Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Klick]

petapan
Ausuka

Malakittens

Nero Cain
PenguinPower
Lukewarm
furtiveglance
Roden
Titus
Uncrowned
Vivax

Andresvmb

mastina
jjh927
Ircher
RCEnigma
BlueBloodedToffee

Klick

Something_Smart
Ydrasse

fireisredsir

[Klick]

Subject: Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

Yo, very important to note:

I am a Beloved Princess

.

No, seriously; no joke; this is a realclaim. (I can fullclaim the wording use, but I've reason not to.)

Obviously, this needs to be said since eliminating me during the day is a Very Bad Idea. (I'll need to ask a question to the mod about Vigs tho.)

I may or may not be feeling like playing tonight but it'll either be shortly or not until tomorrow-at-earliest.

VOTE: mastina

[Klick]

I respect it, but I don't townread it. Nero's not being as obtuse/obstinate as his town self normally is.

This is the easiest way to read Nero Cain and I'm disappointed that you've discussed it in clear detail in this game before Nero Cain has really posted enough to read him off it

[Klick]

UNVOTE:
This is probably town mastina though

[Klick]

VOTE: RCE

I am sitting in the morning
At the diner on the corner

This feels like a sensible vote

[Klick]

im already bored, that wore off fast

i think furtive is town

I agree

[Klick]

i also wanted to bring it up originally bc idk maybe people like ydra or klick or others would have opinions on the post i mentioned

Fwiw I don't really read much at all AI into 73
But I do buy into your thoughts about it
I have a light townread on petapan for other posts of his

[Klick]

i could totally play this way as scum

i mean, i wouldn't, but i could

Vibes

[Klick]

VOTE: RCE

I am sitting in the morning
At the diner on the corner

This feels like a sensible vote

I didn't like it, based on RC's posting at the time.

RCE felt like pretty decent potential scum at that point to me, but I think RCE is really easy to read most of the time anyway so I'll give him time

[Klick]

Nero just to be very explicit

The way you're playing is making it very difficult to get a read on you

Not necessarily saying you need to stop! but understand that that's happening

[Klick]

petapan
Ausuka

Malakittens

Nero Cain
PenguinPower
Lukewarm

furtiveglance

Roden
Titus
Uncrowned
Vivax

Andresvmb

mastina

jjh927
Ircher
RCEnigma
BlueBloodedToffee

Klick

Something_Smart
Ydrasse

fireisredsir

[Klick]

VOTE: Ircher

My personal opinion is that Something_Smart is pretty scummy in his own right and I don't have a strong opinion on the Ircher-informed thing, but if we're partnering these two together then sure let's go

[Klick]

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

The argument is that due to the math involved this post assumes that we're in a 17-4 setup, and that that's not an intuitive thing to assume.

[Klick]

Tangentially, I'd be -very- surprised if the setup were 16:5

[Klick]

Okay maybe not -very- surprised, but like, it doesn't feel right

[Klick]

You know what does feel right though?

This pagetop

[Klick]

Tangentially, I'd be -very- surprised if the setup were 16:5

What do you think it is?

17:4 makes sense to me with a known powerful anti-town mechanic
But I'm not amazing at design or anything

[Klick]

I think you can probably assess this setup's balance as though there is little town power at all
16:5 mountainous or close to it would be ridiculously scumsided
17:4 mountainous would... probably still be rather scumsided but that's why there's some power right?

[Klick]

What we know:
- town is limited in how much of its power it can use
- this limitation grants scum extra kills

At our most controlled, we have the ability to limit the negative effects of the setup on us by just, uh, not using the power roles

Any power roles we do use also come with an unknown magnitude of negative effect on the town.

Ergo, we can evaluate the setup as though we aren't using the power roles as a ballpark reference for the overall power level of the setup.

Any power roles we risk using are a bonus that is particularly tricky and pointless to evaluate at this stage.

[Klick]

The extra mechanic is not pro-scum. It limits the usability of town PR's, but in a way that's entirely in town's control.

