is going to be reachy if it's going beyond "something seems off about X" and it just feels like the immediate backoff from that to it being a "clash of playstyle/philosophy" just not what I'd expect from GL who iirc is reasonable with people but also tends to want to interrogate things when they ping him

so the handwaveyness is maybe what's bothering me here rather than him like, examining further whether he thinks hypo is doing what he says he thinks scum often try to do re inventing narratives/motivations

[Yuri Gagarin]

solo is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Yes but the problem is that it's blinding

would you say that you're blinded by the light? or perhaps that you're drowning in the night?

[Yuri Gagarin]

eh I think I like solo for a glorious revolutionary

[Yuri Gagarin]

ydrasse were you trying to play differently to usual prior to outing ?

Playing as a standard fare Ydrasse-alt. More caps.

Now that I’m outted though, carry me.

mmm

you feel a little stilted in your initial posting/self-serious compared to what I'd expect of the ~pure vibes~ town!ydrasse we all know and love

might just be a tonal thing due to the Proper Typing for once but not sure

what did you think of GL's lil interaction w you earlier?

[Yuri Gagarin]

did you learn how to play scum yet bell?

[Yuri Gagarin]

meh idk how I feel about bell yet other than his posts are still somehow more boring than mechtalk half the time

[Yuri Gagarin]

@bingle what's your read on dann?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I would be down to wagon Dannflor until the lion gets back

VOTE: dannflor

[Yuri Gagarin]

I mean there's a few places I could go but they feel more like lhf and that's not a terrible place to end up if everyone towntells but for now it feels unproductive

he feels off? both in the being more assertive thing but then also in seeming to drift away from that in ISO as I get further down, and some of the stuff in his big reads post just feels lazy -> GE wagon having scum, DGB townread, the solo-performative comment

[Yuri Gagarin]

Also, I’m not scum partners with yuri. Just an FYI for down the road to save myself the trouble.
Though the tunnels by will probably remove most of that doubt whenever people are ready to flip him.

it's funny you think I'm getting flipped this game bruh

[Yuri Gagarin]

p sure my team are gonna target elsewhere so I'd say I'm safe

[Yuri Gagarin]

why do all of your posts make me feel like I don't need my sleep meds anymore

[Yuri Gagarin]

i like dusa

[Yuri Gagarin]

yo solo wanna join me on dannflor ? it's what the people's republic would want

[Yuri Gagarin]

well, that answers that

[Yuri Gagarin]

why @oka

[Yuri Gagarin]

I don't think the 10% of my posts or whatever it is where I've complained about mechtalk qualifies as ad nauseum

but it is boring and makes the game unfun *shrug*

I think my approach to the mech stuff is going to be to find someone I solidly TR who seems competent on mechstuff and then back whatever they push for

[Yuri Gagarin]

UNown towny

[Yuri Gagarin]

I'm assuming that there is already a viable mechtalk strat that's been proposed and endlessly debating the merits of one vs another is going to have the principal effect of melting my remaining braincells

[Yuri Gagarin]

what do you mean by "consistent pacing"?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I don't get why you TR something that's just derivative of how much time they have available to play

like that feels NAI to me not knowing anything else about them and idg how you're going further than that without meta

[Yuri Gagarin]

Alternatively, I guess it could just be scum!Gamma not knowing how to engage with “stronger” players on his wagon yet but that more than anything is where I feel I’d be uncharitable. But it was the thing that pinged me in this game so far.

Take a quick look at my join date and tell me whether you think is valid

I mean based on what I remember of your scumgame I wouldn't say it's invalid

any comment on this @gamma

[Yuri Gagarin]

tentatively liking FG but I have no baseline for him which makes me less-than-super-confident in that until there's more actual game to look at

[Yuri Gagarin]

you should vote dannflor with me

let me carry you, young one

[Yuri Gagarin]

you

[Yuri Gagarin]

I mean there's a few places I could go but they feel more like lhf and that's not a terrible place to end up if everyone towntells but for now it feels unproductive

he feels off? both in the being more assertive thing but then also in seeming to drift away from that in ISO as I get further down, and some of the stuff in his big reads post just feels lazy -> GE wagon having scum, DGB townread, the solo-performative comment

[Yuri Gagarin]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12837776#p12837776]post 798[/url], Dannflor"]@Yuri, can you explain what your deal is with Bingle now and why on earth you seemingly just dropped trying to engage with or pressure him? That feels like a thread that got cut off very abruptly.[/quote]

Mmm, i guess so, but you’re misreading the situation

I find bingle a hard read generally and this game in particular I think he’s leant more into the mech side of things than into trying to hard solve the game — how much of that is oka’s fault for incessantly going on about it is unclear, but either way I was hoping that by prodding at him it would lead to some sort of response esp after he completely blanked me entering with a vote on him (which isn’t something I’d expect him to take seriously but which I felt like would potentially pique his interest)

Im not really sure that it’s helped that much bc I can’t parse his reaction — like, he followed up on the whole thing once but then didn’t prod me for anything more once I brushed it off. I’m inclined to say that him sort-of-following-up-but-not-really is +scum for him, but then that doesn’t fit with some of the other stuff like the very early and still unexplained prob town read on me, which I don’t really see why he bothers with it if he’s not trying to pocket me and the rest of his behaviour doesn’t seem like he’s trying to pocket me really

Also I don’t think he’s figured out who I am and that makes me think a pocket on me would be substantially lower priority for him than normal

[Yuri Gagarin]

I think Oka made a great point about the inconsistency in attitude towards mech talk, I also think jumping in to argue with Bingle about mech talk also feels strange given they claimed to not be interested in it. I don't grok why they suspect Dann or are voting there. I also don't really love their explanation of the suspicion on me but frankly I gotta go and don't have time to collect my thoughts and express them neatly yet, will do that when I return but I do want to push this wagon along

The mech post from bingle was the first thing I saw after arriving back in thread p much, and I wanted to hop on the first post. Trying to characterise that at being at odds with wanting to avoid mech talk *in general* is a reach. What doesn’t make sense about my push on Dann, given that I explained it what was bothering me about him?

