Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[MathBlade]

Unwnd has died. Their role was

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Now with 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Shocked by this.

Why didn’t he even try to solve?

[MathBlade]

Oh wow I was right. Scum Vig anyone? Could explain early claim, no death and bad kill?

Kill was necessary I explained why and my TRs agreed

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Scarf

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:

Changed my mind

[MathBlade]

Oh wow I was right. Scum Vig anyone? Could explain early claim, no death and bad kill?

Kill was necessary I explained why and my TRs agreed

Is *Ydrasse* a townread of yours?

Yes

[MathBlade]

Wait if unwnd was VT.... Meuh has explaining to do

No she doesn’t.

VTs have an alignment according to her claim

[MathBlade]

Would it have swayed you at all if i had been more vocally pushing PPF, math? I think you were locked into your own bias from some point earlier in the day. This is disappointing.

Maybe I could have argued that while a unwnd cult flip would have been informative, a town flip gets us absolutely nothing, espescially since he claimed VT. And inb4 he never claimed VT: he did if you were paying attention.

@RR, I think there is no such thing as unattuned, unfortunately.

Honestly it was between the two of them.

I was considering PPF earlier but then with how unwd opened it kinda became a had to shoot there because *reasons*

[MathBlade]

Wtf was that kill

Have you guys read my own posts about my role? Let me bring it up

Fun! unwnd is attuned with the sun. Therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.
I vaguely recall people saying unwnd was weird with the wagon on the person who just flipped lunar? I saw that on the last page. I picked unwd cause of that + Mastina having unwnd low on reads.

Can you clarify what sun attuned means again?

All sun and moon cult members are attuned to their respective cult.

All townies have an attunement (sun or moon) determined pregame in some sort of non-random fashion.

Functionally, a sun attunement means someone is confirmed to not be moon cult, and vice-versa.

I thought you agreed based on our prior conversation, where you and I went back and forth?

[MathBlade]

Whoops. I thought you had hence me firing.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: PPF

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

Suspect play is not the same as suspect. Suspect play means bad play. Suboptimal play.

Regarding my last post, imagine if toogaloo had been checked solar. His reaction would have been like "WTF? I'm not solar *votes mwah*." With unwnd it's just.. nothing.

Almost like I don't give a shit about my attunement as the only that matters is my green role PM

Leading with mechanics is only good if you have a strong foundation

This game is borderline incoherent

I don't expect for people to corroborate and make informed decisions that we can utilize to hold accountability

If that were true, then mastina would've died earlier

Bittersweet

K well i dont know my attunement and shooting me is a legitimate waste

I mean literally shoot my ass if you're soooo convinced

I have nothing to lose

Go on mathblade

Do it

There's nobody townreading me you twit

Only person who has suggested that is DDS

I'm calling your bkuff

Shoot me so you can be the last chapter of that shitshow that started with you and mastina in the first place

I will be a martyr

I get dogged on for trying to change things in a game stick in limbo

I'm sick of you acting like you own the joint

Shoot me and let your stubbornness die with me

I want you to recognize how much you've been an obstructive force to this game

I'm dogged on for not following orders like a dog

I have no shame other than my misconception of mastinas play

What are the reasons for me being scum?

I bet you can't find good ones from any individual

Don't let mathblade continue to play deputy

I'd like others to start suggesting shots not just me, cause shouldn't i have partners? Another thing nobody had to say about

Like i want town to win even without me

If im shot or limmed or whatever the fuck

Then i want to know where people will go next

This is all explicitly VT
Wish I would've actually posted my thoughts at the time but I was reading while doing other stuff
Just blegh

That read to me as scum who had given up

[MathBlade]

I could have sworn mastina said only some Townies, not all Townies. Guess it's irrelevant now, but I was under the impression she could function as a Neapolitan. This means it's basically ONLY useful for disproving associatives unless recruitment does exist... but if recruitment exists it makes more sense as a scum role. But then who shenaniganed with her during Noon?

I think her role exists as a town role. I disagree that is the only use

[MathBlade]

*lurk mode engaged*

I approve Scarf.

Run with it.

I have been dubbed the sheeper of Scarf.

[MathBlade]

It remains that in the world where MMR flips lunar, PPF is still solar. If you disagree with this, you have to clearly explain a world in which it makes sense for lunar scum to sacrifice their rolecop, IN MULTIBALL, to kill a single town power role. Because if the vote went through yesterday on PPF, and PPF flipped IC bulletproof cop, MMR gets their head removed by mathblade and/or the solar kill and/or the dusk 2 vote.

Yes because flip proved they A) lied B) only voted us for survivalist reasons. How many damn times do I need to repost that flip? It says factional and passive, which means they were bssing but since you’re probably scum, I understand that you wouldn’t care a about that.

As pointed out several times they claimed before survivalism kicked in

[MathBlade]

I would seriously think that you would reconsider your reads after you just vigged town but no because your Math, so of course not.

I am reconsidering the premises that lead me to that.

It doesn’t mean throw out everything.

[MathBlade]

Oh wow I was right. Scum Vig anyone? Could explain early claim, no death and bad kill?

R u high or what

As much as I would love Math scum, he'd mod confirmed not Lunar so he'd have to be solar. A solar vig would be pretty stacked imo unless they had no nk and this is largely nightless (moonlogic).

Please I am very suspicious or idiot.

Math is not conf town.

[MathBlade]

I’d rather wait for flip before considering a game over.

[MathBlade]

Would it have swayed you at all if i had been more vocally pushing PPF, math? I think you were locked into your own bias from some point earlier in the day. This is disappointing.

Maybe I could have argued that while a unwnd cult flip would have been informative, a town flip gets us absolutely nothing, espescially since he claimed VT. And inb4 he never claimed VT: he did if you were paying attention.

@RR, I think there is no such thing as unattuned, unfortunately.

Whatever. Can't carry people who can't carry themselves.

Would the lunars (who likely know PPF is solar) even want to kill PPF tonight? I don't know what scum's optimal kill strategy is in multiball. Is it a prisoner's dilemma where lunars want us to vote out PPF and we want them to kill PPF?

It remains that in the world where MMR flips lunar, PPF is still solar. If you disagree with this, you have to clearly explain a world in which it makes sense for lunar scum to sacrifice their rolecop, IN MULTIBALL, to kill a single town power role. Because if the vote went through yesterday on PPF, and PPF flipped IC bulletproof cop, MMR gets their head removed by mathblade and/or the solar kill and/or the dusk 2 vote.

To be clear, this question was addressed to everyone except PPF, since everyone else is (at least pretending) to argue in good faith, since there aren't any other outed mafia.

[MathBlade]

It’s what I am gonna do

[MathBlade]

Btw you hard defended Luke scum in the last normal btw.

If you had listened, we win.

~Titus

… you tried to avoid elimming BGC.

Yes you were right but you were antitown.

You didn’t try to work with me when I asked why so nothing to go off of

You’re not working with CSF when they ask you who else

You’re not working with the group.

I was wrong and thought I had agreement but I am explaining myself where I can and (redacted) where I can’t,

You were also half wrong on cape who I had a soft inno on

Unless you’re willing to meet people half way there isn’t much that can change

You’re being incredibly toxic when I am trying here

Like Enchant doesn’t provide who else either

So on the one hand there is a well reasoned out argument that makes sense
And on the other
You keep saying reread a post and ignoring the context myself and Meuh and others have explained

So like I go with sheeping Scarf every time,

[MathBlade]

Someone who is not town

Define that “someone who is not town” please

And where do you get PPF is bulletproof IC?

[MathBlade]

from posts you quoted

Please explain.

[MathBlade]

… you tried to avoid elimming BGC.

Yes you were right but you were antitown.

You didn’t try to work with me when I asked why so nothing to go off of

You’re not working with CSF when they ask you who else

You’re not working with the group.

I was wrong and thought I had agreement but I am explaining myself where I can and (redacted) where I can’t,

You were also half wrong on cape who I had a soft inno on

Unless you’re willing to meet people half way there isn’t much that can change

You’re being incredibly toxic when I am trying here

Like Enchant doesn’t provide who else either

So on the one hand there is a well reasoned out argument that makes sense
And on the other
You keep saying reread a post and ignoring the context myself and Meuh and others have explained

So like I go with sheeping Scarf every time,

This is bloody nonsense.
You have held up this game for days with your vig claim making it nigh on impossible to discuss anyone else's reads. You refused to discuss my Luke read in the normal.
You refused to do VCA, as town, because your mechanical reads had to prevail in the normal.

We've fought to get Scarf wagoned (although mostly Nancy yesterday as I had no care to fight through a fake guilty).

You will literally throw out your own procedures to get your way and ignore me, and yet I'm toxic for wanting a discussion?

Fucking bullshit. At least this time I don't have a night action so you can't order me around under the basis of "working together".

Scarf is 10000% scum here.

~Titus

1) I didn’t “hold it up” I was forced to claim due to Mastina. Since then I have done what is protown for a vig
2) Did try discussing your Luke read you never explained
3) I did do a VCA.
4) Yes you have fought to get scarf wagoned…okay yes you have passion. Scum have that too.
5) I tried talking with you several times. Simple questions with you result in a blow up or cryptic things rather than a straight answer. You’re literally answering why with music videos where we have to guess context. It’s a non answer.
6) I have been asking for a civil conversation and get this. It’s incredibly toxic and screams of vote Scarf now or else.

Talk with me like I am a reasonable adult please and answer the questions been proposed to you:

Who else is scum with Scarf to you?

Why Scarf besides the fact Scarf scumreads you?

[MathBlade]

@ppf: who else do you have in your scumreads besides scarf? Scarf seems town to me

Example of other people asking.

Please stop just yelling at me and work with people here please.

[MathBlade]

Happy scum day RR.

<< This dude is so sus. He got knighted in among us sus.

*lurks like the scummy player he clearly is* /sarcasm or is it?

[MathBlade]

Then why didn’t MMR ever push us then? Roden only voted us to save their scum asses. If they had actually checked us and gotten a guilty, then why did they wait until they were at risk of getting limmed?

If they weren’t bssing and had a gulity on us - impossible both due to role flip and our alignment - then why did they hesitate as long as they did to vote us?

Because they were fucking lying. They never checked us but saw how Math was pushing Titus and thought they’d take a chance to see if they could get us run up or not. But when they saw it was between us or them - ONLY THEN did they vote us - despite us not having actually claimed anything, despite Titus claiming not arsetic.

