LOST (Game Over)

[Rad]

Okay who is scum Mala?

I can tell u who’s most likely not scum

I’ll give you a hint

It’s:

Me, lukie, the Marci hydra, bbt, maybe pengy (even tho he’s evil and stole my PURRfect page top)

And then whatever I stated and I was reading at dinner

Bc I bet those are spot fixing on

Mala could be town.

Why is that townie?

[Rad]

Bring provocative like this is usually a townie indicator no? Considering Frog is in potential danger of being run up, do you think he provokes Luke this way?

I lean town on Frog and want him to chill and focus, but at this stage I'm also willing to vote anyone being blatantly anti-town because I don't give a ton of weight to my reads.

[Rad]

Bella feels town.
Also bbt feels town
Gamma shockingly enough feels town RN

I’m reading backwards while waiting for dinner and I’m on page 90

This post isn’t bad.

Idk but I don’t want Frog or Taly.

I just don't see how you're getting townie out of the posts you've quoted from her. Literally the easiest thing to do as scum is point out who's town and why they're town. Is this just a meta read on her that I'm not capable of?

Just vote Mala and let's see where the wagon goes.

[Rad]

Klick, how about Mala then?

[Rad]

Flavor

later

Vote Count 1.27

7 Roden (Frogsterking, Cat Scratch Fever, Cytosine and Guanine, MalcolmTucker, Bellaphant, Dunnstral, Klick)

3 Klick (Lukewarm, T-Bone, Bell)

2 Dancing Puppets (Malakittens, Best Bird)
2 Mathblade (Cephrir, ProfessorDrapion)
2 MalcolmTucker (JohnnyFarrar, Enchant)

1 JohnnyFarrar (Off the Hook)
1 Frogsterking (Mathblade)
1 Cephrir (Roden)
1 ProfessorDrapion (The toad)
1 PookyTheMagicalBear (Dwlee99)
1 Dunnstral (BlueBloodedToffee)


Not Voting (Taly, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Mala on V/LA until the 16th
Wedding week and new job expect less from me

Titus knows Mala a lot better than me, so maybe I should wait for her to decide?

UNVOTE:

for now since I can’t reach Titus.

Why did you quote the VC?

[Rad]

Especially since I can wait to get Titus’ take on Mala.

You ask some really strange questions Rad.

There's multiple references to Mala there.

2 Dancing Puppets (Malakittens, Best Bird)
Mala on V/LA until the 16th

So Mala's voting you, and mala's on VC. Was curious if you were hinting at one of those? Why would "because the deadline is in 5 days" be obvious to anyone? Just say "I'm unvoting for now to get titus's opinion - deadline is in 5 days so no need to rush" or something rather than quoting an entire VC and assuming everyone gets what you mean?

[Rad]

Especially since I can wait to get Titus’ take on Mala.

You ask some really strange questions Rad.

There's multiple references to Mala there.

2 Dancing Puppets (Malakittens, Best Bird)
Mala on V/LA until the 16th

So Mala's voting you, and mala's on VC. Was curious if you were hinting at one of those? Why would "because the deadline is in 5 days" be obvious to anyone? Just say "I'm unvoting for now to get titus's opinion - deadline is in 5 days so no need to rush" or something rather than quoting an entire VC and assuming everyone gets what you mean?

EDIT - Mala's on VLA (not VC)

[Rad]

I'm glad you posted this though Puppets, I'm going to go ahead and drop Rad down to a null read, sometimes red flags can be overlooked if they're very strange red flags.

So Frog, my 5232 response doesn't make sense to you?

[Rad]

I quoted the VC because I don’t need to rush this vote, especially since I can’t read Titus. I didn’t even realize she was V/LA.

It's fine. I was asking so I could UNDERSTAND WHY.

It's like every question I throw out is met with resistance and bullshit like Frog dropping me to null because of it.

[Rad]

It didn’t make sense to me. Why wouldn’t I quote the VC?

I explained exactly why? Sorry you think quoting that VC is super obvious to everyone. I'm done with this convo though.

[Rad]

It didn’t make sense to me. Why wouldn’t I quote the VC?

I explained exactly why? Sorry you think quoting that VC is super obvious to everyone. I'm done with this convo though.

Yeah, it’s pretty straightforward, I usually quote VCs to keep track of time, because some people are trying to rush this and while that’s fine, we don’t necessarily have to.

On that note, I don't think we should consider any wagons right now "trying to rush things". We're at 210 pages Day 1. I think we've got plenty of content to push some wagons and see how it plays out.

[Rad]

I see. Everyone is probably town.

Mala’s probably town.

I hope this was a joke reference, cause I laughed

Do you think Mala's town? If so, why? I can't find anything in her ISO that feels townie to me and there's a stark difference between this game mala and the mala town game DP found.

[Rad]

I can easily see a world where scum!mala plants a vote on scum!taly and afks. But I'm not convinced one way or another on taly ATM.

[Rad]

And this is why I don’t ignore meta.

Does Taly not AtE as scum?

And this is why I don’t ignore meta.

Does Taly not AtE as scum?

I think Mala’s scum and she’s voting Taly.

I think Bell's question is reasonable and your answer is irrelevant to his question. Also I find it weird you're not more interested in the answer to that question considering meta is your thing.

[Rad]

I hate how sometimes mobile quotes weird like that. I didn't meant to include that first quote, just the second one

[Rad]

rad whats ur thoughts on klick

Null in general and leaning on Bella's read so I can spend time looking elsewhere. Anything specific you're seeing in klick?

[Rad]

Dp you're the one answering Bell's question with an irrelevant answer. I'm not going to argue with you about it though. I just consider it suspicious that you're doing that. In no way does your belief that taly is town answer Bell's question that you replied to.

[Rad]

rad whats ur thoughts on klick

Null in general and leaning on Bella's read so I can spend time looking elsewhere. Anything specific you're seeing in klick?

yeah the lack of anything is what i see

do u townread bella then

Yes I do town read Bella. I'll take a look at klick later though.

[Rad]

Yo nancy if you're town, we just don't pay nicely together. You don't understand me, I don't understand you, and we're both getting scummy reads from it. Let's just back off each other ok? I read your past town games and you focus so hard on anyone who thinks you're scum that I know I'm walking into a town death land mine discussing anything with you. How about I point out stuff I find strange about you, you point out stuff you find strange about me, and we let other people sort us out? Deal?

[Rad]

I think you have the highest awareness of the gamestate right now because of your extremely high activity levels.

"ceph is pocketing math by saying we should read his posts"
>posts this

didn't frogster say something about gamestate awareness as reason to suspect us?

~GE

lol yup, I remember thinking that post was super weird. PP/BB confirmed that this was the correct way for frog to be thinking though.

ok and?

Defensive/evasive

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

I was confused by this then realized Dancing Puppets hadn't posted yet.

~GE

What's suspect about ircher/rh9? I'm more interested in your thoughts there vs. on us because they have the post restriction

~GE

To clarify, both the hydras who have been posting are the ones I've started suspecting. I wasn't counting Dancing Puppets.

I didn't realize ircher/rh9 had a post restriction. I thought they seemed like they are holding info back and spreading their game posts out between here and another thread.

they claimed their post restriction in their first post
they can only use 100 words maximum for D1

~GE

I can argue that this is showing a higher awareness of the gamestate which can be viewed as cautious/scummy.

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of both the hydra slots

why

I think you've asked a number of go-nowhere questions for the sake of appearing active.

idk about marci but I tend to ask seemingly filler question in certain circumstances, like when trying to filter out paranoid thoughts on TRs
I think I've only ever done it a whole bunch as town because as scum I feel like my filter would catch some of it + there's less need to legitimately sort so less need to ask questions that might go nowhere

~GE

I can argue that this is an overreaction and not consistent with the scum!gamma games I've played in the past.

VOTE: Off the Hook

[Rad]

Yo nancy if you're town, we just don't pay nicely together. You don't understand me, I don't understand you, and we're both getting scummy reads from it. Let's just back off each other ok? I read your past town games and you focus so hard on anyone who thinks you're scum that I know I'm walking into a town death land mine discussing anything with you. How about I point out stuff I find strange about you, you point out stuff you find strange about me, and we let other people sort us out? Deal?

This feels like an odd post. It's as if Rad wants to back off from earlier Puppets reads/interactions a bit but wants to articulate a reason for doing so that seems overly townie on the off-chance anyone calls them out about it.

Malcolm, do you feel like you might read into things too much? Just curious if you've run through that sort of introspection. Cause town!Malcolm is reading into it too much and just inherently disbelieving me at every turn. I couldn't help but read you scummy for it before until I got a chance to read your ISO and see how consistent you are with it.

[Rad]

lol DP is so fucking aggro.

town!Rad is pointing out that town!Malcolm is overthinking things, because that's literally the case if Malcolm is town.

Could scum!Rad be trying to AtE town!Malcolm? Sure.

Could town!Rad be missing scum!Malcolm pushing more shade? Sure.

I think it's town!Malcolm here and I'm trying to reason with him. Fucking vote me if you think I'm scum already.

[Rad]

lol DP is so fucking aggro.

town!Rad is pointing out that town!Malcolm is overthinking things, because that's literally the case if Malcolm is town.

Could scum!Rad be trying to AtE town!Malcolm? Sure.

Could town!Rad be missing scum!Malcolm pushing more shade? Sure.

