Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Chara]

i said i gave reasons to tr anya and wasn't listened to. that doesn't change if she flips scum.

[Chara]

catching up from yesterday.
not going to talk about why i thought anya was town any more than i already did stratum 1.

also someone attacked me last night. i can imagine why.

[Chara]

Rocket Fist Chara removed 1 hp from the game - innate
Data Mined NDMath (2 sp) - Blocked NDMath from regenerating SP.

why didn't you target me with both abilities?

not that i'm complaining i guess.

[Chara]

Titus is fake claiming

She does 1 damage and can spend 2 sp to stop somebody from regenerating 1 sp

isn't this what she claimed?

[Chara]

Wheme's "dream vision" does seem to be in line with Sigmund's claim.

but the deaths last night were very strange. i don't know how to interpret Toog being the scum kill, if that's what happened.

[Chara]

i'm not sure that's an easy thing to judge, but i don't think i'm in a position where i want to argue about it given your play today.

i can see why town Titus comes to make the actions she's claimed and the stances/votes she's made today. besides the shea read. that one kind of threw me.

[Chara]

i started learning to drive yesterday. terrifying experience, but it ended up being fun.

[Chara]

i don't think it's useless. she can target players she doesn't want regaining their normal SP. and from the way she worded it it's possible there is some way to regain more than 1 SP in a turn for a certain role.

i don't think telling the truth woule necessarily make her town, though.

pedit: i don't need advice on driving safely, but thanks.

[Chara]

shouldn't Not Mafia have dissipated when anya was eliminated? how was the doppelganger even a valid target?

i saw someone confirm he was last night but i can't find it now.

[Chara]

Wait, did Arte claim she targeted N_M over the night phase?

Yes. And according to the mod, we (morph) could have targeted it last night as well.

That part checks out.

right, it's here. so morph says NM was still a valid target last night.

i don't understand why Arte's claim went from "check a player's alignment against myself" to "check two target's alignments against each other, can't target myself."

[Chara]

Also: why was it 13 to eliminate yesterday?

because that's a simple majority of 24?

[Chara]

i mean, yeah..... Arte was very explicit about self-targeting multiple times and then just changed it to saying she targeted the doppel after a brief break.

[Chara]

Artemenia's claim would not require self targetting

It was 13 to elim with 23 alive

oh, right, i forgot about the survivor death. huh.

[Chara]

like, the rest of Arte's claim looks pretty legitimate, i want to believe what she's saying and how she's saying it, but i can't with that big change she just has not explained.

[Chara]

Rocket Fist Chara removed 1 hp from the game - innate
Data Mined NDMath (2 sp) - Blocked NDMath from regenerating SP.

why didn't you target me with both abilities?

not that i'm complaining i guess.

You're more valuable flipped for my VCA.

NDMath was the scum I felt would live and needed to be stopped on further nights.

I hate this kind of reasoning.

But, we know that.

Ok. It should be confirmed that Chara did lose HP though and Chara isn't obvtown.

My actions make sense and they aren't changing when caught out.

I pushed to lim scum and protect town all day yesterday.

This "guilty" is most likely an attempt to silence me because all my townreads are right.

yeah, it makes sense.

i mean... shea, i know you don't townread Titus, but i don't see why she pushes anya when she did and commits to the bus like that. nothing she's done is ringing big alarm bells for me.

i also think Arte's lying is ridiculous if she's town, like she can claim it was to avoid wifom all she wants but the change in tune is suspicious and ends up causing this whole discussion anyway. i don't know how i'm supposed to be finding scum in this meta if town love lying so much.

[Chara]

Arte: did you talk about why you targeted Titus with your cop?

[Chara]

Occam's razer says arte is town. That tells me Titus is likely scum, but I'll admit that my biases are obviously already in that direction. And I don't think Titus' claim that she was the one who pushed anya is real. Like, scum shade and vote their buddies all the time. Sometimes they even push them hard. I don't think there was any real risk of anya getting yeeted until LLD showed up and at that point it became almost inevitable. So I don't give titus any points for being on anya.

i don't think Arte town makes Titus scum because i don't believe in that cop check's ability to test the alignment of a player against a copy that isn't an actual player.

but whatever. maybe i just can't come around to scumreading the player i kept yelling at yesterday because she was arguing to eliminate scum and i was telling her she was wrong.

pedit: what about Titus's play yesterday made you think she was bussing?

[Chara]

i think i'm going to not have opinions today and just sheep LLD.
no, i didn't think i'd be here either.

[Chara]

confirmed NM was targetable last night.

[Chara]

at least i was right about something.

[Chara]

i don't think Titus is scum, i don't understand what makes Titus scum by play, it all seems like crap to me, i'm just seeing her get fake guiltied and discredited after clearly being enthusiastic about an anya elim yesterday. could someone please explain it in a different way if i've just been completely taken in because i don't want to defend scum two days in a row.

[Chara]

at least morph is validating me. while being a GAMBIT ENABLER

now to think about whether shea actually believes Titus could be guiltied off of anya's fake player.

pedit: lmao. i don't know. mafia. *jazz hands*

[Chara]

you know, you make a really good point.

[Chara]

at least morph is validating me. while being a GAMBIT ENABLER

now to think about whether shea actually believes Titus could be guiltied off of anya's fake player.

pedit: lmao. i don't know. mafia. *jazz hands*

definitely not the fake guilty. I'm just not seeing the town read y'all have.

you argued earlier that Arte was occam's razor town and therefore Titus was scum. i'm referring to them, when the claim wasn't officially retracted.

[Chara]

Mara gave me the hope of validating one of my reads in the way you've been validated and it was snatched away from me in a game where everything I've thought has been garbage so I'm just really pissed right now.

i won't be really validated without a Titus flip anyway, i don't have much confidence atm.

pedit: ok.

[Chara]

hi LLD. i'm still thinking about sheeping you but i've had a second wind so it won't be blind. also i might be on your list so lmao.

[Chara]

i agree that Ircher hasn't towntold.

my thought for why Sigmund is still alive is 1) he is miselimmable and scum decided to give him another day, and they killed someone who would never have been a doc protect, or 2) the obvious he is scum.

i feel Wheme's been nothing but towny and i believe his claim. and i think Flea is more likely scum than Sigmund, if either are, looking at how both of their wagons went when put next to anya.

[Chara]

I still refuse to believe that the duplicate mechanic could give miller results, especially after it has been confirmed that NM could be targeted last night

I also refuse to believe that town! artemiana does a fake guilty gambit on titus of all people, it's an extremely dangerous move for no reason at all because even if it is correct it's going to be a liability later

And i have a very, very hard time believing that scum!artemiana pulls up a fake guilty on a controversial player like titus (controversial = not universally townread, not a threatening role, not a town leader), that's suicidal and almost literally against wincon because if titus flips town, at least i am going to lim artemiana immediately with no second thoughts

People arguing otherwise are worrying me (mostly looking at chara and morph right now)

what do you think i'm arguing?

