Datisi's University [game over!]

[osuka]

VOTE: doctor drew
let’s get this thing started

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka
I wanted to vote Sail I like their name! I wish there was wind on the Styx..
It felt wrong to just vote someone with a fun name though?!? What if everyone did that? I've never been a trendsetter before, I don't think I could handle so much attention..

i’m convinced
VOTE: osuka

[osuka]

oh man come on, what the fuck? why are there 6 pages already?

[osuka]

so...

anyone have any guesses as to how the third party might work here?

this setup is probably deranged so my guess is it's at least a serial killer

[osuka]

Greetings, everyone, I'll be fully transparent with this:

I'm setting my studying to 0% today.

Call this anti-town as much as you wish, suspicious if you prefer. Fair. The scum points mechanic is powerful; I'm aware of the risks.

I've strong reasons for doing so. By D4, you'll know why.

I've ~reasons~. Trust my scumhunting skills.

??????????????

[osuka]

I think it is best to talk about mechanisms later in the week! Hopefully we will be friends then. Well, there are always grudges.. but many friends!

is there gonna be any meaningful content anytime soon or are you just gonna shitpost all game?

[osuka]

The post quoted and osuka response are the only things interesting i found on page 1. The first is performance by Dusa, the reaction by Osuka is also a bit odd in response to it. Its a joke response but also a poor joke response. Kind of want to lean scummy in the response but its closer to NAI. Just find it a bit awkward

VOTE: osuka
I wanted to vote Sail I like their name! I wish there was wind on the Styx..
It felt wrong to just vote someone with a fun name though?!? What if everyone did that? I've never been a trendsetter before, I don't think I could handle so much attention..

i’m convinced
VOTE: osuka

are we already quite that desperate? good lord

[osuka]

so...

anyone have any guesses as to how the third party might work here?

this setup is probably deranged so my guess is it's at least a serial killer

As a reformed (former) Datisi 3p enthusiast, I can chime in that I was a SK in the Cafe.

i mean dude let's be real, it's a datisi theme game. we're all fucked

[osuka]

i mean dude let's be real, it's a datisi theme game. we're all fucked

What do you mean by that?

the biggest word in that sentence is 6 letters

do you seriously need me to explain

[osuka]

i can get behind VOTE: dusa

[osuka]

hi folks sorry i havent had time to caught up. works been nuts

im gonna try to get to this tonight but i might have to hold that til tomorrow, but i dont work tomorrow so youll see me here by then at the latest

[osuka]

alright nerds, im back

gonna catch up

[osuka]

are we already quite that desperate? good lord

Are you saying im scum desperate or what?

not quite sure yet, but the post was somehow simultaneously noncommittal _and_ reachy, which i find to be particularly odd coming from someone who didn't join the site yesterday

[osuka]

on one hand, if you're scum you should know better. on the other, if you're town, why make that post at all?

[osuka]

oh man come on, what the fuck? why are there 6 pages already?

has there been a statistical analysis done on this kind of post

what does it say? that i'm a lazy fuck?

[osuka]

Right now though, don't love it.

"Don't love it" as in you think that Ranger is wrong town or Ranger is scum?

After seeing her do it in a previous version of this setup, I think it is just her fucking around and is NAI.

this post stands out to me the most, it gives me vibes of scum getting pressed on an early game throwaway comment and trying to handwave away a probing question

I might not be understanding some context though - did you actually play in the game where Ranger made the same opening post previously? And do you have any comment on Ranger's 171 to explain what you mean?

one other thought - I think scum are more likely to shade someone for fishing the way Drew did in 33. In general I don't think rolefishing is particularly AI - town are more uninformed than scum, only have the main thread to discuss/theorize about mech, and scum are also often too scared to do anything that might be perceived as rolefishing, like I doubt that a lot of players would be confident enough to post 30 as mafia. So I didn't find either of 30/31 suspicious and Drew's post feels like he's trying to leverage a convenient buzzword accusation as a means to fake scumhunt. I'd have been more likely to buy it as genuine if Drew had voted ina, but he didn't.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

with the caveat that i need to point out that i havent read a single post past this one in the thread - that's generally how i felt about drew initially before playing several games with him and just realizing that he's just like that regardless of alignment (as far as i can tell, anyway)

i'll keep this in mind and while i'd generally agree with it, in this particular instance i don't really and that's only because it's drew we're talking about. you get townpoints anyway though

[osuka]

@GuiltyLion nice to see you. Talk to me - I think you may be onto something. Also, I think ina and Dann are both Town. Could they have planned to probe each other “somewhat aggressively” to then clear each other and play together? Perhaps, but it’s not flowing that way, and Scum are not so subtle. So Town for me.

@osuka, I’m not seeing anything from you outside of complaining about the length of the game thus far. What are your instincts telling you?

hey andres! good to see you again my friend. it's been a long time

i hadn't had time to read a lot of the game until just now, work's been crazy. you're getting the osuka Thought Stream(tm) live right now, but my very first reaction to the thread was that dusa was being real weird

[osuka]

dann is screaming town as of the start of page 9

[osuka]

I really like Fire Assassin's 137

I had been getting similar vibes from Dusa's posts - I'm a bit torn on whether it's AI or whether it's just her character roleplay + general early game awkwardness, but the fact that FA directly called it out makes me feel good that he is town.

This strikes me as a strange post to highlight from FA’s ISO? I don’t necessarily disagree with the read but calling Dusa performative does not seem like a hard post to make

case in point: i initially chose not to call this out but this was my _exact_ reaction to that

[osuka]

I agree about the Titus offness

I thought she was a little... uncharitable? towards ina

which makes the absence of a vote weirder

ah it's only day 1 so titus can't ~really flex~ until there's a flip

[osuka]

that's not true but i felt like i had to be facetious

i think throwing your vote around early game is kinda useless

[osuka]

ranger do you have a hipfire reads list yet

Haven't actually read anything yet, I'm mid-date rn. I wasn't planning to be here seriously until 6-24 hours from now; when I saw discussion headed in an uncomfortable direction, I felt a need to clarify immediately and not let it continue. You'll see me in earnest later.

Is the 6-24 dependent upon the success of the date?

this is why i love playing with andres, he always asks the real questions

[osuka]

I'd kinda like some explanations from the dusa voters

i can get behind VOTE: dusa

and this one especially stood out - I don't really think anyone else gave much of a reason for Dusa

what exactly can you get behind here?

ah dude i dont know, the slot's done literally fuck all the entire time and i felt like a little pressure could've helped

i shouldve known better, that did fucking nothing

[osuka]

like i still havent seen dusa do shit and somehow people are ok with that so far? posting air is different than not posting and then catching up, which as an adult working full-time i can understand. what i can't understand is coming into the thread, writing some bullshit without any sort of substance, then running away and repeating that dance every couple hours

[osuka]

of course as soon as i say that i get to 216-220. your sins are forgiven for the time being

[osuka]

Oh Titus is the one who agreed with me about Aristeia isn't she? I will probably pick one of the two to like. Whichever one can teach me hairstyles!

Just shave it off, best choice I ever made.

can we get a reads list from our bald king? im curious to see where your hairless head's at

[osuka]

note to self: 227-229 is noteworthy

come back later

[osuka]

I agree about the Titus offness

I thought she was a little... uncharitable? towards ina

which makes the absence of a vote weirder

I am uncharitable towards bad play. My goal however is to find the cause and determine alignment. People make mistakes. It doesn't make them scum. I feel like someone is trying to provoke a T v T. I'm not sure which.

Given the same people want Drew, I'm inclined not to despite it getting out of RVS.

if that's bad play all of my play is bad; not sure why you have the expectation that i am 'smart' et cetera

like i really don't see how anything i've done would be classified as a mistake maybe you disagree on approach but there's no like, objective way to analyse that

Strong disagree. I have determined role fishing is wrong unless info suggests otherwise. That's an objective correct play and I'm not arguing it.

come on, now you just sound like me here

[osuka]

Thoughts on GL, Andres and Drew?

idk guiltylion and andresvmb thoughts seem mostly reasonable and interactions feel fine if a little, like, intended to happen maybe

but that can just as easily be explained by familiarity with other players as anything else

and doctor drew feels maybe less angled here than in my experience but that experience is limited

why those three?

Angled? Can you explain? Everyone has an agenda. It's about solving what it is. For instance, I liked your lack of defensiveness and not mech talking. Not sure I follow this completely but I feel it's honest.

GuiltyLion and Andres seem pretty close but I know we need some people working together to get the game going. They want Drew and I don't get why.

drew is vote bait

[osuka]

Ranger is calculating. If Ranger's scum, I expect to find it later on in her tierlists or other strategic moves. On the spectrum of strategy v gut, we tend to be on the far end of strategy. Everything Ranger does, regardless of alignment is calculated towards her goal. Ranger would almost never make a plot before seeing her role pm. Blue is wrong here. I don't believe it's nefarious though.

noted

[osuka]

page 13 votecount makes me think i'll repeat a mistake ive made and defend drew because i think he's town or the case on him isn't good enough, then i'll get myself executed because of it

oh well

[osuka]

but then again im used to smaller games so 4 votes really isnt that much here i suppose

[osuka]

BROTHER how on EARTH are there FIVE NEW PAGES in the time it took me to read the thread

what the fuck you guys

[osuka]

noting that ranger's readlists are fucking useless right now on a page-by-page basis without any sort of detail. i dont like that for several reasons:
- it doesn't help propel the game forward because there's nothing to respond to if you disagree
- if you disagree and probe, there is ample opportunity to Make Shit Up(tm) so as to seem reasonable or town-minded
- if you agree, you're just filling in the details with your own thoughts to bolster said agreement

VOTE: ranger

[osuka]

never mind; your sins are forgiven as of 329.

why are you so confident aristeia flips red?

