LOST (Game Over)

[Rad]

nice luke

[Rad]

Let's do this

VOTE: Bella

Strongman targets Bell and town!Bella targets Bell is just wtf GG

E-2 maybe? Been a while since I checked. Caution if you vote.

[Rad]

Oh butter, the first 300 pages moved so fast... it was so hard to keep up and many people just didn't...

[Rad]

Fast games can be manageable, but when it's just endless back and forth over frankly useless points of discussion that have no real bearing on anyone's alignment, things get bloated very quickly.

I mean, frankly, if you've noticed some scummy discussion going on, you should point it out. If you see town discussing pointless shit endlessly, it just is what it is, feel free to try to intentionally limit it. If you seem some scummy shit going down, how about you point it out?

[Rad]

I have tried to intentionally limit what I thought was bad town v town discussion rather than just disparage them. Feel free to do the same man.

[Rad]

<3 johnny. You might be scum here but we should hydra or something in the future

[Rad]

The Raddest Cowboy

TRC

RC

You can be absent and I'll just obvtown, unless we roll scum, and who the fuck knows what that looks like

[Rad]

BBT should be on in the next hour, not necessarily, but typically. Curious to see his read on the Bella stuff that's happened tonight.

[Rad]

Nah johnny let's be

Tank!

[Rad]

Yeah DP I like that.

UNVOTE:

Zzz sleep soon for me

[Rad]

I've been thinking of a DP => Bella => DP sort of scenario for tonight. We can talk more about it tomorrow.

Taly's not going to get NK'd, I think.

DP tracks Bella target him and either Bella dies or someone random dies. Shows that Bella has the ability to target someone outside of a NK. If PD dies we flip Bella. Strongarm ruins this line of play I guess but so does flipping town!Bella so... we're betting on probabilities there.

I dunno if there's a smarter scenario to play out of... town!Bella... strongarm!scum... will think about it tomorrow or I'm sure someone else can think of it in the meantime.

[Rad]

Rawr I said DP => Bella => DP. I meant PD, to track Bella's movements. Just clarifying.

[Rad]

why would we waste a track just to track them again

VOTE: Bellaphant
this just needs to go and ppl should stop speculating about roles with funny names in a non flip game.

Garbage. We know flavor points to roles and should be taken into account. We don't know what alignment roles are so we have to consider that separately. If we ignore that we're ignoring valid information.

[Rad]

Dp on point. Town Bella just dies tonight sitting on PD, or other doc saves her. Scum bella dies tomorrow not protecting PD. Or unlimited strongarm wrecks town cause OP as fuck

[Rad]

Yup dp, I'm with you on this plan. Unless something else comes out that makes more strategic sense.

[Rad]

We don't need flavor flips when flavor is outted before the flip. What are YOU taking about mislim?

[Rad]

Yo we already decided Juliet (bella claim) could be doc.

Did Bella steal it from a scum partner? Sure maybe.

If PD dies tonight we flip bella, 100%.

If Bella is town doc PD doesn't die. Bella dies or someone random dies.

That's the point.

[Rad]

I've been thinking of a DP => Bella => DP sort of scenario for tonight. We can talk more about it tomorrow.

Taly's not going to get NK'd, I think.

DP tracks Bella target him and either Bella dies or someone random dies. Shows that Bella has the ability to target someone outside of a NK. If PD dies we flip Bella. Strongarm ruins this line of play I guess but so does flipping town!Bella so... we're betting on probabilities there.

I dunno if there's a smarter scenario to play out of... town!Bella... strongarm!scum... will think about it tomorrow or I'm sure someone else can think of it in the meantime.

Because Bella is likely scum - 10292

All this would tell us tomorrow is that Bella is scum, and then we'll have wasted a night of actions to learn what we already know today

Nah actually PD can target whomever. I thought he should target bella at first but really fuck it, he can target whomever.

If PD dies, Bella is dead tomorrow from us voting her.

If Bella dies, PD has more info.

[Rad]

Yo we already decided Juliet (bella claim) could be doc.

Did Bella steal it from a scum partner? Sure maybe.

If PD dies tonight we flip bella, 100%.

If Bella is town doc PD doesn't die. Bella dies or someone random dies.

That's the point.

role blocker exist iirc
which is why pd failed the track on csf d1

Ok if so, who does rb target?

If targets town bella, PD dies and we flip bella tomorrow. Same scenario for scum as if we flip town bella here.

If targets pd, bella dies and PD gains no info.

In both cases it only sucks for town Bella which is the same scenario as town flipping town Bella right now.

So in rb scenario, only town Bella suffers? Now if town bella is doc and we have second doc, chaos for scum.

Sorry sounds like broken English because phone.

[Rad]

Dp 10344 is on point

We must wait.

Find other scum in meantime. Bella resolves tonight potentially with PD safe or bella as tomorrow's flip. PD safe is highest priority here and if scum decides to leave them both alone tonight, they're fucked anyway.

[Rad]

People who see value in keeping Bella alive today:

Me
DP
BBT
RCE (though hesitant)

People who do not:

Luke
BB
Pooky
T-Bone
Mislim Bait
PD
Enchant
OTH
CSF
Malcolm

People who probably do not but haven't openly stated:

butterchurn
Johnny
C&G

Unknown:

Mala
Taly
Roden

You guys have the votes to flip Bella here, so no need to argue about this anymore, just do it.

[Rad]

Yes please fast night. The worst part about this game is having to sit there for 2 days waiting on the game to start again. The break after the awful day 1 was fine but if we're going to speed through a day here, let's speed through the night as well.

[Rad]

No reason to wait on Taly. We know what Bell's flavor was, and that character isn't likely "macho". We know that Bell probably didn't disclose any specific info to his hood because he had a scum read on Taly for most of the game.

We can wait on Bella's reads list and then you guys should go ahead and flip her.

[Rad]

scum!Drap tracks town!Bella doc coincidentally to the NK. Ok!

Good luck setting up that pure luck scenario as scum!

Like... any scum!Drap scenario here is absolutely more ridiculous than any town!Bella doc scenario

[Rad]

Unless you do mega scum theatre, that's always a treat too

Could be scum theater in a SvS, sure. But any scum!Drap town!Bella scenario is absolute ridiculous luck.

[Rad]

scum!Drap tracks town!Bella doc coincidentally to the NK. Ok!

Good luck setting up that pure luck scenario as scum!

Like... any scum!Drap scenario here is absolutely more ridiculous than any town!Bella doc scenario

As opposed to the pure luck scenario of town!Drap doing the same?

What??

town!Drap absolutely tracks Bella last night 100%. Like he scum reads Bella so hard that Bella had to openly state how uncomfortable it was making her feel. town!Drap tracking town!Bella doc to the NK is pretty crazy, but not as crazy as scum!Drap tracking town!Bella doc to the NK.

[Rad]

Bella's alignment is NAI for Drap here, IMO

How this has all played out makes Drap town to me (though I already had a hard town read on him so it's whatever)

Let's just stop though, I think there's just some confusion going on here. You guys get to flip Bella soon so who cares, let's just see what happens. If Bella flips town and you want to push a scum case on Drap, go for it

[Rad]

It's fine. I think we're just getting caught up arguing multi-level hypotheticals here. Let's take a step back and if Bella flips town, and you read that as Drap scum, you can push a case for that directly.

[Rad]

Ahh looks like T-Bone was actually the hammer.

Maybe Bella will get in here to post before day ends? Seeming unlikely though.

[Rad]

BB always gets these unofficial vote counts in RIGHT before I get mine in cause I have to step through page by page counting them...

[Rad]

Ah I figured you guys had some software that sorts through them automatically to generate that VC

[Rad]

triple hammered!

[Rad]

rofl did they really try to kill PD and doc saved?

[Rad]

looking forward to PD's latest track

[Rad]

Johnny doc? Interesting. I thought you were thinking BBT was doc.

[Rad]

Yeah Mala was asking you PD why you would out Johnny as doc.

I just assumed you had some reasonable reason.

I dunno why I thought you were thinking BBT but that's the impression I walked away with when you were mentioning it in previous day.

[Rad]

So Enchant hard-bussed Bella yesterday?

[Rad]

Right, and I didn't because...?

[Rad]

Right, and I didn't because...?

i mean - you did until DP offered an out tbf

Not true.

I got beaten down by people telling me I was stupid and when DP jumped in and also seemed to agree with my thought process, I decided maybe I wasn't stupid.

[Rad]

I've been waiting for someone to blame me for Bell kill

[Rad]

do i need to be more obv

Nah I caught your claim but I don't think anyone currently dead has any role reveal that would matter? However, I was staying silent on the matter because I think other people who are smarter about roles and whatnot would have a better grasp on if any dead role reveals could be useful.

[Rad]

Someone day-vig macolm for me and flip me if he flips green please. Or day-vig me and flip malcolm after. I'm up for either at this point.

[Rad]

Me, Corwin, and Bella were in my first newbie here (2 games ago). Bella and I can't read each other for shit and town almost lost the game because of it. I figured she was reading me properly here because she's a good player and has figured me out. Others were reading Bella as town throughout the game so I leaned on that. Drap's track came out and the doc claim + flavor made sense to me. It was a bit complicated how town!Bella could play out but also didn't make sense why scum!Bella doc was the night killer. I believed it could resolve itself if we give it a day. I asked Luke to sanity check me and decided to say fuck it, and ignore my thoughts and just vote her in solidarity with Luke. Then DP came in and started talking about the shit I was thinking in the first place and decided to go with my gut instead. We mind melded for a bit and it felt right. Then I pointed out that Bella had the votes to flip so you guys should just do it and we should stop arguing about it. Never was I defending Bella as *definitely town*, I was defending a potential town doc as a play that could resolve itself without us flipping her.