They have Ircher in their hydra who should have known their botched claim was garbage, which is why RH never voted us. Only Roden did to save themselves. How is this not obvious?

The crossed out text is the wrong conclusion. But if you get the correct answers to the questions in the non crossed out text, you solve the whole system. I've been asking for people to find the window where PPF is town. I see it, but I don't think anyone else does. And I want someone else, who isn't PPF, to come up with it.

Window was found yesterday.

The fact they don’t care to try means I don’t care either.

They’re just going to be toxic AF and not give reads and play let’s yeet them.

[MathBlade]

It’s as I said yesterday.

MMR’s play didn’t make sense as any alignment.

It’s why I thought both were scum.

Like instead of being productive Titus/Nancy (mostly Titus) I think decided to just do the shit on Math parade when in the scum PT I was the active thread. Yes she had a valid read on Luke but she didn’t try explaining it at all or just waiting until after outed scum died.

I don’t want a claim, I want her to give reads and contribute and identify scum. The things I know her and Nancy are capable of. Until they do sorting them is a waste because whatever PR they have isn’t worth salt if they aren’t trying.

[MathBlade]

Was the active threat in the normal*

[MathBlade]

The idea that PPF aren't trying is more nonsense than the idea that unwnd wasnt trying to solve

Why? Neither of them address simple questions to them repeatedly. Same with Enchant too.

It should not be pulling teeth to get a single TR or SR from players.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Ydrasse

This is where I want my vote, I think.

VOTE: Ydrasse

Bit of momentum on a given up scum slot

And PPF is not a given up scum slot because?

Ydrasse is giving a read. PPF isn’t.

[MathBlade]

how come all the scummy ppl are like "nah MMR was just impossible to understand lets ignore it"

It remains that in the world where MMR flips lunar, PPF is still solar. If you disagree with this, you have to clearly explain a world in which it makes sense for lunar scum to sacrifice their rolecop, IN MULTIBALL, to kill a single town power role. Because if the vote went through yesterday on PPF, and PPF flipped IC bulletproof cop, MMR gets their head removed by mathblade and/or the solar kill and/or the dusk 2 vote.

I want furitive to answer this. He's the closest thing we have to a PPF supporter.

I don't think MMR's play makes sense regardless of PPF's role. I have seen the scum on scum guilty theory and I acknowledge it as possible. What else do you want me to say on it?

I don't agree that this bizarre play DEFINITELY implicates PPF. Look at MMR's role: 'You are a Lunar Starmaster

While you are alive, whenever your faction successfully performs a factional action on a player, you will passively learn the role of the target. If your faction targets a member of the Solar Cult, you will receive a result of vanilla, regardless of the target's role.'

So, if MMR got a result of Vanilla, PPF could well be Town.

So what are you even on about???????

PPF claimed PR. So if MMR got vanilla then PPR = scum PR
If MMR got PR then PPR = town PR.

Your logic doesn’t follow.

[MathBlade]

i just vt so no complaint

Who's your preferred kill right now? Let's say if you had to pick 1 player for MB to shoot, and if they're Town you get voted out.

Probably unwnd idk i gave this game 3 braincells max

Am i a shot candidate

Honestly no. You said something yesterday that makes me think you’re town but antitown to highlight

Wat did i say

Ydrasse posts either to harass me or subtweet while was harassing me

i’m playing to wincon

MathBlade come on. This is far lower than the bar Ydrasse usually sets.

Yes select three posts without context. Very convincing /s

[MathBlade]

how come all the scummy ppl are like "nah MMR was just impossible to understand lets ignore it"

It remains that in the world where MMR flips lunar, PPF is still solar. If you disagree with this, you have to clearly explain a world in which it makes sense for lunar scum to sacrifice their rolecop, IN MULTIBALL, to kill a single town power role. Because if the vote went through yesterday on PPF, and PPF flipped IC bulletproof cop, MMR gets their head removed by mathblade and/or the solar kill and/or the dusk 2 vote.

I want furitive to answer this. He's the closest thing we have to a PPF supporter.

I don't think MMR's play makes sense regardless of PPF's role. I have seen the scum on scum guilty theory and I acknowledge it as possible. What else do you want me to say on it?

I don't agree that this bizarre play DEFINITELY implicates PPF. Look at MMR's role: 'You are a Lunar Starmaster

While you are alive, whenever your faction successfully performs a factional action on a player, you will passively learn the role of the target. If your faction targets a member of the Solar Cult, you will receive a result of vanilla, regardless of the target's role.'

So, if MMR got a result of Vanilla, PPF could well be Town.

So what are you even on about???????

PPF claimed PR. So if MMR got vanilla then PPR = scum PR
If MMR got PR then PPR = town PR.

Your logic doesn’t follow.

Oh I see. I forgot they claimed PR. Did we get the full claim?

No but they hinted confirmability today so like just waiting for them to do something Townie like a read or something anything like they’re solving.

[MathBlade]

i just vt so no complaint

Who's your preferred kill right now? Let's say if you had to pick 1 player for MB to shoot, and if they're Town you get voted out.

Probably unwnd idk i gave this game 3 braincells max

Am i a shot candidate

Honestly no. You said something yesterday that makes me think you’re town but antitown to highlight

Wat did i say

Ydrasse posts either to harass me or subtweet while was harassing me

i’m playing to wincon

MathBlade come on. This is far lower than the bar Ydrasse usually sets.

Yes select three posts without context. Very convincing /s

The context is literally there. What other context do you need? In what world does Ydrasse look towny to you?

I mean Town!Ydrasse is lazy Ydrasse I worry when she efforts. *hides from the smacks*

[MathBlade]

Wait if unwnd was VT.... Meuh has explaining to do

No she doesn’t.

VTs have an alignment according to her claim

Ummm what?

Yeah lunar or solar.

If you can’t answer who you TR or SR or provide a theory you’re thinking about you’re not solving.

[MathBlade]

Oh wow I was right. Scum Vig anyone? Could explain early claim, no death and bad kill?

R u high or what

As much as I would love Math scum, he'd mod confirmed not Lunar so he'd have to be solar. A solar vig would be pretty stacked imo unless they had no nk and this is largely nightless (moonlogic).

Solar has a burn action but no evidence of a straight up kill atm

It’s very likely the burn = recruit (or unlikely kill)

It’s really anti town for me to explain why I think that but please note that I think it is.

[MathBlade]

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

Solar likely recruits every other day. Unwd’s play matched what I would expect a player to do with that pattern.

It’s not a lot but I am the balancing for it.

Like I can’t explain as it’s way too pro scum.

I doubt every lunar kill is a janitor so it’s a risk I gotta take.

If lunar kills and janitors me and you know I am town you’ll know I had mechanical reasons to think what I did.

If lunar just kills me then you KNOW why I think that.

[MathBlade]

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

Solar likely recruits every other day. Unwd’s play matched what I would expect a player to do with that pattern.

It’s not a lot but I am the balancing for it.

Like I can’t explain as it’s way too pro scum.

I doubt every lunar kill is a janitor so it’s a risk I gotta take.

If lunar kills and janitors me and you know I am town you’ll know I had mechanical reasons to think what I did.

If lunar just kills me then you KNOW why I think that.

Wait, what? I thought MMR was janitor?

Sync with your other head if this is real.

You’ve (your slot) posted the MMR flip several asking me to read this this feels really fake.

But in the interest of not being *that guy* benefit of doubt says I should ask you to talk with your partner

[MathBlade]

CSF, Meuh, Dangle and very unfortunately Math and probably TBone I think are town.

If lunar kills and janitors me and you know I am town you’ll know I had mechanical reasons to think what I did.

And if I've been in a game with you before and know that things that we have to 'just trust you' on tend to be not true a worryingly high proportion of the time?

Don't think I've forgotten who kept saying I was confirmed scum for ambiguous role-related reasons in NQNM2 when we were both town

You're going to have to be a lot more explicit if you want this townie to follow your word.

Good thing I don’t think you’re town so…*shrug*

[MathBlade]

Like with all due respect I've seen this act before and I've come to expect it not to produce results. You can't blame me for not trusting you here even though I think you're town.

The info you have can't be so scum-benefitting that it justifies being this vague *again*.

@MathBlade

It is too bad.

[MathBlade]

Good thing I don’t think you’re town so…*shrug*

Another almost exact quote from NQNM2. Anything to justify making your claims without justifying them. And the worst part is you probably are town.

And I was right on FL. The thing I was most insulted on.

How about instead of bringing up where I was wrong and being negative being positive if you’re town?

Where do we agree what are your reads?

Same issue with PPF too much negativity no positivity.

[MathBlade]

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

I haven’t been pushing you as Solar because you can’t be.

My top theory for your slot is Lunar traitor

And that PPF is Solar ergo not teamed

[MathBlade]

But if PPF was lunar traitor why Lunars accuse them?

…DDS = Lunar traitor please read
PPF = solar

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

K well i dont know my attunement and shooting me is a legitimate waste

Did it? That was pretty much a scramble situation with MMR botching a claim

I thought that botched claim was some wacky town gambit. I also thought mastina wanting MMR (see: i thought she was scum) made me retract my vote

If you look, you'll see me as one of the first votes on MMR lol

I mean literally shoot my ass if you're soooo convinced

I have nothing to lose

Go on mathblade

Do it

Then start holding those motherfuckers more accountable who misread me

I'm calling your bkuff

Shoot me so you can be the last chapter of that shitshow that started with you and mastina in the first place

I will be a martyr

I get dogged on for trying to change things in a game stick in limbo

I'm sick of you acting like you own the joint

Shoot me and let your stubbornness die with me

I want you to recognize how much you've been an obstructive force to this game

I'm dogged on for not following orders like a dog

I have no shame other than my misconception of mastinas play

What are the reasons for me being scum?

I bet you can't find good ones from any individual

Don't let mathblade continue to play deputy

I'd like others to start suggesting shots not just me, cause shouldn't i have partners? Another thing nobody had to say about

You are literally the only person

Good job, roll over

Like i want town to win even without me

If im shot or limmed or whatever the fuck

Then i want to know where people will go next

How did you sr this @Math? Toog made the exact same mistake with Koba in Anything uPick. Why would scum try to go out of their way to antagonize vig?

Common scum trope of Anger AtE to try to get a vote to move

I asked many simple questions for collaboration unwd instead chose anger and not doing anything related and dared me. Pretty simple thing considering the theory I had for Solar

[MathBlade]

But if PPF was lunar traitor why Lunars accuse them?

