LOST (Game Over)

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: csf for not providing a reason in their RVS vote

I have 1 serious town read and 1 serious scum read and I'm going to keep quiet on them for a little while.

[Frogsterking]

Dunnstral is Town

[Frogsterking]

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

[Frogsterking]

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

I was confused by this then realized Dancing Puppets hadn't posted yet.

~GE

What's suspect about ircher/rh9? I'm more interested in your thoughts there vs. on us because they have the post restriction

~GE

To clarify, both the hydras who have been posting are the ones I've started suspecting. I wasn't counting Dancing Puppets.

I didn't realize ircher/rh9 had a post restriction. I thought they seemed like they are holding info back and spreading their game posts out between here and another thread.

[Frogsterking]

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

why

I think you've asked a number of go-nowhere questions for the sake of appearing active.

[Frogsterking]

ok and?

Defensive/evasive

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

I was confused by this then realized Dancing Puppets hadn't posted yet.

~GE

What's suspect about ircher/rh9? I'm more interested in your thoughts there vs. on us because they have the post restriction

~GE

To clarify, both the hydras who have been posting are the ones I've started suspecting. I wasn't counting Dancing Puppets.

I didn't realize ircher/rh9 had a post restriction. I thought they seemed like they are holding info back and spreading their game posts out between here and another thread.

they claimed their post restriction in their first post
they can only use 100 words maximum for D1

~GE

I can argue that this is showing a higher awareness of the gamestate which can be viewed as cautious/scummy.

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

why

I think you've asked a number of go-nowhere questions for the sake of appearing active.

idk about marci but I tend to ask seemingly filler question in certain circumstances, like when trying to filter out paranoid thoughts on TRs
I think I've only ever done it a whole bunch as town because as scum I feel like my filter would catch some of it + there's less need to legitimately sort so less need to ask questions that might go nowhere

~GE

I can argue that this is an overreaction and not consistent with the scum!gamma games I've played in the past.

VOTE: Off the Hook

[Frogsterking]

I can argue that this is showing a higher awareness of the gamestate which can be viewed as cautious/scummy.

Wait, so having a strong understanding of what's happened so far in the game is SCUMMY to you? lol

Is this a common belief?

I'm waiting to hear more from you about your own reads, Rad.

@Frogster have I not seemed defensive?

I can check

[Frogsterking]

@Frogster have I not seemed defensive?

I can check

Lmao, I don't think you appear even remotely defensive.

[Frogsterking]

I'm tempted to townread pooky because their persona seems different from D1 in the large theme KTANE game

[Frogsterking]

I'm tempted to townread pooky because their persona seems different from D1 in the large theme KTANE game

Bad frog.

Lmao it's dif though he's spamming up the thread here, he was a little more careful D1 in that other game than he's being here.

I have a town pile forming:

Pooky
Penguin
Dunnstral
The toad ( my townread from my first post)

Scum pile:

Rad (scumread from my first post)
Off the Hook

PEdit:

I'm rescinding my scumread on Rad based on their post just now explaining their reads.

[Frogsterking]

[quote="In post 338

what happened to the madman who believed in changelings and who the fuck is typing away at the keyboard right now.[/quote]

He's still here, brewing beneath the surface.

[Frogsterking]

Hey @Frogster take a quick glance at Luke's ISO and tell me if you see the same lack of content. I ask you specifically because of your 270 which makes me believe you've got an eye for that sort of thing.

I don't like Luke's iso, there is a low signal to noise ratio and their posts look like filler to keep up with the higher activity townie slots.

There are a couple other reasons I don't trust Luke. I think 319 and 322 are potential shade, and I think Luke is playing this game differently than they did D1 in the large theme game I played with them before, and their slot flipped town in that game.

One reason I may hold off on scum reading Luke is that there was a convincing push against them early D1 in my last Large Theme game, lead by Town, so I'm weary that Luke may have a tendency to be lim bait in Large games.

[Frogsterking]

I actually believe now that Luke v Rad is TvT, and I think Pooky being paranoid about me is more likely to come from Town

[Frogsterking]

I'm tempted to townread Johnny here.

[Frogsterking]

But I was worried that it was a personality quirk that I was misreading as alignment. So I spot checked the only meta that I have avaliable to see if that was the case.

The logical voice inside your head vs what you want to convince yourself to believe IMO

[Frogsterking]

So do y'all like take physical notes for these larges? I have never completed one

Can someone explain Klick to me.
I can't read whatever they're doing.

Can you be more specific?

[Frogsterking]

I'm very confident that this is scum!Malcolm.

VOTE: Malcolm

[Frogsterking]

I'm very confident that this is scum!Malcolm.

VOTE: Malcolm

What's making you think that? And how are you 'very confident' someone is scum a day into the game?

I think your read on me looks manufactured and I think calling luke v rad and dunnstral town are pretty safe takes.

You seem different from previous games I've played with you where you were town.

I guess I should be weary that you have a tendency to be limbait and we could be TvT.

[Frogsterking]

Pooky
Penguin
Dunnstral
The toad
Luke
Rad
Tbone
CSF
Klick

I think are all Town.

I'm skeptical of Malcolm, Off the Hook and Bellaphant so far.

[Frogsterking]

Hiya, I'm low access at the moment, but If you could chuck a couple of questions/thoughts at me, that'd be great: as I said, I'm struggling to get a firm read in you too.

What are you struggling with specifically?

Can you post your reads so far?

[Frogsterking]

I'm very confident that this is scum!Malcolm.

VOTE: Malcolm

What's making you think that? And how are you 'very confident' someone is scum a day into the game?

I think your read on me looks manufactured and I think calling luke v rad and dunnstral town are pretty safe takes.

You seem different from previous games I've played with you where you were town.

I guess I should be weary that you have a tendency to be limbait and we could be TvT.

My read is perfectly natural, I think there's a decent chance you could be scum and I outlined why.

There's nothing wrong with a "safe" take if it's what I believe - as town I've looked at the exchanges between both and I don't think either of them look like scum right now.

IDK, I have a hard time buying what you're putting out right now. Why have you not responded to Bell or Enchant?

[Frogsterking]

474 is making me lean towards Malcolm and I being TvT. I'll just swallow my pride now and get it over with.

UNVOTE: Malcolm

I see a similar situation coming with Off the Hook, who CSF is townsending, so I'm sticking my vote here:

VOTE: Bellaphant

Johnny is next in line if they fail to elaborate their naked vote on me.

[Frogsterking]

I also didn't really care for Bella's recent postings.

She can be on the list of people that I am willing to vote today.

Do you have any problems with my Town list in 466, Luke?

[Frogsterking]

Cult Recruitment Drive 1.0:

Pengy
Dunnstral
Malcolm
Bell
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
Toogeloo


If you're on the above list, congrats you received a Townread of DUBIOUS accuracy and I will be recruiting you into my awesome cult for at least today.

How reliable are your Bell townreads in particular? I don't trust myself enough to place them one way or the other; I don't know what their scum game entails.

PEdit:

Thank you for responding, Luke.

I think Toogle, Bell, Malcolm and Off the Hook are being townread enough by my own townreads to take them off my PoE.

I have played scum with scum!Mala and town with scum!Mala and I admit their start seems a little different in this game.

[Frogsterking]

You really can't let your guard down around him and it deeply concerning that a streak of town games from Bell has all but blinded many to the danger that is scum Bell. Like a shark attack that is feared but only very rarely happens, but once the scum Bell jaws close around you it's too late.

I was wondering if this was the case.

Is there anyone here that you trust yet, Dunn?

[Frogsterking]

Enchant, Ceph, Johnny, BlueBlooded, Bella, C&G, Galron, Dwlee, Corwin, Roden, DancingPuppets

are where I'm most expecting to get a successful D1 hit, based on PoE combined from myself and the players I (relatively) trust.

Right now I'm most interested in any takes which can help narrow down that pool of 11, including elaboration from those players themselves.

PEdit:

If Rh9 rolled scum and they love to talk then they can talk in the scum PT.

[Frogsterking]

I want to add that in addition to the C&G slot, DancingPuppets and Bellaphant also have made excuses for lying low.

[Frogsterking]

474 is making me lean towards Malcolm and I being TvT. I'll just swallow my pride now and get it over with.

UNVOTE: Malcolm

I see a similar situation coming with Off the Hook, who CSF is townsending, so I'm sticking my vote here:

VOTE: Bellaphant

Johnny is next in line if they fail to elaborate their naked vote on me.