Both Bella and Corwin pocketed / tried to pocket me, likely based on our previous game. I read through Corwin early game where I made my case on him, but to be fair my read on him softened later when I revisited reading the case. I didn't have much to go with early besides his small ISO and his interactions with BBT which I at least had some familiarity with. Bella I never had a super strong read on but it felt good that she was town reading me, and again that could make sense for a more experienced player to be able to recognize me better the second time around. Obviously for me now it was a pocket and a good one (gg Bella).

Let's get this shit done if anyone thinks I'm scum for "defending" Bella, bring it. Why would you wait? Analyze me now and vote me if you think I'm scum. Don't sit on that until I'm the right target, casting shade and lowering your read on me from town to scum slowly. Hit me now.

[Rad]

VOTE: Malcolm

[Rad]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

Think she was true claiming her doc shot on rad n1?

Suggesting scum!Bella doc protecting scum!Rad as he goes to NK in case he targets PGO?

Clever thought. It's wrong but I like it lol.

[Rad]

This game is pissing me off and I'd rather it just be fun and not so stressful. Killing enchant sounds less stressful. Also I envy their seemingly care free approach to the game.

VOTE: enchant

I'm just kinda psyched that Johnny might not be scum. That makes me happy. Also pretty sure my town!RCE read is correct and I'm happy that me and Nancy are getting along when we clashed so hard earlier.

[Rad]

Luke I don't think you understand the faith I have in you

to claim my inno and annoint you as GUARDIAN AND LEADERPERSON OF THIS TOWN

I am putting my life in your hands buddy

let's fucking goooooooo

If I was really trying to shoot my shot as town leader, I'd say let's kill Rad.

Because I trust the town to kill enchant after I am dead and gone, but not so much with Rad lol

bruh i'm down to yeet rad

Let's do it baby.

I got a paranoid scum team read of something like you, tbone or Luke (just 1, other likely town), plus other, maybe Malcolm. Prob not Luke and Malcolm (too obvious) so it would more likely be tbone, or maybe Luke enchant. I think this game is scum driven and bus heavy, but that seems ridiculous and I dunno how scum pooky or Luke get to end game without being obv scum so it's whatever. I know I've been afraid to say this which makes me think scum has created an environment where it doesn't feel comfortable to speak up, and the lurker types certainly aren't causing that. But hey fuck it

[Rad]

Have you seen how good Luke's scum game is? I read through one of them, fucking disgusting good. I dunno how good you are at scum pooky but I get the impression you're probably as good, and tbone openly admits to being that good. Then you come in and claim cop with town reads on them. I bet that's within scum!pooky's skill range. Even if both of them are town it would be a good move.

[Rad]

Oh the scum theater of math yelling about how pooky is so beloved that he gets away with everything is so delicious if true. Like not only is that utterly pointless for him to whine about but would also benefit a scum!pooky to be able to point at later to show how against one another they were.

[Rad]

Game is scum driven and 2/3 yeets have been on scum.

Ok.

It's my paranoid hero solve. I get to gloat like fuck end game when scum!Luke dominates the shit out of town as the top town read all game. I admit it's ridiculous though with my statement "but that seems ridiculous and I dunno how scum pooky or Luke get to end game without being obv scum so it's whatever". And I'm still willing to just follow Luke on this Enchant flip cause chances are Luke's just town here.

He wants to call the people scum reading him scum, but realizes that me and pooky both pushed math.

Pfff I've been sus of you and T-Bone for a while now.

@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's 8736 and Luke's 9072 with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?

@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's 8736 and Luke's 9072 with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?

You do know that a single player scum reading you is okay right? Lol

I do!

I also read him town and would like to hear his thoughts about those posts

For some context Luke, I feel similar about both you and T-Bone as you feel about T-Bone. I'd like to get some more opinions to help round out my reads, and hey, if Bell's scum that answer could be useful as well.

It doesn't have to be me trying to convince Bell that I'm town with your and T-Bone's endorsement, ya know?

Pooky announcing you're both town via cop read when there's no great reason to throw that out right now just made me sus Pooky. And in the scenario where scum!Pooky does that, I try to figure out what the likely scenario is for Luke and T-Bone's alignments. Probably safe to pull in 1 scum partner there. Kinda ridiculous to pull in 2. And really safe to just announce you're cop and 2 townies are town.

[Rad]

Yo Luke, I literally got the Math wagon rolling. Town stalled like fuck and I wrote my 9443 parody post that got town all ramped up to flip scum You're welcome! The Math wagon kicked into gear and I jumped on board. My scum read on math had died off, with just a scum lean, but I was willing to just go with everyone else to see what happened. Also that second quote you bolded "It's probably the truth..." was a joke dude. The joke is that supposedly Corwin was doing work for 2 people, but not in any way that anyone of us can verify, but it must be true anyway!! I mean give me a break, obvious joke, but you're taking it as a manipulation technique? lol

He is acting like this paranoia has been here for a while, but he was too afraid to speak on it. But that simply does not match his play.

When he was thinking about not killing Bella, I was the single person in the whole player list that he reached out to, by name, to do a "sanity check"

Yeah I still lean on you as my town go-to because in all reality, that's probably just what you are, but that idea makes me paranoid as fuck and reading your scum game broke me. See my last town game where I literally sheep my top town read (I tell them to vote and I'll join whomever they pick) and mention that if he had survived the night, I would have read him as scum lol. GG my reads.

My Bella read was difficult too because I misread her all game my last town game, making cases on her and continuing to push, and was just wrong. People were reading her more town this game, which I leaned into because fuck my reads, until Drap's mech, so I was still rolling with a what-if Bella's actually doc here stance that would resolve itself.

[Rad]

I’d rather not do Rad at this very moment. But like..yeah 10272 especially “you would have to deny Bella is a doc at all” makes it seem like Rad had knowledge Bella was trueclaiming their role.

Bella's flavor matched the doc claim. Until Pooky's cop claim, I think we were all leaning towards flavor probably matters with regards to role. I mean, I certainly was and I know Luke was.

[Rad]

C&G while you're here, I have a question for you. Are you still around? It's something I'd need to ask and have you answer fairly quickly for it to matter.

[Rad]

Thanks C&G -

Regarding your Corwin summary post 9386

Can you give me the timestamps for the following posts?

6
9
12
18
24

[Rad]

Yo Luke, I literally got the Math wagon rolling. Town stalled like fuck and I wrote my 9443 parody post that got town all ramped up to flip scum You're welcome!

You were not even voting Math at the time that you wrote 9443? And your cases against the other people were noticeably sharper.

Kinda hard to give you credit for the math wagon my friend.

LOL try again

From what I've read so far, of the options in 9443 in order of how much I want to vote, I would go with MathBlade, then BBT, then C&G, then Malcolm. I don't really think this game needs another loud leader at this time so I think it's probably most useful for me to be an added vote to help whatever townblock there is push in the direction that seems best. And hopefully to provide a fresh perspective at times.

I would specifically not like to vote for any of the following at this time:
- Roden (obviously)
- Rad
- Dancing Puppets
- Cat Scratch Fever
- PookyTheMagicalBear
- Lukewarm
- Bell
- Mislim Bait
- Bellaphant
- T-Bone

The others I either haven't read enough of their posts, I would be open to the possibility of someone convincing me that they're scum, or I would gladly vote for them.

VOTE: MathBlade

Credits 9443 and calls me a loud leader

I'll just wait here and vote with town when town's ready so let's go town, let's vote out the scum!

VOTE: MathBlade

I'm not sure how/why the BBT wagon stalled/dissipated, as they haven't been particularly towny. But I'm also happy to move back to MathBlade, since I TR everyone on that wagon

C&G is in my "would vote" pool. But I feel like a lot of my null/scumleans are voting there, which makes me feel bleh about it

I'm not feeling Mislim's scumcase on Malcolm

Quotes me

VOTE: MathBlade

I'll accept this, don't feel like we'll go anywhere else and I think there's a decent chance of catching scum.

Jumps on board cause momentum.

Alright Math it is!

VOTE: Math

Here we go!

VOTE: Mathblade

chooo choo choo

Totally unrelated right?

ok then

VOTE: mathblade

Yup not momentum based at all.

VOTE: mathblade

i thought i was already voting here wtf

Even OTH wants in cause wtf why are they not voting Math already!

VOTE: mathblade

Bella HAMMER LOL

[Rad]

6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine

Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.

[Rad]

Yo Luke, I literally got the Math wagon rolling. Town stalled like fuck and I wrote my 9443 parody post that got town all ramped up to flip scum You're welcome!

You were not even voting Math at the time that you wrote 9443? And your cases against the other people were noticeably sharper.

Kinda hard to give you credit for the math wagon my friend.

I have this issue as well Rad. Like….town “stalled” on math (which is also misleading) because you and others started a C&G counterwagon.

You mean because C&G was scummy as hell and deserved a wagon?

Tell me I didn't jumpstart Math wagon.

[Rad]

6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine

Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.

It's a site rule.
~Cytosine

Is it? Sorry then. I thought since it was specifically game related, it was ok to ask.

[Rad]

There is a difference between what happened after your summary (the math wagon reaching hammer), and your intent behind your summary.

And there is only one that matters for your alignment.

There is nothing from that summary that makes me think, that you think, making that post will lead to a dead Math. Regardless of your alignment. Especially since you were not voting math at the time.

Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't intending to specifically flip math with that. I just picked the top 4 realistic wagons. I actually had a town lean on BBT there and wrote him up anyway. I had scum leans on everyone else. But I saw town stalling and wanted to push things forward, and I believe it was successful at that.

[Rad]

6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine

Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.

It's a site rule.
~Cytosine

Is it? Sorry then. I thought since it was specifically game related, it was ok to ask.

Thank you for answering as much as you did then and sorry for asking a question I shouldn't have.

[Rad]

Like, are you seriously arguing that people should think that you cannot be partnered with Math, because you made a post where you outlined the top 4 wagons (one of which happened to be Math).

Because, to be clear, your post gives big "one of which happen to be Math" energy.

If you want to argue that your post was the catalyst for some of the people to vote math, then sure. But that speaks more on those people. The people who looked at the 4, and when given those 4 options made a choice. Then it does about the person who made the list of 4 people.

I looked back to remember why I felt we were "stalled". These posts were what drove my big post:

Mathblade

Mathblade

he's so hard to kill even when he's gone lol

Doesn't help that we're off wagon atm

I think it has more to do with this town than it has to do with Mathblade.
Whatever people want out of mafia they aren't getting so they won't eliminate anyone until they get whatever it is.

I wanted to motivate town to join in on a single wagon, whether that was my c&g one or one of the others.

[Rad]

I feel like that last post I made is going to cause more back and forth with Rad...

Rad. I understand that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why town!Rad would have made that post.

And I feel that explanation coming from you already.

But reasonableness does not matter.

There is a "reasonable" explanation for that post from town!rad, and a "reasonable" explanation for that post from scum!rad.

But it only matters if you are actually making an Alignment Indicative Point.

Luke this (and your other recent posts) is why I town read you and scum read Malcolm.

Cause your logic makes sense and you're weighing both angles equally. Malcolm JUST focuses on scum!Rad.

Paranoid me thinks you're just dominating everyone as scum but I also try to recognize that's a silly way to look at it.

[Rad]

Spoiler:

Actually, masons for the Math and C&G slots makes a lot of sense given both the flavor and their TRs on each other.

Is a setup with 2 mason groups ridiculous and unheard of? My main concern with this idea is:

Yeah I'm not going to bother trying to keep up at this point, 70 pages is too much.

I can vaguely tell there's a wagon on me. I'm claiming Mason.

UNVOTE: Roden
(move Town)
-Guanine

A C&G mason would have to believe that 2 mason groups in this set up is totally legit and there's no reason to question the other mason claim at all.

I think considering the Math and C&G slots are viable wagons right now, they should just claim if they're masons?

Actually, masons for the Math and C&G slots makes a lot of sense given both the flavor and their TRs on each other.

They never claimed masons, and it is unproductive to just invent that idea and work from there.

It's a scenario that clears up a ton of things for me. I'm not inventing anything, I'm looking at it from different angles and that specific angle makes most things click into place. I'm not saying it's necessarily the reality, and C&G can come in and make a claim if they want to, and we can take it from there. The other angle that makes sense for me right now is a SvS between the 2 slots.

I didn't notice this mentioned recently. I think it is also important to bring up this sequence where Rad out of nowhere theorizes that C&G+Math as masons "makes a lot of sense". And when basically told that that's ridiculous, his response of "I'm just considering all the possibilities!" is pretty similar to how he acts after called out for how he handles the Bella claim.

Also taking note of this series of posts for if Enchant flips scum:

Spoiler:

But also, he would be a safe person for scum to push. Because no one is ever blamed for his miselim in any game he is miseliminated in.

Luke I think we're having similar thoughts about Enchant.

Here's my "easy targets" list from beginning of d2:

Math
BBT
Enchant
Johnny
PP/BB
Mala
PD

I've been specifically aware of any pushes on those people. Not that any of them are necessarily town that scum wants to push, but that if scum wants to push someone easily, it's likely a town in this list.

Have you been thinking something similar? I only ask because you pointed this out with Enchant so was wondering if you had a list like this.

But also, he would be a safe person for scum to push. Because no one is ever blamed for his miselim in any game he is miseliminated in.

Luke I think we're having similar thoughts about Enchant.

Here's my "easy targets" list from beginning of d2:

Math
BBT
Enchant
Johnny
PP/BB
Mala
PD

I've been specifically aware of any pushes on those people. Not that any of them are necessarily town that scum wants to push, but that if scum wants to push someone easily, it's likely a town in this list.

Have you been thinking something similar? I only ask because you pointed this out with Enchant so was wondering if you had a list like this.

I just wanna say, I am literally having to work with Nancy here to get even one vote on Enchant so this is anything but easy.

My perception of easy and the reality may not match up (though I stand by my perception here).

Do you think there are some easier players for scum to target or is that a ridiculous thought?

I'll give my "hard" list to compare. Do you think if we gladiate Enchant with any of the following players, people would vote anyone over enchant?

Rad
Luke
DP
C&G (note - was made at beginning of d2, I think after the potential lie reveal this is no longer "hard")
Roden
Dwlee

Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.

A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.

So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and

will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone

else

If this is what you were saying, then I totally agree with you

Yes that is my main point.

I believe that scum will go for "hard" targets IF the opportunity provides itself, but most likely it won't, so the easy targets are more likely and I'll pay more attention to those pushes.

Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.

A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.

scum pushing lhf is just basic hunting theory.
who's reasons are bad is what matters

Yeah, it's LHF theory, isn't it. Sorry for being basic

I think I got caught up in Luke's point about Enchant and wanted to explore and confirm it.

It's a kind of weird sequence where he uses Luke's post that mentions Enchant as a springboard to talk about how Enchant (along with a list of others that includes Math) is an easy push and that we should all be watching out for people who push them with bad reasons, while also framing it as Luke's point (despite Luke's point being different) that he is seeking to confirm.

So, couple things.

1. I have low confidence in my ability to scum read, so I do try to consider ALL the possibilities. And for the masons bit - what is scum!Rad hoping to gain from presenting this idea? If c&g is town, why the fuck would scum!Rad present it? And if c&g is scum, why would scum!Rad present it here instead of the scum PT? Like what is scum!Rad hoping to gain from this in either scenario with how it played out? If c&g responded "yes we are masons!" ok sure, you gotta flip c&g after math scum flip and you can consider flipping me, but c&g responded "nope" so wtf was scum!Rad even doing there?

2. I think it's reasonable to be cautious of an "easy push". Doesn't mean scum can't also be an easy push, but I try to be more cautious when someone who I consider is an easy push gets... pushed. Yeah I dunno if announcing it was a great idea. Sometimes I lose my filter.

[Rad]

I’ll save a rad dive till tomorrow when I can actually go through the iso. I want to hear Nancy’s thoughts on Rad as well.

Lololol this is too funny after all so many of my reads have been stellar.

I will re-ISO him but I really think Bella probably visited Math on n1, so gth her RAD visit claim read to me as an attempt to justify Bell visit, so if you think extremely likely that Bella visited Math on n1 and not RAD - and seriously why would Bella heal RAD when he was being extremely hard tr after his posts during gladiate on d1, so scum likely realized Dunn softed vig and therefore it makes the most sense that Bella lied about visiting RAD on n1 and most likely healed Math since he’s rb. Corwin practically locktowned RAD. So without an extensive re-ISOing of RAD, I think it would be weird for Bella to lie about visiting her buddy if he’s scum but I only really trust my reads on certain players and being so wrong on Bella made me doubt how much I can trust some of my reads.

OtH, Taly, Drap, masons, you, BB and now DNA due to that paraphrase are the reads I feel extremely confident on rn. Iow, I would hard veto wagons on them. Other slots, I would have to take into account my own solve + listen to what others are saying.

So will reread RAD tomorrow.

Though I feel a bit bad about you spending time reading 460+ posts, I did the same for you + much of 3 other games, so the idea makes me kinda happy XD It broke my brain reading through all that so we would be equal-ish.

In case you just love reading:

newbie town game: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89529&user_select[]=36603
newbie scum game (replaced in so shorter!): viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89584&user_select[]=36603

(not sure why these links don't open my ISO directly but I tried to link to them)

My other games were 8 years ago on another site.

This is my third game since then

[Rad]

Luke this (and your other recent posts) is why I town read you and scum read Malcolm.

Awww <3

And here I was thinking it would be the cop inno on me.

Lol

lol dude I'm talking about the whole game.

It was more of a sneaky shading of Malcolm, cause I'm devious

[Rad]

RCE bp save makes sense to me *shrug*

Scum should be scared of a town!RCE here and the more town!Luke survives the more scummy he gets.

[Rad]

Drap

- maybe scum assumed doc would be on him and skipped? Or scum is bad and targeted him and doc saved (lol!).

Roden

- totally absent, why kill?

butterchurn

- reasonable kill for sure, he's active and seems smart, probably wishing they targeted him over whoever they targeted

pooky

- probably an easier day flip if town, i don't feel like pooky is a town leader here besides the spreadsheet stuff early

luke

- yeah i dunno, maybe doc was on you luke? but again, the more town!Luke survives, the more sus he becomes. Very specifically town!Luke fits that scenario of "if he's at end game, this guy is scum" kind of scapegoat possibility.

rce

- most have town reads on him, he's active, is open with his reads, might have some PR hunting on killing him, if he survives to end game no one is really all that suspicious (so far)

bb

- apparently no one cares about Ceph's input, if BB is town

[Rad]

RCE is as good a target as Bell was. Both widely town read and not the highest town reads so probably no doc.