[osuka]

UNVOTE:

[osuka]

I'd like a Dusa

Aristeia, please elaborate on your drew read

I could go for a Dusa read too

I think Osuka/Dusa interactions are pretty one-directional in a kinda unnatural way and there's something to unpack there but I would rather discuss it with one or both of them directly

so why didn't you ask either of us about it

[osuka]

What was persuasive about that post to you?

I was already scumreading/voting Dusa so him calling her out for being performative is +town.

this is very very odd. hilariously naive post from a player i know for a fact knows better than to try and play the game this way

[osuka]

he feels pretty townie and enthuiastic

he could also just be really happy that im here

i do that to people

[osuka]

oh well dusa is back to posting air

it was nice while it lasted

[osuka]

im not quite sure what's going on with aristeia just yet. i'll watch for a bit longer and see what comes out of it

[osuka]

hi folks apology for the shameless prodge but i got a bit sick it seems so i just vegetated today and i need some rest but i’ll be back tomorrow

put in one question of your choosing and i’ll give you my top of mind on it before i catch up (i’ve read so far as my last post before this - so that’s the game state in my head)

[osuka]

also I don't especially scumread Andres but the townreads on him feel a little too easy at this stage in the game, last time I played with him he was bleeding obvtown and he hasn't hit those notes for me personally yet

every time that i can recall playing with andres he was almost universally townread/townleaned this early in the game

hes got a very townie entrance for whatever reason, so i know better than to just go off of that with that particular slot

[osuka]

Does it feel that way? I've not even called you scum yet and everyone else on Drew's wagon is varying levels of probably town

well you're basically implying its scummy to vote drew? that feels like you are trying to keep people from voting him?

this is the first interaction in the game that actually has me furrowing my eyebrows in response

really fucking weird here ari

[osuka]

i gotta say as of the end of page 19 jjh is sort of screaming town

[osuka]

GL also feels town but i'm a lot more wary of him because i know that fucking guy will be the most obvtown red flip of any game on this goddamn website

[osuka]

I'm gonna vote osuka. Their posting has had a strange charisma/energy that feels like it could be put on.

And with 402, it looks quite uncharitable to me about Dusa, who has actually given a lot of reads and comments about other players, if you look past the gimmick.

VOTE: osuka

on the one hand, i'm fairly confident we've played before. on the other, i'm also fairly high - so you get the benefit of the doubt.

i'm a charismatic fucker, what can i say? i rolled the nat 20 when i got my role pm

[osuka]

and with the other half of that then i guess just to complete the set: i hate gimmicks and i'm not charitable

good now that we got all of that out of the way then

[osuka]

alot of this thi

I'm gonna vote osuka. Their posting has had a strange charisma/energy that feels like it could be put on.

why is this scum indicative tho? like sure i'll agree that to some extent it is probably put on

but why does that seem more likely to come from a scums to you?

I usually associate people writing in a performative way with scum, because that seems to be the pattern. Unless it's an obvious gimmick, like Dusa is doing, I expect town players to post fairly naturally.

usually i just let these conversations run but in the interest of putting this to bed, since it's not gonna get anyone anywhere, here it is

this isn't a ploy or an act or whatever the fuck else you wanna call it, this is just what the fuck my brain sounds like in real life (yeah sucks to suck, i know, whatever). i sound like this in writing because i sound like this in _thinking_, so if you have qualms with it then i guess get them out of the way and let us all talk about something that actually matters

[osuka]

I don’t hate an osuka wagon

like for example this here

this is a weird post for a player that at this point, hadn't mentioned me, hadn't interacted with me, and generally fell into a really "mediator-ey" vibe that felt like they were trying really hard not to piss anyone off and just be sort of vaguely involved with what was going on in the game, while somehow avoiding to provide any sort of real meaty content themselves

[osuka]

@drew, what's going on in your head

what are your most conviction-y reads? why are you still sitting on your rvs vote?

aristeia can certainly fake a town thought process and believable reads

is your issue jjh that she hasn’t explained them enough, or that her explanations are just bad

why is drew town furtive

this is what i'm talking about by the way. don't have to try hard to find those in that iso

[osuka]

I found osuka’s treatment of Dusa kind of… uncharitable (hehe) in a way I wouldn’t expect coming from someone approaching the game with a curious mind. Ie: it didn’t seem like osuka tried to figure out Dusa that hard and instead sees an easy target

I’m also have just felt that osuka’s thought streamy catch up posts are very easy for scum to fake, and i haven’t seen anything outside of that mode yet

394 pinged me because it’s just “oh! Here are some thoughts I’ve had in the past” without really saying anything substantial

A lot of osuka’s posts seem to be in that mode of “let me commentate or say what my reaction was” which is like the easiest form of content to make

now this could be because osuka hasn’t had enough time yet to get caught up and fully invested in the game yet, but i still feel like osuka would tend more towards direct engagement rather than the distant though stream mode as town

The thought stream mode seems LAMIST in itself if that makes sense

do i have to explain why this is dumb or will someone else do it for me?

[osuka]

A lot of osuka’s posts seem to be in that mode of “let me commentate or say what my reaction was” which is like the easiest form of content to make

now this could be because osuka hasn’t had enough time yet to get caught up and fully invested in the game yet, but i still feel like osuka would tend more towards direct engagement rather than the distant though stream mode as town

The thought stream mode seems LAMIST in itself if that makes sense

the (admittedly weak) thing that struck me as townie in osuka's posts was the 416 to 418 progression - it's not impossible to fake as scum but I think it's less likely for scum players to do that kind of reversal (case + vote, realize later posts resolve something you didn't like, unvote) because it just comes across sloppy. I can imagine it if scum!osuka is just trying to play how he thinks he would as town, but usually I give that stuff some amount of towncred, kinda similar to Dusa's double post towntell she mentioned earlier. When I play scum I try to be mostly caught up before I do anything and that makes me more likely to stick to planned trajectories rather than make a show of vote+case, unvote

idk I want more from osuka, wouldn't really strongly object to a wagon as it stands, just wanted to share this take. and furtive's overall push+reasoning feels genuine to me so that's good

taking note of this for myself, come back later

[osuka]

to be completely clear: i am swamped at work because this game started at an unlucky time but i should have better time after this week or so (as i did when i first signed up)

i'm constantly in catch-up mode in here because i'm in catch-up mode like everywhere in life

[osuka]

i think a jjh!scum world makes most sense with drew!town being an "easy miselim" that jjh wants to build town cred off of

very good take

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

i genuinely cant blame you for this one, i probably wouldve done the same to a prodge like that

but pro tip: leave a question or snarky remark attached to it so that you can actually elicit a response in the face of such a strongly justified vote

[osuka]

was anyone actually ok with dann openly wagon shopping for 5 pages straight? let's find out in the next votecount! in the meantime, VOTE: dannflor

you want a wagon? let's get a wagon

[osuka]

Drew's posting as of late has felt fairly agendaless and pure as well but until he actually sinks his teeth into a scumread or putting pressure somewhere I don't think I'll be able to feel comfortable seeing him as town. I didn't like that he volunteered himself as a sheep and yet still has made no real effort to help build a wagon. but on the other hand I have been thinking that he's been signaling suspicion of jjh which is a weird thing to do as mafia if town!jjh has been one of the main people trying to steer attention towards somebody else

I think this is a pretty good summary of where I'm at, I don't really feel *mafia* pings anymore

I wouldn't stake my life on it but I'm comfortable kickstarting some other wagons

the Dann townread feels like a read for the sake of a read

to be honest I'm feeling that with a number of the town reads on me this game and it's making me paranoid

I thought Sail's might be scummy because he went in depth on a town read when a number of people had already expressed one on me (something something it's easier to fake analysis when you know a bunch of people already agree with you)

but like so many other slots have done a similar thing since then I'm not even sure that it's scum indicative for Sail

I give minor town points to RCE just for going against the grain a little

like look at this sequence. "oh well whatever let's just start a wagon, i don't really care who it is", then straight into "yeah actually i have townreads but theyre really making me paranoid so id be down to flip them because now it's justified"

and then a hard, hard left into sail, which at that point was a slot that had fallen off the face of the fucking planet

[osuka]

like ???????????????

[osuka]

and THEN sail comes in 15 posts later? get the fuck out of here. that timing isn't right to me

[osuka]

You're all mistaking a low-content slot as being scum. Now the complete irony is that you're now all claiming he is town which is my exact conclusion. Although for an different reason: (The logic: I am scum, so me protecting them is TMI that shows it is an town slot and i flundered the protection)
The problem with this logic is that Wheme objectively is more likely town here. Their posts are good content because it shows genuine thought and it's given out at points in the game to show that they are thinking. Their tone is not faked, it is not a slot that is struggling to post. Ask yourself, if they truly were scum. Why would they leave out so much information that they clearly had in the back of their head when they made their posts? They aren't trying to over-explain to look townie, they are simply posting an condensed version of their thoughts. Which is an natural impulse that is harder for scum to do.

very good very good

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

VCA ftw.