So it's in town's control how negative utility the extra mechanic is
That doesn't mean it's not negative utility

Also, since when has giving random townies control ever been a good idea

[Klick]

PenguinPower
furtiveglance
Malakittens
Vivax
Andresvmb
fireisredsir

petapan
Uncrowned
mastina
Roden

Lukewarm
Titus
Ydrasse
Ausuka
Nero Cain
BlueBloodedToffee
jjh927

RCEnigma
Ircher
Something_Smart

[Klick]

That's the null section and there's very little difference between most of them
Others have moved up

[Klick]

Peta I initially had the same feelings as you about Titus but decided I wasn't confident that her 221 was AI
I decided that I could easily be reading lawyer-posting constructing an argument on unconvincing logic as a scumtell
I'm interested in hearing more about why you scumread the post and how confident you feel in the read

[Klick]

that's a lot of nulls is my first reaction

I'm surprised you think so? I suspected people might think I was making conclusions on too many slots too quickly

[Klick]

I don't really know why Nero is so fixated on everyone scumreading him because I think exactly no one has expressed a scumread on him

[Klick]

We should either hammer Ircher or move on imo
I'm interested in pursuing an RCEnigma vote but I don't want to dampen the Ircher wagon for something that might not happen

[Klick]

We should either hammer Ircher or move on imo

no?

yes?

[Klick]

i don't really get the mindset behind "hammer or move on" followed by "i want to vote RCE but don't want to dampen ircher wagon"

can you explain that more

specifically about the "or move on"

Ircher looks like he might get eliminated here
I am satisfied with that outcome

It also looks possible that the wagon will dissolve and other wagons will form
I'm not as happy with that outcome because I think Ircher is a better elimination than we would likely get if things were to dissolve. But it is an acceptable outcome and one we can work to our advantage

What I DON'T want is 'let's leave Ircher at L-2 for a few days while we don't do other things and

then

get cold feet and vote elsewhere' (which does commonly happen)
Because the stagnation would kill momentum in what's currently an active and fun and highly-Klick-motivating game

[Klick]

jjh I want to hear you talk about Mala

PEdit: I don't trust that people would actually go back to Ircher
The wagon is there now

[Klick]

I also have very close to zero confidence in my ability to persuade people towards things that align with my reads and therefore and resistant to shifts away from gamestates that work with my reads

[Klick]

I also have very close to zero confidence in my ability to persuade people towards things that align with my reads and therefore

am

resistant to shifts away from gamestates that work with my reads

EBWOP

[Klick]

If people are ultimately more convinced by something else later than the thing we're thinking now that's fine.

Don't get held back by the idea that we could be correct right now. We also might not be. Getting the most info possible and being as confident as possible that we can lim scum day 1 is the goal.

I disagree with the notion that more info = higher town accuracy
I'm feeling decently confident in my accuracy on this game right now and there's not that much info so far

[Klick]

PenguinPower
furtiveglance
Malakittens
fireisredsir
Vivax
Andresvmb

petapan
Uncrowned
mastina
Nero Cain
Ausuka
jjh927

Roden
Ydrasse
Lukewarm
Titus
BlueBloodedToffee

Ircher
Something_Smart
RCEnigma

[Klick]

what are the struck out names?

Rather confident townreads

[Klick]

Ircher is overreacting with little substance because he is scum hoping this will go away and trying not to give too much away when he does die

[Klick]

If mastina is scum, it is true that she's not going to contribute at all to productivity early on (or ever)
I wouldn't write her off with that reasoning

[Klick]

Subject: Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

Yo, very important to note:

I am a Beloved Princess

.

No, seriously; no joke; this is a realclaim. (I can fullclaim the wording use, but I've reason not to.)

Obviously, this needs to be said since eliminating me during the day is a Very Bad Idea. (I'll need to ask a question to the mod about Vigs tho.)

I may or may not be feeling like playing tonight but it'll either be shortly or not until tomorrow-at-earliest.

VOTE: mastina

There's a reason this pinged me originally and it's because mastina absolutely is willing to claim things early if she feels they're close to the truth of her situation as scum

[Klick]

Jackpot

[Klick]

Ircher is now in 'give as little away as possible' stance

[Klick]

I'm legitimately not sure if this is a very well informed scum or a super good town, because I think the bottom of the reads is very sheepable. Though an update on Andres after the latest input would be appreciated.

