Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[petapan]

Cakez towncase yourself for me

Doesn't need to be a big one but like why am I just wrong on you

Moreover, why can't I just..be wrong on you? Why is it scum motivated

basically - the way you entered this game and have been playing seems like you're trying to widen the elim pool and put people who generally weren't being considered (like Taly, Skitter and myself) into play while diverting attention away from people like Peta and Dunn who were sussed after Pooky and Ceph flipped town

"widening the poe" is also just quite literally never a correct tell although some people act like it is

[petapan]

again, like, rationally

the only reason he does that as scum is if the team is HARD again the wall and are generally all within the POE, and the only path to victory is a desperation play

i don't think any rational person believes that is what the game is like

instead coming in here and voicing unpopular opinions is likely to get you shouted down

but cakez here is shortcutting all that logic to use a cookie cutter argument

[petapan]

also it's fucking BS to say I'm accusing everyone when Peta is staging this to look like I accused all of these people at the same time when in reality this is a game-wide pregression.

I'm at null on Toog
ended up with town for Ceph
still TR Dwlee
nulltown Ulyana
nulltown Gamma

wow great you're not shading the people who aren't viable wagons anymore

cool

great

wonderful

[petapan]

@Cakez

You were pretty much about 'Toog being scum' early on and now you're at them being null and even some posts that read like you think they're town? Why? What changed

With Toog - they are just trying so little that it almost feels too scummy to be scum, you know? A

nd I have this instinct that scum is in the higher-activity players and they want to use Toog as a freelim when we can gain a lot more information by flipping someone who's active and controversial.

Where does a Toog flip leave us regardless of alignment? Nowhere really.
And my other stronger scumreads all have Toog as someone they'd like to elim and it just feels wrong - someone else agreed with me on this I forget who.

Yet your main scumread in Dunn who isn't active at all. Who fits there?

lmao can't even maintain a consistent thought line

[petapan]

it's such a weirdass defense when there has been like absurd resistance to even the idea we should vote toog at some point in the undefined future

[petapan]

True but look at Dunn's ISO vs Toog's ISO. There's a lot more to work with in regards to Dunn.

what the fuck does that even mean

[petapan]

shrug i clicked open the thread saw that and jumped on it because anyone operating from an intellectually honest POV would recognize the dissonance in those ideas (scum are active/dunn is scum) but you're operating from an agenda and are using weaselly justifications

[petapan]

anyone who's not full of shit would recognize the dunn posts quoted there are a lot better

(also not out of line for him as town, but lolmeta)

[petapan]

Cakez you are so in the moment that it's almost bad. I think it's bad because there's no litigation to anything you say. You're just how you are and like that's fine if you're town but you're being scummy.

..Do you think you're not? I doubt that because everytime someone goes 'cakez you're being scummy' you go 'that's just how i am!!'

If you don't want people to focus on meta, why have that be your main defense?

I literally just said I think your reason for scumreading me makes sense

anyone who's not full of shit would recognize the dunn posts quoted there are a lot better

(also not out of line for him as town, but lolmeta)

you totally missed the point dude this is why I think you're not actually trying to sort me
you were like "how are dunn and toog different" and I pointed it out and then you're like "obviously Dunn looks better from those posts"
like that's not the point I was making? very obviously not?

your claim is that there's "a lot more to work with"

that doesn't equate to any reasonable justification for him being scum

you know this

[petapan]

That's not even my argument for Dunn being scum and you know that because I literally just requoted my argument

yes great i think your reasoning is weasel shit

[petapan]

i mean yeah people who aren't committing to a wagon should choose one at this point

i think dwlee's targets are likely 0/2 though

[petapan]

In terms of "I believe they have this read on me" from my own voters it'd be like Skitter > Infinity > Ydra> Saber.

Ydra dropped down because she just literally is ignoring the fact shit has happened since our fight

she...hasn't posted since then?

[petapan]

Basically don't think Skitter scum defends Cakez the way she has if Cakez is scum

i would not make that assumption


granted on a gut level she's still town but i have nothing deeper until we get some form of actual flips and voting

[petapan]

Why is Dwlee at the bottom end of this? Just cause they scumread you?

they could be in the above tier because i'm not sure scum!them plays like this, but it's just because they haven't really towntold

pedit: that's fair i guess but i think scum could reasonably play like dwlee has played, for me it's not really enough atp

UNVOTE:

i did think the point you had earlier about them trying to be more presentable as scum or whatever it was made sense

[petapan]

Basically don't think Skitter scum defends Cakez the way she has if Cakez is scum

i would not make that assumption


granted on a gut level she's still town but i have nothing deeper until we get some form of actual flips and voting

Yeah alright I'll discard it

Are you fine with voting Dunn off? Assume no based on your posts

i think it's likely a miss but i'm not standing in the doorway

not worth it and a big part of why this game is exhausting is the amount of shielding people are getting over tenuous crap

[petapan]

Dwlee is like a top townread

I'm enamored by how much they little they seemingly care about like thread progression and others reads and just focus on shouting into the void

Can't really see any partners with them lol

I want to call them town for the same reason but they have totally bamboozled me in the past playing just like this

in the recent past or

because i don't think this is comparable to like dogs vs cats or mini normal 2232

[petapan]

not worth it and a big part of why this game is exhausting is the amount of shielding people are getting over tenuous crap

Lol I don't disagree but live to fight another day or something. We've both been ranting about Cakez for about 2-3 IRL days and his wagon has barely budged.

i literally only turned on him yesterday although i'm sure it feels like 2-3 IRL days

most of the active people are sheer brick walls and i'm not clicking with them, i think some are predictably stubborn but i would wager it's not all natural, and then you have some people that are barely reachable

[petapan]

oh wtf

toogs in the game

Yeah and their posting is v scummy and if there's something that ruffles my feathers, blows smoke up my chimney, shakes my monkey tree it's that FUCKING people are calling them LHF bait and it's like no offense to toog but they're always LHF bait but there's a crumb of sincerity and willingness and here they're just like ughhh im bored let's kill some fucking people lol

it actively should not be hard to flush a turd like him but there's enormous resistance to even the idea he should be flipped

the only possible reasons for this are agendaed play (regardless of his alignment) or people just overthinking and being scared to miss on an objectively worthless player who adds no value to the game and is -EV by sheer existence

there's a few people here who might be prone to that overthinking but the way the game has positioned itself around him? feels fucking unnatural

[petapan]

like it ought to say something that it's significantly easier to get votes on dunn, someone who has actual thoughts on this game


do we really think dunn is being hung out to dry by his team here without an attempt to kill anyone else, because i fairly doubt that

[petapan]

VOTE: toogeloo

[petapan]

while leaving all of the controversial slots untouched

Name names

Unwnd, myself, Peta, Infinity (although I don't think there's a world where Peta dies today)

i'm only controversial because i'm living rent-free in your head

[petapan]

like it ought to say something that it's significantly easier to get votes on dunn, someone who has actual thoughts on this game


do we really think dunn is being hung out to dry by his team here without an attempt to kill anyone else, because i fairly doubt that

I don't really think this is true? there's like what? four votes on him?

enough to put him to lead wagon status the way things are and most people seemed to be like "yeah sure i'm okay with him dying"

certainly notably i feel like i'm the only person

defending

him in any meaningful way

fact check me if this isn't true

[petapan]

because literally no matter what Toog flips we are gonna be in the same gamestate tomorrow

not true if he dies we'll be down one person who wasn't playing the game and can make judgment on who was playing with knowledge of his alignment

[petapan]

you provide "information" or something

[petapan]

you provide "information" or something

read 3151

[petapan]

i feel like this game will be a key factor on how I play mafia going forward depending on how people flip

i


ugh

Spoiler:

this sounds towny but i don't want to admit that

[petapan]

you provide "information" or something

read 3151

you agreed with me that Dunn's ISO is "better" than Toog's so I'm not sure how you're stuck up on this

because i don't see how that translates into flipping him being a better choice at all

[petapan]

I've gotten the vibes too but I also feel like Cakez is being all dah controversial slots while making a drool puddle and saying vote Dunn

But maybe that's townie too

it's just tiltingly bad philosophy because i can think of plenty of examples where people big brained themselves into thinking they had to go for the "controversial" or "spicy" flip because they didn't want to take the easy one

[petapan]

maybe dunn isn't "controversial" but there's certainly more resistance to wagoning him than Toog as evidenced by the last ~5 pages

nah

[petapan]

Subject: Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

I think the arguments are flawed because like some have said we get extremely little info from yeeting NM and his elim is not super helpful either way he flips.

like it's consistent within his philosophy

it's just objectively bad play

[petapan]

Like if Toog flips red then Cakez is just out in nowhere land but I'd happily think it's townie

yeah probably, i mean i already said the post i quoted earlier is a towny one i just hate admitting it

[petapan]

not going to pretend i'm at cop guilty levels of confidence but i maintain flipping someone who is not playing the game is literally always a healthy one to make and you should at least recognize the biased thinking where you're always looking for some complicated answer and end up tunneling nacho

[petapan]

And yet silly little ydrasse stood victorious for (checks notes) voting someone once

Working hard or hardly working? You decide

if u mean the bulge vote that actually was legitimately pivotal because menalque had leveled himself into not being able to make it


the shit people let hydras get away with is absurd

[petapan]

not going to pretend i'm at cop guilty levels of confidence but i maintain flipping someone who is not playing the game is literally always a healthy one to make and you should at least recognize the biased thinking where you're always looking for some complicated answer and end up tunneling nacho

ok to be fair to myself I did end up reading Nacho correctly that game

oh wait no i didnt
oof

dude i memed you into thinking he was my partner because i was practically outed and hard defending him

[petapan]

Kinda makes me weary to townread him here because his ego must be taking off like a rocket but