…DDS = Lunar traitor please read

Where this intel comed from

It’s a theory not intel.

[MathBlade]

Good thing I don’t think you’re town so…*shrug*

Another almost exact quote from NQNM2. Anything to justify making your claims without justifying them. And the worst part is you probably are town.

And I was right on FL. The thing I was most insulted on.

How about instead of bringing up where I was wrong and being negative being positive if you’re town?

Where do we agree what are your reads?

Same issue with PPF too much negativity no positivity.

That’s very interesting since I was extremely positive towards you in White Flag, when I agreed with pretty much everything you said and who won that game again? Oh yeah, scum.

Friendly doesn’t = agreeing it’s contributing and talking

This is a bunch of spam

Collaborating = bringing what cards you can to the table and discussing it.

Sometimes losses happen but it is sure more enjoyable as it’s a game.

I have brought some reads what are yours?

[MathBlade]

Good thing I don’t think you’re town so…*shrug*

Another almost exact quote from NQNM2. Anything to justify making your claims without justifying them. And the worst part is you probably are town.

And I was right on FL. The thing I was most insulted on.

How about instead of bringing up where I was wrong and being negative being positive if you’re town?

Where do we agree what are your reads?

Same issue with PPF too much negativity no positivity.

No, you're not going to do this again either.

You have made claims. You want to be listened to on them, but you have not given sufficient justification for them. There is reason to believe that your information is not reliable/not what you claim it to be (because it has worked out that way when you've made similar claims in the past). You have the most posts in the thread and want to assert what you claim through sheer domination of the conversation. Be accountable.

I've been very clear about my reads and they haven't changed much since last time I posted them. If you have a scumread on me, surely you've looked at me in depth enough to have seen those posts.

Uhm the past few games it’s been valid and was valid in the game you’re citing too.

It’s the reads from that point that were incorrect.

You’re scum so it’s actually helpful if you’re incorrect.

I have made claims yes.

Guess what then? Think I am an idiot.

Let’s move on and talk reads give some.

[MathBlade]

So lemme get this straight. You think we’re Solar scum and Dangle is Lunar scum defending us. Makes perfect sense.

Correct. Yes. No facepalm required.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

K well i dont know my attunement and shooting me is a legitimate waste

Did it? That was pretty much a scramble situation with MMR botching a claim

I thought that botched claim was some wacky town gambit. I also thought mastina wanting MMR (see: i thought she was scum) made me retract my vote

If you look, you'll see me as one of the first votes on MMR lol

I mean literally shoot my ass if you're soooo convinced

I have nothing to lose

Go on mathblade

Do it

Then start holding those motherfuckers more accountable who misread me

I'm calling your bkuff

Shoot me so you can be the last chapter of that shitshow that started with you and mastina in the first place

I will be a martyr

I get dogged on for trying to change things in a game stick in limbo

I'm sick of you acting like you own the joint

Shoot me and let your stubbornness die with me

I want you to recognize how much you've been an obstructive force to this game

I'm dogged on for not following orders like a dog

I have no shame other than my misconception of mastinas play

What are the reasons for me being scum?

I bet you can't find good ones from any individual

Don't let mathblade continue to play deputy

I'd like others to start suggesting shots not just me, cause shouldn't i have partners? Another thing nobody had to say about

You are literally the only person

Good job, roll over

Like i want town to win even without me

If im shot or limmed or whatever the fuck

Then i want to know where people will go next

How did you sr this @Math? Toog made the exact same mistake with Koba in Anything uPick. Why would scum try to go out of their way to antagonize vig?

Common scum trope of Anger AtE to try to get a vote to move

I asked many simple questions for collaboration unwd instead chose anger and not doing anything related and dared me. Pretty simple thing considering the theory I had for Solar

You have personal experience with town players getting that angry in a similar fashion. That shouldn't make you think unwnd is more likely scum than town.

And I have experience with scum doing it too? Your point.

Is this going anywhere or is this yet more spam?

[MathBlade]

Is this going anywhere or is this yet more spam?

You have 850 fucking posts oh my god this is in such bad faith

My posts aren’t spam.

They’re moving the game forward.

Yours are active lurking.

You said you distrust me yet don’t discuss reads and don’t do anything else.

[MathBlade]

So lemme get this straight. You think we’re Solar scum and Dangle is Lunar scum defending us. Makes perfect sense.

Correct. Yes. No facepalm required.

No, there’s actually not ENOUGH of them to say what I think of this take because it’s completely off the charts straight up whack. I can’t even.

If you think we’re both rival scum here, in what possible world is this making sense to you?

This one is good.

Scum are afraid of the town block. So they have to collaborate

[MathBlade]

Since when is there a townblock that scum are afraid of in a game with conversions?

In a game where RR can stop conversions.

[MathBlade]

Is this going anywhere or is this yet more spam?

You have 850 fucking posts oh my god this is in such bad faith

My posts aren’t spam.

They’re moving the game forward.

Yours are active lurking.

You said you distrust me yet don’t discuss reads and don’t do anything else.

You're not interested in my reads, you'd have discussed them by now if you were.

You don’t have any.

All you’ve done of recent note is spam not to trust me.

I’ve asked you several times for them and you don’t share them.

[MathBlade]

You just vigged town totally misinterpreting what Meuh said to you. You can’t be probably making more posts than the majority of the playerlist combined and honestly accuse anyone else of spamming. People don’t want to post because you just drown out any dissenting opinions.

There are no other opinions in thread

There are no “dissent”

There is only scum going “Hey don’t trust math” while offering job reads of their own

Furtive who by the way is also scum tried to save PPF with a Ydrasse wagon that is silly

Like if you want to talk reads bring them up.

Otherwise this is just shit on me which is antitown AF because you’re scum and don’t have a valid push.

[MathBlade]

Alright, exiting this conversation now.

I'm very bad at this
Or rather I find it really hard to let things go when they're blatantly untrue and being repeated ad nauseum

I agree! Hence why I can’t leave the thread while scum are spouting bull shot

Easiest way to shut me up is talk other people and reads

[MathBlade]

hello i am here to save the game from this shit

DDS's reads are:

dds town [implicit]
tbone, scarf locktown 4204 [tbone again in 4501]
PPF town 4825
ydrasse null 4489-4490
math town(?)

yume/csf never mentioned ever so probably null

firebringer was scum but isnt partnered with mmr (?) 4360

enchant scum 4484
mwah scum 4476
furtive/Toogeloo/RR scum 4470

DDS town => unlikely
TBone => Not scum without RR because mechanics imho
Ppf town by play => already refuted and destroyed which DDS ignored
Ydrasse null => I can see this interpretation but they’re probably town
Yume/CSF => is a key part of day open not having a read there is sus
Firebringer is meh just uninterested

Enchant => agree scum
Meuh scum => unlikely but only with PPF and/or CSF/Yume
Furtive => agree scum
Toog => seems bored NAI
RR => unlikely scum. Preventing burning and announcing it is kinda a weird scum power. Would have to be lunar and I don’t buy that.

I pay in sheeps and still am sheeping PPF no?

[MathBlade]

hello i am here to save the game from this shit

DDS's reads are:

dds town [implicit]
tbone, scarf locktown 4204 [tbone again in 4501]
PPF town 4825
ydrasse null 4489-4490
math town(?)

yume/csf never mentioned ever so probably null

firebringer was scum but isnt partnered with mmr (?) 4360

enchant scum 4484
mwah scum 4476
furtive/Toogeloo/RR scum 4470

Ugh fine I'll use this post as a reference for where I (Klick) am currently at

Solid townreads that I feel confident in:
CSF (not sure how this has never been mentioned, the several meta reads on Yume being town are almost certainly right, I don't think Yume has very much potential to deceive at that level)
Ydrasse
PPF
MathBlade
T-Bone
Scarfmanship

I'm conflicted on Meuh/Mastina, there's a lot going on with that slot. If I don't overthink it the slot reads as town to me, but I find the claim really fishy. So *shrug*

Firebringer isn't Lunar but could be Solar

Enchant/furtive/Toogeloo/RR are left and I could see any of them flipping either flavor of scum really easily

The claim is absolutely valid. You’ll see on my flip.

Alignment reads shifting I can get.

The claim is very likely legit though

[MathBlade]

DDS town => unlikely

TBone => Not scum without RR because mechanics imho

Ppf town by play => already refuted and destroyed which DDS ignored

Ydrasse null => I can see this interpretation but they’re probably town

Yume/CSF => is a key part of day open not having a read there is sus

Firebringer is meh just uninterested

Enchant => agree scum

Meuh scum => unlikely but only with PPF and/or CSF/Yume

Furtive => agree scum

Toog => seems bored NAI

RR => unlikely scum. Preventing burning and announcing it is kinda a weird scum power. Would have to be lunar and I don’t buy that.

Green = agree, no real need to discuss
Red = disagree and I don't think anything productive will come out of us discussing this
Yellow = let's chat


What's your read on Yumeslot? I think Yume is town. I don't think they were playing to anything resembling a scum win condition. I think the several meta reads on this being town Yume can be trusted.

If I'm to trust that you actually have reason to believe mastina's role is legitimate, then my faith in her being town goes up drastically. I have understandable trouble accepting this point from you without literal evidence though, and that's probably just going to have to do for now.

I agree that Toog's behaviour so far is mostly NAI. The reason I have them as likely scum is mostly because I have a large amount of townreads. They fit as scum in the puzzle. PoE scum essentially.

Your RR point is interesting to me. What disqualifies RR from being Solar scum who is just lying about preventing burns?

Yume/CSF slot I scumread mechanically but TR by play.
Mechanically Yume/CSF slot says Meuh/Mastina was affected by either a negative action or a kill. The latter is unlikely and the former there is no evidence of either way given unwd flipped VT. It feels slimy. It feels designed but I don’t know why yet. It also contradicts with them offering to have checked me. It’s the same feeling I got in the normal until I put things together.

Assume RR is lying about being able to prevent burns. Then either A) TBone is in on it or B) Another scum can. Both theories seem a stretch and more likely the ability is true. If the ability is true then the only scum would be Solar possible for RR. Given how early RR voted MM a bus is unlikely. Possible but unlikely so I think RR is pretty close to lock town.

[MathBlade]

If Math goal is antagonise people, he is fucking successfull.

