LOST (Game Over)

[Bellaphant]

I should vote you for that! P-edit klick

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, that tracks.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: cephir

[Bellaphant]

@klick, can you talk to me about the top and bottom two on that list? I don't feel like I've gotten enough from ceph or pp to read them, my read keeps flipping in frogsterking every post they make, and similar Ish with CSF. The rest are town thoiugh, hard agree.

[Bellaphant]

Frogster's obviously scum but can we pretend we don't know that for the next 4 days to get some more info out of him before we inevitably feed him to the polar bears?

Honestly this? It's silly, it made Me laugh and it vibes with where I was at the time? They also seem to be sounding a bunch of people out and feel confident in a way that seems townie.

[Bellaphant]

Like I'm giving Roden a pass for today for his spoiler for similar reasons.

I can see the ceph thing but think their first interactions with you/rad was weak. Pp I'm not convinced on.

[Bellaphant]

okay, and being keen on the gamestate early vs, later on is scummy how?
Also I brought up the frogster thing because and marci were both like "lol we're getting SR for READING"
~GE

Because. As. The. Game. Moves. Foward. More. Information. Comes. To. Light. And. It. Makes. Sense. For. People. To. "Be Keen." On. The. Gamestate. Later. On. While. That. Information. Does. Not. Exist. In. The. Early. Game. To. Uninformed. Players.

@klick, do you mean this?

[Bellaphant]

Hiya, I'm low access at the moment, but If you could chuck a couple of questions/thoughts at me, that'd be great: as I said, I'm struggling to get a firm read in you too.

[Bellaphant]

#frogstar, I went back and just read your posts in iso And I think it's actually not massively to do with anything alignment indicative: I found the posts where you explained stuff townie and the shorter/direct stuff scummy. I had this issue recently with STD and gamma, so it's probably a me problem. I also had weird vibes about the you/gamma hydra/rad interaction - I didn't agree with your points about noticing the restrictions and the whole convo still looks a bit strange, but I liked your interaction with rad better.

In terms of reads, rad, pooky, bell, klick for their reads and interaction with my question, town, I'd like to say Luke is town but I've been hurt before, I kind of hate everything Dunn posts.

More later, many kids.

[Bellaphant]

@frogstar, more reads! I can't get my head around the g.e hydra, I don't town read pp, ceph can be day one town, I've read some Malcolm games and they seemed quite lim baity, often for tone, enchant is probably town.

Happy to answer any questions!

Do you have anything for me CSF? You were a weird null for me

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

@rad, this is going to sound a bit rude, but I really don't mean it to - I think you are displaying a bit more personality/confidence here, which I'm correlating with your success/pride at the newbie. I did wonder if the 'flair' was scummy, but the main body of your interactions with people, especially around the frog thing, seemed town.

Someone asked about ceph, I'm mainly sheeping klick here.

Enchant is purely a meta read. They are very different to how they were in a recent completed game where people wanted them correctly limned by about page five.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: galron

[Bellaphant]

PookyTheMagicalBear
Rad
Corwinoid
Dunnstral
JohnnyFarrar
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone
Cat Scratch
Lukewarm

I reserve the right to add/remove

It's really early here but I can't even work out if these are town or scum reads. Can you expand on any of them?

[Bellaphant]

@johnny, I know you were joking but I actually do catch up backwards! Can I have some explanations? I was confused because it has some of my town reads, mostly my null reads and misses some people I think are obv town.

[Bellaphant]

Pooky and rad are fine, I don't have a read on you, corwin, the hydra (I wish I did, I think I can read rh9), cat might be town for vibes as you say, Luke I'm super wary of because of our last game. I had an early tr of klick and I weirdly think enchant is town. I guess the person that threw me most in your list was Dunn.

What do you think of the Titus hydra?

[Bellaphant]

Also, I stopped watching lost a few episodes into the sideways season but adored it before then. My teenage self had a lot of feelings about Kate and Sawyer.

[Bellaphant]

Hey bbt, can you explain? I was feeling that earlier but not sure now

[Bellaphant]

Don't agree with frog about the Titus hydra for now, but can see where they are coming from. Reassured cat is picking up the same vibes as me from galron.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: bbt

I actually read some of ktane as it was happening, not enough to follow all the bomb stuff, enough to grab some town reads.

[Bellaphant]

Town
Pooky
Rad
Cat
Enchant
Frog
Luke


Gap
Klick
Dancing puppets
Ceph
Roden
Bell
Johnny
Taly

Scum
Bbt
Galron
Dunn
Toad
Pp


Null
Tbone
Mala
Oof the hook
Cytosine and Guanine
Malcolm
Corwin
Dweelee

[Bellaphant]

Sorry frog, copied in the wrong order. The ones under the gap are also town, if that helps, just...less town. Ordinarily there would be some more nuance between scum/null but I figure this ia fine for what you want?

[Bellaphant]

Town, to be clear

[Bellaphant]

Gullible how, bell? Rad feels town enough to me - although they did just win a scum game!

[Bellaphant]

If I were to write sentences about that other group, it's people o think could be town but I have questions about. Honestly Luke is probably in there too, but 'town enough for day one'.

P-edit @bell, I think rad is a good player. Have you done a large before rad?

[Bellaphant]

@rad, have you done a large before? I hate larges, I signed up because I love bbt and lost in about equal measure)
Naive, maybe?

[Bellaphant]

Hey @luke, why am I red for you? Can you come chat to me, I felt like we could have similar thoughts before (even when you were scum!) Some questions from you might help clarify my thinking overall.

[Bellaphant]

@frog, why? I had Roden as one of those early gut reads, then they wavered a bit, but I think some of their interactions are ok.

[Bellaphant]

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

[Bellaphant]

it's nice to know that whenever i want to pocket rad i can just make some pretty, rational sounding explanations and get a free pass :3

I know this is a joke but it makes me concerned on a personal level, because I am also this person.

[Bellaphant]

I guess I understood the Poe more when they said about finding 1/3 scum. I am maybe interpreted it more like 'they aren't town right now so..'

I relied on klick for my ceph read but am kinda fine with it..

P-edit yes, agree.

[Bellaphant]

I dunno why I have so many people putting me in their scum pile. I have 129 posts, I'm not a hard sort. This shouldn't be hard for them. But there I am, in the bottom half of half the player's reads.