And like no shit you don’t like my reasons for pushing you lol, but if you wanna explain more or how this jives with “I can see where you’re coming from here” in 753 be my guest

[Yuri Gagarin]

Feels significantly like you’re looking for a way onto my wagon there, GL

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: GL

[Yuri Gagarin]

i lost myself in the train of thought but the specific reason why i think its contradictory is that someone who shuts down mech talk is not someone who claims to will sheep someone else's mech plan later i think. i think you just ignore mech talk in that case.

It’s not contradictory but *shrug*

I hate mechtalk, I think it’s boring and kills the game, it kills my motivation to play when the thread is drowning in it, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t acknowledge the importance of not playing a mechanically awful strategy, and while I’m not that interested in engaging in it much, that doesn’t mean I’m not able to evaluate the relative merits of different plans/that I won’t make some effort to try and follow someone who has spent time trying to work it out

What I don’t want is that continuing through the middle of the day when that time is far better spent on scumhunting and actually sorting people. Mechtalk can be saved for EoD when there’s a clear D1 lim and the question is how to organise votes on it

[Yuri Gagarin]

Not particularly interested in confirming who I am but i will say that guess is incorrect. Probably won’t address it more

Would you disagree wi try my characterisation if you as having been more interested in engaging in mechtalk than in solving so far?

[Yuri Gagarin]

Eh. If anything I’ve been specifically disinterested in mechtalk.

I could see why you think I’m being less than solvey from the outside, but that’s pretty par for the course for my style of solving. What do you make of my conclusions in my response to dann?

eh, i think you’re oka take is basically fine, agree that overall he’s town but think dann has some of the reasons back to front like the mediator/reasonableness thing. If there’s someone on scum trying to play the deepwolf role and I’m off ase with my own reads then oka is probably the first place I’d look, especially if he tries to take control of the UTR group should that happen

I agree that gamma is towntelling but more for dann’s reasoning there than yours; think gamma tends to sound *very* stilted as scum normally and i think his FG interactions have felt natural in a way that he’d struggle to replicate as scum

**

for you, i find your entire approach to Dann here weird, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Dann isn’t someone I think of as having strong reads, certainly not the the extent that he should be left alone to work, and given your familiarity with him I also find it off that you’re not interested in pressing on any of the difference he’s showing here vs recent games

I also think he’s being inconsistent in a way that’s still bothering me in that it’s like he can’t pick a tonal approaxh and is flitting back and forth between his standard deepwolf charm approach and the more assertive harder look which I don’t think I’ve ever seen from him before

I don’t feel like the two of you are s/s really but i feel like one of you is likely scum who’s working the other, just not too sure which way round yet. Currently leaning Dann as the scum for reasons aforementioned and also I think ydra is town

[Yuri Gagarin]

Trust:
Bell
Dannflor
Bingle
Dusa

Don't Trust:
Cupcake
Yuri
Hypo

ok, y

[Yuri Gagarin]

for you, i find your entire approach to Dann here weird, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Dann isn’t someone I think of as having strong reads, certainly not the the extent that he should be left alone to work, and given your familiarity with him I also find it off that you’re not interested in pressing on any of the difference he’s showing here vs recent games

I also think he’s being inconsistent in a way that’s still bothering me in that it’s like he can’t pick a tonal approaxh and is flitting back and forth between his standard deepwolf charm approach and the more assertive harder look which I don’t think I’ve ever seen from him before

it's true my usual vector of getting playing town is ability to get town read, my reads are inconsistent at best

regarding the second point, what you're seeing as inconsistency is most likely my inability to hard commit to the more assertive style because uh, I've never done it before

What did you see from Hypo/Ydra that you town read?

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

mmm, okay, like I can see how it could be that I'm reading into you not really being used to playing like that and defaulting back into what seems natural, I've had that when I've been trying out a different style before

I liked some of her posts when catching up (had to go back and check but I think it was like 315 and the couple after that that rung to me as a town way of thinking about what was happening) but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't largely her reaction to realising who I am where I think she would be uh

significantly less enthusiastic about realising that I'm in the game if she were scum and probably working me more than she actually is? like she was cheery about it but I don't feel like she's been playing around me at all and that reads as +town for her

[Yuri Gagarin]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

but also people in general seem to have bigger expectations than I think is realistic, regarding both my scum and town games so I don't actually know how my read strength is perceived by bingle

I don't think I'm gonna give particularly more useful or AI content if I'm "left alone" as town versus pushed though

and I don't handle pushes as scum super well historically sooooo

the meta read is off at best

This is partly what’s bothering me about you both

Idk I’m now starting to swing towards bingle being more off but your pattern of interaction seems very different to how I know you to play in relation to each other based on relatively recent experience

Sorry to be so weird about phrasing but I’m just not particularly in the mood to out, i wanted to have a more chill game than usual

[Yuri Gagarin]

I liked some of her posts when catching up (had to go back and check but I think it was like 315 and the couple after that that rung to me as a town way of thinking about what was happening) but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't largely her reaction to realising who I am where I think she would be uh

significantly less enthusiastic about realising that I'm in the game if she were scum and probably working me more than she actually is? like she was cheery about it but I don't feel like she's been playing around me at all and that reads as +town for her