Neither are as good as a town!Luke target but if you're trying to avoid doc, and letting luke gain that scummy late game vibe, why not?

Who cares about the masons right now? 1 is absent and 1 is active. The masons are still just a claim. Town can still turn on them even if it's a real claim. Hell, are you 100% sure they're masons? It's an easy claim and they could be scum. We accept them as masons cause the claim as scum is weird. Anyone who mentions a read list lists them as just town cause mason claim but who has actually spelled out why they read them as mason? I think just DP who read dwlee in the past few hours? Might be others that I don't remember, but I don't see them as something scum needs to dispatch immediately. I read butter as town but I've never read Roden as town beyond the claim.

[Rad]

This is too funny.

Titus had Roden as town due to VCA and I told her I’m a pretty decent a reading Dwlee so both are hard town for me both by mech and meta. Titus told me she forgot our convo about that.

Find another masons town read that specifies why they're town beyond the mason claim.

[Rad]

Then you should vote enchant?

[Rad]

sec I'll check the vote count and then reply to your question...

[Rad]

Then you should vote enchant?

I think he's very close to lim already, and I'd prefer to not rush this day

What does the VC have to do with my question @_@

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

enchant:

luke

, bb, bbt, butter, pooky, rce, rad, mala, luke (E-3)
malcolm:

rad

rad:

luke

Luke on enchant, to me, to enchant.

[Rad]

I just think my strongest scumreads (Johnny, BBT) aren't going to get limmed today, so I'm just vibing until we get a flip

Can you point out why Johnny and BBT are scum why I come up with my reads list?

[Rad]

Then you should vote enchant?

I think he's very close to lim already, and I'd prefer to not rush this day

What does the VC have to do with my question @_@

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

enchant:

luke

, bb, bbt, butter, pooky, rce, rad, mala, luke (E-3)
malcolm:

rad

rad:

luke

Luke on enchant, to me, to enchant.

I don't get it, sorry >_<

What don't you get?

If you're asking why I quoted those before the VC...

It's because I pushed you to vote enchant, you said he's very close to lim already, and I said I'd get the VC, and you asked what the VC has to do with your question.

So I gave you the VC since you thought enchant was close to lim. He's at e-3. Is that "close"? If so, ok, stay off I guess. I think e-3 isn't too bad. e-2 and pushing you or e-1, sure.

[Rad]

To clarify, I wanted to give you a VC to show that he wasn't "close" first.

Upcoming is my reads...

[Rad]

Although, who do you think is scum?

Paranoid Me:

Pooky + (luke or tbone) + (malcolm or enchant)

Realistic me (ordered):

Town:
DP
Luke
Drap
RCE

Town Lean:
butterchurn
Johnny
T-Bone
BB
Pooky
Mislim Bait
BBT
Taly
Roden

Null:
CSF
Mala
C&G
OTH

Scum Lean:
Enchant
Malcolm

Scum:
LOL fuck this game

[Rad]

I'll say that Drap has me biased against you CSF (not to blame Drap, I just read him as town and he reads you as scum last I remember so ok!). Also I think DP has claimed you're just town here based on meta. So I'm at a crossroads with you.

I think it'll be good for you to give a vote regardless, here. If you're not comfortable with Enchant cause they're close to flip, how about someone else?

[Rad]

I don't know your meta Enchant. You haven't really done anything this game. I can see a town!Enchant just not caring and being absent for most of the game with little quips here and there. Makes less sense for scum!Enchant. But most people are reading you scum so let's goooooo.

[Rad]

Yeah I think you've mentioned that before.

So what have you done that's pro-town Enchant?

Show us!

[Rad]

Didn't let you all make dumb idiocy and let Bella live

lol fair. But why wasn't that you bussing your scum partner?

Also tell me what you'd have have done if Bella flipped town?

[Rad]

rofl yeah you're just dead here no matter what, aren't you enchant.

Who's responsible?

[Rad]

town!Enchant flipping

[Rad]

town!Enchant flipping

why aren't you unvoting then?

I'm asking Enchant, in the scenario that he's town, who he thinks is responsible

I don't think he flips green here, but if he does, I'd like to know Enchant's POV.

[Rad]

uh ok, so you played poorly is what you're saying?

[Rad]

Can you give us a reads list Enchant? Even if just your top town and scum, if not the whole list.

[Rad]

mmm post 11111 is amazing and I claim it

[Rad]

Tell us more about the rad enchant innocent child scum team. Sounds intriguing.

UNVOTE:

[Rad]

Guess we'll find out soon

[Rad]

VOTE: Enchant

[Rad]

Btw that is e-1 the vote count was wrong, it was 7 and now 3 more.

[Rad]

6 Enchant (Best Bird, BlueBloodedToffee, butterchurn, RCEnigma, Malakittens, Lukewarm, Cat Scratch Fever)

So it's either 6 and names are wrong or it's 7 and count was wrong. Just keep it in mind whoever comes to vote next, it's prob the hammer

[Rad]

I don't fear hammer, i want whoever hammers to know they're the hammer and the vc is misleading

[Rad]

Red is scum indeed

[Rad]

Gg Luke. Guess I'm screwed lol

[Rad]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

[Rad]

Taly's "off the table" list is pretty obvious if you believe the masons are off the table. Are you suspicious of drap or something BB?

[Rad]

Wasn’t going to mention Rad, but I don’t like that post at all.

Mason claims are town because I strongly read Dwlee as town and they’re a package deal. Also like Roden’s posting.

Roden's posting is terrible compared to his town 2095 newbie game. Dwlee was just absent. I do like butterchurn's posting though so I'm conflicted.

edit - yeah I just realized we have 2 butters now... uhhh... guess i'll spell them out for now

[Rad]

ISO Luke and the mod for VCs and flips. Pooky claimed innos on Luke and Tbone. I speak to dead people (ceph rn).

I’m sympathetic, but it’s late and that’s what I have.

Yeah this is good direction.

Also probably should ISO Bella and Math/Corwin if you forget that earlier stuff.

[Rad]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

Why is Mala included here? What does she have to do with this line of thinking?

Mala and roden were both in that game and were both like different people. It's a meta read suspicion on both. The mason claim is specific to roden.

[Rad]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

Man I wish the town thought the same way about me in that game too

Yeah I'm close to voting bbt here. I gave him a pass too long thinking I could read him better but I just can't. I read him town in 2095 without much trouble but this game I haven't been easily convinced 1 way or the other. Just sits there at null and leans back and forth. That's probably a good sign of scum bbt. I just woke up though so going to think about this for a bit.

[Rad]

If you could explain, FYPOV, how me sitting at null is a 'good sign' of scum BBT that would be great.

Because I read you as town easily in 2095 and you had the same vibe there as you had in 2097. I haven't seen that vibe from you here which is what I was waiting for. You're just passive and reactionary here while you pressure and are more involved in those other games. I'm thinking that's probably a good sign of scum!bbt.

[Rad]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

Newbie games and games in any other queue are completely different and slots will play them as such.

Yeah well I'm not. This is just my town game where I'm too open with my thoughts which gets me into trouble.

Let me quote 2095 Roden with some of his insight I thought was on point.

I say this having done that as scum. It's a consistently solid strategy to just play passively and town read volatile townies while town cannablizes itself for you.

Yeah this is the extent of my scum game right now. I did this with furtive last game and don't see why I wouldn't be doing that here if I was scum. Instead, I'm just attacking everyone at different times because I have no idea who is scum. Or maybe you buy into Malcolm's theory of me spreading shade across everyone openly while defending my partners. Yeah, not in my scum range right now but that's cool.

[Rad]

im ngl im half tempted to vote off rad just so I can troll lukewarm about his reads if rad flips town[and if rad flips scum its just a bonus]

Troll him after game when I'm alive and town and town won

[Rad]

[
I believe I have a good feel for the difference between scum!BBT and town!BBT, but he'll have to ramp up his activity before I can test that theory. He's just null right now. His town and scum play is pretty similar, so it's not really a meta read per se, it's just that his intuition comes out differently as town vs scum.

This you?

Yeah and then 400 pages happened and I lost your tone. So reading 2095 helped remind me what town bbt looks like.

[Rad]

rad if you were going to catch a scumbag and actually put together a scumcase on someone, today's probly the last chance you got buddy

Yeah I mentioned that at beginning of day. I get that I'm today's lim. Hell I'd flip me here. It would be impressive if town keeps me alive due to smart town. Cause I flip green and the only hope for me is smart town.

End of the day this isn't my scum game. I think both RCE and BBT should know that here even if they're town but meh, reads are hard. I'm sticking with my hard town read on RCE regardless of where he ends up on me.

[Rad]

Town Lean:
butterchurn
Johnny
T-Bone
BB
Pooky
Mislim Bait
BBT
Taly
Roden

What changed your read on me since here, Rad?

2095 read happened

[Rad]

You don't think I pressured and was more involved in our Newbie game where I was scum?

You did it differently. I noticed the difference in 2097 and 2095 helped confirm it. You're a town leader and help push information out of people. Haven't seen that here, but it's a long fucking game and I lack confidence in this read.

[Rad]

would be impressive if town keeps me alive due to smart town

flattery is not going to get you anywhere buddy

as the leader of this town I am committed to a plan of maximum stupidity

Lol it's just the reality. I won my first game as town because dead town had good reads and Bella was able to figure the game out and not flip me. That's just how shit is right now for town me.

I won my scum game by not angering furtive while bbt continued to piss him off.

Not sure why I'd attack everyone here like I have if scum but it's fine, it's my bad town play regardless.