To people who haven't played with you before, this can be taken as manipulative. I think that is what most of them are seeing - you being manipulative.

This!! This is my issue with bell. I like a lot of their more flowly posts (in fact some on this page) but then stuff like this feels really constructed and like it's shaping a narrative.

[Bellaphant]

Ive already said I was basing my ceph read on what klick said and I don't like their recent posting.

Seen it from ceph or scum?

[Bellaphant]

Taly must know?

[Bellaphant]

Yeah it's that

I know I'm supposed to scumread Cat as well but tbh my vote on her was pretty much omgus because I didn't have anywhere to push or any scumreads and I wanted to press her vote, she's kind of fine

Supposed to feels very self aware

[Bellaphant]

Polar bears are pretty evil.

@bbt, your vote felt sneaky. You aren't under the radar sneaky. I'm still not feeling it. I probably could have moved my vote to ceph but in basically waiting for your catch up.

@off the hook, your issue with klick feels weird. Why klick, why that read? Their read on like....ceph is more interesting and I felt they responded Newell to questions about that

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Bellaphant]

It was, but you aren't being now. 'fight me'/'lets dance' isn't sneaky.

I just don't feel anything about penguin. They seem quite snippy and like...I don't see them solving. They are lumped in with ceph for that reason, some of it is just vibes, which isn't great but like is day one fine.

[Bellaphant]

@bbt, ceph improved in my eyes for a bit and then a wagon formed on him and he actually got worse! He got weird and ate and sarky

I wrote this hours ago, with a p-edit about corwin but it didn't go through

[Bellaphant]

It's actually more interesting that bbt sprung up as the ceph counter, in hindsight.
P-edit I'm going to have to iso Dunn aren't I.

[Bellaphant]

2080 is super town, tbone! What's your issue with cat.
?

[Bellaphant]

I mean frog encourages the Cephrir push and Bella pushes on him to townread frog so like

Yeah that's scummy I think

Can you reword this?. I don't recognize this as true but also maybe I can't read.

[Bellaphant]

My vote was almost all about the naked vote with no explanation and like 5% pressure

[Bellaphant]

(I tried to call you!)

Do you always move your vote around this much?

[Bellaphant]

You seem quite worried about a vote that would've needed what, 14 votes to be a lim?

[Bellaphant]

I guess I don't understand your key point? It feels like you are saying your wagon was scummy for....reasons, but you haven't really communicated the why, the who... I guess I'm normally used to being able to follow you and I'm finding it really hard This game.

P-edit also partly that. Ceph kicked off at their wagon top

[Bellaphant]

Your thinking just feels really divorced from what was happening around it, like...who were you the counter to, what was happening with frog/ceph, why did your lack of contributions stick out more than say...toogs/corwins/whatever, rather just onto discrediting it. I used worried as it feels like you are using it a bit to avoid progressing the game, it feels backwards focused rather than forward.

Also, your response reminds me a lot of the response to my shit vca.

[Bellaphant]

It feels strange to me that you seem to be not really engaging with the fact that your counter was ceph, who you also don't want people to vote. I actually share 2/3 of your other scum reads, so this point bugs me.

[Bellaphant]

Mine?

[Bellaphant]

Because I don't think that's what happened? It is if you take away all the context, yes, but not in reality. I think that's why we are frustrating each other - you are telling me something you see as true, but I am also trying to tell you something true. You weren't 'my best scum read' for 25 pages, I'm frustrated with myself that I didn't vote ceph way before I unvoted you, but 25 pages here can also happen while we are asleep! I had a pile of scum reads, some of which we share. I dunno if people's reads list was more ordered than mine, in which case if you were 'bottom' of everyone's I guess it's a bit of a safe read, but even that isn't massively scummy, I think a few people have been borrowing those reads list for inspiration at least.

It isn't even 'naked votes ' - I've already said it was because of the feeling around it, the sneakiness, which is the bit I think Roden is trying to highlight too , that votes happened in response to a series of things.

I feel like you are being...blinkered? I understand your issue but it feels very off without the context. Plus, it feels a bit like your posts about vasex, which both you and corwin used to drag the game back, which is maybe why I'm reacting so badly.

I agree that there's some issues on your wagon/people's continued scum read, but I disagree that they came out of nowhere. I spoke to you, I unvoted, but this recent block of posting has made me worried again and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to understand why, seeing as a lot of it is to do with you specific to wider context?

I also think there are wider issues with the readslists.

[Bellaphant]

Friday, really early morning, the wagons are
5 Frogsterking (JohnnyFarrar, Roden, Cephrir, Lukewarm, Galron)

4 Cephrir (BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell)

2 Galron (Bellaphant, The toad)
2 BlueBloodedToffee (Dunnstral, Cat Scratch Fever)
2 T-Bone (PenguinPower, Enchant)

Couple of hours later, the ceph wagon comes up. By bedtime, that wagon vanishes and you and frog have one vote different.
Sat pm, ceph wagon back, sat bedtime you are back down to two votes.

So...I understand why you would say scum could take advantage/sit on that wagon, but i would agree more if you were a leading wagon for a much longer chuck of time/the wagons weren't so shifty, etc. Same with the '25 pages ' - it's not a long time. This is why I said worries in the first place because it doesn't look that impactful.

[Bellaphant]

?? Now I'm sad /and/ confused

[Bellaphant]

Quotes would help yeah

P-edit at least I was a useful punching bag!

[Bellaphant]

I think you are thinking a lot harder about that post than I was I was just pointing out that at first I felt frog was a bit everywhere too, but that when I looked at their explanations I didn't feel it was scummy. I think the market clearly is there for a frog wagon, considering we haven't had a wagon over take it, it was just Roden posted something that I felt correlated with a similar reaction I'd had. I then felt like I had a useful convo with Roden out of it, which to me was more impactful than anything about frog

P-edit basically that.

[Bellaphant]

I mean that didn't happen in that post, or... anywhere. *Shrug*

[Bellaphant]

(I tried to call you!)

Do you always move your vote around this much?

Not always, only when I'm not really sure what I want.

I'd like to know how you're reading BBT's current page content btw.

yeah, that wasn't toned, it just feels very noticeable from you and I don't really remember you doing it a bunch on other games.

