Supernatural mafia - Mafia team wins!!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hunt: Chronopie

He's going to lurk to a massive degree so hunting him down is the only viable option.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, back from my 4th of July Family duties so if you don’t like long catch-up posts I have one thing to state –

What a blatant lie. His avatar told you to VOTE robocopter, not HUNT him.

Unvote; Vote: animorpherv1

So you got to the trouble of attacking Ani for incorrectly parsing Robo’s avatar when Hunting is this game’s mechanic and then immediately make a fail Hunt on Ani? Interesting.

if benmage is in on its good enough for me

Do you intend to defer all your decisions to benmage?

I think the hydras should have to disclose their account names as a rule, but if no such rule exists *shrug*. I don't rely on meta very much, so it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.

This pretty much summarizes my thoughts on the Hydra issue. If GenericHydra doesn’t want to disclose their identities and Farside has no issue with that there’s not much point pushing the issue.

GH will not suffer any of the Meta downsides associated with the disclosure but also doesn’t get any of the benefits. Hydrak may have Town-tells related to their Metas. GH is basically going to be treated as a brand new account.

I don't understand why I'd make a good policy lynch.

- Significantly more often than not, I'm town (like 85:15)
- I'm usually vanilla
- I have a clear history of being mislynch bait.
/meta discussion

I mean, I know I'm not the best Scum Demon-hunter, but I'm still willing to take A Shot at it.

1. Everyone is more often Town than Mafia. Irrelevant
2. Everyone is usually Vanilla as opposed to any other role. Irrelevant
3. Your history of being mislynch bait means you play a bad game. Shape up or ship out (via being hunted).

The fact that you have to say you are “still willing” to scum-hunt indicates why you are a perfect policy lynch. It’s pretty much understood that Town should be doing this. You, regardless of alignment, instead tend to be a lurking, non-scumhunting drag on the game.

I might be fine with a policy on Chrono too. I don't know the other two. But I would hold off on policy for right now. I think that would only be helping scum early if we just tried it at the beginning.

Congratulations on making this post doublely scummy! First we have fence-sitting (I MIGHT be fine) re: Chrono. Second you are advocating saving policy lynches for later. You policy lynch, if at all, early because there is a general lack of information. Once the game is several Days deep you should be lynching on gameplay and gameplay alone.

You know, I'm more interested to find out which characters are here and what their role powers are. The quotes from the show so far have piqued my interest.

I’ll second the notion that your interest in finding out character identities as opposed to looking for scum is troubling.

Unhunt

Hunt: Kagelord

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wow...

I thought people had more common sense than this

. By "I'm more interested", I meant that I am more interested in that than in finding out who GH is. Thanks for the misrep though.

Besides,

you might need some help with grammar

. The words "more interested" imply that it is more interesting than something else, but not necessarily the most interesting. If I had been saying I care more about that than scumhunting, I would have said, "I'm most interested to..."

Emphasis added. The bolding highlights the places where you’ve chosen to insult LMP, and by corralary myself. Not Pro-Town at all.

The context by which it it assumed that you are more interested in flavour discussion than scum-hunting is inferred by the fact you have done ZERO scum-hunting and plenty of flavour related posting so far.

It is still a fair point though that farside could have switched a couple important alignments while leaving some more minor characters alone, so you are right there.

This is exactly why the whole discussion revolving around roles that might or might not be Town is

at this point

worthless and not Pro-Town.

@Chrono re: 149

– Way to provide solid proof that you aren’t going to scum-hunt. 100% IIoA in what little we get.

Seems like you just made a halfway joking case about a joking comment I made, knowing it'd fall through, but then when someone else picked up the scent, you pretended you were serious the first time. Hmmmmm....

You went to all the quoting trouble multiple posts and come to no conclusion? This looks like an subtle attempt to paint LynchMe and Starbuck as scummy without outright supporting it.

Loaded question?

Real answer: Too early to tell ATP. Nobody's made any slips yet that I can see.

You had no problems identifying Town reads early on in Stardust Mafia. Why the reluctance here?

Also what do you think of Kagelord's fence-sitting regarding a Chrono policy lynch that I previously highlighted?

If I had to waste time explaining ever gut read I ever got, they would cease to be 'gut' reads and become logical conclusions. Something that pretty much takes away from the fact that they're just 'gut' reads.

1. Sharing information with Town (if you are Town) is never a waste of time.
2. Logical conclucions are always more believable and reliable than gut-reads.

@MOD These three players have failed to post, can we get some prods goin?
easjo682

If history is any less easjo is just going to show up, say nothing in her posts, and lurk further. Hopefully she will not respond and can be replaced.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not really. I think it was scummy of LMP to do that, but I don't think it necessarily means anything about Starbuck. She was just late on the draw, and it's LMP that pinged my scumdar with that.

Then why didn’t you outright call LMP scummy? Using “Hmmmm” as a proxy gives you an out to say you didn’t think he was should you need to at a later day (or it did until this conversation, anyway). Leaving yourself ‘breathing room’is not Pro-Town.

I'll have to read again. I didn't notice that... and I didn't notice you calling him out on it. Where?

You will find it here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What do you think of LMP leaving himself 'breathing room' by not following up his suspicion of my joke (because, after all, sarcasm and the internet aren't friends, or something), and then once Starbuck thought the same thing about my comment, LMP pretended that it's valid again all of a sudden? Is that not the very definition of what you just described?

I’ve gone back to read the exchange to get a full feeling of whether the situation is analogous, as you suggest. The sequence of events as I see it.

This is actually a really great point. This information could be useful to the town, so they should provide it.

You say "the town" like you aren't part of us.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

hmmmm... i must have forgotten to use [sarcasm] tags...

i guess they didn't make the port over from phpbb2, sry

Oh, well, you know sarcasam and the interwebz... they are mortal enemies.

You comment that LMP appears to be separating himself from Town (an accusation, however small, that he is scummy). He says it’s ridiculous. You back-track and say you were being sarcastic. He says sarcasm and the web ‘don’t mix’. I think he was pretty clear when he called your initial statement ridiculous, but he didn’t come out and directly say it was scummy. So in context it does warrant attention.

On the other hand your immediate back-track in saying you were being sarcastic when it doesn’t appear you were also appears scummy.

Speaking of which, you seem pretty confident... who are YOUR town reads?

I think we had this discussion in Stardust … I don’t give explicit Town reads Day 1. I don’t believe in them. Now I have to decide if you truly forgot that or you are attempting to use that knowledge in a back-handed attack on me.

And for the record – why I asked you in the first place is because your play here is suddenly very similar to your Day 1 Stardust play. Thus my interest has been piqued and I was curious how you would react to the question.

To answer you: Yeah, I think it's interesting, but not necessarily a huge tell.

More weasel-wording from you. It’s interesting (which is again code for scummy) but not a huge tell. So you can go either way on it. And I’m curious how large a scum-tell you are expecting to see this early Day 1?

Aside from those being prodded I’d really like to see some content (aka scum-hunting) from the following players :

animorpherv1
Untrod Tripod
tubby216

[MagnaofIllusion]

And anyway, you just answered your own question. If something's not blatantly scummy, what do you expect me to call it?

How big of a scum-tell are YOU expecting to see on Day 1?

I think his fence-sitting is blatantly scummy. Thus I called it that.

I expect the scum-tells on Day 1 to be much smaller than any other Day. Day 1 scum-hunting is by nature going to be the hardest. The potential scum-tells will be the smallest as we have the least information to work from. I liken it to working on the small bit of puffy drywall you find. As you dig into it sometimes it is just puffy due to condensation. Sometimes there’s dry-rot and other damage beneath. But you aren’t going to find out if you don’t go digging.

have you ever played a game with me?

or rather Tried to play a game with me?