[Chara]

oh, you're not caught up. yeah, it was fake.

[Chara]

i agree that Ircher hasn't towntold.

my thought for why Sigmund is still alive is 1) he is miselimmable and scum decided to give him another day, and they killed someone who would never have been a doc protect, or 2) the obvious he is scum.

i feel Wheme's been nothing but towny and i believe his claim. and i think Flea is more likely scum than Sigmund, if either are, looking at how both of their wagons went when put next to anya.

You think a scum wagon countered another scum wagon?

"if either are scum"
Sigmund's wagon was easier to build when anya became a real option than Flea's.

[Chara]

also i don't believe in this idea that only scum can build wagons. town have the ability to build a scum counterwagon to scum, in a general sense. two groups of town arguing over reads and them both being scum is a thing that happens.

[Chara]

It's 8 am and I can't go back to bed

But No. I also thought I could steal SP from someone else S1 and didn't think to ask until S1 started

To be clear, I didnt have enough SP to fire off last night

[Chara]

it was a compliment.

[Chara]

i see some reasons to vote Dunnstral but they are probably not Fire's reasons.
he was right that i bus anya there.

[Chara]

i see some reasons to vote Dunnstral but they are probably not Fire's reasons.
he was right that i bus anya there.

They are probably not. Mine are how he is handling me

mine is literally just his floating that Titus and i could be doing scum theatre with a fake attack on me.

[Chara]

Rocket Fist Chara removed 1 hp from the game - innate
Data Mined NDMath (2 sp) - Blocked NDMath from regenerating SP.

why didn't you target me with both abilities?

not that i'm complaining i guess.

If Titus is scum this is worth looking into

Chara being attacked, I mean

PAnd I mean with power roles 'cause there is theatre potential here

i actually take it back, it looks more like Dunn trying to see if Titus's attack on me could be mech confirmed.

[Chara]

5) set aside nka and vca, i still dislike the ongoing defense of titus from chara and morph before artemiana admitted it was a fake guilty. This is regardless of titus alignment.

her claim literally changed from "targeted myself" to "targeted NM" partway through and i didn't like her justification for it at all. that and i never bought that one of anya's duplicates could be used for a cop check.
and i was right, so.

morph seems to know Arte better and so recognized the whole gambit thing.

[Chara]

like even if Arte is town, you expect me to believe a claim that half-baked in a meta where town fuck up or just lie all the time?

[Chara]

6) shea seems to be genuinely disappointed, although i am a bit concerned about his vote patterns. Is he known to be a passionate scum player? If that's the case, he could be scum here, otherwise he's a strong townread. Wouldn't vote there today anyways.

pretty much where i am with shea.

[Chara]

Eh, well, yeah you should have imo. Maybe i'm just out of touch with the town meta but i'm still concerned that only a couple people immediately doubted a guilty report without any significant reason to do so - i am aware i am projecting my expectations onto others but it doesn't mean i am wrong

i hard disagree that a claim that changed midway through in a pretty important way isn't a significant reason to doubt it. i'm not in the habit of blindly believing claims that don't make sense to me.

this is particularly frustrating because you seem to be suspecting me for being (correctly) dubious about a dubious cop guilty against a player i townread. finding my Titus defense unconvincing or too strong for the reasoning i've given is one thing but Arte's claim absolutely deserved the suspicion i gave it.

[Chara]

i don't know if you've played a lot of games where people just lie for a reaction, Fark, but the fact that this whole fake guilty thing is even a debate should tell you that i've dealt with this crap enough.

[Chara]

i'm shouldn't be overly negative because i'm not particularly mad at Arte about it, that isn't the idea i want out there.

but i do want to point out i did ask anyone earlier today who is scumreading Titus to try and convince me out of the townread because i was worried i was on the wrong track again and all i've gotten out of the day is a fake guilty on her instead and a bunch of slots saying she's still scummy.

[Chara]

Dunn: why do you TR SS? also curious about your non-poe scumreads, but mostly Ircher, and what the difference is between poe scum and just null in your list.

[Chara]

The interactions with the fake guilty alone is more than enough to show Titus is scum here. That was 100% a SvS interaction.
Aside from that, she's all over the place, and I think that's because she wants to throw us all off. She may be known for her moon logic, but this isn't that; it's just utter chaos. I don't think she's scumhunting; she is merely trying to give off the impression she is.

can you give some examples of her being all over the place? i recognize that you're talking about her play making that difficult but her play and reads have not felt chaotic to me.

[Chara]

i don't see why scum MC makes the decision to push LLD here, it just does not seem like a good idea for survivability.

but i don't find this analysis towny, either.

VOTE: murdercat

i'm sick so my emotional investment in this game is at an all-time low, but i'll try and present myself at least.

[Chara]

i am aware i am projecting my expectations onto others but it doesn't mean i am wrong

also this comment from Fark is kind of a red flag for me.

[Chara]

context being i'd expect that Farkran would be more curious about the general town meta regarding fake guilties/town gambits in general that would make me react the way i did, but it seems he's formed this conclusion while acknowledging his lack of experience. if he is scum i imagine he took my skepticism as an opportunity to poke around in spite of how he was treating my slot before.

though i still feel like his play seems largely like uninformed town.

[Chara]

i don't think everyone should react like that, my point about meta isn't that "all town would and should be skeptical", it's "it makes sense for me to have been skeptical".

i don't remember who else doubted the claim. i don't think it's strange to buy it by virtue of it being a bad thing to fake. i'm saying i noticed something was pretty wrong with it and no one else besides Guillotina seemed to care. morph didn't care because they recognized the gambit.

i also wasn't there for the claim in real time, i came in later and read all of it. and a lot of the players who did buy it immediately were ones who were scumreading Titus (you, shea, i dont remember who else at the moment), and i don't think you're taking that into account, either.

[Chara]

i don't think you had to have played with Mara before to doubt the claim.

[Chara]

I don't think I've seen anything that doesn't look like town murdercat to me. Shrug.

what is town murdercat going for this game? zeroing in on the anya wagon makes sense, but doing it to the exclusion of anything else, and defending the takes that didn't go down well with "but i'm only looking at anya's wagon specifically" are what i don't like.

also i think morph should share the Titus case.

[Chara]

I really don't think you need to make a massive case to explain why Titus is town. You could probably write a paragraph or two and I'd be convinced.
If she stopped pushing wagons like she expects MC to flip town while also knowing NDmath is going to flip town and she's just getting off the blame game, I'd appreciate that too.

i already thought Bell was pretty town but this "i can treat Titus as town if you do a little convincing but i'm also going to shade her in the same post" is reinforcing it. i might feel differently if Titus flipped scum but it's also antipartner in that case, i'm feeling.

