Situation Room [Game Over!]

[OkaPoka]

BoPable?

[OkaPoka]

Dann, why do my posts come from the perspective of someone filling space and not a method to engage?

And I'm having difficulty following your current townreads because of how easily you flipped on one of your strongest.

Your position on me feels convenient for you, since there's been little challenge to your takes in the game thus far that I've seen.

~~~

Oka, walk me through your lim pool because it seems to change 1 or 2 people each time you bring it up, and you don't seem to care where the lim on the pool lands as long as it's the majority of the plist backing it.

i do care where the lim lands, but there just hasn't been a wagon i really ~oppose. i dont feel like being a pain in the ass on d1 about lims especially on slots that i am personally indifferent on so its w/ever. sure i have preferences, but im not confident enough to force those preferences and there is nobody in this list where i have a mixture of trusting their reads and trusting their slot to force their preferences either.

in addition i am not a contrarian.

my lim pool looks like yuri > guilty > dann > gamma = cupcake = whoever replaced solo > lurkers

[OkaPoka]

im gamma town fakegod scum i thinkie

[OkaPoka]

actually maybe fakegod scum always, fakegod a smart guy idk why he's wants a 6th neighorhood

[OkaPoka]

yuri if ur really want to die you should leave wagon, we need big neighborhoods (this for you bell) to create as much buffer as possible in case of a scum coup since there is a chance we try and NL in every neighborhood except a designated one

[OkaPoka]

I've found that most accusations of too much mechspeak not enough content usually come from mafia.

good man

[OkaPoka]

im ok with leaving the wagon/neighborhood as long as bingle is in it or someone says that they like the mech

[OkaPoka]

ahh why did a50 have to replace solo i kinda want to BoP a50 because even though i never understand a single word he's somehow right usually but then adfasd003rmdsafdasfi8h2onmlADS>F?W?Q@

[OkaPoka]

its a good quickhammer

[OkaPoka]

fakegod and dusa begins my towncore

[OkaPoka]

my play around gamma is simply a work of art, nobody can replicate the intricate black box known as my logic

i agree yuri, oka, std has scum in it

[OkaPoka]

yuri can i borrow you to vote lim gl today i promise to lim you after

[OkaPoka]

dance players understand

[OkaPoka]

omg u actually did it

[OkaPoka]

i appreciate it bell for preventing me from getting venge'd

[OkaPoka]

akshully should i locktown fakegod and throw away the key HMMDFASDMGASD)F!@#!@-CX

[OkaPoka]

yuri can i borrow you to vote lim gl today i promise to lim you after

are you ignoring the point I just made about how my lack of presence in this game was specifically due to dedicating my time trying to win a F3 limlo in another game in which I was heavily suspected as town

why do you think I'm scum

i was fully aware of the divide and conquer game the entire time

im thinking whether your vote on gamma was a tmi or not

[OkaPoka]

ok guilty i have decided you can be town for today

[OkaPoka]

whatever
Seems like you jerks have decided I’m scum and are trying to route every argument to that conclusion again

VOTE: gamma

yolo stonks

VOTE: yuri

[OkaPoka]

to carry us one step further

[OkaPoka]

u fell into my evil trap yuri now i can say omgus on you instead of you saying omgus on me hahahaa

[OkaPoka]

GUILTY CHECK NEIGHBORHOOD PT U SEE DIS

[OkaPoka]

WHY

[OkaPoka]

UR LITERALLY ON AN ALT

[OkaPoka]

AND IF HE SIGNED UP FOR GAME FOR THAT REASON IT MEANS HE IS TOWN BECAUSE?

[OkaPoka]

yuri please call my case trash in this thread instead of the neighborhood pt

[OkaPoka]

it's not that he signed up that way

it's the way he's acting about it

you mean being a dick about it? how is that ai

[OkaPoka]

u are questioning why i signed for the game in pt, then you are telling me to shut up when im obviously trying to be a lil funny, then you decided to call my push on you trash in the pt for some reason?

[OkaPoka]

then i mean you are labelling this game as unfun which idk feels like an attack on me, like im making this game unfun for you which can possibly be true but like cmon

[OkaPoka]

i feel like you are using harsher language in the neighborhood pt directed at me then you were when we are going at it d1. you were being all the oh i don't see the game that way okapoka in here but in there you are like wow trash garbage bye bye

[OkaPoka]

I guess my two questions are firstly (1) why do you think it's contradictory for me to both want to shut down mechtalk and to say that I want to sheep a townread on it later? like I feel like your reason in 758 is ascribing thoughts to me that I just don't have and idk why you're doing that as opposed to the opposite. talking specifically about the "something you say to look townie"... like no, that's just where my head was at. and secondly regarding that same post is that while I suppose I get you seeing me not wanting mechtalk and going "yeah this is something I've seen scum do before" but it seems like a flawed basis for a read given that yes, I'd be saying that if I were scum, but I'm saying it now as town because I just have an intense apathy towards mechtalk

the other thing is that I don't really see how (2) the fact I'm being contradictory to your eyes leads you to me being scum? like fine, maybe it is hypocritical for me to take that position (still don't think it is, but let's say I can't sell you on that) -- I don't get from like 759 why this leads you into thinking I'm scum?

I think ive answered the first q already

Second q, i think you decided to be more open to mech afterwards rather than coming into it being open to mech

Hypocritical not bc two ideas really but bc i think you decided to purposely alter your beliefs to be more defensible

And its not a case of changing ur mind i think that is contextually clear

ig how id picture scum you:

"I need to take a stance, let's just say i hate mech and im going to make a quick comment about vigging these nerds so I can put myself out there and maybe get townread for my boldness"
"ah wait, just being antimech is not a ground i want to fight on, maybe ill just be anti talking about mech so im a lil more nuanced and such"

if you were town
"i don't like talking about mech i will shoot you if you talk about mech"
"but also ill sheep someone on mech that i townread"

i feel like its harder for me to justify the second world

[OkaPoka]

oh you know whats even better yuri wanted to mechtalk eod d1 and then when the mech got involved and someone asked him to move off wagon he was like nah i suspect yuri just wants to bomb mech outta here

[OkaPoka]

i lost myself in the train of thought but the specific reason why i think its contradictory is that someone who shuts down mech talk is not someone who claims to will sheep someone else's mech plan later i think. i think you just ignore mech talk in that case.

It’s not contradictory but *shrug*

I hate mechtalk, I think it’s boring and kills the game, it kills my motivation to play when the thread is drowning in it, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t acknowledge the importance of not playing a mechanically awful strategy, and while I’m not that interested in engaging in it much, that doesn’t mean I’m not able to evaluate the relative merits of different plans/that I won’t make some effort to try and follow someone who has spent time trying to work it out

What I don’t want is that continuing through the middle of the day when that time is far better spent on scumhunting and actually sorting people. Mechtalk can be saved for EoD when there’s a clear D1 lim and the question is how to organise votes on it