I'll catch up tomorrow but I want to vote here for reactions, particularly one person's but I bet they know who they are.

setting aside the fact that a 5-vc d1 vca is too much conjecture, even for me: your vca is wrong

[osuka]

if nobody talks to me at the time i am actually free of work then i cant be blamed for not making myself available to talk to people in real-time

so if any of you who had a problem with my fucking catch-ups or whatever don't get in here momentarily and come talk to me, i won't have the chance to explain why you're all catastrophically wrong about everything you think you know about my slot, so you forfeit any right to complain about my activity this game

[osuka]

Does it feel that way? I've not even called you scum yet and everyone else on Drew's wagon is varying levels of probably town

well you're basically implying its scummy to vote drew? that feels like you are trying to keep people from voting him?

this is the first interaction in the game that actually has me furrowing my eyebrows in response

really fucking weird here ari

Lots of people do tell me I'm weird but I don't really care because if I'm not me I might as well not exist

that's a lovely response in regards to your personality, i love that

that's a terrible response in regards to the game though

[osuka]

if nobody talks to me at the time i am actually free of work then i cant be blamed for not making myself available to talk to people in real-time

so if any of you who had a problem with my fucking catch-ups or whatever don't get in here momentarily and come talk to me, i won't have the chance to explain why you're all catastrophically wrong about everything you think you know about my slot, so you forfeit any right to complain about my activity this game

I retain the right to complain.

How about you explain ur issue with the timing of Sail vote hoping onto u? Are you saying Dann and Sail are coordinating against you for some reason?

dude one of us horribly misunderstood what was said and i sure as fuck hope it was you because i wrote all of it

[osuka]

i never said my opinion on sail to the best of my recollection. it was dannflor's progression that eventually led to sail somehow getting caught in the crossfire despite not having been mentioned by any party in that conversation

[osuka]

sail coming in 15 posts later is either hilarious coincidence or scum theater, but i'm not going to assume scum theater because thats a stupid leap to make this early

[osuka]

I don't see anything wrong with Dannflor progression on you, but im biased because I think you been extremely underwhelming and would also vote you if I didn't have a bigger scumread of jjh

i mean theres a difference between being underwhelmed and actually having any reason to vote a slot, no?

dann's problem was "my catch ups are scummy", which is a horseshit reason to push someone because it's nothing that i can actually respond to beyond saying my piece, which you will have to take at face value. there's no way to defend against or disprove it, and he's offered literally nothing of substance other than that

[osuka]

no his issue was that you seem to be always stuck in catchup mode which is really easy to fake for mafia

isn't that exactly what the fuck i just said

[osuka]

I don't see anything wrong with Dannflor progression on you, but im biased because I think you been extremely underwhelming and would also vote you if I didn't have a bigger scumread of jjh

i mean theres a difference between being underwhelmed and actually having any reason to vote a slot, no?

dann's problem was "my catch ups are scummy", which is a horseshit reason to push someone because it's nothing that i can actually respond to beyond saying my piece, which you will have to take at face value. there's no way to defend against or disprove it, and he's offered literally nothing of substance other than that

I would vote someone who i thought was underwhelming if I have no other places to place my vote. I think you would too, so I don't know what your point is.

Up until 5 minutes ago before you started voting dann, I didn't see anything you have done that was townie and you pushing Dusa aligned pretty well with my theory of scum going for the bait. I think ari had it more right on what dann was thinking with you than my thoughts though.

I think your recent posts and complaining about dannflor push is ironically most townie thing you have done even if I think you are way of base.

is there a question or prompt in here for me?

[osuka]

no it is not

okay then please tell me what it is i said, i'd love to have that explained to me

[osuka]

I actually have a different theory right now.
Osuka have you actually caught up and read the thread?

yes

[osuka]

I actually have a different theory right now.
Osuka have you actually caught up and read the thread?

yes

Hmhmhmmm
Theory was you didn't read and were pushing dannflor to re-engage yourself into the game.

Okay follow up: How confident are you on Dannflor is scum pushing you? 1-10 scale is fine.

how confident am i that he's scum, or that he's pushing me specifically? i'd give it a 7/10 that he flips red right now

i don't think he's looking to push me specifically, it just felt like Whatever The Fuck You Could Get Away With(tm)

[osuka]

@Aristeia What is your opinion on jjh switch on you?

I am trying to digest your KKFC read, and I don't agree on how the catchup was busy work to justify a vote. It seems like a lot of different thoughts on different posts, which parts look "busywork", and even some of his thoughts on you I can see where coming from.

it felt like busy work because i dont see how he expects to get answers to his questions when they are not even to the people he is supposedly asking them to.

I don't think he wrote those questions with the expectation of getting answers. They are notes for himself that he is sharing and letting others comment on is what I saw. What about jjh flip read on you?

what do you mean by "what about jjg flip read on you"? i'm having a lot of trouble parsing that

[osuka]

oh never mind that makes sense with the next post then

[osuka]

I actually have a different theory right now.
Osuka have you actually caught up and read the thread?

yes

Hmhmhmmm
Theory was you didn't read and were pushing dannflor to re-engage yourself into the game.

Okay follow up: How confident are you on Dannflor is scum pushing you? 1-10 scale is fine.

how confident am i that he's scum, or that he's pushing me specifically? i'd give it a 7/10 that he flips red right now

i don't think he's looking to push me specifically, it just felt like Whatever The Fuck You Could Get Away With(tm)

Last post of the night before I go sleep:
A large part of me doesn't believe you believe that strongly in this push. It seems overblown and some of your reactions right now also feel exaggerated to a degree.
I believe you had this same thought about me questioning your self vote. Or it was very similar to the point that at least your consistent on your reaction to votes on you with what looks like weak reasoning.

So do you think your easy target for scum to put pressure on? that scum think in general they can get away with voting you in general.

not in general no, and i can defend myself competently but i have been an easy target so far by virtue of just not being here

can we stop pretending like we're not on the same page and go on with this already? it's almost like you came into this with the intention of steering it a certain way

[osuka]

im very busy at work and i have to put out several fires today so you probably wont see me for a while, but danns reaction is sort of surprisingly reasonable and level-headed in the face of an osuka rant

[osuka]

osuka, it feels like you're treating me in the same way you approached Dusa. It's not just that you seem uncharitable. It feels like you are skimming the game, latched onto a viewpoint of my slot that was convenient for you, and then just read everything through that lens. Like, I don't think Dusa is a fluffy poster this game if you actually read her posts with a curious mind. I'm not really sure where you get the vibe that I'm "trying really hard not to piss anyone off." The posts you quote in 787 are me trying to put pressure on people to put content into the game, primarily people I'm scum reading.

this is a weird post for a player that at this point, hadn't mentioned me, hadn't interacted with me

I also find it hard to believe that you actually think this is weird, or that my scum read on you is weird? Why is it weird for me to scum read you without mentioning you or interacting with you?

Like, I think if there is an honest attempt to place yourself in my shoes you would at least see where I'm coming from.

What I have wanted for you is for you to engage in the game in a real way - to actually push something or bite your teeth into something other than just commentating on past game events. That is why I voted you - I didn't vote you for the prodge. I don't know why you're implying my vote wasn't justified, I think it's pretty clear why I wanted to put pressure on you.

was anyone actually ok with dann openly wagon shopping for 5 pages straight? let's find out in the next votecount! in the meantime, VOTE: dannflor

you want a wagon? let's get a wagon

I will openly admit to wagon shopping. I want some fucking wagons. Why does that make me scum

I don't even understand what you see in 794. what exactly is the inconsistency or the point that is scummy to you?

Aristeia said it - but I'll say it again: my problem is not that you were catching up or just that your catch ups are scummy. I get not everyone's time zones line up to interact with people live, that's not what I'm asking for. but I want you to engage with something that is happening presently in the game, or even just do something based off your catchup that will have ramifications NOW. pushing me actually fits that criteria!

if nobody talks to me at the time i am actually free of work then i cant be blamed for not making myself available to talk to people in real-time

so if any of you who had a problem with my fucking catch-ups or whatever don't get in here momentarily and come talk to me, i won't have the chance to explain why you're all catastrophically wrong about everything you think you know about my slot, so you forfeit any right to complain about my activity this game

it feels like your aggressiveness here is not real. your wagon is like 3 votes. I'm one of the only people to even express a hard scum read on you. "i won't have the chance to explain why you're all catastrophically wrong" - who is this even to?

and again, not talking in real time to people wasn't the problem I had with with your slot!

if you're town, I don't know how you expect people to understand where you're coming from when your reactions are this outsized compared to what is actually happening in the game and you don't seem genuinely interested in determining my alignment

first of all you're way too reasonable. this is strange - i do generally expect that sort of noncommittal behavior over a long period of time to come from scum much more often than town. scum are afraid to commit where it might look bad for them in the future, whereas townies can't possibly ever be in that position because that requires 1. information and 2. playing against wincon

the problem i had with that sequence was: openly wagon shopping, which in a vacuum isn't all that odd. but, when followed by

the Dann townread feels like a read for the sake of a read

to be honest I'm feeling that with a number of the town reads on me this game and it's making me paranoid

then my immediate reaction is to think that you're only writing that so that you can get away with pivoting to wagon a slot that you hadn't considered or put somewhere above average in a reads list. this opens up opportunities where you have plausible deniability as far as demonstrating a natural-ish thought process goes - but importantly it does little to nothing if you're town, so that's not a comment that comes from a green flip very often. then, this:

I thought Sail's might be scummy because he went in depth on a town read when a number of people had already expressed one on me (something something it's easier to fake analysis when you know a bunch of people already agree with you)

but like so many other slots have done a similar thing since then I'm not even sure that it's scum indicative for Sail

I give minor town points to RCE just for going against the grain a little

I really like how Dannflor tried to sort ina in 72, and then his progression to 78. 72 had an underlying thought process which I don’t think scum would bother to fake this early. In 78 I can’t think of any scum motivation for Dannflor to try and drop the conversation, other than mech of course.

like idk this read on me felt circular in a way that rubbed me the wrong way but maybe I'm just being oversensitive to the reads on me right now

like, fucking hello???? you come out of _nowhere_ in QUICK succession (<2 minutes) to talk shit about a slot that hadn't posted in nearly 10 pages and had nothing to do with the conversation at hand, and

then

you quote a post from what effectively amounts to a decade ago. am i seriously expected to ignore that?