With bbt I'm just a bit ....bemused? Their reaction to me was massively out of proportion (horrible post, what the fuck), but their climb down was super quick too? I don't know whether it's more town or scum - would scum have contit to argue, or just realised that I was presenting the truth? I am worried they haven't responded to the few things I said about how it reminded me of their scum game with me.

[Bellaphant]

@bbt, I could vote toad and penguin. Although I agree with both toad and Malcolm that if Roden scum reads them they should probably ask question to them!

[Bellaphant]

I want you to ... acknowledge that you waved some specific red flags. I don't think it's as generic as meta - it literally just happened.

[Bellaphant]

bluebloodedtoffee is obvscum cmon guys!!

Do you think bbts response to me is more town or scum? Specifically the climb down.

[Bellaphant]

@t bone, that's ...weird. I don't care about frog in this convo - I think he's town, the wagon on them is boring, I do care about ceph because bbt was defending him, to me. The ceph and bbt wagon both change a fair bit over a short time, which is what I was talking about. (also, I literally say frog/ceph?)

Toad and t bone are throwing shade at me for stuff that is demonstrably not happening, it's frustrating

[Bellaphant]

Penguin feels like Johnny insofar as there's a high post count there but not necessarily a lot of content of note. Worth noting though that Penguin appears to be V/LA for the next 6 days so we're likely not going to get much from pushes on the slot other than gauging opinion on what we've seen so far.

I'm kinda feeling this but also feel like I've read the Johnny portion from someone else..hmmm

[Bellaphant]

I thought the +scum thing was at me? If not, cool.

@ t bone , ignoring it is such a weird idea when the vc is right there. It wasn't relevant to the conversation.

[Bellaphant]

Ok, I think maybe it's a semantic thing? My point was wagons were fluid and bbt is/was a bit weird a ceph. It's actually weirder that the frog wagon has been so unfluid?

[Bellaphant]

@tsly, you disagree? I think cat evaluates a ton of slots, but also sees some stuff where they disagree but also take the time to work out if the thought process behind it comes from a solveu town mindset. Plus, they were sharing a bunch of my thoughts - the ceph wagon, toad, etc. I disliked t bones reaction a lot, but also I think I'm just a bit clashy with t bone in general

[Bellaphant]

I can't work out what I think about the bbt thing. It's mainly what oth said yhY it felt like they weren't expecting me to fight back /and/ be right

[Bellaphant]

Hey @luke, why am I red for you? Can you come chat to me, I felt like we could have similar thoughts before (even when you were scum!) Some questions from you might help clarify my thinking overall.

I think this got missed too

[Bellaphant]

It's one of those that makes me try to link it to flavour though. I don't know enough about ircher but it feels unlikely for rh9

[Bellaphant]

I do think Luke is town but I think their point about the reads list and their town reads to be a bit contrived, but I think that I'm just very wary of the lists being used in bad faith/I don't actually think anyone is 100% confident in their reads in a game this big.

I didn't get much from maths' posting, which is strange because last game with them I was adamant about them being town to a very unbella-like point of intransigence. My read on puppets flipped about three times in the last 15 pages, I think I need to iso them without the noise of the rest of the thread. From my recollection math is better at reading Titus than vice versa.

I disliked tbones elim list (at least half of it) but I'm wondering if I'm just never going to get into the same vibes as them.

Think I need to iso rad too. I thought their initial response to puppets was fine but then their tone shifted a bit in a way that felt new to me.

@pooky, are we meant to be updating our readlist periodically as a whole?

[Bellaphant]

@luke, can't quote strip at the moment but the middle of 2731, yoy are talking about everyone town reading you and how that affects your perception of what the scum team is doing. I'm probably projecting my own issues with playing in a large but both you and bbt have used the multi reads list to justify their position (worse from bbt than you). Reading back its probably not significant, I just feel like scum could really easily spew a lot of 'noise' about a set of reads that are already out of date/unreliable-ish to start with. I think being that aware of peoples own reads in you is also a little more...self aware than I was expecting: again, this might be a me issue because Ive only really registered like rad, klick, you, CSF and bbts read on me, because they are top of mind at the moment.

The more I think this through the worse I feel about bbt, actually. And larges ( and Me )

[Bellaphant]

You might not be good, but I think Titus is quicker to push you as town than you are. My meta is limited though.

I was talking about the game we recently finished when hq was yelling at me for not voting you when I knew you were town. It was based on our team mafia game. At the moment I don't have a strong opinion on your slot.

I think I have quite a few low key scum reads but nothing glaring. I'm happier with my town reads than I was, so I think I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of posting. There were 20+ pages overnight and when I caught up I didn't find a lot of it helpful for sorting people.

[Bellaphant]

Just metadived Corwin and BBT and based on that, feel even stronger that Bell’s Corwin take is correct and BBT could possibly be scum here. Whomever said he sounds the same is either alignment - Idk what you’re smoking. Town!BBT is off the charts townie in his towngames.

I feel more confident on Math!town because scum!Corwin is a major tryhard but town!Corwin gets really annoyed when pushed.

Pooky, move Ceph, MT, Mathblade to town and Rad to null, thanks,

Bbt would hard disagree with you here and has been quite loudly proclaiming that just because he just acted to me exactly the same way he acted in our just finished newbie where he was scum, it doesn't mean anything. I'd be curious about your take on our set to.

[Bellaphant]

I meant about them. I'm on a bit of a hole abt how I feel about it

[Bellaphant]

I think Titus is signing?

[Bellaphant]

I only have limited experience with corwin but he was irritated and not try hard in the newbie where he was scum z- he got pissed off at vasex, muddled up reads and dissapeared in elo.

[Bellaphant]

Cool, rads still town.

[Bellaphant]

Yes. I wavered a bit but I don't think their interaction with puppets was actually scummy, I think they did get a bit.... tilted, which is new for what I perceive rads town game to be, but I could see it as being a fairly natural progression of playstyle ,- I think they've had more personality this game anyway. I liked that their approach to Malcolm was open minded.

Why,.do you disagree?

P-edit I've found the puppets slot hard to read, so I could see rads thought process.
P-edit your tone did shift but I think it's fine/a good thing. I think you did sometimes come across as a little condescending in the newbie, partly through circumstance !you had to be right ) but I still think your overall approach to the game is in line with the thought processes of town!rad.