[Chara]

that was only a problem until generation 4. though Flareon's physical fire moveset remains a little mediocre.

[Chara]

i'm not sure how much my input matters at this stage, but i feel good about the Murdercat wagon.

i don't find "i did the same thing in a towngame" at all convincing. most player scan copy their own town behavior, and usually your defense when the behavior is pointed out as scummy includes some kind of justification for why you've done it that way.

[Chara]

4362 does make me worry murdercat has some kind of useful town pr he will gleefully watch flip as he is killed, and think yes, we deserved to lose him for being so wrong, but i'd hope that's not the case.

[Chara]

wouldn't that imply town to you?

[Chara]

Of the people voting for Me/Flea prior to Anya-wagon gaining steam and pushing to the front and going thru I suspect the following:

Chara
NDMath

Farkran
White Fire

I don't like how they played out the last part of D1.

If Flea is town, the way these four players were positioned feels the most to me like "scum who are ok with T v T being the leading 2 wagons and then being caught flatfooted when Anya rips up and becomes a thing"

I still have not read anything that happened on D2 sorry I have been busy.

i feel the same re: Fark. i'm no expert on reading him but i think scum Fark does more to save anya if he's going to vocally support her than say "i agree with shea". and i've said before he feels uninformed

also i appreciate that murdercat plays to win, and i'm glad i was wrong in my worry with why he might be withholding the claim.

and that said i worry that he doesn't seem to be trying to survive if scum. i still don't find him towny but that behavior is confusing to me, i can think of a lot of ways for scum murdercat to try and improve his position and he isn't doing them. the easy thought is maybe he just can't? but it's not very satisfying.

Ircher on the other hand i really haven't tried to examine as much recently, but his attitude has hit town. i know nothing about Ircher's play, if it's possible he purposely takes this angle knowing it can get townreads through how he's been treating Bingle.

don't have the energy to try and figure out either of these things. might later today so:

UNVOTE: while i figure my shit out.

pedit: i could do Flea.

[Chara]

reads kind of like you're covering your bases so you don't get called out if you're wrong about morph making a towny effort.

[Chara]

i actually don't like Dunn's reaction to NM now that i look at it. "doublevoter that someone got to name" is wrong obviously, but the assumption that a player named it and it wasn't just a predetermined name from unwnd is actually correct. he could just be town who guessed right, but the focus on NM could be distancing.

i've been thinking about Dunn and his read on me, he seems pretty confident with how i'd approach a partner, and he isn't wrong, but the read kind of sticks out when i'm here accruing scumreads and Dunn then has a correct townread on me he's confident in. at least it contrasts Fark's read on the same topic where he came in thinking i wasn't scum but then became suspicious from other events.

ngl i'm extremely demotivated because i feel like a bunch of town are going to attack me tonight.

[Chara]

i think i prefer Ircher over a murdercat elim at this moment. murdercat's posts are hitting better and Ircher's are not. but i still like Flea most for scum. Dunn is a point of concern wrt the above but i'd appreciate feedback because he's also one of the few players that townreads me.

i still townread Fark and Titus both but it's with the energy where i expect to be proven wrong.

[Chara]

I won't dw.

But that seems like a weird thing to worry about

i already got attacked last night. it's weird to think more will do that tonight when i'm getting more scumreads? scum aren't going to waste any resources on me.

[Chara]

i don't think i'm getting miselimed. i think i'm going to get killed at night just from getting suspicion because the players who suspect me also don't think i'm very elimmable and/or have other players they suspect more.

it's stupid, but i like being townread and when i'm not, especially by players i townread and i feel like i'm on the wrong track with my own play and reads.

being used to something wouldn't make me enjoy it more, but besides that, no, as both alignments i'm usually in a more positive place in terms of reads on me, and i think i take it a little better as scum since it means i need to work harder to be townread. as town it means i need to... play better, but that's not a very easy thing to just do.

and i recognize that it's a pretty self-centered way of looking at the game, so i'm trying not to dwell, but you asked so i figure i'd try to explain.

pedit: half of me wants to say the votes don't matter when afaik most players can do HP damage at night, and the other half is realizing that i am AtEing and should stop.

[Chara]

tbh i think notsci's calling my reaction to NM scummy is what did it, i think that's a load of nothing, i think the Titus analysis in that post is nothing, the Dunn one isn't nothing but i kinda disagree with it, the Sigmund conclusion looks nothing short of a completely arbitrary sort between town and scum based on the analysis, and the conclusion on Farkran also just seems totally wrong and very arbitrary in deciding what's a nothing post and what's a clueless post. like i see no difference in terms of knowledge shown between Fark's and Bell's initial reaction to NM.

i can agree that's Wheme's reaction in particular was super towny.

[Chara]

scum knew about NM being a thing because it was from anya, town didn't.

[Chara]

sure, yeah.

in the morning can you talk more about your LLD read? like, town LLD who hit scum vs. scum LLD who bussed hard?
but most interested in your Flea read.

[Chara]

thanks. i don't have any reason to think LLD isn't just town but i thought it was interesting you just had her as gut town.

[Chara]

Like clearly you're AtEing here and it seems vaguely manipulative and I can't decide if that's a townie thing to do or a scummy thing to do when you have actual 0 votes on you.

also i felt pretty bad about my probable ateing upon reading this but looking at what actually made it to the thread i'm thinking... there really isn't anything there i should be feeling bad about. like i posted a true feeling i was having in the hopes someone would maybe help me feel less demotivated with the game, yes, but am i supposed to feel guilty about that?

[Chara]

i guess notsci can be town, yeah. it's how i feel right now, anyway.

also feeling like i kind of want to throw my Titus read in the garbage.

maybe i could do Math? i've been resistant to the wagon on some sort of nebulous principle but ultimately i don't have any great reasons to think he's town either. it's a read i don't have any belief in but seems maybe a good vote in spite of how i feel.

[Chara]

VOTE: Ircher

[Chara]

hello Dwlee!

[Chara]

@Dunn - you're probably right about the overstating scumreads. i was in a mood last night.
with the read on me, i know it's from when we were scum together. but from it being only one game i was wondering about your level of certainty.

[Chara]

i'm down to elim Flea.

[Chara]

Sigmund was only visit on LLD stratum 2.

This is the important part for verifying role

seeing this result makes me feel good.

i'd like to see Math act tonight.

i like my Ircher vote better currently but i'm not really engaged enough to not sheep LLD today.

on further consideration i think my Dunn paranoia came while i was in a weird woe is me mood and it's not that strange he townreads me, i remember the game we were scum together in and i think it's plausible he is confident about how i play scum generally.

[Chara]

VOTE: murdercat
Ircher is probably not happening anyway.

i also was kind of lukewarm on Dwlee's entrance, but curious what LLD sees there. still townread Guillotina so it's overall town.