UNVOTE:

My goal is to have civil conversation over reads with PPF

Who continues to not do so

Instead it was just piss off Math and it is working.

[MathBlade]

DDS town => unlikely

TBone => Not scum without RR because mechanics imho

Ppf town by play => already refuted and destroyed which DDS ignored

Ydrasse null => I can see this interpretation but they’re probably town

Yume/CSF => is a key part of day open not having a read there is sus

Firebringer is meh just uninterested

Enchant => agree scum

Meuh scum => unlikely but only with PPF and/or CSF/Yume

Furtive => agree scum

Toog => seems bored NAI

RR => unlikely scum. Preventing burning and announcing it is kinda a weird scum power. Would have to be lunar and I don’t buy that.

Green = agree, no real need to discuss
Red = disagree and I don't think anything productive will come out of us discussing this
Yellow = let's chat


What's your read on Yumeslot? I think Yume is town. I don't think they were playing to anything resembling a scum win condition. I think the several meta reads on this being town Yume can be trusted.

If I'm to trust that you actually have reason to believe mastina's role is legitimate, then my faith in her being town goes up drastically. I have understandable trouble accepting this point from you without literal evidence though, and that's probably just going to have to do for now.

I agree that Toog's behaviour so far is mostly NAI. The reason I have them as likely scum is mostly because I have a large amount of townreads. They fit as scum in the puzzle. PoE scum essentially.

Your RR point is interesting to me. What disqualifies RR from being Solar scum who is just lying about preventing burns?

Yume/CSF slot I scumread mechanically but TR by play.
Mechanically Yume/CSF slot says Meuh/Mastina was affected by either a negative action or a kill. The latter is unlikely and the former there is no evidence of either way given unwd flipped VT. It feels slimy. It feels designed but I don’t know why yet. It also contradicts with them offering to have checked me. It’s the same feeling I got in the normal until I put things together.

Assume RR is lying about being able to prevent burns. Then either A) TBone is in on it or B) Another scum can. Both theories seem a stretch and more likely the ability is true. If the ability is true then the only scum would be Lunar possible for RR. Given how early RR voted MM a bus is unlikely. Possible but unlikely so I think RR is pretty close to lock town.

Merged thoughts sorry

[MathBlade]

Good night just a quick yes or no before bed:

If PPF obv towns (I don’t think they will but am leaving this still possible) would you endorse a furtive quick wagon yay or nay?

[MathBlade]

RR is one of those that looks safe by mech but I sr a lot. But it would have to mean, probably, scum with t bone, right?

P-edit cool, I don't think either of them is the lim for tonight and I think is ++ town checking you or rr, either will help massively. Agree? Or will being checked not help enough?

RR if scum is probably lunar. Probably town.

Depending upon if RR’s ability is loud or not then TBone can be any alignment.

(Intentionally lurks)

[MathBlade]

if post.poster == math {
quote(post)
print("spam math sucks to avoid pushing anyone")
}

Sorry not sorry

[MathBlade]

RR is one of those that looks safe by mech but I sr a lot. But it would have to mean, probably, scum with t bone, right?

P-edit cool, I don't think either of them is the lim for tonight and I think is ++ town checking you or rr, either will help massively. Agree? Or will being checked not help enough?

Well, any of that couldn’t hurt, I guess. I think due to MMR flip, unless anyone has even wilder theories than Math and thinks MMR somehow bussed us, we’re pretty much confirmed not to be lunar scum, so I don’t know if any town night actions would be anywhere as helpful as town noon actions on us. Perhaps a tracker or even a jk or roleblocker on us could help? The obvious best action on us would obviously be some kind of watcher because our reasons for being so suss on Scarf is that we think they copped us or are otherwise somehow informed about our role and if they do know our role, it would make perfect sense why they’re trying so hard to get us miselimed.

So in a town you world Scarf would be lunar then?

Since MMR flipped role checker?

[MathBlade]

I'm just not getting into this game. I replaced into a VT slot and there's just been nothing but mechanics talk about traitors and/or cults. Math would have been better vigging me since unwnd actually kind of grasped what was going on. I actually town read them too.

My mindset right now is that we cull the lurkers and hope that the active players get sorted through night kills.

I was thinking that scum was probably hoping Math would misvig us, since I think he specifically had us as his preferred vig target if I’m remembering correctly?

I did. The only reason I changed is because unwd looked so much like Solar.

I would really love if we could get a solar today.

[MathBlade]

I'm just not getting into this game. I replaced into a VT slot and there's just been nothing but mechanics talk about traitors and/or cults. Math would have been better vigging me since unwnd actually kind of grasped what was going on. I actually town read them too.

My mindset right now is that we cull the lurkers and hope that the active players get sorted through night kills.

I was thinking that scum was probably hoping Math would misvig us, since I think he specifically had us as his preferred vig target if I’m remembering correctly?

I did. The only reason I changed is because unwd looked so much like Solar.

I would really love if we could get a solar today.

So how do you still think this?

Why? Scum is scum, why does it mater which one we take out? I’m going to be happy in either case. What I hope doesn’t happen again is another last minute compromise wagon like we had on d1, those are much greater > rand likely to hit town.

Conversion scum is a greater threat than a flat team scum.

There’s associatives that can be taken care of later for lunar scum.

[MathBlade]

Okay I see your reasoning with this but I’m definitely not going to cry if we hit a lunar. And also, counterpoint, if we wipe out an entire team, then it becomes like singleball and easier to solve but I do see merit in the associative argument as well.

I just want to hit scum and I really don’t particularly care which.

I mean I won’t cry if we hit a lunar but if I am right and RRs burning prevention stops converts (likely unless RR converted TBone which is a cross that bridge if we get to it) then we have a bit of time to breathe.

The main problem is if we wipe out all Lunar on elims and no solar we can end up with…
MMR on Dawn 1 => Possible convert of TBone if RR is scum. Otherwise likely failed.
Lunar on Dusk 2 => Lunar kill (12 alive)
Lunar on Dawn 2 => Convert here Solar + 1. (11 alive)
Wake up to x + 1 or x + 2 v 11 - (x+1) or (x+2) on Dusk 3

Let x = 2 then 3 v 8 cult game is the best case scenario. If RR converted TBone (unlikely but paranoia) then it could be 4 v 7 cult game

We need to hit a solar in order to stop conversion issues.
We can’t eliminate solar

[MathBlade]

It gets worse if X=3.

Now combine that with if I get eliminated d1 solar get vanillized and the tiny tiny lie I told earlier and won’t impact reads.

Solar has to die. Please. We have to keep teams balanced.

[MathBlade]

It is 100% in Lunar’s interests to keep me alive because I am pretty sure they know what I am saying is true so I hope Lunar isn’t going to be dumb.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: furtive

[MathBlade]

And you /still/ haven't addressed the thing about Ydrasse, just sidestepped it entirely. It feels very intentional at this point.

I'm not going to read that game. I don't want to. It would be a waste of time. I nearly made a post earlier just to say that I wouldn't read it, but then I didn't. I played in a game with Town Ydrasse. They were low content/memeing in that game as well. It was different. It just was. I know they're not Town in this game. Gladiate us if you want.

Then why push FB if you’re more sure on Ydrasse?

[MathBlade]

Ok, full claim is in order from PPF.

VOTE: PPF

Why? No one wants to elim her. What good is a claim without reads? I don’t see a reason for a claim when no one wants to elim her but me and scarf.

[MathBlade]

Why does "some point" have to be now?

Can you elaborate on some reads when you get time?

[MathBlade]

Why does "some point" have to be now?

Can you elaborate on some reads when you get time?

Yeah sure I'd be down to, I mostly have vague vibereads at the moment, so I'd be glad for someone to force me to actually try reading people
I'm sick right now which means

I should be resting

I have more time to play mafia!

Okay here’s a challenge for you:

Rate every player with a number or phrase as an alignment

Eg Meuh = 10 for locktown
MMR = 1 for lock scum

Or
Meuh = lock town
MMR = lock scum
Random player = town lean

[MathBlade]

Ok, full claim is in order from PPF.

VOTE: PPF

Why? No one wants to elim her. What good is a claim without reads? I don’t see a reason for a claim when no one wants to elim her but me and scarf.

I will want to eliminate PPF if their claim isn't good, and doesn't confirm them. That's why. If people are townreading PPF based on the claim of confirmability, you have to see whether or not it's real at some point.

I don't think scarf is dominating as much as you think? I had them as nully scum until the middle of yesterday and then to me, along with unwind who was similar, they Townes it up.

We seem to agree about math.

There's the outstanding question about you being confirmable though, have I missed it?

Are those people you picked out town, or just easier to read? I think CSF is the most town from that list, with t bone, ydrasse and neuh on the 'id like to be town' list

B

P-edit sorry, you posted reads! Lemme go look

My reads are more a combination of the two and none of their posts actually make me want to gauge my eyes out with a hot poker.

Well, I was hoping that we would have been checked by Meuh or CSF but that unfortunately didn’t happen. Our role is actually confirmable but only on our death, which is why I won’t claim unless I absolutely have to.

How did you miss this post?

…So it’s not confirmable then?

If it is then why not beg for vig?

I don’t follow

[MathBlade]

I'm sorry for not checking you

If you believe in furtive and fire Solar
Furtive is voting fire
Dangle and I are voting furtive

Can I sell you furtive?

[MathBlade]

*please* *gives puppy eyes*

[MathBlade]

I don’t understand why post MMR flip, anyone would be that extremely interested in us claiming but we do have a role that automatically passively takes effect when we die and that’s fucking all you’re getting out of me.

MMR claimed a guilty on you for a reason.

I

highly

doubt you’re that level of PR.

So it’s more likely you’re scum.

I swapped off you to MMR because you were confirmable.

[MathBlade]

It’s the main reason I want to see you do reads more than a claim of a PR I am unlikely to believe.

Town you is opinionated. Scum you is excuse heavy. This seems like scum you.

So I am trying to encourage you to post reads rather than some claim.

[MathBlade]

Except it’s not proven MMR lied.

It’s proven MMR is scum.

MMR did that play for a reason.

[MathBlade]

I don’t understand why post MMR flip, anyone would be that extremely interested in us claiming but we do have a role that automatically passively takes effect when we die and that’s fucking all you’re getting out of me.

MMR claimed a guilty on you for a reason.

I

highly

doubt you’re that level of PR.

So it’s more likely you’re scum.

I swapped off you to MMR because you were confirmable.