This might be more convincing if I knew who you were. (I'm not asking you to out, just saying)

I do read scum!ydrasse as usually very pockety and she has not been thus far this game, so that part makes sense, and I suppose her not immediately following you onto me adds onto your point about not playing around you. But I also think she's self-aware enough to not go for the same vector of play every single game and the content she has posted has felt somewhere between stilted and forced

She's just passive this game, is the best way I can describe it

I can’t say more than I think her passivity is very much not game related or AI

Also yea, I’m obviously aware that my secret alting uh, diminishes my ability to be convincing in terms of meta (at least in a “she is town and I will literally stake my entire credibility for the game on it” — not there we’re there yet in this game, but I’ve reached that level of certainty on her before)

And idk there’s something to the “scum wouldn’t approach things in the same way every game” but equally ydra’s been winning quite a lot as scum and having v strong games so her mixing that up to pre-emptively avoid getting caught for meta seems... unlikely, at the very least

[Yuri Gagarin]

some things have happened in my personal life and I don't know when I'll be back or capable of playing

I don't want to rep out on principle, do what you will

[Yuri Gagarin]

Hi, I'm back, things in my personal life have been more or less stabilised since yesterday but I wanted to take an extra day to try and figure out what's going on with me this game

[Yuri Gagarin]

I'm finding it very weird that it feels like my scumreads are trying to work with me and that all my town reads seem to think I'm scum lol

[Yuri Gagarin]

but it's not easy to put those two things together in a way that produces a like, convincing answer on what to do here. not sure if I need to try to reset my reads and I've just been off-base all day, or if I am on target but have just been doing a terrible job of selling it/making myself clearly town to those who need to see it

[Yuri Gagarin]

hi oka, thanks, glad to be back

[Yuri Gagarin]

can you try to run me through what your objection was to me again? something about my position on mechanics being contradictory to my actions because I engaged with bingle/said I wanted to sheep someone on mechanics later?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I guess my two questions are firstly (1) why do you think it's contradictory for me to both want to shut down mechtalk and to say that I want to sheep a townread on it later? like I feel like your reason in 758 is ascribing thoughts to me that I just don't have and idk why you're doing that as opposed to the opposite. talking specifically about the "something you say to look townie"... like no, that's just where my head was at. and secondly regarding that same post is that while I suppose I get you seeing me not wanting mechtalk and going "yeah this is something I've seen scum do before" but it seems like a flawed basis for a read given that yes, I'd be saying that if I were scum, but I'm saying it now as town because I just have an intense apathy towards mechtalk

the other thing is that I don't really see how (2) the fact I'm being contradictory to your eyes leads you to me being scum? like fine, maybe it is hypocritical for me to take that position (still don't think it is, but let's say I can't sell you on that) -- I don't get from like 759 why this leads you into thinking I'm scum?

[Yuri Gagarin]

Can we lim me tomorrow

[Yuri Gagarin]

Replace outs ruin the integrity of a game piece by piece

[Yuri Gagarin]

Anyway, I currently don’t care about this game, my level of enjoyment is at 0% and I have no intention of actually doing anything as it continues

If I feel differently I might show up, if not good luck

[Yuri Gagarin]

Consider this the equivalent of my prod dodge for the next 48 hrs if hammer hasn’t dropped by then

[Yuri Gagarin]

Guess I should say something that counts as content actually, err

Bell is town

Gamma is scum

Cool game

[Yuri Gagarin]

i hope to find out who you are yuri, even though i might scumread you i like you a lot

this is very appreciated, Oka

idk from Oka's position as either alignment I would feel pretty uncomfortable

pushing Yuri given his current state

although it may seem contradictory to what I just said, I'm doing okay now and the thing in my personal life has resolved so please don't not push me because you're worried about me irl, I just happen to be kinda sad today which is why it was nice to see oka saying that

me not enjoying the game at this point has much more to do with the game itself than it does with anything in my personal life

[Yuri Gagarin]

Can we lim me tomorrow

no

DGB a sadist, u heard it here first

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: gamma

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri off.

nah

[Yuri Gagarin]

Good start IMO.

Yuri, oka, save the dragons has scum in it IMO.

Then release me from this mortal coil

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: GL

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: oka

[Yuri Gagarin]

Bingle, GL, titus, oka

[Yuri Gagarin]

Let’s kill oka first for bitching about the neighbourhood

He claims that neighbourhoods are pointless

Yet he posts in one

Curious

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: GL

[Yuri Gagarin]

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri answer for your crimes.

nah

[Yuri Gagarin]

quaking

[Yuri Gagarin]

If daddy fakegod won’t save me then who will

[Yuri Gagarin]

Need him to protect me from the big bad tituses and unowens of the world

[Yuri Gagarin]

VOTE: oka

[Yuri Gagarin]

Wow, what a big brain play

[Yuri Gagarin]

maybe he’s able to read me or alternatively maybe he’s town

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yea I’m the one being a dick, mmhm

[Yuri Gagarin]

then i mean you are labelling this game as unfun which idk feels like an attack on me, like im making this game unfun for you which can possibly be true but like cmon

I consider you and bell equally responsible for why this game has been as unfun as it is, fwiw

[Yuri Gagarin]

i feel like you are using harsher language in the neighborhood pt directed at me then you were when we are going at it d1. you were being all the oh i don't see the game that way okapoka in here but in there you are like wow trash garbage bye bye

maybe because I’m tired and not in a great mood but also the moment there was something that actually made me feel like maybe I wanted to get involved in the game again I have you and bell shouting about how it’s anti town to use it

[Yuri Gagarin]

Which, frankly: yeah, it is, but I really couldn’t care less at this point

So I’m gonna do what I want to do to try to have fun and the worse case is that I get limmed for it and at least then I don’t have to be involved anymore

Don’t like it, tough

[Yuri Gagarin]

And I did address the problems with your case on me oka, which you then just never bothered to respond to

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri, to be clear, if you aren’t going to tell me why you’re not enjoying the game or what about my behavior you don’t like there’s pretty much not much i can do about it.

