Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

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I have once again failed to roll scum and its getting a little obnoxious.

[Thestatusquo]

I have once again failed to roll scum and its getting a little obnoxious.

skill issue

Would you say you're more or less skilled than I am. Hypothetically speaking.

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I guess I should go read the rules of this game.

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Ok so wait:

@mod

The elimination mechanic is
A player challenges another team
At that time no other challenges can be made at all and the elimination must happen between the four players on those two teams?
I.e. all players can then vote within those 4 players?

also "The issuing challenge team will receive 250 after the challenge is completed."

Is it 125 per player or is there a team account balance? I ask because all the items language seems to be speaking in terms of individuals but this currency seems to be distributed collectively?

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That's cool. Whats your vibes rn

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disapting

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Is it alisae?

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Pooky why havent you tried to recruit me to a cult yet

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You in particular having an early scum read and being interested in talking about it is extremely weird to me.

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HC is posting a bit in our point but has yet to post a real thing in this thread. Interesante.

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Also I hope we get challenged at some point because theres definitely a "you can vote for shea, or you can vote for HC, but you can't vote for johnson" joke here somewhere.

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Something about furtive's faith in scum is making me doubt he's telling the truth in 87.

Not real.

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Something about furtive's faith in scum is making me doubt he's telling the truth in 87.

Norwee is scum.

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Why mobile quote why

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So either freedom is town trying to pick at minute things in order to start something or scum trying to find a footing into the game but I have a hard time believing that he actually thinks furtives comments about the items are scum indicative.

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Why is norwee on your list

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What

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Isn't that what everyone does at the start of a game

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Isn't that what everyone does at the start of a game

Yeah, but my personal response to Norwee's was that it was sus.

how so

[Thestatusquo]

This feels like ex post facto justification to me.

I think you put him on the list because i had just said he was scum.

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Post 137 was the post that made me say norwee is scum by the way, it smells like exactly how i would expect scum to react to turn theory crafting a breaking strategy.

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I can see why you would confuse me with ari we are basically the same person

You're cuter

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furtive do you think my poking at you is reasonable

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In my brief pt conversation i think HC is town

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gamma town btw

[Thestatusquo]

Getting increasingly suspicious of alisae's LAMIST entrance followed by nothing.

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I'm gunna flame u no matter what so follow your heart.

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I answer Are you ready for fun?

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Getting increasingly suspicious of alisae's LAMIST entrance followed by nothing.

id challenge alisae but i dont want to be accused of being a thief also i got flamed last time for challenging early

You can't kill alisae yet regardless of her alignment

Our PT is too fun for that, I promise it's gonna live up to Shirou & Meuh in post-game.

Hi im aliseauh

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Shirou am I town or am I dancer

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can you answer the question? We talked a lot about mafia theory in site chat recently so I'm genuinely curious.

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that's about the answer I expected.

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I think the scum team is alisae furtive norwee and then the fourth is a mystery but is not one of HC gamma enchant

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"Parachuting or bombing is a method of swallowing drugs by rolling or folding powdered or crushed drugs in a piece of edible paper to ingest while avoiding the unpleasant taste of the chemical. It is sometimes called a "snow bomb", especially if using cocaine."

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that's about the answer I expected.

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I am confused by this challenge.

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pushing cakez to see if he complains about not having a good game in over a year again does seem like a solid strat though.

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I dont really wanna lim any of these 4 tbh.

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Norwee remains scum.

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I am confused by this challenge.

I think Cakez is scum and I believe my read rate on him is solid enough that it's a good challenge

why

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get with the times tbone we don't 1v1 anyone instead we have a nice productivity improvement meeting with the happy folks of the happy buisness corp training staff.

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In about 1.5 hours I will post a very important photo in this chat fyi.

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ngl I kind of feel bad power limming cakez given how the last game went.

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Ok I'll say it: tbones reaction to this is ass.

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I'd like the justification for the read before any of that shit so I can compare the behavior.

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I kind of don't really know what to think right now so I'm just gunna let the thread simmer for a bit and think.

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I think Shirou is just scum. There's no reason to assume just because I explained why I think Gamma could be town or that I don't want to lim my PT partner that it has to make Pooky scum.

Meaning you were open to limming Pooky, but not scumreading them? I don't really get that.

This is more of the same from norwee.

On the surface this seems like maybe an interesting thing to delve into, but if you think for a few seconds it falls apart.

T-bone is forced to lim one of those 4 people, so of course he has to be open to limming one of these 4 the game literally cant progress until we do.

[Thestatusquo]

Idk why you've been on my ass all game but you do you i guess TSQ.

Your takes and actions don't seem like they're coming from a town mindset to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Idk why you've been on my ass all game but you do you i guess TSQ.

Your takes and actions don't seem like they're coming from a town mindset to me.

Thanks that's very clarifying.

You didnt ask me for clarification, you made a snarky comment.

[Thestatusquo]

You seem to think I'm ?scum? when I wasn't trying to powerplay?

i think you're scum because you're openly trying to get t-bone to vote me via a manipulation tactic that is scummy af and i also found your mech analysis pretty lacking tho i was willing to ignore that because you said you wanted to chillax this game.

why do you have your panties in a knot over 1 singular vote
if anything villagers should be open to the idea of using their vote to apply pressure
it's not like the vote is going to make or break your wagon

I don't get the issue

really weird framing here

address the concern
VOTE: pooky
not rly interested in this PvP mindset bullshit of attacking back and my main concern is I don't see how what you are describing is wolf indicative at all

mmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

No actually
what's the point of responding like this
these are basically just nothing responses that if anything what you think of the post.
so like what's the point?

im laughing at your openwolfiness and telling you i know you're a wolf just wait your turn

Well if you don't give me any room to solve your slot and treat me like an enemy then really you give me no room to try to find the innocence in your slot

this is lazy and also not true.