Andre's continues to be obvtown
You're also continuing to be obvtown and I don't get the scumreads on you

[Klick]

If you vote Ircher now maybe we could end it by 35

[Klick]

VOTE: RCE

I am sitting in the morning
At the diner on the corner

This feels like a sensible vote

I didn't like it, based on RC's posting at the time.

RCE felt like pretty decent potential scum at that point to me, but I think RCE is really easy to read most of the time anyway so I'll give him time

@Fire my scumread on Klick started here.

I don’t have many games with Klick at all so this stuck out as weird.

I’m not a ramp up kind of player I’m a what you see is what you get kind of player. I have a fair amount of games played with slots not named Klick but Mastina is probably the only slot that would say they can reliably read me (even though they scumread me as town very very often).

So the angle seemed fake, I let it slide and I’ve become their top scumread. Surprise surprise.

I've either played with you or watched games you've been in a number of times (I often read games that Bellaphant, my wife, is playing in). It hasn't been often, but each time I've seen you I've found you very easy to read, You've also stuck out for me several times because as town I've found you to be one of the more accurate and pro-town players I've seen. I often read your posts in games and go 'people should be listening to RCEnigma'.

You don't feel similar to how I've seen you as town before.

[Klick]

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Klick]

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

What I do care about is Ircher freezing. Ircher's last log in was today this morning after he was first asked about the question regarding his assumptions. While it may not be a slip, the freezing doesn't look good.

Idk if Titus is gonna rat out her scumbuddy like this

This is like the one post that has made me consider Titus!scum lol

[Klick]

Titus could have been bussing but you would have to think they were on top of Ircher’s case very aggressively and maybe? It’s possible the Scum decided to take alternative tracks in order to not all get lumped together, but I seriously doubt all of the Scum bailed on Ircher immediately.

Ircher's role was pretty weak, and tbh Ircher gets run up D1 almost every game I play with him regardless of his alignment. I don't think he got hard bussed by his entire team, but I don't think they had much incentive to try to save him either. Best play for scum is for them to avoid being associated with Ircher at all IMO.

Scum don’t play like this when there isn’t a red check in play.

What do you mean by 'red check' in this post?

[Klick]

Mastina Luke is just town

[Klick]

furtiveglance
Vivax
fireisredsir
Lukewarm
Malakittens
PenguinPower
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned

Ydrasse
jjh927
Titus
mastina
Roden

RCEnigma
Something_Smart

Merged the two middle sections, I think this better represents my current thoughts

VOTE: Something_Smart
I think he's been consistently scummy and isn't quite sure what to do in the current gamestate other than possibly eatch town implode

[Klick]

VOTE: Roden

[Klick]

To be clear, mastina:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

This is the primary reason I think Luke can't be scum.
I'd love to see a convincing perspective on why Luke actively decides to make this post as scum. Because otherwise, I agree that he's a pretty simple choice for PoE.

[Klick]

Roden if someone isn't sure whether or not you're scum (*holds a very big neon sign pointing at myself*) then claiming your productivity costs could potentially sway them one way or the other
Right now your refusal/reaction to pressure is making me think that you look scummy
I could very well be wrong about this, but I think you actually giving a satisfying answer to the question you've now been asked by multiple people who have different perspectives on your alignment would definitely help at least me accurately determine your alignment

[Klick]

Reading jjh's dialogue with you he also seemed to not scumread you prior to your reaction to being asked to share your productivity points, which makes 1544 feel like it's misdirected at best

[Klick]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

Town points to Gryffindor

KLICK! CROSS OFF AUSUKA!

If we are using self meta logic though Ircher and I were friends back in the day and rolling scum with him would've been awesome so I never would have bussed him this game

You guys should clear me too

I'm sold

[Klick]

Roden [5]:

mastina

, Andresvmb, Klick, Malakittens, Ydrasse

All of these people (and also Titus who voted since the vote count), really need to check in post his full claim and all of the interactions surrounding it, and declare that they still want to be voting him, or find a new place to be.

I feel like there has been a lot of Roden things that happened since these votes were cast, but very little of the people voting there really reacting to them.