Yuri off.

nah

[OkaPoka]

no its a perfectly reasonable take to have

[OkaPoka]

do you think its reasonable for town to want to keep someone alive who is actively working to sabotage town's win conditions because they don't give a fuck now?

[OkaPoka]

like what

[OkaPoka]

you just admitted you don't even care to help town

[OkaPoka]

im annoyed this setup is hard enough and i like to try and have a semblance of a shot at winning this setup

[OkaPoka]

and if i cant presume good faith adsifasdif

[OkaPoka]

1088 doesn’t make sense

If my whole plan as scum is to t and get TR for boldness then why do I not double down on the mechtalk sucks and I’ll shoot anyone who keeps partaking of it

Whereas you’re ruling out my feeling of “this is something I find boring but I want to at least not throw and ideally get some advtange from mechanics” as being the less likely scenario here bc ???

because mechtalk sucks is not exactly a comfortable stance to stand on, you will permanently have people scumreading you if you just say i will kill all mechtalk whereas a more nuanced pos might be able to throw some heat off

[OkaPoka]

you've pretty much demonstrated you are doing worse than eliminate mech talk, you are actively sabotaging town's plan of doing mech

[OkaPoka]

yeah i thought you were scummy for that back and forth but a lot of that at the time was because i didn't feel strongly on anyone else and its the best we had i mean i did vote other people did i not?

this is different now

[OkaPoka]

tell me what was better

[OkaPoka]

yes i did examine the wagon

[OkaPoka]

next question

[OkaPoka]

im going to try my hand at vca wrt to yuri wagon, hi titus

dgb unvote at the time it happened (when guilty voted) probably means dgb/yuri maybe aligned? at least if yuri is town, dgb town stonks go way up while yuri is scum, dgb scum stonks go slightly up.

guilty/unowen/dusa all have slight +scum equity i suppose for blind sheeping me in a way and scum probably want to be on lead wagons regardless of yuri's alignment. however its unlikely that all three r scum. 1 or 2 probs yeah? rule of three maybe?

bell unknown because he was first vote and is not really related to this.

add titus to the guilty/unowen/dusa i think because i think titus would understand how the setup works

i don't think yuri's alignment really changes after being wagoned, scum probably just want to be on a leading wagon and i think someone like yuri wouldn't say in scum pt, don't wagon me u lil shits

receipts

[OkaPoka]

do you want receipts on some of these i do have receipts

[OkaPoka]

thats cool

[OkaPoka]

i ran you up yuri, do i need to take a spiritual journey of self reflection for running you up?

[OkaPoka]

meh

this is the last thing im going to say wrt to yuri because doing this is absolute misery for me and ive done it before and its been misery every time and not even a red flip made me feel better about the game before and it wont make me feel better about this game either

yuri is either in my mind, town who is playing in such a way that i consider playing against win condition. now you might not consider it playing against wincon, but i consider playing actively in a way that you consider to be -EV, not playing to wincon. im not accusing yuri of breaking site rules i want to make that clear. i just believe that yuri is lowering the bar for the game in such a way that if he's town, there is literally nothing stopping scum from thinking they need to at least play protown and having that being a consideration for scum leads to a whole different experience.

or he's scum that is all.

[OkaPoka]

yep im aware site rules have that but to me its not like that, if you are aware of better ways to play and its feasible and you aren't doing it, based on the lingo i use i consider it playing against win con. im not accusing yuri of the playing against win con the site defines it as.

league metaphor

yuri went to ultimate bravery for his builds. thats what im accusing yuri of.

[OkaPoka]

and i dont want to say suboptimal because i reserve suboptimal for people who believe they are playing correctly or are unaware of optimal. yuri is aware, its not like what he has to do this game is hard in fact it takes more effort to do what he's doing, he's just claiming he's doing it for the sake of fun. ok now that's actually my final piece

[OkaPoka]

and finally to make this clear because i want to make it clear if yuri is town i am not accusing him of breaking any rules thank you

[OkaPoka]

sure but a game of dnd is not meant to be munchkin'd from what im aware of dnd

[OkaPoka]

i personally have the expectation that everyone is fully maximizing their individual chance of winning the current singular game they are in

[OkaPoka]

to a reasonable extent of course

[OkaPoka]

id agree with you bingle but there are extenuating circumstances in my opinion.

[OkaPoka]

Those extenuating circumstances are?

i feel like its clear from my iso and i dont really feel like rehashing it sorry

[OkaPoka]

Ill make a post for yuri later.

Bingle, yuri is misrepresenting his mech issues. He has demonstrated not just wanting to not post in neighborhoods, but has also explicitly stated the desire to ignore any plans of leashing votes and joining as many neighborhoods as possible because he "doesn't care to help town". Interpret that as policy idc

[OkaPoka]

Wanting to post in neighborhood*

[OkaPoka]

Oka that’s completely disregarding the context of everything else that’s happened in the game between those two posts

Like I was looking forward to this game, then it started, got progressively less enjoyable for me and so by the end of day I really didn’t give a fuck about trying to do anything to help town if it was anything that I didn’t already want to do

I knew I wanted to be on neighbourhood and so I wasn’t getting off

Same thing today — I’ll be getting on once any wagon is near, and I won’t be getting off

[OkaPoka]

ehh ill make the post now

yuri thanks for the reach out, but me having a bad time should never be your concern. i think there is a line between trying so hard where you track wrs and are mad about people not reading correctly and just playing where you are broad strokes making the right decisions, but still ultimately playing to win rather than make the game harder for everyone else in a quantifiably annoying way you know.

i think neighborhoods use should be reserved as something only out of necessity. if there is a lot of content going in neighborhoods, then i mean how fun is it to the people not in the neighborhoods that they are missing out on things that are progressing? if we just let first come first serve dictate neighborhoods, i think that presents a whole host of issues where basically we have ms.net survival of the active, and ultimately people who can't just be on the site as much are less likely to get into the neighborhoods even if other people want them in. leashing votes in and pausing neighborhood activity is the equal thing to do, the point of government and communism is to protect those who can't protect themselves and idk, sounds like capitalism to me when you throw this all into the wind and say fuck you, i will get mine and you can get yours and we are going to create this oligarchical bounds to exclude others from the ability to help out. we are going to create this political backroom dealings. sounds a lot like capitalism to me. i question your very faith to the worker's republic and party.

[OkaPoka]

what is more oligarchical than exclusive rooms of power where only certain people can talk?