Our role does affect the game when we die. When we die, you will find out I was telling the truth, so believe whatever tf you want or not, up to you and yes, that is a partial hardclaim.

Oh no. I believe that.

You just ignored my question of why not beg for a vig then.

The main issue is you could claim the best PR since sliced bread.

The issue is it won’t change my read of you at all.

[MathBlade]

I absolutely regret not vigging you and going for what I thought town agreed upon and what I thought was hero shot.

Pedit: I did

And you did nothing.

[MathBlade]

Going to play Harvestella and eat dinner.

Here’s another chance to prove me wrong.

[MathBlade]

*please* *gives puppy eyes*

Sometimes when playing mafia I feel lost. Who to vote for? Are my reads right? Am I even playing this game correctly in the first place? It's scary, it's anxiety-inducing, it's soul-crushing, but this post has shone a bright light on this otherwise confusing game. I now truly know that Furtive is scum, that they must be eliminated. In so few words, you conveyed your point so eloquently, so completely, so convincingly. It's not perspective, it's not opinion, it's fact.
Furtive truly is scum and I thank you for making me realize this through your magnificent choice of words.
Hell not only did this completely change my view of this game, but of mafia more broadly. Actually that's doing it a disservice, every single day I will keep being positively influenced by the enlightenment that is post 5053. The pinnacle of mafia, the pinnacle of truth, the pinnacle of what matters. So elegant yet brazen, so nuanced yet simplistic, it's hard to put into words the impact of this post. I'm crying tears of joy, I do not know when they'll stop, and more importantly I don't think I want them to. Truly, this post has been life-changing and I'm not sure in which way I could best express this gratitude I most certainly owe you for the life-altering experience that was witnessing this post, that was addressed to me of all people!

VOTE: furtiveglance

Lol in all seriousness yes it wasn’t a case but yeah

Furtive has been on my radar a while. This post was hilarious

[MathBlade]

im stupid but isn't the fact that MMR faked a guilty on PPF just mean they are spewed town. What am i missing math

MMR fakes a guilty under no pressure. Means scum wanted a 1v1 with PPF.
It was intentionally bad. Eg loyal rolestopper to loyal neopolitan.

This being done while no pressure indicates an intentional act.

This wasn’t “I am a cop therefore please elim PPF”

It was “Yo I swear I am town and I spell town S-C-U-M no wait I mean M-A-F-I-A no wait I really mean Village. Yeah that’s what I meant ignore those other things.”

Because the 1v1 benefited scum and was a deliberate sacrifice that makes PPF more likely scum.
Especially since PPF is claiming a PR role and MMR flipped role cop that gets vanilla on Solar.

[MathBlade]

Why? Just from a domino effect I think it kinda has to be you or rr for a cop?

I think ours and maths' slot annoyingly should basically never be limmed. We are perpetually the 'other' scum teams issue.

It also makes rr's target on not us a bit weird, but *shrug*

I don't quite agee with this. If we get a scumteam to where we think one person remains all bets are off.

Honestly an attunement cop on RR to see if he’s lunar or Solar aligned wouldn’t be the worst thing but it’s not the best. It would eliminate some paranoia worlds. (Don’t get me wrong I TR RR, I would just rather cops on scumreads)

[MathBlade]

Fire, the voice of reason here. In what world did MMR NOT lie and fake a guilty on us? Do I need to keep posting the role flip?

I’m running out of brain cells because they keep spontaneously combusting at the sheer mind boggling bat shit insane nonsence I keep reading. Make it stop.

You mean the same flip you said was janitor which wasn’t?

[MathBlade]

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

Solar likely recruits every other day. Unwd’s play matched what I would expect a player to do with that pattern.

It’s not a lot but I am the balancing for it.

Like I can’t explain as it’s way too pro scum.

I doubt every lunar kill is a janitor so it’s a risk I gotta take.

If lunar kills and janitors me and you know I am town you’ll know I had mechanical reasons to think what I did.

If lunar just kills me then you KNOW why I think that.

Wait, what? I thought MMR was janitor?

[MathBlade]

@Fire I would like nothing more than to stop talking about it. Math keeps saying I’m not doing enough but I can’t focus on anything else until people start using their grey matter. Not my fault.

So you can’t focus on giving reads until you’re town read? That’s bullshit. It’s another excuse.

Without claiming is your role useful alive?

Because right now it looks like you’re saying it’s protown to die.

[MathBlade]

ignore math, talk to me

This is Math like every fucking game jsyk. In Pokemon Doubles, I had a hard guilty on scum!Dwlee and Math under an alt tried to get my slot miselimed and because I didn’t know it was actually Math, I wasted one of my three invests on him because I was sure his slot had to be scum but no, he was just unwittingly helping scum out by trying to miselim the slot with the hard guilty.

?? I don’t think I was in that game??

[MathBlade]

Like it’s possible and I have had shitty games where I defended scum ala Pooky in the normal but I generally have reasons.

[MathBlade]

VLA for gobbling turkeys

[MathBlade]

Technically there is a C) as well deliberately doing that bad a claim too.

[MathBlade]

As for my thoughts on it: I think a second factional ability is definitely possible, but not particularly likely to have been used N1 in conjunction with a kill/janitor. So I agree with PPF that MMR likely didn't have a guilty on them.

I disagree.

The OP says multiple factional abilities. While it’s possible the Lunar team only has one I highly doubt this given that it’s highly likely Solar can recruit.

[MathBlade]

¤ Limited Reveal Factional abilities will not be revealed when a faction member dies. Role abilities and alignment still flip as normal.

From the OP.

My guess is that factional abilities are attached to a slot and it’s optional if a player has one.

[MathBlade]

The OP says multiple factional abilities.

¤ Limited Reveal Factional abilities will not be revealed when a faction member dies. Role abilities and alignment still flip as normal.
¤ Solar Cult and Lunar Cult - These are the two scum factions. They have nonstandard factional abilities and are not neccisarily identical. Although they are flavored as cults, conversion abilities are neither confirmed nor denied to exist.

The OP uses the word 'abilities' in the general; it is neither confirmed nor denied whether either scumteam has multiple factional abilities.

Correct it’s not confirmed or denied.

That’s why I said guess, doubt, and disagree.

It is possible that lunar has the one factional ability of janitor, but I doubt it.

[MathBlade]

My guess is that factional abilities are attached to a slot and it’s optional if a player has one.

'Factional' means 'a faction uses this ability'
Factional abilities being attached to slots should not be possible

That’s a bit misleading

I have played in some games where it is (long as X slot is alive scum can Y)

Encyptor is an example of this on the wiki.

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Encryptor

Here you go DDS.

But I would find multiple factionals attached to slots or multiple group factionals highly likely given the OP.

Is it possible this is incorrect? Sure. But I’d rather err on the side of caution.

[MathBlade]

It is possible that lunar has the one factional ability of janitor, but I doubt it.

I agree that it's likely that there are multiple factional abilities existing per faction

What I am skeptical of is that multiple factional abilities could be used together

on the same night

Maybe so. Without knowing more hard to say. I think scum had a reason for PPF and PPF not cooperating kinda seals it for me. They’re being toxic af and anytime I try to block it’s scream about Math time.

So I am good with elimming PPF.

[MathBlade]

My guess is that factional abilities are attached to a slot and it’s optional if a player has one.

'Factional' means 'a faction uses this ability'
Factional abilities being attached to slots should not be possible

That’s a bit misleading

I have played in some games where it is (long as X slot is alive scum can Y)

Encyptor is an example of this on the wiki.

Are you positing that MMR's ability is factional?
The evidence I'd point to against that is the fact that the OP says factional abilities are redacted from scum flips.

I am positing that the redacted portion is a factional that can be used while MMR is alive.

[MathBlade]

I am positing that the redacted portion is a factional that can be used while MMR is alive.

What is your evidence/reasoning for believing this

1) Solar can likely recruit. Solar likely has at least one factional ability.
2) Scum would need some way to balance this. Ergo likely multiple factionals.
3) MMR’s play was really, really bad. Like Roden is capable of better. Makes me think they jestered out.
4) Lunar having three permanent factional abilities without some taper down would be op.
5) I have a conditional for when I die. (Won’t say what) ergo Lunar shooting me would be dumb.

Given that PPF says they have something happen upon death, factionals attached to death are incredibly likely.

[MathBlade]

3) MMR’s play was really, really bad. Like Roden is capable of better. Makes me think they jestered out.

I think MMR's play is best viewed under the lens of 'mostly RH9 with the other two hardly paying attention'
That's consistent with the kind of content we got from them
You and some others have brought up that Roden specifically would be better than this but I see no evidence that Roden was even fully reading this game

Sure maybe Roden wasn’t reading.

But there’s no way they’d agree to have someone claim loyal rolestopper then loyal Neo unless there was a plan involved.

[MathBlade]

As for my thoughts on it: I think a second factional ability is definitely possible, but not particularly likely to have been used N1 in conjunction with a kill/janitor. So I agree with PPF that MMR likely didn't have a guilty on them.

A janitor doesn't have to be factional, we just know it's not what MMR had.

We don’t know that.

Could be in the redacted section.

[MathBlade]

We do at some point because we have to make sure Solar doesn’t surpass town or town + lunar.

A mechanics do play into why some people are scummier than others.

[MathBlade]

The question we need to ask, then, is whether a SECOND factional ability was used by the Lunars on PPF Night 1. And that, specifically, is what I'd like to hear opinions on.

Yes to a second factional ability

T-bone claimed someone tried to burn him -- I'm inclined to believe him and that this was a solar factional action

Someone else tried to do "something negative - either kill or some other negative effect" to meuh -- i don't see why town would do this

Assuming Lunar can't act during Noon, this implies Solar had two actions. It's possible (1) Meuh was killed and (2) TBone was burned, which'd be 2 factional abilities

And ik you asked about Lunar, but if Solar can have 2 as abilities, Lunar can too

I really don’t think Solar have a kill.
It’s likely a negative ability if you’re telling the truth.

[MathBlade]

The question we need to ask, then, is whether a SECOND factional ability was used by the Lunars on PPF Night 1. And that, specifically, is what I'd like to hear opinions on.