I dont think Roden's claim and posts around it do anything to help him really

[Klick]

I think the scumteam is trying to feel out if they can get mastina eliminated today because they feel trapped by her influence and accurate perception of the game

[Klick]

Who's voting Mastina?

Who said anyone was currently voting mastina?

[Klick]

Titus isn't scum

[Klick]

I'm not really sold on Luke atm and definitely not seeing fire-scum

Roden is doing exactly what scum would be doing now though

[Klick]

Dannflor scummy af
Roden scummy af
The third is the deepwolf but not like DEEP deep

I've read the last few pages in chunks, I feel like someone asked me a question but I can't remember who or what and I can't find it

[Klick]

Like Klick just seems to be in lockstep with you without any real unique pushes or thoughts of his own.

You haven't put thought into this take
My reads came before mastina's

[Klick]

Like I'm not as vocal about my thoughts but they're original thoughts
I've been calling your slot scum all game

[Klick]

Like Klick just seems to be in lockstep with you without any real unique pushes or thoughts of his own.

I think if Dannflor had any genuine interest in sorting me and thought this, the town next step would be asking any questions about any of my reads
Instead, he's starting with a conclusion and saying this with intent to sound persuasive instead of to solve
Because he doesn't need to actually solve for me
Because he's scum

[Klick]

furtiveglance
Vivax
PenguinPower
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned
Titus

Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart

Roden
Dannflor

[Klick]

Wouldn't be surprised if Klick's were the best reads in the game tbf
Probably one of the players where I'd close my eyes and chainsheep

I appreciate this
I wish I had any amount of confidence to actually assertively push what I believe haha

[Klick]

Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart

It's probably worth mentioning that I think Luke/Ydrasse/mastina are all rather unlikely scum
I can see niche cases where they're scum and there's a decent chance one of these reads is inaccurate
But they're all fairly towny

[Klick]

Why is Mala in the townlock? Answer without using the word vibes

Mala occasionally pops in with posts that I entirely believe are genuine scumhunting; from any player they might not look that special but I think Mala!scum wouldn't have reads that look as real as Mala's reads do. In contrast, I think a lot of her posts have explicitly not been made with the goal of getting the game at large to townread her (which is what her goal would be if she were scum).

181 - I believe the intent of this post is actually just to express an Andre townread, and not to just look like she's scumhunting

She doesn't give two shits about the early suspicion on Ircher because Ircher isn't her buddy and she doesn't care what Ircher's alignment is for a while

UNVOTE:

Luke, mastina, (???)

I don‘t know, maybe Ydrasse for third
But I‘m never limming Roden today I think after re-ISOing.
This extremely obstinate defense almost always comes from town in my experience. Especially when it‘s so genuinely egocentrist at times (not negatively connotated as it‘s a townie process)

Id townbin andres

This is def his row. Meta

What is she even trying to accomplish with this content if she's scum, she already said this. She just wants her most confident read in town-Andres to be heard because she's town

I believed her 331 about me as well, I could see her having that take. Not as strong as the other ones, but it did contribute to solidifying the read.

All in all, Mala just wants to solve and that seems obvious to me from reading her posts.



Also, vibes

[Klick]

Luke can you tell me why Roden's town or otherwise point me to where you already said why Roden's town

[Klick]

mastina

I'm interested in hearing if you have any thoughts about 2092

[Klick]

UNVOTE:
Don't want a hammer while I reevaluate Roden for a little bit

[Klick]

Like Klick just seems to be in lockstep with you without any real unique pushes or thoughts of his own.

I think if Dannflor had any genuine interest in sorting me and thought this, the town next step would be asking any questions about any of my reads
Instead, he's starting with a conclusion and saying this with intent to sound persuasive instead of to solve
Because he doesn't need to actually solve for me
Because he's scum

i skim roden's iso and it's like

mailman who can get messages back for free right ?

that claim is probably real ya but i don't get how alignment follows that one

Ydrasse is town yay

[Klick]

First quote shouldn't be there

[Klick]

Dannflor and Roden
I was also considering you as potentially angling for that at the time of 1867 but I'm not sure if you're scum
I don't have time to give examples of where I thought I saw this behaviour right now but those are the names I was thinking of when I said that