I think it's town!Malcolm here and I'm trying to reason with him. Fucking vote me if you think I'm scum already.

The end there was directed at DP, not Malcolm.

[Rad]

lol DP is so fucking aggro.

town!Rad is pointing out that town!Malcolm is overthinking things, because that's literally the case if Malcolm is town.

Could scum!Rad be trying to AtE town!Malcolm? Sure.

Could town!Rad be missing scum!Malcolm pushing more shade? Sure.

I think it's town!Malcolm here and I'm trying to reason with him. Fucking vote me if you think I'm scum already.

Again this feels like a post where you're just frustrated at being suspected because until now you'd been widely TR'd. DP is correctly pointing out that criticising a player for overthinking things is an odd approach to take when playing mafia.

I've not voted for you because I'm personally more confident on Johnny coming back as scum and because Johnny is a more viable wagon - I doubt people would be willing to vote you out and no point in starting a complete vanity wagon at this point in the day.

Dude I'm not criticizing you. I'm pointing out what town!Malcolm is doing right now. Assume I'm town!Rad for a moment instead of some sneaky scum!Rad. Is that not what town!Rad's doing?

[Rad]

It's like the show, the monster comes out at night and secretly kills five of us who become the scum team from D2 onward

omg I haven't seen the show but looks like this is legit?? I googled and found "The man in black." Why hasn't this theory come up yet?? I don't want to read into it too much on the wiki as I might watch the show eventually... but could this be a scenario here?

[Rad]

noooo but that theory sounds super fun and I don't see why not...

[Rad]

noooo but that theory sounds super fun and I don't see why not...

Did you vote frog?
Vote Frog.


I have you as possible wolf.
Change my mind.

What's better, your scum game or town game?

[Rad]

Nooo RCE Johnny has my heart, don't tell me he's scum. I refuse.

[Rad]

Big no on Dweelee, Roden.

Dunn feels like a shark out for blood right now. Do we feel like he has an agenda? Is that why we're voting him?

Context: post mason claim, post Dunn theory on masons, post Luke’s case against Dunn.

Does it seem more or less likely that Town!Johnny both acknowledges the building push against Dunn but ignores the reasons against him. While also inviting others to case Dunn from a slanted angle.

I think they saw a townie with a vulnerable point to push without getting their hands dirty but that’s just me.

The vote coming only after prodding several slots on whether it made Dunn town or scum was also skeevy to me.

Yeah I see what you're saying here. I'll think about it more.

[Rad]

noooo but that theory sounds super fun and I don't see why not...

Did you vote frog?
Vote Frog.


I have you as possible wolf.
Change my mind.

What's better, your scum game or town game?

What kind of response is that and how does that answer my question?

I read much of your scum game iso and and was curious which alignment you feel you accel as.

[Rad]

Are you an alt of someone I know, ProfessorDrapion? You don't have to reveal, I just wonder how familiar you are with this site.

I used to play allot in the past.
Played with you too.
I actually lost a game where you were the last wolf and I didn’t suspect you at the end.

Oh, that should narrow it down drastically lol.

But tbh, I've already checked your past games and decided that you're probably not DkKoba. So my original point was moot. Thanks for answering anyway.

I was thinking he was Vasex when I checked. Not that it would matter a whole lot, but vasex misread me pretty quickly too.

[Rad]

Fuck it I'll sheep t-bone on this. Where we going t-bone. I'm on Mala right now.

[Rad]

Let's kill frog!

But if we kill frog all the scum will be revealed so sayeth the professor!

[Rad]

Meta is trash

That's why meta is the best when you're scum!

TBone do you think Ceph is town or do you just want to wait longer to see if he starts town telling?

I think Ceph is town.

Can you elaborate on this read a bit?

[Rad]

Do you have any scum reads Taly?

[Rad]

Meta is trash

That's why meta is the best when you're scum!

TBone do you think Ceph is town or do you just want to wait longer to see if he starts town telling?

I think Ceph is town.

Can you elaborate on this read a bit?

I know Ceph's snark is throwing people off, but when he's not being snarky I think he's trying to solve the game. I don't have any specific posts in mind atm, I started townreading Ceph when the posts were in the 1200s

Cool thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I read through his ISO shortly.

[Rad]

Meta is trash

That's why meta is the best when you're scum!

TBone do you think Ceph is town or do you just want to wait longer to see if he starts town telling?

I think Ceph is town.

Can you elaborate on this read a bit?

I know Ceph's snark is throwing people off, but when he's not being snarky I think he's trying to solve the game. I don't have any specific posts in mind atm, I started townreading Ceph when the posts were in the 1200s

Cool thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I read through his ISO shortly.

It might just be me.
But I think this can be a 4 way scum theatre.
It may also be bias because that’s where my head is at for wolves and then this entire interaction is a thing.

It would be my first official scum theater, so that does sound fun!

town!PD has some serious confirmation bias going on. I cannot do anything without him thinking i'm pure scum, all because he came into the game when I threw suspicion on DP. Go read my ISO man. Come back and vote me if you're still convinced after that. Or just vote me now please so we can get on with this.

Or I'm misreading scum!PD and this is some silly new meta he's doing, cause his scum game here looks a lot different in the one I read.

[Rad]

Again I’m trying my hardest to solve/hunt for townreads while trying not to fall really behind

I don't think this is true prior to this, but I'm happy you're picking up your play finally.

I don't think anyone's asked you to spend 24/7 in here but it would be nice if you're town to have some more involvement. Your ISO is full of you just playing around and I called you out on it 4000 posts ago with no real change.

UNVOTE:

[Rad]

I'm super confused at what the threat is that Frog is making? I'm not up to date on advanced roles, just super basic ones. Can someone 4dummies me on this please.

[Rad]

OH I thought the "2 shots" meant he could shoot someone, like a day vig or whatever? It means he can detect roles on 2 people during the day and he's claiming he just did that to Luke and Luke is scum?

The wiki says it detects a person's Role. What's Luke's ROLE frog?

Also...

4. Mafia is not determined by flavor. That means roles were mostly selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.

Does this make role cop not able to detect alignment?

[Rad]

@Professor you still seeing frog as scum after that nonsense? If so, sure, I'll join you.

[Rad]

Frog, say you're town!Role Cop. Who do you plan on checking tonight?

[Rad]

Frog, say you're town!Role Cop. Who do you plan on checking tonight?

I’d still like to know if he’s full role or just ability not alignment.

He said:

I hard claim Sayid, town 2 shot role cop. Unvote or out as scum.

Rolecop as in ability or full Rolecard?

Just the ability, my flavor is Sayid

[Rad]

Professor you never answered:

@Professor you still seeing frog as scum after that nonsense? If so, sure, I'll join you.

[Rad]

t-bone you think that's town!frog spastic theater and a legit role cop claim?

[Rad]

Why is anyone outing so soon? It takes like 14 to flip right?

I guess I can see the masons outing because they're mostly afk, but frog lives in this thread.

[Rad]

Everyone who isn't a mason has a NAI claim.

That's not true But I hear you.

[Rad]

Why is anyone outing so soon? It takes like 14 to flip right?

I guess I can see the masons outing because they're mostly afk, but frog lives in this thread.

Because I am present in this game.
Mafia have to claim early to survive in this game.
Frog is the first, or least I feel.

Ok. Are you voting frog right now?

[Rad]

t-bone you think that's town!frog

spastic

theater and a legit role cop claim?

Please avoid this word.
I find it offensive.
-Guanine

Sincere Apologies <3

[Rad]

Professor is literally the opposite of everyone else in this game. Tons of scum reads, barely any town reads.

[Rad]

Pooky, why are we not wagoning Ceph?

I'd feel bad about being biased against him because he rolls scum so often

Yesterday, he pockets Math while still voting him and today he drools at my death but accuses Frog of pocketing me. How is any of that town?

trying to kill you is usually a towntell because scum do not like to push you because you're like very omgussy and very loud.

but ceph knows I think this way so I guess it's conceivable that scum!ceph does this to pocket me

but like overall I rarely scumread any1 who scumreads you when you're being very loud and omgussy because scum usually do not enjoy being screamed at in a large theme on a push that will probly never go anywhere.

btw

no i would never do this to myself as scum, even if it did pocket you it would not be worth it. i hate being in the spotlight and ive ensured that i will be there until my death

TBH after reading some nancy games, I came to this same conclusion, and would not dare pressure that slot here if scum.

[Rad]

Malakittens
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
RCEnigma
Enchant
Bellaphant
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

Alright t-bone, if I had to vote with this list, here's my top to bottom order of preference (top highest pref to vote, bottom least pref)

PenguinPower
Enchant
Mala
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
MalcolmTucker
Cat Scratch Fever
Bellaphant
RCEnigma

[Rad]

Luke pick from t-bone's list or order it like I did or something. Let's get something rolling.

[Rad]

I kinda limited myself with my embargo on neighbors to be fair. I just think the existence of so many is important somehow. I sat on the knowledge for a long time for that reason. Maybe I'm making a mistake but it's mine to make.

I also don't want to force anyone to just "pick" from my list. Like if you truly town read any and all of those players I'm not about to bully anyone into compromising.

I mean, what kind of importance could the neighborhoods really play in terms of a town victory? Will aliens come down and the more neighborhoods that are alive the more likely town is to survive? Joking, but really, what kind of shocking twist do you think could come from it realistically?