Its how I roll.

So you roll with Chrono? Thanks for the explanation. It makes it much easier to classify your play.

For the second part, there hadn't been much scum hunting to do up until that point because all anyone was talking about was the hydra and policy lynching. Considering how he made only 3 posts (including that one) it's interesting why you bring up how he had done "ZERO" scum hunting and plenty of flavor related posted.

Funny, I managed to find things I thought were scummy by my third post. Are you asserting there was no possibility of scum-hunting in the first three days of play? If so I heartily disagree. I have found his play to be scummy and addressed it as I feel appropriate.

Again you bring up something Kage said as being "not Pro-town" (you've said it to other people as well). Why? That doesn't make it scummy or anti-town, so why bring it up? To me it just looks like you trying to overemphasis how unhelpful many of his posts are by saying things that look bad, but make no difference. Especially whether or not people are being "pro town" should not be your concern, but whether they're being anti-town or scummy.

By definition being “not Pro-Town” is either anti-Town or scummy. I frankly don’t see how you reach any other conclusion. I use ‘not Pro-Town’ when I feel behaviour straddles that ever blurry line between the two. Your opinion of what should or should not be my concern means little to me but thanks for your input.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And once again by vote Reaper means Hunt

[MagnaofIllusion]

So let's say Kage never made that post and the hydra was never the talk of the town. Then your second post of the game would have been short responses to only 3 posts. That's not very much compared to how useless you tried to make Kage look.

This whole argument is a theoretical exercise that doesn’t reflect reality. You are attacking me for calling out his lack of scum-hunting by waving away one of his posts and then stating that he doesn’t have much content. Kage controls this quantity and quality of content. Defending his lack of scum-hunting (which, BTW, has persisted for his entire ISO) by saying he is active lurking is a pretty bad argument to make.

Sawyer – find a post in Kage’s ISO that shows any sort of scum-hunting and point it out to me. Here’s a link to simplify the process for you

For the record notice that since he’s come under fire by myself and others Kage hasn’t bothered to begin scum-hunting but just faded into the background. He’s certainly been active in other threads.

But that's in the past now that you have openly admitted to thinking it's specifically scummy. So you think his insult (to LMP and yourself) and difference of opinion (knowing which characters are in the game) is particularly scummy? Is there anything else to support your vote (just curious).

Reasons why I am still very happy with my vote.

1. He pulls a double of scumminess here as I have previously mentioned. He fences-sits on the possibility of a Chrono policy lynch. Scummy for not taking a stance when it is a fairly black or white issue regardless of what side you might fall on. He then advocates saving a policy lynch for a nebulous later, which reads to me as not today. His later explanation regarding that issue isn’t convincing, IMO.
2.

You know, I'm more interested to find out which characters are here and

what their role powers are

. The quotes from the show so far have piqued my interest.

As JMJ has succinctly put it the bolded part is role-fishing. Scummy.

Also, knowing which characters are in the game could be pretty important actually.

Based on knowledge of the show, we might then be able to guess at their powers and would almost surely know which characters were scum.

It seems like an interesting enough idea to me to (much later in the game) ask what peoples' character names are

Here he further states(in the bolded section) that he really is role-fishing. That is a road-map for scum to target Town PRs. While Town is wading through the various claims (which undoubtedly include safe-claims of some sort) Scum has a very good idea where to start killing.

The last portion where he states he means later in the game reads to me as back-tracking. If that was his original thnking there would be no reason for him to present it early Day 1 in the first place. He got called out (rightfully so, IMO) by multiple people and thus attempts to ‘revise’.

3. As stated above … total lack of scum-hunting.

4.

Well, first of all, if I was scum I would be unlikely to risk detection by saying something like that. It's only because I'm town that I thought it would be safe to make a little joke comment (apparently I was wrong). I don't know any scum that would be so bold as to say something like that (granted, I have only played in 3 games).

WIFOM

Whatever, I suppose I've already messed this game up enough. It looks like the first day might be wasted with my mislynch anyway.

Appeal to Emotion

But since you've all been wrong about me so far, I figure I have some right to say that, ne?

AtE part Deux

Plus I was in the final 3 in both games I lost (the town loss was my partner's early voting mistake, but the scum loss was mine).

Subtle inference that based on his past games he’s made it deep into the game (regardless of alignment) thus he should do so in this game. Flawed use of meta.

Individually each fallacy isn’t outright scummy but the weight of them en mass tips the scale.

That should be more than enough to clarify why my vote rests with him.

PREVIEW EDIT - The prodigal son returns. Explanations as to why you aren't doing anything really don't replace actual scum-hunting. Perhaps your typing would be best served doing that.

But less scummy than KageLord being interested in the setup, I presume. At least, that's what I gather from looking at who you are Hunting.

Umm …what? I called Kagelord scummy for fence-sitting. And then voted for him. What in the heck are you saying here?

Reaper you are a conundrum. I really like 231 . It’s very relevant to scum-hunting and advancing the game.

Then I see page 10 and 11’s ‘Great RC debate’.

What in the heck am I going to do with you son? You just encourage Ani and others to continue to add nothing of value to the game with that. You are wasting your potential here [/Dad style pep talk off]

Regarding Midnight’s 224

–

Insert face-palm pic of choice here.

Regarding skeith’s 226

– Refer to the above picture.

To all those not posting

– Come out come out wherever you are!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

EBWOP - Sawyer ignore my link to an ISO of Kage in 273. I screwed that up someone. You'll have to use the ISO feature when you search for Kage's non-existant scum-hunting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Groupthink and Lowell …

It'd probably disturb you if I asked how old you are, wouldn't it?

It wouldn’t disturb me so much as make me wonder why you might think it is actually game relevant.

That said, I'm generally against policy lynches - could someone please explain why a policy lynch on Chronopie would happen?

I'm against it; I'm using my vote for something else.

So you are against a policy lynch on Chrono and want to use your vote for something else. Which is a lynch of lurkers. Which in itself is a policy lynch, and the reason why people are suggesting a Chrono lynch.

I generally consider cognitive dissonance as scummy, and this is no different. But wow this is beyond what I have ever seen before. Congratulations … this is the closest I’ve been to stunned by a Mafia game ever.

Why point that out? He wasn't scumhunting before his attacks either and he's posting a fair amount so it seems.

I don’t know … because a common tactic for scum when under fire in a large game is to fade into the background and let someone else make a stupid play and draw fire?

It's not role-fishing, it's curiosity.

He doesn't say he was role fishing, he says that would he's been saying could be helpful (though I disagree).

Yes it is role-fishing. We aren’t going to agree on this so stop trying to paint your opinion as inherently more valid than mine.

And of course he isn’t literally saying he is role-fishing. That’s my take from his statement.

I suppose I can see your reasons for voting Kage, aside from what I addressed before,

even though I don't think they're particularly strong enough reasons to last till later in the game though.

Please explain what in the hell you mean by the bolded portion.

I can't make any solid reads.

So I need to throw you in my mental pile of players who will do NOTHING to help hunt scum in this game then?

Ahem. Unhunt; Hunt: Starbuck

Sheep votes/hunts are appreciated.

Is this the point where we accuse you of intergame OMGUS? Because I’m unclear on when that totally useless statement applies. [/sarcasm off]

Note how the sarcasm tags did survive the move?

unhunt: hunt: reapercharlie

I do not like your tone Sir. That and the squeekiest wheel gets the grease so there you go.

I appreciate that you are internally consistent in following Benmage’s thoughts on issues based on your earlier statements.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok kids we’ve got about 10 days to actually come to a conclusion. I’d suggest people start seriously looking at the game as a whole as opposed to supporting their grudge / tell. Realistically the Hunt count looks hideous at this point. Way too many 1 to 1 votes.