what is more capitalist than designing a system that only allows those most active, most fit, to grab all the power?

what is more antithetical to the idealism of marx and engels than the very system that sparked their critique, capitalism?

are we not to design a more perfect system that includes everyone, lets everyone be heard equally on the merits on the worlds rather than timing of of their votes? that lets everyone hear everything rather than hide behind veils of these so called politicians? are you not following the very plague that has diseased the pigs of the west, oppressing the proletariat as they suck the boots of the bourgeoise?

[OkaPoka]

the americans for too long have promised this dream to prop of their system of injustice, this american dream where fun and prosperity will be given to those who work hard. but they lie, the american dream comes at a cost to the unfortunate! and you want this american nightmare for the rest of us! yuri gagarin i accuse you of being a capitalist double agent! for undermining party ideals!

[OkaPoka]

he's been brainwashed so heavily by the american propaganda he does not even understand the doctrine of the party!

[OkaPoka]

its a shame, once the yuri i knew was the pride of the nation! a demonstration of how any man, with the full support and might of the nation could reach space. how our nation could outshine the strongest of western nations through superior ideology.

but now we've fallen behind, our youths, our heroes have fallen ill to the disease of capitalism, greed, and social darwinism. they have let our party be plagued, and a cleansing is a necessity. it is time to start a purge, from the top!

[OkaPoka]

Bell, do you hear the whispers of the old gods?

[OkaPoka]

Bell they say

It's time to serve your lord. A blood sacrifice must be made to appease us they say.

We hunger for the flesh of the man who has felt the void. Who has met the sky lord they say.

[OkaPoka]

sorry i was unconscious what was going on

[OkaPoka]

THATS WHERE HE-MAN MEME CAME FROM?

[OkaPoka]

DO YOU DENOUNCE CAPITALISM?

[OkaPoka]

DO YOU DENOUNCE OLIGARCHS AND ELITISM?

[OkaPoka]

DO YOU ACCEPT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, TO PROTECT THOSE WHO CANNOT BE PROTECTED? TO LET THOSE WE NEED CONTRIBUTE WHAT THEY CAN RATHER THAN TAKING IT FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE WE CAN?

[OkaPoka]

bingle did you know that yuri feels doubtful on dusa's alignment?

[OkaPoka]

i tried roleplaying yuri

[OkaPoka]

i just dont understand why you cant post thing here i feel like giving everyone the same amount of information is kinda a good thing? figuring out who has asymmetrical information is like a core part of scumhunting. why did someone get venge'd? hard to make that deliberation when you dont' have perfect information and idk we want to make it harder. at the very least i want the fact that my understanding to be wrong to be solely at the feet that i suck complete ass at the game rather than having any chance of blaming other circumstances and mistakenly out of pure ego be like oohhhhhhh that's why i was wrong, no i want to look at this game in 3 months and be like yes i was a complete idiot and i still continue to suck at this game but that's okay because it was i who sucked and i who am to be wholly blamed.

[OkaPoka]

yuri do you think that our entire hood is all town?

[OkaPoka]

ok well id assume scum would leak everything in their pt anyways im just here to neutralize the advantage we are giving them as much as possible

[OkaPoka]

yuri did you know that dusa led the charge on gamma?

[OkaPoka]

unless you want to don the crown of BoP me i am god i carry trust and say everyone else is a worthless peon of a player who will only hold you back, i consider that advantage negligible compared to the advantage of letting everyone "cross-examine" everything at the same time so we are all in the know

[OkaPoka]

bingle did you know that DGB finds STD lots mores scummy than usual ?

[OkaPoka]

actually why is dgb posting in hood and not here

[OkaPoka]

who's outting it tho

[OkaPoka]

and isn't it pretty important for everyone to know that dgb isn't gone from the game. dgb has been posting in hood recently...

[OkaPoka]

if i was not in the hood id be pretty frustrated to hear that activity was happening in the hood and i couldnt see it? id beg for information and leaks and being told to wait is not it. i find the real time evolution of a game to be the most thrilling part of the game, finding out about someone's reads 3 days after it passes doesn't capture the same emotional feeling. its jarring in a way, like you are replacing in the game but everything about the game is kinda just out of sync.

here's the issue yuri and the real core issue i think. you think that me leaking info is a unilateral decision that ruins individual gameplay. id argue that not leaking and not taking action when its possible is a unilateral decision in it of itself, and if i would want others to leak it for me, regardless of the consequence, id be a hypocrite not to leak it myself, and while i might slightly make your attempts at gambitting slightly worse, i think id improve everyone else's ability.

and ultimately, i don't trust you to be town. i don't trust people who use the hood to be locktown. i see the hood as an excellent device to lay common ground with little consequence in order to pocket certain people while escaping the purview of others. if you were confirmed town, i wouldn't leak it, but its a balance. if you are scum its always good to leak, if you are town its good and bad to leak. im going to leak.

[OkaPoka]

i get you say let people play their game. if like idk, someone i very townread, like bell or fakegod or dusa maybe were using the hood, id be more hesitant to leak stuff. but im not going to hesitate to leak if i dont trust. im legit voting you and you are asking why i want to leak your stuff. dgb is legit posting in hood and not here and you are questioning why leak dgb's stuff.

[OkaPoka]

like to me, you are basically arguing that roleblockers shouldn't roleblock because it might make certain prs have less fun. lmfao

[OkaPoka]

a50 is one of the few slots id move to conditioned on bingle's read

[OkaPoka]

if i was not in the hood id be pretty frustrated to hear that activity was happening in the hood and i couldnt see it? id beg for information and leaks and being told to wait is not it. i find the real time evolution of a game to be the most thrilling part of the game, finding out about someone's reads 3 days after it passes doesn't capture the same emotional feeling. its jarring in a way, like you are replacing in the game but everything about the game is kinda just out of sync.

here's the issue yuri and the real core issue i think. you think that me leaking info is a unilateral decision that ruins individual gameplay. id argue that not leaking and not taking action when its possible is a unilateral decision in it of itself, and if i would want others to leak it for me, regardless of the consequence, id be a hypocrite not to leak it myself, and while i might slightly make your attempts at gambitting slightly worse, i think id improve everyone else's ability.

and ultimately, i don't trust you to be town. i don't trust people who use the hood to be locktown. i see the hood as an excellent device to lay common ground with little consequence in order to pocket certain people while escaping the purview of others. if you were confirmed town, i wouldn't leak it, but its a balance. if you are scum its always good to leak, if you are town its good and bad to leak. im going to leak.