[Rad]

Luke you read Prof that low really? He's just kind obvtowning it here imo, especially after reading his scum game.

Penguin is low enough on your list that we could go with that compared to t-bone's.

[Rad]

I kinda limited myself with my embargo on neighbors to be fair. I just think the existence of so many is important somehow. I sat on the knowledge for a long time for that reason. Maybe I'm making a mistake but it's mine to make.

I also don't want to force anyone to just "pick" from my list. Like if you truly town read any and all of those players I'm not about to bully anyone into compromising.

I mean, what kind of importance could the neighborhoods really play in terms of a town victory? Will aliens come down and the more neighborhoods that are alive the more likely town is to survive? Joking, but really, what kind of shocking twist do you think could come from it realistically?

Town role composition maybe? Its a gut feeling.

I think a random mix for the neighborhoods makes sense from a game design perspective (not that I've ever designed mafia games). It gives some additional fun tension to the game. Might even have a no scum/scum restriction on them or something. Them being all town seems kinda OP no? Also I'm not in a neighborhood so maybe I'm biased

[Rad]

So C caught me up (thanks C) and said Frog claimed rolecop.

Can anyone explain what the responses to that were?

I am torn between a) don’t elim an investigative claim D1 and b) then anytime someone gets run up claim investigative.

No I haven’t read any of your super special points in the mountains of spam.

i think the most notable thing about it has been how he claimed ("i am the lord your god, a 2 shot role cop, the best role to ever grace reality, unvote me or perish fools")

it seems like it should be readable

rofl

yeah @Math just glance quickly through frog's ISO, look for BIG LETTERS, shouldn't take long to see how it played out.

[Rad]

@MATH we were looking for a good wagon to start and basing it on t-bone's list so if it flips green we can blame t-bone

Malakittens
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
RCEnigma
Enchant
Bellaphant
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

Anyone there you wanna join on?

[Rad]

Luke you read Prof that low really? He's just kind obvtowning it here imo, especially after reading his scum game.

Penguin is low enough on your list that we could go with that compared to t-bone's.

There have been a number of posts that made me feel like he was posting for the purpose of posting, and the way he has approached trying to tackle the whole scum team feels kinda non-genuine. Most of his reads come across that way to me. idk.

I also scum read Galron when he was here.

I am sold on him being scum, but I would not be surprised. --- And it is kind of the issue where there are just more people who have worked their way up my reads, kinda leaving him behind.

Ok yeah, thanks for the explanation. I read galron town and PD's short meta that I could dive has me convinced. I hate how he's pushing cases on entire scum teams over individual scum reads but I'm reading that as some extreme arrogance. He kinda has the same arrogance in his prev game's mafia PT that I was considering similar. He sounds completely different in tone from both his prev scum game and his scum pt though (which should be his real voice) so I'm a little concerned about just a straight meta change attempt here making all this invalid.

[Rad]

i don't think it even makes sense for town to have a role cop

i don't see what utility it would serve if any

the theory you are claiming is not that a rolecop can exist in a large theme or in a game of mafia in general.

but that specifically

the flipless nature of this large theme, makes it make sense that a rolecop exists on the town side

I am asking you why specifically the flipless nature of this game makes role cop make sense

I've already explained why it makes a lot of sense as a scum role for adding utility to scum side.

What sense is it to have a VT then?

At least a town!Role cop is more useful than a VT yeah? So why not?

[Rad]

you know what? i don't need an answer to my last question. the last 2 pages answers it.

@Pooky, Luke, CSF, ProfessorDrapion, T-Bone, Bell, any masons who happen to be here right now

Please stop whatever you're doing. My thing is going to be a lot more important. Instead, please rank these players in the order you would most like them to die. T-Bone, if you could drop your neighbor embargo thing for this and give honest reads, I would appreciate it.

Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar
Taly
MathBlade

awww shit /popcorn

[Rad]

ceph smart to town read me but also know my reads are absolute garbage so I shouldn't be involved here XD

[Rad]

ceph smart to town read me but also know my reads are absolute garbage so I shouldn't be involved here XD

you can answer too if you like. i'll give you and Drapion half votes since I think your reads aren't super good.

bahaha, don't give me any points man, I just <3 johnny whatever alignment he is

Taly
MathBlade
Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar

[Rad]

Is Ceph about to explode himself to take out 2 people or some crazy shit like that so he doesn't have to pay attention during the wedding? lol.

[Rad]

Hey @Ceph one thing I just noticed is all the people you called out for their reads here, I've been openly reading as town. So I'm a little confused at my reads being terrible to you (not that they aren't terrible, but they seem to match yours?) Pooky Luke T-bone Bell at top of my town list, CSF in likely town. PD I've mentioned as prob town and even defended him.

Or maybe that list you wrote isn't a town list you're asking?

you know what? i don't need an answer to my last question. the last 2 pages answers it.

@Pooky, Luke, CSF, ProfessorDrapion, T-Bone, Bell, any masons who happen to be here right now

Please stop whatever you're doing. My thing is going to be a lot more important. Instead, please rank these players in the order you would most like them to die. T-Bone, if you could drop your neighbor embargo thing for this and give honest reads, I would appreciate it.

Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar
Taly
MathBlade

ceph smart to town read me but also know my reads are absolute garbage so I shouldn't be involved here XD

you can answer too if you like. i'll give you and Drapion half votes since I think your reads aren't super good.

[Rad]

POOKY

Please rank

Dancing Puppets
Johnny
Taly
Mathbalde

Scum -> town

Mathblade
Johnny
Taly
DP[never scum]

Here we go!

[Rad]

We can worry about frog later, let's see what ceph's got up his sleeve.

[Rad]

Cephrir, is whatever you're about to do going to kill yourself?

Would we be better off if Frogster used their role cop on you if you have a likely town role that kills itself?

i mean, it might, but not explicitly no

i realize this post is functionally a roleclaim

Oh shit was I right? I have no idea about mafia roles but game design wise, giving you some sort of explosive role that can kill multiple people and yourself is kinda awesome.

[Rad]

OMG

I have to vote one of you according to the wiki.

Is that right?

[Rad]

FUCK going with Taly, even though Taly started to feel more townie recently, like Mala. Sorry taly if my johnny ranking was absolutely wrong. I read DP likely town and Math maybe town. Ceph just feels slightly more townie than Taly to me. Literally in my rankings I had, BACK TO BACK:

Ceph - I can't get a grasp of his intentions at all and am constantly back and forth on him
Taly - like I mentioned before, taly's posts just disappear from my memory

VOTE: Taly

[Rad]

I maybe saved you johnny, praise me

[Rad]

I maybe saved you johnny, praise me

Actually I did RIP

lol whatever!

[Rad]

I got 1 little issue with this right now.

DP is crazy disruptive to town, but also most likely town. And they were in the running.

Does Ceph actually read DP as scum here? Ceph seems pretty smart. Is DP just anti-town (yes) or scum (??).

Ceph do you see a difference between anti-town and scum?

[Rad]

I got 1 little issue with this right now.

DP is crazy disruptive to town, but also most likely town. And they were in the running.

Does Ceph actually read DP as scum here? Ceph seems pretty smart. Is DP just anti-town (yes) or scum (??).

Ceph do you see a difference between anti-town and scum?

Ceph has been calling DP a scum read for a while now.

I am very much not surprised that they were in the running.

Yeah ok, I just don't understand why such a hard read. I mean he picked 4 people on purpose. DP is bottom 4 SCUM reads? Or just anti-town? Cause I think DP is easily bottom 4 ANTI-TOWN but not SCUM.

[Rad]

I got 1 little issue with this right now.

DP is crazy disruptive to town, but also most likely town. And they were in the running.

Does Ceph actually read DP as scum here? Ceph seems pretty smart. Is DP just anti-town (yes) or scum (??).

Ceph do you see a difference between anti-town and scum?

there is a difference yes

im not convinced they aren't scum, their posts do not make me think they are town - just loud

Thanks. Will think on this.

[Rad]

Technically, couldn't we just not vote and let the time run out?

I wish we could vote on skipping a day or something?

[Rad]

Technically, couldn't we just not vote and let the time run out?

I wish we could vote on skipping a day or something?

Dude are you crazy?

Why is that crazy?

[Rad]

Technically, couldn't we just not vote and let the time run out?

I wish we could vote on skipping a day or something?

Dude are you crazy?

Why is that crazy?

Just kill Taly

No fuck you why is it crazy?

UNVOTE:

[Rad]

Chances are we elim a town today. Why is it crazy to skip? Explain to me with logic.

[Rad]

Ceph's move was fun as shit and got me excited but now that I'm thinking about it, why are either likely scum?

[Rad]

Chances are we elim a town today. Why is it crazy to skip? Explain to me with logic.

Why don't you vote no lim every day 1 then? Odds are you'll lim a town

I mean we're down to 2 votes possible. Who's happy with this selection? I read ceph town for pushing it because this day is too fucking long but I was just getting a town read on taly finally. If the option is between 2 towns why the fuck do I want to vote?

[Rad]

I'm open to being convinced but tonight I will sleep on it.

I understand a town consensus day1 vote but we are in a 1v1.

I believe ceph did this for townie reasons but I don't think it ended up with a great vote even if taly was my top in his list.

This day is too long because bullshit spam, not because taly is at fault.

I'll read reasons I should vote anyway tomorrow but tonight I'm out.

[Rad]

Theres been 50 pages since I last checked and I read none of it. Anything important?