Nah let's kill toog

i mean like that game was 50-ish posts of me deliberately trying to be as chaotic as possible because i realized i was in a slot that was near consensus scum and the only thing i could to was try to confuse associations after i flipped

not really comparable!

i just would not be playing the way i am as scum but people are scared

[petapan]

cakez to be clear i'm not doing this to gloat, if you're town i want you to recognize the biases in your thinking

[petapan]

i did homework and reread and now think there's a decent chance dunn is scum


(yes like i did with cakez only to change my mind a day later, i don't care, shut up)

[petapan]

VOTE: dunnstral

[petapan]

this is actually me playing 5D chess to manipulate the wagonomics for both of them to be in the lead

[petapan]

Toogeloo [5]: Gypyx, Ydrasse, unwnd, SirCakez, Dunnstral
Dunnstral [4]: Taly, Dwlee99, Infinity 324, petapan
unwnd [2]: Saber, skitter30
Saber [1]: Gamma Emerald


Not Voting [2]: ulyana, Toogeloo

unofficial VC

[petapan]

we can get more votes on dunn and i changed my mind and think there's a strong chance he's scum here

[petapan]

oh i missed he's E-1

VOTE: toogeloo

spiritually though dunn is the stronger read atm but good names to send

[petapan]

something something about that saber vote being angling to be on the right side of history if it's T/S

[petapan]

lol i vaguely had the notion i'd be here, not for actual scumminess but accumulated Weight of Sin or whatever the fuck

[petapan]

who voted for me

[petapan]

sorry ulya i should've stayed on saber, forgot about seniority rules

i don't know why i was the suspect here

your trajectory on toog was bad and i didn't like your iso on review, the position was mostly consensus except for gamma who loudly objected

[petapan]

saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus


this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with her

[petapan]

i should add: as said in the PT, i think gamma emerald, the galron/unwnd slot, and sircakez are lock fucking town

in the event i flip here you never kill those people

[petapan]

cakez gamma emerald and unwnd burst into that PT with the energy town gets following a red flip

saber fucking faceplanted and should absolutely not be getting townread anymore, would easily be my top choice for a punt from blue room

[petapan]

sorry ulya i should've stayed on saber, forgot about seniority rules

i don't know why i was the suspect here

your trajectory on toog was bad and i didn't like your iso on review, the position was mostly consensus except for gamma who loudly objected

my trajectory on toog was pretty consistent right?

i'm not sure why that should matter?

[petapan]

i think skitter's treatment of dunn looks good for her but i'm sort of riding on a baseline assumption of her scumplay without having done heavy research - was fairly aggressive toward him and in general doesn't seem to bus when not necessary

[petapan]

we

why do you think toogeloo is currently alive if town?

i don’t really think he is and i said that dunn/toog was s/s theatre s:

thumbs up

would like everyone's opinion on this!!!

i think i had wavered toward him being petulant town but i'm very hard up for scumreads elsewhere and he probably gets POEd at some point

[petapan]

i'm not sure why that should matter?

well what's your problem with it

wow i just reread my own post

*your trajectory on

DUNN

was bad is what i meant to say

[petapan]

peta put in... a whole lot of work in our pt that we talked about

fwiw i don't even think this is town-AI for me and Gamma Emerald would tell you as much but i think in terms of process i was much less clean/presentable because i wasn't trying to work the game into some sort of beneficial narrative

[petapan]

but... why wouldn't scum!dunn just shoot town!toogeloo? instead of 50/50? and after toogeloo made it clear was going to spin barrel if town why wouldn't scum!dunn spin the barrel instead of scum claiming?

well i dunno, maybe the bullet was later down the barrel and toog spinning made things go unpredicatble (actually that's a really likely theory)

or he wanted toog to go first after spinning the barrel, cuz it has better mathematical odds if i recall my calculations correctly

it doesn't, optimal play from a fresh spin is 50/50 although there's a chance someone could misplay and hand the other player an advantage, which is the only reason i can think for him spinning immediately after toog

personally i think in that scenario if i have a teammate with a gun and a townie in the other spot i have them openwolf and just shoot the opponent with the first chambered shot because it still means town wastes a phase eliminating them

[petapan]

this feels so much like a pocketing post, although i can't remember the last time i've seen pocketing so idk lol

why would he be trying to pocket someone on the cusp of elimination

[petapan]

VOTE: dunn pooky feels towny to me i don't like that vote

hi cakez

i agree with dunn's approach. i think any other approach involves some form of mod WIFOM that's probably not great to get into

Dunn is your pooky vote serious? if so why

VOTE: galron cause i don't like either of the other wagons, tbf i'm terrible at reading dunn but the fact that he's getting wagoned d1 is probably +town

like maybe the scumteam is dunn/galron/ydrasse/ceph but probably not right

idk who i should be looking at that i'm not

hmm

VOTE: gypyx

i feel like gamma being town makes prism slot a lot more likely to be scum

this or ydrasse are my favorite votes atm

other thoughts:

i think cakez is decently towny

i've liked dunn's posting so far but pooky scumread him and pooky also had a really good tmi-based scumread on dunn in silent star 3

To relitigate:

Somebody said that Gamma was trying to get into the chair
I said that they already had a chance to get into the chair if they wanted to
Somebody said that they wouldn't self vote into the chair because they wanted to look town

Even if point 3 is correct, that doesn't make anything tmi (or even wrong... the first point never said anything about looking town, the third point expanded on assumptions that were unsaid

this is fair

@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)

i agree with unwnd's read on dunn

I don't know your own experience with Dunn but I do know we were in RPG together where I defended you (correctly) against a Ydra/Dunn team where I finally had the gumption to vote Dunn out. Are you seeing lack of parallel from that?

I mean yeah, I feel like the pattern you pointed out is generally true for dunn

hm ok
who do you have as scum besides unwnd right now? I just re-ISOed you and you definitely have done more than I remembered but I have like
zero grasp on where you actually want this game to go
you feel very go-with-the-flowy

i don't have strong scumreads yeah

{taly, gamma}
{ydrasse, ulyana}
{peta, skitt, cakez}
{toog, dunn}
{saber, gypyx, dwlee, unwnd}

i have too many townreads and most of this day phase i've been trying to sort out who of the bottom tier is the worst

and whenever i vote someone they start townposting or there's a reason to unvote so ahh

like unwnd just started townposting

ahh

fwiw here's infinity's ISO on dunn. it feels bad.

the early vote on him in RVS-ish territory feels like it could be distancing, the thing scum do in early game where they are overly self conscious and call out unimportant stuff. the vote transitioning into asking him about it feels like looking for an excuse to get away from it. from there, she moves more toward soft defending him, saying him getting wagoned makes him more likely to be town, saying she liked his posting but hedging with a reference to pooky, and then piggybacking off unwnd's initial dunn read to have him as town, he only really drops in the reads later in the day but no visible reason for doing so and he's kept out of the bottom tier of reads


this is all stuff i quoted in the PT although i didn't fully flesh it out because i didn't need to

[petapan]

i entertained various tinfoils in the topic but it didn't feel right to go deepwolf hunting off the flip versus voting the person who looks face value bad


i think taly's stance on Dunn was a little inconsistent in places and i realized i was giving him credit for simply being able to write decent looking posts, assumed it was a style he'd have a hard time replicating as scum which is not the case. i wanted to review more comprehensively but didn't have the time. i think some of the stuff he's done has, like, ~real feeling~ attached to it rather than tactical scumplay but wouldn't necessarily clear him. looks better if infinity is scum though

ulyana is very hard to figure out and had barely any interactions with dunn but the absence of evidence isn't necessarily an indictment. i think in the end i leaned toward the aggression in questioning people being town-AI although it feels like it's been in the wrong direction so far mostly, and also by activity she blows away any of her scumgames. couldn't go there in good conscience.

[petapan]

@peta dunn has moved around a bit in my reads cause i'm indecisive and haven't been good at reading him in the past, but he never got above a light townread, which for me meant still in the PoE. i was looking for reasons to townread/scumread him above others in my poe, but those were mostly tiebreakers.

i don't know why you're explaining yourself to me here

[petapan]

i leaned toward the aggression in questioning people being town-AI although it feels like it's been in the wrong direction so far mostly

if you think is in wrong direction you can say 'slow down for a minute, what you're doing right now does not make sense to me and here is why' because like, there are obviously a lot of things i might not be thinking of and when people are just like, 'she's doing wrong things' and do not explain to me why it's wrong it feels like just trying to make people feel a way about me instead of help me to get on track because... i can be useful! and since you're somewhat unfamiliar with me (having only played marathon games together unless i am misremembering) and think i am very far off so far in this game maybe you do not find it likely that i could be useful, but!! i have been before

this was all in hindsight reading for me, the bit in 2882 where you were suspicious of what unwnd/gamma/toog were doing, and as of right now i'm convinced the first two are town. toog tbd i guess

that's not damning in and of itself because townies are often wrong and i've been pushing people i think are likely town now, that's part of the game

it's just something i noted because i don't think you've had any stance that i'd call clearing

but we will see how things go as the game progresses

[petapan]

so yeah i'm not trying to imply you're useless or whatever

[petapan]

Heya i vastly prefer peta over infinity

Kinda busy irl today but i'll try to be around (a lot) later tonight

lol ok

[petapan]

how many scum do you think are in the pink room, skitter

[petapan]

so yeah i'm not trying to imply you're useless or whatever

yeah if in hindsight it isn't really applicable, though if you could explain why it wouldn't be suspicious for all of unwnd/gamma/toog's stances to not really make sense there, it'd still help me with view of game potentially

my concern is really just based on who you were looking at at that point in time. i think it was somewhat bothersome that you had basically laid out the statement "these people are acting weird" and made the jump to "doesn't feel like town behavior" without necessarily getting into why it made them scum. i think the hullabaloo around the selfvoting was overblown

but that's a minor quibble - i don't think the reasoning there is scum-indicative. scum can have good reasoning, anyway. it's just something i'd be suspicious of down the line if toog flips town and people are having a hard time finding suspects because at that point it would look like what you are doing is emphasizing pressure on town players. but i have no immediate desire whatsoever to flip you