[Chara]

VOTE: murdercat back here

I buy ndmath claim given the circumstances

Still available for voting flea, not interested in anyone else today

i'm happy we're kind of in line here.

[Chara]

didn't the Sigmund wagon fizzle because he claimed doc?

[Chara]

didn't the Sigmund wagon fizzle because he claimed doc?

Is this a response to something posted earlier?

yes, you said you fought against Sigmund's wagon, and by my memory Sigmund's elimination remained a thing until the doc claim, so i'm wondering if you meant before or after or something else.

[Chara]

No, guillo was too uptight to be scum

Guillotina was pretty towny but I don't understand this take. Is it a meta read?

i agree with it. if it is meta, not that, but while "uptight" isn't really the word i use i think Guillotina's attitude rang very genuine and very town. even if i disagreed with his methods they were consistent with what i could glean from him as a player and his reactions were consistently good.

[Chara]

@Titus - don't really agree with the theory, a hypothetical scum Math could have made the choice to watch LLD in order to trueclaim his action, or for some other reason to learn about town PRs. i don't think it would be my first instinct as a scum watcher to watch my buddies necessarily.

[Chara]

can someone protect Chara from morph.

[Chara]

obviously my perspective on it is incredibly skewed but there's just no way this is how Fark and i play as buddies.

i still townread him though.

[Chara]

i didn't, but now that you ask, who do you think should be attacked tonight based on flips?

[Chara]

I don't get it, his claim seems to be that he has none currently? Couldn't he have just used it? Did he explicitly claim he started with 0?

I'm missing a lot of context here.

Math should know by now if he had SP unless moderation is inconsistent.

[Chara]

oh that quote was accidental and yet somehow relevant.

[Chara]

i don't see why Math fakes not having SP, unless he's something like ascetic scum who thought that was a better route that admitting ascetic or just trying to lie and say yes, he didn't recover SP when the SP stealing mechanic was brought up.

[Chara]

i left because Ircher didn't have the numbers + LLD.

[Chara]

I wanted to target someone town doesn't visit, short of being a protective, so I wouldn't have to deal with someone trying to talk their way out of a guilty. Originally thought that would be Toog, with their early roleclaim + investigative abilities, but was concerned by their hammer and so instead targeted lld. No one outside of bingle/toog/lld was really in consideration for me, with those being near universal townreads at that point.

None of this makes any sense

what doesn't make sense about it?

[Chara]

i still think Flea is scum.

murdercat, i'm sorry if you're town. i don't agree with your scumreads and i don't really understand the strength of your Ircher read.
but if you're around can you talk about your NDMath read?

[Chara]

can you talk about your NDMath read

I was reading Math this way pre SP stuff, I thought the vote on me was particularly opportunistic and I trust that Titus is both town and has as strong read.

As for the claim, I was kind of hesitant to push it even though I think it could be a scum role, but I don't feel that way now that the sp stuff is out. I don't have a role that uses SP but I still generated it.

what's your thinking on why Math lied about not having SP?

[Chara]

can't believe notsci made me do a whole thirty seconds of work to see ehat alignment murdercat was in that game.

[Chara]

it was sarcasm, just a joke. though i did have to check as i hadn't seen that.

[Chara]

what's your thinking on why Math lied about not having SP?

I have no idea why it would make sense to do that. I am not factoring it into my scum read so much, I'm just not town reading the watcher claim because of it, if that makes sense.

i see what you're saying, anyway.

what about the strength of your Ircher read? as far as Ircher's takes went, the anya scumread was actually a more salient part of his ISO to me, so i would call it either a developed-ish bus vote or just a correct scumread that had some reasoning, so your read on it as too weak to be a bus vote kind of confuses me.

[Chara]

Morph, you may be the decider. Everyone seems pretty firm in their camps.

not that my opinion is going to change any minds, but it's not all that firm.

[Chara]

Why are you only responding to my scumread of you and not anyone else?

You're the person talking to me & I don't feel useful at convincing people to vote mcat.

You're just ignoring what Titus says?

NDMath responded to your post to explain and then you asked follow up questions. i don't see any conversation from Titus towards NDMath that was being ignored.

[Chara]

what about the strength of your Ircher read? as far as Ircher's takes went, the anya scumread was actually a more salient part of his ISO to me, so i would call it either a developed-ish bus vote or just a correct scumread that had some reasoning, so your read on it as too weak to be a bus vote kind of confuses me.

It was the timing of it that stuck out to me, it was a complete vanity.

But more recently it is also the fact that scum has a lot of control over the day phase given there are 5 of them (feel free to argue this point with me but imo more scum is more control, the ratio doesn't matter). Yes scum flipped D1, but that was a last minute scramble. If Ircher was scum there is no way that I go this long without being hammered.

what's the difference between Ircher as your counter and NDMath as your counter? correct me if i'm wrong, i don't remember a time when Ircher was very close to elimination.

and i don't see why scum Ircher can't vanity vote his partner. why can't it be distancing at a time where anya wasn't in that much danger yet?

[Chara]

i guess i don't find it that convincing because i don't see a reason scum NDMath would need to target you specifically to respond to, as opposed to shea's post just up above, rather than it being kind of arbitrary who he responded to.

[Chara]

if LLD is scum as you think, isn't anya being a planned bus already what your perspective is?

[Chara]

regarding NDMath, he's hovered at null with some analysis i've liked, so sitting a little above null. the watcher claim brought it up to not wanting to see him eliminated today because he is indeed a watcher and unless i'm pretty convinced a slot is scum i usually like to give the benefit of the doubt to get more results. and the no SP thing doesn't seem to have any good reasoning i've seen for why scum Math lies about it. i looked in to the Farmer role and it does seem to be a "weird" role by etrian odyssey standards.

[Chara]

I think it was an unplanned bus in response to sigmund claim and wagon stalling, but the timing is a little jumbled for me.
To be perfectly clear, I am trying to explain how scum LLD ended up leading a wagon on scum Anya, because I have a scum read on LLD, it's not the other way around

so wait, where is your scum LLD read from if not from thinking she was bussing?

[Chara]

i guess i don't find it that convincing because i don't see a reason scum NDMath would need to target you specifically to respond to, as opposed to shea's post just up above, rather than it being kind of arbitrary who he responded to.

If town and targeting someone I feel like he'd try to talk it out with one of his town reads. That math picked me after saying how uneasy he is with my slot presents an incongruency in what I think a town thought process should be. His interactions with me certainly seem like he is talking to someone he thinks is town despite, again, saying he found me scummy.

okay, i understand your perspective on this.

i don't get the same feeling that he's treating you as town from his interactions with you, they seem kind of neutral, but i can't confidently say you're wrong either. at the very least your read seems like a real one so i'm still confident your slot is town.

