Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[LavarManos]

Hi all. 125 posts per day doesn't seem like too much of a restriction.
I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

VOTE: Meuh
I feel like you're trying to do too much out of the gate? I mean, if you're town, I don't want to discourage you from solving. But it doesn't feel natural to me at least.

[LavarManos]

Also, I'm squinting my eyes at 50. Especially if Datisi gets townier.

[LavarManos]

Tbh I'm just excited to actually be solving after just playing a scum game.

Ok, fair enough... but

I was put off by you immediately talking about which posts pinged you town/scum. And the tone you used really felt a bit odd because your reasoning seemed to consist of short, vague bursts of words. For example, "hints at actual scum hunting", "pretty solid vibes", ...
Those phrases had the effect of feeling not-genuine to me.

[LavarManos]

Why are you squinting your eyes at 50? It was a really good post, you just agree with the terrible 2 votes? Like, seriously, what do you think of Val and Tako.

Meh, I don't agree that it was a good post. I don't see why early bandwagon votes are that bad, but I do think it still is generally thought of as "scummy". So I thought Dunnstral was taking advantage of that to wk Datisi.
For Val, nulltown maybe? Tako genuinely could be scum though. I can agree that the content is not great there.

[LavarManos]

Lukewarm you seem pretty gung-ho about this and it's at least a better wagon than Dats imo

You were voting Mueh before this... and why were you even voting her?
This is really weird.

[LavarManos]

Ok, I'm not gonna make a new post for every quote I want to respond to.

i feel like im probably still townreading here but. paranoia noted.

I felt this too. +town to fire.

Their abrupt push feels wrong, but given history, it’s probably just eh.

wdym by this?

Which obviously has a chance to be skewed, but I'm ok with it for what it produced.

Doubt

Apologises to those who dislike wall posts, but I not sure of the alternative here.

Can u summarize your points at the end?

[LavarManos]

why is her vote different than any of the others?

Her intention was clear and she followed up on it after voting

if i get bored reading your posts, i'll see that as a red flag because i don't easily get bored playing mafia.

ngl this seems like a lazy reason to scumread someone

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

This scumpings a little. I'm just gonna put it here. I don't wanna get tunnel-vision either.

What are your current reads looking like?

Town: Kovu, fire, fey
Scum: Mueh, tako
Confused: Bell
For your second question, I thought it unnatural to immediately jump in to a game quoting posts and stuff. Also, the reasons she was using were also very buzzword-y tbh. Third, yes pretty much it was that dunn could have been taking advantage to defend a town datisi. Just a theory.

VPB looks good too. Also, I noticed I haven't really read any posts regarding marcistar.

[LavarManos]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

Why did this suddenly occur to you?
I find this a bit townie because it seems so out of the blue (not rlly bc meuh), but still why

[LavarManos]

Very hard to see town not responding to an accusation by someone they're supposedly town reading.

I don't think I avoided much though?
Just why I thought Val was nulltown. Well that was mostly just because I thought scum doesn't make that sort of post (generic answer I know), but now I think it's possible. No read on Val.

[LavarManos]

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
sorta sus that nobody has voted this slot yet

[LavarManos]

That's one reason I unvoted you then

[LavarManos]

Yeah, there's a couple of unreadable slots right now. I suppose the vig mechanic could be used to sort them, but I don't trust that entirely. For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.
I unvoted you mostly because I thought takotsubo needed to be voted. But yeah. I did look at your posts and they seem good. The part about you voting for takotsubo contributing to my unvote of you was mostly a joke lol.

[LavarManos]

Okay this post is pretty good!

How though?
328 is bare minimum post imo.
BTW, thought Gamma was town earlier for moving vote around so much. More people have been doing that recently though... That's confusing.

[LavarManos]

I originally targeted Lavar just as the game started before they even posted

Gee thanks. I thkn ur town though.

[LavarManos]

Although, I don't think that Meuh and Gammagooey are ever partnered

I'm curious why you think Gamma could be scum.
I could see Meuh as scum tho.

[LavarManos]

VPB, why is marci scummy?

[LavarManos]

I’m not against a gamma vote, if only because they just naked voted Marci while caution preaching.

Good observation

pedit: Ok, I'll take a look.

[LavarManos]

Ye, I now understand the marci post hoc thing and it does look sorta sus. Would like to know the reasons others are townreading or at least nullreading her.
Reread tako. Ig I'm not hellbent on taking him out now. I'm still going to keep my vote there.

[LavarManos]

Their reads have subtlety and uncertainty that she lacked when we were scum together in KTANE.

Ok, I skimmed her ISO in that game and I agree that it is extremely one dimensional (and different from tako's early posts). Maybe I'm tunneling, so I'll unvote for now.
Do you think it's possible being on an alt could account for the difference in tone?
UNVOTE:

[LavarManos]

As always I will ask for any things
That people think that I should focus on.

You never asked though?
How do you read Datisi?

[LavarManos]

I find it weird that Val didn't reelly respond to anything Lukewarm said about him
VOTE: Val

[LavarManos]

none of that was weird? just ignoring someone is??

That stuff is weird too ok. I feel some of what Datisi is feeling regarding Val, but I agree more with gorilla that the stubborn mentality really isn't that hard to fake.

This is the second time you've changed your opinion on something right after I posted. Why are you sheeping me?