I don't think you should town read me just because I town read you tho

[Bellaphant]

...I had to try and post that six times, I hate you all

[Bellaphant]

That's not me

[Bellaphant]

...(that's a little condescending )

Also, people are really a lot more aware of their reads status than I am, generally? That's you, Luke and bbt that's bought it up.

[Bellaphant]

I dunno, like...pooky was pretty heavily town read, including by me early game, and now I too am just not feeling it - but that could be scummy, according to you?

P-edit I feel like you kinda just answered this.

[Bellaphant]

Mine again?

[Bellaphant]

....learning to count would also be good.

[Bellaphant]

*hugs* just in case

[Bellaphant]

Rad
Cat
Frog
Luke
Klick
Dancing puppets


Scum

Galron
Dunn
Pp
Ceph
Bell


Null
Poorly
Enchant
Tbone
Mala
Oof the hook
Cytosine and Guanine
Malcolm
Math
Dweelee
Johnny
Rce
Bbt
Roden
Taly

[Bellaphant]

@luke, fair, I feel better about it from talking to rad anyway. @titus, why?

@bbt, I read their posts and I just...ew. I don't really see them engaging, Ans like... ceph is definitely posting but I can't get my read around what they think. Dwelee is similar but they aren't really here. I don't think it's just playstyle because I'm willing to accept that tbone could be town, who I have similar Ish issues with, because they actually talked to me reasonably about the semantics thing.

[Bellaphant]

Klick is just on their first few posts. My null section probably does hi some town in, and probably some scum, but because pooky wants three colours I wanted a town group I was most confident in

[Bellaphant]

...(that's a little condescending )

Also, people are really a lot more aware of their reads status than I am, generally? That's you, Luke and bbt that's bought it up.

Shit was I coming across as condescending? Sorry that wasn't my intent at all!

I'm very aware of the reads that came from pooky's collection and I think the heavy town reads absolutely need to be the focus of scum here. Any possible slip up of heavy town reads should be immediately pounced on by scum if town doesn't do it for them. Not saying it necessarily makes players who pounce scum, but it needs to happen one way or the other. So I'm definitely interested in focusing on people who may opportunistically jump at me for my DP read and the fact that you could but didn't screams townie to me.

i don't agree with this; i expect the approach scum are taking to you/luke is going to be to shoot you in the face, not dig a hole for themselves trying to get you scumread

I felt they were genuine, and happy and chill. husband points?

[Bellaphant]

Malcolm, ceph, bbt, bell @ oth four very idek slots for me

[Bellaphant]

I expect them to be weirder.

Is this about math?

[Bellaphant]

You might not be good, but I think Titus is quicker to push you as town than you are. My meta is limited though.

I was talking about the game we recently finished when hq was yelling at me for not voting you when I knew you were town. It was based on our team mafia game. At the moment I don't have a strong opinion on your slot.

I think I have quite a few low key scum reads but nothing glaring. I'm happier with my town reads than I was, so I think I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of posting. There were 20+ pages overnight and when I caught up I didn't find a lot of it helpful for sorting people.

@math, this was my response to you..I didn't ask why you disliked my post so much.

[Bellaphant]

@ math I don't know what your issue is. Can you ...ask me some questions or something, instead of just telling me I'm shit? Kk thnx.

[Bellaphant]

Not being able to have a clear read on you. Team mafia Ans the game we just did, I lock Towness you beyond much doubt, I don't feel the same way here. I was starting to in your catch up tonight but dancing puppets is right, you starting to lash out a bit at everyone has given me pause.

P-edit exactly, what Luke said, it wasn't hard.

[Bellaphant]

@johnny, don't have one, would be shocked if it didn't involve at least one you, mala, ceph or pp. Then maybe bell.

P-edit I don't want you to be Bella like? I'm saying that I'm surprised at how difficult I am finding it to read you this game.

[Bellaphant]

20 Years? I think that just broke my brain.

[Bellaphant]

@johnny, don't have one, would be shocked if it didn't involve at least one you, mala, ceph or pp. Then maybe bell.

P-edit I don't want you to be Bella like? I'm saying that I'm surprised at how difficult I am finding it to read you this game.

Can you explain a bit about how you are reading me right now?

Is it ok if I do this in the morning? It'd really help me actually If you could give me a few sentences about where your head in the game is overall - what do you think is going on with the wagons, any replacements that have shifted your thinking, anything that's stood out as particularly scumny/towny, etc.

[Bellaphant]

@johnny, any thoughts on my response? Why just ask me?

[Bellaphant]

alright i'll spend the next 30 minutes updating the spreadsheet - I'm kind of lazy ngl.

here's where it's at right now:



give me your updates.

i posted a second version a bit ago and i don't think it got changed

Me too

[Bellaphant]

Rad
Cat
Frog
Luke
Klick
Dancing puppets


Scum

Galron
Dunn
Pp
Ceph
Bell


Null
Poorly
Enchant
Tbone
Mala
Oof the hook
Cytosine and Guanine
Malcolm
Math
Dweelee
Johnny
Rce
Bbt
Roden
Taly

Do I need to change the for ay?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: roden

[Bellaphant]

^ is all fine.

[Bellaphant]

Their early posts were just town. They've not done a huge amount since but I know we've been ridiculous busy (I am 'night posting' when you guys are posting because I'm up with the baby). Things should calm down for both us after the weekend so I'm hoping for an uptick in content

I did like their response to me about them moving their vote, it felt natural and not like... performative or defensive, whereas I think scum klick could've just shaded me for even asking.

[Bellaphant]

RCA, talk to me about mala and bell?

I know I need to dive Dunn

[Bellaphant]

That's what I'm saying, I think I'm just wrong - I want to iso you because part of my brain just went 'scum' and I want to relook at that. I know that's shit but it's true.

[Bellaphant]

I feel like enchant is almost claiming but not. I guess distancing could exist but it feels pretty silly.

[Bellaphant]

Dwlee99, T-Bone, Malakittens, Best Bird...pooky

I could see this as being a pool where his claim could actually be true.

[Bellaphant]

I think it could 100% be in the null reads.

[Bellaphant]

I am of the opinion that Bernard should claim if he exists.

If no one claims masons with Roden, we kill Roden.

If someone does, we kill Dunn

This is fine

[Bellaphant]

Dwlee99, T-Bone, Malakittens, Best Bird...pooky

I could see this as being a pool where his claim could actually be true.

Not pooky, but like I can see the logic for hiding masons in this pile.