It is to a not insignificant extent a personality thing regarding how you play mafia although I don’t hold negative feelings towards you as a person outside of the realm of mafia

Right now as in today, you’re on my shitlist for trying to discourage people from using the neighbourhood

[Yuri Gagarin]

Oka that’s completely disregarding the context of everything else that’s happened in the game between those two posts

Like I was looking forward to this game, then it started, got progressively less enjoyable for me and so by the end of day I really didn’t give a fuck about trying to do anything to help town if it was anything that I didn’t already want to do

I knew I wanted to be on neighbourhood and so I wasn’t getting off

Same thing today — I’ll be getting on once any wagon is near, and I won’t be getting off

[Yuri Gagarin]

1088 doesn’t make sense

If my whole plan as scum is to t and get TR for boldness then why do I not double down on the mechtalk sucks and I’ll shoot anyone who keeps partaking of it

Whereas you’re ruling out my feeling of “this is something I find boring but I want to at least not throw and ideally get some advtange from mechanics” as being the less likely scenario here bc ???

[Yuri Gagarin]

you just admitted you don't even care to help town

[Yuri Gagarin]

im annoyed this setup is hard enough and i like to try and have a semblance of a shot at winning this setup

lol

[Yuri Gagarin]

MECHTALK DOES FUCKING SUCK

IT SUCKS DIRTY ASS

[Yuri Gagarin]

if I’m scummy goal is not to have everyone townreading me in that world my plan is to utter eliminate mechtalk from the conversation

It doesn’t matter if a subsection scumread me for it, because there are others who’ll townread me for the balls to the wall nature of pushing that plus the benefits of removing mechtalk entirely

[Yuri Gagarin]

Like do you think my actions tally with someone who was seriously trying to stop and derail all the mechtalk rather than voice my distaste for it? I don’t think you can possibly believe that if you’re acting in good faith when I’d made like, maybe 15 posts on mech AT BEST by the time you started calling me scum for wanting to shut down mechtalk because, and I quote, “I’ve seen scum do that before”

[Yuri Gagarin]

Nah, you already admitted that those neighborhood are -EV. Don’t back peddle.
Tell me what appealed to you about those neighborhoods.

Is this to me? Where am I backpedaling lmao

[Yuri Gagarin]

do you think its reasonable for town to want to keep someone alive who is actively working to sabotage town's win conditions because they don't give a fuck now?

Also I’m trying to vote scum

Just because I actively want to fuck up the mech so all the effort put into it was wasted doesn’t mean I’m playing against wincon here

[Yuri Gagarin]

and its the best we had

Please

[Yuri Gagarin]

And you voting other people.. means what, exactly?

Did you bother to do any examination of the wagon that sprung up on me after the fact given that your reasoning wasn’t great by your own admission? No?

And then you’ve swung back round to your original departure point anyway

[Yuri Gagarin]

The bingle/Dann interactions, for one

Looking at dann/hypo

Further pursuing the gamma/fakegod conflict

[Yuri Gagarin]

im going to try my hand at vca wrt to yuri wagon, hi titus

dgb unvote at the time it happened (when guilty voted) probably means dgb/yuri maybe aligned? at least if yuri is town, dgb town stonks go way up while yuri is scum, dgb scum stonks go slightly up.

guilty/unowen/dusa all have slight +scum equity i suppose for blind sheeping me in a way and scum probably want to be on lead wagons regardless of yuri's alignment. however its unlikely that all three r scum. 1 or 2 probs yeah? rule of three maybe?

bell unknown because he was first vote and is not really related to this.

add titus to the guilty/unowen/dusa i think because i think titus would understand how the setup works

i don't think yuri's alignment really changes after being wagoned, scum probably just want to be on a leading wagon and i think someone like yuri wouldn't say in scum pt, don't wagon me u lil shits

receipts

Have to go but my initial feeling is that these are insincere

[Yuri Gagarin]

As in there’s some analysis and then I think no real follow up to that other than hopping onto gamma and then just a flip back onto me today

Like I don’t think that if you’re seriously looking at that and wondering about it then considering that I think gamma and I were competing wagons, your reaction today is to vote me and call me scum instead of wondering again who was involved in running me up and staying on me vs moving onto scum

[Yuri Gagarin]

Maybe stop leveraging your borderline trust telling into an attempt to dictate how people play or what’s acceptable as strategy

[Yuri Gagarin]

i ran you up yuri, do i need to take a spiritual journey of self reflection for running you up?

I made a commitment to someone to not be toxic so while I would have some choice words for you, I’m actually just going to log out

[Yuri Gagarin]

especially when I care about whether people are having fun or not.