I do like that you're willing to explore new ideas but do find your read on me changing to be a big leap from where you were "confident" I was scum after just a handful of posts.

I'm reading your stubbornness as unhelpful and more likely to come from town than scum.

[Frogsterking]

474 is making me lean towards Malcolm and I being TvT. I'll just swallow my pride now and get it over with.

UNVOTE: Malcolm

I see a similar situation coming with Off the Hook, who CSF is townsending, so I'm sticking my vote here:

VOTE: Bellaphant

Johnny is next in line if they fail to elaborate their naked vote on me.

I do like that you're willing to explore new ideas but do find your read on me changing to be a big leap from where you were "confident" I was scum after just a handful of posts.

I'm reading your stubbornness as unhelpful and more likely to come from town than scum.

And yes, it was foolish/impatient/impulsive of me to say that I was confident you were scum so early, only to change my mind a few posts later.

[Frogsterking]

Did you just pull all lurkers in list.

That's a correlation != causation. It's players who aren't getting townread by myself or my townreads. I'm hoping a few of those players will say more and get ruled out.

[Frogsterking]

Did you just pull all lurkers in list.

That's a correlation != causation. It's players who aren't getting townread by myself or my townreads. I'm hoping a few of those players will say more and get ruled out.

Who values a townread from scum?

This is a strawman, I'm valuing townreads from the players I read as town.

[Frogsterking]

Did you just pull all lurkers in list.

That's a correlation != causation. It's players who aren't getting townread by myself or my townreads. I'm hoping a few of those players will say more and get ruled out.

Who values a townread from scum?

This is a strawman, I'm valuing townreads from the players I read as town.

Forgive me, but a townread from you is not on my checklist for today.

Okay, what's your point though? You're the one who felt a need to bring it up.

[Frogsterking]

I'm reading my interaction with Galron as SvT.

[Frogsterking]

This is funny to me, because this is the least serious I have taken a game in a while.

Meh, I was being non-serious at the start of moderators as well.

But my point stands.

I was have purposefully tried to take this game less seriously, and this is the second time someone said that I was being extra serious early

Do you think it's more likely to come from mistaken town or scum trying to stir up trouble (or other?)

[Frogsterking]

@CSF Intuition which I recognized around 341 but likely had more to do with your start. I decided to trust my read more on you once Klick said they gut read you as Town.

[Frogsterking]

I feel like there could be one scum in Galron/Frog from their argument.

While I don't agree with T-Bone's view re the faked restriction, I think he's town for suggesting it. Seems like a theory unlikely to come from scum.

I don’t really see it. It just looks like Frogster pissed them off. And they responded how they responded.

Explain what I did to piss them off then?

[Frogsterking]

That would be Galron’s responsibility, not mine, silly.

I don't think I did anything to piss off Galron, because I don't think Galron has a false sense of entitlement. I think if they appeared pissed off then they are likely acting.

One of my improv teachers explained to us one day: "remember in improv we have four emotions: mad, sad, glad and afra'ad!"

[Frogsterking]

Bella feels town, maybe Frogster too

Still struggling for strong scumreads

---

I lowkey also thought last night that C+G might've been faking their posting restriction but as an excuse to not engage with the thread

Can you elaborate on Bella feeling town?

[Frogsterking]

That would be Galron’s responsibility, not mine, silly.

I don't think I did anything to piss off Galron, because I don't think Galron has a false sense of entitlement. I think if they appeared pissed off then they are likely acting.

One of my improv teachers explained to us one day: "remember in improv we have four emotions: mad, sad, glad and afra'ad!"

Haha. I must be super depressed today because I didn’t laugh at this.
Uh, probably a failure of imagination, they might not even admit to it or I could be totally wrong. Since explaining your own morality can be awkward. Best just to hide it and pretend it’s something else.

Bell what are on earth are you trying to communicate here? Please for the love of God rewrite 539.

@frogstar, more reads! I can't get my head around the g.e hydra, I don't town read pp, ceph can be day one town, I've read some Malcolm games and they seemed quite lim baity, often for tone, enchant is probably town.

Happy to answer any questions!

Do you have anything for me CSF? You were a weird null for me

Can you elaborate on the Ceph and the Enchant town reads?

[Frogsterking]

I’ve made posts like Galron’s as town. It’s trying to take away your sense of efficacy because you did something they didn’t approve of.
Also, frog, if you don’t think you have sharp edges I have a bridge to sell you.

Even if you softened your edges, you’d still cut people. People don’t change easily.

In b4 Galron denies all of this and I get embarrassed and misinterpreted them entirely.

Okay I see how town!Galron can be motivated to make those posts. I think the interaction is still a scum tell from Galron because I've seen scum choose to take that approach more often than random chance would indicate, especially from lurker scum slots.

[Frogsterking]

Leaning. It's the most suspicious thing I've seen in the first 24 hours. To be clear, the fact that I think they could be faking. The restriction could be real and that's not alignment indicative.

Can't we force a test of it by seeing if they are forced to speak again after using up all 100 words?

[Frogsterking]

We can force them to post the rest of their 100 words under threat of being wagoned and then watch whether their slot is required to post again on D1?

[Frogsterking]

We can force them to post the rest of their 100 words under threat of being wagoned and then watch whether their slot is required to post again on D1?

I also don't want to cause that's not a fun thing to do. If the restriction is actually real then we'd just be dicks about it and that would make an unfun restriction even more unfun. The obligation is on them to not hide behind the post restriction at this point. We don't have any obligation to do anything about them at this stage.

I think both ways of handling it are viable options, I think the best argument you put forth is that we don't have any obligation to do anything about them at this stage, and the obligation is currently on them to contribute the best they can and not hide behind the post restriction.

[Frogsterking]

"In chess, the pawns go first"

-Magneto

[Frogsterking]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

[Frogsterking]

There is a marked tone difference, but i can think of one reason to explain that. But he can answer for himself

I think I'm physically and cognitively healthier now than when I played KTANE, and that's pretty much the only difference as far as I'm aware. I think Pooky's push is motivated purely by paranoia.

[Frogsterking]

~N you think that Galron and I are just clashing?

[Frogsterking]

@Puppets

~N you think that Galron and I are just clashing?

[Frogsterking]

~N you think that Galron and I are just clashing?

Idk yet what to think. I will probably need to reread everything because my eyes started to glaze over after reading about 10 pgs.

I’ve never played with you or scum!Galron, so I don’t know yet how to read it.

Titus wanted to vote Dunn and I told her if he’s doing anything, he’s probably town.

Rn, just looking to sheep someone I really tr with > than rand good takes. If Pooky’s town here, his record is pretty impressive but not rushing that read yet.

~N

I didn't realize Pooky is a good town player, they're pushing my mislim pretty hard and I believe they're town here.

I played D1 with scum!pooky in a large theme recently and I think they're noticeably less image-conscious in this game.

[Frogsterking]

Dunn do you have a read on Bellaphant?

[Frogsterking]

There is a marked tone difference, but i can think of one reason to explain that. But he can answer for himself

I think I'm physically and cognitively healthier now than when I played KTANE, and that's pretty much the only difference as far as I'm aware. I think Pooky's push is motivated purely by paranoia.

okay that's not the answer I expected - I thought you were going to say you ate a huge helping of humble pie after that game or something lol

Oh yeah old ego rip. I guess my ego is different now.

[Frogsterking]

um frogster!town in ktane was so inflexible with his reads he literally blew up a claimed innocent child and then claimed afterwards that the dead IC was a changeling

There is a marked tone difference, but i can think of one reason to explain that. But he can answer for himself

I think I'm physically and cognitively healthier now than when I played KTANE, and that's pretty much the only difference as far as I'm aware. I think Pooky's push is motivated purely by paranoia.

okay that's not the answer I expected - I thought you were going to say you ate a huge helping of humble pie after that game or something lol

Oh yeah old ego rip. I guess my ego is different now.

Oh I get it now:

It's

character

, pooky. I developed

humility

after my mishaps in KTANE.

[Frogsterking]

bruh after catboi flipped as an IC your response was to swear he was a

changeling

and the mod was trolling us with a bastard game...

I absolutely do not believe you somehow developed humility rofl

Hahahaha

Read it and weep, and find a real scum read

[Frogsterking]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

[Frogsterking]

That's pretty ominous, is something about to happen?

[Frogsterking]

Is this Titus posting now?