[osuka]

like you 100% had that prepared, right?

[osuka]

can we stop pretending like we're not on the same page and go on with this already? it's almost like you came into this with the intention of steering it a certain way

What are you talking about here?
I think our first interaction in this game you called me a fence sitting and scummy and you said it while fence sitting a position on me. Yet you do this again. I am clearly on the scum side of where I am leaning on you, I am not hiding the ball here where my position is. I asked you questions specifically to see if your head was at where I was thinking it could be if you were town.

You failed every question so far, I wasn't leading you in any direction other than seeing if your answers made sense in townmindset for you to be reacting/thinking in certain ways.

You not reading/skimming I was willing to let slide as you pushing dannflor as a way to force yourself in engaging in the game.
You claiming to be more certain than I think you should be. (arguably 7/10 isn't like amazing confidence), tells me over inflated sense of confidence for little substance. Which is fine if you think the idea that scum are more likely to push you as your some magnet, which you don't with the caveat you are easy to push since you haven't been present.

So that leaves me thinking you are just scum who is disengaged, trying to pick fights to look town, and over-reacting to anyone pushing you.

If you think i am scum for saying any of this or having this read, would like to hear why and not another fence sitting post by you.

i never said you're scum, i only said you're wrong. learn the difference

my interaction with dannflor did rub me off extremely wrong and i've ignored a _very_ similar situation in the past where that slot ended up not only being red, but almost carrying the entire game. i'm watching that slot and i don't claim to have a god solve but i do think that flips red

[osuka]

OK PPL WHO POSTED IM SERIOUS BOUT RANGER SLIP DO U GUYS NOT SEE IT OR DO I GOTTA POINT IT OUT

i dont see it, please point it out for the idiots in the room (me + whoever else thinks this refers to them)

[osuka]

VOTE: Osuka

piss poor

how am i supposed to respond to an empty vote from a slot that’s done fuck all since page 20 with anything other than contempt?

[osuka]

good morning to everyone though

[osuka]

VOTE: Osuka

piss poor

how am i supposed to respond to an empty vote from a slot that’s done fuck all since page 20 with anything other than contempt?

Call me scum or something. Ask a general question, idk get creative.

okay i’ll help you do your job

why the vote?

[osuka]

sorry guys, not feeling very well at the moment. current plan is to be back in an hour or two

[osuka]

alright nerds ive returned

prepare yourselves

[osuka]

VOTE: Osuka

piss poor

how am i supposed to respond to an empty vote from a slot that’s done fuck all since page 20 with anything other than contempt?

Call me scum or something. Ask a general question, idk get creative.

okay i’ll help you do your job

why the vote?

It’s not my job to sort me.

I think your counterwagon is a townie, I’m iffy on its composition. I’m not wowed by yours either but I don’t townread you and I’m interested in seeing where it goes.

no, it isn't your job to sort yourself. that would be stupid. instead, if you're scum then your job is to mislead town into misvoting. if you're town, your job is to root out scum. either way, an empty vote from a slot that's done fuck all for 10 pages does neither, so regardless of your alignment or how you put it - you're not really doing your job anyway, so it doesn't quite matter what it is

[osuka]

as of page 40 ina is sort of screaming town to me, even taking into account the fact that i'm inclined to agree because she's sort of defending me in a way? jjh doesn't look bad coming out of that though i think, it could be tvt

[osuka]

Osuka definitely became more likely to be town in my estimation following the catchup but is still one of my most unclear slots overall that happens to fall at the bottom end of my reads

This is loosely my take. osuka's catchup increased the odds he's town, yet he's among the slots I've the least clear feelings on, which places him near the bottom of mine.

unclear = scum?

i just wanna make sure i got this one right

[osuka]

I agree that those are fullblooded godly behavior, but I think it's mimicry!
What gives me this feeling is how osuka treats it as so, so exciting. I think his acting gets the sizing wrong!

Sometimes I try to throw my voice and make people think a full-bodied gorgon is in the room so they will go away, I always get the sizing wrong..

VOTE: osuka

this is cool - either i've successfully deciphered the message behind the gimmick and this is a stupid take, or i've failed to decipher the gimmick and so to make your point known you have to drop the gimmick

so really either way i think i win here

[osuka]

first of all you're way too reasonable. this is strange - i do generally expect that sort of noncommittal behavior over a long period of time to come from scum much more often than town. scum are afraid to commit where it might look bad for them in the future, whereas townies can't possibly ever be in that position because that requires 1. information and 2. playing against wincon

I'm not following how reasonableness connects to the rest of this. If you're saying I'm afraid to commit, point out where I've been noncommittal

reasonable is a personality trait

like, fucking hello???? you come out of _nowhere_ in QUICK succession (<2 minutes) to talk shit about a slot that hadn't posted in nearly 10 pages and had nothing to do with the conversation at hand, and then you quote a post from what effectively amounts to a decade ago. am i seriously expected to ignore that?

this is just literally how my brain works

I don't understand *why* you think I would have this prepared as scum, *why* would I suddenly go after Sail at this point as scum?

i posted that because Sail and their town read on me had been lingering in the back of my mind for a long time, I'm not sure what exactly reminded of it or if I was just browsing through ISOs in a 2nd tab but it felt like something I wanted to vocalize

again, not sure what you think the grand plan here is supposed to be or how it connects to wagon shopping, especially considering I went back on that point like a few posts later

I don't really believe you think this is scummy

i pointed out where you've been noncommittal, but that's not what the reasonableness comment was about. it was more the levelheadedness of your response that threw me off.

my brain also works in funny ways but even for me that's way too weird of a time to bring up sail. the weirdest thing about it isn't even what you had to say or that it was negative at all, it was just the timing. why would sail even come up in the course of conversation at that point in time?

[osuka]

im very very scared of norwe trying to pocket me here, although i'm really not sure whether that's what's happening or not

[osuka]

im very busy at work and i have to put out several fires today so you probably wont see me for a while, but danns reaction is sort of surprisingly reasonable and level-headed in the face of an osuka rant

GL what do you think about this post

it strikes me as like, cognitively inconsistent that osuka pops in to be like "oh you're so reasonable" in a tone that makes me think he is rethinking his read, and then doubles down with "actually you're too reasonable"

i really did just mean that's not what i expected. it gets you some towncred but i do think your posting history is still fairly weird overall

[osuka]

I basically felt like most your posts in this game was unparseable to me.

if ever struggling to parse can always ask very common for me to have to rephrase both in mafia and life

making things more easily understandable to others is why i've adapted the line breaks and relying on the word 'like' so heavily and such but still i know clarity not a strength of mine

this + 1069 that everyone keeps talking about only made sense to me because i'm high

pretty fucking weird if you ask me

[osuka]

Ftr osuka isn’t my first choice, I’d rather be on Furtive. But osuka wagon had meat at least.

getting cold feet?

[osuka]

idk the timing of osuka wagon gaining steam after the Sail CW formed is giving me heebie jeebies

I'm also a little bit expecting scum to be bussing osuka here

I don't feel osuka is playing for long term survival here what with his content hard focusing on me of all slots

okay first of all i haven't been hard focusing you and second of all, you should know a lot better than to think scum just hardbusses like this on day 1 if i'm faced with this situation

it's EXACTLY this sort of shit that further convinces me of a scumread on you, just when i'm starting to warm up to you

[osuka]

I'd explain why, but i already went into it earlier so i'd just be repeating myself.
They are abrasive, not easy to understand but doesn't make them scum yada yada.

The abrasiveness isn't the problem. As I think I stated or should reinforce if Im not making myself clear, the abrasiveness seems performative rather than genuine. Abrasive != Scum. If you think this is normal behavior I would say this looks like trying to replicate normal behavior. I have many more things I can say about osuka but i want to focus on other slots for a bit and give him time to clear up any miscommunications or his thoughts on other players.

if he is scum i want him to give opinions on way more slots than he has given now and want harder stances than he has given in regards to myself and anyone who is pushing him as scum.

i believe i've already given my opinion on you but here goes: your pushes this entire time, not just on myself, have been nothing but air and i think you're trying to fluff content into existence where there is none. you're trying too hard to read into bullshit that doesn't matter, just to make it seem like a natural thought process and get your ass off the line.

getting close?

[osuka]

I would be shocked if scum:
GuiltyLion

I would be surprised:
Dannflor, Ina, FA, BlueSnakelet

Could be scum:
Drew, Ranger, Titus, Whemestar, JJH, Dusa

Wouldn't be surprised:
Andres, RC, Sail, Aristeia, Norwee, KKFC

Would be surprised if town:
Osuka

prepare yourself for a surprise!