[Bellaphant]

I think you aren't being open to the reasons roden's claim could be true, Dunn.

[Bellaphant]

...why would mafia not want to cast doubt on someone who could be confirmed town??

[Bellaphant]

...why would mafia not want to cast doubt on someone who could be confirmed town??

I have literally never seen a mafia shade a mason claim on d1 like ever.

at least not in my memory

But roles don't flip, so it's safer, no?

Or have I just misunderstood roles v flavour and stuff?

[Bellaphant]

...that's what I've been saying but a lot clearer.

[Bellaphant]

Pooky claimed Mr eko

[Bellaphant]

Oh, no, I don't think that.

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Bellaphant]

Also wtf is an 'active poster '? Basically a third of the game have 100-200 posts but there are a bunch wildly above that and a good cluster below .

[Bellaphant]

Spoiler:

Mathblade are you willing to vote Ceph for your VCA info or whatever?

I don’t think Ceph is scum. I would need someone to talk with me about why he is. I think you’re a much better vote to figure out what happened at day open.

Are you sure that on some level you aren't reacting emotionally to having a 0% success rate on determining my alignment?

I am pretty poor at hunting everyone so I fail to see your point here?

I think there is something quirky about the way you read the game which causes you to be <random in the initial stages of the game, and then become rapidly >random as the game progresses, and the consequence is that other players are sometimes less willing to listen because of the bad early reads.

Rather than be resigned to it I think you can try to overcome it. One way you can try to overcome the early game weakness is by trusting others. For example, it's blatantly clear to me that Ceph is attempting to pocket you now by telling you what (he thinks) you want to hear.

That’s what I was doing then I got ran up for not hyperposting.

Well keep trying IMO. It's not unusual to experience setbacks when you do the right thing, especially if it's a change from the usual.

So hence if people disagree and elim Roden it has to have scum backing which proves my active scum theory.

What is the active scum hypothesis?

That scum are among the active players.

Generally town left to its own devices find each other eventually or have a wagon by now. 2 non RVS wagons (me and Roden) in 150-200 pages is not a sign of healthy town.

@Math

How many scum do you believe we can expect are in the active posters? I think there is at least one.

Depends on which elim unfortunately. I’d guess 2 at least. One in US timezones and one not at minimum.

Like what is the point of this? It's just nuts

P-edit ceph does seem to be agreeing with him

[Bellaphant]

shocking

[Bellaphant]

My problem is the way it happened. Like ..there was an obvious block of people who it could've been, and it was, and when this was pointed out it was t even acknowledged.

[Bellaphant]

Jumping on 'hes lying ' rather than 'masons may not want to obv mason day one' just feels very ....take advantage-y (I have forgotten words).

@pooky, I don't like your post but I don't have words right now. Better tomorrow

[Bellaphant]

Mine still aren't there

[Bellaphant]

Rad
Cat
Frog
Luke
Klick
Dancing puppets


Scum

Galron
Dunn
Pp
Ceph
Bell


Null
Poorly
Enchant
Tbone
Mala
Oof the hook
Cytosine and Guanine
Malcolm
Math
Dweelee
Johnny
Rce
Bbt
Roden
Taly

Do I need to change the for ay?

@pooky

[Bellaphant]

Mine still aren't there

hey! while you're here, can you explain your dunnstral scumread?

I was nearly done iso-ing them when the masons thing kicked off and like....their iso is fine. It was a gut thing that I didn't re-evaluate, possibly because I find them a bit aggressive.

Last night I hated their position around 'roden must be lying ' when that was really obviously not the only answer, but with a bit of distance I think their refusal to re-evaluate 'on the hop' was more to do with them genuinely thinking the had a solve - why would scum push conf town. For a bit last night I did wonder if they were scum who though they could get away with it because of the info around the flips but I think that's a bit tin hatty. Also, I've seen from other people that refusal to re-evaluate can be town, rather than scum, I just struggle because I more naturally town read open mindedness.

Re&reading the masons thing (and their position around klick) I feel worse about dancing puppets and am just going to leave dunnstral as null (maybe town, it's not a slot in actually confident with my abilities to read so just isn't a day one issue - I think I'm pre disposed to scum read some of the things the slot is doing that maybe aren't ai.)
@pooky, Dunn can be null

P-edit I actually liked some of bbts posting around the masons last night, was definitely his towniest spate of posts all game

[Bellaphant]

Hi Malcolm, we are awake together and i change my mind on your alignment literally half way through your posts sometimes. Can you throw a question or two my way?

[Bellaphant]

Johnny could very easily be scum . I don't see them making much a thread impact and the only thing that sticks out to me is that they seem to be around to get a few page tops but not massively enagge with anything else. Tbf I basically think the same about mala and I get the vibe that a fair few people are town reading her! Johnny is worse than mala for me because I can tell by his post count that he has content but my mind just slides off the slot.

I just spoke to cat about Dunn. I think Dunn is a player i will always have trouble reading. It worries me that some of my scum reads are based on 'tone', but I don't think it's a big an issue as I think : for example, I'm starting to town read t bone!

With you I read your posts and go 'yes, no, what? Yes...' in the same post. This happened a lot around your corwin stuff. It's odd to me because I find most players, especially the vocal ones in this game, are very straight to the point so it's easier to just follow and then say 'yes/no/that's scummy'.

@frog, I hard town read them in the very early game for meta, the thing I found towny has disappeared so would be down, yeah.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: ceph

[Bellaphant]

(more than happy to vote Johnny)

[Bellaphant]

Okay lads, we can stop trotting out Ceph, Dunn, Johnny, and Math votes, they are all town sorry to say. Please be original.

Accurate!

When did you change your mind back on ceph?

Dunn is probably town, Dunn maybe , Johnny prob scum ceph scum.

[Bellaphant]

Like these list should contain at minimum 2 wolves, probably not all:
Math
Hook
Dunn
Puppets
Rad
CSF
Frog

Can you expand on this? It has some hard town reads and a few ?? Reads for me, but I wouldn't put any of these into a massive scum pool.

[Bellaphant]

Johnny could very easily be scum . I don't see them making much a thread impact and the only thing that sticks out to me is that they seem to be around to get a few page tops but not massively enagge with anything else. Tbf I basically think the same about mala and I get the vibe that a fair few people are town reading her! Johnny is worse than mala for me because I can tell by his post count that he has content but my mind just slides off the slot.