[Klick]

[Klick]

I am a masonizer. I am keeping my partner hidden

No you're not

VOTE: Titus

[Klick]

Wait is she claiming to have targeted mastina or not
The fact that this isn't extremely clear is Not Good

[Klick]

Well this looks like a ridiculous mess to walk into

Titus, fullclaim all the aspects of your role in one post rather than splitting it up

THIS

[Klick]

like titus genuinely if all of the stuff ur saying rn is somehow true sorry but lol

This

[Klick]

titus is saying that she has a neighborhood but also it goes last because nar but she also doesn’t have it yet but but but

ya this is a fake claim imo

Yeah just claim it all outright at the start

Unless you want to make up stuff to match your claim to info that comes out at a later point

[Klick]

mastina and titus are literally both scum lmao

[Klick]

Yeah I think it’s somewhat likely mastina could be town and also lying here

Dann/Titus/mastina lol

[Klick]

Yeah I think it’s somewhat likely mastina could be town and also lying here

Dann/Titus/mastina lol

Please outline the scenario where mastina is scum, and fire it town, and got these results in a game with no multitasking

im a reddit moderator, i can check if someone carried out a night action. i used it on mastina both nights and both nights she did not carry out an action.

????

The scenario is just mastina being a Mafia Goon

[Klick]

Why would the scum roleblock me?

Picture this: Mafia Rolecop targeted you N1, so they blocked you N2.

Thoughts?

[Klick]

Dann doesn't feel like scum right now
I'm rather confused

[Klick]

I am a masonizer. I am keeping my partner hidden

No you're not

VOTE: Titus

@klick, why did you say this?

You seem to be making a statement that is disconnected from what Ydra was saying

Correct; I saw 'I am keeping my partner hidden' and the alarm bells in my head went off telling me that was bullshit
Titus wasn't claiming from a position of it being acceptable to withhold information. If she were telling the truth, it needed to be all of it, right away, to avoid exactly what happened: Titus' claim adapting with new information.
I hadn't read Ydrasse's claim at all when I made 2381, it was a reaction to me catching up on the thread in chronological order.

I have two things to say in response to 2679
1. I say more about Titus than you suggest through my reads on the game at large. Titus was in my PoE D2 and left PoE through her actions on D2 (specifically, I thought her drunk solving looked like she was genuinely trying to solve).
2. If I were scum with Titus, I don't think I'd sign off on a plan for the two of us to claim Masons in any capacity. I think I'd be happy with my current position in the game from a 'I could viably endgame' perspective, and I wouldn't want to tie myself to Titus, who is in a considerably worse position than that. Plus thinking long-term, I don't think the concept of 'Titus/Klick!scumbuddies fakeclaiming Masons and being at endgame and surviving together' is something I'd ever believe would work.

[Klick]

Why would the scum roleblock me?

Picture this: Mafia Rolecop targeted you N1, so they blocked you N2.

Thoughts?

I think this is just accurate

I want to do some thinking about fire's claim though

[Klick]

I would like to claim now that my role is confirmable but thus far I have used it to target Ausuka on N2 and Lukewarm N3 and this is incredibly frustrating to me

[Klick]

This was me reacting to Ausuka dying

[Klick]

furtiveglance
PenguinPower
Ydrasse
mastina
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Andresvmb
Uncrowned

jjh927
Dannflor
Something_Smart

[Klick]

I really don't see why jjh is town mastina I kind of assumed that read was because you saw town utility in jjh still being alive because you think he's strong

[Klick]

Malalittens

Someone edit the cat in Mala's avatar to be wearing shades pls

[Klick]

I need to heavily reconsider fireisredsir as potential scum, I think.

I think I can see how he developed into a townread for me naturally in a way that made me not want to reconsider. But I've started on his ISO and not only does it not read as towny in the way I originally hard townread him early, but he explicitly says in 391 that he thinks the same way I do in terms of what is AI/what he'd normally do as scum. My most used sorting tool is 'what does this person want to achieve with their posts, is their primary goal getting townread or some other goal more closely aligning with a town win condition'. And fire reveals there that he plays at a level where he'd be aware and able to mask his intentions adequately enough to produce a natural townread from me as scum.