The following people need to really start contributing to the game and scum-hunting -

Nero Cain
Hydrak
GroupThink
animorpherv1
Snow_Bunny
Chronopie
jmj3000
GenericHydra
Starbuck
TheLonging
BlazezRb
molestargazer
Robocopter87
Untrod Tripod

Feel slighted you are on the list? Tough … start contributing.

To Whoever Replaces Kagelord

– If your first two posts don’t contain some actual scumhunting I think my head will explode. Please don’t make me campaign in a Caps Lawk Alliance fashion for your head on a platter any more than I already have.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh sh*t I didn't realize you and Fate were tight

We aren't. That doesn't preclude me from using that obnoxius style if necessary.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also for reasons that I can't discuss due to MS standards -

MORE VOTES ON KAGE / HIS REPLACEMENT PLEASE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Uh, Kagelord just replaced INTO [REDACTED]

WTF

As I said -

MORE VOTES ON KAGELORD'S SLOT PLEASE!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hunt: Starbuck

For being an idiot. This is obviously her grasping at an opportunity to kill a town member with little to no reasoning.

Really? Why do you assume Kage is Town.

Since we are 5 days from deadline I'm going to follow Benmage on this.

VOTE: Tripod

[MagnaofIllusion]

Could you or Magna show me where this is?

Sure .. here’s the original post by Reaper the spurred my response.

This is actually a really great point. This information could be useful to the town, so they should provide it.

You say "the town" like you aren't part of us.

igmeoy

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

:hmmmm... i must have forgotten to use [sarcasm] tags...

i guess they didn't make the port over from phpbb2, sry

Oh, well, you know sarcasam and the interwebz... they are mortal enemies.

Ok, so you are ready to drop it then, but when Starbuck comes up and says:

I didn't get that feeling. This feels to be like you are trying to put suspicion where there really is none.

Then all of a sudden you think its oooOOOoooo! suspicious! once again.

Seems like you just made a halfway joking case about a joking comment I made, knowing it'd fall through, but then when someone else picked up the scent, you pretended you were serious the first time. Hmmmmm....

So when I included you in my assessment of who Reaper was attacking I included you by inference. Reaper was attacking LMP and had included you as a motivating factor to the attack. Thus I inferred he found your input scummy. He cleared this part (that he was not suspicious of you) in his response to me.

@Sawyer

– I have a question that you certainly don’t have to answer if you don’t wish to. Are you an alt perchance?

Even before reading up on that...is it a good idea to role claim that kind of thing D1 when there is no need?

Given she utilized here power in the same post where she claimed the role I don’t see any Pro-Town motivation for this to be directed at Starbuck.

And why didn’t you question Chrono for his completely unnecessary soft-claim?

I'm okay with following Starbuck's lead on this, she's next thing to confirmed town atm. Very few games would give scum a day-kill in addition to their NK.

Look it’s the WIFOM fairy here to spread the obvious to use in a generally less than useful fashion

I don't mind being called a liar, because I was fake crumbing to draw the NK.

Well this post certainly put an end to that Master Gambit, didn’t it?

In my first game when I did a similar wall of text quotes I got the same response. They later flipped scum. Jus' sayin'.

I’ll be the first to defend Walls myself but the big issue I see is the construction. Condense your quotes as much as possible. And the reaction of one scum in another game really isn’t relevant to how a different player reacts.

In the show there are Angels and I'm sure they are in this game. On the show they seem pretty rude so would they be more likly to be town or third party? Or even a second mafia?

Pointless set-up speculation that does not good until after much later.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Other folks assumed/noticed it as a soft claim. I actually didn't. I suppose if folks were used to playing and doing things like that it was obvious.

Though, if it was a soft claim then I'm not sure if everyone would have picked it up. Isn't that safer as compared?

Also, how is it anti-town for me to ask a question about something I don't understand?

What I don’t understand about this chain of events is the following.

1. Chrono soft-claims.
2. Others (GroupThink and LMP, off the top of my head) make it readily public.
3. You don’t ask Chrono the question you asked Starbuck when it was made apparent.
4. Starbuck uses a Daykill power.
5. You ask her why it was wise to claim.

It strikes me as odd you didn’t ask Chrono about it when it went public if you were very curious about whether it was a smart move to soft / normal claim.

It’s not Pro-Town to ask Starbuck the question “Even before reading up on that...is it a good idea to role claim that kind of thing D1

when there is no need

?” You didn’t ask “How does a daykill work?” You asked her whether it was wise to claim with no need (bolded for emphasis). She has to claim to use her kill. Thus the suggestion that there was no need renders the question pointless and thus not Pro-Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm going to offer my voice to say the following -

Hydrak you need to claim. I'm more than willing to hammer you so a claim to prevent a bad lynch would be appreciated.

Also - let it be known that I'm not a huge fan of GenericHydra's "Vote forthcoming" - long delay while others pile on - "Vote: Hydrak"

It screams of fence-sitting while waiting to see how others would react to Hydrak's wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We are a Cult Unrecruiter. This allows us to select an evil player as a night action and they are then made human again and are not harmed.

Our win condition is that we win when all the evil players in the game are eliminated.

If anyone wants a name claim to go with the role, we are Castiel.

Did you just claim a role that could possible convert a Mafia player to innocent??

Unless this is a purely bastardized game I am having a hard time buying that.

And I'll have to consider how much I buy Castiel for that role.

On its face I don't think that claim looks very good.

[MagnaofIllusion]

After reviewing Castiel on wikipedia I tend to concur -

UNVOTE: Tripod
VOTE: Hydrak

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, I am epic fail ... using the stupid tools.

I demand a Hunt and Unhunt tool!

Unhunt: Tripod
Hunt: Hydrak

[MagnaofIllusion]

I find it quite funny that Day 2 opens and we see an rush of Day 1 lurkers popping up to comment on game design and not discuss their almost total absence Day 1.

Until we see some flips this discussion seems rather pointless.

Hunt: TheLonging.

Nice of you to join us. You are tickling my scumdar already.

[MagnaofIllusion]

see i see what you are doing here although i apreciate it its misdirected. I'll give you a few hours and let the maths catch up to you. I we were to no lynch or not hunt today now is the only time we as a town would still be able to recover. However with the lack of flips there could be all dead townies out there or all dead power roles, or we could be really lucky and

scum had crossedkilled. however i doubt we are that lucky.

but yah if your that blood thirsty hunt away captian crusader.

Bolded for emphasis –

Scum can cross-kill? Sounds like a case of ‘Inadvertant slip of information that only scum have at this point’. If that’s the case thanks for letting us know early that we are in a multi-scum team environment.

Unhunt – TheLonging
Hunt – Tubby

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well I think I've extracted enough reaction with my pushing of the Tubby wagon that it's time to end the farce.

Unhunt Tubby.

Reaper the fact that you only get content heavy when under fire is a concern that is just not going away for me.

Hunt Reaper

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok people fun's over.

Tubby may be a fine lynch down the line but Reaper is the call for today.

Seriously there is a

VERY

good reason why he's scum.

More Reaper vote please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would like to know what (if anything) points to me being scum.

And am I right in assuming you were joking about what you said about tubby earlier with his alleged 'scum slip'? You don't think that's a scum slip any more?

It was a test Reaper ... didn't you divine that from the lack of cohesive case that usually accompanies votes from me that aren't based on information roles?

As to why you are scum it's simple and I'll just put it out there for everyone to see

You were Tracked last night to Molestargazer who quite convienantly is Waiting in the Wings.

I'd rather not pussy-foot around with you. You may begin to flail about now.

More Reaper votes people!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna.

You are aware that we have no clue who Molestargazer flip is. And that Reaper could be the night vig?

Not to mention your a lying sack of shit.