[petapan]

can someone lay out why peta is scum ?

i had gut pings but they felt unfair soooo

I think he's kinda been defensive all game maybe? I also just, do not vibe with what he was doing in the blue room, that just reeks of keeping options open

you continue to grotesquely misunderstand my process despite me explaining it

[petapan]

i think just clearing people sight unseen off little more than gut and good feelings is bad play and leads to scum being allowed to coast to endgame a lot of the time, with pieces of evidence that come in off a red flip it's worth going back and re-evaluating, that is what i did

none of it even comprehensively added up to a scumcase on people and i never actively pushed any of those votes but i think trying to cover my bases and get a fair look at people is not "keeping my options open", which would be wholly unnecessary as scum anyway when i can just push one case at a time on whoever is easiest and not commit to a stance on the harder elims at that point in time

[petapan]

i also left that shit in the topic because to keep it real i was aware the whole time there was a chance i would be up here, none of the other players in the blue room were likely to be a popular vote. as i said the trio of cakez/gamma emerald/galronslot would be absolutely tragic, no one besides infinity seems to suspect gypyx, people seem generally okay with ydrasse, no one besides unwnd really suspected saber

although i still think flipping me would be actively dumb, it wouldn't surprise me because of how i've played so far, and my goal is to leave posts behind so people have stuff to work off/consider if i do end up dying. i'm playing with an eye toward the future even if that future does not involve me

[petapan]

Dunnstral had a reaction to infinity at one point that I find remarkably anti-partnery! At one point Infinity mentioned something about TMI from Dunnstral, and Dunnstral's response was "what, where?", in essence. I don't think Dunnstral would freak out to that degree if it was a bus. And I think Infinity was RIGHT to call TMI on Dunnstral since he was one of the more accurate people about the first event iirc!

2102 would be utterly fucking trivial to fake as distancing, you've got to be shitting me

[petapan]

only after doing so had the thought "hey, the people on this wagon look mighty sketchy".

gamma, flat out i wasn't going to be dissuaded on a vote because i thought the first person making it was scummy. i think that's a bad way to evaluate and often gets fooled by distancing

and i didn't really want to tip my hand on my feelings about saber while i was in the topic/making the vote because i was not voting saber for elimination and wanted to see what she'd post without strong pressure + if scum i don't really want that info conveyed to the other topic

[petapan]

i think it was somewhat bothersome that you had basically laid out the statement "these people are acting weird" and made the jump to "doesn't feel like town behavior" without necessarily getting into why it made them scum

i guess to me i ran through all of the town explanations i could think of for unwnd/toogeloo rushing a duel with both of them in it at that moment and for gamma to want the player others thought was the most likely mafia to choose who they dueled instead of trying to get most likely mafia into the duel, but like, none of them really worked,

eh like i think the town behavior from both unwnd and is perfectly explicable, unwnd was tilted and toog didn't care, not hard for that to come from town. (i should again emphasize, that unwnd slot is incredibly hard town at this point, never touch it)

i did think the panicky unvote from you was +town

i don't think it's a super pertinent line of discussion right now

[petapan]

...that's actually valid wrt the Saber thoughts. I basically stopped posting in the blue room after I realized what I had to do didn't involve any discussion there and I felt like interacting there would be a detractor to my aims.
The problem for me is that's also a great way to get someone miseliminated and then turn on the other wagon members if you're scum.

i think if i'm scum i don't start that pivot until after i get the mis-elim secured, might even stay off infinity anyway and try to be mindful of positioning myself i guess

[petapan]

(i should again emphasize, that unwnd slot is incredibly hard town at this point, never touch it)

why?

because in terms of solving once given enough space it was all genuine energized townwnd, he also started getting gunshy on his suspicion of you because saber was pushing you, little bit paranoid, little bit nuanced, was trying to put the pieces together


gammagooey also just came in hot out the gate and was working hard to catch up and put forth content when we'd settled into a weekend lull, his posting didn't feel like it was coming from an informed perspective of someone jumping into the game and he had a scumread on skitter when it was clear that wasn't happening from the posts in the blue room. his catchups have been good.



i also think the way Dunn did a dogcrap non-defense of him "unwnd is an innocent magical girl" looked like a scum whiteknight of a partner given that there wasn't any real weight of argument behind it, it was just a post made to distance himself from the wagon on unwnd at the time without actually derailing it. if it were a teammate a post like that is useless

[petapan]

i really ought to be leaving work now but before i do i'll leave my (obvious) vote here, as dwlee said we should be making a public record of people's stances before we start the vote

vote: hold

[petapan]

...that's actually valid wrt the Saber thoughts. I basically stopped posting in the blue room after I realized what I had to do didn't involve any discussion there and I felt like interacting there would be a detractor to my aims.
The problem for me is that's also a great way to get someone miseliminated and then turn on the other wagon members if you're scum.

i think if i'm scum i don't start that pivot until after i get the mis-elim secured, might even stay off infinity anyway and try to be mindful of positioning myself i guess

that would make sense I think
it's not like your vote was needed anyway, ydrasse would have voted there if you hadn't

I really wish there was some way to truly eliminate neither player, because I'm getting cold feet on peta which means this is [Sophie's Choice] for me

you can withhold your vote until we see if it's necessary, i'm aware you're emotionally invested in the infinity read

[petapan]

how many scum do you think are in the pink room, skitter

Max 1, i would be shocked if there were more than that

I wanted peta, unwnd/nu-gamma, or saber. From the blue room i'm townreading gamma and cakez the most, and ydra/gypyx to a lesser extent.

My room was all over the place and i cant imagine a 6 person pt with 2+ scum being unable to cough up a 3 person wagon, which we were utterly unable to do

Also i am significantly more sus of taly after the pt, i would just like to say
Toog did look better in the pt too fwiw

@gammagooey i see ur question but realistically will not be able to get to it until tomorrow , just fyi

i think it goes without saying that in a world where i have 2 teammate in pink thread i am not where i am. i would go so far as to argue it doesn't happen if i have even if i have

one

there given how incoherent it seems to have been

but then, the theory that pink is clean is pretty ridiculous too because it would suggest that i went all in hardcore powerwolfing for the sake of...making my teammate the second wagon in the even anyway, after spending a good chunk of time defending him. it makes no sense as any kind of rational scum play on my part.


anyway need to eat, will catch up in full later

[petapan]

@peta - you went over some Dunn+Taly thoughts in the PT, I'm interested in your prior thoughts on Taly pre-Dunn flip - was there anything in particular you had in mind in regards to Taly before the flip or was your read on him not particularly deep (something like "has good posts seems fine for now")

it was basically that, yeah. i also think that most of the time hyper-analytical players have trouble replicating their playstyle as scum and just kind of assumed that here, i didn't dig deeper until after the flipand saw that he can actually post fine as scum so it's not a good reason to clear him

[petapan]

oh, I'm getting BoP'd on my few scum games. Love it.

that is literally not what i am doing

i just realized i cannot give you the easy surface level clear. that's all

[petapan]

did anyone in the other thread do analysis on the wagon movement at the end of phase 2, since that seems to have been a point of interest for at least some of you

[petapan]

did anyone in the other thread do analysis on the wagon movement at the end of phase 2, since that seems to have been a point of interest for at least some of you

basis of my defense of you as no real reason for you to basically choose dunnstral to be in duel then push end of day even if you progression on dunnstral wasn't exactly transparent

i feel seen

thank you



fwiw, re: my progression on dunn, i went to review his scum games, including Isekai mafia, which at the time was still in progress. i then checked back here and realized that while his posts had seemed fine to me in the moment, the body of work wasn't great and he had done something that was incredibly scummy for him and made me change my mind. i didn't feel it was necessary to burn the tell (it's deeper than just inactivity, he lurks as either alignment and it was why i was so hesitant to vote him for a long time), so i didn't explain it, and at any rate anything after his flip would be post hoc justification that wouldn't be hard to fake as scum. but that was my thinking at the time

[petapan]

i think it goes without saying that in a world where i have 2 teammate in pink thread i am not where i am. i would go so far as to argue it doesn't happen if i have even if i have one there given how incoherent it seems to have been

but then, the theory that pink is clean is pretty ridiculous too because it would suggest that i went all in hardcore powerwolfing for the sake of...making my teammate the second wagon in the even anyway, after spending a good chunk of time defending him. it makes no sense as any kind of rational scum play on my part.

I mean it was not at all easy to make u the nom, i'm not really sure what yoj're trying to say with ur first point

And yeah i dont think the pink room is entirely empty either, like i said earlier i think there's 1

i literally do not let myself get put up with a 2 vote wagon, that's the damn point. i'd be micromanaging the absolute hell out of my teammate in that topic. i. would. not. allow. you. to. nominate. me.