[Thestatusquo]

Of these four I don't want to lim gamma and I guess I feel pretty similar about all three of tbone and sircakez but the speed of the sircakez wagon makes me not like it at all.

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Shea I just don't get the PvP mindset from the gecko or why he wouldn't respond and continue to try to pick a fight with me

Sure but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of solving the slot and I find it kind of hard to believe that town!you would respond that way.

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*all three of tbone sircakez and pooky

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I guess my townread on gamma should give some credence to the read and the play but like idk mayne.

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I feel like I've been the one calling out random scum teams so please make sure I get credit for that on my annual review and don't give it to that slacker pooky.

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You thought Cakez was likely scum but thought T-Bone being dodgy about it and not voting you instead even when he said he felt inclined to do so wasn't associative?

You think me egging him about it is the problem instead?

i think you trying to get him to vote the way you want without stating a read on cakez is classic scum trying to control lim direction without committing to reads and the way you waffle on cakes smells awful

If I wanted to lead votes on you I would have voted you

The unique reason I'm not voting you yet is because the way you're playing towards me seems like powerwolf trying to overplay me except I'm not easy to mislim

yes that makes so much sense shirou.
you're not voting for me because you think i am a POWAWOLF and those are RARE CREATURES that must not be voted.

This seems like a deliberate misstatement of what Shirou was saying.

[Thestatusquo]

Honestly I'm pretty frustrated by the fact that I can't vote the people I think are scum, but I guess that's just how this game works.

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What's your power solve shea

I posted it already. Do your diligent duty and find it yourself.

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Unlucky. I'll just post it postgame after we lose in ELO and it was the whole team.

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theres like some real chance thats a hammer. I think cakez might have had 6-7 already?

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I think Shirou is just scum. There's no reason to assume just because I explained why I think Gamma could be town or that I don't want to lim my PT partner that it has to make Pooky scum.

Meaning you were open to limming Pooky, but not scumreading them? I don't really get that.

This is more of the same from norwee.

On the surface this seems like maybe an interesting thing to delve into, but if you think for a few seconds it falls apart.

T-bone is forced to lim one of those 4 people, so of course he has to be open to limming one of these 4 the game literally cant progress until we do.

I was looking for your solve and saw this
in a regular run this would be true but there are options to change it

Doesn't change the fact that the mindset a townie should have here is "ok, I need to be willing to lim within these options" and that's exactly the mindset that tbone was displaying and norwee was picking at.

[Thestatusquo]

Wait shea I legit can't find it

This feels like you're just trying to trick me into doing more buisness work.

[Thestatusquo]

Promise this isnt a trick?

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I think the scum team is alisae furtive norwee and then the fourth is a mystery but is not one of HC gamma enchant

@Fen

[Thestatusquo]

I think her entry to the game was incredibly lamist and awkward and didn't seem interested in doing anything to start the game play.

That was basically all it was at the time but I'm not loving the way you're interacting with pooky either.


@Alisae

I think I'm incredibly good at reading gamma and I think this is definitely town gamma and I'm not really interested in explaining further.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the scum team is alisae furtive norwee and then the fourth is a mystery but is not one of HC gamma enchant

@Fen

I have ali and norwee as maybe-scum rn, cakez and shirou are my leading suspects
why is furtive scum for you?

I've played with town furtive twice in a row now and he just feels different.

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I'm not lock scum on furtive or anything.

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std why are you like...doing stuff.

its weird.

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I think its more accurate to say gamma is an emotive player rather than an aggressive one, although those things do sometimes overlap.

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I found some stuff he said in the PT to be townie, but hes kind of dropped off since then, I assume because he has to actually work like a degenerate.

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He said that he had a bunch of things he thought about the optimal play for this setup but when I asked him for it he told me he would tell me later if he thought I was town.

Like its possible that scum would make that play but to me it seems much more likely that scum would be trying to pocket me in the PT rather than do something like that.

[Thestatusquo]

Welcome to the Buisness company potluck.

I have worked diligently to prepare ziti for the company

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H...hot?

[Thestatusquo]

So wait was enchants thing not actually broken?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Cakez
I asked Penguin and yeah, it's weird for Cakez to not make an effort to contribute.

This is hiding disguised as collboration

Making me think Freedom/Cakez S/T so I'd like to wait for Cakez' reappearance

Why is Cakez town to you?
You can ask Penguin on what he said in our PT.

Ok I lol'd at that

Then I must refer you to...this post

Did you forget to mention this?

Full disclosure, I was actually initially looking for that one in which I was scum but couldn't find it

You get a pass on the second one but I'm still not convinced why you TR Cakez. As he has done close to nothing in thread and your only reason for him being Town is based of pre-flipping.

look at this post as scum if cakez flips town for sure.

[Thestatusquo]

I've focused so much on Pooky that I think I missed a lot of the thread

prob re:reading tomorrow from the start

goodnight?

almost feels intentional.

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I feel like your reasoning for the 1v1 was spurious at best.

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Shirou very townie Pooky still idk.
That's what i got out from previous pages.

Explain further what is townie about shirou

[Thestatusquo]

Shirou very townie Pooky still idk.
That's what i got out from previous pages.

