i was saying you were still correct!!In post 2216, Meuh wrote:English is my second language you meanie...In post 2214, fireisredsir wrote:im both wary and wearyIn post 2212, Meuh wrote:I guess if you're more weary of VPB than I am that makes more sense, for me that push has been the staple of Midway's gameplay so it irks meIn post 2210, fireisredsir wrote:i think he's just had pure thought process and approach all game and has been generally pushing in good directions, and trying to shut down pushes on what i think are town
i don't really see any reason to scumread him unless maybe your name is baltar and your role pm is green but even then i still think he's probably town
New Year Dance Party [afterparty]
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
can you give reasons please? i usually find your reasoning behind your reads to be fairly solid and well thought-out as town, even if you're generally quiet about it. so i would like to hear itIn post 2305, UNOwen wrote:
Flattery has got you 80% of the way. What do you think of Ydrasse? I have a feeling she's scum.In post 2228, Shirou wrote: @Unowen your leafs are dazzling and I would like you to come be part of the MariaR/Furt wagon family. What would it take for this dream of mine to be realized?-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i don't hard town furtive. i thought ausuka was scummy early and then maybe towny later. furtive has been mehIn post 2316, Shirou wrote:I dislike both fire/ydra insistence on hard town reading MariaR/Furt
shea seemed towny and also unaligned with ari. maria entrance was kinda scummy but she's been better lately
i don't really want to vote them bc i haven't seen any convincing reason besides "i said so"-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i don't think it would be at all unlikely for ari to defend partner ausuka there, and actually imo slightly tilts +scum to meIn post 2335, Meuh wrote:I think option 2 is the most likely by a fair margin, because I can't really find a real incentive for Ari to be protecting her teammate at that point in time, especially Ausuka. and the alternative of Ari/Shirou needs to cross the hurdle of Shirou being scum in the first place which I doubt. Plus, this would also mean that Shirou is literally bussing his entire team, which like, bold, and also I'd expect him to be hard towncasing me right now if that was the case because I could always wind up getting scumread and ruining his entire plan. and on top of it all, Ari was scumreading Cakez to try to distance, right? So I'd find it odd for her to take the opposite approach to other teammates.
So I guess Ausuka's probably just town? Like their posting irks me in several ways but interactions with scum are much more meaningful than weird posts so I can't really see scum!Furtive fit into the picture
I honestly entered Ausuka's ISO wanting to end up scumreading them so I could confidently help out Shirou's push but uh, nope
I also wanted to check out every post from Ausuka/Furtive but I don't feel like it anymore, especially now seeing Ari's stance.
If anyone has a different perspective on Ari/Ausuka please do share because those posts speak volumes to me here
taking the opposite approach to two different scum partners seems totally reasonable and i don't know why you'd rule it out? i really doubt that just bc ari was bussing cakez that she would bus her whole team. i think scum literally always have incentive to defend their partners, ausuka was picking up a decent amount of suspicion around that point and ari successfully defused shirou's scumread there
in turing test in scum pt ari talked with scum partner roden about a distinct meta tell she thought he had and how he should respond in order to get townread, and then shared the meta tell in thread
she was attacking roden there more i think but then backed off. i think it's very believable that she would defend ausuka especially if they were in communication in the scum pt about what ari believed to be ausuka's meta-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
furtive was very survival focused in datisis cafe but i think he can be that way as town too was kinda what i was thinking when i referenced house of the dragon
it is true here tho that there is less incentive for town to be strictly survival oriented bc its possible your partner can be scum
ig whats hard is sorting through whether furtive's strong townread on maria is out of necessity or if it's a genuine read. if it's a genuine read then it's understandable that he would be survival focused, and i also think it's understandable that he would have that read-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
it could be but it isn't this time
you can cry if you want to for the hypothetical universe where i am scum in which i would probably also make that post-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i don't think shirou is also scum, no. but i think ari could have had the convo in advance with ausuka, and maybe prepped her with the point of like "i would expect you to omgus pretty hard on the first person who suspects you btw" and then when it happened she came in ready with the meta case
i don't think it's for sure that it happened that way but i think it's believable having seen how she interacts with her partners and plans around them-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
part of why i thought ari was scummy d1 was that she was mostly focused on the dance/romance aspect and said she didn't want to take things seriously at all but then there were a couple little moments where it felt like she stepped outside of that role and made a point to push someone away or towards a certain read and the way she did it felt motivated
that was one of those times imo, ill look and remind myself what the others were one sec-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
Spoiler:
ok yeah mostly these + the push on cakez were where i felt the vibes
so that's
- defending shea (ausuka and shea are paired at this point)
- pushing that ausuka and shirou are tvt
- again defending shea
- defending baltar
all of these felt off to me at the time and were a part of why i was scumreading ari. the points were correct but the way she was making them felt like it was motivated
i think it's pretty likely that a standard scum approach to this would be to defend the town that is paired with a scum partner. it's easy to do because you can use your tmi powers to push something that is correct, it doesn't actually implicate you for defending scum, and it helps prevent your scum partners from getting eliminated
im slightly talking myself into a furtive scum world here. i think especially that ari's argument with shea, while probably unaligned with shea, is interesting for the fact that she never really pressured shea at all for it or had any sense of a threat of scumreading him due to the argument. some people have said that the argument felt off, and i think it's possible that this is why. not that she's paired with shea, but that she isn't interested in limming him bc his partner was scum