[osuka]

I am getting the osuka vibes I know......and love??

aw thanks

[osuka]

Ranger this game is either a scum with convenient reads or a town with very wrong reads.

Yes i am using this format to make fun of Rangers favourite post to quote about me.

You're doing a bad job, as 'making fun of' a post requires a sense of humor you lack.

Whatever you are trying to do here. You should stop.

Why try when you can succeed? I like to snark. When people engage with me and do so poorly, they leave themselves wide open to mine. As far as I know, snarking is not against the rules. If it makes a player uncomfortable, I'll tone it down on their request; as I've not received such a request yet, I'll let loose.

You’re doing either a wonderful cosplay of comedy or a terrible cosplay of snark, I’ll say.

sting!

[osuka]

I’m still on the osuka town side of the fence

I have thoughts on posts but will post when I’m not driving/working

dont post and drive or the sheriff is gonna get ya

[osuka]

VOTE: andres

i kinda wanna do this

ew no why

[osuka]

Also if Osuka is mafia it means they decided to not join any bigger or consensus wagons/scumreads by going on a tangent towards Dannflor that will never get any support.
This has two explanations.
Either Osuka really does believe in their read and doesn’t care how much support their push get’s or is likely to get. (Extremely town indicative)
Or Osuka did it because they expected to get townread and are mafia

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Occam’s razor?

Osuka is just town here, and scum are supporting this wagon.

Option c, Osuka is caught and denying post flip associations.

daoeurghaoiweurgfbalcjnbvalkwj34ha;3wjrnadaoi3w3u4oktmghfxgdhjdr57ukl,hlhbjlbjklj

[osuka]

hahahahah what the fuck titus seriously i cant deal with that shit right now

[osuka]

im very busy at work and i have to put out several fires today so you probably wont see me for a while, but danns reaction is sort of surprisingly reasonable and level-headed in the face of an osuka rant

GL what do you think about this post

it strikes me as like, cognitively inconsistent that osuka pops in to be like "oh you're so reasonable" in a tone that makes me think he is rethinking his read, and then doubles down with "actually you're too reasonable"

yeah I see what you're saying and you may be onto something here

there's possibly a world where osuka sees things like being "reasonable" and "level-headed" as scum behaviors rather than town ones, and so this post and tone is meant to be read like your reaction is

more

scummy, not less, but the "sort of" qualifier generally points away from that interpretation I think

at the same time I still vibe with the Norwee point about how this Dann tunnel doesn't serve him at all if he's scum and if he knows it's bullshit, and if he's scum and was originally thinking about backing down in 889 then why telegraph that before changing his mind and continuing to double down? The gamestate didn't change substantially between 889 and 922 so why would he start down a 'back down' path and then re-escalate again on the next page?

ive explained this elsewhere in this catch up, go read it and let me know if that actually addresses your concern. if not i can elaborate further

[osuka]

VOTE: RCE

i can get behind this
VOTE: rce

[osuka]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

you can't read me

and even if you could you would've gotten it wrong

[osuka]

i do really really like guiltylion's points on sail but i wanna take more time to think about that one. i know it sounds stupid coming from me since that wagon almost looks like a scum counterwagon to save osuka, but there's still something off about how that wagon came to be in the first place i think. i wanna ponder it a little longer

[osuka]

But, I fear you aren't giving credence to an 'active scum' here......and also hunting lurkers is an easy crutch for scum to fall back on when a mis lim happens 'oops, I mean what were they contributing anyways, amirite?'

sure, these are both valid points. I would reiterate this is my early game / D1 approach more than my overall philosophy - it's certainly possible we have an 'active' scum deepwolfing and influencing things right now, I just don't have any proven reliable or easy ways to catch such a scum on D1. and the consequences if you get it wrong (limming / minimizing a strong vocal town player) are far worse than if you get it wrong on a lurky disengaged townie.

You're also right that this is an easy crutch for scum to fall back on, that's why we should start with these players and sort or eliminate them as early as possible, so scum can't shield them for later miseliminations. Imagine Sail is town but we just ignore them completely, they keep participating at about the rate they are now, we don't get much actionable info as it relates to their slot because they're not voting or pushing wagons, and now suddenly it's D6 with 7 players alive and 3 mafia. How confident are you going to be that Sail is town based on what we have at that point? and how easy will it be for the mafia to push Sail

then

?

or let's say Dann and Sail are both town. It's clearly a much bigger win for the mafia if we miseliminate Dann here than if we miseliminate Sail, right? and I don't mean for this to be a judgment on Sail's abilities, I'd love it if Sail gave more of themselves to the thread, I am not trying to say Dann is always a better player. I'm just saying given what they've done up to this point so far, a town!Dann is a more threatening player to mafia. He's more widely townread and he's more likely to catch a scum and drive a wagon on them, simply because he's more involved.

What else is your case on sail?

it really is largely a) that I didn't feel like their Norwee vote was genuine, it felt like something Sail did because there was an opportunity to believably join a budding wagon rather than an earnest scumread of theirs along with b) I don't feel Sail has done a whole lot to push people. They're asking questions and commenting on things but it hasn't had enough of an impact for me to reach a level of D1 townread.

Or for another example - in regard to osuka, they've positioned a few times with reasons to suspect him (700, 1117) but there's no vote accompanying either of these callouts. I would normally want/expect town to vote osuka there, it puts more pressure on osuka, and it puts more pressure on everyone else (including hypothetical scum!osuka's scumbuddies) to address the wagon, either joining or declining to join. but instead Sail's just posting reasons to suspect osuka - my cynical/uncharitable view would be that this is either in hopes of getting other folks to get their hands dirty by voting an osuka miselim so Sail doesn't have to, or just angling so that their eventual osuka vote feels more 'believable' because the trajectory was neatly laid out in prior posts.

on re-ISOing Sail (and as it relates to the last comment on osuka in 1237), the most townie thing I see is a handful of references to doing meta research on players. If these meta dives are genuine then Sail is likely town, because scum wouldn't need to check meta in the first place and wouldn't be able to use meta to support a bogus scumread. however these references to looking at past games have been very surface level, so I'd appreciate a bit more detail from Sail with osuka in particular what games they looked at and what patterns they noticed in scum!osuka's completed games that may apply here.

i should point out that sail probably didn't actually bother to do a meta dive on me at all, because if they did they would've found several instances of me admitting to actively going out of my way to set my meta on fire every time i play the game

nice try though

[osuka]

im very very scared of norwe trying to pocket me here, although i'm really not sure whether that's what's happening or not

I feel like you’re the type of slot that would just punch someone that white knights them in the face so i haven’t really been trying to be friendly with you.
Just dismantle your wagon as i do not want a town mislim on day 1.

add this to the list of pocketing evidence

[osuka]

idk the timing of osuka wagon gaining steam after the Sail CW formed is giving me heebie jeebies

I'm also a little bit expecting scum to be bussing osuka here

I don't feel osuka is playing for long term survival here what with his content hard focusing on me of all slots

okay first of all i haven't been hard focusing you and second of all, you should know a lot better than to think scum just hardbusses like this on day 1 if i'm faced with this situation

it's EXACTLY this sort of shit that further convinces me of a scumread on you, just when i'm starting to warm up to you

What made you warm up?

his demeanor in general feels genuine and even though he doesn't always make a whole lot of sense, the thought processes don't feel like they're fabricated. there aren't many weird leaps or open misreps. if there is an agenda, i don't immediately see it.

but then we get a post that's like "oh they're bussing osuka" and i mean, dude, seriously? dann should know better than to say that around this fucking player list of all people

[osuka]

are you talking to me

[osuka]

I basically felt like most your posts in this game was unparseable to me.

if ever struggling to parse can always ask very common for me to have to rephrase both in mafia and life

making things more easily understandable to others is why i've adapted the line breaks and relying on the word 'like' so heavily and such but still i know clarity not a strength of mine

this + 1069 that everyone keeps talking about only made sense to me because i'm high

pretty fucking weird if you ask me

? i took extra care to format 1069 the way i did because fire assassin didn't seem to be following what i was saying regarding

idk i guess i don't get how it's weird

like i'm basically just saying that instead of being like 'i find your posts unparseable' that norwegianboyee (or anyone else for that matter) can simply ask me to rephrase or expand upon etc i know i am unclear but i do lots of things to try to make myself more clear and if there's anything additional anyone would like me to do i am willing to try to do so

no it made sense to me at the time but i was super blitzed and i feel like that’s why it made sense to me. it’s not bad weird, it’s just weird weird

[osuka]

i saw the VC

this checks out, my network of spies confirmed it

[osuka]

I am currently on a train but don't want to miss a good chance to discuss reads in some respect with Ina so I'm gonna phonepost an ordered readslist on how I am feeling right now without easy access to references

Town

Aristeia
Dannflor
ina marija
Dusa
GuiltyLion
NorwegianboyEE
Fire Assassin

Also town probably

Ranger
Osuka
camelCasedSnivy
RCEnigma
Sail
KatyKimFanClub
Doctor Drew

There is no null tier

Scum??

furtiveglance
Andresvmb
Titus
Whemestar

this is an odd reads list. i don't get why andres and wheme are so low, and i sure as all fuck don't understand the townreads on fire assassin, dusa, sail, and rce

[osuka]

i'm not gonna quote it because it's huge but 1366 can be towny i suppose

[osuka]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

you can't read me

It's not that I think it's in your scum meta to do something like that, but based on your personality I could imagine scum!you doing that more than town!you.

you clearly don't know me very well

wanna try again?