Yes to a second factional ability

T-bone claimed someone tried to burn him -- I'm inclined to believe him and that this was a solar factional action

Someone else tried to do "something negative - either kill or some other negative effect" to meuh -- i don't see why town would do this

Assuming Lunar can't act during Noon, this implies Solar had two actions. It's possible (1) Meuh was killed and (2) TBone was burned, which'd be 2 factional abilities

And ik you asked about Lunar, but if Solar can have 2 as abilities, Lunar can too

I really don’t think Solar have a kill.
It’s likely a negative ability if you’re telling the truth.

What mafia game ever does scum not have a factional kill? And T-Bone is giving me shit for my mech analysis?

Recruit games.

Just got done with one. I had cult leader pegged D1 (Meg) and scum Drapion unalived to stop the push.

[MathBlade]

Math is ignoring pretty much everything I’ve been saying like both me and Titus knew he was planning to vig us, so unless Math thinks that Solar doesn’t have a factional killing ability, why would scum!us not kill him? You can think we’re scum all you like but actually thinking we’re complete idiots here is beyond insulting.

yeah I think this is a decent point worth talking about?

I think you’re Solar.

Lunar wouldn’t kill me and Solar I don’t think has a kill.

So it’s inability not idiotic.

[MathBlade]

I would not shed a tear if enchant died today. But I also need to wash my pants.

Same with Enchant but we really need to get a Solar soon.

[MathBlade]

I would not shed a tear if enchant died today. But I also need to wash my pants.

Same with Enchant but we really need to get a Solar soon.

Why? If we assume each scumteam has a kill every other night e.g. Night/Noon, then wiping out an entire team will halve the number of nightkills.

Because as I have said several times Solar I don’t think kill they recruit.

We need to have at least one Lunar around while Solar is a thing.

[MathBlade]

If we can’t agree on someone Enchant is a good fallback but we need to start eliminating Solar soon.

[MathBlade]

Math is ignoring pretty much everything I’ve been saying like both me and Titus knew he was planning to vig us, so unless Math thinks that Solar doesn’t have a factional killing ability, why would scum!us not kill him? You can think we’re scum all you like but actually thinking we’re complete idiots here is beyond insulting.

yeah I think this is a decent point worth talking about?

I think you’re Solar.

Lunar wouldn’t kill me and Solar I don’t think has a kill.

So it’s inability not idiotic.

So you seriously think scum!Yume repped out after Mastina got force replaced? You’re making my head hurt with how bad your takes are.

When Yume obvtowns like she did, she’s never scum and I think Meuh slot was probably locktown post flip, so I can definitely believe scum would target her.

And I think one faction not having a kill is simply just nuts with respect to game balance.

That you’re Solar was regarding you

I have Turkey fog sorry

[MathBlade]

What does it mean to role watch? Do you learn what roles visit them?

I only learn if they were targeted by a kill or some negative ability

. Unlike a normal watcher, I don’t know who targeted them

You’re not reading Math, CSF said kill OR negative ability. That means that Solar does in fact have a killing ability.

I can read.

It’s an or. The first half of the OR doesn’t have to happen or could happen on the first night since CSF said her weapon is stuck.

Please stop trying to gotcha and scum hunt if you’re town.

[MathBlade]

Her action* lmao sorry watching blood on the clocktower

[MathBlade]

What does it mean to role watch? Do you learn what roles visit them?

I only learn if they were targeted by a kill or some negative ability

. Unlike a normal watcher, I don’t know who targeted them

You’re not reading Math, CSF said kill OR negative ability. That means that Solar does in fact have a killing ability.

There’s no logical reason why CSF would have that specified in their role pm if kills did not exist.

I'm pretty sure Math thinks solar has a factional convert and lunar has a factional kill.

This. Agreed.

Enchant as lunar is a good compromise if we can’t elim PPF but we have to start getting solar soon

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Enchant

Much as I want PPF who I think is Solar I think pushing them is just going to make the game unfun.

[MathBlade]

I have role-related knowledge that someone either tried to kill Meuh

or

used a negative utility action on her during the “Noon” phase

Here, it clearly states that CSF can determine kill or neg utility during the noon phase, which means Solar has a killing ability.

CSF can clarify but nothing in this remotely supports your theory Math.

Cool so it’s likely the second or Yume/CSF scum.

Thanks.

[MathBlade]

5135 isn't too unreasonable after the unwnd flip and with mastina and math as two town reads of mine

VOTE: Enchant

Anyone opposed to this?

I think this post looks bad fwiw but since it's multiball I get to pile onto this vote anyways

It’s with furtive who I also think is Solar but I don’t think Furtive or PPF get votes for an elim.

[MathBlade]

5135 isn't too unreasonable after the unwnd flip and with mastina and math as two town reads of mine

VOTE: Enchant

Anyone opposed to this?

I think this post looks bad fwiw but since it's multiball I get to pile onto this vote anyways

It’s with furtive who I also think is Solar but I don’t think Furtive or PPF get votes for an elim.

Yeah CSF/Furtive solar/solar is reasonable

I feel like a Furtive elim is possible? But maybe not at this general activity level. Guess Enchant works fine and hopefully we're better off tomorrow.

I am getting really apathetic tbh.

The fact PPF won’t talk with other slots is getting old.

[MathBlade]

Long as it’s someone in my PoE I kinda don’t care atm.

[MathBlade]

Yeah, I just want people to die and more nights to happen at this point...

Same.

What’s your PoE for each team?

[MathBlade]

If the theory is true that ppl with Night actions = Lunar attunement and ppl with Noon actions = Solar attunment, then I literally can't be Solar since I can only act Nights

I think the theory is *generally* true but not *absolutely* true for town. Mine is more mechanically *lunar* but I am solar aligned.

So I think the night kills/recruits are odd/even but PRs act whenever

[MathBlade]

Attuned* god damn it I am not Solar my phone sucks

[MathBlade]

I think the theory is *generally* true but not *absolutely* true for town. Mine is more mechanically *lunar* but I am solar aligned.

How is it more Lunar aligned? I thought you could vig either Day 2 or Dusk 2

I don’t think it’s protown to answer that.

[MathBlade]

I acted on Dusk 2 today. The mod confirmed post said I am Solar attuned.

That is enough to demonstrate my premise above

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Furtive

I will vote whichever is higher.

[MathBlade]

Math is ignoring pretty much everything I’ve been saying like both me and Titus knew he was planning to vig us, so unless Math thinks that Solar doesn’t have a factional killing ability, why would scum!us not kill him? You can think we’re scum all you like but actually thinking we’re complete idiots here is beyond insulting.

yeah I think this is a decent point worth talking about?

I think you’re Solar.

Lunar wouldn’t kill me and Solar I don’t think has a kill.

So it’s inability not idiotic.

You think Yume was scum??

If you have such a pinpoint perfect read of the game that you can discredit three people's lines of discussion simultaneously with 'well I think you're scum' then I don't understand why you aren't just aggressively pushing your exact solve lol

No I was thinking about PPF as I clarified.

CSF/Yume’s ability doesn’t seem to fit unless it’s a negative utility imho

[MathBlade]

Now you think furtive and us are aligned? He tried to out my role claim. I can’t read anymore Mathblade posts. Please make it stop.

Then don't!!!!!

Am I just supposed to not read his posts? I’m open to helpful advice so long as it’s realistic which this isn’t.

Not reading posts is easy.

Look at me

What are your reads?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

Hey hey a game exists now.

*proceeds to lurk*

[MathBlade]

This isn't directly game related, but I have just tested positive for COVID. My intention is to continue to play to the best of my ability, but my activity, temperament, and logical ability may be compromised somewhat, so I apologize for that

That shit messed me up.

Best wishes RR.

[MathBlade]

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

Solar I suspect has furtive as it’s traitor and doesn’t actually recruit

But Lunar lore having things like werewolves probably recruits

@Math what’s your reasoning in thinking traitors exist?

Scum likely have higher than rand player counts. Easy way to balance that is traitor.

[MathBlade]

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

Likely Solar traitor crumb.

[MathBlade]

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

Solar I suspect has furtive as it’s traitor and doesn’t actually recruit

But Lunar lore having things like werewolves probably recruits

@Math what’s your reasoning in thinking traitors exist?

Scum likely have higher than rand player counts. Easy way to balance that is traitor.

Explain this?

Already did as much as possible it’s related to my roleI want to see you interact with other slots.

[MathBlade]

@Math, you need to link/quote that post(s) for me. I’m not reqding through 800+ posts just to understand your traitor theory and both heads have been interacting plenty with other slots. so I don’t understand why you keep saying this.

And then you have Dangle telling me we’re posting too much. I want some reason to put stock or not into your traitor theory and I would like something more to go on.

Are you claiming that you are somehow informed that traitors exist because otherwise I need to understand your reasoning for that and so far I don’t.

Cool you don’t believe me.

Moving on since you’re scum.

And yes I am not rushing a vote when we likely get replacements. I’d like to see how things play out.

[MathBlade]

I will check back within the time limit.

I want to see you interact with other slots.

I have reasons for believing the way I do.

[MathBlade]

@Math, you need to link/quote that post(s) for me. I’m not reqding through 800+ posts just to understand your traitor theory and both heads have been interacting plenty with other slots. so I don’t understand why you keep saying this.

And then you have Dangle telling me we’re posting too much. I want some reason to put stock or not into your traitor theory and I would like something more to go on.

Are you claiming that you are somehow informed that traitors exist because otherwise I need to understand your reasoning for that and so far I don’t.

Cool you don’t believe me.

Moving on since you’re scum.

And yes I am not rushing a vote when we likely get replacements. I’d like to see how things play out.

Thanks @Math, glad I can always count on you to be helpful and answer important questions.

And you seriously wonder why people don’t listen to you? I’m trying to understand your reasoning and for that I get called scum. Fine, don’t fucking tell me then but don’t you dare say I didn’t try to work with you here.

You’re not.

You’re blatantly rolefishing and solely focused in on me despite everyone telling you to interact with other slots.

You won’t because you’re not town.

[MathBlade]

Because we agreed to disagree 100s of pages abo and you’re still rolefishing me asking me to explain what I can’t and then not talking with anyone else about reads. Let me do an ISO with the last concrete read you had give me a moment

[MathBlade]

PPF, in your own words, what type of result does MMR's role get?

I already answered this multiple times. They receive passive resuits from a factional action. Sounds to me like they found out what Prof’s role was and found out their confirmable one shot was a huge threat.