I'd vote you now, but I'm waiting to see something frist. But I will when I'm done seeing what I want to see.

Thanks for your insight.

Glad you will put another pointless vote on me.

And I'd like to see you prove that I'm a lying sack of shit as you say. But thanks for outing that you used an ability on me last night. I was kind of hoping someone would cop to that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did I say I did?

Could have fooled me.

Yeah you did. Seeing as how the ONLY reason you could have outright called me a lying sack of shit is that you thought there was no way I could have tracked Reaper.

But amend that. Either you are a stupid Town player and used an ability on me or you know your scum-buddies did. Either way thanks for the free info. In any case it has nothing to do with why I know Reaper was tracked. Thanks for playing! We can test whether you are scum after Reaper is lynched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna

Or I could just think your scum trying put up a front to frame RC.

Then you perhaps need to start really engaging your logic center when 'thinking'

Yes, it makes sense for a theoretical scum under ZERO pressure Day 2 of a Large Themed game to come out with a gambit to get a player lynched

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok... since I can see that this will get way out of hand way fast, I am going to pre-emptively claim. Yes, I targeted molestargazer last night. I am a hunter of supernatural things named Bobby Singer and I use my power to track supernatural things. My wife was possessed by a demon and I had to kill her, and from then on I dedicated my life to hunting demons down.

I am also a tracker, Magna. I tracked molestargazer because it looked like he was trying to lay low and stay off the radar yesterday. He went nowhere.

Interesting claim Reaper. I’ll have to consider what I think of it since Bobby is a prominent character. My question regarding your target is this – why didn’t you track players like LMP or Benmage who you specifically made accusations of Day 1?

P.S. I have seen scum trackers in games before, it's possible Magna is trying to just set me up because he knew there'd be nothing I could claim to get out of it.

By extension it is possible your claim to being a Tracker is true you just happen to be a scum tracker. See how that speculation thing works?

when

magna says 'rc looks more town now or w/e

, you follow him as well. you're just riding the waves and trying to get a mislynch on me.

Support for the bolded portion, please.

Since Reaper gave Flavour: MoI, if your flavour is equally (or more) believable, I will Sheep you my vote for today.

Role-fish engage!! In all seriousness I’m not claiming unless I have solid reason to. Either you will support lynching Reaper based on the Track result or you will not. I’m not giving Scum even more free information just so you will Sheep.

^Lie alert

Mole isn't dead yet. He's 'Waiting in the wings'

You do understand that ‘Waiting in the wings’ is what happens when someone is ‘killed’ but their flip is not revealed, correct? Because trying to paint someone saying Mole is Dead as a lie is incorrect and scummy.

How anyone can make any educated assumption without flips is surly smoking the weed

We are working with what we have. My question to you –

If Molestar had flipped Town what does that change about Reaper’s being tracked to Mole? If he flips Scum? If he flips Third Party?

This super-cautious ‘we don’t know anything so we can’t make any moves’ agenda you are pushing isn’t very helpful to Town.

I can't quiet quench the feeling that this was like a Scum Christmas in July.

I can’t quite shake the feeling that generic statements are active lurking fodder.

I don't get all the flip flopping. Then you come out in 617 and said you used a night action. Why did you wait so long?

The biggest problem is, if we trust you and lynch RC we won't know his alligment/role.

My vote for TheLonging was for a specific reason I’m not going to elaborate on currently. As previously stated the Tubby vote was a test to see who would wagon based solely on a weak ‘scum-slip’.

And I didn’t come out in 617 and claim I used a Night action on Reaper. I claimed he was Tracked. Those two statements are not synonymous.

If we lynch anyone by your standard we aren’t going to know their alignment and role. Are you indicating that you want to actively support No-Lynching?

Even before he claimed, there was a possibility that Reaper could have been just a Vig (most likely), Tracker, Cop, Doc, or any number of things and Ben still didn't change his vote.

Umm I know it was probably just a rambling list but how in the heck could Reaper have claimed Doc / similar style role if Mole is dead?

Even after Reaper claimed to be a Vig/Tracker, he didn't even think about removing his vote

Is it your opinion that players should be required to unvote simply based on a claim? Tracker is essentially unproveable and unchallengable when said Target is dead. We already have a proven Dayvig. Given three people died last night it is also likely that we have some other Town vig style role. How many Vigs / Limited Vigs do you think are reasonable for a game this size?

[MagnaofIllusion]

cause they were actively participating in discussion and i wanted to get some info on somebody who not much info could be gleaned about otherwise. i still dont see what gain there would be to kill him, i thought he was scum.

That’s horrible reasoning. You are approaching a Tracker as if it is a Cop. It’s a very different kind of information role. Cops are great for hitting players you are having a hard time getting a read on because you still get a result. Trackers only work when you get action from the target. Getting a no result from someone only tells you that they didn’t do anything that night. At best it might indicate they aren’t a Serial Killer. It doesn’t tell you if they are scum that didn’t make a kill or have a Night action.

Your last two sentences are a nice bit of unsupportable logic, BTW. It presupposes that you are actually aren’t scum. Which is something I’m not currently believing.

so basically... you're just saying "NO U"?

Funny, that’s actually what you did with the whole “I have seen scum Trackers” line. But why quibble

and do you or do you not think it's scummy of benmage to have a double standard regarding tubby's and GH's obstinacy?

and do you or do you not think its scummy as all h311 of benmage to contribute next-to-nothing?

and do you honestly think after coming under suspicion day 1, that AS SCUM, i would a) perform a night kill for whatever faction i was in, b) lead a lynch on tubby d2, putting myself right out in the open?

1. How does benmage have a double standard regarding Tubby and GH? He’s attacked (futilely, IMO) GH for withholding identity information. I don’t see Tubby doing that. Tubby is if anything not contributing.

2. I breezed through benmage’s ISO. If you think he his contributing nothing you are either deluded or scum grasping at straws. The list of players with less content contributed than benmage is huge. Why aren’t you attacking them for their lack of contributions?

PREVIEW EDIT - So you EBWOPed that to Tubby. Yes I think Tubby's contributions represent active lurking. He's a great Vig target IMO. That said I think you are a better lynch today based on the Track results and your responses thus far.

3. A tasty WIFOMSandwich from Reaper. Tasty but ultimately not filling.

[MagnaofIllusion]

and magna, in case you still didn't see it, which i find miraculous given your high intelligence level, benmage's double standard consisted of 1. attacking GH for withholding information from the town, but 2. not attacking tubby for refusing to scumhunt. the only reason i can see is that tubby said he'd sheep benmage off a cliff, benmage put it in his sig, and after that they were fast friends. but he kept on GH even after 3/4 of the thread had told him to drop it, and that is a double standard. and that is scummy.

What you are presenting isn’t a double standard. A double standard would be treating the actions of two players that are similar in different fashions. Benmage didn’t attack GH for not scum-hunting (which would be an accurate attack, IMO, as GH hasn’t done any significant hunting at all) while ignoring Tubby’s.

You want to make an argument that benmage is scummy for letting low to no content posters off the hook while targeting others for things not as important as lack of scum-hunting? Great. But don’t claim a fictional double-standard as scummy behaviour when it does not exist.

anyways, i see no point to posting any further. if you're gonna lynch me you're gonna lynch me. if you guys decide to lynch somebody else, have the mod throw me a pm to check back in and begin scum hunting again, because i have said about all there is to say, and i can't defend myself any more than i have already.

Throwing in the towel? I expected better of you, regardless of your alignment.

oh and if people can be revived once they're 'waiting in the wings'... then somebody please revive me. Haha

Actually if this is a valid option please bring back Starbuck.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But I still think your full of shit. In my PoV I find RC's claim more believable, then I believe anything coming from you.