then respectfully you should have gotten in on the hood earlier if you feel that way? again, hoods are part of the setup, using them is personally something I find enjoyable and I feel like you're undermining me via posting everything I say here

like what do you think is the advantage that I'm gaining as scum from posting in the hood and not here? do you think I really expect that information to stay secret long term? plus you're also assuming that there's going to be like significant delay in how long it takes for what's taking place there to find its way out into main thread

I don't see how it improves everyone else's ability because one of the main things it makes me want to do is, simply, not play? like if you're going to undermine what I see as one of the fundamental things I was looking forward to its a lot harder to care beyond just getting pissed off about it, which I'm trying very hard to avoid doing

how is the hood going to lay ground to pocket people if there's an expectation that whatever is in there is going to be outed? if you think hat's what I'm doing, WHO exactly am I trying to pocket?

because posting to an audience is how scum gets townread? its why i can do well as scum early and fall off, because the people i try to pocket also are the people i want to nk and then oopsie doopsie. even if things get outted, i can't out certain stuff like the emotions and tones of how you are posting, i can't know whats important that you've posted, i can only hope to transmit enough information so that you are either dissuaded from posting in the neighborhood or ive captured your posts well enough to dissuade you from trying to pocket at the very least.

and the thing is yuri, if you are mod confirmed town, maybe, i wouldnt leak. but i don't know if you are using the guise of fun to trying to get me off your back and ive weighed the risk and rewards of my actions and i think i just have to leak so you don't try anything. and before you say you wouldn't do anything so disgusting, you can believe its fun to have neighborhoods and just lean into that emotion as scum. people doing wildly unethical things as scum is fun to watch but im not just going to assume scum aren't going to use AtE. i think the odds of you being town are not nearly high enough for me to just let you do what you do out of faith. and im a bad sorter, but maybe someone else is better.

and you can pocket with eyes watching, hell imagine 3 people are suspicious of you pocketing in that hood but you manage to pocket 2. that's a good trade for scum, getting people to claim you are locktown is legitimately how you win mountainous setups.

[OkaPoka]

and i think just the normalization of leaking is a good thing to have just to remove one extra bullet scum have which is pocketing. its going to happen when comms are shut off but delaying that inevitable mega scum boon is a good thing in my eyes.

if nsg pm'd me claiming you are town, id probably back off. im pretty confident on me knowing who you are, and id let you do you if you are 100% town because i think you are better than me at this game. but you are like maybe 50% town.

[OkaPoka]

like idk why would claim you wouldn't pocket even if things might leak

scum pocket in main game thread like every day, its just easier in the hood as less people are watching, and escaping immediate criticism and letting things settle in is still an advantage for scum.

[OkaPoka]

and here's a big thing, when people eventually re iso us, its important to see reads trajectory in that iso and forcing others to leak it or posting it out of time is a great way to muddy the waters of late game work.

[OkaPoka]

in fact as i type i think i am mandated to leak everything ASAP it'd be silly not to do so

[OkaPoka]

You can pocket people anywhere, but having just more eyes on it immediately can let people call it out if they see something. Less people is just less transparency.

That is AtE yuri, claiming what I'm doing is turning you into a non functioning player and making you miserable. That is literally, AtE. You aren't arguing that xyz should/shouldn't be done because reads etc. you are trying to make me feel bad into letting you do things. That's AtE. Your logic is, I should let you post in neighborhood because otherwise you will be angry and mad and miserable and presumably, I'd feel bad enough to not want to fight that. You can be town arguing that, or scum arguing that, but its AtE nonetheless and if you were scum you'd probably feel slightly unethical in doing so but I'm not going to assume scum aren't going to lean into existing emotions.

idk who you are trying to pocket. maybe STD if he's town? he's showed similar emotions to you, maybe STD is trying to pocket you both in the shared desire to post in hood. Maybe you reaching out DGB and trying to find common ground in the hood could be construed as pockety or DGB chillin in hood waiting for you rather than posting here could be pocket-y. Perhaps that entire guilty-you interaction is meant to be theater directed at me, where you posited guilty+me as a team to try and make me side with guilty who i had a scumread at the time, and then guilty having an alley oop to dunk on your case because lets be honest, you did not do your research on that case at all makes me feel better about guilty.

[OkaPoka]

i mean you are bringing up the issue of why i shouldn't leak and im telling you why i will leak. ive stopped trying to convince you to not use the hood. this right here is also performative to the rest of the list to convince them why they shouldnt use the hood.

[OkaPoka]

like im talking to you sure, but im posting it all here to hopefully just convince people not to use the hood. it might be all directed towards you but im hoping the message reaches everything else.

if i present it as this is the plan, people are going to be bored. but if i can just show through you why this is no good, maybe its enough

[OkaPoka]

its possible, but the alternatives to you case wise is going after lurkers/lhf or BoPing someone else on a read and those are too boring with this much deadline left

[OkaPoka]

bingle, would you be voting a50 right now if cupcake got deleted?

[OkaPoka]

that's an e1

[OkaPoka]

at the very least if someone is going to hammer cupcake id prefer to see big hurt tags and then we can try leashing some unhooded votes just so we work one step closer or potentially reach the point where a 6th neighborhood cant happen no matter what

[OkaPoka]

i would like to be reassured by lavarmanos that they are not angling to yoink 6th neighborhood

[OkaPoka]

oh bingle, oh great divination rod. how should i interpret the monkey's call?

[OkaPoka]

lol

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: dgb

[OkaPoka]

UNVOTE:

[OkaPoka]

idk why but i thought dgb was dismantling cb wagon

[OkaPoka]

FakeGod - town i think
Bingle - town i think
T3 - could be scum
OkaPoka - i swear
Save The Dragons - null-scum
Titus - probably antialigned with yuri
GuiltyLion - possibly town? ? ? at least not flipping soon
Dusa - town i think
DrippingGoofball - null/town
Yuri Gagarin - i hope
Almost50 - ask bingle
UNOwen - asdfjkl i have no read not even a null
LavarManos - null-scum

[OkaPoka]

i feel like it doesnt really matter

[OkaPoka]

Dann, why do my posts come from the perspective of someone filling space and not a method to engage?

And I'm having difficulty following your current townreads because of how easily you flipped on one of your strongest.

Your position on me feels convenient for you, since there's been little challenge to your takes in the game thus far that I've seen.