i also think that similarly the defense of baltar could be motivated to protect owen
thoughts?-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
ari's scumgame is good but i think she isn't at all afraid to be straightforward and just push for what she wants
last time i played against her i saw the points at which it looked like she could be making these same types of pushes of scum agenda but i wasn't willing to pull the trigger on it partly bc it seemed like it was almost too blatant (specifically thinking of turing test where she pushed for the kitty towncase right when she needed a dann elim, for those who played/read that)-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
2362In post 2373, furtiveglance wrote:
What is this in reference to this game?In post 2372, fireisredsir wrote:ari's scumgame is good but i think she isn't at all afraid to be straightforward and just push for what she wants
last time i played against her i saw the points at which it looked like she could be making these same types of pushes of scum agenda but i wasn't willing to pull the trigger on it partly bc it seemed like it was almost too blatant (specifically thinking of turing test where she pushed for the kitty towncase right when she needed a dann elim, for those who played/read that)-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
it's possible yes. i think it's pretty unlikely that shea was scum personally but obviously nothing is 100%. i think it's more likely that her argument with shea (which was about whether cakez was scum or not) had the vibe that it did bc she didnt want to push the pairing.In post 2376, Meuh wrote:I did notice Ari defending Shea right before defending Ausuka which now that you bring it up, yeah they're a pair so her behaviour towards them as a group is interesting
Though regarding Shea/Ausuka, do you think the opposite could be true and Shea is the partner while Ausuka is town? I should probably give a second look at that argument between Ari/Shea but last I checked I don't think it looked impossible to be paired. Because I think that's a more likely possibility at this point
I guess it doesn't really matter who the scum is in that group as long as there's one, huh
but yea it doesn't really matter which it is-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i agree that some of the early questions felt like they could be a little forced and that was part of my suspicion. but i think looking at the way ari handled different pairings i would much rather look in the ones she defended than in the one that she seemed most like she wanted to yeet?In post 2387, UNOwen wrote:
The reason is that her early play looked designed to get partnered by someone, specifically the point about Meuh. The comment on Drapion does not have much of a scum motivation at all really if you think about it, so I'm very unconvinced that Ydrasse was as bothered about it as she's making out. More likely explanation for her zeroing in on it is that she was trying to look proactive and solvy.In post 2311, fireisredsir wrote:
can you give reasons please? i usually find your reasoning behind your reads to be fairly solid and well thought-out as town, even if you're generally quiet about it. so i would like to hear itIn post 2305, UNOwen wrote:
Flattery has got you 80% of the way. What do you think of Ydrasse? I have a feeling she's scum.In post 2228, Shirou wrote: @Unowen your leafs are dazzling and I would like you to come be part of the MariaR/Furt wagon family. What would it take for this dream of mine to be realized?
That's a tone read which admittedly I could just be interpreting wrongly. I don't think so though. Nothing else she's done points to town. The big post she made on reads a while back looked designed to keep options open ("X could be the case but maybe it's Y" etc.) and her defense of you when you were under pressure looked pretty panicked and not very interested in your alignment.
like you said that she seemed a little bit defensive/panicked when our pairing was under pressure but do you think that makes sense when a lot of the pressure was coming from ari?-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i think it's towny more bc it feels like she's genuinely evaluating and isn't trying to push any narrative with itIn post 2436, midwaybear wrote:
it looked fine to me, and there's no way scum meuh puts that much effort at this stage in the gameIn post 2407, Gimli wrote:Meuh's post is way too large and what I read wasn't any good, feels like busywork to me but IDK I just got here
its a post that's fakeable as scum but it is more likely to be town imo-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
btw i did reread where ari started pushing me. and it def was after there was significant pressure on norwee and GL had made it clear that was the lim he wanted
i don't think it's impossible that ari would want to focus on distancing there by trying to push a pair that has scum in it but i also don't think it's the most likely explanation? there were only 4 votes on them and that seems a little early to be heading into antispew. i think the sudden turn onto me makes more sense if she's trying to get a town pairing eliminated
for further context it was also before shirou made the case on maria and there were a couple votes on baltar/owen-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i don't really see why shirou scum throws a fit about demanding that he gets his choice of elim here. doesn't seem like that improves chances of winningIn post 2474, Gimli wrote:are we sure shirou is town? is this thing he is doing outside his scum range etc?-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
i think she's been towny lately but i did also find that series of posts to be very scummy. she was my top scumread along with ari after pairing endedIn post 2483, Gimli wrote:
.In post 977, Ausuka wrote:
Meuhhh are you a wolfIn post 975, Meuh wrote:I think scum!Ari would back down and basically just tell you that you're right
im now slightly leaning towards feeling that the posts are more likely to be uninformed than not just in the way they come across but idk-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
like maybe im projecting the thought process i had at the time here but 977 sounds like "that is a really bad reason to clear ari and that makes you suspicious" not "you sound like you know ari is town" bc nothing in the quote really sounds like meuh knowing for sure that ari is town-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
it's really cute im a fan :>In post 2491, Shirou wrote:Ty, tired of playing edgy thread tyrant I decided to become a cutie pie-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
my vote is for your pairingIn post 2515, VP Baltar wrote:
Is everyone here voting for me?In post 2501, Datisi wrote:UNOwen & VP Baltar [5]: midwaybear, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, MariaR, furtiveglance
This comes across as a wagon meant to save Maria more than I think anyone has made an actual scum case against me, and that says plenty.