Glad to know you are capable of being objective
The fact that you have no clue how Watchers and Trackers operate when forming your opinion tells me all I need to know.

He was Roleblocked.

Him correctly guessing that RC visted Mole reeks of Informed minority.

Finally you admit it. Why did it take you so long? Why did you, when I called you out on it say cute, non-commital things like “I never said I did”? Need to confer with your team about the best course of action?

I choose him because excessive Pro-Town play during D1 does not a townie make me feel you are. In fact, warning bells tingle ever so slightly. I do not think Magna is town, despite the play he's be doing, which seems to be fooling everyone cept me...so what do you know?

Ding ding ding we have a Classic Wiki Fallacy winner. I’m too Pro-Town and thus must be scum. I can’t believe the frequency with which I see this craptastic thought process. I suppose I should act more scummy and then I’d be Town

Or are you grasping at straws to try and get a probable Town PR lynched?

No that’s what you are trying, failing but trying, to do.

Please try and figure out that I am following along. I know what sawyer is trying to say, but I have strong suspicions from my flavor text that the people I RB know their being RBed by flavor PM.

Yet another failed suspicion on your part. I got nothing from farside regarding being blocked. I do know, however, that my action last night did not happen as I sent it to farside. I’m not buying for certain at this point that you actually Roleblocked me. For other reasons I suspect a Redirect of some kind is equally likely. Time will tell I suppose.

Since Midnight has continued to make his arguments that I must be scum I’m going to do a partial claim to clear the air.

I’m Dean F'ing Winchester.

My brother Sam and I drive our sweet ass 1967 Impala around the US killing all sorts of things that go bump in the night. I’ll state the obvious … I’m Town and win when every bit of evil is destroyed.

I have 3 powers, only 1 of which you are getting to know today.

1. I’m a neighbor with Sam. We have QT for both Day and Night talk.
2 & 3 – Mystery powers, one of which Midnight monkeyed with last night.

Suffice it to say Tracking isn’t one of my skills, but it is one of Sam’s. He’s the one who told me that Reaper was tracked to Molestargazer.

So congratulations Midnight. You’ve induced me to claim based on your rampantly stupid logic that I’m Too Town and that being Scum is the ONLY way I could know about Reaper’s actions. If you are Town you should go hide and the corner and pray for forgiveness. If you aren't ... thanks ... you might have made tomorrow a little easier for Town.

Luckily I have some tricks up my sleeve so for the short term my survival prognosis looks good.

This is exactly why why Reapers claim should be more likely true than not. Fakeclaiming Tracker would not automatically clear him of suspicion when he targeting someone that's dead, especially when you claim to be a tracker as well. So if he was scum, I'd say he would be much more likely to claim Vig, since that would explain why he targeted someone that's dead without being scum.

This argument reeks of WIFOM. Your line of thinking is exactly why it would be a better fake-claim than straight Vig. Especially given we have a proven Day Vig in Starbuck.

no what i am saying is that the flavour makes sense for this game, its your role its far to powerful.

For reasons stated above I think you are dead wrong on this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I really want to start a rant right here stating that my name is neither Magma nor Manga but I do get a kick out of seeing people butchering it.

I was being honest I didn't say I used an ability on him in that post now did I?

You were being evasive. You really didn’t have a Pro-Town reason to delay admitting that I was right.

I'm also finding hard to believe so many people targeted one person on the first night anyways. Sounds like a bogus turn of events that doesn't seem all that possible in the long run.

This has been mention so I’ll say again for the record – your assumption that ‘so many people’ targets one person is a classic Appeal to Statistics fallacy (ie it’s statistically unlikely so it couldn’t have happened). Also the only person who claimed to have targeted molestar is Reaper. Your handwaving away later comments about this fact is noted for the record.

Oh hey Magna. If you got a flavor pm stating you got RoleBlocked, mind paraphrasing it for me?

If you aren’t going to even read I think you should replace out.

Yet another failed suspicion on your part. I got nothing from farside regarding being blocked. I do know, however, that my action last night did not happen as I sent it to farside. I’m not buying for certain at this point that you actually Roleblocked me. For other reasons I suspect a Redirect of some kind is equally likely. Time will tell I suppose.

I love the following contradiction Midnight posts in back to back posts –

Two people too many to me. Especially on someone who neither seemed town or scum in ISO.

While I can see why RC targeted Mole, because he explained why he did, what I don't see is why Magna/dean and Sam automatically assumed that since mole ended up dead, that RC had anything to do with it.

So he first says that it’s ‘two people too many’ that targeted molestar, even thought we only know of Reaper, based on his ISO.

Then he says Reaper’s reasons make sense for targeting molestar.

Which is it? If you thought molestar wasn’t a likely target based on his ISO how can you believe Reaper’s claimed reasons for doing it? Cognitive dissonance at work.

If you can't believe Bobby Singer as a claim, then you can't believe the claim of Dean or semi claimed Sam to be true. It's not the case of one or the other. You either believe both or not at all. Decide now.~

False dichotomy. You can certainly believe that one is true and one is a fake-claim. Your insistence that people “decide now” on a false premise is scummy.

Because Mole ended up "Waiting in the wings' they assumed that that meant that RC 'killed' him.

...Do you see where I'm going with this...

To the most logical conclusion given the limited evidence at hand – that Reaper killed molestar?

REGARDING the lynch today

– Given the result I think Reaper is the most logical lynch today. That said Midnight’s play is more and more resembling the play of Scum trying too hard to “White Knight” it up for someone they know will flip Town. I’d certainly entertain lynching Midnight in Reaper’s place. I’m going to say there is probably another way of dealing with Reaper (either a Vig who doesn’t believe Reaper’s claim or a Cop) tonight.

Unhunt: Reaper
Hunt: Midnight

I will return my vote to Reaper if Midnight is not determined to be a viable lynch.

@GH re 789

: I love you are actually contributing today. Care to explain your whole “Hold for Kagestar vote” and “Vote hydrak” double bill from yesterday?

A vig like, maybe, ReaperCharlie?

I want to address this because I want to be sure I’m clear on this. You seem hung up on the portion of Reaper’s claim that is Vig based.

1. We have one proven Vig (Day Variety in Starbuck)
2. We had three kills last night. Reaper has claimed not to be one of them. Unless you are buying into a multi-Scum team plus Serial Killer set-up one of those kills is likely also a Vig.

How many Vigs do you think the game is likely to support?

Look at it this way: One of Magna or RC is lying.

Back up the truck …. say what? You allow for no scenario that allows for us both the be telling the truth?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fancy words and voting me arn't gonna make me vote RC any sooner.

I love that this is the only response you can muster to my post. I don’t personally care if you vote RC or not.

In summary – EPIC FAIL.

I didn't mean he was the one that killed Mole as a Vig. As of now, I believe Reapers claim entirely. And Ben suggested a Vig and I was referring to Reaper because he has a Vig ability.

Way to evade the point of my post.

1. Do you believe that none of the Night 1 kills are the result of a Vig?
2. How many Vigs (1 shot or otherwise) do you think is reasonable in a balanced scenario? We have 1 confirmed (Starbuck), 1 who claimed Vig but also claimed not to shoot (Reaper) and the potential for more from the kills last Night.
3. What happens if we see more Vig indications from flips or other claims?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Congrats RC. Daughters are

way too smart and too good at forementing trouble for their age

... a joy!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ani, Magna is Dean Winchester and he was in fact roleblocked. Magna said that his partner, Sam, tracked RC and thats were his info is coming from.

Let’s fact check – there is no proof I was role-blocked. I have evidence that my action was messed with but it is far from conclusive that it was simply a Role-block. Redirect / Bus-driver are also possible choices.