I just spoke to cat about Dunn. I think Dunn is a player i will always have trouble reading. It worries me that some of my scum reads are based on 'tone', but I don't think it's a big an issue as I think : for example, I'm starting to town read t bone!

With you I read your posts and go 'yes, no, what? Yes...' in the same post. This happened a lot around your corwin stuff. It's odd to me because I find most players, especially the vocal ones in this game, are very straight to the point so it's easier to just follow and then say 'yes/no/that's scummy'.

@frog,

I hard town read them in the very early game for meta, the thing I found towny has disappeared so would be down, yeah.

Thanks for realize that Frog hasn’t been making Townie posts lately and as I said to me they feel wolfy.

Sorry to disappoint, this was to frog, about enchant..I think frog is lock town.

[Bellaphant]

. The second Dunn there should say math, obv.

[Bellaphant]

I scum read galron and I don't town read drap, sorry.

[Bellaphant]

wheres best bird at LOL

@mod, prod please

[Bellaphant]

wheres best bird at LOL

@mod, prod please

He is on V/LA right?

Good point!

[Bellaphant]

If only the ones getting pushed by scum is gonna vote scum and no one else voting wolf, we aren’t gonna win this game.

We need more people.

I don’t understand why Bella, Frog, CSF are scum?

I'm scum because frog is, obviously.

[Bellaphant]

....it's really cosy in Luke's pocket

[Bellaphant]

C and g might be town for their reads maybe

[Bellaphant]

LVOTE: mala

[Bellaphant]

Are you all high? Am I high? I'm town reading t bone again, this happened last night when I was knackered too.

[Bellaphant]

I also have a harder town read on Dunn than I maybe should have.

Are we voting mala or johnny? Please can this day end before 300 pages.

[Bellaphant]

@ProfessorDrapion

Can you post a full read list with explanations?

I can do his for you. We are all wolves because you are a wolf.

[Bellaphant]

Just so you know I am way more dangerous as scum than Frogster could ever be. So if you come at the king you best not miss.

Who says you aren’t being dangerous?

If you think I could be a buddy with another scumread you should prioritize my elimination. Scum!Bone already has MiLo/eLo mapped out at this point.

Give me a little time I can write some fanfic on how scum!Bone absolutely trounces this game.

Can we write real lost fanfic? It would be like being 16 again.

[Bellaphant]

I also have a harder town read on Dunn than I maybe should have.

Are we voting mala or johnny? Please can this day end before 300 pages.

If your vote is between those two, Mala.

I'm 90% sure I'm already voting mala, scum.



...I'm going to bed.

[Bellaphant]

Please know it's done with love! I'm fulfilling a promise!

Spoiler: How Bone Trounces Lost Mafia: A Blueprint

So knowing what I know about the game now, these are easy choices. Anyway first off, we limmed someone 100 pages ago, letting the game get to page 250 is nonsense and this is my fanfiction. Either Ceph, Dunn, or Frogster, I'd have let one of them go by now. Since this is by the Professor's request, we'll say it was Frogster and he was my scum buddy. Well of course, there's no way I'd pass up on eliminating a scum buddy on day 1. I would have become a strong, but not the strongest voice on that train. I'd probably sit somewhere behind Luke as the second most townread player too. Anyway the night 1 kill is easy, DNA gets done dirty. Why you may ask? Because they with their post restriction, are an unknown. I would also kill anyone who got replaced over night, because again, I have my perfect endgame constructed already from the current players and don't want that changed. Matt already came in and ruined what probably would have been my preferred plan of letting one of my top townreads get eliminated. But that's okay, this is a heroic tale, and part of the hero's journey is struggle.

For my end game I'd have DP/Math there for sure as an easy pocket and potential mislim at the end (only need one of them to fill the niche). I would take some of my town reads too, I'd probably have to give up one of like Johnny, Ceph, Dunn to mislims at some point. Chances are I'd lose another scum buddy because of night action usage, ideally around Day 4 or 5, but I could adapt if we got there earlier. After DNA I'd probably kill off players who have me as like their 3rd or 4th scumread, if any exist at this point. I imagine by like Day 3 or 4 that could be come an issue. I'd be lucky if after Frog's scum flip someone still scum read me, because then they'd be an easy lim. So in this case that's the Professor gone Day 3 at the latest. I'd have one but not both masons killed, leave the other alive towards the end game. I only need 2 viable mislims in the end game. Maybe I'd keep around a secondary scum read like Bell or CSF or someone in that range. I also need to give my remaining scum buddies and the remaining townies one more viable mislim. Anyone who professes to use VCA or Meta is an absolute MUST for the end game imo, because by this point they will be questioning their meta reads on the players they left alive (why isn't Pooky dead, am I looking at the wrong scum game?) or some poor townie is going to look bad to a VCAer come Day 6/7. So there's a little leeway as to whom this person is. (Though if Pooky actually kept up on the reads grid I'd have to let him go via NK). But I'd definitely bring those types of players and their counterparts. Also gotta bring at least one, if not two, low post volume players. I imagine one of those low volume posters would be a scum buddy anyway, so a 1v1 between the two of them would also be a viable end game move. I also might NK people still fighting for the pagetops out of spite.

So there's my basic blueprint, in case you want to start framing me, scum team.

If I said I would bring you to the end game it doesn't mean I think you're a bad player, please don't be upset. It means I just think you'd fit well for what I'd try to accomplish. I think everyone is pretty great at mafia overall and plays to the best of their abilities always! I don't want to answer specific questions that might lead to hurt feelings because I suggested I would try to mislim you or other wise use your play for X reason.

<3

[Bellaphant]

I haven't read the last thirty pages, wtf is happening

[Bellaphant]

Rce is town, who is rce voting?!

[Bellaphant]

I can see vig on frog, but considering how the black smoke worked I don't think we can 100% rule out third party.

The kills don't do loads to change my reads - although it does amuse me that professor drapions whole reason for me being scum yesterday was that frog was my scum partner and I'm still getting voted by them!

Feel better about Roden and worse about Johnny from their day phase opening.

[Bellaphant]

Also, we get to hear from c and g today?

[Bellaphant]

They had a post restriction, although they seemed to have broken it.