Explain further what is townie about shirou

I'm basing this on my meta knowledge. We've been chatting on Discord for a long time so i feel like i'm probably the best judge of character on their alignment. Haven't been wrong a single time so far. (Well, minus our first game together back in like 2019)

excuse me what

[Thestatusquo]

Hi Cakez. I don't super think you're scum but I don't super think pooky or tbone is either and I town read gamma pretty hard so like...If you want me to not end up on you you're gunna need to convince me that pooky or tbone is scummzors.

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why are those things related

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You have to beat me to challenging norwee who has done actual zero things that make me think he is curious about literally anyone's alignment and imo anyone not challenging him is a scum claim

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Please make me literally any argument why norwee is town.

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Mostly to ali because I think they're playing around the norwee slot and my slots interaction with it in a way that really doesnt make much sense.

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if I were scum trying to say someone was my highest town read while they were turbo tunneled on my buddy a nebulous "theres two wolves in this random pile" is exactly where I would put them.

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Haschel town read doesn't make much sense either imo.

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Why is me challenging norwee rash

[Thestatusquo]

Why is me challenging norwee rash

I just don't like the idea of having to vote anyone in your team off. I think that limits the scope of what possible information can be gotten and it quickly becomes an icky situation if we don't want to vote norwee off for whatever reason.

what???
I think what you're getting at is you'd rather another team challenge norwee if it's gonna happen but this is weirdly phrased

That would be more ideal ya.
I think it's phrased like that because like I feel like that challenge specifically forces me to elim Norwee regardless of if I like it or not. Even if he ends up towntelling, I would have to pick a different person in that challenge to want to vote to eliminate.

Like there's just no plan B it forces everyone to vote this player or not vote and that's kinda icky... Kinda like the situation a lot of other players are in right with with like cakez...

Welcome to literally thats how this game works.

[Thestatusquo]

The argument that town who is perceived as town should let players who are more likely to be wolves have a larger hand in shaping the eliminations is quite literally an insane argument.

[Thestatusquo]

"I dont know anything about the mechanics of this game but I'm going to theory craft about them anyway"

Alisae, are you just like hard open wolfing here?

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man I'm trying to choose gladiate that are beneficial for everyone trying to form reads on the game. I know people think shirou is a wolf so I want to see who votes them out compared to another option.

If you want to just kill someone and put your ego over what's best for everyone else & the game then just miss me with that shit bro. Way to make the game about you and your reads. Very cool!

your argument for why it is good is bad. You could attempt to deal with that instead of trying to be snarky.

[Thestatusquo]

For someone who thinks I'm town, you sure do think we should do mostly the opposite of what I think we want to do. I would think that would maybe cause you to stop and pause to consider if maybe our motivations are not the same, but you don't seem to be doing that.

The same way you engage with any argument. You equating me asking you to defend an argument you made with me asking you to kowtow and do whatever I say is an insane narrative misrep.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't believe you didnt know about money, by the way. It's been referenced in every post by the mod, it was in the sign up thread, I asked a clarification question about it. You're a person who is frequently known for delving into mech and game theory.

I believe that was an attempt at a deliberate dumb tell.

[Thestatusquo]

Anyway, heading to bed. Good luck with the kow towing or whatever it is you think being asked to defend your arguments is.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really care anymore then challenge who you please. Not worth getting angry and ruining my stress free mafia experience over.
I don't wanna learn the mechanics I just am here to find wolves.

I just here to play a stress free villager game and do it in the way that I wanna do it.
I am completely just uninterested in the mechanics of this game outside of challenge the person you wanna kill, and it's going to stay that way until I am either forced to learn them, the end of the game, or me being dead.

I suck at sleeping.

The point is you keep saying this, but you're not. You're not disinterested in the mechanics of the game. To the point where you made a mech argument which in my opinion if we listened to you would lead to mafia systemically having more control over lim pools than town.

That's why I don't believe you. The last few posts have just been

"oh poor little villager me just here to play a good honest game of find them wolves without knowing at all about the structure of the game I'll be findin' em in. Do the mechanics matter for how we find em? Don't care! By the way, here's a mechanical argument for why you shouldn't go after your scum read and also players who are town read shouldn't challenge people but I'm definitely not interested in mechanics! How dare you imply that I care about mechanics! Why I would never! Whats that you say, I'm well known for being deeply interested in mafia mechanics? No, not this time. I'm just here to do some good old fashioned puzzle solving. What's that you say? Knowing the rules to the puzzles is important to figuring out how to solve them? Bullshit. I've never heard of money in my life!"

[Thestatusquo]

Thats good, its not really for you.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm having a hard time deciphering this fight because i agree mostly with pooky but i don't think shirou is scum. I felt this way about a lot of things he was saying in dance also where it's just like well i don't believe that/agree with it but it's said with such mind bending confidence.

I should read a shirou scum game to see how good he is at replicating specifically that vibe.

[Thestatusquo]

Part of my trouble with reading shirou is that he plays every game like hes the main character and that does look a lot like open wolfing to me sometimes.

[Thestatusquo]

thats the biggest factor in your read of pooky? "He shaded me on one read?"

[Thestatusquo]

Oh, sorry. Did that offend u.

This is now the second time that somehow has responded to a completely reasonable thought on my part with a completely bizarre interpretation.

No I'm not offended, I would like you to have reads that are more thought out than a random ben shapiro clip. Could you do that? Or is there some other reason why this is probably the most substantive thought you've given on someones alignment this game?

[Thestatusquo]

I realize this will just make my position worse like every single time ever. But it’s really annoying how i try to get a footing and everyone susses me. Makes me empathic for Cakez. Like what has he done, nothing. But Gamma just thunderdomed them. I also hate the vibes Pooky and to an extent Shirou has created in this game. I’ll be honest, i didn’t really townread Shirou. I just think one of them must be scum and i’d much rather believe it’s Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

I'm not asking you for anything difficult, I'm asking you for baseline town behavior. Trying in ANY WAY to determine the alignment of people you're playing with.