[Frogsterking]

My scum read on Rad is softening.

Still okay with my frog vote, also would be down for a galron vote atm

Yaay Luke coming around.

Why are you reading Galron scum Luke? I find him to be unreadable atm.

Especially since Luke is currently voting me

with

Galron, it's a pretty silly position to take, unless they think Galron is bussing me, which is also silly.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: BBT

Dun dun dunnn

[Frogsterking]

ok there's absolutely no way I believe Frogster is town

His posts look like he copypasted them from somewhere else

I agree frogster is scum

VOTE: frog

Deeeeeep brah

Deep read ceph

Brah the elaboration like whoah

[Frogsterking]

ok there's absolutely no way I believe Frogster is town

His posts look like he copypasted them from somewhere else

I agree frogster is scum

VOTE: frog

Deeeeeep brah

Deep read ceph

Brah the elaboration like whoah

thanks i know the layers can be a lot for some folks to process all at once

VOTE: Cephrir

Don't ask, just read the iso. Scum filler slot.

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually coming around on town!Corwin myself.

[Frogsterking]

Willing to Feed to Polar Bears:

Cephrir
JohnnyFarrar
Corwinoid
BlueBloodedToffee
Galron
Frogsterking

Gogo team Buss-the-Frog!! You can do it! Bus that frog!

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually coming around on town!Corwin myself.

??? why?

I feel like every time I start to feel good about you being town, you go and post something random like this

I'm thinking about it quantitatively. In 26 people it makes sense you've got one player who just legitimately can't post and is telling the truth. What he's saying and what he's putting out are very consistent with each other.

There are players who are actually scummy in this game and are not consistent with what they present themselves to be.

Try taking a look through Ceph's iso and then take a look through Corwin's iso. Tell me then seriously you don't understand why I think Corwin is starting to look pretty trustworthy.

[Frogsterking]

Willing to Feed to Polar Bears:

Cephrir
JohnnyFarrar
Corwinoid
BlueBloodedToffee
Galron
Frogsterking

Gogo team Buss-the-Frog!! You can do it! Bus that frog!

Of that Pooky list, don’t understand what Johnny’s done so far that’s ai? Corwin, already commented on. Like to see more from Galron. Don’t currently sr Frog, so that leaves Cephir and BBT.

Johnny's sketch, they've never elaborated on a single read, including their vote which has been parked on me all day, and haven't done anything to indicate any desire to solve the game.

[Frogsterking]

I'm actually coming around on town!Corwin myself.

??? why?

I feel like every time I start to feel good about you being town, you go and post something random like this

I'm thinking about it quantitatively. In 26 people it makes sense you've got one player who just legitimately can't post and is telling the truth. What he's saying and what he's putting out are very consistent with each other.

There are players who are actually scummy in this game and are not consistent with what they present themselves to be.

Try taking a look through Ceph's iso and then take a look through Corwin's iso. Tell me then seriously you don't understand why I think Corwin is starting to look pretty trustworthy.

I've looked at Corwin's ISO - it's 3 posts long - two of them are just early game banter, the third is the "I'm reading up" post.

He may be truth telling about not being able to post because of IRL but still be scum.

I don't mind a Cephrir wagon, but it's not either or.

I know right, and there are more town slots than scum slots right? So the slot is more likely to be town than scum first of all.

Second of all, I don't think scum are going to feel comfortable in that low PoE spot, I think they're going to put more effort into the image of the slot or they're going to leave the game. I don't think Corwin has been given enough time to determine whether they have left yet.

That's just my take, I agree with what you're saying Corwin could be scum who had something come up. My point is that at this point in time the slot is more likely to flip town than it is to flip scum, and I'm treating it as such.

[Frogsterking]

That's just my take, I agree with what you're saying Corwin could be scum who had something come up. My point is that at this point in time the slot is more likely to flip town than it is to flip scum, and I'm treating it as such.

And the implication of this to me is that there may be quite a few scum left to find aside from Ceph and Johnny.

[Frogsterking]

I think Galron is more likely town than not from his ISO.

I'm starting to come around on town!galron. We have tunneled each other before as town.

[Frogsterking]

Johnny's sketch, they've never elaborated on a single read, including their vote which has been parked on me all day, and haven't done anything to indicate any desire to solve the game.

Lol this is way over thinking it. I just checked. Johnny's just not even playing the game. He's just being hilarious. Absolutely no effort whatsoever and I love it.

I was wondering about that because I thought some of their comments seemed uninformed.

[Frogsterking]

There's a difference between who I'm willing to vote versus who I want to vote right now.
I'm willing to vote anyone but me if the argument or the circumstances are good enough.
I want to vote those people.

Why Corwin over others? Yeah Lurkers suck but Corwin claimed a VLA, and he doesn't have a history of just lurking. I don't think scum!Corwin just lurks here and tries to get away with it with some bs claim. I think his claim is legit and he'll catch up when he can, regardless of alignment.

This is what I was picturing here with the Corwin slot

[Frogsterking]

There's a difference between who I'm willing to vote versus who I want to vote right now.
I'm willing to vote anyone but me if the argument or the circumstances are good enough.
I want to vote those people.

Why Corwin over others? Yeah Lurkers suck but Corwin claimed a VLA, and he doesn't have a history of just lurking. I don't think scum!Corwin just lurks here and tries to get away with it with some bs claim. I think his claim is legit and he'll catch up when he can, regardless of alignment.

This is what I was picturing here with the Corwin slot

Yeah but my conclusion is Null and yours is Town, which is super strange IMO. But you're open about it, so I dunno...

Maybe I'm a strange player?

[Frogsterking]

it's wild how much folks are reading into players, including me, who haven't even started playing yet

Is this when you start pocketing people and faking town tells

[Frogsterking]

You're doing a good job ceph, establishing commonality with pooky at the end of 922 is a great diplomatic angle, as pooky is the most active poster, and framing the game as having "not even started yet" in 924 and 927 is a great way to try and rewind the clock for you before you set up your fake town tells.

[Frogsterking]

For the record I like a frog vote. Dude seems shady. Lemme look at a plist and I'll give you the ones who should live to d2

Also Corwin talked a bit about his problems elsewhere, they're real and we should give him space.

Your read on me is bad Johnny but at least we seem to agree on our town reads.

[Frogsterking]

It is not something that is fundamentally bad to be voted out in a game of mafia.

It's an honor really.

You need to do something right to get 14 players to agree on you.

[Frogsterking]

Frogger seems to be... fake? Like sometimes they'll post something and I'll think to myself "there's no way they actually believe this"

Johnny can you try again and see if you can be more vague and non-descriptive

[Frogsterking]

Stand BACK while I post my ROCK SOLID D1 case on Frogger everybody. It'll have quotes and everything

Cool

[Frogsterking]

I find it unlikely that frogster isn't themselves this game.

But I am deeply unhappy of how many posts I've made and deleted that are some form of "stop shit posting, only I can do that" I do think their granade style is still here and they haven't changed much, I'm glad they're (I hope they're) in a better place emotionally rn.

That's nice! What is grenade style?

[Frogsterking]

You forgot? It's pretty much where every post you make seems to be incendiary. For example, hearing someone give an SR on a player and immediately announcing that you think they're town. Creates the beginning of a conflict.
Mostly, with all the shrapnel going all over the place it's hard to tell what's real. Well, not that it isn't already hard.

Ugh that's hard to change but I'll see if I can change it because it sounds annoying.

[Frogsterking]

froggy why did you change your posting style midgame here

Meds wore off

[Frogsterking]

I'm ngl it would be the most lit timeline if we yeet Frogster today and he flips town and then tommorrow I get to pretend like he's a changeling.

Unfortunately he probably does not flip town here.

Okay so normally I would say

Spoiler:

that sounds really boring

but in an effort to be less incendiary:

Sure Pooky, as long as you mislim me here D1 and you don't make the same mistake again next time.

i cant tell if that's a joke or not

Nope, you asked and I answered. Posting style changes = meds wore off = probably an increase of "grenade style" posting like Bell was describing, among other things.

[Frogsterking]

984 that's some great research CSF, I'm glad you came to the correct conclusion about my alignment in this game. What you said sounds about right as far as I know, I mostly make it up as I go along.

[Frogsterking]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

What makes you think it's a meme or RVS vote?

The image in the spoiler tags, it's the first thing in your iso, and there isn't a description or explanation of what you saw or felt.