~~~

Oka, walk me through your lim pool because it seems to change 1 or 2 people each time you bring it up, and you don't seem to care where the lim on the pool lands as long as it's the majority of the plist backing it.

i feel like the last part might be more pertinent because now we know 2 of the people in the collective pool were scum, and cupcake seemed to want to undermine collectivism so perhaps its something

[OkaPoka]

other two main unflipped collective pool would be yuri and std

[OkaPoka]

i did have dann and guilty as sr's at the time which may or may not be pertinent

[OkaPoka]

bell/hypothermia/bingle/guilty = perhaps townie?
dann/solo/yuri/cupcake = perhaps scummy?

I wanna hear more about guilty and cupcake because for me they’re kinda UtR

[OkaPoka]

what does utr mean to you?

this never got answered could mean something could not

[OkaPoka]

back to despair i have nobody to copy reads off of

honestly same
my reads feel very slow-to-develop this game so hopefully someone can just tell me what to do
Like, I'd probably say my townreads so far are something like Qoobee/Yuri/Dusa/Oka?/Bell?/Dann? but like, the ones with question marks don't really feel great at all rn
and my only solid SR is Fenrir, FG is being weird but idk if it's scummy, I'm starting to think it is though based on how bad his perception of the facts is rn
I also just kinda feel like crap in general irl

Qoobee/Yuri/Dusa/Oka?/Bell?/Dann?

t3/yuri/probably town/i swear im town/flipped town/flipped town

[OkaPoka]

add solo to TRs with a question mark actually

and this is who, a50? and i think bingle tr's them and im willing to trust?