Cut the woe is me crap. Try to figure out peoples alignment. Do townie stuff.

You're not doing townie stuff.

[Thestatusquo]

So the shiro town read you told us was a meta lock was just a lie? What is going on.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not going to be voting pooky this phase. I agree with two much of what he's saying.

I'm not voting gamma.

So that leaves me with tbone and cakez and neither of them seems to be really interested in making a compelling argument why they're town.

[Thestatusquo]

(note by compelling argument I don't mean literally town case themselves, I mean the aforementioned 'doing townie stuff.'

Why does no one in this game want to do townie stuff.

[Thestatusquo]

There hasn't really been much engagement from haschel in the PT since I last talked about it other than to say he agrees with me on norwee and thinks pressure there is good, so I'm wavering a bit on my townie lean there.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea have u considered that maybe ur the problem?

Yeah you're right Alisae, I'm the reason that people aren't playing to their wincons. Good point. Excellent analysis.

Do you have any comment on the game to add or are you just going to post nonsense like this some more?

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like tbone has been towny in how he’s reacted to stuff but that’s not the sort of content you’re looking for so I understand not seeing it

can you talk to me a bit more about that

[Thestatusquo]

Ur just loud and shitting up the game so i don’t townread you.

idk seems like maybe a reasonable townie reaction to what was supposedly a reaction test of you giving a fake read would be saying that the read felt fake and attacking you.

You know, exactly what pooky did. So if you're claiming to be making a reaction test what reaction were you looking for, exactly?

[Thestatusquo]

Shea have u considered that maybe ur the problem?

Yeah you're right Alisae, I'm the reason that people aren't playing to their wincons. Good point. Excellent analysis.

Do you have any comment on the game to add or are you just going to post nonsense like this some more?

If I can find people doin townie things then u can too it’s not THAT hard.
My suggestion to u to be to suspect people for things wolves actually do? Not whatever this is.
Idunno I just see ur fos and think ur off the mark when it comes to all of them

I have plenty of town reads this game, maybe you should try reading the game instead of this petulant nonsense.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you want to try defending your mech argument (when you don't care about mech at all this game! no idea how money even works!) for why we should let scummy players determine who the lim pools are again? Or would that be asking you to kow tow too much.

[Thestatusquo]

So are you saying you were wrong?

[Thestatusquo]

Alisae what are your top two town reads and scum reads and why?

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It was the why I was after

[Thestatusquo]

Does not answer my question. If you squint its kind of related to an answer to my question, but there are no bonus points for close.

[Thestatusquo]

@gamma I guess those posts are just hitting us different.

For me the first three are all posts that I have seen coming from scum before. Some scum respond to pressure with bluster and bravado and on some level I think t-bone is kind of that sort of player so I don't think those posts are out of scum range at all even a little bit.

I guess I strong disagree on the masonry thing too, because I think that scum are more likely to want a strong working relationship for pocketing reasons and town are more likely to be trying to discern the alignment of their pt mate.

I'm inclined to take Tbone at his word and just not weight this point very highly because it seems like theres some unpleasantness in the history there that I don't really think is relevant, but I guess I think your premise for town reading it is pretty bad.

The rest of the posts seem like definitionally null to me, imo.

[Thestatusquo]

i think alisae's gameplay has made sense so far

in what way and what parts

[Thestatusquo]

I think STD is town, I think the thought process and motivations for his posts is pretty clear. I am a little bit paranoid of this because if I'm being completely honest I don't associate STDs town play with this style of game, and I'm kind of unused to him posting as many thoughts as he is. My self pushback on this is that if STD was going to cultivate a meta of not tryharding very much as town I doubt he'd then go and not use it in his scum play so I'm pretty happy to ignore the paranoia for a while.

I think pooky is town. I agree with most of what he's said about you and shirou and norwee. If theres a crack there its that I have a bias towards town reading people who agree with me, so I need to be mindful of that and try to account for it, which I think I am doing.

I thought haschel was town, based off of the conversations we had at the beginning of the game in our PT but he's fallen off more towards null to me because he's not giving me a ton in the PT and hes giving nothing here.

I think gamma is town because I think I am pretty good at picking out the ideosyncratic differences in how she plays town vs scum and I think I have a very good track record of reading her and this feels like town gamma to me.

Thinking about it now I guess I kind of town read sircakez a little bit. When he was in a very similar situation last game as scum he seemed much more survivalistic than he is being here, which I think I attribute to a "fuck it, this keeps happening to me I don't even care anymore" attitude which manifests more as town than as scum because scum don't want to let their buddies down.

I found the mech thing from enchant to be really townie but they've basically done nothing since then and honestly everyone always tells me enchant is easy to read but I can't figure him out so like I guess just stick with the town point vibes until I need to reevaluate.

[Thestatusquo]

my last post was a response to alisae in case that wasnt clear

[Thestatusquo]

IM HERE MOTHERFUCKERS GET OUT OF THE WAY

solve the game pls

[Thestatusquo]

wow there's a shop in this game?
not even thinking about that unless I like actually get money lol

This post is never coming from S-S Alisae-SCz, if that's ever relevant.

[Thestatusquo]

I think pooky is town. I agree with most of what he's said about you and shirou and norwee. If theres a crack there its that I have a bias towards town reading people who agree with me, so I need to be mindful of that and try to account for it, which I think I am doing.