Additionally I’m not really enamored that you’ve spent most of the game defending other players willy-nilly and not really scum-hunting Sawyer.

Watch me get NK'd now, thanks a lot Magna. Lol

Pointless Reaper-scum style WIFOM sandwich. Thanks you are making it easier for me to believe you are scum.

I want to make sweet love to 887.

Of course you do.

Insert obligatory buddying comment here …

This stops. Now. The only scenario in which it makes sense for MS to jump all over RC would be if RC was the cult recruiter (which we don't know because of the flips see follow me here).

RC: Kill someone tonight. A lurker. Probably ani (although use your discretion) if I can't get him lynched which will be coming later on today because my god. Seriously I want four dead tomorrow.

Spyrex what in the hell are you trying to say in the first part? I’m confused as Midnight hasn’t been attacking RC at all. Clarification would be great.

So Reaper claims a kill after tonight – what does that prove? Just wanting to know as it clears up his claim not one bit. You may be confident he’s town … I’m not sold.

I'm Zachariah – Roleblocker

You do know that Zachariah isn’t a very squeaky clean character as he spends a good deal of time torturing Sam and Dean right? And that he purposely aids the forces of hell in unleashing Lucifer. Just wanting to check to make sure you knew that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok Magna, so you know flavor and MS doesn't. Yippee. I don't know any either. This proves nothing.

Yet more non-scum hunting fluff.

And there's no use trying to push my wagon there's obviously no steam because I'm obviously not scum.

If my play/claim didn't have SOME merit, I have no doubt I'd have been lynched by now. Right?

P.S. What case is there on me besides your mason buddy's tracker result?

Now that your buddies have WIFOMed it up you are feeling more confident,huh. But since you are SOOOO confident I think I’ll go back this weekend and see what I can find. Of course you know it’s much easier to make these kind of ‘bold’ statements when we have exactly one flip.

P.S – Being tracked to a corpse usually is a sign of scum, you know.

Suspicion (track results) get thrown on me by possible-tubby-co-conspirator Magna.

SIX VOTES get thrown on me magically (begun by Tubbyscum).

I love the part where you forget to leave out that you admit to taking a Night action against Mole. So you are attempting to slime me as scum for publicly outing the correct track result on you. Which you admitted to. Yes, the grand conspiracy to out the accurate results of Sam's track on you

And votes to tend to fly to the person who ADMITTED TO BEING TRACKED TO A DEAD GUY.

Though I can see how you and others don't think I'm scum hunting since I don't agree with most of the big suspects you've all had (one of which I was already proven right about).

Nice straw-man here. I never mentioned you were not scum-hunting because you didn’t agree with my suspects. I said you were not scum-hunting because you spend all your time attacking other’s cases. But please, other than their attacks on RC, illustrate how Benmage and LMP are scum? I’d really like to see an actual case and not what amounts to ‘gut’.

Spy is right about RC.

If he can prove himself with a kill, that would be optimal.

So you know RC is Town because you are scum? Thanks for the insight.

And as stated before RC claiming a kill tonight proves that he can kill. Which ONCE AGAIN proves nothing of his alignment.

This is why I asked weather angels were third party or what would they be. And with 3 nk's last night an angel group could account for the third kill. (A demon group, angel group and then a town vig.) Zachariah is an angel? At the very least MS should get a FOS.

So you are postulating that Angels are a third party / non-Town group. MS has claimed a member of that group. But instead you vote for a lurker? Scummy.

FOS- Nero.

I’d hunt you but I’m already on said Angel.

Further we'll have a handful of results and

mole not being VT

is damning in and of itself.

Did I miss where mole flipped and it wasn’t VT? Otherwise this doesn’t necessarily look good Mr. Reaper is Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Reaper re 951

– This whole post is quite frankly a load of crap. You are predicating that game situations from other games must apply in a 1 to 1 fashion when they are NOT analogous.

And your whole policy lynch statement is so scummy I don’t know where to begin. If you think that’s a valid strategy don’t be surprised if you end up on the receiving end of similar policies for your scumtastic regular style.

Unhunt Midnight
Hunt Reaper

If you don’t end up swinging today I’m going to ask Sam to just vig you tonight. Your play is not Town in my eyes. Yes, Sam can also Track and Vig. Wonder why I find your claim to be crappy?

I have to be policy lynched cause I was too good in 1 game? Really? Compare that game to this one. You claim I've done lots of scummy things this game, and in that game where I was scum that I hid it really well. So wouldn't meta dictate that I'm not scum in this case?

Oh, also, RC earlier said something about how the case on him was SOLELY because of the track. That is baloney. His attack on me D1 for saying "the town", and his attack on me today for voting anyone else but Tubby were both scummy. The case on him is CERTAINLY not just the tracking. The tracking just makes the other stuff more damning.

QFT, all the way around.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just a quick note related to what I'm reading: role doesn't imply faction. Claiming Dean, Sam, Bobby or another good main character doesn't imply the player is town.

Rather than just active lurking how about you actually take some stands on player's alignments.

[MagnaofIllusion]

AtE ("All my posts are oozing with scumminess").

You are mistaking sarcasm for AtE.

I've taken my stands. How about you actually go back and read what I posted before putting yourself as a fool?

I’ve read what little there is in your ISO. It’s not even multiple pages on Day 2. Let’s run down your ‘stands’ shall we.

ISO 0 and 1 – Catching up fluff
ISO 2 – Vote for Kage based on post 120.
ISO 3 – Vague explanation that Kage is stills scummy
ISO 4 – More catch-up fluff
ISO 5 – Calls Midnight scummy for fluff (the irony) and more catching up
ISO 6 – Announces V/LA
ISO 7 – Calls for Kage votes, continues V/LA

Well, I already gave my thoughts (albeit reduced) on another player:

MS. I am reading him as scummy. Here, have some more thoughts. Tubby is playing town as I remember him playing town, so I'll assume town for now.

I don't get the case on Reaper, and I'm finding the Nero Cain's case on Benmage not that strong (just a lot of quotes, a huge wall of text, but nothing really good.) And thus, I'm happy with Kage's lynch for now (although I wouldn't mind a wagon on MS)

Wow something quotable. Note the emphasized area. At this stage (July 13th) is reading MS as scummy and Tubby as Town. Still keeps Kage vote.

ISO 9 – Says votes are not only form of pressure.
ISO 10 – V/LA due to life difficulties.
ISO 11 – Correction to someone regarding her opinion on Kage and corrects people for abbreviating her SB.
ISO 12 – Votes hydrak for slip. Questions why ani is scummy for lack of activity.
ISO 13 – Speculates that 3 Night deaths are Scum, SK and Vig.

And lastly we have 14, where you actually produce some comment. Quotes that show actual opinions on player alignment –

Uh, nice slip finding.

About Chrono millerness and whatnot, I rather leave that for latter. I rather lynch slipped scum than policy scummy. I'm still hot happy with KageLord being still alive, but well, it's a shame I only have one vote. D:

Hunt: tubby

Yeah, it's only normal for tubby to play like this, but that doesn't mean we should ignore everything for his meta. More often than not, tubby can survive using this lame excuse. Hope this time the slipped scum won't get too far.

So now the meta on Tubby isn’t applicable. And at this point Kagelord isn’t alive, but waiting in the wings.

@Magna: I am not quite getting the Reaper's love. Is it something I am missing, or it is just his reaction under pressure? EDIT: Oh, the tracking result. We aren't sure of what happened last night. For now I'll keep note of that.

What good will keeping ‘note of it’ for later? Will Molestar’s potential flip give you any more information about what happened? Either you believe he was tracked to a kill or you don’t … the flip should have little bearing since Reaper already said he ‘tracked’ molestar.

don't like this post at all. Why should you believe Magna's info right away? Not only that, why does this make you think he's the cause of the dead? What makes you think Mole is town? Too much buddying here and info assumption for my own taste. HFOS: LMP

I’m assuming the HOS indicates that you think LMP is scummy, and apparently it’s for finding a track of Reaper to a dead player voteworthy when he ALREADY SUSPECTED REAPER.