All you need to know is that Ceph Gladiated Taly.

Vote Ceph or Taly.

Thanks.

Wtf or third option of don't vote. Give people the correct options even if you don't agree with one wtf.

[Rad]

Fine if no vote isn't an option I'll vote taly. If it is an option, I want anyone who chooses to know it's an option.

[Rad]

Frog you screamed scum Luke as loud as you could. Why aren't you mentioning that?

[Rad]

I did Luke but it's late for me and I'll have to think and consider it tomorrow

[Rad]

Frog you screamed scum Luke as loud as you could. Why aren't you mentioning that?

Because you didn't read 6238

Yeah, I did, how about you stop gaslighting?

[Rad]

Frog you screamed scum Luke as loud as you could. Why aren't you mentioning that?

Because you didn't read 6238

Yeah, I did, how about you stop gaslighting?

Reword, gaslighting is a charged word.

How about he stops suggesting I didn't understand what happened when I was there and saw exactly what happened even if he wants to suggest something else happened?

[Rad]

Fine if no vote isn't an option I'll vote taly. If it is an option, I want anyone who chooses to know it's an option.

You have a choice. Gladiators mechanically just limit which votes are registered toward two players. But no voting is an option.
I'm voting because my opinion is that asserting your power as town to eliminate another player that you do not know is town day one is the more solid play in general than not voting someone out.

Seems logical and I'll consider it tomorrow for sure.

Same with Luke's comments and tbone commented earlier which I'll look at again.

I appreciate the direction. I don't know how this should exactly play out and I appreciate input. I believe the 1v1 changes things but will consider all input. Also there are plenty in the game to just avoid my choice here so if that happens, it is what it is

[Rad]

You can also choose to abstain from voting if you want Malcolm, while I think Klick knew, it's possible you don't know that.

<3

[Rad]

I still have a few pages to catch up on but my take so far is:

If we're going to lim someone simply because it's "the statistically the best move for town", and both Ceph and Taly are likely town - eliminating Ceph heals town and eliminating Taly hurts town, so I'll vote for Ceph if I decide that's the right move.

I'll VOTE: No lim while I'm thinking about it today

[Rad]

I want people to justify their

Ceph

townread.

I still want this addressed. I'm failing to see the town perspective from

Ceph's

play here and a no elimination will resolve very little, and indirectly posits that

Ceph

is town.

Sure I'll answer your question.

I believe a town!Ceph recognized the game state was terrible for town. We're just spinning our wheels constantly in different directions with no real cohesion. We've got PRs announcing left and right and surely more to come with more new wagons. Many people were openly stating how long d1 is dragging on and how they hated it. Most people are stating that the game is too fast and they can't keep up, so most people aren't even reading the entire thread at this point and just coming to conclusions anyway because if they don't, people scum read them for it. So many people are being toxic as fuck and shouting at each other making no real progress on anything. I think town!Ceph decided enough was enough and got his top town reads to decide who should be eliminated and made his move.

Or a scum!Ceph I guess could be diverting attention from a frog or mala vote by putting himself in the crossfire and hoping we all come to the town!Ceph conclusion?

I gotta lean toward the more straight forward answer of town!Ceph.

That said, again, I'll vote ceph over taly here if I choose to vote because an any alignment ceph flip at least heals town and a town!Taly flip absolutely destroys it. I don't think we see a scum flip in either of the 2 options so I'd only go for that if I conclude that it's just the smarter town move due to "stats/theory reasons", or if I convince myself that this town needs a ceph flip to progress.

[Rad]

Why is my townflip more detrimental than Ceph's hypothetical townflip?

Because you have emotional defenders I think are town and ceph has non-emotional defenders I think are town. Green taly flip causes retaliation likely to fall back onto town and green Ceph flip causes nothing to happen because Ceph started us down this path to begin with.

I doubt there's more than 1 scum arguing about this loudly right now, if any, and a green taly flip makes everyone arguing hate each other more. the taly defenders hate the vocal ceph defenders and the town ceph defenders are just going to feel attacked and frustrated for it.

I think even a red taly flip right now is probably terrible for town, because again, I think the most vocal people right now are all likely town and red taly flip would become pure chaos where we just elim town back to back to back. Red ceph flip probably moves us towards a solve. Red taly flip can wait until later when we have actual cases against taly.

[Rad]

Do you realistically think this is TvT or SvT?

TvT most likely

[Rad]

I no longer think even a ceph flip can heal this town. There's too much bullshit where likely town players believe so hardcore in their reads and care so little about other players that they are willing to trash the shit out of everyone who gets in their way. I don't know how much I even want to interact here anymore. Sincerely. If this is just a common large game issue, I doubt I'll ever join another one.

VOTE: ceph

[Rad]

@Nancy pls read this

I no longer think even a ceph flip can heal this town. There's too much bullshit where likely town players believe so hardcore in their reads and care so little about other players that they are willing to trash the shit out of everyone who gets in their way. I don't know how much I even want to interact here anymore. Sincerely. If this is just a common large game issue, I doubt I'll ever join another one.

VOTE: ceph

I think this post is very good and poignant.

There are some people in this game such as myself and nancy who are very opinionated, very loud, and compulsively spam the thread full of our own opinions and do not much care for listening to anyone else.

I also have the bad habit of savagely mauling people who disagree with me because I am not a good person.

I am going to take a step back from this game in order to hopefully take a step in the right direction.

I highly suggest to Nancy that she should do the same thing for the good of the thread and everyone else playing. just post your opinions in the hydra chat with titus instead of putting them all in this thread.

I think having fun is more important than winning the game and I'm not sure making this place miserable is very conducive to winning the game.

I'll write an apology to T-Bone in my next post and that will be it for me for the rest of the day.

I hope Cephrir and STD have a lovely wedding and we somehow get Cephrir a ticket off this hellhole of an island.

Thank you Pooky. <3 Anyone can fuck up, it's about recognizing it and growing from it. I'm no saint myself and easily get caught up in the emotion all the same. I really appreciate your reply here.

[Rad]

Was FIN C&G finally running out of words? That would be pretty poetic to end it right before what should be the end of the day. Well done if so

[Rad]

Well with that info in mind I think it's worth discussing....

DNA posted 101 words by my count. I checked myself five times. I did not include signatures, and I counted the number strings as one word each. I must have a major Blindspot to keep finding an extra word. It's possible. So some other players should count their ISO when they get a moment.

I got 103. Did you count this post T-Bone?

2032 is a good idea, and now the hydra should have no reason to lurk

Missed 67?
-Guanine

It was a quote of rh9 who I guess accidentally posted in the thread under the wrong account. I imagine that should count as 2 words there, even if it was c&g quoting something, no?

Without that post, I got 101

[Rad]

We never asked what the penalty was.

Why wouldn't you ask this question...?

@Math did you ever ask them what the penalty was in your PT? If so, how did they respond?

[Rad]

Mod makes up post limitation as a game design element and ignores it? I don't buy it.

Player gets limitation and doesn't care what happens if they go over? I don't buy it.

2129 isn't a naked quote, it's a quote from one of the hydra's players who accidentally posted under the wrong account. If the player didn't accidentally post it under the wrong account, it would have been a 2 word post under the C&G account.

Fake post restriction.

VOTE: Cytosine and Guanine

Also Corwin must not have asked C&G about the penalty either. Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to ask if you're town and want to know what happens if they go over it. I mean why not? That's not something we want them explaining when they're restricted to 100 words. But Corwin/Math could have easily found out if they cared and let us all know.

[Rad]

@Rad So you think our hood is SvS? Okay, it's not impossible, but it's like very taboo. I should know having subverted that expectation in the past.
~Cytosine

Yeah I would read this scenario as a SvS neighborhood. I have no clue if that's likely or not but the general consensus seems to be that neighborhoods were random in this game, so all combinations are possible.

[Rad]

Does anyone think that there is still a benefit for me to keep my neighbor unmentioned?


Pedit: I think that C+G should reach out to the mod, see what the effect of breaking the limit is/was, and see if it is gonna happen now that it has been revealed, and report back.

STD literally got married over the night phase, so I could see him missing it.

Yeah I mean, sure, he could have missed it. As a wannabe game designer myself, if I made that up I'd be all over counting those words and punishing. Do I do that when it overlaps with my WEDDING? Maybe not lol.

That's only 1 point in the suspicion here though.

[Rad]

The simpler explanation would be no hood if that's your theory Rad. Which I don't think is unreasonable.

Yeah perhaps. I'd love to see when that neighborhood was revealed compared to other neighborhoods. If someone just knows off hand, that might be something interesting to consider. I mean, if it was the first one revealed, it's a lot more likely that it's legit ya know? But I can't remember the order neighborhoods were revealed and there's 322 pages...

[Rad]

Does anyone think that there is still a benefit for me to keep my neighbor unmentioned?

I don't see why not, but I'm not theory master.

Why not discuss with your neighbor and come to an agreement?

[Rad]

Masons are Roden and Dwlee

[Rad]

Dunn claimed some provable PR. He gave some hints to Luke specifically at some point trying to spell out what PR he was. I thought from his hints he was a vet (or I think that's called a PGO now?) but I guess not?

[Rad]

This is why I kinda got a town lean on you BBT. I don't see why you couldn't keep up as scum here, and I don't think you're the scum lurker type, especially in a game you were so excited about.