[Frogsterking]

Hey, sorry, I started feeling sick so I'm not going to be posting all that much til I feel better

UNVOTE:

It's cool

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Frog

That's one naked vote too many.

VOTE: BBT

I imagine my wagon looks like a convenient place to park a vote right now and BBT is pretty, you know, not present in the game.

[Frogsterking]

Fuck, sorry Bell

Taly, what made you think Bell had claimed?

[Frogsterking]

If T-Bone has an alt I've played with before I have a guess as to who it is.

@Taly

I want to know why you thought Bell had outted.

PEdit:

Okay, fair enough

[Frogsterking]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

What makes you think it's a meme or RVS vote?

The image in the spoiler tags, it's the first thing in your iso, and there isn't a description or explanation of what you saw or felt.

@Roden

[Frogsterking]

I think I need to see a reads list or something from Toad.

PEdit:

Titus is probably scum, Titus hasn't had any trouble reading my slot as town in the past, and if I'm correct about my townreads on my wagon, my wagon is a very attractive place for scum to park a vote right now.

[Frogsterking]

I was under the impression Titus typically declined to heavily VCA D1.

Yes and in the KTANE game she read my slot as town D1 based on dayplay without VCA. I don't think she's ever FoSed my slot in any game we've played in before based on VCA or dayplay. It seems a little convenient she would FoS it now based on a skim when I'm the leading counterwagon to BBT.

[Frogsterking]

Gotta present in 40 min and I'm dissociated! Yay!

Good luck! You can do it!

[Frogsterking]

and if I'm correct about my townreads on my wagon

who are those again?

I think Johnny, Galron, Luke, and maybe now Enchant are all Town. Pooky also, in spirit. Each of the other three slots on my wagon I think have a high chance to be vote parking scum.

[Frogsterking]

I think I need to see a reads list or something from Toad.

PEdit:

Titus is probably scum, Titus hasn't had any trouble reading my slot as town in the past, and if I'm correct about my townreads on my wagon, my wagon is a very attractive place for scum to park a vote right now.

I haven't read the thread. You have many different counters, which makes you an attractive flip for VCA and I wanted to get the game going with votes. You would know that if I am behind, I look at votes. The fact you jump to a) an omgus and b) an assumption that I read that's directly contradictory to my statement is very odd.

Nah you're informed, this looks like the scum game you played with me in that Large Normal.

[Frogsterking]

I opened up my phone planning to move my vote to Galron, but Frogs recent posts changed my mind for now.

That is all

REBT

[Frogsterking]

Frogs, why is BBT likelier scum than Titus?

Luke, why did you consider Galron?

Among BBT or Dancing Puppets I'm not sure which is more likely to be a scum slot. I think the BBT slot is objectively scummy by looking at the iso, and the Dancing Puppets slot is just pinging me hard based on my own subjective experiences. Unless BBT starts posting more, there's a higher chance I'll turn around on my Dancing Puppets read, as I've done with Malcolm and Galron already. I think there's a slightly lower chance I turn around on the Dancing Puppets slot because my PoE is getting tighter.

[Frogsterking]

I'm still catching up today, on page 31. Can someone link to the KTANE game everyone keeps talking about?

I have my own reasons for not liking Frog's slot for where I'm at in the game.

984

[Frogsterking]

I think I need to see a reads list or something from Toad.

Hi - there are 26 players and I'm not doing a reads list

You will get something from Toad though

I understand, just like what you have so far

[Frogsterking]

Does Toad have a pretty tight scum game?

[Frogsterking]

Hmm

[Frogsterking]

Johnny, you had an earlier town read on Luke, do you still feel that way and why?

Yeah, they haven't done anything to disturb that halo on their head. You think I missed something?

Not necessarily. My notes are "Dislike Frog and Luke, feels like ~350ish is s/s [\n] JF TR Luke?" so I've just been meaning to ask about it. Something wasn't rubbing right around then, but I suspect a lot of you have a better feel for him as a player than I do.

i know this is a me thing but performative reference to notes will always bother me

and i say this is performative because it's clearly formatted in a way no one could possibly understand, so the only purpose it serves is "hey look at me i take notes"

I have a related issue which might also just be personal preference.

Corwin references "having their own reasons" for disliking my slot in 1107, while in 1114 they say "Dislike Frog and Luke, feels like ~350ish is s/s...Something wasn't rubbing right around then..." which I'd hardly consider to be a reason, I think that's called a ping or a gut read or an intuition.

At best, it's a feeling which inspires reason by barely eluding it.

It reads like Corwin is concerned their simple ping read on my slot won't be accepted by the thread unless it's also viewed as logical and we believe they are reasonable. Corwin's first two catch up posts are reminding me of catchup posts I wrote when I was limmed D1 for being obvscum.

[Frogsterking]

I understand that not all 25 player slots can be treated equally 48 hours into the game.

Wow, I didn't realize we were only 48 hours in. It feels like it's been a lot longer than that for me.

And yeah, Bell, I fell asleep reading last night, sorry for being human.

I'm not sure Corwin would make this post as scum.

How so?

[Frogsterking]

They're being sarcastic and bitter. But I think it might come out differently if they felt any guilt toward their team.

Okay. What if their team is also lurking?

[Frogsterking]

actually if everyone would like to give a list of people they want eliminated in LIST format

Corwin
Roden
BlueBlood

[Frogsterking]

actually if everyone would like to give a list of people they want eliminated in LIST format

Corwin
Roden
BlueBlood

I would be surprised if there isn't 1 scum in these three players.

Thank you ahead of time if you collect the names and post the list, I think that might help a lot with the D1 structure.

[Frogsterking]

actually if everyone would like to give a list of people they want eliminated in LIST format

Corwin
Roden
BlueBlood

I would be surprised if there isn't 1 scum in these three players.

Thank you ahead of time if you collect the names and post the list, I think that might help a lot with the D1 structure.

• Corwin
  Roden
  BBT

I put the names in LIST I think

[Frogsterking]

i might have missed but i also inquired on why you townread the people on your wagon

At the time you asked I think it was three on me who I townread and Pooky who I think is obvtown has had his vote on me in spirit since the beginning of the game.

Luke: I think they seem uninformed and are genuinely trying to solve the game sometimes, I didn't think scum!Luke would get baited into the TvT with Rad at the time I witnessed their argument and I haven't moved either of them from my town pile since then.

Johnny: I think they seem extremely uninformed, I read them as VI. Rad helped me sort this one as well.

Galron: I think Galron is always scummy by tone, I don't think that's an effective way to get a read on him. I think he seems more active and invested in the game than I'm used to so I'm townbinning the slot and moving on.

[Frogsterking]

I didn't think scum!Luke would get baited into the TvT with Rad at the time I witnessed their argument and I haven't moved either of them from my town pile since then.

The way you worded this feels scum-slippy. I don't want to place a huge emphasis on it, cause town can misspeak, but a scum!Luke literally can't get into a TvT with any alignment Rad. That's an SvT or SvS.

And you call it

the TvT

as if we're looking back in post game and pointing out this TvT that happened. Like in your head, it's just a TvT and you forgot that not everyone knows it's a TvT yet.

What do you think was my motivation for writing that? Why do you think I chose to describe my read on Luke the way I did?

[Frogsterking]

What do you think was my motivation for writing that? Why do you think I chose to describe my read on Luke the way I did?

I don't think there's motivation in a scum slip? It's an accident. I think scum!Frogster could have just explained his supposed read in a way that accidentally showed informed knowledge of the interaction. But I've been wrong calling out scum slips in the past so I dunno. I guess others can judge for themselves here and I'll chew on it for a bit.

I think that's good you can recall times in the past you've been wrong when calling out scum slips. I think it's a good idea to chew on it for a little bit, I think it will make you feel better.

[Frogsterking]

damn some 5head strats ITT

Whose responses are we still waiting on?

Mine for one, I just now made my way to a mouse and keyboard.

[Frogsterking]

Order doesn't matter

Town:
Bell
T-Bone
Frogsterking
Rad
Dunnstral
PookyTheMagicalBear
Lukewarm
MalcolmTucker
Malakittens
JohnnyFarrar
Galron
PenguinPower
Klick
Taly Toogeloo
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)


Null:
Bellaphant
The toad
Cephrir
Dwlee99
Enchant
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)


Scum:
BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Corwinoid
Roden

[Frogsterking]

I feel confused about it

I am willing to answer questions.