How can you be so sure? I don't think I have a confident way in reading Pooky and I think of him as someone who is actually just capable of anything. Someone like LLD.
I only have 1 thing to go off of and it's pretty heckin weak.

That 1 thing being I thought his point with like scum framing was something that I would realistically do, and I think that made sense for him to have that read, but like he could still be a wolf pushing that read too?
Ideally this is the player that would just get nightkilled. There are people that are WARY of this player and those are the people that are in the elimination pool.

I think the key to finding the truth in this situation is just patience and being able to take the risk of flipping someone.

Anyway please do your best to be open minded and mindful that you can be wrong. This comes to anyone really.
I think if Pooky is playing to an audience, that audience is you.

I'm not sure, I guess maybe that read comes across as more confident than it is, but generally whenever someone is making points that I agree with repeatedly I tend to town read them, I recognize that pooky has a wide scum range, but I'm happy with town for now.

[Thestatusquo]

Are people unaware of the context of the johnson thing?

[Thestatusquo]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=89663

[Thestatusquo]

^Johnson context

[Thestatusquo]

is it? Have you never seen scum make tilt posts before?

[Thestatusquo]

Fun fact I may have found Raymond J. Johnson on YouTube

I do not understand your PP read can u please elaborate on that please ty

heh pp.

(also peepee could definitely be scum)

[Thestatusquo]

Whats fake about it?

[Thestatusquo]

I think in the dark scum does tend to make that post more than town though

[Thestatusquo]

Pooky - STD are wolves

because the pool of Shirou freedom PP are 3 slots that I think have a decent chance of flipping wolf

my reads are lookin like this atm

shea std furtive enchant
gamma
t-bone* pooky** Haschel

penguin cakez Norwee Shirou Freedom - I have 2 wolves in this pair. Probably 3 but 4 if Pooky is town
*I think it makes sense for him to be town. Though in the back of my mind I am aware it isn't impossible for a wolf to do what he's done so far
**it is very possible that I am getting fearmongered but like I think he is probably a townie?

I thought you couldnt think of anything that would have caused your reads to change.

Seems awfully convenient.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess my problem with Alisae this game is that their opinions seem to move with thread sentiments and not with actual changes in the game state.

Like, I don't think I remember Alisae talking about StD at all before this little bit, she asked for my town reads and made a point out of disagreeing on pooky but didn't mention the StD read at all and had them listed as a top town read as recently as like 30m ago.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't believe you didnt know about money, by the way. It's been referenced in every post by the mod, it was in the sign up thread, I asked a clarification question about it. You're a person who is frequently known for delving into mech and game theory.

I believe that was an attempt at a deliberate dumb tell.

does anyone even do dumbtells as scum? i have never ONCE seen scum dumbtell it's always just town who were actually dumb

I do.

[Thestatusquo]

Pooky - STD are wolves

because the pool of Shirou freedom PP are 3 slots that I think have a decent chance of flipping wolf

my reads are lookin like this atm

shea std furtive enchant
gamma
t-bone* pooky** Haschel

penguin cakez Norwee Shirou Freedom - I have 2 wolves in this pair. Probably 3 but 4 if Pooky is town
*I think it makes sense for him to be town. Though in the back of my mind I am aware it isn't impossible for a wolf to do what he's done so far
**it is very possible that I am getting fearmongered but like I think he is probably a townie?

I thought you couldnt think of anything that would have caused your reads to change.

Seems awfully convenient.

Norwee and Cakez are townier. If anything Cakez comin in guns blazing with takes against the grain makes me re-evaluate and reconsider my own takes and I'll admit, STD is a read I am more likely to be wrong on compared to someone the other 3 in the townbloc. I think my annoyance with you comes from you being a villager and you believing the things you believe in, and my furtive and enchant reads I think are solid.

Norwee I think is starting to village post so Shirou also goes up.

I think haschel is still likely to be town and gamma is probably town by their own play now as I'm starting to see that

this leaves me at what
this

furtive enchant shea gamma cakez
Norwee Shirou haschel

T-Bone

Pooky
penguin freedom std

And Pooky - STD is an arrangement that makes sense to me so

furtive is your top town read now what

[Thestatusquo]

Something I noted earlier about Ali is generally when I disagree with someone about literally everything I tend to try to evaluate whether or not this is coming from a difference in motivation, and I've seen literally none of that thought process
from Ali as it relates to my slot. I just keep floating around the town reads with no reasoning as to why and no attempt to understand my motivation.

So either Ali just thinks I'm stupid (possible) and doesn't think I'm capable of being this aggressively wrong from eir pov, or Ali's read on me is just completely not genuine.

[Thestatusquo]

*this aggressively wrong as scum

[Thestatusquo]

tbf I'm pretty sure I've seen pooky drunk post exactly like that as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't want you to vote pooky tho.

[Thestatusquo]

guess in mafia people love to hold you to your worst moments and use that over everything else jesus

Stop doing this AtE shit, it's not getting you anywhere as either alignment. You're playing a mafia game and people are suspecting you. That's what happens in mafia games. You're not being aggrieved here as either alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you really see yourself as low hanging fruit in this game?

[Thestatusquo]

you think I'm honest and want to be right but just happen to be wrong on everything?

[Thestatusquo]

Can you explain again how we got from STD is your second highest town read to making the declarative statement STD is a wolf in the space of an hour? I understand reads shifting but thats pretty drastic. What was the thought process behind std second highest town to begin with, and what exactly about the possibility of an STD-Pooky pairing made you disregard that reasoning?

[Thestatusquo]

That once again does not really answer my question.

"vibe check" is a reasonable answer for gut town reading someone, its not a reasonable answer for putting him second in the game.