[Chara]

pedit this is @ murdercat: how would you say your play is different from the notsci scumgame?

i think it would be hard for me to vote NDMath here, unless i was sure you were town, he is a watcher claim i don't really scumread, and i don't think there's time for another wagon, so full disclosure on that, but if you are town i'd like to understand your reads for going forward, and that is because of your reputation.

i also thought LLD's case against anya was too confident for what was there at the time... obviously, and it made it hard to get into day 2 considering i was proven wrong and my reaction was to decide to sheep LLD. so i'm not totally unwilling to believe it was because it was a bus, but to even start thinking about that would depend on your flip anyway.

for me i don't like how criticisms of your play seem to just be met with self-meta, it makes me think you're aware of your own town patterns and are just doing your best to replicate them.

[Chara]

yeah, SS isn't going to be a wagon and notsci's vote should be somewhere.

[Chara]

White Fire too but i don't know when they last posted.

[Chara]

i don't know if i prefer this morning where i honestly didn't care to now where i feel paralyzed by indecision.

[Chara]

Oh I wanted to add this to my iso in case I flip:

I don't think Chara and math are likely to be scum together

what makes you say that?

[Chara]

VOTE: NDMath then. I think MCat is town here and hoping they're going to keep the effort level up.

i feel like this vote is going to haunt me.

[Chara]

morph, Math or MC are getting flipped today. which one do you want to flip? it seems like you want it to be MC.

[Chara]

wouldn't scum MC know the Titus guilty was fake? why would he hope that spares him?

[Chara]

that was me talking to morph?

[Chara]

i always use oxford commas.

but man you were ready to SR me, for it, huh shea? :<

[Chara]

Ah, the ambiguity of the comma strikes again. Good I can go back to unambiguously town reading chara.

it doesn't sound like an unambiguous read sir!!!

[Chara]

Shea i think the post was ADDRESSED to us, not includes us.

also you didn't answer me! do you want murdercat or Math to go down today? i know you don't want either, but one of them has to.

[Chara]

this would be why i wanted morph to commit to something. it felt like they were eagerly awaiting mc's townflip so they could be right the next day.

information-wise i think both wagons are important but i want to hit the one that's going to be a red flip. and Ircher stepping off of mc to put Math in hammer range is also something i should probably look at after the fact.

pedit: mmmm.

[Chara]

I will fight you to the death over a chara flip.

yaaay, this is the boost i needed.

should i just hammer NDMath? it still feels wrong.

[Chara]

The point that Anya was a watcher counter (and a powerful one at that) makes me more inclined to believe Math, given a little more thought. I'm fine with leaving that for a tomorrow world. Ffabd is probably right that town shooting early nights is antitown at best (See: every dancegame and hero vig I've ever witnessed), but that's not a fight I'm going to win.

VOTE: MC

shea can you explain to me for the 60th time why i should townread murdercat and why this isn't his scumgame? i've been resisting it in part because of your confidence on anya (not saying i wasn't also confident).

[Chara]

i'm also confident notsci is town. i don't remember the exact reason but i remember an interaction and then locking it in for my future self.

[Chara]

okay, maybe mc took me in but if i subtract the claim it's a nullish read vs. a townish read.

VOTE: NDMath

pedit: lmao

[Chara]

you get results?

[Chara]

i don't understand why notsci doesn't have a vote down.

[Chara]

is it bad that i'm excited we actually have dueling wagons? like not one went up one went down but wagons that are literally neck and neck right down to the wire?
it'd suck if they are both town but i dunno, i don't see it a lot. sorry for contributing to the bullshit.

[Chara]

okay i'm going to go eat and take care of life.

[Chara]

sucks that mc's trying to be transparent about night actions after his flip is what got hin eliminated.

[Chara]

Wheme's result does sound a lot more like "what your target did" than "what happened to your target" to me.

[Chara]

Wheme's result does sound a lot more like "what your target did" than "what happened to your target" to me.

i know he confirmed it's not that.

i guess it's supposed to be not very straightforward? a second result might help with decoding.

[Chara]

i appreciate you, person.

and i like the flavour here.

VOTE: Flea

pedit: not to Ircher. i'm happy to be right about Titus, not happy she's dead.

[Chara]

>Y

[Chara]

hello kitty!!!

[Chara]

>Y

The man extends his black gloved hand to shake yours. His grip is light, but warm.

"Pleased to meet you. I am grateful we could come to an agreement. I look forward to working with you on this journey."

The man smiles and pulls his hood back. Two cat-like ears poke out from amidst the short blond hair atop his head.

"By the way, my name is..."

>Give your new party member a name?

>___________

>HANS

[Chara]

so Ircher's claimed vig, and Sigmund should claim his action last night when he comes in.

pedit: while Math makes sense as the scum kill, i'm wondering if Arte was. but i think more players need to check in.

[Chara]

I feel like there may have been some fuckery with the actions stratum 0 with the Sigmund counterclaim but also Sigmund does a bunch of stupid gambity stuff as scum and I don't want to let him get away with it.

remind me of who counterclaimed Sigmund?

[Chara]

I feel like there may have been some fuckery with the actions stratum 0 with the Sigmund counterclaim but also Sigmund does a bunch of stupid gambity stuff as scum and I don't want to let him get away with it.

remind me of who counterclaimed Sigmund?

By "Sigmund counterclaim" I mean "Sigmund said Murdercat was lying and that he visited him stratum 0"

oh, i see. yes, that came at an awful time.

though the alternative to murdercat was another townflip.

[Chara]

i don't want to wagon kitty. he just got here. :<

and a town kitty is a useful asset.

[Chara]

VOTE: catboi

Alright then. My claim offer still stands; however, I'm probably not doing it if I'm only asked by one or two people.

pedit: They aren't always, but there's a good correlation.

i'll say don't claim yet. there's no need unless you're under heavy suspicion.

i mean, i certainly have reason to come around to that, but not right now.

[Chara]

i don't want to wagon kitty. he just got here. :<

and a town kitty is a useful asset.

Cool. But they replaced into a scum slot.

you'll have to convince me that was scum Fire.

[Chara]

I agree that a town kitty is very useful though. I like catboi and think he's a good town player.
It's just that the basics tell me at least one scum was off both wagons and that replace outs are more likely to be scum than not. It's not a complicated read. But I find it very likely to be accurate.

there were only two players off of both wagons, Fire and notscience. i don't see why those basics apply here given almost all of the playerlist was on a wagon. Fire's slot was off the wagon because they were lurking.

i townread Fire's early game and the read kind of dropped off due to the inactivity, for context.

i think kitty will make himself very readable today if he'd like to see the morning, too.

[Chara]

Bingle tier: Bingle

town: Dwlee99, notscience, Bell
towny: WhemeStar
town...ish: Thestatusquo, catboi

Chara is bad at this tier (aka the Pool of Paranoia): Lady Lambdadelta, Dunnstral, Morph the Cat

Ircher tier: Ircher (really in scummy leftovers but i'm having an episode)

null: Sigmund (poised to go lower), Something_Smart

scummy leftovers: Farkran, Flea The Magician

[Chara]

VOTE: Something_Smart
I actually think this might be better.