I have no idea if this is sincere or not but I sounds deeply sarcastic and highly unpleasant

[Yuri Gagarin]

As does all your posting on this page tbh @bell

[Yuri Gagarin]

But like I said, I’m logging out

I know my limits better now and I’m not interested in getting into a shitfest

[Yuri Gagarin]

@bell, okay noted, and thanks for reaching out in that case. I’ll try to address it tomorrow when I’m hopefully calmed and in a better mood

@oka sorry if I got snappy. You’re a fun player but I haven’t enjoyed aspects of your play this game. Probably overreacted a bit

[Yuri Gagarin]

i personally have the expectation that everyone is fully maximizing their individual chance of winning the current singular game they are in

this is a great way to make mafia miserable for most-to-everyone involved, and I say that as someone who tracked my winrate in excel for a while across multiple genres of games (amusingly, the big thing that dragged me down was large themes lmao) and who was once described as "one of the biggest tryhards on site" or words to that effect, and all it did was make me enjoy mafia progressively less until I was completely burned out

I still often find myself trying harder than I'd like but I think approaching mafia from the perspective of "this is a game where you're meant to have fun" where winning is a bonus is a much healthier relationship to the game

[Yuri Gagarin]

anyway, I've thought about it and oka is probably town

additional apology if I made you feel miserable, oka, that wasn't my intention. hopefully we can reach a compromise point where the game isn't miserable for either of us

[Yuri Gagarin]

kinda expected to die here.

really? why?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I made it clear why I am voting Yuri

I know you're away but when you get back -- okay, but I already addressed this so.. do you disagree with why Oka's argument doesn't make sense or is there something more?

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri, what exactly excited you about the setup that you're not being allowed to explore?

I was essentially imagining that this would have major parallels to a dance game / a game that hellbooks ran a long time ago on her previous main account where multiple new neighbourhoods were created throughout the game and had an impact on elims

basically was hoping to have fun neighbourhoods which would double as almost playing a second mini-mafia game as you try to figure out who if anyone is scum and trying to mis-steer the vig shot

trying to brute force the neighbourhoods into optimal setups or to otherwise break the setup (like restricting who a neighbourhood can shoot at pain of being shot by all the other neighbourhoods). also thought that given lack of power roles and night kills that this would be a super day play heavy setup, but if it's possible to brute force strong advantage just through mechanics then that becomes less necessary and it becomes a case of "sheep the winning strategy" which is... like, fine, but that's not what I came to do and it takes away agency

it's the same reason why idc if it's theoretically better for me to be leashed if I roll vig, if I roll vig then I'm shooting whoever my SR is

[Yuri Gagarin]

See: his ISO

non-answer. what about my ISO?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I think I need to try to do a hard reset, with (oka, bell) town as a starting point

[Yuri Gagarin]

GL, why are you TRing bingle?

[Yuri Gagarin]

UNVOTE:

[Yuri Gagarin]

bell, imma level with you, im not sure who you're talking about or to in the last couple of posts

not the gulag one, that made sense

[Yuri Gagarin]

Oka that’s completely disregarding the context of everything else that’s happened in the game between those two posts

Like I was looking forward to this game, then it started, got progressively less enjoyable for me and so by the end of day I really didn’t give a fuck about trying to do anything to help town if it was anything that I didn’t already want to do

I knew I wanted to be on neighbourhood and so I wasn’t getting off

Same thing today — I’ll be getting on once any wagon is near, and I won’t be getting off

oka, you realise that my feelings are not static, right?

so like, my irritation and frustration with the game has (largely) faded atp and expecting that I'm going to be consistent with what I was feeling while I was pissed off is not the case

[Yuri Gagarin]

YES, I DENOUNCE IT WITH ALL MY HEART

I SWEAR THE BOOMBOX WAS A GIFT FROM THE GLORIOUS PREMIER OF THE SOVIET UNION HIMSELF

[Yuri Gagarin]

yuri thanks for the reach out, but me having a bad time should never be your concern. i think there is a line between trying so hard where you track wrs and are mad about people not reading correctly and just playing where you are broad strokes making the right decisions, but still ultimately playing to win rather than make the game harder for everyone else in a quantifiably annoying way you know.

i think neighborhoods use should be reserved as something only out of necessity. if there is a lot of content going in neighborhoods, then i mean how fun is it to the people not in the neighborhoods that they are missing out on things that are progressing? if we just let first come first serve dictate neighborhoods, i think that presents a whole host of issues where basically we have ms.net survival of the active, and ultimately people who can't just be on the site as much are less likely to get into the neighborhoods even if other people want them in. leashing votes in and pausing neighborhood activity is the equal thing to do, the point of government and communism is to protect those who can't protect themselves and idk, sounds like capitalism to me when you throw this all into the wind and say fuck you, i will get mine and you can get yours and we are going to create this oligarchical bounds to exclude others from the ability to help out. we are going to create this political backroom dealings. sounds a lot like capitalism to me. i question your very faith to the worker's republic and party.

to respond to this: firstly, it is my concern -- regardless of alignment, I don't want to be the reason why other people aren't enjoying the game. I want to play in a way that makes it fun for me but without making it an experience causing "misery" to other people. I disagree that I'm not playing to win at the moment, and even if my feelings on spiting the strict control over the formation of wagons are nebulous (if that's what the argument is, not sure if from what bingle said if I've misunderstood) I'm still trying to win in my own way, by trying to get my reads correct. hence my decision to try and reset

In my socialism at least, we believe that there is a lot of sense in following the principles of from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. my need is to be in lots of neighbourhoods because I find them super fun. if I'm depriving others who *want* to be in neighbourhoods and use them, sure, they can talk to me. if everyone disagrees with me on this, then I can always be limmed or vigged, but I reject the idea that there's something wrong with me wanting to be in them. you may also note that my presence in the neighbourhood has also correlated with my feeling somewhat resurgent about playing here, so it's not either or. and like, I think the neighbourhood has already served a use, because I think DGB has townslipped there

[Yuri Gagarin]

I think I'm missing something on the he-man thing tbh

[Yuri Gagarin]

DO YOU DENOUNCE OLIGARCHS AND ELITISM?

DO YOU ACCEPT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, TO PROTECT THOSE WHO CANNOT BE PROTECTED? TO LET THOSE WE NEED CONTRIBUTE WHAT THEY CAN RATHER THAN TAKING IT FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE WE CAN?