I'll keep reading when I get a moment tomorrow (need to sleep now), but that's where I'm expecting to vote. Dannflor doesn't feel like a correct scumread. Ydrasse has S_S in the correct category. I think jjh actually has a pretty decent chance of being scum, but not with like actual confidence, and I'd like to hear more details about mastina's townread there and see if it's translatable at all to reasoning I'd agree with.

But so far with a game's worth of context on fire's play, I'm not seeing town at all on an altogether read-through of the slot like I did when just reading the game as it happened.

[Klick]

klick

Hi
Ngl I've really not got the energy at the moment, I'm off work sick for the last couple of days
I'm not going to force myself to engage heavily when I'm not in a place to enjoy it at least a little bit
I'm aware there's other outstanding stuff for me from earlier and I'll try to get to everything

You made a point in this post about it not seeming like my reads have developed much lately. The current problem is that I feel fairly confident in the reasons I've got the players as town that I do, BUT my list of remaining available scum doesn't... feel right. I don't have a concrete reason for it in my head but Dannflor doesn't feel like scum to me. Exactly jjh/S_S doesn't seem right, they're also two players that I don't think I'd get a solid townread on easily if they were town (I do think one scum there is probably a good shout though?). So I'm in a place where one of my townreads is probably wrong and I need to identify which, but I don't like any of the choices because they all feel town to me. So it needs to be someone who is rather committed to playing in a way that reads as genuine to me, OR one of the reads themselves is a poor read.

I'll give the furtive deepwolf theory some consideration but it doesn't feel realistic on first impression

[Klick]

like you had me as a townread and then dropped it bc once you saw me say that i liked to gain townreads as scum, you thought that i could have easily gotten you to townread me. and like... okay, sure, but that's like a basic thing that most people can do as scum? so im not sure why that would change anything for you. it feels like your original townread couldn't have actually been very strong if that was enough to shake it

Quoting this but I'll respond to your earlier post which said essentially the same thing

[Klick]

i don't really get this, it seems like... super shallow reasoning? what about my play this game looks like it was meant to generate townreads?

like, your core point here is that me suspecting someone for looking like they're playing to get townread (and comparing it to how i play scum) made you think i was capable of doing that

do you... just have a baseline assumption that people in general aren't?

So, in short: yes
Or at least, not authentically
Very few people actually play scum with the intent of fully committing to the act, masking a town game to the point where they do individual things that wouldn't *actually* get them townread in practice just because it makes for a more authentic town-looking game as a whole. Because most townies don't scumhunt like that, so most scum players don't see the benefit of masking to that level in practice. It's not about whether players are *capable* of that level of masking - most scum players don't *choose* to.
I think petapan is a counterexample that was in this game, and that's why he was leaning town for me instead of straight town. Lukewarm is similar, Lukewarm plays a scum game that looks a lot like a town game. But someone like Malakittens, for example, isn't going into a scum game saying things that aren't an attempt to get townread by a decent chunk of the town - from what I've seen, that's not how she chooses to play as scum.

[Klick]

Hello hi I'm here sorry please don't replace me

Just starting to get better today after being sick
Also admittedly feeling apathy about this game specifically; I think I'm on the wrong track currently and I don't like being wrong, it makes me feel lost

[Klick]

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

I don't buy this progression as a scum progression.

[Klick]

I think Titus is town.

This post exists too right in the middle there

[Klick]

I buy his progression on the Titus slot as well

[Klick]

I’m ok with yeeting Titus.
There will never be a day where I’m never not yeetong Titus

VOTE: titus

i got u lukewarm bby

zzzzzzzzzzoooooooooooooooooooom
byeeeeeeeeeee titus
you scumrat

<3

So what exactly is Mala!scum *doing* if anyone could explain that that'd be great

[Klick]

i mean now we play the game

what's more likely

mr. ircher just guessed the ratio or he's a very informed doggo

I guess I can see this as gently suggesting the possibility that Ircher's town without pushing it?

[Klick]

And she expects this to get her to endgame because

[Klick]

I don't think scum have to have some master plan where they decide who is going to endgame. I also don't think players who aren't good at scum just immediately give up when they roll scum.