Elaborate on the scum equity of S_S over Catboi please.

They're about equal but I'm inclined to maybe give catboi a benefit of the doubt as like I said, I was mildly town reading White Fire day 1, but I can't say the same for Something_Smart.

@catboi -- Give us some reads to work with. That's probably the most useful thing for you to do to show you are town.

seriously feeling like the Ircher i was scumreading has been bodysnatched with someone i keep agreeing with.

[Chara]

Bell:

Why couldn't all scum be on one of the two wagons?

*pokes* do you really think I'm incapable of math as either alignment.

i just don't think there's any indication at least one scum is in White Fire/notscience. besides a sheer random chance angle re: votes.

[Chara]

mod-error there does suck, but i'm not too bothered by it, stuff happens sometimes. we don't have Arte's cop result, but morph is now conftown and that's worth...

something

, though a conftown bodyguard is.... yeah, okay, this is pretty unfortunate. but i see above that it's gated so morph town is still worth something.

[Chara]

i'm still dangling the Flea wagon and looking for bites.

pedit: god, i forgot Ircher killed STD too. Ircher, please stop killing my townreads. how did this happen twice?

[Chara]

oh, so it was. how many vigilantes are there? i recall Dunn's was a vig and not an attack, but i'd have to check.

[Chara]

yeah, i'm seeing that my recollection was completely wrong. so for me at least a compilation of who shot what dead player would be useful.

[Chara]

my current thought is NDMath was killed by townies, Arte was the scumkill, and Ircher's claim of killing Titus is the truth.

but i need confirmation from those townies on NDMath, and that leaves wherever the hypothetical mafia chip damage went. i do think it's possible Ircher is lying to vig-claim and Titus was killed by mafia chip damage, but that seems like a risky plan and i don't know how valid it is as an idea. but feedback is welcome.

[Chara]

Alright, I also shot at NDMath for 2 damage, and Titus dealt 1 damage the day before.

Not great, I know, I was going off of mechanical arguments + knowing people would shoot there so we'd get something + the murdercat elim being town

Titus didn't shoot Math, she shot me. don't know if you were saying she did, though.

[Chara]

the problem with not claiming chip damage we've taken is we don't know where the mafia chip damage went, but the mafia do. sure, it means they don't know who town shot, but is that information worth what we lose? the mafia can likely strongarm a kill even when they're guessing at exact HP.

[Chara]

there's 16 alive with 5 scum. so 11 vs. 5. we're ok for today but just barely, if there's another bloodbath.

[Chara]

i love how i agree with Ircher, when day 1 is the one with the scum elimination.

just try your best and read what interests you to start. i don't think there's any better way to do it besides that.

also if you wanted to pay special attention to Flea and Farkran for Chara's sake, Hans, that would be swell.

[Chara]

Simple: I read the first half of day 1, and it really wasn't worth my time. Day 2 has more interesting associative reads to form from the wagons and now known flips.

how do you get associative reads from day 2?

[Chara]

Bingle tier: Bingle, morph the cat

town: Dwlee99, notscience, Bell
towny: WhemeStar
town...ish: Thestatusquo, catboi

Chara is bad at this tier (aka the Pool of Paranoia): Lady Lambdadelta, Dunnstral

Ircher tier: Ircher (really in scummy leftovers but i'm having an episode)

null: Sigmund (poised to go lower), Something_Smart

scummy leftovers: Farkran, Flea The Magician

@Hans

this post is a quote of a previous list, now slightly updated thanks to morph.

[Chara]

given Sigmund's testimony contradicted murdercat's, i'm still willing to give Wheme the benefit of the doubt.

pedit: i still think Flea is scum. this read has been strengthened by the deaths.

[Chara]

morph, i know you're conftown and all, and speaking facetiously, but i don't appreciate being addressed as a part of the fuckers collective when you have me in your scumpile.

[Chara]

shoot Flea tonight and i'm happy, Ircher.

[Chara]

morph, i know you're conftown and all, and speaking facetiously, but i don't appreciate being addressed as a part of the fuckers collective when you have me in your scumpile.

I was highlighting the reads that flipped town. Everything south of null is in flux RN.

eh, i had two hard townreads vigged on two separate nights. shit sucks sometimes.

[Chara]

i'm pretty terrible at casing, but i do believe pretty strongly Flea is scum. i think faer Sigmund read in particular feels very faked.

[Chara]

i don't mind putting a full claims list together but i swear to god, if i put the work in and then someone else just strolls in with a completed list, i'll start crying uncontrollably.

pedit: because Titus attacked me night 1, not Math. i already corrected this.

[Chara]

Titus used her SP debuff on Math, and she attacked me for 1 damage.

[Chara]

I do think Flea is way more likely to be scum based off of:

Other unrelated scumreads flipping town and needing someone to be mafia this game
Their insistence that they were being tunneled when they weren't
Their play yesterday fitting with scum who sees two town players getting wagoned

i'm in agreement with this. it's partially a poe read, but it has to do with faer play not being believably town, and in particular the mentions of being tunneled on Sigmund have felt very self aware and not like town who is actually on a read they're wondering is town.

also i'm working on the claims post. and i don't have a hood.

[Chara]

You learn if you were targeted by any actions, or specific ones?

Any actions, and I don't get info about who or what
Given I have no interest in attacking people until much later I figured I could at least try to confirm something later (or even catch someone in a lie), but no one targeted me either night and no one claimed to.

Okay maybe when "targeted by actions" they have to succeed? I guess it is possible, but I don't feel like that really makes sense. Alert typically just learns when they were visited but it could have to be the successful actions?

All good, I would have lived if it weren't for that CC I'm sure of it

This feels scum-claimy but I guess we will just find out when the flip happens.

unrelated to claims trawling but i still think Dwlee is town.

[Chara]

[Living Players]
morph the cat:
- visited Sigmund night 1
- submitted bodyguard on Artemiana night 2 (mod-confirmed action, failed due to mod error)
- had SP stolen by Artemiana on night 0

Dunnstral:
- attacked and did 2 damage to STD on night 1
- did 2 damage to NDMath on night 2

catboi:
- attacked Artemiana on night 1
- did not attack night 2
- was attacked night 2

Ircher:
- was attacked night 1
- attacked notscience night 1
- attacked catboi night 2
- did lethal damage to Titus night 2
- claims notsci attacked him night 1, i can't find the confirmation of that right now

Sigmund:
- innate ability to heal damage, SP ability to protect from kills
- healed murdercat night 0
- protected LLD night 1

WhemeStar:
- investigates what happened to a target at night
- visited Sigmund night 1, received: alone but troubled. The scenery is filled with clouds. He tries his best, but his best was not needed.

notscience:
- attacked on night 1, Ircher claims the shot

Chara:
- attacked on night 1 by Titus

Something_Smart:
- created a hood with someone night 1

[Dead Players]
Artemiana:
- stole SP from morph night 0
- was not able to use her parity cop before her death, did fakeclaim a guiltt result on Titus

Save The Dragons:
- dead night 1 via chip damage, had 3 HP
- 2 damage claimed by Dunn, 1 unknown

NDMath:
- dead night 2 via presumably chip damage, had 5 HP to start
- 2 damage claimed by Dunn on night 2
- watched mastina night 0, no visits
- watched Sigmund visit LLD night 1

Titus:
- dead night 2, lethal damage kill claimed by Ircher
- attacked Chara for 1 damage night 1
- stopped NDMath from recovering SP night 1

these are all claims, at various levels of confirmed. dead town can be assumed to be fully truthful. Arte's fakeclaim was included only for clarity for replacements.