I DENOUNCE THEM. I DENOUNCE THEM. I DO ACCEPT IT, AS I ACCEPTED THE GLORIOUS MISSION TO THE COSMOS

[Yuri Gagarin]

sitting here saluting rn tbh

whatever your feelings may be on the Soviet Union, it can't be denied that our anthem fuckin' slaps

[Yuri Gagarin]

we don't have that meme in the Союз Советских Социалистических Республик

[Yuri Gagarin]

I wish you'd stop doing this oka

[Yuri Gagarin]

like I can't stop you but I really wish you'd stop

[Yuri Gagarin]

I enjoyed the role-play, I'd just like it if you didn't instantly reveal everything in the neighbourhood in the main thread

[Yuri Gagarin]

bingle did you know that yuri feels doubtful on dusa's alignment?

I didn't but I'd be curious as to what the reasoning is.

I started rereading a bit by looking at ISOs and started with dusa bc she's felt fairly null to me and i wasn't getting the TRs

and my feeling after skimming through some of the posts and looking at votes is that she's not voted for anyone who wasn't already a viable target and hasn't given any reads that were against consensus at all, which is something that can happen from town but I feel like town most of the time will have ~something~ where they disagree or something that's more out there

[Yuri Gagarin]

yuri do you think that our entire hood is all town?

no lmao

[Yuri Gagarin]

i just dont understand why you cant post thing here i feel like giving everyone the same amount of information is kinda a good thing? figuring out who has asymmetrical information is like a core part of scumhunting. why did someone get venge'd? hard to make that deliberation when you dont' have perfect information and idk we want to make it harder. at the very least i want the fact that my understanding to be wrong to be solely at the feet that i suck complete ass at the game rather than having any chance of blaming other circumstances and mistakenly out of pure ego be like oohhhhhhh that's why i was wrong, no i want to look at this game in 3 months and be like yes i was a complete idiot and i still continue to suck at this game but that's okay because it was i who sucked and i who am to be wholly blamed.

I mean, oka, if I post something in hood the idea is not that it's staying hidden forever and I fully assume it's going to make it's way out

but like maybe I want to see how people react in private or if there's any impact on how they play publicly, or to see if I can get people to examine how somebody is playing in main thread/probe them on something without them knowing they're being probed. withholding a degree of information -- not forever, but temporarily -- is not a bad thing

[Yuri Gagarin]

yuri did you know that dusa led the charge on gamma?

I'll look at this again but I think that gamma was already broadly under suspicion that lingered from FG interactions, no? idk this does overlap with the bit of the game I didn't really read, but my impression was that gamma never really got cleared and so I don't think that pressuring him at that point (esp after the wagon had died down) is strongly anti-partner

[Yuri Gagarin]

I could also just be totally fucking wrong but *shrug*

it bothered me in ISO

[Yuri Gagarin]

bingle did you know that DGB finds STD lots mores scummy than usual ?

please stop

[Yuri Gagarin]

again, this information is going to be outed unless you think you're the only member of town in the hood which is literally impossible

[Yuri Gagarin]

unless you want to don the crown of BoP me i am god i carry trust and say everyone else is a worthless peon of a player who will only hold you back

shit, how did you figure out my main

[Yuri Gagarin]

who's outting it tho

idk probably you! or someone else! like DGB or me! but after it's been discussed for a bit first. again, not saying the information can't be outed but can you please try to let us actually use the hoods

[Yuri Gagarin]

the thing that bothers me is that you believe that there is one correct way to play this when there isn't, and by repeatedly outing information you're removing the ability of people to play how they want -- idk why DGB is posting there and not here, but maybe she has a reason for that, like, idk wanting to bait scum into thinking she's checked out? or wanting to work through some things in hood first before getting into them in main thread. and by instantly revealing everything, you're taking a unilateral decision to make that impossible

[Yuri Gagarin]

I'll look at this again but I think that gamma was already broadly under suspicion that lingered from FG interactions, no? idk this does overlap with the bit of the game I didn't really read, but my impression was that gamma never really got cleared and so I don't think that pressuring him at that point (esp after the wagon had died down) is strongly anti-partner

The GE/FG bit was largely ignored by everyone that wasn't GE/FG, afaik. I certainly didn't think it was AI.

hmm, I felt like that was a fairly significant deal especially in the early game? along with like dann/hypo it was one of the more interesting parts of the first 10-15 pages I think

[Yuri Gagarin]

if i was not in the hood id be pretty frustrated to hear that activity was happening in the hood and i couldnt see it? id beg for information and leaks and being told to wait is not it. i find the real time evolution of a game to be the most thrilling part of the game, finding out about someone's reads 3 days after it passes doesn't capture the same emotional feeling. its jarring in a way, like you are replacing in the game but everything about the game is kinda just out of sync.

here's the issue yuri and the real core issue i think. you think that me leaking info is a unilateral decision that ruins individual gameplay. id argue that not leaking and not taking action when its possible is a unilateral decision in it of itself, and if i would want others to leak it for me, regardless of the consequence, id be a hypocrite not to leak it myself, and while i might slightly make your attempts at gambitting slightly worse, i think id improve everyone else's ability.

and ultimately, i don't trust you to be town. i don't trust people who use the hood to be locktown. i see the hood as an excellent device to lay common ground with little consequence in order to pocket certain people while escaping the purview of others. if you were confirmed town, i wouldn't leak it, but its a balance. if you are scum its always good to leak, if you are town its good and bad to leak. im going to leak.

then respectfully you should have gotten in on the hood earlier if you feel that way? again, hoods are part of the setup, using them is personally something I find enjoyable and I feel like you're undermining me via posting everything I say here

like what do you think is the advantage that I'm gaining as scum from posting in the hood and not here? do you think I really expect that information to stay secret long term? plus you're also assuming that there's going to be like significant delay in how long it takes for what's taking place there to find its way out into main thread

I don't see how it improves everyone else's ability because one of the main things it makes me want to do is, simply, not play? like if you're going to undermine what I see as one of the fundamental things I was looking forward to its a lot harder to care beyond just getting pissed off about it, which I'm trying very hard to avoid doing

how is the hood going to lay ground to pocket people if there's an expectation that whatever is in there is going to be outed? if you think hat's what I'm doing, WHO exactly am I trying to pocket?