And how it came on the heels of pushing cakez and dropping it shortly thereafter

okay great

that is what i do

i pressure people, i get responses, i change my mind. that's how i play. i thought cakez was scum and then after a short time arguing with him

i changed my mind

i probably don't flip on dunn as scum there because, what's the point of some half-assed in-between cred crab at that point in time, either i pull out everything to save him or i turn against him and throw him under the bus a lot sooner

but i literally don't care that i was wrong on dunn for a big chunk of the game, i got there in the end with the second vote of the game and a little bit of luck,

i am happy with the result

[petapan]

My analysis was based on Dunn's name dropping tendencies, which I felt Dunn is the type of scum player who actively ignores his buddies if he can. What I drew from his iso is how he never once mentions Saber ever, not even in a quote, and peta and Ydrasse only get a couple mentions at all. I figured there was some possibility of scum in one of those.

fwiw i don't hate this method but it's worth understanding that with a player as inactive as Dunn it's going to lead to a fair deal of false positives, and i don't think he's a total chump who doesn't know how to distance or whatever

(i also think saying he only gave "a couple mentions" of ydrasse is really glossing things over, he gave a detailed defense of her - i lean toward it being whiteknighting a town but not totally sure)

[petapan]

Immediately after losing a member? I don’t think so.

imagine me rolling my eyes at you extremely hard

[petapan]

as it is most of the time

[petapan]

anyway i think in all likelihood if there's scum split between the rooms they likely knew it was going to be incredibly hard to find a target in the blue room that people would support and that likely goes a way toward explaining the discordance of the pink room. theories about its purity are unmoored from reality, especially if toogeloo is town, because there's usually someone avoiding the wagon

[petapan]

i am antsy and want to move on but i want people to commit on the record to how they're voting before we vote to start

[petapan]

for what it's worth, i am treating this as though there is a chance i die here even if the votes on paper work out in my favor, either from sabotage shit or people just flat-out lying about their votes. so i want to get some reads out in the event of that happening.


Gamma Emerald
Gammagooey
SirCakez

don't touch these people, ever. i am incredibly confident they are town based on solving, response to pressure, how they were treated by dunn, etcetc. it's just not worth entertaining the idea of any of them as scum at this point.

Dwlee99

think very likely town for going after dunn consistently and not playing to look presentable

ulyana

gut feel but something of her responses to me this phase removed the doubt i had. just seemed deadset on wanting to convince me she is town. think by comparison to her scum games she's more pointed in her posting and significantly more active. this is a softer read than the other ones so i wouldn't say never re-eval but. should not be an immediate concern

skitter30
Gypyx
Ydrasse
Taly
Toogeloo

this is the murk. i wouldn't put a high level of confidence on anyone here flipping scum but would think at least one probably is. i still think skitter mostly looks good from interactions with dunnstral, and her play has seemed town to me through the game even though we clearly are wildly diverging in our view of the game now. maybe i'm overconfident in reading her after recent exposure to her scum game but i don't think this is it. everyone after that is the ones with the weakest reasons to clear. a lot of gypyx's posts have been suuuuuper awkward but that doesn't mean scum for him necessarily, from what i can tell he's still trying to figure things out and isn't playing toward an obvious agenda

Infinity 324

unwnd had a post in the PT about her posting seeming to be "struggling with TMI" and i feel like that's a good assessment of her iso. has mostly felt flat and the scumcases she's advanced have seemed so halfhearted. defense of gamma was also very...tepid. i just came away liking what she said a lot less on reread than i had thought in the moment. i wouldn't say i'm super confident she's scum but would flip her pretty much every time here, protests of gamma emerald be damned

Saber

Kill on sight. should absolutely not survive another phase. Just completely flatlined in the PT for no identifiable reason and at this point posting has been limited in focus and mostly geared toward pushing whatever the popular target was, looked reasonable to a point,



i don't think my reads are anything special, and in fact probably aren't very good, but i feel strongly about the top/bottom parts and want to leave some form of direction here in the event i do die. flip the ones on the very bottom and evaluate from there

[petapan]

that list was written before ulyana's most recent posts but i feel even better about having her up there now

[petapan]

sircakez/peta/toog

my mind said so

i don’t think it’s the solve but something whispered it to me

that would be such willful levels of gamethrowing from me that i'd have to blacklist myself

but having a ridiculous team guess pop into your head can be a towny post sure whatever

Okay so very recently
Can I point out that aside from infinity herself, no one has said they’re voting peta? I’m also the only one who’s voted to abstain. And we’re worried about scum manipulation of the ballot

how exactly

?

gamma, i want it on the record because 1. scum can

lie

about who they're voting, but i want people to commit, rather than acting fencesitty and potentially making excuses afterwards 2. there's still probably a potential sabotage in play

because realistically in a regular game with regular mechanics i do not ever go over here but this is probably the best opportunity scum will have to kill me, so i have to be paranoid about it and assume there is a realistic chance i die here and get out everything i can in the event that happens

[petapan]

hadn't heard this one, good tune

[petapan]

Kill on sight. should absolutely not survive another phase. Just completely flatlined in the PT for no identifiable reason and at this point posting has been limited in focus and mostly geared toward pushing whatever the popular target was, looked reasonable to a point,

Oh God, and then I see this. This is absolutely not reasonable when you

know

my lack of activity has nothing to do with my alignment.

i think your content sucks ass

[petapan]

like i don't care. i do not care. do not whine about being on vacation. it does not matter to me. i do think the way you are approaching the game is from a town mindset, your posts are hollow, they do not speak to me of legitimate solving motivation.

[petapan]

don't think i didn't notice you glomming on to every slight hint of paranoia i outed

[petapan]

I cannot understand how that is ever in good faith. I am on VACATION, I have very limited time, and was even having to skim our PT, I comment on whatever catches my interest, and I go out of my way to still out in effort.

I am beyond irritated right now, and wanna believe you're acting in terribly bad faith rather than being genuine with that.

yes saber i'm slamming you while i'm the one up for dying and not you, good, realistic thought

[petapan]

i'm not, you fucking slimeball

[petapan]

keep falling onto that as a line of defense though sure looks very town

[petapan]

baww

[petapan]

the fact is this is a game where some people are as part of the game lying and trying to manipulate others

to that end i have to have hard heart and not care when someone complains about their feelings or how i'm being unfair because they've been busy irl and didn't have the time. i did not care when galron cried about it even though i was probably wrong, i do not care when it comes to you. displays of emotionality and making excuses are only going to make me think people are falling back on that as a way of appearing vulnerable to make people want to be on their side. i care for none of it


i think the way you're reacting to me here is tantamount to a scumclaim

[petapan]

it's so so so inwardly focused, all about you, concern for how you're being perceived, that's the most important thing to you

in a phase where you are not up for elimination

, it's very clear to see

[petapan]

saber eclain to me the scum motivation in

bad faith reading you when i could very well flip this phase

[petapan]

btw infinity if i wrongly sheeped scum onto you here i'm sorry, i just did not have any good ideas

[petapan]

the whole split thread mechanic is wildly antitown, not a grouse, just want people to understand whatever the outcome here there shouldn't be necessarily a ton of blame assignment because the mechanics create a suboptimal decisionmaking environment

[petapan]

gamma it is literally one phase in a mafia game and the people who were being discussed have not flipped yet

the point i am literally trying to make is that these things are made to be difficult and so getting down over it is the wrong thing to do

and there's a broader conversation about not treating every phase in a mafia game like a life or death affair like people seem to but that's probably beyond the scope of things that are necessary to talk about here

(i mean, i feel bad i could not have ceph's back but that was literally by design of the setup)

[petapan]

well why so affirmative ? Like, i don't know what sane scumteam goes "yeah you got this dunnboi, this post is litterally gonna big brain all of them townies huhehuhaha"

this is assuming a level of coordination that almost no scumteam actually bothers with, i doubt dunn ran that post by his team. i don't really see the purpose of this line of discussion. i think the stuff after the event was locked in isn't much of a clue to anything

[petapan]

gamma, genuine question here: why not do the inverse of what you’re doing (towncasing infinity) by scum casing peta if you’re that certain infinity is town? i guess that makes sense to me because you’re treating them as preflipped town so why not go to the other option to save them?

uh

[petapan]

that’s not to call you scum peta but i’m just trying to understand gamma more

that would fairly obviously imply a level of confidence in me being scum that he does not have, that's a very odd question

[petapan]

the only actual cause for doubt he has is "sure peta's posts sound town

but he can fake that

" which i can tell you is a bad reason to suspect me that will be wrong most of the time

[petapan]

i guess it’s because gamma keeps talking about uh, how he tried to save infinity and stuff (and he did and i’m not knocking that) but he’s not doing the thing i feel really saves them? so i just want to understand

do you actually have doubts about gamma's alignment here

[petapan]

a little bit?

i feel like he would have to be playing the best scumgame of his life at this point and is a million miles outside his typical range

this is in addition to the posts pooky called dunn out for in 1430 were about gamma, i don't think those are bus posts


i was going to ask a very irritated question if you were, like, trying to influence gamma into killing me

[petapan]

fuck

[petapan]

god damn it

[petapan]

well this is awkward

[petapan]

but uh yeah i don't think gypyx should be tapdancing on the grave of someone i clearly tilted out of the game. don't want to assume it's alignment indicative but yeah.



was looking for an excuse to retire this account anyway so seems like a good opportunity

[petapan]

Wait, why does

Infinity

bus a partner here?

who was this supposed to be in response to

[petapan]

but uh yeah i don't think gypyx should be tapdancing on the grave of someone i clearly tilted out of the game. don't want to assume it's alignment indicative but yeah.



was looking for an excuse to retire this account anyway so seems like a good opportunity

oh so that's what happened

wdym by "tapdancing"?

i mean the celebration in 3771 was out of line and anyway i don't really want to read into replacements that way

[petapan]

Like, I really don't imagine scum voting partners into the duel. This might just be how I'd play scum, but I would not be apt to risk a partner for elimination if I had plenty of alternatives of which must have contained town- which event 2 did.

infinity didn't vote me into the duel though so i don't see what you're trying to say

[petapan]

can someone on the blue team plz explain to me how infinity got nommed, and why? like who were the main pushers / who was voting her?

saber led off the vote saying infinity's vote on dunn looked like a bus


i followed despite my own reservations about saber which are now extremely clear because i didn't like infinity's trajectory and wasn't going to avoid a vote just because i suspected the person leading it

all of cakez/ydrasse/gypyx were okay with it for their own reasons they can elaborate on it if they want

gamma loudly objected, unwnd had suspected infinity but was actively avoiding the wagon and looking at other people because of his scumread on saber