Sorry, I shouldn't post at 3am, I briefly forgot masons! It's nice to know that Bella's sleepy gut was on the right track
@taly, you asked about reads. My strongest scum read right now is still Johnny, I think I'm mellowing on bell, I need to see a lot more from best bird. I don't know how I feel about math but I thought his bbt point was at least interesting. My big read shift at the end of yesterday was that t bone was town, it's possible off the hook is too.

I don't know how to read professor drapion - yesterday I was scum with frog, and today their scum reads are weird. I also think the consistent push on CSF is ridiculous, as they are my strongest town read.

The klick replacement is still town. I think dancing puppets is town but their read on klick at the end of yesterday was garbage and looked opportunitistic in places.

[Bellaphant]

Tbf, are they the only person who did this?

Dunn's hood reports gives me town feels for Malcolm.

[Bellaphant]

Math doesn't feel like he did in our last two games where I was convinced he was town, but I was asked to meta him in one of them and found him inconsistent throughout. It says something about me that I find them an easier town read when they are being adamantly ridiculous.

[Bellaphant]

@ Malcolm, I noped out of the rad/dp thing when there were like five pages of people deciding it was scumny that rads read changed, when it really wasn't. In fact my read was wavering on dp around the same time and suddenly that fact seemed controversial?

Re: the gladiator, I was out of my depth here - I didn't have much of a read on Taly, I'd been saying that ceph was scum for ages to what felt like a fair amount of push back, but the gladiate itself felt town, although the target seemed a bit weird. So I think quite a few people's position around it was a.bit 'whiplash-y'.

CSF is still obv town.

Re math - when I've seen him be so odd, though, it's rarely been about himself, more mech or other people.

[Bellaphant]

Is professor drapion always like this?

[Bellaphant]

Who's he, dp? Pd?

[Bellaphant]

I was asking about 8189

[Bellaphant]

I don't understand your last section - do you believe the post restriction? Do you not think it's weird that it hasn't been penalised? I find it weird that no one thought it was worth asking about the penalty

[Bellaphant]

Who were you talking about in respt to em earlier, puppets?

[Bellaphant]

They had a post restriction, although they seemed to have broken it.

Sorry, I shouldn't post at 3am, I briefly forgot masons! It's nice to know that Bella's sleepy gut was on the right track
@taly, you asked about reads. My strongest scum read right now is still Johnny, I think I'm mellowing on bell, I need to see a lot more from best bird. I don't know how I feel about math but I thought his bbt point was at least interesting. My big read shift at the end of yesterday was that t bone was town, it's possible off the hook is too.

I don't know how to read professor drapion - yesterday I was scum with frog, and today their scum reads are weird. I also think the consistent push on CSF is ridiculous, as they are my strongest town read.

The klick replacement is still town. I think dancing puppets is town but their read on klick at the end of yesterday was garbage and looked opportunitistic in places.

I think he’s town so I don’t understand this?

I can't find what I said about you either but I was sure I said it!

Yeah, I was fine with the post restriction but not having a consequence/knowing it is weird.

[Bellaphant]

Response to me. I can't type and I'm not asleep

[Bellaphant]

They had a post restriction, although they seemed to have broken it.

Sorry, I shouldn't post at 3am, I briefly forgot masons! It's nice to know that Bella's sleepy gut was on the right track
@taly, you asked about reads. My strongest scum read right now is still Johnny, I think I'm mellowing on bell, I need to see a lot more from best bird. I don't know how I feel about math but I thought his bbt point was at least interesting. My big read shift at the end of yesterday was that t bone was town, it's possible off the hook is too.

I don't know how to read professor drapion - yesterday I was scum with frog, and today their scum reads are weird. I also think the consistent push on CSF is ridiculous, as they are my strongest town read.

The klick replacement is still town. I think dancing puppets is town but their read on klick at the end of yesterday was garbage and looked opportunitistic in places.

I think he’s town so I don’t understand this?

I can't find what I said about you either but I was sure I said it!

Yeah, I was fine with the post restriction but not having a consequence/knowing it is weird.

Who's he here, from you?

[Bellaphant]

I tried to re-ISO Bella but couldn’t find that post but I’m pretty sure she made it - about her flipping her read on us three times that is.

I’m still not sure what to make of Math but T-Bone is looking better today. \_0_/

I tried to re-ISO Bella but couldn’t find that post but I’m pretty sure she made it - about her flipping her read on us three times that is.

I’m still not sure what to make of Math but T-Bone is looking better today. \_0_/

Idk IMO their votes are ass.

Voted My slot with RCE, Voted Cephrir but never touched them during the Gladiate I believe which is strange and feels like laid back wolf, They also were one of the mason pushers yet they for some reason “Forgot about the Mason Claim” like huh?

Is rce scum? I scum read your slot before you replaced in. I think your pushes are rubbish but I'm trying to reach out to people who know you because I am trying not to get conf!biased on you. I wasn't here during the gladiate, but would've been on ceph. I was wrong on that one, quite loudly.

I wasn't a mason pusher? Specifically the opposite - I was one of the first people to say that Dunn was wrong about the claim being fake. I forgot briefly because it was the middle of the night.

Also, having strong reads isn't scummy, from me or tbone. Why isn't it scumny that dp has lock Towned Taly? Like ...your pushes are so inconsistent I find it hard to take them particularly seriously: yesterday I was scum with frog and nothing about your read has changed?

[Bellaphant]

I could still vote enchant.

@dp, I felt like at the end of yesterday you were willing to wagon klick to save Taly but I can't find what annoyed me about it in your iso. It's really hot though. Anyway, I just don't know how to take the professor?

[Bellaphant]

I could still vote enchant.

@dp, I felt like at the end of yesterday you were willing to wagon klick to save Taly but I can't find what annoyed me about it in your iso. It's really hot though. Anyway, I just don't know how to take the professor?

No, wtf are you talking about? I was never onboard with that and I unvoted him after Titus voted him.

Hahaha. I knew someone voted him! I also thought you thought he was town, so that's what my issue was.

[Bellaphant]

On everything else I haven't had massively different reactions when reading her or you, but the klick thing really threw me. It probably doesn't mean anything but it felt stand out to me, does that make sense?

[Bellaphant]

Deputy cultists was buggy

[Bellaphant]

Mine

If you are town, you should scumread Enchant and possibly Bella as their votes kept the conversation on TvT wagons.

~Titus

What does this mean?