I have not said or implied either of these things

Mala isn't doing things that make any sense to further a scum wincon here

[Klick]

furtiveglance
Vivax
fireisredsir
Lukewarm
Malakittens
PenguinPower
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned

Ydrasse
jjh927
Titus
mastina
Roden

RCEnigma
Something_Smart

Merged the two middle sections, I think this better represents my current thoughts

VOTE: Something_Smart
I think he's been consistently scummy and isn't quite sure what to do in the current gamestate other than possibly eatch town implode

Titus isn't scum

furtiveglance
Vivax
PenguinPower
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned
Titus

Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart

Roden
Dannflor

wtf did titus do between these posts to not be wolf

Drunkpost in a way that looked like genuine solving to me

[Klick]

I would like to claim now that my role is confirmable but thus far I have used it to target Ausuka on N2 and Lukewarm N3 and this is incredibly frustrating to me

Klick you have a vote on you now

Might be good to confirm yourself

I don't know why you're so interested in me fullclaiming

[Klick]

Town
His interests feel explicitly not where scum's interests would be at several points in the game

[Klick]

But my time to posy here is up exactly now

[Klick]

I don't follow that, they wanted to talk about their role, so they did. Doesn't mean they wanted to say

everything

.

Ok but Klick could just say "I don't want to full claim today, because..." or something. Saying "Idk why YOU'RE so interested"...that's obviously trying to put bad intentions on me.

You've brought it up three times, you're definitely interested in it and I want to know why
After the second time of me not responding I thought it'd be clear that I don't want to fullclaim my role right now
I don't want to fullclaim my role right now because I think my role loses a fair amount of its utility if I claim it in this gamestate

[Klick]

what felt genuine to you

So my honest answer is that I couldn't remember so I've just gone through Andre's ISO to jog my memory/develop the read some more because it's stale. I know that's not satisfying but it is what it is.

At the current moment, I'm seeing surprisingly little that I feel like couldn't be scum

There are a couple of moments where I'm like 'would that really be the scum route'

But a lot less than I remember seeing before

And that bothers me

[Klick]

Titus is trolling - that’s an obvious lie. Night actions that resolved during the day wouldn’t resolve at a random moment in time during the next day. Point to me one time you’ve ever seen that. It’s so obviously false it’s painful.

I'll say that right now this doesn't read to me like a partner interaction
It's very close to the reasoning I had for Titus being flat scum after the claim
And it doesn't feel like the coordinated front I'd expect from scum

But I CAN imagine a world where Titus has this plan for a claim and Andres just... doesn't go with it and abandons ship

[Klick]

I think when you get overwhelmingly null vibes reading through a lot then that slot is more likely than not scum

I heavily agree with this in concept
I struggle with when to apply it
Maybe the time is now!

[Klick]

That is basically how I caught Dunnstral last time I played with him

[Klick]

VOTE: Andresvmb

Probably the best place for me to be rn
I'll also consider Uncrowned
I don't want to vote fire right now it doesn't feel right but I acknowledge the possibility that that's wrong

[Klick]

I've read and agree with 3191 and also think it makes jjh rather likely town

[Klick]

Saying you can confirm yourself...it protects you from being voted. If we can get a confirm it would be really useful. If I could confirm myself I'd do it right now. I don't see any possible reason for half-claiming. 1) I have a cool role and don't want to die. Why even claim in the first place? 2) I can't think of any other reasons actually. You're being suspected and voted. If you can confirm yourself, just do it. I'm fed up of this

I am not going to claim my role today. I do not need to justify this to you. I am fed up with you repeatedly pushing this with incomplete information.

[Klick]

Yes I am in a bad mood, how did you know

[Klick]

Something_Smart should know what my role is

Now, Something_Smart, what would you do in my situation? Was targeting you sensible? Should I target anyone else?

[Klick]

I wanted to target mastina, but I misunderstood that I was meant to say how productive I was by the end of D1, not during N1. So I told Datisi that I wanted to target mastina, and was told I didn't have the productivity points for it.

[Klick]

Why didn't you say that way back at 2762?