[Thestatusquo]

That once again does not really answer my question.

"vibe check" is a reasonable answer for gut town reading someone, its not a reasonable answer for putting him second in the game.

Bro can u just like chill in this game.

There's literally nothing wrong with this post, it is questioning someone about their motivations in a game of mafia.

If you have an issue with it take it up with the mod/list mods and drop this performative crap.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm just saying you could give people room to breathe because they way you go about questioning doesn't seem very conducive to actually sorting people correctly.

Once again if you have a problem with how I play mafia feel free to take it up with the list mods.

[Thestatusquo]

yea my scum master plan is to pick fights with people i cant vote

that makes so much sense alisae

gold star

Do you really see no scum benefit to attacking someone who can't be voted?

[Thestatusquo]

Hey shirou. You're pretty neat.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: tbone

I dont want to flip cakes.

I think pooky and gamma are town.

[Thestatusquo]

shirou doesnt even believe im mafia

hes just voting me to shut me up

EXACTLY actually

I think you flip town more often than you flip scum but I'm voting you because not only I'm never letting scum!you get one over me like this, even if you're town I'm just repaying the favor

you've been throwing the same shit in this thread since the game

started

Man I've made this argument as scum so many times.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm town this time.

[Thestatusquo]

Hi Titus

[Thestatusquo]

You replaced someone who didn't do very much.

[Thestatusquo]

What has titus done thats scummy?

[Thestatusquo]

could you unpack why

[Thestatusquo]

Why does that make her scum?

[Thestatusquo]

T-Bone what do your reads look like

Roughly I have Enchant as clearly town, a few players I'm leaning town on like Gamma, Pooky, Cakez who I am treating as town, null for a lot of slots that I just haven't been able to interact with. Null lean for slots I may have interacted with but don't have an alignment impression on, like Shea, Furtive, you now. A lean scum on Haschel but like slightly, and then I think Shirou is clearly scum.

Unfortunately I develop my reads via interactions and I haven't had them as much as I would like so far. I'll be able to develop my reads better as the game goes on and the players in my null spaces become real players.

I'm here to vibe if you want. Ama.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean I don't really get your game and if not for you posting your town reads like 10 pages ago I'd have no idea where you stand. Like do you think Alisae is scum? The majority of your posts are interactions with them. And then I'd like to know generally what are you getting out of people when you're asking questions? With the exception of Alisae I can't recall any specific instances where you've asked a player something and then followed up on the question or made some sort of indication you were affected. If we strip out your Alisae interactions it looks like busy work tbh. I know who you think are town but I do t know who you think are scum.

Which to be fair is more information than most of the player list has offered.

I think I've been pretty clear on who I think the scum are. I even ventured a few team comp guesses.

I think the scum team is alisae furtive norwee and then the fourth is a mystery but is not one of HC gamma enchant

I have a pretty big town core, I pretty hard scum read norwee and alisae. PP is someone who is more on my radar now than when I made that post.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the difficult part for me this game will be figuring out which of my town reads I'm wrong on because I surely am wrong on some of them.

[Thestatusquo]

I think busy work is an extremely odd way to describe my play, tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

always do

[Thestatusquo]

If Pooky is mafia then this pressure literally means NOTHING to him because Pooky flips before Shirou does.

If Shirou is uninformed of Pooky's alignment and actually thinks Pooky could be scumclaiming by backpedalling or w/e nonsense he wrote - then he shouldn't CARE about Pooky's pressure because the pressure can't actually do anything to him Shirou can't be voted right now! Pooky is like 2-3 votes from flipping. There's no actual need to deal with scum!pooky, just flip him and laugh at him.

also i just want to point out this is one of the most ??? arguments in this game

i was considering you more likely town than not up until gamma hinted you may be reconsidering suddenly at E-2, which then i began to consider actually scum indicative, and then Gamma said you just hadn't said anything about that in the PT and i cut the questioning short

i was always finding the pressure annoying at the point in time i thought you were more likely town than not, if Gamma had confirmed you had said something along the lines in the hood, i obviously would no longer treat it as just a wrong tunnel but an attempt at powerwolfing (?gone wrong?). you're using stuff from a different time to claim it doesn't align with my thoughts at a specific future timeframe

it...just doesn't make any sense

why the fuck would i powerwolf tunnel someone i cant vote out thats too stupid even for me to do

You keep saying this and it's an incredibly stupid argument and it's one of the things that doesn't sit right for me. There's a ridiculous amount of scum motivation for this, and you aggressively claiming there isn't repeatedly to the point of derision feels off.

[Thestatusquo]

"why would I, a scum, get into useless slap fights that gum up the thread and have no in game consequences for me because the person I'm attacking will never be limmed"

Huh no idea dude.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't care about your self meta.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm saying that your argument doesn't make sense.

You are making a claim that scum don't benefit from doing x when I think its not only pretty clear that scum do benefit from doing x, but also scum do x all the time for those exact reasons.

I don't then care that you then tell me that YOU wouldn't do x as scum because you as scum are incredibly benefited by that argument and theres no way for me to verify it. All I can do is look at the motivations that I think very clearly exist.

[Thestatusquo]

Thats disingenuous, pooky. The structure of this game is different from most games in that in most games you CAN technically eliminate anyone, but some people are more limmable than others. Are you really making the claim that you've never done a shit push on someone who had no chance of being eliminated that day because of game state reasons for the purposes of muddying the thread and distracting from other discussions?