[Rad]

viewtopic.php?p=13427572#p13427572

Here C&G ^^^

'I'll admit that I didn't know how to read BBT last game and I'm having the same difficulty this game. If I relied on meta, this game feels identical to how he played in my last game with him where he was scum. I think that's weak reasoning though so I'm coming into this game with a null read on him.'

Taken from the linked post above.

I see.
It is very similar though Rad replaced in during that game which means that it could've been Rad thinking that prior to being in the game, making it NAI.
-Guanine

Correct. I actually read that game 100% before I replaced in, so my thoughts in that first post were inherently from a townie perspective. I leaned on that townie perspective the entire game. I turned on BBT later not because he suspected me, but because I had to keep furtive my ally and I only had a couple options. I pushed harder on my other option (TL who was pure lurker) than on BBT and only pushed BBT when I had to.

[Rad]

TBH I wouldn't say that I dislike much of what Rad has done except for mainly his 11193 and the similarities to his scumgame that BBT has mentioned before.
And the problem with 11193 is mainly because I felt like it was shading Roden.
But then Rad seems to justified in saying in 11281 that scum!him won't beattacking everybody.
Also, I'm really going to sleep now.
-Guanine

Let's be clear. I'm shading Roden for sure. His 2095 is drastically different than here and I want that known. I doubt he'd even disagree regardless of his alignment this game. town!Roden here is just being complacent due to being mason confirmed. scum!Roden lied about being a mason and is kicked back trying not to stir the pot. Both options are completely different than the 2095 Roden.

I'm also shading Mala for the drastic difference with 2095. I think 11229 is reasonable, but I also thought the plan with waiting a day on Bella was reasonable, so whatever. That ties up Drap for the night as well, and if Drap gets targeted and dies, we're stuck with unconfirmed Mala and dead Drap with no way of confirming beyond something silly like BB talks to someone Mala targets... So yeah, it gets convoluted, so maybe a bad plan.

Regarding the similarities BBT pointed out (me turning on him after he suspected me or whatever), 11287 explains why that's wrong, but you can look at that and consider it after you've slept.

[Rad]

Ordered.

Town:
butterflies
Drap
RCE

Town Lean:
Taly
Johnny
Pooky
T-Bone
BB
Mislim Bait
C&G
butterchurn

Null:
CSF
OTH
BBT
Roden

Scum Lean:
Malcolm
Mala

[Rad]

Yeah and then 400 pages happened and I lost your tone. So reading 2095 helped remind me what town bbt looks like.

Doesn't respond to what I'm saying. You said you have a good feel for the difference between my town and my scum game. Now, after 400 odd pages, you're saying I'm null and you can't read me.

You see the problem with these two statements, yes?

Yes, 400 pages of not knowing your alignment has thrown me off, and the easy town read of your 2095 made me start questioning this game further.

scum BBT probably doesn't jump off my wagon here so quickly though. I'm fully justifiable for scum to push today. Bell scum read me. Luke died scum reading me. I will be limmed at some point for those facts alone.

Corwin and Bella held me as their top town reads openly. I just glanced through BBT's ISO again for mentions of me, he had 1 early list where I was listed as town but for the most part, our interactions are mostly clashes. In his scum game, he moreso worked towards manipulating me than pushing me. Doesn't mean he's guaranteed to try to pocket me as scum, but I don't see why he wouldn't here.

BBT was 1 of 4 (with me, DP, and RCE) defending the Bella wait a day strategy. If there's 1 scum in that group it's probably BBT but I seriously doubt any scum would be so bold as to openly defend Bella when she was caught red handed by tracker. Maybe if that group was like 8 people or something, scum would be trying to fit in, but it's such a weird thing for BBT who many have a scum lean on to jump in the tiny "save Bella!" group when he knows Bella's going to flip red.

[Rad]

VOTE: Malcolm

Absolutely

[Rad]

Best explanation for Bella reading csf hard town is that csf is town. I realize that's convenient for me given Bella's read on me, but the easiest thing for scum to do is to take a town member and openly read them town, cause it's just a correct read. It's much riskier for scum to openly read other scum as town because those scum aren't going to be nearly as townie. I think it makes the most sense that scum read other scum as null or even lean scum, especially early game where this will give distancing and also make their reads look better than if they're reading inherently scummy stuff as townie.

[Rad]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

[Rad]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

[Rad]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

I typically vote quite sparingly in most games. My reasoning on Math was consistent - I thought their frustration looked pretty genuine early on but gradually started to get the vibe it was being forced. I don't think my vote was particularly opportunistic or that Math was even guaranteed to be eliminated by the time I voted there? Even though it was the most likely elimination. And I voted for Bella because that was clearly the best vote.

Also - you include my Taly vote here and lump it in as likely town, while ignoring the fact that I voted for Taly in a gladiate where we know the other player was town. I'm leaning town on Taly anyway but that can hardly be described as an opportunistic nothing vote on a townie when I could've actively voted for someone we 100%, absolutely know was town instead in retrospect.

Fair on the Taly point. I think voting Ceph was the more townie thing to do there though given the emotions at the time and state of the game, but it's fine.

Roden's probably just mason. Most people seem to believe johnny's probably just town. I know I'm town and you just relentlessly call me scum. So from my perspective, you've just voted for town all game except the 2 votes where you landed on scum out of nowhere.

[Rad]

has malcom ever gave a tier list

3027 here he posts his early list with some updates to it. I don't see any more full lists.

[Rad]

VOTE: rad

Yo BB what's your read on Malcolm?

[Rad]

VOTE: rad

Yo BB what's your read on Malcolm?

town enough for now....why?

Because I want the guy who's supposedly talking to Ceph in a PT to give his opinion on my scum read? "town enough for now" as the reasoning is so disappointing.

What's Ceph's read on me and Malcolm?

[Rad]

VOTE: rad

Yo BB what's your read on Malcolm?

town enough for now....why?

Because I want the guy who's supposedly talking to Ceph in a PT to give his opinion on my scum read? "town enough for now" as the reasoning is so disappointing.

What's Ceph's read on me and Malcolm?

Why does me being in a PT with Ceph impact your view of my opinion of your scum read?

Because town!bb with ceph's opinion matters. I'm not 100% convinced of my Malcolm read and want to know what you and ceph think about him.

[Rad]

Lol

I believe in Johnny. Let's narrow that down some more buddy.

[Rad]

wow a 12 person poe in a 18 alive list how heroic of you

so glad we could remove the basically cleared people from your list...impressive.

Lol

I believe in Johnny. Let's narrow that down some more buddy.

You all can feel free to say who you'd take off

Johnny's

PoE...

I gave my list <3

[Rad]

Ordered.

Town:
butterflies
Drap
RCE

Town Lean:
Taly
Johnny
Pooky
T-Bone
BB
Mislim Bait
C&G
butterchurn

Null:
CSF
OTH
BBT
Roden

Scum Lean:
Malcolm
Mala

Talk to me about

Mislim Bait/BB

townreads.

Why do you think it's so likely that the masons could be fakeclaiming when there's so many other players to look at?

Regarding

Mislim Bait:

I have a really dumb theory about why Klick dropped that I won't even go over until end game, that's probably influencing me some, but I try not to let it.

Besides my dumb town!klick theory, I think mislim bait's just playing really townie. His entry showed clear signs of reading through ISOs and openly discussing conclusions. We've come to a lot of the same conclusions here and there. He calls people out for appropriate reasons, not just bs reasons that scum like to cling onto. He's just super townie IMO.

Regarding

BB:

I don't hard town read BB. I think I misplaced him above, or rather, I think I should have moved mislim bait up a few, and then BB is probably in the right position there. I think his PR claim is probably just true and too risky as scum. I don't think he's been particularly townie this game tbh, but I also don't know his play style. He's very sit back and judge here. Maybe that's just his play style, I dunno. If BB/PP is more town-leader type in other games, I might read him scum more here because he's just not that at all. But I sort of expect someone with a lot of experience to potentially play the way BB has played here, which makes his play sort of AI, but with the PR claim that seems too ridiculous to be scum. If BB flipped scum I wouldn't be surprised but I also don't have a scum read on him in general. It's like null with a town lean due to "probably just town with that claim."

Regarding the masons

:

It's a mix of Roden's play here and his play in the newbie 2095 game. I think I've mentioned here at least once, if not more, that Roden's only town to me because of the mason claim. Nothing he's done here has read town to me. 2095 pushed that thought even further and anyone who knows that game or reads it now should think the same.

That said, the mason claim is probably just true, and I have a town read on butterchurn's play so far. Also Nancy has a hard meta town read on dwlee and I believe nancy is just town here. So there's lots going for the mason claim just being true.

If I can jump start a town!Roden to play better, great, awesome. Let's fucking go. We're missing out on town!Roden's and town!Mala's best play here if either are town.

If I caught scum!Roden playing it safe with a fake claim, then I hope people who are better than me at this game can come to that conclusion as well. I was considering the masons a potential fake claim before and the 2095 comparison just really spotlighted it for me, and I wanted to share that. Without a mason claim, I vote Roden as scum for sure.

[Rad]

lol this is so wild

we all know luke wanted to murder rad

Yep both Bell and Luke read me scum. Luke not the entire time, but at the end, sure.

[Rad]

I can't find it now, but someone asked me about why I rank butterchurn and roden differently in my reads list (I read this while I was out and couldn't respond to it then, and now I can't find the post).

My answer is that I read the play of butterchurn separate from roden because I'm not 100% trusting in the mason call, so I'm trying to find scum play in them aside from it. Obviously if the mason claim is fake they're just both scum, and if it's real, they're just both town. But there's no way to know if it's fake without a flip or mechanics, so I'm trying to read them separately.