[Bellaphant]

... professor drapion will be telling everyone you two are scum now.

The masons are Roden And dweelee.

[Bellaphant]

Dunn said they were confirmable or something? Maybe?

[Bellaphant]

... professor drapion will be telling everyone you two are scum now.

The masons are Roden And dweelee.

TF is this accusation, start reading the fucking thread as I also TR Puppet.

... maybe this is the issue. This. Was. A. Joke. Two people forgot the masons, which you seemed to think was scummy. Why are you so angry at me?

[Bellaphant]

But on the other hand it makes me want to shout at people: "THEN WHY ARE YOU NOT SCUM READING ME"

My gut reaction is to feel like they keep coming from scum, because it is not real thoughts being applied to the player list evenly.

But then it has come from too many slots.

So, I just feel confused.

Can you elaborate on this bit? I was following before.

[Bellaphant]

... professor drapion will be telling everyone you two are scum now.

The masons are Roden And dweelee.

TF is this accusation, start reading the fucking thread as I also TR Puppet.

... maybe this is the issue. This. Was. A. Joke. Two people forgot the masons, which you seemed to think was scummy. Why are you so angry at me?

It wasn’t about that, I wanted your responses, a test on how your gonna respond to the question.
How did you forget who the mason was when you pushed them and the push stopped.

?? This didn't happen. Show me where I pushed masons.

[Bellaphant]

Mine

If you are town, you should scumread Enchant and possibly Bella as their votes kept the conversation on TvT wagons.

~Titus

What does this mean?

While we are on stuff that doesn't make sense is really like this answered

[Bellaphant]

Ok, yes my votes were: Ceph, galron, bbt, ceph, Roden and mala but I'm not sure how that ...links to anything? I'd be shocked if only me and enchant voted two town?

(Also, if that's drapions evidence for my mason push I'll giggle)

P-edit Johnny's post looks interesting

[Bellaphant]

Friendly neighbour is confirmable, so it does make me more concerned about their reads than their elim status, yes.

P-edit I did like the picture with the pgo!

[Bellaphant]

@luke, read your spoiler before your conclusion and we came to the same thing. I think bbt flip is a tonne of info, based on what you've done. *shrug*

[Bellaphant]

@ c and g, can you give us some more words about your read generally?

[Bellaphant]

Blue blooded toffee.

[Bellaphant]

Oh, that was a joke. It's hot here.

[Bellaphant]

If I was tbone this post would be voting you.

[Bellaphant]

Are we not waiting for their replacement at all? Like, I could vote math I tend to want to wait.

[Bellaphant]

That's literally how klick plays.




Also, you've just proved a bunch of people voted together. Like they were playing mafia.

[Bellaphant]

Like I'm not shocked that particularly I'm on wagons that two of my strongest town reads are on. Maths original point on you wasn't great but you sure have been throwing a lot at the wall since.

[Bellaphant]

In response to bbt saying that me, klick and CSF were on a lot of wagons.

[Bellaphant]

? Because they were in your list?

[Bellaphant]

You mentioned five people, separated out. Two of them are my strongest reads..so I mentioned them..I'm not sure why that needs a follow up q?

[Bellaphant]

Klick, me and CSF town read each other and voted together a lot. I think klick also felt better about pooky than I did.

[Bellaphant]

Klick, me and CSF town read each other and voted together a lot. I think klick also felt better about pooky than I did.

I voted with my town reads/my town reads voted with each other/with me.

I'm trying not to be reactionary right now: I don't think it's true that you and pd are scum who've decided together to make shit up and swear at me but it sure feels it right now.

[Bellaphant]

I am getting tired of all the emotional baggage people are directing at me this game.
I'm not your punching bag.

Mood

[Bellaphant]

I for one am shocked that people could be voting together in a large theme game that requires 14 votes to evict off the island when the game is 350 pages long and that the flips are only town so far.

it must be an evil conspiracy and we should definitely maybe root out the perpetrators starting with that cute puppy over there

[Bellaphant]

Yes @bbt

[Bellaphant]

Corwin wasn't that scumny. I seem to remember the Roden votes coming in reaction to a particular thing. Mala and Johnny being present enough for page tops but not for content was the tipping point for me there.


I think klick went town scum town on ceph?

@oth, tell me why. Also, I misread the bit in Luke's case about puppets, that wasn't in the conclusion I drew.

[Bellaphant]

Just gone back to check the Roden thing - we needed wagons Ans I think the game state was there were a few people who were 'shrug!scum' and Roden was one of them. Think Johnny and enchant were also in that pool.

[Bellaphant]

Bbt, what changed?

[Bellaphant]

I did, I just didn't clock the shift from last night to just now? I maybe missed something

[Bellaphant]

That's what I read, it just felt a bit of a. 180 without much context? Maybe more words would help.

[Bellaphant]

What would be the benefit of a fake posy restrictions though? Unless both the neighbors are scum, which feels pretty odd.

P-edit that makes a bit more sense. I dunno what me and you are doing this Game, I feel like I disagree with you, you get aggy at me and then we end up agreeing.

[Bellaphant]

I was frustrated with you around the wagon thing because I thought I was being really clear and you kept re framing it in a really weird way. Ive gone off Luke's wagon analysis in general, I think I'm being easily swayed by them looking really reasonable and then suddenly half of their conclusions feeling left field, like the dunnstral masons thing. I don't think I've been shading you about anything else?


I mean that's what it looks like today. I didn't think I'd like their content less when they weren't restricted!

[Bellaphant]

I guess I was more hoping for some clarity on the math slot through them as well but I haven't had that at all.

[Bellaphant]

The thing that bugs me the most is that there was no further questions about breaking it. Like I can see scum!math asking them in an attempt to get info to better enable the consequence, but I don't understand why it isn't the first question you ask as town or scum. I don't know, it's irrelevant but frustrating

[Bellaphant]

Also, for clarity, that's not a scum read on Luke, more a reminder to myself not to just nod and agree with all conclusions.

[Bellaphant]

? I don't feel like I said or thought that? And I agree, I need to more critical of Luke's conclusions.

My scum reads are boring - there's at least one scum in Johnny/mala/enchant. I think best bird is just flat scum. I'm trying not to scum read professor drapion. Math could be scum. I guess my spicier scum reads are that I wouldn't be surprised if oth was scum. Occasionally I waver on pooky:, but they are probably town.