[petapan]

r.e. sircakez i think you should have gotten to town-him quite a lot earlier than you did, and were pushing him for quite bad reasons - it looked to me like you kept trying to make him vialbe, and when that just wasn't happening but dunn was starting to become a thing, you decided go there instead

we clearly don't think alike so i don't really care where i "should" be reading someone as town on your timeline, i don't care about being first or even getting credit really i just want to arrive at the right answer on my timeline


and i don't even blame you for thinking that about my timing on picoting to dunn, but that's at best a Weight of Sin read against me for being wrong for a big chunk of time, not, like, any play that actually makes sense as scum. either i'd turn on him a lot sooner or i'd keep defending him, i wouldn't expect a late capitulation to help that just seems like the worst of both worlds

[petapan]

anyway i think in all likelihood if there's scum split between the rooms they likely knew it was going to be incredibly hard to find a target in the blue room that people would support and that likely goes a way toward explaining the discordance of the pink room. theories about its purity are unmoored from reality, especially if toogeloo is town, because there's usually someone avoiding the wagon

>.> you can't argue this but also tell me you're not scum because you wouldn't have allowed yourself to get nommed

i think they're two entirely compatible ideas considering

i know i am town

and if there's scum in the pink room they were okay with me being the nomination

[petapan]

Okay so very recently
Can I point out that aside from infinity herself, no one has said they’re voting peta? I’m also the only one who’s voted to abstain. And we’re worried about scum manipulation of the ballot

how exactly

?

i'm voting peta and think that something fuck-y happened in your pt for infinity to be the nom now when it doesn't seem like that many people are scumreading them anyways

that's abjectly wrong - saber, cakez, and ydrasse were all pretty strong on infinity-scum (gypyx was more of a "other people want it so best to go with consensus" opinion), and i felt

they were the best possible vote of anyone in pink room

. trying to make a statement like this is just a distortion


i think it's entirely possible i was wrong now, but i'm not ruling out the possibility just because infinity looks town now because i don't think they'd have many other options for how to play this as scum

[petapan]

actively annoyed at 3862, like do you even care to get the facts there, skitter? there are six other people who can verify that multiple people thought infinity was the best vote

[petapan]

re: votes

i thought this might be relevant, so i saved a draft in my notes to track the votes at the end of Event Two

Votecount at the end of Page 129

Dunnstral [5]: Taly, Dwlee99, SirCakez, Ydrasse, unwnd
unwnd [4]: Saber, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324
SirCakez [2]: petapan, Dunnstral
Saber [1]: Gamma Emerald
Toogeloo [1]: Gypyx

Not Voting [2]: ulyana, Toogeloo

Votecount at the end of Page 130

unwnd [4]: Saber, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324
Toogeloo [4]: Gypyx, Ydrasse, unwnd, petapan
Dunnstral [3]: Taly, Dwlee99, SirCakez
SirCakez [2]: , Dunnstral
Saber [1]: Gamma Emerald


Not Voting [2]: ulyana, Toogeloo

Votecount at the end of Page 131

Toogeloo [5]: Gypyx, Ydrasse, unwnd, petapan, SirCakez
unwnd [4]: Saber, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324
Dunnstral [2]: Taly, Dwlee99
SirCakez [1]: Dunnstral
Saber [1]: Gamma Emerald


Not Voting [2]: ulyana, Toogeloo

Votecount at the end of Page 132

Toogeloo [6]: Gypyx, Ydrasse, unwnd, petapan, SirCakez, Dunnstral
unwnd [4]: Saber, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324
Dunnstral [2]: Taly, Dwlee99
Saber [1]: Gamma Emerald


Not Voting [2]: ulyana, Toogeloo

Votecount at the end of Page 133

Toogeloo [6]: Gypyx, Ydrasse, unwnd, SirCakez, Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald
Dunnstral [5]: Taly, Dwlee99, Infinity 324, petapan, Saber
unwnd [2]: Ydrasse, skitter30


Not Voting [2]: ulyana, Toogeloo

[petapan]

i just checked and my vote on dunn put him in the lead over unwnd

would love to hear your argument for why that makes me scum

[petapan]

also the dunn vote on toog there is very likely an indicator that toogeloo is town

[petapan]

if infinity is town, it's on me for following a vote from someone i actively suspected

peta, who was the Blue Team most resistant to nominating?

i'm...not sure there was anyone because there was not that much else in discussion

toog was the de facto second choice but i felt like going back after them was a mistake, i think i was the only one strongly against

gamma didn't want anyone but toog to be the vote


i toyed with the idea of voting ulyana, but see-sawed back and forth and ultimately decided against it

gammagooey voted skitter and i actively did not like that idea, everyone else just kind of ignored it

you i just said "eh, read on dunn is slightly inconsistent", gamma disliked that a lot (of course), but you were never really in consideration

i don't think anyone floated the idea of dwlee as scum

[petapan]

i just checked and my vote on dunn put him in the lead over unwnd

would love to hear your argument for why that makes me scum

I said to skitter that she was wrong about something if your vote (which was prior to infinity's, and spurred infinity's vote) was not clearing but infinity's was. I never got something satisfactory back in my recollection. Like skitter is stretching for every reason to keep infinity alive here, and people voting you over them are making a big mistake or are scum

my vote was actually after infinity's but i outed my scumread of dunn before that


if skitter still wants my head after everything i've posted this phase and the context of my dunn vote then she's just scumclaiming full stop and if i go over it should come back on her

[petapan]

i thought it was infinity's vote that tipped the dunn wagon over >.>
my mistake

i don't know if that really changes my mind on either of you tho

cool, you can die then

[petapan]

sounds good

i still take issue with the timing of your dunn scumread even if your vote was the one that technically put him over

ok great realistically you should not be scumreading me here at this point by any stretch of the imagination and plowing full speed ahead anyway means you just straight up aren't trying to read me

[petapan]

sounds good

i still take issue with the timing of your dunn scumread even if your vote was the one that technically put him over

ok great realistically you should not be scumreading me here at this point by any stretch of the imagination and plowing full speed ahead anyway means you just straight up aren't trying to read me

i still do tho

ok great it's coming back on your head and no one should allow you to squirm your way out of it

i try to avoid this ego based read crap but for certain people it's inevitable and you're blowing past about a dozen red lights that should be giving you pause

[petapan]

peta [3]:

infinity[1], skitter[1], toog[1]

infinity [4]:

peta[1], dwlee[2], cakez[1]


pass: gamma


this is my informal VC, i could assume how certain people will vote but don't want to without a hard verbal commitment

i would like it if people could out their vote if they're decided

[petapan]

(also pointing out that it doesn't seem particularly likely that you're actually gonna get flipped here, so not sure what you're worrying about ...)

i think it's more up in the air than many believe and i am covering my bases in the event you get what you want

[petapan]

I think

Infinity/Peta

could use some hugs right now.

i'm doing fine tbh

feeling a little guilty over certain stuff (and embarrassed by the altslip but that's w/e)

but nothing major, i'm not tilted or feeling down. how i am responding to skitter is slightly petty but i do believe she'd be able to read me better and has made absolutely no effort to try to, it's a rational view even if it doesn't seem like one.

[petapan]

Gammagooey's town.

There. I contributed a read to this game today. Bye.

slot's been hard town for a while

[petapan]

i just wanted to reinforce the statement

[petapan]

the thing about skitter's analysis here is that it's totally irrational

my read shift on dunn is bad and makes me scum but infinity is somehow town for their timing despite their shift making even less sense and coming

after

i said that i wanted dunn. somehow two people whose trajectory on dunnstral is not all that dissimilar get totally opposite reads

when presented with the evidence that i put dunn over so that he'd be in the duel in the first place, she blows past it and says she doesn't care. anyone who actually cared about trying to read into people's alignments this game would try to resolve the cognitive dissonance there.



she thinks most of the scum are in the blue room but anyone actually observing the game would be hard pressed to name someone i am partnered with

it is obviously not gammagooey, i would not hard tunnel galron/unwnd as my partner while defending dunnstral
it is not ydrasse for similar reasons
it is very obviously not cakez for similar reasons

it feels gross to anti-align myself this way but it is very clearly not the saber slot

so who does that leave? you could say gamma emerald. but i think most people agree he is town anyway. so that's out.

that leaves...gypyx? i don't think there's anything that makes me obviously not teamed with gypyx but that's a real narrow solve to be advocating and still leaves one in the pink room, i don't know if she's even claiming to scumread gypyx either

the thing is i don't think she's worked through this or cares about it at all because rational analysis would hae to conclude i don't make much sense as scum. but that is an inconvenient conclusion for her so she's avoiding this stuff

so instead she is advocating

incredibly strongly

for my elimination based on

incredibly thin

evidence. the confidence level is absurdly disproportionate to the amount of reasons she has to scumread me, and that is because it is not a real read

[petapan]

i feel like i'm not in a place to even evaluate that slot right now but harley's posting is doing herself no favors

[petapan]

why would i, i assume you're competent enough to work your way into the game at your own pace

[petapan]

how many scum do you think are in the pink room, skitter

Max 1, i would be shocked if there were more than that

I wanted peta, unwnd/nu-gamma, or saber. From the blue room i'm townreading gamma and cakez the most, and ydra/gypyx to a lesser extent.