[Rad]

@RAD

Why did you think that Dunn was a Paranoid Gun owner?

So when you and Dunn had this back and forth about soft outting his role to you, he said:

I am going to attempt to soft my role to Lukewarm. This should be fairly cryptic but not impossible to figure out.

"...but it's what you are going to get."

And I sat on that line for a while trying to come up with what the rest of the line was. Back when I used to play, we had a role called Veteran, so I pictured a vet sitting in his rocking chair and as the scum walk into his door, he shoots them saying something like "this may not be what you were looking for, but it's what you are going to get." BOOM.

This fit fairly well for me with his other statement here:

Is it a role that is confirmable or extremely useful and you would not recommend killing in any capacity D1 Dunn.

Confirmable: yes
Extremely useful: no
Would not recommend killing day 1: yes

Confirmable - yeah he's going to kill scum when they come try to NK him. Also I had the thought that it could be a vet with both a day kill and night kill option.
Extremely Useful - depends on if scum comes to kill him, maybe he says No because scum probably won't try it.
Would not recommend killing day 1 - yes, let the scum try to come kill him

Confirmable: yes

This shit better confirm

UNVOTE:

I sure hope I don't get roleblocked

This post also felt like more confirmation, like he was trying to bait scum into roleblocking him (which in my understanding, the vet/pgo should fire first before the roleblock? no clue if that's actually how that would play out)

All that said, I didn't even know a "friendly neighbor" role existed so it wasn't in the realm of role possibilities I was considering when I was trying to figure out what he was soft claiming.

[Rad]

Spoiler:

BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
ProfessorDrapion
Roden
Rad
Mathblade
RCEnigma
Enchant
Dwlee99
Bellaphant
Mislim Bait
Bell
JohnnyFarrar
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm
Best Bird

So first I'm going to remove myself, Roden, and Dweelee from the list because duh

Spoiler:

BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
ProfessorDrapion
Rad
Mathblade
RCEnigma
Enchant
Bellaphant
Mislim Bait
Bell
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm
Best Bird

Next I'll remove Tbone because he's my hood buddy and Luke because idk why scum Luke kills Dunn rather than keeping the suss on him all day

Spoiler:

BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
ProfessorDrapion
Rad
Mathblade
RCEnigma
Enchant
Bellaphant
Mislim Bait
Bell
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
Cat Scratch Fever
Best Bird

Next I get rid of Math (and by extension c&g), because I don't think scum math makes the universal scumread POE smaller when he's so clearly on the chopping block

Spoiler:

BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
ProfessorDrapion
Rad
RCEnigma
Enchant
Bellaphant
Mislim Bait
Bell
Cat Scratch Fever
Best Bird

From here I'm looking at people I think would be

more

concerned with a conftown Dunn than they would be about killing literally anyone else.

Those people are:

Taly

- Dunn was pushing them

before

the ceph glad

Rad

- Strikes me as paranoid, might not have landed on FN

Drapion

- had been admonished by Dunn several times for clogging up the thread

People I'm less likely to vote for in this POE:

Mal

- being partnered with Luke, I don't see why scum Mal wouldn't just let Luke spin his wheels in Dunn's direction all day. This isn't a strong aversion to a vote because maybe he WOULD be worried about Dunn being confirmed? No way to tell.

BBT / Mala

- same as math but to a lesser extent because I don't know them, do they take a potential mislim off the table when they almost got run up yesterday? My instinct says prolly not

Oh Johnny </3

Can you elaborate on your thoughts regarding scum!me please? I'm paranoid how, with regards to Dunn? I think Dunn came across as having a pretty steady town read of me, yeah? Is scum!Rad paranoid of his PR or something? Why is scum!Rad more paranoid about an unknown town PR than any other potential scum player?

[Rad]

If Dunn was a FN, would his action take place before he gets killed by mafia?

[Rad]

rad help me

what's up?

[Rad]

If Dunn was a FN, would his action take place before he gets killed by mafia?

I believe that the standard resolution order would result in the Friendly Neighbor firing, and then the mafia kill. Nightkills are actually pretty late in the list for the NAR.

That's what I was thinking. I can't imagine Dunn not firing it at you though Luke. I assume you didn't get a message because you haven't announced it.

So if that's the case... does it mean he wasn't FN? I mean if he was FN, he 100% fires it at Luke right, given that back and forth??

Did anyone here get a mod message about Dunn being FN? No way he fires it at Frog right?

[Rad]

Is scum!Rad paranoid of his PR or something? Why is scum!Rad more paranoid about an unknown town PR than any other potential scum player?

Yes, PR paranoia. You give off that vibe more than the average player. To me. We're you not the one who posited that maybe we're all town? Might've been a joke but that the idea occurred to you says your mind can go to extremes

Nah Frog came up with that idea, and my game designer wannabe brain thought it was fucking awesome.

[Rad]

Is scum!Rad paranoid of his PR or something? Why is scum!Rad more paranoid about an unknown town PR than any other potential scum player?

Yes, PR paranoia. You give off that vibe more than the average player. To me. We're you not the one who posited that maybe we're all town? Might've been a joke but that the idea occurred to you says your mind can go to extremes

I'm just not following how this logic points to scum!Rad.

scum!Rad is paranoid of any PR
scum!Rad pushes his team to kill the PR
scum kills Dunn

Like, why wouldn't scum team just kill PR regardless of how paranoid you think scum!Rad is or isn't? How does whatever paranoia you're reading from me come into play as proof that I'm scum?

[Rad]

Does anyone think that there is still a benefit for me to keep my neighbor unmentioned?


Pedit: I think that C+G should reach out to the mod, see what the effect of breaking the limit is/was, and see if it is gonna happen now that it has been revealed, and report back.

STD literally got married over the night phase, so I could see him missing it.

Yeah I mean, sure, he could have missed it. As a wannabe game designer myself, if I made that up I'd be all over counting those words and punishing. Do I do that when it overlaps with my WEDDING? Maybe not lol.

That's only 1 point in the suspicion here though.

Can you talk about the other reasons you suspect us?
~Cytosine

I just meant that the mod potentially missing the count due to wedding just counters 1 point in believing the whole thing is a lie. Tbh if you're not lying about the restriction then you're completely null to me.

[Rad]

DP has accidentally drawn my attention to the following

I've hardcore skimmed the last however many pages and read MathBlade's ISO, and he just looks lost to me. Can you explain what were DNA's reads, and what are yours - I remember Bell and ...? Summarize the hood discussion for us plz, that might help me see why you're townreading DNA. Also how caught up are you

Is Klick still town? What's the VC? I don't know anything anymore

I already established that I only share reads with consent.

I don’t just announce things without permission especially while one head is catching up.

G head thinks that Bell is back null because their acting better but votes are weird.

Frog is erratic (their word)

Klick is null

I don’t know which reads I can and can’t share because they didn’t want certain reads shared

why did you expect the masons to share their reads & summarize their discussion if you don't agree that doing so is good play?

& P.S. did you ever try to secure their permission to summarize your discussion?

I think sharing things is good play.

I also believe in affirmative consent.

They said not to share some reads. So I abide by that.

I expect them to share what and if they’re capable of sharing when they do so when they consent to.

I think this is worth revisiting.

@C&G can you help us understand why you requested math to not share some of your reads? Anything in particular that you requested he not share?

[Rad]

Since there's 5 scum, I think it's unlikely that Rad would be the one dictating the NKs in any scumteam in this list, given their relative inexperience.

I don't disagree, but we live in a thread where it's entirely possible that Rad is the most active scum

That's actually fair

Nah CSF's initial thought is correct here. Even if I'm scum I'm not the scum strategy leader. If you'd like to see my previous game's scum pt to see for yourself, I do not have the knowledge or confidence to run a large game scum team's strat. RCE can also confirm.

If you wanna believe I'm scum it's going to have to be something that actually makes sense cause this theory is DoA regardless of my alignment in this game.

[Rad]

that's impossible to predict but you have to weigh the balance between fostering game apathy by waiting for a long time for something that might never show up and like actually just getting something done?

Let's keep in mind we're also waiting on a dwlee replacement, which I would think happens before the math replacement. So waiting on a math replacement to happen and for them to create some reasonable content to finally decide could mean days of waiting. We have also lost any more math input with regards to c&g pt interactions. I'm not sure how to best proceed there.

I'm lean scum on math right now but I'm not liking how he's the easiest push, even before the replace out. Like math himself and even corwin feel scummy but the conversation around his wagon since the beginning has also felt off, so I lose my confidence in it.

[Rad]

what does this mean
is it a scummy post?

100%. Reeks of TMI. Like, you're confident enough to say that Math will flip town but not confident enough to do anything about it?

You bet Mathblade is town = confident
But your read is flimsy so you won't defend = not confident?

Your sentences literally contradict each other

BBT, I get the scum angle here, but how is it any more convincing than the town angle of "that's just literally how he's thinking about it"? He just joined the game yesterday. If he's town, doesn't it make sense that he'd be looking at the Math wagon and trying to figure out how legit it is, and after some time reading he might have that basic level of certainty/uncertainty? I mean shit, I've read the entire game and that's about the level of certainty I have on the Math wagon as well - not certain at all and something feels off.

Are you basing your vote on anything else besides this statement from him + Klick explaining town reads easier than scum reads?