[OkaPoka]

ahh i thought gamma said they were universal townreads

VOTE: lavarmanos

anyways im ok with this im just going to keep selecting stuff to pull out

[OkaPoka]

okay I didn't mind Oka's vote but it feels like every single vote after that on Yuri has just been sheeping that reason which I don't really think is good enough

but that's probably because I'm also on the side of holy hell stop the mech talk for a bit

but in 5 additional votes on Yuri I haven't seen one new reason that I recall

Valid take

[OkaPoka]

Votecount 1.27

Target	Wagon
Yuri Gagarin (5)	Bell (502), OkaPoka (758), GuiltyLion (773), UNOwen (811), Titus (877)
Save The Dragons (4)	Bingle (261), Qoobee (336), Gamma Emerald (794), Dusa (906)
GuiltyLion (3)	Yuri Gagarin (805), Dannflor (870), Save The Dragons (880)
Dannflor (1)	Solo (607)
LavarManos (1)	DrippingGoofball (783)
Not Voting (3)	Cupcake Butterfly, LavarManos, FakeGod (764)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-06-25 19:26:59).

Votecount 1.31

Target	Wagon
Yuri Gagarin (5)	Bell (502), OkaPoka (758), GuiltyLion (773), UNOwen (811), Titus (877)
Cupcake Butterfly (5)	Bingle (976), FakeGod (981), DrippingGoofball (983), Dannflor (996), Almost50 (1013)
Save The Dragons (3)	Qoobee (336), Gamma Emerald (794), Dusa (1008)
GuiltyLion (2)	Yuri Gagarin (805), Save The Dragons (880)
Not Voting (2)	Cupcake Butterfly, LavarManos

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-06-25 19:26:59).

Votecount 1.32

Target	Wagon
Yuri Gagarin (6)	Bell (502), OkaPoka (758), GuiltyLion (773), UNOwen (811), Titus (877), Dusa (1075)
Cupcake Butterfly (5)	Bingle (976), FakeGod (981), DrippingGoofball (983), Dannflor (996), Almost50 (1013)
GuiltyLion (2)	Yuri Gagarin (805), Save The Dragons (880)
Save The Dragons (1)	Gamma Emerald (794)
Not Voting (3)	Cupcake Butterfly, LavarManos, T3 (1070)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-06-25 19:26:59).

Votecount 1.33

Target	Wagon
Cupcake Butterfly (4)	Bingle (976), FakeGod (981), Almost50 (1013), Gamma Emerald (1123)
Yuri Gagarin (4)	Bell (502), OkaPoka (758), UNOwen (811), Titus (877)
Gamma Emerald (4)	Dusa (1132), Dannflor (1152), DrippingGoofball (1154), GuiltyLion (1165)
GuiltyLion (2)	Yuri Gagarin (805), Save The Dragons (880)
Not Voting (3)	Cupcake Butterfly, LavarManos, T3 (1070)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-06-25 19:26:59).

A hammer has been achieved!

Votecount 1.Final

Target	Wagon
Gamma Emerald (9)	Dusa (1132), Dannflor (1152), DrippingGoofball (1154), GuiltyLion (1165), Save The Dragons (1188), OkaPoka (1230), T3 (1239), Yuri Gagarin (1324), FakeGod (1452)
Cupcake Butterfly (3)	Bingle (976), Almost50 (1013), Gamma Emerald (1123)
Yuri Gagarin (2)	UNOwen (811), Titus (877)
Not Voting (3)	Cupcake Butterfly, LavarManos, Bell (1241)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-06-25 19:26:59).

[OkaPoka]

dont think a lavar flip will change anyone's opinions on the game tbh

[OkaPoka]

regardless of what lavar flips, as of now with 3 scum alive, i dont think anyone is going to have a sudden epiphany claiming oh because lavar flipped town or scum, x must be town or scum is what i mean.

its just, we need to see because it'd be hard to do things otherwise because lavar will always just be there and everyone will agree that lavar is not townie and it feels a bit like theater to do something else and come back to what is inevitable.

[OkaPoka]

seeing a red cb didn't change my opinions on the game much fwiw

[OkaPoka]

Temptation

[OkaPoka]

Yeah i understand what yall mean

[OkaPoka]

More context good for when we need it but seeing the flip did not make me go oooooh this means this then

[OkaPoka]

LavarManos more like LavóManos

[OkaPoka]

uh oh dgb you dont think im town?!

[OkaPoka]

i wonder if this is going to be baton pass v2 where scum "gave up", pretty much all bussed each other, basically are going to lose, but then we are going to lose to some wildly unethical plays. too bad bell was town because he was the prime slot to violate his own tells.

[OkaPoka]

does t3 know about your vca? i think he's presuming that you are going analyze whether someone voted scum or not

[OkaPoka]

big if true

[OkaPoka]

y u voting titus my guy

[OkaPoka]

im lost

[OkaPoka]

and she is scum because

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: yuri

ill go back to lavarmanos i am indifferent between the toe-may-toes and the toh-mah-toes

[OkaPoka]

anybody with experience with bell would kill bell because when he's town he might as well be an IC

[OkaPoka]

is this bussing?

[OkaPoka]

t3 votes on titus feel so... awkward and forced?

[OkaPoka]

t3 is a fine choice

[OkaPoka]

ur uh titus push is uh you trying to emulate ur scum game?

[OkaPoka]

LavarManos is an alt 100% he knows about creature. CREATURE!