I read butterchurn even higher before but let's be clear, I'm the ideal mislim here, and he's one of the people on me. Yeah town are going to be on me too, because I make sense in general to flip after Bell and Luke got NK'd. But there aren't many people jumping on me right now and he's one of them. I'd expect scum to push my mislim here, so it makes me lose some of my town read on him. It's the opposite of my read on BBT where he jumped off due to specific reasons when it's incredibly easy to justify just sitting on me here as scum.

I read roden as lower due to reasons I've already stated.

[Rad]

That's kind of worse for you though Rad

Oh I know. I dunno if scum killed Bell and Luke specifically to frame me or for some other reason, but the end result points to scum!Rad killing people who read him scum. Probably some mix of them being solid NKs anyway and the benefit of me being the easy mislim for it.

[Rad]

That's kind of worse for you though Rad

I mean...

Gg Luke. Guess I'm screwed lol

I dunno how I'm still alive but it's fun anyway

[Rad]

r u going to like scumcase someone or what dude

Malcolm's doing the same scummy shit that I pointed out before. Go read that.

Mala's playing infinitely different than the newbie 2095 game and doesn't have a mason claim to back it up.

Pick one.

[Rad]

Rad, why is best bird's claim too ririculous to be scum?

I'm having a hard time knowing what to believe with regards to claims.

Do you think it's not too ridiculous? Does scum!BB make that claim when he did? For what reason?

[Rad]

For that matter, Pooky did you decide if your ability to determine if he's talking to Ceph falls within site rules?

[Rad]

@Roden RCE's playing so different than my scum game with him. What's giving you a scum read on him?

[Rad]

Rad have you read any other games of mine that wasn't 2095 or are you basing your entire read on me off of one game

Entirely just 2095, but I'm getting kinda excited that you seem to be waking up

[Rad]

Rad, why is best bird's claim too ririculous to be scum?

I'm having a hard time knowing what to believe with regards to claims.

Do you think it's not too ridiculous? Does scum!BB make that claim when he did? For what reason?

I don't see why it even has to be a fake claim? Although i guess it's not super useful for scum to talk to dead people unless their buddy is super good at coaching or something

But you also don't really have a way to verify he's has a PT and isn't a scum checking the dead person's role thing

Kind of blanking right now

Im inclined to believe it but i don't think it's too ririculous - that's an interesting characterization

I can't fathom why scum!BB would be given the PR to talk to dead people.

I guess scum!BB could find out a dead person's role or target and then potentially manipulate town with that info however they chose to.

I had never thought of something like that. For me, it was either town!BB is telling the truth or scum!BB is lying.

[Rad]

I've seen a scum role that can talk to dead players actually.

and Best Bird isn't even that townie tbh

yeah no shit BB isn't townie. I've given him a pass based on "why would scum claim that role"

[Rad]

@Roden RCE's playing so different than my scum game with him. What's giving you a scum read on him?

RCE replaced Toad, who I scum read. I don't feel confident in the read though so I'm not hard pushing there.

Rad have you read any other games of mine that wasn't 2095 or are you basing your entire read on me off of one game

Entirely just 2095, but I'm getting kinda excited that you seem to be waking up

Not to self meta since I don't like it, but that game isn't how I usually play. Some games I enter and I'm on point and die early for it. Other times I'm really off and never gain any momentum and just get dragged along for the ride.

2095 was a somewhat unique game because I was Cop and had to be proactive but not spot on with my reads so I don't die. But it was a newbie game so I died because it just doesn't work that way there.

My play here is because I'm a Mason in a game with a million players and my reads have been bad so I'm just staying low key and sheeping my town reads while occasionally giving content.

To town!Roden - let me say, you got a little tunnel visioned on furtive but you played awesome. I haven't read anyone town as quickly as I read you in 2095. No joke. You're an asset if active town absolutely. We really have just a few people pushing for information here and could use more.

Same goes to town!Mala TBH. Like a different person.

As for The Toad @Roden, I also had a scum read on him until he stepped up and I lost it. Then RCE came in and I just feel this is probably town RCE. I haven't seen what town RCE looks like but scum RCE in my game played very calculated and patient. I'm not seeing that here.

[Rad]

Flip me baby

[Rad]

Try harder. I believe in you.

[Rad]

Johnny give me your confidence or lack thereof. Vote if not confident!

edit - wasn't pooky already voting me? I forget but though he was.

[Rad]

oooh no pooky is a new vote. Hot. I love it.

[Rad]

Johnny give me your confidence or lack thereof. Vote if not confident!

Is you asking me to vote somebody or to vote you? I'm down for both honestly

Saying vote me if you think I'm scum dude. It's ok, I forgive you.

Or you can join my Malcolm wagon. Or you can present a Mala wagon. Or you can present some case on some other wagon. All sound great.

[Rad]

I can't fathom why scum!BB would be given the PR to talk to dead people.

I guess scum!BB could find out a dead person's role or target and then potentially manipulate town with that info however they chose to.

I had never thought of something like that. For me, it was either town!BB is telling the truth or scum!BB is lying.

I guess I find this a bit hard to believe considering this:

luke town reads Mala in 78/166 from Mala's 2 opening posts. 2. opening. posts. I was thinking about Mala's potential power claim - being able to talk to the dead? Intitially sounds like a townie type power, but what if it's a scum power? That would be really powerful as well, being able to talk to the dead and make up dead town reads as they see fit. Plus I think you'd be more likely to just let that one slip early as scum to try to look like a town claim, cause if you're town and you just gave away a huge power like that, you're not even going to get a chance to use it as you're most likely going to be the first NK. So I'm not sure where this town read is coming from beyond potentially reading that power as a town power and not thinking it through?

The difference is BB straight up claimed it and Mala hinted at it in post 1 and then proceeded to joke for the next 400 pages and claimed something else later.

[Rad]

VOTE: Rad

Call it tough love

Forgiven

[Rad]

I can't fathom why scum!BB would be given the PR to talk to dead people.

I guess scum!BB could find out a dead person's role or target and then potentially manipulate town with that info however they chose to.

I had never thought of something like that. For me, it was either town!BB is telling the truth or scum!BB is lying.

I guess I find this a bit hard to believe considering this:

luke town reads Mala in 78/166 from Mala's 2 opening posts. 2. opening. posts. I was thinking about Mala's potential power claim - being able to talk to the dead? Intitially sounds like a townie type power, but what if it's a scum power? That would be really powerful as well, being able to talk to the dead and make up dead town reads as they see fit. Plus I think you'd be more likely to just let that one slip early as scum to try to look like a town claim, cause if you're town and you just gave away a huge power like that, you're not even going to get a chance to use it as you're most likely going to be the first NK. So I'm not sure where this town read is coming from beyond potentially reading that power as a town power and not thinking it through?

Actually I just read my earlier post and wow, I totally nailed the idea there. But it's a month later and I totally forgot. This is a sick catch actually csf. I mean I'm still town but damn, I totally forgot about that.

[Rad]

Ftr I think Mala and BB are prolly both town. We knew dead folks could do some business from the jump, so both their claims come off as too ballsy for scum

Cool why is Mala town? Cause too ballsy, that's it?

CSF has some words for you.

[Rad]

Johnny are you voting me based on thinking your reads have been bad?

Do you have a scum read on me or are you just countering your reads cause you think you're just consistently wrong this game?

[Rad]

butterflies
Taly
Off the Hook
Rad
RCEnigma
Mislim Bait
Cytosine and Guanine
Cat Scratch Fever

We're getting there people

CSF has some words for you.

Oh has this already been discussed? This game is long

How do you read Nancy scum here? That's insane dude.

[Rad]

I'm voting you cuz you told me to silly

Unvote me please thanks

[Rad]

I take Nancy town to the grave here because of day1. If this is nancy's scum range then consider me ready for next scum!nancy game but I refuse here.

[Rad]

Ftr I think Mala and BB are prolly both town. We knew dead folks could do some business from the jump, so both their claims come off as too ballsy for scum

Knowing it from the jump, and believing that scum couldn't come up with that claim, does not compute.

[Rad]

VOTE: Rad

Call it tough love

weren't you townreading Rad?

Johnny are you voting me based on thinking your reads have been bad?

Do you have a scum read on me or are you just countering your reads cause you think you're just consistently wrong this game?

mm yes that's the question here

[Rad]

weren't you townreading Rad?

Yeah like 20000 posts ago? Rad and I even talked yesterday about how I'm losing confidence there

Rad better not be scum tho, I can only be so wrong

By 20000 you mean today, 186 posts ago.

[Rad]

weren't you townreading Rad?

Yeah like 20000 posts ago? Rad and I even talked yesterday about how I'm losing confidence there

Rad better not be scum tho, I can only be so wrong

By 20000 you mean today, 186 posts ago.

11376 was the first time i got the impression you though I was scum.

The previous mention before 11333 was 10774 where you pointed out that I don't appear to be associated with any flipped scum.

[Rad]

I gotta go to sleep now so I'll end tonight with this.

Town, hello. Why does scum!Rad kill Bell and Luke who are reading him as scum? It's ridiculous and obvious. scum!Rad's plan there is to do that so I can, right now, claim that it's ridiculous and obvious. This is the move that scum!Rad has been planning since the Bell flip, in a large game with 4 other scum partners, after 2 newbies where I 1. as town push dead town players' reads to win the game and 2. as scum focus heavily on the 1 player that I thought I could pocket into a win.