My room was all over the place and i cant imagine a 6 person pt with 2+ scum being unable to cough up a 3 person wagon, which we were utterly unable to do

Also i am significantly more sus of taly after the pt, i would just like to say
Toog did look better in the pt too fwiw

@gammagooey i see ur question but realistically will not be able to get to it until tomorrow , just fyi

returning to this, again

i am very painfully obviously not aligned with the Galron slot. although it was not clear at the time of this post or the voting in the PT, i am very painfully obviously not aligned with the Saber slot.

as scum sometimes you just have to ignore things that are obviously true because they are detrimental to your win condition if you acknowledge them, and have to hope town just glosses over and doesn't pick up on this stuff. that is what is happening here. if she was actually thinking about who i could potentially be teamed with her view of the game would be significantly different

[petapan]

why would i, i assume you're competent enough to work your way into the game at your own pace

We’re finally getting somewhere, you recognize that I’m so far incompetent. Thanks for the compliment.

Sorry, the “jerk” thing was probably unwarrented.

i'm not offended

nor am i trying to come off as being a jerk i just believe that you'll be more readable if i don't spoonfeed you

[petapan]

why does this game have 10+ new pages and the vote still hasn't started

some stuff happened, i tilted Saber and she got replaced by Harley, skitter started posting and is pushing for me to die for crap reasons, i just utterly destroyed her and she should be eliminated for what she's trying to pull

[petapan]

the fact is this is a game where some people are as part of the game lying and trying to manipulate others

to that end i have to have hard heart and not care when someone complains about their feelings or how i'm being unfair because they've been busy irl and didn't have the time. i did not care when galron cried about it even though i was probably wrong, i do not care when it comes to you. displays of emotionality and making excuses are only going to make me think people are falling back on that as a way of appearing vulnerable to make people want to be on their side. i care for none of it


i think the way you're reacting to me here is tantamount to a scumclaim

i disagree with this because when you were attacking me I felt very similarly. you can be ruder than necessary honestly.

yeah i'm coming to terms with that

the way i play is stuck in the past and is out of sync with current norms. i did decently playing with aggression in the past but the playstyle is clearly unsustainable (although i believe the stuff about needing to have something of a hard heart when it's possible the other person is trying to manipulate you)

if i was out of line with you earlier i apologize

[petapan]

Peta/Dwlee/Gammagooey

, I feel compelled to speak with you 3.

hi, i'm home from work now

[petapan]

I'm slightly paranoid of

Peta/Cakez

S/S but I don't have grounds for that.

fwiw i think i'd be an absolute nutcase to try to bus cakez with dunn while dunn was getting run up


cakez is, like, the only one of my townreads that i consider fallible in that i could see him plausibly tmi bussing his teammate (sorry cakez!) but in terms of how he reacted to me attacking him was just incredibly genuine and i'm confident enough in that to just say bank on it

i'm, like, a little floored he's townreading me and wasn't sure why but was afraid to question it

[petapan]

Peta/Dwlee/Gammagooey

, I feel compelled to speak with you 3.

hi, i'm home from work now

Rank my 10 posts (starting with 4045) in order from least mindmelding to most mindmelding.

IF

you want to do some homework ;D

lol uh

not sure all of these are statements i can mindmeld on as i am obviously biased on some of them but ok

4052/4054 - the points toward toogeloo-town are, i feel, more likely true than the reasons for suspecting them at this point in time. i was annoyed at them not really putting in effort and believe in policying that type of play every time (because, as i said earlier in the game, i was in a game where a scum did nothing but troll all game and still ended up making F5).

i also think that if toog is town ydrasse is suspect from the wagon movement toward the end of Event Two

4055 - will vote anyone to avoid a tie, yes agree ties are bad and letting scum control the kill is the worst outcome because we just learn less
4050 - yeah i'm ready to start the vote i guess

4045 - re: regretting the nominations - this one is hard. i obviously feel much less good about my vote now, but so much of that is hindsight and have knowledge and interactions i didn't when i made that decision, and so that couldn't have been taken into account

i believed my choice made sense at the time based on the evidence i had and i struggled to find a better vote

but also, crucially, i don't know the alignments of infinity of the saberslot right now. it's still an incomplete judgment

if i was wrong then clearly there was a failure in my process somewhere, i drew the wrong conclusions from the information i had

but it's also possible that my secondary and tertiary suspects at the time were also wrong and i was just so lost that i was never going to make the right call

this is part of why i like plying town less, trying to sort through information is hard

4047/4049 - i think infinity probably is flipping town at this point in time, yes. has had enough posts that ring true

however, i hate to do this, but

in the event i actually go over here, do not clear infinity based off this phase

because as scum, what are their options here? if they weren't on record as scumreading me they can't really push hard against me. the only thing they could do really is act resigned and hope people read it as townie and paranoia on me. i don't think their play this phase is, like, unfakeable for scum. i wouldn't go right back to the well on them, i'd flip other people first assuredly (skitter and, uh, saber slot, eugh) but i don't think it makes them definite town

i'm still bracing for the townflip and will feel bad if it happens but i am making no assumptions before that

4048/4053 - the ego boost thing/you being proven fallible i don't have much to say about these, i think the feeling of fallibility sort of points to you being town but if you're scum i would be okay with losing to you at this point

4051 - paranoid of me/cakez, while obviously i can't agree with that i did explain to you the only reason to tinfoil cakez but i think he's just solidly town

[petapan]

VOTE: start

[petapan]

have not read the 190-odd posts since i last posted

[petapan]

@infinity - i'm sorry i let myself get talked out of my read on you. i shouldn't have let that happen.

probably one of the worse decisions i've ever made. know it's just one segment of the game but it stings

[petapan]

i got excited for a moment reading the rules and thinking it was actually possible to autowin but the incentive is for scum to kill early

[petapan]

i ... dont think there's a way to cheese this tbh

i think sending townreads but potentially deep scum first is the most advantageous although that likely means scum kill someone who's threatening to them. they're not going to risk autoloss or mech outing so someone in your first 4 is going to die

[petapan]

I'm willing to sac myself today if we go with my plan.

i am fairly sure you are misreading the event rules

[petapan]

i

same question as posed to ydrasse above

i

who do you think

scums would most like to kill here

whoever of the people sent earliest is the hardest to eliminate

[petapan]

okay im going to suggest something to everyone

i have suggested this as scum in another game, but i want to know if people think there's merit in speedrunning this after a certain point, of like

hammering out votes to send people through to not let the stagehands have time to react of who is best kill

admire the attempted gamesmanship but as voting requires majority it feels unlikely we can just speedchain through votes with no scum online at all

[petapan]

whoever of the people sent earliest is the hardest to eliminate

hm,

% on me dying if sent first?

and!

would that be worth

eh i don't know

i'm not that paranoid of you at this point in time

i don't think it's "worth" trying to intentionally sacrifice someone (which is why selfvotes are a little strange to me)

[petapan]

i feel like the only thing that should truly matter is working out an intended bottom 4 and then maybe try to speedchain through the rest in a random fashion

[petapan]

Peta

please don't be misting me, it will haunt me forever that I actually hit S/S on Event 2 out of the gate and has henceforth rejected that take in full for the remainder of the game after one flips scum.

shrug i have something of a reputation, i am always going to get fear read because i won a few scum games in 2012

i feel like i am wildly outside the capacity of my own scum game and i don't care if that comes across ridiculous, competent scumplay is going to differ from town play in a way that's not

that

hard to pick up on if you tune yourself to it

i've just been absurdly messy this game in a way that would not be beneficial to me in the slightest as scum

that's really the thing i'm just not trying to play to a narrative here i'm all over the place because i'm desperately searching for the answers

[petapan]

i had thoughts on skitter while the thread was locked


and the thought was does skitter really go all out trying to elim me there as mafia using terrible logic when she knows i'm likely to react explosively and have her thread standing be completely obliterated

go through that trouble when it's a t/t cross

and the answer is probably not because i think she'd play it more strategically than that

but i'm still incredibly annoyed at it all

[petapan]

Do you think meta will help me read you, and will you send any links?

To peta

*shrug* you can try if you'd like, i don't think i have any obvious stylistic markers, it'd be a lot of reading and i'm not sure most people care to do that much homework (and i don't think games on, uh, my alt would because i consciously try to use a different playstyle on it). i think i ought to be readable from this game alone but it depends how desperate you are to sort me (i always end up trying to deep meta dive people late in games because i'm looking for any sort of answer)

but i think as scum i'm always trying to work in service of some narrative and do things to appear town, it's a much narrower range of play than i have as town, i think that's how the handful of people that actually read me well do it

if you actually want links let me know

Actually I'm curious further

Peta

, do you think my play aligns more with competent scum or messy, thread-shifting town?

if i'm being totally honest? at this point in time, competent scum

but that isn't really based on anything rational, if i had a loaded gun could i kill you based on that, absolutely not. i think i just am feeling paranoid tonight because i'm afraid that i'm too easy to manipulate especially given where i was last event

[petapan]

i feel like toog trying to break the game here is +town, the intention came across as real

[petapan]

i kind of want to do a plan where at some point we just make someone commander in chief and have them dictate who we vote and blitz through it, at least for the first 5

[petapan]

Spoiler:

i hate you

[petapan]

i feel like toog trying to break the game here is +town, the intention came across as real

I also went for the game breaking move, with the explicit acknowledgment that MT probably didn’t plan for it
What I didn’t factor in was the wording being a clear sign MT was two steps ahead all along

i mean yes but i don't need to townread you more

[petapan]

ok


i feel like i need to step back and not live so much in the moment because i'm being reactive with my reads and i don't think it is leading to good thinking

[petapan]

i'm feeling the best abt gammaemerald ydra and dwlee presently, and they definitely should cross

i'm confused about the two non gamma people there, from your pov

[petapan]

i'm more than a little bit annoyed that infinity died last event

peta i didn't really have thoughts on for most of day1, the phase where dunn got nommed i really didn't like his cakez push because i felt like he ought to have been townreading cakez by that point, and i didn't like how he dropped it in favor of dunn at the time that he did. i may have gotten a little tunneled, i realized over the night.

???