[Chara]

Flea probably town from D1 TVT.

very interested in this one. i like to think i'm good at finding the town in TvTs. can you go more in depth later?

morph i'll wait to update the big post in case of more corrections, thanks for that one.

[Chara]

i'm not happy with today being massclaim day. it feels like the wrong move to eliminate based on mechanics this game day.

[Chara]

oh well. it'll be okay. day 1 scum elims lose games after all!

Maybe you are onto something

of course i was. it was kind of a joke, kind of a nod to a potentially fictional, perceived trend in games i've personally played where eliminating scum day 1 ends up causing problems in some way.

i see now we aren't committed to massclaiming, Bingle is just going over the idea. well, you know my opinion.

[Chara]

Not reading 223 pages. Can someone catch me up on importa info/what happened?

we hit scum day 1, main driver of that was LLD, day 2 ended with a very even split between what ended up being two town, who are now both also dead.

sorry it's barebones. Bingle and morph are both conftown, and there's a claims post recently in my ISO that needs updating given some corrections. this is outed claims, not a massclaim thing.

if your slot attacked any dead players, please claim it.

[Chara]

tempted to discard the Dunn paranoia, but i also have this feeling Dunn puts more (as in, the way he's playing now) into the game as scum? but i don't have recent meta and i don't want to put stock in such a vague feeling.

pretty upset about losing shea but it is what it is.

pedit: calling first is interesting.
Dwlee, please read Flea's ISO. it isn't long. :>

[Chara]

Votecount 1.12

Adventurers

:

Sigmund [9]:

Save the Dragons,

Flea the Magician,

NDMath, MURDERCAT, Bingle,

Thestatusquo, Chara,

Artemiana,

Guillotina

Anya [9]:

aircher, Lady Lambdadelta,

Titus, morph the cat,

Bell, Sigmund, Dunnstral, WhemeStar, notscience
Flea the Magician [2]: White Fire, Farkran,
Lady Lambdadelta [1]:

Anya

Not Voting [2]: Not_Mafia, Something_Smart,

Toogeloo

With 23 alive it takes 13 to eliminate. Stratum 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-04 22:25:25).

[/color]

a relevant VC from right before Sigmund's claim.

i don't have a VC that shows when Flea had more votes, and i don't know how many fae had, but it was before this. fae had 4 votes by the end of day 1 when anya was eliminated.

i'm not a VCA player, but i will have opinions anyway probably.

[Chara]

no. this was presented neutrally with what additional info i had for context. plus i'm voting Flea.

i think Sigmund was anya's counterwagon, who fizzled after the doc claim. i believe Flea could be scum. i don't have exact vote information from before this VC, but i'm thinking scum Flea vs. town Sigmund was the situation. and if Sigmund is scum i doubt Flea is.

pedit: this is @Dwlee.

[Chara]

thanks Dunn. that's what i remembered but i didn't realize bork had important day 1 vcs. let's say i'm not "detail-oriented".

[Chara]

at a glance it looks like the anya voters were largely composed of Flea voters. i don't think it's impossible that we had two scum wagons and those voters ended up switching from one to the other.

[Chara]

i don't understand why we can't vote. no one's getting quick-elimmed here. i can't read wagons if players aren't voting. it's 9 to elim right now.

pedit: lmao

[Chara]

i don't believe that scum can instant win with one more mis-elimination. that'd require like 5 kills.

[Chara]

@Flea - i'd happily take a response from you and general hunting/some more reads as you catch up if you're up for it, if you're town and want to get me to fix my read.

[Chara]

shea was already replaced, by T3.

[Chara]

my version of crumbing is i hate crumbing.

[Chara]

if this is just massclaim day i'm going to check out hard, which is a shame because i was so full of game energy this morning. at least Dwlee is making gut lists. love you Dwlee.

[Chara]

I genuinely don't get why people think maasclaim means they can't do other shit. Can you not walk and talk at the same time?

i'm aware. i'm sure you're also aware that when A Thing is happening conversation tends to be about the thing. i can't singlehandedly make regular thread content happen, and afternoon Chara is far lazier than morning Chara.

pedit: kind of funny notsci had been decreed to go before me. :>

also fuck hold on.

[Chara]

Chara (Imperial)

Night 0 attack: No one
Night 1 attack: No one
Night 2 Attack: Ircher for 1 damage

i can confirm my attack was successful.

[Chara]

Dwlee high-five for attacking the Titus murderer fruitlessly with me.

[Chara]

I'd be interested in analysis of catboi/LLD's list/Dwlee's list if you're looking for something to engage with.

i feel like i should be more clear since i apparently haven't been: i don't have the energy. i tend to regain mafia energy when i see other players doing fruitful things, or i get spite energy if i think useless things are happening. my comment about taking a step back today due to massclaim was simply a statement of fact, something i know about myself and how i tend to react to this kind of environment. it doesn't mean i'm going to stop playing as i would otherwise out of spite, or something.

and ffery, the opinion was i think Flea is scum from those VCs, as i said a few posts later.

[Chara]

the most interesting thing about Dwlee's list is probably Ircher's placement on it. what changed your mind, Dwlee?

[Chara]

i'm hoping Flea comes back with more opinions on the state of things. i'm sympathetic to faer comment about lacking the spell slots to deal with mafia on day 2, so i'm not reading faer on activity levels.

i thought 5867 was a pretty good reason re: Sigmund, but more real time interaction would make me happiest.

[Chara]

Bingle: yeah, i get you. i'll do my best here too. just being crotchety.

i was actually for claiming our shots. it's full massclaiming i like much less.

pedit: i just picked my favourite catboy.

[Chara]

<3

[Chara]

Guillotina's avatar isn't even a lion.

[Chara]

Chara, cosmic zone time.