Why do you think Titus decision to vote me is AI for them?

[Frogsterking]

Order doesn't matter

Town:
Bell

Cat Scratch Fever

T-Bone
Rad
Dunnstral
PookyTheMagicalBear
Lukewarm
MalcolmTucker
Malakittens
JohnnyFarrar
Galron
PenguinPower
Klick
Taly Toogeloo
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)


Null:
Bellaphant
The toad
Cephrir
Dwlee99
Enchant
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)


Scum:
BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Corwinoid
Roden

mfw I wrote a whole bunch of words about Frogster and don't even make it onto his reads list : (

Aw that's savage

If it makes you feel any better the reason your name is missing is because I used the list you posted as a template, because I assumed your list was the best.

[Frogsterking]

I feel confused about it

I am willing to answer questions.

Why do you think Titus decision to vote me is AI for them?

Because I've seen Titus do similar things as town before. They like to vote to try to set up VCA for later.

Now, I have criticisms with this way of playing. I feel the follow-up after the elimination tends to be weak, and I don't like when they push like that. But this is definitely how they play as town.

It's a terrible way of playing lol. I guess I may have grossly misjudged the slot though.

[Frogsterking]

I think scum are just lurking out. I'm guessing it's hard to resist the temptation to do nothing in the main thread with a 5 scum - 21 town starting point.

PEdit

Hey I made it onto the pagetop board

[Frogsterking]

5 scum - 21 town

I didn't know this

I thought it was interesting. On EM there was a scum pr role called yakuza which converted 1 town player of the yakuza's choice into a scum goon during the night, and it kills the yakuza in the process. There was a competitive setup which used the role and it required an excessive amount of town slots compared to scum slots in order to be balanced. I'm guessing there will be some similar type of mechanic at work during the night here in this theme.

[Frogsterking]

Yo Frog. Absolutely no one liked my scum-slip catch. Maybe Galron did, or he was being sarcastic. With you being the biggest wagon atm, and no one jumping on it, what's your assessment here? Anything special besides "it was bad"?

My main take away is that I mixed up 1v1 and TvT. Also it reminded me some players are bothered by technical inconsistencies, which I think overall is a good thing. Words and acronyms are meant to mean certain things and not mean other things, that's what makes them useful.

[Frogsterking]

I imagine at the stage most of you are, you probably throw in some light wifom intentionally just to see if people see it and misread you on it in your favor. So maybe slips are as good as meta dives... not all that great for the most part.

Can you elaborate on this?

[Frogsterking]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

What makes you think it's a meme or RVS vote?

The image in the spoiler tags, it's the first thing in your iso, and there isn't a description or explanation of what you saw or felt.

@Roden

What's the @ for? I can see your posts, I'm just not gonna respond right away when I'm trying to catch up between breaks at work.

Your reasons for thinking my vote wasn't real don't make much sense when you look at my vote within context. I made a joke but I would've just moved my vote by now if that's all it was. And it doesn't make any sense to think my vote was random when several people were scum reading you and you were one of the leading wagons.

If you don't know why I scum read you, you could just ask. But it doesn't seem like you care, it looks like you're just firing back against someone you think is likely to draw votes and appeasing other players who have more of a presence.

Roden, I'm sensing fear from you.

[Frogsterking]

I think scum are just lurking out. I'm guessing it's hard to resist the temptation to do nothing in the main thread with a 5 scum - 21 town starting point.

PEdit

Hey I made it onto the pagetop board

actually if everyone would like to give a list of people they want eliminated in LIST format

Corwin
Roden
BlueBlood

I would be surprised if there isn't 1 scum in these three players.

Thank you ahead of time if you collect the names and post the list, I think that might help a lot with the D1 structure.

Can you go into further detail with this? This doesn't really add up with what you said earlier.

roden gib me readlist pls thx

[Frogsterking]

1355 I think Dunn is telling the truth because I think Dunn is naturally suspicious of others and I think that point of view comes across in the writing about each player.

I think it's possible the writing could be faked with dedicated scum play, I just don't think that's what's happening here.

I imagine at the stage most of you are, you probably throw in some light wifom intentionally just to see if people see it and misread you on it in your favor. So maybe slips are as good as meta dives... not all that great for the most part.

Can you elaborate on this?

So back when I was playing, and even back then I didn't really get out of the newbie stage, but... wifom wasn't necessarily a tool, but a liability. I was just thinking about... what would people who have been playing for a decade or more be doing here to throw each other off? Cause I'm seeing some people in here with accounts from 10, 15+ years ago.

Maybe wifom traps? As either alignment. To get people to respond to things in a certain way to get a better read from them or push how they look to others in a certain direction.

I like theory and this just popped up for me during this interaction.

This is interesting, I'm going to give this some thought tonight. I have to say that even though my account is old I'm extremely inexperienced here compared to most players, so I don't have any insider knowledge.

[Frogsterking]

You absolutely do not

I'd like you to give him one, yeah. I think whatever you used to have against read lists was borne of mostly stubbornness.

[Frogsterking]

You absolutely do not

I'd like you to give him one, yeah. I think whatever you used to have against read lists was borne of mostly stubbornness.

I absolutely hate read lists also, and stubbornly refuse to give them.

That's convenient considering you're shaping out to be a very likely scum flip here.

[Frogsterking]

Make me bruv

You absolutely do not

I'd like you to give him one, yeah. I think whatever you used to have against read lists was borne of mostly stubbornness.

1189 wtf

lol

[Frogsterking]

omg I hate you vets and how you interact! It's all a big inside joke TT

With the exception of one comment I made to Penguin about peak bandwidth I'm not making inside jokes. I'm not here to alienate anyone.

Sometimes there are times to post and sometimes there are times to taunt. And when those times are I make up on the fly.

I haven't had time to play Mafia in about 6 months, so if I'm being a little extra anyone can let me know and I'll tone it down. I'm not trying to make anyone feel like this game isn't fun.

Nah man I'm having fun. I though this was an inside joke:

Make me bruv

You absolutely do not

I'd like you to give him one, yeah. I think whatever you used to have against read lists was borne of mostly stubbornness.

1189 wtf

lol

If not, I dunno wtf frogster's laughing at. Damn you frogster!

lol not an inside joke, I was just laughing because I realized he said "make me bruv" and he already made one a long time ago.

[Frogsterking]

Vig

Corwin

[Frogsterking]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

[Frogsterking]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

Why?

Because whatever reasoning brought you to the conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. I also can't explain anything to you unless I can understand what kind of information you're looking for. As long as I can understand what you're asking and you aren't asking too much I'm willing to try to answer.

[Frogsterking]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

Why?

Because whatever reasoning brought you to the conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. I also can't explain anything to you unless I can understand what kind of information you're looking for. As long as I can understand what you're asking and you aren't asking too much I'm willing to try to answer.

Why are you scum reading me then if you think I'm just wrong??

I think you've done nothing before this point to indicate to me that you're town, and I previously scumread you based on process of elimination and activity level. My read going into this evening was that I can reason my way to 1/3 in this game, and I believed there to be 1 scum between you/BBT/Corwin.

I do think that the way you're arguing with me now is more like a Town who is just wrong. That's new information though, I didn't start to think that until shortly after I read 1419.

[Frogsterking]

Kinda think Corwin might be town. Don't quote me on this though

Pooky, I must know your secret for finding these gifs

That's awkward, I think Ronen might be town.

[Frogsterking]

I'm going to take a second (third?) look at Galron tomorrow.

[Frogsterking]

@frog, why? I had Roden as one of those early gut reads, then they wavered a bit, but I think some of their interactions are ok.

I don't understand, you have them as town or scum now?

[Frogsterking]

@frog, why? I had Roden as one of those early gut reads, then they wavered a bit, but I think some of their interactions are ok.

@frog, why? I had Roden as one of those early gut reads, then they wavered a bit, but I think some of their interactions are ok.

I don't understand, you have them as town or scum now?

Regardless, 1419, Bella, Roden assumes I care about why he scum reads me. It suggests he values his read intrinsically, which makes me suspect he really believes what he's saying.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Cephrir

I've seen about enough, Rad makes a good point about BBT being a likely red herring. I think the solving was better when there was a healthy Ceph wagon rather than a healthy BBT wagon. Let's get this game state back on track for Town.

[Frogsterking]

The game state leads no where when we follow Ceph IMO. We were in a better place when Ceph had several votes and was chastising us for wagoning him before he had a chance to play.