Based off unwnd flipping vt, and my strongly believing Fire slot is town (because of my FA read + MMR interactions which make them pretty much never aligned with MMR) and RR’s burn thing claim was backed up by T-Bone, so based on all of this, the only lunar read they were correct on was MMR (and that wasn’t a strong read anyway and would be unlikely to have necessated an n1 kill), so that tells me that Prof wasn’t killed for their reads unless they were wrong on RR or Fire, so their role probably had to have been seen to be a major threat to Lunar apart from that.

This is the closest to any sort of solve and it was when I was quiet

So stop talking to me and solve.

Seriously. It’s antitown your fixation.

Move the fuck on.

I will not be responding to your posts further until you push a slot as scum which you haven’t done at all recently despite both of you being tunnellers

[MathBlade]

Quick before flip

Conditional vig. More than one shot that’s my lie

I almost certainly will die at some point due to my conditional death

Lunar would be dumb to shoot me

Won’t say condition and will just fire when I can next

Because I am multishot it’s likely Solar recruits and my death condition links to Meuh/Mastina the role is real but is NAI for their alignment

[MathBlade]

It’s why I absolutely flipped out about Mastina

And why Mastina/Meuh + PPF is very hard for me to shake.

Lunar if you kill me you’re really really silly

[MathBlade]

I yolo shot unwd because to me it looks like RR stopped a recruit quite possibly due to me being multishot

It’s not airtight but TBone is gut sus don’t know why.

If Lunar is silly good luck town.

[MathBlade]

Enchant Furtive and TBone and DDS (deep wolf but I waffle) are last reads besides PPF scum

Good luck!

[MathBlade]

Meuh is my absolutely paranoia scumread that has me nervous she pushed me because of the vanillization.

I die scum become vanillized (hint no recruit)

So scum!Mastina wanted to know what I was.

So I told the truth except about shots.

[MathBlade]

New reads list, haven't sorted this out in a bit. I am left with a PoE of like 5 when I remove town reads and one-scum immunities. I am not happy with this and it would make me feel better if those with one scum immunities were just on the other scumteam. If a town read is wrong then it's probably DDS or FB.

Spoiler: Reads 2.0

Town lean
Radical Rat
Enchant
Firebringer
DDS
Scarf

One-Scum but null
Math
PPF

Null lean
Furtive
CSF

Scum/PoE lean
Toog
Ydrasse
Meuh

This pinged me as sus. Why RR only town lean when he supposedly has mechanical proof of RR’s claim?

Sus he’s lunar? Why no further push then or working with him?

It just feels odd.

[MathBlade]

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

@Math your sr on Meuh/Mastina makes 0 sense unless you’re going to argue she’s Lunar.

No.

I am arguing she could be Solar. Solar were the ones informed if I die then they become vanillized.

So she wanted to know what I was.

[MathBlade]

@Professor? Got an explanation?

And no one died so someone likely has an inno.
Working so can’t talk much.

[MathBlade]

Did anyone die at night?

VOTE: PPF

With prof claiming astral ghost I really don’t see a PPF town world here

[MathBlade]

I think we're losing rn? So that's a fun situation to come back to
I wonder about the lack of death, though

This is what I was afraid of and why I wanted to lurk.

I didn’t want to be responsible for deciding win or loss.

[MathBlade]

summary of public mech would be appreciated

MMR claimed a guilty badly on PPF

MMR flipped lunar

Been no night deaths

I am a multishot conditional vig with a condition of when I die. It’s why I pushed recruitment hard when no solar death. But with no nightkills at all likely both teams recruit which makes things even more stressful

[MathBlade]

I have guilty

Interesting on who?

[MathBlade]

Hey hey everyone! Wow 219 pages in 2 days is a lot to digest…would anyone want to be my hero and give me an idea of what’s going on? No worries if not it’ll just be a bit for me to catch up. At work now so I’ll be mostly out at the moment.

Hard to do this at work. I will afterward

[MathBlade]

I have guilty

I’m interested in Enchant’s guilty since they’re pretty sus on my radar atm. I want to see if it’s town Enchant with a guilty or scum on scum or cornered scum lying.

[MathBlade]

Hey hey everyone! Wow 219 pages in 2 days is a lot to digest…would anyone want to be my hero and give me an idea of what’s going on? No worries if not it’ll just be a bit for me to catch up. At work now so I’ll be mostly out at the moment.

I know I would get to this but I am just exhausted.

I am sorry.

[MathBlade]

I can but we still have to sort Enchant too. Let’s see what he brings. We could use the W.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Dingle

Bahhhh #lazy #wasAlreadyASpicyScumRead

[MathBlade]

Mmm
I lied a bit cause I can actually see T-Bone with MathBlade.
Although It’s Hard to tell why MathBlade pushes Mastina the way they did as a wolf.
TBF I suppose it’s a multi ball and you can do that genuinely in a multi ball or at least from my experiences of a multi ball you can.
Hmm, who am I miss clearing and who am I reading correctly? That’s the question.

I’d love to hear what you were reading while dead like how your reads evolved and what posts changed them being an outsiders perspective.

@PPF - Your theory about Janitor MMR is proven false. How did that change your reads?

[MathBlade]

I kinda feel Enchant + DDS is where I was at. Depending upon who is guiltied by Enchant that may change.

I like the Mastina/TBone/PPF solve except for RR preventing burning on TBone. By play it makes sense but I don’t think the mechanics fit. So we would need Mastina TBone PPF RR. Which is a lot

[MathBlade]

Mmm
I lied a bit cause I can actually see T-Bone with MathBlade.
Although It’s Hard to tell why MathBlade pushes Mastina the way they did as a wolf.
TBF I suppose it’s a multi ball and you can do that genuinely in a multi ball or at least from my experiences of a multi ball you can.
Hmm, who am I miss clearing and who am I reading correctly? That’s the question.

I’d love to hear what you were reading while dead like how your reads evolved and what posts changed them being an outsiders perspective.

@PPF - Your theory about Janitor MMR is proven false. How did that change your reads?

What specially would you like to know?
I’ve stated quite a bit. Shocked on both Bunny and Unwnd flipping town.

I know TicTac grew stronger of their Scarf Read during the time we were away from thread.

Mainly like an event.

Not blanket statements but things like

“Damn that MMR vote was awesome so X became town”
Or “Damn that MMR vote was sus so X became scum”

Replace MMR vote with an event of your choosing.

[MathBlade]

I have role-related knowledge that someone either tried to kill Meuh

or

used a negative utility action on her during the “Noon” phase

Yume has been my strongest tr since I unvoted her, so that makes CSF pretty much locktown for me.

And this also makes it extremely likely that I was right about Mastina being town.

@Prof

?? There have been a whole 0 kills in the game besides my kill and an elim. If anything this makes CSF more sus not less.

[MathBlade]

I kinda feel Enchant + DDS is where I was at. Depending upon who is guiltied by Enchant that may change.

I like the Mastina/TBone/PPF solve except for RR preventing burning on TBone. By play it makes sense but I don’t think the mechanics fit. So we would need Mastina TBone PPF RR. Which is a lot

Isn’t there only 3 wolves or are you assuming conversion is a thing?

Also, Enchant is town I’m pretty damn confident in that like I was with Furtive.

…Did you read yesterday?

I am assuming conversion and my last post was full claiming (much as I possibly could) to explain that justification.

[MathBlade]

Mmm
I lied a bit cause I can actually see T-Bone with MathBlade.
Although It’s Hard to tell why MathBlade pushes Mastina the way they did as a wolf.
TBF I suppose it’s a multi ball and you can do that genuinely in a multi ball or at least from my experiences of a multi ball you can.
Hmm, who am I miss clearing and who am I reading correctly? That’s the question.

I’d love to hear what you were reading while dead like how your reads evolved and what posts changed them being an outsiders perspective.

@PPF - Your theory about Janitor MMR is proven false. How did that change your reads?

I’m not good at mech, so first off you really need to explain that to me. I already explained why I thought that.

All I know for sure is that they lied about targeting us and I already thought Prof was town.

…Janitor MMR was your theory. I can’t explain what your current theory is now because I am not in your head?

Can you please reread my question again?

[MathBlade]

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

If scum has so many recruits, how do we ever win?

Also Math, you hint a lot at how your flip will reveal a lot. What happens if lunars janitor you...?

Solar likely recruits every other day. Unwd’s play matched what I would expect a player to do with that pattern.

It’s not a lot but I am the balancing for it.

Like I can’t explain as it’s way too pro scum.

I doubt every lunar kill is a janitor so it’s a risk I gotta take.

If lunar kills and janitors me and you know I am town you’ll know I had mechanical reasons to think what I did.

If lunar just kills me then you KNOW why I think that.

Wait, what? I thought MMR was janitor?

What mech do you need explained?

You had a thought MMR was janitor.

MMR did not flip janitor and there was no janitor in play unless professortic is scum.

[MathBlade]

So based on whatever mech understanding you have right now, I am asking how your reads changed.

[MathBlade]

can we not do a redo of yesterday with PPF and Math going at it forever. I think we can improve gamestate by having everyone else chat and you guys add commentary to min

Fine.

Why do you think Enchant doesn’t have a guilty?

[MathBlade]

Thanks. I will keep that in mind.

VOTE: PPF

Yes MMR can be a janitor of which there’s no evidence of.
Go talk to Titus head if you’re Nancy and if you’re Titus Omg just …where are you?

[MathBlade]

The yes MMR line is sarcastic

[MathBlade]

Now I am done talking with PPF until the heads sync. That post is ridonkulous

[MathBlade]

Thanks. I will keep that in mind.

VOTE: PPF

Yes MMR can be a janitor of which there’s no evidence of.
Go talk to Titus head if you’re Nancy and if you’re Titus Omg just …where are you?

Why is there no evidence? You’re being deathtunnelled on us for very silly reasons.

The person “janitored” was professortic.

They were astral ghost per their claim.

Ergo no “janitor” unless professortic is lying.

Ergo CSF = sus as there have been no kills

[MathBlade]

The yes MMR line is sarcastic

Well technically, unwnd was killed

I meant scum kills or night kills

Mine I am pretty sure are obvious

[MathBlade]

Listen Meuh vibes are off to me. I don't know what it is but i come in here and im immediately like. Yep Meuh is def scum.

Kinda vibe that.

But I have a selfish reason for Meuh slot to live to tomorrow then elim it.

[MathBlade]

I probably won't vote meuh tbh. She was targeted during Noon, so she's probably not Solar, and then she can act on Noons, and I'm currently thinking that means she can't be Lunar.