I call bullshit on that. I do it all the time as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

so if this thread agrees to yeet me and deadsheep me until im wrong how exactly do i benefit from that

Scum say shit like this all the time because (le gasp) they don't actually expect to be yeeted. It's an AtE argument intended to make it look like they don't care if they die a lot of the time.

[Thestatusquo]

there's no point arguing with Pooky TSQ you aren't going to win

What are you trying to accomplish with this post?

[Thestatusquo]

The point of arguing in mafia games is too win primarily if you're scum. Town shouldn't really care about "winning" the argument most of the time.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not saying its a tell I'm saying its an example of another argument that I don't think reads as genuine. Like, maybe you expect to be yeeted today, but knowing you and knowing your faith in your abilities, I kind of doubt it.

I already agree with you on most of your reads though so I dont know why you're grandstanding with me other to not get voted so it feels like you're simultaneously saying "yeet me and sheep me" and also trying very hard to get me not to vote you.

[Thestatusquo]

Thats disingenuous, pooky. The structure of this game is different from most games in that in most games you CAN technically eliminate anyone, but some people are more limmable than others. Are you really making the claim that you've never done a shit push on someone who had no chance of being eliminated that day because of game state reasons for the purposes of muddying the thread and distracting from other discussions?

I call bullshit on that. I do it all the time as scum.

I'm telling you this play is literally too stupid for me to do as scum

you can think its a good scum play all you want.

God this is so tilting, I am completely sure you've made a push on someone who was unlikely to get limmed because it confused the thread and didn't go anywhere before.

Are you really claiming that the only reason mafia makes pushes is to directly lead to lims?

[Thestatusquo]

So why don't you want me to try to work through pookys alignment?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not saying its a tell I'm saying its an example of another argument that I don't think reads as genuine. Like, maybe you expect to be yeeted today, but knowing you and knowing your faith in your abilities, I kind of doubt it.

I already agree with you on most of your reads though so I dont know why you're grandstanding with me other to not get voted so it feels like you're simultaneously saying "yeet me and sheep me" and also trying very hard to get me not to vote you.

I'm just having fun dude

I assumed you wanted a conversation with me when you said what you said

if you didnt want one then I can stop talking at any time

Literally what?

[Thestatusquo]

I dont know what about "I don't agree with your answers and I find your worldview kind of confusing" means "I didn't want to talk."

That seems like an incredibly bizarre read.

[Thestatusquo]

@Shea what are hoping to accomplish by arguing with Pooky?

The same thing you're probably hoping to accomplish by asking me this question i would think.

[Thestatusquo]

The sample size of games needed to actually mathematically have any sort of understanding of gammas ability to read cakez is so much larger than the sample were dealing with here that this whole conversation is comical.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm attempting to understand and read him. I think that was incredibly obvious from my original answer.

[Thestatusquo]

I think I'm coming around to shirou just being scum.

[Thestatusquo]

If I had to put my finger on why I feel like there's some amount of his progressions that just feel kind of off to me. Like, looking at his read on me I think its kind of weird that he makes such a super big deal or talking about how I could be scum and I'm such a great scum player and has me at the very bottom of his read list above the scum tier but its not like, really hedging in terms of how he's treated me. I have always gotten the impression this game that he was interacting with me with the assumption I'm town, that's why me being so low on that tier list was kind of interesting to me.

It feels like he knows I'm pretty heavily town read by a bunch of people in this game and feels like he needs to shade me to keep me out of the lock town pool, but doesn't feel like going after me right now because he knows it won't work, so he just subtly shades me by talking about how good my scum game is, but I don't see a lot of similarity in how he's approaching other slots who have a history of being very competent scum players, alisae and pooky spring to mind, here.

I guess I just get the impression that this whole progression is more motivated from where he wants me to end up in the consensus read list and not what he actually thinks in terms of what my actual alignment is, because I think its very possible to read my motivations even though I sometimes deliberately obfuscate my actions as town to be less readable in my scum games, and it doesn't really feel like he's trying to do that, instead he's just throwing his hands up and saying "welp, shea is unreadable! We need to wait for flips!" while putting me at the bottom of the read list and shading my by talking about how good my scum game is and how that means he cant even try to read my motivation yet.

In terms of wild tinfoil theories I haven't ruled out that pooky-shirou is all theatre either, but I'm gunna leave that one on the backburner for a while.

[Thestatusquo]

Think so, yeah.

[Thestatusquo]

Can't think of anyone saying I'm scum either.

[Thestatusquo]

Even norwee and alisae who I have spent the majority of the game heavily sussing think I'm town.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes. You were deep in a tunnel and your reasoning was hot garbage.

[Thestatusquo]

I see a lot of motivation from the scum side in how you're approaching my slot and I think town!you would have rolled up your sleeves and at least tried to get to more than just a handwavy "idk hes really good at scum!" by now.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but that didn't stop you from trying in the dance game. If anything that's kind of what I'm talking about. In the dance game there was an undercurrent of 'I really respect shea's scum game but I think he was scum here regardless.' and here its like you're using the same caution but you're using it as a shield rather than a caveat.

[Thestatusquo]

I need to reread your iso from the dance game IG.

I feel like you're approaching my slot incredibly differently but you seem to disagree.

pedit: see I would say d2 is pretty early.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you feel differently about the scum games of Alisae and Pooky than you do about mine?

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but that didn't stop you from trying in the dance game. If anything that's kind of what I'm talking about. In the dance game there was an undercurrent of 'I really respect shea's scum game but I think he was scum here regardless.' and here its like you're using the same caution but you're using it as a shield rather than a caveat.

it's been literally 3 IRL days with no flip since this game started and when i gave a read on your slot in the Dance Game i think not only it had been longer, we already had

two flips

. i did there what i'm telling that i will do here, analyze you after i've confirmed info about the gamestate.

i don't get what you expect from me about my read on you, i even attempted to say that if i was forced to choose what alignment i would lean you to, i would say town for the non insistence on a set of reads/pushes/etc.

then why are you making such a big deal about mentioning my scum game as much as possible and why am I at the very bottom of the bottom tier of your read list.