[Frogsterking]

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

Dude..look at my iso..I have 133 posts. I've been playing this game like full time for the last 48 hours.

I don't think YOU could have a PoE in the last 48 hours because you've not had the opportunity to make one.

[Frogsterking]

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

PE: Ngl I don't hate a Ceph wagon.

I don't think Frog/Ceph is ever S/S. A red scum flip from Ceph heavily implies that he was trying to prod Frog into tunneling me with his earlier comment.

IMO that's what happened there. I believe we are both Town and Ceph is not. I also believe the Frog/BBT wagons are taking the heat away from the earlier Ceph wagon and I want to fix that now.

[Frogsterking]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

uhhhh my recollection is that i spent that game tunnelling you because i thought your behavior was scummy and i could mislim you for it. are we talking about the same game

You went out of your way to provoke me and rally STD to attack me multiple times that game. I...don't know why you're pretending like that didn't happen.

It's just gaslighting, kick his raccoon butt

[Frogsterking]

@Bell

@CSF

Ceph flips red here I think

[Frogsterking]

Hey ceph how would you describe the experience of playing against me in this game?

[Frogsterking]

in before "gotcha, you shouldn't know we're not on the same side"

Gotcha, you're thinking 2 steps ahead because you're playing with more knowledge than the rest of us, and you like it.

[Frogsterking]

I think that Cephrir is very good at making people feel bad about voting for him. As I mentioned before, I associate this with his scum game more than I do his town game. I feel like that is what is happening here.

I feel bad cuz he's not having fun.

and him not having fun is true regardless of his alignment.

and this is a game so he should have fun.

cuz making games unfun is just not good >_>

Well then it seems the only solution is to vote him out of the game.

[Frogsterking]

One scum in Roden/BBT/Corwin is such an eclectic group to tie together. What interactions do they have that leads you to believe all this?

It was based on PoE, not interactions.

I'm rethinking my PoE based on Rad's point about Blue's activity levels, my new take last night that Roden is townie, and CSF's initial gut take that Corwin is townie.

Assuming that my PoE was wrong, which seems likely, there is at least one scum who is collecting town reads, and Corwin/BBT/Roden may be getting scapegoated to some extent. I think Ceph is a great example of a slot who fits what I'm looking for and is playing well within their scum range.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE:

I had no internet access the entire day yesterday so don’t know when I’m going to catch up. so Titus told me I could unvote, so I did.

~Nancy

I'm choosing to townread Titus based on Dunnstral's take, who I townread. Will a Ceph flip help Titus with her VCA?

[Frogsterking]

Frog, if not Ceph, then who?

I'm not sure yet. I'm mainly looking at low-mid activity posters who were townread for bad reasons as well as at the remaining lurker slots (Taly and Dwlee I think.)

[Frogsterking]

What are your thoughts on Penguin and OTH?

Definitely worth a look

[Frogsterking]

It concerns me, though, that Frog conveniently forgot about mala who's been both low activity and low content when she is posting. It annoyed the hell out of me that people were up my ass for dealing with life issues, when mala's getting a pass with posts like

why is there 31 pages

NoU

-.-

mew

Actually that he's looking at every *other* low activity player is bothersome.

Not true, Luke and I both TR Mala slot. You can find the exact point I decided to rule out the Mala slot for D1 in my iso.

[Frogsterking]

Frog, can you answer my question please?

Yes, I can try.

Penguin looks like a slot who may have slipped through the cracks early on. I recall Bell voicing suspicions about the slot's inconsistent presence solving in the thread, maybe Bell posted this sometime around yesterday afternoon, and I'm taking those suspicions relatively seriously. I don't think any of my strong townreads are willing to go to bat for penguin and that's the sort of thing I'm looking for right now. Penguin maybe has more posts than what I'm looking for, but looking at their iso it seems their post count may be inflated and their actual content fairly sparse.

OTH is complicated because I don't have much experience with Hydras, and I've played with 1 head (Gamma) a very long time ago and none with the other head. I mainly ruled out OTH due to my stronger townreads being willing to go to bat for the slot, who have more experience playing with marci, so collecting new information from my townreads is going to be the biggest factor in how I assess the slot.

A couple other complications with the OTH slot are my initial interaction with the slot as well as the conflicting opinions posted in the thread regarding marci's scum game. My initial take on OTH was negative which points modestly to chances of flipping red, but it also means I'm more likely to be biased trying to read the slot now. I think the conflicting information posted about marci's scum game in the thread indicates an overall lack of experience playing with or against marci's scum game, as well as highly variable scum play from marci.

I also decided in answer to your question earlier about compromises on Ceph, that I'm willing to compromise vote Corwin because his claim that I showed preferential treatment to Mala looked like shade, and I respect the process I took to reach 1 out of 3 Corwin/Roden/BBT, I'm willing to stand by it as far as Corwin goes even though since then I've thought you and Roden seem more likely to flip town.

[Frogsterking]

@Dancing Puppets

Titus is willing to compromise vote Ceph for info, yes or no?

Nancy is willing to townblock Dunnstral, yes or no?

[Frogsterking]

@Malcolm

If you haven't explained the Dwlee town read already in your iso, can you explain?

If you've already explained it feel free to tell me to read better and I will find it in your iso later.

[Frogsterking]

@Bell

Scum!Ceph throws shade at LHF lurker partners for distancing, yes or no?

@Luke

Aren't you the one who had me and frogster as S+S in your notes? What changed?

Wrong, Corwin was the lurker slot with the SvS notes, not Taly.

@Corwin

Not true, Luke and I both TR Mala slot. You can find the exact point I decided to rule out the Mala slot for D1 in my iso.

You want to help me out with that, because your mentions of mala in your iso go from "I have played scum with scum!Mala and town with scum!Mala and I admit their start seems a little different in this game." in 482, to town binning her for pooky's spreadsheet at 1260, to not mentioning her again a single time (at least by name) until just now.

This is possibly a contrived attempt at pretend-solving, I specifically decided to town bin Mala around the time I posted 482. That was my main motivation for sharing that comment in 482. Mala isn't mentioned again because I had no new takes on the slot. That's not difficult to understand. If you're town and this isn't pretend-solving, then stop shading my slot for no reason.

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler: Readlists So Far

Highlights so far:

BBT is the most susp'd person - 14 scumreads 0 townreads.
Lukewarm is the most townread person - 19 townreads 0 scumreads.

I townread BBT

[Frogsterking]

Mala hasn’t really done jack except make an odd rvs vote on us and give an enthusiastic tr on Luke.

and

give an enthusiastic tr

on Luke.

[Frogsterking]

Let me help you with your vca argument: counterwagons are a fake concept 99 times out of 100

Not true, while obviously not foolproof, they are often far more useful than that.

VCAs for example rarely have two competing scumwagons though it does happen, so in like approximately 78% of cases, if you flip scum. the cw is statistically highly likely to be town.

im not interested in an extended argument about how probability works since it invariably convinces no one of anything, so i will just stop at "that isn't how probability works"

+1 with the exception if anyone here is a stats teacher. I've been persuaded once before using probability by a retired stats teacher.

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler:

Let me help you with your vca argument: counterwagons are a fake concept 99 times out of 100

Not true, while obviously not foolproof, they are often far more useful than that.

VCAs for example rarely have two competing scumwagons though it does happen, so in like approximately 78% of cases, if you flip scum. the cw is statistically highly likely to be town.

im not interested in an extended argument about how probability works since it invariably convinces no one of anything, so i will just stop at "that isn't how probability works"

+1 with the exception if anyone here is a stats teacher. I've been persuaded once before using probability by a retired stats teacher.

I have a math degree. I hate explaining math to people. Unless it's incredibly relevant I'm keeping 'real' stats out of my entertainment life.

I thought you were getting run up pretty flimsyily but I do not like this. The last time I saw this argument both players were scum lol. How strange.

Ewwww.

The last time I got wagoned I was town. So what?

Also not how stats works.

@Corwin

You don't have to engage if you don't want to, I know you don't want an extended discussion, but I thought you might want a brief chance to flex. I consider it potentially AI and there is something I'm looking for.

I'm mainly looking to hear if I'm on the right track or I need to retake 101.