[OkaPoka]

i agree lets figure out how to build optimal neighborhoods tho

[OkaPoka]

i feel like from here on out id like fakegod, dusa, bingle, and if God permits, myself on every wagon

but at the very least, fakegod, dusa, bingle need to be on every wagon

[OkaPoka]

and since im basically banking a50 town on bingle read i think leaving a50 off wagon is a good thing just in case shenanigans

since t3 and lavar are already dead p much, they should be off wagon as well

id like to leave yuri off wagon as well but thats a pet read

[OkaPoka]

It shouldn't matter but it could and that alone should warrant some thought

Okay i have an argument for flipping yuri today. We have 3 flips basically, we can do t3 and lavar after and i dont see any striking revelation from seeing those two flips.

I feel like yuri is the most likely to disobey any attempts at leashing, additionally I feel like my alignment is probably heavily conditioned on yuris as in if he reds yall feel comfortable putting me in neighborhood and if green, probably not.

Plus i think there are decent reasons to flip yuri regardless.

[OkaPoka]

Of course we could not care and continue speeding through the game because i mean its working and i dont feel like throwing a procedural hissyfit at this point because there is now town advantage

[OkaPoka]

At this point id assume scum are just playing for themself. Don't overthink it too much

[OkaPoka]

At this point id assume scum are just playing for themself. Don't overthink it too much

this makes sense how

Nobody really was trying to stop d1 and d2 wagons. Everyone was kinda ok w it. Which means scum probs just going w the flow and letting things happen

[OkaPoka]

Titus r u bearding me

[OkaPoka]

Titus r u bearding me

Rephrasing?

art thou mastereth thy pocketh

[OkaPoka]

quick question do we care leashing neighborhoods? please answer in your next post

@everyone

[OkaPoka]

should we leash neighborhoods?

Yes (1) - OkaPoka
No (1) - Titus
Not Voting (11) - FakeGod, Bingle, T3, Save The Dragons, GuiltyLion, Dusa, DrippingGoofball, Yuri Gagarin, Almost50, UNOwen, LavarManos

[OkaPoka]

scumplan im guessing is a generic, everyone just be townie and hopefully one of us makes it to the end?

[OkaPoka]

baton pass
large normal v2
epilogue!
starry night

[OkaPoka]

having played the whole games out pretty much in both, that was basically scum's gameplan. no real gameplan.

baton pass did have the caveat of some wild stuff happening in the middle, but there was no "gameplan" other than bus when you need to and hope that one of makes it through

epilogue! did seemingly have the wincon on beeboy isis pair but like scum made no real effort other than lets just bus out each other since we are all lhf and hopefully one of us makes it to last pair

[OkaPoka]

uhhhhh no i played in baton pass. RC's brute force played a big part in scum not having a plan, yes. but scum never had a coherent strategy other than someone make it to endgame

[OkaPoka]

in the sense that when we got to the lims, no scum opposed the double lim that ended up happening on both scum d1

[OkaPoka]

wisdom died d1 because he was being a pain in the ass to work with and clearly just there to annoy RC

gameplay died because well gameplay lurked out and made bad readslist

s_s was like whatever yeah ill go with the flow they can die

shoshin in fact actually pushed those two and iirc, was actually the person to suggest killing them both which is pretty funny but she did it because she hates playing scum and just wanted it to be over lol

[OkaPoka]

town lost that game because we kinda over though it and were like oh scum had to stop the double scum lim so lim'd all the loud people who were staunchly against the double scum lim and then we ended up like oh wait this is not good when in reality scum remaining was in the person who was going with the flow and the person who double bus'd and made an ethically questionable thing that was like a trust tell but not really because she was actually scum but yeah that was that

the shoshin/volpe slot and ss slot pretty much went with the status quo which is agreeing with RC tbf but if the plan of scum is to just agree with town and hope you survive thats not a scumplan

[OkaPoka]

I know you played in baton pass, didn't you play in all of the games you just listed?

I just disagree with your perspective, there was clearly planning of how to approach the game that (I might add) worked

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=81032&start=75

^see this after volpe repped in

like scum were messy on endgame in part because of RC making them into a mess, but they had a plan for how they were going to try and win after that point and were even trying to come up with one during the first pass

i think you need to read the context of the game. pretty much none of this came to fruition and an attempt was made but the SS lim happened because RC was like yeah lets do it. volpe got some towncred for it but a majority of volpe's towncred was heavily weighted on shoshin's "trust tell" and volpe played well in not ruining that but ultimately when we hit like final 5/6? literally everyone was mutually townreading everyone.

[OkaPoka]

fine i agree scum could be planning about how to win but i think its clear that they aren't actually enacting any grand deepwolf ideas at the moment because literally everyone has rolled over on both gamma and cupcake lims. like nobody was trying to stop it. then nobody is trying to take serious cred for those lims either so its not like scum could be bussing. what does that leave us? scum are just playing for themselves

[OkaPoka]

volpe played adaptable, thats just volpe playing for himself you know? that's what i mean by playing for yourself. you bend around what town is trying to do and just follow town around rather than bending town

[OkaPoka]

im not saying scum gave up, im saying scum is playing for themselves. not having a gameplan is not playing poorly. its just a style of playing

[OkaPoka]

and you can argue volpe had all these plans in scum pt but i think volpe would agree that ultimately volpe didn't really enact his grand devious schemes to win and instead well, just tried to be townie and hope to win at endgame

[OkaPoka]

yuri, pretty much everyone in this game can be filed under someone who has idly bussed or idly watched

like who pushed gamma the most? dusa maybe? dusa initiated it but then disappeared basically. guilty maybe? guilty was like this is obv scum and then got busy. there has been no resistance to like anything this game. even the hardest opposers can be categorized as either, i townread them but i dont care if they die or i kinda scumread them but id rather do x but id still do them. like yuri, who would be the active scum here that seem to be enacting some sort of plan?

pedit: i did not ask to be limmed wtf?