That doesn't seem like a spot you would actually put me if you thought I was null with a slight town lean.

[Thestatusquo]

*bottom of the second bottom tier.

[Thestatusquo]

Like my primary point is that your actions towards me don't match what you're saying ABOUT me.

I feel like you town read me when we talk, but you're constantly saying things that make it seem like you think the opposite is true.

And it feels like you're using this respect for my scum game as a shield to allow you to hedge like this because there's value in scum trying to keep me from being completely town read by the thread.

Even in this conversation you reacted to me by expressing surprise that I'm town read, but I would be surprised if you didn't have that read of the situation and wouldn't have that read of the situation in my shoes so it just seemed like a little bit more shade which was incongruous in a conversation where it again felt like you were talking to me like you thought I was town and trying to maneuver me into thinking you were being reasonable with your progression outside of that line.

[Thestatusquo]

Alright, through all of this, I think that the player who is the linchpin to all of this is NorwegianboyEE. Immediately after the challenge Cakez gains momentum, and Norwee says that he supposes Cakez is the best choice. He also talks about Pooky seeming town. Then the Pooky read degrades to "idk" with no explanation, and when flatout asked if Cakez is the best choice for today all of a sudden he could probably do Pooky instead and this time it's strong enough to vote for him. Even now, however, it's couched in empathy for Cakez and things like "I'd rather believe it's Pooky". This feels like it's setting up for a Pooky townflip, because when Norwee is wrong, well, it was an emotional call so we can't blame him, right?

Now let's move on to the argument between Shea and Alisae about whether scummy players should challenge each other or not. Shea is 100% in the right here. Giving the scum extra control of the elimination pool is bad. So that's some minor scumpoints for Alisae right there. However, in context Alisae is advocating for an elimination pool that makes it less likely Norwee gets eliminated. I don't like that at all and I think Alisae is somebody to keep an eye on.

As for the pool today, we aren't eliminating Gamma for a whole bunch of reasons. Pooky should also not happen; Pooky has been hella town and the current votes for him don't carry a lot of weight with me - Cakez doesn't have a lot of options, Norwee I think is scum, Enchant gave no reasoning, and furtive seems to be advocating it more for the associatives which honestly at this point I think we would get from Cakez too.

As Gamma pointed out, though, somebody (well, multiple somebodies) are about to get enough money to swap one of the teams out. Let's do that and put the Wolf Pack in there.

Reads list:
Town: Pooky, Shea, Gamma, Enchant
Neutral but positive vibes: Fen
Minimal impression on me: T-Bone, PenguinPower, furtive, Titus
Neutral but negative vibes: Cakez
Scum: Norwee, Alisae, Shirou

Why is there no discussion of shirou in this?

Why are you just handwaving your gamma read? Can you show your work?

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like theres a snark in that post which is completely absent from your interaction with me here fwiw.

I'm gunna drop from the thread for a while and watch football but thanks for the real timing on this.

[Thestatusquo]

what do you think it means if haschel said something, or if he didn't say something?

I guess i feel it's a bit scummy if he is just gonna come in after a long period of inactivity with a long wall before leaving again. But it would make more sense to me if he had an progression or something in PT before doing it.

Have you played with HC before? I wouldn't read anything into his activity. He just doesnt post very much. That's certainly not alignment indicative.

[Thestatusquo]

Team Johnson's
Team Holmes under the Hammer
Team Board of Mis-directors
Team Not Cheaters
Team Hyperpost Meta
Team The Wolf Pack
Team Single Braincell

[Thestatusquo]

I think I've been extremely open about what HC is saying to me and how I have felt about him at various points during the game, I suggest you try reading that.

[Thestatusquo]

I think I've been extremely open about what HC is saying to me and how I have felt about him at various points during the game, I suggest you try reading that.

Fine

You do know this game is massive though

You said town and that he doesn't need to post much to be town, is that representative?

Fine, I'll be non-snarky. Right now I think I am slightly scum leaning him but mostly null. I think HCs activity levels are going to be the same regardless of alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

YOUR DESCRIPTION

[Thestatusquo]

I think I've made my thoughts on alisae very clear.

[Thestatusquo]

I think I've made my thoughts on alisae very clear.

Yes I did know that

Well. Everyone's made their thoughts on everyone else extremely clear. Should we vote someone out? Nahhh. Just spam up the thread ad infinitum and eternally swap the teams of the challenges around while D1 exceeds 100 pages. Oh cool

What would you suggest I do?

[Thestatusquo]

sircakez did disappear again when the pressure kind of shifted over to pooky, thats kind of interesting.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont really want to push something because I don't like my options. If the vote is swapped somewhere I'm more enthusiastic about that would be a different story but I think its most likely that all of our options our town and I'm voting the one I guess has the most chance of being scum but I'm not super enthusiastic about it.

So like I get you're trying to express frustration right now and I feel that frustration too but fundamentally I don't understand what you want to happen so it kind of just feels like you're posting about it performatively because I honestly don't know what you want folks to do and you ain't really doing much yourself.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you think tbone is scum, furtive?

[Thestatusquo]

the funny thing is the more tbone posts here the less I feel like I want to be voting tbone and at that point I don't really want to be voting any of these 4 people.

this honestly blows.