[Rad]

Bell </3

To be fair, I dunno why I have a town read on you, and you believing I'm scum just increases it. Like Malcolm taking about me being scum makes me think he's scum but you claiming I'm scum with no explanation makes me think the opposite. Fun.

[Rad]

I literally put most effort from all players in this game

Enchant, when you say stuff like this, how are any of us supposed to take you seriously?

Is this typical Enchant?

[Rad]

Oh god Enchant tied it all back to the beginning. That deserves points. Will not vote Enchant this day.

[Rad]

@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's 8736 and Luke's 9072 with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?

[Rad]

@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's 8736 and Luke's 9072 with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?

You do know that a single player scum reading you is okay right? Lol

I do!

I also read him town and would like to hear his thoughts about those posts

[Rad]

For some context Luke, I feel similar about both you and T-Bone as you feel about T-Bone. I'd like to get some more opinions to help round out my reads, and hey, if Bell's scum that answer could be useful as well.

It doesn't have to be me trying to convince Bell that I'm town with your and T-Bone's endorsement, ya know?

[Rad]

You know what I really like about Johnny still? This catch:

Rad - Strikes me as paranoid

Yeah he's right. But it's a town paranoia, not a scum one. Does scum!Johnny read that deeply into me to catch paranoia? Has it really been obvious? I doubt it, but he nails it anyway?

[Rad]

But also, he would be a safe person for scum to push. Because no one is ever blamed for his miselim in any game he is miseliminated in.

Luke I think we're having similar thoughts about Enchant.

Here's my "easy targets" list from beginning of d2:

Math
BBT
Enchant
Johnny
PP/BB
Mala
PD

I've been specifically aware of any pushes on those people. Not that any of them are necessarily town that scum wants to push, but that if scum wants to push someone easily, it's likely a town in this list.

Have you been thinking something similar? I only ask because you pointed this out with Enchant so was wondering if you had a list like this.

[Rad]

For some context Luke, I feel similar about both you and T-Bone as you feel about T-Bone. I'd like to get some more opinions to help round out my reads, and hey, if Bell's scum that answer could be useful as well.

It doesn't have to be me trying to convince Bell that I'm town with your and T-Bone's endorsement, ya know?

I thought I remembered you saying you thought Bell was town, and that read got even stronger when he said he scum read you.

So, that made me read that post as you attempting to sway Bell over you attempting to get a read on Bell.

If I was wrong, then just ignore me lol

No you're right, I read Bell as town, and I reiterated that in 9113 which you probably missed right now because of my 9114 post immediately after.

[Rad]

@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's 8736 and Luke's 9072 with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?

You do know that a single player scum reading you is okay right? Lol

Spoilers we're both town reading him

With specific/similar reasons which I'd like Bell to respond to.

[Rad]

But also, he would be a safe person for scum to push. Because no one is ever blamed for his miselim in any game he is miseliminated in.

Luke I think we're having similar thoughts about Enchant.

Here's my "easy targets" list from beginning of d2:

Math
BBT
Enchant
Johnny
PP/BB
Mala
PD

I've been specifically aware of any pushes on those people. Not that any of them are necessarily town that scum wants to push, but that if scum wants to push someone easily, it's likely a town in this list.

Have you been thinking something similar? I only ask because you pointed this out with Enchant so was wondering if you had a list like this.

I just wanna say, I am literally having to work with Nancy here to get even one vote on Enchant so this is anything but easy.

My perception of easy and the reality may not match up (though I stand by my perception here).

Do you think there are some easier players for scum to target or is that a ridiculous thought?

I'll give my "hard" list to compare. Do you think if we gladiate Enchant with any of the following players, people would vote anyone over enchant?

Rad
Luke
DP
C&G (note - was made at beginning of d2, I think after the potential lie reveal this is no longer "hard")
Roden
Dwlee

[Rad]

Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.

A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.

[Rad]

So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and

will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone

else

If this is what you were saying, then I totally agree with you

Yes that is my main point.

I believe that scum will go for "hard" targets IF the opportunity provides itself, but most likely it won't, so the easy targets are more likely and I'll pay more attention to those pushes.

[Rad]

Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.

A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.

scum pushing lhf is just basic hunting theory.
who's reasons are bad is what matters

Yeah, it's LHF theory, isn't it. Sorry for being basic

I think I got caught up in Luke's point about Enchant and wanted to explore and confirm it.

[Rad]

Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.

A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.

scum pushing lhf is just basic hunting theory.
who's reasons are bad is what matters

Yeah, it's LHF theory, isn't it. Sorry for being basic

I think I got caught up in Luke's point about Enchant and wanted to explore and confirm it.

So which pushes are actually bad?

TBH I dunno. Anything you're spotting in particular?

[Rad]

Rad, what lie was revealed?
I'm starting to worry that you're getting confbiased.
-Guanine

I cannot see how you're not lying about the post restriction. I'm absolutely biased by it because if you are lying, I can't see a town angle for it, and the additional confusion of me not understanding why no further votes have happened on you.

town!CaG - why doesn't scum jump on you here? It means you're not actually lying and since there's no momentum, no reason for scum to jump on?
scum!CaG - scum doesn't want to bus you if it's not necessary, and I'm the only one to vote so fuck it?

Either way is hard to understand.

[Rad]

Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.

A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.

scum pushing lhf is just basic hunting theory.
who's reasons are bad is what matters

Yeah, it's LHF theory, isn't it. Sorry for being basic

I think I got caught up in Luke's point about Enchant and wanted to explore and confirm it.

So which pushes are actually bad?

TBH I dunno. Anything you're spotting in particular?

I wasn't paying attention thats why I wanted to know

The top 2 wagons right now are uneventful from my perspective.

6 Mathblade (Lukewarm, Bell, Taly, Cat Scratch Fever, BlueBloodedToffee, RCEnigma)
3 Bluebloodedtoffee (Mathblade, Roden, Off the Hook)

Math is full of my town reads and town leans, but I'm not super confident in my own reads
BBT has Math which I scum lean, Roden which is a supposed mason which I just accept but have no real read on, and OTH which I have null atm

And then a bunch of 1 person wagons.

If I had to choose between those right now, as a gladiate, I flip Math, but I'm not super confident in it.

[Rad]

Rad, what lie was revealed?
I'm starting to worry that you're getting confbiased.
-Guanine

I cannot see how you're not lying about the post restriction. I'm absolutely biased by it because if you are lying, I can't see a town angle for it, and the additional confusion of me not understanding why no further votes have happened on you.

town!CaG - why doesn't scum jump on you here? It means you're not actually lying and since there's no momentum, no reason for scum to jump on?
scum!CaG - scum doesn't want to bus you if it's not necessary, and I'm the only one to vote so fuck it?

Either way is hard to understand.

I mean, maybe the others want you to be the scapegoat for our flip.
In my honest opinion, as much as I hope for the best, you'll look the most scummy from our flip.

Well let's consider you're town and this leads to a flip. T-Bone was the first to mention you going over the limit. Why is T-Bone not the "most scummy" for this? Just because I'm the only one focusing on it right now? And if we get enough to flip you, somehow I'm the reason everyone decided this lie deserved a flip? I see no town reason for the lie, and if you flip town, it means you likely weren't lying and the mod decided to not enforce his own rule. How is that on anyone but you and the mod?

But seriously I don't understand how in a game with absolute minimal rules, you just get away with breaking the 1 weird design-decision-focused rule in the game that we've heard of.

Do you see how that might make someone suspicious of wtf is going on with your slot?

I've seen town mislimed for a lie, but I simply don't understand this one. So if you're going to sit here and persist in claiming it wasn't a lie, and that the mod just didn't care, I don't know how else to view you except for a liar because the alternative just does not make sense.

[Rad]

1 more thing CaG

I would appreciate a response to my 8693 post please

[Rad]

All the talk about Corwin made me want to go re-read his ISO, so I did.

I didn't see any mention of a neighborhood with C&G. There are some things that stood out though.

In post 1442 he town reads C&G, and the list appears to be either ordered Most Town to Least Town or at the very least, the town part is sectioned into Town and Lean Town. We know he reads me as town from his 1469 so it makes sense that he's just reading C&G as a stronger TR there with a TL on Johnny and T-Bone.

In all of C&G's read updates, they're reading Corwin as town.

C&G's opening vote is on Corwin which feels breadcrumby.

There's no other interaction between the 2 of them.

Some take aways:

1. I think Math's "corwin was doing work for both" or whatever he said is absolute nonsense but not necessarily scummy nonsense. I see no proof of it, but town!Math certainly could believe that and we don't have access to the neighborhood if it does exist, so it's possible that's not nonsense.

2. If anyone has a reason to read C&G town at that stage of the game, it's someone in a neighborhood with them where they can speak freely. Shouldn't SvS there just make the

impossible to read due to limitation

C&G null? In some weird scenario where Math comes in and claims a fake neighborhood, that's SvS but it's a set up that makes sense as far back as C&G's very first post/vote and following through with the matching town reads. Like it tracks with Corwin's behavior and they never mentioned it until Math comes in.

3. The immediate flavor claim of Jin does support the idea of the restriction as well as the neighborhood with Corwin/Math (Sun). Luke brought this up earlier and it made a lot of sense before I started thinking the restriction was a lie.

4. I suppose all the nonsense COULD have happened and C&G really isn't lying. I feel blinded by it currently.

@C&G can you tell us about your conversations with Corwin before he left? Also, what gave you such a strong town read on him?

Unvoting until I can make more sense of all this.