[Yuri Gagarin]

eh

VOTE: a50

[Yuri Gagarin]

that does help with context, thanks bingle

[Yuri Gagarin]

I think what I'd most like is for T3 to get back here and answer for his sins though

[Yuri Gagarin]

if i was not in the hood id be pretty frustrated to hear that activity was happening in the hood and i couldnt see it? id beg for information and leaks and being told to wait is not it. i find the real time evolution of a game to be the most thrilling part of the game, finding out about someone's reads 3 days after it passes doesn't capture the same emotional feeling. its jarring in a way, like you are replacing in the game but everything about the game is kinda just out of sync.

here's the issue yuri and the real core issue i think. you think that me leaking info is a unilateral decision that ruins individual gameplay. id argue that not leaking and not taking action when its possible is a unilateral decision in it of itself, and if i would want others to leak it for me, regardless of the consequence, id be a hypocrite not to leak it myself, and while i might slightly make your attempts at gambitting slightly worse, i think id improve everyone else's ability.

and ultimately, i don't trust you to be town. i don't trust people who use the hood to be locktown. i see the hood as an excellent device to lay common ground with little consequence in order to pocket certain people while escaping the purview of others. if you were confirmed town, i wouldn't leak it, but its a balance. if you are scum its always good to leak, if you are town its good and bad to leak. im going to leak.

then respectfully you should have gotten in on the hood earlier if you feel that way? again, hoods are part of the setup, using them is personally something I find enjoyable and I feel like you're undermining me via posting everything I say here

like what do you think is the advantage that I'm gaining as scum from posting in the hood and not here? do you think I really expect that information to stay secret long term? plus you're also assuming that there's going to be like significant delay in how long it takes for what's taking place there to find its way out into main thread

I don't see how it improves everyone else's ability because one of the main things it makes me want to do is, simply, not play? like if you're going to undermine what I see as one of the fundamental things I was looking forward to its a lot harder to care beyond just getting pissed off about it, which I'm trying very hard to avoid doing

how is the hood going to lay ground to pocket people if there's an expectation that whatever is in there is going to be outed? if you think hat's what I'm doing, WHO exactly am I trying to pocket?

because posting to an audience is how scum gets townread? its why i can do well as scum early and fall off, because the people i try to pocket also are the people i want to nk and then oopsie doopsie. even if things get outted, i can't out certain stuff like the emotions and tones of how you are posting, i can't know whats important that you've posted, i can only hope to transmit enough information so that you are either dissuaded from posting in the neighborhood or ive captured your posts well enough to dissuade you from trying to pocket at the very least.

and the thing is yuri, if you are mod confirmed town, maybe, i wouldnt leak. but i don't know if you are using the guise of fun to trying to get me off your back and ive weighed the risk and rewards of my actions and i think i just have to leak so you don't try anything. and before you say you wouldn't do anything so disgusting, you can believe its fun to have neighborhoods and just lean into that emotion as scum. people doing wildly unethical things as scum is fun to watch but im not just going to assume scum aren't going to use AtE. i think the odds of you being town are not nearly high enough for me to just let you do what you do out of faith. and im a bad sorter, but maybe someone else is better.

and you can pocket with eyes watching, hell imagine 3 people are suspicious of you pocketing in that hood but you manage to pocket 2. that's a good trade for scum, getting people to claim you are locktown is legitimately how you win mountainous setups.

I'm failing to see the connection between how posting to an audience is different here vs there or the more general point about you wanting to nk. and like. I don't know why you think I'd be able to pocket people in the hood but not here tbh, and it feels like what you are doing is removing the utility of letting me, you know, play how I want to for very little benefit? given that in any world where I'm scum I'm not gonna be relying on neighbourhoods to get that done, I'm going to be doing it everywhere I can?

for the second paragraph... I don't think this has anything to do with AtE or what's ethical/unethical and it has a lot to do with whether or not you want me to be a functioning player or not? like you said that you think you know who I am in the next post, in which case like, why not let me do my thing (again, knowing that it's not like I can do anything to conceal what I'm doing in hood really?) and see how it works out

again, who am I trying to pocket in your opinion? this doesn't require you to think I'm town, but it does require you to justify why the issue you're making out of all of this isn't just a paranoid pipe dream but is a legitimate concern for the town in a world where I'm scum

[Yuri Gagarin]

and here's a big thing, when people eventually re iso us, its important to see reads trajectory in that iso and forcing others to leak it or posting it out of time is a great way to muddy the waters of late game work.

as if this makes a difference in lategame

I think you're just trying to justify it because it's what you want to do

in fact as i type i think i am mandated to leak everything ASAP it'd be silly not to do so

and spoiler alert: you're really not!

[Yuri Gagarin]

like idk why would claim you wouldn't pocket even if things might leak

scum pocket in main game thread like every day, its just easier in the hood as less people are watching, and escaping immediate criticism and letting things settle in is still an advantage for scum.