Second premise I already suggested yesterday doesn’t hold.

I acted at Dusk but am blessed by Sun God.

The first premise I don’t believe?

I am assuming recruits yes.

[MathBlade]

cat scratch blink once for if ur teamed with meuh and twice if ur not with meuh

Avatar didn’t blink CSF is SK!

[MathBlade]

I probably won't vote meuh tbh. She was targeted during Noon, so she's probably not Solar, and then she can act on Noons, and I'm currently thinking that means she can't be Lunar.

Second premise I already suggested yesterday doesn’t hold.

I acted at Dusk but am blessed by Sun God.

The first premise I don’t believe?

I am assuming recruits yes.

You should believe the first!! Fair to the second

However, if we're unable to cross off people as either not Lunar or not Solar based off of might actions alone, then... Is it just me or does town have so little power?

Or maybe it’s extremely consolidated in a place that scum can’t kill without risking losing.

[MathBlade]

Meuh and PPF are probably not on same team if both scum.
Would be pretty spicy if Meuh was Lunar considering MMR.
Wait could they even both be scum......hmmmmmmmmm

Survey feels like a no

Why do you say this? They feel very teamed to me.

[MathBlade]

I probably won't vote meuh tbh. She was targeted during Noon, so she's probably not Solar, and then she can act on Noons, and I'm currently thinking that means she can't be Lunar.

Second premise I already suggested yesterday doesn’t hold.

I acted at Dusk but am blessed by Sun God.

The first premise I don’t believe?

I am assuming recruits yes.

You should believe the first!! Fair to the second

However, if we're unable to cross off people as either not Lunar or not Solar based off of might actions alone, then... Is it just me or does town have so little power?

The more I think on this: What if you’re the “negative utility” that hit Meuh?

[MathBlade]

Mmm
I lied a bit cause I can actually see T-Bone with MathBlade.
Although It’s Hard to tell why MathBlade pushes Mastina the way they did as a wolf.
TBF I suppose it’s a multi ball and you can do that genuinely in a multi ball or at least from my experiences of a multi ball you can.
Hmm, who am I miss clearing and who am I reading correctly? That’s the question.

If it helps either I've been cleared by Rat or we're scum together.

There is an edge case where RR is town and you’re lunar and RR stopped you burning but for the most part yes.

[MathBlade]

I think Math is cleared though now that we know Prof wasn't a kill. So it's not worth entertaining. If I were to assume that people's actions were true, that takes Math, Rat (me), DDS, meuh, CSF, Prof out of the lim pool right now. Am I missing a claimed action somewhere?

I don’t get how a good chunk of those are out of the lim pool.

Explain please.

[MathBlade]

I think Math is cleared though now that we know Prof wasn't a kill. So it's not worth entertaining. If I were to assume that people's actions were true, that takes Math, Rat (me), DDS, meuh, CSF, Prof out of the lim pool right now. Am I missing a claimed action somewhere?

I don’t get how a good chunk of those are out of the lim pool.

Explain please.

You/DDS can only be one scum. Meuh/CSF are tied together for now. Rat is tied to me right now from my perspective. Prof was out of the game and returned, it could be a scum ability, but if the scum teams are recruiting instead of say, priming targets for arson related shenanigans, then at the very least prof had no opportunity to recruit.

1) Much as I like not being in a lim pool that isn’t a good reason. Each player only has one alignment.
2) Again, yes they’re tied together. Doesn’t explain why they are not elimable.
3) prof exited the game and came back… so then you said could be a scum ability so they’re elim able.

Just because someone claims PR doesn’t mean not elimable.
The only one I’d argue for that right now is RR, and that’s only tenuous.

[MathBlade]

The fact Dingle is so high for T-Bone makes me think Dingle might be Solar with Them and Rat or something.

Damn I’m not sure if I trust T-Bone anymore or not as I really think Dingle is a wolf.

Error: If Dingle and TBone are aligned, Dingle and TBone must be Lunar. Dingle cannot be Solar due to mod announcement day one.

This is your friendly MathBlade robot vig. Beep boop.

[MathBlade]

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE: Going to sleep now.

Sad there’s no guilty I could just vig tomorrow

[MathBlade]

I have role-related knowledge that someone either tried to kill Meuh

or

used a negative utility action on her during the “Noon” phase

Yume has been my strongest tr since I unvoted her, so that makes CSF pretty much locktown for me.

And this also makes it extremely likely that I was right about Mastina being town.

@Prof

Why are people ignoring this? MMR spewed Meuh not Lunar and how does CSF gets this result if Meuh is Solar?

CSF is Lunar poisoning Solar Meuh.
CSF is lying.

I consider very few people not Lunar because MMR’s claim seems so bad to be intentional.

[MathBlade]

Heck maybe Mastina started town and Meuh got recruited

Lots of possibilities.

[MathBlade]

I claim compulsive Scarf hugger if he wants it. <3 Sorry you’re not having fun. I don’t know if you like memes or jokes?

[MathBlade]

I’ve been disregarding looking at claims sure but I’ve been following up with VC’s.
And VC’s mean allot actually.

Unless there is some claims that makes Rat and Dingle town.

I don’t give an absolute fuck what socially thing they have said, it’s the VC that matters.

Unless TBone flips scum I don’t go for RR until endgame. It’s possible RR is Lunar and TBone town but like if that world is true RR is helping town unless TBone is lunar scum.

[MathBlade]

The main problem I have with your list TBone is that you aren’t willing to vote out a single active PR claim. I doubt all of them are scum.

[MathBlade]

Aren’t scum*

[MathBlade]

Your conclusion that scum are winning and scum don’t have PRs seem opposed here.

Pedit: I know. I am trying to solve that disagreement?

[MathBlade]

And my posts aren't addressed to you, I think your disagreement is reasonable!

Do you think that the slots I am most considering are all town?

Not sure. I just found a logical error and want to see how you address it.

One is in my PoE and one I TR currently so maybe?

[MathBlade]

I claim quote breaker. I break the quotes on the site but if I break two quotes from players of the same alignment I die.
(This is a joke)

Who do you think is scum with Radja?

I don't know. Probably some players who haven't posted anything I felt the need to comment on yet.

But if I'm informed...then I am informed she is scum because we're on the same team. That is 100% the only way I can know her alignment in this game. So you should be voting for her and then when she flips scum try to lim me tomorrow.

Or maybe the other way around, because if that were the case, you'd just kill me when she flips scum, or she'd kill me if you flipped scum. Either way, I'll be that and thus unable to lim you tomorrow, even if she flips scum.

What is the other way around??? I'm town and I know she's scum because...?

You see, I've played that game before. Scum asks me to spare them today and then push them the next day, and then kill me before that next day comes.

I'd like you to vote me if you think I'm scum to be honest. It would be the most honest play you've made all day phase. I never asked you to spare me, and I never will. Why did you make this statement?

Because you said to lim mastina now and you later.

You can try to lim me first if you want, I don't care. What I'm getting at is that you have come up with a scenario where Mastina has to be scum, based on what you said in this thread. So that you're trying to lim neither of us (and reading her as town despite the insinuation I know she's scum because I'm scum with her) doesn't make sense with what you said.

What changed between here and now?

[MathBlade]

I don't know where I said that I think scum are winning? I think with 13 players alive we still have plenty of game to go. I don't think we're anywhere close to MiLo personally.

Might have confused you with the professor but I don’t see up winning right now based on what is present.

[MathBlade]

Earlier you were willing to vote the Yume/CSF slot. What changed?

[MathBlade]

Okay then why not voting Meuh?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Meuh if CSF is true I feel Meuh has to be converted.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Meuh if CSF is true I feel Meuh has to be converted.

What's the evidence for this? Day play wise

Meuh has been very quiet despite the TRs and not doing anything despite being vocal before.

It’s a noted shift.

Also working off premises if your power is true then when me or DDS die (hence the Unvote) then it’s likely a scum team goes from recruits to kills.

So premise A: Assume CSF is telling the truth.
Meuh wasn’t targeted with a burn unless RR and TBone are scum
Meuh wasn’t targeted with a kill (still could be wrong about the burn thing being a recruit but doesn’t matter for this example here because Meuh can’t be hit by burn without RR and TBone scum)
Meuh wasn’t targeted with a block because Meuh got a result
Meuh likely wasn’t targeted with a redirect as no evidence the result is wrong
So a recruit is the most likely option for that neg utility.

[MathBlade]

on page 4, why is the mastina slot still alive?

matina's reads were so obviously fabricated it made eye roll irl

Because they tunnelled my slot and claimed a useful PR.

I have always had scum pings from her.

Are you an experienced player?

[MathBlade]

on page 4, why is the mastina slot still alive?

matina's reads were so obviously fabricated it made eye roll irl

Because they tunnelled my slot and claimed a useful PR.

I have always had scum pings from her.

Are you an experienced player?

aight haven't gotten to the claim yet

I have played mafia for almost 10 years

Any of those with Mastina? I don’t need a game. I am more trying to assess if my culted theory is correct or not. Mainly Mastina is an amazing system but has some differences that can read fake. I still scumread the slot either way but I want to assess you.

[MathBlade]

Because I think Mastina(Meuh) and CSF have to contain at least one scum but could contain two or you might be.

[MathBlade]

proffesotic town?

Town or recruited yes. I don’t see a way for him to be a self sacrificing d1 scum. That’d be weird.

[MathBlade]

on page 4, why is the mastina slot still alive?

matina's reads were so obviously fabricated it made eye roll irl

Because they tunnelled my slot and claimed a useful PR.

I have always had scum pings from her.

Are you an experienced player?

aight haven't gotten to the claim yet

I have played mafia for almost 10 years

Any of those with Mastina? I don’t need a game. I am more trying to assess if my culted theory is correct or not. Mainly Mastina is an amazing system but has some differences that can read fake. I still scumread the slot either way but I want to assess you.

uh can't discuss but I've read some of her games, so I know how she plays, so far this is scum mastina for me

Noted. More just making sure you have experiences with Mastina as neurodivergence can read fake to neurotypical people and vice versa

[MathBlade]

btw I'll be reading for the next few hours since I'm free for the weekend, but if anyone wants to ask me anything I'll be around, if you want me to engage with current events you'll have to quote for me cuz I'm really far behind

also why in the world you have 999 posts? @mathblade

I originally wanted to lurk.

Mastina tunnelled me for it and outed my crumbs.

So I was forced to claim so I have to play every day like my last.