My problem with Dancing Puppets claim is that even if I accept her results are are both true and applicable to any situations within this game, it doesn't provide evidence that her theory about CW has "predictive utility", because her results don't indicate to me that the CW slot is any likelier to flip town (78%) than any other random slot after 1 scum is taken out of the pool. Her argument is incomplete at best because she fails to specify what situation she's referring to (limlo? 13 player? 10 town - 5 scum?) and what the random chance to flip town should be if the CW placement has no effect. 78% sounds like a number which can be achieved by random chance anyway, depending on the setup and the Day, which makes me suspicious about her argument.

I also don't like her argument that a scum v scum counterwagon is unlikely for a similar reason, because 2 scum wagons are unlikely to be selected simultaneously by random chance anyway. Her statement being true doesn't provide evidence that her theory about the CW has predictive utility unless a CW has a statistically significant effect on the flip rate compared to the random chance of any other slot, which is something she can't provide meaningful evidence for anecdotally, even if her intuition is ultimately correct.

Do you think I am a stats noob or do you think I retained some information from my psychology courses?

[Frogsterking]

JF, Penguin, C&g, Taly, Roden.

This is your scum list?

[Frogsterking]

Nvm, found it. That’s pretty messed up on Sanae.
Well it’s not like it doesn’t make perfect sense for MALA to be the MiB but as someone mentioned, flavor/alignment.

Bell, would scum!Ceph shade scum!Corwin's catchup post as performative?

PEdit:

Is there any reason you oppose a D1 penguin lim?

[Frogsterking]

JF, Penguin, C&g, Taly, Roden.

This is your scum list?

I liked PP's interactions with Dunnstral; it felt aggressive enough to be townie for him

Okay. Is the kind of sparse content on track for penguin? They seem a little light.

[Frogsterking]

Okay. Is the kind of sparse content on track for penguin? They seem a little light.

Yeah he's pretty sparse as both alignments.

And you think the Ceph wagon is likely to blow up in smoke?

[Frogsterking]

1918 and 1930 I appreciate, and I appreciate Cor going into the topic during your time off. My main takeaways are an increased skepticism on Puppets level of motivation to solve in this game, a slight town lean on the Cor slot, the danger of conflating probability with statistics (and I need to review the definition of random events), and the point how scum v scum wagons might be more common than I've been giving them credit for.

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler:

For the record I like a frog vote. Dude seems shady. Lemme look at a plist and I'll give you the ones who should live to d2

Also Corwin talked a bit about his problems elsewhere, they're real and we should give him space.

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone

Can you go into these reads some more, and talk about why you're voting Frogster?

Post restriction has me curious. Not necessarily a townread but I would like to, y'know,

play

with Irch and RH9

I like T-Bone, and I don't think scum T-Bone picks a fight with the post restricted hydra here

Frogger seems to be... fake? Like sometimes they'll post something and I'll think to myself "there's no way they actually believe this"

Stand BACK while I post my ROCK SOLID D1 case on Frogger everybody. It'll have quotes and everything

Johnny is the above still the best you have?

Because what you wrote about your read on me is terrible.

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler:

For the record I like a frog vote. Dude seems shady. Lemme look at a plist and I'll give you the ones who should live to d2

Also Corwin talked a bit about his problems elsewhere, they're real and we should give him space.

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone

Can you go into these reads some more, and talk about why you're voting Frogster?

Post restriction has me curious. Not necessarily a townread but I would like to, y'know,

play

with Irch and RH9

I like T-Bone, and I don't think scum T-Bone picks a fight with the post restricted hydra here

Frogger seems to be... fake? Like sometimes they'll post something and I'll think to myself "there's no way they actually believe this"

Stand BACK while I post my ROCK SOLID D1 case on Frogger everybody. It'll have quotes and everything

Johnny is the above still the best you have?

Because what you wrote about your read on me is terrible.

Wow fat fingers again, that was at Frogster

Do you think what Johnny wrote about his read on me is objectively terrible, or is it just me?

[Frogsterking]

How often does Town!Johnny change his vote?

[Frogsterking]

Objectively? No. But I agree my attention would be better used elsewhere. Idk where tho.

There should be an unvote here IMO

[Frogsterking]

I'm going to go for a walk and get some fresh air so I can focus when I tackle 1967 and 1971.

VOTE: Johnny

Spoiler:

For the record I like a frog vote. Dude seems shady. Lemme look at a plist and I'll give you the ones who should live to d2

Also Corwin talked a bit about his problems elsewhere, they're real and we should give him space.

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone

Can you go into these reads some more, and talk about why you're voting Frogster?

Post restriction has me curious. Not necessarily a townread but I would like to, y'know,

play

with Irch and RH9

I like T-Bone, and I don't think scum T-Bone picks a fight with the post restricted hydra here

Frogger seems to be... fake? Like sometimes they'll post something and I'll think to myself "there's no way they actually believe this"

Stand BACK while I post my ROCK SOLID D1 case on Frogger everybody. It'll have quotes and everything

Johnny is the above still the best you have?

Because what you wrote about your read on me is terrible.

Wow fat fingers again, that was at Frogster

Do you think what Johnny wrote about his read on me is objectively terrible, or is it just me?

I mean I lean town on him so I think he's fine.

Trust me, I get the impulse when someone does something bad directed at you. It's something I fight all the time, not always successfully. I don't think you can objectively look at it since it's directed at you.

Yes and 1963 is bad even still. What caused Johnny's read to change, and if it did, why is he still voting me? I think scum!Johnny is too lazy to move his vote around, town!johnny moves his vote in 1963 if he hasn't done it already.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Johnny

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Bellaphant, ?, ?, ?, ?]

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Bella

VOTE: Cephrir

Quick explanation of my Bella vote:

I was looking at the activity levels for slots that are under the radar and may have been townread early for bad reasons. I thought maybe it was a mistake to sheep Klick (who I townread) on their Bella read here:

Spoiler:

Bella feels town, maybe Frogster too

Still struggling for strong scumreads

I could have made this posy
I'm really rather happy with the trio of {Frog, Bella, CSF} in general

Since then, Klick reaffirmed their read on Bella and gave me a good reason to want to sheep their Bella read (Bella is Klick's wife) :

Spoiler:

I'm told Luke's scum game is scary but equally he's had some good takes. I think he's probably a net positive on the game state.

This is the only klick post that hit me any which way. Who did you here this from?

Also klick has good votes

Bellaphant (AKA my wife) told me about the newbie she recently finished with Lukewarm. I also think I remember seeing he had a scummie nomination?

I agree with you btw that the resistance to Pooky townreads is worth noting btw. Skimmed so I can't remember who was doing this, but if I were scum and Pooky was town I'd be concerned about him getting an early pass.

UNVOTE: Johnny

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Bellaphant, ?, ?, ?, ?]

Nah not feeling that at all.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: johnnyfarrar
We think this is worth voting rn

~GE

VOTE: Johnny

Yeah get this slot out of here IMO

[Frogsterking]

Re 2368 Johnny - I'd not noticed Frog's posts you're referring to. Understandable reason to leave a SR alone for a while, I get that.

It's also AtE from Johnny to get players off his back.

[Frogsterking]

Yes and 1963 is bad even still. What caused Johnny's read to change, and if it did, why is he still voting me? I think scum!Johnny is too lazy to move his vote around, town!johnny moves his vote in 1963 if he hasn't done it already.

I stand by what I said earlier about the slot. "Haha yeah Frog's probably town" > followed by no unvote is a bad look regardless of Johnny's alignment. Now Johnny is attempting to frame his bad/scummy play as being my fault for saying something he can't be bothered to consider. Johnny is well within his right to play this way if he would like to, I just believe it makes him a good candidate to get booted off the island first.

[Frogsterking]

I'd actually contend that this pushing on me is disingenuous and based on day old knowledge. I've made a POE that I'm slowly working through and have even ISOd YOU and you don't seem to have noticed or care. Why are you so against Pooky being townread? Why did you show up when Ceph voted you but not when I was talking about you yesterday?

You also claimed town!Johnny is too lazy to change their vote in 1963.

[Frogsterking]

I'd actually contend that this pushing on me is disingenuous and based on day old knowledge. I've made a POE that I'm slowly working through and have even ISOd YOU and you don't seem to have noticed or care. Why are you so against Pooky being townread? Why did you show up when Ceph voted you but not when I was talking about you yesterday?

Not lining up with your earlier excuses:

I think you're overestimating town Johnny's effort levels

I haven't posted a gif as a pagetop because I can't be bothered to remember/figure out how to do it

[Frogsterking]

Johnny "I don't care as long as I'm not getting voted" Farrar

[Frogsterking]

I do think some people need to back track a little and start taking safer reads/stances. Since a lot of times I feel like they're town binning people for poor reasons or just because they responded to them.