[petapan]

they weren't going to flip scum and i was annoyed that that they were in the event and i was annoyed that they died, and i feel all of that irrespective of my read on u

okay

that is fair and i regret letting myself get talked into/talking myself that read pretty heavily


i am a little concerned that you're walking this back right after i expressed doubt on you while still saying the same shallow stuff i had issue with in the first place

but i don't want to get stupid with my read for kneejerk reasons especially when i had you as town prior to this

[petapan]

if i understeand correctly though, the last player to cross can basically not be killed by scum right?

yes but the incentive is strongly toward scum using their kill in the earliest people to cross and to that extent it's better to save your top townreads until later

gypyx if you are town here i feel it is important you step it up this phase and make it evident because i cannot allow you to go through this game as a question mark

when you have the time i want an ordered reads list from you

[petapan]

well, i'm not even sure i have what it takes to do what you're asking there to be wholly honest

don't get me wrong, i'll do your readslist, but like, see what i mean ?

look, if you are town, just do the best you can and from there it's my job to read you and try to get it right, i'm just trying to get you involved here

[petapan]

i have been thinking about things


first of all, i think picking and choosing people individually is a mistake

what really matters is the people getting left out, the PoE

ultimately everyone else is getting a chance to cross, but the event design is sort of geared toward tricking us in that sense, making us pick things one at a time but with increasingly shorter deadlines, and the pressure from that + the specific mechanics relating to the first 4 players to cross are trying to bait out rushed decisions and disarray. we ought to avoid that.

i propose that rather than deciding who crosses, one at a time, we vote on who gets left behind now using HURT: tags, and the people who get the most votes get left behind. after that we can chain our way through the crossing voting. this i believe is the best way to play this phase mechanically, and it also reduces the amount of pain/time spent arguing because we get the work done up front

[petapan]

as for my reads themself, i mostly want to throw them in the garbage. i think i was drawing hasty conclusions in a way that was not well thought out and is likely to lead to bad results.


i think the most charitable way i would describe my own play this game is "lazy dogshit". i went back on my infinity read for stupid reasons i barely thought through when a trivial amount of effort would have essentially cleared them. they deserved better this game.

this isn't to excessively self-flagellate, it's just recognizing that i was chosen to live over them, but i'm not sure i was playing a better game, just being more forceful. since that decision was made, the absolute least i can do is give the absolute best effort i can to show that me continuing to live in this game was not a mistake. because infinity deserved better, and i owe it to them

so i am going to try extremely hard, starting from today. the most tryhard town game i have ever played. i am going to examine everyone critically and not just lazily halfass skim and make broad sweeping conclusions. i want to be able to say i put in the work. i don't know if it will help. i don't think my instincts are very good and i'm not good at analysis beyond the most basic stuff. but i want to be able to say i tried. in the past whenever i get stuck and something is hard to think about i just tend to brush the problem aside and i don't want to keep doing that here.

so i'm going to go over everyone in the game, one at a time, starting today. making no assumptions, avoiding blind spots. we'll see how this goes.

[petapan]

iirc Gamma and Peta found you suspicious

i had very vocally changed my stance since then, though

[petapan]

We should do a Kingmaker.

One person whom (most) everyone believes is 100% town, decides the order of who crosses and who gets left behind.

crossing order yes but i want people to actually publicly COMMIT to stances on a PoE because that is more useful than throwing everything in one person's hands

[petapan]

i hate to feel like i am confirmation biasing but harley the confidence with which you are putting out reads on very little evidence cannot help but strike me as informed

[petapan]

people should just vote someone to cross or this is going to take forever

cakez why are you so insistent on rushing everything when it's clear that making hasty decisions led us down a bad path last event and you yourself have expressed difficulty with your reads this game

VOTE: peta
Yeah let’s just do this rn

i would appreciate it if, at the absolute bare minimum, you would give me an opportunity to reread like i have publicly expressed that i want to before pushing a vote that may prove fatal to me

[petapan]

And if you were theoretically promoted to Hand of Crossings if I remember correctly you're not fans of Saber & peta - do you think they're particularly likely to be scum together, or would you be fine with your MASTER leaving just one of them uncrossed to hit what they thought a more likely scum grouping would be? I'm also interested in any spicy panda takes you have under that fuzz

I'd prefer not to say anything unless I am made Master Commander. Since that seems extremely unlikely, then I don't need to say anything at all and will just wait until the town leaders that most certainly aren't scum decide for me.

feel free to suit yourself but i would recommend, if you are town, not completely surrendering your agency in this phase

[petapan]

Also Gypyx should not cross, he’s currently my strongest sr.

based on what

[petapan]

cakez why are you so insistent on rushing everything when it's clear that making hasty decisions led us down a bad path last event and you yourself have expressed difficulty with your reads this game

I want to get the process moving is all because we have to do like ~8 of these? and we're giving more time for scum to manipulate things

then we vote on a PoE and get "the process" completed

all at once

. i wrote an entire wall about how doing this piecemeal is going to fuck things up and the event design is meant to mess with people's thinking in that fashion

and I don't think last phase was rushed anyways - I don't really see a world where Infinity was not the elim there

well obviously that was the wrong decision and i am not satisfied with the thinking that went into it and feel there is a need for re-evaluation. i am confused why you seem content to mostly barrel ahead

[petapan]

I might re-read Gypyx and Ydrasse a bit tonight/tomorrow (Toog I disagree with being on the survive list for now but I could maybe deal with it for a skitter+harley death)

Ulyana I'd be fine with voting across first, Cakez I'm pretty fine w/ too atm

my first impulse is that i continue to not think toogeloo plays this way as scum and would not put them in my PoE, the advocacy for getting rid of them is a little puzzling

[petapan]

cakez why are you so insistent on rushing everything when it's clear that making hasty decisions led us down a bad path last event and you yourself have expressed difficulty with your reads this game

I want to get the process moving is all because we have to do like ~8 of these? and we're giving more time for scum to manipulate things

then we vote on a PoE and get "the process" completed

all at once

. i wrote an entire wall about how doing this piecemeal is going to fuck things up and the event design is meant to mess with people's thinking in that fashion

and I don't think last phase was rushed anyways - I don't really see a world where Infinity was not the elim there

well obviously that was the wrong decision and i am not satisfied with the thinking that went into it and feel there is a need for re-evaluation. i am confused why you seem content to mostly barrel ahead

ok I see re the first thing you said
but are you saying you would have rather died than Infinity??

i'm not saying i'd rather have died

but i was responsible for voting infinity into that spot last phase and realized my reasoning was quite bad especially as i should have been clearing them rather than suspecting them and so some amount of re-evaluating is necessary, i don't want to rest lazily on assumptions (i am working on this right now)

[petapan]

but i was responsible for voting infinity into that spot last phase and realized my reasoning was quite bad especially as i should have been clearing them rather than suspecting them and so some amount of re-evaluating is necessary, i don't want to rest lazily on assumptions (i am working on this right now)

Who would you have chosen had you cleared infinity?

that would require me to have done solving that i did not do at the time because i was stuck in my thinking

impossible question to answer

[petapan]

VOTE: ulyana
I feel like she's dispassionate and disconnected from the game in a way that she wasn't in radio buzz as rousseau, but somewhat reminds me of what I remember tracy flick being like in student council

Without looking at meta I disagree with this read

then you're probably evil too because I think what I'm seeing should be plainly obvious if you even glance at ulyana's ISO or just pay attention to what she says as you read up
and this is a different brand of obviousness than what I was throwing around before, that's was like a bright flame to me, this is like a strong current of a river

Probably evil

seems strong for someone simply disagreeing with a read of yours. Are any of Infinity, skitter, of Ydrasse probably evil for disagreeing?

mmmmmmm

[petapan]

i'm gonna start with dunn's iso because it's short and i will have an easier time focusing on it. this is going to be a more raw note taking style rather than working things into legible conclusions so as to be presentable, not how i'd normally post things but i'm just going to try to be as open with my process as i can be right now even if it is not necessarily the most readable and ventures into IIoA territory because i want to be thorough.

the interactions from dunn should be taken as supplemental to main reads on players rather than being the entire basis for a read. some of this stuff probably won't be important/readable. doesn't matter

173 - "And your motive is what?" to Taly
175 - reply to dwlee about speculating on mechanics of first even, in response to something pooky said
206 - "your reasoning doesn't add up here", shade in response to Cakez
208 - sarcastic eyeroll "i was scum in that game" in response to Toogeloo

210 - "I didn't want to believe that everybody advocating for self votes was town" this is an interesting comment. to my memory, the people who had been advocating some form of self vote, whether joking or not were prism/pooky/taly. i haven't fact checked this but if i had to make a snap judgment here i would say that this means the people who had been advocating some form of self vote in the early game

are

town

218 - "what kill?" in response to dwlee
219 - "How am I supposed to interperet this?" in response to dwlee making a comment about among us mafia

325 - "So do you think the 3 in 290 are scum or not?" in response to gamma's early post voting pooky. questioning/joining the pile-on
415 - shading toogeloo over a joke post suggesting a galron elimination
416 - Galron asks why we're eliminating someone less than 24 hours into the game, dunn says "we're just voting" in response. nothing reply but maybe slightly unaligning just for the fact that he bothered to respond to him at all
417 - "I don't get why Gamma is tilted all of a sudden"
418 - this seems to be a response addressed to gamma despite quoting Galron, saying "We had a problem with your viewpoint, not the fact that you were playing serious"
419 - re-quoting his old post and voting cakez. i think this is overall a good look for cakez

1015 - cakez says "that said I see where you're coming from re; it not adding up for you" in response to dunn, dunn says "I'm not sure that you do?".

i think this is a very good look for cakez

1031 - "I'm interested in hearing about Cephrir being scummy" in response to Prism's reads list. mild town points for that slot, i think
1035 - "Without looking at meta I disagree with this read" in response to Gamma voting ulyana
1049 - "I'm evil because I disagree with you is a lame take" in response to Gamma's 1040. the previous shade is iffy but
1055 - this is shade on ceph, which is not relevant because ceph is dead but the form is at least notable as we see