UNVOTE:

[Rad]

Actually, masons for the Math and C&G slots makes a lot of sense given both the flavor and their TRs on each other.

Is a setup with 2 mason groups ridiculous and unheard of? My main concern with this idea is:

Yeah I'm not going to bother trying to keep up at this point, 70 pages is too much.

I can vaguely tell there's a wagon on me. I'm claiming Mason.

UNVOTE: Roden
(move Town)
-Guanine

A C&G mason would have to believe that 2 mason groups in this set up is totally legit and there's no reason to question the other mason claim at all.

I think considering the Math and C&G slots are viable wagons right now, they should just claim if they're masons?

[Rad]

Actually, masons for the Math and C&G slots makes a lot of sense given both the flavor and their TRs on each other.

They never claimed masons, and it is unproductive to just invent that idea and work from there.

It's a scenario that clears up a ton of things for me. I'm not inventing anything, I'm looking at it from different angles and that specific angle makes most things click into place. I'm not saying it's necessarily the reality, and C&G can come in and make a claim if they want to, and we can take it from there. The other angle that makes sense for me right now is a SvS between the 2 slots.

[Rad]

@luke, I disagree that Rad is town.

I dunno why C&g is playing how they are this game, but I doubt they haven’t seen my shade directed their way.
They’re intentionally ignoring me. Which I can’t do anything with.

Do you have good reasons this time or still just running on instinct here?

[Rad]

I don't think it's a bad take at all.

The way Malcolm describes my play is heavily descriptive on the scum!Rad side. I'm the sneaky snake scum and every single thing I do can be explained by some sneaky snake scum motivation. Read through Malcolm's content about me and tell me it doesn't read like a fucking mystery novel describing events in detail that assumes my scummy emotions at every turn.

I haven't concluded why he's approaching his cases about me like this, but I think it's probably 1 of 2 options.

1. town!Malcolm is conf biased as fuck and can only view my actions through the Rad Is Scum FOR SURE lense.

2. scum!Malcolm is bloating his cases on me with all the nonsense that Mislim Bait has spotted.

[Rad]

It's basically why the more Malcolm posts about me, the more I read him scum. He assigns emotions to me that are literally not there. He spells out my choices for reasons that are absolutely untrue. And he's so sold on the conclusions and seems to have such a hard time looking at me from any sort of town angle that I find it hard to believe it's coming from town.

[Rad]

All aboard

VOTE: Malcolm

[Rad]

@Mislim Bait - Malcolm and Luke are in a neighborhood together, so keep that in mind when considering their reads on each other

[Rad]

Luke, do you think post 9323 is fair when Mislim Bait is a recent replacement who couldn't possibly have a grasp on every statement everyone has said in a 373 page game? Like I get you want to defend your town read neighborhood partner, but do you really think it's possible for Mislim Bait to be picking and choosing inconsistently between all those instances?

[Rad]

Ooooh spicy!

[Rad]

Who would Ceph be pushing right now if he was in the game? Does he have any confident scum reads?

[Rad]

Will you be able to talk to Dunn and Frog on day 3?

Potentially one of them. I only have one more shot.

I see.


I am interested who frog targetted, and if he got a result on the night he died, or if death stopped it.

For Dunn, I want to know his role, and what he did with it. If friendly neighbor, who he sent it to.

Not sure which I would want to know more. Probably Dunn?

I feel like the most likely answer from frog is : I did not get my result

Oh yeah this is a way better line of questioning. Get Ceph to give us some more info on Frog and Dunn if possible, for sure.

[Rad]

I mean, I'm assuming there's a dead thread with everyone in it and BB has a personal thread directly to Ceph. In that scenario, Ceph could theoretically relay info from dead Frog and Dunn. I guess it's possible there's no shared Dead Thread though, or could be some sort of limitation to what Ceph can communicate.

[Rad]

I mean, I'm assuming there's a dead thread with everyone in it and BB has a personal thread directly to Ceph. In that scenario, Ceph could theoretically relay info from dead Frog and Dunn. I guess it's possible there's no shared Dead Thread though, or could be some sort of limitation to what Ceph can communicate.

I seriously doubt this to be the case. Or else it defeata the purpose of him being 2 shot.

If PP/BB is telling the truth, then i imagine the dead thread won't be made until after PP/BB uses their last shot

Yeah makes sense. I got excited lol

[Rad]

Alright town let's gooooo!

We've got some great options here to discuss tonight!

First up we've got our most popular target in both Day 1 and Day 2. Mathblade!!

Mathblade was a replacement for Corwin. Both have felt kinda scummy, kinda not at various points. Math pushed hard to get town to "just talk to each other" which seems like a pretty noble thing indeed (cool!) if it wasn't also to defend against people just straight voting for him for reading him as scum (bummer...)!

Here in town we've got people with all sorts of meta reads on him. He came in pretty slow and steady and people meta read him as scum for it, so then he ramped things up and different (maybe!) people read him scum for it! Math's meta has very conveniently settled into the "math is scum if he's in the game" territory.

Math was a neighbor to C&G and we can't quite tell what was a lie and what was the truth coming from this smooth talker. He's the Sun to C&G's Jin and supposedly Corwin was posting for both of them, like in the show (cool!), just not in any way that we can verify (bummer...). It's probably the truth, we just don't realize it (Yeeesss)!

Hurry and vote today for Mathblade before his slot gets replaced with someone who makes you question your reality, or if flipping the slot sounds fun to you!

Next up we've got... BlueBloodedToffee!

BBT was the most excited person to get this game together. I bet most of you are in here because he messaged you in some way to get you to join! Siiiick. He also likes to skip out for long periods of time, complain about how much has happened since he last visited, and then proceed to spam page tops more effectively than anyone! Of his 292 posts, approximately 276 of them are pagetops! KING!

BBT is notoriously difficult to read with masterful blending of town and scum play styles, or in other words, both his town and scum play are incredibly scummy! Which one is he this time?? Don't bother with that meta nonsense, says his signature, cause BBT screams scum no matter what so just stop it don't bother!!

BBT has been especially good at naked votes this game, where he strips hi... I mean, where he votes for someone with no specified reason. This is a new term for me cause I'm a newbie and I love sharing my newbie status with people. Cool!

BBT loves VCA unless your VCA points to him, in which case it's absolute shit and you should feel embarassed for it wtf is wrong with you? Level 0.

BBT is a great counter wagon to just about anyone. If you see a wagon gaining momentum and you want to stop it, just vote for BBT. BOOM instant competing 3-6 person BBT wagon!

Next we have... Cytosine and Guanine aka C&G aka CaG aka cg aka DNA?? aka Jin

C&G could only speak up to 100 words during day 1. This is a legit restriction that the mod gave them. I bet you can't guess what the penalty is if you go over. Can you? Can you guess it? I mean not that you'd want to guess it, you could just ask the mod, but why would you do that? And why would their neighbor ask about it? Booooring. Also fuck the mod, let's go over 100 words anyway. It's not like we have a neighbor who could literally "translate" to the rest of town like in the show Lost that this restriction seems based on. Nah that's stupid just hit 103 words and give the mod the middle finger and let's move onto our next and last entry...

Malcolm!

Malcolm is currently writing an action horror novel staring Rad (that's me!). Follow Rad's character as the narrator describes in excrutiating details all the scummy shit only someone like Rad could pull off. There's no move Rad makes that isn't precicely calculated with the singular goal of town muuurrrdeerrrr.

Malcolm has also recently unlocked the "fastest 3 votes" achievement. Congrats! Luke will be giving out this award later in your neighborhood where you can defend Rad's town creds back and forth before you realize he's not just a character in your spy romance novel, he's... puurrree eeeviiiillll!

I'll just wait here and vote with town when town's ready so let's go town, let's vote out the scum!

[Rad]

I'm confused.

Vote bella

Vs

Vote, bella

[Rad]

Alright Math it is!

VOTE: Math

[Rad]

(Malakittens, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook) Let's goooo! Place your votes on whatever wagon you want, or create a new one! Exciting!

[Rad]

Math at E-2 I guess!

[Rad]

E-1!

Where's Enchant. Incoming?

[Rad]

You pick BB. You vibe better with Frog, just go frog man. He's full of reads anyway. Then you got Ceph and Frog feeding you reads and whatever info we get from frog's action is icing.

[Rad]

You're too late Enchant. Bella stole your hammer. Go back into your hole.

[Rad]

I think this is "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" scenario. Just pick frog or dunn. There's no reason to expect town!BB to even survive tonight, let alone until D4. So get your next dead buddy and come into D3 with the power of 3 people making reads + some potential new PR info. Just my opinion though, could be flawed since I have no real experience in this sort of scenario.

[Rad]

[Rad]

Frog PR info - coinflippy but it's possible he hit mafia goon if he was the mafia NK target. Or he hit a VT. Or he hit a PGO? All good info for BB to hold or reveal.

Dunn PR info - we get to find out his role, and if it was FN, we get to have some direction on who to grill over not revealing. Maybe we soft determine there's a mafia roleblocker in that scenario. Is this info heavily useful? I have absolutely no clue so someone smarter than me should answer this please. Or Dunn wasn't an FN and we might get some spicy info out of it.

[Rad]

I'm struggling to keep up. Based on votes, I want BBT but Msth slot may need to be limmed for thread health.

~Titus

Too late! Math got voted. We're just waiting for day to end now.