In your ISO I can't see anything you say that mentions any sort of serious read on me outside of PoE and while I don't appear as often as I thought I did, there is a number of weird lil nudges to try and get a me wagon to stick, ain't the first time I've seen this but I wanna know what it is that's drawing your attention to me because its fairly clear that you're on me for something more than PoE. I wanna know what you're thinking. Right now, I don't think you're scum motivated. Purely because I don't think you know my playstyle enough to try and limp in an elimination on me like that. While I don't know your style that much, you strike me as someone who can and will go all in on a push on to remove someone like me from the game as scum.


If that makes any damn sense I'll be amazed. Its far too warm here and I'm knackered lol

a large part of it is PoE right now, but i think the biggest part of it is you caught my attention early and there hasn't been anything that's changed my mind. when i get a read that i want to figure out, i tend to hold on to it until i've made my mind up either way or i throw my hands up in the air and say i have no idea. i think you're readable which is why you've kept my attention, and the way the votes have moved around your slot this game is also interesting to me, in a "i could see this being scum" kind of way. honestly, the biggest part your play has played in the read so far is that it's failing to hit town for me, and i'm a townhunter so a player that i can't find the town in usually rings scum.

there are other slots i've poed out but for various reasons haven't felt like pushing, if i become convinced you're town i would move off of you, and if you are i'd like to know. this happened with murdercat, and to a much lesser degree with notsci iirc, to give an example of how i try to work.

i'm finding you hard to pin down, and the sort of giggling <3 reactions to scumreads on you is throwing me too. does it actually amuse you? it seems kind of fake but fake in an NAI way. what's your read on Fire/catboi and Dunn, again?

i would say as scum i'm not sure i'd approach you any differently. i try to take this sort of plodding, not heavy-handed approach as scum because i try to replicate my towngame, and i don't really tend to come in with the big hits as either alignment i think, unless i'm very sure as town or really need the elim as scum, but i guess it depends. maybe as scum i am more assertive with your slot.

and yes, it made sense.

[Chara]

Morph's list probably looks like it wins the game for 2-3 days, then slowly loses the game and people wonder whatever happened to their poor won game and then 2 months later oops scum in the green and yellow.

i kind of don't plan on mindlessly sheeping morph. i agree with some of the reads but it's not my roadmap.

[Chara]

i lied

i can't pull myself away from the website

i'm an addict

anyway i get why you think my role sounds scummy

but like

i'd never bother claiming it this way as scum

i'd just make something else up

and i feel like that should be obvious




but i joined this game to mess around and have fun and this game has suddenly become very much not that in the past few hours

so rather than waste my time continuing to try to read all 200 pages

just stack damage on me tonight so i can die and flip town and get out of here



i have 3 hp left, go figure out who you want to murder me

:< you are the thing holding me together in this game and you just entered it.

[Chara]

i could do T3.

i kind of don't want to get involved in this aspect of the argument but i feel like the taunting or whatever cute vibe morph is going for should maybe be put to bed?

pedit: i mean, yeah, scum is what we're going for here.

i also really doubt catboi is that scum and i've been doubting it more and more as he's posted. initially i was just happy to see him but yeah, genuine read there.

[Chara]

I'm not going to be feelsbadman'd out of this. I'm not taunting LLD at this point. I get that she is obligated to feel that way for the sake of shaking me off. I respect that. She is PLAYING TO WIN.

I'd like to think that we can calm down and murder each other peacefully, but in the game this is a social game about murdering each other and it means stuff is gonna involve flipping out and getting mad. Nobody likes being fed into a woodchipper.

i dunno, i mean, there's a difference between playing to eliminate scum and making jokes about how much a player has invited their own death, etc, when they've already said they're upset. like, there's no way you're sure she's scum, and i have a problem with pressing players emotionally in a negative way to try and make them "show their true colours" or whatever.

i don't think you've done anything i'd personally find all that objectionable, i just think... i don't know, you could be kinder about it? this is a game we're playing.

[Chara]

like, play to win is the rule. it's not fun if everyone isn't trying to win. but it's also not fun when people aren't kind to each other. not to sound like a fucking after school special or anything but this game's vibes have been rank, and catboi repping out is a major bummer too.

pedit:
VOTE: T3

[Chara]

after some thought Farkran's out of my scumpile. i think he's genuinely disapointed with his reads this game and needs a boost. unfortunately i'm incapable of giving that right now, but... moods are mutable. if you're reading this Fark, i'm glad you're here. i'm trying very hard to keep myself invested.

and Bingle's here. he's a cool guy. this isn't a read, i'm just noting that he is cool.

[Chara]

he dropped hard in the last list i posted because of other reads.

[Chara]

and because the reasons i had for townreading him didn't really stand the test of time.

pedit: yeah i'm trying not to read into rep-outs.

[Chara]

i feel like SS has been pretty... helpful, all game? he chimes in on mech, he offers commentary, pretty sure he's been asking questions and trying to make things understandable, at one point i definitely compared him to a helpful college classmate you offer to buy coffee for.

[Chara]

I don’t really feel it reflects on us though. Or his alignment.

yeah, i can agree. i know that's what you were saying.

[Chara]

I dunno. I feel like we've held our tempers pretty well considering what's been dished at us. I mean, I've seen some serious insults hurled and I don't think we've responded in kind.

i'm not condemning you nor patting you on the back for how well you've managed to keep your emotions in check. i'm just asking you to try and be nice. and the game as a whole.

not returning insults is a low bar to hold oneself to.

don't want to talk about this further though, just wanted to say my dumb piece.

[Chara]

how do you expect town LLD reacts, morph? i'm addressing you two as a collective because you don't sign and i can't tell you apart no matter how obvious you say it is. :>

[Chara]

VOTE: t3
Hi friends let's vote this but also we can get notty to 5 maybe.

cool with this.

i'm curious about SS's claim at this point. i do think it's very possible he's scum.

[Chara]

Answering this will likely kick off another twenty pages of back of forth. Do you still want my answer?

not if it's going to be made out to be my fault if the thread shits itself.

yes, i'd like your answer.

[Chara]

kajfskaehuekahgajkdfjekbgjkhjk
paranoia on flea wtf
Flea sounds way too towny @_@
Those little spoiler titles. This is the first time I've had an issue with them. I feel like I've seen them before but normally those are original but then ig its not AI since I've seem faer as scum and town and never noticed this. But it could also be put there just to get town reads as people remember old games. mmmmm lemme find the posts that im referencing. This might take a hot hour or so

yeah Flea has been beating the hell out of my SR on faer today.

[Chara]

You don't need to be sorry, but I'm also not going to ignore this

this just makes me feel like it's NDMath 2.0.

i feel like i remember you saying another role this game was "too weak" but i don't remember the context. but ultimately it feels like deciding alignment based on what you think a claim implies is the wrong way to go.

[Chara]

so that's two town players who claimed truthfully and found their roles suspected based on assumptions made about the setup. i just don't think you have the information to make that judgement about Flea's claimed role.

pedit: i TR Dunn, i just think he's wrong about the role thing.