[osuka]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

you can't read me

It's not that I think it's in your scum meta to do something like that, but based on your personality I could imagine scum!you doing that more than town!you.

did you ever answer guiltylion question about which osuka games you looked at and what specifically you took from them

No, I just saw that osuka replied to me in a notification and I clicked on it, responded, and now I'm reading.

this, following

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

is more than enough for me to dismiss your entire meta case on me as being an abject failure of a fabrication attempt. your push is horseshit

even IF i didn't immediately see through your "i read osuka's previous games" bullshit, this is effectively an admission of guilt. you said "i read his games and came up with xyz", was asked by guiltylion what games you read, then got a response from me, and THEN you went to read the games? it's fucking amateur hour

[osuka]

like am i completely losing touch with reality here or is that the most asinine sequence of posts in the thread?

[osuka]

i'd vote sail right now if i knew that the vote count was at, i'm not big on a lolhammer here but i'll vote sail if it's anything less than e-2

[osuka]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

which games did you look at?

Divide and Conquer, Fire and More Fire, (towngames) and a random large normal from 2 years ago (scumgames)

I didn't intent to obtain a metaread, I was more trying to get a general feel for his personality.

el-oh-el

[osuka]

These are about where my reads are at. I'm feeling a bit disengaged, I might as well go ISO someone.

Town:

Dannflor
GuiltyLion
ina marija
jjh
Dusa

Leaning town:

furtiveglance
Andresvmb
Doctor Drew
FA

Null, slightly town:

RCE
Aristeia

Null, slightly scum:

camelCasedSnivy
WhemeStar

Leaning scum:

Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)

Scum:

osuka

VOTE: osuka

i would say this is the most unhinged post in the thread but i refuse to believe this is coming from anything but scum. the slot is transparently fabricating reads and i'm pretty sure it'll completely break reality as we know if it sail made even the slightest bit less sense

[osuka]

can someone walk me through the osuka wagon though

i'll sum it up for you: people didn't like my catchups, then they didn't like how i responded to a push, then titus votes because of "vca" and sail is trying to get me executed to save themselves

did i miss anything?

[osuka]

Hey guys.

Still happy with osuka.

I'd be interested to see show of hands for an Ari wagon tho.

you're one of the players on my wagon that i actually think are on it in good faith, but your read on me is wrong. do you wanna talk about it?

[osuka]

i just finished the game definition file here so i'm running the vote counter, give it a minute to do the thing and i'll come back and vote

[osuka]

vote counter formatting is busted or i'd post it, but it has sail at 5
VOTE: sail

now 6

[osuka]

you said "i read his games and came up with xyz", was asked by guiltylion what games you read, then got a response from me, and THEN you went to read the games? it's fucking amateur hour

pretty sure 'and now i'm reading' from sail was referring to the thread, not to the games in question

could still be fabricated of course but i don't think sail was saying they were going to read the games there rather that they were addressing notification before reading the thread and assumedly answering guiltylion's question

which also is kinda ??? because wouldn't guiltylion's question also have generated a notification and such but anyway

the whole thing is a poorly put together attempt at deception. quite sad, really. here's a quote from my own iso in one of the games they themselves chose:

we’ve played together before, in a game where i explicitly said i actively try to set my meta on fire every time i play. most of the time i’m also aiming for the null consensus, which i also believe i mentioned in that game

choose better next time? i dunno, like if you're gonna make shit up like that at least make it look like you tried, no?

[osuka]

i'd say the push was trash but not even the dumpster i take my trash out to smells quite that bad

[osuka]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

you can't read me

It's not that I think it's in your scum meta to do something like that, but based on your personality I could imagine scum!you doing that more than town!you.

did you ever answer guiltylion question about which osuka games you looked at and what specifically you took from them

No, I just saw that osuka replied to me in a notification and I clicked on it, responded, and now I'm reading.

this, following

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

is more than enough for me to dismiss your entire meta case on me as being an abject failure of a fabrication attempt. your push is horseshit

even IF i didn't immediately see through your "i read osuka's previous games" bullshit, this is effectively an admission of guilt. you said "i read his games and came up with xyz", was asked by guiltylion what games you read, then got a response from me, and THEN you went to read the games? it's fucking amateur hour

Not once did I claim to have metadived you. All I said was that I skimmed through a few of your old games, I never said that I had a fully formed meta read or anything like that.

i cannot recall a single instance of anyone correctly reading me off of meta in my entire history on this website

[osuka]

matter of fact, i don't even remember the last time someone actually super nailed me with a scumread. it has happened but not very recently, not very frequently, and certainly not based off of "a general feel for my personality"

[osuka]

can someone walk me through the osuka wagon though

i'll sum it up for you: people didn't like my catchups, then they didn't like how i responded to a push, then titus votes because of "vca" and sail is trying to get me executed to save themselves

did i miss anything?

You’re conveniently ignoring the whole ridiculous Dannflor push.

yeah i was high and forgot about that but if they really do give a fuck it'll be a good chunk of my iso. it's hard to miss

that one's on me

[osuka]

These are about where my reads are at. I'm feeling a bit disengaged, I might as well go ISO someone.

Town:

Dannflor
GuiltyLion
ina marija
jjh
Dusa

Leaning town:

furtiveglance
Andresvmb
Doctor Drew
FA

Null, slightly town:

RCE
Aristeia

Null, slightly scum:

camelCasedSnivy
WhemeStar

Leaning scum:

Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)

Scum:

osuka

VOTE: osuka

i would say this is the most unhinged post in the thread but i refuse to believe this is coming from anything but scum. the slot is transparently fabricating reads and i'm pretty sure it'll completely break reality as we know if it sail made even the slightest bit less sense

My readlist is literally just a summary of all my previous reads on players. I have explained my reads on about half of these players at some point in the past. Does it kill you to ask me why I am reading players the way I am?

See, I feel like town in this situation would actually both to engage with my posts and reads. But osuka is in danger of being limmed, he wants to go as hard as he possibly can at me to buy himself another day.

i was in no real danger at that point already and i knew it:

vote counter formatting is busted or i'd post it, but it has sail at 5
VOTE: sail

now 6

votecounter had me at 3 votes, you at 5 (plus mine, to get to 6). i'm not pushing out of fear or desperation, i'm pushing out of a read formed off of your behavior - not your personality, not some half-assed meta read, and most certainly not self-preservation

[osuka]

I do not want to vote Sail

talk to me - why?

[osuka]

What do you guys think is more likely, knowing Osuka’s character and playstyle?

Taking a look at a few of osuka's previous games I definitely think that's an osuka!scum thing to do.

you can't read me

It's not that I think it's in your scum meta to do something like that, but based on your personality I could imagine scum!you doing that more than town!you.

you clearly don't know me very well

wanna try again?

Maybe not, but I stand by my reasoning.

food for thought: you ever wonder why the people who have actually played with me in the past aren't on the wagon?

[osuka]

Stop framing this as I’m scumreading you primarily off of meta. Meta is maybe 10% of my scumread.

Yeah sure I had a half-assed meta read but that half-assed meta read is just a tiny bullet point after my list of other reasons why I scumread you.

okay let's go from the top then, i'm trying to give you a clean slate here

why do you scumread me?

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

I think this is more likely to be scum than Sail.

deranged

care to explain why, or are you just digging your heels in with sail and i'm just a cop-out vote?

[osuka]

1440 - @osuka, be honest with me. Would you try and pocket me as Scum? Or do you think you would go the discredit route? I know if you’re Scum you’re going to lie to me, but I want to have this for the future.

yes i would, if the conditions allowed for it and it made sense at the time

[osuka]

I appreciate you asking me these questions by the way. I think they're very helpful in forcing me to try to figure out what is going on.

this might be the single towniest post in the entire thread so far

[osuka]

You have jjh and sail in a similar scum category. What do you think about jjh calling out which games sail read up on Osuka when Sail claimed to do a meta dive there?

I’m not trying super hard to make pre-flip associations at this stage, and I have really conflicting feelings about jjh. Like it’s hard for me to say I’m convinced jjh flips Scum. I’m skeptical of the slot, I need to read more. I did catch the questions about the meta, but I don’t think jjh pushed Sail super hard based on those responses did they? But asking them when the answers were clearly not great, should Sail flip Scum, certainly would count in their favor.

Like this logic applies to GuiltyLion who I already think is Town. I caught all this from ISO’ing osuka.

@osuka btw I want to see you complete your thoughts on Fire Assassin, and update your read on Drew if you can. You may have left a question out there asking them about their reads but not really probing them in the early part of the game.

i think drew is null but i dont bother trying to sort him day 1 anyway. he feels town but im not putting a lot of weight behind that.

fire assassin was talking out of his ass for a while there. he started off okay but then took a turn for the weird a couple hundred posts ago

[osuka]

does that answer your question or am i an idiot? let me know

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

I think this is more likely to be scum than Sail.

deranged

care to explain why, or are you just digging your heels in with sail and i'm just a cop-out vote?

Well, it seems I'm deranged so I doubt you would understand my reasoning.

indulge me

[osuka]

I'm good.

okay so either i'm a cop-out vote, or you're openly anti-town. can you at least let me know which?

[osuka]

okay thanks for answering

[osuka]

i dont think anyone else needs any more incentive than someone willing that badly to jump on the sword for sail, surely? surely we just vote sail off and then follow with kkfc?