It wasn't relevant. It's not that different from me just deciding not to act on N1

[Klick]

Also, wait, I'm dumb. Assuming there's only one scum left, it's a roleblocker, and Klick is town.

I agree with this logic but was hoping you'd present it!

[Klick]

Yoink

[Klick]

Scum probably within [fire, furtive]

Outside chance of [jjh]

I can see Uncrowned and I think it's rather unlikely to be jjh

[Klick]

I guess it could be uncrowned

Furtive why do you suspect him so hard again

Haha yeah that

[Klick]

Massclaim should be a huge thing rn because scum can't multitask, the last scum is known to be a roleblocker, and there are lots of power roles floating about

Sure. It also gives a glaring roadmap of which PRs to block. Awesome suggestion tbh.

This is really not a good response

[Klick]

Like did you just conveniently ignore the 'scum can't multitask' bit or am I missing a reason that's not relevant

[Klick]

I mean, if fire announces a target and we tell that target not to act, wouldn't that be a cop check?

Assuming a town slot and scum no kills….what then?

Then we have a no killing scum yay?
Like this is a big positive

[Klick]

Why is playing around Multitasking Roleblocker more important than coordinating our night actions/getting clears

[Klick]

Not necessarily? They can only interfere with two people at once and they're probably not ungated.

Maybe. Flipped scum power is pretty weak so far.

Along with the multikill mechanic it feels about right to me with a standard or even gated RB

It also depends on what roles we have left in the town

[Klick]

So what exactly makes you think we have a Multitasking Roleblocker PP

[Klick]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Klick]

Dannflor
jjh927

furtiveglance
Something_Smart
Andresvmb

fireisredsir
Uncrowned
PenguinPower

[Klick]

You all are acting like idiots.

Fine. Massclaim.

I’m a forum mafia player (tracker) base 15% cost + 10% for each subsequent shot. I’ve been banking productivity and used my first short last night in Andre (didn’t go anywhere) since if we’re in 17:4, it’s basically a cop shot. This is why I’ve been skeptical of fire’s productivity claim since the original claim as I can get three full tracks out for less than three of his shots.

Piss off.

This is very good news, thank you for claiming!

UNVOTE:

[Klick]

Andresvmb
Dannflor
jjh927
PenguinPower

furtiveglance
Something_Smart

fireisredsir
Uncrowned

[Klick]

Yes claim now pls

[Klick]

Also sounds plausible to me fwiw

[Klick]

Since we're talking about the game being mechanically over, I think it's correct to claim part of my role here

If S_S is scum, me targeting him would have given him an extra kill tonight. If he's town, he is not aware of this.

Mechanically I believe it is correct to lim S_S today, although I do not think S_S is scum here.

VOTE: Something_Smart

[Klick]

Uncrowned
Andresvmb
PenguinPower

Dannflor
jjh927

Something_Smart
fireisredsir

furtiveglance

[Klick]

Furtive is making sense from PoE

[Klick]

Oh yeah that'd work as well, we can just explicitly state percentages

I will be at 100% productivity tonight

[Klick]

Er, today, I suppose

[Klick]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Klick]

Lol the immersion

[Klick]

D2 I went 65% productivity
D4 I went 75% productivity

It is definitely exactly the night after I target someone that they'd get an extra kill if they're scum

[Klick]

(D1 and D3 I went 100% productivity)

[Klick]

Maybe we’re in 16:5 with a traitor that can affect town productivity….idk.

This makes a lot of sense to me as an answer actually
The flavor would be really good I'd imagine

[Klick]

My actual role is a Motivator, flavour being 'Coffee Addict'

If my target is town, they can use an ability the next night without cost
If my target is NOT TOWN (notable for the current 3p discussion), they can attempt an extra kill the next night, and they are also informed of what would have happened if they had been targeted as town

It is carefully worded to suggest that a 3p could exist and benefit from this now that I'm reading it

[Klick]

I've asked, but I imagine by the time I have an answer the thread will be locked

I could see a situation where a traitor would be able to fire someone if I targeted them

[Klick]

I don't really know what to do to search for a 3p here

I lean furtive like everyone else because of the blatant survivalism, but I'm not confident