[OkaPoka]

i was the only person who did not ask to be limmed. i got limmed because nancy decided to have a change of heart in the baton phase and just nuke me

[OkaPoka]

i legit was fighting RC to not be lim'd like it was a huge point of contention the start of that disastrous phase

[OkaPoka]

and this feels like semantics, you know what i mean. you can categorize volpe as having a plan, id categorize him as not but we both are saying the same thing and categorizing it differently why are you arguing with me over baton pass?

just tell me who could be the evil scum that are planning some grand strategy rn? any combination of scum, i don't see with a plan outside of lets just get to endgame.

[OkaPoka]

who in here do you see crafting a real plan outside of lets go to endgame with whats happened so far?

FakeGod
Bingle
T3
OkaPoka
Save The Dragons
Titus
GuiltyLion
Dusa
DrippingGoofball
Yuri Gagarin
Almost50
UNOwen
LavarManos

[OkaPoka]

yeah. although there are instances like RC in gameshow where its clear that scum had a specific order that they wanted to flip through and built their gameplan entirely around specific people rather than watching and reacting

[OkaPoka]

scum arguably had a plan in large normal team mafia but it collapsed and became play for yourself since we couldnt execute

[OkaPoka]

although i guess planning vs playing as it goes is less of a binary thing and more of a spectrum

[OkaPoka]

but i think my point still stands where i dont really see a scum gameplan because nobody has gotten serious towncred for specifically pushing any of the lims so far (outside of dusa i guess??) and i didn't really see anyone actively trying to stop any of the lims

[OkaPoka]

i suppose there is one theoretical way scum could be planning which is through neighborhoods hehe

[OkaPoka]

no shot bell was killed to stop a t3 lim

bell was killed because he might as well have been an innocent child

[OkaPoka]

maybe its a bridge worth exploring later, but bell is probably the lowest info venge possible because bell is basically an innocent child when he's town

[OkaPoka]

lol im ok with any of the top 3 wagons tbh its so weird so many decisions you ever get offered like 3 places to eat and ur like idc and there like cmon you have to care and your like no i really dont care

[OkaPoka]

should we leash neighborhoods?

Yes (2) - OkaPoka, Dusa
No (2) - Titus, Yuri
Not Voting (9) - FakeGod, Bingle, T3, Save The Dragons, GuiltyLion, DrippingGoofball, Almost50, UNOwen, LavarManos

[OkaPoka]

more votes pls also guilty idk if thats a yes or a no tbh im leaning yes but it could be a no

[OkaPoka]

should we leash neighborhoods?

Yes (3) - OkaPoka, Dusa, GuiltyLion
No (2) - Titus, Yuri
Not Voting (8) - FakeGod, Bingle, T3, Save The Dragons, DrippingGoofball, Almost50, UNOwen, LavarManos

[OkaPoka]

yeah i didnt tbh because philosophy is confusing and just assumed by the title of the article it was going to be a no

[OkaPoka]

but is it a yes?

[OkaPoka]

Let's do it to prove the haters wrong.

[OkaPoka]

bingle stop dodging the pressing mechanical questions that even obama wants to know about

[OkaPoka]

my WIM is very low as it stands because thinking about limming lavar or t3 is very boring

[OkaPoka]

ok only one person voices opinion against leashing neighborhoods lets do this

sorting into 3 categories to find the 'utrs'

Bingle, Dusa, FakeGod, OkaPoka :^) <-People I want in neighborhood

A50, GuiltyLion, DGB, Titus, UNOwen <-People I'm indifferent to

T3, Lavar, STD, Yuri <-People I oppose in neighborhood

[OkaPoka]

lets close voting in 24 hours and then start forming then neighborhoods then

[OkaPoka]

pls vote

[OkaPoka]

lots of value on neighborhood formation is lost if its just me and guilty giving input

[OkaPoka]

what?

[OkaPoka]

r u dumb or do you really have that low of an opinion on humanity

[OkaPoka]

like we are just getting 7 people to agree to vote lim one person and 6 people to agree not too and the hardest part, finding the person to lim is not hard because nobody really is going to stake the game on lavar or t3 town. like this is easy? like very very easy?

[OkaPoka]

ok std work with me im going to shock your worldview

[OkaPoka]

bro if the utrs have a deepwolf they r going to be in the hoods anyways. all leashing the hoods does is make sure the people we really dont want in hoods, not be in hoods

[OkaPoka]

so it sounds like you are the problem and not humanity

[OkaPoka]

???

[OkaPoka]

unless u can present to me an actual argument on why leashing hoods is bad instead of leashing hoods is hard and then do this thing where you are the person making leashing hoods hard im going to be very sad

[OkaPoka]

two people being uncooperative is a pain in the ass. one person being uncooperative has an easy solution

[OkaPoka]

A problem is that the end hood will have everyone's scumreads in it and as a result may have a lot of scum.

what?

[OkaPoka]

std, if other people think you should be in hood, my sole opposition to you being in a hood is of little significance

[OkaPoka]

sounds like we can fix the issue if you help me get more people to contribute their opinions to mitigate what my opinions

[OkaPoka]

everyone says its impossible but it is, in fact, quite easy. just cooperate and if you are willing to policy lim those who don't (and for the sake of not looking so mean, policy lim those who refuse to give reason why a leashed neighborhood is bad) then it is in fact, quite an easy proposition