[osuka]

and honestly im even down to just fucking policy a slot that straight up refuses to interact with other people in the game

[osuka]

and honestly im even down to just fucking policy a slot that straight up refuses to interact with other people in the game

Or maybe you should try being just a bit more approachable.

like seriously what the fuck am i gonna do? bite?

[osuka]

It’s been a week man, my recycling bin got set on fire, my car got totaled, power is going out every other day.

But yea wrong person getting the credit, I should remember GL posting something that made me think yeah…I could see them being town. So maybe that was it. Dunno why I was giving that to jjh though.

i hope you figure things out!

quick question though: how, exactly, does a recycling bin catch fire?

[osuka]

UNVOTE: sail because theyre at e-1 and we have plenty of time to let them catch up after vla

[osuka]

i still intend to vote sail and ill gladly hammer if necessary

[osuka]

Based off our interactions, I think Andres is town.
That is all.

good take

[osuka]

These are about where my reads are at. I'm feeling a bit disengaged, I might as well go ISO someone.

Town:

Dannflor
GuiltyLion
ina marija
jjh
Dusa

Leaning town:

furtiveglance
Andresvmb
Doctor Drew
FA

Null, slightly town:

RCE
Aristeia

Null, slightly scum:

camelCasedSnivy
WhemeStar

Leaning scum:

Titus
Ranger
NorwegianboyEE (not totally sure though)

Scum:

osuka

VOTE: osuka

Sail having ouska this low after this long suggests S v S possibly.

don't you yourself have me as a scumlean? why does his scumread on me mean it's svs? bizarre take

[osuka]

do you have, like, opinions on sail

or osuka even

Uhm I’ve been initially townreading osuka

Then I read their interactions with KKFC who I thought was just being a fly on the wall and treading water but then with their interactions osuka looked pretty bad and KKFC owned.

that's hardly owning anything, kkfc just shut me out even when i made an honest and overt effort to get their opinion - which to be clear, they refused to provide and still have yet to elaborate on

if refusing to converse is considered owning then i dont know what the fuck is going on in this game anymore, i'm sorry. i have no idea how anyone's expected to respond to a push that they don't actually know why exists to begin with

[osuka]

in other words, that entire exchange with kkfc is complete horseshit and i refuse to acknowledge their push as legitimate until they provide a modicum of clarity around it

[osuka]

Spoiler:

Lower strengths..

Spoiler:

ok im sorry this is way too obtuse, i have no idea what this means

can someone explain

[osuka]

It’s been a week man, my recycling bin got set on fire, my car got totaled, power is going out every other day.

But yea wrong person getting the credit, I should remember GL posting something that made me think yeah…I could see them being town. So maybe that was it. Dunno why I was giving that to jjh though.

i hope you figure things out!

quick question though: how, exactly, does a recycling bin catch fire?

Pretty sure someone set something on fire and tossed it in there.

thats fucked up, whenever i set shit on fire it's either my shit or if it's ever someone else's shit, it's with the owner's consent

[osuka]

do you have, like, opinions on sail

or osuka even

Uhm I’ve been initially townreading osuka

Then I read their interactions with KKFC who I thought was just being a fly on the wall and treading water but then with their interactions osuka looked pretty bad and KKFC owned.

that's hardly owning anything, kkfc just shut me out even when i made an honest and overt effort to get their opinion - which to be clear, they refused to provide and still have yet to elaborate on

if refusing to converse is considered owning then i dont know what the fuck is going on in this game anymore, i'm sorry. i have no idea how anyone's expected to respond to a push that they don't actually know why exists to begin with

It was more so you came off hostile and they handled it masterfully

yes i came off hostile but no they did not handle it masterfully. they barely handled it at all. refusing to talk does NOT qualify as handling that line of questioning

[osuka]

busy at work but in the meantime VOTE: sail

[osuka]

e-2

[osuka]

finish them

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

I think we need to do this first.

The reason you didn't want Ranger yesterday was "PR", so why aren't you wanting to sort there now?

I have a sinking suspicion that Ranger is Town and some of the slots pushing there right now just want to get away with consecutive Town executions. Sail flipping Town doesn’t directly point to Ranger being Scum, but it certainly makes osuka look horrific. As much as I like them, I certainly think they’re the slot to flip.

ive always known you to be reasonable so assume for a second i'm town. who do you vote and why?

[osuka]

i gotta say i'm town on ranger vs. ccs here. i think i gotta do some more reading on snivy specifically, because that slot is sort of a question mark to me

can someone remind me, why do people want to jump on ranger again? is that just because jjh flipped tpr?

[osuka]

hey guys sorry for dropping off the face of the planet, my teams had a really long week at work today to meet a deadline. id show you the 1am commit logs but that's company info and i have an nda so youll just have to believe me

ill be back in a couple hours to read stuff

[osuka]

apologies folks, unexpected events took place yesterday and i ended up in a different state. whoops. nothing bad happened other than the fact i feel like i'm about to perish, so i'll be back in a bit to write some words and do some things as soon as i attend to some biological imperatives and ensure my life functions are indeed functioning

[osuka]

ive returned folks

my brain may or may not be currently undergoing combustion so i might not catch up completely tonight but i promise to make the effort*

effort not promised

[osuka]

ha, see that? that's a drew joke

i made a drew joke, it's a joke about drew

[osuka]

{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{furtiveglance, NorwegianboyEE}
{Dusa, osuka}
{Dannflor}
{GuiltyLion}
{Titus, Andresvmb}
{RCEnigma}
{WhemeStar}
{Fire Assassin}
{Aristeia}
{camelCasedSnivy}

I actually

lean

scum on Fire Assassin right now.

I'm not happy about the furtiveglance or Titus tiers; the others feel about right for where I am, though I still need refinement.

you had me right up until here. that list means you're LEANING scum on fire assassin? this is completely off the rails, the lists are borderline unreadable

as much as i hate to admit it, youve made sense elsewhere in the page so fuck me i guess

[osuka]

VOTE: Osuka

care to expound

[osuka]

ranger kind of a weird question but if you were scum who would you push for a mislim other than me

Oh, Fire Assassin. Easily.

how come? not saying i disagree or that this is absurd or anything, but i'm very curious as to how you came to the conclusion

[osuka]

Ranger, why didn’t you case Camel before FA directly asked you to today?

Because

nobody asked

.

I've been rather transparent about my methods. If people engage with me, this is what they get. It's not

my

shortcoming if I tell people to engage with me and they fail to.

This is what you would've gotten yesterday if you

had

.

The difference between today and yesterday really is that simple. I was ignored yesterday. I wasn't ignored today. I told you yesterday what people needed to do for me to provide this. Perhaps you should ask why nobody did until today?

unquestionably bad way to play the game but since i'm an enabler: why did i move up in your list? because sail flipped green?

[osuka]

dare i say fire assassin makes sense on page 81?

[osuka]

im about to go into a deep slumber so i havent gotten past a couple posts into page 82, but the more i think about it, the more i think i can get on board with a ccs wagon. i'm just wary of how it came about. i like the logic but i'm not sure i trust the intentions and i need to figure that out before i get a vote in

[osuka]

GL can you please explain what feels really townie about Ranger

I can try but I am not sure it will be satisfying, bear with me, I can probably try to articulate this in more depth tomorrow

it's a combo of 1) the stubborn attitude insisting that she was ignored while pushing CCS and pulling up the receipts, as well as 2) her appeal to camel's town meta, it's not giving me the vibe of a player who knows she's pushing bullshit

based on my history with her as a player (across several of her accounts, I'm trying not to compare them directly as I know she doesn't like that, but I do feel it's relevant) - when I have seen her push narratives as scum she's been prone to distort things or make particularly aggressive claims in service to her narrative, whereas here this tunnel feels more grounded in actual events of the thread and thus without an underlying scum agenda. like my impression is that if she were scum then a post like 1993 would have read maybe like 10-15%

more

aggressive and reachy, like she may have attempted to shade me or other players that ignored her original camel vote, in an emulation of how she argues or posts as town. but instead this instance feels pure to me

let me know whether that makes sense or if you disagree, you were scum in the House of the Dragon game and my experience in that game is informing this read significantly

this might be the best towncase for ranger in the entire thread

[osuka]

I want to see the result here. I am finding it interesting that there's no follow up from the people who voted yesterday.

as in, the people who voted for sail? i felt like i had to take a step back because i clearly had a lot of things wrong, and a big part of not being a fucking idiot is to know when to stop (which i'm trying to do here)

[osuka]

fwiw i think sail was a good exec and they did themselves absolutely no favors, but in any case i was still wrong so theres that

[osuka]

based on my history with her as a player (across several of her accounts, I'm trying not to compare them directly as I know she doesn't like that, but I do feel it's relevant)

You must be thinking of someone else.

Ranger is my only account.

I was not a player in House of Dragons.

welp i take whatever i said about gl's towncase back then

i might be horribly confused

[osuka]

I'm not sure osuka is scum anymore, but I'm still confused about their immediate jump to trying to policy me kind of late in Day 1.
It's not like I was ever a legit wagon.

i sure as fuck hope you realize this at this point, but i wanted to policy your slot because you openly refused to play the fucking game. that's not necessarily scum indicative, it's just against the spirit of the game and it makes for a shitty time, for a shitty game, and creates exactly this sort of bullshit empty conversation that we're having right now

[osuka]

for the record, my day 1 questions for kkfc remain unanswered

[osuka]

*do you not like my reasoning?, wtf phone

you didn't offer any elaborate reasoning?