hope this helps-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
the thing i feel most compelled by at the moment is the places where ari chose to step out of her way to push an idea into the threadIn post 2579, GuiltyLion wrote:sorry y'all this first week back at work + life kinda kicked my ass, I have not read since last time I was here
I will definitely definitely play today
can someone tl;dr the Baltar/UNOwen wagon in the mean time
I don't think I've felt scumvibes from either
and thinking about why she would choose to do that in those instances
i talked about it a bit in 2386 and a few surrounding posts and came away from that thinking that the places where there was most likely to be scum (maybe two) is in furtive/maria+owen/baltar pairings-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
wdym about the nightkillIn post 2587, furtiveglance wrote:Baltar leaving if town would probably be protown yeah. The nightkill would be interesting
why would leaving make it more interesting-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
yes. earlier i thought you found the point about owen/baltar compelling enough for you to vote there?In post 2604, furtiveglance wrote:Your insight is that both main wagons could have mafia-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
it just seems like a weird thing to say if you also think that the main wagons contain scumIn post 2613, furtiveglance wrote:
I don't think soIn post 2609, fireisredsir wrote:im just confused what your point is. do you think my conclusion is opportunistic/scummy?
You can consider my post a meme if you want-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
do you really think wolves "know they can't push you"In post 2630, MariaR wrote:Yes, he's blantantly trying to stay alive. I don't think he's the worst in the thread though by far and I'm curious if it's wolves pushing him cause they know they can't push me.
thats kinda hard to believe even for you-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
although in a dance game it does seem a little weirder for town bc there is always a decent chance you get elimmed for something you can't control (your partner)
so focusing on that does seem a little more survival focused than most town are
which we've kinda already covered that furtive is on another tier of survivalism compared to most town and its possible that he just is that way as town but i think it is less likely and probably the one thing i do find suspicious about him-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
who knew his master plan to get you to suspect him could be accomplished by just disappearingIn post 2706, GuiltyLion wrote:I actually do think the gamestate feels like FB is decent odds of scum.-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
from datisi's cafe:
this post still makes me laugh but it is a furtive scum postIn post 2951, furtiveglance wrote:Pagetopping this because I'm so important:
Please don't kill me I'm way too young. I still have so much more to give. I am just now getting into my stride. I am extremely desperate. I am willing to transfer you Furtcoin.
from house of the dragon:
but he was pretty openly self-pres as town too and also used the "but i voted scum!" argumentIn post 4947, furtiveglance wrote:Here's an argument and a desperate self pres vote:
Datisi town flip: We have 3 confirmed Town, max 1 dies in the night
Datisi scum flip: We have 1 dead Mafia (good in itself), and we know that he (probably) tried to clear 1 other Mafia (looking at LLD)
Me town flip: wow he was a bad player, get better furtiveglance (even though I literally voted for both flipped scum and put my life on the line TWICE idk what you want from me at this point)
idk-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
im also not voting you lolIn post 2701, furtiveglance wrote:Well my point is that fire's reason for voting me is nothing to do with me-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
also im wondering, this seems like it implies maria hasn't been that active in the pt, is that right?In post 2575, furtiveglance wrote:
I think I missed you in our PT as wellIn post 2565, MariaR wrote:Man back in my day dance pts had like 500 posts plus I miss them
Or did you want me to do like 495 posts-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
having a small pt isn't suspicious to be clear
me and ydra have like 50 posts and most of them are about music
but both of us when asked about it have said that it was not getting used and there wasn't anything useful in it
you said that maria's posting in the pt was strong enough that it was a major part of your townread on her and when questioned on the read you fell back on the PT as an explanation
that seems pretty disconnected-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
are you saying you did misrepresent your ptIn post 2737, furtiveglance wrote:Bad play I agree-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
firebringer dance game teamsolve possibly 0/3 = must be scum = low hanging fruitIn post 2741, Firebringer wrote:
wait how am i low hanging fruit.In post 2706, GuiltyLion wrote:the towniest thing IMO is that his solve is just bad unless he is town and I feel like scum in his shoes would be trying harder than just pointing fingers at the LHF slots (Enchant, FB, Owen)-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022
-
-
fireisredsir Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9251
- Joined: January 25, 2022