[Rad]

Mod's probably at work?

[Rad]

Fuuuuck this is my fault

I called E-2 when it was at E-3. How appropriate that I miscounted when we're wagoning someone named Math?

ENCHANT I SUMMON THEE

[Rad]

Nono sorry, I wasn't wrong, it's 12 to flip... lol I was looking at this stuff again and thought it was 13. Nevermind, Math's done.

[Rad]

join us, double hammer!

[Rad]

PD any good info you can give about whoever you invested N1? If you should keep that to yourself, fair enough, but I imagine you'll be high on the NK targets for N3 with this claim.

[Rad]

I agree with Klick / Mislim Bait probably being town.

[Rad]

What does it mean to sound wooden? I'm not grasping the concept though I've heard it used a few times now.

[Rad]

@BB, did you pick someone last night to talk to?

[Rad]

The pooky vig stuff comes from this:

LOL OOPS I SUCK SORRY FROGSTER

So bad vig even if Frog was scum.

nah it was a good vig cuz I would've spent the entire day pounding the table chanting frog bloood frog blood frog blood

I think the OOPS was just how hard pooky was pushing a frog lim d1, but some people took it as "oops I shot a town"

[Rad]

Does Bella's flavor match up with the idea of being "macho"?

[Rad]

If Bella is "macho" there would be no reason for scum to not NK her tonight, besides some form of wifom. Does scum risk doc protecting correctly to try to wifom?

[Rad]

why would scum even shoot bella at night if they have an ungated strongman

They probably don't. Isn't the idea here that both Bell and Bella are potentially "macho" so Bella's doc save on him just didn't work? Or am I reading macho wrong, this term is new to me...

[Rad]

i love how we've now gone to maybe bell is macho for the explanation why bella's "protection" failed when the obvious simple answer is that she's just mafia who killed bell

lol gotta think through all the scenarios damnit! but yeah I guess this scenario is ridiculous...

[Rad]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

I think I'm a pretty bad choice for n1, tbh. Why me Bella? Even if I was your top town read, there are others who should have been more likely to get NK'd just based on universal town reads (Luke?). Scum should be much more afraid of a town!Luke after d1 than me.

[Rad]

Unofficial count:

enchant, luke, pooky, BB, PD, CSF, RCE, Malcolm - 8

11 to flip

Bella's at E-3

Please don't vote Bella here unless you're ready for the day to end and her to flip! Just note that you're prepared to vote Bella but want to wait a bit first, or something.

[Rad]

I don't wanna blahblahblah for 10 days either. But we just started this day. Also literally the game is just blahblahblah so we should probably do some of that first. Specifically I'd love if Taly popped in soon to blahblahblah about Bell's flavor and Bella came to blahblahblah to my question.

[Rad]

I was looking through the Lost wiki at the episodes Bella mentioned... the character Juliet is indeed a doctor. So yeah... flavor matches...

I couldn't find anything specific from "the other woman" episode that points to Juliet being "macho" but maybe that's not spelled out in the wiki. Any Lost watchers wanna comment on that? Any macho-like character development from her in that episode?

[Rad]

And like RCE pointed out with Bell:

It’s pretty clear just by my role that the flavor does determine what kind of role you have.

[Rad]

4. Mafia is not determined by flavor. That means roles were mostly selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.

Let's put some more thought into this.

Mafia's not determined by flavor

, meaning bad guys in the show aren't necessarily scum here, good guys aren't necessarily town.

Roles were

mostly

selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.

This part doesn't really make sense to me so let's think it through... First - "mostly". Ok so "some" roles may have been selected specifically to be town or specifically scum. Maybe doc is just town no matter what? And we could have, say, a day-shot vig who's scum cause it was random? Along with most other roles, but maybe some are just town or just scum.

So I could see this designed as... assigning specific roles to certain flavor, then randomizing the roles that could be scum (with some roles that CANNOT be scum), and then assigning to players.

That could make a doc like Juliet *just* town.

So question for longer time players. Have you seen scum-docs before on this site?

[Rad]

Alternately, Juliet doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a doc in this game. Someone with knowledge of the show could know she's a doc and allow Bella to claim doc because of that.

Just another thought I wanted to toss out there to consider.

[Rad]

Ok so scum doc is possible, cool, good to know.

Let's suppose scum!Bella's doc claim is legit for a moment.

Does scum!Bella the doc target Bell as the one making the kill? Wouldn't scum!Bella the doc target the scum killer in case Bell is POG or something? Or maybe scum has an invest role and scum!Bella the doc sits on them just in case? Why is scum!Bella the doc killing Bell?

[Rad]

Another question:

Does scum!Bella targeting X!scum who's going to kill Bell be seen as visiting Bell or X?

[Rad]

Another question:

Does scum!Bella targeting X!scum who's going to kill Bell be seen as visiting Bell or X?

Not unless there’s a redirect.

Is the answer "Bell" or "X"?

[Rad]

from the perspective of Tracker PD

[Rad]

My thought process here is scum!Bella the doc is on scum!X the killer who is going to kill Bell. Does PD see Bella visited X or Bella visited Bell?

[Rad]

Sorry BB I didn't see anything that answered it.

You said:

Another question:

Does scum!Bella targeting X!scum who's going to kill Bell be seen as visiting Bell or X?

Not unless there’s a redirect.

which doesn't answer who it says she visited

and:

Bella unless Bell was a lightning rod.

which the answer is "Bella"? did you mean "Bell?"

[Rad]

Love mobile…

Bella unless Bell was a lightning rod.

Bella is seems as targeting X unless there is a redirect on Bella or Bell is a lightning rod.

Ok thank you. I'll look up lightning rod but that's really overcomplicating it I think.

What this suggests to me is we can rule out the scenario where scum!Bella is targeting scum!X who is going to kill Bell.

I get that I'm "overthinking" this but if we're not going to think through all the scenarios and conclude which is the most likely one, let's just RVS till the end of the game. We've got some reads and claims and a red flip and if we just rush into flipping Bella here, why are we playing this game?

[Rad]

@Rad.

Drap's tracker result says: Bella targeted exactly Bell, and only Bell, with anything that Bella used that targeted someone overnight.

I don't know how to make that any clearer, so I hope that helps.

Yup I got it Luke, I know what DP's result was. I was wondering what the result of scum!Bella targeting scum!X would be when scum!X went to kill Bell. And BB has answered that now too so we're good on that one.

I was trying to find a scenario where scum!Bella makes sense.

[Rad]

Love mobile…

Bella unless Bell was a lightning rod.

Bella is seems as targeting X unless there is a redirect on Bella or Bell is a lightning rod.

Ok thank you. I'll look up lightning rod but that's really overcomplicating it I think.

What this suggests to me is we can rule out the scenario where scum!Bella is targeting scum!X who is going to kill Bell.

I get that I'm "overthinking" this but if we're not going to think through all the scenarios and conclude which is the most likely one, let's just RVS till the end of the game. We've got some reads and claims and a red flip and if we just rush into flipping Bella here, why are we playing this game?

No…it isn’t rvs. It’s Occam’s razor (dear god I finally said it).

Nah everyone jumped on Bella without any analysis, is why I'm comparing it to RVS.

Actually Occam's Razor given the likelihood of Bella being an actual doc based on flavor is that town!Bella sat on Bell and Bell is macho so now he's dead.

You gotta deny Bella's a doc at all for there to be a better Occam's Razor cause the scum!Bella doc scenarios are complicated.

[Rad]

Luke sanity check me please.

Did scum!Bella the doc or not doc go kill Bell last night?

[Rad]

alright, Luke sanity check complete. I'll drop it.

[Rad]

My shit also matches my character, same with T-Bone

You and T-Bone are so buddy buddy in your hood that you shared your flavor AND your roles?

[Rad]

Starting to agree with ceph tbh.

On johnny scum?

[Rad]

alright, Luke sanity check complete. I'll drop it.

fwiw I think you're entertaining hypotheticals that are worth entertaining if and only if Bella flips town. It's kind of a matter of balancing probabilities

I mean, if Bella flips town, then we don't gain much info here, right? Either Bell's macho, or there's a strongman? Doesn't even matter. Our doc is ded cause we didn't figure it out. Or maybe I'm missing something.

I think it's more worth considering before we flip Bella.

But it's cool, I'm down with murdering Bella now cause fuck it? Maybe she's scum. I like occam's razor and people are saying I'm missing it. We can wait some time for Taly though.

[Rad]

I just glanced over Bell's ISO. He actually read Taly as scum for most of the game, I think until the response to the gladiate. Even after that, in d2, he just told DP that he'd respect the Taly veto, which suggests to me that if the veto wasn't there he'd still consider voting Taly. I doubt he even told Taly any revealing info about his flavor given he believed his role matched his flavor.

This wait might be pointless.

[Rad]

I just glanced over Bell's ISO. He actually read Taly as scum for most of the game, I think until the response to the gladiate. Even after that, in d2, he just told DP that he'd respect the Taly veto, which suggests to me that if the veto wasn't there he'd still consider voting Taly. I doubt he even told Taly any revealing info about his flavor given he believed his role matched his flavor.

This wait might be pointless.

I agree that he probably did not full claim to her

But assuming that their hood was done like mine, she had Bell's flavor told to her by the mod.

So, I don't think it matters if Bell trusted her or not to get the flavor.

Oooh. So you just know the flavor name of the other person via mod? Gotcha.