[osuka]

vote count 2.02

dismissal

Ranger [3]:

Titus, Dusa, RCEnigma

camelCasedSnivy [3]:

Ranger, GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE

osuka [2]:

Andresvmb, Aristeia

WhemeStar [1]:

Alisae

Doctor Drew [1]:

camelCasedSnivy

Titus [1]:

Fire Assassin

not voting [6]:

Dannflor, WhemeStar, furtiveglance, osuka, KatyKimFanClub, Doctor Drew

i think wheme town
titus is idk
osuka is town
not much room for any viable wagons and the ranger wagon lost interest from yesterday which might be scum not trying to bus her today? ill come to that conclusion if ranger flips red
VOTE: Ranger

This is specifically the interaction which I feel makes the vote so suspect.

At the top of the page, the Ranger/CCS votes were equal, at 3.

CCS voting me to make my wagon larger than his wouldn't be +scum. However, scum have a nasty habit of

believing

actions they'd take as town would be

perceived

as scum. If CCS voted me out of OMGUS and/or survivalism, it would've been nai-at-worst. Instead, CCS invented a reason to justify the vote.

There was a viable wagon. Voting osuka would've created a three-way tie. With all the slots scumreading osuka, wagoning there would've been viable. The need to create a reason in a situation where no reason was needed is a disproportionately +scum trait. The shakiness of the reason backs up the likelihood too.

are you saying i'm teamed with ccs?

[osuka]

Snivys interactions with Ranger remind me of myself in weird dreams

what does this mean?

[osuka]

im about to go into a deep slumber so i havent gotten past a couple posts into page 82, but the more i think about it, the more i think i can get on board with a ccs wagon. i'm just wary of how it came about. i like the logic but i'm not sure i trust the intentions and i need to figure that out before i get a vote in

Who are the sketchy names involved? {Ranger, GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE} are likely all town. Do you suspect furtiveglance or KatyKimFanClub?

id happily vote kkfc off if i had to make a choice right now without going back to read anything. i'm suspicious of you and of fg (albeit slightly less so)

that all being said - i never once said the problem with the wagon was the people on it. this is an extremely strange response

[osuka]

i said "i'm wary of how [a wagon] came about", and you immediately jump to "who do you scumread that's on it"? that's fucking glaring

[osuka]

*do you not like my reasoning?, wtf phone

you didn't offer any elaborate reasoning?

if i offer elaborate reasoning for anyone else theres a good chance im not going to start a wagon

this begs for an explanation

[osuka]

Oh and if anybody is serious about figuring this out, I would be analyzing the composition of the early wagon that built on osuka and see if there’s a lot of overlap with the one that went through for Sail. That may tell us if there’s a decent chance of osuka flipping Scum for instance. It might also tell us for the future what Scum tipped Sail over the edge, but didn’t want to execute osuka as they were their Partner for instance (or if osuka flips Town at some point, you can look closer at the overlap of players). Some ideas from the information we do have. We could also contrast that with the players pushing Snivy today, for example. It’s what I will probably do once I get back if no one has taken me up on it.

let me know your thoughts on this

[osuka]

an explanation of my vote or what?

how are you this badly confused

norwe said he doesn't like your post, then you asked if he doesn't like your reasoning, to which my immediate response was "there was barely any reasoning anywhere"

[osuka]

im about to go into a deep slumber so i havent gotten past a couple posts into page 82, but the more i think about it, the more i think i can get on board with a ccs wagon. i'm just wary of how it came about. i like the logic but i'm not sure i trust the intentions and i need to figure that out before i get a vote in

Who are the sketchy names involved? {Ranger, GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE} are likely all town. Do you suspect furtiveglance or KatyKimFanClub?

id happily vote kkfc off if i had to make a choice right now without going back to read anything. i'm suspicious of you and of fg (albeit slightly less so)

that all being said - i never once said the problem with the wagon was the people on it. this is an extremely strange response

If you didn't think the people on the wagon was a problem then what do you mean by being wary by how it came about?
What was it that made you wary?

the entire wagon is made out of fucking air? here's how it started:

ugh 1 day deadline ig ill vote sail
VOTE: Sail

Shame on you all for not realizing this was transparently scum.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

VOTE: Ranger Easily flips red and I think Snivy flips red if that’s the case.

Here's an idea; help me bus camelCasedSnivy, the elimination I kept advocating for yesterday which nobody was interested in despite how obviously scum he is.

so there's already not much there. this is the only vote that doesn't irk me:

Ranger's posts on D2 have felt really townie to me

VOTE: camelcasedsnivy

I think his engagement with Ranger is especially scummy, the 'you haven't played with town!me' defense in 1900 and 1946 is giving me the vibe that CCS is trying to logically discredit an argument rather than knowing it's wrong a priori. like if CCS were town I think the reaction would be less 'how do you know my town meta?' and more 'you don't know my town meta'

it's also kinda bonkers to me that FA is coming to opposite conclusions as I feel we usually read things in a similar way. I could see a world where CCS is 3p (based on that OG BlueSnakelet post) and FA is trying to WK a slot he knows won't flip mafia. Dusa stock is also tanking in my reads right now

because right after this (seriously 15 posts after that):

i think wheme town

titus is idk

osuka is town

not much room for any viable wagons and the ranger wagon lost interest from yesterday which might be scum not trying to bus her today? ill come to that conclusion if ranger flips red

VOTE: Ranger

norwe sheeps ranger, ccs votes for ranger, and 2 hours later fg comes out of nowhere and says "actually i was iffy on the player ccs replaced so you know, fuck it here's a vote"

furtive are you going to give your latest reads list?

They're a bit loose right now, I'll try and divine some insight later with a full list.

For now though, I'm going to vote Snivy. I townread BlueSnakelet but now think that was maybe for superficial reasons, and since coming in CCS has looked more and more like a scum slot to me, and I'm still thinking Ranger makes sense as town.

Aristeia is still a scumread of mine but I think that wagon will have to wait until later in the game.

VOTE: Camelcasedsnivy

and to finish it off kkfc comes in to give everyone an empty vote without any sort of discernible reasoning or thought process behind it:

VOTE: CamelCaseSnivy

Something about the posts is off

"something about the posts is off"? seriously? like that's not even a real sentence, they couldn't even be bothered to pretend like they give a fuck about what's going on in the wagon

[osuka]

like 2079 is almost openly coasting

[osuka]

it's fucking amateur hour

[osuka]

you know what fuck it, let's spice this game up

VOTE: kkfc

[osuka]

i dont know what i expected but i gotta say, it wasn't that

[osuka]

You saying that about me?

yeah but not in a bad way, just surprised

[osuka]

VOTE: kffc

i cant believe people finally decided kffc was scummy

i dont think anyone else needs any more incentive than someone willing that badly to jump on the sword for sail, surely? surely we just vote sail off and then follow with kkfc?

looks like youre just a minute or two late to the party

[osuka]

i sure as fuck hope you realize this at this point, but i wanted to policy your slot because you openly refused to play the fucking game. that's not necessarily scum indicative, it's just against the spirit of the game and it makes for a shitty time, for a shitty game, and creates exactly this sort of bullshit empty conversation that we're having right now

But I'm playing the game? I feel like you're just mad I'm not playing it the way you want me to.

if you want this conversation to go anywhere you'll have to start posting intelligent things

[osuka]

answer quick I know you're here!

Sorry was writing another comment. I'm pretty confused by him, because the way I read his posts it just seems like he dislikes my slot for reasons unrelated to my actually being scum.

Like he's been pretty blatantly rude and decided that my reaction that warrants a policy vote.

i strongly dislike the way you're playing the game AND i think you're scum. those arent mutually exclusive

[osuka]

Osuka still feels like a child of Ares that hides away in dueling rings!

VOTE: osuka

2079 is very bad but it is hard to decide it is evil bad. Osuka is judging souls the way Hades does!

let me know if you want me to explain why youre wrong

[osuka]

i can tolerate being voted

i cant tolerate my name being written in pascal case

towniest_post_in_the_game

[osuka]

You realize osuka's reasoning is a policy vote right?

false

you should read the thread repeatedly until you understand what happened

[osuka]

care to explain why, or are you just digging your heels in with sail and i'm just a cop-out vote?

By the way, this is the "question" from Day 1 that I never answered from osuka that he's trying to policy me over. Notice how I literally answer it a few posts later.

The ad homs reek of scum trying to bully me into laying off you.

that was a twist that you yourself put on my posts that wasn't there at all. you decided in your head for whatever reason that i was trying to bully you into backing off, when in fact i was going FAR out of my way to give you a chance to explain yourself before i called you out on the fact that your play was incongruent with itself

this is where i'd normally say "do better" but i'm not entirely convinced you can at this point in time anymore

[osuka]

I'm kind of baffled by your gameplay in Day 2.

Like I voted for you, and you didn't react to it, but then you joined the wagon on me while directly referencing my vote on you.

Similarly, you said you wanted to give towncred to EVERYONE on my wagon, for their "reasoning", but literally only one person out of three (osuka) even gave a reason, and it's pretty clear that there's a lot of history from Day 1 involved in osuka's vote, so why haven't you been voting me earlier? You already said earlier in the game that osuka and I were likely to be opposite alignments, and you've made it clear that you townread him.

So how exactly did Aristeia and Norwegian get towncred? Honestly that comment looks like TMI to me.

this, however, is a very good point. i'm gonna go back to that exchange later tonight with a fresh mind and see if i see it the same way

[osuka]

i kinda forgot that only osuka was voting you

the reference was simply for comedy

??????????