1082/1090 - response to Taly about how there's no power roles so there's no need to announce intent to hammer on Gamma Emerald, followed with a comment about how not every game needs to be painful, seemingly urging people to end the day.

i think that this is a good look for gamma unless we assume some amount of 5D chess taking place here, he seems to want to push people to kill gamma but is not positioning himself to take credit for a bus or anything of the sort

1093[post] - arguing with ceph, just taking note of this here because i do think dunn tends to interact/argue with his partners less

[post]1111 - E-1 vote on Gamma Emerald

1420/1421 - posts on gamma voting himself into the chair. these are the ones pooky caught him on. honestly, the massive hedge here on gamma's alignment is something i would not say is a good look for gamma. in a vacuum it'd seem partnery. but it's just a single data point, other things look good

1423 - "What happened to the multiple people who were willing to hammer Gamma?"
1464 - response to taly clarifying statements about gamma. "I'm pointing out that he had a chance to get into the chair if he wanted to"
1467 - response to pooky about gamma

that he felt the need to respond to both of these questions about his stance is mildly +town for taly given we know pooky was asking something similar

1472 - "I'm not sure what you're getting at but I never said any of that." in response to Taly
1486 - response to Taly I think, of trying to explain himself about the wagon falling apart
1491 - clarification about who 1090 was aimed at

1877 - gamma asks dunn about why he's responded to certain things, dunn gives a fairly neutral answer about not having read the whole game and

i, again, don't really like this that much for gamma. the question feels like a softball and dunn's response doesn't feel threatened

1878 - "How many times this game has it been made clear that there are no town prs?" in response to Galron making a comment about a town PR dying. i don't want to rest too firmly on it but i'm not sure he'd be so quick to cut down a partner's fake dumbtell

1882 - there's an interaction with gamma here, 1881 initiating this. i think "ulyana is one of my only townreads in the game" is +town for ulyana simply because dunn would not feel like he would have the thread position to hard defend a partner. gamma again looks a bit weak from the interaction here, 1883 is obviously underwhelming.

2104 - him "relitigating" his statements about gamma, trying to defend himself over it

2105 - questioning why galron and ydrasse would vote themselves into the event
2217 - piggybacking unwnd calling cakez scum. i think again +town for cakez, probably good for unwnd
2224 - weird clarification about his vote on gamma. maybe the weirdest thing about this is that through all of this i'm not sure dunn has ever called gamma scum?

2226 - this is him explaining his scumread of cakez to me, i included this so you can draw your own conclusions

2232 - reply to skitter's 2230. it's tense. it's edgy. it doesn't

feel

like distancing
2235 - "I'm just preemptively explaining why I wasn't voting cakez at the end of day since unwnd replaced in and was asking about it." +town for unwnd? i feel like him trying to cover his bases here indicates he wants to head off any suspicion

2253 - him responding to me that he does not scumread cakez for falling behind on the game
2262 - him saying we shouldn't try to eliminate gamma again in this event after the first one. he...still doesn't give a read on gamma here
2266 - continued shading of cakez
2271 - when asked who is scum by infinity, says "Probably all the lurkers except for me". i don't really know what to make of this but maybe someone else does

2279 - response to skitter's 2276, saying his vote on gamma was the worst. this is again very defensive. i think the whole interaction is +town for skitter.
2297 - skitter says dunn's defense is awful in 2287 and he tries to defend himself here. this is probably something i circle back to in my reading of skitter but my impression is that she tends not to pressure partners this aggressively
2315 - "Why is me voting Gamma scummy?" in response to skitter's 2303

2433 - this is a detailed defense of ydrasse, in response to the general moment ingame when i was trying to push on her. other people have this as un-aligning, i don't really make much of it at all because it's maybe the only time he made a significant defense of someone?
2444 - again more pseudo-shade on cakez when i make a comment about him being behind
2511/2512 - Response to ulyana about how he doesn't know how to read taly with meta. this is maybe a slight negative for taly.
2750 - "unwnd is an innocent anime girl" - this is going to seem like such a stupid read, but this is a weak non-defense of unwnd while unwnd is getting wagoned, i can only figure it's an attempt to make himself seem "right" about a read while not making any meaningful defense
2754 - taly asks how dunn can read, dunn says he wants to figure things out from this game. no actual read on taly.
2756 - response to ulyana about talking in circles
3134 - naked vote on cakez
3172 - asks cakez why he doesn't try to flip someone that is active and controversial, again i like this for cakez
3218 - reply to unwnd about being voted into the duel, cocky statement about being likely to win, tag-on line at the end about cakez being scum. i think again this is probably +town for unwnd's slot
3233 - "I'm glad we can all bond over how toog is scummy while we vote for me just because we can't vote for cakez for some reason" there's dimensions where i could see a comment like this as scum distancing but it would mean dunn's one significant push for most of the third event was a bus, and i just don't believe that. the "bond over how toog is scummy" i was going to say is +town for toog but i don't actually think that it is on thinking about it, hypothetically if they were teamed
3240/3242/3257 - interaction with cakez is a good look yet again. "How is voting out me different than voting out toog" as a defense doesn't really tell me about toogeloo
3277 - naked vote on toog
3336 - asks toog what their read on him is after both are in the duel. this is a weird moment and i find it a little suspect

[petapan]

so, to everyone who scrolled past that post, here's how i feel dunn's interactions look for others:


+++town for cakez
+town for gammagooey's slot, skitter, and ulyana

very conflicted about gamma but would not base a read solely on that

everyone else almost no interactions/not enough data. which is likely intentional. but most likely scum in the group of people he didn't talk with much

[petapan]

sircakez you silly little man did you bus dunn like you bussed in final fantasy

that game is on my homework list but do you think there are similarities?

[petapan]

oh, i think prism's slot is very slightly +town from that iso, too

[petapan]

the thing i noticed about ffxiv was cakez was shading a shitton of people based on thin reasoning. but i feel as though he moved beyond that here. would need to verify on a reread of him

looking it over, it does not feel like the distancing he did in that game. push on dunn was much more intense than anything he did that game by the looks of it. he also was constantly fishing for alternate wagons to his buddies in that game where here he had to be browbeaten by me into voting toog, the very specific resignation of moving off doesn't feel like scum jumping at avoiding a bus


lmao cakez claimed fucking vanilla cop when he was guiltied, what a meme

[petapan]

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

[petapan]

1. i'm not sure "seeming logical" is a highlight of cakez's scum play
2. i'm not sure he's actually seemed logical lmao

[petapan]

my wack take on cakez isn’t that he bussed dunn (he feels different from ffixv i was being funny)

it was that he saw me getting fired up and getting townread and then mimicked me doing that for townreads

Spoiler:

i actually thought this might have been the case at the time and was part of why i briefly tunneled him

[petapan]

hey ydrasse

who's scum

[petapan]

(you/skitter) 1 here

why can't me and skitter be TvT

[petapan]

if you want me to be honest it’s vibes and a lack of scumreads elsewhere that i feel confident

the back and forth just doesn’t... feel good.

i think saying “kill both of them to resolve tbis pair” is a wack take though even if it’s spicy so i guess i have to be okay killing in my meh tier

i mean i have gotten into a very heated TvT scrap with her twice before, this is very simplistic reasoning

i have concerns there still because it feels like our conversations haven't deepened and she was repeating simplistic talking points but overall her approach to the game has felt town-motivated and going through the dunn iso makes me not want to put her in the PoE

[petapan]

i have no idea who’s playing well as scum this game but stop i’m weary

is it

Spoiler:

you

[petapan]

I get mindfucked so hard everytime someone suggests that they get left behind.

some of it has to be performative atp (not suggesting dwlee is)

[petapan]

this, if anything, seems out of line for scum that'd have a fairly comfortable position in the gamestate. idk

[petapan]

Peta

, if I were you, my next analysis would be of players who had multiple interactions of

Dunn

but you didn't deduce a clear view of their alignment.

That's how I'm approaching mine.

i wasn't sure what order i was going to go in b/c i always want to tackle the simple stuff first, this was easy to bang out while not focusing too deeply at work. but noted, will do

[petapan]

Alright, well, have fun bickering amongst yourselves.

that's what the game is

[petapan]

cakez why do you want to get rid of ulyana

i am probably most confident in you being town right now but i don't really see that read, other than non-interaction with dunn but in my coverage that could apply to a significant number of people so i don't think it's really telling, and there are some signs from his iso that are +town for her

[petapan]

i looked through toogeloo's iso, don't know if doing annotation there would actually be useful

my sense is that they're one of those people that tries to project towniness more as scum and their play here is antithetical to that for the most part. i don't know if not being able to keep pace with the game is a possible influence on that. on a readback it actually sort of bugs me that their pink room reads were off how people were reading them. i liked at least the attempt to break the game at the start of this phase though and the motivation in that felt genuine.

i've been momentarily fooled before by the blasé mafia nihilist act, even though it tilts me i'm biased toward seeing it as town even when i shouldn't. however i think the play here leans significantly closer to their townplay

[petapan]

those pagetop bumps scared the shit out of me

[petapan]

heya my wim and motivation isn't super high rn but if anyone wants to chat i'm around

fwiw i'm actually feeling better about taly this phase - i kinda like how he keeps newly understanding the rules and how that immediately influences how he's approaching the events/who should cross.

who are the scum

[petapan]

harley toog
maybe gypyx

which i'm aware probably doesn't contain everyone but that's where i'm at rn

that's uninspiring but it's not like you're the only one tossing those names around so i can't fault that


i don't even know much i want to get into this, but for a lack of better conversation subjects - why did you believe i "should" have been townreading cakez when i wasn't?