Reaper's claim, at least from a flavour point of view, it's believable, at least for me. I'm more intrigued in the pressure on him, specially if it's based on info on a quite dark night.

Your ability to ignore ALL OTHER POINTS MADE and dismiss the case against Reaper based on spurious assumptions (that only flips can tell you if the track is valid) is noted.

That’s your entire ISO before our exchange. Let’s summarize your ‘stances’ on players alignments.

Kage is suspicious for a post and his followup.
Tubby is first Town for his playstyle, but then what may or may not be a slip is enough to reverse that opinion.
Hydrak is suspicious for a similar slip.
Midnight is scummy for his playstyle, but never a FOS or vote goes his way.
LMP is scummy for believing a track result on Reaper indicates he killed molestar, regardless of whether he had any other suspicions.

So you have opinions on exactly 5 players. One flip-flopped on a single point that’s questionable. Two of the players are dead or Waiting in the Wings. One you’ve stated, never acted on, and ignored Day 2.

So IMO you haven’t contributed sufficient stances on players. Your reasoning is superficial and lacks logic. You ignore the bulk of the thread and cherry-pick quotes to suit you.

Please don’t accuse me of looking like a fool when your play is this bad.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm seriously at a loss for words. In the end game, when RC is known scum, I'm going to feel really vindicated. (Granted I'll feel like a fool if he's town, but w/e). Any way you look at it, RC is clearly not getting lynched today.

No worries ... as I said earlier I've asked Sam to take care of Reaper tonight.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not a lot of time today so just let me say three things -

1. A huge thanks to whoever brought me back.
2. Benmage is Sam so anyone who claimed Mason with me ( I don't recall seeing it but have simply been scanning the thread) is a dirty liar.
3. Regarding ReaperCharlie - I f'n told you so!!!

Also -

Hunt: Sawyer

.

Your constant defense of Cult-scum Reaper is noted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: Now that MS flipped town, do you still find Saywer top scum?

Also RC flipped Cult. Nice.

I would think that my Hunt for Sawyer would make that plain. Here’s where my head is at –

Sawyer has been standing up for multiple players. One flipped Town and one flipped Cult. I can see scum motivations for this sort of behaviour but not any Town ones.

He’s either Cult (and defending his partner Reaper) or he’s some other Scum wanting Town cred for defending what he thought was multiple non-Scum players. In either case he’s not looking too good in my eyes.

And how in the hell can RC flipping cult be a good thing? That pretty much cements that we mislynched the hell out of Hydrak Night 1. My only hope is that as a claimed angel he might be brought back (since he is still Waiting in the Wings).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because a cult member is DOWN, preferably we should go for the cult leader.

And I'm telling you, flips + reviver have some connection.

You have reason to not think Sawyer could be the Leader if he is cult?

And I agree that there are some mechanics going on with the flips and revives. You bring me a theory I can hang my hat on and I'll go with it. I've currently got nothing.

For the sake of disclosure for those who haven't come back I got a PM from Farside right before the thread opened that said, paraphrased,

'blah blah blah, it's dark, blah blah blah, you see a faint light, blah blah blah, you go into it thinking it to be Heaven, blah blah blah welcome back"

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vig could have potentially hit Benmage.

But nah I don't think those guys are scum tbh

I'd say absolutely no scum Waiting in the Wings -

We have hydrak who pretty much has been proven by Reaper's flip and Benmage, who I know is Sam.

So no, unless Farside pulled a fast one with me regarding Sam I doubt there are scum Waiting in the Wings.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why do I have to be an antitown role in this situation? Why do I have to be scum to defend multiple non-scum players? Why can't I be town who believed his claim (since that's the only "defense" I portrayed)? Not to mention how buddying (if that's what you want to call it) is one of the most classic scumtells, who in the right mind would openly defend a scumbuddy/cultbuddy that much?

Poor little old me … why can’t I be an innocent who doesn’t scum-hunt but instead spends all his time defending players based on poor reasoning? [/off sarcasm]

Seriously this is the best you can do? That buddying is a classic scum-tell, so by buddying two different players you couldn’t possibly be scum? I’m full from all the crappy WIFOM Sandwiches that Reaper’s scummy ass was serving. I don’t need yours also.

I was more than a little hesitant at the speed of this but jmj, no shenanigans: sawyer caused your death?

And the last time you were worried about how quick Reaper’s wagon came together how did derailing that work out for you?

Yes, I died after I attempted to hide behind him.

Bazinga / Boom goes the Dynamite.

Goodbye Sawyer – it’s not been all that nice knowing you this game.

You can't FoS based on the fact that I believed his claim. Town defends town, town defends scum, scum defends scum, scum defends town.

Actually he and everyone else can. Your play has been pretty scumtastic.

Attention Town –

I classify the following people all completely useless lurkers. Some amount of scum has got to be hiding in here. I’ve handily classified the worst at the top. Any Vigs still out here? Look here.

Ythan
Kmd4390
Lowell
GroupThink
Snow_Bunny
GenericHydra
Chronopie

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: Examples, besides me believing RC's claim? The fact that I was V/LA for 3/4 of D1 and lost interest until N1 shouldn't count, but if you want it to go ahead

TRANSLATION - My crappy play shouldn't count against me because I wasn't here and was bored. Don't be unfair!!!

Words fail me ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

... So you think that means it was me that killed you? Well, you keep believing that and ignore any thoughts of other possible roles.

If farside follows Natural Action Resolution there is practically nothing that can interfere with a Hider. If that’s the case the fact that you didn’t die but JMJ did means your statement here is pointless. That’s of course if NAR is in effect and jmj isn’t lying.
But given your scummy play I’m inclined to believe him.

Nice avoiding the question. So I'm gonna guessing it's just because you like to tunnel then. Like you did to RC.

And you missed the whole point of the response. There’s no real Town motivation for sitting around defending two players as opposed to scum-hunting. Anything that you have done that is remotely close to scum-hunting revolves around your belief in the Innocence (via claim or play) and attacking those who don’t. You’ve overplayed the ‘White Knight’ card and it has come back to haunt your.

I do like to Tunnel when I’ve found scum. Just like I did with RC. The fact that you are bringing up my attack on RC, who flipped CULT, as a negative point is hilarious.

Oh wow, I didn't even think of that. He was probably recruited after all that suspicion was put on him.

So the Cult decided to recruit him after he had been pushed to claim the day before and was Public Enemy #1 if he didn’t Vig satisfactorily or molestar flipped Town. Right.

Hmm... If you ever decide to lynch a lurker for any reason whatsoever, please lynch me. At least there's some chance my lynch will help town. I'm not advocating my lynch, just saying that it may not be that bad for town (though, I'm not sure yet.)

We know it will be good from the standpoint that you are an active lurker who provides no content, and is that a liability if you are Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The yang to you guys is that as long as I am alive, people would have to keep on being unflipped until I flip them (I believe tonight or tomorrow night is when everyone waiting in the wings can be flipped/revived). I obviously can't revive anyone else when I'm dead. farside stated in my role PM though that I can not be NIGHTKILLED, just not killed in general, so I'm thinking there's a dayvig based on the wording.

Um there was ... Starbuck. Are you really not paying that close attention. That said I doubt the Starbuck would have been able to Vig God.

I guess I should say thanks for the revive. So Thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's a role ability and roleblockers block role abilities.

As stated, not under Natural Action Resolution. It's in the wiki. You know, the thing you love to tell people to read.