I'm not claiming I wouldn't pocket in the hood if I were scum, I'm saying that it wouldn't provide me any great advantage because I'd also be focused on pocketing in main thread? I would get your concern more if it was a much smaller hood with less oversight or potentially a scum maj hood, but it can provably be neither of these things which means that your reasoning for needing to leak everything doesn't hold up.

again, if you think you know who I am, and you think I'm a decent scum hunter, why are you actively stymieing my ability to hunt how I want to? like beyond the fun aspect, by leaking everything straight away instead of after a day or two you're just making me less effective

[Yuri Gagarin]

both by not allowing me to do my thing but also by just sapping my motivation

[Yuri Gagarin]

not to mention that this is taking a disproportionate amount of time and energy to go back and forth with you which could otherwise be better spent, and it's not actually achieving much because I'm still obviously going to use the hood so it makes a very marginal difference to what you're trying to achieve (seeing as you still can't post what I'm actually saying)

essentially I don't get at all how this fits with your insistence on "optimal play"

[Yuri Gagarin]

I have to shoot off but I have a partial response to the above in my drafts

[Yuri Gagarin]

the big post I mean

[Yuri Gagarin]

I mostly think you're just stuck in an awful tunnel rn

[Yuri Gagarin]

I'm tired today, any update on who we're yeeting?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I could do CB, lavarmanos, or T3 if he hasn't turned up and answered my question of what it is in my ISO that he's actually voting me for yet

[Yuri Gagarin]

T3 did u answer me yet

[Yuri Gagarin]

See: his ISO

non-answer. what about my ISO?

[Yuri Gagarin]

oh

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Yuri Gagarin]

T3 WHY DO YOU VANISH EVERY TIME I TURN UP AND ASK FOR YOU

[Yuri Gagarin]

T3 WHY DO YOU VANISH EVERY TIME I TURN UP AND ASK FOR YOU

Sure.
Your vote on gamma was the scummiest post to happen in the game.

why lmao

[Yuri Gagarin]

sup, busy weekend, probably back tomorrow or Monday

I have read exactly this page and like DGB and FG, fine to kill T3

VOTE: t3

[Yuri Gagarin]

like as in those slots are good

not as in I agree with them on t3
well I guess I agree with FG

am really tired, went to first party in over a year yesterday

[Yuri Gagarin]

At this point id assume scum are just playing for themself. Don't overthink it too much

this makes sense how

[Yuri Gagarin]

@T3

T3 WHY DO YOU VANISH EVERY TIME I TURN UP AND ASK FOR YOU

Sure.
Your vote on gamma was the scummiest post to happen in the game.

why lmao

[Yuri Gagarin]

hi

answer the question

[Yuri Gagarin]

because as far as I can see the only meaningful action you've taken between like 4 days ago and now is lazily vote me while occasionally popping a vanity vote on Titus

[Yuri Gagarin]

and ?

[Yuri Gagarin]

"the scummiest post to happen in the game"

[Yuri Gagarin]

like bruh

[Yuri Gagarin]

like my day 1 theory.

why was this a theory in the first place

[Yuri Gagarin]

Today I am willing to yeet LavarManos or UNOwen.

not t3?

[Yuri Gagarin]

T3 and lavar can both be scum and then either A50 or UNown

maybe UNown more likely if the VCA works out that there ws likely scum on my wagon

[Yuri Gagarin]

on D1, I mean, vs the cupcake wagon

[Yuri Gagarin]

{FG, oka, DGB, Titus}

{Bingle, dusa}

{STD, GL}

{A50, UNOwen}

{LavarManos, T3}

[Yuri Gagarin]

At this point id assume scum are just playing for themself. Don't overthink it too much

this makes sense how

Nobody really was trying to stop d1 and d2 wagons. Everyone was kinda ok w it. Which means scum probs just going w the flow and letting things happen

so the scumplan is... just lose?

[Yuri Gagarin]

should we leash neighborhoods?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is–ought_problem

[Yuri Gagarin]

why

why forum links work like this

[Yuri Gagarin]

that should have been so witty

[Yuri Gagarin]

should we leash neighborhoods?

manually copy and paste this into your browser

Code: Select all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is–ought_problem

[Yuri Gagarin]

scumplan im guessing is a generic, everyone just be townie and hopefully one of us makes it to the end?

and you've seen scum have this plan how often exactly

[Yuri Gagarin]

More likely that scum knew they couldn't save their weaker members.

and so the solution was to just make it easier for town to lim them all despite no push happening in such a way as to give the next scum towncred?

[Yuri Gagarin]

send me to the dead thread, I wish to mock you both

[Yuri Gagarin]

baton pass
large normal v2
epilogue!
starry night

from what I remember I at least don't think that was accurate for baton pass or epilogue

[Yuri Gagarin]

oh hm, scum PT never got released for epilogue

yo FG if it's not OOG influence can you go and release the epilogue scum PT ?

[Yuri Gagarin]

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=81032&start=50

baton pass wasn't lack of planning on behalf, it was just RC brute forcing things after having excellent reads and scum not being able to functionally shift far from early scumlims

[Yuri Gagarin]

on behalf of the scumteam*

[Yuri Gagarin]

I know you played in baton pass, didn't you play in all of the games you just listed?

I just disagree with your perspective, there was clearly planning of how to approach the game that (I might add) worked

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=81032&start=75

^see this after volpe repped in

like scum were messy on endgame in part because of RC making them into a mess, but they had a plan for how they were going to try and win after that point and were even trying to come up with one during the first pass

[Yuri Gagarin]

I mean it's not a theory debate, it's a "don't be surprised once you lim through PoE pool and all scum aren't dead given that there were a very easy 2 lims on D1 and D2 on scum" debate