If this is scum!Rad following what's proven to work I've chosen Nancy as that 1 player. Is pocketing Nancy here the winning move for scum!Rad? Point to someone else scum!Rad has pocketed here. Johnny maybe? Lol. And scum!Rad pockets Nancy via pushing Nancy and then crossing his fingers that Nancy backs off and we can be pocket friends.

If this is town!Rad I'm just openly chasing ideas left and right with no focus because I do not understand how to focus yet. I go out of my way to read other games with players who are in this one. That includes a bunch of Nancy games and some newbie games focusing on Luke and Roden/Mala/BBT.

I'm today's mislim. I get it if I have to be flipped to prove it but me being the mislim is just the fact. I don't think it would even be super obvious who is scum on my mislim. Scum could wait until town started the mislim to jump on. Scum could just do it because it's super justifiable.

I think we got basically 1 good read out of this so far and that's BBT. NO reason to get off my wagon here as scum.

There's probably some town defending me too and I'll try to figure that out tomorrow.

For now I wanted to leave this in case spicy shit happens over night while I'm asleep.

[Rad]

That leaves;

Butterflies
Malcolm
OtH
Mislim
Best Bird

I'm up for Malcolm and starting to consider BB. Reading through his ISO atm.

Hard pass on Butterflies for me, and Nancy reads OTH hard town so I'm not interested in that either. I think Mislim's probably town.

[Rad]

I have a really dumb theory about why Klick dropped that I won't even go over until end game, that's probably influencing me some, but I try not to let it.

Me too! I wonder if we have the same reason?!?!

Would "Klick the honorable" make sense with your theory?

[Rad]

This just feels like weak acceptance trying to shake off votes...especially when the game state at the time this was posted was:

Whatever, pointing out that timing is nonsense. I was the first to point out my likely mislim as soon as day started and we saw Luke was the NK. I will do anything I can to shake off votes.

[Rad]

You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.

I think this is a bit early. Who knows how BBT handles future flips?

What BBT is saying is he has a scum read on you and he knows no one else is interested because most of us have a strong meta town read on you. And I think that's accurate. As the game goes on meta becomes outweighed by actions and if he still has a scum read on you later, you'll be easier to push. I think it's a reasonable thing to mention as town!BBT. I don't see why scum!BBT wouldn't have just kept it to himself and pushed you later.

[Rad]

You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.

I think this is a bit early. Who knows how BBT handles future flips?

What BBT is saying is he has a scum read on you and he knows no one else is interested because most of us have a strong meta town read on you. And I think that's accurate. As the game goes on meta becomes outweighed by actions and if he still has a scum read on you later, you'll be easier to push. I think it's a reasonable thing to mention as town!BBT. I don't see why scum!BBT wouldn't have just kept it to himself and pushed you later.

Are we not reading the same posts? Point me to where he has given even the slightest indication of re-evaluating my slot?

You're assuming he won't. I don't think that's a great assumption and I think this is a TvT that should just stop. If BBT comes at you later in the game with some shit case that doesn't properly reflect new information then you should absolutely point out that fact then.

[Rad]

I think he just has a strong scum read on you and doubts you'll do anything to change his mind.

If you do something in the future that should have clearly changed his mind, and he doesn't change it and pushes you anyway, then you can point it out then.

If you think he's scum NOW, alright, that's your call. I do not.

The re-evaluate point is also just kinda weird here. I think both scum and town HAVE to re-evaluate throughout the game and tbh, scum is probably more likely to re-evaluate more often so they're pushing the best mislim at any point, which changes over time. The idea that scum!BBT is just going to openly not re-evaluate you for the rest of the game would just get him flipped eventually. If that's scum!BBT's plan here, to just lazily wait to push you until later with no re-evaluation whatsoever, great, we'll see it happen later in the game.

[Rad]

Yeah I'm hesitant to openly discuss because it's probably just against the rules, and even if it's not against the rules, it's just speculation that could be absolutely wrong and NAI. But it's funny both me and BBT had the same theory so we can laugh about it post game. I do feel it affects my read on mislim a bit but I can't help that, and also I think mislim's totally townie regardless.

[Rad]

Rate my 11536 post in D&D role/alignment terms T-Bone

[Rad]

True neutral, the actual most evil alignment

Oh shit I'm reading up on this and I think it's just me IRL lol

[Rad]

Aside from me flailing and defending myself poorly T-Bone, what do you think of the rest of my play lately?

[Rad]

I think what bugs me more than anything about either Rad or Nancy is this like, obtuse indignance toward those suspecting them.

For Rad it's the "OK but do you have OTHER reasons to think I'm scum or just those?" And for Nancy it's the "Anyone with a brain can see I'm town here so the fact they're not looking elsewhere is obviously scum indicative"

My bad. I'll try harder to keep my emotions in check. I tend to get pissed off when people assign wrong emotions to me or reasoning that's just bullshit and I should just hold those reactions back. Like I don't just automatically read anyone as scum when I get read as scum, it depends how they do it, and it probably doesn't help anyone when I react openly to it.

[Rad]

If tbone is scum then pooky is scum. If tbone is town then pooky could still be scum. Flipping tbone probably doesn't make sense here if you doubt the pooky claim.

[Rad]

I’ll save a rad dive till tomorrow when I can actually go through the iso. I want to hear Nancy’s thoughts on Rad as well.

I'm kind of interested in RCE's read on Rad, since they were scum together

Me too. Did you ever get around to it RCE?

[Rad]

If tbone is scum then pooky is scum. If tbone is town then pooky could still be scum. Flipping tbone probably doesn't make sense here if you doubt the pooky claim.

Wait what did Pooky claim?

2 shot cop that cleared Luke and T-Bone as town

[Rad]

what's up friends

I am a novice two shot cop

T-Bone & Lukewarm are town

I checked with Dragons I am confirmed sane

[Rad]

The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

Yeah it's not scummy to scum read me due to Bella + Bell/Luke NKs. But let's assume I'm town here. Certainly there's at least 1 scum on me due to those justifiable reasons. Who is it?

[Rad]

The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

Yeah it's not scummy to scum read me due to Bella + Bell/Luke NKs. But let's assume I'm town here. Certainly there's at least 1 scum on me due to those justifiable reasons. Who is it?

Nope, that’s not a given. My current scumreads are bbt (I’m wavering), OTH, CSF.

Malcolm is an outside reach but at the present moment Lukes read on Malcolm is going to trump a case against him.

Also idk why like is in the non voting slots in the VC.

I said certainly before, but let's change that to "likely." You don't think in the scenario where I'm town with the Bella/Bell/Luke game state pointing to scum!Rad that one of the people on my wagon are likely scum? Do you town read everyone on my wagon?

I have stronger town reads on both BBT and CSF due to their reading me town specifically during the time where my wagon was ramping up. Do you think that's misguided?

[Rad]

I was just about to comment on that, but no I did not.

I think I’m just going to go with my gut and say rad!town.

My first impression was town, your associations are not great with math or with Bella. I had some doubts on day 2 I remember, I can’t recall specific posts but I do remember thinking yeah Rad could just be scum here. Latter half of day 2 it picked back up. The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

It’s sort of in the same boat as, I should be scumreading Nancy’s slot for convincing me Bella could be town but Nancy is just town so.

You should only trust my reads when it comes to slots I would actually veto. That means I 100% know what I’m talking about. I still would absolutely veto OtH, Taly, Drap the most, then followed by masons, DNA, you, maybe Pooky, BN, T-Bone. Think Johnny is town from antiBella associatives and CSF looks to be solvey.

~Nancyfly

So this is Nancy's scum pool:

Rad
BBT
Pooky (maybe)
Mislim Bait
Malcolm
Mala

Let's hit Malcolm Nancy

[Rad]

My current list, ordered:

Town:
butterflies
Drap
RCE
CSF
BBT

Town Lean:
Taly
Johnny
Pooky
T-Bone
Mislim Bait
C&G
butterchurn
Roden

Null:
BB
OTH

Scum Lean:
Malcolm
Mala

[Rad]

I was just about to comment on that, but no I did not.

I think I’m just going to go with my gut and say rad!town.

My first impression was town, your associations are not great with math or with Bella. I had some doubts on day 2 I remember, I can’t recall specific posts but I do remember thinking yeah Rad could just be scum here. Latter half of day 2 it picked back up. The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

It’s sort of in the same boat as, I should be scumreading Nancy’s slot for convincing me Bella could be town but Nancy is just town so.

You should only trust my reads when it comes to slots I would actually veto. That means I 100% know what I’m talking about. I still would absolutely veto OtH, Taly, Drap the most, then followed by masons, DNA, you, maybe Pooky, BN, T-Bone. Think Johnny is town from antiBella associatives and CSF looks to be solvey.

~Nancyfly

So this is Nancy's scum pool:

Rad
BBT
Pooky (maybe)
Mislim Bait
Malcolm
Mala

Let's hit Malcolm Nancy

Pooky’s not in my scumpool, so I don’t understand how you got that from my post? and I’m not currently worried about MB.

maybe Pooky

...

[Rad]

quoted wrong post:

maybe Pooky

[Rad]

quoted wrong post:

maybe Pooky

Maybe VETO Pooky, not maybe vote him.

So who from the scum pool I listed besides Pooky are you willing to vote here? I'm guessing just BBT? Anyone else?

[Rad]

Is anyone down for a Hook CFD?

Well it’s not a CFD but it’s a wagon switch.

No, absolutely not, I hard veto that. Did you even check out my links?

What about Best Bird whom I tracked to no one Night 3.