There is no way to know what situation we are under and I doubt Farside is going to come out and tell us.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For someone who loves to use the term "not pro town", I would think you'd use it correctly. Me believing RC's claim is what made everyone suspicious of me. So, I've just had "not pro town" play.

Bzzt … wrong. It’s not just the fact that you believed RC’s claim. You called several of those who didn’t believe him as potential scum for believing the track result (which of course we know was correct)/ And you defended Kage. And your scum-hunting isn’t active hunting just attacking those who make cases on others. And now to top it off JMJ’s claimed you directly scum based on his Hide result Night 1. What wait, wouldn’t it be bad not to believe his claim? That’s the standard you seem to champion.

That's false.

No, it’s true. We can do this all day. Unless you can provide a solid Town motivation for the play that I’ve repeatedly mentioned just stating ‘wrong’ is sad.

No, you like to tunnel when you think you've found scum. You know how you got RC lynched? Because you choose to believe the situation that would incriminate him, rather than the one that would mean he's innocent (without hesitation as well). You got lucky, really.

HAHAHAH. Do you think Sam and I didn’t have good reason to track Reaper Night 1? Seriously? Read my ISO Day 1 again. Reaper was so on the radar it wasn’t funny. The only serious discussion Benmage and I had was whether to track or vig him.

But I appreciate the whining that we “got lucky”. Keep believing that and we can talk post game once your flip comes to light.

Glad you agree.

We agree if you think the statement that he was converted after Day 2 was incredibly stupid. If you don’t think that you missed the sarcasm inherent in the eye-roll.

Do you have me confused with someone else or are you just full of shit?

The comment is historical as opposed to this game, but no I am not full of shit. Don’t make me dig up direct quotes from you from Weeds Mafia.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I said Benmage and LMP could have likely been scum. Benmage was tunneling harder than I thought possible and was scumhunting with his eyes closed. He has no excuse and quite frankly was playing horribly. That's just 2 people. That's hardly several of the ones who didn't believe. So what if I defended Kage? He was town, so that doesn't help what you're getting at. I never said I don't believe jmj's claim, but obviously a roleblocker or some other role was at work.

You do know that Benmage was so aggressive against Reaper because HE WAS THE ONE WHO ACTUALLY TRACKED HIM TO THE KILL, right? Calling his play horrible when it was aggressively trying to lynch a Cult member is just plain bad.

The fact that you keep dodging the actual point regarding your defence of others is noted. Fact – a Town player who is not a Cop or Mason / Neighbor has no reason to instinctively defend others like you have. You’ve defended both Town and Cult. All things being equal it looks much more like Mafia trying to gain Town-points and having it backfire than crappy Town play in my eyes.

You got lucky regardless of my flip.

Wah wah wah wah. I like that you’ve pretty much owned up to the fact that your flip will reflect badly on you.

Don't backtrack, you already agreed.

Insert Epic Facepalm pic here …

Unless someone has something else they think is important to discuss someone should feel free to hammer Scumyer here and put him out of his misery. It's not like the lurkers are likely to burst into activity at this point.

Mod: VLA until next Tuesday.

Glad to know your lack of contribution and scum-hunting will be due to V/LA as opposed to just poor play.

@TheLonging

- I would suggest resurrecting both Benmage and hydrak if possible tonight. I know Ben is Town and given that

1. Both dead angels have flipped Town.
2. Reaper’s flip indicates that a Cult Unrecruiter would be a great asset

I think hydrak is worth a res also. I’d also suggest that you flip lynched players ASAP if you feel they are scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It may take a day longer, but if you guys are so bent on the idea that me defending RC means I'm his cult buddy, why not just revive Hydrak tonight and have him try to unrecruit me tomorrow night? Since that would mean your ideal lynch for today would take longer (and be proven incorrect), I'm sure no one will go for it, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway.

Since no-one is asserting that you MUST be Cult this isn’t a very good plan. You certainly could just as easily be Scum. In general anyone saying ‘Just hold off one more day then lynch me if X,Y or Z” is scum in my experience. Nice effort though.

He had the same information as us, so that's no excuse.

He did have the same information as everyone else. Just because you foolishly chose to accept Reaper’s lies doesn’t make those who don’t scummy in their aggressive pursuit of lynching a non-Town player.

I guess you don't know what the word "regardless" means.

Sure I don’t. . Your time to face the noose is drawing ever closer scum … continue to throw insults if it keeps your obviously fragile ego intact.

Also not to found of this KMD guy but he's a reach.

No, he’s really not. He’s spent his entire time ‘catching-up’. Why, perchance, didn’t he catch up over Night? Also his asking for permission to hammer Reaper is scummy as it’s a direct attempt to abdicate his responsibility if things turned out badly. He said just above he hadn’t even finished catching-up when he did hammer. It didn't come up since Reaper flipped Cult.

In other news, I'm still willing to hammer. I'll wait until we're done with the day.

Toss that ========[] anytime you like.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Smash bras, "only several" means through 40 now? Since when? I use "several" to mean "a lot".

So you are still have not caught up with the thread enough to post even the smallest crumb of content?

SSBF I remember you being better than this. What is different in this game I wonder.

Look at me I’m active-lurking!!!

It just seems like the same people keep pushing for the same quick-lynch scenario and we've not discussed whether TheLonging's abilities could align with a different character in the show.

And yet you don’t attack these ‘same’ people and don’t put forth theories about TheLonging. Complaining about how the game is going while doing nothing to change that fact is scummy.

Really? i was under the impression that must be what they thought since the only reason for my lynch is believing the claim.

And yet the reasons I’ve laid out for you MUTIPLE times clearly say why you may certainly be Mafia and not Cult. Great ‘Bury my Head in the Sand’ technique you have going.

It doesn't when they go about it the way he did. He never even considered RC's claim, he was just in a blind tunnel based on indecisive evidence.

Pro-Tip – Being tracked to a killed player means more often than not that the player was the killer.

It's not an insult. Your response implied that you don't know what it means. That's fine, I don't know the meaning of every word either.

HAHAHAHAHAH. Seriously, go play with your friends at your school who think this sort of comment actually ‘stings’.

I didn't see much point in voting either of them today, because well... look at the votecount It wouldn't have done much.

The classic scum mindset. You voting and pushing for their lynch might give them some Town credibility when you flip scum.

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 4pm EDT until Monday morning for regular weekend family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

True. If only Ben acted that way rather than acting like that's what it always meant.

If you agree with my assessment why do you call the tracking evidence indecisive. It might make sense to call in not fool-proof but if the majority of the time it is relavant I don’t see your statement as logical.

If you think I'm mafia scum, then how would that give them town credibility? Why can't they be cult?

Once again you are making assumptions unwarranted. Town cred in this case means a greatly reduced chance (WIFOM considerations aside) that they are not the same alignment as you, be it Cult or Mafia. So when we are sifting through the multiple faction interactions for links it would make assessing them and their play easier for Town.

Nice of you once again to not attack the original statement (that it’s a scum mindset) but to play theoretical footsies.

LMP

– Hunt away.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Would someone

not currently voting for Sawyer

actually come in and hammer.

It's a tired gambit and I doubt with the lack of immediate flips we will benefit from Sawyer 'falling' for it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Congratulations on you victory Mafia.

Overall I enjoyed the game. I found the flip mechanics frustrating as they IMO penalize Town too greatly once Longing outed himself and could be Role-blocked.

I will say on the concept of being able to be busdriven to kill yourself.

Too many lurkers / low content providers among Town .. it let the scum blend in nicely with them.
I also suspected that Benmage was some sort of scum when we weren't alignment confirmed at the outset to each other. His play was very Pro-Town but Sam's flavor game me a little reservation.


Once again you've made an interesting game farside. Congrats.