Not really though. I never had a read on marci and I specifically mentioned it. Yes, I agreed with you that marci was suspicious for the post hoc stuff, but I also asked why others might be townreading her. I still wasn't entirely sure what my read on her would be.
About mala. Well, you brought up a game where she was scum in, I read through the posts myself, and I observed that her posts were different. I don't really see anything wrong with that even if I got to the same conclusion you did.

[LavarManos]

I don't know about you, but that looks very much like Lukewarm is telling us he has a problem with the datisi wagon being scummy....without sticking his neckout to defend datisi.

Couldn't this just be a normal town reaction though? A quickly forming wagon is suspicious. In the early game, it can be hard to make a call on the alignment of the person being wagoned, but you can still call out the wagon at least.
I think Datisi could actually be scum, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't scum voting him.

[LavarManos]

She is here, and posting - but she is not championing me as the scummiest person in the thread lol

Nah I disagree. Feels like she has been attacking Datisi and VPB a lot. You aren't even calling her scum anymore. I scumread her recent posting style too.
VOTE: Marci

[LavarManos]

idts

[LavarManos]

Ok, I agree she does feel relaxed this game. I think meta can change though because her last scum game seems to have been a long time ago.
I don't scumread her for that stuff (the things you mentioned in 784). I noticed that some of her recent posts have been shading Datisi and VPB who have been scumreading her. I'm also a little confused why she scumreads you in 708. Feels a bit random ... in the scummy way.

[LavarManos]

I have eight votes right now.
gorilla, I don’t really get why you think my votes are scummy. Also, gutread Datisi’s hesitance as scum. Could be scum trying to reluctantly placed vote on me depending on VPB response. So I do like VPB for how he responded.

[LavarManos]

My tinfoil is that Datisi and Marci are partners. Marci tried to bus Datisi early and could not justify it.

[LavarManos]

I'm baffled that nobody seems to think how fast the votes accumulated on me as suspicious. Additionally, there is no effort from anybody voting me to actually explain why I am scum. The confusing thing is that I think this wagon has been driven by town. I don't really get it lol

[LavarManos]

It is very annoying that people disappear when wagons build on them. Yes

Didn't I post a few hours ago just as the wagon had formed?
For fire,
1. In the early game, I am trying to accumulate information. Honestly, throughout the whole game tbh. I like to play from the side.
2. Yes, I try to be polite. That's just my style. I get why you think scum might act like that to get townread though, but you can meta me if u want. About Meuh, I wasn't buddying her. I just make a joke lol.
3. It's true I have not really interacted with anybody that has suspected me. That is because nobody really gave any good reasons, so I didn't see the point. Only when I get voted so much is there a point.
4. My vote on Val might have looked sus because it's a one liner. But wouldn't you agree that it's weird for someone to almost completely ignore a case on them? And I disagree with you calling my marci vote opportunistic. When I voted marci, I quoted a Luke post that said she was town.

[LavarManos]

Do you think the later votes are particularly scummy? The votes with little to no explanation? What really makes it suspicious?

It formed very quickly. Now there is resistance which is more normal I suppose. All the later votes are bad ngl. Everyone's reasoning there is "marci good so lavar bad"

[LavarManos]

Sorry, I must have missed this.

what about shading datisi and vp makes you think she is more likely to be scum? and what makes you say that the luke read feels random? what's your read on luke?

It was a counterpoint to Lukewarm saying that marci wasn't doing her typical scum behavior of omgusing her attackers. She was doing stuff like calling Datisi "devil" or something lol. The luke read seemed sort of unprompted and the reasoning felt lazy.
I think luke has good takes, but I can't fully trust him yet. He attacked marci right off the bat which seemed a bit unnatural. Whenever he makes a case on someone, I'll need to be careful about it. He is townlean for me.

[LavarManos]

i dont remember having a grrr moment about him until recently wtf
2. what about the "recent posting style" is scummy wtf

Yeah, just your recent posts lol. The posts you made from 27-39 in your iso all felt like random stuff.
I will read your iso and see if it connects. I will reevaluating you right now.

[LavarManos]

I'm reversing my read on marci. Everyone wanting to wagon for the sake of having dueling wagons should explain why?
VOTE: Datisi as a placeholder

[LavarManos]

The notion of "forcing someone to participate" when we're a day from deadline is strange.

Not really? Scum are most vulnerable at the end of day.

[LavarManos]

The info we get from it, the people behind the push and the nature of it being a flashwagon all point to it being a better wagon than Dwlee.

I don't think so. How are any of the factors you mentioned different between my wagon and the dwlee wagon?

[LavarManos]

I'm really satisfied with a lavar flip. The dip after pressure is characteristic of caught scum

Uh, what dip after pressure?
Normally, I would townread a lurker like Dwlee for posting any content near the end of day, but this post just isn't right lol

[LavarManos]

Lava what is your read on dwlee?

Their posts have declined in quality over time. I think Dwlee would be more apologetic as scum wrt activity and reading others based off of it. I'll keep my vote on Datisi for now.

@gorilla What was you point?
@Kovu I have played for two years on and off

[LavarManos]

fire replied around 10 minutes later. I was just gone.
@gorillla I think this is my first game with Luke.

[LavarManos]

idk he is my biggest scumread right now and I don't really want to vote Dwlee yet
@Dwlee that's just wrong. I replied later that night

[LavarManos]

VT
Don’t really have time right now. Sorry guys.

[LavarManos]

wp fire
congrats scum