I might be down for BB vote but what does you not tracking him to N3 have to do with anything? He didn't claim he targeted anyone with his skill.

[Rad]

and if he's town he no visited n3...

[Rad]

You'd only spot him visiting a new target though right? You wouldn't spot him chatting with Ceph for example, who he's already targeted and has a PT with (supposedly). So BB who doesn't target someone new would be shown to not do anything right?

[Rad]

Dear god I’m about to lose it with this town.

Bro if you're town chill. Be a mentor or some shit.

[Rad]

Drap you clear now on BB?

[Rad]

Actually, this makes Pooky’s novice cop shot also more believable.

Why?

[Rad]

Actually, this makes Pooky’s novice cop shot also more believable.

Why?

Because both BB and Pooky have claimed a two shot.

What does that have to do with anything? Why can't one of them be a 2 shot and the other be something else or nothing? Why can't town!BB be a 2 shot and scum!Pooky also claim a 2 shot? Why can't scum!BB fake claim 2 shot and town!Pooky actually be a 2 shot?

[Rad]

so the fact that he immediately became a leading option after Luke's death doesn't sit right with me.

Consider a town!Rad scenario

I've seen Miselim Bait's name thrown around, and I really don't think that Klick's interactions with Bella are partnered, especially 3896 I think never comes from someone partnered with both Bella and MathBlade.

I agree

BBT's conversations with Bella don't seem partnered to me either.

Yup

I don't agree that Johnny should be off the table, nothing there seems partnered, and as far as I know there's nothing to support Drap's belief that they are a doctor, so I will continue to ignore that until given reason not to.

I also don't understand the johnny doc read, but I lean town on johnny

C&G is also an option, but a weaker one, since some of the interactions make them less likely as a partner to the flipped scum. I don't think it rules them out, though.

Consider town!Rad and CSF's posts lately. Even if you end up on scum!Rad here please consider what town!Rad means with CSF's posts.

[Rad]

- C&G is also an option, but a weaker one, since some of the interactions make them less likely as a partner to the flipped scum. I don't think it rules them out, though.

Whoops I thought you said csf in that last point, not c&g. (I'm so sleepy) I lean town on c&g for some other reasons but can see that read being potentially wrong.

[Rad]

I have stronger town reads on both BBT and CSF due to their reading me town specifically during the time where my wagon was ramping up. Do you think that's misguided?

I think it's a self-centering line of thinking, which doesn't help me sort you because that's not a particularly indicative mindset to be in, nor is it very convincing in regards to their alignment because I don't know yours

Yeah it doesn't help you sort me, but it helps me sort bbt and csf, unless it's a misguided line of thinking.

[Rad]

"you're fixated on this slot"

Where else did I do this besides you? I genuinely don't remember. Was it Luke? Cause if so, cool, I was right. I'll call it out when I feel someone is conf biasing me which I considered you were doing earlier in the game.

[Rad]

my mislim failed, we're murdering malcolm instead

[Rad]

I think Drap's the only one hardcore believing in town!Rad at this point.

[Rad]

my mislim failed, we're murdering malcolm instead

We aren’t. I may have called you possible town but I’d still vote you before I vote out Malcolm today tbh.

Yeah I get it. I still think Malcolm's scum and we should flip him, but yeah I get why you'd flip me over Malcolm.

[Rad]

I think Drap's the only one hardcore believing in town!Rad at this point.

What about yourself?

Indeed. I believe in town!Rad. Go me.

[Rad]

I think what bugs me more than anything about either Rad or Nancy is this like, obtuse indignance toward those suspecting them.

For Rad it's the "OK but do you have OTHER reasons to think I'm scum or just those?" And for Nancy it's the "Anyone with a brain can see I'm town here so the fact they're not looking elsewhere is obviously scum indicative"

My bad. I'll try harder to keep my emotions in check. I tend to get pissed off when people assign wrong emotions to me or reasoning that's just bullshit and I should just hold those reactions back. Like I don't just automatically read anyone as scum when I get read as scum, it depends how they do it, and it probably doesn't help anyone when I react openly to it.

Oh you're going to love me sweetie.

-ButterFlea(s)

You seem fun. I like fun!

[Rad]

Hey Malcolm, do you lean scum on any of the following?

Mala, OTH, BB

[Rad]

Hey Malcolm, do you lean scum on any of the following?

Mala, OTH, BB

I don’t understand the srs on either OtH or BB and would hard veto both of them.

Mala then Nancy?

[Rad]

VOTE: Mala

Let's get something going then. Both the Rad and Malcolm wagons are going no where. I'll admit that me and malcolm could just be an extended TvT with conf bias on both sides. Mala's meta difference here from the game I read is incredibly obvious, she's really not done much of anything this game even outside any sort of meta read (meta just shows me that she's fully capable of being analytical and super townie), her PR claim isn't alignment indicative anyway even if we had a way to prove it was true. I tried to prod her to become more active and that hasn't played out.

[Rad]

I'm guessing that's a bad idea due to there potentially being a doc, but I'll accept whatever the consensus decision is since I really don't have any sort of grasp on that strategy

[Rad]

Does flavor claim help town at all? Town can sit here and try to figure out what each person is based on their flavor, and scum knows exactly which people they care about and can think about those people's flavor specifically. Seems bad for town and good for scum?

[Rad]

Lets see how fun we can be then. Looks like you're my hook.

Give me your breakdown of the game would you? Looks like you've been in a few holes.

-Butterflea

Sure I can do that later tonight.

[Rad]

Give me your breakdown of the game would you? Looks like you've been in a few holes.

For our new Nancy partner:

This is mostly from memory. I'm sure I missed lots of important stuff. I tried to hit all the main big points that I could remember. I'm sure it's in some way Rad heavy cause, hi, that's me and that's how my memory works. If anyone wants to jump in and add stuff, please do. I actually got some things ordered wrong as I was making this (particularly day 3 and 4) but I think I got them in the right places now.

Day 1

- C&G claim 100 word post restriction immediately.
- Mala fake claims she can talk to dead people but backs off on that later
- Luke vs Rad starts off some more serious discussion
- Luke and Rad team up vs Corwin, Rad researches Corwin and comes up with scum case, doesn't really go anywhere
- Roden wagon gets run up at some point and he claims mason with Dwlee (now butterchurn). Dwlee is pure lurker, people back off the wagon.
- Frogster's very loud throughout the day, many people with scum reads on him, Pooky in particular wants Frog dead by end of D1.
- Frogster claims Role Cop, does some sort of "gotcha" trap using Luke, yelling about him being role cop and that everyone needed to immediately get off his wagon, it was really weird and confusing and just made frog look even more scummy
- Ceph does a gladiate where he chooses his top town reads to choose between 4 people (Math, DP which is now butterflies, Taly, and Johnny), Taly is chosen. Some people got heavy town reads of me and DP/Nancy during all this.
- Ceph is chosen over Taly and Ceph flips town

Night 1

- Frogster and Dunn die, both town

Day 2

- Everyone shocked at 2 town dying so we speculate some.
- BB announces he can talk to dead people (2 shots, each shot opens a perma PT with someone) and that he chose Ceph. Couldn't choose between frog/dunn at that point because they were not dead yet.
- Theories going around about Dunn possibly being Friendly Neighbor, whether he visited someone (we were assuming he'd have visited Luke given he was hinting at his role directly to Luke and saying it was confirmable) but nothing has come of any of that
- T-Bone notices that C&G went over their word limit. He counts 101 words d1. I count 103 words. C&G claim that they never asked what the penalty would be if they went over. After all this comes up, they supposedly message the mod and the mod said they were close enough so they won't be modkilled for breaking the limit.
- Wagons just aren't sticking and people are showing apathy, discouraged that town can't come together for a wagon. Math drops out and we're all just bored debating how long we wait on a replacement. I put together a parody post about the top 4 wagons and IMO it got people motivated to make a wagon happen. The Math wagon picks up and leads to a flip.
- Math flips scum

Night 2

- Bell NK'd

Day 3

- Professor Drap claims tracker and that he saw Bella visit Bell
- Bella wagon, Bella claims doc and has a flavor that matches. Lots of discussion. 4 of us believe it could be fine to not flip Bella here, tether her to Drap that night, and see if it resolves itself (me, DP, BBT, and RCE though he's the most reluctant)
- Bella flips red

Night 3

- No NK!

Day 4

- RCE claims 2 shot BP but it's not confirmable that he actually got hit. Either RCE BP got hit or doc saved someone. Some speculation about why RCE would have been the target happened.
- Pooky claims 2 shot cop and clears Luke and T-Bone
- I can't remember when Mala and OTH claim similar roles but maybe it was d4.
- Enchant wagon picks up. Enchant claims innocent child and says he's messaged to mod. Some of us jump off. Mod comes in and posts a VC and nothing else. Enchant says he's kidding and that he's just vt. People pile on and wagon succeeds.
- Enchant flips town

Night 4

- Luke NK'd

Day 5

- Rad wagon gets run up
- Malcolm counter wagon gets run up
- I write up this great summary that I'm sure I missed a ton of important stuff but hey, people are allowed to jump in and point out more important shit I missed so please feel free, other people <3

Side notes

- There's a bunch of neighborhoods... roden and butterchurn are masons, luke and malcolm, taly and bell, math and c&g, johnny and tbone, are there more I'm forgetting?
- My brain is now mush.

[Rad]

C&G needs to vote more
All days ended with them not voting anyone

This.

Mala is spewed town anyway Mislim

Why? Just because corwin complained about mala also lurking and not catching heat? Was there anything else?