This is not something I intend to do on day 1 of a large game

Anyways, finally home. Guess I am gonna try and solve the damn thing.

After doing some reading

Does this make me scum too frog?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question and you just wanted to make sure your posts are being seen.

[Frogsterking]

I do think some people need to back track a little and start taking safer reads/stances. Since a lot of times I feel like they're town binning people for poor reasons or just because they responded to them.

This is not something I intend to do on day 1 of a large game

Anyways, finally home. Guess I am gonna try and solve the damn thing.

After doing some reading

Does this make me scum too frog?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question and you just wanted to make sure your posts are being seen.

No, I just hated 2414

I don't really at all, Luke. The difference between what you quoted about yourself and the unrelated point I was making is that Johnny makes these comments to deflect suspicion away from himself, whereas you post them unprompted by others.

[Frogsterking]

I do think some people need to back track a little and start taking safer reads/stances. Since a lot of times I feel like they're town binning people for poor reasons or just because they responded to them.

This is not something I intend to do on day 1 of a large game

Anyways, finally home. Guess I am gonna try and solve the damn thing.

After doing some reading

Does this make me scum too frog?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question and you just wanted to make sure your posts are being seen.

No, I just hated 2414

I don't really at all, Luke. The difference between what you quoted about yourself and the unrelated point I was making is that Johnny makes these comments to deflect suspicion away from himself, whereas you post them unprompted by others.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Lukewarm

[Frogsterking]

Lol

[Frogsterking]

frogs

your voting pattern is incoherent

*Holds out hands*

Arrest me

[Frogsterking]

I really hate 2430 rawr.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dancing Puppets

Seems to make sense when focusing on the feedback from players I townread.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dancing Puppets

Seems to make sense when focusing on the feedback from players I townread.

FYI the main opposition to scum!Puppets is coming from Dunn. I think CSF adequately addressed Dunn's reason for townreading Puppets.

[Frogsterking]

Frogster, is there a reason that you are purposefully avoiding a Corwin/Math vote?

I seem to remember you having them in your scum reads for a while, but since I have suggested them as a player to be wagoned to day you have voted Bella->Ceph->Johnny->Me (lol)->Dancing Puppets

I think Math incorrectly worldbuilding a gamestate centered around me being scum indicates Town!Math.

By the time Corwin replaced out I had a townlean on the slot.

[Frogsterking]

It does appear Puppets is having an easier time explaining Town reads than scum reads.

[Frogsterking]

2741 lamist

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Puppets

Shut down instantly okay

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dwlee

Seriously we can't ALL be Town here people

[Frogsterking]

In my experience, the active posters accusing each other are usually town here, and the scum team for the most part is just lying low. I have a strong TR who is willing to go to bat for every recent player I've voted except for Dwlee.

[Frogsterking]

I humbly request that the Town draw their attention to this fine character over here.

[Frogsterking]

FYI I'm leaning toward Roden+Dwlee+maybe Johnny at the moment. RCE has been helpful in the past with scumhunting but the slot he replaced into might not be Town here.

[Frogsterking]

Lol we tried breaking it

Can I ask who started that effort?

I was a proponent early on of the idea, and TBone mainly raised the argument against it.

[Frogsterking]

Is the post restriction cheeseable? Like, they would have different prod rules no? If their post count is reached.

I brought this up early on

[Frogsterking]

@RCE

I pulled up when I brought up an identical point about the post restriction, and where that discussion concluded. The quotes are in the spoilers below.

Spoiler:

Leaning. It's the most suspicious thing I've seen in the first 24 hours. To be clear, the fact that I think they could be faking. The restriction could be real and that's not alignment indicative.

Can't we force a test of it by seeing if they are forced to speak again after using up all 100 words?

We can force them to post the rest of their 100 words under threat of being wagoned and then watch whether their slot is required to post again on D1?

We can force them to post the rest of their 100 words under threat of being wagoned and then watch whether their slot is required to post again on D1?

I also don't want to cause that's not a fun thing to do. If the restriction is actually real then we'd just be dicks about it and that would make an unfun restriction even more unfun. The obligation is on them to not hide behind the post restriction at this point. We don't have any obligation to do anything about them at this stage.

I think both ways of handling it are viable options, I think the best argument you put forth is that we don't have any obligation to do anything about them at this stage, and the obligation is currently on them to contribute the best they can and not hide behind the post restriction.

[Frogsterking]

By PP you mean the penguin guy who became Best Bird? I mean yeah I guess so, my read though is based purely on more than one of my strong TRs willing to argue in favor of town!Penguin.

[Frogsterking]

@RCE

Spoiler:

Frog, can you answer my question please?

Yes, I can try.

Penguin looks like a slot who may have slipped through the cracks early on. I recall Bell voicing suspicions about the slot's inconsistent presence solving in the thread, maybe Bell posted this sometime around yesterday afternoon, and I'm taking those suspicions relatively seriously. I don't think any of my strong townreads are willing to go to bat for penguin and that's the sort of thing I'm looking for right now. Penguin maybe has more posts than what I'm looking for, but looking at their iso it seems their post count may be inflated and their actual content fairly sparse.

OTH is complicated because I don't have much experience with Hydras, and I've played with 1 head (Gamma) a very long time ago and none with the other head. I mainly ruled out OTH due to my stronger townreads being willing to go to bat for the slot, who have more experience playing with marci, so collecting new information from my townreads is going to be the biggest factor in how I assess the slot.

A couple other complications with the OTH slot are my initial interaction with the slot as well as the conflicting opinions posted in the thread regarding marci's scum game. My initial take on OTH was negative which points modestly to chances of flipping red, but it also means I'm more likely to be biased trying to read the slot now. I think the conflicting information posted about marci's scum game in the thread indicates an overall lack of experience playing with or against marci's scum game, as well as highly variable scum play from marci.

I also decided in answer to your question earlier about compromises on Ceph, that I'm willing to compromise vote Corwin because his claim that I showed preferential treatment to Mala looked like shade, and I respect the process I took to reach 1 out of 3 Corwin/Roden/BBT, I'm willing to stand by it as far as Corwin goes even though since then I've thought you and Roden seem more likely to flip town.

JF, Penguin, C&g, Taly, Roden.

This is your scum list?

I liked PP's interactions with Dunnstral; it felt aggressive enough to be townie for him

JF, Penguin, C&g, Taly, Roden.

This is your scum list?

I liked PP's interactions with Dunnstral; it felt aggressive enough to be townie for him

Okay. Is the kind of sparse content on track for penguin? They seem a little light.

Okay. Is the kind of sparse content on track for penguin? They seem a little light.

Yeah he's pretty sparse as both alignments.

I placed into the spoilers above the last time I went into my thoughts on penguin, and I also quoted one of my townreads who talked me down on the slot.

I'm sure there is another section here in the main thread where CSF and another one of my townreads explain further that penguin is sometimes limbait for the same reasons I was suspecting them.

I don't believe you can find it by looking through my iso because I don't believe it was in direct response to me. My guess is that the easiest way to locate that discussion is through BBT's iso, because BBT has been the strongest proponent of a penguin wagon to my recollection.

[Frogsterking]

CSF are you familiar with RCE's scum game? I've only played with town!RCE before.

[Frogsterking]

Does anyone oppose Roden + Dwlee scum team?

[Frogsterking]

i would like to flip mathblade dude is probly not town

Because?

[Frogsterking]

And roden has been dead null to me all game. Felt inoffensive all day in a way that does not align with my prior experience with him as town. Nothing that made me go (!!SCUM!!), but also just not making me think town at any point

I find that people in this section of my reads really often are just scum who no one can be bothered to vote because they're never the *best* vote

I'd be rather happy with a Roden vote
I have no opinion on Dwlee at all

This is why I'm trying to herd Townies into the direction of these two players.

[Frogsterking]

I guess I should mention though that roden!scum is contingent on ceph!town. In light of a roden!town flip I resume screaming for Ceph's head on a platter, given Roden's comments about Ceph's scum game.

[Frogsterking]

No actually, Taly remind me of who you replaced into?

[Frogsterking]

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and add Taly to my Roden+Dwlee theory. Roden+Dwlee+Taly gives a nice trio of go-nowhere slots I imagine scum are likely to be sitting in.